1 00:00:20,186 --> 00:00:20,746 Speaker 1: Hi, friend. 2 00:00:20,846 --> 00:00:22,246 Speaker 2: I'm so glad you're here today. 3 00:00:22,606 --> 00:00:25,506 Speaker 3: Let's learn how to raise our kids to love God, 4 00:00:25,886 --> 00:00:30,276 Speaker 3: respect authority, and do what's right. Let's scroll less and 5 00:00:30,406 --> 00:00:34,396 Speaker 3: live more. I'm Arlene Pelican, and this is The Happy Home. 6 00:00:37,986 --> 00:00:38,605 Speaker 2: She's back. 7 00:00:38,966 --> 00:00:42,185 Speaker 3: Sissy Goff, who has been on the podcast many times 8 00:00:42,586 --> 00:00:44,025 Speaker 3: at my Parents Rising Conference. 9 00:00:44,106 --> 00:00:45,446 Speaker 2: You know her. You love her. 10 00:00:45,866 --> 00:00:49,216 Speaker 3: She's the New York Times bestselling author. She and David 11 00:00:49,236 --> 00:00:52,016 Speaker 3: Thomas have been on many times. She has spent more 12 00:00:52,036 --> 00:00:56,096 Speaker 3: than 30 years of her life counseling kids, helping adults, 13 00:00:56,176 --> 00:00:58,436 Speaker 3: helping us through anxiety, all these things. 14 00:00:58,556 --> 00:01:00,476 Speaker 2: And if you have little ears. 15 00:01:00,376 --> 00:01:03,726 Speaker 3: Listening with you, you may want to pause and And 16 00:01:03,766 --> 00:01:06,056 Speaker 3: listen to this a different time because we are going 17 00:01:06,075 --> 00:01:09,496 Speaker 3: to be talking about grief and loss and how to 18 00:01:09,896 --> 00:01:13,876 Speaker 3: process through that. So just know that's coming. Sissy's new 19 00:01:13,916 --> 00:01:18,186 Speaker 3: book is Helping Kids Through Grief, a parent's guide for 20 00:01:18,226 --> 00:01:22,346 Speaker 3: making sense of death, processing loss, and finding hope. 21 00:01:22,796 --> 00:01:24,075 Speaker 2: Sissy, great to have you back. 22 00:01:24,476 --> 00:01:27,666 Speaker 1: Oh, Arlene, I love getting to be with you in person, virtually, 23 00:01:27,776 --> 00:01:30,866 Speaker 1: in any capacity I can. I'm just so grateful for 24 00:01:30,926 --> 00:01:33,026 Speaker 1: all you're doing in the world. And I saw so 25 00:01:33,066 --> 00:01:33,586 Speaker 1: many people. 26 00:01:33,666 --> 00:01:36,185 Speaker 3: I'm wearing earrings that you gave me from your sister's 27 00:01:36,226 --> 00:01:38,425 Speaker 3: shop in Nashville the last time I saw you. 28 00:01:38,465 --> 00:01:39,446 Speaker 2: So that's so fun. 29 00:01:40,045 --> 00:01:43,446 Speaker 3: So we are talking about a sober subject, right? About 30 00:01:43,636 --> 00:01:48,206 Speaker 3: how do you process loss? So whether it's huge loss, 31 00:01:48,266 --> 00:01:51,546 Speaker 3: like the death of a parent, which you, Sissy, have experienced, 32 00:01:52,286 --> 00:01:55,586 Speaker 3: the loss of divorce, the nuclear family, which you also, Sissy, 33 00:01:55,646 --> 00:01:59,826 Speaker 3: have experienced, things with your pets. Our claim to fame 34 00:01:59,866 --> 00:02:02,226 Speaker 3: is I have kids named Noelle and Lucy, and you 35 00:02:02,266 --> 00:02:04,166 Speaker 3: had dogs named Noelle and Lucy. 36 00:02:04,566 --> 00:02:07,446 Speaker 1: I don't think you need a new child named Patches. 37 00:02:07,466 --> 00:02:09,556 Speaker 1: I don't think that would work in any way. 38 00:02:09,806 --> 00:02:14,076 Speaker 2: It's like a grandchild, Patches. I don't think so. 39 00:02:15,116 --> 00:02:17,376 Speaker 3: So you've grieved the loss of pets. And so many 40 00:02:17,416 --> 00:02:20,016 Speaker 3: of our listeners, you have kids right now who are 41 00:02:20,056 --> 00:02:23,776 Speaker 3: grieving these kinds of losses. Talk a little bit about 42 00:02:24,416 --> 00:02:27,196 Speaker 3: at this season in your life, what has it meant 43 00:02:27,226 --> 00:02:31,226 Speaker 3: to you to write this book? Oh, I love that 44 00:02:31,246 --> 00:02:36,785 Speaker 3: you asked that question, Arlene. And it was a hard 45 00:02:37,006 --> 00:02:39,986 Speaker 3: and healing book to write in so many ways. And 46 00:02:40,386 --> 00:02:42,316 Speaker 3: one of the things that I learned in the research 47 00:02:42,376 --> 00:02:46,096 Speaker 3: that I didn't realize, because I As a therapist, of course, 48 00:02:46,196 --> 00:02:49,136 Speaker 3: in grad school, I studied the five stages of grief, 49 00:02:49,236 --> 00:02:52,376 Speaker 3: which I don't even think they're stages like a stair step. 50 00:02:52,395 --> 00:02:55,046 Speaker 1: They're more experiences we kind of come in and out of. 51 00:02:56,145 --> 00:03:00,306 Speaker 1: And what I learned in my research is there is 52 00:03:00,386 --> 00:03:03,525 Speaker 1: a man who worked a lot with Elizabeth Kubler-Ross who 53 00:03:03,566 --> 00:03:06,525 Speaker 1: wrote those initial stages. And he came up with a 54 00:03:06,666 --> 00:03:11,206 Speaker 1: sixth stage of grief that is meaning or purpose. 55 00:03:11,266 --> 00:03:11,706 Speaker 3: And I think. 56 00:03:15,006 --> 00:03:20,096 Speaker 1: Through every tragedy I've experienced, that has been so healing 57 00:03:20,136 --> 00:03:22,376 Speaker 1: for me, is having a sense of meaning and purpose. 58 00:03:22,456 --> 00:03:25,736 Speaker 1: And I think even writing this book did that very 59 00:03:25,796 --> 00:03:29,036 Speaker 1: thing for me, getting to put words to what I've 60 00:03:29,076 --> 00:03:33,786 Speaker 1: watched kids walk through for over 30 years and help parents, 61 00:03:33,826 --> 00:03:38,106 Speaker 1: I think, navigate what feels impossible to navigate when it's 62 00:03:38,126 --> 00:03:38,866 Speaker 1: hit your family. 63 00:03:39,556 --> 00:03:42,366 Speaker 3: We're going to talk specifically about like kind of scripts 64 00:03:42,426 --> 00:03:45,206 Speaker 3: and conversations, things to say, not say to kids. 65 00:03:45,266 --> 00:03:47,586 Speaker 2: But let's start with, you know, you. 66 00:03:47,486 --> 00:03:50,386 Speaker 3: Talk about the book that it's not a timeline. You know, 67 00:03:50,406 --> 00:03:53,126 Speaker 3: we're so in timelines like, okay, let's take 40 days 68 00:03:53,166 --> 00:03:55,236 Speaker 3: to do this and 10 days to do this. 69 00:03:55,296 --> 00:03:57,456 Speaker 2: And then by year two, we should be here. And 70 00:03:57,616 --> 00:03:58,916 Speaker 2: so you say it's not a timeline. 71 00:03:59,076 --> 00:04:02,136 Speaker 3: It's these stages. Can you explain that a bit more? 72 00:04:03,056 --> 00:04:03,436 Speaker 2: Yes. 73 00:04:03,716 --> 00:04:08,196 Speaker 1: And any of us who have grieved anything, experience it. 74 00:04:08,276 --> 00:04:15,016 Speaker 1: Five stages traditionally are denial, anger, bargaining, depression, or sadness, 75 00:04:15,136 --> 00:04:17,916 Speaker 1: and then acceptance. And, and like we were saying before, 76 00:04:18,066 --> 00:04:21,026 Speaker 1: it's not this staircase that you get to acceptance and, 77 00:04:21,566 --> 00:04:24,066 Speaker 1: you know, you're, you've worked through your grief. It is 78 00:04:24,146 --> 00:04:28,226 Speaker 1: something we circle in and out of and experience in 79 00:04:28,286 --> 00:04:31,746 Speaker 1: some stages last longer and some move quicker. And then, 80 00:04:32,226 --> 00:04:34,866 Speaker 1: and especially with kids, which we can talk about, we 81 00:04:35,026 --> 00:04:39,346 Speaker 1: often circle back through again. And then obviously meaning plays 82 00:04:39,426 --> 00:04:41,616 Speaker 1: a part in the midst of that too. But I 83 00:04:41,656 --> 00:04:44,815 Speaker 1: think what I love about those stages, and it was 84 00:04:44,876 --> 00:04:49,256 Speaker 1: fascinating when my mom died, there aren't a lot of 85 00:04:49,315 --> 00:04:52,856 Speaker 1: great books written from a biblical perspective about grief. And 86 00:04:53,026 --> 00:04:56,385 Speaker 1: someone sent me these little pamphlets that were written by 87 00:04:56,986 --> 00:05:01,645 Speaker 1: maybe the man who started Stephen's ministry. Hmm. And they 88 00:05:01,666 --> 00:05:06,056 Speaker 1: were so easy to read and so, um, helpful and 89 00:05:06,136 --> 00:05:09,876 Speaker 1: hopeful for me just to basically say what you're experiencing 90 00:05:09,956 --> 00:05:13,056 Speaker 1: is normal. And I think that's, that's my hope in 91 00:05:13,116 --> 00:05:16,776 Speaker 1: talking through these stages again, is to remind folks that 92 00:05:17,016 --> 00:05:21,226 Speaker 1: what you're experiencing, wherever it is emotionally is really normal. 93 00:05:21,286 --> 00:05:24,026 Speaker 1: And it doesn't mean something's wrong. How old were you 94 00:05:24,046 --> 00:05:25,445 Speaker 1: when your mom passed away. 95 00:05:25,246 --> 00:05:26,726 Speaker 2: And she died? 96 00:05:26,746 --> 00:05:30,826 Speaker 1: I was 49. 49. 97 00:05:30,826 --> 00:05:36,626 Speaker 3: 49. Yes. It's like missing your mom. Yeah. Is there 98 00:05:36,666 --> 00:05:39,705 Speaker 3: a most challenging stage for kids? Is there something where 99 00:05:39,746 --> 00:05:41,385 Speaker 3: it's like, oh, we didn't see that coming? 100 00:05:41,445 --> 00:05:45,306 Speaker 2: Or, oh, we can tell you, parent, that you're going 101 00:05:45,326 --> 00:05:46,806 Speaker 2: to hit this. This is coming. 102 00:05:47,226 --> 00:05:51,006 Speaker 1: That's such a good question, too. I would say for 103 00:05:51,106 --> 00:05:54,746 Speaker 1: parents watching kids, I think sometimes anger can be the 104 00:05:54,786 --> 00:05:59,136 Speaker 1: hardest to watch because... It's directed at you and potentially 105 00:05:59,156 --> 00:06:01,406 Speaker 1: at a time where you're grieving right alongside them. So 106 00:06:01,926 --> 00:06:05,166 Speaker 1: it just can feel like it's pummeling you, I think, 107 00:06:05,226 --> 00:06:08,786 Speaker 1: in that season. And instead to remember it's normal and 108 00:06:08,866 --> 00:06:11,726 Speaker 1: even to put some boundaries around all feelings are okay. 109 00:06:12,186 --> 00:06:13,205 Speaker 1: All behaviors aren't. 110 00:06:13,866 --> 00:06:14,246 Speaker 3: I like that. 111 00:06:14,926 --> 00:06:15,746 Speaker 1: Really important. 112 00:06:16,046 --> 00:06:18,606 Speaker 2: All feelings are okay. All behaviors are not. Put that 113 00:06:18,666 --> 00:06:19,216 Speaker 2: on your fridge. 114 00:06:21,136 --> 00:06:24,015 Speaker 1: But I think for kids themselves, I have had so 115 00:06:24,096 --> 00:06:26,436 Speaker 1: many kids who are grieving over the years say to me, 116 00:06:27,476 --> 00:06:29,436 Speaker 1: I don't even want to let myself start to cry 117 00:06:29,476 --> 00:06:32,796 Speaker 1: because I'm afraid I'll never stop. And so I think 118 00:06:32,916 --> 00:06:35,856 Speaker 1: that part of it, the depression, the heavy sadness can 119 00:06:35,876 --> 00:06:37,956 Speaker 1: feel really scary for them, just that it's going to 120 00:06:37,996 --> 00:06:40,356 Speaker 1: take them over. It feels like that for us too, 121 00:06:40,376 --> 00:06:42,876 Speaker 1: but I think we inherently know there are stages and 122 00:06:42,956 --> 00:06:45,646 Speaker 1: know that we'll work through it in time, but they 123 00:06:45,676 --> 00:06:46,406 Speaker 1: don't know that. 124 00:06:47,736 --> 00:06:49,885 Speaker 3: What's a helpful thing then for a parent to say 125 00:06:50,106 --> 00:06:53,366 Speaker 3: that doesn't sound like a platitude, but you're basically trying 126 00:06:53,386 --> 00:06:55,766 Speaker 3: to say, like this is going to get better. So 127 00:06:56,306 --> 00:06:59,286 Speaker 3: let's say this kid is overwhelmed. There's, there's no out 128 00:06:59,326 --> 00:07:00,906 Speaker 3: of this. What might a parent say? 129 00:07:02,005 --> 00:07:04,546 Speaker 1: Well, I want us to always start with empathy, whatever 130 00:07:04,666 --> 00:07:07,556 Speaker 1: stage they're in, whatever they're feeling. Of course it feels 131 00:07:07,616 --> 00:07:09,656 Speaker 1: this heavy. And of course you're this sad and it 132 00:07:09,676 --> 00:07:12,316 Speaker 1: makes so much sense. And I felt that way too, 133 00:07:12,396 --> 00:07:17,156 Speaker 1: or I feel that way too now and pause for 134 00:07:17,176 --> 00:07:20,006 Speaker 1: a beat. And then to say something like, it won't 135 00:07:20,146 --> 00:07:21,126 Speaker 1: always feel like this. 136 00:07:21,146 --> 00:07:21,546 Speaker 3: Hmm. 137 00:07:22,536 --> 00:07:25,866 Speaker 1: Just that simple, I think, can help them take a 138 00:07:25,906 --> 00:07:28,486 Speaker 1: breath and experience it differently. 139 00:07:29,786 --> 00:07:33,646 Speaker 3: My problem is I love to fix things. And I 140 00:07:33,686 --> 00:07:36,126 Speaker 3: thought that I wasn't this way. I thought I was 141 00:07:36,166 --> 00:07:39,076 Speaker 3: a really good listener. I'd say in the last two or. 142 00:07:39,046 --> 00:07:41,916 Speaker 2: Three years, I've realized, oh, yeah, I totally want to 143 00:07:41,956 --> 00:07:43,276 Speaker 2: just dive in there and fix things. 144 00:07:43,296 --> 00:07:45,596 Speaker 3: I've talked to us parents who want to do that 145 00:07:45,916 --> 00:07:49,366 Speaker 3: and said, we need to just button up. Listen and 146 00:07:49,426 --> 00:07:51,946 Speaker 3: let your child grieve that loss of a pet, loss 147 00:07:52,006 --> 00:07:54,626 Speaker 3: of being on the team, loss of a best friend 148 00:07:54,666 --> 00:07:56,766 Speaker 3: who now doesn't want to be your friend anymore. 149 00:07:56,846 --> 00:07:58,016 Speaker 2: How do we button it up? 150 00:07:58,886 --> 00:08:01,866 Speaker 1: Oh, it's so hard with the kids that we love. 151 00:08:01,946 --> 00:08:04,096 Speaker 1: And of course you feel that way, Arlene, because you're 152 00:08:04,536 --> 00:08:07,016 Speaker 1: kind and thoughtful and you love your children so much. 153 00:08:07,076 --> 00:08:11,116 Speaker 1: And this is a very silly example, but I was 154 00:08:11,156 --> 00:08:14,076 Speaker 1: just showing you before we hopped on the call that 155 00:08:14,356 --> 00:08:17,936 Speaker 1: my dog's in a cone currently. She had knee surgery. And- 156 00:08:18,736 --> 00:08:24,196 Speaker 1: I mean, she spent 12 hours in the cone of 157 00:08:24,196 --> 00:08:26,836 Speaker 1: 10 days and I had her in a donut instead. 158 00:08:27,016 --> 00:08:29,926 Speaker 1: And I sent a picture to the doctor to ask 159 00:08:29,986 --> 00:08:34,946 Speaker 1: him an unrelated question. And, and he said, Sissy, is 160 00:08:34,966 --> 00:08:35,626 Speaker 1: she in her cone? 161 00:08:37,006 --> 00:08:38,726 Speaker 2: I said, no, sir. 162 00:08:40,646 --> 00:08:42,386 Speaker 1: And he said, I can tell she's been licking it. 163 00:08:43,926 --> 00:08:47,165 Speaker 1: I didn't want to put her, I mean, she's my dog. 164 00:08:47,406 --> 00:08:49,886 Speaker 1: And I can see, I put it on and she 165 00:08:49,926 --> 00:08:52,266 Speaker 1: just puts her head down and lays down because she's miserable. 166 00:08:52,306 --> 00:08:55,506 Speaker 1: And it, it makes my heart hurt. And again, she's 167 00:08:55,546 --> 00:08:57,826 Speaker 1: a dog. So of course you feel that way as 168 00:08:57,886 --> 00:09:02,266 Speaker 1: a parent. And what he said to me is you're 169 00:09:02,706 --> 00:09:06,386 Speaker 1: prolonging her healing and you're making it worse. And I 170 00:09:06,466 --> 00:09:10,266 Speaker 1: think what I would want every parent to hear me 171 00:09:10,366 --> 00:09:16,086 Speaker 1: say is I cannot count the probably not hundreds, but 172 00:09:16,186 --> 00:09:19,226 Speaker 1: thousands of kids in 30 years that I've walked through grief. 173 00:09:19,916 --> 00:09:23,796 Speaker 1: And every single time it's excruciating for a parent to watch. 174 00:09:25,356 --> 00:09:30,496 Speaker 1: And the empathy that those kids develop in the midst 175 00:09:30,556 --> 00:09:34,636 Speaker 1: of it, the resilience, those kids grow the way they 176 00:09:34,696 --> 00:09:39,246 Speaker 1: know Jesus in ways that they likely wouldn't have otherwise. 177 00:09:39,266 --> 00:09:39,786 Speaker 2: That's right. 178 00:09:40,726 --> 00:09:43,346 Speaker 1: We don't want to short circuit any of that for them. 179 00:09:43,366 --> 00:09:49,796 Speaker 1: And I think that's long term. Short term, when we 180 00:09:49,916 --> 00:09:52,906 Speaker 1: step in and try to fix, I think kids often 181 00:09:52,946 --> 00:09:55,826 Speaker 1: feel minimized in the midst of it. And so it 182 00:09:55,986 --> 00:09:59,746 Speaker 1: doesn't help our relationship. What helps our relationship is for 183 00:09:59,886 --> 00:10:02,246 Speaker 1: us to be present and have a whole lot of 184 00:10:02,306 --> 00:10:02,966 Speaker 1: empathy with them. 185 00:10:03,776 --> 00:10:06,636 Speaker 2: Kids and adults grieve very differently. I remember in the 186 00:10:06,676 --> 00:10:07,496 Speaker 2: book you write. 187 00:10:07,356 --> 00:10:12,046 Speaker 3: About when your nephew Henry visited you after your dog. 188 00:10:11,786 --> 00:10:13,486 Speaker 2: Lucy had died. Tell us about that. 189 00:10:13,846 --> 00:10:15,966 Speaker 1: Yes, it was the first time he had been to 190 00:10:16,006 --> 00:10:19,716 Speaker 1: my house. He was four at the time. after I 191 00:10:20,076 --> 00:10:23,496 Speaker 1: lost Lucy and he walked in. And of course her 192 00:10:23,536 --> 00:10:27,716 Speaker 1: presence wasn't there. And I mean, it was like projectile tears, 193 00:10:27,736 --> 00:10:30,416 Speaker 1: like a cartoon character. He just started sobbing and said, 194 00:10:30,536 --> 00:10:34,346 Speaker 1: I miss Lucy and said, Oh, Henry, I do too. 195 00:10:34,426 --> 00:10:37,626 Speaker 1: And I immediately teared up. And then he stopped for 196 00:10:37,646 --> 00:10:40,716 Speaker 1: a second and he said, Did he can have a snack? 197 00:10:41,426 --> 00:10:44,786 Speaker 1: He just moved right on. And then was sad about 198 00:10:44,806 --> 00:10:47,466 Speaker 1: her again later. And that's one of the things that 199 00:10:47,506 --> 00:10:50,546 Speaker 1: we talk about is that kids, it's almost like when 200 00:10:50,586 --> 00:10:53,866 Speaker 1: they're learning to swim, they can't stay underwater as long 201 00:10:53,886 --> 00:10:56,806 Speaker 1: because their lungs haven't developed to the same capacity ours have. 202 00:10:57,386 --> 00:11:00,266 Speaker 1: They grieve in doses. And so they move out in 203 00:11:00,346 --> 00:11:02,266 Speaker 1: it and then they move out of it and want 204 00:11:02,286 --> 00:11:04,686 Speaker 1: to play. And that is so normal and a really 205 00:11:04,726 --> 00:11:06,006 Speaker 1: important thing for us to remember. 206 00:11:06,616 --> 00:11:06,816 Speaker 3: Yeah. 207 00:11:06,856 --> 00:11:07,516 Speaker 2: So it's interesting. 208 00:11:07,556 --> 00:11:09,716 Speaker 3: It seems like, so then when they're in that grieving, 209 00:11:09,916 --> 00:11:13,766 Speaker 3: the cartoon tears part, you're there for the cartoon tears. 210 00:11:13,956 --> 00:11:16,266 Speaker 3: And then when it's like, it's time to play, you 211 00:11:16,306 --> 00:11:18,226 Speaker 3: don't say they're like, wait, we shouldn't play. 212 00:11:18,266 --> 00:11:19,986 Speaker 2: We're grieving Nana right now. 213 00:11:20,026 --> 00:11:20,206 Speaker 1: Right. 214 00:11:20,246 --> 00:11:23,906 Speaker 2: It's like, okay, go play. So you're following. 215 00:11:23,386 --> 00:11:26,256 Speaker 3: Their lead of how they are grieving and trying to 216 00:11:26,296 --> 00:11:26,916 Speaker 3: support them. 217 00:11:27,196 --> 00:11:28,236 Speaker 1: That's exactly right. 218 00:11:28,886 --> 00:11:31,466 Speaker 3: What if your child, you know, they ask, so let's, 219 00:11:31,506 --> 00:11:33,466 Speaker 3: we'll go for a very hard question here. A child 220 00:11:33,586 --> 00:11:34,866 Speaker 3: asks for a loved. 221 00:11:34,766 --> 00:11:36,746 Speaker 2: One who has died. When is my loved one? When 222 00:11:36,786 --> 00:11:41,366 Speaker 2: is Papa coming back? When is mama coming back? How 223 00:11:41,406 --> 00:11:42,286 Speaker 2: might you respond? 224 00:11:43,406 --> 00:11:46,066 Speaker 1: Well, that it's such a good thing to think about 225 00:11:46,166 --> 00:11:50,966 Speaker 1: because denial, which is the first stage is more confusing 226 00:11:51,026 --> 00:11:54,326 Speaker 1: for kids because often they don't understand the permanence of death. 227 00:11:54,406 --> 00:11:58,886 Speaker 1: And there's this magical thinking that happens sometimes too. And 228 00:11:58,986 --> 00:12:02,946 Speaker 1: so with them, I love a lot of the research 229 00:12:03,286 --> 00:12:07,366 Speaker 1: talks about how denial is a protective insulating factor for 230 00:12:07,406 --> 00:12:10,036 Speaker 1: kids until they can absorb the weight of the loss. 231 00:12:11,076 --> 00:12:13,156 Speaker 1: And at the same time, it's so important for us 232 00:12:13,196 --> 00:12:16,536 Speaker 1: to tell them the truth. And so in that moment, 233 00:12:16,636 --> 00:12:21,156 Speaker 1: I would say, honey, I forgot. Did you say Papa? 234 00:12:21,856 --> 00:12:23,566 Speaker 2: Let's say let's go, Papa. Yes, Papa. 235 00:12:24,046 --> 00:12:26,646 Speaker 1: I would say, honey, Papa is not coming back. He's 236 00:12:26,686 --> 00:12:29,676 Speaker 1: in heaven with Jesus. And then they may ask you 237 00:12:29,736 --> 00:12:34,266 Speaker 1: again three hours later or two days later. And that's okay, too. Again, 238 00:12:34,366 --> 00:12:37,606 Speaker 1: it's that denial. But we need to be with kids 239 00:12:38,126 --> 00:12:41,586 Speaker 1: concrete and very direct with them. We don't want to say, 240 00:12:41,986 --> 00:12:45,206 Speaker 1: Papa passed. They don't understand even what that means. We 241 00:12:45,246 --> 00:12:47,706 Speaker 1: need to speak in their language and be very concrete 242 00:12:47,766 --> 00:12:49,426 Speaker 1: in their helping them understand. 243 00:12:49,836 --> 00:12:50,836 Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. 244 00:12:51,236 --> 00:12:54,796 Speaker 3: How do boys and girls grieve differently? So you might 245 00:12:54,816 --> 00:12:57,706 Speaker 3: have the same home and brother and sister are grieving 246 00:12:57,746 --> 00:12:58,726 Speaker 3: in totally different ways. 247 00:12:58,746 --> 00:13:00,586 Speaker 2: What's there to know about that? 248 00:13:01,246 --> 00:13:03,206 Speaker 1: Well, you and David and I have all talked so 249 00:13:03,266 --> 00:13:05,946 Speaker 1: much about kids and what we've seen over the years. 250 00:13:06,276 --> 00:13:10,456 Speaker 1: And David will talk about how boys often go outward 251 00:13:10,556 --> 00:13:14,166 Speaker 1: and get bigger with emotions and girls we know go inward. 252 00:13:14,666 --> 00:13:18,026 Speaker 1: And so I think often we could see more anger, 253 00:13:18,146 --> 00:13:22,466 Speaker 1: more explosiveness with boys and a desire to numb, to 254 00:13:22,526 --> 00:13:26,426 Speaker 1: numb out on screens, to numb out in risk-taking behavior, 255 00:13:26,526 --> 00:13:30,776 Speaker 1: destructive choices. I think they don't want to process the 256 00:13:30,836 --> 00:13:34,556 Speaker 1: emotions and often the more vulnerable emotions are going to 257 00:13:34,576 --> 00:13:37,506 Speaker 1: be harder for them. So sadness, some of those things. 258 00:13:38,066 --> 00:13:41,696 Speaker 1: For girls, I feel like girls can easily go inward. 259 00:13:41,896 --> 00:13:44,236 Speaker 1: And we have talked before about the rates of girls 260 00:13:44,276 --> 00:13:46,676 Speaker 1: and anxiety and how they lead the statistics. And so 261 00:13:47,276 --> 00:13:50,836 Speaker 1: even grief, I think, can show up in girls as anxiety. 262 00:13:51,636 --> 00:13:55,946 Speaker 1: And also girls are so intuitive. They're so aware of us. 263 00:13:56,546 --> 00:13:59,786 Speaker 1: And so often they will try to shut down their 264 00:13:59,846 --> 00:14:03,036 Speaker 1: emotions if they feel like we're not okay. because they 265 00:14:03,076 --> 00:14:05,976 Speaker 1: want to be there for us rather than talking about themselves. 266 00:14:06,416 --> 00:14:12,256 Speaker 3: Let's talk about two scenarios after a divorce. And let's 267 00:14:12,276 --> 00:14:14,336 Speaker 3: take that one first. So let's say you're in the 268 00:14:14,376 --> 00:14:17,936 Speaker 3: process of splitting up, or maybe that's been recent, or 269 00:14:17,976 --> 00:14:22,476 Speaker 3: maybe it's been five years ago. What kinds of things 270 00:14:22,556 --> 00:14:25,156 Speaker 3: are kids grieving and how might a parent meet them 271 00:14:25,196 --> 00:14:25,876 Speaker 3: in that grief? 272 00:14:27,796 --> 00:14:31,956 Speaker 1: Kids often grieve more around secondary losses than the primary. 273 00:14:32,076 --> 00:14:35,536 Speaker 1: So I have watched kids who will have many more 274 00:14:35,586 --> 00:14:40,796 Speaker 1: tears about losing their family home than the actual divorce. 275 00:14:41,336 --> 00:14:45,456 Speaker 1: And so I think in all things with kids, we 276 00:14:45,496 --> 00:14:48,476 Speaker 1: want to pay attention to when are the bigger emotions coming, 277 00:14:49,236 --> 00:14:51,836 Speaker 1: because that might be part of how that shows up. 278 00:14:52,536 --> 00:14:57,286 Speaker 1: And often I think in a divorce scenario, especially kids, 279 00:14:57,306 --> 00:14:59,726 Speaker 1: I had a girl one time who had her parents 280 00:14:59,746 --> 00:15:02,306 Speaker 1: were divorced. She had a very tenuous relationship with her dad. 281 00:15:03,106 --> 00:15:05,446 Speaker 1: And she said to me, my mom is my rubber 282 00:15:05,466 --> 00:15:08,686 Speaker 1: band parent. And she said, I can push and push 283 00:15:08,746 --> 00:15:12,886 Speaker 1: and push her. And she always comes back. And that 284 00:15:12,966 --> 00:15:15,766 Speaker 1: is something I watch happen a lot with kids that 285 00:15:15,806 --> 00:15:19,556 Speaker 1: they almost will have more anger toward the parent who's 286 00:15:19,616 --> 00:15:22,916 Speaker 1: the most stable parent and the steadiest and most consistent 287 00:15:22,956 --> 00:15:25,936 Speaker 1: parent for them. And so that's something I would really 288 00:15:25,976 --> 00:15:29,616 Speaker 1: pay attention to as well in that scenario. And I 289 00:15:29,656 --> 00:15:33,996 Speaker 1: think they need us to be That very thing, steady 290 00:15:34,056 --> 00:15:36,856 Speaker 1: and consistent with them, a safe place for them. And 291 00:15:38,396 --> 00:15:40,996 Speaker 1: with any kind of loss, they need us to process 292 00:15:41,056 --> 00:15:44,776 Speaker 1: their emotion, our emotions, not with them. It's okay to 293 00:15:44,876 --> 00:15:47,476 Speaker 1: feel in front of them, not to process with them. 294 00:15:47,596 --> 00:15:51,776 Speaker 1: And so to have statements that you say like, mom's 295 00:15:51,836 --> 00:15:55,496 Speaker 1: really sad too. And I want to help you get 296 00:15:55,536 --> 00:15:59,476 Speaker 1: through this. Or I'm really having a hard time too. 297 00:15:59,596 --> 00:16:01,966 Speaker 1: And you know, we're both going to be okay. Even 298 00:16:02,026 --> 00:16:04,486 Speaker 1: if that feels hard right now to say out loud, 299 00:16:04,566 --> 00:16:07,346 Speaker 1: they still need you to say that for them. 300 00:16:07,806 --> 00:16:08,996 Speaker 2: You see the role of faith. 301 00:16:09,196 --> 00:16:12,136 Speaker 3: It's almost the role of faith for the parent saying like, yeah, 302 00:16:12,156 --> 00:16:14,236 Speaker 3: it is going to be okay. I am going to 303 00:16:14,276 --> 00:16:16,216 Speaker 3: believe that God is sovereign and will help us. And 304 00:16:16,276 --> 00:16:18,736 Speaker 3: even though I don't feel it, I will say it 305 00:16:18,776 --> 00:16:21,996 Speaker 3: to child. It's like they're exercising their faith at the 306 00:16:22,016 --> 00:16:22,636 Speaker 3: same time. 307 00:16:23,056 --> 00:16:23,696 Speaker 1: Exactly. 308 00:16:27,616 --> 00:16:32,126 Speaker 3: What about those griefs of, you know, the quote unquote 309 00:16:32,166 --> 00:16:35,666 Speaker 3: smaller ones. I didn't make the team. No one asked 310 00:16:35,706 --> 00:16:39,636 Speaker 3: me to homecoming. You know, my friend group doesn't want 311 00:16:39,656 --> 00:16:41,976 Speaker 3: to sit with me at lunch. You know, how do 312 00:16:42,016 --> 00:16:44,676 Speaker 3: we draw that out of our kids and help them? 313 00:16:46,556 --> 00:16:49,296 Speaker 1: I love that you're even putting those in this category 314 00:16:49,376 --> 00:16:52,396 Speaker 1: because they are. All of those things are grieving and 315 00:16:52,456 --> 00:16:56,056 Speaker 1: it's letting go of something that I'm not It's letting 316 00:16:56,076 --> 00:16:58,916 Speaker 1: go of something I envisioned for my life. And that 317 00:16:58,956 --> 00:17:01,996 Speaker 1: can be big. That can be little. And I think 318 00:17:02,096 --> 00:17:05,056 Speaker 1: sometimes of grief as a sense of relinquishment, that it's 319 00:17:05,136 --> 00:17:09,816 Speaker 1: just this relinquishment that's hard. And so I think when 320 00:17:09,866 --> 00:17:12,506 Speaker 1: we can name that for kids, when we can say, 321 00:17:12,526 --> 00:17:16,466 Speaker 1: I heard this, I was listening to my favorite podcaster 322 00:17:16,786 --> 00:17:20,186 Speaker 1: and she interviewed someone who said grief and loss are 323 00:17:20,225 --> 00:17:24,085 Speaker 1: like a letting go or a relinquishment. And what is 324 00:17:24,126 --> 00:17:26,806 Speaker 1: that like for you? Because it's hard for me every time. 325 00:17:27,745 --> 00:17:29,886 Speaker 1: I'm really sad with you. I mean, they need to 326 00:17:29,965 --> 00:17:33,196 Speaker 1: hear all of those things and that we give them 327 00:17:33,275 --> 00:17:37,056 Speaker 1: time to grieve the loss because there are certain things, 328 00:17:37,296 --> 00:17:40,056 Speaker 1: you know, over the years, one of the things I've 329 00:17:40,455 --> 00:17:42,995 Speaker 1: really watched kids struggle with is when they've had an 330 00:17:43,096 --> 00:17:44,096 Speaker 1: injury in sports. 331 00:17:44,215 --> 00:17:44,575 Speaker 3: Yes. 332 00:17:45,676 --> 00:17:48,756 Speaker 1: And that is a loss of the identity I felt 333 00:17:48,775 --> 00:17:51,536 Speaker 1: like I had, the friends that were in my community 334 00:17:51,616 --> 00:17:55,475 Speaker 1: on that sports team, all these things I envisioned for myself. 335 00:17:55,616 --> 00:17:57,876 Speaker 1: And it takes a lot of tears and a lot 336 00:17:57,926 --> 00:17:59,946 Speaker 1: of talking to walk through that. And so I think 337 00:18:00,025 --> 00:18:06,186 Speaker 1: giving them time and space and having conversations with them where, 338 00:18:06,346 --> 00:18:09,386 Speaker 1: you know, we've talked about this before, but especially with adolescents, 339 00:18:09,985 --> 00:18:12,826 Speaker 1: when they feel like we're being really intense, asking questions, 340 00:18:12,866 --> 00:18:15,446 Speaker 1: I think sometimes they can shrink back. And so When 341 00:18:15,485 --> 00:18:19,756 Speaker 1: we can think about having conversations shoulder to shoulder, walking 342 00:18:19,796 --> 00:18:22,715 Speaker 1: the dog, but we just say, I've been wondering how 343 00:18:22,735 --> 00:18:24,826 Speaker 1: you've been feeling about this lately. We haven't talked about 344 00:18:24,846 --> 00:18:27,406 Speaker 1: it in a few days. I think we need to 345 00:18:27,465 --> 00:18:29,226 Speaker 1: be circling back to them over and over. 346 00:18:29,666 --> 00:18:32,826 Speaker 3: That feels so much better than, you know, you like, okay, 347 00:18:32,846 --> 00:18:36,186 Speaker 3: I'm here to do my inspection. What's going on? And 348 00:18:36,725 --> 00:18:38,906 Speaker 3: are we over this yet? Not meeting the basketball team? 349 00:18:39,166 --> 00:18:39,606 Speaker 1: I hope so. 350 00:18:39,646 --> 00:18:42,426 Speaker 2: Okay. You know, it feels totally different than that. 351 00:18:44,015 --> 00:18:46,955 Speaker 3: How about, you know, where you talk in the book, 352 00:18:46,995 --> 00:18:49,795 Speaker 3: I think this is so beautiful. Sometimes when you have 353 00:18:49,816 --> 00:18:53,656 Speaker 3: this loss, a death, you know, a grandma, a dog, 354 00:18:53,836 --> 00:18:57,696 Speaker 3: a mom, a dad, a favorite teacher, whatever. It's like 355 00:18:57,995 --> 00:19:01,155 Speaker 3: you forget them because it's, and you think as an adult, 356 00:19:01,285 --> 00:19:03,286 Speaker 3: a parent, like, oh yeah, let's not talk about that 357 00:19:03,346 --> 00:19:05,566 Speaker 3: because we don't want to hurt our child or bring 358 00:19:05,586 --> 00:19:08,926 Speaker 3: it up again. But actually there's so much value in 359 00:19:08,985 --> 00:19:12,985 Speaker 3: helping kids remember these loved ones that they've lost to 360 00:19:13,086 --> 00:19:16,745 Speaker 3: keep grandma's memory. What would grandma have said about this situation? 361 00:19:16,765 --> 00:19:20,906 Speaker 3: Talk about the value of in our grief, still very 362 00:19:21,015 --> 00:19:23,285 Speaker 3: much remembering that person that we are missing. Yes. 363 00:19:23,515 --> 00:19:27,056 Speaker 1: Yes. Because we do forget. And it's, I hate that 364 00:19:27,096 --> 00:19:30,386 Speaker 1: we forget. I mean, we always want to remember the 365 00:19:30,426 --> 00:19:33,325 Speaker 1: laugh and the favorite shirt and all of those things. 366 00:19:33,406 --> 00:19:36,866 Speaker 1: And I think when kids are getting older, it's harder 367 00:19:36,906 --> 00:19:39,525 Speaker 1: for them to remember because their brains are still developing. 368 00:19:39,686 --> 00:19:44,036 Speaker 1: And so I think helping them remember can be really important. 369 00:19:44,336 --> 00:19:47,116 Speaker 1: And one of my favorite things to do with kids 370 00:19:47,275 --> 00:19:50,715 Speaker 1: is to create a memory box or a journal about 371 00:19:50,755 --> 00:19:54,066 Speaker 1: that person and I worked with a little girl whose 372 00:19:54,306 --> 00:19:58,875 Speaker 1: mom died and we talked about doing it. She knew 373 00:19:58,936 --> 00:20:00,775 Speaker 1: her mom was going to die. We talked about putting 374 00:20:00,796 --> 00:20:03,886 Speaker 1: it together. And the first day she came in after 375 00:20:03,965 --> 00:20:08,045 Speaker 1: she lost her mom, I said, tell me what you 376 00:20:08,086 --> 00:20:11,136 Speaker 1: think your mom's doing. in heaven right now. She said, 377 00:20:11,495 --> 00:20:12,636 Speaker 1: water skiing with God. 378 00:20:13,166 --> 00:20:14,325 Speaker 3: Oh, that's amazing. 379 00:20:14,386 --> 00:20:16,166 Speaker 1: I know that was her mom's favorite thing to do. 380 00:20:16,205 --> 00:20:18,186 Speaker 1: And so she drew this beautiful picture of her mom 381 00:20:18,225 --> 00:20:20,046 Speaker 1: water skiing. And that was the first thing we put 382 00:20:20,086 --> 00:20:24,535 Speaker 1: in the box. And Because she was so young and 383 00:20:24,656 --> 00:20:27,536 Speaker 1: wouldn't have all these memories of her mom, we had 384 00:20:27,656 --> 00:20:32,316 Speaker 1: her dad write about how he felt when he first 385 00:20:32,376 --> 00:20:34,426 Speaker 1: met her mom and what she was like and what 386 00:20:34,465 --> 00:20:36,926 Speaker 1: made him fall in love with her. We had her parents, 387 00:20:37,025 --> 00:20:39,606 Speaker 1: so this little girl's grandparents, write letters about their favorite 388 00:20:39,626 --> 00:20:44,025 Speaker 1: characteristics and different friends. And it became this box of 389 00:20:44,146 --> 00:20:48,326 Speaker 1: memories that would fill out her memory in a really 390 00:20:48,505 --> 00:20:49,305 Speaker 1: beautiful way. 391 00:20:49,326 --> 00:20:52,046 Speaker 2: That's beautiful. It's so, so beautiful. 392 00:20:52,666 --> 00:20:54,926 Speaker 3: There's something in the book you said, like, what do 393 00:20:54,946 --> 00:20:56,866 Speaker 3: you want to keep in your room from your mom? 394 00:20:57,666 --> 00:20:59,806 Speaker 3: You know, and, you know, just like, is there something 395 00:21:00,025 --> 00:21:01,826 Speaker 3: of your mom's that you'd like to keep in your room? 396 00:21:01,926 --> 00:21:02,826 Speaker 2: I love that. 397 00:21:02,846 --> 00:21:05,766 Speaker 3: Can I print out some pictures that we could frame together? 398 00:21:05,926 --> 00:21:09,696 Speaker 3: You know, making these kinds of memories and helping in that. 399 00:21:09,755 --> 00:21:11,255 Speaker 3: I think that's so, so beautiful. 400 00:21:12,856 --> 00:21:13,656 Speaker 2: What about the. 401 00:21:13,636 --> 00:21:17,555 Speaker 3: Parent who is listening, but they are really, truly, I 402 00:21:17,556 --> 00:21:20,015 Speaker 3: have so much grief myself. 403 00:21:20,136 --> 00:21:21,876 Speaker 2: I can't think of even helping my child. 404 00:21:23,046 --> 00:21:26,366 Speaker 1: Yeah, which of course it can feel that way. And 405 00:21:27,346 --> 00:21:30,005 Speaker 1: I think that's where community comes in in such an 406 00:21:30,066 --> 00:21:34,296 Speaker 1: important way. And I would say it is really hard 407 00:21:34,316 --> 00:21:36,996 Speaker 1: to lean on people in times of grief. I took 408 00:21:37,035 --> 00:21:40,135 Speaker 1: a class in grad school called Grief and Loss. And 409 00:21:40,176 --> 00:21:45,015 Speaker 1: my favorite thing that the professor said was when someone 410 00:21:45,316 --> 00:21:47,966 Speaker 1: has lost someone, you don't call and say, what can 411 00:21:48,025 --> 00:21:49,906 Speaker 1: I do? Or let me know if you need me 412 00:21:50,025 --> 00:21:52,505 Speaker 1: because they never will. She said, you show up on 413 00:21:52,525 --> 00:21:53,926 Speaker 1: their doorstep with toilet paper. 414 00:21:54,346 --> 00:21:55,086 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yes. 415 00:21:55,586 --> 00:21:58,406 Speaker 1: And I love that it was that practical because we're 416 00:21:58,426 --> 00:22:01,085 Speaker 1: going to bring casseroles, but you need toilet paper and 417 00:22:01,126 --> 00:22:02,946 Speaker 1: you don't want to go cry in the grocery store. 418 00:22:02,965 --> 00:22:04,146 Speaker 2: For sure. 419 00:22:05,265 --> 00:22:08,626 Speaker 1: And I think it is hard to let people bring 420 00:22:08,666 --> 00:22:11,726 Speaker 1: toilet paper and they want to, the people in your 421 00:22:11,785 --> 00:22:14,606 Speaker 1: life want to give to you. And so to let 422 00:22:14,686 --> 00:22:18,705 Speaker 1: an aunt, a grandparent, a friend, to let other people 423 00:22:18,765 --> 00:22:22,476 Speaker 1: step in and love on you and love on your 424 00:22:22,535 --> 00:22:26,075 Speaker 1: child both is so important. And if it's hard to 425 00:22:26,136 --> 00:22:29,596 Speaker 1: find that community, find a therapist because that person can 426 00:22:29,656 --> 00:22:32,656 Speaker 1: step in. And, and like we talked about, some kids 427 00:22:32,715 --> 00:22:34,356 Speaker 1: are going to be afraid to share it all with 428 00:22:34,416 --> 00:22:37,055 Speaker 1: you because they're afraid they're going to make you more sad. 429 00:22:37,975 --> 00:22:41,156 Speaker 1: And so to have somebody else who's a trusted voice 430 00:22:41,336 --> 00:22:44,866 Speaker 1: in their life is really important for a period of time. 431 00:22:44,946 --> 00:22:47,626 Speaker 1: And it's okay. It's okay. If right now, all you 432 00:22:47,666 --> 00:22:52,016 Speaker 1: can do is be home and Maybe make lunch, put 433 00:22:52,035 --> 00:22:54,076 Speaker 1: them to bed and somebody else takes them to school 434 00:22:54,136 --> 00:22:56,566 Speaker 1: and somebody else takes them to therapy too. We have 435 00:22:56,725 --> 00:22:58,646 Speaker 1: certainly seen that happen in our offices. 436 00:22:58,686 --> 00:22:58,926 Speaker 3: Yeah. 437 00:22:59,285 --> 00:23:00,386 Speaker 2: No, that makes so much sense. 438 00:23:01,025 --> 00:23:04,496 Speaker 3: Post-traumatic growth, you know, that sixth stage that you talk about. 439 00:23:04,535 --> 00:23:07,796 Speaker 3: I'd love to end here that this grieving is not 440 00:23:07,876 --> 00:23:11,555 Speaker 3: for nothing. And God is with you, is working in 441 00:23:11,596 --> 00:23:14,686 Speaker 3: all these things. And He will make all things new someday. 442 00:23:14,765 --> 00:23:19,806 Speaker 3: That is coming. So talk a little bit about post-traumatic growth. 443 00:23:19,666 --> 00:23:20,886 Speaker 2: And the hope of that. 444 00:23:21,705 --> 00:23:24,835 Speaker 1: I love that you just wrapped it into scripture. Because 445 00:23:25,056 --> 00:23:28,696 Speaker 1: it is so cool when scientific research backs up scripture. 446 00:23:28,715 --> 00:23:31,335 Speaker 1: That's right. And we live in this world, Arlene, you 447 00:23:31,356 --> 00:23:32,996 Speaker 1: and I have talked about this before, but we live 448 00:23:33,035 --> 00:23:35,505 Speaker 1: in a world that is so drawn to all of 449 00:23:35,546 --> 00:23:39,446 Speaker 1: the negative things and all the drama and all the hard. 450 00:23:39,886 --> 00:23:45,846 Speaker 1: And that's where we focus. And when loss happens, when 451 00:23:45,936 --> 00:23:50,606 Speaker 1: grief happens, when trauma happens, We panic, of course, for 452 00:23:50,646 --> 00:23:53,806 Speaker 1: the kids that we love. Research says over and over 453 00:23:53,926 --> 00:23:58,745 Speaker 1: and over is post-traumatic growth is the norm. That's what 454 00:23:58,785 --> 00:24:02,976 Speaker 1: happens more than post-traumatic stress. God is making all things new. 455 00:24:03,416 --> 00:24:07,995 Speaker 1: He redeems all things. And He is at work. Whatever 456 00:24:08,076 --> 00:24:09,996 Speaker 1: is going on in the life of your family right now, 457 00:24:10,396 --> 00:24:14,865 Speaker 1: whatever big or little grief you have encountered, God is 458 00:24:14,965 --> 00:24:19,076 Speaker 1: at His redemptive work in this very moment. to make 459 00:24:19,156 --> 00:24:19,736 Speaker 1: all things new. 460 00:24:20,116 --> 00:24:20,336 Speaker 3: Yeah. 461 00:24:20,876 --> 00:24:21,355 Speaker 2: It's so odd. 462 00:24:21,495 --> 00:24:25,086 Speaker 3: Easter is coming always. You wrote that in the book 463 00:24:25,285 --> 00:24:31,926 Speaker 3: and I loved that so much. The, there is something, 464 00:24:31,965 --> 00:24:34,535 Speaker 3: it kind of goes with this. You wrote in the 465 00:24:34,576 --> 00:24:38,255 Speaker 3: book after, you know, all these different losses, divorce, loss 466 00:24:38,296 --> 00:24:40,396 Speaker 3: of your mom, the loss of your dogs, loss of 467 00:24:40,436 --> 00:24:44,285 Speaker 3: your grandma. I can say today that I am more 468 00:24:44,336 --> 00:24:47,896 Speaker 3: me having walked through these losses, but I wasn't at first. 469 00:24:48,275 --> 00:24:50,555 Speaker 3: I was a lesser version of me, or maybe I 470 00:24:50,596 --> 00:24:54,856 Speaker 3: should say an angrier version for sure. So for our listeners, 471 00:24:54,896 --> 00:24:58,136 Speaker 3: just know wherever you are walking, wherever your kids are walking, 472 00:24:58,156 --> 00:25:01,795 Speaker 3: as you commit this to the Lord, as you listen, 473 00:25:01,926 --> 00:25:04,965 Speaker 3: as Sissy has taught us, that we can and our 474 00:25:05,005 --> 00:25:10,015 Speaker 3: kids can become this version of ourselves that God has redeemed. Sissy, 475 00:25:10,076 --> 00:25:12,075 Speaker 3: anything we didn't touch on that you want to share 476 00:25:12,176 --> 00:25:13,916 Speaker 3: and then tell us how to get this book and 477 00:25:13,936 --> 00:25:15,096 Speaker 3: to find out more about you? 478 00:25:15,116 --> 00:25:18,836 Speaker 1: No, Arlene, no. I'm just so grateful for having this 479 00:25:18,876 --> 00:25:21,535 Speaker 1: conversation with you. I'm so grateful for your heart and 480 00:25:21,596 --> 00:25:26,036 Speaker 1: how you lead so many people to hope and truth 481 00:25:26,156 --> 00:25:29,035 Speaker 1: and grace. And you just are making such a difference. 482 00:25:29,116 --> 00:25:31,096 Speaker 1: And it's an honor to be a part of that 483 00:25:31,136 --> 00:25:32,146 Speaker 1: with you anytime. 484 00:25:32,886 --> 00:25:33,446 Speaker 2: Thank you. 485 00:25:34,066 --> 00:25:38,886 Speaker 3: So the book, my friends, is called Helping Kids Through Grief. 486 00:25:39,475 --> 00:25:42,946 Speaker 3: A Parent's Guide for Making Sense of Death, Processing Loss, 487 00:25:43,245 --> 00:25:45,626 Speaker 3: and Finding Hope. And that's going to be wherever books 488 00:25:45,686 --> 00:25:47,965 Speaker 3: are sold. And I will put that in the show notes. 489 00:25:48,146 --> 00:25:54,515 Speaker 3: Raisingboysandgirls.com is where you find all things that Sissy has 490 00:25:54,696 --> 00:25:57,276 Speaker 3: and also David Thomas. So thank you, Sissy, so much 491 00:25:57,316 --> 00:25:58,756 Speaker 3: for your time. We love you so much. 492 00:25:58,936 --> 00:26:01,056 Speaker 1: Thank you for your time. I love you too, friend. 493 00:26:02,696 --> 00:26:03,295 Speaker 1: I hope you've. 494 00:26:03,176 --> 00:26:06,785 Speaker 3: Enjoyed today's conversation. I'd love to keep in touch beyond 495 00:26:06,826 --> 00:26:10,595 Speaker 3: this podcast. Click subscribe in the show notes and I 496 00:26:10,636 --> 00:26:12,975 Speaker 3: will give you my latest email to keep up on 497 00:26:13,035 --> 00:26:17,005 Speaker 3: what's happening with technology and kids. And maybe you like 498 00:26:17,086 --> 00:26:18,745 Speaker 3: reading or listening to books. 499 00:26:18,906 --> 00:26:20,005 Speaker 2: I have a lot of books. 500 00:26:20,166 --> 00:26:23,656 Speaker 3: You could start with the big three, Making Marriage Easier, 501 00:26:24,235 --> 00:26:28,105 Speaker 3: Parents Rising, or Screen Kids. A big thank you to 502 00:26:28,126 --> 00:26:30,656 Speaker 3: the team at Life Audio for their partnership with the 503 00:26:30,696 --> 00:26:34,996 Speaker 3: Happy Home Podcast. Check out lifeaudio.com for dozens of other 504 00:26:35,136 --> 00:26:40,485 Speaker 3: faith-related podcasts about prayer, Bible study, and more. Remember, you 505 00:26:40,525 --> 00:26:43,305 Speaker 3: don't have to come from a happy home to create one. 506 00:26:43,806 --> 00:26:45,876 Speaker 3: You too can have a happy home.