1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Hope for the Journey, the podcast for women 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: over forty who are ready to rise, rebuild, and reclaim 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: their story. I'm your host, Monica, and each week you'll 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 1: hear real, raw comeback stories from women who have walked 5 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: through the fire and found purpose on the other side. 6 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: If you're navigating change, chasing a dream, or simply searching 7 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: for your next step, you're not alone. This is your 8 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 1: place for courage, community, and the reminder that it's never 9 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: too late to rewrite the ending. We've got quite the 10 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: topic here today on Hope for the Journey. It's unmasking narcissism, 11 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 1: the things you can't see at first. I'll be back 12 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,160 Speaker 1: with that in just a moment after a word from 13 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,480 Speaker 1: our sponsors. Hi, this is Monica and this is Hope 14 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,639 Speaker 1: for the Journey, and I am really excited about this 15 00:00:55,800 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 1: topic today. It's unmasking narcissism, you know, the things that 16 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: we don't see at first, and so I'm glad to 17 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: hear today. This is the podcast for women over forty, 18 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: women who like me and maybe like you, who are 19 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: looking to reclaim their life, to rewrite their story, to 20 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: find out who they are in Christ, and to live 21 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 1: a healthy life. And my guest today is Kenza Haddock, 22 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: and Kenza is an author, she's a speaker, she's also 23 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:29,279 Speaker 1: a Christian counselor. Kensa is so good to see you again. 24 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. And I absolutely 25 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 2: love the word hope because that is what we need 26 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 2: keeps us going. 27 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: Yes, it is a word that we can hang on 28 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: to when nothing seems to be working or whatever. We hope, right, 29 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: we hope and we hold on to that. So, Kenza, 30 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: I have to tell you that the first time I 31 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: think that I ever heard the word narcissist, I my 32 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: thought as I listened to that was that narcissist that 33 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: it's like a personality disorder and people are born that way? 34 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: Is that right? 35 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 2: So, and that is a great question. That is something 36 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 2: that I get asked a lot. People ask often. You know, 37 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 2: what is narcissism to begin with? And is a narcissist 38 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 2: born that way? Do they become narcissistic over time? And 39 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 2: so I love, love, love that. Yes, we have psychology 40 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 2: and we have science, but what I love even more 41 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 2: is that we have the Bible as that anchor, as 42 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 2: that foundation, because science is the observation of behavior. I 43 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 2: can look at someone over a period of time and say, Okay, 44 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 2: they are displaying these tendencies. But the Bible is very clear. 45 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 2: And so what's cool about scripture is it literally points 46 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 2: or I'm sorry, what's cool about science is it literally 47 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 2: points to what the Bible says about narcissism. And so 48 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 2: a narcissist, a true narcissist is we were all born 49 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 2: with a sinful nature. I want to backtrack a little bit. Yeah, 50 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 2: of course we were all born with a sinful nature. Now, no, 51 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 2: not everyone who disagrees with us as a narcissist nuts. 52 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 2: I think where sometimes we water down the word narcissism. 53 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 2: We're like, oh, I don't like this person, they're a narcissists. 54 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 2: I don't like that person, they're narcissists. And so we 55 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 2: have to truly look at the clinical definition of what 56 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 2: narcissistic personality disorder first. A narcissisic personality a true narcissist 57 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 2: to someone who literally has an exaggerated sense of self importance. 58 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 2: If you think of someone who is obsessed, would be 59 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 2: in the best, the most powerful, the smartest, the most beautiful. 60 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 2: And I'm not talking about a spirit of excellence Monica. 61 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 2: I'm a spirit of excellence, is submitted to God's authority. Right, 62 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 2: we want to do our best in whatever God assigns us. 63 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 2: But a narcissist just looks after themselves. They need constant, 64 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 2: unwarranted admiration. They truly believe they are special in within themselves, 65 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 2: not worthy in Christ. No, they truly believe they are special. 66 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 2: And so these are just some, just a few of 67 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 2: the actual symptoms of narcissism. Now, how someone becomes that 68 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 2: way is one of two ways. Okay, they were either 69 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 2: born were all born with a sinful nature, right, But 70 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 2: throughout ages zero to nineteen, they experienced some sort of 71 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 2: series of traumatic experiences or one big trauma, okay, and 72 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 2: instead of being able to process through that trauma, what 73 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,559 Speaker 2: happened is they internalize the trauma and now they look 74 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,359 Speaker 2: at it as because of what happened to me, I 75 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 2: have something to prove. And so they internalize that trauma, 76 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,919 Speaker 2: and that trauma, unprocessed, turns into a root of bitterness, 77 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 2: and now they walk around with a chip on their shoulder. 78 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 2: They need to basically it's them against the world. That's 79 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,919 Speaker 2: the way they look at it. The second way, which 80 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 2: is very, very difficult to treat is. And I hate 81 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 2: to say this to mama's out there, but usually I 82 00:04:55,360 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 2: see it with mama's more than dad's. Is we if 83 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 2: we are within ourselves, insecure, we are more likely to 84 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 2: pick one child or even our children, and dowed over them. Now, 85 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 2: think of a mom who is who doesn't believe she 86 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 2: is worthy in Christ right, and now she takes a 87 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 2: child and she dotes over that child. And I'm not 88 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 2: talking about praise and encouragement. No, I'm talking about that 89 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 2: child is the sun and everything revolves around them. They 90 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 2: find their identity in their children. What happens is that child, 91 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 2: now being doted over, being served, becomes their standard. Now, 92 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 2: imagine that child goes out in the real world and 93 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 2: they miswork and their boss is writing them up. The 94 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 2: child looks at the boss now as an adult, and says, 95 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 2: what do you mean? There are consequences to my actions. 96 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 2: And so what happens when that kid grows up and 97 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 2: now they're in a relationship and everything you're in a 98 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 2: relationship with them, everything you do, you're gonna feel like 99 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 2: is substandard because what they were used to is very high. 100 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: And I'm so glad that you made the distinction, and 101 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: really we're talking about exaggerated sense of self importance, like 102 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: we should value ourselves. Like you were saying, you know, 103 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: you've written books, you've done TV, you've done all of 104 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: these things. God's given you these opportunities, and of course 105 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: you want to do your best, and I want to 106 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: do my best on this podcast, but I don't view 107 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: that what I do is better than what anybody else does. 108 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 1: So you're talking about either due to some trauma or 109 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: the way perhaps that a person is nurtured by their mother, 110 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: that if we just overly cater to our children, because 111 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: we all love our children, but we've all kensa is 112 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: like we've met people who their children can do no wrong. Yes, 113 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: you know, a group of kids can go out and 114 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: remember when our son was little, and you know, one 115 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: of the other moms, she was taking up for her 116 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 1: kid all the time. It was everybody else's fault. And 117 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 1: she says, but my son doesn't lie, and I thought, well. 118 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 2: He's not Jesus right right, right. 119 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 1: Children and we can love them and celebrate them, but 120 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: we have to be honest with them about when they 121 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 1: do wrong, or just to allow them to know that 122 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: the whole world doesn't revolve around them. 123 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:16,239 Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, absolutely, And we have to watch for between 124 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 2: the ages zero to nineteen because especially those zero to 125 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 2: five or during teenage years, those identity developmental stages of life. 126 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 2: If we literally, if we show them no discipline, then 127 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 2: how are they going to respond to the discipline of 128 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 2: the lord. They're not going to. We have to be 129 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 2: very careful. 130 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: They think they don't have to, and we see it. 131 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned the workplace, We see that, right, 132 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: you can't write me up. I mean, I had a 133 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: really good reason for being late. You know, you might 134 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: have a good reason, but if you do that over 135 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: and over again, you're going to get in trouble. And 136 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: that's just a consequence. So we teach our children so 137 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: that they don't experience this as adults. Now, narcissistic behavior 138 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: can be harmful to people. What how does abuse when 139 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: you're in a relationship with a narcissist, how does that 140 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: abuse affect the person you know that we would call 141 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: the victim? How does it affect them? 142 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 2: So one of the one of the symptoms that I 143 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 2: see so much of is they start questioning their reality. 144 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 2: They literally start wondering, am I losing my mind? And 145 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 2: of course on top of that, they start questioning their worth, 146 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 2: They start questioning just everything they know to be true. 147 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 2: Because here's the thing. The narcissistic person is going to 148 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 2: attack your identity, that is, that is one of the 149 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 2: main weapons they use, because if you if you pull 150 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,959 Speaker 2: the veil back, it's not truly. The Bible says, we 151 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 2: don't fight against flesh and blood, right, we fight against 152 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 2: spiritual forces of evil. Not to remove responsibility from that 153 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 2: narcissistic person, but who truly is the puppet master? That's 154 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 2: the enemy, the enemy of your soul is using that 155 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 2: narcissistic person to get to you. And here's just one 156 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 2: way to remember this. As soon as you start praying 157 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 2: for that narcissistic person. As hard as it is, as 158 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 2: soon as you start praying for them, it gets worse 159 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 2: because the enemy does not want you to pray for them. 160 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 2: He does not want you. He wants you to fight 161 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:23,679 Speaker 2: with flesh and blood. He doesn't want you to go 162 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 2: to war for them. And so watch out for starting 163 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 2: to question your identity. And another thing, if this is 164 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 2: a chosen relationship, meaning you espouse and I'm not talking 165 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 2: about parents, because sometimes we could have parents who are 166 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 2: narcissistic grandparents, uncles, aunts, or even mentors or a boss. 167 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 2: If this is a chosen relationship, I want you to 168 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 2: just go back to how that narcissistic person attracted you 169 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 2: or how you attracted them. A lot of times a 170 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 2: narcissistic person, I would say ninety percent of the time, 171 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:04,319 Speaker 2: they will literally attract someone who doesn't have a healthy 172 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 2: self image, a healthy sense of self esteem. And here's why. 173 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 2: If Monica, if I'm talking to you right, and if 174 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 2: I'm the narcissistic person, and I come up to you 175 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 2: and I start over complimenting you like I start. If 176 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 2: I give you like non compliments in one day with 177 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 2: a healthy level of self esteem, at some point, maybe 178 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 2: by compliment four or five, you're gonna be like, Okay, 179 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 2: what's going on here? Your discernment is going to k can. 180 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:34,319 Speaker 2: The problem that happens so often, and this is where 181 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 2: my compassion goes for the victim, is that the victim 182 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:41,719 Speaker 2: has a low level of self esteem. They have been 183 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 2: depleted of compliments, they have been depleted of people encouraging them, 184 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 2: people around them encouraging them, and so they're already isolated. 185 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 2: They meet that narcissistic person that narcissist can smell low 186 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 2: self esteem from a mile away, so they go after 187 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 2: them and they over compliment, compliment them. They I mean. 188 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 2: And so here's what happens clinically speaking, when they complimented 189 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 2: you and they treated you well because you weren't used 190 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 2: to it. There's a chemical in your body called dopamine. 191 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 2: It's very addictive. That chemical rushed through your system and 192 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 2: so now over time, your body starts literally associating that 193 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:25,359 Speaker 2: chemical feel good hormones with that person, and it's addictive. 194 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 2: That's why when that person started mistreating you, you start questioning, 195 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 2: where did I go wrong? How can I fix this relationship? 196 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 2: Does that make sense? 197 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: Sure does, because we're thinking that at that point. But 198 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: this used to be so good. This person used to 199 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: like me, and so it's manipulative. And you're right, nobody 200 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:52,200 Speaker 1: compliments somebody all day long. That's that's unusual. But for them, 201 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: you know, narcissists, they can be very charming and they 202 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 1: know and so then they get their foot in the door. 203 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: And that's why I said on maasking narcissism, what we 204 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: don't see it first. If what you're saying is if 205 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: the person has low self esteem, they may not see 206 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: it first that that's unusual to keep on complimenting, to 207 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: keep maybe sending flowers, to keep on doing nice things 208 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: you haven't had it done. So the person might even think, Wow, 209 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: this is an answer to prayer. This man is pursuing me, 210 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: and he seems too good to be true. And then 211 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 1: you kind of settle in that relationship and they make 212 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 1: you question yourself. Could you, I know you've got a 213 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: counseling practice and things. Could you give an example, no names, 214 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: of course, of what that might look like. 215 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting you mentioned the answer to prayer, 216 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 2: and I totally forgot how often I would hear that term. 217 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 2: Because they meet this person and they truly feel like 218 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 2: it's an answer to prayer. This is the person that 219 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 2: they've been praying for, and they've been tired of just 220 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 2: living a single life, whether that person is a single 221 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 2: mane or they've just been single and they've wanted a partner. 222 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 2: They've prayed, Lord, please give me, give me a partner 223 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 2: to live life with. And I'm ready, and they've done 224 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 2: the work, and then that person comes out of nowhere, 225 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 2: and so yeah, they do believe that. And so here's 226 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:20,199 Speaker 2: here's the example. That that I want to give. Whenever 227 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 2: the person approaches them with all these compliments, think of 228 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 2: yourself as someone who hasn't had water in like two days. 229 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 2: You will be so thirsty that you'll drink anything at 230 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 2: that point that's offered to you. So here's this narcissistic person. 231 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 2: They come in as like a knight and shining armor. 232 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 2: They give you the water, right, and then you go 233 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:46,079 Speaker 2: thirsty again they give you water, So now you're associating 234 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 2: them with water, with your source of life. That's why 235 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 2: it's so hard to break ties. Now, once they have 236 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 2: you hooked, then they feel then they unmask themselves and 237 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 2: they start mistreating you. But by that point you have 238 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 2: literally become i mean chemically addicted to them at that point. 239 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 2: And so that's why it's so hard to break tithes 240 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 2: with a narcissistic person. But it is possible. 241 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're going to talk about after the break, 242 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: like some steps to get free, because I love it 243 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: that you understand the science. But you are also a 244 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: person of the faith. You know, God does not want 245 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: us to be stuck in a toxic cycle. And what 246 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: happens to many of us, like you know, I told 247 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: you it's the podcast for women over forty. We start 248 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: to repeat these cycles. It's like, this is what happened before, 249 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: and then it's going to happen again, And it's kind 250 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: of people use that phrase, you know, it's just the 251 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: story of my life, and I think, okay, but let's 252 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: rewrite the story with hope. Let's rewrite the story with freedom, 253 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: because you don't have to stay stuck. So I want 254 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: all of you just stay with us. We will be 255 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: back Kensa and I in just a moment, right after 256 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: a word from our sponsors. Okay, Kenza, we've been talking 257 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: about unmasking narcissism, and you wrote a book by that title, 258 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: Exposing and Breaking Free from hidden Patterns of abuse, and 259 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: so we've been talking about how the narcissist is a manipulator, 260 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: comes on strong, charming, gets you hooked, and you know, 261 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: when anything is good, you want to repeat that experience. Right. 262 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,359 Speaker 1: It's even why we go back to the same restaurant 263 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: or amusement park, or the same vacation destination. It was 264 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: wonderful before. So this person then with low self esteem, 265 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: just gets one overheartened soul. It's been good. Then they 266 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: get mistreated and they keep going back because they want 267 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: it to be like it used to be. What are 268 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 1: just some or are there are there some simple practical 269 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: steps that a woman could start employing that might help 270 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: her get free. 271 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 2: Absolutely, so the first thing, first things first is if 272 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 2: you're not in a relationship with Jesus, that is the 273 00:15:56,320 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 2: first step. Because here's the thing. Once you give your 274 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 2: life to Jesus and the Holy Spirit comes and and 275 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 2: dwells you, the Bible says, greater is he that is 276 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 2: in you than he who is in the world. You 277 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 2: don't want to fight this fight alone. That is I mean, 278 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 2: is it's impossible. You cannot fight it alone. So give 279 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 2: your life to Jesus. That's number one. Number two, start 280 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 2: searching scriptures and start feasting on the word of God 281 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 2: because that is so important because as you strengthen yourself, 282 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 2: the narcissistic person's grip starts to loose off of you. 283 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 2: And here's how. As you strengthen yourself, there will be 284 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 2: steps that you need to take, and you have to 285 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 2: take them incourage. Okay, Number I'll start with just a 286 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 2: few steps. I won't even number that at this point 287 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 2: out you want to understand beyond the reasonable doubt that 288 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 2: You cannot fix the narcissistic person. You can pray for them, 289 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 2: but it is not your job to fix them. Clinical 290 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 2: narcissism is very difficult to treat to begin with that, Really, 291 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 2: the prognosis does not look good for it. Now, is 292 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 2: it possible for them to get better? Absolutely? There's biblical 293 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 2: figures like for example, King Nebukanzer like he, I mean, 294 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 2: the Lord humbled him. So the Lord can't humble someone 295 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:13,879 Speaker 2: and he can transform the heart. That person has to 296 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 2: be willing. So apart from praying for the person, you 297 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 2: want to set appropriate boundaries with them. Here's an example. 298 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 2: If that person speaks to you in a way that 299 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 2: just in a way, that is the meaning you're allowed 300 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 2: to say, hey, listen, I don't appreciate the way this 301 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 2: conversation is headed. If it continues to be in that direction, 302 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 2: then I'm going to end the call or I'm going 303 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 2: to walk away. Now here's the caveat when they continue, 304 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 2: because they will, they will push your buttons. Then you 305 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 2: have to either hang up or walk away. And when 306 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 2: you do that the first couple of times, because your 307 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 2: neural networks, the way your brain works has not has 308 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 2: not been used to you asserting yourself. You're going to 309 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 2: feel bad, and so when you feel bad, do not 310 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 2: call and try to make it better. Do not beat 311 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 2: yourself up. It's called inappropriate guilt. Just talk yourself out 312 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 2: of feeling guilty. Call a friend who was very supportive 313 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:11,959 Speaker 2: and talk to them about the situation. But you have 314 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 2: to set those boundaries over and over, which leads us 315 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 2: to the next point. You want to develop a sense 316 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 2: of community. And narcissistic person's going to isolate you, okay, 317 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 2: And so you want to develop a sense of community 318 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 2: where the person or people are both encouraging and they 319 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 2: hold you accountable, meaning when you start to isolate, they 320 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,199 Speaker 2: will say they will try to draw you out. And 321 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 2: people that you can also call and say, hey, listen, 322 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 2: I'm having an awful day with these negative thoughts, or 323 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 2: I'm having an awful day. This person just called me 324 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 2: once I set my boundaries and they called me names 325 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 2: and people who will speak life into you. Because while 326 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 2: you can't do it alone without the Holy Spirit, you 327 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,439 Speaker 2: also don't want to do it without that fellowship, that 328 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 2: community that can support you along the way. 329 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, God made all of us for community, 330 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 1: and we think, you know, on every podcast episode that 331 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: we've had for Hope with the journey so far, every 332 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: single thing and speaking of like rewriting your story, reclaiming 333 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 1: your life, not giving away your power. There's an element 334 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 1: of community in that because we need each other. And 335 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: I think, like you said, people get isolated and when 336 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: we do, we're not able to see things clearly anymore. 337 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: So you're talking about okay, breaking free, Start praying, Start 338 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: reading the word of God, feed your heart, your brain, 339 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,159 Speaker 1: your life, the truth so that you can start to 340 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: recognize these unhealthy things and then have safe people in 341 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: your life. I call them sometimes your two AM friend, 342 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: that you could call it two am and they'll be 343 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: there for you with godly encouragement, with faith encouragement. 344 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely, there are a few There are a few 345 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 2: steps that are particular to the specific cycle you may 346 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 2: be caught up in, because narcissistic abuse recovery is not 347 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 2: a one size fits all. The way you would heal 348 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 2: from narcissistic abuse would be different from the way I 349 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 2: would heal because our response to it would be different. 350 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 2: And there are four different responses that I include, like, 351 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 2: for example, the over accommodating. When you become that person 352 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,439 Speaker 2: who literally gets in the habit, your whole life becomes 353 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 2: about keeping the peace, peacemaking. We're not called to be 354 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 2: peace keepers, We're called to be peace makers, right, but 355 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 2: it becomes about peacekeeping and just pacifying that narcissists and 356 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 2: how to get out of that. For me personally, when 357 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:47,919 Speaker 2: I experienced narcissistic abuse, my response to that was rebelling 358 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 2: against anybody who would try to get close to me 359 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 2: because I just saw people as unsafe. I saw relationships 360 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 2: as very costly. It wasn't until the Lord healed me 361 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 2: from all of that, and I was vulnerable with the 362 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 2: Lord and with other people, and so there are different 363 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 2: ways for us to heal. They all involved the Lord 364 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,640 Speaker 2: and of course the support of other. 365 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: People, and I think that that is very important. I 366 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: love also that you were so forthright to say, the 367 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 1: first time you set a boundary, you're probably going to 368 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 1: feel just awful, you know, Kenza. There have been people 369 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: who have spoken to me in just a really demeaning way, 370 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: but I really love them because I was related to 371 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: the person, and I had to start saying, if this continues, 372 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: I'm going to have to terminate the call. And it 373 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 1: did continue, and so then when I terminated the call. 374 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,479 Speaker 1: I felt like a horrible Christian person, because that's what 375 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: the narcissists will tell you. Why did you hang up 376 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: on me? Why? Well, because I was tired of being 377 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: stepped on. I was tired of being called names. I 378 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: was tired of all of those things. But I had 379 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 1: to want freedom enough that I was willing to go 380 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: through the difficulty. I had a very close friend at 381 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: the time, and she would just be my sounding board. 382 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 1: I would be like, okay, well they were saying this that, 383 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 1: and they're raising their voice, and she's like, no, you 384 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 1: did right, That's what you needed to do. You're not 385 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: saying that you hate the person. You're not saying you 386 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,120 Speaker 1: won't forgive them. You're related to them, But you have 387 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: to stop allowing yourself to be stepped on. 388 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 2: Absolutely. I love what you're saying, absolutely, because when we 389 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 2: continue to allow that cycle, it honestly breathes a root 390 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 2: of bitterness in our hearts, because that sense of powerlessness 391 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 2: is where bitterness just sits there. But when we give 392 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 2: ourselves permission and even listen, if right now you don't 393 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 2: have that friend that you can call until you have 394 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 2: that friend, when you set those boundaries imagine Jesus is 395 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 2: standing right next to you and he's given you permission 396 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 2: to set those boundaries. If somebody's calling you names and 397 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 2: being is the meaning to you, And this usually happens 398 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 2: around the holidays, when you know it's you have to 399 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 2: get together you would otherwise not get together with. And 400 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 2: it happens if I'm just throwing a name out there, 401 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 2: if Aunt Milda every time she sees you and gives 402 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 2: you like this backhanded compliment, it is okay to set 403 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 2: those boundaries and say, hey, you know, when you say this, 404 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 2: I really feel a certain way. Now they may say 405 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 2: I'm sorry you feel that way, which is not a 406 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 2: real apology, but it's okay for you to set those 407 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 2: boundaries and remove yourself from that situation. 408 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: And it's important to set those boundaries. That's how we 409 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: show ourselves and other people that we respect ourselves and 410 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: that because we really do in many ways we might 411 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: not realize it, but we do teach people how to 412 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 1: treat us. 413 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,679 Speaker 2: Yeah. No, absolutely, And so for all. 414 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 1: The women listening right now, if you're looking at your 415 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:54,120 Speaker 1: life and it's been a cycle of narcissistic abuse over 416 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: the years, then start to pray and read the word 417 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: and come up with a plan, even if it's one 418 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 1: step at a time, you know, to get free. And 419 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,679 Speaker 1: you know, kinda if they don't have like a safe 420 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,640 Speaker 1: friend yet because they've been isolated, it may be years 421 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: since they had friends. Maybe going to a Christian counselor 422 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: to just start having a sounding board, because you when 423 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: you're in narcissistic abuse, when someone's been doing that too, 424 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,199 Speaker 1: your perspective is no longer whatever normal is, it's no 425 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 1: longer a normal perspective or healthy perspective. 426 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 2: Absolutely, think of someone taking your glasses and shattering them 427 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 2: right or they're all correct, and that's the perspective you're 428 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 2: walking with because you've been in it for so long 429 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 2: and you want to get out, but you feel helpless 430 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 2: to you And absolutely yes, get Christian. Go find the 431 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 2: Christian counselor. You can go on the American Christian Counselor's 432 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 2: Association and locate one. They vetnam really well, and start 433 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,159 Speaker 2: the process to getting better and know that Jesus is 434 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 2: with you every step of the way. And a lot 435 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 2: of people ask our boundaries are they Christian? Because to 436 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 2: your point earlier, as soon as you set boundaries, and 437 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,439 Speaker 2: I've seen this in my life, my patients lives, my 438 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 2: friend's lives. One of the first things a narcissistic person 439 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,199 Speaker 2: or a toxic person will throw your way literally is 440 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,640 Speaker 2: your Christian faith. And they'll say, I can't, I can't 441 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 2: believe you're a Christian and Christian people don't act like that. 442 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 2: And it's like, I'm sorry, did we forget Genesis where 443 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 2: one of the first things that God set with Adam 444 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 2: was a boundary. He said, you can eat from any 445 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 2: tree except of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. 446 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 2: That's a boundary, a boundary in the relationship. And so, yeah, 447 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,719 Speaker 2: boundaries are Christian, they're Biblical. 448 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 1: And that's what the Ten Commandments are all about. That 449 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: is true. Yeah, absolutely, Like you love yourself, it's saying 450 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 1: be good to yourself there, because that's how we're loving 451 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: our neighbor, is how we love ourselves. So the narcissist 452 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: has a twisted view of reality. And so if they can, 453 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,959 Speaker 1: you know, isolate us, then we start buying into that 454 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: philosophy rather than what's outlined in the Word of God. 455 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 1: So Kenza, we're almost out of time, but you have 456 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: something also in the book, and again the title is 457 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 1: Unmasking narcissism by Kenza had it intervows, watch and overcome intervows. 458 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: What in the world does that mean? 459 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 2: Oh, I could tell you we could do a whole 460 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 2: thing on intervows, because that's something I've had to overcome 461 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 2: in my life. And it's basically and I've shared my 462 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 2: story in a previous show with you. And so because 463 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 2: I was hurt by family, even after I forgave them, 464 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 2: I still set myself on this. I had this standard 465 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 2: and I felt like I wasn't overcoming the hurt that 466 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 2: I experienced through them. It wasn't until the Lord opened 467 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 2: my eyes to we do set intervows. And I've seen 468 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 2: this in my patient's lives. So an intervow, for example, 469 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 2: is me saying I will be the best mom I 470 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 2: can ever be to my children. Well, when you see 471 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 2: it at face value or on like a just a 472 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 2: surface level, doesn't look wrong. I mean, who wouldn't want 473 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 2: to be the best parent. The problem with an interval 474 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 2: is we make it in judgment. Okay, it's self determining. 475 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,640 Speaker 2: I'm making that interval that in spite of how I 476 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,159 Speaker 2: was treated, this is how I'm going to be the 477 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 2: problem is every time I fell short of my standard 478 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 2: of perfection. The enemy came and started just breathing down 479 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 2: my neck with accusations. He's the accuser of the brethren, 480 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 2: and so I needed to repent and renounce all the 481 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 2: intervals I had made, like I will never trust again, 482 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 2: I will X, Y, and Z. And that's something, especially 483 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 2: if you've been hurt by the church. You'll say, I'll 484 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 2: never trust a pastor again, I'll never talk, you know, 485 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 2: get close to people at the church. Those intervals keep 486 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 2: us bound so much. They keep us from experiencing the 487 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,120 Speaker 2: true joy and freedom that Jesus died for us to have. 488 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: Because what they do is they set unhealthy boundaries in 489 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 1: our life, like I will never do that, I will 490 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 1: never go there, I won't trust again, And so we 491 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: may not realize the power that there isn't all of that. 492 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: But you do outline this in the book, and I 493 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: think reading a book by yourself is also a great 494 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,679 Speaker 1: way to start the journey to freedom because you're reading it, 495 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,640 Speaker 1: you're a licensed counselor, and a person can start to see, oh, 496 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 1: my goodness, this is where I need to rewrite my story. 497 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 1: This is where I've let people step on me or whatever. 498 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 1: So we've got just a minute left, Kenza, what is 499 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: one last thing you might want to share with a 500 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 1: woman who really says Kenza, I'm a Christian woman and 501 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: I want to live Jesus way. I want to be free. 502 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: How can I reclaim my life? 503 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 2: There's something that if you didn't hear anything else from 504 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 2: this here, it is every name that you've been called 505 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 2: by that narcissistic person. You know, all of those names 506 00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 2: cannot literally cannot overcome what God, God calls you, because 507 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 2: God has a higher standard. God is the judge. He's 508 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 2: a merciful judge. He's also a father when you are 509 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 2: in Christ. And so whatever that narcissistic person called you 510 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 2: has to submit to the name that God calls you, 511 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 2: and that is his beloved child. 512 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: And I love that because his word is the strongest. 513 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: His word is stronger than anything that's been spoken over us. 514 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: And I think to reclaim our life, to rewrite our story, 515 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: we have to fully believe that what God says about 516 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: us is true and that if anybody says anything else 517 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: other than that, then that is alive because God is 518 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: the truth. Well, I want to thank you, Kenza, for 519 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: coming for joining me today, for sharing some of the 520 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: things that you write about in your book, Unmasking Narcissism. 521 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Kenza. 522 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 2: Thank you. It was a great pleasure, it really was. 523 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 2: I've enjoyed it. 524 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: I've loved having you and you all. Thank you for 525 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 1: listening to Hope for the Journey. Today you can go 526 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: to the website. I'll list all of that in the 527 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: show notes. There will be more information and on the 528 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 1: book Unmasking Narcissism by Kenza Haddock. It will be there 529 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: all the links as well as resources and some tools 530 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 1: that will help you get the freedom that Jesus died 531 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: so that you can be free. So rewriting your story, 532 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: reclaiming your life. It's possible with God's help. I will 533 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 1: see you next time with more and more hope for 534 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: the journey.