1 00:00:02,710 --> 00:00:04,110 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:06,710 --> 00:00:09,420 Speaker 2: Welcome to I Wish You Could Hear This, where we 3 00:00:09,500 --> 00:00:13,220 Speaker 2: explore great stories and simple proven steps to help you 4 00:00:13,340 --> 00:00:15,940 Speaker 2: thrive in life, faith, and relationships. 5 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: In our research, we've heard hundreds of hope-filled strategies for marriage, parenting, leadership, 6 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: and life that are grounded in science and consistent with 7 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:26,790 Speaker 1: biblical truth, and now you can hear them too. 8 00:00:31,670 --> 00:00:32,750 Speaker 2: I'm Shanti Feldhahn. 9 00:00:32,810 --> 00:00:33,630 Speaker 1: And I'm Jeff Feldhahn. 10 00:00:34,170 --> 00:00:37,570 Speaker 2: Most of us can probably identify something we'd like to 11 00:00:37,610 --> 00:00:40,569 Speaker 2: change in our marriage. Maybe we keep having the same 12 00:00:40,650 --> 00:00:43,850 Speaker 2: argument or we've gotten into a rut of hurt feelings. 13 00:00:44,310 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 2: Maybe we simply feel like we're disconnected after years of 14 00:00:47,990 --> 00:00:51,860 Speaker 2: prioritizing the kids or work. Or maybe we just want 15 00:00:51,900 --> 00:00:55,100 Speaker 2: to have more fun together. In our research, we've found 16 00:00:55,140 --> 00:00:58,910 Speaker 2: that making our marriages better can often happen with some 17 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,660 Speaker 2: small practical changes that make a big difference. That is 18 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 2: what we are going to be covering in this episode 19 00:01:06,700 --> 00:01:07,740 Speaker 2: of I Wish You Could Hear This. 20 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:16,339 Speaker 1: I'm really glad that we are actually going to be 21 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:20,820 Speaker 1: tackling this. Because so often people have this idea that 22 00:01:21,500 --> 00:01:26,500 Speaker 1: creating a good marriage is complex, requires lots of hard work. 23 00:01:27,170 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 2: Like I need a PhD in psychology. 24 00:01:29,660 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 1: To have a good marriage. But what we've learned is 25 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:35,820 Speaker 1: that it's oftentimes a lot of the little things that 26 00:01:35,940 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: really do matter. So help us, help our listeners understand 27 00:01:39,900 --> 00:01:41,709 Speaker 1: what are we going to be unpacking here for? 28 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,750 Speaker 2: What are we going to do today? So basically, we're 29 00:01:44,790 --> 00:01:47,910 Speaker 2: going to discuss six steps that we've seen really matter 30 00:01:47,930 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 2: to create a great marriage. Now, There are plenty more 31 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:52,970 Speaker 2: steps that we could get into, and we're going to 32 00:01:52,980 --> 00:01:55,250 Speaker 2: narrow it down from our research just to the six. 33 00:01:55,790 --> 00:01:59,970 Speaker 2: And often we focus on content and we will, you know, 34 00:02:00,130 --> 00:02:03,550 Speaker 2: in this episode, but we're also going to take some 35 00:02:03,670 --> 00:02:06,430 Speaker 2: extra time and focus on the process, like the how, 36 00:02:07,010 --> 00:02:09,870 Speaker 2: and that can be just as important. So we're not 37 00:02:09,889 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 2: going to get to all six steps in one episode, 38 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:14,580 Speaker 2: I don't think. So what we're going to do, what 39 00:02:14,620 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 2: we're going to plan to do is to tackle two 40 00:02:17,060 --> 00:02:20,410 Speaker 2: or three Okay. Of those six steps today. And then 41 00:02:20,460 --> 00:02:22,620 Speaker 2: we will come back with the final ones, whichever ones 42 00:02:22,660 --> 00:02:26,100 Speaker 2: we did get to, in part two. Great. 43 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: Okay. Sounds like a plan. 44 00:02:27,460 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 2: Okay. 45 00:02:27,860 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: I like the process. 46 00:02:29,300 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 2: There we go. 47 00:02:29,860 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: So step one. Step one. So step one is learn 48 00:02:34,620 --> 00:02:35,380 Speaker 1: from role models. 49 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:36,460 Speaker 2: Okay. 50 00:02:36,500 --> 00:02:40,460 Speaker 1: So we need to unpack that because the basic premise 51 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:42,859 Speaker 1: is that, you know, let's say that you're on your 52 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,950 Speaker 1: varsity basketball or volleyball team back when you were in 53 00:02:47,010 --> 00:02:49,790 Speaker 1: high school. Yeah. And you want to go from good 54 00:02:49,810 --> 00:02:53,630 Speaker 1: to great. What is it that you do in order 55 00:02:53,690 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: to accomplish that? So let's think back. So in my case, 56 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: when I was in high school, I loved baseball. But 57 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: I didn't have a baseball card with Tom Gundry on 58 00:03:04,180 --> 00:03:04,580 Speaker 1: the card. 59 00:03:05,380 --> 00:03:06,370 Speaker 2: Who's Tom Gundry? 60 00:03:06,530 --> 00:03:10,750 Speaker 1: Tom Gundry was on my varsity baseball team. Oh, okay. 61 00:03:10,770 --> 00:03:11,430 Speaker 2: So not a pro. 62 00:03:11,610 --> 00:03:14,990 Speaker 1: Arguably the best player on the team. 63 00:03:15,300 --> 00:03:16,750 Speaker 2: So somebody you looked up to. 64 00:03:16,790 --> 00:03:19,750 Speaker 1: Correct, correct. He was a senior when I was a junior, 65 00:03:20,050 --> 00:03:22,590 Speaker 1: and he was really good. But I didn't have a 66 00:03:22,610 --> 00:03:26,060 Speaker 1: baseball card of his. Instead, I had baseball cards of 67 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:30,779 Speaker 1: George Brett or Johnny Bench. And now, for the old-timers 68 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:35,150 Speaker 1: like me out there, those were two of the best. 69 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:39,410 Speaker 1: hitters in Major League Baseball in the 1970s and 80s. Okay. 70 00:03:39,850 --> 00:03:44,670 Speaker 2: So these were the people that you wanted to emulate. 71 00:03:44,710 --> 00:03:45,150 Speaker 1: Correct. 72 00:03:45,210 --> 00:03:48,580 Speaker 2: You were looking at more specifically than Tom Pendry. 73 00:03:48,620 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: Yep. I watched the games that they played in. I mean, 74 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: this was before our modern internet, so I couldn't just 75 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,410 Speaker 1: YouTube videos that they were in. So I had to 76 00:03:58,530 --> 00:04:03,750 Speaker 1: actually watch the games or I read baseball magazines or 77 00:04:03,830 --> 00:04:09,090 Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated about them, especially when they would discuss their 78 00:04:09,650 --> 00:04:14,230 Speaker 1: theories on hitting or what they did or their training. 79 00:04:14,310 --> 00:04:15,370 Speaker 2: Because these were the best. 80 00:04:15,550 --> 00:04:17,430 Speaker 1: They were, in my mind, they were the best. I 81 00:04:17,470 --> 00:04:21,190 Speaker 1: studied them. I wanted to be like them. So if 82 00:04:21,290 --> 00:04:24,490 Speaker 1: we want a great marriage, we need to study the 83 00:04:24,529 --> 00:04:28,650 Speaker 1: people who have great marriages. I mean, it's how we learn. 84 00:04:28,710 --> 00:04:30,670 Speaker 1: It's how we get from good.... 85 00:04:32,660 --> 00:04:36,700 Speaker 2: To great that makes total sense and it's interesting because 86 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:41,349 Speaker 2: it's a slightly different process than maybe what we're used 87 00:04:41,430 --> 00:04:43,470 Speaker 2: to and so this is why this is step one 88 00:04:43,529 --> 00:04:47,070 Speaker 2: for us is that it is very easy when you 89 00:04:47,110 --> 00:04:50,770 Speaker 2: start getting into difficulty in marriage you know and maybe 90 00:04:50,810 --> 00:04:52,850 Speaker 2: you don't have a bad marriage maybe you just want 91 00:04:52,870 --> 00:04:55,270 Speaker 2: to make it better but it's easy to go okay 92 00:04:55,310 --> 00:04:58,690 Speaker 2: what are we doing wrong right like What are the issues? Like, 93 00:04:58,730 --> 00:05:00,910 Speaker 2: you go into counseling, and we're fans of counseling. 94 00:05:00,930 --> 00:05:01,270 Speaker 1: We are. 95 00:05:01,310 --> 00:05:04,410 Speaker 2: Like, if there's a need for it, absolutely. But it's 96 00:05:04,550 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 2: very easy in all of that process to, like, dig 97 00:05:09,190 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 2: into the problems, which you need to in order to 98 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:14,980 Speaker 2: surface them, figure out what's happening. 99 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:16,500 Speaker 1: And how to do it different. 100 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:19,100 Speaker 2: Right, and how to fix them. But we often. 101 00:05:21,270 --> 00:05:24,419 Speaker 2: Don't necessarily recognize that, like, if you have a problem 102 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:29,060 Speaker 2: with your swing in baseball, it's not just about what 103 00:05:29,100 --> 00:05:31,700 Speaker 2: you're doing wrong. You also need to know what to 104 00:05:31,740 --> 00:05:34,599 Speaker 2: do right. You need to know what you're going for. 105 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,979 Speaker 2: And so that's the reason that we ended up researching 106 00:05:39,020 --> 00:05:43,099 Speaker 2: this and studying the happiest marriages. We wanted to figure 107 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 2: out what the role models are doing, just like you 108 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 2: wanted to figure out what Johnny Bench does. Exactly. 109 00:05:50,860 --> 00:05:55,540 Speaker 1: And I'm hopeful that at the end of this time 110 00:05:55,820 --> 00:05:59,740 Speaker 1: that we have on today's podcast, that people will take 111 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:03,170 Speaker 1: this information and go, I can do a few of 112 00:06:03,210 --> 00:06:05,850 Speaker 1: those things and I can change things. So I'm not 113 00:06:05,870 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: going to go into what my... batting average was in 114 00:06:09,460 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: my senior year. But let's just say I didn't go 115 00:06:13,460 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 1: on and play college baseball or the major leagues. So 116 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,170 Speaker 1: it really wasn't that great as much as I studied. 117 00:06:21,670 --> 00:06:26,390 Speaker 1: In these cases, we're confident if you kind of apply 118 00:06:26,450 --> 00:06:29,250 Speaker 1: yourself to these things, the role models, as well as 119 00:06:29,290 --> 00:06:33,219 Speaker 1: the other things we're going to be discussing. your batting 120 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:34,660 Speaker 1: average is going to improve. 121 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,860 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I think of the habits that you 122 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 2: and I have picked up from, like, studying the role models. Like, 123 00:06:42,300 --> 00:06:46,490 Speaker 2: I honestly, I feel like this research project, when we 124 00:06:46,670 --> 00:06:49,730 Speaker 2: studied the happiest marriages, that was one of our most 125 00:06:49,950 --> 00:06:53,050 Speaker 2: fun research projects. Why don't you explain. 126 00:06:52,670 --> 00:06:56,830 Speaker 1: What we did? So it was great in that whenever 127 00:06:56,890 --> 00:07:01,289 Speaker 1: we had a live speaking event in a community, where 128 00:07:01,310 --> 00:07:03,770 Speaker 1: there was going to be a marriage conference, as part 129 00:07:03,810 --> 00:07:06,830 Speaker 1: of our agreement with the organizers, we would ask them 130 00:07:06,930 --> 00:07:12,070 Speaker 1: to identify four, five, six couples within their community that 131 00:07:12,110 --> 00:07:16,250 Speaker 1: they felt had the happiest marriages and to get those 132 00:07:16,330 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: couples to agree to sit down for an hour or 133 00:07:19,260 --> 00:07:22,740 Speaker 1: so with us while we ask them questions. And it 134 00:07:22,780 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: was really awesome because we got to meet lots and 135 00:07:25,700 --> 00:07:29,990 Speaker 1: lots of great couples and be inspired by them. But 136 00:07:30,490 --> 00:07:34,290 Speaker 1: one of the fascinating things that came out of that 137 00:07:34,590 --> 00:07:37,830 Speaker 1: early on was our recognition that when we would ask them, 138 00:07:38,270 --> 00:07:41,660 Speaker 1: what is it that makes you so happy? Oftentimes the 139 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: couples couldn't specifically identify what it was. They would talk 140 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: in generalities like we have great communication, but they really 141 00:07:50,180 --> 00:07:53,250 Speaker 1: couldn't say how that communication. 142 00:07:53,870 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 2: What that meant. 143 00:07:54,750 --> 00:07:56,010 Speaker 1: Exactly what it meant. 144 00:07:56,150 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 2: Jeff would often ask. what does that mean? And they'd 145 00:07:58,500 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 2: be like, uh, we communicate well. 146 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: Just say it a different way. 147 00:08:03,100 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 2: And we, and one of the things that we found 148 00:08:05,260 --> 00:08:07,130 Speaker 2: just for everybody listening, one of the things that we 149 00:08:07,190 --> 00:08:10,730 Speaker 2: found is that they couldn't articulate it, but they would 150 00:08:10,770 --> 00:08:14,790 Speaker 2: describe it just using different words and they wouldn't even realize, 151 00:08:14,810 --> 00:08:18,220 Speaker 2: oh wait, that's a, that's a habit. That's actually a 152 00:08:18,380 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 2: thing that we do. They, they wouldn't even necessarily have 153 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:25,210 Speaker 2: articulated it, but After a while, Jeff would be like, 154 00:08:25,450 --> 00:08:28,230 Speaker 2: I think we've heard this 27 times. I think this 155 00:08:28,450 --> 00:08:32,750 Speaker 2: one thing here is important. This is how, for example, 156 00:08:33,500 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 2: one of the content pieces that we share at our 157 00:08:36,340 --> 00:08:39,660 Speaker 2: marriage events came about that we ended up finding it 158 00:08:40,100 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 2: where we realized that, oh, wow, in these marriages, these 159 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 2: marriages that had gone often from being very difficult to 160 00:08:49,450 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 2: being the happiest have that we recognize that there was 161 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 2: a lot of verbal affirmation. And a lot of us, 162 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:02,370 Speaker 2: we think like thoughts that are affirming and praise, think 163 00:09:02,390 --> 00:09:04,330 Speaker 2: of the things that somebody is worthy of praise for, 164 00:09:04,390 --> 00:09:07,490 Speaker 2: but we often don't say them. And we recognize that 165 00:09:07,530 --> 00:09:12,670 Speaker 2: the wives in particular were saying thank you pretty frequently 166 00:09:12,790 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 2: to their husbands, like literally the words thank you. They 167 00:09:15,460 --> 00:09:18,630 Speaker 2: were noticing what their husband did and saying thank you. And, 168 00:09:18,750 --> 00:09:21,270 Speaker 2: of course, everybody needs that, but we just were really 169 00:09:21,429 --> 00:09:24,710 Speaker 2: struck by how often we heard that and ended up 170 00:09:24,830 --> 00:09:28,170 Speaker 2: testing all these things, including that one, on the big 171 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:32,900 Speaker 2: nationally representative survey. And, poof, wow, like that's how we 172 00:09:32,940 --> 00:09:37,540 Speaker 2: discovered that for men, thank you is often the emotional 173 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:38,260 Speaker 2: equivalent of. 174 00:09:38,220 --> 00:09:41,500 Speaker 1: A woman hearing I love you. So one of the 175 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:45,260 Speaker 1: things that I think is relevant in this in role 176 00:09:45,300 --> 00:09:49,390 Speaker 1: models and learning from role models is– You can learn 177 00:09:49,429 --> 00:09:53,179 Speaker 1: a lot from books. I mean, we write books. I 178 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: hope people learn a lot from books. You can learn 179 00:09:56,020 --> 00:10:00,150 Speaker 1: a lot from listening to podcasts. Yeah. A podcast like this. 180 00:10:00,190 --> 00:10:00,650 Speaker 2: Like this one. 181 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:11,140 Speaker 1: I don't think that there's a total substitute, though, with 182 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: living in community with other people. Especially individuals who you admire. 183 00:10:18,059 --> 00:10:18,339 Speaker 2: Yeah. 184 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:24,220 Speaker 1: You see as having good marriages. Because honestly, you're going 185 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,460 Speaker 1: to need to see the times when perhaps that couple 186 00:10:28,460 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 1: is not doing really well. 187 00:10:30,460 --> 00:10:32,300 Speaker 2: Like when they're griping at each other. 188 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,060 Speaker 1: Correct. Oh, they do that too. And how do they 189 00:10:35,100 --> 00:10:41,410 Speaker 1: resolve those situations? And you don't get that from necessarily 190 00:10:41,770 --> 00:10:44,650 Speaker 1: just a book or just a podcast or watching a video. 191 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,580 Speaker 1: You get that from being in relationship with someone. So 192 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: I just encourage anyone out there listening to this, do that. 193 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:54,070 Speaker 2: Do that. 194 00:10:54,140 --> 00:10:54,949 Speaker 1: Find those people. 195 00:10:54,970 --> 00:10:56,810 Speaker 2: That's a good step one. You know, it's interesting that 196 00:10:56,830 --> 00:10:58,690 Speaker 2: you say that before we move on to step two. 197 00:10:59,070 --> 00:11:02,790 Speaker 2: It's interesting you say that because, you know, Dr. Jim 198 00:11:02,809 --> 00:11:06,209 Speaker 2: Sells and I just released last year the book When 199 00:11:06,270 --> 00:11:10,010 Speaker 2: Hurting People Come to Church, right? And it's basically the 200 00:11:10,050 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 2: short version for everybody to know is it's essentially sort 201 00:11:12,820 --> 00:11:15,990 Speaker 2: of a, a vision casting for the church of how 202 00:11:16,110 --> 00:11:21,189 Speaker 2: can we, as a church, really step into the mental 203 00:11:21,230 --> 00:11:25,310 Speaker 2: and emotional health crisis and relationship issues, et cetera, without 204 00:11:25,830 --> 00:11:29,050 Speaker 2: feeling like we have to just refer everything out to 205 00:11:29,070 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 2: a counselor. And hey, like I said, we're fans of 206 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 2: when clinicians are needed, when extra skills development is needed, 207 00:11:36,820 --> 00:11:40,980 Speaker 2: that's awesome. But you really need people to walk alongside. 208 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,420 Speaker 2: And in marriage, one of the things that Jim Sells says, 209 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,300 Speaker 2: because he's a clinical psychologist, he does a lot of 210 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:53,719 Speaker 2: really complex family counseling, and he says constantly that when 211 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 2: he sees marriages in trouble, one of the most important 212 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:00,210 Speaker 2: things that they're not doing that they need to be 213 00:12:00,250 --> 00:12:03,830 Speaker 2: doing that he literally prescribes for them is he says, 214 00:12:03,990 --> 00:12:07,780 Speaker 2: go find a friend with a happy marriage and Or 215 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,210 Speaker 2: at least just a healthy marriage, like a good, normal 216 00:12:10,270 --> 00:12:13,350 Speaker 2: marriage that you can go have dinner with every Thursday 217 00:12:13,410 --> 00:12:13,870 Speaker 2: for a month. 218 00:12:14,470 --> 00:12:18,150 Speaker 1: And that, I love that because, let me just say 219 00:12:18,309 --> 00:12:21,290 Speaker 1: to the average person out there, if there is a 220 00:12:21,309 --> 00:12:24,050 Speaker 1: couple that you've seen in your church, you don't really 221 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:28,559 Speaker 1: know them well, ask them. Could you take them to dinner? 222 00:12:28,620 --> 00:12:31,219 Speaker 1: Have them over for dinner or something and just say, look, 223 00:12:31,260 --> 00:12:34,660 Speaker 1: we're not asking you to be our counselors, but we 224 00:12:34,700 --> 00:12:37,709 Speaker 1: want to learn something. What is it that you guys 225 00:12:38,030 --> 00:12:41,050 Speaker 1: do that makes you so happy? And we'd just love 226 00:12:41,090 --> 00:12:43,429 Speaker 1: to spend an hour or two with you. And if 227 00:12:43,470 --> 00:12:46,090 Speaker 1: you don't mind, then we'd like to ask you some questions. 228 00:12:46,730 --> 00:12:47,770 Speaker 1: As simple as that. 229 00:12:47,910 --> 00:12:52,590 Speaker 2: So many married couples would love to be asked, especially 230 00:12:52,610 --> 00:12:55,829 Speaker 2: you and I have been doing focus group with younger people, 231 00:12:55,890 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 2: with singles, because of the whole dating conversation. That's another topic, 232 00:12:59,940 --> 00:13:03,410 Speaker 2: the dating recession podcast that we did. And so we 233 00:13:03,429 --> 00:13:07,650 Speaker 2: did some focus groups, and the singles and sort of 234 00:13:07,700 --> 00:13:10,819 Speaker 2: the Gen Z in general, not just singles but like 235 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:16,900 Speaker 2: young couples, they are looking actively would love a mentor. 236 00:13:17,340 --> 00:13:19,620 Speaker 2: Actively would love it. Now, that doesn't mean you have 237 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:21,500 Speaker 2: to be young. Like you could be in your 50s 238 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:23,020 Speaker 2: and have difficulty in your marriage. 239 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, of course. 240 00:13:23,980 --> 00:13:26,700 Speaker 2: You might find a couple in your church who's 40 241 00:13:26,700 --> 00:13:29,540 Speaker 2: and sit down with them. But it's the idea. 242 00:13:29,860 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. 243 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 2: Of be willing. 244 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:32,500 Speaker 1: Right. So that's the role models. 245 00:13:32,620 --> 00:13:33,300 Speaker 2: That was step one. 246 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:34,470 Speaker 1: Yeah. So step two. 247 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 2: So what's steps two? 248 00:13:35,420 --> 00:13:39,980 Speaker 1: You take a few of the little habits and you 249 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: use them and you do them consistently. Yep. In your marriage. Yep. So. 250 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:51,340 Speaker 2: This is one of these things that is easy to like, oh, okay. 251 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:52,059 Speaker 2: I know that. 252 00:13:52,220 --> 00:13:52,540 Speaker 1: Okay. 253 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,350 Speaker 2: Check the box. I'll... I'll, you know, I'll do that sometimes. 254 00:13:56,390 --> 00:14:00,829 Speaker 2: And it's like, no, like, no, like when you see 255 00:14:01,730 --> 00:14:05,590 Speaker 2: that this couple, for example, like let's just say you 256 00:14:05,630 --> 00:14:08,670 Speaker 2: have been going to dinner on Thursday nights with a 257 00:14:08,690 --> 00:14:11,910 Speaker 2: couple and you notice that they can get sideways with 258 00:14:11,970 --> 00:14:15,490 Speaker 2: each other, but that one of them or both of them, 259 00:14:15,710 --> 00:14:19,330 Speaker 2: maybe their thing is they take a beat. Take a 260 00:14:19,330 --> 00:14:23,370 Speaker 2: deep breath. They don't respond in a way. They're not triggered. 261 00:14:23,430 --> 00:14:27,010 Speaker 2: They stop themselves. And you may think, oh, yeah, yeah, 262 00:14:27,210 --> 00:14:31,770 Speaker 2: let's not get triggered and get sideways. And that's all 263 00:14:31,850 --> 00:14:35,130 Speaker 2: you do is you think about it and you don't 264 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,380 Speaker 2: consistently go, okay, in every interaction, not just with my spouse, 265 00:14:40,300 --> 00:14:43,980 Speaker 2: but in every interaction with that colleague that drives me nuts, 266 00:14:44,580 --> 00:14:46,580 Speaker 2: I'm going to stop, take a beat, take a breath. 267 00:14:46,620 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 2: I'm going to practice that. consistently. And that one thing 268 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,460 Speaker 2: is what we need for anything in life to thrive 269 00:14:56,500 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 2: in life, but especially for the most important relationship in 270 00:15:01,020 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 2: our lives, which is our marriage. 271 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:08,810 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, we often talk about movies and culture, 272 00:15:08,950 --> 00:15:13,450 Speaker 1: what we've been kind of trained to believe how things work. 273 00:15:14,420 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 2: Especially when it comes to intimacy. 274 00:15:16,660 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: We often talk about that one. But in the movies, 275 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:25,390 Speaker 1: we always see these big romantic gestures. And it feels, 276 00:15:25,750 --> 00:15:29,950 Speaker 1: I'm just saying this from a guy's standpoint, it feels 277 00:15:30,290 --> 00:15:33,690 Speaker 1: almost like a bridge too far. That it can be paralyzing. 278 00:15:34,150 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: Because it feels like, gosh, there's such big things happening. 279 00:15:38,910 --> 00:15:41,290 Speaker 1: that I've got to do in order to make her happy. 280 00:15:41,590 --> 00:15:42,110 Speaker 2: Oh, interesting. 281 00:15:42,170 --> 00:15:48,530 Speaker 1: That it just kind of immobilizes me from taking anything. 282 00:15:48,550 --> 00:15:49,070 Speaker 2: Any action. 283 00:15:49,270 --> 00:15:53,450 Speaker 1: Exactly. And so what I think is really important about 284 00:15:53,490 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: this step is that we're not talking about those big 285 00:15:57,270 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: romantic gestures. Those are great. You won't complain. 286 00:16:01,060 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 2: Good point. 287 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:05,980 Speaker 1: We're talking about small things that can move the needle. 288 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:11,710 Speaker 1: But the issue is, That they need to be consistently done. 289 00:16:11,730 --> 00:16:12,070 Speaker 2: Done. 290 00:16:12,150 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: Now, our daughter's pastor. Yes. Why don't you share that 291 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:17,460 Speaker 1: quote that we both love. 292 00:16:17,580 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh. Moe Huggins. Our daughter's pastor, who's the 293 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:26,220 Speaker 2: one who married her and Ben, you know, as of today, 294 00:16:26,300 --> 00:16:29,900 Speaker 2: it's almost seven months, I think. Yeah. Getting really close, 295 00:16:30,300 --> 00:16:32,990 Speaker 2: which is crazy. I don't know how that happened. Anyway, 296 00:16:33,490 --> 00:16:37,330 Speaker 2: but he actually... Mo said something, Pastor Mo said something 297 00:16:37,570 --> 00:16:41,550 Speaker 2: that I thought was so profound. It was basically, and 298 00:16:41,570 --> 00:16:43,830 Speaker 2: I'm not going to get exactly right, but he said 299 00:16:44,210 --> 00:16:50,369 Speaker 2: building a thriving life and building a life in Christ 300 00:16:51,110 --> 00:16:54,790 Speaker 2: and living a God-honoring life and having a good marriage 301 00:16:54,810 --> 00:16:58,530 Speaker 2: and all those things, it's not about doing the amazing 302 00:16:58,610 --> 00:17:05,180 Speaker 2: things occasionally. Hmm. but doing the simple things consistently. 303 00:17:05,580 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: I mean, that is so important. 304 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 2: It's not about doing the amazing things occasionally, but doing 305 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,660 Speaker 2: the simple things consistently. 306 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:20,950 Speaker 1: You know, we know this. We know this principle. I mean, 307 00:17:20,970 --> 00:17:24,870 Speaker 1: think of it. I mean, I have spent a good 308 00:17:24,950 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 1: portion of my adult life, teenage life also, but in... Physical, 309 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:37,780 Speaker 1: wanting to be physically kind of in shape, trying to 310 00:17:37,980 --> 00:17:40,620 Speaker 1: stay in shape, get in shape, all of those things. 311 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:41,740 Speaker 2: I'm not going to ask you to tell everybody how 312 00:17:41,770 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 2: many push-ups you do every day. 313 00:17:42,740 --> 00:17:44,290 Speaker 1: No, no, we're not going to go there. But he 314 00:17:44,310 --> 00:17:47,390 Speaker 1: does a lot of push-ups every day. But what used 315 00:17:47,450 --> 00:17:51,050 Speaker 1: to happen was I would go, oh, I just don't 316 00:17:51,150 --> 00:17:53,530 Speaker 1: like this or whatever. Maybe I couldn't fit into a 317 00:17:53,550 --> 00:17:56,450 Speaker 1: pair of pants that I bought, whatever the motivation was. 318 00:17:57,230 --> 00:17:59,370 Speaker 1: But I would go to the gym. And I would 319 00:17:59,430 --> 00:18:03,869 Speaker 1: spend an hour and a half there. The next day, 320 00:18:04,109 --> 00:18:06,190 Speaker 1: and the day after that, and the day after that, 321 00:18:06,390 --> 00:18:10,130 Speaker 1: I would be incredibly sore. And it would be kind 322 00:18:10,170 --> 00:18:12,389 Speaker 1: of like, I don't want to try that again. And 323 00:18:13,300 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: it wasn't until, just quite frankly, only in the last 324 00:18:17,980 --> 00:18:21,139 Speaker 1: decade or so, that I realized I don't have to 325 00:18:21,180 --> 00:18:25,980 Speaker 1: go crazy. Moderation is a good thing. But if I 326 00:18:26,020 --> 00:18:31,020 Speaker 1: will do these simple things, maybe it's going... to out 327 00:18:31,060 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: and walk five nights a week. Try to get two 328 00:18:34,940 --> 00:18:39,750 Speaker 1: or three or four miles in walking. That over time 329 00:18:39,869 --> 00:18:44,010 Speaker 1: builds up. And we know that from physical conditioning. 330 00:18:44,030 --> 00:18:46,670 Speaker 2: You don't need the one day at the gym that's 331 00:18:46,810 --> 00:18:47,530 Speaker 2: two hours. 332 00:18:47,630 --> 00:18:48,030 Speaker 1: Correct. 333 00:18:48,170 --> 00:18:51,250 Speaker 2: Once a week. it's better to do two or three 334 00:18:51,430 --> 00:18:52,370 Speaker 2: miles of walking. 335 00:18:52,690 --> 00:18:55,310 Speaker 1: Correct. Every night. It's that consistency. 336 00:18:55,410 --> 00:18:57,210 Speaker 2: And it's the same thing in our marriages. 337 00:18:57,510 --> 00:18:57,730 Speaker 1: Yeah. 338 00:18:57,950 --> 00:18:59,730 Speaker 2: It's like, I'm going to be patient. 339 00:19:00,170 --> 00:19:00,330 Speaker 1: Yeah. 340 00:19:00,470 --> 00:19:01,910 Speaker 2: I'm going to be patient. 341 00:19:01,950 --> 00:19:02,110 Speaker 1: Yep. 342 00:19:02,190 --> 00:19:04,130 Speaker 2: Little, the little, and the little things. 343 00:19:04,369 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: There's also another principle that I think kind of undergirds this. 344 00:19:08,450 --> 00:19:08,730 Speaker 2: Okay. 345 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: There was a article that was written over a decade ago. 346 00:19:12,260 --> 00:19:14,780 Speaker 1: I think it was maybe about 15 years ago in 347 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,990 Speaker 1: the Harvard Business Review. And it was called The Power 348 00:19:18,130 --> 00:19:22,230 Speaker 1: of Small Wins. It's been one of their most popular articles. 349 00:19:22,350 --> 00:19:22,930 Speaker 2: Oh, no kidding. 350 00:19:22,970 --> 00:19:28,060 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the core concept was this progress principle. So 351 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:34,500 Speaker 1: it's making progress in meaningful work is often the most 352 00:19:34,580 --> 00:19:39,550 Speaker 1: powerful driver of positive emotions, motivation, and performance. 353 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:41,379 Speaker 2: Okay, wait. 354 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,120 Speaker 1: Say that again. So making progress. 355 00:19:44,290 --> 00:19:49,110 Speaker 2: In something meaningful that you're doing is the thing that 356 00:19:49,170 --> 00:19:53,460 Speaker 2: drives you. positive motivation and positive feelings. 357 00:19:53,900 --> 00:19:59,619 Speaker 1: Correct. Making progress. Making progress. It's not making progress in 358 00:19:59,700 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: that huge problem that you've been struggling with for three months. 359 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:09,890 Speaker 1: It might just be making progress in Getting this report 360 00:20:10,090 --> 00:20:14,129 Speaker 1: filed more efficiently than what I did yesterday or the 361 00:20:14,150 --> 00:20:16,909 Speaker 1: day before. I kind of, oh, that's a new way 362 00:20:16,950 --> 00:20:20,990 Speaker 1: of approaching this. And just feeling good about that small 363 00:20:21,060 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: little win. Okay. Sorry. 364 00:20:23,340 --> 00:20:25,620 Speaker 2: I have to give you just a silly example of this. 365 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,959 Speaker 2: This is not a marriage example, but it's a workplace example. 366 00:20:28,300 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 2: Like in a hotel recently, I was talking to the 367 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:34,699 Speaker 2: front desk person. 368 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:34,820 Speaker 1: Okay. 369 00:20:35,390 --> 00:20:39,340 Speaker 2: And we were talking about how difficult things were sometimes 370 00:20:39,380 --> 00:20:41,940 Speaker 2: when they have a bunch of people all trying to 371 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 2: check in at the same time or check out and 372 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,659 Speaker 2: standing in line looking at their watches and whatever. And 373 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:53,290 Speaker 2: the front desk person was like, she said, there's this 374 00:20:53,550 --> 00:20:58,030 Speaker 2: little tiny change that all I did is I would 375 00:20:58,050 --> 00:21:01,300 Speaker 2: write down on a little sticky note, the woman with 376 00:21:01,340 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 2: the red hair is looking at her watch and needs 377 00:21:04,859 --> 00:21:07,860 Speaker 2: to go second. Like she literally would just go, okay, 378 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 2: this is the order that I'm going to go this, this, 379 00:21:09,980 --> 00:21:13,340 Speaker 2: and this. And so there wasn't this, oh my gosh, overwhelmed. 380 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 2: Somebody's on the phone. There's four people waiting. She'd turn 381 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:18,479 Speaker 2: her attention to the woman with the red hair. Like 382 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:20,770 Speaker 2: she'd literally just write on the sticky note, red hair next. 383 00:21:22,070 --> 00:21:26,230 Speaker 2: And this little tiny thing, it like, I don't know 384 00:21:26,290 --> 00:21:31,170 Speaker 2: if it actually made any difference to the customers, but 385 00:21:31,190 --> 00:21:34,100 Speaker 2: it made a huge difference to, To her feeling like, okay, 386 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 2: I got this. 387 00:21:34,940 --> 00:21:35,100 Speaker 1: Yep. 388 00:21:35,420 --> 00:21:37,830 Speaker 2: And so it's maybe what you're talking about is like 389 00:21:37,850 --> 00:21:39,350 Speaker 2: the little, I got this thing. 390 00:21:39,510 --> 00:21:43,590 Speaker 1: Yeah. And there is a part of that Harvard Business 391 00:21:43,609 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 1: School or Harvard Business Review article was written to managers. 392 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 2: Okay. 393 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: Helping them to understand and recognize in their subordinates, in 394 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:59,020 Speaker 1: their employees, that how to be able to imbue those 395 00:21:59,140 --> 00:22:02,700 Speaker 1: positive feelings in them. So when that employee did something 396 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:09,270 Speaker 1: that was positive, the manager kind of affirmed them in that. 397 00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:14,390 Speaker 1: And so it is, in marriage I think of, there 398 00:22:14,450 --> 00:22:16,930 Speaker 1: are times when we just kind of are busy about 399 00:22:16,990 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 1: our lives and aren't paying attention. And if we will 400 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 1: pay attention to something, that little bit of effort that 401 00:22:23,980 --> 00:22:28,149 Speaker 1: maybe your spouse is doing... In a particular way that 402 00:22:28,210 --> 00:22:32,190 Speaker 1: you know that they want to improve or change or whatever. 403 00:22:32,780 --> 00:22:35,419 Speaker 1: And you can praise or encourage that. 404 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 2: Or even just, like I think of, we talked earlier 405 00:22:39,740 --> 00:22:44,460 Speaker 2: about saying thank you. Like how often that's just this emotional, whew, 406 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 2: for men. But a lot of women come up to 407 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 2: us and they're like, I don't get thanked. I put 408 00:22:50,220 --> 00:22:53,190 Speaker 2: all the dishes in the dishwasher constantly. I'm always doing this, that, 409 00:22:53,210 --> 00:22:53,810 Speaker 2: the other thing. 410 00:22:53,869 --> 00:22:55,149 Speaker 1: Why doesn't he thank me? 411 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 2: And it strikes me that if we would just get 412 00:22:59,260 --> 00:23:03,400 Speaker 2: into the habit of, like, if the husband would go 413 00:23:03,500 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 2: to the wife and give her a big hug and 414 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,500 Speaker 2: be like, you were the best mom. Right. Like, oh, 415 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:12,580 Speaker 2: my gosh, that'll feed that motivation for a week. And 416 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 2: that's just a little consistent over and over. 417 00:23:15,900 --> 00:23:20,379 Speaker 1: And I think that we get into this crazy thought 418 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:27,060 Speaker 1: pattern of they don't need that. That's not important to them. 419 00:23:27,220 --> 00:23:30,139 Speaker 1: Of course they know this about me, that I feel 420 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:31,379 Speaker 1: this way, or whatever. 421 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:32,740 Speaker 2: Of course they know that. 422 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: I think that's right. And so if you begin to 423 00:23:36,140 --> 00:23:41,619 Speaker 1: make those little recognition of those little things, those are 424 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,710 Speaker 1: those small wins that build on top of each other 425 00:23:46,010 --> 00:23:48,109 Speaker 1: and create that kind of virtuous cycle. 426 00:23:48,230 --> 00:23:50,530 Speaker 2: So write on a sticky note on your mirror, put 427 00:23:50,570 --> 00:23:55,730 Speaker 2: it on your mirror, Pastor Mo Huggins says, comment that 428 00:23:55,869 --> 00:23:59,149 Speaker 2: creating a great marriage is not about doing the amazing 429 00:23:59,210 --> 00:24:02,410 Speaker 2: things occasionally, but the simple things consistently. 430 00:24:02,550 --> 00:24:04,689 Speaker 1: And I would say one of those simple things is 431 00:24:05,750 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: observing and seeing what your spouse is doing. 432 00:24:09,100 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 2: What your spouse is doing. 433 00:24:09,990 --> 00:24:10,170 Speaker 1: Yep. 434 00:24:10,340 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 2: Okay. 435 00:24:10,710 --> 00:24:10,950 Speaker 1: Good. 436 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 2: Okay. So, third step. 437 00:24:13,619 --> 00:24:15,879 Speaker 1: We got time for this? Yes. Let's do it. 438 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 2: Let's do it. Third step. 439 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: Give yourself grace. New skills may take time to learn. Yep. So, 440 00:24:23,650 --> 00:24:26,980 Speaker 1: I think that's a really important thing. From someone who 441 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:34,020 Speaker 1: has an Enneagram 1 perspective, I have a harsh inner critic. Well, 442 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:35,220 Speaker 1: the Enneagram 1. 443 00:24:35,180 --> 00:24:38,100 Speaker 2: For people who don't know, that's the moral perfectionist. 444 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:44,070 Speaker 1: Correct. And so I am oftentimes disappointed more with myself 445 00:24:44,150 --> 00:24:47,730 Speaker 1: than I am with others. And I'm disappointed that I 446 00:24:47,810 --> 00:24:49,980 Speaker 1: should have done better. I should have been able to 447 00:24:50,020 --> 00:24:53,400 Speaker 1: do this or whatever it is. But I hear that 448 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 1: language in my head from time to time. 449 00:24:57,420 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 2: It's you talking to yourself and not in a nice way. 450 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,660 Speaker 1: No, no. It's not necessarily, it's not giving other people 451 00:25:05,700 --> 00:25:07,460 Speaker 1: grace and it's not giving myself grace. 452 00:25:07,570 --> 00:25:11,270 Speaker 2: Okay. So this third step is about, well, it's really both, 453 00:25:11,390 --> 00:25:16,390 Speaker 2: but give both of you grace. Yourself and your spouse 454 00:25:16,450 --> 00:25:21,149 Speaker 2: because you are trying to learn something And here's one 455 00:25:21,170 --> 00:25:25,710 Speaker 2: of the things that I think that we, it's all 456 00:25:25,850 --> 00:25:29,550 Speaker 2: a part of the same concept that like, oh, these 457 00:25:29,570 --> 00:25:33,260 Speaker 2: things are just so complicated. And, oh, you know, I'm 458 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,660 Speaker 2: never going to be a PhD psychologist. So I, you know, whatever. 459 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 2: I think that we also, because of that, We go 460 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 2: in expecting these things to be hard. We go in 461 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,640 Speaker 2: expecting that we're going to get it wrong sometimes, which 462 00:25:52,900 --> 00:25:55,900 Speaker 2: if they're simple, then it's like, no, I can do that. 463 00:25:55,980 --> 00:25:56,140 Speaker 1: Right. 464 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,980 Speaker 2: If we expect that it's this big, complicated thing, then 465 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,659 Speaker 2: I don't know. I think it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. 466 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: Well, you know, one of the things that, you know, 467 00:26:06,830 --> 00:26:12,230 Speaker 1: whenever you're faced with a complicated problem. 468 00:26:12,630 --> 00:26:12,910 Speaker 2: Okay. 469 00:26:13,470 --> 00:26:18,409 Speaker 1: It's always difficult to try to look at all the 470 00:26:18,470 --> 00:26:21,900 Speaker 1: pieces all at once and see how they fit together 471 00:26:21,940 --> 00:26:26,420 Speaker 1: and how to solve all of them instead of probably 472 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 1: the best approach oftentimes with complicated problems. I'm not an engineer, 473 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,770 Speaker 1: but from what I've talked about with engineers is solve 474 00:26:34,810 --> 00:26:37,930 Speaker 1: that one thing right in front of you that you can, 475 00:26:37,950 --> 00:26:41,739 Speaker 1: that one, and then you solve the next one. And 476 00:26:41,780 --> 00:26:45,460 Speaker 1: I can totally see how that applies to marriage. It is. 477 00:26:45,780 --> 00:26:48,060 Speaker 1: And you're going to look at your spouse and go, oh, 478 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,140 Speaker 1: my gosh, there's so many things there that I wish 479 00:26:51,210 --> 00:26:54,430 Speaker 1: I did better for them or I wish they did 480 00:26:54,490 --> 00:26:55,970 Speaker 1: differently for us. 481 00:26:56,310 --> 00:26:56,990 Speaker 2: Yeah. 482 00:26:57,650 --> 00:26:59,950 Speaker 1: And really just start small. 483 00:27:00,190 --> 00:27:00,590 Speaker 2: Okay. 484 00:27:00,630 --> 00:27:03,340 Speaker 1: Start with that one thing that you see that you 485 00:27:03,430 --> 00:27:07,060 Speaker 1: can do and begin to practice it. It's kind of 486 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:13,310 Speaker 1: like I think in my mind– I don't want to 487 00:27:13,430 --> 00:27:22,149 Speaker 1: see myself as a person who I'm struggling in my marriage. Okay? 488 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:22,619 Speaker 2: Okay. 489 00:27:22,670 --> 00:27:25,580 Speaker 1: If I put myself in that category, that's who I 490 00:27:25,700 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: say that kind of I am. All right. And I'm 491 00:27:29,540 --> 00:27:32,580 Speaker 1: going to come back to that. But a couple of 492 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,700 Speaker 1: years ago, I was reading James Clear's book, Atomic Habits. 493 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 2: Okay, yep. 494 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,879 Speaker 1: And he talked about how one individual, yes, one of 495 00:27:39,940 --> 00:27:42,750 Speaker 1: the individuals in it, Wanted to get in shape. He 496 00:27:42,790 --> 00:27:45,450 Speaker 1: was terribly overweight and out of shape and all of 497 00:27:45,490 --> 00:27:47,469 Speaker 1: those sorts of things. So he wanted to go to 498 00:27:47,490 --> 00:27:51,090 Speaker 1: the gym and make it a regular habit. So this 499 00:27:51,210 --> 00:27:54,690 Speaker 1: person decided that that's what he's going to do. He 500 00:27:54,750 --> 00:27:58,580 Speaker 1: joined a gym. First day, he drove to the gym, 501 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: went in there, and five minutes later, he left. The 502 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: second day, he went there. Five minutes later, after he arrived, 503 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,369 Speaker 1: he left. And he did that the third day. He 504 00:28:12,410 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: was changing what he felt about himself, who he was. 505 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,899 Speaker 1: And he was building a habit that I go to 506 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: the gym. I'm the kind of person who goes to 507 00:28:24,859 --> 00:28:28,369 Speaker 1: the gym. As opposed to... And giving himself grace. Giving 508 00:28:28,430 --> 00:28:28,970 Speaker 1: himself grace. 509 00:28:29,010 --> 00:28:30,030 Speaker 2: He didn't need to be there for an hour. 510 00:28:30,050 --> 00:28:32,410 Speaker 1: For an hour, hour and a half. And, you know, 511 00:28:32,430 --> 00:28:34,970 Speaker 1: be working out all these different muscle groups, all of 512 00:28:35,030 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: those sorts of things. He first wanted to change how he... 513 00:28:39,450 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: felt about himself. What was the narrative he told about himself? 514 00:28:44,180 --> 00:28:47,060 Speaker 1: Which was, I'm someone who goes to the gym. And 515 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: I want to be someone who invests in my marriage. 516 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 1: I want to be someone who learns my spouse. Oh, 517 00:28:55,860 --> 00:28:59,810 Speaker 1: that's so good. And those things. And so then when I'm, 518 00:29:00,630 --> 00:29:04,010 Speaker 1: you know, and I am a person in a good marriage, 519 00:29:04,750 --> 00:29:08,670 Speaker 1: I'm beginning to, because of those little habits... I'm beginning 520 00:29:08,710 --> 00:29:11,910 Speaker 1: to see myself differently. It's interesting. 521 00:29:12,890 --> 00:29:16,290 Speaker 2: So this habit is about giving yourself grace, to some 522 00:29:16,330 --> 00:29:20,459 Speaker 2: degree giving your spouse grace as well. And it's interesting 523 00:29:20,500 --> 00:29:24,100 Speaker 2: that one of the habits of the happiest marriages, and 524 00:29:24,220 --> 00:29:27,620 Speaker 2: this was one of the habits that transitioned people more 525 00:29:27,660 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 2: than any other from being in a difficult marriage to 526 00:29:30,940 --> 00:29:36,390 Speaker 2: being in a happy marriage, was when they switched from 527 00:29:36,690 --> 00:29:41,270 Speaker 2: viewing their marriage as having an eject button to viewing 528 00:29:41,370 --> 00:29:43,950 Speaker 2: their marriage as no this is for life there's no 529 00:29:44,020 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 2: abuse there's no whatever this is just difficult and so 530 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 2: I we are going to be the committed couple that 531 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 2: makes this work and it was that switch it was 532 00:29:55,860 --> 00:30:00,530 Speaker 2: literally just a mindset switch because then if you're If 533 00:30:00,550 --> 00:30:02,110 Speaker 2: you're going to make this for life, you might as 534 00:30:02,130 --> 00:30:03,950 Speaker 2: well figure out how to make it happy. 535 00:30:04,010 --> 00:30:04,230 Speaker 1: Right. 536 00:30:04,970 --> 00:30:10,270 Speaker 2: Right. And so having that kind of view of yourself, 537 00:30:10,890 --> 00:30:15,510 Speaker 2: and that is by definition, it requires saying, giving grace 538 00:30:15,830 --> 00:30:16,470 Speaker 2: to one another. 539 00:30:16,490 --> 00:30:17,370 Speaker 1: Yeah. 540 00:30:17,510 --> 00:30:20,170 Speaker 2: Because I, that means also I am the type of 541 00:30:20,210 --> 00:30:21,890 Speaker 2: person who works through problems. 542 00:30:21,910 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 1: Right. 543 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,340 Speaker 2: I am the type of person who I'm not going 544 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,820 Speaker 2: to get overwrought every time something My spouse does something 545 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 2: that hurts my feelings. That's not the type of person 546 00:30:30,860 --> 00:30:34,100 Speaker 2: I am. It's all of that. That is so, that 547 00:30:34,180 --> 00:30:39,530 Speaker 2: is so interesting. Okay. So, um, and, and we, just 548 00:30:39,570 --> 00:30:45,410 Speaker 2: so everybody knows, like we view, I think that we've 549 00:30:45,450 --> 00:30:48,690 Speaker 2: done some really good research over the years. We've identified 550 00:30:48,750 --> 00:30:52,110 Speaker 2: some things that really matter from some of our different 551 00:30:52,130 --> 00:30:54,730 Speaker 2: books and research studies. And we'll put some of those 552 00:30:54,770 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 2: in the show notes and, But that doesn't mean that 553 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,040 Speaker 2: you and me have figured it out. 554 00:31:00,060 --> 00:31:00,340 Speaker 1: For sure. 555 00:31:00,380 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 2: Like, we have to have grace with ourselves and with 556 00:31:02,460 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 2: each other constantly. 557 00:31:03,180 --> 00:31:03,660 Speaker 1: For sure. 558 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:04,430 Speaker 2: I mean, I. 559 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:10,170 Speaker 1: You know, in that grace with one another, it really 560 00:31:10,290 --> 00:31:13,330 Speaker 1: is interesting. I've seen couples, you know, that I've had 561 00:31:13,390 --> 00:31:16,550 Speaker 1: relationship with for 15, 20 years. 562 00:31:16,570 --> 00:31:17,670 Speaker 2: Okay. 563 00:31:17,690 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: And a couple of them, a couple of those couples, 564 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,970 Speaker 1: you know, really battled. I mean, battled with each other. And... 565 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,580 Speaker 1: There were things that I would hear one spouse say 566 00:31:29,620 --> 00:31:32,820 Speaker 1: to the other and the other would react negatively and 567 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,820 Speaker 1: just it would be like, that's not going in a direction. 568 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:41,570 Speaker 1: That's not good. Right. And then I see these couples 569 00:31:41,810 --> 00:31:45,620 Speaker 1: over the years and as the decades unfold, some of 570 00:31:45,660 --> 00:31:51,170 Speaker 1: the things that I see that would have caused them 571 00:31:51,290 --> 00:31:57,460 Speaker 1: to really, really spiral and really work each other over, 572 00:31:58,220 --> 00:32:01,700 Speaker 1: it doesn't. And they just kind of like, you know, 573 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,550 Speaker 1: shrug their shoulders, you know, kind of smile and move on. 574 00:32:07,210 --> 00:32:09,650 Speaker 1: And some of those things, it is the, you know, 575 00:32:09,690 --> 00:32:13,550 Speaker 1: the overused adage of don't sweat the small stuff, but 576 00:32:13,590 --> 00:32:15,650 Speaker 1: there is something to that. 577 00:32:15,870 --> 00:32:16,830 Speaker 2: Yeah, there is. 578 00:32:17,910 --> 00:32:21,110 Speaker 1: And it is a practice thing of, you know, all 579 00:32:21,150 --> 00:32:24,150 Speaker 1: those times when I stood on, you know, I had 580 00:32:24,190 --> 00:32:29,540 Speaker 1: to be right. didn't really make our relationship happier. 581 00:32:30,020 --> 00:32:32,260 Speaker 2: Well, and we have to close. We have to wrap 582 00:32:32,380 --> 00:32:35,420 Speaker 2: up the first three and then go to the next episode. 583 00:32:36,180 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 2: You'll get the next three in the next episode. But 584 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,510 Speaker 2: I do want to mention, it's interesting that you raise 585 00:32:41,550 --> 00:32:46,530 Speaker 2: that because a lot of people don't know our book, 586 00:32:46,890 --> 00:32:50,290 Speaker 2: The Surprising Secrets of Highly Happy Marriages, which is, you know, 587 00:32:50,310 --> 00:32:52,290 Speaker 2: I'll put that in the show notes, but there were 588 00:32:52,290 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 2: 12 habits that we identified. 589 00:32:54,860 --> 00:32:54,979 Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. 590 00:32:55,780 --> 00:32:59,540 Speaker 2: But actually, there were 13. It's just that the publisher 591 00:32:59,580 --> 00:33:01,390 Speaker 2: was like, you got to pick 12. 592 00:33:01,390 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 1: 13 is not a good number. 593 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,020 Speaker 2: You can't have 13 habits. They said 10 would be better. 594 00:33:06,140 --> 00:33:08,690 Speaker 2: We're like, no, we can't get it down to 10. 595 00:33:08,690 --> 00:33:11,030 Speaker 2: So anyway, we cut one. And the one that we 596 00:33:11,110 --> 00:33:16,410 Speaker 2: cut was that the happiest couples are more practiced at 597 00:33:16,490 --> 00:33:20,930 Speaker 2: letting things go. That that was something that letting things go, 598 00:33:21,030 --> 00:33:23,530 Speaker 2: having grace with one another. That was something that they 599 00:33:23,550 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 2: had learned to do. It's not necessarily natural. Right. 600 00:33:26,410 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: No, it isn't. I don't, I don't think it's natural 601 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: for us in a competitive society world. We want to 602 00:33:33,180 --> 00:33:33,660 Speaker 1: be right. 603 00:33:33,780 --> 00:33:34,020 Speaker 2: Yeah. 604 00:33:34,700 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: We want to win. 605 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,330 Speaker 2: So, okay. We've, we've covered a lot. Like I said, 606 00:33:39,450 --> 00:33:41,150 Speaker 2: in part two, we're going to come back with the 607 00:33:41,170 --> 00:33:44,290 Speaker 2: other three steps. So make sure that you stay tuned 608 00:33:44,450 --> 00:33:46,910 Speaker 2: for that episode and subscribe. So you, you get that 609 00:33:46,970 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 2: episode notified. Um, And we're going to get into one 610 00:33:51,060 --> 00:33:56,380 Speaker 2: of the most important foundational findings that we found from 611 00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,950 Speaker 2: the most happy marriages in that episode. But before we go, 612 00:34:01,870 --> 00:34:05,610 Speaker 2: we always try to say, what's the one most important 613 00:34:05,650 --> 00:34:09,170 Speaker 2: thing that we want to take away from this? 614 00:34:09,290 --> 00:34:11,450 Speaker 1: If I were to sum it up for me, the 615 00:34:11,510 --> 00:34:15,750 Speaker 1: one big takeaway would be small things consistently applied. Me too. 616 00:34:15,910 --> 00:34:21,580 Speaker 1: It is... Don't try to boil the ocean. Start with 617 00:34:21,860 --> 00:34:25,720 Speaker 1: one simple thing that you can do. Do it today. 618 00:34:26,219 --> 00:34:28,390 Speaker 1: And you know what? Do it tomorrow. 619 00:34:28,989 --> 00:34:30,070 Speaker 2: Maybe twice tomorrow. 620 00:34:30,430 --> 00:34:33,350 Speaker 1: The next day. And the next day after that. And 621 00:34:33,570 --> 00:34:37,350 Speaker 1: maybe you're the kind of sort like me where you 622 00:34:37,390 --> 00:34:42,770 Speaker 1: need to somehow capture that you've actually done that. Maybe 623 00:34:42,830 --> 00:34:47,330 Speaker 1: you have a little... notebook that you check things off 624 00:34:47,450 --> 00:34:50,770 Speaker 1: in and say, you know, October 5th. 625 00:34:51,530 --> 00:34:51,870 Speaker 2: Yeah. 626 00:34:51,989 --> 00:34:54,910 Speaker 1: This. Did it. X. Or maybe you have one of 627 00:34:54,930 --> 00:34:58,530 Speaker 1: those calendars that you can cross off. Make a little note. Whatever. 628 00:34:58,790 --> 00:35:03,250 Speaker 1: However you do it. But I'm a tracking kind of guy. Yeah. 629 00:35:03,290 --> 00:35:05,870 Speaker 1: So maybe that's what you need. But just do it 630 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:11,540 Speaker 1: day after day. Yeah. And it will build a positive outcome. 631 00:35:12,580 --> 00:35:13,700 Speaker 2: Wow. Okay. 632 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:13,879 Speaker 1: So. 633 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,460 Speaker 2: I think that's a good place to end. And I 634 00:35:16,580 --> 00:35:19,860 Speaker 2: hope that this episode was helpful to get you started. 635 00:35:20,420 --> 00:35:22,940 Speaker 2: If you are not a subscriber to our podcast already, 636 00:35:23,050 --> 00:35:25,990 Speaker 2: please go ahead and subscribe so you don't miss an episode, 637 00:35:26,050 --> 00:35:28,669 Speaker 2: especially the one that's coming up. And if you know 638 00:35:28,750 --> 00:35:32,890 Speaker 2: someone who would be encouraged by this conversation, please do 639 00:35:33,050 --> 00:35:36,930 Speaker 2: share this episode with them on social media and tag us. 640 00:35:37,110 --> 00:35:41,380 Speaker 2: Thanks for being with us. Thanks for listening to I 641 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,779 Speaker 2: Wish You Could Hear This, Remember to subscribe to our podcast, 642 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,460 Speaker 2: and as always, forward today's audio or video link to 643 00:35:48,500 --> 00:35:55,390 Speaker 2: a friend, counselor, or pastor who would be encouraged. I 644 00:35:55,430 --> 00:35:57,690 Speaker 2: just want to take a second to thank the team 645 00:35:57,830 --> 00:36:01,069 Speaker 2: at Life Audio for their partnership with us on the podcast. 646 00:36:01,570 --> 00:36:05,049 Speaker 2: If you go to lifeaudio.com, you will find dozens of 647 00:36:05,130 --> 00:36:09,439 Speaker 2: other faith-centered podcasts in their network. They've got shows about prayer, 648 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,899 Speaker 2: Bible study, parenting, and more.