1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:07,900 Speaker 1: Life Audio Welcome to the Love Offering Podcast. I'm your host, 2 00:00:07,940 --> 00:00:10,530 Speaker 1: Rachel Adams, author of Everyday Prayers for Love, Learning to 3 00:00:10,590 --> 00:00:13,710 Speaker 1: Love God, Others, and Even Yourself. Each week we dive 4 00:00:13,790 --> 00:00:17,150 Speaker 1: into meaningful conversations about how to live out the greatest commandment, 5 00:00:17,570 --> 00:00:19,930 Speaker 1: loving God with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength, 6 00:00:20,010 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: and loving our neighbors as ourselves. Whether through inspiring stories, 7 00:00:23,620 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: practical wisdom, or biblical truth, my hope is to encourage 8 00:00:26,860 --> 00:00:29,940 Speaker 1: you to love boldly, live faithfully, and reflect God's love 9 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,490 Speaker 1: in your everyday life. Today, I'm honored to welcome Erica 10 00:00:33,530 --> 00:00:37,890 Speaker 1: Wiggenhorn to the show. Erica is an award-winning author, Bible teacher, speaker, 11 00:00:37,950 --> 00:00:42,520 Speaker 1: and founder of Momentum Conferences and Every Life Ministries. Through 12 00:00:42,550 --> 00:00:45,220 Speaker 1: her teaching and writing, she encourages people to discover their 13 00:00:45,260 --> 00:00:48,820 Speaker 1: God-given purpose, trust His promises, and live by His power. 14 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 1: In her book, Loving Your Wayward Child, Erica draws from 15 00:00:52,300 --> 00:00:55,500 Speaker 1: Scripture and her own painful journey of pursuing connection with 16 00:00:55,540 --> 00:00:59,970 Speaker 1: a prodigal child. With honesty, biblical wisdom, and practical guidance, 17 00:01:00,110 --> 00:01:04,550 Speaker 1: she helps parents respond to heartbreaking choices, manage overwhelming emotions, 18 00:01:04,970 --> 00:01:09,009 Speaker 1: release regret, and stand firm in faith. Most importantly, she 19 00:01:09,069 --> 00:01:11,750 Speaker 1: reminds us that there has never been a perfect parent, 20 00:01:12,110 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: and there has always been a perfect God, and He 21 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:19,140 Speaker 1: is not finished. writing our family's stories. Well, hello, Erica, 22 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 1: and welcome to the Love Offering Podcast. I'm so happy 23 00:01:21,860 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: to have you. 24 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 2: I'm so happy to be here with you, Rachel. 25 00:01:24,780 --> 00:01:26,580 Speaker 1: I was just saying before we hit record, you and 26 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: I have been friends for years now, and I'm like, 27 00:01:29,580 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 1: how have you not been on this podcast? I'm shaming 28 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: myself because I feel like, man, so... You are such 29 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: a treat and such a great friend of mine and 30 00:01:40,660 --> 00:01:43,220 Speaker 1: such a talented writer and speaker. And so it's been 31 00:01:43,540 --> 00:01:45,190 Speaker 1: way too long, but I'm happy to have you today. 32 00:01:45,420 --> 00:01:47,430 Speaker 2: Well, I'm thrilled to be here today. 33 00:01:47,630 --> 00:01:52,290 Speaker 1: Well, so you have such a fun, bubbly personality and 34 00:01:52,510 --> 00:01:55,070 Speaker 1: such a great story and so much to share. But 35 00:01:55,130 --> 00:01:57,830 Speaker 1: today is a little bit more of a tough conversation. 36 00:01:58,170 --> 00:02:00,750 Speaker 1: But before we get into the tough conversation, tell us 37 00:02:00,790 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: just a little bit about you, your family, your loves, 38 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:07,060 Speaker 1: things that make Erica, Erica. 39 00:02:08,169 --> 00:02:13,460 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I am an author and a speaker. I 40 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:19,770 Speaker 2: started teaching the Bible, Rachel, in the women's ministry in 41 00:02:19,790 --> 00:02:22,389 Speaker 2: the prison yard. Not in the women's ministry in church, 42 00:02:22,570 --> 00:02:26,370 Speaker 2: in the women's prison yard in my town where I live. 43 00:02:26,630 --> 00:02:28,660 Speaker 2: That was one of the very first places that I 44 00:02:28,690 --> 00:02:33,260 Speaker 2: began to teach God's Word. It's a a story for 45 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:36,519 Speaker 2: another time, how God led me there. But it had 46 00:02:36,780 --> 00:02:39,860 Speaker 2: somewhat to do with my very first Bible study that 47 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:44,210 Speaker 2: I ever wrote, which is a study on Ezekiel. And 48 00:02:44,470 --> 00:02:48,269 Speaker 2: if you know much about Ezekiel, he was the prophet 49 00:02:48,410 --> 00:02:52,590 Speaker 2: to political prisoners of his day who had been cast 50 00:02:52,790 --> 00:02:56,130 Speaker 2: out of the land of Israel and sent to Babylon. 51 00:02:56,210 --> 00:02:59,950 Speaker 2: And through the writing of that particular study, the Lord 52 00:03:00,030 --> 00:03:04,980 Speaker 2: led me into the prison yard and really just completely 53 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 2: wrecked me, wrecked me in realizing all of my religiosity 54 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 2: and that he was calling me to revival and to 55 00:03:14,060 --> 00:03:17,690 Speaker 2: live fully for him. So That study is called an 56 00:03:17,850 --> 00:03:21,850 Speaker 2: unexpected revival because I did not expect that to happen 57 00:03:21,889 --> 00:03:24,530 Speaker 2: going into the prison yard. But God's ways are so 58 00:03:24,570 --> 00:03:28,860 Speaker 2: far beyond us. I've been married to my very best friend, Jonathan, 59 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 2: for over 30 years. And we have two kids. We 60 00:03:33,220 --> 00:03:35,540 Speaker 2: have a daughter who is 22 and we have a 61 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:40,980 Speaker 2: son who is 28. and we live in Arizona. We 62 00:03:41,060 --> 00:03:44,060 Speaker 2: have lived all over. My husband and I were both 63 00:03:44,140 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 2: originally Southern California natives. That's where we met and our 64 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:53,250 Speaker 2: love story started. We've lived in Michigan for seven years 65 00:03:53,630 --> 00:03:56,650 Speaker 2: while my husband was going to school. We've lived in 66 00:03:56,710 --> 00:04:00,290 Speaker 2: North Carolina for a couple of years, and now we've 67 00:04:00,340 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 2: been out in Arizona for 18 years, which is really 68 00:04:04,940 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 2: hard to wrap my mind around. But I have written 69 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 2: five Bible studies with Moody Publishers and two for Proverbs 70 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:17,990 Speaker 2: 31 Ministries. And this is my first foray into the 71 00:04:18,050 --> 00:04:21,630 Speaker 2: Lifeway camp with this book, Loving Your Wayward Child. And 72 00:04:22,470 --> 00:04:26,490 Speaker 2: it's definitely not a book that I ever wanted to 73 00:04:26,529 --> 00:04:29,590 Speaker 2: be able to write from personal experience, but here we are. 74 00:04:29,610 --> 00:04:35,070 Speaker 2: And trying to steward this story in a way that 75 00:04:35,330 --> 00:04:40,669 Speaker 2: honors God and His redemptive heart and also honors my family. 76 00:04:40,890 --> 00:04:44,070 Speaker 1: Well, so this book grew out of a deeply personal 77 00:04:44,089 --> 00:04:47,050 Speaker 1: and painful season for your family. And so without sharing 78 00:04:47,089 --> 00:04:50,650 Speaker 1: anything that belongs to your child's story, will you tell 79 00:04:50,690 --> 00:04:54,150 Speaker 1: us what God taught you as you have walked this 80 00:04:54,230 --> 00:04:54,730 Speaker 1: lonely road? 81 00:04:54,850 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. So what really led me to write this book was, 82 00:05:00,150 --> 00:05:03,170 Speaker 2: you know, we were going through our own deeply painful 83 00:05:03,230 --> 00:05:06,930 Speaker 2: story in our family. And I can remember it so vividly, 84 00:05:06,970 --> 00:05:09,710 Speaker 2: the shift that started to happen. When I go and 85 00:05:09,770 --> 00:05:12,910 Speaker 2: speak places, I will often say from the stage, and 86 00:05:13,089 --> 00:05:16,820 Speaker 2: I don't share really about this, from the stage, but 87 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: I come to teach the Bible. I'm a Bible teacher. 88 00:05:20,140 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 2: At the end, I always invite the women, if they 89 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,020 Speaker 2: have a prayer request, if they have a question or 90 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,659 Speaker 2: something that's burdening them on their heart that they would 91 00:05:27,700 --> 00:05:29,820 Speaker 2: like to share with me, to feel free to come 92 00:05:29,860 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 2: to my table at the back of the room at 93 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 2: the end of the session, and I would be honored 94 00:05:34,140 --> 00:05:38,590 Speaker 2: to pray for them. I've been doing this a while now. And, 95 00:05:38,790 --> 00:05:42,430 Speaker 2: you know, five years ago, you know, 10 years ago, 96 00:05:42,450 --> 00:05:48,230 Speaker 2: it was health concerns and aging parents and financial pressures, 97 00:05:48,330 --> 00:05:51,529 Speaker 2: especially like during the whole COVID era, lots of financial 98 00:05:51,589 --> 00:05:54,230 Speaker 2: prayer requests. And I still get those prayer requests. But 99 00:05:54,390 --> 00:05:59,530 Speaker 2: a massive shift started to happen, Rachel, where the preponderance 100 00:05:59,730 --> 00:06:02,370 Speaker 2: of requests that women would come to me with, you 101 00:06:05,190 --> 00:06:08,620 Speaker 2: were shaking. Tears would fill their eyes. Their voice would crack. 102 00:06:08,700 --> 00:06:11,460 Speaker 2: They'd kind of get, you know, lower their voice because 103 00:06:11,500 --> 00:06:13,740 Speaker 2: they didn't want anyone to hear. And they would begin 104 00:06:13,820 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 2: to share with me something very painful about their child 105 00:06:18,260 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 2: and ask for prayer. And they had no way of knowing, 106 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,220 Speaker 2: but it was like their eyes were just screaming at me. 107 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:30,450 Speaker 2: Could you just... give me some hope. I just need hope. 108 00:06:30,670 --> 00:06:33,070 Speaker 2: And those were the same words that I had been 109 00:06:33,250 --> 00:06:36,810 Speaker 2: scribbling in my prayer journal that very morning to God, like, God, 110 00:06:36,910 --> 00:06:39,270 Speaker 2: would you just give me some hope in this season? 111 00:06:39,350 --> 00:06:43,470 Speaker 2: It just feels like my heart is just dying one 112 00:06:43,750 --> 00:06:47,410 Speaker 2: beat at a time. And I knew, I knew the 113 00:06:47,470 --> 00:06:50,500 Speaker 2: Lord was showing me as much as I felt alone 114 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 2: in the pain, like, I can't talk about this. People 115 00:06:53,260 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 2: aren't going to understand this. People are going to judge me. 116 00:06:56,339 --> 00:07:00,300 Speaker 2: judge our family, think poorly of my child. I knew 117 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 2: I was like, the Lord is showing me, you are 118 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:06,370 Speaker 2: not alone. And this is a problem that has become 119 00:07:06,490 --> 00:07:11,790 Speaker 2: so pervasive. And somebody needs to rally these women together 120 00:07:11,810 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 2: and point them towards me because I am the God 121 00:07:17,100 --> 00:07:21,500 Speaker 2: of reconciliation and redemption. That's my specialty. And I'm calling 122 00:07:21,540 --> 00:07:26,670 Speaker 2: you to do it. And I was like, But, you know, 123 00:07:27,030 --> 00:07:30,510 Speaker 2: when God lays something on your heart and it's so 124 00:07:31,150 --> 00:07:34,090 Speaker 2: heavy and compelling, you know, you have to say yes. 125 00:07:34,390 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 2: You know, you have to say yes. And so that's 126 00:07:36,180 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 2: how we ended up here with Loving Your Wayward Child. 127 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:41,900 Speaker 2: But I would say the biggest thing that I learned 128 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,940 Speaker 2: because I researched to death to write this book. And 129 00:07:46,020 --> 00:07:50,020 Speaker 2: I actually put together a focus group of about 100 women, 130 00:07:50,260 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 2: all who had a child that was wayward in some way. 131 00:07:55,500 --> 00:08:01,270 Speaker 2: It's such a complex issue. Maybe your child has walked 132 00:08:01,310 --> 00:08:03,870 Speaker 2: away from the faith and decided that they're an atheist. 133 00:08:04,590 --> 00:08:08,930 Speaker 2: Maybe your child has struggled with gender identity and they're 134 00:08:08,990 --> 00:08:11,900 Speaker 2: asking to have surgery or to call them by a 135 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 2: new name. Or maybe your child is battling some sort 136 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 2: of an addiction, like a gaming addiction or a pornography 137 00:08:21,220 --> 00:08:24,950 Speaker 2: addiction or a substance abuse issue. Maybe your child has 138 00:08:25,510 --> 00:08:29,940 Speaker 2: fallen into the wrong crowd and they're facing criminal charges. 139 00:08:30,070 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 2: Maybe it's a failure to launch. They won't get a job. 140 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 2: They won't be responsible. There can be a million different scenarios. 141 00:08:38,500 --> 00:08:42,020 Speaker 2: Maybe your child has gone no contact with you. They 142 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 2: call you up one day or send you a text 143 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,140 Speaker 2: message and tell you that you're toxic and you're a 144 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,540 Speaker 2: narcissist and they're not going to talk to you anymore. 145 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,060 Speaker 2: And oh, by the way, you're not going to see 146 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,430 Speaker 2: your grandchildren either. I mean, The stories are so vast 147 00:08:55,510 --> 00:08:59,050 Speaker 2: and varied, but the pain of the mother's heart is 148 00:08:59,130 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 2: the same across the board. It's that horrible sever that 149 00:09:04,460 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 2: comes to her heart because of the separation and the 150 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 2: helplessness of not knowing how to make it better and 151 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:16,849 Speaker 2: the deep, deep need for hope that how do I 152 00:09:16,890 --> 00:09:19,050 Speaker 2: hang on to hope? How do I stand in faith 153 00:09:19,250 --> 00:09:21,610 Speaker 2: in the midst of all of this and cling to 154 00:09:21,650 --> 00:09:24,890 Speaker 2: the Lord? And that That was my big question. And 155 00:09:24,970 --> 00:09:27,990 Speaker 2: so when I wrote Loving Your Wayward Child, the tagline 156 00:09:28,070 --> 00:09:32,420 Speaker 2: was a Christian guide to stand in faith and build 157 00:09:32,500 --> 00:09:35,220 Speaker 2: connection when their choices break your heart. Because I think 158 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 2: that those are the two big things. It's how do 159 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:43,969 Speaker 2: I maintain my convictions without losing the connection? And when 160 00:09:44,030 --> 00:09:48,010 Speaker 2: I've lost the connection, is there anything that I can 161 00:09:48,090 --> 00:09:50,950 Speaker 2: do to rebuild it? Because I love and I miss 162 00:09:50,990 --> 00:09:53,540 Speaker 2: my child. And so that's really what Loving Your Wayward 163 00:09:53,580 --> 00:09:57,730 Speaker 2: Child is. It's all the things that God taught me 164 00:09:57,870 --> 00:10:01,500 Speaker 2: and that I discovered during my own painful journey of 165 00:10:01,580 --> 00:10:04,900 Speaker 2: trying to answer those two questions in our own family's life. 166 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:07,900 Speaker 1: Well, I'm so thankful that you had the courage to 167 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: say yes to write it because I know it's such 168 00:10:09,940 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: a valuable resource. And I can't wait to continue today's conversation, 169 00:10:13,900 --> 00:10:15,349 Speaker 1: but we're going to take a brief break to hear 170 00:10:15,410 --> 00:10:17,090 Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor. And when we come back, 171 00:10:17,150 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: we will talk about staying connected to a child whose 172 00:10:19,700 --> 00:10:25,660 Speaker 1: choices break your heart. Welcome back. I'm talking with Erica 173 00:10:25,700 --> 00:10:29,569 Speaker 1: Wigginghorn about her book, Loving Your Wayward Child. And I 174 00:10:29,590 --> 00:10:33,150 Speaker 1: think wayward and prodigal, are they a little bit interchangeable? 175 00:10:33,170 --> 00:10:36,830 Speaker 1: Those terms, even though we are kind of familiar with them, 176 00:10:36,850 --> 00:10:40,290 Speaker 1: they also are maybe even a little bit difficult to define. 177 00:10:40,370 --> 00:10:43,190 Speaker 1: So can you dive in a little bit to what 178 00:10:43,250 --> 00:10:45,710 Speaker 1: a wayward or prodigal, or even maybe the Bible story 179 00:10:45,809 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: of the prodigal son? Was there some inspiration from that 180 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:50,140 Speaker 1: Bible story? 181 00:10:50,380 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's such a great question, Rachel. So when I 182 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:58,460 Speaker 2: think of wayward, I think of a child who is 183 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,580 Speaker 2: making choices that are breaking your heart. They might still 184 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 2: claim to follow the Lord. They might say, I'm still 185 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,620 Speaker 2: a Christian. I still love Jesus. I still believe in God. 186 00:11:06,660 --> 00:11:11,820 Speaker 2: They haven't necessarily totally renounced their faith, but their choices 187 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,870 Speaker 2: are causing you pain nonetheless. I know many women that 188 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,710 Speaker 2: were in my focus group, for instance, I had one 189 00:11:18,750 --> 00:11:23,220 Speaker 2: woman who her daughter said, was married to a pastor 190 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 2: and her daughter had decided to go no contact with her. 191 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,900 Speaker 2: So she hasn't walked away from her faith per se, 192 00:11:29,940 --> 00:11:32,140 Speaker 2: but she's cut her mom out of her life. And 193 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,590 Speaker 2: as much as her mom has tried to mend and 194 00:11:35,730 --> 00:11:39,170 Speaker 2: ask for forgiveness and figure out why, she gets no response. 195 00:11:39,429 --> 00:11:43,230 Speaker 2: So wayward doesn't necessarily mean a renunciation of faith. It 196 00:11:43,270 --> 00:11:46,010 Speaker 2: can mean that. I see prodigal as someone who has 197 00:11:46,070 --> 00:11:48,980 Speaker 2: just said, I don't believe any of that Christian stuff. 198 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:51,319 Speaker 2: I don't want to talk to you about any of 199 00:11:51,340 --> 00:11:53,780 Speaker 2: that stuff. If you do talk to me about any 200 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 2: of that stuff, I'm not going to talk to you 201 00:11:55,340 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 2: ever again kind of thing. So it's much more specific, 202 00:11:58,220 --> 00:12:00,620 Speaker 2: whereas wayward, I think, is a much broader term. 203 00:12:01,490 --> 00:12:04,070 Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure. I'm just thinking about me 204 00:12:04,250 --> 00:12:07,290 Speaker 1: as a mom. Anytime our child makes a decision that 205 00:12:07,490 --> 00:12:09,610 Speaker 1: is different than what we would make, and we think 206 00:12:09,650 --> 00:12:12,010 Speaker 1: about how much time we've invested and how much we 207 00:12:12,050 --> 00:12:14,030 Speaker 1: love them and what we want for them, it's almost 208 00:12:14,090 --> 00:12:17,089 Speaker 1: an act of surrender as a mom, isn't it? Like, 209 00:12:17,350 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: I'm releasing my children to you. I trust you, Lord, 210 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,140 Speaker 1: with them, but I can't just sit and watch this happen. 211 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: And you feel so out of control, even though you 212 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,620 Speaker 1: want to control it. It's a hard position as a mom, 213 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:30,100 Speaker 1: isn't it? It is. 214 00:12:30,420 --> 00:12:33,330 Speaker 2: One of the things that we talk about extensively in 215 00:12:33,370 --> 00:12:38,069 Speaker 2: Loving Your Wayward Child is walking through that process of release, right? 216 00:12:38,230 --> 00:12:42,290 Speaker 2: And we walk through that. some release prayers to pray 217 00:12:42,429 --> 00:12:45,510 Speaker 2: and some scripture to focus our mind on and some 218 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 2: activities that we can incorporate in our day to remind 219 00:12:49,540 --> 00:12:54,020 Speaker 2: ourselves that we serve a trustworthy God. One of the 220 00:12:54,100 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 2: things that really helped me in that whole surrender process 221 00:12:58,900 --> 00:13:02,140 Speaker 2: that you're talking about is when people would ask us 222 00:13:02,340 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 2: about our son, how's your son doing? The response that 223 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 2: I would find myself saying often, because I didn't want 224 00:13:09,830 --> 00:13:13,490 Speaker 2: to get into the details of all of his choices, was, 225 00:13:14,270 --> 00:13:17,950 Speaker 2: he's just so far from God. He's just far from God. 226 00:13:17,990 --> 00:13:19,630 Speaker 2: He just needs to come back to God. He just 227 00:13:19,670 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 2: needs to come closer to God. And I felt like 228 00:13:22,540 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 2: it gave people a direction in how to pray, but 229 00:13:26,940 --> 00:13:30,340 Speaker 2: it didn't unpack all the specifics of the hard thing 230 00:13:30,460 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 2: that we were walking through. But what I realized, Rachel, 231 00:13:33,740 --> 00:13:37,020 Speaker 2: is that my son, no one's son or daughter is 232 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:41,620 Speaker 2: ever far from God. Because when you unpack the scripture, 233 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:47,370 Speaker 2: anytime people in scripture went into exile, were sent into exile, 234 00:13:47,450 --> 00:13:50,870 Speaker 2: even from the very first time, right? When God exiled 235 00:13:50,970 --> 00:13:53,969 Speaker 2: Cain in Genesis 4, we're told that God put a 236 00:13:53,970 --> 00:13:58,490 Speaker 2: mark there. on Cain. He went with him, with his presence, 237 00:13:58,650 --> 00:14:03,459 Speaker 2: with his protection into exile. And every time God sent 238 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 2: his people into exile, it was always for the purpose 239 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 2: of he went with them, but then to bring them 240 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 2: back out again, right? He was with his people in 241 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:21,550 Speaker 2: the He was never far from God. None of our 242 00:14:21,590 --> 00:14:25,850 Speaker 2: children ever are because God, that's the gospel story, right? 243 00:14:25,950 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 2: Is that we serve a God who pursues us into 244 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 2: our desert, in our desert of rebellion, our wilderness, our 245 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 2: wild living. He pursues us with his love, which sometimes 246 00:14:40,220 --> 00:14:43,500 Speaker 2: does look like discipline, but he is after us and 247 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:47,620 Speaker 2: he is chasing after our children because he loves them 248 00:14:47,710 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 2: even more than we do. And so that just brought 249 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,340 Speaker 2: me so much hope when he felt so far away 250 00:14:53,420 --> 00:14:56,620 Speaker 2: from me. And I felt like I had so little 251 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 2: influence and so little control and there was nothing I 252 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,580 Speaker 2: could do. And I felt so helpless, which led me 253 00:15:03,740 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 2: to feel hopeless. God just showed me in his word 254 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,580 Speaker 2: over and over again. I am with him. My hand 255 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 2: is on him. I am chasing after his heart and 256 00:15:14,140 --> 00:15:17,730 Speaker 2: I am working things out in heavenly spaces to that 257 00:15:17,790 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 2: your earthly eyes can't see yet. I've got him, Erica. 258 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,380 Speaker 2: You don't have to hold him because he's tightly in 259 00:15:25,460 --> 00:15:28,940 Speaker 2: my grip of grace. Trust me. And it just brought 260 00:15:28,980 --> 00:15:32,150 Speaker 2: me so much peace to see how God goes with 261 00:15:32,250 --> 00:15:34,550 Speaker 2: us wherever we go. There's nowhere we can go, right? 262 00:15:34,910 --> 00:15:37,090 Speaker 2: Like David said, you know, where can I go? And 263 00:15:37,130 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 2: you're not there. He's with them. And he's got them. 264 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,420 Speaker 1: I'm so thankful for that truth. But I think as 265 00:15:42,700 --> 00:15:45,210 Speaker 1: a mom and as a dad, just parents in general, 266 00:15:45,410 --> 00:15:48,950 Speaker 1: it is hard when your children are wayward. To not 267 00:15:48,990 --> 00:15:54,090 Speaker 1: feel some level of shame or guilt or anger at 268 00:15:54,130 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: their choices and thinking, what did I do wrong? Is 269 00:15:57,180 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: this my fault? So how do we navigate those feelings? 270 00:16:00,820 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 2: This is a huge chunk of loving your wayward child, 271 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:08,980 Speaker 2: because if there's anything that a mom battles the most, 272 00:16:09,340 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 2: I think it is that feeling of shame and that 273 00:16:12,900 --> 00:16:16,670 Speaker 2: feeling of that what did I do wrong, right? It's 274 00:16:16,770 --> 00:16:20,690 Speaker 2: the self-blame. We must have done something wrong. Again, that's 275 00:16:20,730 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 2: the beauty of the scripture, right? Like, okay, well, then 276 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,660 Speaker 2: does that mean God did something wrong? Because he's got 277 00:16:25,700 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 2: a whole lot of wayward kids, right? 278 00:16:28,090 --> 00:16:29,270 Speaker 1: And he's a perfect parent. 279 00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:38,050 Speaker 2: He's the only perfect parent. And if the perfect, eternal, all-wise, all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving, perfect, 280 00:16:38,110 --> 00:16:41,510 Speaker 2: holy God has imperfect kids, guess what? We're going to 281 00:16:41,530 --> 00:16:44,110 Speaker 2: have imperfect kids too. But I would say for me, 282 00:16:44,770 --> 00:16:47,410 Speaker 2: one of the most painful parts of this whole thing 283 00:16:47,450 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 2: has been, if I'm honest, not even just battling the shame, 284 00:16:52,140 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 2: but battling the perceptions of other people into our situation, right? 285 00:16:57,540 --> 00:17:01,500 Speaker 2: So it's like you have people from the outside looking 286 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:05,660 Speaker 2: in and they're seeing, right, from a hundred yard away 287 00:17:05,770 --> 00:17:09,490 Speaker 2: view and they think that they have all the answers. Like, well, 288 00:17:09,510 --> 00:17:11,449 Speaker 2: if they would just do this, right? Like if they 289 00:17:11,490 --> 00:17:14,090 Speaker 2: were just more loving and they weren't so harsh or 290 00:17:14,150 --> 00:17:18,530 Speaker 2: just set clearer boundaries and expectations instead of coddling their child, right? 291 00:17:18,550 --> 00:17:21,670 Speaker 2: It can go all ends of the spectrum. But you 292 00:17:21,730 --> 00:17:24,880 Speaker 2: have people that look at your family situation and they 293 00:17:24,910 --> 00:17:27,860 Speaker 2: make a lot of assumptions. Some parents have even described 294 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,219 Speaker 2: to me like, we went to therapy, we sent our 295 00:17:30,260 --> 00:17:33,460 Speaker 2: children to therapy, we went to family therapy, and the 296 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:38,419 Speaker 2: therapist is telling our child, we're the problem, right? And 297 00:17:38,540 --> 00:17:43,490 Speaker 2: so what begins to happen is the mom begins to isolate. 298 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,060 Speaker 2: Because not only is she already battling with her own shame, 299 00:17:47,100 --> 00:17:50,619 Speaker 2: but then the judgment of other people, right? And the 300 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,710 Speaker 2: sayings that we all have a tendency to say, like, 301 00:17:53,750 --> 00:17:56,950 Speaker 2: no one really knows what goes on behind closed doors, right? 302 00:17:57,369 --> 00:18:00,100 Speaker 2: It's our human nature to want to try to figure 303 00:18:00,340 --> 00:18:03,899 Speaker 2: out why does she have this problem? Because if I 304 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 2: can figure out why she has this problem, then I 305 00:18:05,900 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 2: can make sure I don't do it. It doesn't happen 306 00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:11,530 Speaker 2: to my family, right? It's an act of self-preservation. But 307 00:18:11,750 --> 00:18:13,650 Speaker 2: one of the things that we talk about in Loving 308 00:18:13,690 --> 00:18:19,250 Speaker 2: Your Wayward Child and how... momentum became born is we 309 00:18:19,290 --> 00:18:22,750 Speaker 2: have to make a pact and a solid understanding that 310 00:18:23,109 --> 00:18:26,439 Speaker 2: we are not anyone else's savior. And the Lord alone 311 00:18:26,500 --> 00:18:30,540 Speaker 2: knows the facts about the situation. And I might look 312 00:18:30,700 --> 00:18:34,199 Speaker 2: from my side-eye view and think that I have all 313 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,640 Speaker 2: the answers for that mom over there, but the reality 314 00:18:36,710 --> 00:18:39,409 Speaker 2: is I don't. God does. And so my job as 315 00:18:39,490 --> 00:18:42,310 Speaker 2: a sister in Christ is not to judge her or 316 00:18:42,670 --> 00:18:47,379 Speaker 2: criticize or overly opinionate what she should do. My job 317 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,700 Speaker 2: is to point her to Jesus and continue to say, 318 00:18:51,060 --> 00:18:54,300 Speaker 2: look to Jesus, get in the word, talk to Jesus. 319 00:18:55,020 --> 00:18:58,340 Speaker 2: In Loving Your Wayward Child, we go through some very 320 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:04,129 Speaker 2: specific journal exercises to get our minds focused on the 321 00:19:04,190 --> 00:19:06,830 Speaker 2: truth of who God is and that we can trust 322 00:19:06,890 --> 00:19:09,450 Speaker 2: him and we don't have to have all the answers. 323 00:19:09,609 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 2: It's okay to not know what to do sometimes and 324 00:19:13,340 --> 00:19:17,060 Speaker 2: to just open our hands and say, God, I'm lost here, 325 00:19:17,420 --> 00:19:20,899 Speaker 2: but I trust you. And to be reminded that he's 326 00:19:20,980 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 2: still working, even when we are at the end of 327 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 2: anything and everything we feel like we can do. So 328 00:19:26,700 --> 00:19:30,510 Speaker 2: that no judgment, that's what's so hard. And when we isolate, 329 00:19:30,850 --> 00:19:34,230 Speaker 2: guess what happens? We now have one voice in our head, 330 00:19:34,590 --> 00:19:37,609 Speaker 2: our own, which has a tendency to fixate. And then 331 00:19:37,869 --> 00:19:41,070 Speaker 2: if you're anything like me, you have a tendency to catastrophize. 332 00:19:41,710 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 2: And go down the what if train, right? Well, what 333 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:45,660 Speaker 2: if this? And what if this? And what if this? 334 00:19:45,900 --> 00:19:48,050 Speaker 2: And that's where the enemy wants us. And then he 335 00:19:48,090 --> 00:19:51,139 Speaker 2: just feeds us all these lies. And so making a 336 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:55,700 Speaker 2: pact to not try to be another mom's savior becomes 337 00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,929 Speaker 2: hugely freeing and allows us to have a community where 338 00:20:01,109 --> 00:20:04,610 Speaker 2: we can encourage one another, remind each other, you're not 339 00:20:04,650 --> 00:20:06,630 Speaker 2: a bad mom. You're in the fight of your life 340 00:20:07,290 --> 00:20:11,550 Speaker 2: and I'm fighting here with you. Prayer is powerful and 341 00:20:11,670 --> 00:20:15,910 Speaker 2: God's not finished yet. There's always hope because there's always God. 342 00:20:17,070 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely. You know, I'm thinking when we want to 343 00:20:22,300 --> 00:20:26,160 Speaker 1: love our wayward child, sometimes it's a tricky balance because 344 00:20:26,220 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 1: we want to unconditionally love them, but we also don't 345 00:20:28,900 --> 00:20:33,970 Speaker 1: want to condone their behavior or feel like we're approving 346 00:20:34,070 --> 00:20:36,270 Speaker 1: of their choices when we really aren't. How do we 347 00:20:36,310 --> 00:20:37,090 Speaker 1: navigate that? Yeah. 348 00:20:37,630 --> 00:20:40,690 Speaker 2: That's very hard. And again, this goes back to what 349 00:20:40,710 --> 00:20:44,740 Speaker 2: we were just talking about, the complexity of the situation, right? 350 00:20:44,900 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 2: And how we have to sit before the Lord and 351 00:20:48,859 --> 00:20:51,369 Speaker 2: figure out what is he asking me to do in 352 00:20:51,410 --> 00:20:55,050 Speaker 2: this situation? And there's no one size fits all answer. 353 00:20:55,410 --> 00:20:59,540 Speaker 2: Because your child is uniquely made by God and their 354 00:20:59,619 --> 00:21:03,810 Speaker 2: struggle is unique and your relationship is unique and the 355 00:21:03,910 --> 00:21:07,669 Speaker 2: place of faith that your child is coming from is unique. 356 00:21:07,930 --> 00:21:13,420 Speaker 2: All of these things factor into faith. our responses. You know, 357 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 2: one of the things that our youth pastor used to 358 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,220 Speaker 2: tell my kids all the time is you can't put 359 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,660 Speaker 2: house rules on people that aren't part of the family. 360 00:21:21,900 --> 00:21:24,580 Speaker 2: So when you have a child who's saying, you know what, 361 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 2: I'm not a believer, I don't believe in Jesus, I've 362 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,719 Speaker 2: walked away from all of that, then you can't expect 363 00:21:31,859 --> 00:21:36,120 Speaker 2: them to Act like someone who sold out for Jesus. 364 00:21:36,170 --> 00:21:38,659 Speaker 2: They've decided they don't believe in Jesus. And so the 365 00:21:38,700 --> 00:21:41,740 Speaker 2: house rules have now changed. And so how would you 366 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 2: treat someone who doesn't know Jesus? What expectations would you 367 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,830 Speaker 2: have of them? A lot of this boils down to 368 00:21:50,070 --> 00:21:55,070 Speaker 2: really unpacking our expectations. Because if we're not honest with 369 00:21:55,130 --> 00:21:59,459 Speaker 2: ourselves about what our expectations are, and we're where our 370 00:21:59,540 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 2: emotions are coming from, we're not going to be able 371 00:22:03,050 --> 00:22:05,710 Speaker 2: to invite the Holy Spirit to come in and regulate 372 00:22:05,770 --> 00:22:08,669 Speaker 2: those emotions in a positive way. Let me give you 373 00:22:08,690 --> 00:22:13,169 Speaker 2: a very specific example. If I am approaching or responding 374 00:22:13,230 --> 00:22:16,310 Speaker 2: to my child out of fear rather than faith, I 375 00:22:16,390 --> 00:22:22,980 Speaker 2: am going to probably either have unrealistic expectations, respond either 376 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:27,360 Speaker 2: too harshly or too softly. I'm either going to demand 377 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,859 Speaker 2: that they respond agree with my convictions, or I'm going 378 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,020 Speaker 2: to capitulate my convictions just to try to keep the 379 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,660 Speaker 2: peace because I'm operating out of a place of fear. 380 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:42,380 Speaker 2: With our son, he knows exactly. He knows exactly what 381 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 2: we believe, what we believe he should be doing, what 382 00:22:45,530 --> 00:22:47,949 Speaker 2: we believe he should no longer be doing. There is 383 00:22:48,210 --> 00:22:51,750 Speaker 2: no question there. And he knows about this book and 384 00:22:52,250 --> 00:22:55,050 Speaker 2: He sees me posting things on social media. We had 385 00:22:55,090 --> 00:22:58,310 Speaker 2: a conversation and I just said, honey, the Lord has 386 00:22:58,350 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 2: really laid it on mom's heart to bring moms together 387 00:23:02,190 --> 00:23:05,500 Speaker 2: that are walking this hard road. And to say, we've 388 00:23:05,540 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 2: got to lock arms and bend knees together and fall 389 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 2: on our face before God and pray for our children. 390 00:23:13,460 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 2: And they need to be in the word and they 391 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,300 Speaker 2: need practical help on how to get through this season. 392 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:24,010 Speaker 2: But if mom puts something, on social media or wherever, 393 00:23:24,170 --> 00:23:27,750 Speaker 2: and you feel like it's dishonoring to you in any way, 394 00:23:28,070 --> 00:23:30,649 Speaker 2: you tell me and I'll take it down. And so 395 00:23:31,050 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 2: there is a way to do it, but it's not easy. 396 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,580 Speaker 2: And this is where going to the Lord again and 397 00:23:38,619 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 2: again and again, even this morning, even this morning, Rachel, 398 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,030 Speaker 2: there's an event coming up in our family. And in 399 00:23:44,070 --> 00:23:47,129 Speaker 2: my prayer journal, I'm like, Lord, show me how to 400 00:23:47,210 --> 00:23:51,500 Speaker 2: do this in a way that honors you brings our 401 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:56,420 Speaker 2: family closer together and helps our son know that he's 402 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,379 Speaker 2: unconditionally loved. It's a question you're asking again and again 403 00:24:00,460 --> 00:24:02,640 Speaker 2: and again. It's kind of like your daily cross you're 404 00:24:02,660 --> 00:24:05,250 Speaker 2: taking up. It's not like one day you're going to 405 00:24:05,369 --> 00:24:08,330 Speaker 2: open up your Bible and have every answer to every 406 00:24:08,369 --> 00:24:12,010 Speaker 2: situation forever and ever because new things are going to 407 00:24:12,070 --> 00:24:13,130 Speaker 2: arise all the time. 408 00:24:13,270 --> 00:24:16,459 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I can't wait to continue today's conversation, but 409 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: we're going to take another brief break to hear a 410 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,220 Speaker 1: word from our sponsor. And when we come back, we'll 411 00:24:20,260 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 1: talk about releasing our guilt, standing firm in faith, and 412 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,109 Speaker 1: trusting God with the chapters of our family stories that 413 00:24:26,130 --> 00:24:32,090 Speaker 1: are still being written. Welcome back. I'm talking with Erica 414 00:24:32,109 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: Wiggenhorn about her book, Loving Your Wayward Child. I think 415 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: so often it's hard to know Because we do live 416 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,199 Speaker 1: in this fear of like, when should I say something? 417 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,740 Speaker 1: When should I listen? When should I give my children space? 418 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: I know every child is different. Every situation is different. 419 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,210 Speaker 1: But we want to remain a safe person who is 420 00:24:52,350 --> 00:24:55,590 Speaker 1: present regardless of what's going on. Because the last thing 421 00:24:55,630 --> 00:24:59,580 Speaker 1: we want is for the door to completely close. Although 422 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: that happens sometimes too. So can you speak into that scenario? 423 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,139 Speaker 2: Yeah, we went through a season of that. In fact, 424 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,180 Speaker 2: while I was writing the book, Rachel, we actually were 425 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:14,610 Speaker 2: in a season of no contact. We had not seen 426 00:25:15,010 --> 00:25:19,150 Speaker 2: our son in face-to-face in almost a year, over a year. 427 00:25:19,369 --> 00:25:22,439 Speaker 2: So the pain of that and just the worry in 428 00:25:22,540 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 2: all of that and not knowing where they are, are 429 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,660 Speaker 2: they safe? We didn't know where he lived. We didn't 430 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,530 Speaker 2: know who he was living with. It's terrifying as a mom. 431 00:25:31,730 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 2: I can't remember, you know, I live in Phoenix. driving 432 00:25:35,100 --> 00:25:38,420 Speaker 2: down the street and seeing a young man holding a 433 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,270 Speaker 2: cardboard sign asking for money at the on-ramp to the freeway. 434 00:25:42,390 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 2: And I remember just bursting into tears and saying, God, please, 435 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:51,869 Speaker 2: please don't. ever let that be my story. Like, please, God. 436 00:25:52,090 --> 00:25:56,150 Speaker 2: And so when we don't have any information, our default 437 00:25:56,190 --> 00:26:01,050 Speaker 2: reaction is to catastrophize the situation. And that's where having 438 00:26:01,109 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 2: a community, especially like Momentum Moms, becomes so powerful because 439 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 2: one of the things that we talk about in Living 440 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:13,129 Speaker 2: Your Wayward Child is reality testing. Not everything, not every 441 00:26:13,210 --> 00:26:17,210 Speaker 2: thought that comes into our mind is reality. It's probably 442 00:26:17,230 --> 00:26:20,580 Speaker 2: a lot of times, maybe a one in a million 443 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 2: chance that that's going to happen. But as moms, we 444 00:26:24,380 --> 00:26:26,740 Speaker 2: have to give ourselves some grace with that because the 445 00:26:26,770 --> 00:26:30,909 Speaker 2: reality is when they're little, We're spending our whole existence 446 00:26:31,030 --> 00:26:34,709 Speaker 2: like on the lookout for any potential danger, right? We 447 00:26:34,750 --> 00:26:37,850 Speaker 2: take them to the park and we're like, stranger danger. 448 00:26:38,050 --> 00:26:40,430 Speaker 2: Where could they fall? Where could they get hurt? Where's 449 00:26:40,470 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 2: the traffic patterns, right? Like our minds, our hearts are 450 00:26:43,900 --> 00:26:48,100 Speaker 2: ingrained to wherever we take our child to be scanning 451 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,580 Speaker 2: for any potential issues and obstacles and trying to protect 452 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,400 Speaker 2: them and avoid them. And then you come to this 453 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:59,030 Speaker 2: place where you have zero protection. ability to do that. 454 00:26:59,290 --> 00:27:01,669 Speaker 2: And it's super, super hard. And so one of the 455 00:27:01,710 --> 00:27:04,910 Speaker 2: things that I researched is when you're in this place 456 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 2: of no contact, how can you begin to make bids 457 00:27:10,580 --> 00:27:13,060 Speaker 2: for connection? Because there is just like you said, there's 458 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 2: so much confusion out there. Like, Do I reach out? 459 00:27:16,260 --> 00:27:18,870 Speaker 2: Do I give them their space? So in Loving Your 460 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,390 Speaker 2: Wayward Child, we talk about what are some safe ways 461 00:27:22,630 --> 00:27:26,690 Speaker 2: to make those bids of connection where they're not going 462 00:27:26,730 --> 00:27:29,850 Speaker 2: to feel pressured. They're not going to feel like you're 463 00:27:30,050 --> 00:27:33,350 Speaker 2: putting demands on them. They're not going to feel like 464 00:27:33,390 --> 00:27:37,260 Speaker 2: you're trying to manipulate them. They're just going to hear 465 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:41,570 Speaker 2: the message, I love you. I love you. I miss you. 466 00:27:41,590 --> 00:27:44,649 Speaker 2: I haven't forgotten about you like I think about you 467 00:27:44,670 --> 00:27:46,889 Speaker 2: all the time. And so we walk through some of 468 00:27:46,950 --> 00:27:50,790 Speaker 2: those in Loving Your Wayward Child to just give people 469 00:27:50,930 --> 00:27:54,750 Speaker 2: some very practical ways that they can do that. But again, 470 00:27:54,770 --> 00:27:57,790 Speaker 2: it goes back to the expectations. You've got to do it. 471 00:27:58,030 --> 00:28:02,190 Speaker 2: You've got to get all of your hard emotions out 472 00:28:02,590 --> 00:28:05,070 Speaker 2: to God so he can do the work on the 473 00:28:05,150 --> 00:28:08,780 Speaker 2: inside so you can have the courage to to make 474 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 2: these bids of connection with zero expectation in return. Because 475 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,260 Speaker 2: you might be met with silence the first few times 476 00:28:16,300 --> 00:28:18,300 Speaker 2: that you do it. And you've got to be prepared 477 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,100 Speaker 2: for that. And that's a work that God's going to 478 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:26,180 Speaker 2: do within you. But Momentum Moms helps that because you're 479 00:28:26,220 --> 00:28:29,300 Speaker 2: not in it alone. You'll hear from other moms like, yeah, 480 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,360 Speaker 2: you know, the first five times I tried to make 481 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,239 Speaker 2: a bid for connection, I got nothing. But then all 482 00:28:34,270 --> 00:28:37,550 Speaker 2: of a sudden... you know, Mother's Day or Christmas or 483 00:28:37,590 --> 00:28:41,890 Speaker 2: my birthday or their birthday or their sister's birthday or whatever, 484 00:28:42,250 --> 00:28:45,070 Speaker 2: finally that breakthrough happened. And so it gives you hope 485 00:28:45,150 --> 00:28:48,690 Speaker 2: and you realize you're not the only one taking these 486 00:28:48,870 --> 00:28:52,990 Speaker 2: very brave risks. But doing it from a healthy place 487 00:28:53,070 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 2: is key. And when we try to do it, when 488 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 2: we haven't allowed God to heal some of the wounds 489 00:28:59,100 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 2: in us, chances are we're going to be doing it 490 00:29:01,730 --> 00:29:04,710 Speaker 2: out of fear and out of unrealistic expectations. 491 00:29:05,050 --> 00:29:07,630 Speaker 1: So on this podcast this season, I've been asking all 492 00:29:07,650 --> 00:29:10,479 Speaker 1: of my guests, is there a biblical concept of love 493 00:29:10,700 --> 00:29:13,340 Speaker 1: that you think applies to this topic? And so I 494 00:29:13,380 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: know the whole topic of your book, Loving Your Wayward Child. Yeah, yeah. 495 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit more about what comes to mind. 496 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,790 Speaker 2: So one of the scriptures that really just wrecked me, 497 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,170 Speaker 2: I mean, I'd always read it in a spiritual sense, right, 498 00:29:28,270 --> 00:29:31,470 Speaker 2: is in Luke 14. And Jesus is telling the story 499 00:29:31,650 --> 00:29:36,430 Speaker 2: about the master preparing the banquet. And people are giving 500 00:29:36,510 --> 00:29:39,550 Speaker 2: the messengers that are going out and inviting people to 501 00:29:39,610 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 2: come to him. banquet, all of these nonsensical reasons for 502 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 2: why they can't come. 503 00:29:44,700 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 1: Right. 504 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,330 Speaker 2: And the master is like, well, go out even further 505 00:29:48,350 --> 00:29:52,710 Speaker 2: and invite more. Right. Like I want my table full. 506 00:29:52,930 --> 00:29:57,310 Speaker 2: And I remember one morning I was actually setting the 507 00:29:57,370 --> 00:30:01,380 Speaker 2: table for Easter and I knew my son's chair was 508 00:30:01,420 --> 00:30:04,180 Speaker 2: going to be empty, right? Most of you in your family, right? 509 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,610 Speaker 2: You picture your kitchen table, your dining room table on holidays, 510 00:30:08,700 --> 00:30:10,610 Speaker 2: and it's kind of all the same of, you know, 511 00:30:10,650 --> 00:30:13,030 Speaker 2: where each person sits. And I knew that chair was 512 00:30:13,070 --> 00:30:16,310 Speaker 2: going to be empty. And it just broke me. And 513 00:30:16,710 --> 00:30:19,810 Speaker 2: as I sat down and opened up my Bible to 514 00:30:19,870 --> 00:30:22,170 Speaker 2: read my Bible that day, the Lord led me right 515 00:30:22,210 --> 00:30:26,650 Speaker 2: there to Luke 14. And it was like, you know what, Erica, like, 516 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,420 Speaker 2: I know what it's like to have an empty seat 517 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 2: at my table. And I am sending out messengers to 518 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 2: bring him back to that seat that you can't see 519 00:30:39,540 --> 00:30:42,820 Speaker 2: and you can't understand, but you have to trust me 520 00:30:42,900 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 2: that I am at work in his life. And it 521 00:30:45,420 --> 00:30:49,459 Speaker 2: just made me realize how deeply God loves us. He 522 00:30:49,540 --> 00:30:53,820 Speaker 2: is just constantly there. pursuing our hearts to draw us 523 00:30:53,900 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 2: closer to him. And then of course, right after Luke 14, 524 00:30:56,870 --> 00:31:00,630 Speaker 2: right after that parable, we get to Luke 15 and 525 00:31:00,730 --> 00:31:03,510 Speaker 2: Jesus tells the parable of the lost sheep and how 526 00:31:03,550 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 2: he goes after the one and then the parable of 527 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 2: the last coin. And how you're searching for the one, 528 00:31:09,380 --> 00:31:11,090 Speaker 2: first the one in the hundred and then the one 529 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,250 Speaker 2: in the ten. And then, of course, the prodigal son, 530 00:31:13,310 --> 00:31:15,590 Speaker 2: the one in the one. It doesn't matter how many 531 00:31:15,690 --> 00:31:19,550 Speaker 2: he already has. He's still searching for the one that 532 00:31:19,630 --> 00:31:23,170 Speaker 2: is lost. That's the gospel story. And that's the beautiful, 533 00:31:23,250 --> 00:31:24,850 Speaker 2: beautiful heart of our God. 534 00:31:25,710 --> 00:31:29,610 Speaker 1: Oh, it is beautiful and so hope-filled. So I'd like 535 00:31:29,670 --> 00:31:32,940 Speaker 1: to know something you are loving right now. Yeah. 536 00:31:33,390 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 2: So something I am loving right now is right across 537 00:31:38,060 --> 00:31:40,900 Speaker 2: the street from my house, they have opened up a 538 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 2: brand new coffee shop and it's owned by Believers and 539 00:31:44,860 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 2: it's called Milk and Honey. And on Thursday nights, they lead... 540 00:31:50,020 --> 00:31:53,180 Speaker 2: Live worship there. I live in Arizona. So right now 541 00:31:53,290 --> 00:31:56,330 Speaker 2: it's August when we're recording this. So it's like 197 542 00:31:56,330 --> 00:32:01,950 Speaker 2: degrees outside. So right now everybody's crammed on the inside. 543 00:32:02,390 --> 00:32:05,990 Speaker 2: But when it gets cooler, they have this huge patio. 544 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 2: And I love, love just this concept that the street 545 00:32:11,260 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 2: in my community is going to be filled with people 546 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:18,770 Speaker 2: worshiping Jesus on Thursday nights. at this coffee shop. And 547 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,790 Speaker 2: their summer refreshers, because it is too hot for coffee 548 00:32:22,870 --> 00:32:27,750 Speaker 2: when it's $ 199, are amazing. So I am loving this 549 00:32:27,850 --> 00:32:28,550 Speaker 2: new coffee shop. 550 00:32:29,110 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: Coffee refreshers in worship. That's a good combination. It's so 551 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: close to you. Yes. Well, we all want to stay 552 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,220 Speaker 1: connected with you. We want to maybe attend that conference, 553 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,140 Speaker 1: buy the book. Tell us how we can stay in 554 00:32:40,180 --> 00:32:41,300 Speaker 1: contact with you. Yes. 555 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:47,820 Speaker 2: So the Momentum Conference is January 29 through 31. 2027. 556 00:32:47,820 --> 00:32:50,940 Speaker 2: It's here in Phoenix, Arizona, which if you live in 557 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,300 Speaker 2: a cold, snowy place, come get some sunshine and come 558 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,910 Speaker 2: meet your mom friends and your people. We are actually 559 00:32:57,930 --> 00:33:01,650 Speaker 2: going to work through loving your wayward child together and 560 00:33:01,730 --> 00:33:05,010 Speaker 2: begin to show you in real time, how do you 561 00:33:05,270 --> 00:33:08,430 Speaker 2: implement these habits that we're talking about? How do you 562 00:33:08,550 --> 00:33:13,540 Speaker 2: find people to reality test with So I would love, 563 00:33:13,660 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 2: love for you to think about coming and joining us 564 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 2: for that. We talk about finding your let's taco about 565 00:33:20,140 --> 00:33:24,140 Speaker 2: it sisters. Not that tacos solve problems, although that is debatable. 566 00:33:25,890 --> 00:33:29,190 Speaker 2: You can find your people, your safe people to pursue 567 00:33:29,290 --> 00:33:32,930 Speaker 2: Jesus together as you're walking this road and find encouragement. 568 00:33:33,030 --> 00:33:35,170 Speaker 2: So you can find out all about that. If you 569 00:33:35,190 --> 00:33:39,070 Speaker 2: go to my website at Erica Wiggenhorn, that's a mouthful.com. 570 00:33:39,850 --> 00:33:42,590 Speaker 2: But even if you spell it wrong, it'll probably come 571 00:33:42,690 --> 00:33:48,950 Speaker 2: up on Google. EricaWiggenhorn.com slash Momentum. Or if you are like, 572 00:33:49,130 --> 00:33:51,530 Speaker 2: I need to get this book. I need to walk 573 00:33:51,570 --> 00:33:54,580 Speaker 2: through some of these things that Erica's sharing here. You 574 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:59,380 Speaker 2: can go to GetErica'sBook.com and it'll lead you to all 575 00:33:59,420 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 2: the different places you can order it and get a 576 00:34:01,260 --> 00:34:03,140 Speaker 2: copy of Loving Your Wayward Child. 577 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,780 Speaker 1: Well, we will include that in the show notes. But 578 00:34:05,820 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 1: would you pray for us as we close today? 579 00:34:08,180 --> 00:34:12,919 Speaker 2: I would be honored to. Oh, Lord Jesus, we thank you. 580 00:34:13,219 --> 00:34:15,550 Speaker 2: We thank you that you love our children even more 581 00:34:15,590 --> 00:34:18,650 Speaker 2: than we do. And when our hearts are breaking, we 582 00:34:18,690 --> 00:34:21,770 Speaker 2: thank you that you hold us even as we're trying 583 00:34:21,830 --> 00:34:24,610 Speaker 2: to hold it all together. And you haven't left us alone. 584 00:34:24,750 --> 00:34:27,270 Speaker 2: And for every mama out there who has a child 585 00:34:27,310 --> 00:34:31,060 Speaker 2: that is wayward, who feels far from her, may she 586 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,060 Speaker 2: be reminded today that they're never far from you, God. 587 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,379 Speaker 2: And would you work mightily in their lives? Would you 588 00:34:37,420 --> 00:34:41,219 Speaker 2: return their hearts to you and their hearts home? And 589 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:46,020 Speaker 2: would you show us in real time, Lord, your work 590 00:34:46,460 --> 00:34:50,500 Speaker 2: of redemption and reconciliation that you already completed on the 591 00:34:50,540 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 2: cross and that you continue to intercede for in the 592 00:34:55,020 --> 00:34:57,660 Speaker 2: heavens as you tell us in your word. And may 593 00:34:57,700 --> 00:35:01,700 Speaker 2: you move mightily in our families and work miracles in 594 00:35:01,739 --> 00:35:04,500 Speaker 2: the lives of our children and bring healing to our 595 00:35:04,580 --> 00:35:08,690 Speaker 2: own hearts, Lord, as we seek you in Jesus name. Amen. 596 00:35:08,950 --> 00:35:11,489 Speaker 1: Amen. Erica, thank you for your time today and for 597 00:35:11,510 --> 00:35:14,610 Speaker 1: your encouragement, for all your wisdom, and for helping us 598 00:35:14,650 --> 00:35:16,310 Speaker 1: to learn to love our wayward child. 599 00:35:16,469 --> 00:35:17,110 Speaker 2: Thank you. 600 00:35:17,310 --> 00:35:19,669 Speaker 1: And thank you so much for listening to the Love 601 00:35:19,710 --> 00:35:23,090 Speaker 1: Offering Podcast. I hope today's conversation reminded you that loving 602 00:35:23,140 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 1: a wayward child does not require you to abandon your convictions, 603 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,500 Speaker 1: control the outcome, or carry the weight of your family's 604 00:35:29,540 --> 00:35:33,820 Speaker 1: future alone. You can respond with grace, create space for connection, 605 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,360 Speaker 1: and entrust your child to the perfect love of God. 606 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,020 Speaker 1: What has been lost can still be found, and the 607 00:35:39,060 --> 00:35:41,819 Speaker 1: chapter you are living today is not necessarily the end 608 00:35:41,860 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 1: of your family's story. If you enjoyed this episode, please 609 00:35:45,180 --> 00:35:46,719 Speaker 1: share it with a friend and leave a review. It 610 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:48,820 Speaker 1: helps others find the show and spreads the message of 611 00:35:48,900 --> 00:35:51,719 Speaker 1: love even further. To connect with me, visit me on 612 00:35:51,739 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 1: my website at rachelkadams.com, where you can download the Love 613 00:35:55,219 --> 00:35:58,450 Speaker 1: Always devotional, a free resource to help you realize how 614 00:35:58,510 --> 00:36:01,930 Speaker 1: beloved you already are. Be sure to check out Erica 615 00:36:01,950 --> 00:36:05,890 Speaker 1: Wiggenhorn's book, Loving Your Wayward Child. A special thank you 616 00:36:05,950 --> 00:36:09,210 Speaker 1: to Life Audio for supporting this podcast and making it possible. 617 00:36:09,590 --> 00:36:13,860 Speaker 1: To find more great podcasts, visit lifeaudio.com. Until next time, 618 00:36:13,980 --> 00:36:16,410 Speaker 1: let's make our lives an offering of life.