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Speaker 1: Coming up, I'm going to offer some thoughts about the

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Speaker 1: big election in Chile and a very favorable result, and

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Speaker 1: then the rest of this podcast Today is a special episode.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to talk in detail about the issue of

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Speaker 1: life after death, drawing from my book of that title,

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Speaker 1: and so buckle up. Hey, if you're watching on x

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Speaker 1: Rumbler YouTube, listening on Apple or Spotify, please subscribe. I'd

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Speaker 1: appreciate it. This is the Zagat.

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Speaker 2: America needs this voice. The times are crazy, in a

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Speaker 2: time of confusion, division and lies. We need a brave

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Speaker 2: voice of reason, understanding and truth. This is the Desuza Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Today is a special episode of the podcast focused on

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Speaker 1: themes out of my book called Life after Death. The

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Speaker 1: evidence were going to really kind of get into it

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Speaker 1: because I've got the full podcast to do it. And

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Speaker 1: some of this will seem a little bit mind bending,

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Speaker 1: but I think in a very good way. It'll stretch

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Speaker 1: your mind, it'll put some new thoughts in there, it'll

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Speaker 1: give you a fresh perspective. Some of it may seem

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Speaker 1: a little outrageous, but in a provocative and interesting way.

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Speaker 1: And this also may be a podcast you want to

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Speaker 1: at some point listen to a second time. Just to

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Speaker 1: get a full grasp of some of the themes that I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be covering. Before I dive into it, I

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Speaker 1: want to say a few words about the recent election

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Speaker 1: result in Chile. Very good result. The people of Chile

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Speaker 1: rejected the leftist, the socialist candidate. Some people calling her

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Speaker 1: a communist, but let's just go with socialist and that's

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Speaker 1: good enough. She was decisive, voted down basically a sixty

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Speaker 1: forty election, so a big win for cast Kast. This

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Speaker 1: is the guy who is the conservative. Now, I noticed

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Speaker 1: in the BBC in some other places far right candidate

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Speaker 1: wins in Chile, basically, if you defeat the communist, the

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Speaker 1: BBC calls you far right? And what does it mean

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Speaker 1: to use these idiotic terms. I mean, the Chilean people

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Speaker 1: decide who they want to represent them. If sixty percent

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Speaker 1: of them pick this guy cast, he's by definition mainstream.

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Speaker 1: How can he be quote far right? Are you using

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Speaker 1: some kind of objective definition of far right that is

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Speaker 1: detached from the actual values and aspirations of the Chilean people.

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Speaker 1: That makes absolutely no sense. This candidate, who gets sixty

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Speaker 1: percent of the vote of his country is by definition

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Speaker 1: someone who is close to the center. He represents the mainstream,

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Speaker 1: which is to say, the center of the body politic. Now,

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Speaker 1: what's going on in Latin America, by the way, and

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Speaker 1: this can be almost directly traced back to Javier Malay's

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Speaker 1: astounding and landmark wind in Argentina, is that the whole

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Speaker 1: southern part of the continent has turned our way. Now,

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Speaker 1: Malay himself put out a post in which he really

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Speaker 1: shows a map with the red and the blue, and

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Speaker 1: he shows a blue tide sweeping across the bottom of

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Speaker 1: South America. The top of South America looks red, mainly

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Speaker 1: because Brazil, the largest country in the continent, is leftist.

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Speaker 1: It's run by Lula de Silva. But notice that for Malay,

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Speaker 1: blue is actually the right wing and red is the left,

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Speaker 1: which makes more sense right because red is a color

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Speaker 1: associated with communism. But somehow, in our twisted upside down nomenclature,

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Speaker 1: we consider the red states to be right wings. So

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Speaker 1: we got to keep these things in mind. It's a

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Speaker 1: little bit like with the word liberal. Liberal to us

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Speaker 1: means the left, but in other parts of Europe, Australia, Canada,

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Speaker 1: liberal means the right and the Labor Party or the

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Speaker 1: left is different. From the liberals in any event, with

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Speaker 1: Buquele now in El Salvador, cast in Chile, and Milay

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Speaker 1: of course in Argentina doing, by the way, very well there,

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Speaker 1: and there's a big election coming up in Argentina next year. Now,

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Speaker 1: Chile used to be a very prosperous country, kind of

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Speaker 1: the way Venezuela used to be in at one time.

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Speaker 1: And Chile's prosperity goes back rather surprisingly to the days

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Speaker 1: of Pinochet. Pinochet, although he was an autocratic thug and

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Speaker 1: a military man, realized I need some good ideas which

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Speaker 1: I don't have, about how to run my country. And

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Speaker 1: he brought in the students of Milton Friedman, if you

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Speaker 1: can believe it, and he said, set up a system

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Speaker 1: for me. Here, a free market system which will bring

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Speaker 1: prosperity to my country. And not only did the so

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Speaker 1: called Freedman boys go down to Chile, they devised an

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Speaker 1: economic free market apparatus. They also devised a social security

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Speaker 1: system for Chile based upon putting money in private accounts,

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Speaker 1: in other words, in retirement accounts and stock markets, kind

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Speaker 1: of like an expanded Ira system. But they did this

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Speaker 1: instead of a social security system run by the government

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Speaker 1: and it worked, and it worked across the board, not

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Speaker 1: just in their retirement accounts, but for the Chilean economy.

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Speaker 1: And then I think Chile got a little bit fat

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Speaker 1: and happy and decided, well, you know, maybe we should

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Speaker 1: try some redistribution, maybe we should try some socialism. And

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Speaker 1: so they pivoted away from the conservative candidates who had

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Speaker 1: been winning. By the way, Pinochen the Pinochet dictatorship gave

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Speaker 1: way to democracy. So you've had right wing governments in

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Speaker 1: Chile until they decided to experiment with socialism. No surprise,

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Speaker 1: that experiment turned out to be a total disaster, and

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Speaker 1: so Chile has seen the light and swung back to

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Speaker 1: the right. I don't know that's a hopeful sign for

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Speaker 1: places like Massachusetts and California and Mamdani's New York. Is

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Speaker 1: it possible that people in this country would be like, look,

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Speaker 1: socialism or socialist type policies are a complete disaster, and

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Speaker 1: we need to resoundingly vote them out. We haven't seen

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Speaker 1: really that happen in this country yet, but maybe the

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Speaker 1: example of what of Chile is a reason for some hope.

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Speaker 1: Imagine exploring Israel, where thousands of years of history are

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Speaker 1: we're going to pick it up where I left off

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Speaker 1: and talk about life after death. We're going to talk

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Speaker 1: first about a topic that we are already in the

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Speaker 1: middle of, which is the mind and the brain, and

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about those in some detail. Why

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Speaker 1: is this important or relevant to life after death? Well,

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Speaker 1: for the simple reason that the mind is immaterial, the

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Speaker 1: brain is physical. The physical part of you dies, we

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Speaker 1: know that, but does the mental part of you? Does

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Speaker 1: consciousness live on? That's the question we're kind of exploring here,

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Speaker 1: and we're getting to my first real proof of life

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Speaker 1: after that. I'm going to try in the book to

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Speaker 1: give three or four like rock solid proofs, and my

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Speaker 1: point being that even if you don't accept all of them,

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Speaker 1: I think you will. But even if you don't, any

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Speaker 1: one of the four is enough to establish good reason

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Speaker 1: to believe in life after death. You don't need all

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Speaker 1: four to work, you only need one to work. But

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Speaker 1: taken together, they are, in my view, a very persuasive

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Speaker 1: or convincing case for the proposition. I'm trying to establish here. Now,

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Speaker 1: when we left our last time, we were talking about

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Speaker 1: the difference between the mind and the brain, and I

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Speaker 1: was answering the argument from functionalism. Functionalism is simply this

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Speaker 1: idea that the mind is the function of the brain.

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Speaker 1: The mind is what the brain does. The mind is

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Speaker 1: just a term for the actions carried out by the brain,

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Speaker 1: in the same way that a mousetrap is simply what

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Speaker 1: a mousetrap does. If a mousetrap catches mice, well that's

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Speaker 1: what you call a mousetrap. And this functional problem, well,

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Speaker 1: this functional argument, I want to suggest, can be refuted

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Speaker 1: by really showing that the inner quality of the mind,

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Speaker 1: the internal experience of the mind, is totally different than

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Speaker 1: the physical state of the brain. And even if you

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Speaker 1: describe the activities that are carried out by the brain

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Speaker 1: or by the human person at the direction of the brain,

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Speaker 1: those do not capture at all this inner mental state

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Speaker 1: that is what the mind is. The mind is ultimately

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Speaker 1: a collection of these inner mental states. So let's look

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Speaker 1: at how this works by examining what philosopher Frank Jackson

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Speaker 1: this is now going back to the nineteen eighties. He

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Speaker 1: envisions a scenario that he calls the Mary problem, involving

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Speaker 1: a hypothetical person called Mary. And here's the point. Mary

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Speaker 1: is like locked in a room and it's a black

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Speaker 1: and white room, and she investigates the world through a

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Speaker 1: black and white TV monitor. And she has been doing

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Speaker 1: this for her whole life. She has never been outside

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Speaker 1: the room. And she is a specialist in neurophysiology, and

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Speaker 1: so she knows a lot about color. She knows about wavelength,

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Speaker 1: she knows about light. She knows about how the retina

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Speaker 1: gets stimulated by light. She knows how those stimuli are

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Speaker 1: channel to different parts of the brain. She knows how

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Speaker 1: the how certain parts of the brain light up and

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Speaker 1: cause people to say things like the sky is blue,

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Speaker 1: tomatoes are red, my pants are green, and so on.

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Speaker 1: And here's the question that Jackson is asking. So Mary

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Speaker 1: knows everything that there is to know about color. However,

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Speaker 1: she has never actually seen these colors. She lives in

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Speaker 1: a black and white world. That's the only world that

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Speaker 1: she has actually experienced. Now, let's say Mary is for

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Speaker 1: the first time in her life, taken out of this room,

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Speaker 1: the black and white room, and she's put into the

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Speaker 1: normal world, the outside world. And now she's sees a

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Speaker 1: blue sky, and now she sees a red tomato, and

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Speaker 1: now she sees Dnash wearing his green pants. And philosopher

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Speaker 1: Frank Jackson asks this question, does Mary now learn something

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Speaker 1: new about color that she previously didn't know? Now, what

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Speaker 1: are we getting at here? If we're getting at is this? Yes,

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Speaker 1: Mary experiences something new. She experiences what it is like

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Speaker 1: to see the color red, what it is like to

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Speaker 1: see the color blue in the sky, what it is

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Speaker 1: like to see green pants. Before that, she could have

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Speaker 1: all the knowledge in the world about red, about blue,

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Speaker 1: about green, about color. And yet it is that all

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Speaker 1: of that would not prepare her in any way, would

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Speaker 1: actually like to sea red and sea blue and sea green.

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Speaker 1: So this is a way of saying that the inner

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Speaker 1: quality of an experience, the way that you experience it

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Speaker 1: on the inside, is completely different from the mental states

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Speaker 1: that seem to correlate with or even produce this inner quality.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about two different things. Now, faced with all

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Speaker 1: of this, these refutations of identity theory which I referred

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Speaker 1: to earlier, or functionalism, which I've referred to now, the

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Speaker 1: refuge of the materialists. The refuge of the Daniel Dennetts

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Speaker 1: to say, in the fact, hey listen. If you're saying

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Speaker 1: that material objects cannot function like a mind, well what

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Speaker 1: about a computer? What about a supercomputer? What about AI?

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Speaker 1: Isn't AI functioning like a human mind? And I want

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Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about this because it's interesting

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Speaker 1: bearing on life after death. And the question I want

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Speaker 1: to ask what we're going to get into is can

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Speaker 1: computers think? Or to put someone differently, can AI think?

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Speaker 1: Is AI doing any kind of thinking at all? I'm

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Speaker 1: going to argue, believe it or not? No, No, But

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Speaker 1: this is not to deny that AI produces valuable information.

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Speaker 1: It's not to deny that AI can generate results that

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Speaker 1: even the human mind is incapable of doing. But let's

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Speaker 1: notice that this is not unique to AI. Calculators can

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Speaker 1: do thinking that you and I couldn't possibly do. They

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Speaker 1: can multiply giant numbers with nine digits apiece and give

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Speaker 1: you the result in two seconds. But does that mean

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Speaker 1: that the calculator is thinking? No, it is isn't the

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Speaker 1: calculator is performing a certain type of operation. We'll get

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Speaker 1: into what that is. But thinking is one thing that

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Speaker 1: the calculator is not doing. But this idea that computers

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Speaker 1: can think, AI can think. It all started really when

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Speaker 1: a computer, Deep Blue, was able to beat the world

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Speaker 1: champion Gary Kasparov in chess, and that suddenly created this

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Speaker 1: whole issue about yes, computers can think, and computers can

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Speaker 1: pass the Turing test. What's the Turing test? Well, it

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Speaker 1: goes back to the not Frank Turing, but sorry Alan Turing,

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Speaker 1: the test proposed many many years ago, where Alan Turing

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Speaker 1: basically said, listen, here's a way to figure out if

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Speaker 1: a computer is thinking or not. Let's give a bunch

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Speaker 1: of questions to human beings, and the human beings will

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Speaker 1: give their answers, and those answers can be recorded. Let's

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Speaker 1: pose the same questions to a bunch of camputers, and

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Speaker 1: if the computers can give answers that are indistinguishable from

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Speaker 1: the human answers, well, then there you go. The computer

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Speaker 1: is obviously doing what humans do. The computer is obviously thinking. Now,

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Speaker 1: notice that what Alan Turing is doing here is giving

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Speaker 1: a functional definition of what it means to think to me,

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Speaker 1: thinking is something that occurs in your mind. Thinking is

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Speaker 1: something that occurs behind a screen. Thinking is something that

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Speaker 1: occurs inside of me. But Turing is saying, no, well,

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Speaker 1: let's not look at it that way. Let's look at

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Speaker 1: thinking that makes you answer a question a certain way.

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Speaker 1: If I give you an equation to this, you're going

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Speaker 1: to solve the equation. That's your thinking. If the computer

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Speaker 1: can solve the equation the same way, well, the computer

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Speaker 1: is obviously doing what you do, and so looked at

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Speaker 1: through function, you can see that there's a kind of similarity,

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Speaker 1: if not identity, between what the computer is doing and

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Speaker 1: what and what you're doing. So I don't want to

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Speaker 1: deny that computers can pass the Turing test. I agree

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Speaker 1: that artificial intelligence, for example, can not only pass a

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Speaker 1: Touring test in which you can't tell if it's a

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Speaker 1: human being or artificial intelligence. In fact, some people would

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Speaker 1: say artificial intelligence is so good that it synthesizes so

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Speaker 1: much information, it's better than humans. You can identify it

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Speaker 1: as not only similar to human thinking, but superior to

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Speaker 1: human thinking, and we're likely to see the superiority increase.

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Speaker 1: I saw an interesting report recently that the IQ of

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Speaker 1: AI very good. AI today is something like one hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty. And since there are many human beings who

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Speaker 1: have IQs higher than that, they're smarter than AI. As

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Speaker 1: of now, they don't have more information than AI, but

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Speaker 1: they're smarter than AI in terms of the cogency of

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Speaker 1: their reasoning and the creativity of it. But AI will

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Speaker 1: keep getting better, and AI will at some point become

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Speaker 1: better smarter, if you will, in this sense than any

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Speaker 1: human being, in the same way that a calculator can

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Speaker 1: do calculations far better than any human being can do.

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Speaker 1: So let's take it for granted that a computer or AI,

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Speaker 1: working at its best, can replicate human discussions, write book reviews,

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Speaker 1: come up with movie plots, and play chess, and in

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Speaker 1: that sense do all the results of what human beings

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Speaker 1: can do in quote thinking. And therefore it appears to

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Speaker 1: be that the computer like AI, is in fact quote thinking. Now,

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Speaker 1: how do we evaluate this to see if computers can

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Speaker 1: actually think? I think it's one way to do this.

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Speaker 1: A very interesting way comes from a philosopher named John Searle,

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Speaker 1: who many years ago came up with what he calls

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Speaker 1: the Chinese Room. The Chinese Room experiment. We're going to

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Speaker 1: do the Chinese room experiment as a thought experiment. We

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Speaker 1: don't need to construct the actual room. I will describe

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Speaker 1: to you the experiment and you can perform it kind

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Speaker 1: of in your head. So here you are as a

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Speaker 1: Chinese room, and you a single individual. Let's say Debbie

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Speaker 1: is sitting in the middle of this room, and she

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Speaker 1: has a whole bunch of these big note cards, big

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Speaker 1: sheets of paper. Each one has a note card, and

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Speaker 1: each note card has a big Chinese ideogram, a kind

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Speaker 1: of Chinese drawing on it. And Debbie doesn't know a

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Speaker 1: word of Chinese, and so she's sitting there with these

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Speaker 1: Chinese ideograms and she looks through them and they're totally incomprehensible.

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Speaker 1: They make absolutely no sense to her. She cannot make

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Speaker 1: head nor tail of it. But the people doing the

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Speaker 1: experiments supply Debbie with a code bookook. And what does

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Speaker 1: this codebook do? This codebook is actually written in English,

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Speaker 1: and it gives you very detailed instructions which basically say,

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Speaker 1: if you see this kind of symbol, it correlates with

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Speaker 1: this kind of symbol, and when you are given this symbol,

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Speaker 1: look for that symbol. So, in other words, the codebook

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Speaker 1: gives you a map for which symbols correlate with other symbols.

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Speaker 1: And what Debbie doesn't know is that the first set

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Speaker 1: of symbols are quote the questions, and the other set

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Speaker 1: of symbols that you're supposed to correlate with using the codebook,

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Speaker 1: those are quote the answers. So it's kind of like

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Speaker 1: I'm asking you a question ideogram A, and you, using

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Speaker 1: the codebook, realize that the answer is ideogram F. And

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Speaker 1: so since you have the codebook, you can always correlate

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Speaker 1: symbol to symbol and pre quote the correct answer because

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Speaker 1: the codebook shows you how to do that. So you

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Speaker 1: become so good at this, Debbie becomes so fascile that

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Speaker 1: basically what goes on is that the questioners point to

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Speaker 1: one ideogram boom, and Debbie knows using the code book

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Speaker 1: boom boom, boom. She goes, that's the answer. Here you go.

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Speaker 1: And she's so good at this that she is just

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Speaker 1: as good as a Chinese speaker, because the Chinese speaker

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Speaker 1: knows what the questions are, knows what the answers are.

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Speaker 1: Debbie doesn't. But Debbie has the codebook, and using the codebook,

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Speaker 1: she can go from question here to answer there. And

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Speaker 1: so the question that the philosopher John Searle is asking

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Speaker 1: is can Debbie speak Chinese? Does she know Chinese? And

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Speaker 1: the answer is no, she has no understanding of Chinese

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Speaker 1: at all. She simply performs a set of programmed operations

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Speaker 1: given from the codebook so she can get the correct answer,

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Speaker 1: but without understanding Chinese at all. And if you think

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Speaker 1: about it, isn't this exactly what a computer does? Isn't

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Speaker 1: this exactly what AI does? AI is programmed. Computers are programmed.

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Speaker 1: They perform mechanical operations, the mechanical operations of varying degrees

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Speaker 1: of complexity. They may involve dots and dashes, they may

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Speaker 1: involve ones and zeros. They may involve forging the entire

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Speaker 1: Internet and scooping up information and synthesizing it again according

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Speaker 1: to programmatic rules. But the computer doesn't have any idea

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Speaker 1: what it's doing. It has no comprehension of the English language,

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Speaker 1: it has no comprehension of history, it has no comprehension

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Speaker 1: of mathematics. It is simply doing what it is programmed

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Speaker 1: to do. And however sophisticated those programs are. And let's

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Speaker 1: remember that, where does the information in these programs come

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Speaker 1: from well, it comes from the ocean of information generated

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Speaker 1: by human beings. So what the computer is doing is

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Speaker 1: ultimately rearranging, synthesizing, pulling out from this body of human

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Speaker 1: generated information, using rules that human beings have programmed into

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Speaker 1: the computer, and producing the IDEO growth ideogram and going

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Speaker 1: that's the correct answer. But it takes you and me

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Speaker 1: to know it's the correct answer. The computer is just

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Speaker 1: doing what it's told. So the computer isn't thinking. You're thinking,

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Speaker 1: and I'm thinking, and the computer programmers are thinking, but

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Speaker 1: the thinking is being done by us, not by the computer.

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Speaker 1: Now John Serlin, trying to explain this Chinese room experiment,

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Speaker 1: which is admittedly a little complex, it takes you a

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Speaker 1: moment to really get it, he makes a key distinction

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Speaker 1: that's kind of helpful I think to understanding, and that

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Speaker 1: is he says that in language we have to distinguish

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Speaker 1: between syntax and semantics. So what is syntax, Well, syntax's grammar,

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Speaker 1: it's functional rules, and what is semantics. Semantics actually is

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Speaker 1: content or meaning. So if I were to say, talk

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Speaker 1: about where the vowel or the consonant or the indefinite

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Speaker 1: article goes in a sentence. That's syntax. That's how to

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Speaker 1: arrange the sentence. But if I use the word elephant,

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Speaker 1: it's not the same kind of thing was I'm now

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Speaker 1: referring to something outside the sentence. I'm referring to an

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Speaker 1: actual elephant, and I'm saying that this word elephant designates

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Speaker 1: that thing out there with a big snout and big

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Speaker 1: ears that we call an elephant. So syntax is the

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Speaker 1: grammatical rules, and the semantics is the actual content. And

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Speaker 1: then John Searle tells you why he's telling you this.

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Speaker 1: He goes buy and large. What's going on is that

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Speaker 1: a computer or even AI can do syntax, but it

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Speaker 1: can't do semantics. Calculators do not think mathematically. We think

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Speaker 1: mathematically with the aid of calculators. Similarly, computers don't understand anything.

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Speaker 1: They don't think in that sense. We think with the

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Speaker 1: help of the symbol manipulation that computers and AI can perform.

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Speaker 1: And even the symbol manipulation, as I said, a moment

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Speaker 1: ago is programmed into the computer by human beings. If

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Speaker 1: the computer seems really smart, that's because really smart human

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Speaker 1: beings created it. So in that sense, when you say,

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Speaker 1: let's come back to Deep Blue. Deep Blue defeated Casparov.

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Speaker 1: Do you realize that Deep Rule was programmed by hundreds

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Speaker 1: of chess grandmasters working together. Many of the best chess

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Speaker 1: players in the world helped to create Deep Blue. Their

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Speaker 1: combined knowledge is of course stronger than one guy Casparov,

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Speaker 1: and they were able to program that knowledge into a

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Speaker 1: machine like calculating system. So it's not really quote a

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Speaker 1: machine playing against Kasparov. It is all the programmed information,

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Speaker 1: the deep archive of data, plus the calculating skill that

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Speaker 1: is also programmed into the computer. That's really what defeated

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Speaker 1: Gary Kasparov. Michael Nell wants you to know this here

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456
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Speaker 1: Where where does this really leave us? Where it leaves

457
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: us ultimately? Here is simply to make the point that

458
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: science remains the study of material things that are objective,

459
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 1: but what we call the subjective domain, which is by

460
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: and large the domain of inner experience and feeling and

461
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 1: thoughts and emotions, all of that is kind of outside

462
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: the grasp or at is the full grasp of science.

463
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,479
Speaker 1: The scientific argument against the soul. Remember, we began this

464
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: chapter by talking about is there a soul? And if

465
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: there is a soul, can science understand it or refute it?

466
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: And what we're saying is that science cannot refute it

467
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: because science has no grasp not just of the soul,

468
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: but the entire inner, subjective human being. The scientific quest

469
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: for the soul becomes like one of these pathetic cases

470
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: of looking for the car keys only where the light

471
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: is good. And my point in this chapter here, and

472
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: I'm bringing it to a close, although the next chapter

473
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 1: is very closely connected. We're going to continue talking about

474
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: the mind and the brain, and we're going to come

475
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: to a very startling idea, and that is the idea

476
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: that the mind, far from being just a product of

477
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: the brain, the mind has the ability to physically change

478
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: the brain. So this is what we're going into. I

479
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 1: call the chapters called the Immaterial Self. And I begin

480
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: by noting that dualism. Dualism is the idea that the

481
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: mind of the brain are like two separate things. We

482
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: have a dual experience. We have physical things, which includes

483
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: our body and our brain, and then we have minds.

484
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: Those are that's the immaterial part of ourselves, and that

485
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 1: this immaterial part of ourself. Here's the key point, is

486
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: not only in a way independent of your body. It's

487
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: not subject to the laws of your body or your brain,

488
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: but it's also independent of the laws of nature that

489
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: govern material bodies. This is a very arresting thought that

490
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: your mind does not operate according to any scientific laws.

491
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: Why because it's not material, and the material is all

492
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: that science has the ability to comprehend. Now, in this chapter,

493
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about two proofs of this. One

494
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: is consciousness and the other one is free will. And

495
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: I'm going to show that neither one is reducible to

496
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: any material component at all. And your consciousness and your

497
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: free will operate outside the laws of science and outside

498
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: the laws of nature, and by and large the scientific

499
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: understanding of both is close to zero. We are in

500
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: the same darkness about consciousness and free will as were

501
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: the ancient Greeks who lived in the fifth century BC.

502
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: And the reason is not a criticism of science. It

503
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: shows the limitation of science. Science is very good at

504
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: doing what it does. It is very good at studying

505
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: the world in its material dimension. It is not good

506
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: at studying the immaterial because the immaterial is outside the

507
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 1: orbit of measurement, of weight, of being able to move

508
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: in a physical sense, and therefore science looks at it

509
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,719
Speaker 1: with a certain type of uncomprehending bewilderment, and scientists come

510
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 1: up with very ingenious theories. But you notice that these theories,

511
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: for the most part, go absolutely nowhere. Now. Dualism, to

512
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: remind you, is kind of our everyday experience, right. We

513
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: use dualism all the time. I'm going to make up

514
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 1: my mind to go to a concert. So here I

515
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,479
Speaker 1: imply that I have a mind, and I can make

516
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: up my mind, and then it leads to action in

517
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: which I physically make my way to the concert. Nobody

518
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,719
Speaker 1: says something like my brain circuitry caused me to go

519
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: to the concert. That would be a purely physical explanation.

520
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: My brain circuitry caused me to go to the concert.

521
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: I have brain circuitry. Then I go to the concert.

522
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: But the very fact that I go, well, I made

523
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: a decision to go. I decided to go, implies that

524
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: I have consciousness, I have free will, and that is

525
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 1: independent on my body. I made a decision to go,

526
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 1: and then my body in a sense followed and went

527
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: to the concert. Now, the basic reason that many scientists,

528
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 1: even philosophers, kind of turned against the idea of dualism,

529
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: if you remember, I gave the reason a while ago.

530
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 1: And that's really simple. How can we have minds and bodies?

531
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: And how do they How do they connect with each other?

532
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 1: How does one move the other? Like, how does a

533
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,919
Speaker 1: mind move a body? How does my mind move Let's

534
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 1: say a billiard ball. Can't do it. I need my

535
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: finger to do that. I need my hand to push

536
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 1: the ball. So minds cannot interact with bodies according to science,

537
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 1: because mental things cannot actually move, you know, a physical object.

538
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 1: This is car kind of what made Houdini such a

539
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 1: kind of sensation. He's listen, by my mind, I can

540
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,359
Speaker 1: bend a spoon. So he was in a sense saying

541
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: I can violate the laws of nature. Now I don't

542
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: believe that Houdini could in fact bend a spoon with

543
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 1: his mind. He was more of an illusionist. But that's

544
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: the idea we're talking about. So the philosopher would say

545
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: a mind cannot bend a spoon, and therefore you can't

546
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: have this radical separation of minds and bodies, how will

547
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: the two even interact with each other? But all of

548
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: this has been in a sense called into question by

549
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 1: the science of the last twenty five years, the neuroscience

550
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 1: of the last twenty five years, which shows that minds do,

551
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: in fact, quote bend bodies all the time. So I

552
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 1: want to start by talking about some recent research in

553
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: the last couple of decades on the phenomenon called OCD.

554
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: Dew sometimes tell me she has honey, do you claim

555
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: that you have OCD? Debbie claims she also has add

556
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: and OCD, probably fairly small quantities, but maybe she does

557
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: have a little of it. But here's the point. For

558
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,879
Speaker 1: a long time, the doctor's thought that the best way

559
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 1: to treat OCD is through giving someone some sort of pill,

560
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: some sort of medicine. In other words, change your body,

561
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: because after all, changing your body is also going to

562
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: change your brain, and since your brain is your mind,

563
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: your OCD will be changed or improved in that way.

564
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: But now there's a whole body of research that shows

565
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: that you can actually treat OCD and also related types

566
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:42,280
Speaker 1: of ailments by working on the mind alone. You don't

567
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: touch the body at all. In other words, what you

568
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: do is you cause people, or you get people to

569
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: refocus their mind from the kind of thing that they're

570
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: always focused on onto something else. And you notice that

571
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 1: through this discipline of reforl focusing, don't focus on that,

572
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: focus on this every time you think of that, now

573
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 1: think of this, and you develop this habitually, you realize

574
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: not only that you are modifying your thoughts, but this

575
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 1: is the bombshell aspect of this research. You are physically

576
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: modifying your disordered brain. In other words, you are physically

577
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: modifying the neurons and the neuronal movements in your brain. Now,

578
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: if this seems like a astounding or radical or novel idea,

579
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: the premise of it is actually not new. Right, The

580
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: idea that your mind can affect your body is not new.

581
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: Case in point, the Placebo effect, which is to say,

582
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,439
Speaker 1: I'm feeling a little sick. I take up Placebo. It's

583
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 1: a pill with just a water pill. It doesn't have

584
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 1: any medicine, but I think it does. So I think

585
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:01,359
Speaker 1: it does is my mind. I take the pill, and

586
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 1: since I think it does, my body begins to feel better.

587
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 1: There you go, The mind can reshape the body. There's

588
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 1: also something called you may not have heard of this,

589
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: the no Cibo effects, the opposite of the placebo effect,

590
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: which is this, and that is you wrongly believe that

591
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: you have been physically contaminated, like you've been exposed. Let's

592
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: say to some toxic chemical. You think you've taken a

593
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 1: pill that gives you nausea. In fact you haven't. In fact,

594
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: you've taken a water pill. But because you think that

595
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,800
Speaker 1: the pill that you've taken is bad and gives you nausea,

596
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 1: you start feeling nauseous. There you go. The mind is

597
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 1: again affecting the body. So we know from things that

598
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,439
Speaker 1: have been known for one hundred years or more through

599
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: the Placebo effect and the Cibo effect, that the mind

600
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: does in fact affect the body. But what we're learning

601
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: is how much the changes in the mind can be

602
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 1: used to modify the body, to modify the brain. You

603
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: can actually reprogram your own brain. There's an interesting book

604
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 1: by a psychiatrist, Norman Deutge. It's called The Brain That

605
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: Changes Itself, and he says the doctors are now using

606
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:26,760
Speaker 1: cognitive treatments mind treatments to help children overcome learning disabilities,

607
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: seniors improve their memories, and even paralyzed stroke victims to

608
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 1: move and speak again. And the basic way you do

609
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: it is you train your mind to quote change channels.

610
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 1: This is a very startling idea, but your mind has

611
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: all these channels. Channels are different zones in the brain

612
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 1: that are connected with certain things you do, like language ability.

613
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: And so let's say your language ability is impaired in

614
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: a certain part of your brain. The truth of it

615
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 1: is that through your mind, through mental discipline and mental exercises,

616
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 1: you can actually teach other areas of your brain to

617
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: pick up the functions that are now not being done

618
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 1: by the language area of your brain. So what are

619
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 1: you doing. It's almost like you are rechanneling your brain,

620
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 1: remaking your brain to a small degree, activating new node

621
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 1: centers in your brain. And you're doing all of this

622
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: not by using a needle, not by putting any chemicals

623
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,760
Speaker 1: in your brain. You're doing it solely through the operations

624
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 1: of your mind. Pretty fascinating stuff. And now let me

625
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,399
Speaker 1: talk about and this is probably all I will get

626
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 1: a chance to talk about today. Let me talk about consciousness,

627
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,240
Speaker 1: something that's like right in front of us. It's something

628
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 1: that is part of us, and yet we need to

629
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 1: think about it a little bit because of how mysterious

630
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: it is a lot of times, with genuine knowledge, you're

631
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,839
Speaker 1: taking something that you take for granted, that is part

632
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: of your ordinary experience, and you recognize, you look at

633
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 1: it with a kind of fresh eye of wonder. So

634
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 1: there's nothing more obvious than the fact that we are conscious.

635
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 1: We know about being conscious more than we know about

636
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 1: anything else. We are, in fact, on such comfortable, like

637
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 1: intimate terms with consciousness that every night we give it up,

638
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,839
Speaker 1: like goodbye, consciousness. I'm off to sleep, and you pick

639
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: it right up in the morning, and it doesn't seem

640
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: odd to you. It seems very normal. I gave up

641
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 1: my consciousness, I got it back. Whoa And Yet, writes

642
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 1: the cognitive scientist. Psychologist Stephen Pinker asked what is the

643
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Speaker 1: scientific explanation of consciousness? His answer quote, we have no

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Speaker 1: scientific explanation. The philosopher John Locke knew the consciousness is

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Speaker 1: a certain type of a mystery. In one of his

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Speaker 1: great books, called The Essay Concerning Human Understanding, Locke gives

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Speaker 1: us a thought experiment of a prince and a cobbler,

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Speaker 1: and he says, the two of them are getting ready

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Speaker 1: to retire for the night. But while they're sleeping, the

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Speaker 1: contents of their consciousness gets switched, so one gets the

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Speaker 1: consciousness of the other, and vice versa. And the question

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Speaker 1: Locke is asking is that when they wake up in

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Speaker 1: the morning, are they the same man? And Locke says, yes,

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Speaker 1: they're the same man. Both of them have the same

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Speaker 1: physical bodies, and quite honestly, from the point of view

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Speaker 1: of science, there is no change at all. Everything about

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Speaker 1: them is exactly the same. But then says Locke, they

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Speaker 1: might be the same man, but are they the same person?

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Speaker 1: And here Locke gives the opposite answer. He says, no,

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Speaker 1: they're not the same person, because each now has the

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Speaker 1: memories and the inner consciousness of the other. So the

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Speaker 1: prince has in fact become the cobbler, and the cobbler

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Speaker 1: has in fact become the prince. And so here you

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Speaker 1: begin to see Locke wrestling with this issue of whether

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Speaker 1: or not consciousness is the key aspect that establishes our

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Speaker 1: individual identity. Now, consciousness is something that philosophers try to

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Speaker 1: understand today by looking at the example of zombies. We're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about not the zombie of the horror films,

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Speaker 1: but the philosophical zombie. So what is a philosophical zombie. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's a real person, but the real person has no

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Speaker 1: inner life. In other words, the zombie is a material

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Speaker 1: replica of a person. The physical structure is the same,

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Speaker 1: it matches the human beings sell by cell. Not only that,

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Speaker 1: but the zombie acts in a manner that's indistinguishable from

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Speaker 1: human beings. The zombie can, at least in our philosophical example,

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Speaker 1: the philosophical zombie can go to a movie. The philosophical

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Speaker 1: zombie can get on a plane, eat a chili dog,

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Speaker 1: cheer at a baseball game, snore at night. And now,

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Speaker 1: no one has been able to create such a zombie.

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Speaker 1: But the philosophical question is are such creatures really possible?

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Speaker 1: And if they are, then it means that we have

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Speaker 1: a creature that is identical to a human being, but

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Speaker 1: yet lacking any human consciousness at all. And the zombie

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Speaker 1: example I'm giving is obviously theoretical. It's just an experiment

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Speaker 1: for the mind. But the reason it's an unnerving experiment

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Speaker 1: is that when you put a human being under a

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Speaker 1: microscope or under a scan and you're looking for consciousness,

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Speaker 1: here's what you find. You find nothing if you ask

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Speaker 1: a brain scientist, am I conscious? The truth of it

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Speaker 1: is the brain scientist doesn't know. They have no way

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Speaker 1: to know unless you tell them, and so there are

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Speaker 1: no physical facts. There are no scientific laws that can

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Speaker 1: lead to a prediction or expectation that there should be consciousness,

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Speaker 1: and consciousness doesn't even have any evolutionary explanation neither. The

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Speaker 1: psychologist Nicholas Humphrey, in one of his books, says, well,

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Speaker 1: we are We need consciousness because we need to survive

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Speaker 1: in the world, and consciousness tells us how we can

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Speaker 1: cooperate with other human beings and get food and avoid predators.

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Speaker 1: This turns out to be a completely bogused explanation. Why,

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Speaker 1: because countless creatures do this without consciousness. Amivas, bacteria, insects, bees,

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Speaker 1: ants cooperate. Think of ants. They are able to form

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Speaker 1: ant societies. They're able to invade, They're able to construct,

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Speaker 1: They're able to build little ant cities. They're able to

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Speaker 1: get food. They're able to drag a grain of rice

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Speaker 1: in which many ants will get around it and drag

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Speaker 1: it all together. And yet, as far as we know,

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Speaker 1: ants are not doing it in any kind of conscious

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Speaker 1: way or through any kind of conscious planning. So the

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Speaker 1: point is you don't need consciousness to do any of

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Speaker 1: those things. You might say, well, we need consciousness to

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Speaker 1: understand other people. Actually no, because you don't have access

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Speaker 1: to anybody else's consciousness. If you are trying to make

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Speaker 1: a judgment about somebody else, you're going to have to

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Speaker 1: do it based upon what they say or what they do.

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Speaker 1: You don't have any access to their inner mental state.

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Speaker 1: And so the point here is that consciousness is, from

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Speaker 1: a scientific point of view, extremely elusive, and this is

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Speaker 1: what has caused some people, including the philosopher Daniel Dennett,

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Speaker 1: to argue that consciousness does not exist. What At first

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Speaker 1: when I saw this, I thought this is some kind

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Speaker 1: of a philosopher's joke. But I've met Daniel Dennett. This

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Speaker 1: is one of the most serious, in a dull way

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Speaker 1: people you've ever met, no sense of humor at all.

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Speaker 1: He's not joking. He is basically saying that consciousness is

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Speaker 1: an illusion. So what he's really saying is that we

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Speaker 1: are zombies. We are zombies because we have this outer life,

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Speaker 1: we do things, but we don't have any consciousness, and

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Speaker 1: if we think we do, that's the illusion. Right there.

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Speaker 1: We are under the mistake and impression that we are

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Speaker 1: conscious even though we're not. Now, this to me is

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Speaker 1: so preposterous that it's preposterous for the simple reason that

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Speaker 1: I am about as sure that I'm conscious as I

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Speaker 1: am of anything else that I know in the world.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I need the consciousness to be aware of

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Speaker 1: anything else. So to tell me that my consciousness is

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Speaker 1: itself an illusion, what does that even mean? How can you,

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Speaker 1: even with a straight face, say that. And I want

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Speaker 1: to argue that Daniel Dennett knows that he's conscious, He

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Speaker 1: doesn't really think it's an illudie, but he's forced into

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Speaker 1: this position because if you take the view that the

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Speaker 1: scientific perspective on reality is the only reality, and then

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Speaker 1: you can't find consciousness. Where is it under the microscope?

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Speaker 1: I don't see it, I can't experience it, I can't

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Speaker 1: weigh it. Where is it? I got to say, well,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't exist. It's an illusion. It's not even there.

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Speaker 1: But here's the problem with that kind of view, and

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Speaker 1: it's this our human consciousness, our subjective awareness of ourselves

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Speaker 1: and the world, that's a fact of nature. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that is about as real as planets or rocks or

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Speaker 1: trees in fact. It is so real that our consciousness

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Speaker 1: is the venue. It is the fact inside of which

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Speaker 1: all the other facts are located. If you think about it,

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Speaker 1: our consciousness is our window to reality, not just by

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Speaker 1: the way the reality of the world out there, but

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Speaker 1: the reality of our own existence. We recognize our consciousness

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Speaker 1: because we're unmistakably aware of it, and not only that,

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Speaker 1: through it, we're aware of everything else. There is kind

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Speaker 1: of no way to understand consciousness from the outside, because

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00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 1: consciousness operates entirely on the inside. So here's the point.

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Speaker 1: Our consciousness is real, it's a central feature of our

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Speaker 1: identity and our humanity, and yet it operates outside of

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Speaker 1: any recognized or known physical law. Consciousness is clearly not

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Speaker 1: part of our body. It's not even obvious to me

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Speaker 1: our consciousness is quote in the body, meaning located there.

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Speaker 1: And I say that why, because with anything else, I

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Speaker 1: can pinpoint where it's located. Where your finger's located, right

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00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:03,720
Speaker 1: down here, where your toes located, right down with my feet,

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Speaker 1: where's your consciousness located? I can't really say, I don't

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Speaker 1: really know. It could very well be that consciousness is

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00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 1: just transmitted through the body. It requires the body, but

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Speaker 1: it's not in that sense physically in the body. It

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Speaker 1: could be that the body is a kind of receiver

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Speaker 1: or transmitter of consciousness, maybe even a generator of it.

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Speaker 1: But nevertheless, the consciousness itself is separate from the body.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting, and we're going to set that to the

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Speaker 1: side for a moment and turn to free will again.

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Speaker 1: My goal is to show, and I'm only going to

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Speaker 1: begin to do this here and I'll pick it up

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00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:51,359
Speaker 1: the next time, is that free will, like consciousness, operates

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00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:55,839
Speaker 1: outside of any known scientific law. Except with free will,

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00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 1: we go beyond consciousness. With consciousness, you can't see it,

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00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 1: you can't identify any law that operates on it. Free will,

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00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 1: on the other hand, appears to contradict all scientific law.

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Speaker 1: Why because scientific laws are based on the idea that

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00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 1: the entire universe is a closed system. It's a closed

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Speaker 1: system of material objects that operate in various relationships to

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Speaker 1: each other. The idea of the closed system is that

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Speaker 1: nothing can be found outside the system. And therefore, if

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Speaker 1: we operate in a closed system, how does free will

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00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:36,319
Speaker 1: even work? What is the place for free will in

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00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 1: this closed scientific system? I'm going to argue there's no

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00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 1: place for it. And therefore the fact that we have

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00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 1: free will and we're going to establish independently why we do,

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Speaker 1: shows that our human existence has an aspect to it.

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Speaker 1: This is the free will aspect that functions not only

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00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:03,879
Speaker 1: outside of scientific laws, but in flagrant contradiction to them,

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00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 1: and therefore it must come from a place. I don't

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00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 1: even mean a physical place, but a source that is

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Speaker 1: outside the bounds of science itself.

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Speaker 2: Subscribe to the Dinese Desusa podcast on Apple, Google, and Spotify,

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00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:27,840
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