1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: I'm delighted to welcome back our favorite guest host of 2 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: the Dinnis Show. 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 2: Hey, glad to be back on Awesome. 4 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:12,319 Speaker 1: Well, I thought we could talk to you a little 5 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: bit about because you've had some really good shows coming 6 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: out recently. You've done which we talked about last week, 7 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: your show on the Candice kind of feud we talked about. 8 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: I think previously you did some shows with Mike Huckabee 9 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: which was really interesting, and then this week you had 10 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 1: a new show come out that was maybe something you 11 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: can explain. It was a little bit about the College 12 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: Republicans leadership, what was going on there. 13 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, the. 14 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:47,480 Speaker 3: College Republicans, which is the largest youth organization in the country, 15 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 3: has a new political director and it's this guy named 16 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 3: Kai Schwimmer. 17 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 2: Now Kai is Mormon. 18 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 3: He is a very savvy, well spoken fellow and well connected, 19 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 3: but he also has a kind. 20 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 2: Of a graperish past. 21 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 3: He has photos with Nick Fuentes, and he had a 22 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 3: couple of quite startlingly insulting comments about Jews, using epithets 23 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 3: similar to the N word, but of course in this 24 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 3: case applying to Jews. 25 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,039 Speaker 2: But those were when he was younger, and so. 26 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 3: There was a kind of an outcry and people saying, well, 27 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 3: this guy needs to be you know, he needs to 28 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 3: be shut down. Why would College Republicans appoint someone like this? 29 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 3: And it raises for me a bunch of interesting issues. 30 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 3: I mean, one is, yeah, some of the things that 31 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 3: he says are pretty disturbing, But on the other hand, 32 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 3: he didn't say them now, he said them a while ago, 33 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 3: and so that's the first issue. Should people be I 34 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 3: don't like to use the word canceled, because we're not 35 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 3: talking about them being banned, talking about should this guy 36 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 3: be given an appointment? You know, people don't have a 37 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 3: right to have a particular appointment, So does it make 38 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 3: sense for College Republicans to have somebody. 39 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 2: With these views? 40 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 3: But the point is, if you said those things when 41 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 3: you were seventeen or sixteen, and now you're twenty four, 42 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 3: you know, should we have a sort of statute of 43 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 3: limitations or at least someone gives an explanation for why 44 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 3: they came to believe those things when they were young. 45 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 3: And so to me, it's not simply a matter of 46 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 3: writing these guys off, because I think some of them 47 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 3: are very talented, and so the idea of the conversation 48 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 3: and I think my show plays a good role here because, 49 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 3: on the one hand, I don't want to I don't 50 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 3: want to dig in and take a view that the 51 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 3: Gropers are flat out wrong on everything. I think that 52 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 3: some of their concerns are a rise out of legitimate 53 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 3: issues and issues that go beyond even their own group, 54 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 3: that reflect concerns of the younger generation. And we certainly 55 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 3: don't want to be writing off the younger generation. So 56 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 3: as somebody who's from the Reagan years, I thought, you know, 57 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 3: I'll keep an open mind and have a conversation which 58 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 3: I press him and probe him on these topics, but 59 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 3: with a view to seeing if there is some common 60 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 3: ground and also to see what the direction is for 61 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 3: MAGA and America first, even post Trump. 62 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, we can talk more about that, I guess before 63 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: we dive into that, what do you think about the 64 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: fact that in this time, because of digital age, because 65 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: of Twitter, all these things young people are on. It's 66 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: kind of like even when I was younger, there wasn't 67 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: really social media. I mean, when you were younger, there 68 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: was even less digital things, and I'm sure people set 69 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: all kinds of things to people in person, but none 70 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: of this was really ever recorded or documented to where 71 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: later if you're ever trying to do something as an adult, 72 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: it would come back to haunt you. And I'm not 73 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: saying that means that people should know say horrible things 74 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: or that makes it okay, but there is some extent 75 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: to which I think when people are younger, they're going 76 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: to you know, explore different ideas, and they probably shouldn't 77 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: be under a microscope every second. And that's I think 78 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:17,679 Speaker 1: something that's almost weird about today's generation being a young person, 79 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: because you could do something when you're under eighteen and 80 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 1: then later you're never you know, never have a job again. 81 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:25,679 Speaker 1: I mean, this is a different example that they talk about, 82 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 1: you know, the people on OnlyFans, they're acting you know, 83 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: like this online well that lives forever, and then you 84 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 1: know they made that kind of mistake. And so I 85 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: guess what do you think about the fact that this 86 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: is something young people have to contend with saying certain things. 87 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: Perhaps it comes back later. 88 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 2: Well. 89 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 3: I think this is a key point because the distinction 90 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 3: between the private and the public sphere is very important 91 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 3: in a liberal society. 92 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 2: It even applies by the way to our laws. 93 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 3: So for example, if you're hiring somebody for a job, 94 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 3: you can't discriminate, say, on the basis of race. But 95 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 3: let's say you're choosing someone to go on a date with. Well, 96 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 3: that's the private sphere. You absolutely are allowed to discriminate 97 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 3: on the basis of race. You can decide on whatever 98 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 3: basis you want to and nobody gets to second guess 99 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:19,599 Speaker 3: your judgment. So applying that kind of general distinction, you know, 100 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 3: in the old days, you could say something at home, 101 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 3: you could say something. 102 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:24,679 Speaker 2: In a bar with a group of friends or a dinner. 103 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 3: Nobody would hold you account for that, except maybe your 104 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 3: friend could be I was very surprised you said that. 105 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 2: That would be the end of the matter. 106 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 3: But if you're now doing it in a chat group 107 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 3: and somebody in that group decides, I'm going to leak 108 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 3: this exchange to you know, political Suddenly the private and 109 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 3: public distinction is completely erased, and you are now held 110 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 3: accountable for what you said as if you put it 111 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 3: in an op ed or set it on Fox News. Now, 112 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 3: that to me is unfair, And so this is precisely 113 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 3: the kind of nuance we have to recognize. We can't 114 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 3: apply the old standard unthinkingly because in the old world, 115 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 3: there was a private, protected space, and now that has 116 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 3: been to some degree diminished. 117 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this might not I might not be explaining 118 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: this well, but because I'm not. Actually it's into this 119 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: type of humor. But I know, especially male humor is 120 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: much more like making fun of different groups and saying 121 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 1: things about people. And obviously a lot of very famous 122 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: comedians do this about anybody, whether it's you know, this 123 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 1: stereotype or not stereotype, or age or gender or whatever. 124 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: And so to a degree it's kind of like, don't 125 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: I don't know much about this person or what they 126 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 1: said or anything. But also sometimes people just say things. 127 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 3: Well, you have to remember, I grew up in an 128 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 3: environment now this is India, and India is basically a 129 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 3: society without political correctness. But in my high school, which 130 00:06:57,680 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 3: was an all boys school, and I'm just using the 131 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 3: staleistri the point you're making, people had, you know, nicknames 132 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 3: that were like fatty, smelly. 133 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 2: I mean things like this. 134 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 3: Now, it's not that the guy who's smelly smelled all 135 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 3: the time, but probably at one point somebody took note 136 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 3: of the fact that he didn't bathe, or he came 137 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 3: to school right after he played sports and he got 138 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 3: the nickname and it stuck. 139 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 2: So the point here being that this is in. 140 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 3: Fact the way that and particularly you know think about 141 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 3: think about young people at a certain age. They're extremely candid, 142 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 3: They say exactly what they think, and they don't have inhibitions. 143 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 3: And this is particularly true of a bunch of boys 144 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 3: when they're among each other, they let their hair down, 145 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 3: sort of speak, and so all of this does need 146 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 3: to be to be taken into account. They also think 147 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 3: that stereotypes are funny. In fact, stereotypes are funny, and 148 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 3: the the only thing that happens in a society is 149 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 3: certain types of stereotypes are put out of bounds and 150 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 3: declared to be taboo, but other stereotypes are routinely used 151 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 3: and in fact are a very common staple of humor, 152 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 3: because humor relies on the generalization, right. The generalization is 153 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 3: something that we all observe, even if we don't comment on, 154 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 3: and what the comedian does is he brings it out 155 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 3: and there's that shock of recognition, and that's part of 156 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 3: where the humor. 157 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 2: The humor comes from. 158 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 3: So obviously, if you're talking about jokes made by sixteen 159 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 3: and seventeen year olds, they may not be that funny, 160 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 3: or they may only be funny to those guys, even 161 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 3: them later looking back, they would be like, I can't 162 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 3: believe I thought that was funny. 163 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,439 Speaker 2: So yeah, I think we have to approach all of. 164 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:52,839 Speaker 3: This in a generous and also a discriminating spirit. And 165 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,559 Speaker 3: that was my reason for wanting to have this conversation. 166 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's interesting because with comedy, even a lot 167 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:05,319 Speaker 1: of comedians or show old shows. I watched The Office, 168 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: and even Steve Carell, who's the star of I was like, 169 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: I can never mean that today because of the political climate, 170 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: because it's different. It's almost like all humor is gone. 171 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:15,959 Speaker 1: You can't make fun of anything. They would make fun 172 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: of a lot of like diversity and race and all 173 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 1: that stuff, and he's like, you can't do that anymore now. 174 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: It seems like we live in a society that's so 175 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: focused on only I guess the only humor on the 176 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:27,959 Speaker 1: left now is making fun of Trump or making fun 177 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 1: of mag or Republicans. But other than that, you can't 178 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: really even make any jokes. There's no humor anymore. So 179 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: I don't even know where the direction comedy could go 180 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: unless you can say things that are kind of outrageous 181 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: and crazy, and sometimes, you know, that's what leads to 182 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 1: their reaction. 183 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 3: You know, there was a view going back to the 184 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 3: Reagan years that there were certain groups that have had 185 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 3: a rough time historically, and the idea was that they 186 00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 3: retained some emotional scars and so making fun of is 187 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 3: not the same as making fun So a good example, 188 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 3: for example, would be whites and blacks. The idea was, well, look, 189 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 3: blacks have actually had a very rough history in America. 190 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 3: To make fun of a black person is not the 191 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,559 Speaker 3: same as a black guy making fun of a white person. 192 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 3: So there was a kind of built in double standard 193 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 3: that was condoned because of this belief that certain groups 194 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 3: are more vulnerable than other groups. Otherwise, you can make 195 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 3: fun of powerful groups because they can take it, but 196 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 3: you shouldn't be making fun of sort of defeated groups 197 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 3: because you're just inflicting more pain that they already have 198 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 3: a lot to They already have a lot to endure. 199 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 3: Now that argument has become completely invalid because in many 200 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 3: cases the roles have been reversed. So for example, you know, 201 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 3: blacks have had thirty years or forty years of legal 202 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 3: privilege in our society, an easier time in getting into college, 203 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 3: and easier time, and getting into grad school, an easier time, 204 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 3: in getting government contracts, an easier time, and getting jobs 205 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 3: and promotions. 206 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 2: So this institutionalized discrimination against whites. 207 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 3: Has at the very least leveled the playing field, but 208 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:17,439 Speaker 3: in some ways almost reverse roles. And so yes, I 209 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 3: do think that I do think that the old rules 210 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 3: of oh no, these people are out of bounds don't 211 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 3: really apply because they're not truly vulnerable in the old sense. 212 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, and something interesting too is, in my mind, the 213 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 1: only groups that would probably be genuinely you know, off 214 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: limits or something would be someone who has you know, 215 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: down syndrome, or someone who's you know, actually not not 216 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,719 Speaker 1: able to maybe understand or. 217 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 3: You know right, or children or you know, the exact 218 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 3: people who can't fight back. But I mean, for example, 219 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 3: it takes some group like gays. I who would say 220 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 3: the gays lack power in our society. They're very powerful. 221 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 3: In fact, they're very clever, they're perfectly capable of fighting back. 222 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 2: They do fight back. 223 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 3: So the idea there should be like a taboo on 224 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 3: gay humor, I say absolutely not. 225 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: In fact, I think they might be the ones who 226 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: like it. 227 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 2: The most. 228 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: They love humor and love to make fun of everybody else. 229 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 2: Right, Well, gay culture. 230 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:18,959 Speaker 1: Is cultural critics. 231 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the whole gay camp, the whole gay 232 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 3: aesthetic is all based upon scorn and smears and gossip 233 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 3: and running people down. You know, I don't spend a 234 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 3: lot of time like in hair salons and so on, 235 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 3: but you probably do more than me. And that is 236 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 3: a staple of you know, let me tell you about this, 237 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 3: and hey, did you check that out? And you know, 238 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 3: you know, she just looked absolutely atrocious in that outfit, 239 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 3: and so yeah, this is something that is dished out 240 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 3: by the gay community. And so again you can't just say, oh, well, 241 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 3: you shouldn't say that that's homophobic. All this notion of 242 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,559 Speaker 3: even all these phobias, think of bogus people have come 243 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 3: to realize, No, I'm not islamophobic, you know, I just 244 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 3: don't like, you know, terrorist detonating bombs in front of 245 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 3: Gracie Mansion in New York City. Yeah. 246 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:15,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like people are a lot more comfortable 247 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: now with saying things the way it is, as opposed 248 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 1: to being literally on edge, which I would say was 249 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: the case even not that long ago, not even you know, 250 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 1: going back to the eighties, but even like five years ago, 251 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,559 Speaker 1: probably obviously even when Trump was entering the scene ten 252 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: years ago, it was still that was so taboo. Now 253 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:37,079 Speaker 1: it's almost like, of course, we all accept the things 254 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: that Trump says, and that's not even controversial anymore. Controversial 255 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: things are more undoing all of these kind of like 256 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: political taboo topics. 257 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, Trump has done a lot to open up the 258 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 3: space of acceptable discourse. He certainly speaks in a language 259 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 3: that no president has spoken before. In general, I think 260 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 3: that's a good thing. I mean, occasionally you might say, 261 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 3: why did he say that, or he shouldn't have said that, 262 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 3: but the general idea of showing the kind of inner 263 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 3: workings of the government commenting in the candid way that 264 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 3: Trump almost you know, it's almost like he's a private citizen, 265 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 3: And sometimes when you listen to his posts, it seems 266 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 3: like he's not the president, he's just Trump commenting on 267 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 3: the way things, and you have to sort of remind 268 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 3: yourself that this is in fact the president talking, and 269 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 3: that dual effect is itself kind of amusing and entertaining. 270 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 3: So I find this to be a very entertaining phase 271 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 3: of the presidency. I'm a little worried that we won't 272 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 3: have this again, so we may as well enjoy it 273 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 3: while it's here. 274 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: That's so true. Trump is just one in a million, 275 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: and his comedy is hilarious. I love how every off 276 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: ended comment he ever makes your reporters or anything that 277 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: comes up is really just humorous, is in and of 278 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: itself and almost doesn't even circulate because there's so many that. 279 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: There's so many things he's always saying that are so funny. 280 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: What do you think is one of the most funny 281 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: things Trump has ever said, that he said to you 282 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: or that you've heard. 283 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 2: Well. 284 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 3: I like his post where he said this is actually 285 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 3: one of the oldies from Trump. 286 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 2: It was from before the presidency. 287 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 3: And he says something like, you know, when I was 288 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 3: twenty years old, I was Donald Trump. He goes when 289 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 3: Barack Obama was twenty years old, he was very Soweto. 290 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 3: Then he just goes weird. You know. 291 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 2: What he's stopping into is. 292 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 3: The peculiarity of Obama's past, But he does in such 293 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 3: a straightforward, disarming way that the effect of it is 294 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 3: pretty electric. The other thing about Trump is that he 295 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 3: is he has certain tropes that always elicit humor, and 296 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 3: of them is his own gargantuan ego, you know, and 297 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 3: he because there are people. 298 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 2: Who are massively egotistical. 299 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 3: DC, as you know, is full of these people, but 300 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 3: they've learned through education and etiquette to camouflage it, and 301 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 3: so they actually present them I'm so humble, I'm so humble, 302 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 3: and so on, whereas Trump, who is who is absolutely 303 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 3: unabashed about his so for example, and Maria Corina Machado says, 304 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 3: you know, take my Nobel price. The customary response is, 305 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 3: oh no, that's you know, very nice of you to 306 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 3: think of it, and so on. 307 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 2: But Trump is like, well. 308 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe, I mean, yeah, of course I should take it, 309 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 3: because I deserve it. And you know, I think I 310 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 3: really appreciate the fact that you recognize the prize really 311 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 3: belongs to me and not to you. 312 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, people are like who says that? 313 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 3: And there is a certain group, even on the Republican side, 314 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 3: that is a little appalled by this kind of conduct 315 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 3: because it is so out of keeping with what you 316 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 3: would consider kind of good graces. The reason that I 317 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 3: laugh at it and I don't have that view is 318 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 3: I think that the whole idea of good graces or 319 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 3: appropriate behavior has been discredited by the people who set 320 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 3: up those standards, and therefore we're not going to play 321 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 3: their game anymore because unfortunately, you have disgraced those standards. 322 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 3: It's like saying, you know, we're not taking a lot 323 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 3: of advice from the CDC and the NIH because you 324 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 3: the CDC and the NIH have been lying to us 325 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 3: for four years about COVID, So you have disgraced yourself. 326 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,360 Speaker 3: And it's not that we don't care about epidemics. It's 327 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 3: not that we distrust science. It's not that we distrust medicine. 328 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 3: It's that we distrust you. Right. 329 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: And it's interesting because I do feel like, in so 330 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: many ways, even though yes, that's true about Trump, he's 331 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 1: so funny, but he's also so genuine and warm. It's 332 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 1: almost like endearing because it's like, oh, you know, he 333 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: really does think these things, and he's just himself. He's 334 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: just really just being himself. On sometimes I think people 335 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: get so tired of the fakery, the pretend, the oh 336 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: I'll act like I'm so humbled by this, but I'm 337 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 1: really not, and all of that, and Trump is just 338 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 1: so different. What do you think we will see from 339 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: Trump over the next couple of years that will really 340 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: kind of solidify his legacy in our history. 341 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 3: Well, one comment about Trump and this issue of ego, 342 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 3: which I mentioned a moment ago. Trump is in person 343 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 3: very as you said, warm, but he's also very curious 344 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 3: about other people, and he takes a genuine interest in them. 345 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 2: He wants them to do better, and. 346 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 3: He cares about how they do better. I remember just 347 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 3: an offhand comment. You remember Diamond and Silk, and diamond 348 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 3: sadly passed away, but I remember it was Diamond or 349 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 3: Silk who was saying to me that when they were 350 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 3: when they met Trump and they were talking about the 351 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:15,919 Speaker 3: fact that they were making these videos about him and 352 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 3: they were getting all these views, it wasn't that Trump 353 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 3: was like, yeah, I'm the greatest. I'm glad you're I'm 354 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 3: glad you're celebrating my achievement. Trump was like, well, guys, listen, 355 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 3: you know, you need to figure out a way to 356 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 3: monetize those videos. And it was you need to figure 357 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,239 Speaker 3: out a way to make a business out of it 358 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 3: so you can do better by the content you're creating. 359 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 2: So this is not. 360 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 3: The hallmark psychology of a narcissist because narcissists normally there 361 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 3: the sun, the moon, and the stars, and and maybe 362 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 3: Trump thinks a little bit that way. But Trump is 363 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 3: also intrigued about, you know, how, how's your son doing here? 364 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 3: He took an exam, how did that turn out for him? 365 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,400 Speaker 3: As he looking for a job. Maybe he should think 366 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 3: about this. So, as I say, there's a and a 367 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 3: level of personal consideration that he shows people that in 368 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 3: a way is out of sync with his public you know, 369 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 3: like Braggadoccio and his public bomb bast. 370 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, Trump has definitely had. There are so many examples 371 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 1: too of Trump being so incredibly caring and thoughtful and 372 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: thinking of other people. And even with him pardoning Quayar, 373 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: it's like he just probably did that because he just 374 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 1: felt bad and probably you know, just has such a 375 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: big heart. So I think in many ways he is 376 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 1: like that. And he's not just about the the you know, 377 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 1: the narcissism that the left says, because that's actually not true. 378 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:43,120 Speaker 1: And what's crazy is maybe Obama is more of that example, 379 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: because he is a braging narcissist. But then at the 380 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,360 Speaker 1: same time he likes to act like he's very restrained 381 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 1: and he's very calculated about everything. What do you make 382 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: of Michelle and Obama's current relationship. 383 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 3: It's hard to know because I think that with some 384 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 3: of these characters, the Obamas the Clintons would be the same. 385 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 3: Their marriage is probably radically different from the way that 386 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 3: they portray it. And so Barck and Michelle often will 387 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 3: do these affectionate photos Happy birthday to the person who 388 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 3: is the sun and the moon, and so they have 389 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:29,120 Speaker 3: this kind of it's on the face of an insincere 390 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 3: and usually when people do that, it is to camouflage something, right, 391 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 3: And I even saw an old joke this is from 392 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 3: one of them. I may have been from the New 393 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 3: York or something, where I was talking about the fact 394 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,360 Speaker 3: that you know, if you're twenty eight years old, you're 395 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 3: twenty four years old and you're on a date and 396 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 3: you're holding hands, you know. 397 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 2: That's normal and that's cute and that's cool. 398 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 3: But if you're fifty three and you're holding hands, it's like, 399 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 3: what's going on. It's not that fifty three yels don't 400 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 3: hold hands. It's that if you're making a show of it, 401 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 3: it's usually because you're trying to camouflage something that you 402 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 3: don't want people to know. And I think with the 403 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 3: Obamas and the Clintons, these are very strange people. With 404 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 3: Barack and Michelle, for example, both of them cannot help 405 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 3: revealing that they are just massively egotistical. They're both megalomaniacs. Now, 406 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 3: usually when you have one megalomaniac and a devotee, that 407 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 3: kind of works. But two megalomaniacs is not a good combination. 408 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 3: And so I suspect that with Barack and Michelle they 409 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 3: actually live pretty separate lives, probably because they can't really 410 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 3: stand each other. Uh, and each one of them thinks 411 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 3: that the other is a monster. And I frankly think 412 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 3: both of them are correct. You know, I agree with 413 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 3: both in their in their assessment of the other. And 414 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 3: probably something similar is going on with the Clintons, where 415 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 3: they it's kind of like one of those old European 416 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 3: marriages of not convenience but rather a tactical alliance. And 417 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 3: I think that the Clinton marriage can be understood in 418 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 3: that way. 419 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you make of the fact with Michelle, 420 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: Because one thing that I find strange about her is 421 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: when she was first lady. I know a lot of 422 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 1: people say, you know, she looks like a man and 423 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: all this, But when she was first Lady, she did 424 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: dress and just act a bit more palatable, I think 425 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: to Americans, because you can't just come out and know 426 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 1: where and elect someone is acting like a total you know, 427 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: rapper or something. And so then she's kind of acting 428 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: you know, a little bit more I mean liberal, but right, 429 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: she'd like wear dresses and normal clothes, and then now 430 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 1: it's kind of like she goes to the full braids 431 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:51,360 Speaker 1: on the head. She'll wear like a lot more strange outfits, 432 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: like very eclectic or very like fashion forward, high designer 433 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 1: type clothes. She's much more like I think she's an 434 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: ic almost, or think she's like a pop star as 435 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: opposed to someone who was first Lady. And I guess 436 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: I'm just wondering what do you make of that or 437 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: her evolution. 438 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 3: I guess, Well, she herself has talked a little bit 439 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 3: a bit about it, and she apparently says that she 440 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 3: felt like a prisoner in the White House. 441 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 2: She hasn't used that exact phrase, but what she's. 442 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 3: Getting at is when I was in the White House, 443 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,640 Speaker 3: I was like the first Lady. I was you know, 444 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,199 Speaker 3: the I was the partner to the president, and so 445 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 3: I had to play a role. So she's implying that 446 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 3: that was a kind of costume that she put on 447 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 3: for those eight years, and now presumably she gets to 448 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 3: be more herself. And now we saw glimpses of this 449 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 3: Michelle even then, you know, she'd be at a ceremony 450 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 3: when she see. 451 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 2: The flag and she'd whisper to Baracol, this for a flag. 452 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 2: So that's the kind of thing. 453 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 3: But of course there she was caught on a mic 454 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 3: saying that she meant to only say it to Barack, 455 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 3: and you get an idea here that he is in 456 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 3: agreement with that sentiment because she wasn't saying it as 457 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 3: if she was saying something controversial. 458 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 2: She expected him to. 459 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 3: Go, yeah, you're right. 460 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 2: So that's how both of them felt about the situation. 461 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: Do you think they both have always wanted to be 462 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 1: like Beyonce and jays d or something, because it seems 463 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: like they think of themselves as more like Hollywood icons 464 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. They don't actually really think of 465 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: themselves as much as servants of the country or people 466 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 1: who were more patriotic, or people who are in the 467 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,120 Speaker 1: president mode. It's almost weird to think that he was president. 468 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 3: Well, I think that This is where Barack and Michelle 469 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 3: are different, because I think she would be she's basically, 470 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 3: you know, kind of an elderly version of Megan Markle 471 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 3: Michelle and has all the qualities that Megan Markle shows. 472 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 3: She's in other words, there is a certain there's something 473 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:12,440 Speaker 3: about them that is, even though they're outwardly quite presentable, 474 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 3: there's something like repellent about them, and it's it's because 475 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,639 Speaker 3: of their character. They can't help revealing it. But I 476 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 3: think the main difference is that Barack is a kind 477 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,679 Speaker 3: of revolutionary in a way that Michelle is not. 478 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 2: Barack likes power. 479 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 3: If you told Barack, listen, you can have a successful career, 480 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,400 Speaker 3: let's just say as a rapper or as an actor, 481 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 3: he wouldn't want to do it because I think that 482 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 3: he now he likes the idea of making a big 483 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 3: Netflix deal and collecting twenty million dollars for doing nothing. 484 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 3: So he's likes the idea of being a bit of 485 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 3: a globe trotter now. But I think that I think 486 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,199 Speaker 3: that not only did he use power quite ruthlessly in 487 00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,159 Speaker 3: his two terms, but there's good reason to believe he 488 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 3: had a third term with Biden, and so I think 489 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 3: this guy would be happy to have had a fourth 490 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 3: term if you could get it with Kamala Harris, but. 491 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 2: Trump thwarted that plan. 492 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, No, definitely, And it seems like they probably are 493 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 1: still wrapping their heads around the fact that Trump was 494 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: president and then made it such an amazing comeback. They 495 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,360 Speaker 1: probably thought that they had they'd stopped in the first time, 496 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: but he made this incredible come back. And I guess 497 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: last question is do you think that Michelle and Barack 498 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: are going to stay on the political scene moving forward? 499 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 1: Do you think Michelle is going to keep up these 500 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 1: interviews because she's been doing a lot of these podcast 501 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: interviews where she talks about how, you know, women giving 502 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,119 Speaker 1: birth isn't really the most important thing, and you know, 503 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: don't do all these things for your kids because they'll 504 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: just grow up and not care about you anymore. Do 505 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: you think she's just going to keep on going in 506 00:27:54,760 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: that direction of just total kind of feminist negativity, elderly anger, 507 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: and Barack's just going to keep trying to influence politics. 508 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 3: Well, recently, Barack has been posting about his library, so 509 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 3: he's probably thinking of making that the podium for the 510 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 3: next phase of his life. Now. 511 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 2: I don't know. 512 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,879 Speaker 3: If you've seen photos of the library, it looks like 513 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 3: a large version of a dumpster. No, seriously, it is 514 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:32,159 Speaker 3: like it's modern art. Yeah, it is like taking a 515 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 3: dumpster and making it like five. 516 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:37,880 Speaker 2: Stories tall. 517 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 3: And and in fact, you know how dumpsters often have 518 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 3: like graffiti on it. His library has like graffiti on it, 519 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 3: except it's part of the architecture. I think it's beautiful, 520 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 3: beautiful in the sense that it is like it's almost 521 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 3: like a reflection of Barack's soul. 522 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 2: It's very appropriate. 523 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 3: I mean, it's absolutely it's almost like taking his inner self, 524 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 3: which he has hidden from the public for the eight 525 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 3: years of his presidency, and it all comes out unintentionally 526 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 3: in this architectural monstrosity. Now with regard to Michelle, Yeah, 527 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 3: it's almost like she's going for a sort of Oprah 528 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 3: style identity where she becomes a kind of combination of 529 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 3: self affirmation and life guru, and she gives advice that 530 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 3: nobody really wants. I'm sure no one really follows. And 531 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 3: you know, when you present this advice in a kind 532 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 3: of self expression mode, you're almost saying, this is my 533 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 3: life path, this is how I'm trying to find self realization. 534 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 3: I recognize that this is in fact a trope in 535 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 3: our culture. I find it immensely boring for the simple 536 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 3: reason that, you know, if if ultimately each one of 537 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 3: us is finding our own unique life path, then. 538 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 2: Why would I care about yours? I would only care 539 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 2: about mine. 540 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 3: Now, the only reason for me to be interested in 541 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 3: yours is if we as human beings have a common good, 542 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 3: or if there are there are goals that we all 543 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 3: strive toward, or we all have a soul and we're all. 544 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 2: Pursuing justice or virtue. 545 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 3: So when the ancient Greeks talked about these things, they 546 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 3: assumed that human beings have a common nature, And if 547 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 3: we have a common nature, it means that we're going 548 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 3: to pursue the good in. 549 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 2: Somewhat the same way. 550 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 3: This is not to say that there aren't multiple goods 551 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 3: and we sometimes have to choose one over the other. 552 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 3: But but Michelle almost acts as if she is a 553 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 3: you know, think of like a painter doing their own 554 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 3: modern art. They think of their life as their own painting. Well, 555 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 3: if you're throwing paint at your canvas, why would I 556 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 3: want to watch you? I mean, I can throw paint 557 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 3: on my canvas in the same way, and so there 558 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 3: is inherently I think you lose interest right away in 559 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 3: this enterprise. It's and I think it's odd that Michelle 560 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 3: doesn't seem to know that. She seems to think that 561 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 3: because she's Michelle Obama, we all want to watch her 562 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 3: throwing paint at the wall. And the reason that her 563 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 3: podcast is a total flop, I mean you can actually 564 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 3: think of it. 565 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 2: She's Michelle Obama. 566 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 3: You would guess in the abstract that if she's doing 567 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 3: a podcast, like one million people would be listening. 568 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 2: Oh no, it's more like forty seven. Wow. 569 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 1: Well, thank you for joining us today with these thoughts. 570 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: We'll have to talk more about the Obamas next time 571 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: because there's so much, so much there, So thanks for 572 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 1: joining us. Make sure to check out the Dnest Show. 573 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: If you haven't watched his recent episode, make sure to 574 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 1: like and subscribe and watch so you can see the latest. 575 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. I should also mention I'm now on substack. 576 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 3: This is new because it takes me back to my 577 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 3: old journalism days, and so check it out. It's just 578 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 3: Dinesh D'suza dot substack dot com. You can actually subscribe 579 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 3: for free and check out a lot of times. I 580 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 3: take my monologues on the new show and I convert 581 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 3: them into articles. So substack is a great place to 582 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 3: read stuff from Denesh. 583 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: Okay Denesh on substack awesome the next time