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Speaker 1: Life Audio. Hello, Hello, and welcome to the Confessions of

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Speaker 1: a Christian Alcoholic podcast. I am your host, John Seidel.

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Speaker 1: This is your home for real stories, radical vulnerability, and

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Speaker 1: remarkable comebacks. In the end, this podcast is a place

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Speaker 1: for the desperate, the downtrodden, the destitute, and especially the drunk.

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Speaker 1: But it's also a place of hope and healing. I

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Speaker 1: know that firsthand because I'm the Christian who became an alcoholic,

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Speaker 1: not the other way around. Today I've found sobriety after

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Speaker 1: decades of struggling. But more importantly than finding sobriety, I

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Speaker 1: found Jesus. My prayer is that as I interview people

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Speaker 1: just like you and just like me, along with professionals

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Speaker 1: in the fields of trauma, faith and addiction recovery, you

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Speaker 1: will find the piece that is available to you through

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Speaker 1: Christ on the other side of whatever you're going through

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Speaker 1: and whatever addiction that might be. Because let's face it,

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Speaker 1: we're all addicted to something so welcome, let's get radically

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Speaker 1: vulnerable as we explore what it looks like to be

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Speaker 1: on this journey of MESSI sanctification. We'll be right back

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Speaker 1: after this. One of my favorite stories when it comes

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Speaker 1: to sobriety is not mine. It's from a woman named

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Speaker 1: Heather cop and Heather wrote a memoir called Sober Mercies,

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Speaker 1: and in there she tells this story of sitting in

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Speaker 1: a AA meeting and at treatment and a woman blurts out,

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Speaker 1: I drove drunk my kids, and that woman is Heather.

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Speaker 1: She admits it to everyone, I drove drunk with my kids,

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Speaker 1: and this woman in the circle kind of looks at

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Speaker 1: her and says, didn't we all? And what Heather explains

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Speaker 1: is that woman wasn't responding that everyone in that room

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Speaker 1: must have driven drunk. What she was saying was we

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Speaker 1: all have those moments that we say this will be

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Speaker 1: the thing I never do, and we do it, especially

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Speaker 1: if you are someone with a misordered and disordered relationship

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Speaker 1: with alcohol. Sarah's and Noddy, our guest today, literally did

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Speaker 1: drive drunk with her three year old niece in the

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Speaker 1: back seat. I know that because she's written a song

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Speaker 1: about it called Sobering, and it's a song that I've

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Speaker 1: created this playlist of like recovery songs, and it's on there.

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Speaker 1: It's one of those songs that I listened to frequently,

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Speaker 1: and it talks about how bad it got for Sarah

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Speaker 1: as well as the freedom and the grace that she

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Speaker 1: has experienced. And that's what we're going to talk about today.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about her story. We're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about freedom, We're going to talk about grace. You

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Speaker 1: will recognize Sarah if you are watching this on the

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Speaker 1: Veritas Daily. So if you're a pain member at the

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Speaker 1: Veritas Daily, which is seven dollars a month or sixty

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Speaker 1: dollars a year, it helps support my writing and you

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Speaker 1: get some other great benefits. One of them is you

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Speaker 1: can watch this podcast. And so if you want to

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Speaker 1: watch this podcast, go to the Veritas Daily dot com

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Speaker 1: sign up and you'll be able to watch this. Once

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Speaker 1: you see Sarah's face, you will recognize her. She especially

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Speaker 1: if you're in the Christian sphere. She does a lot

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Speaker 1: of skits in videos with John christ the comedian, and

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Speaker 1: so you'll see her face and you'll be like, oh

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Speaker 1: my gosh, I've seen her in John Chris stuff. You've

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Speaker 1: also seen her and plenty of other stuff too, because

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Speaker 1: she is a writer, an actor, a producer. And I'm

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Speaker 1: excited to talk to her because she gets when I

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Speaker 1: talk about radical vulnerability. She gets radically vulnerable about the

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Speaker 1: stuff that she's experienced, about why she turned to alcohol,

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Speaker 1: about eating disorders, about o c D that she's experienced,

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Speaker 1: and I just love her raw ability to connect. And

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Speaker 1: there are plenty of times where there's some long pauses

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Speaker 1: in this interview, not because we don't know what to say,

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Speaker 1: but because there's just some weight to it, and Sarah's

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Speaker 1: graciously decided to share that story. You know, There's there's

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Speaker 1: a couple of things that I think are so important.

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Speaker 1: I love she says this about grace that I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna find this quote. It says, the most sobering

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Speaker 1: thing I've experienced has been grace. Oh how true. And

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Speaker 1: then there is a piece that is way better than

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Speaker 1: just the instant relief. And if you're listening to this

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Speaker 1: podcast today, chances are you need grace. And I guess

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Speaker 1: maybe I'll maybe I'll I'll restate that you do need

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Speaker 1: grace if you're listening to this podcast today, because everyone

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Speaker 1: who's listening to this podcast needs grace. But I think

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Speaker 1: maybe you're starting to really realize it or feel it.

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Speaker 1: And then second, I think if you're listening to this podcast,

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Speaker 1: you're generally someone who has looked for peace in other things.

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Speaker 1: Drinking obviously, but maybe food, maybe sex, maybe your spouse,

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Speaker 1: maybe Netflix, maybe your phone. And someone asked me recently

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Speaker 1: after or I asked someone recently after a talk, like, hey,

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Speaker 1: how do you think it went? And they said, and

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Speaker 1: they weren't being critical, they just said, you know, I

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Speaker 1: didn't think. I thought maybe you could have talked a

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Speaker 1: little bit more about what life has looked like after

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Speaker 1: and how and how great it's been. And I kind

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Speaker 1: of chuckled. I said, here's what I can tell you.

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Speaker 1: Life has been so much better since I got sober.

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Speaker 1: It has not been great, and I'm not out here

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Speaker 1: and maybe someday, maybe a year, two years, five years

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Speaker 1: down the road, I can be the one that tells you,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, like I am just like on top

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Speaker 1: of the world looking down on creation, but man, life

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Speaker 1: is like like I joked that I wrote my first

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Speaker 1: book because life I encountered the hardest part of my life.

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Speaker 1: Then I wrote my second book, this book, Confessions of

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Speaker 1: a Christian Alcoholic, because I encountered the next period of

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Speaker 1: my life that I didn't think could get any worse

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Speaker 1: or couldn't get any harder, And it did. And now

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Speaker 1: I'm in a period that's probably going to be the

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Speaker 1: third book, and it is a period in my life

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Speaker 1: that's even harder. And I'm so grateful to have found

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Speaker 1: Jesus or refound Jesus, because because I can't imagine going

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Speaker 1: through it. And so when Sarah says there is a

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Speaker 1: piece that is way better than just the instant relief,

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Speaker 1: I can tell you that is true. Life has not

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Speaker 1: been like easy, but it has been better, it has

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Speaker 1: been good, and Sarah is a testament to that. So,

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Speaker 1: without further ado, let's talk to Sarah Zanati and hear

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Speaker 1: her story of misordered and disordered drinking. Sarah, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for joining the Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic podcast.

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Speaker 1: This is really a treat for me. I've been following

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Speaker 1: you for a while, and so the fact that you

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Speaker 1: agreed to come on and just be vulnerable and tell

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Speaker 1: your story, I really appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you for having me on. It's just really

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Speaker 2: great to meet you. You just immediately like put me

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Speaker 2: at ease, and I can tell that we're gonna get

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Speaker 2: into all the good conversation, just really sinking.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and that's what we're what we're all about

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Speaker 1: here on the Confessions pocket. My wife is like, maybe

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Speaker 1: you should just call it confessions and you can talk

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Speaker 1: about more stuff. And I'm like, I think we're just

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Speaker 1: I think we're probably, you know, just gonna end up

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Speaker 1: talking about a lot of stuff anyway, So I don't

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Speaker 1: think I need to just be broad. I think I

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Speaker 1: think it'll just happen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 1: So talked a little bit about this in the introduction.

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Speaker 1: But I think people there's plenty of places people might

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Speaker 1: know you from. I think my first introduction to you

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Speaker 1: was through some John Christ sketches, right, so I think

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Speaker 1: people have probably seen you there. You're a songwriter, you

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Speaker 1: are a writer of films. You own a production company.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's funny because sometimes I'll see you

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Speaker 1: pop up on other people's stuff, and I've seen you

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Speaker 1: pop up in some weird places I can't even remember,

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Speaker 1: but I've seen you pop up. I'm like, Hey, that's Sarah.

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Speaker 1: That's awesome. So tell people exactly kind of what you

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Speaker 1: do right now.

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Speaker 2: So everything you said, I I actually went to school

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Speaker 2: for music. So I grew up doing like musical theater

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Speaker 2: and singing all the time and acting, and then I

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Speaker 2: went to Berkeley College Music in Boston. Actually my freshman

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Speaker 2: year of college, I went to Belmont here in Nashville,

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Speaker 2: where I live, and then I transferred to Berkeley and

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Speaker 2: got a degree in songwriting. And then I giggled, I

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Speaker 2: don't know why. I think it's just because it's wild

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Speaker 2: to me that people can get a degree in songwriting

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Speaker 2: or anything like artsy You're like, yeah, this is my degree,

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Speaker 2: and then yeah, I was doing music for a bit

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Speaker 2: and then lived in LA for a while, came back

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Speaker 2: to Nashville after a hard experience out there, and really

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Speaker 2: had no intentions of getting into film moving to Nashville,

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Speaker 2: you know, eight some years ago, but eventually found like

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Speaker 2: an acting studio where I met my now business partner, Kadi,

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Speaker 2: and she had been working in the studio film system

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Speaker 2: for a long time and was working on a project

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Speaker 2: that Senator on country music. So she was living in

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Speaker 2: Nashville kind of like she moved here to do like,

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Speaker 2: you know, study and figure out the songwriting world, and

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Speaker 2: then ended up staying. She cast me in something, and

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Speaker 2: then we started our company at the tail end of

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Speaker 2: twenty nineteen. So that's my production company. It's called as

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Speaker 2: IF Productions. Her last name is Amond. My last name

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Speaker 2: is Zanati. So it's easy if because we're both obsessed

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Speaker 2: with clueless and so yeah, so for the past five

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Speaker 2: years we've been making independent feature films. We write them together,

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Speaker 2: she directs, I act, We produce them. She used to

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Speaker 2: teach editing in film school and taught me how to edit,

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Speaker 2: so I do like a little bit of assistant editing,

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Speaker 2: but really just like the kind of just like the

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Speaker 2: TV stuff that nobody wants to do. But yeah, we've

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Speaker 2: made psychological thrillers, horror films, dark comedy, and up next

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Speaker 2: we have a Christmas script that we're working on, so

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Speaker 2: we're kind of the material seems to be getting lighter

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Speaker 2: and we're climbing that ladder. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, to that point, what I will say is

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Speaker 1: for those who do follow you on social media or

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Speaker 1: or don't, but will is you're so freaking funny. And

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Speaker 1: so it's like when I saw that you were doing

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Speaker 1: the horror film, I'm like, I'm like, okay, okay, but

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Speaker 1: you're also so funny, Like I was watching on Russia.

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Speaker 1: Then you're like you're just doing a thing, and then

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Speaker 1: like this woman starts like power walking next to you

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Speaker 1: and the commentary on the Woman Power Walking. I was like,

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Speaker 1: that's hilarious. So you're really funny.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, you would think that

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Speaker 2: that would be the place I would I would naturally

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Speaker 2: want to write scripts and my ideas come from. But

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Speaker 2: for some reason, I say, for some reason, I have

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Speaker 2: like a sneaking suspicion about why. But I've always been

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Speaker 2: kind of drawn to writing stories that are a little

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Speaker 2: heavy hitting and maybe exploring some things that you wouldn't

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Speaker 2: think that I would I would want to explore. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: so that's the side of things. And then this, this

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Speaker 2: music project has really just been in the last two years.

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Speaker 2: I got sober a little bit over two years ago,

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Speaker 2: and as I'm sure you know, in that first year

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Speaker 2: of sobriety, you're kind of inundated with so many more

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Speaker 2: emotions and things that you didn't know were underneath the surface.

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Speaker 2: And I started writing songs again. And I hadn't really

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Speaker 2: been focusing on music since I had lived in LA

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Speaker 2: so it had been some years. I put out a

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Speaker 2: few songs when I moved back to Nashville, but nothing

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Speaker 2: that I was I was really all that. It's not

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Speaker 2: like I was trying to, Like, I don't think I

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Speaker 2: had the confidence or the where with all the building

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Speaker 2: a career at the time, I was just kind of

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Speaker 2: throwing pain at the wall. Ye But yeah, So I

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Speaker 2: started writing this project just to kind of process through

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Speaker 2: some of the stuff that I was experiencing. And a

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Speaker 2: good friend of mine is an incredible songwriter. She's also

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Speaker 2: one of my mentors, and she was prodigy piano player

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Speaker 2: and big songwriter back in the early two thousands, late nineties,

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Speaker 2: early two thousands and just an incredible human. But anyways,

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Speaker 2: she wrote the record with me, but I didn't know

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Speaker 2: that that's what I was doing. We just started writing

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Speaker 2: and as I was kind of processing through every layer

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Speaker 2: that seemed to be coming off of, like Okay, what

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Speaker 2: do I do now with all of these feelings and

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Speaker 2: these thoughts and social interactions and being by myself and

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Speaker 2: God and who am I? And so we wrote this

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Speaker 2: EP and it's five songs. The first song that I

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Speaker 2: released was Sobering, and it's kind of about each of

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Speaker 2: the phases that I experienced through that first year of sobriety.

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Speaker 2: And Okay, so that's the music side of things now.

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Speaker 1: That is a perfect segue because I was like, I

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Speaker 1: was like, how am I going to jump into this?

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Speaker 1: And I kind of had this idea and now and

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Speaker 1: now I'm realizing how perfect it is. So I want

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Speaker 1: to I want to get into your story, and I'm

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Speaker 1: just going to read these lines and then I'm just

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Speaker 1: going to ask you just to tell your story, because

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Speaker 1: I think these lines are a great segue into introducing that.

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Speaker 1: So these lines from Sobering, the song that's Sarah wrote

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Speaker 1: and that we're talking about that I've had on literally

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Speaker 1: repeat all day, starts like this drunk driving ungodly speeds

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Speaker 1: could have killed someone or me. And one time I

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Speaker 1: drove with my two year old niece in the back seat,

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Speaker 1: been passed out in a ditch. My mom found me

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Speaker 1: like this there was nothing she thought she couldn't fix. Wow.

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Speaker 1: I mean like, I feel like there's like seven podcasts

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Speaker 1: just in those first you know, one, two, three, four

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Speaker 1: or five seven lines. But there's a there's a woman

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Speaker 1: named Heather cop and I read her sober memoir in

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Speaker 1: my first year of sobriety, and she says she talks

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Speaker 1: about being in an AA meeting and someone says, just

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Speaker 1: kind of is like talking about driving drunk with their kids,

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Speaker 1: and Heather blurts out me too, and somewhere next to

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Speaker 1: them says, but didn't we all drive drunk with our kids,

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Speaker 1: And the idea of like we all have that whatever,

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Speaker 1: Like maybe you didn't drive drunk with your kids, but

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Speaker 1: you drove drunk with your kids. Like we all have

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Speaker 1: that thing that we say we're never going to do,

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Speaker 1: that moment that we say is going to be the end,

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Speaker 1: and it ends up being the thing that we do. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so like that is just like I'm listening to

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Speaker 1: your song and it's hitting me and so with that,

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Speaker 1: I'd love to turn it over to you and say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: what's your story. How did you get to the point

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Speaker 1: of your Like I'm getting sober. I need to get

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Speaker 1: sober of writing the line. And one time I drove

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Speaker 1: with my two year old niece in the backseat, like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: what happened in your life that led you to that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? You know, sadly that experience, which was truly a

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Speaker 2: rock bottom, was not the last time I drank, and

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Speaker 2: it took a little bit longer after that, but that

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Speaker 2: was a moment that you know, the next day, after

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Speaker 2: I had made that choice, I woke up in the

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Speaker 2: middle of the night, you know, as I guess, alcohol

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Speaker 2: was wearing off and just immediately was like the guilt

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Speaker 2: was like, you know, like I had a whole house

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Speaker 2: sitting on my chest and I I I couldn't. I

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Speaker 2: couldn't process how or why I I thought that was okay.

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Speaker 2: Not that I thought it was okay. I just you know,

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Speaker 2: when you're when you're drunk, you don't you're not thinking,

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Speaker 2: but you know it was I would I would say

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Speaker 2: it was probably the beginning of the end. So like

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Speaker 2: even though that that wasn't you know, the moment or

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Speaker 2: the day or the experience that I eventually woke up

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Speaker 2: the next day and was like I'm never drinking again,

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Speaker 2: it was probably the beginning of this, like overall, oh,

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Speaker 2: this is not going down, you know, never again, Like I,

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Speaker 2: how am I going to live with myself if that's

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Speaker 2: the person that I'm choosing to be. You know, my niece,

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Speaker 2: I love her more than I could possibly explain. She's

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Speaker 2: my god daughter, She's my mini me, and I sometimes

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Speaker 2: think about her now when I'm making choices about my

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Speaker 2: life and trying to be kinder to myself because I've

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Speaker 2: traditionally been really, really hard on myself, and I think

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Speaker 2: it's part of the reason why drinking was nice, because

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Speaker 2: it gave me a break from all of the endless

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Speaker 2: thoughts and the punishment in the cycles of abuse that

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Speaker 2: I put myself through in my own mind. And I

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Speaker 2: try and think of how would I how would I

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Speaker 2: talk to her? What would I say to her? Would

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Speaker 2: I be this mean to her? No, Like she's a child,

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Speaker 2: so kind of in sobriety. Actually, she's been an inspiration

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Speaker 2: for me of like if I were to treat if

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Speaker 2: I were to if she were my child, and she's

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Speaker 2: you know, she's my niece, so I it's it's right there.

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Speaker 2: But if I could, if I could raise myself in

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Speaker 2: a way in sobriety, Now, how how would I talk

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Speaker 2: to myself? So I love her and I'm i'm, I'm

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Speaker 2: I don't know how to put if Ever, one day

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Speaker 2: she hears this song and she asks me questions about

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Speaker 2: that when she's older. You know, that's a conversation I'm

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Speaker 2: going to have and it's probably going to be a

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Speaker 2: hard one. But I'm I'm excited by the thought of

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Speaker 2: being incredibly honest with her because you know, I think

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Speaker 2: speaking of childhood sometimes we're not always uh, the adults

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Speaker 2: in our lives are not always honest with us. And

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Speaker 2: if I think about my childhood, you know, I think

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Speaker 2: I was naturally a very colorful kid. I was boisterous

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Speaker 2: in a lot of ways, and strong willed and aggressive

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Speaker 2: and just you know, I was. I was a performer,

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Speaker 2: I think out the gate and had a lot of

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Speaker 2: determination in every way that you could imagine. But because

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Speaker 2: of maybe that, because of who I naturally am in

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Speaker 2: my essence, I had a lot of people around me,

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Speaker 2: you know, not just at home, at school too, just

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Speaker 2: in my environment that we're like, don't do that, don't

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Speaker 2: be this, be less. Oh no, don't do that. That's

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Speaker 2: too much. And so I think I really, because of

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Speaker 2: a myriad of different reasons and experiences as a kid,

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Speaker 2: I think I pretty strongly got the message that I

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Speaker 2: could not trust myself and that I can't trust my intuition,

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Speaker 2: I can't trust how I feel, that I don't have

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Speaker 2: a trustworthy perception of the world, and so pretty early

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Speaker 2: on that really colorful, you know, bold kid disconnected. I

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Speaker 2: disconnected from my internal world pretty much altogether. And I

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Speaker 2: think that that's kind of what led me to where

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Speaker 2: you're talking about, which was life really spent kind of

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Speaker 2: outside of myself. And you know, when you don't trust yourself,

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Speaker 2: then you don't have any sort of a connection to

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Speaker 2: how you feel you're you know, I kind of was

340
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Speaker 2: always trying to gauge where I was at in the world.

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Speaker 2: I was always I was a hyper that I became

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Speaker 2: incredibly hyper vigilant. I would watch everybody's expression and try

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Speaker 2: to see, you know, who's okay with me? Do people

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Speaker 2: like me? How am I doing okay? Well, I've I've

345
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Speaker 2: got to get people to like me because my safety

346
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Speaker 2: then was not internal. My safety was not in some

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Speaker 2: sort of connection to myself or to God if I

348
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Speaker 2: could have even comprehended I still can't comprehend God as

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Speaker 2: an adult, but you know what I mean, Like as

350
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Speaker 2: a child, I had no internal muscle that was being built,

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Speaker 2: and so my okayness and my safety, I thought was

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Speaker 2: everywhere outside of me. So it became I need everybody

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Speaker 2: to like me, and I need to be impressive, and

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Speaker 2: i need to be this, and I need to be that,

355
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Speaker 2: and I've got to make sure I'm safe and OCD developed.

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Speaker 2: Then it was like, you know, I would I struggled

357
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Speaker 2: with religious OCD. So it was a matter of like

358
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Speaker 2: good and bad morality. If I do this ritual over

359
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Speaker 2: and over and maybe I can make it so that

360
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Speaker 2: I'm good. I would thought loop and I would sift

361
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Speaker 2: through every single interaction I ever had, and I would

362
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Speaker 2: try and figure out from memory, how are people responding

363
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Speaker 2: to me? Did they like me? Am I okay? Let

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Speaker 2: me find the place where I probably inevitably messed up.

365
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Speaker 2: If I can just figure it out, then I'll have

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Speaker 2: a game plan for next time. I mean, John, My

367
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Speaker 2: entire life was spent either dissociated or completely in my

368
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Speaker 2: mind and not at all connected to my heart, to

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Speaker 2: my into which my intuition, which I feel like is

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Speaker 2: God speaking to me, to how things felt. I had

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Speaker 2: no awareness of how I felt about anything, and if

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Speaker 2: I did have any awareness of it, my feeling about

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Speaker 2: life was that feeling sad, feeling pain, feeling anger. All

374
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Speaker 2: of those things meant I was failing because I should

375
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Speaker 2: be perfect, and my okayness and my safety was just

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Speaker 2: all at the mercy of whether or not I could

377
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Speaker 2: be perfect for everyone, And so OCD was was tough.

378
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,679
Speaker 2: I think it was my way of trying to just

379
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Speaker 2: have some sort of control.

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Speaker 1: Which comes up in the song as well.

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Speaker 2: By the way, I appreciate the hand washing was a

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Speaker 2: ritual wash as an adult, I've put it in a

383
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Speaker 2: few of my movies too, and.

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Speaker 1: As someone who also has OCD, like I get it right, yes,

385
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Speaker 1: like diagnosed OCD. You know, my mind didn't manifest necessarily

386
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Speaker 1: as much in the hand washing or what mine was.

387
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Speaker 1: More the intrusive thought OCD, I should say, is right, like,

388
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Speaker 1: it's still something I work through and go to therapy for,

389
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Speaker 1: and I'm in a much better place. But it's not

390
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Speaker 1: it's not ironic to me that that a fellow OCD

391
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 1: person then developed some you know a problem with alcohol,

392
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Speaker 1: because yes, we create our fult.

393
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Speaker 2: You're exhausted, and I think that I just I spent

394
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 2: so long trying it's like the tightest gript possible, right,

395
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Speaker 2: eating disorder, Like let me just try and have some control,

396
00:25:55,240 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 2: but also, you know, make sure that I can ensure

397
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 2: some sort of safety for myself because it's definitely not

398
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 2: inside and so you've kind of this tight grip really

399
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 2: developed as a kid. But then I also look back

400
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 2: and I go I would restrict food, and then I

401
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 2: would binge and I would try and be a perfect

402
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 2: you know, my mom used to My mom used to

403
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 2: use the line my Christian girl, and I try and

404
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 2: be a perfect Christian girl, and then I would just rebel.

405
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 2: And it was like I was constantly regulating this tight

406
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 2: grip and then I needed relief from that tighte grip

407
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,919
Speaker 2: because it's too much to sustain. There was no I

408
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 2: had no balance, I had no center. I was terrified

409
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 2: to feel anything besides fine. I was terrified to express

410
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 2: anythingside sides.

411
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: I'm good.

412
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 2: I had zero idea that I even had needs. Nothing

413
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,400
Speaker 2: was in my control and I was never asked. I

414
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 2: was never asked how I felt. So, you know, I

415
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 2: also think that we're in a generation now, like the

416
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 2: kids today, like so much awareness has been around, like

417
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 2: how do you feel, well, what does that feel like

418
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 2: to you? And well what do you think and what

419
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 2: do you choose? It just wasn't that wasn't a part

420
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 2: of you know, the time. Yeah, So to no one's fault,

421
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 2: it's just these are the you know, that's the belief

422
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 2: that I just formed, that that I was unreliable and

423
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 2: that there was something missing in me. I religioussociated was

424
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 2: a big one. A lot of my rituals were, uh

425
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 2: were around.

426
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Speaker 1: That, and you grew up in a Christian home, I did.

427
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 2: I grew up in a Christian home saying in choir

428
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 2: church choir. Yeah. I had this thing that a ritual.

429
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 2: I guess that developed when I was younger. I was

430
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 2: praying in church and closing my eyes and looking down.

431
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 2: I thought, well, why would be be closing our eyes

432
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 2: and looking down at the devil? And so in my

433
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 2: mind I thought, I never want to be closing my

434
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 2: eyes and looking down because I felt like that was bad.

435
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 2: I was doing something that wasn't right. So I made

436
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 2: this agreement with myself that every single time I blinked,

437
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 2: I would look up at God. And then it became

438
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 2: every time I blink and swallow at the same time,

439
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 2: that's like, do I'm doing something And sort of like

440
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 2: in my child mind, I was like, that's worshiping God.

441
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 2: So then I developed a tick of every time I blinked,

442
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 2: I would I would swallow at the same time and

443
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 2: look up at God. And as you can imagine, it's

444
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 2: like it's a little odd to see. And my mom

445
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 2: was like, I saw you up on stage. I was

446
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 2: like in a play and she was like you started

447
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 2: doing that thing, and yeah, that one was a hard

448
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 2: one to break. But and then it turned into I

449
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 2: would try and bless the corners of the room every

450
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 2: time I walked in a room, to try and make

451
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 2: sure that it was like a holy space. Like it

452
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 2: just you know, it escalates and it becomes it has

453
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 2: a form of its own.

454
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after this.

455
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 2: To get back to your question.

456
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: Detours about weird OCD things I could be like, yeah, yeah,

457
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: like that time I ran over a squirrel and like

458
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 1: literally spent thirty minutes looking for blood because I was

459
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: convinced I hit someone. And my wife is like, what

460
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: took you so long at the store. And I'm like, well,

461
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: you wouldn't get it.

462
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 2: I no idea. You're like, well it didn't take so long.

463
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 2: Get the story.

464
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: Yeah right, I mean, my goodness, I get it. Yes,

465
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: you're you're, you're you're among friendsh.

466
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 2: Well, that is relieving, you know. It's something that I

467
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 2: actually was not even aware of any sort of a

468
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 2: diagnosis until I actually put out our first movie, and

469
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 2: when we got pressed back on the movie, I had

470
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 2: taken some personal stories from my own life and put

471
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 2: them in there, and a bunch of publications and writers

472
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 2: wrote up like we really love how they spotlight HORMOCD

473
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 2: and religious OCD, and I was like, wait, those are

474
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 2: my stories. You're like, uh wait, that's weird, that's oh

475
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 2: but you know so yeah, it's it's an incredibly exhausting

476
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 2: way to live, and it's completely void of any real peace.

477
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 2: And I had I transferred all of my feelings about

478
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 2: how I was doing for people to God, and so

479
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 2: my relationship with was a pretty performative one. And I

480
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 2: really think that I thought, I've I can't a show

481
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 2: him all of me because there's something missing, and he wouldn't.

482
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 2: He wouldn't he won't love me if I do X,

483
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 2: Y and Z. And that's also just so hard as

484
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 2: a kid, then trying to perform for God and all

485
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 2: of that just mental exhaustion and tight grip. You know.

486
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 2: When I became a college student and started drinking, I

487
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 2: would just it was like, thank goodness, I don't have

488
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 2: to think so hard. Yes, thank goodness, I don't have

489
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 2: to try so hard. And you know, my drinking it

490
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:02,479
Speaker 2: wasn't you know, I you know, if I look at

491
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 2: it over a span of you know, ten to twelve years,

492
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 2: from college to early thirties. Like, you know, I went

493
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 2: through period of time in college where every time I drink,

494
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 2: I'd black out, I you know, drove drunk. I did

495
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 2: all of those things. But then I went through periods

496
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 2: of time where I lived in la for a while

497
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 2: and wasn't drinking. But then it was I'm restricting food

498
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 2: and I'm restricting college, you know. I there were a

499
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 2: lot of alcohols, I would say, just a lot of

500
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 2: ways that I tried to just relieve the tension that

501
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 2: I was experiencing. And yeah, and so drunk driving on

502
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 2: godly speeds. I have a very specific image in my

503
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 2: mind when that comes up. When I moved to Nashville

504
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 2: after I graduated college, I would drive drunk home all

505
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 2: the time, and I would just fly down the streets

506
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 2: two o'clock in the morning, whatever time I was trying

507
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 2: to get home. And truly, thank god, I mean it

508
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 2: makes me emotional to this day. Thank God I didn't.

509
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 2: I didn't hurt anyone or myself in those moments.

510
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: And was that Do you think part of that was you?

511
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: You had worked so hard, you know, at controlling things

512
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: when you're drinking, it allows, Okay, I can let go,

513
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: and it's like I think you kind of alluved this,

514
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: but like when you let go, like you let go

515
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: because they're so almost like the tensions.

516
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 2: So much tension, just relief from that tight grip. And

517
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 2: then also like socially, oh my gosh, like I've never

518
00:33:53,120 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 2: I have never really felt comfortable in social situations. I

519
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 2: I always felt so well speaking of not really having

520
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 2: a relationship with my internal worlds, like when you're essentially

521
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,760
Speaker 2: performing for people all the time and trying to figure

522
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 2: out who to be so that they like you. Even

523
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 2: if they do like who you're presenting, you can't feel

524
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 2: it because it's not really you. So I always just

525
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 2: felt so alone and so other and so desperate, and

526
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 2: also recognized I could make people laugh. So even these

527
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 2: like genuine qualities that I feel like God has really

528
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 2: gifted me with, like the ability to be funny and

529
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 2: make people laugh. Like there it was only amount of

530
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 2: time before I started using that. I used anything that

531
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 2: I could to just try and feel loved and accepted,

532
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 2: and yet I could tell people quote unquote adored me.

533
00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 2: And I was like, why do I still feel so alone?

534
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 2: You know, why am I dating this person? I kind

535
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 2: of feel like I maybe don't even like them, but

536
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,399
Speaker 2: that would have never mattered to me, because as long

537
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 2: as they liked me, that was really all I valued.

538
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 2: All I really knew to value was how other people

539
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 2: felt about me. And so I got really good at

540
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 2: kind of not consciously but unconsciously manipulating how people felt

541
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 2: about me and just being who they needed me to be.

542
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 2: And when you're that outside of yourself, it is so uncomfortable.

543
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 2: So when you take that first drink and you can

544
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 2: finally just not have to think about it so much,

545
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 2: and Okay, if somebody doesn't like me in this room, fine,

546
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:53,760
Speaker 2: And also I can be wow, actually I'm a little

547
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 2: even funnier and I don't care that much. And also

548
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 2: I'm just not thinking. Yeah, I was just like I

549
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 2: just don't want to think anymore.

550
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 1: And I think that's what like people have asked me, like,

551
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 1: do you miss like I mean, there's like I'm honest,

552
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: like there are things I miss, right, Like I do.

553
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 1: I do like the taste of bourbon right like so

554
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 1: so in some ways I do miss that, right, But

555
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 1: one of the things I miss so much is that

556
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: care free of like I am so tired of the

557
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: crap of the day I'm so like X, Y and

558
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 1: Z that like, yeah, I miss that. I missed the

559
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: instant relief. And that's why it was so dangerous for me,

560
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 1: right is because it was instant relief. So yeah, I

561
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: miss that.

562
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 2: Now.

563
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 1: I don't miss like all the other crud that it

564
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 1: did to me, but I miss that, like, yeah, there

565
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: was one thing I could do that right now, like

566
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: that would just give me the instant relief, Like yeah,

567
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 1: I miss that.

568
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 2: Like I'll take that. Yeah, it's you know, and and

569
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 2: and then you get to a point where you're like,

570
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 2: you know, for me, the day that I woke up

571
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:14,320
Speaker 2: and I knew I was about to make this choice,

572
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 2: it was because it was not because I had burned

573
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 2: my life to the ground. In fact, my life looked fine.

574
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 2: I had a business things where people would be shocked

575
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 2: to know I had any problems at all. Yeah, but

576
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,839
Speaker 2: I woke up and I thought, speaking of what you're

577
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 2: speaking of, it's like you start to value that, the

578
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 2: instant relief becomes less of a value because you're like,

579
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 2: there is I think God has called me to more

580
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 2: than simply survival. I think there's more for me, and

581
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 2: and I don't want to get there because I'm I'm

582
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 2: pushed there from chaos. I think God is going, hey,

583
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:16,399
Speaker 2: I can let you. Uh, nobody's gonna move you from

584
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 2: this numb, stationary place. But what you are really going

585
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 2: to grieve in this lifetime is the value of everything

586
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 2: I have for you. Like that's that's you becoming way

587
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 2: more than this, Like you're I'm not gonna, I'm not

588
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 2: gonna do you know? Do you know what I'm trying

589
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:38,399
Speaker 2: to say?

590
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 1: Where it's like, I know, I know exactly what you mean.

591
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 2: Because of the value of the relief. I'm like, okay,

592
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:48,240
Speaker 2: the relief from yeah, existence, but do I actually want

593
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 2: to live?

594
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:50,280
Speaker 1: Yeah?

595
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 2: Can I actually live? Because I'm not living?

596
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: And Yeah, when you're running away from your feelings all

597
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,280
Speaker 1: the time, it's like, you know, there's actually a value

598
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 1: in being uncomfortable, right, There's a value in feeling things deeply.

599
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 1: There's value in there's a value in pain, right, Like

600
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: I love C. S. Lewis and he talks about that

601
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: like there is a value, there's something that it does

602
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 1: to us. And so if you're just trying to numb

603
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: it all the time, you're not feeling anything, just like

604
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 1: walking around like a zombie.

605
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 2: The whole. It's wholeness, and I think that that's what

606
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 2: I was like, I can get relief from the existence,

607
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:38,879
Speaker 2: but what you're talking about the wholeness that you experience

608
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 2: in the discomfort, in the pain. If I'm numbing, if

609
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 2: I'm curbing the lows, I'm curbing my highs, and then

610
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 2: I'm just kind of in this weird nothingness and I'm

611
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 2: just trying to find any sort of stimulation. And that

612
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 2: is so u It lacks so much peace, and it

613
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 2: actually lacks so much meaning. And you know, I there

614
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 2: was a richness to life that I was like, I've

615
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,799
Speaker 2: got to be willing to feel all of it and

616
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 2: maybe just maybe all of these feelings that I keep

617
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 2: on have that I've equated to being a failure in life,

618
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:36,359
Speaker 2: Like I really thought feeling any sort of challenge at all,

619
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 2: whether that be feeling sad, being feeling angry, anything anything

620
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,720
Speaker 2: less than copasetic, I thought I was failing at life.

621
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 2: I was like, what if that's actually God asking me

622
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 2: to be more right? Like in here is where I

623
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 2: actually dig the well. In here is where I actually

624
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 2: become a whole human being. Amanda Cook I was watching

625
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 2: an interview of her recently, she's a praise and worship singer.

626
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 2: She wrote an album called Brave New World that got

627
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 2: me through one of the darkest seasons of my life.

628
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 2: And I was watching an interview with her and she

629
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 2: was like, now I take my grief to God. I

630
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 2: take my shame too, Like I feel the experience to God.

631
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 2: And it's like instead of trying to block it, numb it,

632
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 2: avoid it, ignore it, suppress it. Oh, it's actually the

633
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 2: vehicle that takes me deeper. Yeah, And it's like there

634
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 2: was a part of my soul that said, if you

635
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 2: really want to leave the if by the time you

636
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 2: leave this world you actually want to experience being yourself,

637
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 2: you've got to be willing to feel. You've got to

638
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 2: be willing to take all of those emotions deeper or

639
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 2: just at all.

640
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 1: So you talked about that, like that realization that you're

641
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:15,840
Speaker 1: talking about, which I think is so good. Did you

642
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 1: literally just wake up one day and you're like, Okay,

643
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 1: this is it right? Or did it kind of lead

644
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,760
Speaker 1: up to that, like you know, and for some people

645
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 1: there is a moment like where it just happens, right,

646
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 1: and that's that's great. So I'm just curious.

647
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I you know, I think I can look back

648
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 2: on different times in my life and it's funny because

649
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 2: like I had a boyfriend in high school and college

650
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 2: who told me I should stop drinking, and that was

651
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 2: a decade before I even thought I thought anything about it.

652
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 2: There were, like I can look back on the like

653
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 2: little moments and go there was always sort of like

654
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 2: this before it was really ever a formed thought or

655
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 2: in my like a conviction. There were moments that I

656
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 2: was like, this is this is not good for me.

657
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 2: You know. The experience with my niece was kind of

658
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 2: a moment that was sobering, although not you know, the

659
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 2: final the final straw. I the night before I had

660
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:37,839
Speaker 2: that wake up call or that moment of clarity. I

661
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 2: was just at my house drinking with my roommate at

662
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 2: the time, and I drank the same amount that I

663
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 2: had gotten accustomed to drinking, and for whatever reason, on

664
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 2: that particular evening, my body had a complete reaction to it.

665
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:58,959
Speaker 2: I got very sick, and I woke up the next

666
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 2: morning and and it was like pretty pretty undeniable, pretty clear,

667
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 2: and it was like, you have you have two trajector

668
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 2: trajectories in life. You can go this way or you

669
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,840
Speaker 2: can go this way, which one are you going to choose?

670
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 2: And that was it. I called I called my my friend,

671
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 2: my mentor, and I said I think I need to

672
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 2: get sober, and she was like, yeah, okay, and that

673
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 2: was it. That was that was the first phone call.

674
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 2: But you know, that was the first day. It was

675
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 2: September eighth, and that night I still smoked. I used

676
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:51,759
Speaker 2: to smoke weed to go to sleep and and I

677
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:55,359
Speaker 2: I smoked myself to sleep that night. But the next day,

678
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 2: September ninth, is the day that I say, is my

679
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 2: true sober you know anniversary, which was the first day

680
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 2: that I had had no alcohol, and I also stopped smoking. Yeah,

681
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 2: And I was just like, I want I want to

682
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 2: I want to do the hard stuff. Yeah, I want to.

683
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 2: I want to be here, I want to live.

684
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 1: Yeah.

685
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 2: I went to a couple of AA meetings, but it

686
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 2: didn't really it just didn't feel completely right for me.

687
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 2: But I worked with with someone and yeah.

688
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:36,959
Speaker 1: So I think, so, uh nine to nine, you're saying

689
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: is your is you're sober?

690
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 2: Right?

691
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 1: If I heard that right, Yeah, mine is seven nine

692
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 1: of the following So I think you're you're probably was

693
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 1: like twenty two, when's twenty three. Yeah, so something great

694
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 1: about the ninth of the moment the ninth Yeah, And

695
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: what I love about your story and I think I

696
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: want to stress this, especially to people listening, and I've

697
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 1: written about this, but I want to make clear and

698
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: and I love that your story does this is you

699
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 1: don't have to have a rock bottom moment to make

700
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,359
Speaker 1: a decision to like take that fork in the road, right,

701
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 1: And so even though in the song you talk about it,

702
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,720
Speaker 1: but I think what's great is like, yeah, the driving

703
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 1: drunk with my niece wasn't my rock bottom moment. And

704
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 1: even the decision. They're waking up and you know you

705
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 1: had kind of that adverse reaction the night before, but

706
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:25,320
Speaker 1: it wasn't like you woke up and you know in jail,

707
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:29,839
Speaker 1: like there wasn't this thing. And I think it's it's

708
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 1: okay and good like people, you don't have to wait

709
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 1: for the rock bottom moment to say I'm going to

710
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 1: change my relationship with alcohol. And I think that's one

711
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 1: of the things I love about your story is that

712
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: you didn't have that, but you woke up and you said, okay,

713
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 1: this is I I do. I do have two trajectories here, right,

714
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:50,800
Speaker 1: And I think you've I've heard you explain it. I

715
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 1: think this is kind of what you were saying earlier,

716
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 1: is like you felt like the Lord saying to you,

717
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,120
Speaker 1: if you want to go where you want to go,

718
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 1: you can't go there with alcohol.

719
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:07,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I heard that clearly. It almost felt audible.

720
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 2: It was like the person you want to be in

721
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 2: this life, she can't take alcohol with her. And it

722
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 2: was like, that's really where the pain was. The pain

723
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:20,760
Speaker 2: was not in the let in, Like again, I hadn't

724
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 2: set fire to my whole life. That's not where my pain.

725
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:27,319
Speaker 2: I mean, my pain was there, But what was more

726
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 2: painful to me was the idea that I would never

727
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 2: actually be myself. H I would get to the end

728
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,919
Speaker 2: of this life and be like, yeah, no one I've

729
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,759
Speaker 2: ever got to meet Sarah, I barely even got to

730
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 2: That to me was like, oh, I could leave here

731
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 2: and I could just leave a calling on the table,

732
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 2: Like I didn't. I didn't become who I feel so

733
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 2: convicted to be that became.

734
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 1: I think those lies came from by the way, you know,

735
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,760
Speaker 1: you kind of talk about the the lie. It seems

736
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 1: like it's like you can't be yourself right, and so

737
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:20,320
Speaker 1: you talked a little bit earlier, and I think it's important.

738
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 1: Just like there were some people early in your life

739
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:25,799
Speaker 1: that said you're too much, you're too loud. I had

740
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:29,319
Speaker 1: those same people and and I can tell you that

741
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 1: as I've worked through therapy in the last year, it's

742
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:34,920
Speaker 1: I knew they were there, but it's shocking to me

743
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 1: how much power I gave them from a young age

744
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: that carried through with me. And so I'm just curious,

745
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,919
Speaker 1: like that, the lie that you can't be yourself, where

746
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 1: do you think that started?

747
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 2: I think you sorry really young. For me, I think

748
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 2: I didn't have a lot of choice as a kid.

749
00:48:55,640 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 2: And you know, I had I had people in my life,

750
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 2: adults in my life who I think, we're just trying

751
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:07,399
Speaker 2: to protect me and keep me safe, but had an

752
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 2: idea about, you know, what the right what the right

753
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,400
Speaker 2: things for me to do were. And so it's just

754
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 2: I I I was not ever really validated in what

755
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 2: felt right to me, and when I would make choices,

756
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 2: I was invalidated or I was quickly corrected. And so

757
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:44,799
Speaker 2: it just just kind of constant, constant messaging of of

758
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 2: who you are is wrong. Yeah, it's just not uh,

759
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 2: you know, And I don't even know if that was

760
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 2: I know that that was even the intention. That's just

761
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 2: how I felt. That's just how I interpreted it. Yeah,

762
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 2: you know, and I think that that can be the case.

763
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 2: Like I think about it now, and it's like, especially now,

764
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 2: if I were to have kids, it's like, you set

765
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 2: kids free in the world, and then you just it's

766
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 2: hard to watch them navigate it. I'm sure you know,

767
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 2: and you want to protect them and you want to

768
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 2: keep them safe, and you don't want them to experience

769
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 2: what you experienced. It's like it's so hard to just

770
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 2: let let people live, let people figure it out and

771
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 2: watch it. It can be so painful. But I just

772
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 2: didn't really get to build that muscle of choice. I

773
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 2: didn't really I didn't get to succeed or fail by

774
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:52,320
Speaker 2: my own merit. I didn't get to learn those hard

775
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 2: lessons on my own and kind of figure it out.

776
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 2: And I, you know, teachers in school. I mean I

777
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,760
Speaker 2: never got to go to a single like semester party,

778
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 2: all the things. I was just kind of everywhere I

779
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:10,280
Speaker 2: looked and everywhere I turned, it just kind of felt

780
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 2: like stop, no, don't not okay, you know, And so

781
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 2: I think one day I just went all right, like,

782
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 2: I it's too hard to fight this. I don't wasn't

783
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 2: thinking that in real time. Just if I think back

784
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 2: in retrospect, I think I just at some point I

785
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:35,319
Speaker 2: just kind of surrendered every ounce of personal autonomy and

786
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 2: power that I had, and I just went, here, you go,

787
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 2: tell me who I am, tell me what to do,

788
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 2: tell me how to feel. That's it. In some ways,

789
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,439
Speaker 2: it was a huge blessing because I think it's why

790
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:55,880
Speaker 2: I became a really great actress, because I started becoming

791
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 2: so aware of how other people were doing, and how

792
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 2: other people felt, and what other people needed. I was.

793
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:08,759
Speaker 2: I was so disconnected from myself, but I became incredibly empathetic,

794
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 2: to the point of like I lost myself completely, but

795
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 2: I knew everyone else, and I could. I could easily

796
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 2: imagine somebody else's experience. I could easily dive into somebody

797
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:30,400
Speaker 2: else's mind. And so now when I play characters and write,

798
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 2: I write films, I'm like, yeah, I've stood in a

799
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 2: lot of people's shoes, so yeah, I can do that.

800
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:40,399
Speaker 2: So in a weird way, I mean nothing. I don't

801
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:43,879
Speaker 2: think anything's an accident. I like look back and I'm like, yeah,

802
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:48,239
Speaker 2: exactly like the entire time it was forging me to

803
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 2: be an artist and thank God for that.

804
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and how he took that right like like what

805
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 1: was in a sense meant for evil, like he can

806
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 1: take for good. And I think what you're saying is

807
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 1: so yeah, yeah, and the end.

808
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 2: Of the song, oh go ahead, no please you Well.

809
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 1: I was gonna says that as as the father of

810
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 1: a young girl who I see some so many of

811
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:21,800
Speaker 1: the things you're talking about in her. A deep empathy

812
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:28,760
Speaker 1: she's nine, a deep empathy, a but yet a hyper awareness.

813
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 1: You know, she's been There's a thing called a just

814
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:36,239
Speaker 1: be a highly sensitive person. She's that, right, and so

815
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 1: there is a greatness to that. But there is also

816
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 1: a uh something that worries me deeply. And yet I

817
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:49,839
Speaker 1: have to I have to let her experience some of that.

818
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 1: And yet I don't like no, because I see her

819
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 1: as a little girl that I danced with in the

820
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 1: hospital room when she was first born, you know, and

821
00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:59,359
Speaker 1: that's something that I need to work through, right. Yeah,

822
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 1: So I appreciate you saying that, but you're going to

823
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 1: say towards the end of the song that you're mine.

824
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 2: Before I forget you bring up a really great point,

825
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 2: which is that sometimes it's not even you know, if

826
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 2: you are born with that kind of sensitivity, I think

827
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 2: it's really easy and natural for you to try and

828
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 2: regulate your own emotions by regulating everybody else's because you're

829
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 2: so sensitive that you can feel their discomfort, you can

830
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 2: feel their pain, and because that is then painful and

831
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 2: uncomfortable for you, you can get really good at shape shifting

832
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:45,359
Speaker 2: and trying to elevate their mood, not necessarily for them,

833
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 2: but so that you can feel safe in the room too.

834
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:52,760
Speaker 2: And I think that that's something that like mpaths struggle

835
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 2: with a lot sensitive people, because you're like, I will

836
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 2: finally be okay if everybody else here is okay, because

837
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 2: I don't know how to separate me from them. And

838
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,840
Speaker 2: I think that that is also something I was dealing

839
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:10,359
Speaker 2: with and that had nothing to do with mine, you know,

840
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 2: anybody who was around me, teachers, parents, friends, nothing, It

841
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 2: was just I am sensitive and thank god, but but yeah,

842
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 2: it's it's been difficult for me to be able to

843
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 2: separate myself from other people. It's something that I'm just

844
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:34,719
Speaker 2: now building a relationship with in these two years of sobriety,

845
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 2: Like I'm I'm finally okay with It's funny. I didn't

846
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 2: feel like anybody was allowing me to live and experience life,

847
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:46,680
Speaker 2: but everybody that I met, I was also in my

848
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:51,399
Speaker 2: own way trying to change so that I could then

849
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:54,320
Speaker 2: feel more comfortable. It's funny how we kind of mirror

850
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 2: things like that, right, It's like, Yeah, I didn't want

851
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:01,120
Speaker 2: people to feel Now, Oh, I'm getting better at being

852
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:03,799
Speaker 2: like they're going to feel sad today and I don't

853
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:05,960
Speaker 2: have to fix that for them. In fact, i'd be

854
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 2: robbing them of something probably really really beautiful if I do. Wow,

855
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 2: that's a big one. That's a big one for me.

856
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 2: A big lesson that I've learned in these two years

857
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 2: is just what I've robbed myself of and what I've

858
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:25,880
Speaker 2: robbed other people of by trying to save them and

859
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:28,240
Speaker 2: save myself in the process.

860
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 1: How do you then? You know, you talked about the

861
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 1: artist a little bit, the Christian artists earlier, and so

862
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:39,919
Speaker 1: maybe this is part of the answer. But so if

863
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 1: for so long you were trying to shape shift and

864
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:44,880
Speaker 1: get away from the emotions and then use the drinking

865
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:48,239
Speaker 1: and the weed and the whatever to run away from

866
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:53,239
Speaker 1: the emotions, what does it look like now for Sarah

867
00:56:53,760 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 1: to sit with and handle and deal with those uncomfortable emotions.

868
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:08,239
Speaker 2: It is a daily walk, It is a daily decision,

869
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:20,760
Speaker 2: a moment by moment thing, you know. I would say

870
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 2: that I still have tells I can tell and I'm like, oh,

871
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 2: I'm distracting myself, right. There are other alcohols, right, Like,

872
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 2: we've got phones, we have TV, we have you know,

873
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 2: endless coffee dates with friends, we you know, whatever, whatever

874
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 2: it is, there, there's always a way to run and

875
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 2: to distract. But I would say that I've been fortunate

876
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 2: enough enough to be able to really really sit through

877
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 2: and bear and have the courage I've asked, I've prayed

878
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 2: for courage, just courage, like God helped me have the

879
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:13,040
Speaker 2: courage to just bear this emotion and processing all the

880
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:16,320
Speaker 2: way through something to the point where it lifts off

881
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 2: of my chest. I feel lighter. And not only do

882
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 2: I feel lighter, but I feel like, in speaking of

883
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 2: the song and sobering, the most sobering thing I've experienced

884
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:35,680
Speaker 2: has been grace that everything in the past was repurposed

885
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 2: for the future. And every single time I really sit

886
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 2: with an emotion and let it kind of like I

887
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 2: let it burn in me. I receive epiphany, or I

888
00:58:57,240 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 2: receive peace, or I receive just a deeper capacity than

889
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:08,400
Speaker 2: I had before. I feel like I have more endurance,

890
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 2: Like there's there's a feeling of there's a feeling of

891
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 2: peace that is way better than just the instant relief,

892
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:28,240
Speaker 2: right that we were talking about before. That is just unparalleled.

893
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 2: And yeah, the hard part is just feeling through it.

894
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:42,040
Speaker 2: But I'd say today, what that actually looks like. It

895
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:47,760
Speaker 2: looks like prayer. It looks like sitting down at my

896
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 2: piano and just being very honest with myself and with God.

897
00:59:54,440 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 2: It looks like crying. It looks like screaming. Sometimes, it

898
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:04,280
Speaker 2: looks like going and talking to a friend and just

899
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:13,080
Speaker 2: being witnessed. It looks like saying the hard thing. Like

900
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:17,240
Speaker 2: it looks like communication. Right, there was so much I

901
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 2: kept inside all the time, and so now it's just

902
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:25,200
Speaker 2: the bravery of hey, like oof, that's not okay with me?

903
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:33,960
Speaker 2: That really hurts. Speaking of vulnerability, but it's like it's

904
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 2: having the courage to be fully authentic and like have

905
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 2: your raw experience of life. And it's not for the week, right,

906
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:48,960
Speaker 2: But I don't believe anybody's weak, None of us are.

907
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:54,240
Speaker 2: It's just that so often I think we live in

908
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:57,200
Speaker 2: this projection of what we want to be the case

909
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 2: rather than the actual reality. So now it's just like

910
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:04,360
Speaker 2: if I can be still for two seconds and radically

911
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:11,360
Speaker 2: accept what is, then I can go from there. Also,

912
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:17,160
Speaker 2: it's not nearly as monstrous as we think it's gonna be.

913
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:24,440
Speaker 2: I would say distraction and avoidance is far more intolerable

914
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:33,280
Speaker 2: to me now than just crying. Right, It's like, why

915
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:34,959
Speaker 2: do we have to drag it out?

916
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:36,840
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after this.

917
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 2: It is.

918
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:43,080
Speaker 1: That is funny, right, because I found that, like it's

919
01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:48,440
Speaker 1: this was just the other night. Actually my wife was

920
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:50,280
Speaker 1: out either with some friends or at a church thing

921
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:53,840
Speaker 1: or something, I don't know, like I had football on

922
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 1: or something, and and yet I was still kind of

923
01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:00,520
Speaker 1: processing some things like like, by the way, just because

924
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:03,200
Speaker 1: I'm sober and now I'm not doing X, Y and Z,

925
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:07,720
Speaker 1: like life is still hard newsflash, And I don't either

926
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 1: of us are promising that it's like like gonna be easy.

927
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:14,720
Speaker 1: And I just like I was like I could sit

928
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:17,479
Speaker 1: here or I could just like turn the TV off,

929
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:20,400
Speaker 1: lay in bed, think and pray about that, but about this,

930
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:22,760
Speaker 1: and like that was literally more appealing to me than

931
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 1: watching football, like, and I'm like, there was like a

932
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:29,560
Speaker 1: moment I'm like who are you? You know, like who

933
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 1: are you? Like?

934
01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 2: What?

935
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:33,920
Speaker 1: Who's this guy? What have you done with John?

936
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 2: You know?

937
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:39,560
Speaker 1: But but yet that's the truth. And I think sometimes

938
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:42,400
Speaker 1: it almost like almost to a person, everyone that I've

939
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:45,720
Speaker 1: interviewed has said something similar to what you just said, uh,

940
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:53,680
Speaker 1: of like the peace and the relief that I found

941
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 1: in in being sober and being authentic and spending time

942
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:02,600
Speaker 1: with the Lord. I know it's hard to understand, but

943
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:06,360
Speaker 1: yet that has been like that is so sweet and

944
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:11,320
Speaker 1: it is so beautiful. Yeah, And I think what what

945
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 1: is so hard for me sometimes is like I talk

946
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 1: with people who are in early sobriety and they're like,

947
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:18,240
Speaker 1: does it get better? And I'm like, yes it does.

948
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:24,000
Speaker 1: And I'm not just blowing smoke up your butt when

949
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:28,000
Speaker 1: I say it is beautiful, like there is something better

950
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 1: it really it really is awesome. I don't know, like,

951
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 1: how do you explain that to someone?

952
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:41,560
Speaker 2: I think, h huh. I think it's just your values

953
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:46,080
Speaker 2: really start to shift where you start to realize, you know,

954
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:50,400
Speaker 2: before I used to really value what other people thought

955
01:03:50,440 --> 01:03:53,400
Speaker 2: about me. Or whether or not somebody else was okay.

956
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 2: And now I actually really just value whether or not

957
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 2: I find peace in this situation. Now I actually vow

958
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:05,720
Speaker 2: value and honor how I feel and what and my intuition,

959
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:08,000
Speaker 2: Like I bring intuition up a lot. And I know

960
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 2: that that's a word that some people get a little

961
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:12,840
Speaker 2: tripped up on. But for me, again, that is God

962
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:17,600
Speaker 2: speaking to me. That is my gut. And there's a

963
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:23,240
Speaker 2: reason why I feel a certain way, and sometimes I

964
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 2: don't even know why, but that's faith, right, you don't

965
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:30,880
Speaker 2: know why, you don't have to understand. But the more

966
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:39,880
Speaker 2: and more I line up with my that guidance, the

967
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:45,000
Speaker 2: less I value the outcome, the less I value the

968
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:50,360
Speaker 2: outside what it looks like, because the piece is just

969
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:54,880
Speaker 2: again it's undeniable. So that's what that's what sobriety looks like. Now,

970
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:57,600
Speaker 2: that's what my days look like. Now, it looks like

971
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:01,520
Speaker 2: as often as I can and as much as like,

972
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:11,400
Speaker 2: just trying to align myself with peace. And some days

973
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 2: I'm better than others.

974
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:22,800
Speaker 1: Right right, So for anyone who is saying, like, who's

975
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:29,480
Speaker 1: really resonating with your story? Which I think you if

976
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:33,160
Speaker 1: you can't resonate in some way you don't have a pulse,

977
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 1: But like, what is your advice to them about? Hey,

978
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:43,600
Speaker 1: I I think like I want that, like what you

979
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:47,160
Speaker 1: just talked about, like that piece, that author of piece,

980
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:49,800
Speaker 1: Like like I want to get there, and I think

981
01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 1: especially you know this podcast is called Confessions of a

982
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:54,959
Speaker 1: Christian Alcoholic, right, so it's like news you know again,

983
01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:58,080
Speaker 1: news flash, Like you can be a Christian and that

984
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:01,880
Speaker 1: be missing in your life. Okay, like it was for me,

985
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:05,520
Speaker 1: it was for you. So like, what is your advice

986
01:06:05,560 --> 01:06:07,560
Speaker 1: to that person says, Okay, I want to get there.

987
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:10,840
Speaker 1: I want that, but like I don't. Even the idea

988
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:12,439
Speaker 1: of the thought of what I have to go through

989
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:16,480
Speaker 1: scares me.

990
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:20,400
Speaker 2: My advice is more of like a call, which is

991
01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:25,160
Speaker 2: like we need you. It's like the world needs you.

992
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:31,680
Speaker 2: And if you could for a second believe that you

993
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:41,640
Speaker 2: were uniquely and perfectly made to be exactly like you

994
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:45,640
Speaker 2: have an intention and a purpose and a place in

995
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:49,000
Speaker 2: this world. And if you spend your whole life be

996
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:52,720
Speaker 2: in a few degrees separated from that person or just

997
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:58,400
Speaker 2: taking yourself out of the game, what a loss. Like

998
01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:06,560
Speaker 2: I think it would be really beautiful if people showed

999
01:07:06,680 --> 01:07:11,800
Speaker 2: up inside of their intention and followed their peace, because

1000
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:14,680
Speaker 2: then we would have a fighting chance of actually feeling

1001
01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:18,920
Speaker 2: connected to ourselves and to other people. Like I said earlier,

1002
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 2: I always felt so alone because I wasn't actually home,

1003
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:30,000
Speaker 2: like I was outside somewhere trying to be something else

1004
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:35,520
Speaker 2: for everyone else. And so they liked an idea. There

1005
01:07:35,560 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 2: was an attachment, not a connection. But the coolest part

1006
01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:49,280
Speaker 2: about sobriety is that actually you stop thinking so much

1007
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:56,200
Speaker 2: about yourself. And that's pretty relieving too, because like, oh,

1008
01:07:56,320 --> 01:07:59,160
Speaker 2: I get to actually see the person in front of me,

1009
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:03,440
Speaker 2: and becomes way less about everything that you feel like

1010
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:06,280
Speaker 2: you need to get because you think you lack something,

1011
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:09,640
Speaker 2: and it becomes about everything that you have to give.

1012
01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:14,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and yes, that.

1013
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:19,160
Speaker 2: Is far more satisfying than any bourbon ever will be.

1014
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:26,439
Speaker 2: Understanding that you lack nothing. You are not missing a

1015
01:08:26,479 --> 01:08:33,720
Speaker 2: single thing. You have everything you need. And if you

1016
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:37,719
Speaker 2: have everything that you need, there's nothing for you to get,

1017
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:41,080
Speaker 2: there's nothing outside of you that is going to make

1018
01:08:41,160 --> 01:08:44,200
Speaker 2: you whole. Then oh my gosh, you get to live

1019
01:08:44,240 --> 01:08:47,519
Speaker 2: the rest of your days becoming more and more and

1020
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:51,719
Speaker 2: more so that you can give more and more and.

1021
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:57,080
Speaker 1: More, which is the call of our lives, right yeah,

1022
01:08:57,320 --> 01:09:01,200
Speaker 1: like like like it shouldn't shock us, even though it does.

1023
01:09:01,360 --> 01:09:06,280
Speaker 1: But like, oh, the whole idea of denying yourself and

1024
01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:11,519
Speaker 1: giving to others actually giving you peace. Wow, it's like

1025
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:14,960
Speaker 1: we've read that since the beginning of you know, Sunday School.

1026
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:19,400
Speaker 1: And yet I think for me, so many of these

1027
01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:24,000
Speaker 1: like truths that I just ignored, brushed over, thought were

1028
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:27,080
Speaker 1: silly from when now I was growing up have become

1029
01:09:27,320 --> 01:09:31,240
Speaker 1: so alive to me in sobriety, right, And I think

1030
01:09:31,280 --> 01:09:34,360
Speaker 1: it's because it's not like so a lack of alcohol

1031
01:09:34,439 --> 01:09:35,040
Speaker 1: has done that.

1032
01:09:35,080 --> 01:09:35,280
Speaker 2: Well.

1033
01:09:35,320 --> 01:09:37,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess in some ways, like I'm done

1034
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:41,560
Speaker 1: destroying my brain. So yes, I think it should be

1035
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:43,960
Speaker 1: a shock that I can see things clear. But this

1036
01:09:44,320 --> 01:09:46,719
Speaker 1: But but what you said I think is so important

1037
01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:52,160
Speaker 1: is like the gateway is like denying yourself. When you

1038
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:56,240
Speaker 1: learn that, like, you know what, I'm not just going

1039
01:09:56,360 --> 01:10:01,240
Speaker 1: to fulfill every desire, fulfill every need to escape for feel,

1040
01:10:01,280 --> 01:10:06,080
Speaker 1: every need to cope and mask and whatnot. That practice,

1041
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:10,360
Speaker 1: that practice of denying yourself like opens up a gateway.

1042
01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:13,280
Speaker 1: And so I love that you said that, Like, thank

1043
01:10:13,360 --> 01:10:14,960
Speaker 1: you so much for that.

1044
01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:21,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, isn't it like isn't it exciting? To think about

1045
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:24,680
Speaker 2: the future when you think about it in terms of

1046
01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:27,920
Speaker 2: like if I lack nothing, then there's so much I

1047
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:31,439
Speaker 2: have to create. There's so much to give, there's so

1048
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:36,479
Speaker 2: much new, there's so much to build, rather than thinking

1049
01:10:36,479 --> 01:10:39,639
Speaker 2: about the future and thinking, oh gosh, I hope I can,

1050
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:44,559
Speaker 2: like I hope I can survive it. Yeah, it's like

1051
01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:48,760
Speaker 2: I want to feel like I'm just for the for

1052
01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:51,040
Speaker 2: the rest of my days, Like there's not a single

1053
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:57,280
Speaker 2: day that I can't create something that's exciting, even if

1054
01:10:57,280 --> 01:11:00,720
Speaker 2: it's creating what we're doing right now, we're creating conversation.

1055
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:07,880
Speaker 2: Like there's so much life to be lived and we're

1056
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:11,160
Speaker 2: never separate from it. I think that that's the most

1057
01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:14,120
Speaker 2: devastating part of all. The biggest lie I ever told

1058
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:17,840
Speaker 2: was that we're ever separate from God, was that we're

1059
01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:25,720
Speaker 2: ever separate from true life itself. And it's like, you know,

1060
01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:31,160
Speaker 2: if you think that, then you're desperate and you're you're

1061
01:11:31,200 --> 01:11:36,439
Speaker 2: just desperately guessing and grabbing and trying to get This

1062
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:37,679
Speaker 2: doesn't have to be that way.

1063
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:42,320
Speaker 1: I think, like what you said is is I tell

1064
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:45,720
Speaker 1: people that like when I got sober, it was like

1065
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:50,200
Speaker 1: taking a limitless pill because I feel like, so what

1066
01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:54,559
Speaker 1: you're talking about creativity? Yeah, like approaching the future with

1067
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:57,559
Speaker 1: like more like a you know, like a carpe freaking

1068
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:02,960
Speaker 1: dam Yeah. That's exciting. Yeah, it's like because because like, yeah,

1069
01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:05,960
Speaker 1: I took like this limitless pill. But by giving something up,

1070
01:12:06,360 --> 01:12:09,120
Speaker 1: I took this limitless pill that my creativity and my

1071
01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:12,760
Speaker 1: work ethic and my my brain power like physically but

1072
01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:18,040
Speaker 1: emotionally and spiritually is just like so much better. Right,

1073
01:12:18,720 --> 01:12:21,960
Speaker 1: and and so I I think that's uh. I think

1074
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:24,599
Speaker 1: that's a key part of what you're saying. I want

1075
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:26,240
Speaker 1: to ask you this as we kind of wrap up,

1076
01:12:26,880 --> 01:12:30,120
Speaker 1: how would you categorize? How would you explain? How would

1077
01:12:30,120 --> 01:12:37,439
Speaker 1: you decipher? What has your relationship with God been like

1078
01:12:37,960 --> 01:12:44,799
Speaker 1: since you've made this decision in this choice.

1079
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:59,719
Speaker 2: Sum Yeah, I think the biggest, I think the biggest

1080
01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:13,160
Speaker 2: for me to really truly believe is that I can't

1081
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:18,880
Speaker 2: mess up. There's nothing that I could ever do to

1082
01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:21,000
Speaker 2: make him love me more, and there's nothing that I've

1083
01:13:21,040 --> 01:13:27,400
Speaker 2: ever done that made him love me less. You know,

1084
01:13:29,280 --> 01:13:37,600
Speaker 2: when you are living in a dissociated way outside of yourself, desperate,

1085
01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:47,280
Speaker 2: feeling disconnected from truly God, who's yeah, you know, holy

1086
01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:53,160
Speaker 2: spirit is in us. Then you're walking such a tight rope,

1087
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:58,240
Speaker 2: and it's really easy to then try and assess where

1088
01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:04,280
Speaker 2: in life you're failing, And I think, what's the scripture?

1089
01:14:04,360 --> 01:14:11,280
Speaker 2: Consider it all joy? And now I'm like, oh, every

1090
01:14:11,479 --> 01:14:20,040
Speaker 2: single piece of this, like I'm not failing, and so

1091
01:14:20,439 --> 01:14:29,120
Speaker 2: there's actually space and room for me to build an

1092
01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:40,639
Speaker 2: honest and vulnerable relationship with God. I think I'm still learning.

1093
01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:43,799
Speaker 2: I say, I'll be learning for the rest of my life,

1094
01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:50,320
Speaker 2: but I think I've finally maybe learned how to how

1095
01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:58,320
Speaker 2: to just start having a conversation rather than hoping he's

1096
01:14:59,360 --> 01:15:01,720
Speaker 2: having a good time in the audience of my one

1097
01:15:01,760 --> 01:15:02,720
Speaker 2: woman show.

1098
01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:13,480
Speaker 3: Like I'm I'm humbled. I'm humbled by grace.

1099
01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:23,040
Speaker 2: And yeah, I don't know if that if that answers

1100
01:15:23,080 --> 01:15:27,480
Speaker 2: your question. I just think that there are no rules,

1101
01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:31,280
Speaker 2: and I think I always tried to like subscribe to

1102
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:36,200
Speaker 2: so many rules, and now I'm just like, I just

1103
01:15:36,360 --> 01:15:42,600
Speaker 2: like talking to him. Yes, yes, it's pretty elementary, beautiful.

1104
01:15:43,280 --> 01:15:48,360
Speaker 2: My relationship with God is pretty elementary. But that's that's

1105
01:15:48,439 --> 01:15:55,519
Speaker 2: kind of the only thing that really makes sense and

1106
01:15:55,600 --> 01:15:59,320
Speaker 2: no sense at all. It's like I just can't I've

1107
01:15:59,360 --> 01:16:01,519
Speaker 2: really had to let go of the idea that you

1108
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:06,040
Speaker 2: know to be performing and doing well, you have to

1109
01:16:06,120 --> 01:16:08,760
Speaker 2: know the rules, and you have to know what's expected

1110
01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:11,200
Speaker 2: of you, and you have to understand. And I think

1111
01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:13,519
Speaker 2: the one thing I now really understand is that I'm

1112
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:14,720
Speaker 2: never going to understand.

1113
01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:19,599
Speaker 1: I think you just so beautifully summed up.

1114
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:20,160
Speaker 2: You know.

1115
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:24,040
Speaker 1: I talk about the importance of abiding, and that is

1116
01:16:24,320 --> 01:16:25,439
Speaker 1: that is it right there?

1117
01:16:25,640 --> 01:16:25,840
Speaker 2: Right?

1118
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:32,559
Speaker 1: Like it's elementary, you know, Uh, it's not ritualistic. And

1119
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:34,799
Speaker 1: yet I do get up every morning.

1120
01:16:35,200 --> 01:16:35,360
Speaker 2: You know.

1121
01:16:35,360 --> 01:16:36,839
Speaker 1: I used to be the one that was like quiet

1122
01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:39,200
Speaker 1: time in the morning, like stop telling me what to do,

1123
01:16:39,760 --> 01:16:43,160
Speaker 1: and now I do it. But it's like full circle,

1124
01:16:43,200 --> 01:16:44,840
Speaker 1: like it's not because I have to. I'm like, no,

1125
01:16:44,880 --> 01:16:47,760
Speaker 1: I get to you. And for me, it's like it's

1126
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:50,280
Speaker 1: a praying and it's a writing and it's a journaling

1127
01:16:50,360 --> 01:16:52,760
Speaker 1: and it's an asking and it's a seeking and it's

1128
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:57,040
Speaker 1: just a talking. And yes, it is elementary. And the

1129
01:16:57,240 --> 01:17:00,960
Speaker 1: irony is that in the elementary aspect of it is

1130
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:06,439
Speaker 1: become I found a ritual. I don't know if that

1131
01:17:06,479 --> 01:17:07,200
Speaker 1: even makes sense.

1132
01:17:08,680 --> 01:17:11,760
Speaker 2: I get what you're saying, I really do you know

1133
01:17:11,800 --> 01:17:16,880
Speaker 2: what it is too, is I'm less careful now with

1134
01:17:16,960 --> 01:17:21,160
Speaker 2: God I used to try and be so careful with

1135
01:17:21,200 --> 01:17:26,120
Speaker 2: my words, so careful. I was on that same tightrope

1136
01:17:26,120 --> 01:17:28,200
Speaker 2: with God. Oh gosh, Like I can't go there. I

1137
01:17:28,200 --> 01:17:33,240
Speaker 2: can't say that I think God can handle it.

1138
01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:39,599
Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, I think I don't think.

1139
01:17:39,439 --> 01:17:41,120
Speaker 2: I need to be careful with God.

1140
01:17:42,120 --> 01:17:45,280
Speaker 1: Yes, I've been so mad at God over the last like,

1141
01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:50,320
Speaker 1: or let me put this way, I have expressed more

1142
01:17:50,360 --> 01:17:53,160
Speaker 1: of my anger to God over the last sixteen seventeen

1143
01:17:53,160 --> 01:17:56,519
Speaker 1: months in sobriety than ever before. Yeah, and I feel

1144
01:17:56,560 --> 01:17:57,800
Speaker 1: so much more close to him.

1145
01:17:58,280 --> 01:18:04,040
Speaker 2: Oh, it's just that's what it is. It's like, you

1146
01:18:04,080 --> 01:18:11,640
Speaker 2: know what, I'm so I'm so tired of I'm just

1147
01:18:11,720 --> 01:18:17,040
Speaker 2: so tired of. The image in my mind is like

1148
01:18:17,080 --> 01:18:20,280
Speaker 2: a bull's eye, And it's like, can we just address

1149
01:18:20,360 --> 01:18:22,880
Speaker 2: the thing in the room. Can we just talk about

1150
01:18:22,920 --> 01:18:24,600
Speaker 2: the thing? Can we just get to the heart of it?

1151
01:18:24,720 --> 01:18:27,280
Speaker 2: Can we go straight to the nerve? And I think

1152
01:18:27,400 --> 01:18:34,680
Speaker 2: just the willingness to just really be completely disarmed with

1153
01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:37,639
Speaker 2: your in your own mind, your own heart, your soul,

1154
01:18:38,160 --> 01:18:46,600
Speaker 2: and just really lay it all out. That's that's the

1155
01:18:46,720 --> 01:18:50,120
Speaker 2: kind of place that I want to be in life. Like,

1156
01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:56,360
Speaker 2: I I feel like I have finally under you know,

1157
01:18:56,439 --> 01:19:00,920
Speaker 2: I finally understand that my peace, this is something that

1158
01:19:00,960 --> 01:19:04,599
Speaker 2: I don't have to protect. I don't have to protect God,

1159
01:19:05,240 --> 01:19:11,799
Speaker 2: and I don't have to protect God from me. God

1160
01:19:11,920 --> 01:19:16,680
Speaker 2: protects me from the inside out. There's no room I

1161
01:19:16,720 --> 01:19:21,720
Speaker 2: can't walk into. There is no thing that I have

1162
01:19:21,800 --> 01:19:24,760
Speaker 2: to be afraid of. Orwen McManus is the pastor that

1163
01:19:24,800 --> 01:19:27,160
Speaker 2: I really love, and he goes, I'm gonna butcher this,

1164
01:19:27,240 --> 01:19:29,639
Speaker 2: but it's something along the lines of he says, so

1165
01:19:29,680 --> 01:19:32,320
Speaker 2: that there is nothing left to fear on this earth

1166
01:19:32,439 --> 01:19:37,280
Speaker 2: besides God, Like there's nothing left here to fear, And

1167
01:19:37,320 --> 01:19:43,720
Speaker 2: it's like that internal world, that internal relationship protects you

1168
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:46,519
Speaker 2: from the inside out so that we're not walking this

1169
01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:47,839
Speaker 2: tightrope forever.

1170
01:19:49,520 --> 01:19:58,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, that line you said earlier about like like not

1171
01:19:58,400 --> 01:20:01,320
Speaker 1: not treating God like like you like it was, so

1172
01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:03,759
Speaker 1: I'm gonna butcher what you just said. But but about

1173
01:20:03,840 --> 01:20:07,400
Speaker 1: the one woman like the one woman show of Sarah, Yeah,

1174
01:20:07,439 --> 01:20:10,760
Speaker 1: you know, and that like he sees through it all

1175
01:20:11,080 --> 01:20:17,719
Speaker 1: is just so freeing and so so beautiful. And I think,

1176
01:20:18,400 --> 01:20:19,920
Speaker 1: you know, just in general, I want to thank you

1177
01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:24,200
Speaker 1: for you know, you talked about like I just want

1178
01:20:24,240 --> 01:20:27,439
Speaker 1: to thank you for showing up and allowing us to see,

1179
01:20:28,360 --> 01:20:30,840
Speaker 1: you know, a glimpse of of who you are, right

1180
01:20:30,840 --> 01:20:35,519
Speaker 1: because I think you know, like we said, like follow

1181
01:20:35,520 --> 01:20:37,320
Speaker 1: you on social media and all that's great, and you

1182
01:20:37,320 --> 01:20:40,920
Speaker 1: put out great content and that's all awesome, but like

1183
01:20:41,000 --> 01:20:44,519
Speaker 1: I love seeing the glimpse of you as like this

1184
01:20:45,880 --> 01:20:48,160
Speaker 1: who I think you truly are, which is this like

1185
01:20:48,800 --> 01:20:54,400
Speaker 1: deep thinker, this deep feeler, this this person who's slow

1186
01:20:54,640 --> 01:20:58,000
Speaker 1: in the best way. And and I love that right,

1187
01:20:58,120 --> 01:21:00,960
Speaker 1: Like you can watch a sketch and be like, oh,

1188
01:21:01,560 --> 01:21:03,639
Speaker 1: never would have got that, right, And so I thank

1189
01:21:03,680 --> 01:21:07,120
Speaker 1: you for allowing us and me to peek into that

1190
01:21:07,400 --> 01:21:11,760
Speaker 1: Sarah who I think is the real Sarah. And and

1191
01:21:11,920 --> 01:21:15,280
Speaker 1: this was just such such a beautiful treat. Thank you

1192
01:21:15,360 --> 01:21:18,599
Speaker 1: so much. I think if people want to, by the way,

1193
01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:21,720
Speaker 1: if they want to, like, you know, follow you, if

1194
01:21:21,760 --> 01:21:24,400
Speaker 1: they want to see the music you're putting out, which

1195
01:21:24,439 --> 01:21:28,040
Speaker 1: is great, if they want to see the films that

1196
01:21:28,040 --> 01:21:31,360
Speaker 1: you're starring in and writing, where can they go to

1197
01:21:31,400 --> 01:21:33,920
Speaker 1: get more of kind of like that that landing page,

1198
01:21:33,920 --> 01:21:35,479
Speaker 1: if you will, of you.

1199
01:21:37,520 --> 01:21:41,599
Speaker 2: I mean, my Instagram is at Sarah Zanatti. I have

1200
01:21:41,680 --> 01:21:46,080
Speaker 2: two movies that are on all streaming, like you get Amazon,

1201
01:21:46,160 --> 01:21:52,320
Speaker 2: any vo D platform. Yeah, one of them is called

1202
01:21:52,800 --> 01:21:57,040
Speaker 2: My most recent film is called The Unraveling. I Am

1203
01:21:59,080 --> 01:22:02,080
Speaker 2: have a movie coming out out in January on Lifetime,

1204
01:22:02,160 --> 01:22:06,400
Speaker 2: so it's not one of my movies, but I'm the

1205
01:22:06,400 --> 01:22:12,880
Speaker 2: the Final Girl. And what's that one called?

1206
01:22:12,880 --> 01:22:14,960
Speaker 1: Because by the time this comes out, it'll have been out?

1207
01:22:14,960 --> 01:22:15,880
Speaker 1: So what does that work called?

1208
01:22:16,040 --> 01:22:18,080
Speaker 2: Me? Is that I don't know if they have a

1209
01:22:18,120 --> 01:22:21,799
Speaker 2: set title yet. They have they have a working title,

1210
01:22:21,880 --> 01:22:25,960
Speaker 2: but they they can change them, even like right before

1211
01:22:25,960 --> 01:22:30,559
Speaker 2: it comes out, So that's a to be determined. But yeah,

1212
01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:33,880
Speaker 2: I just don't want to misspeak on that. But yeah,

1213
01:22:34,040 --> 01:22:37,240
Speaker 2: I would say Instagram is probably the easiest like landing

1214
01:22:37,280 --> 01:22:39,400
Speaker 2: page to just kind of find all of the things

1215
01:22:39,400 --> 01:22:45,200
Speaker 2: that I'm working on at Sarazinnati. Yeah, thank you so much, John.

1216
01:22:45,320 --> 01:22:49,240
Speaker 2: This has truly been a pleasure and it's been wonderful

1217
01:22:49,280 --> 01:22:53,160
Speaker 2: getting to know you today. And thank you for creating

1218
01:22:53,240 --> 01:22:56,880
Speaker 2: such a safe space. It was really really just easy

1219
01:22:57,080 --> 01:22:59,920
Speaker 2: to be in your presence. So thank you for witnessing me.

1220
01:23:01,400 --> 01:23:05,439
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. And the Lord is you know, just

1221
01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:08,240
Speaker 1: I just love that he brings people together. And so

1222
01:23:08,240 --> 01:23:10,360
Speaker 1: what I was gonna say earlier is please please please

1223
01:23:10,439 --> 01:23:13,040
Speaker 1: go listen to Soberen. You'll have it on repeat like

1224
01:23:13,080 --> 01:23:17,960
Speaker 1: I like I do, and it is just let yourself

1225
01:23:18,000 --> 01:23:21,479
Speaker 1: feel it. Oh, let yourself feel it. Sarah, thank you

1226
01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:22,559
Speaker 1: so much for joining us.

1227
01:23:22,840 --> 01:23:24,040
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thanks Sean.

1228
01:23:26,560 --> 01:23:30,400
Speaker 1: So maybe you're like Sarah, you are listening to this,

1229
01:23:31,160 --> 01:23:37,240
Speaker 1: and this is the way that maybe perhaps the Holy

1230
01:23:37,280 --> 01:23:42,160
Speaker 1: Spirit is saying, you have two paths that you can take,

1231
01:23:43,280 --> 01:23:48,280
Speaker 1: and those two paths will lead to just two really

1232
01:23:48,360 --> 01:23:53,320
Speaker 1: different trajectories in your life. And maybe that's with drinking,

1233
01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:56,080
Speaker 1: you know, that might be the obvious one, but it

1234
01:23:56,160 --> 01:24:02,719
Speaker 1: also might be with your job, with food, with your phone, whatever,

1235
01:24:04,000 --> 01:24:08,320
Speaker 1: And I just I want you to consider both, or

1236
01:24:08,479 --> 01:24:13,800
Speaker 1: like do the mental math, do the like play it

1237
01:24:13,840 --> 01:24:17,680
Speaker 1: out in your head. I think in some senses that's

1238
01:24:18,000 --> 01:24:23,040
Speaker 1: what I did on that moment in Miami, and not

1239
01:24:23,160 --> 01:24:26,000
Speaker 1: like really consciously or I'm not saying like I did it,

1240
01:24:26,120 --> 01:24:29,360
Speaker 1: you know. It was more so in the moment of

1241
01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:33,000
Speaker 1: like I'm sitting there staring up, waiting in my own feces,

1242
01:24:33,439 --> 01:24:36,000
Speaker 1: asking what is my life become? And I'm kind of like,

1243
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:41,639
Speaker 1: if I keep going, it's this and so much more,

1244
01:24:43,439 --> 01:24:49,080
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking I don't, I can't really imagine it

1245
01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:55,000
Speaker 1: getting much worse, and maybe the things that I can

1246
01:24:55,080 --> 01:24:57,840
Speaker 1: imagine being worse are like not things that I want.

1247
01:25:00,200 --> 01:25:03,719
Speaker 1: So I don't I don't know what is happening inside

1248
01:25:03,720 --> 01:25:06,880
Speaker 1: of you as a result of what Sarah has said.

1249
01:25:07,560 --> 01:25:09,760
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed the interview like I did, but

1250
01:25:09,800 --> 01:25:14,160
Speaker 1: I just I hope it is, as her song says, sobering.

1251
01:25:14,880 --> 01:25:18,680
Speaker 1: I hope that this is sobering for you, that you

1252
01:25:20,040 --> 01:25:23,800
Speaker 1: hear what's what life was like for her in the

1253
01:25:23,840 --> 01:25:26,400
Speaker 1: depths of her addiction. You've heard what life has been

1254
01:25:27,320 --> 01:25:29,280
Speaker 1: was like for me in the depths of my addiction,

1255
01:25:29,400 --> 01:25:34,160
Speaker 1: And I just hope that it that it that it

1256
01:25:34,160 --> 01:25:38,040
Speaker 1: it wakes you up, It wakes you up, so in

1257
01:25:38,080 --> 01:25:41,919
Speaker 1: every sense the word, I think that this this episode

1258
01:25:41,960 --> 01:25:44,920
Speaker 1: has been sobering. If you like this episode, here's what

1259
01:25:44,960 --> 01:25:46,720
Speaker 1: I want you to do. I just asked you to

1260
01:25:46,720 --> 01:25:48,880
Speaker 1: share it with one person. Like that's going to be

1261
01:25:48,920 --> 01:25:51,559
Speaker 1: my new ask. You know that if you like, you

1262
01:25:51,640 --> 01:25:53,680
Speaker 1: know that I'd love for you to rate, like, subscribe,

1263
01:25:53,720 --> 01:25:56,840
Speaker 1: you know, all the things. But I really I've been

1264
01:25:56,880 --> 01:25:58,680
Speaker 1: I've been using this last few weeks, but I just

1265
01:25:58,720 --> 01:26:01,960
Speaker 1: want you to share it with one person, one person

1266
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:06,280
Speaker 1: that could benefit from just one thing in this interview

1267
01:26:06,320 --> 01:26:09,559
Speaker 1: and in this episode, I know you know someone, I

1268
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:14,600
Speaker 1: know someone, right, just share it with one person, not

1269
01:26:14,680 --> 01:26:18,960
Speaker 1: because it grows the show, as they say in radio talk,

1270
01:26:20,320 --> 01:26:22,679
Speaker 1: But really I've been praying a lot about this book

1271
01:26:22,720 --> 01:26:25,439
Speaker 1: coming out. I've been falling asleep praying. And that's not

1272
01:26:25,479 --> 01:26:27,880
Speaker 1: to show you how like spiritual I am. It's to

1273
01:26:27,920 --> 01:26:34,320
Speaker 1: show you how desperate I am that this book coming out,

1274
01:26:34,360 --> 01:26:40,040
Speaker 1: this podcast, everything that I'm doing would point people to Jesus,

1275
01:26:40,120 --> 01:26:42,400
Speaker 1: that it would be something that is not about me

1276
01:26:42,840 --> 01:26:47,280
Speaker 1: but is helpful and that I don't know if there's

1277
01:26:47,320 --> 01:26:50,280
Speaker 1: ten steps that it takes for someone to realize that,

1278
01:26:50,960 --> 01:26:53,160
Speaker 1: like they need to get serious about Jesus. I don't

1279
01:26:53,200 --> 01:26:55,400
Speaker 1: know if this podcast or this book is going to

1280
01:26:55,400 --> 01:26:57,120
Speaker 1: be step two or if it's going to be step ten,

1281
01:26:57,160 --> 01:26:59,640
Speaker 1: But I just pray it's a step. And I've kind

1282
01:26:59,640 --> 01:27:02,280
Speaker 1: of said that before, but I think if you send

1283
01:27:02,280 --> 01:27:04,679
Speaker 1: this to one person, it's going to be a step

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01:27:05,160 --> 01:27:07,000
Speaker 1: for them. I don't know which one, but it's going

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01:27:07,080 --> 01:27:10,320
Speaker 1: to be a step. As always, visit lifeaudio dot com

1286
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Speaker 1: lifeaudio dot com to listen to other great podcasts from

1287
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Speaker 1: our partner, Life Audio They've been amazing in helping me

1288
01:27:19,160 --> 01:27:21,080
Speaker 1: get this podcast off the ground, and I appreciate. We

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01:27:21,120 --> 01:27:26,879
Speaker 1: have crossed over fifty thousand downloads. That's insane, fifty thousand

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01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:29,519
Speaker 1: downloads and I do not take that lightly. But it's

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01:27:29,520 --> 01:27:32,519
Speaker 1: not about me. It's a testament to Jesus. And then

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01:27:32,600 --> 01:27:34,640
Speaker 1: visit Christian alcoholic dot com you can pre order the

1293
01:27:34,640 --> 01:27:37,440
Speaker 1: book Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic. It is still available

1294
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Speaker 1: for forty percent off through the publisher and there's a

1295
01:27:39,600 --> 01:27:42,120
Speaker 1: link on there, but it will not be once the

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01:27:42,120 --> 01:27:44,599
Speaker 1: book comes out, so take advantage of that right now.

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Speaker 1: Love you all and we'll see you here next week.