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Speaker 1: Life Audio.

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Speaker 2: I'm a SWAT officer. I'm a Brazilian jiu jitsu black

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Speaker 2: belt and professional fighter. But I've always been good at fighting.

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Speaker 2: There were hardships and suffering and training for fight. There's

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Speaker 2: lots of suffering, and police work is full of sacrifice

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Speaker 2: and suffering. You know, transparently, I never suffered. I say

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Speaker 2: that because now I know what's suffering. It's like I

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Speaker 2: got sick a year ago. I've lost it close to

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Speaker 2: fifty pounds. I can't eat food. Food is really liking

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Speaker 2: my poison. I was a professional athlete before this, and

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Speaker 2: now the smallest task to make me exhausted. I was

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Speaker 2: always so intent on being a good fighter and prized

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Speaker 2: myself and being a good fighter. The Lord has been

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Speaker 2: teaching me recently how to be a good sufferer. The

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Speaker 2: difference between those who are crushed by their circumstance and

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Speaker 2: those who endure through it, it's not the pain they

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Speaker 2: experience itself, it's where they put their heart.

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Speaker 3: The march continues, and so often when we talk about

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Speaker 3: march or dye, we think of it in terms of

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Speaker 3: something happens. We make a decision to march. Things get better,

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Speaker 3: we're able to fight through it. It's a quick turn.

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Speaker 3: The decision to move forward is the thing that fixes

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Speaker 3: whatever is not working, whatever was broken, whatever was hurting.

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Speaker 3: And it's that decision, and we're able to quickly reconcile

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Speaker 3: whatever was wrong, whatever's not working. And I think that's

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Speaker 3: the hope for most of us. The hope is that

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Speaker 3: as bad as things are right now, if I'll just

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Speaker 3: make a couple of good decisions, talk to the right people,

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Speaker 3: get the right counsel, do the right stuff, then the

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Speaker 3: problem will go away and I'll be able to continue

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Speaker 3: with my life. And so often that's just not the case.

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Speaker 3: The challenge for many is not the difficulty. The challenge

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Speaker 3: is the length of time it takes to walk out

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Speaker 3: what we say we believe, that faith, that confidence, that

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Speaker 3: hope that God will continue to work in our lives.

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Speaker 3: And so today the title of this podcast, if there's

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Speaker 3: a title, is a Biblical view of pain. And so

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Speaker 3: many are familiar with some of the health stuff that

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Speaker 3: you've been going through. But as much as we've been praying,

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Speaker 3: and certainly you and your family have been praying and

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Speaker 3: working toward reconciling and resolving these physical issues and talking

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Speaker 3: to the professionals and doing all the things, all the

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Speaker 3: things right, Like some of the things we've talked about.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, that's all the things. You're still in the fight,

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Speaker 3: and that's an important lesson.

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Speaker 1: And man, I.

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Speaker 3: Appreciate you being willing to spend some time talking about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I mean this is an important topic

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Speaker 2: to me, and honestly, I have to be honest and

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Speaker 2: saying that my view of this, you know, pain and suffering,

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Speaker 2: especially as I wrestle with the word, as you know,

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Speaker 2: ebbed and flowed and changed over time. And so when

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Speaker 2: we were talking about doing an episode, I was like, man,

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Speaker 2: this has just been on my.

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Speaker 1: Heart a lot lately.

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Speaker 2: And how the Lord has continued to work through this

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Speaker 2: time of pain and suffering has has revealed some things

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Speaker 2: to me, you know. And and not that I have

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Speaker 2: it all figured out, but the truth is we're all

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Speaker 2: we're all going to encounter pain and suffering. I mean,

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Speaker 2: there's no amount of success, There's there's no amount of intelligence, faith, preparation, perseverance,

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Speaker 2: there's nothing that's going to get you away from suffering.

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Speaker 2: And that's we're all going to encounter suffering. And so

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Speaker 2: the question is not will suffering come, The question is

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Speaker 2: what is it going to do to you when it

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Speaker 2: does come? It is to make you better? Is it

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Speaker 2: going to make you bitter? Is it going to destroy

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Speaker 2: your faith? Is it going to deepen your faith? Is

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Speaker 2: it gonna, you know, push you away from God? Is

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Speaker 2: it going to draw you towards God? And I would

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Speaker 2: say something that I've realized is how you view suffering

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Speaker 2: will determine whether or not it makes or breaks you

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Speaker 2: during that season of your life.

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Speaker 3: You said this, and this is a exactly right that

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Speaker 3: it's not a question of whether or not you're going

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Speaker 3: to deal with pain and suffering, and I'd like for

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Speaker 3: us to talk about that a little bit too, like

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Speaker 3: even defining those terms, but how you're going to handle

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Speaker 3: it when you do.

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Speaker 1: And the Bible is very clear on this, right.

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Speaker 3: We look at examples in the Old Testament, but I

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Speaker 3: mean almost commands in the New Testament from the apostle

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Speaker 3: Paul and from Peter and from others that said, hey,

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Speaker 3: you need to expect this. And James says, it's good

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Speaker 3: when you go through these difficulties because this is how

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Speaker 3: God teaches you, this is how God refines you. And

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Speaker 3: we can read those things as Christians, and again think that, well,

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Speaker 3: it's a fast term, right, I'm going to have some

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Speaker 3: difficult days, but I'll get through them quickly. God will

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Speaker 3: teach me the lesson and once I learned the lesson,

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Speaker 3: then things get better.

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Speaker 1: And that's just not always the case.

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Speaker 3: And you know, for me, when march Or died this

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Speaker 3: podcast started, that was really the motivation for it was

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Speaker 3: to help people understand difficulty will come because it comes

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Speaker 3: to all of us. The question is what are you

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Speaker 3: going to do about it? And how long are you

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Speaker 3: going to stay in the fight and are you willing

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Speaker 3: to trust God to walk this out? And I think,

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Speaker 3: you know, again, it's important to talk about what we

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Speaker 3: mean by pain and suffering. And I know that you

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Speaker 3: have a very specific context, but there are people listening,

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Speaker 3: people who are dealing with what they would define as

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Speaker 3: pain and suffering that would be a difficulty in a

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Speaker 3: marriage relationship, or challenges with kids, or a work reversal,

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Speaker 3: or you know, people wake up and look around and go,

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Speaker 3: this is not where I thought I'd be at this

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Speaker 3: point in my life. And there's regrets and that comes

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Speaker 3: with a lot of pain. So this is not about

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Speaker 3: a specific thing it's about that challenge. When we talk

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Speaker 3: about trauma sometimes, you know, I've heard trauma to find

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Speaker 3: a number of ways. One of the definitions I like

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Speaker 3: is is that it's an event or series of events

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Speaker 3: that pushes you beyond your ability to cope. And I

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Speaker 3: think that thing, that event or series of events, it's

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Speaker 3: different for all of us. But if you find yourself

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Speaker 3: in that spot where you're thinking, I just can't go

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Speaker 3: on anymore, that's what we're talking about. Yeah, whatever that

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Speaker 3: thing is that's preventing you from moving forward, that's what

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Speaker 3: we're talking about. So two things I'd like for you

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Speaker 3: to talk about, you know, pain and suffering and what

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Speaker 3: you mean by those words, and then give a little

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Speaker 3: bit of your story. A lot of people have heard it,

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Speaker 3: but for those that haven't, just talk about how, you know,

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Speaker 3: how you kind of got here and what you've been

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Speaker 3: dealing with.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, so to your point, you just you

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Speaker 2: just made that you know, suffering is gonna come. It's

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Speaker 2: it's all throughout the it's all throughout scripture, you know,

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Speaker 2: John sixteen thirty three, In this world you will have trouble. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The hope of that verse, which we'll get into later,

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Speaker 2: I'd like to get into later is take Hard. I

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Speaker 2: have overcome the world, right, So we'll get into that later.

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Speaker 2: But you know, Job, you know, loses everything. Joseph is

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Speaker 2: portrayed in prison. David's on the run for years of

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Speaker 2: his life, you know, and he he's promised, you know,

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Speaker 2: a good life. It spends most of his life running,

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Speaker 2: you know. Jeremiah mocked, Paul's beaten, shipwrecked. I mean, Jesus himself,

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Speaker 2: you know, is betrayed and ultimately, you know, dies on

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Speaker 2: the cross, you know. So the Bible doesn't hide suffering,

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Speaker 2: you know, in any way, shape or form, and I

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Speaker 2: would say it explains it, you know, and suffering is

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Speaker 2: an affliction, you know, And a lot of times because

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Speaker 2: people know that I'm sick, they'll be like, oh, I'm

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Speaker 2: not going through anything like you, but this is what's

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Speaker 2: going on. And it's like, hey, You're suffering is relative

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Speaker 2: to you. You know, what you're going through with Hard,

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Speaker 2: and so don't disqualify it, because the Lord doesn't disqualify it.

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Speaker 2: So don't disqualify it, you know. For me, just just

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Speaker 2: to catch everybody up real quick, you know, for those

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Speaker 2: who may be listening that haven't heard I mean I

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Speaker 2: got sick. I got sick a year ago. We're pretty

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Speaker 2: confident it was the result of an antibotic injury, at

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Speaker 2: least from what we can understand. But I got severely ill.

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Speaker 2: I can't you know, I've lost close to fifty pounds.

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Speaker 2: I can't gain that back. I can't eat food. Food

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Speaker 2: is really like my poison. I have to eat to

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Speaker 2: sustain life, but then it makes me very sick when

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Speaker 2: I eat, you know, severe nausea, debilitating dizziness, and extreme fatigue.

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Speaker 2: You know, I was a professional athlete before this, and

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Speaker 2: now you know, transparently like the smallest tasks and makes

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Speaker 2: me exhausted. So I've been wrestling with this for a

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Speaker 2: long time and been praying and asking for prayer and

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Speaker 2: and you know, wrestling with the Lord in this. And

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Speaker 2: like you, like you spoke of at the beginning of this,

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Speaker 2: you know that that healing, you know, in my physical

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Speaker 2: body has has not come. Now there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: healing that I want to get into that we can

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Speaker 2: talk about. But you know that's what's going on with me.

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Speaker 2: And you know, as far as the suffering point goes,

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Speaker 2: you've already highlighted like that. You know, it's really guaranteed,

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Speaker 2: you know, to some extent, and that you know and

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Speaker 2: the Bible tells us that that's going to happen.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting to talk to people who have been through

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Speaker 3: long periods of illness, or long periods of joblessness or

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Speaker 3: man these long relationship issues, maybe it's struggling with a

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Speaker 3: kid for several years or something, and how their view

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Speaker 3: of God, their view of healing and hurt and you

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Speaker 3: know what we're calling today pain and suffering. Their view

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Speaker 3: of those things changes early on, and then it changes

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Speaker 3: later on, and it continues to almost clarify, coming to

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Speaker 3: focus more the longer they're walking through that talk about

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Speaker 3: some of the things maybe you thought before this. You know,

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Speaker 3: your athlete, you're you're you're fighting, fighting professionally, one of

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Speaker 3: the fittest guys I know, swat officer, You've done all

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Speaker 3: the things. Yeah, so you have a perspective of pain

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Speaker 3: and suffering just as a human who's kind of a

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Speaker 3: high performer, and then this happens to you. What was

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Speaker 3: your kind of perspective then, and what are some of

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Speaker 3: the ways that that's changed over the last year.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good question. So, yeah, to your point,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I've always you know, and I prided myself

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Speaker 2: in this right and maybe not in the best ways,

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Speaker 2: you know, but I never did it, you know, with

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Speaker 2: you know, arrogance. But I was like, Oh, I'm a

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Speaker 2: SWAT officer and I'm this guy I fight, you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm a professional fighter. I'm a Brazilian jiu jitsu black belt,

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Speaker 2: and all these things that I'm proud of to this day,

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Speaker 2: are still proud of. But I've always been good at fighting,

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Speaker 2: you know, and to some extent, right like, whatever I

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Speaker 2: was doing, it was like a fight, you know, and

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Speaker 2: and I to myself and being a fighter. And although

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Speaker 2: there were suffering in those seasons, you know, there were

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Speaker 2: hardships and suffering and training for fight, there's lots of suffering,

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Speaker 2: and you know, police work is full of sacrifice and suffering.

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Speaker 2: I never, you know, transparently, I never suffered. You know.

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Speaker 2: I say that because now I know what's sufferings likely.

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Speaker 2: And what I think I've realized is that I was

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Speaker 2: always so intent on being a good fighter and prized

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Speaker 2: myself and being a good fighter, that the Lord has

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Speaker 2: been teaching me recently how to be a good sufferer.

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Speaker 2: And that's a really, really hard place to be in.

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Speaker 2: And what I don't mean is that God is causing

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Speaker 2: me to be sick so that I can learn to suffer.

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Speaker 2: That's not what I'm saying. So I think people need

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Speaker 2: to rebuke that thought if it comes into their mind,

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Speaker 2: if they're sick or they're dealing with the infliction, they think, oh,

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Speaker 2: it's because of this, you know. In Job, you know,

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Speaker 2: his friends are like, well, you must be living a

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Speaker 2: worse life than us, because you're worse than us. And

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Speaker 2: later the Lord rebukes them, you know, and raises up

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Speaker 2: Job that is completely contradictory to what the Bible tells us.

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Speaker 2: So you have to fight back against that. But the

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Speaker 2: gift of having a relationship with God is that he

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Speaker 2: can use our suffering to form us. You know, Romans

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Speaker 2: tells us suffering produces perseverance, perseverance, character and character, hope.

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Speaker 2: And so if we allow the Lord to work through

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Speaker 2: during our suffering, then it continued, then it can continue

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Speaker 2: to shape us. And so what I've always prided myself

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Speaker 2: in as being a fighter and being good at fighting,

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Speaker 2: I never really had to be good at suffering. And

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Speaker 2: I'm reminded in this season of my life, you know,

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Speaker 2: of like, man, I'm thick, I'm beaten, and it feels like,

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Speaker 2: you know, like, man, this doesn't make any sense. This

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Speaker 2: is not the design. And honestly, I've been reflecting on lately,

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Speaker 2: like Jesus. Jesus went to the cross broken, beaten, and destroyed.

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Speaker 2: You know. He didn't walk to the cross strong and

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Speaker 2: you know, just his normal healthy self. And so he conquered,

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Speaker 2: you know, he conquered the grave. But on his way

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Speaker 2: there there was times of brokenness and despair and hardship,

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Speaker 2: you know. And so for early on a lot of

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Speaker 2: times all I did was just like, pray and have

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Speaker 2: the hope right for my earthly healing. And I still

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Speaker 2: have that. I'm still reaching for the fringe, the fringe

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Speaker 2: of Jesus' robe, right like, and I know if I

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Speaker 2: can just touch it, I'm healed, right, I have full

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Speaker 2: belief in that. But for the longest time, that's all

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Speaker 2: my hope was in was with earthly healing, and that

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Speaker 2: over time became devastating because I was not healed, you know,

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Speaker 2: living in a constant state of know this hope deferred,

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Speaker 2: you know, makes the heart thick. I was constantly devastated

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Speaker 2: because I would not turn the corner and get better.

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Speaker 2: And what started to shift is understanding that God is

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Speaker 2: using his suffer, using my suffering, to continue to sanctify me.

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Speaker 2: And that has been a gift that that I did

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Speaker 2: not expect to receive. You know, in the midst of

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Speaker 2: this suffering, I did not expect to be able to

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Speaker 2: continue to be sanctified and there to be goodness seen

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Speaker 2: in this level of suffering because of the gift that

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Speaker 2: Christ has given me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I think there is there is a

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Speaker 1: reality that.

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Speaker 3: Actions have consequences, right, and so there are things that

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Speaker 3: we do that cause harm and and bring difficulty into

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Speaker 3: our lives. And then there are things that just happen, right,

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Speaker 3: It's just life. And the Bible does talk about the

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Speaker 3: chastening of the Lord, and God uses events, some things

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Speaker 3: in our lives to bring us back into alignment with

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Speaker 3: Him for those that.

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Speaker 1: Get away from Him.

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Speaker 3: And so I do think in a process and again

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Speaker 3: we talked about this, but in a process of pain

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Speaker 3: and suffering, there is a point where you have to

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Speaker 3: look and go and you did this early on. We

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Speaker 3: talked about this a lot. Hey, did I did I

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Speaker 3: do something to bring this into my life? Is there

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Speaker 3: is there something you know, God had to get a

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Speaker 3: hold of me because I was going the wrong direction

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Speaker 3: or you know I made some you know, bad medical

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Speaker 3: decisions or whatever, like did I cause this?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 3: And so I think we can over overly become introspective

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Speaker 3: and then take on a blame that we're not supposed to.

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Speaker 3: I think it's valuable to look at what we're going

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Speaker 3: through though, and go all right, what could I have

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Speaker 3: done different? And you know, we need to to take

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Speaker 3: responsibility for the things that we've done. That being said,

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Speaker 3: and so that's just a kind of a side note,

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Speaker 3: like because some people are completely like, well God is

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Speaker 3: doing this to me or I have no responsibility or

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Speaker 3: whatever like that's that can also be ridiculous, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: But you know I've said this before. The how we

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Speaker 3: got here is far less important than what we do now.

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Speaker 3: And man, I think to your point, and this, unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: I think is something you have to walk through before

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Speaker 3: you really get a hold of it. God cares a

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Speaker 3: whole lot more about your relationship with Him, your sanctification,

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Speaker 3: your growth spiritually then he does the rest of it.

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Speaker 3: The rest of it just doesn't matter to him that much.

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Speaker 3: Now he loves us he cares about us. He wants,

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Speaker 3: you know, good for us. I think the Bible is

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Speaker 3: very clear on that. But there are are are people

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Speaker 3: that would make the goal physical healing, would say if

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Speaker 3: God's not healing, then he's not working or you know,

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Speaker 3: I don't know. People get very twisted up on that.

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Speaker 3: But that's I don't think that's God's goal.

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Speaker 1: I don't think.

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Speaker 3: You know, you're being healthy and wealthy and.

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Speaker 1: All the things.

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Speaker 3: I think he cares a whole lot more about his

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Speaker 3: relationship with you than he does anything else. And that's man,

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Speaker 3: that's a hard place to come to, and I don't

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Speaker 3: know if you can come to it unless you've been

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Speaker 3: through a process that brings you there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I smile because that's exactly I mean.

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Speaker 2: That's what I'm in right now, is this continued sanctification process.

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Speaker 2: I believe that the Lord. I still to this day,

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Speaker 2: Jeremy and I say this openly. I believe the Lord's

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Speaker 2: going to heal me yep. And I believe it's going

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Speaker 2: to be on this earth. I don't know when or

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Speaker 2: how long it's not, but I believe that I'm going

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Speaker 2: to be healed. Now to your point, and I think

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Speaker 2: it's such a powerful statement that you said that. It's

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Speaker 2: even more powerful than most people will realize when they

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Speaker 2: first hear it, is that God is more concerned about

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Speaker 2: your sanctification and your eternity than he is about the

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Speaker 2: suffering that you're in right now. Like he loves you

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Speaker 2: and he does not want you to be in the

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Speaker 2: suffering right now, like he is weeping and he is

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Speaker 2: mourning with you. But you're sanctification in your eternity is

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Speaker 2: more important to him than what is you know, what

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Speaker 2: is a long time for me right now at one time,

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Speaker 2: at one day, it will be just a blimp, you know,

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Speaker 2: just not even a spec in my memory. And so

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Speaker 2: I think it's it's interesting to me that you know,

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Speaker 2: all all the other cultures in the world. You know,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of culture, especially Eastern culture, views suffering

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Speaker 2: as as almost like a gift, you know, and here

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Speaker 2: in the western secular world, like we view culture, we

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Speaker 2: view this culture view suffering as something to avoid at

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Speaker 2: all costs. You know. There's a physician named Paul Brand

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Speaker 2: who who both practiced in India and in the United States.

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Speaker 2: Spent most of the first part of his career in

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Speaker 2: India and the last part of his career in the

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Speaker 2: United States, and he speaks about specifically that our culture

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Speaker 2: here in the United States has the most comfort but

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Speaker 2: is most traumatized by suffering because we do not equip

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Speaker 2: our culture to deal with suffering, because we comfort driven culture.

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Speaker 2: We live in a comfort driven culture. Now, the gift

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Speaker 2: of Christianity is that all these things have some ties

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Speaker 2: to truth, right, Like, like, you know, these Eastern cultures

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Speaker 2: will tell you that you know your desire is disorderly,

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Speaker 2: and so if you reduce your desire, then you reduce

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Speaker 2: the suffering. And there's there's some truth into that, right,

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Speaker 2: Like we don't want to we don't have to want

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Speaker 2: to have disorderly desire. The Western culture tells you should

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Speaker 2: avoid suffering at all costs. Well, suffering is real and

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Speaker 2: painful and genuine. We don't want to endure it, you know,

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Speaker 2: if we don't have to. But all those are only

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Speaker 2: partially right, and so therefore they're completely wrong. The gift

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Speaker 2: of Christianity is it recognizes all that, and because of

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Speaker 2: the gift of the resurrection, we get to have any

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Speaker 2: eternal life, and so our view of suffering should be

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Speaker 2: one that is not the ultimate end right, because Jesus

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Speaker 2: came and paid for that suffering and we get to

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Speaker 2: have that eternal life, you know. And so I think

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Speaker 2: it's interesting that there's all the no matter no matter

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Speaker 2: who you are, what you believe, you have a view

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Speaker 2: of suffering, right, The only view of suffering that I've

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Speaker 2: ever heard of that actually provides real hope is Christianity.

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Speaker 2: So in other cultures, you're either trying to avoid suffering

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Speaker 2: at all costs, or you're going to, you know, try

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Speaker 2: to avoid being reincarnated, or you want to be reincarnated,

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Speaker 2: or whatever the case may be. But none of them

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Speaker 2: promise a life of joy and happiness, a real life

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Speaker 2: with dancing and loving and hugging with your loved ones.

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Speaker 2: Christianity is the only one that promises that. And I

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Speaker 2: think even if you're not a Christian, if you're listening

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Speaker 2: to this podcast, if you're not a Christian and you

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Speaker 2: don't believe that, wouldn't you hope that was true?

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Speaker 1: Though?

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Speaker 2: Wouldn't you hope that was true at the end of

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Speaker 2: the day. And so these are all things, these are

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Speaker 2: all side thoughts, just things that I've been wrestling with

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Speaker 2: in this process of what it looks like to be

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Speaker 2: suffering and how we look at it through a biblical lens.

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Speaker 2: And although suffering is promised in the Bible, it's also

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Speaker 2: the most beautiful perspective of suffering because it's not the end.

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Speaker 2: Suffering is not the end.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's interesting you talk about that. I think,

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Speaker 3: you know, different views of suffering, right, and this is

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Speaker 3: becoming more prominent. I think even in the United States

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Speaker 3: through kind of the social media influencer world, that suffering

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Speaker 3: is the goal.

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Speaker 1: And we've talked about this before, and I've said this before.

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Speaker 3: Discipline is not the goal, right, Like we need to

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Speaker 3: suffer to grow, whether that's physically or having those hard

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Speaker 3: conversations and relationships whatever. But the goal is not the suffering.

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Speaker 3: And I think in you know, you just talked about

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Speaker 3: whether Stoicism or Eastern religion, suffering is the goal, because

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Speaker 3: that is a means to the end of advancing through

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Speaker 3: spiritual levels or getting to heaven or however you would

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Speaker 3: define that. It's a works based we could say it

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Speaker 3: this way, it works based salvation, right, That's how we

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Speaker 3: talk about it as Christians. Where As Christians, we look

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Speaker 3: too like the apostle Paul who said I prayed three

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Speaker 3: times that God would take this away from me, whatever

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Speaker 3: Paul is dealing with, and the answer was no, because

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Speaker 3: my grace is sufficient for you. And Paul expresses that

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Speaker 3: there were some things God wanted to show him through that,

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Speaker 3: and ultimately it was putting him in a position where

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Speaker 3: he had to depend on God. And I think for

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Speaker 3: so many of us, suffering is the antidote to self

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Speaker 3: will and self reliance. And I can do this on

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Speaker 3: my own because it brings us to a place where

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Speaker 3: we go shoot like I am ail and I am

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Speaker 3: weak and and I need God again. You and I've

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Speaker 3: talked about this, but in a lot of ways, it's

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Speaker 3: like fasting. When you take away food and fasting and you,

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Speaker 3: you know, eliminate that for a period of time. It

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Speaker 3: helps you to be reminded of how weak you are

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Speaker 3: without food and how dependent you are on God. And

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Speaker 3: that's why it becomes a great spiritual practice. And when

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Speaker 3: you go through these times of pain and suffering, I

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Speaker 3: think often it's it's kind of like that. It's a

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Speaker 3: reminder that as strong as I have felt, as capable

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Speaker 3: as I have been, things can turn fast. But the

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Speaker 3: one thing that doesn't change is God. And I know

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Speaker 3: he loves me, because the Bible is very clear that

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Speaker 3: he loves me. I know he has a good plan

431
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 3: for me. I don't know when all of that will

432
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 3: come to pass or what that looks like, but you know,

433
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,439
Speaker 3: I can trust that he's going to do exactly what

434
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 3: he wants to do in this and that's man, that's

435
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 3: a powerful place to rest even as you're you're walking

436
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 3: through suffering. You mentioned Job earlier, and I think it's

437
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 3: fascinating the story of Job. For a lot of reasons.

438
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 3: That guy was in chapter one like I'm going to

439
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 3: glorify God in the suffering. You know, halfway through the book,

440
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:11,879
Speaker 3: he's like, I hate all of this, God, why are

441
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 3: you doing this to me? And at the end God's

442
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 3: response was, I do I'm not obligated to tell you why,

443
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 3: and and God brought his purposes back, and so yeah, man,

444
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 3: it's it's it's recognizing this isn't just something to get through.

445
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 3: This is something God's using right now, not that he'll

446
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 3: use later, He's using it right now.

447
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And one thing that that has helped me

448
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 2: in that too is understanding that we serve both a

449
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:51,640
Speaker 2: sovereign God and a suffering God. That's in the unique

450
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 2: thing to hold on to in both your hands. And

451
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 2: I use this this kind of this reference a lot

452
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 2: where I'm holding onto these two things, you know, with them,

453
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 2: you know, kind of unclenched fists, and you know, early

454
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 2: on and still to this day, it's it's hope and healing,

455
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 2: but also trust in the Lord. And this, this sovereign

456
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 2: God and this suffering God are some things that I've

457
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:17,639
Speaker 2: been wrestling with lately. And you know, if God was

458
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:22,360
Speaker 2: just sovereign and not suffering and not a suffering God,

459
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 2: it would be too harsh for me, like I, you know,

460
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be able to handle it because I couldn't

461
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 2: cry out to him. But he's also a suffering God,

462
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 2: a God who stepped into suffering on this earth. And

463
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 2: so I can both trust in his sovereignty, trust in

464
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 2: his will because he's not surprised by my suffering, but

465
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 2: I can also cry out to him because he's been there,

466
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 2: done that, you know, like he's he's lived it, you know,

467
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 2: And we see this in scripture, you know, Job like

468
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 2: you talked about cried out, Jesus cried out, you know,

469
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 2: himself cried out. So I think that allowing yourself to

470
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 2: understand and believe that God is both a sovereign God.

471
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 2: We can trust in his sovereignty and we have full

472
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 2: hope in that sovereignty and what it promises us. But

473
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 2: He's also a suffering God. He cries with us, he

474
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 2: mourns with us. He knows the pain that we are enduring,

475
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 2: and he is walking with us in it. And that

476
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 2: has been something that has really really helped me to

477
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 2: just wrestle with the hardship of this while I still

478
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 2: trust that God is in control and that I can

479
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 2: believe that there will be goodness that comes from this.

480
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 2: You know, Dylan, you know my wife she says this

481
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 2: all the time. She says, this suffering is not for you,

482
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 2: it's just on you. And what she means by that is,

483
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 2: you know, we're praying for healing, and we're praying for miracles.

484
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 2: And Jeremy, we've seen healing and miracles. I have seen

485
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 2: relationships healed as a result of this suffering, relationships that

486
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 2: I needed to heal.

487
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 1: Right.

488
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 2: I've seen my four year old daughter pray prayers like

489
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 2: a like a like an adult, you know. I walk

490
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 2: into the room and watch my son who's kneeling on

491
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 2: his knees by himself, praying, praying to the Lord. You know,

492
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 2: I'll be kneeling on my knees praying, and my son

493
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:34,440
Speaker 2: will come in and he'll kneel next to me and pray.

494
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 2: You know, I've seen my wife cry out to the Lord.

495
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 2: I've seen how my wife has even shaped my view

496
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:48,479
Speaker 2: of suffering through her watching me suffer. I've seen people

497
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 2: who who I you know, have had opportunities to pray

498
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 2: with give their life to Christ because of those prayers

499
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 2: that I would not have had those opportunities if I

500
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 2: was not sick. And so what I want to say

501
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 2: is that the healing hasn't come from my physical body yet,

502
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 2: and I believe it will. But healing and miracles and

503
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 2: blessings have come. And when you're able to pull yourself

504
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 2: back from being in the suffering and you can view

505
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 2: how God is working in the midst of it all,

506
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 2: then it can be life giving to you. And it's

507
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 2: easy to say these things, and honestly, like, I am

508
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 2: sick every day, and there are times and I say

509
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 2: this because I want to be vulnerable, and there are

510
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 2: times when I'm like, I cannot do this anymore. But

511
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 2: it's these moments and these reminders, and it's the Lord

512
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 2: showing up in these ways that continue to allow me

513
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 2: to endure because I know that the Lord is working

514
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 2: out good in this life in the midst of the suffering.

515
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 2: And that is a gift that if I did not have,

516
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 2: I don't think I would be here today, either because

517
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 2: my spirit would have given up and I would have died,

518
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 2: or transparently, I would have ended it myself, you know.

519
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 2: And so that has been something that the Sovereign God

520
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 2: and the suffering God, people who are in a season

521
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 2: of suffering, I would encourage to lean into that and

522
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 2: to see what that means to them, because it has

523
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 2: has really allowed me to view suffering in a different way.

524
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 3: That that point is so important too that even in

525
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 3: the Book of Hebrews, when we're told to come into

526
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 3: the presence of God, that that statement at the end

527
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 3: of chapter four of Hebrews is prefaced with we have

528
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 3: a high priest that understands what it's like to suffer.

529
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 3: And that's the whole premise of so you can come

530
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 3: boldly into the throne room of God. Why because because

531
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 3: our high Priest, Jesus Christ, He's provided that example for

532
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 3: us and.

533
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: What a powerful truth. It's interesting, you know, even here.

534
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 3: You talk about the good things that have come, the relationships,

535
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 3: the the opportunities for testimony, and the rest of it.

536
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 3: I think the world is so desperately seeking for authenticity

537
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 3: and and Christians have an incredible opportunity to demonstrate authenticity

538
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 3: and authentic faith. And yet a lot of Christians don't.

539
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,479
Speaker 3: And so it's at moments when what you say you

540
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 3: believe is put to the test that people step back

541
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 3: and decide whether or not this is real. Because if

542
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 3: it's not real, then they'll bail or you know, it's

543
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 3: job's wife, right, churse God and die. Yeah, but if

544
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 3: it's real, you walk through it, you suffer through it,

545
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 3: you hurt, you are transparent, you are honest. But you

546
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 3: also continue to point people to Christ. And and man,

547
00:30:54,880 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 3: there's a there's a an authenticity that you can't buy,

548
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 3: you can't fake. It's it's real. And people see that.

549
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 3: And I think you know, in your life, a lot

550
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 3: of people have looked at that and gone, man, that's

551
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 3: that's real. That's not just something he says. It's easy

552
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 3: to say you trust God. And you know, I think

553
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 3: of the pictures in the in the octagon after a fight,

554
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 3: where you point to heaven, right, Like, that's easy to

555
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 3: do that after a win. Yeah, it's a whole lot

556
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 3: harder to do that when you're struggling to get through

557
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 3: the day.

558
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely.

559
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 3: And I think the more powerful image is, you know,

560
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 3: pointing heavenward when you're struggling to get through the day.

561
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. I appreciate you saying that because it is hard.

562
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 2: I mean, it's and we've talked about this before that

563
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 2: you know the power of community. And I mean, Jeremy,

564
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 2: you've been on the phone with me in the times

565
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 2: when I've been like, dude, I'm done, man, Like I can't,

566
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 2: I'm done, you know, And so it's important to have

567
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 2: people that surround you that can and you know what

568
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 2: I say is be your arm raisers and your roof breakers,

569
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 2: you know, because there's going to be times whenever you're

570
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 2: really really struggling with that, you know. But if you

571
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 2: but if you if you can just cling to that,

572
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 2: to that, you know, trusting in the sovereign God and

573
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 2: believing in his in his suffering nature, then it can

574
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 2: help you to endure during that process because you know,

575
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 2: you're you're loving a God and you're pointing people to

576
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 2: a God that that understands all. You know, there's nothing

577
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 2: that he has not encountered that he doesn't understand understand,

578
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 2: and he sits in it with you. And so one

579
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 2: of the things that I think is important, you know,

580
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 2: in in surviving or enduring the suffering, is you know,

581
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 2: for me personally, things that have helped me to endure it.

582
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 2: And these these things have kind of developed over time.

583
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 2: Like I said before, it was like I was only

584
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 2: praying for for my earthly healing and I still pray

585
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 2: for my earth the healing and I and I will

586
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 2: not stop. I will continue to wrestle with God until

587
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 2: he blesses me. I mean, that's that's where I'm at,

588
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 2: you know. But don't be afraid to limit, don't be

589
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 2: afraid to sit in your suffering. That was something that

590
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 2: I was really really scared of in the beginning of

591
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 2: just like being afraid to even almost acknowledge how sick

592
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 2: I was, you know where You know, there's two Psalms

593
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 2: thirty nine and eighty eight that are unique to me.

594
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 2: You know, all the psalms are I love the Psalms.

595
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 2: I've spent a lot of time in the psalms, and

596
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 2: they're all you know, the crowd to the Lord is great,

597
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 2: but all of them have like a but you Lord, right,

598
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 2: are my glory, You're in my savior. There's always like

599
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 2: a this this sucks, but God, you know, And thirty

600
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 2: nine and eighty eight don't end like that. Eighty eight

601
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 2: actually ends with darkness. I mean, I think the final

602
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 2: quote is my only friend is darkness. And so when

603
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 2: I was reflecting on these psalms, I'm like, why are

604
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 2: these Where's the hope?

605
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 1: Like that?

606
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 2: Why is these psalms in the Bible? And I think

607
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 2: it's because the Lord is okay with us being in

608
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 2: a place where we're like, Lord, I can't find the hope, Like,

609
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 2: help me with the hope, help me with my disbelief,

610
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 2: because I don't see the hope in this, you know,

611
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 2: because the Bible is the word of God. If he

612
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:25,959
Speaker 2: didn't want those psalms in there, they wouldn't be in there.

613
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 2: And they're in there. And so you have to limit,

614
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 2: you know, you have to be you have to recognize

615
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 2: the pain, you have to name the pain, and you

616
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 2: have to cry out to God to your point. Earlier again,

617
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 2: were talking about Joe A loot because it's just such

618
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 2: a great reflection for what we're talking about. He's mad,

619
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 2: and he's angry, and he's you know, saying all these

620
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 2: things that you're like, why is God not like struck

621
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 2: him down? Because God's not surprised by it, and because

622
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 2: he's crying out to God. He's in a relationship with

623
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 2: the Lord, which is what the Lord wants. He wants

624
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 2: us to be in a really relationship with him, and

625
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 2: it's not some fake, cliche relationship. It's a real relationship

626
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,720
Speaker 2: where all emotions exist that the Lord is not afraid

627
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 2: to hear from us, and so be okay with, you know,

628
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 2: lamenting and crying out, be present in the in the

629
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 2: pain of what you're dealing with. You know, I was

630
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 2: afraid to be present in the pain, afraid to acknowledge

631
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 2: the pain. I was afraid to be present in it.

632
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 2: And when I actually started to you know, realize and

633
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 2: recognize the pain and call it for what it was,

634
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:32,879
Speaker 2: I was, I was actually able to cope with it

635
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 2: as opposed to just being scared of it. And so

636
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 2: that specifically helped me a lot, you know, trusting in

637
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 2: the Lord's provision and hoping for deliverance. You know that

638
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 2: those we talked about that already, to the sides of that,

639
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 2: wrestling with that has been really really powerful for me.

640
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 2: And then one thing that I've been wrestling with lately

641
00:35:55,440 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 2: is is this reflecting on your previous life and grieving

642
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:06,879
Speaker 2: your previous life. Yep, And I I say, you know,

643
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 2: something that I've been saying to myself is like, be

644
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 2: okay with re ordering your love. And this is what

645
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 2: I mean by that. I reflect a lot on what

646
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 2: I wish I would have spent my time on, so

647
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 2: where where my love was before. And that can seem

648
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 2: like a dangerous thing, but I think it's a good

649
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,399
Speaker 2: thing because I think it's the Lord continuing to sanctify us.

650
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,240
Speaker 2: And so for me personally, just just to be you know, open,

651
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 2: Like I had a fighting career and I was trying

652
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 2: to run, you know, a little side business, a tactical

653
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 2: training business, and I was spending times on that. And honestly,

654
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 2: right now, all I wish I was spending time on

655
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 2: was glorifying the Lord in my family. And I think

656
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 2: that's okay to recognize that might be stuck in the

657
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 2: shame or guilt of it. Don't allow yourself to get

658
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 2: stuck in shame or guilt of it, but recognize it

659
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 2: because I think the Lord is revealing something to you

660
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,839
Speaker 2: about your desires and how you can reorder your love.

661
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 2: So I've been able to reorder my love and better

662
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:21,280
Speaker 2: directed towards what I feel like the Lord is asking

663
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 2: me to direct it towards, and that's obviously Him, which

664
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 2: again we could sear and say, like you said earlier,

665
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 2: like I you know, i'd win a fight, and I'm

666
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 2: getting the title wrapped around my belt my waist, getting

667
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 2: the belt wrapped around my waist, and I'm pointing to

668
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,280
Speaker 2: God and I'm you know, I'm here because of God

669
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 2: made me a dangerous man. That was my saying. I

670
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 2: always said, right, and those things are good. There's nothing

671
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 2: wrong with that, you know. And Jeremy Hugh's helped me

672
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 2: with that, like, hey, you were living life and you

673
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 2: were doing your best to glorify the Lord in that life, right,

674
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 2: there's nothing wrong with that. But the Lord is teaching

675
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 2: me how to reorder my love, you know, and that

676
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,839
Speaker 2: has been a gift. So I think that we need

677
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 2: to be okay with that to recognize it, but also

678
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 2: not get stuck there recognizing and grieving who you were

679
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:10,399
Speaker 2: or who you wanted to be or what you could

680
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 2: achieve is a good thing. Getting stuck in the grief

681
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:19,359
Speaker 2: and dwelling on who you were or who you could

682
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 2: have been or what you would have accomplished is a

683
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 2: damaging thing. And so it's a it's a yeah, and

684
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 2: you know it's it's a both. It's a both. So

685
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 2: I think for me that has been really really powerful.

686
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 2: It's to reorder my love and understand how the Lord

687
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 2: is teaching me to do that, but also not to

688
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 2: get stuck because the grace that the Lord gives me

689
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 2: I also need to extend to myself.

690
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so good. I've got a friend. He says,

691
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 3: it's okay to look back, just don't stay there. And

692
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 3: I think, you know, it is instructive because people will go, well,

693
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 3: this is where I am. I'm not looking back or

694
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter. No, you need to reflect on you

695
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 3: know those things. I think it's very very important and

696
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,760
Speaker 3: instructive for us. And are there lessons to be learned? Probably,

697
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 3: But don't get stuck there either. And that's what we're

698
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 3: talking about a little while ago. Is now I'm lamenting

699
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 3: that I got myself into this mess and there's nothing

700
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:16,919
Speaker 3: anyone can do to help me or whatever, like, oh, dude,

701
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 3: you did the best you could with the information you

702
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 3: had at the time, and if you did something that

703
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 3: was contrary to God's will, then again He's faithful and

704
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 3: just to forgive us. That's what the Bible tells us,

705
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,439
Speaker 3: and you move on and move forward. And so yeah,

706
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 3: so helpful to look back, learn the lessons that God

707
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:34,240
Speaker 3: wants us to learn, and then.

708
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 1: To engage with where He's placed us.

709
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 3: And I think people get stuck on one end or

710
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 3: the other of that. Often it's I just can't get

711
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 3: out of that. There is lament, there's grief, there's loss.

712
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 3: I'll never go back to that, or you know, I

713
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 3: wish I could go back to that. We talked to

714
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 3: a lot of veterans, a lot of people who've been

715
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 3: in the military and are now struggling on the other

716
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 3: side of that, and sometimes we talk about post traumatic

717
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:02,280
Speaker 3: stress and combat.

718
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 1: Trauma and those issues.

719
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,800
Speaker 3: What I've learned over the years is that so much

720
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 3: of what people transitioning out of uniform service, whether it's

721
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 3: the military or police and fire, a lot of what

722
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 3: they're struggling with, we call it an identity issue.

723
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:16,879
Speaker 1: It's what you just described though.

724
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:21,280
Speaker 3: It's looking back to that life and asking the question,

725
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,879
Speaker 3: what could have been if I had stayed? What could

726
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 3: have been accomplished? Or I had such an incredible opportunity

727
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 3: and I blew it? Right, it's getting stuck back in

728
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 3: those moments instead of learning from them and moving forward

729
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:36,280
Speaker 3: and letting God work in our lives.

730
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's powerful and it's human nature, right. I mean,

731
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 2: we do that, and that's okay to recognize that. And

732
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 2: I think that that part of the sanctification process, because

733
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 2: this is an ongoing sanctification is forever, right, is the

734
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 2: Lord revealing those things to us. So I think we

735
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 2: need to hang on to them, but we don't need

736
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 2: to just get stuck in them either. You go continue

737
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 2: to you to reflect on them. And I tell you what, Like,

738
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 2: when I'm healed, you know, I can't wait to live

739
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 2: out the reordering of my love. And I'm doing that

740
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 2: now to the best that I can. Right, But I'm like,

741
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 2: that's my biggest prayer. It's like, Lord, let me be

742
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 2: healed so that I can reorder my love, you know,

743
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 2: and live this out. You know, you start, you start,

744
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 2: you know it's hard to not like, you know, you

745
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 2: got to be careful with making deals with God and

746
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,319
Speaker 2: that promiss and recognizing it, you know so.

747
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 3: And certainly you have to not you, but people who

748
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 3: are in the middle of these moments have to come

749
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 3: to a place where you are praying for healing, deliverance,

750
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 3: all of those things, but trusting that God has a

751
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 3: plan and whatever that looks like, I'm going to be

752
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 3: okay with it. So that's I think that's the different right,

753
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 3: I'm not making a deal with God like if you,

754
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 3: then I it's it's learning the lessons so that if

755
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 3: things change, I'm going to live different. I'm going to

756
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,240
Speaker 3: change some things. I'm going to walk this out different.

757
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 3: But where I am right now, I also need to

758
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 3: apply the lessons learned to walk it out to live it.

759
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 3: And whatever happens physically happens, it's the it's the children

760
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 3: of or it's a shadrack me shock can have been

761
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 3: to go right, it's God's going to deliver me from

762
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 3: this one way or the other in the fire out

763
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 3: of it and and you you definitely express that to me,

764
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 3: But I think some people can get caught up in that.

765
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 1: Well. If God will.

766
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 3: I just I can't wait till he does, because then

767
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 3: I can know God's will for your life is in

768
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 3: the moment that you're walking in right now, and he

769
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,240
Speaker 3: has a plan for you right now. It's not a

770
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 3: it's not a waiting until you get there. Yeah, it's

771
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 3: this is where I am. This is what God has

772
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 3: brought me to, and I hope that changes, but even

773
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 3: if it doesn't, this is where I am, and God's

774
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 3: going to use this moment.

775
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 2: In my life. Yeah. Yeah. Something that's been powerful for

776
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 2: me is recognizing that I can't earn my healing right.

777
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 2: And when you say, when you're this sick, you'll do

778
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,839
Speaker 2: anything to earn your healing, even though that's not your mindset, right,

779
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 2: But you have to be careful that it's not your mindset.

780
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 2: They're like, Okay, if I walk through this path of

781
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 2: forgiveness with this person, after that, I'm going to be healed.

782
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 2: Right If I pray this prayer after that, I'm going

783
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 2: to be healed. If if I go to my elders

784
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:43,320
Speaker 2: and my pastor and they anoint me with oil and

785
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 2: they lay hands on me, like scripture says, I'm going

786
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,760
Speaker 2: to be healed. Right if I walk through these steps

787
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 2: of deliverance. Right, Oh, then I'm going to be healed,

788
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 2: right if I if I seek this forgiveness or if

789
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 2: I repent of this, then I'm going to be healed.

790
00:43:58,560 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 1: All right.

791
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 2: Actions that you're putting on yourself that you think that

792
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,240
Speaker 2: if you do these things, you're then going to be healed.

793
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:08,400
Speaker 2: Right now, I'm okay with continuing the thought process of

794
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,439
Speaker 2: like I'm going to continue to remove thorns from my flesh. Sure,

795
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 2: of course, let's keep doing that, like keep and if

796
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 2: the Lord is revealing to you things like hey, here's

797
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:18,359
Speaker 2: the thorn in your flesh, let's remove it. And I've

798
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 2: done that and it has brought blessings to me. That's

799
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,320
Speaker 2: some of the blessings that I've that I shared about earlier,

800
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 2: you know, especially forgiveness side having conversation with specific family

801
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 2: members and specific people you know that have led to

802
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 2: healed relationships. But you can't earn your healing right. And

803
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 2: so one thing has been that I've been reflecting on

804
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 2: is don't try to earn your healing walk in obedience

805
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 2: right without without allowing the outcome to determine whether or

806
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,400
Speaker 2: not you believe God is good. Because God is good,

807
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,720
Speaker 2: let's just walk in obedience, you know, and let hope,

808
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:58,240
Speaker 2: let hope. You know, I have to say this like hope,

809
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:00,360
Speaker 2: you know, we have to live in the pain. We

810
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 2: have to lament, we have to recognize the hurry, we

811
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 2: have to cry out to God. We have to be

812
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 2: real with our emotions because he can handle him. But

813
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 2: hope is the ultimate is the ultimate weapon against the enemy,

814
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 2: and so we also can't lose hope. You know, hope.

815
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 2: Hope isn't denial, it's not pretending things are okay. It's

816
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:26,840
Speaker 2: confidence in God even when we can't see what's happening.

817
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 2: You know, because Jeremy, we've done all the things, like

818
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 2: you mentioned earlier, We've done all the things bro everything

819
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 2: from everything from the medical side, medical side to everything

820
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 2: you know on the spiritual side, We've done them. You know,

821
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 2: I'd be lying if there were times that I said

822
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:50,359
Speaker 2: I didn't feel abandoned. But I have hope and belief

823
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 2: and who God says he is. And I think what

824
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 2: is keeping the enemy from cutting the lights off is

825
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 2: that hope, because that hope is the ultimate light right,

826
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:05,399
Speaker 2: and so we continue to clean on to hope even

827
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 2: in the midst of our deep suffering.

828
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, and your hope in the Lord, your hope in

829
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 3: the eternal nature of God, your hope and his eternal goodness.

830
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 3: It's when we allow our hope to be tied to

831
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:30,439
Speaker 3: external physical of the earth things. That's that's that hope

832
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:35,280
Speaker 3: defert that's when we give up because we look around

833
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 3: and think.

834
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 1: There's nothing here for me.

835
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 3: Well, God is eternally good and God has an eternal

836
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 3: plan for your life. And God doesn't see time in

837
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 3: terms of the eighty or ninety years hopefully that you're

838
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 3: on this earth. He sees it in an internal way.

839
00:46:54,200 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 3: And so, yeah, hope in God is so important. And

840
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 3: I think that a lot of people they lose hope

841
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,879
Speaker 3: because what they put their hope in changes. What they

842
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 3: put their hope in lets them down, What they put

843
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 3: their hope in goes away. And you can see this

844
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 3: from business people to athletes, to people in great relationships

845
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 3: who are no longer in great relationships because someone walked

846
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 3: out on them. Right, what they put their hope in changes,

847
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 3: and so their hope then is gone, which is why

848
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 3: it's so important for us to put our hope in

849
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 3: an eternal God.

850
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such a such a good point you know,

851
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 2: you wonder, you know, you talk to people, and you know,

852
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 2: one person's like, this devastating happened. This devastating thing happened

853
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 2: to me, and that's why I don't believe in God.

854
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 2: Another person, and it could be, you know, nearly the

855
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 2: same exact thing, and they're like, that's why I believe

856
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 2: in God. And so it's interesting that it's you know,

857
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 2: the difference between those who are crushed by their circumstances

858
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 2: and those who endure through it. It's not the pain

859
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 2: they experience itself, it's where they put their hope, yep.

860
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,760
Speaker 2: And as Christians, we put our hope in an internal

861
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,359
Speaker 2: God who is both a sovereign and a suffering God

862
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:21,240
Speaker 2: that came to this earth and died for our sins,

863
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 2: that we get to live an eternal life. And that

864
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 2: is the hope that I'm talking about. Yes, I hope

865
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:30,800
Speaker 2: in my earthly healing, but the hope in an eternal

866
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 2: life where I get to dance and have joy and

867
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 2: eat and be married my loved ones and with Jesus.

868
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 2: That that is the hope. You know that that continues

869
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 2: to drive me forward. Man. Without that, dude, I wouldn't

870
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:48,240
Speaker 2: be here today.

871
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 1: I've told the story before and and.

872
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 3: It's it's one of those moments where I learned so

873
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:01,920
Speaker 3: much by just sitting and watching someone. I was pastoring

874
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 3: a church and there was a family in our church

875
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 3: from the Philippines. The whole family had come here for

876
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,840
Speaker 3: work and different things, and they had a part of

877
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 3: this family, there was a daughter. She was in her

878
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 3: early twenties, and there was a school shooting in this

879
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:19,839
Speaker 3: college and some would remember that she was the receptionist,

880
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 3: so she the story came out. She was basically taken hostage,

881
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 3: and then I think seven people lost their lives and

882
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 3: the person who went into the school, and she was

883
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,360
Speaker 3: one of the ones, probably the first one who was killed.

884
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 3: And so I get the call, Hey, can you come

885
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:38,280
Speaker 3: to the school.

886
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 1: They're trying to sort through all this. We don't know

887
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:40,879
Speaker 1: what's going on.

888
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 3: I met the family there, police came out explained to

889
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 3: us what had happened. So we ended up going back

890
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 3: to that family's family's home, and I didn't know.

891
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 1: What to do. I mean, I was you know, what

892
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 1: do you say?

893
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 3: And they were grieving, as you can imagine, and all

894
00:49:56,719 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 3: of the emotions and all of it well, because they

895
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 3: were a Filipino family. The Filipino Embassy sent some people

896
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:11,319
Speaker 3: to just you know, talk to them and just to

897
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 3: be with them, and it was it was wonderful even

898
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 3: to see that and to understand how that happens. So

899
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:18,879
Speaker 3: you've got the two folks from the embassy, they came

900
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 3: and sat in the living room and I was sitting

901
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,720
Speaker 3: next to them, and the dad who had literally hours

902
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 3: before lost his daughter and this very very tragic way,

903
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 3: is also sitting there and they start to ask him,

904
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 3: you know, what can we do for you? What do

905
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 3: you need from us? And he then started to ask them,

906
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 3: what do you believe about Jesus? Have you ever put

907
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 3: your faith in Christ? And he walks through in the

908
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 3: most authentic way, walks through the gospel, walks through why

909
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:49,359
Speaker 3: he is grieving but has hope because he knows where

910
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:52,359
Speaker 3: his daughter is, And just sitting there, I just thought,

911
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:55,799
Speaker 3: how in the world does someone do that? And it's

912
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 3: because of what you just talked about. It's because of

913
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 3: hope in an eternal God who has an eternal plan.

914
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 1: In living that way, it doesn't.

915
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 3: Make the pain and suffering less painful, It just changes

916
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:11,879
Speaker 3: your whole perspective on it.

917
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely, it does. It definitely makes it

918
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 2: more bearable. And I say that as somebody in the

919
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:23,839
Speaker 2: midst of suffering, you know, because all these things could

920
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 2: sell like we got our heads in the clouds. Yeah,

921
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, you know, we're probably looking at me

922
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 2: and people that are probably hearing this guy says he's

923
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:35,919
Speaker 2: super sick. He doesn't look that sick. I mean, I'm

924
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:38,359
Speaker 2: not here to justify how sick I am, but I'm sick.

925
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 2: I feel like you know, I told you recently, Jeremy,

926
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 2: I think we're if something doesn't change, we're getting closer

927
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 2: and closer to you know, you know, systems completely shut down,

928
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:53,839
Speaker 2: you know. And so I say that as someone who

929
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 2: is in the middle of deep suffering, that I do

930
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 2: not believe that I would be able to endure without

931
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:06,839
Speaker 2: that hope. Yeah, yeah, that's good.

932
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 1: What I mean, we need to finish.

933
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 3: But what what do you tell someone and I know

934
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:14,799
Speaker 3: you've had a lot of these conversations, even recently, what

935
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 3: do you tell someone who's going through an unexpected turn,

936
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:23,840
Speaker 3: they're maybe entering into a season of suffering. You know,

937
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:25,319
Speaker 3: there is a sense in which you need to fight

938
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 3: your way through it, stay, stay in the fight. But

939
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 3: as you mentioned, that's that's not the answer. The answer

940
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 3: is dependence on God and and and trusting him for that.

941
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:35,839
Speaker 3: But what do you say to someone who's entering into

942
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 3: these these seasons of man pain and suffering and difficulty

943
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:45,640
Speaker 3: and confusion and fear and yeah, you know, all the

944
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 3: rest of it.

945
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 1: What do you say to them?

946
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I kind of have to highlight some

947
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:54,359
Speaker 2: of the things that we talked briefly on earlier. It's

948
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:56,799
Speaker 2: just like, be okay with being in it, you know,

949
00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:00,760
Speaker 2: being in the the the hardship of it, and crying

950
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:04,800
Speaker 2: out to God. Don't don't get stuck in the hardship alone.

951
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:08,319
Speaker 2: Cry out to the Lord because he understands your pain.

952
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 2: Don't be afraid to recognize the hurt right, and continue

953
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:17,479
Speaker 2: to take action because because God wants us to take action.

954
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:20,439
Speaker 2: I don't think God wants me to just resign to death, right,

955
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:24,960
Speaker 2: So continue to take action, move forward while you're balancing

956
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:30,320
Speaker 2: the hope that you have in your eternal gift and salvation,

957
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 2: you know. So it's that that wrestle, that constant wrestle

958
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:36,440
Speaker 2: right with the sovereign and the suffering God. The constant

959
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 2: rest wrestle with the hope and the ability that you

960
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 2: can't can be healed on this earthly you know, in

961
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 2: your flesh on earth, but also that you trust God

962
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 2: no matter what happens, right, and those two things as

963
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 2: attention point is really really hard. But if you lean

964
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 2: into those, the Lord will reveal things to you that

965
00:53:55,560 --> 00:54:00,160
Speaker 2: will allow you to endure the suffering that without Without

966
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 2: that reflection, I don't believe you would be able to

967
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 2: endure it, you know. You know, surrounding yourself with strong

968
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 2: community is extremely extremely important as well, people that can

969
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 2: lift you up. That's it. And I can't talk about

970
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 2: that enough, you know. Yeah, And just leaning on the

971
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:21,840
Speaker 2: hope of an eternal life and on a on a

972
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 2: God who understands your suffering and isn't afraid of it.

973
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 2: And it's and it's rawest and most pure emotions. He's

974
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 2: not afraid of it.

975
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 3: That's good. That's good man, that's so good. Thanks for

976
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 3: taking time to talk about it. I know it's not

977
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:41,240
Speaker 3: easy to talk about, but I know it's helpful because

978
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 3: every time we've done one of these episodes, we've done

979
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 3: a couple. Yeah, you know, I get messages from people

980
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 3: saying how helpful it was, and yeah, praying obviously for

981
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 3: healing and deliverance, and just praying that God uses it

982
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 3: in the lives of others. So many people need to

983
00:54:57,680 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 3: hear that message of hoope.

984
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 2: So I'm sharing it absolutely no thanks for thanks for

985
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:06,360
Speaker 2: wrestling with me, Jeremy. I. You know, one of the

986
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 2: greatest gifts is, you know, the Lord has continued to

987
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 2: carry me through the hands and feet of his body

988
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:19,319
Speaker 2: and in one of those people. And so again, I mean,

989
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:24,280
Speaker 2: I can't speak about community enough. It's good. I'm thankful

990
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:26,719
Speaker 2: to have these conversations. And to your point, I pray

991
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 2: that this reaches ears and people hear the good message

992
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 2: and are able to reflect on it and that is

993
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 2: impactful for them, because that's you know, if there's anything

994
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:40,280
Speaker 2: that I can do, I want to, you know, continue

995
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:43,640
Speaker 2: to point people towards the Lord, you know. And there's

996
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 2: a lot of people in this I'll say that the

997
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,799
Speaker 2: last thing. And there's a lot of people in this.

998
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:52,840
Speaker 2: And I felt like this too, like that feel useless,

999
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 2: you know, Jeremy, I can't and we've talked about this.

1000
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:00,560
Speaker 2: I'm hardly able to be a husband and a father

1001
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:06,319
Speaker 2: right now, you know, And so this analogy that's been

1002
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:09,160
Speaker 2: really powerful for me is if I take a basketball

1003
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:12,520
Speaker 2: and hold it in my hand, it's worth twenty thirty

1004
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:15,319
Speaker 2: bucks whatever it costs at the story. You put that

1005
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 2: basketball in Lebron's hands, Lebron James hands, it's worth thirty

1006
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 2: million dollars. I take a football and hold it in

1007
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:24,359
Speaker 2: my hand, it's worth what I got from the store

1008
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:27,399
Speaker 2: twenty thirty bucks. But in Tom Brady's hand, it's worth

1009
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 2: thirty million dollars. If I take two nails, I hold

1010
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 2: them in my hand, I got a way to hammer

1011
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 2: wood together. Put those nails in Jesus hands, and it

1012
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:46,439
Speaker 2: saves the world. If you feel invaluable during your time

1013
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:50,719
Speaker 2: of suffering, know that the value of tool. Of the

1014
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:55,800
Speaker 2: tool is determined by who wields it. Builded by God,

1015
00:56:56,400 --> 00:57:00,480
Speaker 2: then there's nothing that He cannot accomplish through you, no

1016
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 2: matter what the tool looks like. That's good. So I

1017
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 2: continue to walk in that and hope that as a

1018
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 2: tool He uses me to glorify His kingdom because I

1019
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:11,840
Speaker 2: couldn't do it by myself.

1020
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 1: That's good.

1021
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 3: That's good man, Thank you appreciate it. We'll continue to

1022
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 3: have these conversations and again, hopefully prayer is to be

1023
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 3: an encouragement to folks, and if you've been encouraged let

1024
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 3: us know. You can leave a comment, certainly on your

1025
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 3: podcast platform of choice. You can leave a comment on

1026
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 3: YouTube that's helpful to us, so take a look at

1027
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:36,800
Speaker 3: that as well.

1028
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 1: But appreciate you joining and we will talk to you

1029
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 1: next time.