1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 2: Hi there, and welcome to the Praying Christian Women podcast. 3 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 2: I'm Jamie Hampton and today I am really excited to 4 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 2: have a special guest with us. We have Sarah Fox 5 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 2: with us today. Sarah is a graduate of Liberty University. 6 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 2: She has an MS in Criminal Justice in forensic Psychology. 7 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 2: She's an alumna of the King's College with a BA 8 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 2: in Politics, Philosophy and Economics with a pre law miner 9 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 2: So she does all the things and she's also the 10 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 2: host of the Rough Edges podcast. Most importantly, Sarah shares 11 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 2: about her own story, her own struggles with mental health, 12 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 2: with her journey, her healing journey, her faith journey, and 13 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 2: really the intersection between faith and mental illness, which is 14 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 2: so needed. So, Sarah, thank you for being here. I 15 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 2: just can't thank you enough for being willing and courageous 16 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 2: enough to just share so transparently all of what you're 17 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 2: going through have been through because it's needed, it's so needed. 18 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 2: So thank you for being here. We really are excited 19 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 2: to talk with you. 20 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. 21 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: Yeah. 22 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 2: Well, we like to ask all of our guests before 23 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 2: we get into our actual conversation, what is your favorite 24 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 2: prayer closet, So it's in air quotes because it could 25 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 2: be an actual closet, it could be a room, it 26 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 2: could be something off the wall, like you know, outside 27 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 2: or somewhere even crazier. So where do you like to 28 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 2: meet with God? 29 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 3: I love to meet with God in my room and 30 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 3: I usually turn on like a sunset lamp has like 31 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 3: a nice like purple aura because I love purple, and 32 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 3: I have my journal and my Bible and it's just 33 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 3: a time where I could just decompress and really speak 34 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 3: to Him. 35 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: I love that. 36 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 2: Lighting is so important to me too. I have problems 37 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 2: with like bright fluorescent lighting. My husband can't stand it 38 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 2: because in our kitchen we have like kind of dim 39 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 2: are like little round lights that you can adjust, and 40 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 2: then we have like the big blasting lights, and he 41 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 2: always comes on and flips on the big lights. 42 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 1: He's like, why do you like to work in the dark. 43 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 2: I'm like, no, it's it's ambiance. But yeah, I love that. Well, 44 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 2: for listeners who don't know your story, can you just 45 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,359 Speaker 2: kind of start from the beginning and share about your story, 46 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 2: so you know, like when did you meet the Lord? 47 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: When did you become a believer? 48 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 3: Yes, so I grew up in a Christian household, and 49 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 3: so I met the Lord at a very young age, 50 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 3: like around nine years old. And from there God has 51 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 3: just been showing up in ways that I can't even 52 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 3: begin to describe, like He's been such a faithful God 53 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 3: and I in my journey. I recently got diagnosed with 54 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 3: bipolar disorder in January of twenty twenty one, and that 55 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 3: was really where a crisis of faith started because I 56 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 3: wanted to know why God would allow it to happen. 57 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 3: I was angry at God, and for many months there 58 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 3: was this tug of war going on on the inside 59 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 3: where I felt like God. I knew God was with me, 60 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:22,239 Speaker 3: but I also was like wrestling with the fact that 61 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 3: He would allow this to happen. And so given that 62 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 3: I had the bipolar diagnosis, I was able to not 63 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 3: only find a regimen that worked for me in terms 64 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 3: of like medication and getting to stability, but also I 65 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 3: was able to have a renewed sense of faith in 66 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 3: God where He became real to me in such a 67 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 3: new way, and I was able to not only understand 68 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 3: that my faith is what drives the hope that I have, 69 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 3: to be able to really understand how to deal with 70 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 3: mental health. But it also showed me that no matter 71 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 3: what season of life that I'm in, God is my 72 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 3: anchor and he keeps me grounded in no matter what 73 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 3: type of time that I'm having. 74 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I feel like when we face difficult times, 75 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 2: we have kind of this like one or the other 76 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 2: response to it. I think as Christians we either like 77 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 2: are just so angry and so confused and so frustrated 78 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,679 Speaker 2: that we turn away from God, or we're so angry 79 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 2: and so frustrated and so confused we kind of like 80 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 2: turn into Him and just kind of beat our fists 81 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 2: into his chest until he gives us answers. What do 82 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 2: you think, Like did you ever have a temptation to 83 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 2: just leave your faith and to just say I'm out? 84 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 2: Like either he doesn't care or maybe he's not even there, Like, 85 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,799 Speaker 2: what are your thoughts on kind of how that process 86 00:04:57,839 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 2: worked for you? 87 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 3: Yeah? I actually he did have a time. It was 88 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 3: after my grandfather passed away where I was really wrestling 89 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 3: with the grief and also wondering how a good God 90 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 3: could just keep allowing all these things to happen. And 91 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 3: it felt like a pile up from being diagnosed with 92 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 3: bipolar disorder, and then having a death in the family 93 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 3: and then other personal issues going around surrounding that. So 94 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 3: it felt like a very tumultuous time, and I was 95 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 3: so close to saying, God, I'm hanging this up, like 96 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 3: you don't really care about me. There's so much going on. 97 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 3: But even in the midst of those feelings, I understood 98 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 3: that God can handle them. A lot of the times 99 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 3: we think that God can't handle distress and the emotions 100 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 3: that come up with when we doubt him, but he 101 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:02,239 Speaker 3: can and he does understand and what we're going through. 102 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 3: And so that's what kept me going in the faith, 103 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 3: like understanding that God does know about my issues and 104 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 3: he does know how to be there in the midst 105 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 3: of them, even when I don't want to talk to him, 106 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 3: even when I feel like he's just not responding in 107 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,280 Speaker 3: the way that I would like. I know that He 108 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 3: can understand my emotions and that he could be able 109 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 3: to provide whether it's through somebody else or whether it's 110 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 3: through a worship song, or whether it's through a message 111 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 3: something to get me back on track. And so that's 112 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 3: one of the things that I value about my relationship 113 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 3: with God. 114 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of just being known, even in the midst 115 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 2: of the hard things, knowing that He knows you. And 116 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,559 Speaker 2: what would you say to someone like, as a first 117 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 2: step if they're listening right now and they're going through 118 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 2: something or some things that are just unspeakably hard and 119 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,119 Speaker 2: they're tempted to walk away, or maybe they've walked away 120 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 2: and they just you know, came across this by chance 121 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 2: or you know, through divine providence, Like, what would you 122 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 2: advise them as a first step to take in the 123 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 2: midst of the pain, to at least like move in 124 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 2: a direction toward allowing God back into their life. 125 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, I would definitely say it's never too late to 126 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 3: turn back to God. I think, especially if you did 127 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 3: walk away from God, there's almost that feeling that you 128 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 3: can never go back and you can go back. Especially 129 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 3: with the story of the prodigal Son. I love that 130 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 3: story so much because in that story, for those who 131 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 3: are not familiar, there was a younger son who wanted 132 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 3: his inheritance, and he squandered his inheritance and thought that 133 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 3: he couldn't go back to his father. And when he 134 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 3: did eventually go back, his father was there to welcome 135 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 3: him with open arms and to say welcome back, like 136 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 3: my son was lost but now he's found. And it's 137 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 3: such a beautiful depiction of God's love towards us that 138 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 3: even when we turn away, he is there to welcome 139 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 3: us back with open arms. So I would tell that 140 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 3: person it's never too late to turn back, and God 141 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 3: is waiting for you. He is always there for you 142 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 3: to return to him, and so don't be afraid to 143 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 3: turn back because it's never too late. 144 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: I love that and that story. 145 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 2: The interesting thing to me is the other brother was 146 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 2: so mad that his dad took his other brother back, 147 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 2: and that just shows like we read the story and 148 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 2: we're like, okay, he did all these things, but the 149 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 2: extent of the insult that that was to his family 150 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,439 Speaker 2: and to his father, I mean, he didn't just go 151 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 2: off and party for a little bit and come back 152 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 2: like it was a very grave insult and sin. And 153 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 2: the response to that brother I think should remind us 154 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 2: how gravely that son had sinned against his father, and 155 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 2: yet he was just welcomed back with those open arms. 156 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:04,439 Speaker 2: And I think we can be both of those people. 157 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 2: I think there's a part of us that's that other 158 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 2: brother saying you don't deserve this, You don't deserve this love. 159 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 2: And I just think to be able to talk to 160 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 2: that voice and say, Nope, that's not true, it's biblical. 161 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: So thank you for sharing that part of your story. 162 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 2: If we could rewind a little, can you talk about 163 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 2: like the time. So how old were you when you 164 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 2: started to notice something was off and not right? 165 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 3: That's a great question. I would say sixteen years old 166 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 3: because in high school I would have a lot of 167 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 3: different like ranges of mood, and I thought I was 168 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 3: just dealing with depression because when I got depressed, it 169 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 3: was a very deep depression, and so I decided to 170 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 3: see a therapist. Fast forward in college, and I was 171 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 3: actually the first one in my family and my immediate 172 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 3: family to go to therapy, and so everybody was wondering, 173 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 3: like what's going on, Like are you okay? Like you 174 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 3: don't have to speak to a stranger. But I knew 175 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 3: deep down that there was something off, especially with the 176 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 3: bouts of depression that I was having. And then I 177 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 3: would have almost a change where I would go into 178 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 3: a hyperactive mode where I would be so happy, so 179 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 3: on top of the world, and then I would plummet 180 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 3: back down into the depression. So I knew that that 181 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 3: wasn't really normal in terms of like an emotional balance. 182 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 3: So when I went to therapy, I discovered that I 183 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 3: might have a mood disorder, but we didn't know exactly 184 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 3: what it was, and at the time, I was a 185 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 3: little afraid to go to a psychiatrist. So I was like, 186 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 3: you know what, I'm just going to stick it out 187 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 3: in therapy and this is working for me, and that's 188 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 3: about it. So I really knew that something was wrong 189 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 3: in those high school years, but I also attributed it 190 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 3: to puberty and the range of emotions that teenagers can experience. 191 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 3: That's what I thought was happening. So I don't want 192 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 3: to say that I didn't take it seriously, but I 193 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 3: was at a point where I was like, I'm not 194 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 3: gonna go further and delve into all of this because 195 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 3: I just needed the therapy. 196 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:40,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think you bring up a really good 197 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 2: point just even going to therapy, you know. I think 198 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 2: that's true for so many of us, and especially in 199 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 2: the Christian faith. Like I think there's this stigma, and 200 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 2: I thank god it's changing. 201 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: I think the more people speak. 202 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 2: Out about it, the less of a stigma there is. 203 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 2: But there's just this idea, especially in family were you're 204 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 2: the first one to go to therapy. What's wrong with 205 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 2: you? You don't need therapy, just talk to us. Why are 206 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 2: you talking to a stranger? I think that hits the 207 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,559 Speaker 2: nail on the head. And to even go to therapy 208 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 2: was probably huge for you. And then like to take 209 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,439 Speaker 2: that next step to go to a psychiatrist to maybe 210 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 2: pursue medication or diagnosis or whatever like that would be 211 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:24,559 Speaker 2: even further into the unknown for the people that. 212 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: Were surrounding you. 213 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 2: And and so I'm just appreciative that you brought that 214 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 2: up because I think in the Christian side of things, 215 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 2: there's also this I think maybe like a shame, like, well, 216 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 2: why can't you just pray it away? Why can't you 217 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 2: just read your Bible more and think good things? You know, 218 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 2: whatever is good and noble and pure and excellent and praiseworthy. 219 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 2: Just think about that stuff and then you know, kind 220 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 2: of manage it through prayer and reading your Bible. Which 221 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 2: we don't manage diabetes through that, or high cholesterol or 222 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 2: blood pressure or you know. I mean, yes, I always 223 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 2: want to make sure people know, well, prayer is the 224 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 2: foundation in the backbone of everything. Medication is extra. But 225 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 2: I don't think God meant for us to deny all 226 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:14,079 Speaker 2: medical interventions and only pray because we're supposed to be 227 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 2: praying and it will always make things better because you're 228 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 2: involving God. But that permission needs to be given. I 229 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 2: think like it's okay to go to therapy, it's okay 230 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 2: to pursue a diagnosis and medication and help. So what 231 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 2: did that look like for you taking that next step? 232 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 2: When did that happen? How long did it take for 233 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 2: that to happen. 234 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 3: So I just want to also to your point, Jamie, 235 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 3: that you made earlier about us as Christians not really 236 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 3: understanding the gravity of mental health until we get to 237 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 3: crisis mode. And I was in that situation where I 238 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 3: knew that there was something off. I went to therapy. 239 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 3: I was told that it was a mood disorder, but 240 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 3: we didn't know exactly what it was, and I just 241 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 3: kind of let it sit until I was in crisis mode. 242 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:10,079 Speaker 3: And that crisis came through a manic episode. And what 243 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 3: that looks like is that you are very incoherent while 244 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 3: you're in the episode, and you also feel like you're invincible. 245 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 3: You're on top of the world danger is not a 246 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 3: thing to you. And you also have like these moments 247 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 3: where you're talking extremely fast no one can really keep up. 248 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 3: And you also have a decreased need for sleep, so 249 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 3: you could sleep for like two hours and wake up 250 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 3: feeling refreshed like you slept for eight or nine. And 251 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 3: that was what I was experiencing for a couple of weeks. 252 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 3: And it was my family that was like, WHOA, what 253 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 3: is going on? Like this is a lot that you're 254 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 3: going through. What is happening? And so while I was 255 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 3: really going through that, my mother, sister, they were the 256 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 3: ones that you know, called the ambulance. And that's when 257 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 3: I went to the hospital. And it wasn't until I 258 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 3: experienced my first hospitalization that I was able to get 259 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 3: on medication and get into the right treatment plan and 260 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 3: to get to that stage of stability. But I say 261 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 3: all this to say that a lot of the times 262 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 3: we wait till the crisis happens in order to actually 263 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 3: go through with treatment and to even take that first 264 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 3: step to get help. And so I would encourage everybody 265 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 3: listening not to wait till it gets to crisis mode. 266 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 3: Like if you are experiencing something and you feel a 267 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 3: little bit off or you're experiencing symptoms. The same way 268 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 3: that you would tell your doctor that you're experiencing certain 269 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 3: symptoms and that something's off. You can tell a therapist 270 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 3: that something is off. You can tell a psychiatrist that's 271 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 3: something is off. Like these things don't have to be 272 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 3: out of the realm of possibility, Like we can go 273 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 3: to mental health professionals for help. And so that's when 274 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 3: it was a problem for me because I let it 275 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 3: go into crisis mode. 276 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's such a good point. And again, just like 277 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 2: giving that permission is huge for people who might not 278 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 2: take that step otherwise. So can you talk about during 279 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 2: that time, you know, what was your relationship with God, 280 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 2: Like what were your conversations with God? Like, and during 281 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 2: that difficult time leading up to that crisis point and 282 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 2: then after. 283 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 3: So leading up to the crisis point, my relationship with 284 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 3: God was it was very close. Like I would pray 285 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 3: about everything like I would if I was dealing with 286 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 3: the slightest stake, I would bring it to God. And 287 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 3: I was also bringing my depressive thoughts and everything to 288 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 3: God to the point where I was like, Okay, God 289 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 3: is fine for me, Therapy is fine for me. I 290 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 3: don't really need anything else. And then once I hit 291 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 3: crisis mode, it was almost like, God, what happened? You know, 292 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 3: like we were going so well and interestingly enough, when 293 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 3: you're in mania, that's another aspect spirituality. You feel a 294 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 3: heightened sense of spiritual awareness and you feel like you're 295 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,439 Speaker 3: the closest that you are to God, when really you 296 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 3: could be experiencing a form of psychosis. So that's another 297 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 3: thing to watch out for, and that's what I was 298 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 3: experiencing during the manic episode. And then when I got hospitalized, 299 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 3: that's when I was very confused because I thought I 300 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,679 Speaker 3: was the closest that I could ever be to God, 301 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 3: and now I'm in a hospital not knowing what's going on, 302 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,640 Speaker 3: and I was just having a level of anger confusion, 303 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 3: and so my relationship with God was a bit strained 304 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 3: because I was thinking, there's no way that a good 305 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 3: God could allow this to happen to me. And I 306 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,199 Speaker 3: was also wrestling with the fact that it did happen, 307 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 3: and how do I go about my Christianity and how 308 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 3: do I live that out while dealing with this mental 309 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 3: health diagnosis, Because the first thing that I was thinking, 310 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 3: what are the people in the church are gonna think, 311 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 3: like not only my family, but at church, like when 312 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 3: they hear that I have a mental health diagnosis, like 313 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 3: what's gonna happen? And there was a lot of shame 314 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 3: that came up as well, because I thought, well, if 315 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 3: God loves me and he's a good God and we 316 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 3: were so close, is he punishing me now? Like what 317 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,360 Speaker 3: is happening? So there was like a lot of different 318 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 3: things that were going through my head in that season. 319 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 3: But the thing that I keep going back to is 320 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 3: that God is a faithful God. And even when I 321 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 3: had the questions, even when I was wrestling with what 322 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 3: to do next, I knew God was there for me, 323 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 3: and I knew that he was going to embrace those 324 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 3: questions with me and that I would be able to 325 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 3: not only stay close to him during that time, but 326 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 3: I knew that He was going to bring me through 327 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 3: it despite what I was going through. And there was 328 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 3: even a part where I was like, God, I'm angry 329 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 3: at you, but I need you to stay with me, 330 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 3: Like I just decided, like that was my prayer, like 331 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 3: I'm I'm really mad, but I know that you're here, 332 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:48,239 Speaker 3: so I need you to be here. And he was 333 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 3: so that was how my relationship with God took It 334 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 3: was a bit strained, but I was happy that we 335 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 3: were able to get back on track. 336 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 2: I think all of that that you just said is 337 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 2: so important for everybody, regardless of what they're going through, 338 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:10,439 Speaker 2: to like just to internalize, is that like again, like 339 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 2: permission to say God, I think you're mean, I think 340 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 2: you're unfair, I'm mad, but stick with me because where 341 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 2: else am I going to go? Like, I think that's 342 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,399 Speaker 2: the huge I think that is the difference between someone 343 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 2: who turns from God and someone who turns into God 344 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 2: during a tough time. Is that recognition that he can 345 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 2: he can take all of that anger. I think people 346 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 2: who think I need to bottle it up. I can't 347 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 2: be disrespectful to God. I can't vent my frustrations or 348 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,639 Speaker 2: even ask the question are you even there? Do you 349 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 2: even care? Are you actually trying to make me suffer? Like? 350 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 2: Do you take joy in that? Like these are questions 351 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 2: that come to us in the midst of the struggle. 352 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 2: And feeling not able to take that to God I 353 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 2: think makes people go and hide away from Him if 354 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 2: they already knew him in the first place. 355 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:04,919 Speaker 1: So thank you for that. 356 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 2: What you said also, like I think everyone can also 357 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 2: benefit from what you said about your first feelings, that 358 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 2: first thought, and it breaks my heart that like your 359 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 2: first thought was what are the people in the church 360 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,679 Speaker 2: can think when that should be your safe place, Like 361 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 2: the Body of Christ, we need to be the safe 362 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 2: place for people who are struggling, whether it's with mental 363 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 2: illness struggles, whether it's with physical illness struggles, whether it's 364 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,199 Speaker 2: any kind of struggle anything, Like we should not be 365 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 2: the judging place. We should not be the place where 366 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 2: if you don't fit this mold, then you're not welcome 367 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 2: and you don't fit in, you know, like you're too inconvenient. 368 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 2: So you know, we need our worship service to go 369 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 2: on and you know, for us all to put on 370 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 2: happy faces, you know. So that just stuck with me, 371 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 2: and I hope I know that we all need to 372 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 2: hear that is like we have to be the Body 373 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 2: of Christ and love and just minister to people that 374 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 2: are heard without any kind of judgmental, superficial stuff going on. 375 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 2: But it's tough because we're all humans and it becomes 376 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 2: a club and it becomes a who can you put 377 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 2: on the best show? I mean, that's just what it 378 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 2: always kind of turns into if we're not careful and 379 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 2: check ourselves. Can you explain a little bit more about 380 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 2: like the closeness that you kind of felt like you 381 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 2: had during the mania part of the bipolar back and forth? 382 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 2: What made you feel closer to God? Was it just 383 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 2: a sense of closeness. Was it feeling like you heard 384 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 2: more from Him or got more out of scripture? 385 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: What was that? What did that look like? 386 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:44,159 Speaker 3: That is a great question. So that looked like a 387 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:50,880 Speaker 3: lot of sensationalized feelings because I was already feeling all 388 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 3: like on the top of the world like during mania, 389 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 3: and so having that sense of nothing can touch me, 390 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 3: and knowing that I'm a Christian and you know, I 391 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 3: believe in God, a lot of those feelings were heightened 392 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 3: because I was thinking, I'm in a good mood. I'm 393 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 3: feeling very like invincible God must be on my side. 394 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 3: God must be here. And the thing is, God was there. 395 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 3: But sometimes God shows up in ways that we don't 396 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 3: even think about. And God could have shown up through 397 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:36,119 Speaker 3: that hospitalization. But because I was in this manicked state, 398 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 3: I was hearing things. I was hearing like audible voices, 399 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:45,120 Speaker 3: and I thought it was God. But really it was 400 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 3: my own mind that was sick at the time, and 401 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 3: so I thought I was close to God sheerly because 402 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:57,239 Speaker 3: I was feeling a lot of these sensationalized emotions, and 403 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 3: so because I was feeling that, I thought they were 404 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,640 Speaker 3: the Holy Spirit, because I didn't know that it was mania, 405 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 3: because when you're going through it, you don't feel like 406 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,879 Speaker 3: anything's wrong with you. Like even when my family was 407 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 3: telling me, Hey, Sarah, you're talking a little too fast. 408 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,959 Speaker 3: We can't understand you. You're saying a lot of things 409 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,640 Speaker 3: that are just very out of the ordinary for you. 410 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 3: I was looking at them like, what's wrong with you? 411 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,919 Speaker 3: Everything that I'm saying is from God, and everything that 412 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 3: I'm feeling is from God. So how could you say 413 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 3: that this is not true? And so there was a 414 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 3: lot of back and forth with that, and I thought 415 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 3: a lot of the things that I was thinking were 416 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 3: genius thoughts, Like I thought I was going to write 417 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 3: ten books about my life. There were gonna be volumes 418 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 3: about different things, and it was a lot of just 419 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 3: me being overly sensationalized at the time. 420 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, that brings up such a good point though, because 421 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 2: we've all been there when we have felt like, at 422 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 2: least to the point where we've felt like on top 423 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 2: of the world and you have this feeling inside and 424 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 2: it's it's almost like it's easy to be like, oh, yeah, 425 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 2: that's God and kind of attribute the feelings to the 426 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,360 Speaker 2: Holy Spirit. And I'm not saying the Holy Spirit can't 427 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 2: fill you with joy. He can, But I'm just saying 428 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 2: that it is a dangerous assumption for anyone to equate 429 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 2: the way I feel with my level of closeness to God, 430 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 2: because honestly, like to me, it sounds like when you 431 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,439 Speaker 2: were in the depths of depression, maybe you were the 432 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 2: closest to God that you've been. 433 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 1: I mean, would you say that, would you agree with that? 434 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 2: And so can you talk about that other side of 435 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 2: the coin, like the time that you were in depression 436 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 2: and how did your relationship with God look then? 437 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 3: So that is a great observation, and I would say 438 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 3: that I probably was the closest to God that I've 439 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:19,719 Speaker 3: ever been in those depressed moments, because when you are 440 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 3: at your weakest point, that's when God's strength comes in. 441 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:29,160 Speaker 3: And that was what I was feeling throughout those depressive moments. 442 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 3: I mean, there were times where I felt very heavy 443 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 3: I felt very far from God. But I took a 444 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 3: page from David in the Psalms where he was just like, 445 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 3: I'm so weak, like my bones are frail, like my 446 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 3: tears are my food day and night. And he was 447 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 3: just expressing those emotions to God. And I was thinking, 448 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,640 Speaker 3: I need to express this to God as well, because 449 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 3: if this is what I'm going through, God knows what 450 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 3: I'm going through, and he is big enough to handle 451 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 3: those emotions, so I'm not gonna lie. I wasn't praying 452 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 3: as consistently as I wanted to, but when I did pray, 453 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 3: I brought all of what I was feeling to God. 454 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 3: I wrote it down in my prayer journal, and I 455 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 3: just had a moment where I was laying all of 456 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,160 Speaker 3: those burdens at his feet. And let me tell you, 457 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,160 Speaker 3: God met me in those moments, whether it was a 458 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 3: family member or a friend, or my community rallying around me, 459 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,439 Speaker 3: or whether it was a worship song that reminded me 460 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 3: of his love, or whether it was just walking down 461 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 3: the street and noticing the beauty of his creation and 462 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 3: just knowing that if the God who created all of 463 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,879 Speaker 3: this loves me so much that he's walking with me 464 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,640 Speaker 3: through all of this, I'm gonna be okay. So those 465 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 3: are the things that I held onto in those depressive moments. 466 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: Wow, that is really beautiful. 467 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 2: And can you talk about kind of how your church 468 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 2: community did show up for you. 469 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 1: It sounds like they did. 470 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, they did. A few of them did. They showed up, 471 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 3: And it was mostly because they didn't understand what was 472 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 3: going on with me. Yeah, because my family would just 473 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 3: tell them like, hey, just pray, and they didn't know. 474 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 3: They didn't see me in church for a while, and 475 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,360 Speaker 3: so they were concerned, but they didn't know what was happening. 476 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 3: And so when I finally decided to share my story 477 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 3: through the podcast, I shared it with them. They were 478 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 3: just like, Wow, we had no idea that you were 479 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 3: going through this, and we're so sorry that you went 480 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 3: through it, but we're happy that God was able to 481 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 3: be with you in that moment. And some of them 482 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 3: were I got a couple of like, Oh, you need 483 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,959 Speaker 3: to pray a little bit more because this is something 484 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 3: that you could overcome through prayer or stake in your word, 485 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 3: because that's something that you need in order to like 486 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 3: get through this. So there were a couple of people 487 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 3: that were still kind of over spiritualizing the situation. But 488 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 3: for the most part, I would say that my church family, 489 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 3: once they found out the details of what happened, they 490 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 3: were definitely rallying around me. 491 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'm sure your family just didn't probably even 492 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 2: have the words or the you know, because it was 493 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 2: something very different from what they'd been confronted with. And 494 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 2: I just think as members of the church, we need 495 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 2: to remember that. Like I'm thinking, all those years you 496 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 2: were functioning through bipolar disorder before crisis mode and nobody 497 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 2: knew And then you know, the woman who comes to 498 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 2: church puts on the mask. 499 00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: I'm sure you've been there too. 500 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 2: Where you're like, you know, you're having an internal struggle, 501 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 2: but you come and you wear the mask and nobody. 502 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: Knows what's happening. 503 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 2: Like I'm just like, I just want to pray that 504 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,719 Speaker 2: God would help us to have eyes to see someone 505 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 2: who needs like a word or a prayer, or even 506 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 2: if we don't know exactly what's going on, that we 507 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 2: can have eyes to see like just the tiny red flags, 508 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 2: like what could those be? Could you think about something 509 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 2: maybe that would be an indicator if someone is going 510 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 2: through something like especially a mental health struggle, But they're 511 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 2: kind of masking, kind of you know, covering it up, 512 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 2: but just something we could see as a flag to like, 513 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 2: this person needs prayer. 514 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 1: I know. 515 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 2: I've just I've been through some anxiety stuff that I 516 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 2: was able to kind of mask, so I can I 517 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 2: sort of send feelers out sometimes. But if you do, 518 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 2: you have any advice In general. 519 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say that the matter is very complex 520 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 3: because when we're going through something, we like to pretend 521 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 3: to be okay, and we don't like really show what 522 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,959 Speaker 3: we're going through. But I would say one of the 523 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 3: things is detachment, Like if you see somebody who's normally there, 524 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 3: somebody who's normally engaged in ministry and you know, being 525 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 3: around people. If you see that person less and less, 526 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 3: maybe reach out to them and see what's going on. 527 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 3: Or another thing is like isolation, where if somebody is 528 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 3: just constantly keeping themselves, keeping to themselves, not really interacting 529 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 3: or not really sharing as much, like definitely reach out 530 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 3: to that person. With mental health. It's a little bit 531 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 3: tricky because a lot of the times you need to 532 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 3: be educated on the symptoms. But what I would say, 533 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 3: if you see somebody who is acting out of the ordinary, 534 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 3: like you see that they are a little bit aloof 535 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 3: or you see that there's something going on with them, 536 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 3: Like you could definitely extend like prayer for them, and 537 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 3: it doesn't have to be something that's overly spiritualized again, 538 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 3: because sometimes we get carried away and we're like, oh, 539 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 3: the Lord told me to tell you that it's gonna 540 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 3: be okay. Like sometimes they just need your presence, like 541 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 3: maybe if you sit next to them, or if you 542 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 3: just say I'm here for you, and if you ask 543 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 3: them do you need any prayer? Like go ask them 544 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 3: what the request specifically is. If they don't specify, but 545 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 3: just say I'm praying for you, or just offer some 546 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 3: words of encouragement to them, or nothing at all is great. 547 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 3: Like if your presence is just there and you're just 548 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 3: sitting with them through the tough time, that could do 549 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 3: a lot as well. 550 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,719 Speaker 2: That's so hard being silent and just being present is 551 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 2: really hard, but I could see where sometimes it's way 552 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 2: better than actually trying to say something awkwardly that you 553 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 2: might not know anything about. And yeah, are there any 554 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 2: things that we can take to heart of like what 555 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 2: not to do, what not to say? You've touched on 556 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 2: a few of them, like I'm just reading pray more. 557 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 2: You need more, you know you need over spiritualizing. But 558 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 2: is there any like what not to do if you 559 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 2: know someone who's struggling with mental health. 560 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 3: I would say, don't emphasize the struggle too much because 561 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 3: a lot of the times that gets people to shut down, 562 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 3: Like if you say, oh, I haven't seen you for 563 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 3: the past couple of Sundays, where have you been? Like 564 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 3: that kind of gets people to feel like, Okay, they're 565 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 3: clocking by attendance or something like maybe I should just 566 00:33:54,680 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 3: revert back. And so don't overemphasize the struggle. Another thing 567 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 3: I would say is that don't equate someone's faith journey 568 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 3: with their mental health journey. Those are two different things, 569 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 3: and you do not want to be in a position 570 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:19,279 Speaker 3: where you're telling somebody that their faith is lacking and 571 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,400 Speaker 3: that's why they have mental health issues, Like that's the 572 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:26,359 Speaker 3: last thing that you want to do. Another thing is 573 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 3: to just reach out, but also don't overly reach out, 574 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 3: Like if you reached out already and you know that 575 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,880 Speaker 3: you did, just know that God is working on them 576 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,839 Speaker 3: and that you know it's okay not to constantly reach out. 577 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 3: And the last thing I would say is educate yourself 578 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 3: on mental health tools because somebody might not be able 579 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,359 Speaker 3: to tell you exactly what they're going through, but if 580 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,319 Speaker 3: you have certain tools like nine eight that is a 581 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 3: perfect mental health crisis hotline that you can call if 582 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,240 Speaker 3: you're having a crisis or somebody around you is having 583 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:14,879 Speaker 3: a crisis, that is the perfect resource that you can have, 584 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:20,480 Speaker 3: and other resources like that, like, you can definitely utilize those, 585 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 3: but you have to do it through educating yourself. 586 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's nine eight eight, and we'll link our 587 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,879 Speaker 2: in our show notes also, which is a crisis helpline 588 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:35,720 Speaker 2: and also Nomi NAMI it's the National Alliance on Mental Illness. 589 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 2: It's NAMI dot org. There is support, there, there is education, 590 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,399 Speaker 2: there's you know, just all kinds of stuff to help 591 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 2: you educate yourself on different types of mental illness and 592 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 2: you know where to find help, how to support people. 593 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 2: It's really a good resource. So, well, this brings us 594 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 2: to your podcast, So tell us little bit about how 595 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 2: that came about and what you talk about. 596 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 3: Yes, So, Rough Edges came due to my bipolar diagnosis 597 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,319 Speaker 3: and I wanted to have a space where people can 598 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 3: not only grow, but also have the tools that they 599 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,800 Speaker 3: need to be able to heal and know that mental 600 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 3: health and faith can work together for mental wellness. And 601 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:31,959 Speaker 3: so with that, I talk about resilience. I also talk 602 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 3: about what to do when you feel far from God 603 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,719 Speaker 3: during a mental health episode. And I also talk with 604 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:44,760 Speaker 3: a variety of guests their mental health advocates. They are 605 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:49,680 Speaker 3: also mental health professionals and they share their own tips 606 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 3: and guidance on how to better manage your mental health. 607 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 3: So there's a variety of things on there and it's 608 00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 3: for everyone, so definitely check it out. 609 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: Right. So that's the Rough Edges Podcast. 610 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 2: And what is your What is your social media handle? 611 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 2: Where can people connect with you online and on social media? 612 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 3: Yes, so I have a website which is rough edgespodcast 613 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 3: dot com. I'm also on TikTok, Instagram and YouTube under 614 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 3: the handle rough Edges with Sarah. 615 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 2: Okay, well, we'll link to all that stuff on our 616 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 2: show notes. And I just want to thank you Sarah 617 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 2: again for being here, for being such a great resource 618 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 2: for people, like a lifeline and a glimmer of hope 619 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,799 Speaker 2: for people who are struggling. And I just know that 620 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 2: just countless women are going to be blessed by this conversation, 621 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 2: So thank you. 622 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 1: How can we pray for you today? 623 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 3: Definitely continued to pray for my mental health and also 624 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 3: that God would show me what to do going forward 625 00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,799 Speaker 3: with the podcast and like building it out and all 626 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:00,800 Speaker 3: of those things. 627 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, all right, let's pray God, thank you so 628 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 2: much for Sarah. Thank you for just the courage, the boldness, 629 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:14,120 Speaker 2: and the transparency with which she has shared her story. 630 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 2: And we just pray that you would bless her, that 631 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 2: you would bless her ministry, Bless every conversation she has 632 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 2: on her podcast, Bless every episode, and just allow that 633 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 2: podcast and just her voice to reach more people than 634 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,840 Speaker 2: she could ever possibly ask or imagine. With the hope 635 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,640 Speaker 2: and the love of Christ, with the hope that comes 636 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 2: from sticking with you and inviting you to stick with 637 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,839 Speaker 2: us through the really really tough times. We just pray 638 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 2: your blessing over her body, mind, and spirit. We pray 639 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 2: in Jesus' name that you would just fill her with peace, 640 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:57,800 Speaker 2: fill her with joy, fill her with just balance and 641 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:03,200 Speaker 2: just a sense of just knowing that You're a constant foundation, 642 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 2: a rock underneath her feet through all of it. We 643 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:10,280 Speaker 2: pray just for her mental health. We pray for medications 644 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,239 Speaker 2: to be completely balanced and good and working well. And 645 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,240 Speaker 2: we just pray that she would just be a shining 646 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:20,399 Speaker 2: like a city on a hill. When you talk about us, 647 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,239 Speaker 2: I just see her just shining as a light, a 648 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,040 Speaker 2: beacon of hope for people just all over who who 649 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,600 Speaker 2: needs someone just to be in it with them and 650 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,759 Speaker 2: to teach and show by example what it means to 651 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,919 Speaker 2: be transformed through pain and difficulty and to just stick 652 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 2: with you. Lord, we just pray that you would give 653 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,920 Speaker 2: her clarity and wisdom and vision for the next steps. 654 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 2: Just let your voice be clear and just what her 655 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:54,200 Speaker 2: next step is with the podcast, with what just the ministry, 656 00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:57,000 Speaker 2: with the voice you've given her, and the testimony that 657 00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 2: you have given her that she is so courageously obediently 658 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 2: just allowed you to use for the benefit of others 659 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:05,440 Speaker 2: in Jesus name, Amen. 660 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:06,440 Speaker 3: Amen. 661 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 2: We'd like to take just a quick second to thank 662 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,600 Speaker 2: the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us 663 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,920 Speaker 2: on the podcast. If you go to lifeaudio dot com, 664 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,480 Speaker 2: you will find dozens of other faith centered podcasts in 665 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:24,400 Speaker 2: their network. They've got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, 666 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 2: and so much more. That's lifeaudio dot Com.