1 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: Life Audio. This is Donna Jones and you are listening 2 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: to That's Just what I needed. Hey, friend, if you've 3 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: ever been in a conversation where you've walked away thinking, Wow, 4 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 1: that was just what I needed, you know how life 5 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: giving that can be, Well, that's what this podcast is 6 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 1: all about. We're women who want to know, love, and 7 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: follow God in our real lives, but sometimes wonder just 8 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 1: how to do it. So each week we'll talk about 9 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: what following God looks like in the midst of daily 10 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 1: demands and crazy cultural chaos. Because this isn't just what 11 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: we need, it's actually exactly what we need. Hey, my friend, 12 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: welcome to today's episode of That's Just what I needed. 13 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: I have on deck another wonderful conversation for you today. 14 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: I want to let you know that we're doing a 15 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: book giveaway. So after listening to this podcast, I know 16 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: you're going to want a copy of this Spooking It 17 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: for yourself or you'll have in mind somebody that you 18 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: can send the book to. So here's what you have 19 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: to do in order to be injured for your chance 20 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 1: to win for the book is just simply leave a 21 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: review on the podcast. That is it easy peasy, just 22 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: leave a review and I will select one lucky winner. 23 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: I'll read the review on air. How fun to hear 24 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: your name, and then we'll be sending the book along 25 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: your way. Well, let me tell you a little bit 26 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 1: about today's guest. Her name is Lisa Applow and she's 27 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: a multi book author. Her first book was titled Life 28 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,559 Speaker 1: Can Be Good Again, Putting Your World Back Together after 29 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: it All Falls apart? Is that great title right, very 30 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:46,479 Speaker 1: timely for probably a lot of you listening. Her newest book, 31 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: which is just coming out, is called The God of Comfort. 32 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: It's a fifty day devotional. That's the book that we're 33 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: going to be giving away. Lisa's story is so compelling 34 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: and what she has learned along her journey is really 35 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: going to touch her heart and I can't wait for 36 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: you to hear it. Quick backstory. Lisa was a former 37 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 1: litigating attorney, a mom of seven, and she suddenly lost 38 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: her husband and she became a single mom and a widow. 39 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: Her children at the time were from four years old 40 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 1: to nineteen years old. And Lisa has learned what God 41 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 1: can do with a grieving heart, how God can comfort you, 42 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: how you can put your life back together. We can 43 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: put our life back together, not just through death of 44 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,799 Speaker 1: a loved one, but really through any loss where we grieve. 45 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 1: So I am so happy to welcome to the podcast 46 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: today my new friend Lisa. Lisa, welcome to the podcast. 47 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 2: So good to be with you, Donna. 48 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: I am really so happy that you are here. We 49 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: were talking before we hit record that we are on 50 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: opposite sides of the country. So tell us where you're from. 51 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 2: So I'm in the Jacksonville, Florida area on the East 52 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 2: coast and yeah, I know you're clear cross time zones. 53 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, on the west coast. And what I was just saying, Lisa, 54 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: it's just so fun to see how the body of 55 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,639 Speaker 1: Christ is all over the place and it just connects 56 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 1: us despite our geographic location. It's just our relationship with Jesus. 57 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 1: So that makes Lisa my friend and my sister. So 58 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: I get to share her. I get to share her 59 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: with all of my listening friends and sisters. Okay, so, Lisa, 60 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: you've written this is now your second book that you 61 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: have written. Correct, Yes, I love the title of the 62 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: first book, so tell us that title first, and then 63 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: I want you to tell us the title of your 64 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: latest upcoming book. 65 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 2: Okay, So my first book is called Life Can Be 66 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,839 Speaker 2: Good Again. Subtitle is putting your World back together after 67 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 2: it all falls apart because we have all been at 68 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 2: the play. Well, we haven't a hall, but many of 69 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 2: us have been in a place of walking through a 70 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 2: life that we did not order right, we did not 71 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 2: see coming. It can come through a lot of ways. 72 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 2: Mine was through loss of my husband, which is a 73 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 2: large part of the first book, but really led to 74 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 2: the second book, which is called God of Comfort, and 75 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 2: it is a devotional to fifty day devotional and each 76 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 2: devotion points to the character of God, one of the 77 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 2: aspects of God's character. Because I found that as I 78 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 2: was walking through grief that fixing my eyes on God 79 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 2: and who He is for me was the way that 80 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 2: I would be able to make it through grief. 81 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: That's so good. And you know what I really like 82 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: about that is I think a lot of people may say, Okay, yeah, 83 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: I can see how that would be the way through, 84 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: But in the middle of grief, it's like, yeah, but 85 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: I need somebody to hold my hand and help me 86 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: do that because I have such brain fog I can't 87 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 1: even do it myself. So that's what I really love 88 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: about your book is that you're like this friend who 89 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: has walked the path, and you're like, here, hold my hand. 90 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: I'll be your friend too, and I'll help you do 91 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: what you probably can't even do for yourself right now. 92 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: So I love that about this latest book. You said 93 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 1: that it had a lot to do with your own 94 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: personal loss, your own personal story. So tell us a 95 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: little bit so we are all up to speed on 96 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: your story. 97 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 2: So I'm a mom of seven. 98 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 1: Okay, we could just stop right there, Lisa, you're a 99 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: mom of seven. We could do a whole podcast of 100 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 1: that alone. 101 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, God will flat out overrule you. That's all I 102 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: can say. My husband wanted two, I went in three, 103 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 2: and then we got to seven. So very willingly made 104 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 2: it to seven. But there was a lot of trust 105 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 2: in there, that a lot of heart changed that had 106 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 2: to happen. And honestly, our life was not perfect. I 107 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 2: was married to Dan, my high school sweetheart. We got 108 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 2: married in college, and life wasn't perfect. I would not 109 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 2: go back and painted as that we had struggled in 110 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 2: our marriage. We had certainly had parenting struggles and financial skills. 111 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 2: You know, it was just the normal struggles that you 112 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:47,919 Speaker 2: have and problems you have to work out. But it 113 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 2: was the life that I wanted, right, and so on 114 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 2: a very what I thought was normal Thursday night, we 115 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 2: had pizza as a family, and I said good night 116 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 2: to my husband, kissed him good night. I had a 117 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 2: thousand of the times he said, I'm gonna do some 118 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 2: work for my mom and they'll be in the room 119 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 2: in a minute. So somewhere on Friday morning, in the 120 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 2: dark early hours of that morning, I woke up to 121 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 2: his funny breathing on the pillow next to mine, and 122 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 2: I was not even awake enough to perceive what was happening. 123 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 2: I nudged him and just with what I still closed 124 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,919 Speaker 2: and said, it's just a nightmare, and just thought he 125 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 2: would turn over and that we would fall asleep and 126 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 2: wake up to his alarm. But as he did rollover, 127 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 2: and he kept this breathing, and so as I woke 128 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 2: up more flipped on the overhead light. I could see 129 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 2: that something was really long, and I did all the things. Donna, 130 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 2: we called nine one one immediately, I say we, because 131 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 2: my children were on sleeping bags outside of our room, 132 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 2: and so they had heard me cry out. Our four 133 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 2: year old had crawled in bed between the two of us, 134 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,239 Speaker 2: so you know, I'm just in management mode. I'm saying, 135 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 2: you know, to my oldest daughter, take the little ones upstairs, 136 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 2: Deth go get the fireman, neighbor. 137 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: I thought he might beat. 138 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 2: The paramedics to our house called nine one one. 139 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: And they helped me. 140 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 2: Anyway. I won't go into all the details because I 141 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 2: don't want to trigger anybody, but we walked through CPR, 142 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 2: and I remember thinking, I am not giving CPR to 143 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 2: the man. I just kissed good night. There had been 144 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 2: no signs or symptoms, and they took him by ambulance 145 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 2: to the hospital and I followed not long after, and 146 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 2: they took me into that room you never want to 147 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 2: go in, and a very KINDI yar doctor said that 148 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 2: they had worked on him for over two hours and 149 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 2: never been able to revive him. 150 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: So that was it. 151 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 2: Life divided. Literally went to bed in one life and 152 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 2: woke up in another. And for my children too, they 153 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 2: went to bed in one life and woke up in another. 154 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: Okay, Lisa, I'm so sorry. I can't even imagine what 155 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: that was like. But some of our listeners can actually, 156 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: and if they can't, they know someone who can. So 157 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: we're hoping that this podcast really helps people that have 158 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: walk through grief. And I know your grief was unique 159 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: in the sense that it was just so sudden and 160 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: no signs or symptoms. Other people have grief of like 161 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: you said, parents or siblings or really dear friends. 162 00:07:58,680 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 2: Are long goodbye. 163 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, So any of us that have experienced that kind 164 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: of grief also then by default need comfort, and so 165 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: tell us some of the things that you learned about 166 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: comfort in those early days or you know, life two 167 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: point zero, Lisa two point zero began. 168 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 2: Well, yes, and you're right. There are a lot of 169 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 2: ways we can come to grief. And it could be 170 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 2: loss of a child, pregnancy. Our family just went through 171 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 2: his still birth, and so this is very fresh for 172 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 2: us in our family, and that was one of my 173 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 2: grandchildren who was still born. And then to be loss 174 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 2: of parents. It could be sudden, it could be a 175 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 2: long goodbye. But in all of these things, and I 176 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 2: was so grief naive, Donna, I didn't know I had 177 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 2: been through hard things. I thought, you know, but I 178 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 2: didn't know about grief. Most of us don't until we 179 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 2: find ourselves there walking it. What I found is that 180 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 2: grief is physical, like there's a physical toll on our bodies. 181 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 2: I felt like I was carved from the inside out 182 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 2: carrying this physical pain. It's mental, I mean, there were 183 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 2: so many thoughts, so much somebody memory, somebody regrets and 184 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 2: what is that we are wrestling through. Of course, it's emotional. 185 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 2: We all expect that that it's going to be sad, 186 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 2: but it's also lonely. It's also there can be despair, 187 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 2: there can be anger, there could be disappointment. There's just 188 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 2: so many layers of the emotions. And then it could 189 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 2: be spiritual because it brings to the surface a lot 190 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 2: of our expectations that we had of God and the 191 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 2: way our life was going to go, and really some 192 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 2: false idols that we've created, and so we have to 193 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 2: sift through those questions spiritually. But yeah, all of that 194 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 2: grief is just too much for us. And what I 195 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,439 Speaker 2: found about comfort is that there are a lot of 196 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 2: ways we can turn to it. We can try to 197 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 2: mask it. We can try to just go shopping or 198 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 2: go to Disney, or we can try to escape it. 199 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 2: We can fake that we're fine. Maybe I was astounded 200 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 2: to learn that some Christians believe that they're not entitled 201 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 2: degree that because Scripture says that we grieve unlike others 202 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 2: because we grieve as those with hope that maybe we 203 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 2: shouldn't grieve, and so we have to have a way 204 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 2: to find comfort that is in an unhealthy way. If 205 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 2: we don't grieve on our terms now, then grief will 206 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 2: come back on his terms later. And so looking to 207 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 2: God to provide that sustaining grace when we're lonely, to 208 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 2: come in and comfort us when we are hurting, to 209 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 2: be our wisdom where we're trying to figure out new decisions. 210 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 2: All of those ways are ways that we can turn 211 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 2: to God in our grief. 212 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: Gosh, that is so powerful. I'll tell you a couple 213 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,319 Speaker 1: of things I particularly loved about what you just said. 214 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: Number One, you said I was grief naive, and I 215 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: feel like I can resonate with that because I had 216 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: a really dear friend who lost a husband. I look 217 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: back at some of my efforts and I'm like, oh, 218 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: they were just so paltry. Probably in effect, my heart 219 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: was right, but I just didn't you know, you just 220 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: don't know, but you don't know. So I love that 221 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: you acknowledge that. And so even for those of us 222 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: who have not experienced what you have experienced. We know 223 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: someone who has or will and this will equip both 224 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:02,319 Speaker 1: of us, you know, the ones who are grieving and 225 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: the ones who love someone who is grieving. But I 226 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: really love that you went through how grief affects our bodies, 227 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: our minds, our spirits, our spiritual life, our relationship with God, 228 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: because I don't think most people understand that that. It's like, 229 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: why is my body always anxious? Or why is my 230 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: mind always spinning? Or why do I feel this despair 231 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 1: or this anger? And it's like then we by default 232 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: think something's wrong with us, rather than oh no, this 233 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 1: is what happens to a human being when they grieve. 234 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: Right would you agree with that? 235 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 2: I would totally agree with that. And there is a 236 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,319 Speaker 2: measure of comfort that comes in knowing that our experience 237 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 2: is shared. We want to know that we're not doing 238 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 2: it wrong because I remember thinking is it okay to 239 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 2: feel this way? Or should I still be feeling this way? 240 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 2: Shouldn't I feel better by now? And so understanding that 241 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,959 Speaker 2: it was a common experience is some measure of comfort. 242 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 2: And I also want to let you off the hook, 243 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 2: and let all of us off the hook, because our 244 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 2: efforts do seem so small in comparison to the bigness 245 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 2: of the pain. But grief is not a problem to fix, 246 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 2: and it is an experience that we have to walk 247 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 2: And so your showing up was itself the key thing 248 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 2: you could do, and it would be too much for 249 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 2: any one person. Somebody bring a cast role is not 250 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 2: going to make it all go away. Somebody sending a 251 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 2: text or praying or sending none of that is going 252 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 2: to make it all go away. But each one of 253 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 2: us doing what God calls us to do, it prompts 254 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,839 Speaker 2: us to do, nudges us to do, is a way 255 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 2: that we can show up as a handsome feed of 256 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 2: Christ and be with that person and walk with them 257 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 2: and grief. 258 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: So good, so good, Keey, We're going to take a 259 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: very quick break, and when we come back, you are 260 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 1: going to give us so much wisdom about walking through 261 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: grief and just experiencing the comfort of God. Okay, So, Lisa, 262 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 1: you were just talking to us about how none of 263 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: our efforts are too small and to help somebody through grief. 264 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,319 Speaker 1: But you also so just kind of walked us through. 265 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: You know how grief affects the whole person. So talk 266 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: to us about some of the very practical things you 267 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: learned about grief and about receiving God's comfort and maybe 268 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: even specifically how the character of God met you during 269 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: those days and still meet to you so many ways. 270 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 2: So in those early days, really for a long time 271 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 2: after the funeral, after everybody went back to their life, 272 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 2: here we were facing this loss and this empty house, 273 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 2: empty of him. I would get away every morning. I 274 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:31,839 Speaker 2: had kids that were old enough. My youngest was four, 275 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 2: my oldest was nineteen. I had kids that were old 276 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 2: enough that I could kind of get them going for 277 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 2: the day and then get in my Vandy van, go 278 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 2: around the corner to a little park, and just in 279 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 2: the quiet of that minivan, I could pour out my heart. 280 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 2: And my kids had seen me cry, but this was 281 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,319 Speaker 2: my place to just journal it out with the Lord, 282 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 2: to cry it out with the Lord, to ask my 283 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 2: questions or give him my fears and my worries, because 284 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 2: I had a lot of those, and really just wrestle 285 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 2: whether I did that in prayer or whether I did 286 00:13:57,640 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 2: that in my journal. And then after I did that, 287 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,079 Speaker 2: unburdening my heart, I would pick up the Bible. And 288 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,079 Speaker 2: I had started reading through the Bible for a year 289 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 2: I didn't start it in January. I started it the 290 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 2: week after Dan's funeral, because he had been reading through 291 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 2: the Bible in a year, and I just picked up 292 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 2: his journal and his lessons and began doing that. It 293 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 2: was a very simple way to say, okay, June seventeenth, 294 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 2: what do I need to do today, and just flip 295 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 2: to that scripture. And it was unbelievable, Donna, because on 296 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 2: every no matter where I was, whether I was reading 297 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 2: in Leviticus or Psalms or one of the Gospels, God 298 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 2: always met me on the page and would remind me 299 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 2: who He is and if his promises, how he cares 300 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 2: for us. And so that was a practice called lament. 301 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 2: I didn't know it at the time, but we know 302 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 2: there's been a lot written. I've written about lament, and 303 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 2: we see that all in the Psalms. We say that 304 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 2: with Hannah at the altar and her infertility and so 305 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 2: crying out for the Lord, asking him your questions and 306 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 2: giving him your hardest emotions and then saying, but I 307 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 2: trust you. And in that process daily we unload off 308 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 2: load these things are too hard for us to carry. 309 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 2: So that was a huge way. And what I found 310 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 2: was that God met me. Every had gave me enough 311 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 2: hope to go back into my home and parent my children. 312 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 2: But very practically I was the sole one making decisions, 313 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 2: and so I was like, I have got James One 314 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 2: five says that God will give us wisdom generously, and 315 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 2: I cannot tell you many times I have claimed that 316 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 2: verse and expected that if I pray about it, that 317 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 2: God is going to give me clarity and give me 318 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 2: some wisdom about how to parent or how to make it. 319 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 2: You know what decision to make. Very practically part of 320 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 2: his comfort was honestly the provision we were a one 321 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 2: income family and that income was gone that I had 322 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 2: real fears. We were okay for the short term, but 323 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 2: long term, what did that look like? Getting all these 324 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 2: kids raised and launched and so seeing God and again 325 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 2: through the hands and feet of others so many times 326 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 2: provide for us was comfort. But every point he was 327 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 2: in my loneliness, I learned that he was my sustainer 328 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 2: when everything changed. He was the rock that I could 329 00:15:58,160 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 2: count on that did not change. 330 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: Wow. One of the things that you just said really 331 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 1: struck me, and that was you offloaded. You know, you 332 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: poured out your heart to God through your prayers through journaling. 333 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: And I want to ask you about that in a minute, 334 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: because I know that's part of your book. But you 335 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: offloaded things that were too heavy for you to carry, 336 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: and then you could go back, you know, and face 337 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: your day and be the provider and be the mom 338 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: of seven. And it just reminded me of when Jesus said, 339 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: if you're weary, come to me and rest. Take my 340 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: yoke upon you. My yoke is easy, My burden is light. 341 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: And it's almost like, Okay, I got to get this 342 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: yoke of all these burdens that I am carrying, the grief, 343 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: the pain, the questions, the fears, the doubts, all the stuff. 344 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: I need to offload it to Jesus because it's too 345 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: heavy for me to bear, and let me bear it. 346 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: So I mean, in a very practical way, you applied 347 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: what Jesus was telling us to do, and I think 348 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: that's just so beautiful. So speaking of that, one of 349 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: the aspects of your book is a way to offload 350 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 1: these things, a way to journal about these things. So 351 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: talk to us a little bit about that. 352 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 2: We know science now tells us the benefits of journaling, 353 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 2: and not just journaling generally, but for grief, that journaling 354 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,679 Speaker 2: and grief has so many benefits for us as far 355 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 2: as like helping us lower our stress hormones and raise 356 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 2: our field good hormones. And so of course I didn't 357 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,439 Speaker 2: know that. I wasn't looking at studies saying how do 358 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 2: I do this. I was simply a girl desperate for 359 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,199 Speaker 2: God and desperate for hope and desperate for that comfort. 360 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 2: And so I began to journal through, like you said, 361 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 2: because it was too much to carry in my heart. 362 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 2: But when we write through, and I was not a 363 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 2: journaler before, I have to say, this was not like, 364 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 2: even though I'm a writer and I've written books, I 365 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 2: was not a journaler before. But when there was so 366 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 2: much bottled up in my heart and in my mind, 367 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 2: I needed to get it up and out and then 368 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 2: I could kind of keep going for the day. And 369 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 2: it was it wasn't like once a week I could 370 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 2: do this. I had to do this every day. I 371 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,919 Speaker 2: had to do it daily. And journaling helps us really 372 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 2: surface emotions that are in our heart. And the beautiful 373 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 2: thing about this is that sometimes we're a little unsettled 374 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 2: to bring our emotions to God because they're heard emotions. 375 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 2: We might be angry, or we might have a lot 376 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 2: of disappointment or just these hard heart emotions. But our 377 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 2: emotions are not just safe with God, they are safest 378 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 2: with God. God made us to think and to do 379 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 2: and to feel, and so our emotions are His very 380 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 2: good idea. He designed us with emotions and He already knows. 381 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 2: So bringing those to him? Why do we do it 382 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,239 Speaker 2: through written journaling? There's something about long hand writing it 383 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 2: out or where you type it out, or however you 384 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,719 Speaker 2: can bring those to him in some lament or some prayer. 385 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 2: You are unburning your heart and laying that before the Lord. 386 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: Oh wow, our emotions are not just safe with God, 387 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: they're safest with God. Wow. That's something I think a 388 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: lot of us need to meditate on and like, really think, 389 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 1: do I believe that that my emotions are safest with God? 390 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 1: Because they are? Because they are. That's the truth and 391 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 1: the liahs that we can't bring our whole selves to 392 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: God and find the comfort and the help that we need. 393 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 1: So I'm familiar and probably a lot of our listening 394 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: friends are too, with the stages of grief that Elizabeth 395 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 1: Koopler Ross made popular. And know there's I think one 396 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 1: were added to it since her original. But you say 397 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: that that could be a little bit more harmful than helpful. 398 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: So tell us why you think that. 399 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 2: Okay, I should preface this. I'm not a licensed counselor. 400 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 2: I am somebody who has experienced grief and walks with grievers. 401 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 2: I've been doing this for years through ministry. But what 402 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 2: I found it every person I've talked to who has 403 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:35,360 Speaker 2: grief has revealed is that there are no tidy stages, degrees. 404 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 2: If it were only that, I remember somebody coming to 405 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 2: us in fresh grief one day saying she wanted the checklist, 406 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 2: and she literally she was such a type a She 407 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 2: had just like cared for her husband so faithfully for 408 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 2: like eighteen years, like a long time, and now he 409 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 2: was gonna She wanted to get through this and check 410 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 2: it off. And I just thought, Oh, if it were 411 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 2: only that tidy and that easy. But grief is a 412 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 2: messy mix of all kinds of the sometimes conflicting motions. 413 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 2: We can be grateful for some things in your life 414 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 2: and also grieving and also hard questions. It's just this soup. 415 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 2: It's not a linear stop where we walk through them 416 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 2: and then we're done. We tend to cycle and loop 417 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 2: through them. You'll hear about the waves of grief. People 418 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 2: will describe the waves of brief because it's like deep 419 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 2: and it's pulled you under and then you kind of 420 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 2: surface again and you're like, Okay, I see the light, 421 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 2: and then it pulls you under again and you have 422 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 2: to really do this deep work in your heart to 423 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 2: to process of grief. So I like to say that 424 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,360 Speaker 2: the way through grief is not a set, not a method. 425 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 2: It's not a set of stages. The way through grief 426 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 2: is a person, and it's the God of all comfort. 427 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: That is so good. It's the God of all comfort. Okay, 428 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: so how do you feel? You've alluded to this, but 429 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,439 Speaker 1: I want to give somebody that's listening right now and 430 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 1: they're like, Okay, I resonate with all of this. I 431 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: get what she's saying. I understand the waves of grief. 432 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: How I feel like, Okay, maybe today was a good day, 433 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 1: so maybe I'm coming out of it, but then crash, 434 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,439 Speaker 1: Tomorrow's a horrible day, and then we think, oh, what 435 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: is wrong with me? When is this ever going to 436 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: be over? Because I suspect because we all hate pain, 437 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 1: we don't want to be hurt. Who wants to hurt? 438 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: Who wants pain? We are pain avoidant for good reason 439 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: because it feels so bad so we want to get 440 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: through it. But you're saying comfort is found in a person, 441 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: so talk to that person who is in those waves 442 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: and are like, okay, Lisa, take my hand, help me 443 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 1: through this. Like how do I connect with this God 444 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 1: of comfort? I mean, you talked about journaling, but what 445 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,120 Speaker 1: more would you want that friend to know? So often 446 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: in grief we tend to focus on our circumstances, and 447 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: rightly so, there's a lot that has to be processed, 448 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 1: a lot that we're having to evaluate and work through. 449 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,479 Speaker 1: We also can look back at our past. I mean 450 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 1: I cannot tell you how much I looked back and said, 451 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: that's the life that I wanted, that's the life that 452 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 1: I had. Or we can look at other people and 453 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 1: we can think, well, they're all living their best life, 454 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: and look at me. I am walking through this pain. 455 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 2: As you said, But if we can take our eyes 456 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 2: off of ourselves or our past or those around and 457 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 2: fix them on the Lord, that is the way through. 458 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 2: And the thing is whatever pain point we're feeling, God 459 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 2: will meet us there. He is if we are feeling 460 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 2: like homeless, like my home has changed the rhythms that 461 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,439 Speaker 2: I had the way I expected, Like I still have 462 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 2: a shell of a house here, but it's the furniture 463 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 2: has been rearranged, and I am bumping into pain every day, 464 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 2: and everything about my schedule and the things that I 465 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 2: have are rearranged. 466 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: Well. 467 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 2: God tells us that he is our dwelling place, that 468 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 2: he is our home, and so to look for him 469 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 2: to be that. I can remember very clearly in loneliness, 470 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 2: the kids will go to bed, I would be having 471 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,239 Speaker 2: to face during the day, would be okay, because we 472 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 2: were busy. I was busy with them. Grief was still there, 473 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 2: But when they were up in bed, it was just 474 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 2: me downstairs here, I was face to face with his pain. 475 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 2: As you said, how was I going to make it through? 476 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,120 Speaker 2: And what I found in those times was that where 477 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 2: you can almost cut loneliness with a knife, was that 478 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 2: God's sustaining grace was for me. I had always known 479 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 2: his saving grace, but God. Part of God's care character 480 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,199 Speaker 2: is his sustaining grace. He tells Paul, I'm not going 481 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 2: to take the thorn away, but I'm going to give 482 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 2: you grace to sustain you through that pain. And so 483 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 2: I can't really tell you like how it happened like one, 484 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 2: two three this. All I can tell you is God 485 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 2: got me through. God sustained me night after night after 486 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 2: night until it eased and it softened and it was 487 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 2: less to carry. And so every time we need something, 488 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 2: if we're wanting to know if we're afraid of our future, well, 489 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 2: God is the God who goes before us. And to 490 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 2: call out to the God who goes before he says, 491 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 2: He's a God of our hope in our future, and 492 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 2: so to trust him for that the future is scarier. 493 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:38,959 Speaker 2: It's the future we don't want because of loss, to 494 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 2: trust that He is our hope in our future. 495 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,959 Speaker 1: Okay, that brings up a question that I have because 496 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: I think for those of us who are believers, we 497 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: want to trust God in our pain and in our suffering. 498 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: But if we're honest, one of the questions that we 499 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 1: might have is like where are you? Where were you? 500 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 1: Did those questions come into your mind? First of all, 501 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 1: did you have those questions? Where God, how could you 502 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: have allowed this? And why is this happening? And where 503 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: are you? In the suffering? Did you have those questions 504 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,239 Speaker 1: and how did you process that? 505 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,120 Speaker 2: I did wrestle with a bit with why. I think 506 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,679 Speaker 2: we all wrestle with why at some point. I mean, 507 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 2: Dan was a great father. He was the oldest of 508 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 2: four brothers, and he was the one taking care of 509 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,719 Speaker 2: his mom at that point, he had so much who 510 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 2: was like thriving in his work. And I loved seeing 511 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,400 Speaker 2: him finally in a position after some years of frustration 512 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 2: and some work that he loved. And so yeah, why now? 513 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 2: Why him? But I think a better question to ask 514 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 2: is what now? I think here's the thing about why. 515 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,880 Speaker 2: We do wrestle with why, because we think that if 516 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 2: we have the answer to that question that we will 517 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 2: not hurt, it won't hurt as bad. But when in 518 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 2: our children, when they've asked why, when would us telling 519 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 2: the reason? Why? Would it help them endure something that 520 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 2: that is painful for them or is unpleasant for them? 521 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,400 Speaker 2: And if God even told us, why would we understand it? 522 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 2: Asia for fifty five says that his thoughts are higher 523 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,640 Speaker 2: than our thoughts and his ways are higher than our ways. 524 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 2: Would we understand it? And would we agree with it? 525 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 2: I can tell you what I have parented my children 526 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 2: and given them the inside knowledge like this is why. 527 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 2: It's not that they agree with it, it's not that 528 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,159 Speaker 2: they're suddenly willing, and so that wrestling with why is 529 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 2: really a wrestle to surrender. We can ask a question, 530 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 2: we're absolutely allowed to ask a question. We see that 531 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 2: in scripture and the Psalms. We see it, but God 532 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 2: is probably not going to answer it this side of heaven. 533 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 2: And so to lay that question down and instead to say, 534 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 2: but I trust you, but I trust you, I don't. 535 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 2: Fully trusting God does not require us to fully understand 536 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 2: what he's doing. 537 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 1: Fully trusting in God does not require us to fully 538 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: understand what he's doing. That's great. You were kind of 539 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: making this analogy with your children, so let's piggyback on that. 540 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 1: So how did you help your children through this? Because 541 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: not only were you having to process this with the Lord, 542 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: but then you have seven, not just one, not just two, 543 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,919 Speaker 1: but seven children who are grieving, and because there are 544 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: various ages, they probably grieved differently, and you know, they 545 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,919 Speaker 1: have different personalities, different sexes, all that kind of stuff. 546 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: So how did you help your kids? And then, by implication, 547 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 1: how could we help those around us that are processing grief? 548 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 2: I think, knowing what I know now, I probably would 549 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 2: do a few things different. But the one that I 550 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 2: did well, A couple of things that I did well 551 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 2: is one, and anybody walking through grief, one is to 552 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,919 Speaker 2: just love them again. Grief is not a problem to fix. 553 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,439 Speaker 2: It's an experience that griever has to walk, and so 554 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 2: we can love them in it. And so as a parent, 555 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:35,399 Speaker 2: loving them in it could mean keeping the same routines 556 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 2: because that gives our family some steadiness that they can 557 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 2: rely on when so much has changed. It can mean 558 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 2: giving grace in a situation because I know that grief 559 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 2: is taking a toll on multiple ways. It would take 560 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 2: a toll like acting out in a situation, or in 561 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 2: their schoolwork, or just all different ways that it might. 562 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 2: Like when to give grace and when to say no, 563 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 2: this is what our family does, and like go ahead 564 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 2: and parent like they're probably just acting like an eight 565 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 2: year old. This is what eight year olds do. So 566 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 2: I think trying to understand our children and parent them 567 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 2: where they were. The third thing that I did that 568 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 2: I think is very important for anybody dealing with children 569 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 2: is to be honest with them at an age appropriate level, 570 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 2: so you don't answer questions that they're not asking. What 571 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,160 Speaker 2: if my four year old doesn't ask questions about how 572 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,640 Speaker 2: daddy died, like physically what was happening? That I don't 573 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 2: need to explain that to her right now. But my 574 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 2: six year old did ask very very quickly. In a 575 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 2: car ride, we have like the Beach Boys music going. 576 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 2: We had been away for a trip specifically to get 577 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 2: away just our little family, to have a reset. We 578 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 2: had a great weekend. We were coming back and he said, 579 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 2: I don't want to die like Daddy died, And so 580 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 2: I had to turn the music off and to answer 581 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 2: him honestly, I couldn't say, oh, that'll never happen. And 582 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:45,679 Speaker 2: also what about me? 583 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: What about you? 584 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 2: Mom? And so I had we were able to walk 585 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 2: through those issues like God. Psalm one point thirty nine 586 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 2: says that God, every one of our days has been 587 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 2: recorded in his book foot wore one of them came 588 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 2: to be, And so God knows the day of our 589 00:27:58,320 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 2: birth and the day of our death. And we can 590 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 2: wear seatbelts and we can wear sunscreen. But God and 591 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,160 Speaker 2: sovereignly holds all of our days in his hand. 592 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: We just have to trust that. 593 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 2: So I think to honestly answer our children, but on 594 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 2: an age appropriate level is huge. 595 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: That's good. Okay. Well, you said you did a couple 596 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: of things that you wish you had done differently. So 597 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 1: one of the things that you were, like, Eh, I 598 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: wish i'd done that differently. 599 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 2: I wish that I had required counseling. We did a 600 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 2: lot of talking in our family. We read books. I 601 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,120 Speaker 2: intentionally read books. We were homeschooling, so we were home anyways, 602 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 2: and we could kind of grieve things together. And I 603 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 2: felt like keeping that open conversation was enough and talking 604 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 2: through it was enough. But I have just seen them 605 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 2: for all of my children. But I think for a 606 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 2: couple of my children it would have helped, and even 607 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 2: those who didn't maybe need it. I think saying we'll 608 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 2: just go twice, just go twice, and if you think 609 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 2: you're fine, that's okay, but let's just see. I was 610 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 2: not in counseling. I was just with the word of God, 611 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 2: and the word of God was counseling. The Holy Spirit 612 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 2: was counseling me through that, and my network of friends 613 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 2: and family were really for me. But I wish that 614 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 2: I had just kind of said, let's do this as 615 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 2: a family, and if you don't need it, that's fine, 616 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 2: but it's always here for you. 617 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: Oh that's really insightful. So as we're winding up here, 618 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: I want you to just speak to what you hope 619 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: readers will get by reading your book, and then tell 620 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: us how they can get a copy of your book, 621 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: because I know that many of our listeners will want 622 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: to grab your book. Yeah. 623 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 2: Well, I hope that for the person who's grieving, I 624 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 2: hope that she will feel seen, that through each one 625 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 2: of these devotionals, which touches on a particular pain point 626 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 2: along the journey of grief, that she will feel a connection. 627 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 2: And it's not just about widows. There are stories in 628 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 2: there of a friend of mine who lost two parents 629 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 2: in a single car accident. People have lost children or 630 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 2: adult children, so it's many ways that we can experience 631 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 2: grief for the loss of a person. But I hope 632 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 2: that she will not only feel seen, but also see 633 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 2: God for who he is for her. One of the 634 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 2: most impactful things I think that I discovered in writing 635 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 2: this was a verse that says God, God is for you, 636 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 2: and I don't know, don I always just felt like 637 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 2: that was a platitude, that that was something we put 638 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 2: on coffee mugs or T shirts, like God is for you, 639 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 2: a raw rodch here. But seeing that in scripture that 640 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 2: God is for you, I could not move my eyes 641 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 2: off of that. And that was just so impactful for 642 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 2: me to know that God is not just only with 643 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 2: me in this. He's not only gone before me in this. 644 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 2: He's not only provided everything I need to walk through this, 645 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 2: to shepherd me through this, but He is for me 646 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 2: in this that I have a hope and a future, 647 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 2: that the one who's listening to this, all of the 648 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 2: good is not behind you. You will experience joy again. 649 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 2: You will come to a place where this grief has 650 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 2: softened and lessened. It will always be there. We will 651 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 2: not be fully healed until we get home to heaven, right, 652 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 2: but God promises that he will heal the broken hearted, 653 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 2: and that he is near to the broken hearted. And 654 00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 2: so I pray that the person who's reading this book 655 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 2: just has a day after day an opportunity to connect 656 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,479 Speaker 2: with her Father who is for her. And then you 657 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 2: can find me. If you want to find out about 658 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 2: the book, you can go to God ofcomfortbook dot com 659 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 2: and there's all the information there. And then I'm on 660 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 2: the socials at Lisa Appolo and on my website at 661 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 2: lisao Love It. 662 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: We will put all of that information in the show 663 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 1: notes and we're doing a giveaway for Lisa's books, so 664 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 1: make sure you put your name in to win that coffee. So, Lisa, 665 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: thank you so much for being on the podcast and 666 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: for writing this book. And I know that it is 667 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 1: going to be really a lifeline for so many of us. 668 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: So thank you so much. 669 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for creating the space for this conversation. 670 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Well, wasn't that a great conversation. As 671 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: a reminder, we are giving away a copy of Lisa's 672 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: brand new book, It is Hot off the press again. 673 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: All you have to do for your chance to win 674 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 1: is just simply leave a review on this time and 675 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: if you're the lucky winner, we'll be sending the book 676 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 1: your way. And I want to remind you that if 677 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 1: we haven't connected on social media, let's do it on Instagram. 678 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: I'm Donna A. Jones, Facebook Donna Jones, Speaker and author, 679 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: or head to my website. There are so many free 680 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: resources there and I send out a newsletter. I would 681 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 1: love to connect with you, just in a more intimate, 682 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: personal way through that, and as always my friend, I 683 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: can't wait to see you next time, for that's just 684 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: what I needed.