1 00:00:08,257 --> 00:00:09,457 Speaker 1: Life audio. 2 00:00:11,137 --> 00:00:13,297 Speaker 2: Find inspiration as close as your phone. 3 00:00:13,457 --> 00:00:16,697 Speaker 3: Download the Jesus Calling app and get started today for free. 4 00:00:17,097 --> 00:00:19,337 Speaker 2: Look for the Jesus Calling app in both the Apple 5 00:00:19,497 --> 00:00:31,697 Speaker 2: and Google Play stores. Hi everybody, I'm Susie McIntyre, eaton 6 00:00:31,857 --> 00:00:36,016 Speaker 2: for Jesus. Listen Stories of Prayer. The second episode of 7 00:00:36,257 --> 00:00:42,177 Speaker 2: our podcast with doctor Allander and doctor Steve Call is 8 00:00:42,257 --> 00:00:46,657 Speaker 2: so amazing. We're going to get deeper into how our 9 00:00:47,857 --> 00:00:53,056 Speaker 2: methods of relating, our methods of communicating may be influencing 10 00:00:53,457 --> 00:00:59,137 Speaker 2: the awareness of our marriage. So stay tuned. We're going 11 00:00:59,217 --> 00:01:03,217 Speaker 2: to go into the studio and speak with doctor Steve 12 00:01:03,297 --> 00:01:07,137 Speaker 2: Call and doctor Dan Allender out their new book, The 13 00:01:07,217 --> 00:01:12,337 Speaker 2: Deep Rooted Marriage. We're here with doctor Dan Allender and 14 00:01:12,497 --> 00:01:16,177 Speaker 2: doctor Steve Call. It is so good to be with 15 00:01:16,217 --> 00:01:19,337 Speaker 2: you guys. Again. This is part two, so if you 16 00:01:19,537 --> 00:01:22,377 Speaker 2: did miss the first one, you need to go back 17 00:01:22,417 --> 00:01:24,977 Speaker 2: and get just a little bit more of a background 18 00:01:25,017 --> 00:01:26,337 Speaker 2: on what we're talking about. 19 00:01:26,537 --> 00:01:31,257 Speaker 4: You talk about the intention to bless and moving into 20 00:01:31,417 --> 00:01:35,457 Speaker 4: each other's stories, or each other's trauma, or each other's 21 00:01:35,897 --> 00:01:42,657 Speaker 4: trigger points or whatever it is that is alive. Right then, 22 00:01:43,257 --> 00:01:47,097 Speaker 4: in holding the intention to bless, can you say more 23 00:01:47,137 --> 00:01:47,817 Speaker 4: about that. 24 00:01:48,137 --> 00:01:51,937 Speaker 3: Contempt, which we talked a little bit about the last time, 25 00:01:52,377 --> 00:01:55,257 Speaker 3: is a form of judgment. It's a way of making 26 00:01:55,337 --> 00:02:00,657 Speaker 3: the other person pay because their differences create disappointment and 27 00:02:00,697 --> 00:02:04,897 Speaker 3: there is division. When we feel unsafe, we feel in 28 00:02:04,937 --> 00:02:08,177 Speaker 3: some ways a little bit lost, we often make our 29 00:02:08,217 --> 00:02:12,657 Speaker 3: spouse pay. Well. Is at that moment where we're doing 30 00:02:12,697 --> 00:02:19,017 Speaker 3: the very opposite blessing. Blessing truly is I want glory 31 00:02:19,377 --> 00:02:24,937 Speaker 3: and goodness and beauty for you, and I know God 32 00:02:25,057 --> 00:02:29,337 Speaker 3: has enabled me to be the face of God on 33 00:02:29,377 --> 00:02:33,257 Speaker 3: your behalf. So in that's we are passing on to 34 00:02:33,377 --> 00:02:37,297 Speaker 3: the other something of the great blessing and number six 35 00:02:37,657 --> 00:02:41,817 Speaker 3: of may His Face shine upon you. We get to 36 00:02:41,817 --> 00:02:45,377 Speaker 3: be the face of God shining upon our spouse even 37 00:02:45,977 --> 00:02:51,337 Speaker 3: in the midst of hard, hard conversations. That's what we 38 00:02:51,457 --> 00:02:52,777 Speaker 3: mean by blessing. 39 00:02:53,017 --> 00:02:54,977 Speaker 2: Doctor Carle, What do you want to say about it? 40 00:02:55,137 --> 00:02:57,017 Speaker 5: You know, the face of God on behalf of our spouse. 41 00:02:57,057 --> 00:03:00,737 Speaker 5: I think that's a really beautiful image. The way you 42 00:03:00,777 --> 00:03:04,417 Speaker 5: just describe the story around where did that come from? 43 00:03:04,657 --> 00:03:06,777 Speaker 5: You know, like when we're have this interaction between us 44 00:03:06,777 --> 00:03:08,657 Speaker 5: as spouses and you're like, where did that come from? 45 00:03:08,817 --> 00:03:11,457 Speaker 5: Or it comes from somebody else, I think that where 46 00:03:11,457 --> 00:03:12,817 Speaker 5: did you come from? How is that asked? 47 00:03:12,937 --> 00:03:13,177 Speaker 6: Again? 48 00:03:13,217 --> 00:03:15,897 Speaker 5: How's that question asked? What's the posture of the wondering? 49 00:03:16,377 --> 00:03:18,617 Speaker 5: Is it a tone of accusation or blame, or is 50 00:03:18,657 --> 00:03:21,737 Speaker 5: it again a tone of wondering, a tone of curiosity? 51 00:03:21,777 --> 00:03:23,537 Speaker 5: And I think if we hope for nothing else that 52 00:03:23,577 --> 00:03:26,137 Speaker 5: really is it is inviting couples to be aware of 53 00:03:26,137 --> 00:03:28,577 Speaker 5: the posture in which they ask that question. And so 54 00:03:28,617 --> 00:03:31,097 Speaker 5: of course there's a protective response of what are you 55 00:03:31,137 --> 00:03:33,217 Speaker 5: going to do with what I reveal to you? What 56 00:03:33,337 --> 00:03:35,337 Speaker 5: are you going to do with what I share with you? 57 00:03:35,817 --> 00:03:39,977 Speaker 5: That's often the again that I want to really honor 58 00:03:40,057 --> 00:03:42,537 Speaker 5: the need to protect, like that's what fear says. Fear 59 00:03:42,537 --> 00:03:46,057 Speaker 5: protects us, But it's the illusion of protection that actually, 60 00:03:46,417 --> 00:03:48,457 Speaker 5: more often than not at the opposite of that that 61 00:03:48,537 --> 00:03:52,057 Speaker 5: actually it does create safety, it does create intimacy. But 62 00:03:52,217 --> 00:03:57,217 Speaker 5: fear says, don't fear says, don't expose, don't reveal, because 63 00:03:57,377 --> 00:03:59,177 Speaker 5: at times it might have been in the past you 64 00:03:59,257 --> 00:04:01,697 Speaker 5: used to harm us in some form or another. So 65 00:04:01,737 --> 00:04:04,777 Speaker 5: it's a form of safety. But again, the illusion of safety. 66 00:04:05,537 --> 00:04:09,217 Speaker 2: When we get married, we want this person to always 67 00:04:09,297 --> 00:04:14,297 Speaker 2: stay that person. We all know they are not going 68 00:04:14,377 --> 00:04:19,017 Speaker 2: to stay the same. How can we let go of 69 00:04:19,057 --> 00:04:22,376 Speaker 2: that expectation that they'll always be the same as when 70 00:04:22,376 --> 00:04:23,097 Speaker 2: we married them. 71 00:04:23,577 --> 00:04:25,856 Speaker 3: So one of the things that we underline in the 72 00:04:25,856 --> 00:04:29,897 Speaker 3: book is how important it is that we name what 73 00:04:30,137 --> 00:04:34,057 Speaker 3: drew us to one another, because it wasn't just the 74 00:04:34,097 --> 00:04:37,177 Speaker 3: beauty and the physicality of the other. There was something 75 00:04:37,376 --> 00:04:42,416 Speaker 3: about the other that promised, without even knowing it, redemption, 76 00:04:43,017 --> 00:04:47,696 Speaker 3: a change, something of a return of the loss, a 77 00:04:48,097 --> 00:04:51,976 Speaker 3: kind of restoration of what was stolen. And in all that, 78 00:04:52,697 --> 00:04:57,217 Speaker 3: if we were to actually say, our marriages are meant 79 00:04:57,296 --> 00:05:01,337 Speaker 3: to redeem us, to restore us, and it's going to 80 00:05:01,416 --> 00:05:06,976 Speaker 3: be just like any other form of sanctification, a disrupt active, messy, 81 00:05:07,496 --> 00:05:13,496 Speaker 3: complex and lifetime process, then we have then the commitment 82 00:05:13,616 --> 00:05:16,976 Speaker 3: not to change one another, but in so many ways, 83 00:05:17,017 --> 00:05:21,656 Speaker 3: to be transformed by one another. It's the very part 84 00:05:21,736 --> 00:05:25,577 Speaker 3: of us God has created for all mammals that long 85 00:05:25,816 --> 00:05:30,376 Speaker 3: for connection and intimacy, and, as Steve put it, for safety. 86 00:05:30,777 --> 00:05:34,416 Speaker 3: And yet oftentimes it's how we move into a conflict, 87 00:05:34,816 --> 00:05:39,096 Speaker 3: not the avoidance that allows for a sense of oh, 88 00:05:39,137 --> 00:05:42,577 Speaker 3: there is safety even though we differ, even though there 89 00:05:42,657 --> 00:05:47,217 Speaker 3: is a potential for conflict growing. I know you are 90 00:05:47,416 --> 00:05:51,816 Speaker 3: pursuing me, and that changes the tonality. 91 00:05:52,296 --> 00:05:56,657 Speaker 4: Intimacy calls me to it to be known at levels 92 00:05:56,697 --> 00:06:00,616 Speaker 4: I don't want to be known. I'd just rather not 93 00:06:01,097 --> 00:06:03,817 Speaker 4: talk about it. It's fine if she talks about it, 94 00:06:03,856 --> 00:06:09,017 Speaker 4: but I'd rather maintain the Stowe aloof caregiver. And so 95 00:06:09,856 --> 00:06:14,856 Speaker 4: what advice would you give or framework of thinking would 96 00:06:14,856 --> 00:06:19,496 Speaker 4: you give to me to help embolden me to step 97 00:06:19,697 --> 00:06:24,217 Speaker 4: into more of wisely trusting her with parts of me 98 00:06:24,457 --> 00:06:25,576 Speaker 4: I'm not even sure of. 99 00:06:26,416 --> 00:06:28,936 Speaker 5: Literally, when we expose ourselves to what we're afraid of 100 00:06:29,217 --> 00:06:33,177 Speaker 5: and we weren't harmed, oh, it reinforces now the narrative, Oh, 101 00:06:33,416 --> 00:06:36,056 Speaker 5: I can step toward what I'm afraid of in and 102 00:06:36,097 --> 00:06:36,617 Speaker 5: not harmony. 103 00:06:38,137 --> 00:06:44,217 Speaker 4: In a perfect dialogue, that would be true. But what 104 00:06:44,376 --> 00:06:47,937 Speaker 4: about for the people who they have exposed their fears, 105 00:06:48,017 --> 00:06:54,097 Speaker 4: maybe in not a very articulate way, and their spouse 106 00:06:54,257 --> 00:06:55,617 Speaker 4: didn't handle that. 107 00:06:56,376 --> 00:07:01,257 Speaker 3: Just naming the impact of that interaction where you're not 108 00:07:01,657 --> 00:07:06,456 Speaker 3: blaming the other, but the primary word is I know 109 00:07:07,137 --> 00:07:10,257 Speaker 3: my own response to you right now is not what 110 00:07:10,337 --> 00:07:14,337 Speaker 3: I want to be. So in that beginning point, then 111 00:07:14,417 --> 00:07:20,657 Speaker 3: the question becomes do you want to engage differently. Do 112 00:07:20,697 --> 00:07:24,937 Speaker 3: you want a different interaction now? Can you go begin 113 00:07:25,017 --> 00:07:28,257 Speaker 3: the process of engaging what's happening in your own heart? 114 00:07:28,497 --> 00:07:33,897 Speaker 3: So having the ability to name, confess, but also honor 115 00:07:34,337 --> 00:07:38,697 Speaker 3: by inviting, but where the invitation cannot be held well, 116 00:07:39,297 --> 00:07:43,177 Speaker 3: being able to honor well, we need at least some 117 00:07:43,417 --> 00:07:46,777 Speaker 3: degree of momentary separation. I need to go tend to 118 00:07:46,816 --> 00:07:49,377 Speaker 3: my heart. You need to go tend to yours. That 119 00:07:49,497 --> 00:07:54,057 Speaker 3: is an avoidance. That's creating a context to create different 120 00:07:54,217 --> 00:07:55,696 Speaker 3: levels of new safety. 121 00:07:56,217 --> 00:07:58,697 Speaker 2: I mean, we're all being real with you today. We 122 00:07:58,816 --> 00:08:02,977 Speaker 2: all have our problems. Even doctor Allender and doctor Call 123 00:08:03,137 --> 00:08:07,137 Speaker 2: who talk about this en road, this book right here, 124 00:08:07,657 --> 00:08:11,136 Speaker 2: they still have to practice what they preach. Guys, we 125 00:08:11,297 --> 00:08:15,776 Speaker 2: always close the episode with a reading from Jesus. Listen 126 00:08:15,937 --> 00:08:17,857 Speaker 2: stories of prayer, and. 127 00:08:17,857 --> 00:08:23,816 Speaker 6: This is April nineteenth. All knowing God, you have searched 128 00:08:23,857 --> 00:08:27,777 Speaker 6: me and known me. You understand my thoughts from afar, 129 00:08:28,017 --> 00:08:31,817 Speaker 6: and you are intimately acquainted with all of my ways. 130 00:08:32,417 --> 00:08:34,937 Speaker 6: How thankful I am to be fully known by you. 131 00:08:35,577 --> 00:08:39,337 Speaker 6: Everything about me is visible to you, including my most 132 00:08:39,497 --> 00:08:44,177 Speaker 6: secret thoughts and feelings. This transparency would terrify me if 133 00:08:44,217 --> 00:08:47,857 Speaker 6: I were not your beloved child. But I have nothing 134 00:08:47,937 --> 00:08:51,657 Speaker 6: to fear because your perfect righteousness has been credited to 135 00:08:51,817 --> 00:08:55,497 Speaker 6: me through my faith in you. I'm so grateful to 136 00:08:55,537 --> 00:09:00,177 Speaker 6: be a permanent member of your royal family. I can 137 00:09:00,217 --> 00:09:02,937 Speaker 6: dive right in asking you to help me cope with 138 00:09:03,017 --> 00:09:06,537 Speaker 6: the things I'm facing, and I can spend time just 139 00:09:06,697 --> 00:09:11,257 Speaker 6: relaxing with you, breathing in the joy of your presence 140 00:09:11,817 --> 00:09:15,937 Speaker 6: and your royal name. Jesus, Amen, what. 141 00:09:16,097 --> 00:09:18,777 Speaker 2: An honor it has been for me to be with 142 00:09:18,857 --> 00:09:22,537 Speaker 2: you on this two part series of Jesus Listen stories 143 00:09:22,577 --> 00:09:25,937 Speaker 2: of Prayer. I want to thank doctor Allander and doctor 144 00:09:26,017 --> 00:09:29,257 Speaker 2: Call for taking the time out of their precious schedule 145 00:09:29,617 --> 00:09:33,417 Speaker 2: to be with us to enrich our lives. We'll be 146 00:09:33,497 --> 00:09:36,857 Speaker 2: back with another guest at another time, but until then, 147 00:09:36,977 --> 00:09:40,737 Speaker 2: I want you to remember something that Jesus hears you, 148 00:09:40,897 --> 00:09:44,177 Speaker 2: he cares for you, and he's just a prayer away. 149 00:09:45,057 --> 00:09:48,017 Speaker 2: I'll see you next time. I'm Susie McIntyre Eaton. 150 00:09:56,097 --> 00:09:58,937 Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us on social media and on 151 00:09:58,977 --> 00:10:01,937 Speaker 1: the Jesus Calling Podcast on Apple or wherever you got 152 00:10:01,977 --> 00:10:04,457 Speaker 1: your podcasts so that you can keep up with our 153 00:10:04,497 --> 00:10:07,897 Speaker 1: weekly audio episode in special monthly series like this one, 154 00:10:08,297 --> 00:10:10,817 Speaker 1: and be sure to subscribe to the Jesus Calling channel 155 00:10:10,857 --> 00:10:14,377 Speaker 1: on YouTube, where you'll find the video version of this interview. 156 00:10:14,777 --> 00:10:15,577 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.