1 00:00:02,700 --> 00:00:07,500 Speaker 1: Life Audio. I could keep preaching and talking, but I 2 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:10,420 Speaker 1: understand you have some questions. I'm not going to pretend 3 00:00:10,460 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: I have all of the answers to these things, but 4 00:00:12,780 --> 00:00:14,819 Speaker 1: I will do my best from my thinking to make 5 00:00:14,990 --> 00:00:17,130 Speaker 1: sense of them. All right, you're first. Hold the mic 6 00:00:17,470 --> 00:00:19,509 Speaker 1: right up there like ice cream. Just don't lick it. 7 00:00:23,489 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 2: So the question that I have is, why do bad 8 00:00:28,140 --> 00:00:31,540 Speaker 2: things happen to good people, especially. 9 00:00:31,500 --> 00:00:35,380 Speaker 1: Of the Christian faith? That's a great question. I'm going 10 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: to answer this maybe in a way that you don't expect. 11 00:00:38,780 --> 00:00:42,060 Speaker 1: Because you said, why do bad things happen to good people? 12 00:00:42,140 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 1: Here's my question. Tell me one good person who you know. 13 00:00:48,180 --> 00:00:51,229 Speaker 1: If the Bible's right and our reflection is true, no 14 00:00:51,420 --> 00:00:56,870 Speaker 1: one is good. No, not one. Paul makes that clear 15 00:00:56,890 --> 00:01:00,810 Speaker 1: in Romans chapter 3. That no one has good. We 16 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: are all sinful. Jesus says in Mark chapter 7 that 17 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,940 Speaker 1: it's out of the human heart that comes sloth and 18 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 1: envy and pride and lust and all other sins. So 19 00:01:12,660 --> 00:01:16,380 Speaker 1: there actually was one good person who lived. There's one 20 00:01:16,540 --> 00:01:20,770 Speaker 1: person only who never sinned. And this is repeated in 21 00:01:20,790 --> 00:01:24,410 Speaker 1: the scriptures. And what do we do to them? We 22 00:01:24,470 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: crucify them. We crucify them. Now, part of your question 23 00:01:27,540 --> 00:01:30,890 Speaker 1: behind this is you might say, okay, I agree. People 24 00:01:30,990 --> 00:01:35,810 Speaker 1: aren't totally good. we're broken and we're sinful, but still, 25 00:01:36,090 --> 00:01:39,730 Speaker 1: why does God allow bad, evil things to happen? I 26 00:01:39,770 --> 00:01:42,770 Speaker 1: would say to you, this is the biggest question that 27 00:01:42,830 --> 00:01:45,380 Speaker 1: people can ask. So I have a debate coming up 28 00:01:45,390 --> 00:01:47,060 Speaker 1: with the leading atheists in the world, and I think 29 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,700 Speaker 1: there's a ton of evidence for God. The one side 30 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:51,580 Speaker 1: of the scale that people try to say God doesn't 31 00:01:51,620 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: exist is the problem of evil. That's about it. Now, 32 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:57,820 Speaker 1: with that said, you have the problem of evil over here. 33 00:01:58,140 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: We have all this other evidence that Christianity is true. 34 00:02:01,470 --> 00:02:03,690 Speaker 1: We've got to look at this in light of the 35 00:02:03,750 --> 00:02:06,630 Speaker 1: changed lives and the origin of the universe and miracles 36 00:02:06,690 --> 00:02:09,610 Speaker 1: and prophecy and the evidence for the Bible. It's important 37 00:02:09,630 --> 00:02:11,850 Speaker 1: to keep that in context. The other thing that I 38 00:02:11,889 --> 00:02:14,190 Speaker 1: would say is I'm not a Christian because I can 39 00:02:14,270 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: answer exactly why evil and suffering happens to every single person. 40 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: I don't know the answer to that. How could I 41 00:02:22,300 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 1: possibly know unless God tells me? I'm a Christian because 42 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: I think Christianity offers a better response to why there's 43 00:02:30,940 --> 00:02:37,299 Speaker 1: evil and suffering than any other faith and religion. So 44 00:02:37,340 --> 00:02:40,530 Speaker 1: by the way, Muslims have to give an answer to 45 00:02:40,550 --> 00:02:43,430 Speaker 1: why there's suffering and evil. Buddhists have to give an answer. 46 00:02:43,910 --> 00:02:46,170 Speaker 1: Mormons have to give an answer. Atheists have to give 47 00:02:46,190 --> 00:02:48,650 Speaker 1: an answer. Everybody has to answer this question. So the 48 00:02:48,690 --> 00:02:51,650 Speaker 1: question is not, can I tell you exactly why every 49 00:02:51,770 --> 00:02:54,830 Speaker 1: evil and bad thing happens? No, the question is, Which 50 00:02:54,970 --> 00:02:59,510 Speaker 1: worldview offers the most satisfying response to the reason why 51 00:02:59,550 --> 00:03:02,150 Speaker 1: there's evil and suffering in the world? Now, we tend 52 00:03:02,169 --> 00:03:05,730 Speaker 1: to think that evil and good are opposites of each other, 53 00:03:06,450 --> 00:03:11,290 Speaker 1: but they're not. You see, you can have good without evil, 54 00:03:12,070 --> 00:03:16,540 Speaker 1: but you cannot have evil without good. You can have 55 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,859 Speaker 1: good without evil, but you can't have evil without good. 56 00:03:20,380 --> 00:03:25,590 Speaker 1: Let me explain. Evil depends upon and is parasitic upon good. 57 00:03:26,590 --> 00:03:29,270 Speaker 1: So imagine you have a wrench up here that's new 58 00:03:29,730 --> 00:03:31,730 Speaker 1: and it's a good wrench. What happens if it goes bad? 59 00:03:31,770 --> 00:03:35,190 Speaker 1: It gets what? It gets rust. Good. You can have 60 00:03:35,210 --> 00:03:39,510 Speaker 1: a good wrench that never goes bad. But what is rust? 61 00:03:39,670 --> 00:03:44,570 Speaker 1: It's when something good goes bad and gets corrupted. So 62 00:03:44,790 --> 00:03:49,010 Speaker 1: a wrench is the original design like good. Rust is 63 00:03:49,050 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: more like evil when something good gets corrupted. So evil 64 00:03:54,660 --> 00:04:00,660 Speaker 1: is parasitic upon good. Maybe one other way will help. 65 00:04:00,740 --> 00:04:09,150 Speaker 1: Think about truth and lies. What's more basic, truth or lie? Truth, exactly. 66 00:04:09,860 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: You can have truth without somebody telling a lie. But 67 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,359 Speaker 1: what's a lie, by the way? Okay, so we've got 68 00:04:16,380 --> 00:04:18,500 Speaker 1: to be careful. A lie is just not saying something 69 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: that's not true. Because if I said my wife is 70 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:24,910 Speaker 1: home right now making lunch, and I was wrong, I'm 71 00:04:24,950 --> 00:04:28,870 Speaker 1: not lying, I'm just wrong. So a lie is intentionally 72 00:04:28,990 --> 00:04:33,150 Speaker 1: saying something that's not true, right? Now, can you tell 73 00:04:33,230 --> 00:04:37,610 Speaker 1: a lie if there's no truth? Can you tell a lie? 74 00:04:37,650 --> 00:04:37,849 Speaker 3: No. 75 00:04:37,870 --> 00:04:37,930 Speaker 4: No. 76 00:04:38,820 --> 00:04:41,970 Speaker 1: It wouldn't be a lie, exactly. There has to be 77 00:04:42,130 --> 00:04:46,470 Speaker 1: truth for somebody to intentionally corrupt. Now, you can have 78 00:04:46,630 --> 00:04:49,770 Speaker 1: truth without somebody telling a lie, but you can't have 79 00:04:49,830 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: a lie unless you first have a standard of truth. 80 00:04:53,460 --> 00:04:55,420 Speaker 1: One more example. Think about, like, on a test, right 81 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: and wrong. What's the standard? Is it right or wrong? 82 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 1: The standard is it's right. Wrong is when you miss 83 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: the standards. So I gave you a test that everybody 84 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: gets right, but you can only get it wrong if 85 00:05:08,260 --> 00:05:11,020 Speaker 1: there's first a standard that's right. Now, why does this matter? 86 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,289 Speaker 1: When somebody looks at the world and says, why is 87 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:19,289 Speaker 1: there evil? What does that presume? They're saying something's broken. 88 00:05:19,770 --> 00:05:25,710 Speaker 1: Something's not right. Things shouldn't be this way, which only 89 00:05:25,790 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 1: makes sense to say something's wrong if there's first something 90 00:05:29,180 --> 00:05:31,979 Speaker 1: that's right. It only makes sense to say things shouldn't 91 00:05:32,060 --> 00:05:34,980 Speaker 1: be this way if there's a way the world should be. 92 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: It only makes sense to say there's evil if there's 93 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:43,700 Speaker 1: first good. So ironically, when an atheist or somebody complains 94 00:05:43,740 --> 00:05:46,250 Speaker 1: about evil in the world, that's a good reason to 95 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:51,289 Speaker 1: believe there's objective good. And friends, there's only objective good 96 00:05:52,250 --> 00:05:54,570 Speaker 1: if there's a God. That's what I would call the 97 00:05:54,610 --> 00:05:57,630 Speaker 1: beginning of a Christian response to the problem of evil. 98 00:05:58,550 --> 00:06:01,990 Speaker 1: Evil actually points towards there being objective good and the 99 00:06:02,070 --> 00:06:06,549 Speaker 1: existence of God, ironically. And in Christianity, God steps into 100 00:06:06,589 --> 00:06:10,729 Speaker 1: it and experiences it and knows it and promises someday 101 00:06:10,850 --> 00:06:15,990 Speaker 1: to redeem it all for good. So, thank you for 102 00:06:16,050 --> 00:06:18,010 Speaker 1: asking that question. I hope that helps some. 103 00:06:18,029 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 3: I want to go back to the beginning. I want 104 00:06:21,140 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 3: to go to Genesis. And so this was something that 105 00:06:23,779 --> 00:06:25,540 Speaker 3: always stumped me in the beginning of my faith, and 106 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,550 Speaker 3: I still would like it. A little bit of clarity here, right? 107 00:06:28,950 --> 00:06:32,690 Speaker 3: So we go back to Genesis where it's Adam, Eve, Cain, 108 00:06:32,710 --> 00:06:36,180 Speaker 3: and Abel. When Cain kills his brother Abel, he is 109 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 3: cast from the garden. Who is it that he marries 110 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:40,299 Speaker 3: if there's only these four people? 111 00:06:41,260 --> 00:06:45,530 Speaker 1: Oh, that's a great question. So you're going to find 112 00:06:45,690 --> 00:06:50,270 Speaker 1: differences among theologians how they address this. So here's where 113 00:06:50,290 --> 00:06:52,410 Speaker 1: you're going to see the teacher come out in me, 114 00:06:53,070 --> 00:06:55,810 Speaker 1: lay out two options, and then invite you back in 115 00:06:55,860 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 1: the text to see which one you think is most compelling. Now, 116 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: one answer would be, Adam lived how long according to 117 00:07:03,540 --> 00:07:07,870 Speaker 1: the text? Like 900 and some years. So I've got 118 00:07:07,890 --> 00:07:11,750 Speaker 1: three kids. I just turned 50. In 900 and some 119 00:07:11,790 --> 00:07:15,690 Speaker 1: years before like the fallenness of the world, you can 120 00:07:15,730 --> 00:07:20,010 Speaker 1: have kids and grandkids and great, great, great grandkids who 121 00:07:20,090 --> 00:07:24,190 Speaker 1: are spreading out, filling up the land all over the place. 122 00:07:25,170 --> 00:07:29,119 Speaker 1: So in one sense, one reasonable interpretation is They lived, 123 00:07:29,180 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: we don't know exactly how long, go out to these 124 00:07:31,700 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: other lands that are removed significantly from them some kind 125 00:07:36,980 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: of distant ancestor that Cain went out to. That's probably 126 00:07:41,350 --> 00:07:47,050 Speaker 1: the traditional response that people would give. A different response, 127 00:07:47,110 --> 00:07:51,430 Speaker 1: which raises other theological questions, is some theologians would argue 128 00:07:51,470 --> 00:07:56,430 Speaker 1: that God created different people apart from Adam and Eve. 129 00:07:57,050 --> 00:08:00,110 Speaker 1: And so we all trace back to Adam and Eve, 130 00:08:00,210 --> 00:08:04,390 Speaker 1: and the story is uniquely about them, but God created 131 00:08:04,710 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: other people groups. Now that's going to raise some theological 132 00:08:09,700 --> 00:08:15,100 Speaker 1: questions about how we're biologically, physically related and connected together, 133 00:08:15,860 --> 00:08:18,460 Speaker 1: and how Jesus' death, does it atone for them? It's 134 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: going to raise some different theological questions, but some theologians 135 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,350 Speaker 1: have written some pretty in-depth books trying to give reasons 136 00:08:25,410 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: why God could create people Adam and Eve, and then 137 00:08:28,660 --> 00:08:32,210 Speaker 1: other people groups as well. But the typical answer would 138 00:08:32,250 --> 00:08:33,809 Speaker 1: be the first one that I gave you, that they 139 00:08:33,850 --> 00:08:37,770 Speaker 1: were living a lot longer at that time, and generations 140 00:08:37,830 --> 00:08:41,790 Speaker 1: and generations and generations would have been removed from them. So, 141 00:08:42,050 --> 00:08:42,790 Speaker 1: it's a great question. 142 00:08:43,210 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 2: Is there something that I could refer to that would 143 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:48,580 Speaker 2: show me that Jesus was God? 144 00:08:49,980 --> 00:08:52,439 Speaker 1: Okay, so to make sure I understand, are you looking 145 00:08:52,500 --> 00:08:57,210 Speaker 1: for passages and evidence that Jesus is really God in 146 00:08:57,330 --> 00:09:01,569 Speaker 1: human flesh? That's the question. Okay, great question, by the way. 147 00:09:02,010 --> 00:09:05,290 Speaker 1: There are certain theological questions that are important and they're peripheral. 148 00:09:05,990 --> 00:09:09,310 Speaker 1: This is about as central as you can get of 149 00:09:09,350 --> 00:09:12,670 Speaker 1: a question. Who is Jesus? And the Christian narrative is 150 00:09:12,809 --> 00:09:17,090 Speaker 1: he's a human being and he's divine. So how do 151 00:09:17,130 --> 00:09:20,020 Speaker 1: we know that Jesus is divine? I would encourage you, 152 00:09:20,179 --> 00:09:22,339 Speaker 1: if there's any book to read, I would really go 153 00:09:22,380 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 1: through the Gospel of John. One of the ways I 154 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,059 Speaker 1: study the Bible is I don't just read one book 155 00:09:27,100 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: and move on to the next. I read a book 156 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:34,190 Speaker 1: over and over and over again. Then you see patterns. 157 00:09:34,230 --> 00:09:37,290 Speaker 1: Then you see connections. Then you start to see themes. 158 00:09:38,130 --> 00:09:41,370 Speaker 1: And I think it's really clear in Mark, the earliest Gospel, 159 00:09:41,429 --> 00:09:43,230 Speaker 1: that Jesus is God. And we could circle back to 160 00:09:43,270 --> 00:09:45,490 Speaker 1: that if you want to. But I think John makes 161 00:09:45,550 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: it so explicit. He starts off by saying, in the 162 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, 163 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:57,630 Speaker 1: and the Word was God. He was with God in 164 00:09:57,730 --> 00:10:02,620 Speaker 1: the beginning. and he says all things were created through 165 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: him apart from him nothing was created that has been 166 00:10:07,380 --> 00:10:09,420 Speaker 1: created in him was the life and the life was 167 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:11,939 Speaker 1: the light of men he goes on notice what john 168 00:10:11,980 --> 00:10:13,900 Speaker 1: says he goes in the beginning was the word and 169 00:10:13,940 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: if you keep reading john 1 the word he's referring 170 00:10:17,210 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: to jesus was god But then he's with God. So 171 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: how can he be God, but also be with God? 172 00:10:28,220 --> 00:10:31,180 Speaker 1: And the answer is, we see that Jesus and the 173 00:10:31,260 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: Father are fully, truly God. But there's also a distinction 174 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,230 Speaker 1: that's there. Because he is God, but he's with God. 175 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:42,860 Speaker 1: So early church is trying to make sense of, okay, 176 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,569 Speaker 1: wait a minute. How can he be God but be distinct? 177 00:10:46,190 --> 00:10:47,930 Speaker 1: And that's when we get to the Trinity, which we 178 00:10:47,950 --> 00:10:50,210 Speaker 1: could also circle back with. But I think John 1 179 00:10:50,210 --> 00:10:53,050 Speaker 1: makes it very clear that Jesus, in the beginning, was 180 00:10:53,070 --> 00:10:56,030 Speaker 1: the Word. He was with God, and he was God. Now, 181 00:10:56,050 --> 00:10:58,239 Speaker 1: you don't have to stop there. If you're reading John 182 00:10:58,290 --> 00:11:03,460 Speaker 1: chapter 5, you're reading John chapter 8, it's very, very 183 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:08,780 Speaker 1: clear that John is arguing that Jesus is God. You 184 00:11:08,820 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: present the gospel, right? 185 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:16,780 Speaker 4: Faith that we got. Jesus calls it my faith in 186 00:11:16,940 --> 00:11:24,230 Speaker 4: Revelations 2.13. And one of the fruit of the Holy 187 00:11:24,250 --> 00:11:29,970 Speaker 4: Spirit is faith. And the Bible teaches that he is 188 00:11:30,010 --> 00:11:31,910 Speaker 4: the author and finisher of our faith. 189 00:11:32,570 --> 00:11:33,569 Speaker 3: Is faith. 190 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 4: Something that is given to us supernaturally, like the fruit, 191 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:43,060 Speaker 4: the lime fruit of the Holy Spirit. 192 00:11:44,179 --> 00:11:44,690 Speaker 1: Because in. 193 00:11:46,610 --> 00:11:49,850 Speaker 4: John chapter 6, Jesus said, no one come to me 194 00:11:49,890 --> 00:11:54,990 Speaker 4: unless the Father draws him, right? So the faith that 195 00:11:55,010 --> 00:12:01,590 Speaker 4: we got in believing in God is given to us supernaturally, right? 196 00:12:02,290 --> 00:12:04,530 Speaker 4: Do you understand. 197 00:12:04,190 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: What I'm saying? I think I'm tracking with you. 198 00:12:06,290 --> 00:12:07,010 Speaker 3: Yes, yes. 199 00:12:07,730 --> 00:12:11,580 Speaker 4: You know, the faith that we got, you know, because 200 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 4: it's like, I would say it would be like the 201 00:12:13,300 --> 00:12:15,860 Speaker 4: document of predestination and election, right? 202 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 3: That we're given, right? 203 00:12:17,300 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 4: You know, the faith. 204 00:12:19,380 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: That's my question. That is a big question, Herman. So 205 00:12:23,700 --> 00:12:25,449 Speaker 1: I'm going to put my teacher hat on here. I 206 00:12:25,500 --> 00:12:29,010 Speaker 1: used to teach high school Bible for a decade, full time. 207 00:12:29,770 --> 00:12:32,370 Speaker 1: And there's some questions I would answer my students and 208 00:12:32,429 --> 00:12:35,230 Speaker 1: some I wouldn't. I wouldn't tell him where I landed 209 00:12:35,309 --> 00:12:37,490 Speaker 1: on this. What I would try to do is give 210 00:12:37,510 --> 00:12:39,990 Speaker 1: him different perspectives how to make sense of this. So 211 00:12:40,070 --> 00:12:43,970 Speaker 1: Jesus being the God-man, if you don't believe that, you're 212 00:12:44,130 --> 00:12:47,620 Speaker 1: out of the Christian fold. Now how you reconcile God's 213 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:53,660 Speaker 1: sovereignty with human free will, there's different models and ways 214 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,270 Speaker 1: of making sense to this that Christians have and probably 215 00:12:57,390 --> 00:13:00,790 Speaker 1: always will disagree over. And you're going to have to 216 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 1: answer this by really wrestling with scripture as you are 217 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: and asking what you think is most consistent and philosophically 218 00:13:06,620 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: sound and go with it. So on one side, you'd 219 00:13:10,179 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: have more what is Arminianism, not Arminianism, Arminianism that leans 220 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:21,020 Speaker 1: into human free will. God is sovereign, but we have 221 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:25,140 Speaker 1: a choice to respond to God or not. If you 222 00:13:25,179 --> 00:13:29,370 Speaker 1: come over to the Calvinist side, It's far more God's sovereignty. 223 00:13:29,380 --> 00:13:33,450 Speaker 1: And he comes in and flips the switch to turn 224 00:13:33,890 --> 00:13:37,329 Speaker 1: on your means of salvation and from beginning to end 225 00:13:37,610 --> 00:13:41,819 Speaker 1: accomplishes it. So the Arminian wouldn't say, I save myself. 226 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,820 Speaker 1: They just say, God, nobody, like for example, the passage 227 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:47,420 Speaker 1: in John, nobody can come to the Father unless God 228 00:13:47,460 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: draws them. Well, God is actually drawing all of us 229 00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:53,900 Speaker 1: in different ways through creation and Through conscience, some people 230 00:13:53,940 --> 00:13:57,460 Speaker 1: through dreams, some people through testimony. So he's drawing all 231 00:13:57,500 --> 00:14:00,439 Speaker 1: of us. God gives the credit, an Arminian would say. 232 00:14:00,460 --> 00:14:03,059 Speaker 1: They just say we have a choice, so to speak, 233 00:14:03,140 --> 00:14:07,070 Speaker 1: if we respond or not. In the middle is something 234 00:14:07,110 --> 00:14:12,190 Speaker 1: very interesting, is a position called Molinism. And it's basically, 235 00:14:12,270 --> 00:14:16,290 Speaker 1: so it's called, it's from Luis Molina. And it's a 236 00:14:16,309 --> 00:14:20,970 Speaker 1: very creative way of trying to reconcile God's sovereignty with 237 00:14:21,670 --> 00:14:26,860 Speaker 1: human sovereignty. free will and very simply it's the idea 238 00:14:27,370 --> 00:14:29,790 Speaker 1: that god not only knows what will happen in the 239 00:14:29,850 --> 00:14:37,390 Speaker 1: future he knows every conceivable thing that would happen so 240 00:14:37,410 --> 00:14:39,330 Speaker 1: you think if there's a phrase about like if if 241 00:14:39,380 --> 00:14:43,500 Speaker 1: these miracles had been done in tyre and sidon here's 242 00:14:43,580 --> 00:14:47,340 Speaker 1: how they would have responded that never happened but god 243 00:14:47,500 --> 00:14:53,580 Speaker 1: knows these contingencies So in his sovereignty, what does he do? 244 00:14:53,940 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: He selects a world, so to speak, knowing what we 245 00:14:58,220 --> 00:15:03,380 Speaker 1: will freely choose, but he sovereignly has selected that world 246 00:15:03,470 --> 00:15:08,229 Speaker 1: with knowledge of the contingencies of how it plays itself out. Now, 247 00:15:08,690 --> 00:15:12,350 Speaker 1: you've got to decide which one you think is most reasonable. 248 00:15:12,370 --> 00:15:14,580 Speaker 1: I'm not going to answer that for you, but what 249 00:15:14,740 --> 00:15:17,690 Speaker 1: everybody agrees on is that we have free will, They'll 250 00:15:17,710 --> 00:15:22,020 Speaker 1: just differ over what free will is. So on the Arminian, 251 00:15:22,260 --> 00:15:25,340 Speaker 1: and really it's called Molinism in the middle, they'll say 252 00:15:25,380 --> 00:15:28,590 Speaker 1: we have what's called libertarian free will. I could use 253 00:15:28,830 --> 00:15:32,030 Speaker 1: A or I could choose B, and decisions are up 254 00:15:32,210 --> 00:15:36,110 Speaker 1: to me. Some you might find hard Calvinists that are 255 00:15:36,210 --> 00:15:40,150 Speaker 1: pure determinists. Others hold a view more that's called compatibilism, 256 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,340 Speaker 1: that is just acting according to my desires. So I 257 00:15:43,380 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: can't choose God unless God comes down and turns on 258 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:52,830 Speaker 1: the light and enables me to choose him. So almost 259 00:15:52,970 --> 00:15:55,930 Speaker 1: everyone's going to say, well, we have free will. They're 260 00:15:55,970 --> 00:16:00,090 Speaker 1: just going to differ over what free will is. All 261 00:16:00,190 --> 00:16:03,770 Speaker 1: sides are going to say that God is sovereign. They're 262 00:16:03,810 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: just going to differ over what God knows, how he 263 00:16:06,420 --> 00:16:10,790 Speaker 1: knows it. and how God sovereignly interacts with the world. 264 00:16:11,690 --> 00:16:15,180 Speaker 1: Now that might be profoundly unsatisfactory to you, but the 265 00:16:15,260 --> 00:16:18,100 Speaker 1: teacher in me wants to resist telling you one and 266 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: to push you back to the scriptures and keep saying, 267 00:16:20,940 --> 00:16:23,140 Speaker 1: all right, what does the Bible mean by this? And 268 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,330 Speaker 1: by the way, when the Bible says God is the 269 00:16:25,570 --> 00:16:30,290 Speaker 1: author and perfecter of our faith, all sides would agree 270 00:16:30,350 --> 00:16:33,490 Speaker 1: with that. Even our minions would say, well, of course 271 00:16:33,850 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: that he is. I'm working with God, like it says, 272 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,860 Speaker 1: work out your salvation. I'm not doing this in my 273 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,970 Speaker 1: own power. God is working with the Holy Spirit, like 274 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,990 Speaker 1: you said, through me, but I have agency and responsibility. 275 00:16:49,610 --> 00:16:52,570 Speaker 1: So I'm trying to frame it more for you than 276 00:16:52,590 --> 00:16:54,710 Speaker 1: I am simply answer it, because that's what I would 277 00:16:54,750 --> 00:16:56,030 Speaker 1: do for my own students. 278 00:16:56,990 --> 00:16:59,130 Speaker 2: There was heaven in God. I guess that God was 279 00:16:59,210 --> 00:17:02,890 Speaker 2: in heaven with the devil and those angels and those 280 00:17:02,910 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 2: people who were in heaven with them. And I believe 281 00:17:06,140 --> 00:17:08,540 Speaker 2: that somewhere in the Bible it's depicted what heaven is 282 00:17:08,580 --> 00:17:11,570 Speaker 2: like and its characteristics and that things in heaven are 283 00:17:11,590 --> 00:17:14,750 Speaker 2: good as well as all the things that God created 284 00:17:15,250 --> 00:17:18,830 Speaker 2: that he said in Genesis, I believe, 131, that all 285 00:17:18,869 --> 00:17:20,070 Speaker 2: things he created was good. 286 00:17:20,430 --> 00:17:23,459 Speaker 1: So he was asking me, you know, how is it. 287 00:17:23,450 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 2: That everything God created was good and for the good, 288 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 2: but Satan and these angels were in heaven next to God, 289 00:17:31,660 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 2: with God, in his presence? but they turn evil, jealous, deceitful, 290 00:17:36,660 --> 00:17:38,390 Speaker 2: all of those things of that nature. 291 00:17:39,830 --> 00:17:40,910 Speaker 1: And also for. 292 00:17:40,830 --> 00:17:43,470 Speaker 2: Me personally, when it comes to this, right, this is 293 00:17:43,790 --> 00:17:45,149 Speaker 2: what bothers my mind as well. 294 00:17:45,730 --> 00:17:49,149 Speaker 5: I believe it's in a story somewhere in 1 Samuel maybe, 295 00:17:49,290 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 5: or I'm not sure, I'm not a theologian, but I 296 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:55,859 Speaker 5: think it's a story with Job, I believe, where God 297 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,420 Speaker 5: talks to them and he's telling them like. 298 00:17:59,460 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 2: Hey, this is my child and I don't think that 299 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:03,790 Speaker 2: you can affect him? 300 00:18:04,090 --> 00:18:05,990 Speaker 1: And he said, you could do. 301 00:18:07,270 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 5: X, Y, and Z, but it's fair as life. 302 00:18:10,100 --> 00:18:12,140 Speaker 2: Which, in my mind, kind of took me to like, 303 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:14,680 Speaker 2: is he giving him power? 304 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: You know what I mean, of a certain extent. 305 00:18:16,780 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 2: And so, how did God create all good as well 306 00:18:21,500 --> 00:18:23,350 Speaker 2: as create the evil? 307 00:18:24,650 --> 00:18:27,050 Speaker 1: That's a great question. By the way, if you're having, 308 00:18:27,130 --> 00:18:29,450 Speaker 1: first off, kudos to you for having conversations with a 309 00:18:29,470 --> 00:18:32,310 Speaker 1: non-Christian about what you believe. Somebody asks you something, you 310 00:18:32,330 --> 00:18:34,990 Speaker 1: don't know the answer, you just say, great question. I 311 00:18:35,260 --> 00:18:36,899 Speaker 1: don't know the answer. Let me look it up and 312 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: get back to you. That's how you learn. That's how 313 00:18:39,020 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 1: you grow. My dad said to me, it's fine to 314 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 1: say you don't know an answer once, but don't do 315 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,180 Speaker 1: it twice. Then you go try to find an answer. 316 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 1: And I've tried to do that for the most part 317 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,290 Speaker 1: of my life. Now, does Satan have some power? Yeah. 318 00:18:53,190 --> 00:18:55,550 Speaker 1: One of the temptations we see, what does Satan do? 319 00:18:56,250 --> 00:18:58,869 Speaker 1: He brings Jesus up and says, I will give you 320 00:18:59,970 --> 00:19:03,450 Speaker 1: all of this. it kind of implies that God at 321 00:19:03,510 --> 00:19:08,350 Speaker 1: least conceded and has given some power to Satan. He's 322 00:19:08,390 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: considered the ruler of the air. Now, he's a created being, 323 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,420 Speaker 1: and his power is less than God. But God has 324 00:19:16,460 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 1: given him some power. So how could Satan be in 325 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: heaven with God with things that are good and turn 326 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:28,699 Speaker 1: away from God? Now, when the Bible doesn't directly answer 327 00:19:28,830 --> 00:19:32,379 Speaker 1: a question... And it doesn't actually tell us this. The 328 00:19:32,420 --> 00:19:38,220 Speaker 1: best guess that people have held throughout church history is 329 00:19:38,260 --> 00:19:42,090 Speaker 1: that Satan was like an angel-type figure in heaven, rebelled 330 00:19:42,150 --> 00:19:47,109 Speaker 1: against God. That comes from Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28. 331 00:19:47,109 --> 00:19:50,899 Speaker 1: But it's prophetic type language, and it doesn't tell us 332 00:19:50,940 --> 00:19:55,260 Speaker 1: that explicitly. So that's the most reasonable account. But we 333 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:59,970 Speaker 1: do know that God doesn't create evil, and Satan is evil. 334 00:20:00,030 --> 00:20:03,090 Speaker 1: So at some point, he's a created being that did 335 00:20:03,170 --> 00:20:05,570 Speaker 1: turn against God and rebel against him at some point. 336 00:20:06,060 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: So how did he do this? Again, when the Bible 337 00:20:07,580 --> 00:20:09,869 Speaker 1: doesn't answer, you kind of got to say, here's the 338 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,990 Speaker 1: best I can do to piece this together. And I 339 00:20:13,030 --> 00:20:18,050 Speaker 1: think I would say, once God makes beings who have agency, 340 00:20:18,730 --> 00:20:24,340 Speaker 1: who have choice, these beings, regardless of their environments, can 341 00:20:24,390 --> 00:20:27,780 Speaker 1: look around and make a decision of what they think 342 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: is best for themselves and whether they want to listen 343 00:20:31,340 --> 00:20:35,439 Speaker 1: to another being or not. That's what it means to 344 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,139 Speaker 1: be an agent and to be a being. And probably 345 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:40,340 Speaker 1: all of us can think of examples in our life. 346 00:20:40,460 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: We look at somebody and we're like, you literally had 347 00:20:43,900 --> 00:20:49,100 Speaker 1: everything and still chose the opposite. Like, what's a matter 348 00:20:49,540 --> 00:20:53,380 Speaker 1: with you? So I think if God makes angel a being, 349 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:57,530 Speaker 1: I think angels at least originally, because they're persons, they're 350 00:20:57,550 --> 00:21:01,889 Speaker 1: not animals, at least originally had some free will to 351 00:21:01,930 --> 00:21:06,260 Speaker 1: be obedient to God. or to rebel satan was made 352 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: as a being looked around thought you know maybe this 353 00:21:10,100 --> 00:21:11,850 Speaker 1: is better for me than somebody else telling me how 354 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,590 Speaker 1: to live and rebelled against god i think there's something 355 00:21:15,770 --> 00:21:19,890 Speaker 1: plausible about that now the next question is okay well 356 00:21:19,910 --> 00:21:21,490 Speaker 1: then wait a minute then if we go to heaven 357 00:21:22,670 --> 00:21:24,530 Speaker 1: i knew you were going to ask this next then 358 00:21:24,690 --> 00:21:27,700 Speaker 1: how do we know we are not going to rebel 359 00:21:28,930 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 1: Here's the key difference. And people would ask the question 360 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: this way. They'll say, well, if we're going to be 361 00:21:33,619 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: in heaven and not lose our salvation and leave heaven, 362 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: why didn't God just make that to begin with so 363 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,419 Speaker 1: nobody rebelled against him? And I think my answer is 364 00:21:42,940 --> 00:21:44,889 Speaker 1: he couldn't have done that. So maybe this is a 365 00:21:44,900 --> 00:21:47,629 Speaker 1: crass analogy, but it came from one of my favorite philosophers. 366 00:21:48,109 --> 00:21:50,580 Speaker 1: He said, I will no more sin in heaven. Then 367 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:51,659 Speaker 1: if you said to me, you know what, I want 368 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: to serve you lunch and it's dog poop, it's like 369 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,060 Speaker 1: there is zero chance I'm eating that. No appeal to me. 370 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:02,060 Speaker 1: That pales in comparison to how odious sin will be 371 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,050 Speaker 1: in heaven. So when Jesus, and I'm paraphrasing, when Jesus 372 00:22:05,090 --> 00:22:06,889 Speaker 1: is on the cross and he's talking to the criminal 373 00:22:06,910 --> 00:22:09,410 Speaker 1: next to him, the repentant criminal, and says, you will 374 00:22:09,450 --> 00:22:12,090 Speaker 1: be with me in paradise today. 375 00:22:13,990 --> 00:22:15,030 Speaker 4: But then in Revelation. 376 00:22:16,290 --> 00:22:16,969 Speaker 1: It's at the. 377 00:22:16,970 --> 00:22:18,010 Speaker 4: Second coming of Christ. 378 00:22:18,030 --> 00:22:20,350 Speaker 3: It says the dead in Christ will rise. 379 00:22:21,210 --> 00:22:23,770 Speaker 2: So basically, where do we go as soon as we die? 380 00:22:24,109 --> 00:22:26,910 Speaker 4: Are we in heaven immediately? 381 00:22:27,330 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: Or does that happen at a later time? Wonderful question. 382 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: So when we die, Jesus was right. And of course, 383 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:37,860 Speaker 1: he's always right. I don't even need to preface that. 384 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,160 Speaker 1: That the man who died on the cross, the thief, 385 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:44,170 Speaker 1: would be with him today in paradise. So you're a 386 00:22:44,170 --> 00:22:48,090 Speaker 1: believer in Jesus and you die. We're with God in paradise. 387 00:22:48,770 --> 00:22:53,050 Speaker 1: What Revelation is talking about is the new heavens and 388 00:22:53,070 --> 00:22:57,940 Speaker 1: the new earth. When Jesus comes back, what's going to happen? 389 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: These are the last two chapters of Revelation. Then we 390 00:23:02,020 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: have a new creation that is made. And it talks 391 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 1: about Jerusalem coming down and the pearly gates and the 392 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,410 Speaker 1: gold and everything. That's the new heavens and the new earth. 393 00:23:12,450 --> 00:23:14,890 Speaker 1: So people right now, you might say, are in God's presence. 394 00:23:14,990 --> 00:23:19,020 Speaker 1: It's beautiful. It's amazing. We are waiting for Jesus to 395 00:23:19,100 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: come back and return, end sin once and for all, 396 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,260 Speaker 1: and then make the new heavens and the new earth. 397 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,510 Speaker 1: Those new heavens and new earth will be physical, by 398 00:23:30,550 --> 00:23:34,130 Speaker 1: the way. We're not just spirits floating up in whatever. 399 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: It is creation renewed, kind of like God intended in 400 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,300 Speaker 1: the first two chapters of the Bible, Genesis 1 and 401 00:23:41,820 --> 00:23:45,500 Speaker 1: Genesis chapter 2. So we die, we're in God's presence. 402 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,070 Speaker 1: At some point in the future, Jesus is going to 403 00:23:48,109 --> 00:23:50,290 Speaker 1: come back and make the new heavens and the new 404 00:23:50,369 --> 00:24:04,350 Speaker 1: earth and transform creation. Great question. Oh, that's a great question. 405 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 1: I think we can know Christ is risen two ways. 406 00:24:08,020 --> 00:24:11,590 Speaker 1: I really believe if somebody gets into the scriptures and 407 00:24:11,700 --> 00:24:15,510 Speaker 1: reads the gospels, which are the word of God and 408 00:24:15,570 --> 00:24:19,570 Speaker 1: contain God's power, I think God can speak to us 409 00:24:19,710 --> 00:24:23,830 Speaker 1: directly and give us confidence that this is true. Now, 410 00:24:24,609 --> 00:24:27,470 Speaker 1: how do we know it historically? Historically? Like, is there 411 00:24:27,590 --> 00:24:31,610 Speaker 1: evidence outside of an experience for the Bible? And this 412 00:24:31,710 --> 00:24:34,450 Speaker 1: is where I teach a whole class, a graduate class 413 00:24:34,570 --> 00:24:38,260 Speaker 1: over a semester, on the evidence for the resurrection. So 414 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: I'll try to give you the quickest response I can give. 415 00:24:42,100 --> 00:24:46,260 Speaker 1: Historians as a whole will agree that there are certain 416 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:52,420 Speaker 1: facts around the life of Jesus that are so well corroborated, 417 00:24:53,140 --> 00:24:56,830 Speaker 1: you can't ignore them. So certain facts are like that 418 00:24:56,890 --> 00:25:01,490 Speaker 1: Jesus lived, that Jesus was crucified. And by the way, 419 00:25:01,530 --> 00:25:03,570 Speaker 1: how do we really know Jesus was crucified? First off, 420 00:25:03,590 --> 00:25:06,170 Speaker 1: we have four Gospels. We have the other letters in 421 00:25:06,190 --> 00:25:10,869 Speaker 1: the New Testament. We have early church historians. We have Josephus, 422 00:25:10,890 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: a Jew at the end of the first century. Tacitus, 423 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: a Roman early second century, all confirm that Jesus was crucified. 424 00:25:17,670 --> 00:25:19,530 Speaker 1: By the way, if you're trying to start a movement 425 00:25:19,550 --> 00:25:25,130 Speaker 1: with a Messiah, do you invent the most shameful, dishonorable 426 00:25:25,260 --> 00:25:30,159 Speaker 1: death imaginable for your alleged Messiah? Of course not. It 427 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:34,300 Speaker 1: makes no sense. So we know Jesus lived when he 428 00:25:34,340 --> 00:25:38,220 Speaker 1: was crucified. We actually have really good evidence that Jesus 429 00:25:38,260 --> 00:25:40,990 Speaker 1: was buried. Have you ever thought about the fact that 430 00:25:41,030 --> 00:25:43,490 Speaker 1: we know the name of the person who buried Jesus, 431 00:25:43,550 --> 00:25:49,510 Speaker 1: and it was Joseph of... Arimatheus, so we know his name, 432 00:25:50,090 --> 00:25:53,710 Speaker 1: we know where he's from, we know his economic status, 433 00:25:54,250 --> 00:25:59,590 Speaker 1: he was wealthy, he's a religious leader, we're given a 434 00:25:59,730 --> 00:26:04,300 Speaker 1: lot of details of the burial of Jesus in multiple accounts, 435 00:26:05,150 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 1: and there's no other early competing accounts. By the way, again, 436 00:26:10,580 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: if the Gospels are going to invent an honorable burial, 437 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: Why would they pick somebody from the Sanhedrin who put 438 00:26:18,700 --> 00:26:23,070 Speaker 1: Jesus to death to give him an honorable burial? Do 439 00:26:23,090 --> 00:26:27,630 Speaker 1: you see why they wouldn't invent that? So Jesus lived, crucified, 440 00:26:27,730 --> 00:26:32,530 Speaker 1: he's buried. We actually have 21 arguments. I won't give 441 00:26:32,570 --> 00:26:34,709 Speaker 1: you all the arguments that the tomb of Jesus was 442 00:26:34,770 --> 00:26:39,130 Speaker 1: found empty. 21 arguments. I'll give you a couple. All 443 00:26:39,170 --> 00:26:42,350 Speaker 1: the gospels report that the empty tomb was discovered by who? 444 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 1: By marrying the women, right? Discovered by the women. Now, 445 00:26:47,180 --> 00:26:51,820 Speaker 1: why is that significant? In that culture, a woman's testimony 446 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,859 Speaker 1: was not considered as significant as a man's. It was 447 00:26:55,920 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: a patriarchal culture. Men were more educated. They wouldn't invent it. 448 00:27:01,590 --> 00:27:04,850 Speaker 1: It would be counterproductive to their message. Now, to get 449 00:27:04,869 --> 00:27:08,570 Speaker 1: a risen Jesus, you have to have an empty tomb. 450 00:27:09,570 --> 00:27:13,270 Speaker 1: So why invent that women discovered the empty tomb if 451 00:27:13,310 --> 00:27:16,330 Speaker 1: you want anybody to believe this? By the way, if 452 00:27:16,369 --> 00:27:20,750 Speaker 1: the men are writing the narrative, men are men across cultures, 453 00:27:20,770 --> 00:27:22,690 Speaker 1: they're certainly not going to make up a story. Yeah, 454 00:27:22,730 --> 00:27:24,889 Speaker 1: we were confused and cowards and the women were the heroes. 455 00:27:25,210 --> 00:27:28,690 Speaker 1: Are you with me on this? That's one argument. A 456 00:27:28,750 --> 00:27:31,950 Speaker 1: second argument that's really interesting is in what city was 457 00:27:32,010 --> 00:27:38,689 Speaker 1: Jesus crucified? Jerusalem. 50 days later, that's what Pentecost is. 458 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:45,460 Speaker 1: Pente for five tens. Fifty days later, where did the 459 00:27:45,500 --> 00:27:54,129 Speaker 1: Christian movement begin? Jerusalem. Now, Jesus was publicly crucified and 460 00:27:54,190 --> 00:27:58,330 Speaker 1: put in a known man's tomb. If these events were 461 00:27:58,369 --> 00:28:02,010 Speaker 1: not true and they made it up, Where would be 462 00:28:02,050 --> 00:28:05,750 Speaker 1: the most difficult city on the planet to invent a 463 00:28:05,830 --> 00:28:08,530 Speaker 1: movement of an empty tomb and a resurrected Christ if 464 00:28:08,570 --> 00:28:12,330 Speaker 1: it weren't true? Jerusalem. They don't go to Corinth. They 465 00:28:12,350 --> 00:28:18,030 Speaker 1: don't go to Egypt. They go right back to Jerusalem. Minimally, 466 00:28:18,070 --> 00:28:21,699 Speaker 1: that shows a lot of confidence in their story. Third 467 00:28:21,859 --> 00:28:24,880 Speaker 1: evidence for the empty tomb is what's the first story 468 00:28:24,900 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 1: that's told by the religious leaders to explain away the 469 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:31,659 Speaker 1: empty tomb? Then what happens? Disciples stole the body. I 470 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,090 Speaker 1: want you to think about this for a second. If 471 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,229 Speaker 1: they say the disciples stole the body, what are they 472 00:28:38,270 --> 00:28:41,110 Speaker 1: conceding about the state of the body and the tomb? 473 00:28:42,310 --> 00:28:46,670 Speaker 1: It's empty. You don't say the disciples stole something if 474 00:28:46,750 --> 00:28:51,310 Speaker 1: you have the body to produce. The very claim that 475 00:28:51,330 --> 00:28:54,580 Speaker 1: the disciples stole the body actually shows the tomb is empty. 476 00:28:55,540 --> 00:28:57,500 Speaker 1: So ask me how we know Jesus rose from the grave. 477 00:28:57,820 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: We know Jesus lived. We know he's crucified. We have 478 00:29:01,580 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: really good evidence he's buried. We have good evidence for 479 00:29:04,340 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: an empty tomb. And then we have multiple accounts of 480 00:29:09,260 --> 00:29:13,830 Speaker 1: appearances of Jesus. Now we have appearance to the 500. 481 00:29:13,810 --> 00:29:18,030 Speaker 1: We have appearances to the 12. We have appearance to 482 00:29:18,070 --> 00:29:21,910 Speaker 1: those without Thomas, and then the appearance to Thomas. You 483 00:29:21,930 --> 00:29:23,690 Speaker 1: might be saying, well, these are all believers. Friends, we 484 00:29:23,730 --> 00:29:25,969 Speaker 1: have at least two that were not believers Jesus appeared to. 485 00:29:26,070 --> 00:29:30,700 Speaker 1: One was James, the brother of Jesus. John 7 and 486 00:29:30,740 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: Mark 3, his family did not believe in him during 487 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:38,350 Speaker 1: his lifetime. James becomes the leader of the church in Jerusalem. 488 00:29:38,410 --> 00:29:42,890 Speaker 1: Just read Acts chapter 12. and into chapter 15. What 489 00:29:42,930 --> 00:29:49,850 Speaker 1: about Paul? Paul was persecuting Christians. We have Paul in 490 00:29:49,890 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: his own words saying Jesus appeared to him. And by 491 00:29:52,630 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: the way, 2 Corinthians chapter 11, what's Paul willing to do? Shipwrecked, beaten, persecuted. 492 00:30:00,300 --> 00:30:15,450 Speaker 1: refuses to recant Christ. So, Jesus lived, crucified, buried, tomb 493 00:30:15,490 --> 00:30:19,770 Speaker 1: is empty, multiple appearance counts. The last thing I'll say, 494 00:30:19,790 --> 00:30:24,500 Speaker 1: is I actually did my doctoral dissertation on this, my PhD, 495 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: is the apostles are willing to suffer and die for 496 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: the belief that they had seen the risen Jesus. Most 497 00:30:35,460 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: people aren't willing to walk across the street for what 498 00:30:37,550 --> 00:30:42,790 Speaker 1: they believe. They were willing to suffer and die for it. 499 00:30:43,930 --> 00:30:47,230 Speaker 1: You say, well, wait a minute. What about 9-11? 15 500 00:30:47,710 --> 00:30:50,750 Speaker 1: Muslims willingly died for their beliefs. Friends, here's the difference. 501 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,780 Speaker 1: People will not die. People will die for what they 502 00:30:55,820 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: believe is true. But no one will die for a 503 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:06,790 Speaker 1: known lie. The 15 Muslims who died on 9-11 were 504 00:31:07,030 --> 00:31:12,810 Speaker 1: minimally 1,300-1,400 years removed from the time of Muhammad. The 505 00:31:12,850 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: apostles traveled with and saw and knew Jesus personally. So 506 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,260 Speaker 1: if it weren't true, they were willing to suffer and 507 00:31:24,300 --> 00:31:30,910 Speaker 1: die for something they knew personally. was false that's hard 508 00:31:30,990 --> 00:31:34,770 Speaker 1: to believe so does that make sense i think we 509 00:31:34,810 --> 00:31:37,930 Speaker 1: have good historical evidence jesus has risen from the grave 510 00:31:38,410 --> 00:31:40,860 Speaker 1: now the skeptic can't say i just don't believe you 511 00:31:41,540 --> 00:31:44,460 Speaker 1: what the skeptic has to do is say given these 512 00:31:44,540 --> 00:31:49,420 Speaker 1: known facts i'm going to give another narrative that explains 513 00:31:49,460 --> 00:31:53,220 Speaker 1: why people believed jesus had risen and explains the origin 514 00:31:53,270 --> 00:31:57,780 Speaker 1: of the church There's no convincing narrative that can account 515 00:31:57,820 --> 00:32:00,590 Speaker 1: for all the details. One quick one and say, well, 516 00:32:00,610 --> 00:32:07,010 Speaker 1: the apostles hallucinated. Well, who can tell me of the 517 00:32:07,070 --> 00:32:11,390 Speaker 1: facts that I gave, which would hallucinations, if that accounts 518 00:32:11,430 --> 00:32:13,630 Speaker 1: for their belief she had arisen, which fact would that 519 00:32:13,690 --> 00:32:18,930 Speaker 1: not account for? Well, the 500 is interesting. But of 520 00:32:18,970 --> 00:32:23,050 Speaker 1: the specific facts that I gave, which would not be 521 00:32:23,090 --> 00:32:30,270 Speaker 1: explained away by hallucinations? empty tomb. So if they hallucinated, 522 00:32:30,290 --> 00:32:32,590 Speaker 1: the body would still be in the tomb. And by 523 00:32:32,630 --> 00:32:35,209 Speaker 1: the way, if they hallucinated, how do you get Paul 524 00:32:35,230 --> 00:32:37,690 Speaker 1: who wasn't one of the 12? And how do you 525 00:32:37,710 --> 00:32:40,550 Speaker 1: get James who wasn't one of the 12? So you 526 00:32:40,570 --> 00:32:42,990 Speaker 1: can come up with these theories that account for a 527 00:32:43,030 --> 00:32:46,290 Speaker 1: few of the facts, but there's no theory that accounts 528 00:32:46,370 --> 00:32:50,750 Speaker 1: for all the facts unless you believe Jesus has risen 529 00:32:50,790 --> 00:32:53,650 Speaker 1: from the grave. I think the main reason a lot 530 00:32:53,670 --> 00:32:55,500 Speaker 1: of people don't want to believe it It's because you 531 00:32:55,540 --> 00:32:57,460 Speaker 1: can't just believe Jesus risen from the grave and move 532 00:32:57,500 --> 00:33:01,260 Speaker 1: on with your life. If you really believe that, it 533 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,610 Speaker 1: demands life change, and that means he is Lord and 534 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,250 Speaker 1: Savior of the universe and Lord and Savior of my life. 535 00:33:09,930 --> 00:33:13,330 Speaker 1: Does that help? In the back, in the Tumi study, 536 00:33:13,370 --> 00:33:16,610 Speaker 1: they have a book by Gary Habermas, who is the 537 00:33:16,750 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: world's expert on the Resurrection. That book alone is 700 538 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:25,100 Speaker 1: pages on the evidence for the Resurrection. There's evidence if 539 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,340 Speaker 1: you want to explore and study this and go further. 540 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: But hopefully that's the quickest answer I could give you 541 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 1: with any substance. So I hope that helps. Thank you 542 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:39,660 Speaker 1: so much. Hey, friends, if you enjoyed this show, please 543 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,500 Speaker 1: hit that follow button on your podcast app. Most of 544 00:33:42,540 --> 00:33:44,940 Speaker 1: you tuning in haven't done this yet, and it makes 545 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,740 Speaker 1: a huge difference in helping us reach and equip more 546 00:33:47,810 --> 00:33:51,950 Speaker 1: people and build community. And please consider leaving a podcast review. 547 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: Every review helps. Thanks for listening to The Sean McDowell Show, 548 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: brought to you by Talbot School of Theology at Biola University, 549 00:34:00,020 --> 00:34:04,300 Speaker 1: where we have on-campus and online programs in apologetics, spiritual formation, 550 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,940 Speaker 1: marriage and family, Bible, and so much more. 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