Speaker 1: Life Audio.
Speaker 2: Hi there, and welcome to the Praying Christian Women podcast.
Speaker 2: I'm Jamie Hampton and today I am really excited to
Speaker 2: have a special guest with us. We have Sarah Fox
Speaker 2: with us today. Sarah is a graduate of Liberty University.
Speaker 2: She has an MS in Criminal Justice in forensic Psychology.
Speaker 2: She's an alumna of the King's College with a BA
Speaker 2: in Politics, Philosophy and Economics with a pre law miner
Speaker 2: So she does all the things and she's also the
Speaker 2: host of the Rough Edges podcast. Most importantly, Sarah shares
Speaker 2: about her own story, her own struggles with mental health,
Speaker 2: with her journey, her healing journey, her faith journey, and
Speaker 2: really the intersection between faith and mental illness, which is
Speaker 2: so needed. So, Sarah, thank you for being here. I
Speaker 2: just can't thank you enough for being willing and courageous
Speaker 2: enough to just share so transparently all of what you're
Speaker 2: going through have been through because it's needed, it's so needed.
Speaker 2: So thank you for being here. We really are excited
Speaker 2: to talk with you.
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, we like to ask all of our guests before
Speaker 2: we get into our actual conversation, what is your favorite
Speaker 2: prayer closet, So it's in air quotes because it could
Speaker 2: be an actual closet, it could be a room, it
Speaker 2: could be something off the wall, like you know, outside
Speaker 2: or somewhere even crazier. So where do you like to
Speaker 2: meet with God?
Speaker 3: I love to meet with God in my room and
Speaker 3: I usually turn on like a sunset lamp has like
Speaker 3: a nice like purple aura because I love purple, and
Speaker 3: I have my journal and my Bible and it's just
Speaker 3: a time where I could just decompress and really speak
Speaker 3: to Him.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 2: Lighting is so important to me too. I have problems
Speaker 2: with like bright fluorescent lighting. My husband can't stand it
Speaker 2: because in our kitchen we have like kind of dim
Speaker 2: are like little round lights that you can adjust, and
Speaker 2: then we have like the big blasting lights, and he
Speaker 2: always comes on and flips on the big lights.
Speaker 1: He's like, why do you like to work in the dark.
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, it's it's ambiance. But yeah, I love that. Well,
Speaker 2: for listeners who don't know your story, can you just
Speaker 2: kind of start from the beginning and share about your story,
Speaker 2: so you know, like when did you meet the Lord?
Speaker 1: When did you become a believer?
Speaker 3: Yes, so I grew up in a Christian household, and
Speaker 3: so I met the Lord at a very young age,
Speaker 3: like around nine years old. And from there God has
Speaker 3: just been showing up in ways that I can't even
Speaker 3: begin to describe, like He's been such a faithful God
Speaker 3: and I in my journey. I recently got diagnosed with
Speaker 3: bipolar disorder in January of twenty twenty one, and that
Speaker 3: was really where a crisis of faith started because I
Speaker 3: wanted to know why God would allow it to happen.
Speaker 3: I was angry at God, and for many months there
Speaker 3: was this tug of war going on on the inside
Speaker 3: where I felt like God. I knew God was with me,
Speaker 3: but I also was like wrestling with the fact that
Speaker 3: He would allow this to happen. And so given that
Speaker 3: I had the bipolar diagnosis, I was able to not
Speaker 3: only find a regimen that worked for me in terms
Speaker 3: of like medication and getting to stability, but also I
Speaker 3: was able to have a renewed sense of faith in
Speaker 3: God where He became real to me in such a
Speaker 3: new way, and I was able to not only understand
Speaker 3: that my faith is what drives the hope that I have,
Speaker 3: to be able to really understand how to deal with
Speaker 3: mental health. But it also showed me that no matter
Speaker 3: what season of life that I'm in, God is my
Speaker 3: anchor and he keeps me grounded in no matter what
Speaker 3: type of time that I'm having.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I feel like when we face difficult times,
Speaker 2: we have kind of this like one or the other
Speaker 2: response to it. I think as Christians we either like
Speaker 2: are just so angry and so confused and so frustrated
Speaker 2: that we turn away from God, or we're so angry
Speaker 2: and so frustrated and so confused we kind of like
Speaker 2: turn into Him and just kind of beat our fists
Speaker 2: into his chest until he gives us answers. What do
Speaker 2: you think, Like did you ever have a temptation to
Speaker 2: just leave your faith and to just say I'm out?
Speaker 2: Like either he doesn't care or maybe he's not even there, Like,
Speaker 2: what are your thoughts on kind of how that process
Speaker 2: worked for you?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I actually he did have a time. It was
Speaker 3: after my grandfather passed away where I was really wrestling
Speaker 3: with the grief and also wondering how a good God
Speaker 3: could just keep allowing all these things to happen. And
Speaker 3: it felt like a pile up from being diagnosed with
Speaker 3: bipolar disorder, and then having a death in the family
Speaker 3: and then other personal issues going around surrounding that. So
Speaker 3: it felt like a very tumultuous time, and I was
Speaker 3: so close to saying, God, I'm hanging this up, like
Speaker 3: you don't really care about me. There's so much going on.
Speaker 3: But even in the midst of those feelings, I understood
Speaker 3: that God can handle them. A lot of the times
Speaker 3: we think that God can't handle distress and the emotions
Speaker 3: that come up with when we doubt him, but he
Speaker 3: can and he does understand and what we're going through.
Speaker 3: And so that's what kept me going in the faith,
Speaker 3: like understanding that God does know about my issues and
Speaker 3: he does know how to be there in the midst
Speaker 3: of them, even when I don't want to talk to him,
Speaker 3: even when I feel like he's just not responding in
Speaker 3: the way that I would like. I know that He
Speaker 3: can understand my emotions and that he could be able
Speaker 3: to provide whether it's through somebody else or whether it's
Speaker 3: through a worship song, or whether it's through a message
Speaker 3: something to get me back on track. And so that's
Speaker 3: one of the things that I value about my relationship
Speaker 3: with God.
Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of just being known, even in the midst
Speaker 2: of the hard things, knowing that He knows you. And
Speaker 2: what would you say to someone like, as a first
Speaker 2: step if they're listening right now and they're going through
Speaker 2: something or some things that are just unspeakably hard and
Speaker 2: they're tempted to walk away, or maybe they've walked away
Speaker 2: and they just you know, came across this by chance
Speaker 2: or you know, through divine providence, Like, what would you
Speaker 2: advise them as a first step to take in the
Speaker 2: midst of the pain, to at least like move in
Speaker 2: a direction toward allowing God back into their life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would definitely say it's never too late to
Speaker 3: turn back to God. I think, especially if you did
Speaker 3: walk away from God, there's almost that feeling that you
Speaker 3: can never go back and you can go back. Especially
Speaker 3: with the story of the prodigal Son. I love that
Speaker 3: story so much because in that story, for those who
Speaker 3: are not familiar, there was a younger son who wanted
Speaker 3: his inheritance, and he squandered his inheritance and thought that
Speaker 3: he couldn't go back to his father. And when he
Speaker 3: did eventually go back, his father was there to welcome
Speaker 3: him with open arms and to say welcome back, like
Speaker 3: my son was lost but now he's found. And it's
Speaker 3: such a beautiful depiction of God's love towards us that
Speaker 3: even when we turn away, he is there to welcome
Speaker 3: us back with open arms. So I would tell that
Speaker 3: person it's never too late to turn back, and God
Speaker 3: is waiting for you. He is always there for you
Speaker 3: to return to him, and so don't be afraid to
Speaker 3: turn back because it's never too late.
Speaker 1: I love that and that story.
Speaker 2: The interesting thing to me is the other brother was
Speaker 2: so mad that his dad took his other brother back,
Speaker 2: and that just shows like we read the story and
Speaker 2: we're like, okay, he did all these things, but the
Speaker 2: extent of the insult that that was to his family
Speaker 2: and to his father, I mean, he didn't just go
Speaker 2: off and party for a little bit and come back
Speaker 2: like it was a very grave insult and sin. And
Speaker 2: the response to that brother I think should remind us
Speaker 2: how gravely that son had sinned against his father, and
Speaker 2: yet he was just welcomed back with those open arms.
Speaker 2: And I think we can be both of those people.
Speaker 2: I think there's a part of us that's that other
Speaker 2: brother saying you don't deserve this, You don't deserve this love.
Speaker 2: And I just think to be able to talk to
Speaker 2: that voice and say, Nope, that's not true, it's biblical.
Speaker 1: So thank you for sharing that part of your story.
Speaker 2: If we could rewind a little, can you talk about
Speaker 2: like the time. So how old were you when you
Speaker 2: started to notice something was off and not right?
Speaker 3: That's a great question. I would say sixteen years old
Speaker 3: because in high school I would have a lot of
Speaker 3: different like ranges of mood, and I thought I was
Speaker 3: just dealing with depression because when I got depressed, it
Speaker 3: was a very deep depression, and so I decided to
Speaker 3: see a therapist. Fast forward in college, and I was
Speaker 3: actually the first one in my family and my immediate
Speaker 3: family to go to therapy, and so everybody was wondering,
Speaker 3: like what's going on, Like are you okay? Like you
Speaker 3: don't have to speak to a stranger. But I knew
Speaker 3: deep down that there was something off, especially with the
Speaker 3: bouts of depression that I was having. And then I
Speaker 3: would have almost a change where I would go into
Speaker 3: a hyperactive mode where I would be so happy, so
Speaker 3: on top of the world, and then I would plummet
Speaker 3: back down into the depression. So I knew that that
Speaker 3: wasn't really normal in terms of like an emotional balance.
Speaker 3: So when I went to therapy, I discovered that I
Speaker 3: might have a mood disorder, but we didn't know exactly
Speaker 3: what it was, and at the time, I was a
Speaker 3: little afraid to go to a psychiatrist. So I was like,
Speaker 3: you know what, I'm just going to stick it out
Speaker 3: in therapy and this is working for me, and that's
Speaker 3: about it. So I really knew that something was wrong
Speaker 3: in those high school years, but I also attributed it
Speaker 3: to puberty and the range of emotions that teenagers can experience.
Speaker 3: That's what I thought was happening. So I don't want
Speaker 3: to say that I didn't take it seriously, but I
Speaker 3: was at a point where I was like, I'm not
Speaker 3: gonna go further and delve into all of this because
Speaker 3: I just needed the therapy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think you bring up a really good
Speaker 2: point just even going to therapy, you know. I think
Speaker 2: that's true for so many of us, and especially in
Speaker 2: the Christian faith. Like I think there's this stigma, and
Speaker 2: I thank god it's changing.
Speaker 1: I think the more people speak.
Speaker 2: Out about it, the less of a stigma there is.
Speaker 2: But there's just this idea, especially in family were you're
Speaker 2: the first one to go to therapy. What's wrong with
Speaker 2: you? You don't need therapy, just talk to us. Why are
Speaker 2: you talking to a stranger? I think that hits the
Speaker 2: nail on the head. And to even go to therapy
Speaker 2: was probably huge for you. And then like to take
Speaker 2: that next step to go to a psychiatrist to maybe
Speaker 2: pursue medication or diagnosis or whatever like that would be
Speaker 2: even further into the unknown for the people that.
Speaker 1: Were surrounding you.
Speaker 2: And and so I'm just appreciative that you brought that
Speaker 2: up because I think in the Christian side of things,
Speaker 2: there's also this I think maybe like a shame, like, well,
Speaker 2: why can't you just pray it away? Why can't you
Speaker 2: just read your Bible more and think good things? You know,
Speaker 2: whatever is good and noble and pure and excellent and praiseworthy.
Speaker 2: Just think about that stuff and then you know, kind
Speaker 2: of manage it through prayer and reading your Bible. Which
Speaker 2: we don't manage diabetes through that, or high cholesterol or
Speaker 2: blood pressure or you know. I mean, yes, I always
Speaker 2: want to make sure people know, well, prayer is the
Speaker 2: foundation in the backbone of everything. Medication is extra. But
Speaker 2: I don't think God meant for us to deny all
Speaker 2: medical interventions and only pray because we're supposed to be
Speaker 2: praying and it will always make things better because you're
Speaker 2: involving God. But that permission needs to be given. I
Speaker 2: think like it's okay to go to therapy, it's okay
Speaker 2: to pursue a diagnosis and medication and help. So what
Speaker 2: did that look like for you taking that next step?
Speaker 2: When did that happen? How long did it take for
Speaker 2: that to happen.
Speaker 3: So I just want to also to your point, Jamie,
Speaker 3: that you made earlier about us as Christians not really
Speaker 3: understanding the gravity of mental health until we get to
Speaker 3: crisis mode. And I was in that situation where I
Speaker 3: knew that there was something off. I went to therapy.
Speaker 3: I was told that it was a mood disorder, but
Speaker 3: we didn't know exactly what it was, and I just
Speaker 3: kind of let it sit until I was in crisis mode.
Speaker 3: And that crisis came through a manic episode. And what
Speaker 3: that looks like is that you are very incoherent while
Speaker 3: you're in the episode, and you also feel like you're invincible.
Speaker 3: You're on top of the world danger is not a
Speaker 3: thing to you. And you also have like these moments
Speaker 3: where you're talking extremely fast no one can really keep up.
Speaker 3: And you also have a decreased need for sleep, so
Speaker 3: you could sleep for like two hours and wake up
Speaker 3: feeling refreshed like you slept for eight or nine. And
Speaker 3: that was what I was experiencing for a couple of weeks.
Speaker 3: And it was my family that was like, WHOA, what
Speaker 3: is going on? Like this is a lot that you're
Speaker 3: going through. What is happening? And so while I was
Speaker 3: really going through that, my mother, sister, they were the
Speaker 3: ones that you know, called the ambulance. And that's when
Speaker 3: I went to the hospital. And it wasn't until I
Speaker 3: experienced my first hospitalization that I was able to get
Speaker 3: on medication and get into the right treatment plan and
Speaker 3: to get to that stage of stability. But I say
Speaker 3: all this to say that a lot of the times
Speaker 3: we wait till the crisis happens in order to actually
Speaker 3: go through with treatment and to even take that first
Speaker 3: step to get help. And so I would encourage everybody
Speaker 3: listening not to wait till it gets to crisis mode.
Speaker 3: Like if you are experiencing something and you feel a
Speaker 3: little bit off or you're experiencing symptoms. The same way
Speaker 3: that you would tell your doctor that you're experiencing certain
Speaker 3: symptoms and that something's off. You can tell a therapist
Speaker 3: that something is off. You can tell a psychiatrist that's
Speaker 3: something is off. Like these things don't have to be
Speaker 3: out of the realm of possibility, Like we can go
Speaker 3: to mental health professionals for help. And so that's when
Speaker 3: it was a problem for me because I let it
Speaker 3: go into crisis mode.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's such a good point. And again, just like
Speaker 2: giving that permission is huge for people who might not
Speaker 2: take that step otherwise. So can you talk about during
Speaker 2: that time, you know, what was your relationship with God,
Speaker 2: Like what were your conversations with God? Like, and during
Speaker 2: that difficult time leading up to that crisis point and
Speaker 2: then after.
Speaker 3: So leading up to the crisis point, my relationship with
Speaker 3: God was it was very close. Like I would pray
Speaker 3: about everything like I would if I was dealing with
Speaker 3: the slightest stake, I would bring it to God. And
Speaker 3: I was also bringing my depressive thoughts and everything to
Speaker 3: God to the point where I was like, Okay, God
Speaker 3: is fine for me, Therapy is fine for me. I
Speaker 3: don't really need anything else. And then once I hit
Speaker 3: crisis mode, it was almost like, God, what happened? You know,
Speaker 3: like we were going so well and interestingly enough, when
Speaker 3: you're in mania, that's another aspect spirituality. You feel a
Speaker 3: heightened sense of spiritual awareness and you feel like you're
Speaker 3: the closest that you are to God, when really you
Speaker 3: could be experiencing a form of psychosis. So that's another
Speaker 3: thing to watch out for, and that's what I was
Speaker 3: experiencing during the manic episode. And then when I got hospitalized,
Speaker 3: that's when I was very confused because I thought I
Speaker 3: was the closest that I could ever be to God,
Speaker 3: and now I'm in a hospital not knowing what's going on,
Speaker 3: and I was just having a level of anger confusion,
Speaker 3: and so my relationship with God was a bit strained
Speaker 3: because I was thinking, there's no way that a good
Speaker 3: God could allow this to happen to me. And I
Speaker 3: was also wrestling with the fact that it did happen,
Speaker 3: and how do I go about my Christianity and how
Speaker 3: do I live that out while dealing with this mental
Speaker 3: health diagnosis, Because the first thing that I was thinking,
Speaker 3: what are the people in the church are gonna think,
Speaker 3: like not only my family, but at church, like when
Speaker 3: they hear that I have a mental health diagnosis, like
Speaker 3: what's gonna happen? And there was a lot of shame
Speaker 3: that came up as well, because I thought, well, if
Speaker 3: God loves me and he's a good God and we
Speaker 3: were so close, is he punishing me now? Like what
Speaker 3: is happening? So there was like a lot of different
Speaker 3: things that were going through my head in that season.
Speaker 3: But the thing that I keep going back to is
Speaker 3: that God is a faithful God. And even when I
Speaker 3: had the questions, even when I was wrestling with what
Speaker 3: to do next, I knew God was there for me,
Speaker 3: and I knew that he was going to embrace those
Speaker 3: questions with me and that I would be able to
Speaker 3: not only stay close to him during that time, but
Speaker 3: I knew that He was going to bring me through
Speaker 3: it despite what I was going through. And there was
Speaker 3: even a part where I was like, God, I'm angry
Speaker 3: at you, but I need you to stay with me,
Speaker 3: Like I just decided, like that was my prayer, like
Speaker 3: I'm I'm really mad, but I know that you're here,
Speaker 3: so I need you to be here. And he was
Speaker 3: so that was how my relationship with God took It
Speaker 3: was a bit strained, but I was happy that we
Speaker 3: were able to get back on track.
Speaker 2: I think all of that that you just said is
Speaker 2: so important for everybody, regardless of what they're going through,
Speaker 2: to like just to internalize, is that like again, like
Speaker 2: permission to say God, I think you're mean, I think
Speaker 2: you're unfair, I'm mad, but stick with me because where
Speaker 2: else am I going to go? Like, I think that's
Speaker 2: the huge I think that is the difference between someone
Speaker 2: who turns from God and someone who turns into God
Speaker 2: during a tough time. Is that recognition that he can
Speaker 2: he can take all of that anger. I think people
Speaker 2: who think I need to bottle it up. I can't
Speaker 2: be disrespectful to God. I can't vent my frustrations or
Speaker 2: even ask the question are you even there? Do you
Speaker 2: even care? Are you actually trying to make me suffer? Like?
Speaker 2: Do you take joy in that? Like these are questions
Speaker 2: that come to us in the midst of the struggle.
Speaker 2: And feeling not able to take that to God I
Speaker 2: think makes people go and hide away from Him if
Speaker 2: they already knew him in the first place.
Speaker 1: So thank you for that.
Speaker 2: What you said also, like I think everyone can also
Speaker 2: benefit from what you said about your first feelings, that
Speaker 2: first thought, and it breaks my heart that like your
Speaker 2: first thought was what are the people in the church
Speaker 2: can think when that should be your safe place, Like
Speaker 2: the Body of Christ, we need to be the safe
Speaker 2: place for people who are struggling, whether it's with mental
Speaker 2: illness struggles, whether it's with physical illness struggles, whether it's
Speaker 2: any kind of struggle anything, Like we should not be
Speaker 2: the judging place. We should not be the place where
Speaker 2: if you don't fit this mold, then you're not welcome
Speaker 2: and you don't fit in, you know, like you're too inconvenient.
Speaker 2: So you know, we need our worship service to go
Speaker 2: on and you know, for us all to put on
Speaker 2: happy faces, you know. So that just stuck with me,
Speaker 2: and I hope I know that we all need to
Speaker 2: hear that is like we have to be the Body
Speaker 2: of Christ and love and just minister to people that
Speaker 2: are heard without any kind of judgmental, superficial stuff going on.
Speaker 2: But it's tough because we're all humans and it becomes
Speaker 2: a club and it becomes a who can you put
Speaker 2: on the best show? I mean, that's just what it
Speaker 2: always kind of turns into if we're not careful and
Speaker 2: check ourselves. Can you explain a little bit more about
Speaker 2: like the closeness that you kind of felt like you
Speaker 2: had during the mania part of the bipolar back and forth?
Speaker 2: What made you feel closer to God? Was it just
Speaker 2: a sense of closeness. Was it feeling like you heard
Speaker 2: more from Him or got more out of scripture?
Speaker 1: What was that? What did that look like?
Speaker 3: That is a great question. So that looked like a
Speaker 3: lot of sensationalized feelings because I was already feeling all
Speaker 3: like on the top of the world like during mania,
Speaker 3: and so having that sense of nothing can touch me,
Speaker 3: and knowing that I'm a Christian and you know, I
Speaker 3: believe in God, a lot of those feelings were heightened
Speaker 3: because I was thinking, I'm in a good mood. I'm
Speaker 3: feeling very like invincible God must be on my side.
Speaker 3: God must be here. And the thing is, God was there.
Speaker 3: But sometimes God shows up in ways that we don't
Speaker 3: even think about. And God could have shown up through
Speaker 3: that hospitalization. But because I was in this manicked state,
Speaker 3: I was hearing things. I was hearing like audible voices,
Speaker 3: and I thought it was God. But really it was
Speaker 3: my own mind that was sick at the time, and
Speaker 3: so I thought I was close to God sheerly because
Speaker 3: I was feeling a lot of these sensationalized emotions, and
Speaker 3: so because I was feeling that, I thought they were
Speaker 3: the Holy Spirit, because I didn't know that it was mania,
Speaker 3: because when you're going through it, you don't feel like
Speaker 3: anything's wrong with you. Like even when my family was
Speaker 3: telling me, Hey, Sarah, you're talking a little too fast.
Speaker 3: We can't understand you. You're saying a lot of things
Speaker 3: that are just very out of the ordinary for you.
Speaker 3: I was looking at them like, what's wrong with you?
Speaker 3: Everything that I'm saying is from God, and everything that
Speaker 3: I'm feeling is from God. So how could you say
Speaker 3: that this is not true? And so there was a
Speaker 3: lot of back and forth with that, and I thought
Speaker 3: a lot of the things that I was thinking were
Speaker 3: genius thoughts, Like I thought I was going to write
Speaker 3: ten books about my life. There were gonna be volumes
Speaker 3: about different things, and it was a lot of just
Speaker 3: me being overly sensationalized at the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that brings up such a good point though, because
Speaker 2: we've all been there when we have felt like, at
Speaker 2: least to the point where we've felt like on top
Speaker 2: of the world and you have this feeling inside and
Speaker 2: it's it's almost like it's easy to be like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's God and kind of attribute the feelings to the
Speaker 2: Holy Spirit. And I'm not saying the Holy Spirit can't
Speaker 2: fill you with joy. He can, But I'm just saying
Speaker 2: that it is a dangerous assumption for anyone to equate
Speaker 2: the way I feel with my level of closeness to God,
Speaker 2: because honestly, like to me, it sounds like when you
Speaker 2: were in the depths of depression, maybe you were the
Speaker 2: closest to God that you've been.
Speaker 1: I mean, would you say that, would you agree with that?
Speaker 2: And so can you talk about that other side of
Speaker 2: the coin, like the time that you were in depression
Speaker 2: and how did your relationship with God look then?
Speaker 3: So that is a great observation, and I would say
Speaker 3: that I probably was the closest to God that I've
Speaker 3: ever been in those depressed moments, because when you are
Speaker 3: at your weakest point, that's when God's strength comes in.
Speaker 3: And that was what I was feeling throughout those depressive moments.
Speaker 3: I mean, there were times where I felt very heavy
Speaker 3: I felt very far from God. But I took a
Speaker 3: page from David in the Psalms where he was just like,
Speaker 3: I'm so weak, like my bones are frail, like my
Speaker 3: tears are my food day and night. And he was
Speaker 3: just expressing those emotions to God. And I was thinking,
Speaker 3: I need to express this to God as well, because
Speaker 3: if this is what I'm going through, God knows what
Speaker 3: I'm going through, and he is big enough to handle
Speaker 3: those emotions, so I'm not gonna lie. I wasn't praying
Speaker 3: as consistently as I wanted to, but when I did pray,
Speaker 3: I brought all of what I was feeling to God.
Speaker 3: I wrote it down in my prayer journal, and I
Speaker 3: just had a moment where I was laying all of
Speaker 3: those burdens at his feet. And let me tell you,
Speaker 3: God met me in those moments, whether it was a
Speaker 3: family member or a friend, or my community rallying around me,
Speaker 3: or whether it was a worship song that reminded me
Speaker 3: of his love, or whether it was just walking down
Speaker 3: the street and noticing the beauty of his creation and
Speaker 3: just knowing that if the God who created all of
Speaker 3: this loves me so much that he's walking with me
Speaker 3: through all of this, I'm gonna be okay. So those
Speaker 3: are the things that I held onto in those depressive moments.
Speaker 1: Wow, that is really beautiful.
Speaker 2: And can you talk about kind of how your church
Speaker 2: community did show up for you.
Speaker 1: It sounds like they did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they did. A few of them did. They showed up,
Speaker 3: And it was mostly because they didn't understand what was
Speaker 3: going on with me. Yeah, because my family would just
Speaker 3: tell them like, hey, just pray, and they didn't know.
Speaker 3: They didn't see me in church for a while, and
Speaker 3: so they were concerned, but they didn't know what was happening.
Speaker 3: And so when I finally decided to share my story
Speaker 3: through the podcast, I shared it with them. They were
Speaker 3: just like, Wow, we had no idea that you were
Speaker 3: going through this, and we're so sorry that you went
Speaker 3: through it, but we're happy that God was able to
Speaker 3: be with you in that moment. And some of them
Speaker 3: were I got a couple of like, Oh, you need
Speaker 3: to pray a little bit more because this is something
Speaker 3: that you could overcome through prayer or stake in your word,
Speaker 3: because that's something that you need in order to like
Speaker 3: get through this. So there were a couple of people
Speaker 3: that were still kind of over spiritualizing the situation. But
Speaker 3: for the most part, I would say that my church family,
Speaker 3: once they found out the details of what happened, they
Speaker 3: were definitely rallying around me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'm sure your family just didn't probably even
Speaker 2: have the words or the you know, because it was
Speaker 2: something very different from what they'd been confronted with. And
Speaker 2: I just think as members of the church, we need
Speaker 2: to remember that. Like I'm thinking, all those years you
Speaker 2: were functioning through bipolar disorder before crisis mode and nobody
Speaker 2: knew And then you know, the woman who comes to
Speaker 2: church puts on the mask.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've been there too.
Speaker 2: Where you're like, you know, you're having an internal struggle,
Speaker 2: but you come and you wear the mask and nobody.
Speaker 1: Knows what's happening.
Speaker 2: Like I'm just like, I just want to pray that
Speaker 2: God would help us to have eyes to see someone
Speaker 2: who needs like a word or a prayer, or even
Speaker 2: if we don't know exactly what's going on, that we
Speaker 2: can have eyes to see like just the tiny red flags,
Speaker 2: like what could those be? Could you think about something
Speaker 2: maybe that would be an indicator if someone is going
Speaker 2: through something like especially a mental health struggle, But they're
Speaker 2: kind of masking, kind of you know, covering it up,
Speaker 2: but just something we could see as a flag to like,
Speaker 2: this person needs prayer.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: I've just I've been through some anxiety stuff that I
Speaker 2: was able to kind of mask, so I can I
Speaker 2: sort of send feelers out sometimes. But if you do,
Speaker 2: you have any advice In general.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say that the matter is very complex
Speaker 3: because when we're going through something, we like to pretend
Speaker 3: to be okay, and we don't like really show what
Speaker 3: we're going through. But I would say one of the
Speaker 3: things is detachment, Like if you see somebody who's normally there,
Speaker 3: somebody who's normally engaged in ministry and you know, being
Speaker 3: around people. If you see that person less and less,
Speaker 3: maybe reach out to them and see what's going on.
Speaker 3: Or another thing is like isolation, where if somebody is
Speaker 3: just constantly keeping themselves, keeping to themselves, not really interacting
Speaker 3: or not really sharing as much, like definitely reach out
Speaker 3: to that person. With mental health. It's a little bit
Speaker 3: tricky because a lot of the times you need to
Speaker 3: be educated on the symptoms. But what I would say,
Speaker 3: if you see somebody who is acting out of the ordinary,
Speaker 3: like you see that they are a little bit aloof
Speaker 3: or you see that there's something going on with them,
Speaker 3: Like you could definitely extend like prayer for them, and
Speaker 3: it doesn't have to be something that's overly spiritualized again,
Speaker 3: because sometimes we get carried away and we're like, oh,
Speaker 3: the Lord told me to tell you that it's gonna
Speaker 3: be okay. Like sometimes they just need your presence, like
Speaker 3: maybe if you sit next to them, or if you
Speaker 3: just say I'm here for you, and if you ask
Speaker 3: them do you need any prayer? Like go ask them
Speaker 3: what the request specifically is. If they don't specify, but
Speaker 3: just say I'm praying for you, or just offer some
Speaker 3: words of encouragement to them, or nothing at all is great.
Speaker 3: Like if your presence is just there and you're just
Speaker 3: sitting with them through the tough time, that could do
Speaker 3: a lot as well.
Speaker 2: That's so hard being silent and just being present is
Speaker 2: really hard, but I could see where sometimes it's way
Speaker 2: better than actually trying to say something awkwardly that you
Speaker 2: might not know anything about. And yeah, are there any
Speaker 2: things that we can take to heart of like what
Speaker 2: not to do, what not to say? You've touched on
Speaker 2: a few of them, like I'm just reading pray more.
Speaker 2: You need more, you know you need over spiritualizing. But
Speaker 2: is there any like what not to do if you
Speaker 2: know someone who's struggling with mental health.
Speaker 3: I would say, don't emphasize the struggle too much because
Speaker 3: a lot of the times that gets people to shut down,
Speaker 3: Like if you say, oh, I haven't seen you for
Speaker 3: the past couple of Sundays, where have you been? Like
Speaker 3: that kind of gets people to feel like, Okay, they're
Speaker 3: clocking by attendance or something like maybe I should just
Speaker 3: revert back. And so don't overemphasize the struggle. Another thing
Speaker 3: I would say is that don't equate someone's faith journey
Speaker 3: with their mental health journey. Those are two different things,
Speaker 3: and you do not want to be in a position
Speaker 3: where you're telling somebody that their faith is lacking and
Speaker 3: that's why they have mental health issues, Like that's the
Speaker 3: last thing that you want to do. Another thing is
Speaker 3: to just reach out, but also don't overly reach out,
Speaker 3: Like if you reached out already and you know that
Speaker 3: you did, just know that God is working on them
Speaker 3: and that you know it's okay not to constantly reach out.
Speaker 3: And the last thing I would say is educate yourself
Speaker 3: on mental health tools because somebody might not be able
Speaker 3: to tell you exactly what they're going through, but if
Speaker 3: you have certain tools like nine eight that is a
Speaker 3: perfect mental health crisis hotline that you can call if
Speaker 3: you're having a crisis or somebody around you is having
Speaker 3: a crisis, that is the perfect resource that you can have,
Speaker 3: and other resources like that, like, you can definitely utilize those,
Speaker 3: but you have to do it through educating yourself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's nine eight eight, and we'll link our
Speaker 2: in our show notes also, which is a crisis helpline
Speaker 2: and also Nomi NAMI it's the National Alliance on Mental Illness.
Speaker 2: It's NAMI dot org. There is support, there, there is education,
Speaker 2: there's you know, just all kinds of stuff to help
Speaker 2: you educate yourself on different types of mental illness and
Speaker 2: you know where to find help, how to support people.
Speaker 2: It's really a good resource. So, well, this brings us
Speaker 2: to your podcast, So tell us little bit about how
Speaker 2: that came about and what you talk about.
Speaker 3: Yes, So, Rough Edges came due to my bipolar diagnosis
Speaker 3: and I wanted to have a space where people can
Speaker 3: not only grow, but also have the tools that they
Speaker 3: need to be able to heal and know that mental
Speaker 3: health and faith can work together for mental wellness. And
Speaker 3: so with that, I talk about resilience. I also talk
Speaker 3: about what to do when you feel far from God
Speaker 3: during a mental health episode. And I also talk with
Speaker 3: a variety of guests their mental health advocates. They are
Speaker 3: also mental health professionals and they share their own tips
Speaker 3: and guidance on how to better manage your mental health.
Speaker 3: So there's a variety of things on there and it's
Speaker 3: for everyone, so definitely check it out.
Speaker 1: Right. So that's the Rough Edges Podcast.
Speaker 2: And what is your What is your social media handle?
Speaker 2: Where can people connect with you online and on social media?
Speaker 3: Yes, so I have a website which is rough edgespodcast
Speaker 3: dot com. I'm also on TikTok, Instagram and YouTube under
Speaker 3: the handle rough Edges with Sarah.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, we'll link to all that stuff on our
Speaker 2: show notes. And I just want to thank you Sarah
Speaker 2: again for being here, for being such a great resource
Speaker 2: for people, like a lifeline and a glimmer of hope
Speaker 2: for people who are struggling. And I just know that
Speaker 2: just countless women are going to be blessed by this conversation,
Speaker 2: So thank you.
Speaker 1: How can we pray for you today?
Speaker 3: Definitely continued to pray for my mental health and also
Speaker 3: that God would show me what to do going forward
Speaker 3: with the podcast and like building it out and all
Speaker 3: of those things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, all right, let's pray God, thank you so
Speaker 2: much for Sarah. Thank you for just the courage, the boldness,
Speaker 2: and the transparency with which she has shared her story.
Speaker 2: And we just pray that you would bless her, that
Speaker 2: you would bless her ministry, Bless every conversation she has
Speaker 2: on her podcast, Bless every episode, and just allow that
Speaker 2: podcast and just her voice to reach more people than
Speaker 2: she could ever possibly ask or imagine. With the hope
Speaker 2: and the love of Christ, with the hope that comes
Speaker 2: from sticking with you and inviting you to stick with
Speaker 2: us through the really really tough times. We just pray
Speaker 2: your blessing over her body, mind, and spirit. We pray
Speaker 2: in Jesus' name that you would just fill her with peace,
Speaker 2: fill her with joy, fill her with just balance and
Speaker 2: just a sense of just knowing that You're a constant foundation,
Speaker 2: a rock underneath her feet through all of it. We
Speaker 2: pray just for her mental health. We pray for medications
Speaker 2: to be completely balanced and good and working well. And
Speaker 2: we just pray that she would just be a shining
Speaker 2: like a city on a hill. When you talk about us,
Speaker 2: I just see her just shining as a light, a
Speaker 2: beacon of hope for people just all over who who
Speaker 2: needs someone just to be in it with them and
Speaker 2: to teach and show by example what it means to
Speaker 2: be transformed through pain and difficulty and to just stick
Speaker 2: with you. Lord, we just pray that you would give
Speaker 2: her clarity and wisdom and vision for the next steps.
Speaker 2: Just let your voice be clear and just what her
Speaker 2: next step is with the podcast, with what just the ministry,
Speaker 2: with the voice you've given her, and the testimony that
Speaker 2: you have given her that she is so courageously obediently
Speaker 2: just allowed you to use for the benefit of others
Speaker 2: in Jesus name, Amen.
Speaker 3: Amen.
Speaker 2: We'd like to take just a quick second to thank
Speaker 2: the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us
Speaker 2: on the podcast. If you go to lifeaudio dot com,
Speaker 2: you will find dozens of other faith centered podcasts in
Speaker 2: their network. They've got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting,
Speaker 2: and so much more. That's lifeaudio dot Com.