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Speaker 1: Coming up, I'm going to discuss an important question that

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Speaker 1: came right out of the TPUSA conference.

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Speaker 2: Who is an American?

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Speaker 1: Frank Turek, the Christian apologist and speaker, joins me. We're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about Charlie Kirk. We're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about the relationships of men and women.

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Speaker 2: We're also going to.

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Speaker 1: Talk about the true meaning of Jesus and of Christmas. Hey,

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Speaker 1: if you're watching on YouTube ex So Rumble, listening on

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Speaker 1: Apple or Spotify, please subscribe to my channel. This is

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Speaker 1: the Dnesh De SUSA podcast.

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Speaker 3: America needs this voice.

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Speaker 4: The times are crazy and a time of confusion, division

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Speaker 4: and lies. We need a brave voice of reason, understanding

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Speaker 4: and truth.

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Speaker 3: This is the De Suzan Podcast.

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Speaker 1: I've been not all but some excerpts of the TPUSA

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Speaker 1: The Turning Point Annual Conference, and I'd like to comment

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Speaker 1: not so much on the conference as a whole, which

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Speaker 1: covers a very vast territory, lots of speakers from JD Vance, Nicki,

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Speaker 1: Minaj Tucker and Bannon, and the Ben Shapiro and the

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Speaker 1: vek Ramaswami and many many others. But I want to

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Speaker 1: focus in on two issues raised at the conference. Vive's

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Speaker 1: talk about who is an American and also some comments

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Speaker 1: from Tucker about Islam. Maybe I'll start with Tucker first,

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Speaker 1: because it's kind of interesting, isn't it. Tucker's focus has

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Speaker 1: very much been on the influence of Israel and America.

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Speaker 1: We don't want to be captive to a foreign government.

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Speaker 1: Are America first, and we don't need these other burdens

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Speaker 1: and alliances with places like Israel. And one might expect

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Speaker 1: that Tucker would then consistently say, and this is also

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Speaker 1: true about Islam, we don't want Islamic influence in America.

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Speaker 1: We don't want Islamic infiltration of America. We don't need

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Speaker 1: to be making quote alliances with these Islamic countries. They

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Speaker 1: have their own goals of an Islamic society, of Sharia

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Speaker 1: law in some cases of the Caliphate. We certainly don't

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Speaker 1: believe that they put our interests first, and so we

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Speaker 1: might be better to be uncontaminated by either the Jews

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Speaker 1: or the Muslims. And yet this is not in fact

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Speaker 1: Tucker's position. He is set elsewhere we should be allying

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Speaker 1: with Katar. He says they would be a much better

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Speaker 1: ally with than Israel. And so what we see here

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Speaker 1: is that the critique of Israel seems almost automatically to

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Speaker 1: give way to a kind of positive defense of Qatar.

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Speaker 1: Qatar here as a kind of stand in for Islam

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Speaker 1: and a TPUSA. Tucker fulminates against sort of anti Islamic sentiment.

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Speaker 1: He goes, why are we picking on the Muslims? He goes,

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Speaker 1: why are we going after people for their bloodline? This

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Speaker 1: is his word, bloodline. Now, I don't know a single

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Speaker 1: person alive who is going after Muslims for their bloodline.

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Speaker 1: No one is making an ethnic or racial critique of

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Speaker 1: the Muslims. People are going after Muslims because of what

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Speaker 1: they do and in some cases what they believe, and

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Speaker 1: in other cases what they profess, and in other cases

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Speaker 1: what they threaten. So it is the actions of these

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Speaker 1: Islamic radicals that is the prime driving force for what

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Speaker 1: Tucker seems to regard as quote Islamophobia. And it's particularly

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Speaker 1: odd it seems to me right in the aftermath of

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Speaker 1: this Bondai Beach attack, which was a terrible attack on

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Speaker 1: a small country. Australia is a large country physically, but

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Speaker 1: a small country in population, and so it almost seems

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Speaker 1: like every major Western country is experiencing kind of its

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Speaker 1: own nine to eleven. Of course, we had it on

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Speaker 1: September eleven, two thousand and one. Israel had its nine

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Speaker 1: to eleven on October seventh. Now, in a sense, you

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Speaker 1: could say Australia has had its nine to eleven. And

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Speaker 1: here is Tucker calling for us to worry about getting

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Speaker 1: too harsh with the Muslims, speaking out against the Muslims

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Speaker 1: and against Islamic influence, which Tucker is I think falsely

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Speaker 1: portraying as some kind of racist critique of their quote Bloodline. Now,

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Speaker 1: on a much higher level and more interesting intellectually, Vivek

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Speaker 1: Ramaswami raised the issue of who is an American. And

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Speaker 1: one could say that there are two positions in this debate,

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Speaker 1: Vivek position and the heritage American position. And I want

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Speaker 1: to contrast these two to make a kind of middle

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Speaker 1: position that I think is the right way to think

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Speaker 1: about all this. So one position, the position associated with Vivek.

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Speaker 1: He didn't exactly say this, but this is how he

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Speaker 1: is understood to be speaking, is that to be an American,

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Speaker 1: it is a matter of creed, it's a matter of belief,

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Speaker 1: it's a matter of subscribing to American principles, embracing the

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Speaker 1: Constitution and intellectually affirming the American way of life. You

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Speaker 1: could say that being American is like in the mind.

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Speaker 1: And I myself have written somewhat in this mode before,

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Speaker 1: made the point for example, and this is the point

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Speaker 1: Reagan also made in his own way. You can go

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Speaker 1: to France, live there for a long time. You can't

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Speaker 1: become a Frenchman. You can go to India, live there

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Speaker 1: for a long time, you can't become Indian. But you

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Speaker 1: can come to America and become an American. You become

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Speaker 1: an American not as a function of birth or blood,

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Speaker 1: but as a function of embracing certain ideals. Now, the

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Speaker 1: counter argument to all that is pretty simple, and that

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Speaker 1: is America is not just an idea. It is an idea,

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Speaker 1: but it's also an actual place, and it's a place

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Speaker 1: that has a history, and it has people who came

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Speaker 1: here sometimes going back a very long time ago, four

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Speaker 1: hundred years ago, if you want to go back to

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Speaker 1: the Mayflower or the first settlers, certainly two hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty years ago, if you go back to the founding.

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Speaker 1: So people came here and they shaped America, but they

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Speaker 1: were also shaped by America. And we have in America

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Speaker 1: all these American kind of folk ways, and that those

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Speaker 1: also defied what it means to be an American. It's

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Speaker 1: not just a matter of subscribing to certain ideas. In fact,

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Speaker 1: think of it this way. Let's take a guy who's

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Speaker 1: living right now, or let's take let's take India. They're

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Speaker 1: probably twenty five million Indians right now in India who

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Speaker 1: like America. They subscribe to the American dream, they believe

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Speaker 1: in the American Constitution. But does that automatically quote make

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Speaker 1: them American. Would be automatically a good idea to bring

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Speaker 1: those twenty five million people here, because they're just as

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Speaker 1: American as everybody else. And conversely, let's take an American

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Speaker 1: who lives here now, and let's say that he generally

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Speaker 1: he's an American. He eats apple pie and celebrates the

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Speaker 1: fourth of July. But let's say he disagrees with some

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Speaker 1: elements of the Constitution. He thinks that the Constitution could

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Speaker 1: use some helpful amendments. He's not sure the founders were

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Speaker 1: right about everything. He in that sense, does not subscribe

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Speaker 1: to the principle of America. And yet here he is,

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Speaker 1: his family has been here for generations. Is he less

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Speaker 1: of an American than those Indian guys in India? One

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Speaker 1: would be reluctant to say that. And therefore it seems

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Speaker 1: to me that we need a kind of middleway to

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Speaker 1: think about this problem. And the middle way.

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Speaker 2: Is simply this.

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Speaker 1: Yes, America is, to a larger degree than any other culture,

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Speaker 1: a credal nation. It is open in principle to people

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Speaker 1: from all over the world. And yet becoming an American

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Speaker 1: is not something that happens merely by subscribing to ideas.

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Speaker 1: It happens over time by living here, being here, being

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Speaker 1: part of the culture, assimilating, but in some ways also

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Speaker 1: having your own impact on shaping the culture, becoming part

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Speaker 1: of those American folk ways, and being at home in

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Speaker 1: those folk ways, so that ultimately America becomes a club

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Speaker 1: that you don't just quote want to join. You don't

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Speaker 1: just subscribe to its charter or its founding principles. You

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Speaker 1: actually do become a member of the club. You do

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Speaker 1: live by its rules. I mean, think of a normal club.

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Speaker 1: You're a member not just because you agreed with the charter,

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Speaker 1: but it's because you swim in the pool and you

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Speaker 1: play racquetball, and you go to the annual banquet, and

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Speaker 1: you're part of the sort of living culture of that society.

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Speaker 1: If you look at my own example, this.

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Speaker 2: Is what happened to me.

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Speaker 1: I would say that I became a believer in American

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Speaker 1: ideals long before I became an American. I subscribed to

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Speaker 1: those ideals. I was excited about becoming an American. I

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Speaker 1: took the oath of citizenship in nineteen ninety one, and

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Speaker 1: I was assimilated to a considerable degree because I'd been

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Speaker 1: in the country then over a decade. But I would

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Speaker 1: say I'm not as assimilated. I wasn't as assimilated then

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Speaker 1: as I am now. So for me, becoming a full

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Speaker 1: part of the folk ways of America has been something

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Speaker 1: a lifelong project. It takes time because there is a

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Speaker 1: period you can't deny when you are somewhat intermediate between

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Speaker 1: the old culture that you left and the new America

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Speaker 1: that you are part of. You are not no man's

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Speaker 1: land where're you cease to be fully Indian, but you're

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Speaker 1: not fully American. So this is the reality of the

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Speaker 1: immigrants journey. And so I want to say that I

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Speaker 1: think that Vivek is right to be celebrating the creedal

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Speaker 1: aspect of the American dream. And yet there is a

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Speaker 1: lot of truth in the idea that being an American

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Speaker 1: isn't just an idea. It is more than that, it

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Speaker 1: is also a lived experience. Since nineteen seventy one, the

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Speaker 1: year the US got off the gold standard, inflation has

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Speaker 1: averaged three point nine to eight percent per year.

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Speaker 2: That's the official figure, which the government manipulates.

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Speaker 1: But even so, it reveals that if you start out

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Speaker 1: with a dollar in nineteen seventy one, that money keeps

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Speaker 1: dropping in value and purchasing power. In fact, one dollar

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Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy one is now worth about twelve cents.

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Speaker 1: That's crazy. How does this happen? It's because the government

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Speaker 1: continually prints money. When more money chases the same amount

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Speaker 1: of goods and service as well, money goes down in value.

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Speaker 1: And because the money printing isn't stopping, we know our

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Speaker 1: dollars are going to go down down toward zero every

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Speaker 1: single time. Now the government can't print gold. Gold has

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Speaker 1: been money for thousands of years. Today, gold is a

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Speaker 1: valuable protection against the ongoing depreciation of the dollar. Any

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Speaker 1: surprise and announce of gold worth around forty four dollars

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Speaker 1: and forty cents and nineteen seventy one is today worth

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Speaker 1: around four thousand dollars. I own gold is a long

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Speaker 1: exploring Israel, where thousands of years of history are on display,

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Speaker 1: and embarking on a journey that changes the way you

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Speaker 2: This is Denesh.

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Speaker 1: Tsuza inviting you to join me and New York Times

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Speaker 1: bestselling author Jonathan Kahn for The Dragon's Prophecy Israel Tour

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Speaker 1: December seventh through sixteen, twenty twenty six. For ten unforgettable days,

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Speaker 1: You'll discover the best of Israel. You'll walk the stone

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Speaker 1: streets of Jerusalem, pray at the Western Wall, sail the

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Speaker 1: Sea of Gas, stand on the Mount of Olives, Visit

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Speaker 1: ancient sites that confirm the Biblical prophecies and the Jewish

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Speaker 1: people's history.

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Speaker 2: In this land.

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Speaker 1: Jonathan conn and I will speak, will open the scriptures

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Speaker 1: in the very places you've read about for years, connecting

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Speaker 1: the archaeological record with Biblical prophecy and what's happening in

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Speaker 1: guy who has been sort of sharing the stage over

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Speaker 1: the years with me and others in the field of

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Speaker 1: Christian apologetics. It's Frank Turek. He is the president of

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Speaker 1: cross examine dot org. He's a dynamic speaker, award winning

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Speaker 1: Doctor d R. Frank Turek, t u ri e K.

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Speaker 1: The website is cross Examined dot org. Frank, Welcome. I've

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Speaker 1: been looking forward to this and thank you, thank you

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Speaker 1: very much for joining me. I want to begin by

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Speaker 1: asking you for some post mortem or some analysis of

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Speaker 1: the big TPUSA event that is just either concluded or

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Speaker 1: wrapping up. I've been watching excerpts of the various presentations

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Speaker 1: and what is your take on how what the atmosphere

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Speaker 1: was like this year in the aftermath, of course of

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Speaker 1: Charlie's tragic dav Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Well, thank you, Denesh, and blessings to you this Christmas.

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Speaker 5: One thing that nobody can deny tp USA is the fact.

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Speaker 3: That they know how to run events.

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Speaker 5: To Nesh, this organation is one of the finest, the

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Speaker 5: finest I've ever witnessed, especially when it comes to events.

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Speaker 5: It was phenomenal, like they all are. Despite the fact

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Speaker 5: that staff has been in mourning for three and a

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Speaker 5: half months rightfully so. Erica, despite the fact she's being

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Speaker 5: slandered and accused without evidence, is steady as a rock.

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Speaker 5: Even though it's behind the scenes she's in. It's been brutal.

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Speaker 5: You can only imagine. Denesh. Let me just say the

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Speaker 5: event was wonderfully done. And as conservatives, we can disagree

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Speaker 5: over things and argue them out and you probably saw

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Speaker 5: some of that going on. Although let me say this,

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Speaker 5: and I think of course you would agree that you

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Speaker 5: Hatred is not a conservative value, and neither are slanderous

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Speaker 5: conspiracy theories that have no evidence behind them. These are

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Speaker 5: not things we want to conserve. These are things that

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Speaker 5: we should reject. And Jesus and Bible writers describe Satan

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Speaker 5: as a murderer, liar, thelanderer.

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Speaker 3: And accuser.

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Speaker 5: In the past three and a half months, we had

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Speaker 5: a murder, and since then we've had slander, accusations and lies.

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Speaker 5: This is straight from the pit of hell. But despite that,

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Speaker 5: TPUSA is going strong and they know how to bring

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Speaker 5: people together. And I thought Vice President Vance yesterday was

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Speaker 5: very firm and what he said and pointed out that

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Speaker 5: the conservatives are the future of this nation, as they

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Speaker 5: should be.

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Speaker 3: We need to conserve what is right, true and good.

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Speaker 5: It's harder, as you know, Denesh, to build things than

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Speaker 5: it is to tear them down. What the left wants

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Speaker 5: to do is tear things down. What we want to

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Speaker 5: do is build. So let's pray we can continue to

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Speaker 5: do that.

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Speaker 1: Frank, those were some very you know, stern and firm

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Speaker 1: words from you about division, about slander, about anti Semitism.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, do you think that the

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Speaker 1: you're very close to TPUSA. You were up there on stage,

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Speaker 1: I was at the funeral for Charlie, and you gave

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Speaker 1: a I mean a marvelous and I would say almost

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Speaker 1: inspired call to call to faith, called for people to

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Speaker 1: accept Jesus Christ. But do you think that these kind

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Speaker 1: of two key principles one is, let's call it the

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Speaker 1: the anti anti Semitic principle, and the other one is

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Speaker 1: the kind of anti vicious slander principle. Do you think

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Speaker 1: that those are institutionally ensconced to TPUSA, that the organization

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Speaker 1: as a whole is firmly behind those two principles.

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Speaker 3: I think yes, that.

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Speaker 5: The folks at TPUSA obviously are against you hatred. That

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Speaker 5: was Charlie's term, by the way, because anti Semitism is

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Speaker 5: too broad.

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Speaker 3: But this idea of jew.

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Speaker 5: Hatred is something that I think Charlie certainly he coined

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Speaker 5: the phrase jew hatred. There's no place for it because

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Speaker 5: technically everybody's a semi including the Palestinians, you know. I mean,

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Speaker 5: what it means now is jew hatred essentially, But just

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Speaker 5: just to be very clear. On the other hand, though,

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Speaker 5: there is a very firm commitment to free speech, and

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Speaker 5: so that's why Erica decided that she was not going

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Speaker 5: to disinvite somebody that her husband invited, even though her

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Speaker 5: husband may have disagreed with a certain speaker on certain things.

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Speaker 3: It's better to.

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Speaker 5: Air all that out, let us debate those as intelligent

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Speaker 5: human beings and see where the truth falls. And so

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Speaker 5: that's what they decided to do. And I support that.

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Speaker 5: And I don't work for TPUs say I'm not an employee.

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Speaker 5: I'm just I was just a friend of Charlie. I'm

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Speaker 5: a friend of Erica and a friend of so many

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Speaker 5: of the people there.

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Speaker 2: Frank, let me ask you this.

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Speaker 1: There was such a hopeful mood even though Charlie's memorial

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Speaker 1: was such are in a way an event of morning,

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Speaker 1: but it was also oddly enough and maybe appropriately enough,

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Speaker 1: a celebration, a celebration of Charlie's life and what he

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Speaker 1: stood for, and also a lot of very explicit sort

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Speaker 1: of calls to revival. I was struck by, you know,

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Speaker 1: a procession of figures from the cabinet and from the

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Speaker 1: administration talking in very explicit terms about Jesus and about revival.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that that mood of revival is coming?

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Speaker 2: Is it here?

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Speaker 1: Some people say, you know, it's been kind of soiled

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Speaker 1: by this acrimonious division on the right. How do you

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Speaker 1: read our cultural moment today in the aftermath of Charlie's assassination.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a great question, and I don't have really

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Speaker 5: strong survey data on this, other than to say that

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Speaker 5: even before Charlie was murdered, Bible sales were up, and

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Speaker 5: they're up even more since Charlie's murder. Also that church

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Speaker 5: attendance is up and that younger people are moving in

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Speaker 5: that direction. Whether that continues or not, I'm not a prophet.

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Speaker 5: I don't know. I pray it continues to happen. We've

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Speaker 5: seen at our campus events. We've done several campus events,

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Speaker 5: and we in fact, we did one right one week

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Speaker 5: after Charlie's murder. Not that I wanted to do it,

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Speaker 5: but Charlie would have wanted us to do it, So

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Speaker 5: we went ahead with the events and we edited other events.

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Speaker 5: I've seen a shift on campus in my own events

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Speaker 5: DNESH from more skeptical questions about Christianity to more evangelical questions.

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Speaker 5: What I mean by that is people saying how do

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Speaker 5: I bring my non Christian roommate to Jesus rather than

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Speaker 5: questions that are skeptical of Christianity. I've had far more

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Speaker 5: people eagerly express a desire to bring more people to christ.

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Speaker 3: So that's a good sign.

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Speaker 1: Have you noticed strength on the in this Christian revival

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Speaker 1: that there is a little bit of a kind of

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Speaker 1: fork in the road between the men, the young men,

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Speaker 1: and the young women. And I asked this because I'm

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Speaker 1: picking this up really more off of social media, but

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Speaker 1: not so much in counseling or in spiritual presentations. But

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Speaker 1: I get the impression that the men are pushing more

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Speaker 1: toward orthodoxy, more toward a kind of rigorous and disciplined

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Speaker 1: type of Christianity in a way, more doctrinal, more theological,

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Speaker 1: more anchored in history, and and young women, by contrast,

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Speaker 1: are of in the Evangelical Church very much in the

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Speaker 1: spirit of accepting this, accepting Jesus into my life. It

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Speaker 1: seems to me, and I think you and I know

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Speaker 1: this over the years, that you actually need elements of both. Yes,

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Speaker 1: you need knowledge of history, you need you need theology

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Speaker 1: that goes beyond the personal relationship. And how do you

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Speaker 1: see this sort of gender gap, if I can call

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Speaker 1: it that, inside of the young people's Christian world.

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Speaker 5: Interesting question, Denesh, What I have seen and what Charlie

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Speaker 5: was concerned about just before he died. And I know

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Speaker 5: this because I was with him for the three last

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Speaker 5: three days of his life. On Monday night, September eighth,

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Speaker 5: he and I were together.

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Speaker 3: We were preparing.

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Speaker 5: I was trying to help him prepare for the college tour,

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Speaker 5: and that's why I was with him when he was murdered.

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Speaker 5: But the tune I night prior to that, on the eighth,

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Speaker 5: we went on one of our walk We would have these

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Speaker 5: sessions where we would during the day get together in

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Speaker 5: an office somewhere and try and refine our answers to

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Speaker 5: the most difficult questions related to Christianity or even politics.

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Speaker 5: And after those office sessions, he'd say, hey, after I

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Speaker 5: put Gigi and Mack to bed, why don't we go

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Speaker 5: on a walk. So at night we'd go on these walks,

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Speaker 5: always with an armed bodyguard. We'd walk through the streets

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Speaker 5: of Phoenix. We would talk about difficult issues, and that

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Speaker 5: night we talked about three issues Islam, the Resurrection, and

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Speaker 5: you know, the truth of Christianity. And then another issue

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Speaker 5: that was really on his heart was what you just mentioned,

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Speaker 5: and that is this kind of gender gap. But in

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Speaker 5: the context of the fact that the surveys after the

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Speaker 5: last election, Denesh you may have seen, showed that Trump

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Speaker 5: voting me their number one priority in life was to

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Speaker 5: get married and have kids. Trump voting women, that was

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Speaker 5: number five or six, Paris voting women it was twelve

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Speaker 5: out of thirteen. And Charlie was trying to figure out

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Speaker 5: that night as we're walking, how can I try and

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Speaker 5: get my own generation to accept and want to get

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Speaker 5: married and have children.

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Speaker 3: What can I do?

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Speaker 5: And he was lamenting the fact that he didn't think

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Speaker 5: many women would listen to him because he's a man.

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Speaker 3: What does he know that kind of thing? Right?

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Speaker 5: And we were trying to figure out could we raise

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Speaker 5: up more women to actually give that message that more

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Speaker 5: people would follow, more women would follow and want to

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Speaker 5: get married and have kids, because we don't do that

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Speaker 5: in everything else is academic when it comes to our nation,

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Speaker 5: if we don't replace our own people, if we don't

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Speaker 5: replace Christian with Christians and bring Christians up from childhood,

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Speaker 5: we're going to be overcome by either the left or

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Speaker 5: the far right, the eighth of the Muslims, who are

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Speaker 5: going to take away our freedom of religion. We didn't

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Speaker 5: have an answer that night, Denesh, but thirty hours later,

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Speaker 5: when Charlie was murdered, one very small silver lining that

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Speaker 5: may have come out of it is that a prominent

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Speaker 5: mom was put in the spotlight and her name is

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Speaker 5: Erica Kirk. So we're hoping that Erica can help move

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Speaker 5: that generation to accept marriage, embrace marriage and childbearing.

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Speaker 1: Let me frame, Frank if I made the issue as

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Speaker 1: I see it, and that is that there seems to

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Speaker 1: be a yearning on the part of both young men

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Speaker 1: and women, and these are sort of right of center

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Speaker 1: young men and women to have it the way that

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Speaker 1: not even their parents had it, but maybe the parents

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00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 1: and their great grandparents had it. In other words, they

436
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 1: want a restoration of what I loosely call the traditional.

437
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 2: Way of life.

438
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:13,199
Speaker 1: But of course, in older generations people didn't sort of

439
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: prepare for that. The culture in a sense was catered

440
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: to that people naturally grew into that. You didn't have

441
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: to have discussions about the family. I'm sure that this

442
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: is probably true of your grandfather and mine. They kind

443
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 1: of naturally assumed the roles that they took on. Tradition

444
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 1: in this sense did not need a defense. But we're

445
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 1: now in an odd position where a lot of that

446
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: has been eroded in our society. And so a young

447
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: woman might say, all right, well, you know what, I

448
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: want a traditional man, but they're just not a lot

449
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 1: of those traditional men to be found. And then conversely

450
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: the men say, well, I would like to find a

451
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,640
Speaker 1: traditional woman, but given the way that our culture is,

452
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: there are very few of those to be found. And

453
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 1: so both sides are in a sense fining for something

454
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 1: that's not easy to find.

455
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 5: That's true, And of course the question I want to

456
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 5: ask is where are you looking? You're not going to

457
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 5: probably find that person at a bar. Okay, you might

458
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 5: find them in church, that might be the place you

459
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 5: might want to go, or there are online services that

460
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 5: can help you find that person. I know because my

461
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 5: middle son found his wife online and they dinesh, they're

462
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 5: a ninety nine percent match, and they've been married now

463
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 5: for let's see, nine years, and they have three beautiful kids.

464
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 3: So it can work online. It can.

465
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 5: But you're right there are It's been said before that

466
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 5: you can ask somebody this question if they're looking for

467
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 5: a spouse, are you becoming the kind of person the

468
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 5: person you're looking for is looking for? Because if not,

469
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 5: why do you expect to get that kind of person?

470
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 5: If you're not working on yourself, if you're not the

471
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 5: kind of person that the kind of person you're looking

472
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 5: for would be attracted to, why do you think you're

473
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 5: going to get that person?

474
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 1: No? I think that's beautifully and in fact, profoundly put.

475
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: And what it does is it gives everybody, certainly all

476
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: young people, a project to work on, which is themselves,

477
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: because it's so easy to be my project is I'm

478
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: going to fix someone else?

479
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 2: Uh.

480
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: And what you're saying is, all right, you know what,

481
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: Let's do some individual rehabilitation and as we make ourselves better,

482
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: we'll we'll find the right people to be matched up to.

483
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 5: Right and you know, Charlie was so good at pointing

484
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 5: that out. I mean, how many times have you heard

485
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,719
Speaker 5: him say things like, man, what are you doing? How

486
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 5: much you how much you can drink? Is not something

487
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 5: that's going to attract the kind of woman you want

488
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 5: to You you're playing video games all night? You think

489
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 5: that's going to be the kind of person a woman

490
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 5: wants to marry. You can't hold down a job. Is

491
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 5: that the kind of person that a woman would like

492
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 5: to have as a provider? You need to work on

493
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 5: yourself before you're going to be attractive to somebody else.

494
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 3: And the same, you know, can be true with the ladies.

495
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 3: How are you dressing?

496
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 5: You know, if you dress too provocatively, you're going to

497
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 5: get a lot of attention, but not the kind of

498
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 5: attention you want.

499
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 3: You want somebody that is.

500
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 5: Going to if you want to attract a good man,

501
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 5: You're not going to necessarily attract a good man by

502
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 5: looking like you should be walking on forty second Street,

503
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 5: if you know what I mean?

504
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 2: Oh No, totally, I totally do.

505
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: I think also, as I think about it, there's an

506
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: important economic factor here, and I don't just in the

507
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: fact that so many working class jobs got decimated over

508
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: the last generation or so, jobs being outsourced and so on.

509
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: But I think also with the oncoming march of AI,

510
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: artificial intelligence and robotics, it could be that we are

511
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: looking at a future in which intelligent machines are doing

512
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: more and more things for us and the you know

513
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: the fact that for countless generations human beings have gotten,

514
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: and particularly men, that sense of accomplishment from providing for

515
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: a family, you know, putting a roof over your family's

516
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: head and putting braces on your kid's teeth. And we

517
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: might be coming to the dawn of an era in

518
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: which that changes, maybe in ways that you and I

519
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: can't fully foresee. I know that your domain is far

520
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: more the spiritual than the political or the economic. But

521
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 1: is this something that you think about and that worries

522
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: you at all?

523
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 3: Oh, it worries me some.

524
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 5: But I can tell you what will never go out

525
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 5: of fashion or will never not get you a job,

526
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 5: and that is being someone that has a work ethic.

527
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 5: If you have a work ethic, you can do almost anything.

528
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 5: And there's always going to be a job market for

529
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 5: somebody with a strong work ethic. And too often we

530
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 5: see people trying to avoid work rather than to do work.

531
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 5: And one thing that Charlie was so good at was

532
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 5: pointing out that when people join TPUSA, this isn't a

533
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 5: nine to five job. This is something where we're going

534
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 5: to ask you to commit to go above and beyond.

535
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 3: Sometimes you're going to have to work weekends.

536
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 5: Now, obviously we want you to take care of your

537
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 5: family as well, but there's going to be times that

538
00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 5: this is more of a commitment to something bigger than yourself.

539
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 5: It's not just you're not just doing something so you

540
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 5: can make a living. You're doing something because there's a

541
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 5: higher purpose. It's bigger than you, Charlie would always say.

542
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 5: And so I think that someone who has a really

543
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 5: good work ethic is always going to have a paycheck

544
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 5: coming in. You'll find a way to take care of

545
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 5: your family if you have a work ethic. If you don't,

546
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 5: it's not bright. It's not a bright future for you.

547
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: I mean, Frank, that's a very interesting way to look

548
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 1: at it. You're saying it's not even so much the

549
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 1: particular skill, because a particular skill.

550
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 2: Can become outdated.

551
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 1: Hey I used to be a farmer, but now we

552
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: have tractors and so on. But you're saying, keep that

553
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: discipline of being willing to work. And I would add

554
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 1: one thing to that myself, which is something that I

555
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 1: found has always stood me in good stead. Always be

556
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: willing to learn. Other words, try to cultivate that appetite

557
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 1: for learning, whether it's learning on the technic level, whether

558
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 1: it's learning about how the world works, whether it's history,

559
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: whether it's learning about human nature. And now, of course,

560
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: the nice thing I think is that we've got resources

561
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: at our fingertips like GROCK and chat GPT, and there's

562
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: an ocean of information available to to keep that lifelong

563
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 1: learning and uh, and that I think will stand will

564
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 1: stand us all in all in good Stead. Let's just

565
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: in the few minutes we have left, h Frank, let

566
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: me ask you about here. We are just a few

567
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: days from Christmas, and I want you to put on

568
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:41,720
Speaker 1: your apologetic hat uh and talk about the the importance

569
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: of Jesus. But but do it in a way that's

570
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: sort of not not not a church sermon per se.

571
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:51,919
Speaker 1: If you were talking to a secular guy and he goes,

572
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 1: what difference did Jesus make? What what's the significance of

573
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 1: Jesus in the world?

574
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 5: The shortest Yeah, the shortest answer I can give is

575
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 5: Jesus is the answer to the problem of evil, And

576
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 5: people say.

577
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:08,839
Speaker 3: Well, what do you mean.

578
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, there would be no.

579
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 5: Reason for Jesus to add humanity to his deity and

580
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 5: come to earth unless we had committed some kind of

581
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 5: offense against God. If we had never sinned, there'd be

582
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 5: no reason for a sacrifice to come into this world

583
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 5: to save us from the punishment we deserve for that sin.

584
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 3: So people always.

585
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 5: Say, well, well, there can't be a good God because

586
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 5: there's too much evil in the world. First of all,

587
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 5: you wouldn't even know what evil was unless you knew

588
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 5: what good was, and you wouldn't know what good was

589
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 5: unless you knew what God was. Because God's nature is

590
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 5: what we mean by the standard of good, and evil

591
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 5: is just a privation or a lack or a degradation

592
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 5: of that standard of good. So evil doesn't disprove God.

593
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 5: Evil may prove there's a devil out there, but there

594
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,919
Speaker 5: would be no such thing as evil unless there was good,

595
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,280
Speaker 5: and there'd be no such thing as good unless God existed.

596
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 5: So Jesus came into this world to take evil upon himself.

597
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,240
Speaker 5: So in infinitely just God wouldn't have to put evil

598
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 5: on us, or wouldn't have to put the punishment for

599
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 5: evil on us, because he's not only infinitely just, he's

600
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 5: also infinitely loving. He has to punish sin otherwise he's

601
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 5: not infinitely just. But he doesn't want to punish us

602
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 5: for our sin because he's also infinitely loving. So what

603
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 5: does he do instead? He puts that punishment on himself.

604
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,399
Speaker 5: He adds humanity to his deity and comes to earth,

605
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 5: and Christmas is just the story of him coming into

606
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 5: this universe to do that, and Easter, of course, is

607
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 5: the culmination and the proof of who he was when

608
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 5: he actually did take that punishment upon himself. And then

609
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 5: by trusting in him, we're not only forgiven, but we're

610
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 5: given his righteousness. So the evil that I saw firsthand

611
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 5: with Charlie's murder reminded me of why Jesus had to come.

612
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 5: He had to come to take evil upon himself so

613
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 5: he wouldn't have to put it upon us.

614
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 1: It almost seems, Frank, like you're reframing the conundrum. And

615
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 1: what I mean by that is that the real conundrum

616
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: a puzzle, is not why do we have evil in

617
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 1: the world or why would God allow it. The really

618
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 1: profound conundrum is how to reconcile divine justice or judgment

619
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: with divine mercy. In other words, only God would be

620
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 1: smart enough to figure out. Listen, when you do, these

621
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: have these human beings, and they're choosing all the way

622
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 1: back to the Garden of Eden to go their own

623
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,720
Speaker 1: way instead of God's way, which is probably a pretty

624
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: good definition of sin right there. That how do you

625
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: save these people from the inevitable judgment and that they're

626
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 1: bringing on themselves. And I think what you're saying is

627
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 1: Jesus is an answer to that.

628
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,280
Speaker 3: Problem, certainly, and that is the problem.

629
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 5: In fact, you wrote a book almost twenty years ago

630
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 5: called What's so Great about Christianity? You know what's so

631
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 5: great about Christianity? Christianity is the only religious worldview where

632
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 5: the problem of evil is solved, and it's solved by grace,

633
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,839
Speaker 5: not by works. In other words, you don't work your

634
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,839
Speaker 5: way to God. That's what every other religion tries to do.

635
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,879
Speaker 5: God works his way to you by coming to earth

636
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 5: and taking the punishment you deserve on himself, and then

637
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 5: by trusting in him, you're not only forgiven, but you're

638
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,720
Speaker 5: given his righteousness. If you don't want that, then God's

639
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 5: not going to force you into Heaven against your will.

640
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 5: He'll remain separated from you, because that's the ultimate, the

641
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 5: ultimate response or place that evil goes.

642
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 3: It goes to a place called hell.

643
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 5: That's where people that want to continue to do evil

644
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 5: are quarantine, so they don't interfere with the people that

645
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 5: no longer want to do it.

646
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,839
Speaker 1: And as we close out Frank, this in a way

647
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 1: creates an even bigger puzzle because, as you say, the

648
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 1: other religions, you've got this strenuous discipline that has to

649
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 1: be cultivated. You've got to pursue this elaborate regime of

650
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: laws and rules and this and that, all in the

651
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 1: hope of kind of ascending upward toward God. You're saying

652
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 1: that the Christian answer is breadtakingly simple. God will actually

653
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: do the work. You don't have to do it. God's

654
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 1: going to do it. In fact, you can't do it,

655
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,439
Speaker 1: and all you have to do is receive this free

656
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 1: gift of salvation, which raises the very simple question, what

657
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: do you think is the root psychological motivation for people

658
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 1: who still say that's too much, I'm not going to

659
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 1: do even that you're giving me a gift. It's not

660
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 1: just a gift of something, it's a gift of everything.

661
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: But I don't want it. Why would anyone say that.

662
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 3: Well, it's pride number one. Right. I can get there

663
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 3: on my own. I don't need you to help me.

664
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 5: And I think many In many cases, Danesh, it's that

665
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 5: people are on a happiness quest, not.

666
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 3: A truth quest.

667
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 5: In other words, I ask unbelievers, not just on college campuses,

668
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 5: but personally, this question. If Christianity were true, would you

669
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 5: become a Christian? And in a majority of cases, Danesh,

670
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 5: if people are honest, they'll say no, because it's not

671
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 5: a head problem, it's a hard problem.

672
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 3: They want to do their own thing.

673
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 5: They don't want God to exist because they want to

674
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 5: be God over their own lives. And so you might

675
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 5: ask that question over a Christmas meal, or maybe after

676
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 5: the meal's over. You may not want to ruin the meal,

677
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 5: but you know to have somebody there is not a Christian.

678
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 5: Hey have a question for you, just curious if it

679
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 5: was really true that Jesus came into this world and

680
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 5: died for our sins, and by trusting in him you're

681
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 5: not only forgiven, but given his righteousness.

682
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 3: Would you become a Christian.

683
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 5: I mean, if that was really true, would you follow

684
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,359
Speaker 5: Jesus and see what they say?

685
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a very it's a very riveting question

686
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 1: for any skeptic or atheist. And I think that's because

687
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,720
Speaker 1: and you and I have debated our share of these guys,

688
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: and in general they their public pose is always that

689
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: of the baffled truth seeker, right like, oh my gosh,

690
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 1: I'm looking out of the heavens, I'm trying to see God.

691
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,760
Speaker 1: I really don't see the guy. And if I did.

692
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: But what you're saying is that pose it to them

693
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: as a hypothetical. They may not find your proof satisfactory,

694
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: But say, listen, if I can sit you down, show

695
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:49,320
Speaker 1: you the appropriate evidence, photographs, whatever you want, and to

696
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:53,840
Speaker 1: your complete satisfaction, established without a shadow of a doubt,

697
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 1: that Christianity is true and that Jesus died for your sins,

698
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:00,800
Speaker 1: would you go down on your knee? Is an accepted

699
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 1: And what you're saying is that's gonna really be the

700
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 1: question that gets them to think about their true motives. Right.

701
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 5: That is, I might not say beyond a shadow of

702
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 5: a doubt, I might say beyond a reasonable doubts yeah, yeah,

703
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 5: because you know it could be that you and I

704
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 5: are both Ai avatars, right Dan, I mean you can't

705
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 5: misprove that, right, So beyond a reasonable doubt, if it

706
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,720
Speaker 5: were really true, if you came to realize it was true,

707
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,720
Speaker 5: beyond a reasonable doubt, would you follow Jesus.

708
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,760
Speaker 3: And it's kind of like marriage.

709
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 5: You might find somebody who would be a good wife

710
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 5: or a good spouse, but that doesn't mean you're going

711
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 5: to ask her to be your spouse.

712
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:41,839
Speaker 3: Right.

713
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 5: You have to go from just believing that something's true

714
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 5: to trusting in that person, whether it's Jesus or whether

715
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 5: it's a spouse. And that's a step of the will,

716
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 5: not not just a step of the mind. And this

717
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 5: is why John, who writes the biography we call the

718
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 5: Gospel John in the last verse of the I want

719
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 5: to say it's the twentieth chapter, I'm paraphrasing it. Right

720
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 5: after doubting Thomas, John tells you why he's writing the book.

721
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 5: He says this, these things were written down, these miracles

722
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,760
Speaker 5: were written down so that you may know that Jesus

723
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 5: is the savior, and by believing in him, you may

724
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 5: have life in his name. In other words, he's giving

725
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 5: the evidence in the first half of the verse. Here

726
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 5: are the signs. He's the savior, But it's up to

727
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 5: you whether you believe in him. Because you can know

728
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 5: something's true and not assent to it. You can know,

729
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 5: for example, a man can't become a woman, but you

730
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 5: might not assent to that because you have another desire

731
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 5: on your part.

732
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 1: Well, and not only that, but I think also that

733
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: I mean, using your example of asking someone to marry you,

734
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: even if you have full information about that person, let's

735
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: say that somehow you could gain encyclopedic knowledge of that person,

736
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 1: you still don't know what the next thirty years of

737
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: your life of forty years of your life are.

738
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 2: Going to be with them.

739
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 1: And so there is that element despite having all the

740
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: available knowledge of as you say, setting out in the journey,

741
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 1: getting in the boat, picking up the oars and taking

742
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: it from there. I mean that is, I suppose kind

743
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:24,800
Speaker 1: of what the Bible means by a leap of faith,

744
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 1: you're leaping into the boat.

745
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 5: Well, by the way, that's why you need a vowe

746
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,839
Speaker 5: at marriage, denesh right, you don't need a vow when

747
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 5: you're all lovey dovey. You need a vow when you

748
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 5: wake up in the morning after twenty years and you

749
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 5: look over and you go, you again.

750
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:42,360
Speaker 3: Why did it have to be you again?

751
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 5: Right?

752
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 3: I mean that's when you need the vow. You don't

753
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 3: need the vowe when everything's going great.

754
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 5: That's And by the way, marriage, as you know, as

755
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 5: an illustration of our ultimate, our ultimate marriage to Jesus.

756
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:57,279
Speaker 5: In fact, somebody put it this way. You can sum

757
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 5: up the Bible in five words. G Jesus wants to

758
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 5: marry you. That's essentially why Jesus comes to earth. He

759
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 5: wants to redeem you. He wants to take your sin

760
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 5: upon himself and then make you an air of his kingdom,

761
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 5: adopt you into his kingdom.

762
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 3: And some people don't want that, danesh.

763
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 5: They want to create their own kingdom here on earth

764
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 5: that they know is going to end at some point,

765
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 5: and they think that's a better thing for them. Okay,

766
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:31,359
Speaker 5: God's not going to force him into heaven against their will.

767
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:33,400
Speaker 5: If they don't want Jesus now, they're not going to

768
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:34,320
Speaker 5: want him in eternity.

769
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, very interesting, guys.

770
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 1: I've been talking to the one and only Frank Turrek.

771
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 1: The website is cross Examined dot org. Follow him on

772
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: x at doctor Dr Frank Turek. Frank, very interesting conversation,

773
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 1: and thank you so much for joining me.

774
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 2: Merry Christmas to you.

775
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:53,760
Speaker 3: You as well, Dnesh.

776
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 5: Merry Christmas, God bless you.

777
00:45:57,640 --> 00:45:59,840
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778
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779
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840
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Speaker 1: I want to talk today, drawing on my book Life

841
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 1: After Death. The evidence about freewill and the importance of

842
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,879
Speaker 1: free will is that it shows us that if it exists,

843
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 1: it means that there is a part of us that

844
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 1: is outside or beyond the laws of nature. Remember, the

845
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 1: argument against free will is that nature is a closed system.

846
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:48,880
Speaker 1: Everything is the product of being caused by something else,

847
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 1: and that means that our minds are caused in the

848
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 1: same way by the physical motions of atoms and neurons

849
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,359
Speaker 1: and our nervous system and so on. So even if

850
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:02,359
Speaker 1: we think we have free will, we don't actually know

851
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 1: what's going on inside of our heads, and so it

852
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 1: could be or it seems to be. And the argument

853
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 1: is made by skeptics and others free.

854
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 2: Will is an illusion.

855
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:18,359
Speaker 1: Now I want to answer that argument or address it.

856
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 1: By drawing on an argument from the philosopher Immanual Kant.

857
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: And the argument is so surprising and interesting and unexpected that,

858
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,479
Speaker 1: in my opinion, it has never been refuted. In fact,

859
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:41,279
Speaker 1: it's never even been seriously challenged. It is so obviously

860
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 1: correct and true, and it so firmly establishes the reality

861
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: of free will that even though I've searched for effective refutations,

862
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 1: they end up being nothing more than a repetition of

863
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:59,280
Speaker 1: the materialist argument I just gave you, even though Kant

864
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:03,360
Speaker 1: shows the limitations and indeed the falsehood.

865
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 2: In the end of that particular argument.

866
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 1: Now, generally the people who try to establish free will

867
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:15,319
Speaker 1: take a very easy route. They rely essentially on the

868
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 1: argument of non contradiction. They go, hey, you're trying to

869
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 1: convince me that there's no free will. But just by

870
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 1: the fact that you're trying to convince me of that,

871
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:29,840
Speaker 1: that presumes that I have free will, and in fact

872
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: you have free will as well. Because you're choosing to

873
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 1: make this argument, you could easily have made the opposite

874
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:38,319
Speaker 1: argument that there is free will, but you've chosen to make,

875
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:40,839
Speaker 1: based on evidence, the argument that there's no free will.

876
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:42,479
Speaker 2: So this is the.

877
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 1: Kind of traditional and I would say easy way to

878
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 1: try to tackle the problem, but Kant goes in a

879
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 1: different direction.

880
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 2: This is how he argues.

881
00:51:53,400 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 1: He says, let's begin with the observation that morality and

882
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 1: morality here refers to choosing between right and wrong.

883
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 2: Morality really refers to the rules of right and wrong.

884
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,399
Speaker 1: Let's call it the Ten Commandments. That's a pretty good

885
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 1: surrogate for morality. But we're making moral decisions all the time.

886
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 1: Our lives are inconceivable without it. We actually call people

887
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 1: who are incapable of exercising any sort of moral judgment,

888
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 1: we call those people psychopaths. And so morality concess is real.

889
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 1: It's part of our world. We observe it, we are

890
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 1: part of it, we do it, we identify people who

891
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 1: don't do it. So morality is real, and what he

892
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,479
Speaker 1: means by real it is as real as anything else

893
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 1: in the world. Yeah, over there, I can look and

894
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 1: see there's a highway. I can look up in the

895
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,360
Speaker 1: sky and see there's the sun. The sun is real,

896
00:52:55,640 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 1: and it can be verified by observing. It can be observed,

897
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:07,399
Speaker 1: and morality can be examined and juries, for example, all

898
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 1: the time make judgments about is this person acting in

899
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 1: a moral way or not. So Kant goes on to say,

900
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 1: morality is so real, it's so obvious that everything we

901
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:25,359
Speaker 1: do presumes the existence of morality. Let's say you say

902
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,840
Speaker 1: to someone you should have told the truth the guy's

903
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:33,960
Speaker 1: lying to you. What you mean is that the guy could.

904
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 2: Tell the truth.

905
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,359
Speaker 1: If he couldn't tell the truth, then makes no sense

906
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 1: to say you should have told the truth. Or let's

907
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 1: say that you tell your child don't cheat on the exam, Well,

908
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:47,240
Speaker 1: that means that your child is capable of not cheating.

909
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:52,359
Speaker 1: You're telling your child that because you know that they

910
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:56,319
Speaker 1: are in a position not to do that. And so

911
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:58,800
Speaker 1: this is where Kant is going with this. He says

912
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 1: that when we use the world ought you ought to

913
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,360
Speaker 1: do this, that presumes.

914
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:07,720
Speaker 2: The idea of can.

915
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:12,359
Speaker 1: If you ought to do something, you can do it,

916
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:18,840
Speaker 1: because otherwise the term art makes no sense at all.

917
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 1: In fact, every time you become upset or indignant with

918
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: somebody else because they did a certain thing, your behavior

919
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:29,440
Speaker 1: only makes sense if they could have done something else.

920
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 1: And this also applies, by the way, to yourself. If

921
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 1: you ever like regret or you have remorse, none of

922
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: that is even comprehensible. If you don't have freedom, you're

923
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 1: sorry for what you did. Therefore it has to be

924
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 1: the case that you could have done otherwise. And so

925
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 1: what cond is saying that if this is true, then

926
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 1: it means that humans, at least to some degree and

927
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 1: on some occasions.

928
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:59,799
Speaker 2: Do have free choice.

929
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:03,719
Speaker 1: So this is the argument in a nutshell. But what

930
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:07,759
Speaker 1: is really startling and important Here are the implications of

931
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 1: the argument, which I will spell out in this way.

932
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:13,319
Speaker 1: Let's go back to what I said a couple of

933
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 1: days ago about the scientist Laplace. So Laplace says to

934
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:23,799
Speaker 1: Napoleon that since we are just material objects in a

935
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 1: lawful universe, free will is impossible. But like all arguments,

936
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 1: is argument depends on the strength of the premise.

937
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 2: It's the if. If this is so, then that follows.

938
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 1: So, if the premise is valid and the reasoning is sound,

939
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 1: the conclusion is inevitably true. But conversely, if the conclusion

940
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:52,040
Speaker 1: is false, then we have to re examine the premise,

941
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 1: and we have to re examine the premise, because if

942
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:59,359
Speaker 1: the conclusion is false and the reasoning is sound, the

943
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 1: premise must be false. So now we've seen, with the

944
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:09,440
Speaker 1: help of Kant, that free will exists and therefore it

945
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 1: follows contra laplace that we are not merely material objects

946
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 1: in a lawful universe. The startling conclusion from Kant is

947
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:23,759
Speaker 1: that there's a part of human nature that transcendentally operates

948
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 1: outside the physical laws that govern material things. So the

949
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 1: implications here is that there are aspects of our humanity

950
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 1: that are not subject to the material restrictions of the world.

951
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 1: And so summing up, we have now found two central

952
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 1: features of human nature, the first one consciousness, the second

953
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 1: one free will, that are irreducible to matter and appear

954
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:53,839
Speaker 1: to be somewhat independent of it. Consciousness and free will

955
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 1: have no natural explanation, and they seem to function outside

956
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 1: the bounds of physical law itself. Now I'm using this

957
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:07,719
Speaker 1: discussion to set up my next chapter which I'm just

958
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:11,839
Speaker 1: going to introduce, which is called very appropriately out of

959
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 1: this World Philosophy discovers the Afterlife, And I'm going to

960
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:24,080
Speaker 1: use this premise. By the way, the opening quote of

961
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 1: this chapter is from Ludwig Wittgenstein in his book called

962
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 1: the Tractatus. He says the sense of the world must

963
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:38,440
Speaker 1: lie outside the world. The seemingly paradoxical statement because you

964
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 1: think that the sense of something comes from the thing itself.

965
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 1: The sense of a car rises from the car. The

966
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:47,959
Speaker 1: sense of the sky arises from my experience of the sky.

967
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 1: But Wittgenstein is saying Wittgenstein that this is not applicable

968
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 1: to the world as a whole. The true sense of

969
00:57:55,880 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 1: the world, as you reflect on it, comes from outside

970
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 1: the world. So I'm going to draw on the most villas,

971
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:08,960
Speaker 1: a powerful philosophy of the last two centuries, to identify

972
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:13,000
Speaker 1: an internal realm that is beyond physical law. I'm going

973
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 1: to show that this realm is required not only by

974
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:24,520
Speaker 1: Western but also Eastern ideas of immortality. I'm going to

975
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 1: show that there's an eternal part of us that inhabits

976
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 1: this realm, inhabits it even now, and will sort of

977
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 1: join it when we die. Strangely, my guide for this

978
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 1: journey is not going to be is going to be

979
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: an atheist, namely the philosopher named Arthur Schopenhauer. And just

980
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:48,480
Speaker 1: as Virgil was sort of Dante's spiritual guide, taking him

981
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 1: through hell and purgatory in heaven, Schopenhauer is going to

982
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:54,960
Speaker 1: be our intellectual guide, showing us the way to the

983
00:58:54,960 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 1: world beyond science and beyond our senses. Now, the remarkable

984
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:05,320
Speaker 1: thing about Schopenhauer is that he was an atheist who

985
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 1: I think believed in life after death. It may seem

986
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 1: kind of shocking, but if you think about it, there's

987
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 1: actually nothing inherently inconsistent about it. The question of whether

988
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 1: there is a God and the question of whether there

989
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 1: is an afterlife are two separate questions. Admittedly in Christianity

990
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 1: they're linked. It's God who in a sense creates heaven.

991
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 1: It's God who creates hell, and so the divine creator

992
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:38,840
Speaker 1: and the afterlife are inextricably linked. But we can separate

993
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 1: these two issues out like conceptually, this is not a

994
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 1: book or an investigation proving God. I've looked at that

995
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:48,560
Speaker 1: subject in my other books What's So Great About Christianity

996
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:52,400
Speaker 1: and also a subsequent book on God and Suffering, But

997
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 1: here we're just focused on life after death. And so

998
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:58,960
Speaker 1: remarkably we can take as our guide an atheist, but

999
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 1: an atheist, by the way, who is grounded in the

1000
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:07,080
Speaker 1: mainstream of Western and European philosophy. In fact, Schopenhauer was

1001
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 1: a kantient, and so we're going to kind of begin

1002
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:12,959
Speaker 1: with Kant but then go beyond Kant, and we're going

1003
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:15,840
Speaker 1: to look and see how it is possible by the way,

1004
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:21,760
Speaker 1: not using the Bible, not using divine revelation, proceeding on

1005
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 1: the basis of reason alone to make a philosophical journey

1006
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:30,120
Speaker 1: to discover the truth about life after death.

1007
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:34,320
Speaker 5: Subscribe to the Dinesh de SUSA podcast on Apple, Google,

1008
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 5: and Spotify, or watch on Rumble YouTube and Salem now

1009
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 5: dot com.