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Speaker 1: My name is Charlie kirk I run the largest pro

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Speaker 1: American student organization in the country, fighting for the future

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Speaker 1: of our republic. My call is to fight evil and

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Speaker 1: to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you

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Speaker 1: is just feeling good, you're gonna end up miserable. But

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Speaker 1: if the most important thing is doing good, you'll end

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Speaker 1: up purposeful.

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Speaker 2: College is a scam, everybody.

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Speaker 1: You got to stop sending your kids to college. You

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Speaker 1: should get married as young as possible and have as

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Speaker 1: many kids as possible.

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Speaker 3: Go start at turning point.

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Speaker 1: You would say college chapter. Go start at turning point,

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Speaker 1: yould say high school chapter. Go find out how your

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Speaker 1: church can get involved. Sign up and become an activist.

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Speaker 2: I gave my.

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Speaker 1: Life to the Lord in fifth grade, most important decision

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Speaker 1: I ever made in my life, and I encourage you

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Speaker 1: to do the same. Here I am Lord, Use me.

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Speaker 1: Buckle up, everybody, Here we go. Noble Gold Investments is

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Speaker 1: the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirkshaw, a company

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Speaker 1: that specializes in gold iras and physical delivery of precious metals.

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Speaker 1: Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble Gold

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Speaker 1: Investments at noblegold investments dot Com. That is Noblegoldinvestments dot Com.

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Speaker 4: All Right, everybody, welcome to our special edition preliminary Hearing

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Speaker 4: recap that we're going to be doing every day to

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Speaker 4: break down what happened in the preliminary hearing of Utah

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Speaker 4: State of Utah versus Tyler Robinson. And we've got myself

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Speaker 4: Blake Nef here, and now we have Joe Bob, which

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Speaker 4: is fantastic. Joe Bob, welcome there you are. And we've

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Speaker 4: also got Joe Bob does amazing work for us. It's

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Speaker 4: got a great show. Amazing Joe Bob. Just for the audience,

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Speaker 4: you've been on the show before, but just in case

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Speaker 4: people don't realize, you've been with Turning Point for years.

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Speaker 4: You open for Charlie, you traveled with Charlie at all

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Speaker 4: the camp events, and you do a great show on

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Speaker 4: Real America's Voice. So God bless you man, thank you

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Speaker 4: for joining us today. It's been a heavy day and

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Speaker 4: I think that's where I'm just going to quickly start.

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Speaker 4: I have a whole breakdown of all the facts, and

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Speaker 4: we have Graham Allen joining us, and then we have

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Speaker 4: Andrea Burkhart who's a legal commentator. She's going to join

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Speaker 4: us for the second half of the hour. So but

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Speaker 4: I just want to start there. I can't stress to

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Speaker 4: you enough of how much this today has affected me,

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Speaker 4: has affected Joe, Bob Blake, everybody in this office, everybody

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Speaker 4: at turning points.

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Speaker 2: So it's so.

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Speaker 4: Excruciating actually to have to be reliving all of this

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Speaker 4: and to have it like up front and in our

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Speaker 4: faces again. So Joe Bob, maybe just tell what it's

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Speaker 4: like for you, my friend.

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Speaker 5: You know, I actually appreciate you starting it off like

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Speaker 5: that because coming into this, this is uncharted territory for everybody, Like,

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Speaker 5: I don't know, are we supposed to break it down own,

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Speaker 5: like you know, these super sophisticated legal minds that of

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Speaker 5: course we all are, or are we supposed to be

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Speaker 5: vulnerable about the fact that this was a tough day.

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Speaker 5: I was walking around the house earlier this morning and

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Speaker 5: my wife's like, hey, it's something wrong, and it's like, yeah,

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Speaker 5: there is. And it just was one of those days

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Speaker 5: where she could tell something was wrong, but it wasn't,

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Speaker 5: you know, it was just this sinking feeling that you had.

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Speaker 5: And I was there last week at HQ and we're

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Speaker 5: talking with some people around there about what this was

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Speaker 5: going to be and same sinking feeling when I you know,

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Speaker 5: kind of realized the gravity of Erica and Charlie's parents

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Speaker 5: being in the room and what they were going to

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Speaker 5: have to see during this whole process. That is of

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Speaker 5: course necessary to get justice, but the very fact that

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Speaker 5: you have to endure it is doesn't make it better,

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Speaker 5: doesn't make it good. It's still terrible. And so you know,

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Speaker 5: while there's the kind of the progression of this, the

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Speaker 5: proceeding of all of this is encouraging in the quest

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Speaker 5: for justice. Again, I'm glad you started off like it

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Speaker 5: because it is a sinking like heavy feeling.

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Speaker 4: Is it's been around, Hey, it's so heavy, Yeah, and

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Speaker 4: he's sinking in just this was a heavy day.

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Speaker 6: But with the knowledge this is day one of a

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Speaker 6: preliminary hearing that we talked to various people. They said

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Speaker 6: they think it'll go at least three days. It could

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Speaker 6: go all five and then that's the preliminary hearing. We'll

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Speaker 6: talk to Andrew again and see what she thinks.

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Speaker 2: But she says the.

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Speaker 6: Trial might not hit until twenty twenty eight, and then

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Speaker 6: who knows how long that will go, and we might

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Speaker 6: have to sit through appeals for this, this is. We

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Speaker 6: were getting a lot of well wishes.

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Speaker 2: I know you were.

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Speaker 6: I was, and what I was telling everyone, telling people

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Speaker 6: who emailed is this is. It's going to be a

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Speaker 6: long process, and we are here to see it through

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Speaker 6: all the way to the end.

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Speaker 4: Let's get into this. I just want to it's a

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Speaker 4: brief primer. Keep it on all three of us so we.

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Speaker 2: Can all chime in intermittently as we go through.

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Speaker 4: I'm just gonna go through a couple facts, since this

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Speaker 4: is day one, I just want to reiterate. So Erica

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Speaker 4: was in court today. She was seated next to Charlie's

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Speaker 4: father Rob and his mother Kathy Catherine, I call her Katherine.

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Speaker 2: They sat together.

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Speaker 4: They did enter through different entrances for security purposes, but

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Speaker 4: inside they sat together, and all the news reporting that

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Speaker 4: I've read is that they were comforting each other, crying

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Speaker 4: on each each other's shoulders. There was also Erica's sister,

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Speaker 4: Erica's niece and nephew, representing the full extended family on

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Speaker 4: both sides, including many relatives that couldn't be there, but

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Speaker 4: they're there in spirit with them. Don Junior was there,

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Speaker 4: obviously a close friend of Charlie's. His wife Bettina, you

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Speaker 4: also had Jack Pasobic, Brandon Tatum, and Graham Allen, Who's

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Speaker 4: gonna be joining us in just a second. But to reiterate,

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Speaker 4: this was the This is day one of the preliminary hearing,

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Speaker 4: not the trial. As Blake said, there's no jury. The

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Speaker 4: purpose is for the state to present enough evidence to

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Speaker 4: the judge Tony Graff to meet the probable cause threshold,

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Speaker 4: and if that threshold is met, then it will go

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Speaker 4: to a trial.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 4: So during the hearing you see the state call witnesses

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Speaker 4: and the defense may cross examine them. And then we

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Speaker 4: saw that today the defense may also call witnesses and

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Speaker 4: the state may cross examine them too, and there's a

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Speaker 4: lot of you'll hear a lot of mention a hearsay. Well,

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Speaker 4: the evidence governing a preliminary hearing is different in this

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Speaker 4: case than a trial, right, so the standard of proof

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Speaker 4: is lower. The purpose is you can you can admit

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Speaker 4: what they call credible hearsay.

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Speaker 2: Okay. Blake's not a lawyer, but he does play one

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Speaker 2: from time to time on TV. Do you do you

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Speaker 2: have any like it's just terrifying.

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Speaker 6: That there's usually in a normal criminal trial, you have

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Speaker 6: the right to confront your accuser, and so along established

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Speaker 6: principle in our legal system. I don't know about those

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Speaker 6: around the world, but certainly in ours is you generally

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Speaker 6: can't go, oh, this office, you know, a police officer

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Speaker 6: will say this person told me that, and in reality

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Speaker 6: you could bring that person in and instead you just

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Speaker 6: have this secondary hearsay. You can't have someone testify that

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Speaker 6: they heard something from someone all that guy's denying it

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Speaker 6: and say, well, we just believe this officer is telling

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Speaker 6: the truth. And so the example here where it's coming up,

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Speaker 6: for example, is they asked one of the second witness

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Speaker 6: today what was in the medical examiner's report, and he's

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Speaker 6: just saying, well, I saw this in the medical examiner's report.

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Speaker 2: And that's a.

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Speaker 6: Credible hearsay in the sense this is a police officer

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Speaker 6: who's describing a document that he read while they were

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Speaker 6: preparing this case. In the actual trial, we will be

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Speaker 6: having the actual medical examiner as a witness, who will

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Speaker 6: say I performed this autopsy, this is what I found.

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Speaker 6: They can be cross examined, but for the case of

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Speaker 6: for this sort of probable cause thing, it's totally acceptable

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Speaker 6: for them to have a police officer say we have

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Speaker 6: this and we generally trust this person unless there's an

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Speaker 6: obvious reason, right.

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Speaker 4: And Judge Graph has been very disciplined. He's sort of

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Speaker 4: balls and strikes kind of guy. I think he's very

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Speaker 4: cognizant of the fact that he doesn't want to make

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Speaker 4: a misstep that could make it appealable or whatever.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: The defense has fought very hard to prevent cameras in

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Speaker 4: the courtroom. Okay, they previously filed a standing objection to

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Speaker 4: the state's preliminary hearing exhibits. Today they stated additional objections

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Speaker 4: as each exhibit was introduced, and that was one of

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Speaker 4: the big storylines today. Every single exhibit they would object to.

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Speaker 4: So that's why we saw a whole lot of I

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Speaker 4: would say theater trial theater from the defense today regarding

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Speaker 4: those objections. The judgement very straightforward, balls and strikes, like

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Speaker 4: I said, And it seems like the defense's strategy has

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Speaker 4: been to blur the focus. Right, They're delaying, They want

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Speaker 4: to kind of slow things down, which is not surprising

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Speaker 4: given everything that we've seen from this far. But you know,

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Speaker 4: at least that's my view, right, that this blurring of

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Speaker 4: the focus so they can't lay out the details and

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Speaker 4: so as you as a watcher and Joe Bob, I'd

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Speaker 4: be curious your perspective just watching this preliminary hearing, trying

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Speaker 4: to sort of keep track of the details is difficult

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Speaker 4: because it's it's bogged down in so much procedural back

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Speaker 4: and forth.

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Speaker 5: So last week on the turning point tonight's show, we

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Speaker 5: broke down to the best of my ability. Right, I'm

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Speaker 5: not an attorney, but the procedural process kind of like

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Speaker 5: what Blake had laid out, kind of what you guys

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Speaker 5: have been talking about on the show pretty consistently, in

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Speaker 5: that there are different procedural rules for the pre trial

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Speaker 5: in the actual trial hearsay can be admitted all of

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Speaker 5: these things. The defense seemed to be trying to add

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Speaker 5: there or had the actual trial to the pre trial, right,

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Speaker 5: they tried to have all of the rights of the

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Speaker 5: defendant that exist in the trial to the pre trial

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Speaker 5: with just the constant objections over and over and over again.

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Speaker 5: And I hope my terminology is correct there, but that's

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Speaker 5: how I understood it. But what I think was really interesting.

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Speaker 5: And I recognize people don't have, you know, the full

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Speaker 5: day to sit here and watch this, but I would

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Speaker 5: encourage people to watch a big chunk of it if

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Speaker 5: they can, because what I saw as an observer was

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Speaker 5: prudence and discernment from the judge every single thing he

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Speaker 5: took it in, considered, decided whether or not it was

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Speaker 5: gonna get played for the courtroom and for the media,

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Speaker 5: decided if that was you know, good or bad or

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Speaker 5: or uh, you know, obviously evidence admissible and in admissible.

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Speaker 5: And you really got to see the process of thought

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Speaker 5: that goes into it. It's not just that this haphazard,

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Speaker 5: and again I don't know why people would assume that

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Speaker 5: it would be, but it was really good to see

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Speaker 5: that reiteration of discernment on the bench to go, here's

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Speaker 5: what we're considering, here's all the process is laid out.

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Speaker 5: And again, as more or less a lay person when

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Speaker 5: it comes to the lead system, it.

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Speaker 3: Was good to see that through throughout the entire day.

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Speaker 4: Really, Hillsdale College Great Books one oh one Ancient to

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Speaker 4: Medieval course is an absolute game changer. I'm taking it

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Speaker 4: right now and you gotta check it out. So before

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Speaker 4: Charlie ever stepped into a debate stage or behind a microphone,

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Speaker 4: he understood something important. If you want to lead, you

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Speaker 4: have to first learn. Charlie believed that ideas shaped character

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Speaker 4: and conviction and courage, and that's why he spent so

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Speaker 4: many years studying the classics, the American founding in the Bible,

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Speaker 4: and he did a lot of that through Hillsdale College's

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Speaker 4: free online courses. These are real college courses taught by

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Speaker 4: actual Hillsdale professors. They're amazing, the best academics in the country.

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Speaker 4: One of those courses, like I just said, is Great

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Speaker 4: Books one oh one Ancient to Medieval, where you'll study

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Speaker 4: foundational authors like Homer, Augustine, Dante, Chaucer, writers who shape

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Speaker 4: Western civilization and they still speak to the deepest questions

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Speaker 4: about our human nature and courage and family and government.

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Speaker 4: The course includes Homer's Iliad and Odyssey, the epic stories

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Speaker 4: of Achilles and Odysseus that have influenced the West for

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Speaker 4: thousands of years. And this summer, Hillsdale College is releasing

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Speaker 4: a brand new course dedicated entirely to Homer's Odyssey. Great

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Speaker 4: Books one oh one is the perfect way to prepare

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Speaker 4: before the full Odyssey course launches in July. Charlie understood

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Speaker 4: that learning isn't just about gaining knowledge, it's about forming

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Speaker 4: the mind and character needed to face the challenges of

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Speaker 4: life with wisdom and courage. So you can enroll today

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Speaker 4: completely free. Visit Charlie for Hillsdale dot com to start

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Speaker 4: learning today. That's Charlie for Hillsdale dot com. Charlie for

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Speaker 4: Hillsdale dot com. Learn deeply, Think clearly, lead boldly, carry

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Speaker 4: it forward. I'm told that we now have Graham Graham again,

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Speaker 4: Graham Allen. He's we're gonna be letting him in. Graham

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Speaker 4: was actually in the courtroom all day. So I'm gonna

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Speaker 4: while the studio gets Graham uh checked in here, I'm

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Speaker 4: gonna keep going with some of the breakdown. We prepared

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Speaker 4: a point by print point breakdown, just keeping notes all day.

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Speaker 4: So so all in all, the state is going to

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Speaker 4: call four witnesses and admit forty to fifty exhibits. I

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Speaker 4: believe we do have the images of the exhibits. If

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Speaker 4: we get to throw those up, those are pieces of evidence.

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Speaker 4: They called two of those witnesses today and admitted about

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Speaker 4: a dozen exhibits. So the big, big, big takeaways, and

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Speaker 4: then I'm just going to stop here with the big takeaways,

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Speaker 4: and then I'm gonna bring Graham in is I think. First,

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Speaker 4: Agent Hall testified that Robinson was seen on UVU surveillance

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Speaker 4: video on campus a total of four times, four times

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Speaker 4: on September tenth, before, during, and then after the shooting.

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Speaker 4: That and so that was a big one four times.

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Speaker 4: Now we're going to get into the video issues. I

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Speaker 4: think we'll talk about that with Andrea. The internet's I

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Speaker 4: think tempted to run away with that one, but there's

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Speaker 4: nothing so. And then also that the medical examiner's report

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Speaker 4: listed Charlie's cause of death as homis by gunshot wound

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Speaker 4: to the neck. So no exploding MIC, none of that stuff.

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Speaker 4: The medical the straight medical examiners report says gunshot wound

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Speaker 4: to the neck, all right, And then the other big takeaways.

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Speaker 4: Officer Bagley confirmed that the roof of you you've used

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Speaker 4: loc Center was accessible by a public stairway and testified

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Speaker 4: that he climbed to the rooftop immediately after the shooting.

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Speaker 4: There he saw a red and black screwdriver and a

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Speaker 4: disturbance in the gravel, which he described as markings consistent

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Speaker 4: with someone lying in the prone position with a line

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Speaker 4: of sight to where Charlie was speaking. So I think

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Speaker 4: those from just an evidence standpoint.

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Speaker 2: Those were the big takeaways. Graham. Allen joins us.

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Speaker 4: Now, Graham, so grateful to have you, man, and from

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Speaker 4: the bottom of my heart, thank you for being in

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Speaker 4: that courtroom and supporting Erica and her family, rob and Kathy.

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Speaker 4: I I couldn't do it. If I'm just gonna be honest,

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Speaker 4: I think I would have. I don't know how I

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Speaker 4: would have reacted. And what was it like?

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Speaker 7: Well, weird day.

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Speaker 8: Tyler Robinson was maybe six seven feet in front of

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Speaker 8: me the entire day. You know, I've seen a lot

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Speaker 8: of people recirculating and you know, an old clip on

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Speaker 8: the Internet of him laughing and things like that. What

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Speaker 8: I can confirm what I did see that all of

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Speaker 8: us saw that was on that front row, especially is

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Speaker 8: Tyler Robinson was very very active in wanting to see evidence.

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Speaker 8: But when he would speak to I saw the back

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Speaker 8: of his head when he would speak to his lawyer,

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Speaker 8: I can see his lawyer's side profile and she was

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Speaker 8: giggling and she was laughing, and so that that was

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Speaker 8: hard to see, uh, in the courtroom. A couple of

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Speaker 8: things I can put to bed all this crap about

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Speaker 8: Erica and Charlie's parents not being on the same page

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Speaker 8: or they don't like each other. It was complete garbage.

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Speaker 8: I was on the same row. It was it was Erica,

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Speaker 8: Charlie's parents. Uh, it was Jack Pisobic, me, Don Junior,

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Speaker 8: all in the front row the entire time.

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Speaker 7: Uh.

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Speaker 8: When when we all got went on recess and we're

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Speaker 8: in the holding room, Erica's was with Charlie's parents the

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Speaker 8: entire time. Charlie's parents were speaking to all of us,

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Speaker 8: and they were talking to all of us.

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Speaker 7: So all this garbage.

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Speaker 8: That Erica and the the wife of Charlie Kirk and

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Speaker 8: his parents, that they are not on the same page

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Speaker 8: with each other, that's that's total total lunacy, total garbage.

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Speaker 8: I've also seen a couple of things again that you know,

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Speaker 8: they took her phones from us, So I'm catching up

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Speaker 8: to what the internet is saying. I would encourage everybody

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Speaker 8: to watch as much of the trial as they can,

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Speaker 8: because what a lot of bad actors are doing is

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Speaker 8: they're taking clips of them introducing one piece of evidence,

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Speaker 8: for example, the gravel at the top of the building

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Speaker 8: where the shot was taken. There's this there's one picture

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Speaker 8: that they put into evidence and they're like, it's kind

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Speaker 8: of hard to see the impressions that you saw that day,

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Speaker 8: is it not? And the officer says, yes, it's kind

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Speaker 8: of hard to see the impressions I saw. Well, people

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Speaker 8: were just clipping that and they're like, oh, this is

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Speaker 8: a this is a clown show, like like, oh, just

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Speaker 8: trust me, bro all this. But then the very next

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Speaker 8: piece of evidence that they introduce isn't even better picture

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Speaker 8: showing obvious indentations of a grown male that was in

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Speaker 8: a prone position to take a sniper style shot with

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Speaker 8: a rifle.

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Speaker 7: Like So, I encourage as.

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Speaker 8: Many people as possible to watch as much of the

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Speaker 8: trial as they can. I would also say that if

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Speaker 8: you're watching this and you're on a side that that believes,

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Speaker 8: and I said this on my show today, this is

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Speaker 8: about getting justice for Charlie. But if you're on this

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Speaker 8: friend's side, that's all about these conspiracies and things, it

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Speaker 8: appears to be the defense that doesn't want any evidence

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Speaker 8: sit same by anyone in any way.

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Speaker 7: Shape, form, or fashion. It seems to be the defense

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Speaker 7: that is against.

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Speaker 8: Anything being admitted as evidence, being shown as evidence, all

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Speaker 8: of those things.

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Speaker 7: And so that was that was pretty shocking to me.

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Speaker 7: I expect any.

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Speaker 4: That's you can't you can't underscore that point enough though,

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Speaker 4: Graham is that I saw the same thing on social

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Speaker 4: media where people were like, Oh, they don't want to

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Speaker 4: show any evidence, and it's like, that's the defense. The

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Speaker 4: defense is the one pushing not to show evidence. The

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Speaker 4: state has been consistent like we want cameras, we want

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Speaker 4: to show all the evidence, and every time the defense

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Speaker 4: is coming with an objection about it can't be on

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Speaker 4: that monitor or it can't be published, which I guess

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Speaker 4: means visible in the courthouse because it hasn't been submitted.

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Speaker 4: As ever, they're finding technicalities to sort of limit the

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Speaker 4: public or exposure of set ed And.

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Speaker 6: It just should be said, you know who, someone was

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Speaker 6: saying that today was the start of a show trial,

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Speaker 6: and the real truth is everything about today has indicated

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Speaker 6: this is one of the most methodical criminal justice proceedings

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Speaker 6: any of us have ever seen. It took us ten

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Speaker 6: months to get to this point of a preliminary hearing,

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Speaker 6: something that has waived in a very large number of

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Speaker 6: murder trials, something that happens within a handful of days

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Speaker 6: in plenty of other not just robberies, but murders. Big

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Speaker 6: cases like this one here. They've taken ages to get here.

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Speaker 6: They have litigated every single point about evidence, about cameras,

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Speaker 6: about timing, about representation, and they will continue.

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Speaker 2: To do so.

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Speaker 6: And I think it was very telling that other than

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Speaker 6: those claims, for a lot of these people, they weren't

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Speaker 6: even engaged today. They were picking other fights.

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Speaker 4: Well, and I had a somebody who's not connected with

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Speaker 4: Turning Point and not connected like at all with the trial,

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Speaker 4: but he was just watching. He sent me a text

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Speaker 4: he said the defensive here set objections were legally ridiculous

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Speaker 4: and summarily overruled by Judge Graft. The court was fully

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Speaker 4: briefed on the matter in advance of the hearings and ruled.

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Speaker 4: But the defense continues to raise this objection anyway. So

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Speaker 4: that was something that's like a third part, completely unrelated.

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Speaker 4: But this is a guy that's a prosecutor, and that

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Speaker 4: he was just like filling me in and I thought, okay,

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Speaker 4: that's interesting.

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Speaker 2: And you were definitely go ahead, go ahead, no, no, no, please.

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Speaker 7: Well, there were definitely conversations about that.

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Speaker 8: How long is the judge going to allow you know, uh,

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Speaker 8: you know Code eleven oh two, section twelve to be

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Speaker 8: you know, repeated over and over in folks.

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Speaker 2: To block the publishing of evidence. Yeah.

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Speaker 8: Correct, And there were a couple of you know, prior

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Speaker 8: defense attorneys in there that that you know, we were

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Speaker 8: able to have not in the court obviously when we

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Speaker 8: were you know, in recess or whatnot, you know that

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Speaker 8: would say that that's you know, it's it's not a

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Speaker 8: good sign.

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Speaker 7: You know.

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Speaker 8: Obviously everyone's innocent until proven guilty. Obviously that's the way

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Speaker 8: our court system is done. But it's never a good

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Speaker 8: sign when the defense is just stalling like that over

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Speaker 8: and over.

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Speaker 7: If I can talk about the video, if you would

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Speaker 7: call it any type of uh, you know, small bump

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Speaker 7: in the road, I want to put away any type

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Speaker 7: of things, because we were also briefed on this as well.

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Speaker 8: Uh, the video is not dead that they wanted to

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Speaker 8: submit into evidence that the judge said, well, you know,

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Speaker 8: it's been enhanced or whatever it is, like zoomed in

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Speaker 8: or circled around.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to get to actually Graham, Graham watch this. Uh.

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Speaker 4: So we have this clip and just it helps to

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Speaker 4: kind of bring some of this home. This is the

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Speaker 4: this is the clip.

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Speaker 2: So this is uh.

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Speaker 4: When Judge Graf rejects the admittance of the state's compilation

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Speaker 4: of videos. Now again we're we're referencing when the state

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Speaker 4: presented uh was I think questioning the witness and they

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Speaker 4: said four times, and they had a compilation where they

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Speaker 4: put together those four videos.

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Speaker 2: This is that clip.

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Speaker 9: This is a compilation video that was put together from

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Speaker 9: all bunch of different sources by the County Attorney's office.

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Speaker 9: This individual did not create this compilation, can't testify to

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Speaker 9: the accuracy of the actual materials that it was taken from.

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Speaker 9: And furthermore, mister Olsen himself is just referred to by

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Speaker 9: Agent Hall. He specifically says people have altered these recordings.

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Speaker 9: They've zoomed in when the when the actual recording isn't zoomed.

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Speaker 9: They've added little circles to people they wanted you to

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Speaker 9: pay attention to you. They've blurred people's faces out. So,

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Speaker 9: I mean, it's been clearly altered and it's not I mean,

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Speaker 9: they admit it's been altered. So we have real concern

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Speaker 9: about authenticity of it.

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Speaker 7: I'm sustaining the objection, all.

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Speaker 4: Right, So Graham go ahead, And now now that the

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Speaker 4: audience all caught up.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, so so what the judge actually like said okay

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Speaker 8: too in that was not this grand slam dunk, like,

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Speaker 8: oh the you know the the state didn't get their evidence.

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Speaker 8: That's not what's happening. Well, the judge what he did

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00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 8: in that was he didn't have from the person on

438
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 8: the state side who actually zoomed in in certain areas

439
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 8: or put red circles around to make it more easy

440
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 8: what you were seeing.

441
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 7: It's kind of like telling John Madden back.

442
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,959
Speaker 8: In the day that he he manipulated the footage that

443
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 8: he's replaying showing.

444
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 4: That's a perfect that's a perfect analogy that this. So

445
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 4: it wasn't altered. It wasn't like AI. What they did

446
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,360
Speaker 4: is they to They used a John Madden style exactly

447
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 4: right where you know you he'd freeze frame the NFL

448
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 4: clip and he'd circle like, look what the ball's doing here,

449
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 4: and it's gonna shoot this way, and watch they're gonna

450
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,440
Speaker 4: move this way. So they were trying to spotlight different

451
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 4: things they wanted to draw attention to correct and the

452
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 4: the video will be resubmitted as evidence. The only question

453
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 4: is and it will make it into evidence. It's only

454
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 4: a matter of question of in what form will it be?

455
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 4: The raw original form or will they because they're gonna

456
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 4: resubmit this, this video as evidence when the court's back

457
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 4: in session tomorrow morning. However, we just don't know what

458
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 4: the judge is gonna rule if it has to be

459
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,679
Speaker 4: the rob either way, the evidence is what the evidence

460
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,880
Speaker 4: is that they saw him four times on campus.

461
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 7: Correct.

462
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 8: From my understanding is it was someone inside the state,

463
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 8: you know, the prosecutions team that did it, but they

464
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 8: just didn't have a signed I think they called it

465
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 8: eleven oh two or something like that.

466
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:49,160
Speaker 7: Yes, I did it.

467
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 2: I I edited this.

468
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,919
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah I didn't. I didn't you know, editor or

469
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 7: redact anything.

470
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,239
Speaker 8: Sure, So from my understanding, the plan is they are

471
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:06,199
Speaker 8: going to submit both. They're gonna submit the un you know,

472
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 8: unenhanced version along with the version they wanted to yesterday.

473
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 8: And from the way it sounded with the judge, he's

474
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:14,640
Speaker 8: gonna watch both.

475
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 7: Of them then at that point.

476
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 8: But you're right, it's going to be submitted tomorrow tomorrow

477
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 8: officially in as evidence.

478
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 4: Independence Day is the perfect time to talk about something

479
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480
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486
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488
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Speaker 4: All Familypharmacy dot com slash Kirk before July seventh, Joe, Bob,

489
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:03,400
Speaker 4: you have something you want to talk.

490
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 5: So one of the big social media clips that moving

491
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 5: I don't know is the right word, but got a

492
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 5: lot of attention was Judge Graft watching the explicit video

493
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 5: and his reaction, which in probably is way more tame

494
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 5: than most people would react.

495
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 3: One were you in the courtroom for that? And two?

496
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 3: What can you describe what that was like?

497
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 7: Watching that?

498
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:32,640
Speaker 3: Those videos?

499
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:34,640
Speaker 4: And we have that clip here, Graham, if you want

500
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 4: me to show it. I mean, it's got the muse

501
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 4: it's the same one you posted Graham on x so

502
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:59,679
Speaker 4: it's got music bead to it. But fifty six, yeah, yeah, wild,

503
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 4: it really was.

504
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 7: I was there.

505
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 8: We all were there, and so every one of the

506
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 8: videos that were graphic in nature were were were admitted

507
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 8: as evidence, but both the state and the defense did

508
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,959
Speaker 8: not want it to be seen publicly, uh, due to

509
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 8: the graphic nature of it, because we've all well, the

510
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 8: vast majority of people saw the the horrific social media

511
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 8: you know, iPhone images of what happened to Charlie.

512
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 7: But but especially when the uh you know, the.

513
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:47,160
Speaker 8: Four K videos were were were put in there, that

514
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 8: was Yeah, that that was a tough moment.

515
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 7: That that was a really tough moment. YEA.

516
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 4: To be clear, though, Graham, these were the videos that

517
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 4: were rolling like of the event.

518
00:27:59,400 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 2: These are events.

519
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,360
Speaker 4: These are the four K cameras that were around Charlie

520
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 4: and that were submitted that were handed over to authorities

521
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 4: the moments after it happened, I guess. And so they've

522
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 4: never been publicly viewed.

523
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 8: Correct, Yes, And so you know, those of us that

524
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 8: were in the rows, I mean, you know, the audio

525
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 8: is playing and we all know exactly when when it happened. So,

526
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 8: I mean, you know, we've all heard the moment the

527
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 8: question Charlie was asked and his beginning to answer, and

528
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 8: so you know I looked around, you know, kind of

529
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 8: my left and my right, and everybody kind of had

530
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 8: their hand kind of clinched because we all knew exactly

531
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 8: when the moment happened.

532
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 7: But but on that video specifically, I was looking right.

533
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 8: At the judge when that happened, and so yeah, it was, Yeah,

534
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 8: I mean, it's tough, it's tough to look at, and.

535
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 7: So his reaction is a real reaction.

536
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 4: You mentioned you were looking around to people to your

537
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 4: left and your right. Who did I know that Erica

538
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 4: and her family got the opportunity to leave during the Yeah,

539
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 4: I guess demonstration of certain exhibits. Were they able to

540
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 4: leave during that or were they still there? Because the

541
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 4: judge was just like, how did that work?

542
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 8: Yeah, So, so so they briefed us on that when

543
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 8: we were in a recess that because but obviously Erica

544
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 8: and Charlie's Charlie's family, they did not they did.

545
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 7: Not want to see.

546
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 8: That, and so so we knew that they were going

547
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 8: to let us know when that moment was going to happen.

548
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 8: And so yes, excuse me, Charlie. Goodness, Erica and Charlie's

549
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 8: family left, and so the only people left on the

550
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 8: very front row was Jack Besovic was on my left

551
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 8: and Don Junior and his wife were on my right,

552
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 8: and that's all that was left on the front row

553
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 8: when Erica and and Charlie's family left, and then Brandon

554
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 8: Tatum and others were behind us on the next row.

555
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 8: So yes, they did get an opportunity to leave, but

556
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 8: but it was kind of a known lead because they

557
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 8: they didn't they didn't want to see that, nor nor

558
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 8: nor should they have to.

559
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 4: Know, and even even just being able to hear it correct, right, Yeah, I,

560
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 4: like I said, I'm just so glad you were in there.

561
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 6: Something I didn't see people talking about. And I wonder

562
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 6: if you saw it. Did you see people outside the

563
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 6: courthouse maybe either protesters people trolling them, you know, making

564
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 6: it trying to make fun of it the way we

565
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 6: saw at our women's event, or even maybe fringe YouTube.

566
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's it? What's it like in the vicinity?

567
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 7: Yeah?

568
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 8: So, so where they have us all entering in at

569
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 8: it's it's pretty it's pretty locked down that there is

570
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 8: a little bit of what looks like a parking structure

571
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 8: up on top, and you have some news crews that

572
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 8: are like, you know, pointing down and things like that.

573
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 8: It was mainly just media when we were walking in.

574
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 8: I mean, there's there's a lot of videos on the

575
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 8: internet of us walking in to the courtroom and things

576
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 8: like that. I didn't see any protesters per se.

577
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 7: In that exact moment.

578
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 8: There were some people that were trying to get Don

579
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 8: Junior like to to comment and things, and he respectfully said, no,

580
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 8: I'm here for I'm here to support a friend. I'm

581
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 8: not I'm not doing any on the record stuff and

582
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 8: things like that, which I thought was very classy of him.

583
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 8: You know, He's simply there for Charlie and for Erica,

584
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 8: and so I thought that that was a really big thing,

585
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 8: because it's not easy to sit in that courtroom all day.

586
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 7: And listen and and just the mundane of all of it.

587
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 7: You know.

588
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 8: There was another moment where that I saw some people

589
00:31:54,920 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 8: chattering about online where you know, Charlie's either air Erica

590
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 8: and Charlie's parents for Charlie's parents got up abruptly and

591
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 8: left or something like that.

592
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 7: From what I understand, Charlie's mom got a nosebleed.

593
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 8: You know, it's dry weather here. I don't think it

594
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 8: was anything serious, and she was fine the rest of

595
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 8: the day. Like I said, Charlie's parents were great. They

596
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 8: were talking to all of us in the recess rooms,

597
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 8: with Erica right there. And so again when I see

598
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 8: all these things, and again I was playing catch up

599
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 8: with my phone. It's just it shows shocking how many

600
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 8: people have no idea what they're talking about.

601
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 4: Well, and that's that's been my whole experience of the

602
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 4: last ten months.

603
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 2: Graham, is you know, it's like totally out of.

604
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 4: The disconnect between real life and like where the internet

605
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 4: will go for it. That's one of the reasons we're

606
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 4: doing this daily recap because I want people to have

607
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 4: somewhere where they can just get the actual facts from

608
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 4: the case. Graham and Joe Bob, I want to work

609
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 4: you in here too. And then we've got Andrea Burkhart.

610
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 4: She's actually standing by already, which is great. But Graham,

611
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 4: what about Tyler Robinson's family? Did you see them and

612
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 4: did you know which ones they were?

613
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 8: Kind of I didn't know who they were initially, but

614
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 8: they were pointed out to me.

615
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 7: So the way that we were.

616
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 8: Lined up is it's not it's not like the courtroom

617
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 8: like you see on TV, you know, like where there's

618
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 8: like two distinct sides and there's like this side and

619
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 8: then that side.

620
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 7: It was four rows.

621
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 8: Horizontal to the actual courtroom that most people saw, you

622
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 8: know from the camera position.

623
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 7: So the front row, like I said, was.

624
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 8: Erica and Charlie's family, and then it was Jack Pisobac me,

625
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 8: Don Junior and his wife. The next row station Sheridan

626
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 8: was in there, Brandon Tatum, several other people were on

627
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 8: the back row, and then the I believe Tyler Robinson's

628
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 8: family was on the third row. And then that fourth

629
00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 8: row was for just some random public peace people that

630
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 8: got you know, a seat in there.

631
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 2: Apparent how many people are we talking about, Graham, I.

632
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 7: Think that were viewing it or in total, like.

633
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 2: Just like how many people were guests in that courtroom?

634
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 2: I'm just curious.

635
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:21,240
Speaker 7: Oh, I guess maybe maybe forty, maybe fifty people when.

636
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 8: It was one yeah, yeah, and that's including the media,

637
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,399
Speaker 8: and the media was sitting where normally the jury would sit.

638
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:31,359
Speaker 7: I would imagine, got it, Graham?

639
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,399
Speaker 5: Could you get a feel for what the media might

640
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 5: have been talking about, chattering about prepared to put out

641
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 5: Was there any sense of that did you get or

642
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 5: did you not really interact with the media that was

643
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:43,919
Speaker 5: there too much?

644
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 8: You guys know me, I'm not a big fan of

645
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 8: the media, so so so I didn't I didn't have

646
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 8: it on my radar to to like talk to them specifically.

647
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 7: I did note that.

648
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 8: A lot of them were looking our direction a lot

649
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 8: of the time. It seemed like maybe that was towards

650
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 8: Erica or Charlie's parents, maybe that was towards Tyler Robinson's parents.

651
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 7: I don't know, but but I did.

652
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 8: But I did note that they were looking our direction

653
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 8: an awful lot.

654
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 4: Graham final thoughts here, We're please any any final you know,

655
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 4: things that you noticed or want to make sure that

656
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 4: we hear from you. And then we're going to take

657
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 4: a quick two minute reset break and bring Andrea Burkhart

658
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 4: in next. So, Graham, any final thoughts.

659
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 8: Just just continue to pray for Erica, for Charlie's parents,

660
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:39,399
Speaker 8: for for for the family. This is day one, right,

661
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 8: and so so it's just getting started. Forensics and all

662
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 8: that stuff haven't even been introduced. I mean, I mean,

663
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,280
Speaker 8: there's so much more to do. Just continue to pray.

664
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 8: And then I said this on the show this morning,

665
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 8: when all this is said and done and and justice

666
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 8: has been served and all this my biggest hope, prayer

667
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 8: is that Charlie's legacy is what you know, is the

668
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 8: life he lived and not how he died. Is my

669
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 8: biggest hope and everything, And so we just want the

670
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:14,839
Speaker 8: truth and this is actually how you get it and

671
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,280
Speaker 8: how you actually get actual justice.

672
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Sunlight's the best disinfectant. We want full transparency.

673
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 4: We want everything to be visible and viewable for the

674
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 4: I mean, not the graphics stuff.

675
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 2: Candidly, I don't know. I mean, I don't think.

676
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 4: Anybody needs to see Charlie being you know, in four K.

677
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 4: I don't I don't need to see that. But either way, Graham,

678
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 4: I just want to finish with this and say thank

679
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 4: you again. Means a lot to us on a very

680
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 4: personal level, right like everybody's you know, you got your

681
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 4: show and we got ours and influencer blah blah blah

682
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 4: all that stuff. Now, like on a on a very

683
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,839
Speaker 4: personal level, it means the world to us that you

684
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 4: were in there supporting Erica and Rob and Kathy and

685
00:36:58,760 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 4: the whole family.

686
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 7: So thank you, man, least I could do.

687
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 4: Angel Studios has a new feature film that is a

688
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689
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690
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691
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:21,600
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692
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693
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694
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695
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696
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697
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698
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699
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700
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701
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702
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703
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704
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705
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706
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707
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708
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709
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710
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711
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712
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713
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716
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720
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721
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722
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723
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724
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726
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727
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728
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729
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 4: America for our nation's two hundred and fiftieth birthday. We

730
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 4: have Andrea Burkhart Legal commentator. She's a trial and appellate litigator.

731
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 4: You can find her at Substack Andrea Burkhart dot substack

732
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 4: dot com. Andrea, welcome and thank you for making the

733
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 4: time you've been covering this trout. Really you've been a

734
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:33,879
Speaker 4: source of information for me too. You have a way

735
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 4: of looking at things and insight because you've done this before.

736
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 4: Big picture, what do you make of this? And then

737
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 4: I want to get in of day one, and then

738
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 4: I want to get into what we can expect tomorrow

739
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 4: morning and coming up next based on the exhibit list

740
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 4: that has been made public.

741
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 10: Yeah, so so far, there's nothing that's happened that has

742
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 10: struck me as particularly surprising. Every jurisdiction has their own

743
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,359
Speaker 10: rules and their own ways of doing things, and so

744
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 10: there can be a lot of variation in kind of

745
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 10: the specifics of how things happen, but by and large

746
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 10: just in terms of what's being presented, how they're presenting it,

747
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 10: the volume and nature of the objections that we're getting

748
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 10: from the defense as well. These are all things that,

749
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:21,400
Speaker 10: to my view, as somebody who's handled these in similar

750
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 10: kind of hearings before, appears to be going largely according

751
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 10: to script, consistent with the expectations that the parties would

752
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 10: have had for how a hearing like this is expected

753
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 10: to go.

754
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,359
Speaker 4: I think the big question that a lot of people have,

755
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 4: and Blake and I were debating it, and we're talking

756
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 4: to some other people trying to figure out why. I

757
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 4: think I texted you about it and I think it's

758
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 4: you had a great answer, so I want you to

759
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 4: share it.

760
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 2: Here.

761
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:52,399
Speaker 4: Why is the defense basically trying to object to every

762
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:53,240
Speaker 4: single exhibit?

763
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 2: Right? What is the tactic here? What is there anything

764
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:57,879
Speaker 2: to read into it? Well?

765
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 10: I think that is it is normal as always in

766
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 10: a death penalty case. You you just do expect to

767
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 10: see a little bit more vigorous of a defense than

768
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 10: you you might in cases that don't have quite as

769
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 10: much at stake. That said, it's always a bit of

770
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 10: a strategy call, and maybe to some extent a style

771
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 10: issue as well, how attorneys to decide to manage things

772
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 10: like like objections in a case. What we saw today

773
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 10: was just repeated objections. There's there's already a standing objection

774
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 10: on the record that was filed in writing, but the

775
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 10: defense is taking the opportunity to reiterate that objection, explain

776
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 10: it multiple times, and so it can perhaps come across

777
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 10: as a bit repetitive to be hearing.

778
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 4: The same Yeah, but can't that eventually sort of backfire

779
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 4: if you start frustrating the judge, if you start sort

780
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,280
Speaker 4: of just become well, coming off like obstructionists.

781
00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 10: It can, I mean, that is the trade off. It

782
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 10: is a style choice to be aggressive like that that

783
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 10: can be off putting. The risk is that if you

784
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:09,839
Speaker 10: simply flood the judge's attention with everything possible that you

785
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 10: could raise as an objection, then you run the risk

786
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 10: that when there's something really good and really really strong,

787
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 10: it's going to be lost in the fog of everything

788
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 10: that you've already thrown at him, and he's not going

789
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,320
Speaker 10: to realize you know, oh this time, you know they

790
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 10: really mean it and there's really something substantive here. So

791
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 10: it is a little bit of a risky play. But

792
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 10: just given their position and the fact that they do

793
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 10: have an obligation to make the best record they can

794
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 10: looking down the road and anticipating future appeals in future

795
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,800
Speaker 10: post conviction processes, to make sure that they're not waiving

796
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 10: any possible objection that he could make at any point

797
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 10: of this process. That's going to be a big driving

798
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 10: factor for why they are behaving the.

799
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 11: Way they are.

800
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 4: Really fascinating, and I do think it's interesting, especially if

801
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 4: they try that strategy in a trial, which I know

802
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 4: you warned us could be as late as twenty twenty eight,

803
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 4: which I'm still smarting from to be perfectly honest, But

804
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 4: if they try that in a jury trial, I can

805
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 4: imagine that would be very frustrating for a jury, That

806
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 4: would be very frustrating for the entire legal process, probably

807
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 4: Judge Graf. So that's I think that's important to kind

808
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:24,799
Speaker 4: of keep in mind. So we mentioned this in the

809
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 4: first part of the hour, and I want to ask

810
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 4: you this one question. Then we'll get into the exhibit

811
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:30,720
Speaker 4: list and what we can expect next.

812
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 2: The I think the.

813
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 4: Big bombshell today, if there was one I certainly took note,

814
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,280
Speaker 4: is that they the status claiming that they have evidence

815
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 4: of him of Tyler Robinson being on campus four times

816
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 4: the day of September tenth, two times in the morning,

817
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 4: one time during the actual shooting, and then one time

818
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 4: in the wee hours of the night that even bled

819
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 4: into September eleventh. But then there was this controversy about

820
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 4: the video and Judge actually did sustain that objection because

821
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 4: the video has been alter or please explain how you

822
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 4: perceive that. I know that the evidence is going to

823
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 4: be resubmitted tomorrow morning. They're going to submit apparently both

824
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 4: the raw and the edited. It's not AI edit, is

825
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:14,959
Speaker 4: not enhanced, it's not changed. They just John Madden style

826
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 4: zoomed in, drew circles around certain things to draw your

827
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:19,319
Speaker 4: attention to what they wanted you to pay attention to.

828
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 2: But what, how did you perceive that?

829
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 12: Well?

830
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 10: I perceived a lot of this is a little bit

831
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 10: of a feeling out by everybody to get a sense

832
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 10: of what the parties are going to try, what types

833
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 10: of limits rules they're going to try to impose, and

834
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 10: then what the judge's tolerances is going to be within

835
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 10: that within that playing ground. So what the prosecution was

836
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 10: trying to do is really not unusual. It's trying to

837
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 10: prepare and exhibit in a way that maximizes its helpfulness.

838
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 10: It's very common, particularly with things like video evidence, that

839
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 10: there's a lot of dead time and you don't necessarily

840
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 10: want to watch the whole thing.

841
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 11: It's waste, wasteful.

842
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,359
Speaker 2: And yeah, and you're not even sure where your eye

843
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 2: is supposed to be looking.

844
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 4: Sometimes if it's grainy or whatever, those little aids can help,

845
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 4: like be like, hey, look here, because this is where

846
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 4: the suspect walks through the frame.

847
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 2: You know.

848
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,839
Speaker 4: That to me makes a lot of sense. But they're

849
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 4: saying it adds bias or something. Is that their argument?

850
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 10: Oh no, The only the sole issue that came up

851
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 10: really with this is that because they didn't have the

852
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 10: person who actually prepared those edits available to testify or

853
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 10: submit a statement that explains what they did and exactly

854
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 10: what the alterations were, that they weren't sufficiently authenticated for

855
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 10: purposes of admission in court. They are basically resolving that

856
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 10: problem by as you said, their intention is now to

857
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:48,240
Speaker 10: just present the unedited compilation of the different video clips

858
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 10: that they collected, and so then they'll be able to

859
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 10: show the judge that and that will enable him to

860
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 10: then see when he looks at the edited version what

861
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 10: exactly they did to revise it and to draw to

862
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 10: his attention, so there won't be any confusion about what

863
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 10: was the raw video and what was added by somebody

864
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 10: for editorial purposes.

865
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 4: Okay, now that makes a lot of sense. Okay, so

866
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 4: I want to Yeah, Okay, so we do have that clip,

867
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 4: all right. Fifty four Just to underscore your point here,

868
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 4: Andrea stop fifty four.

869
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:24,360
Speaker 12: We're going to resume with mister Hall tomorrow morning morning.

870
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 12: And let me explain to and I was going to

871
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:28,800
Speaker 12: explain this, but let me explain why to. Our intent

872
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 12: is to prepare an original version of the video that

873
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 12: has been in dispute today, without the circles, without the blur,

874
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 12: and without the zooming in. And our intent is to

875
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 12: introduce that tomorrow is a different exhibit, and we just

876
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 12: can't prepare that in the next hour or so for today,

877
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 12: Agent Hole, you may step down and we'll resume with

878
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 12: your testimony tomorrow morning.

879
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 2: All right.

880
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 4: So that just just to sort of bring it home,

881
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 4: I want to take our attention to the exhibit list

882
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 4: that's been made public. And if I'm reading this right,

883
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 4: so we've got four witnesses that they're planning to bring up.

884
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 4: The first two we've now met, we're halfway through with

885
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 4: the first. With the second, it seems like we're about

886
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 4: to enter the phase of the preliminary hearing where we

887
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 4: start getting into forensic, when we start getting into DNA,

888
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 4: and probably maybe we might see that video from Lance Twiggs,

889
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 4: who's Tyler Robinson's lover. So am I reading that writer?

890
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 4: Do you think that the defense is slowing things down

891
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 4: to the extent that we're not going to get that

892
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 4: far tomorrow where.

893
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 11: I expect we're going to go.

894
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 10: It appears to me that the state is telling basically

895
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 10: a chronological story. They're putting this in order in terms

896
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 10: of the timeline. If that's correct, then we won't probably

897
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:52,879
Speaker 10: get the forensics until close to the end, and what

898
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 10: we would instead get is leading into the process of

899
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 10: we've started the identification of Tyler Robinson as the suspect,

900
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 10: We've introduced the topic of his surrender, but we haven't

901
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 10: tied those pieces together. How Tyler Robinson became known to

902
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 10: the police, how he came to be in custody, how

903
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,360
Speaker 10: some of these pieces of evidence were obtained, you know,

904
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 10: how they were able to get Tyler's DNA in order

905
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:20,359
Speaker 10: to do this comparison in the first place. Those are

906
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 10: all going to follow on the story of the identification,

907
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 10: the surrender, and then the arrest and taking into custody

908
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 10: seizure of additional evidence.

909
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 4: Hi, folks, Andrew Colvett here, I'd like to tell you

910
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,399
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911
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:41,439
Speaker 4: hearing me talk about why Refi for some time.

912
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 1: Now.

913
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:45,239
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914
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:47,960
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915
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,920
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916
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,480
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917
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,360
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918
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:00,600
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919
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920
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,440
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921
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,279
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922
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 4: student after student who's drowning in private student loan debt.

923
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 4: Many of them don't even know how much they owe.

924
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 4: Y Refi can help.

925
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 2: Just go to.

926
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 4: Wyrefi dot com. That's the letter why then refi dot com.

927
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 4: And remember y Refi doesn't care what your credit score is.

928
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 4: Just go to yrefi dot com and tell them your

929
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 4: friend Andrews sent you. I think it's just looking at

930
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 4: this it's Exhibit sixteen is the recorded statement from Lance Twiggs, which,

931
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 4: if you remember, there was that back and forth whether

932
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:44,839
Speaker 4: or not he was gonna be subpoena to come in.

933
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 4: The judge that he did not need to be subpoena

934
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 4: that the video would suffe But if you're if you're

935
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 4: talking chronological order, then we probably would get sixteen.

936
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 2: It's right.

937
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:57,720
Speaker 4: I mean, I would think maybe that could be tomorrow.

938
00:49:57,760 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 4: But that really makes sense to me what you said.

939
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 6: Well, they seem to a fall this significantly through chronological order,

940
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 6: almost of practically the order they got the information in,

941
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 6: because they started with you're at the scene, these are

942
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 6: videos that we obtained at the scene, and then here's

943
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 6: the video we obtained from UVU and then eventually.

944
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 4: Maybe that's actually an interesting wrinkle there when you say

945
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 4: chronological order, Andrew, do you mean the order by which

946
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 4: they got the at the evidence and the or is

947
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 4: it the as the events took place that day and

948
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 4: the eleventh and so so forth.

949
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:33,360
Speaker 10: Yeah, No, I think that's that's a good, good correction

950
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 10: by by Blake. That's a very good point. It's the

951
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 10: story of the investigation, because that's really what the probable

952
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:43,280
Speaker 10: cause hearing is focused on is did the investigation produce

953
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 10: a reasonable suspicion to believe that that this person likely

954
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:50,360
Speaker 10: committed this crime? And so the story of the investigation

955
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 10: is kind of a common way to frame that particular

956
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 10: issue for the court to understand what police learned, when

957
00:50:57,080 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 10: they learned it, how it fit into their investigation, and

958
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 10: then from that, what are the reasonable reasonable inferences that

959
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 10: you can draw at each step along the way. So,

960
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,800
Speaker 10: because this is kind of a check on the police

961
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:12,359
Speaker 10: and the prosecutor's reasoning in how they conducted the investigation,

962
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:17,319
Speaker 10: the chronological story of how they conducted that investigation just

963
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 10: tends to be an easy way to follow that.

964
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 6: We asked Jay town this earlier, but I wonder if

965
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:26,239
Speaker 6: you're going to give the same answer as him. I

966
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 6: just asked, So we have the statement, this interview they

967
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 6: did with Twigs, it's videotaped, They're going to obviously introduce it.

968
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 3: Is it likely you.

969
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 6: Think that we will hear the whole thing played for

970
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 6: us tomorrow? Will they merely maybe show a screenshot of

971
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 6: it that it exists, introduce a transcript? How much are

972
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 6: we likely to get of new information because right now

973
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 6: we essentially only have that this recording exists.

974
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 11: Well, that's the million dollar question.

975
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:57,239
Speaker 10: If I were going to, you know, go to the

976
00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 10: prediction markets on this one, just based on what we've

977
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 10: seen from Judge graph so far, I would expect that

978
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:06,359
Speaker 10: we are going to at least hear it, possibly see

979
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:06,920
Speaker 10: it as well.

980
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 11: But the reason I.

981
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 10: Say that is because while he has certainly shielded some

982
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,319
Speaker 10: of the exhibits from public view so far, those have

983
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:21,319
Speaker 10: largely been grounded in concerns about the dignity of the

984
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,359
Speaker 10: victim and just kind of the common sense there are

985
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 10: certain things that don't need to be on TV, blasted

986
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 10: everywhere for everybody to see for all eternity.

987
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:33,880
Speaker 11: This is not that.

988
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 10: That said, the defense is going to have extremely strong

989
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 10: objections to this. They're going to argue this is highly

990
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 10: prejudicial to the defense. It's the kind of thing that

991
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 10: is going to people are going to form opinions of

992
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 10: guilt based off of it, and so because of the

993
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,840
Speaker 10: potential to prejudice the jury pool, it should not be

994
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:53,840
Speaker 10: made public.

995
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 11: So far, that argument has had really only limited success

996
00:52:58,640 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 11: with Judge Graf.

997
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 10: His view has been that Number one, there are other

998
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 10: mechanisms that exist to deal with pre trial publicity. We

999
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:10,439
Speaker 10: call in large jury pools, We do big jury questionnaires,

1000
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:13,480
Speaker 10: we do a lot of individual questioning and things like

1001
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:17,399
Speaker 10: that to root out people that have either two firm

1002
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:19,840
Speaker 10: opinions about the case or just know too much about

1003
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 10: it and can't put that aside. But also because you

1004
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:25,800
Speaker 10: know this is I guess the upside of the trial

1005
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:29,239
Speaker 10: potentially being so so far down the road is that

1006
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 10: the prejud prejudice has time to mitigate. You know, It's

1007
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 10: not like we're having this hearing and then we're going

1008
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 10: to go have trial tomorrow, So everything that happened is

1009
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:39,279
Speaker 10: going to be fresh in everybody's mind. There's a lot

1010
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 10: of time for new information, for memories to fade and

1011
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:47,399
Speaker 10: things like that. So if I were going to predict it,

1012
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 10: I would predict that we are going to be able.

1013
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 11: To see that one. And that's certainly the outcome I'm

1014
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 11: hoping for.

1015
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:56,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, So the way this works just to bring everybody

1016
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,319
Speaker 4: back into sort of a procedural mind set.

1017
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 2: The state goes first.

1018
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 4: They've allotted five days for this, but this could and

1019
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 4: by it's like four and a half because Wednesday is

1020
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 4: scheduled to be a half day. So if you're just

1021
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 4: looking at how much progress we're making, do you see

1022
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:16,399
Speaker 4: the state going up until taking up all that time

1023
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 4: until Wednesday, and then the defense taking Thursday Friday, or

1024
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 4: are you getting a read of how this is going

1025
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 4: to work, because again, the state presents the defense is

1026
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:28,839
Speaker 4: going to cross examine, then the defense gets to call

1027
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 4: their witnesses, and the State will cross examined. So I

1028
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 4: just want to make sure everybody's still tracking with us

1029
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,760
Speaker 4: on the actual TikTok here thoughts.

1030
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think that's probably in about the ballpark that

1031
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:43,879
Speaker 10: I would expect the State to be done at this rate,

1032
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:47,439
Speaker 10: probably by the end of Wednesday or maybe part way

1033
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 10: into the day on Thursday, just depends on some of

1034
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 10: the details of how these things flesh out. We are

1035
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:58,879
Speaker 10: expecting the three forensic experts that the defense wants to call.

1036
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:01,279
Speaker 10: The State did not object to them doing that, So

1037
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 10: these are going to be analysts, likely from the FBI

1038
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:10,279
Speaker 10: or the ATF, and so I'm not really expecting that

1039
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:13,879
Speaker 10: to be extensive. They're not going to offer the same

1040
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:18,279
Speaker 10: kind of like long background testimony that we're getting from

1041
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:23,560
Speaker 10: these witnesses like Officer Bagley and an agent whole who participated,

1042
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:26,719
Speaker 10: you know, extensively in different parts of the investigation. So

1043
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 10: there's just a lot of time and material for them

1044
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 10: to cover. The forensics tend to be much more discreet

1045
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:35,840
Speaker 10: and so they do tend to go a little bit faster.

1046
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:36,320
Speaker 11: For that reason.

1047
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:43,239
Speaker 4: Okay, so we've got I'm trying to make sure we

1048
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 4: dealt with all of the things I saw online. Erica

1049
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:48,759
Speaker 4: was actually sitting next to Charlie's parents. We dealt with that,

1050
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:54,279
Speaker 4: Graham did that the issue of the defense, It was

1051
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 4: actually the defense that was trying to block the presentation

1052
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:00,400
Speaker 4: of the evidence, not the state, not the pross secution.

1053
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:03,320
Speaker 4: And just to be expressly clear, we are in favor

1054
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 4: of max transparency.

1055
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 2: Here we are. And then you know the online.

1056
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:12,520
Speaker 4: Chatter about the compilation video that's going to be resubmitted tomorrow.

1057
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 4: If you're now I had there's a I have all

1058
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 4: these lawyers in my life that I didn't realize that

1059
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:20,600
Speaker 4: are like texting me out of the blue.

1060
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:22,399
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh hi, nice, you know, I forgot about

1061
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 2: you from high.

1062
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:25,440
Speaker 4: School, and you know, like they're but I had another

1063
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,240
Speaker 4: one of these guys text me, and he was basically

1064
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 4: saying that he think his basic understanding of the defense's

1065
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:37,799
Speaker 4: tactic here is sort of the dog that didn't bark, right.

1066
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:40,719
Speaker 4: It's it's almost like a tell that they don't have

1067
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 4: a better defense strategy. That they're going straight obstruction. I mean,

1068
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 4: am I reading too much into that? Or is this

1069
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:51,840
Speaker 4: person who gave me that take tell me if I'm wrong.

1070
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:53,759
Speaker 4: All Right, you're the you're the bearer of good and

1071
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 4: bad news. You call balls and strikes.

1072
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 11: Sure.

1073
00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 10: Well, look, I did this job for almost twenty years,

1074
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:03,040
Speaker 10: so everybody has a little bit of a different style

1075
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:04,799
Speaker 10: and a little bit of a different approach. But there

1076
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 10: are some pretty common grounds, particularly with the folks that

1077
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:12,600
Speaker 10: I relate to, which is the professional public defenders here

1078
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 10: on this defense team. And so there are certain things

1079
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 10: that I expect to be the case. Given that I

1080
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:23,160
Speaker 10: expect that if there is a strong case for factual innocence,

1081
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:25,439
Speaker 10: the defense is going to be asserting that. They're going

1082
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 10: to assert it early, they are going to assert it often.

1083
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:33,200
Speaker 10: And that's because it's just kind of routine. It's normal

1084
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 10: that anytime somebody is charged with a crime, there's a

1085
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 10: high volume of information from the state side, from the

1086
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 10: prosecution side, about why the charges are being laid.

1087
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 11: But the defense side often doesn't get heard.

1088
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 10: And so you have something that corrects some of that information,

1089
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 10: You're going to bring that out early. You're going to

1090
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 10: bring that out often. To try to correct some of that,

1091
00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:00,919
Speaker 10: just public opinion, public impression about the case, make sure

1092
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 10: that they understand there's more to the story here. Also,

1093
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 10: just seeing what has been focused on in the litigation,

1094
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 10: that's happened in the trial so far, some things stand

1095
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:12,280
Speaker 10: out to me.

1096
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 11: One is the absence.

1097
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 10: Of discovery disputes, one of the online chatter things that

1098
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 10: happens periodically.

1099
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 11: There have been some complaints, some statements.

1100
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 10: Made about the record about what the defense has or

1101
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 10: has not received through the discovery process. The defense has,

1102
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 10: by their own account, received a massive volume of information,

1103
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 10: hundreds and hundreds of terabytes of information, raw video data,

1104
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 10: raw cell phone data, digital data, a lot of this

1105
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 10: type of information. And so there may be, you know,

1106
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 10: things around the edges that the defense is unhappy with,

1107
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 10: but so far, none of that has risen to the

1108
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 10: level of actually moving for a court order to compel

1109
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:55,920
Speaker 10: that it be produced to you.

1110
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:57,960
Speaker 11: There may be reasons for that.

1111
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:01,600
Speaker 10: It may be because they're just waiting till this preliminary

1112
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 10: hearing is over. It may be because they don't actually

1113
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 10: have a strong right to get what it is that

1114
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 10: they're that they're asking for it.

1115
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 11: Maybe stuff has been able to be resolved.

1116
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 4: If you could go back in time and buy oil

1117
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 4: before the world relied on it, would you? Of course

1118
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 4: you would, anybody would, So why aren't you buying silver

1119
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:26,640
Speaker 4: right now? The people who recognized oil early didn't just

1120
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 4: make money, they got ahead of one of the biggest

1121
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 4: economic shifts in history, and today a similar opportunity is

1122
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:36,000
Speaker 4: unfolding with silver. Silver is more than a precious metal.

1123
00:59:36,040 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 4: It's a critical resource used in solar panels, electric vehicles,

1124
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:43,440
Speaker 4: defend systems, AI infrastructure, and the massive data centers powering

1125
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 4: that digital world. While demand keeps growing, it's still affordable

1126
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,439
Speaker 4: enough that the average American can start accumulating it right now.

1127
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:53,480
Speaker 4: That's why investors are turning to silver to protect against

1128
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:56,440
Speaker 4: inflation and to own one of the world's most important

1129
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 4: strategic resources. Don't be the person who looks back in

1130
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 4: ten years and so as I saw it coming, I

1131
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 4: just didn't act. Visit Noble Gold Investments dot com slash

1132
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:07,680
Speaker 4: kirk and learn how easy it is to own physical silver.

1133
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 4: That's Noble Gold Investments dot com slash kirk own the

1134
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 4: metal the future depends on. That's a really good point. So,

1135
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 4: just because because I'm just always predicting, where the internet

1136
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:22,240
Speaker 4: is going to go next. So they're going to hear

1137
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:25,200
Speaker 4: the defense go, we ask for this information and they're

1138
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 4: not giving it. And basically there are a lot of

1139
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 4: explanations why that, why they maybe not want to rush

1140
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 4: to give said intel right. They maybe they believe the

1141
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:37,439
Speaker 4: prosecution believes that they're not entitled to such and such

1142
01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 4: right or that they are planning on doing it. But

1143
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 4: you know, and what would be the conflict resolution there

1144
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 4: with the judge rule what they're entitled.

1145
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 2: It's kind of a case by case.

1146
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 10: Yeah, there can be a lot of different reasons why

1147
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:53,960
Speaker 10: you might be asking for something, and there's different levels

1148
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:55,040
Speaker 10: of entitlement to it.

1149
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 11: Utah rule what you're entitled to as.

1150
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:01,520
Speaker 10: A mandatory disclosure is very specifically, but there are typically

1151
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:05,520
Speaker 10: always catch alls where if it's necessary the interests of

1152
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:08,240
Speaker 10: justice and the interest of fairness or things like that,

1153
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 10: the judge can order the prosecution to have to provide it.

1154
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 10: There's always complications in cases where you have a state

1155
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 10: and federal law enforcement involved in a state prosecution. This

1156
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 10: is a whole complicated issue because of the supremacy clause

1157
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 10: of our Constitution, under which federal law enforcement they're not

1158
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:34,120
Speaker 10: bound by orders of a state court. They can't be

1159
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 10: subpoened into a state court. They can't be ordered to

1160
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:40,280
Speaker 10: produce documents by a state court, and so they have

1161
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:42,880
Speaker 10: their own processes that you have to work through in

1162
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:47,240
Speaker 10: order to get access to discovery from federal investigators. So

1163
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 10: something that criminal defense attorneys are very familiar with and

1164
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 10: have to navigate with some frequency, but it's not commonly

1165
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 10: known by the public what that looks like. So that

1166
01:01:57,280 --> 01:01:59,120
Speaker 10: can be part of it. Part of it can be

1167
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:01,840
Speaker 10: things like we we already know. One of the requests

1168
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 10: that they've made is they want the source code for

1169
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:10,480
Speaker 10: a proprietary piece of software that was used to calculate

1170
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:15,000
Speaker 10: the I'm going to use some technical language here, the

1171
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 10: deconvolution of the mixture, the DNA mixture. I don't know

1172
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:23,360
Speaker 10: which example exactly, but some of the DNA that was

1173
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 10: recovered in this case was a complex mixture. They have

1174
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 10: to analyze it statistically. They use the software program, and

1175
01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:33,160
Speaker 10: so the defense is demanding the source code to the

1176
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:37,160
Speaker 10: software program. I understand why they want it and think

1177
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:39,760
Speaker 10: that there's a, you know, good reason why they should

1178
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 10: have it, but whether that is something that the court

1179
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:46,920
Speaker 10: can compel a private organization to turn over is a

1180
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:49,840
Speaker 10: question whether there needs to be some kind of protection

1181
01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 10: for their intellectual property.

1182
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 4: You know, question like a New Zealand company or something

1183
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:56,560
Speaker 4: like that that owns them.

1184
01:02:57,080 --> 01:02:59,320
Speaker 10: I think it's yeah, the government of New Zealand or

1185
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:00,760
Speaker 10: government of US Raila.

1186
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:04,680
Speaker 4: Right right, So yeah, and so just leave it to

1187
01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:07,720
Speaker 4: the internet, by the way, to take the court's inability

1188
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:12,680
Speaker 4: to compel a foreign entity, a foreign private company to

1189
01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:16,600
Speaker 4: give away its bread and butter, it's moneymaker to the

1190
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:19,600
Speaker 4: state of Utah or the defensive Tyler Robinson. But but

1191
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:22,880
Speaker 4: that'll become the next thing people run with, Blake.

1192
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:26,920
Speaker 6: You had to well, I just wanted to because I

1193
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:29,080
Speaker 6: think about it all the time. When we last had

1194
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 6: you on, you predicted we're probably only going to see

1195
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:35,960
Speaker 6: the trial early twenty twenty eight, Spring twenty twenty eight.

1196
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:39,640
Speaker 6: Do you see any reason to adjust that timeline due

1197
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:41,640
Speaker 6: to events of the last couple months.

1198
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 11: Nope, nope. I continue to think that that is.

1199
01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:48,200
Speaker 10: And I hate to say this, guys, I really do

1200
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:49,400
Speaker 10: hate to keep driving this home.

1201
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:51,240
Speaker 11: But that's optimistic, it really is.

1202
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:53,440
Speaker 2: There's twenty twenty eight is optimistic.

1203
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 11: Yeah, early twenty twenty eight is optimistic.

1204
01:03:56,760 --> 01:03:59,920
Speaker 10: So there's a massive amount of investigation that the defense

1205
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:02,040
Speaker 10: is going to need to do, and there's a massive

1206
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 10: amount of litigation that is already being foreshadowed with things

1207
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:08,440
Speaker 10: like the scientific evidence and stuff like that. And this

1208
01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 10: is all going to be very time consuming, so it's gonna.

1209
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:13,440
Speaker 11: Take a while.

1210
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:18,480
Speaker 4: They're a terrible, terrible update, but I appreciate the candor

1211
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 4: the Andrea. There has been reports from like News Nation

1212
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:27,400
Speaker 4: has a reporter in there that Tyler Robinson Graham actually

1213
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 4: Graham saw it, so first time account from him as well.

1214
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:34,320
Speaker 4: Graham Allen did that that Tyler Robinson and I guess

1215
01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:39,320
Speaker 4: his lawyer, Nester we were laughing and that she was laughing.

1216
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:44,040
Speaker 4: And I've seen that go pretty far and wide. You know,

1217
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:48,440
Speaker 4: that's I'm just trying to put my head in the psychology.

1218
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:53,959
Speaker 4: If your client is you know, standing, you know, trial

1219
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:56,120
Speaker 4: for murder. It's a capital case. You could face the

1220
01:04:56,160 --> 01:05:00,200
Speaker 4: death penalty. Why, I mean, why would you be laughing?

1221
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:00,480
Speaker 2: Is this?

1222
01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:00,760
Speaker 1: Like?

1223
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:03,880
Speaker 4: Is that a tell that that's why they've been pushing

1224
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:06,360
Speaker 4: so hard to keep cameras out, Like maybe that's why

1225
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 4: they want to because they because they realize this kid's

1226
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:09,600
Speaker 4: his own worst enemy.

1227
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:10,960
Speaker 2: In that way, just optically.

1228
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,440
Speaker 4: But then I'm sort of questioning, like, why is the

1229
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:18,400
Speaker 4: lawyer giggling too? I just I can't fathom that, Like,

1230
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 4: this is a really somber thing that's happening here.

1231
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:25,720
Speaker 10: Yeah, I can absolutely appreciate that perspective, and I think

1232
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:28,640
Speaker 10: this might be one of those situations where they're they're

1233
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:31,600
Speaker 10: just there is a disconnect between the way that the

1234
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:34,840
Speaker 10: attorney and the defendant are encountering the process and the

1235
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:38,480
Speaker 10: way observers and even other participants in the courtroom are.

1236
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:41,720
Speaker 10: The defense lawyers, their primary concern number one is their

1237
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 10: clients well being, period, full stop. Whether he's guilty, whether

1238
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:49,360
Speaker 10: he's innocent. That's that's what their primary concern is. And

1239
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:54,960
Speaker 10: so court for the best of us, is a stressful

1240
01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:58,040
Speaker 10: it's a stressful process. And this is a young man

1241
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:01,040
Speaker 10: who doesn't appear to have any kind of criminal history.

1242
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:03,240
Speaker 10: This is a new experience for him. It's a very

1243
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:06,320
Speaker 10: high profile. They're going to want to put him at ease.

1244
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:09,520
Speaker 10: That's going to be one of their big concerns.

1245
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:09,800
Speaker 11: Is that he is not.

1246
01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:15,560
Speaker 10: They're racked with anxiety that he understands the process, that

1247
01:06:15,600 --> 01:06:19,920
Speaker 10: he's comfortable with what is going on. So it probably

1248
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:23,760
Speaker 10: does look bad, and I think if they were thinking

1249
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:26,240
Speaker 10: about it through that filter of what is it going

1250
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:29,200
Speaker 10: to look like to the cameras watching, they might behave

1251
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:32,200
Speaker 10: different But I don't think that is their their their

1252
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:33,600
Speaker 10: primary consideration here.

1253
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:34,560
Speaker 11: They want their.

1254
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:37,480
Speaker 10: Client comfortable and if that means adding some levity, some

1255
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:40,840
Speaker 10: dark humor to the situation, Lord knows, they are not

1256
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:43,120
Speaker 10: the only ones in this whole process that have had.

1257
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:43,360
Speaker 11: To do that.

1258
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:47,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I think that kind of sums it

1259
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:48,280
Speaker 4: up for the day.

1260
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:48,680
Speaker 2: Again.

1261
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:52,040
Speaker 4: I think the big the big revelations were the four

1262
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:55,320
Speaker 4: times they've got evidence that say, video evidence of him

1263
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:59,120
Speaker 4: being on campus. Four times Officer Bagley heard a shot

1264
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 4: and he identified it pretty quickly in his mind as

1265
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:05,919
Speaker 4: a rifle shot. He went up to the rooftop saw

1266
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:10,120
Speaker 4: what he would describe as a sniper's nest, and then,

1267
01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:14,680
Speaker 4: you know, I think the the other big one was Yeah,

1268
01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:16,200
Speaker 4: I think those were the two big ones. Those are

1269
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 4: really the two from an evidenciary standpoint, those were the

1270
01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:23,720
Speaker 4: two big revelations today. Uh, Blake Andrew, any final thoughts

1271
01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:25,680
Speaker 4: of things that we should be considering as we move

1272
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:27,760
Speaker 4: into tomorrow, and then we'll wrap this up.

1273
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:32,320
Speaker 11: I am just continuing to expect, you know, more of

1274
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:36,040
Speaker 11: the same. This is this has been a relatively.

1275
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:41,800
Speaker 10: Organized process, just fairly simple in terms of the rulings

1276
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:44,000
Speaker 10: and the and the types of objections and things like that.

1277
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:47,120
Speaker 10: There've been a little bit of you know, bumps in

1278
01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:49,000
Speaker 10: the road to sort out with things like is the

1279
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:49,640
Speaker 10: camera going.

1280
01:07:49,560 --> 01:07:51,440
Speaker 11: To get to show the exhibits to to those of

1281
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:52,960
Speaker 11: us at home and things like that.

1282
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:56,200
Speaker 10: But that's that's normal to work through some of those

1283
01:07:56,240 --> 01:07:58,919
Speaker 10: growing pains, and so now that everybody's on the same

1284
01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:01,480
Speaker 10: page about what the expectations are, I think we can

1285
01:08:01,520 --> 01:08:03,720
Speaker 10: expect a little bit more smooth sailing from here.

1286
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:07,960
Speaker 4: One last question here, I got a lot of people

1287
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:10,640
Speaker 4: reaching out to me just sort of saying, I can't

1288
01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:13,640
Speaker 4: believe the defense didn't waive the preliminary hearing. Was that

1289
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:16,800
Speaker 4: an option that they had, and what kind of what's

1290
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:19,080
Speaker 4: the calculation there either way?

1291
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:23,120
Speaker 10: Yeah, that's actually a great question, And so part of

1292
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:25,680
Speaker 10: the reason why I believe they didn't is because in

1293
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:29,080
Speaker 10: Utah it's not entirely up to them. The prosecutor has

1294
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:31,280
Speaker 10: a say in it as well. There is some case

1295
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:34,559
Speaker 10: law out of Utah that recognizes that the preliminary hearing

1296
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:37,400
Speaker 10: is also a right that the state has to present

1297
01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:40,160
Speaker 10: the basis of its case and its charging decision to

1298
01:08:40,280 --> 01:08:45,479
Speaker 10: the public. So had the prosecutor agreed to waive, then

1299
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:47,880
Speaker 10: we would be having, you know, potentially a different conversation.

1300
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:51,800
Speaker 10: But strategically, why people often do choose to wave it

1301
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:55,320
Speaker 10: is because of what we're seeing. There's evidence that's presented,

1302
01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:58,880
Speaker 10: and if the evidence we can assume is in culpatory,

1303
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:02,200
Speaker 10: it may not be the whole story, but it's the

1304
01:09:02,280 --> 01:09:05,560
Speaker 10: reason why there is a charging decision. It's it's selected

1305
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:09,720
Speaker 10: for that purpose. So it tends to be negative for

1306
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:13,120
Speaker 10: the defendant from the standpoint of you know, well, is

1307
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:15,679
Speaker 10: people having opinions about innocence or guilt?

1308
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:16,080
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1309
01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:19,840
Speaker 4: Do we have any indication that the prosecutor got to

1310
01:09:19,840 --> 01:09:20,439
Speaker 4: weigh in on this?

1311
01:09:20,600 --> 01:09:20,880
Speaker 2: Is there?

1312
01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:23,639
Speaker 4: Do we know that the prosecutor said, you know, hey,

1313
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:26,040
Speaker 4: if you try and waive this, we're gonna reject it.

1314
01:09:26,439 --> 01:09:28,719
Speaker 11: We don't, there's nothing in the record one way or another.

1315
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:31,880
Speaker 2: Okay, any final thoughts.

1316
01:09:33,280 --> 01:09:36,040
Speaker 6: I just as you said, like the big things we

1317
01:09:36,160 --> 01:09:38,400
Speaker 6: learned today, I feel something that's good to take a

1318
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:41,280
Speaker 6: step back because we've heard so many insane things that

1319
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:43,960
Speaker 6: what we heard today. There were no bombshells. They were

1320
01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:47,720
Speaker 6: things we obviously expected to hear, which is we all,

1321
01:09:48,439 --> 01:09:52,880
Speaker 6: I physically saw Charlie shot by a rifle shot. And

1322
01:09:53,320 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 6: this officer says, I heard a shot. A guy jumped

1323
01:09:56,200 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 6: up and waved his hands around, So I thought, oh,

1324
01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:00,479
Speaker 6: it was a close range thing, and then I did

1325
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:02,479
Speaker 6: the math in my head. He did he didn't have

1326
01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:04,559
Speaker 6: a gun, and that was a rifle shot, and then

1327
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:06,360
Speaker 6: he ran and then he went and looked for that.

1328
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:12,040
Speaker 6: And we have evidence that Tyler Robinson had been on

1329
01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:14,200
Speaker 6: the scene and fled the scene. And lo they say,

1330
01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:16,160
Speaker 6: we have the camera footage that says he was on

1331
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:19,120
Speaker 6: the scene multiple times. We're just getting exactly what we expected,

1332
01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:20,400
Speaker 6: and that's what we wanted to see.

1333
01:10:20,479 --> 01:10:23,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I got underscored as well that the we

1334
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:26,559
Speaker 4: got the medical examiner's reference to it that it was

1335
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:30,240
Speaker 4: death by you know, rifle or a gunshot wound, exactly

1336
01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:33,080
Speaker 4: what we would have expect, you know, exploding mics and

1337
01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:34,639
Speaker 4: all that kind of stuff.

1338
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:35,040
Speaker 2: You know.

1339
01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:39,320
Speaker 4: The medical examiner's report now confirms that. Okay, so I

1340
01:10:39,320 --> 01:10:41,639
Speaker 4: think that's gonna wrap it up for us today here. Andrea,

1341
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:44,000
Speaker 4: thank you so much for making your time I know

1342
01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:46,599
Speaker 4: you've been streaming all day and taking questions all day.

1343
01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:48,120
Speaker 2: I want to give you.

1344
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:51,400
Speaker 4: A shout out to your your your socials here again

1345
01:10:51,479 --> 01:10:53,960
Speaker 4: really quick. Sorry I don't have them pulled up, but

1346
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:56,160
Speaker 4: I just want to make sure I referenced them. Andrea

1347
01:10:56,320 --> 01:11:01,679
Speaker 4: Burkhart and that's b u r k h Aart dot

1348
01:11:01,720 --> 01:11:04,720
Speaker 4: substack dot com. Check her out there and what's your

1349
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:05,320
Speaker 4: ex handle?

1350
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:09,280
Speaker 10: X handle is Abercart Law and that's also on YouTube.

1351
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:12,320
Speaker 4: Okay, Aberkhart Law. Thank you so much, Andrea, thank you

1352
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:13,160
Speaker 4: for making the time for us.

1353
01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:14,680
Speaker 2: We really appreciate it.

1354
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:15,400
Speaker 11: My pleasure.

1355
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:18,000
Speaker 2: All right, Okay, excuse me.

1356
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:20,200
Speaker 4: We're gonna be doing this every day that there is

1357
01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:23,880
Speaker 4: a preliminary hearing and just recapping the big big takeaways

1358
01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:26,840
Speaker 4: and making sure that there is a talk about a

1359
01:11:26,920 --> 01:11:28,479
Speaker 4: court record. We want to make sure there is a

1360
01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:32,600
Speaker 4: factual record in the public and available to all of

1361
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:36,080
Speaker 4: you as you navigate this alongside with us. And we

1362
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:38,160
Speaker 4: appreciate you joining us, and we'll see you again tomorrow.

1363
01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:45,640
Speaker 2: For more on many of these stories and news you

1364
01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:47,599
Speaker 2: can trust, go to Charliekirk dot com.