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Speaker 1: Welcome to today's podcast sponsored by Hillsdale College. All Things

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Speaker 1: Hillsdale at Hillsdale dot edu or I encourage you to

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Speaker 1: take advantage of the many free online courses there, and

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Speaker 1: of course I'll listen to the Hillsdale Dialogue all of

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Speaker 1: them at Hugh for Hillsdale dot com or just Google, Apple,

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Speaker 1: iTunes and Hillsdale.

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Speaker 2: Morning, Laura and Emigrace America. I'm Hugh Hewett.

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Speaker 1: A good Wednesday to you, kicking off the program with

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Speaker 1: the jet Fuel Comfortably Smug of the Ruthless Podcast, one

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Speaker 1: of the Fellas and they have been on fire. This

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Speaker 1: week's smug. Merry Christmas, Happy New Year to you. If

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Speaker 1: I don't see you before then I want to.

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Speaker 3: Go to what.

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Speaker 2: Oh thank always. I love having you got the Fellaws on.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how big you are four people have become,

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Speaker 1: but it's gigand enormous and I love it.

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Speaker 3: Should I criticize you.

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Speaker 4: Your first steps you thanks for leading the way.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to criticize you. First.

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Speaker 1: You had Mary Catherine Hamm on for a ride along,

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Speaker 1: and I love hammer. She's gone today as a matter

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Speaker 1: of fact, but you know that's a very anti Ohio

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Speaker 1: State football guest when you bring on a Georgia Homer

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Speaker 1: like Mary Catherine. So I'm going to suggest you need

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Speaker 1: Bernie Marino or dare I suggest JD vance a buck

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Speaker 1: Eye graduate for ride along before they meet in the

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Speaker 1: semi finals.

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Speaker 4: I one hundred percent agree with both of those.

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Speaker 2: JD.

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Speaker 4: We actually just had on I say, maybe a few

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Speaker 4: weeks ago, about a month ago. That was terrific. But

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Speaker 4: I always love to have Bernie on the show. He's

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Speaker 4: one of the hardest working members of the Senate. He's

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Speaker 4: been doing a terrific job. Folks in Ohio is suirly

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Speaker 4: proud of his work.

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Speaker 1: Well, we need we need a Buckeye to counterbalance that

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Speaker 1: bulldog imbalance that went on. Now, let's go to what

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Speaker 1: you guys talked about the collapse of the Democrats.

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Speaker 3: This Swiss music to my ears.

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Speaker 1: Now, you of the four fellows, you're the only coastal elite.

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Speaker 2: You're North Carolina. You're part of the coastal elite.

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Speaker 1: But we've got Minnesota, Indianapolis, and Ohio, and the Ohio

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Speaker 1: balances out the North Carolina.

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Speaker 2: But do you think the Democrats.

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Speaker 1: Are collapsing because their leadership forever has been Nancy Pelosi

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Speaker 1: of San Francisco and Chuck Schumer of Manhattan.

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Speaker 2: In other words, they don't know normal America at all.

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Speaker 4: Yes, And it goes even beyond that. It's basically been

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Speaker 4: a codlock of the Clintons for multiple decades. At this point,

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Speaker 4: you have Obama, and Obama inc Now is a part

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Speaker 4: of that establishment. It's absolutely no different. So you've had

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Speaker 4: Schumer who's been trying to keep this Democrat coalition together,

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Speaker 4: but he's clearly come to the same realization that anyone

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Speaker 4: else can, is that the energy on the left is

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Speaker 4: with this newer, more radical, violent left wing ideology and

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Speaker 4: he's essentially just getting dragged around. They forced him to

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Speaker 4: shut the government down. He thought he'd get some kudos

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Speaker 4: for it, and they're mad that he let it be reopened.

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Speaker 4: And it's all just an attempt for him to prevent

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Speaker 4: AOC from primary him, which honestly, I think she still

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Speaker 4: is going to do.

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Speaker 1: Now, what do you read into the fact that Jasmine

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Speaker 1: Krockett cleared the field? To me, this is one of

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Speaker 1: the more significant political developments in the last many years,

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Speaker 1: is that a loud mouth on TV, she does have sparkle,

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Speaker 1: She does have an ability to attract a viral clip

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Speaker 1: for reasons that are not always good. But for her

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Speaker 1: to clear the field is a concession that the Democrats

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Speaker 1: are insane.

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Speaker 3: That's how I read it.

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Speaker 4: What do you think, Well, I don't know if you

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Speaker 4: saw any of this interesting reporting which has come out

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Speaker 4: today about Jasmine Crockett of how it was essentially the NRSC,

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Speaker 4: the Republican Senate Campaign Committee, which baited her into running

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Speaker 4: because they know she's a disaster of a candidate. And

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Speaker 4: there's now a lot of reporting which has gone out

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Speaker 4: Kudos to the SC because they know Jasmine Crockett is

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Speaker 4: a radical, she's a disaster, and the folks in Texas

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Speaker 4: know pretty clearly that she's a disaster. She cannot win statewide.

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Speaker 4: Now they're going to have to try to make her

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Speaker 4: win statewide.

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Speaker 1: Well, they're going to suck up billions of dollars doing that.

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Speaker 1: I do believe it is possible that she could beat

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Speaker 1: Ken Paxton, because he's a flawed candidate. I like Ken,

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Speaker 1: but he's a flawed candidate. And when you end up

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Speaker 1: with this much money in the state as big as

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Speaker 1: Texas and you get a supercharge left wing, Beto got

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Speaker 1: close to Ted Cruz and Beto's like the worst candidate

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Speaker 1: in American history, And I know what you think about

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Speaker 1: him for Refurrey, but we're not going to indulge that,

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Speaker 1: and we're not going to dolge that. We're gonna deny

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Speaker 1: that that actually is true. And do you think it's

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Speaker 1: possible she could upset Ken Paxton?

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Speaker 4: I don't think Republicans should ever take any race granted

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Speaker 4: for granted. Rather, I think a serious problem the Democrats

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Speaker 4: have had, which explains a tremendous amount of their failures

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Speaker 4: of the past couple of cycles, is taking voters for granted.

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Speaker 4: President Trump, every time he's run did not take a

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Speaker 4: single voter for granted. He ran hard, and he ran

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Speaker 4: wire to wire. You saw Hillary having to learn the

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Speaker 4: hard way what happens when you take voters for granted.

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Speaker 4: And you saw Kamala realize what happens when we take

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Speaker 4: voters for granted. I don't think Republicans should consider any

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Speaker 4: race in the country in the bag or safe until

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Speaker 4: we've gotten fifty plus one.

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Speaker 2: Amen.

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Speaker 1: Now, I want to go to yesterday's political interview with Dasha.

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Speaker 1: At one point, the President stops and tries to explain

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Speaker 1: to her that energy costs drive everything. Everything that is

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Speaker 1: produced has to be transported, has to be made, has

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Speaker 1: to be transported. He will win the prices where I

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Speaker 1: hope the debate stays on affordability.

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Speaker 3: Smart do you?

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Speaker 1: Because I think you produce enough energy, You're going to

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Speaker 1: win that in a course of a year.

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Speaker 4: That's the thing is, this has been one of America's

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Speaker 4: greatest strengths and it's been robbed from us. The tremendous

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Speaker 4: bounty of resources that we have in this country that

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Speaker 4: could power everything we hope to build. The American dream

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Speaker 4: can be powered by the resources we have here, and

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Speaker 4: environmentalists and left wing groups and the Democrats have basically

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Speaker 4: kept us from tapping into it. We have everything we

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Speaker 4: need that we should building nuclear reactors at the same

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Speaker 4: pace that China is. We should be harnessing energy at

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Speaker 4: the same pace that China is. Because President Trump is

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Speaker 4: one hundercent right. The way to drive down costs is

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Speaker 4: to drive down the cost of energy.

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Speaker 1: Tomorrow, there will be a column over at Fox that

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Speaker 1: I wrote about two pipelines that New York State local

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Speaker 1: and state regulators are blocking from Pennsylvania to New England

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Speaker 1: that would carry natural gas from Pennsylvania to New England,

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Speaker 1: where the home heating bills have gone through the ceiling.

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Speaker 1: Do you think Republicans can make the argument to Democrats?

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Speaker 1: Can they break through the barriers of noise and let

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Speaker 1: them the reason you're paying so much for heating oil

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Speaker 1: or gas for your house is that Democrats won't let

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Speaker 1: pipelines be built.

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Speaker 4: I mean, we saw we were able to make this

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Speaker 4: argument with Keystone Excel, and it really got to voters.

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Speaker 4: Voters understood that their costs are being driven up because

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Speaker 4: of these left wing environmentalists fantasies. We need to be

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Speaker 4: building as many pipelines as possible. That's a strong issue

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Speaker 4: to run on, and it's one that Republicans went on.

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Speaker 3: All right, smug.

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Speaker 1: Last question, congratulations on the Ruthless podcast success.

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Speaker 3: It's been an extraordinary year.

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Speaker 1: If Time magazine still met anything, they would put the

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Speaker 1: Ruthless fellows on the cover as the Men of the Year.

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Speaker 1: But they don't mean anything, so they won't be doing that.

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Speaker 1: But my question is do you bear that responsibility now,

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Speaker 1: because especially the younger Demo are taking their cues from you.

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Speaker 1: I think I don't know how big you are, but

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Speaker 1: you guys are enormous are you taking that? You know,

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Speaker 1: you've got to make sure you send them in the

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Speaker 1: right direction on these races.

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Speaker 4: One hundred percent. I mean, one of the things that

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Speaker 4: we do is because we do have such a tremendous

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Speaker 4: audience and we have of all age groups, many young

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Speaker 4: listeners and viewers of our YouTube. One of the things

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Speaker 4: that we really pride ourselves on is what we call

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Speaker 4: candy and vegetables. Yes, you get the vegetables of learning. Okay,

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Speaker 4: this is what the political landscape looks like. Here's how

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Speaker 4: Republicans can win. But we also have candy, We have

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Speaker 4: a good time, We talk sports, you know, just like

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Speaker 4: you're saying about the bias that MK brought to the show.

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Speaker 4: But if you can have a good time and educate

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Speaker 4: your audience, that's the perfect mix that gets people to

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Speaker 4: tune in and it translates into people learning as well

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Speaker 4: as having a good time.

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Speaker 3: It's my New.

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Speaker 1: Year's resolution to spread the word four and wide. Listen

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Speaker 1: and like, like, and subscribe if you wish to appine

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Speaker 1: to the Ruthless Podcast.

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Speaker 2: Smug Happy New Year two and have a Merry Christmas.

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Speaker 4: Merry Christmas. You thanks so much, Like Chrismas.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to America. I'm Hugh Hewett.

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Speaker 1: If you have not ever listened to the third hour

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Speaker 1: of the program, you've never met Sarah Bedford on the program.

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Speaker 1: But if you're watching this on the Salem News Channel

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Speaker 1: or listening on the Salem Radio Network or one of

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Speaker 1: my affiliates, this is Sarah Bedford. She's the political investigative

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Speaker 1: reporter for the Washington Examiner. And Sarah, let's go to

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Speaker 1: that shot of you, because I think I see about

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Speaker 1: a dozen Chris Kringles behind you.

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Speaker 3: There.

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Speaker 2: Is that your passion? Are you a Are you a

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Speaker 2: Santa Claus collector?

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Speaker 5: I'm a Santa Claus collector and my husband collects those

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Speaker 5: creepy New England Carellers, which are also But I three

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Speaker 5: have a battle going on.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, my brother in law worked for Chevron

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Speaker 1: for forty five years as a geologist. Would bring back

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Speaker 1: from everywhere Peru, Nigeria, Mongolia, all the stands, a crush scene.

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Speaker 2: They're all over the world.

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Speaker 1: They're different from all over the world, and they're great

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Speaker 1: when you're collecting them. Wait until you try and give

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Speaker 1: them to your kids, Sarah. They're not going to want

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Speaker 1: that stuff.

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Speaker 2: I'll just leave it behind when.

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Speaker 1: I leave your house, Sarah, I have one big question

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Speaker 1: for you. Will the Congress do anything before they leave

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Speaker 1: for Christmas?

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Speaker 2: Who knows?

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Speaker 5: It's looking less and less likely at this point or proplicans,

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Speaker 5: especially in the House. It can't coalesce around healthcare plan.

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Speaker 5: There's concerns about getting the NDAA over the finish line,

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Speaker 5: so things are looking a little bit messy. And I

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Speaker 5: believe there's what seven seven working days left on Congress's calendar,

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Speaker 5: so it's looking less and less likely now.

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Speaker 1: I don't want a health plan done in seven days.

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Speaker 1: That's a Democrat play. I don't want to discharge petition

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Speaker 1: that could be the knucklehead caucash at work.

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Speaker 3: But I would like.

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Speaker 1: The NDAA that is, like usually the one thing that

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Speaker 1: always gets done. Do you think that might have a

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Speaker 1: chance of coming out of the scrum at the end.

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Speaker 5: It's possible, but Speaker Johnson has lost MTG. It appears

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Speaker 5: at least there on the sort of procedural stage of voting.

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Speaker 5: There's been a lot of drama along the way to

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Speaker 5: get here, right there was the spat between Elie Stephonic

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Speaker 5: and Johnson over an FBI surveillance amendment. There was drama

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Speaker 5: about Speaker Johnson's decision to remove an IVF funding expansion amendment.

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Speaker 5: And so, you know, maybe the most likely thing to

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Speaker 5: get over the finish lines typically that it does end

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Speaker 5: up being bipartisan. That's really a word we don't hear

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Speaker 5: very often anymore here in Washington. But some of the

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Speaker 5: other stuff that Congress was potentially hoping to get done

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Speaker 5: before the end of the year, that is just looking less.

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Speaker 2: And less likely.

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Speaker 1: You know, the NBA has a three point eight percent

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Speaker 1: pay raise for the troops that usually will attract some

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Speaker 1: of the same Democrats. Is that not the carrot that

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Speaker 1: brings some people along, because that actually matters a great deal.

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Speaker 1: If you're an E one and you're barely making it

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Speaker 1: and you're on food supplement assistance, you need that three

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Speaker 1: point eight percent pop.

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Speaker 5: That tends to be the thing that brings people to

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Speaker 5: the table. Right, Like you said, I mean, nobody wants

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Speaker 5: to be the guy that voted against pay raises for

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Speaker 5: the troops. But this vote was supposed to happen today,

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Speaker 5: I believe it's still underway, and the Republicans were having

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Speaker 5: trouble getting the votes together for the rule, which sort

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Speaker 5: of you know, allows the legislation to advance through the

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Speaker 5: process ultimately, though you know, a lot of the hiccups

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Speaker 5: were hopefully ironed out in the week's leading up to this,

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Speaker 5: and it could potentially be the one thing they do

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Speaker 5: get done.

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Speaker 1: All right, now, let me switch over to the President's

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Speaker 1: conversation with dash It from Political yesterday. He spent a

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Speaker 1: lot of time talking about driving down the cost of energy.

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Speaker 1: Secretary Right's going to join me tomorrow, because that is

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Speaker 1: the key to everything. Everything is made with energy, everything

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Speaker 1: is shipped with energy. Without energy, nothing happens with energy.

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Speaker 1: Everything happens in Costs come down. Do Republicans agree on

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Speaker 1: that message. The President made it pretty clear that's the message.

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Speaker 1: We're driving down energy costs by increasing production.

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Speaker 5: I don't think Republicans have coalesced around some sort of

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Speaker 5: affordability message. There's broad consensus that they need to be

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Speaker 5: talking about affordability and they need to do something to

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Speaker 5: do it. But you have some Republicans who want to

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Speaker 5: talk about healthcare affordability. You have others who are like, no, no,

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Speaker 5: we need to focus on the cost of housing. And

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Speaker 5: then you have a President Trump, like you mentioned, making

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Speaker 5: energy affordability the sort of centerpiece of his cost of

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Speaker 5: living conversation. The problem is that that doesn't really coalesce

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Speaker 5: into one sort of cohesive argument necessarily, and voters over

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Speaker 5: the past few years especially are pretty used to have

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Speaker 5: more gimmicky pitches about affordability.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember shrink flation.

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Speaker 5: Under Biden when they talked about how there were less

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Speaker 5: chips in your bag? So the conversation doesn't look and

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Speaker 5: feel like the one that you've had. A lot of

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Speaker 5: politicians in recent years have about the cost of living,

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Speaker 5: and the risk for Republicans is that they're sort of

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Speaker 5: spread out across too many arenas and maybe not focusing

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Speaker 5: enough on one affordability issue.

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Speaker 1: I would take pictures of gas stations everywhere. I was

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Speaker 1: in Fort Worth, Texas last week. The cost of gas

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Speaker 1: as I was driving the airport two forty four a gallon.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you buy the gas in your

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Speaker 1: house or if you do the grocery shopping. I'm allergic

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Speaker 1: to grocery shopping, so I don't know what prices are

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Speaker 1: like in the store. What is the cost of gas

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Speaker 1: in DC? What are growth I walk in DC? I

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Speaker 1: don't actually drive very much So what do you think

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Speaker 1: is affordability now compared to last Christmas.

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Speaker 5: Well, I really want to leave the car on him

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Speaker 5: as often as possible for my husband to fill it up.

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Speaker 2: That's a man's job.

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Speaker 5: But I do know that the cost of gas is

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Speaker 5: far lower in the area than it was under by

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Speaker 5: I mean under Biden it was above, you know, in

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Speaker 5: the high four dollars, above five dollars. Now it's under three.

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Speaker 5: So certainly there are aspects of you know, the cost

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Speaker 5: of living that have come down, but groceries are still really,

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Speaker 5: really high.

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Speaker 2: I do do the grocery shopping.

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Speaker 5: It's kind of obscene how much a single trip to

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Speaker 5: the grocery store can cost you to make dinner for

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Speaker 5: your family. So there are areas where people are still

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Speaker 5: feeling the pinch. And for a while there Trump wasn't

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Speaker 5: really talking about it. Now he is, so perhaps, you know,

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Speaker 5: it's not going to be too little, too late. We're

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Speaker 5: still a year out from the midterms, but it's definitely

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Speaker 5: something that's still top of mind.

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Speaker 2: For most people. They got to talk about it every

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Speaker 2: day all day.

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Speaker 1: Quick exit question, Jasmine Crockett, John Cornini'll kill her.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it just absolutely wipe the floor with her.

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Speaker 1: I think she might be able to beat the Attorney

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Speaker 1: General Ken Paxton.

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Speaker 3: What do you think I.

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Speaker 5: Think even Ken Paxton may be able to win against her.

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Speaker 5: She's really untested with any kind of real scrutiny the

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Speaker 5: way she would be in this kind of race, and

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Speaker 5: so far she's sort of like a further left fringe candidate.

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Speaker 5: There's not a lot of substance there.

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Speaker 1: There's no substance. There's a lot of sparkle, and there'll

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Speaker 1: be a lot of money. That's what worries me about that.

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Speaker 3: Sarah C.

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Speaker 1: Bedford on X and Merry Christmas to you and a

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Speaker 1: happy new Year. If we don't talk before them, but

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Speaker 1: maybe we'll talk next week. Thanks for being here early today, Sarah,

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Speaker 1: I appreciate it very much. I want to tell everyone

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Speaker 1: about Angel Tree. They are a perennial sponsor on our

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Speaker 1: program of a campaign to make sure that every child

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Speaker 1: they're one and a half million children in America who

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Speaker 1: have a parent or two in prison this Christmas. Angel

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Speaker 1: Tree is a ministry of prison Fellowship. Your contributions to

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Speaker 1: it are absolutely tax deductible, but that's not the reason

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Speaker 1: people give. Hundreds of you gave yesterday because you heard

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Speaker 1: the lines I'll play line this next hour again and it.

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Speaker 3: Touched your heart.

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Speaker 1: But right now I would like you to give a

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Speaker 1: listen to one of the great people who work for

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Speaker 1: work with me in raising the awareness of Angeltree, Trish Reagan.

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Speaker 6: I have three little kids and I was telling them

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Speaker 6: about the Angel Tree program and how important it is

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Speaker 6: and this week especially, we should all just take a

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Speaker 6: moment to think how lucky we are. But what about

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Speaker 6: the little kids out there who don't even have a

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Speaker 6: parent right now because they have a parent that is

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Speaker 6: incarcerated in prison. And it's not the little kid's fault.

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Speaker 6: It's so important right now to the kids to meet

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Speaker 6: everyone here at Salem. We all want to do our part.

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Speaker 1: One of the reasons we love Angel Tree is that

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Speaker 1: everybody here that I know in the Salem family have

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Speaker 1: children and we can't imagine and some of us have

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Speaker 1: grandchildren and we can't imagine them not being with us

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Speaker 1: on Christmas when they were small.

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Speaker 2: But that's a reality.

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Speaker 1: So if you could go to the banner at the

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Speaker 1: top of hehewet dot com and make a donation to

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Speaker 1: Angel Tree, thirty dollars take care of another child sixty

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Speaker 1: two children, three hundred and ten children. You can go

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Speaker 1: to the banner at the top of hhewet dot com,

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Speaker 1: or you can call triple eight chwooh six twenty seven

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Speaker 1: sixty four. It's triple eight chwooh six twenty seven sixty four,

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Speaker 1: Triple eight six twenty seven sixty.

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Speaker 2: Four, or the banner at the top of huge at

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Speaker 2: dot com.

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Speaker 3: Come right.

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Speaker 2: It's the best time of the year.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if they're working back America. It really

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Speaker 1: is the best time of the year unless you're a

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Speaker 1: member of Congress or one of those who have to

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Speaker 1: be concerned with what they're doing, as is Laurence Stewart,

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Speaker 1: Senior Fellow Affairs Liaison for Americans for Prosperity AFP is

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Speaker 1: one of our great sponsors. Lauren, you have to work

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Speaker 1: pretty hard because they're trying to fix the catastrophic mess

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Speaker 1: that is Obamacare.

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Speaker 3: I'm afraid of the fix.

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Speaker 1: It's like surgeon by a person who's never done it before.

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Speaker 1: What's going on in the hill and what makes you

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Speaker 1: happy and what worries you? What if you found out.

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Speaker 7: Well in terms of fixing American healthcare. I feel like

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Speaker 7: I have excellent jobs security because there's a lot of

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Speaker 7: work to do. What's in front of us now is

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Speaker 7: what has been in front of us really since September,

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Speaker 7: and that is the expiration of the Biden COVID credits

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Speaker 7: really quick. Those were a pandemic error emergency measure that

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Speaker 7: basically removed any verification income caps on who could get

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Speaker 7: free subsidized health insurance through the federal government. The Democrats

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Speaker 7: put these in place, they extended them, and they also

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Speaker 7: set their expiration, which is upcoming at the end of

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Speaker 7: this year. This is what they shut down the government

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Speaker 7: over was a full permanency of this program that cost

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Speaker 7: cost taxpayers forty billion dollars a year. That money flows

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Speaker 7: directly from the United States Treasury into the pocket books

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Speaker 7: of insurance companies, so it is not a traditional tax

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Speaker 7: credit in the way that individuals or families see that benefit.

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Speaker 7: It goes directly to insurers. And what we found over

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Speaker 7: the last three months since we've last spoken Hugh is

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Speaker 7: even deeper and more disturbing aspects of waste broaden abuse

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Speaker 7: within the program. So Democrats tomorrow in the Senate are

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Speaker 7: putting forth a three year clean extension of this mistroom

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Speaker 7: the condition to open the government and now Republicans actually

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Speaker 7: have an alternative plan.

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Speaker 3: No one can say that they don't have a plan in.

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Speaker 7: Terms of ways to lower costs.

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Speaker 8: But that's where we are right.

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Speaker 2: Now now, Lauren.

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Speaker 1: I am aware that Obamacare screwed a bunch of people.

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Speaker 1: They ended up in state exchanges where the prices are

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Speaker 1: skyrocketing because they're badly built. They're not an intrastate interstate,

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Speaker 1: They're just one state at a time. So I'm not

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Speaker 1: against providing a tax credit to people in a mains

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Speaker 1: tested in a small range of people who got screwed,

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Speaker 1: But this forty billion dollars a year, this is nonsense.

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Speaker 1: We can't afford that. Is there any way that the

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Speaker 1: Congress votes for that.

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Speaker 7: So on the Republican side in the Senate certainly not.

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Speaker 7: They held really strong under the leadership of Leader Tho

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Speaker 7: and throughout the shutdown, and we're in the same spot

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Speaker 7: we were Inetember post a forty three day shutdown on

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Speaker 7: this issue. And additionally, like I mentioned, Republicans have their

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Speaker 7: own plan focused on empowering and funding American families and patients,

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Speaker 7: not insurance companies and government bureaucracies. So that is something

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Speaker 7: that I think you will see a lot of Republicans

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Speaker 7: unite around in the vote tomorrow, and it will be

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Speaker 7: very clear to the American people where senators stand. Are

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Speaker 7: you standing with insurance companies or are you standing with

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Speaker 7: American patients and families.

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Speaker 1: Now, I don't mind insurance companies. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: throw money at them. I want them to compete on

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Speaker 1: price with transparency, and I don't want to force people

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Speaker 1: into ridiculous plans and the bad exchanges. Has anyone on

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Speaker 1: the Democratic side suggested, okay, that was a temporary measure.

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Speaker 1: Let's meet somewhere towards the Republican proposal. Is there a

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Speaker 1: negotiation going on? And is a different way of asking that?

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Speaker 1: Are they being reasonable?

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Speaker 3: No, they never were being reasonable.

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Speaker 7: It shows that this proposal is entirely un serious and

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Speaker 7: entirely irresponsible. Just to give you an example, a report

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Speaker 7: from the Government Accountability Office last week uncovered that thousands

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Speaker 7: of invalid and unused Social Security numbers were receiving the

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Speaker 7: premium tax credits.

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Speaker 3: One social Security number.

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Speaker 7: Is used one hundred and twenty five times and another

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Speaker 7: was used for over seventy one years of coverage. All

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Speaker 7: of these aspects have been exposed and the three year

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Speaker 7: clean extension is just emblematic of the way that Democrats

444
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 7: were never actually wanting to negotiate on this. It wasn't

445
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,840
Speaker 7: about a policy issue for them. It wasn't about lowering

446
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 7: costs for the American people. We know an extension makes

447
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,680
Speaker 7: premiums continue to increase, as we've seen since the implementation

448
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,359
Speaker 7: of Obamacare. Their plan all along was not to negotiate

449
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:42,000
Speaker 7: on this front.

450
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:45,080
Speaker 1: Lauren Shirret, you and Americans for Prosperity have been doing

451
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,240
Speaker 1: this for a while. Do you think maybe after the

452
00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:53,080
Speaker 1: unemployment fraud volcano in California between twenty and thirty billion

453
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:57,600
Speaker 1: dollars during COVID of unemployment claim fraud, the Somali community

454
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,679
Speaker 1: fraud in Minnesota that has led to indict and conviction,

455
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,840
Speaker 1: and now what you just referenced about the socialida, do

456
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 1: you think the American people are onto the fact that

457
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 1: government is easily defrauded and that con men and women

458
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:10,440
Speaker 1: take advantage of it.

459
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:13,280
Speaker 3: One thousand percent.

460
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 7: If you want to talk about an eighty twenty issue,

461
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 7: If you ask voters who knows how to best run

462
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,639
Speaker 7: or take care of their family's healthcare, they'll say one

463
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:22,959
Speaker 7: hundred percent they know how to better do it. Than

464
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,119
Speaker 7: the insurance companies or the government. This is the crux

465
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 7: of the problem is the government has made their involvement

466
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,639
Speaker 7: in such issues so large it is a dark hole,

467
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 7: can of worms, of fraud.

468
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:35,679
Speaker 8: Of waste, and abuse.

469
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,399
Speaker 7: And the biggest thing at the crux of that is

470
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,920
Speaker 7: that it's unfair to the people that these programs were

471
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 7: intended to help.

472
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 1: I hope people go to Americans for Prosperity dot org,

473
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,959
Speaker 1: triplew dot Americans for Prosperity dot org.

474
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,119
Speaker 3: Stay abreast of this discussion. Lauren.

475
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 1: I hope you have a merry Christmas. I hope you

476
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 1: don't have to work up the Christmas Eve like as

477
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 1: those scrooge We're your boss, but I know you're in

478
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,680
Speaker 1: it for the good fight. Thank you for me today,

479
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 1: Americans for Prosperity dot Org go and join friends.

480
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 2: Come right back, Welcome back, America.

481
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 1: I'm Hugh Hewett. I want to warn you the arc

482
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 1: of this segment is going to go from happy, joy

483
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 1: filled funny to very serious indeed, so be prepared. First,

484
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 1: we start with the happy Mary Katherine Hammer's back as

485
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 1: is getting hammered. She's hosted getting Hammered. Her co host

486
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: Vic Matis was here earlier. I have now listened to

487
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 1: the episode. It's brilliant as always. Mary Katherine, I'm so

488
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 1: glad it's back, but you're not. You don't have a

489
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 1: sponsored so I have a couple of sponsor suggestions, and

490
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,439
Speaker 1: maybe you ought to ask the audience. I think the

491
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 1: Distilled Spirits Counsel of America should sponsor Getting Hammered.

492
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 3: What do you think?

493
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 9: This is a very good idea. Think this is why

494
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,439
Speaker 9: we need you around, Hugh, for so many reasons, but

495
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,640
Speaker 9: especially this one. I'm writing it down as we speak.

496
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,479
Speaker 1: All right, there's one other association, the Potato Chip and

497
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 1: Snack Food Association. Now, but the pescial missus Hewett was

498
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 1: in in the world of association many many decades ago,

499
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 1: so I know there are many, but those two fit

500
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 1: you too perfectly, Distilled Spirits, Potato chips and stack food good.

501
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 1: Now I have a beef. When last I saw you,

502
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 1: I was leaving a Christmas party to go watch the

503
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 1: Ohio State Buckeyes lose. You were entering a Christmas party

504
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 1: having watched the Georgia Bulldogs win.

505
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 2: I think you may have been celebrating.

506
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:36,199
Speaker 9: Had you been celebrating, I celebrated all night, although not

507
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 9: very hard because I'm too old for that now. But

508
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 9: I was very excited to have held Alabama to negative

509
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 9: three rushing yards. That is a stat that will live

510
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 9: forever in my house, in my head, it will never

511
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 9: be gone.

512
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 3: Now.

513
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 1: I want to warn people there's an iceberg out there,

514
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 1: and there's a titanic over here. The iceberg is Ohio

515
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: State and the Titanic is Georgia, and they're in the

516
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 1: same bracket. They'll meet in the semi finals. Will we

517
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 1: be on speaking terms come February?

518
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 9: Mary Catherine, you know, life has brought me a lot

519
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 9: of perspective, and from that, all those experience, I can say, no,

520
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 9: we won't.

521
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: Maybe just bick twice last week, but getting hammered is back.

522
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 1: Everyone go back. It's back on a weekly basis. We're

523
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 1: so relieved. The fetching missus Hewett. Before she left to

524
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,640
Speaker 1: go drive to see the grandkids today for a two

525
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: day helpout, she said, I've got Mary Catherine, but she

526
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 1: was excited, a brilliant that's the good one.

527
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 9: I'm so glad. We're going to do it. We're doing

528
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 9: it once a week. We will try to add more

529
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,360
Speaker 9: content as we go. We love having you guys, listen, subscribe,

530
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 9: review it, help review the show. It helps us out

531
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 9: immensely as we get this thing back off the.

532
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 1: Ground, and any association out there that really wants to

533
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 1: hit all of the demos, I mean all of the demos,

534
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: from the youngs to the olds, the Distilled.

535
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 2: Spirits Counsel, it's got your name on it.

536
00:25:58,480 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 3: Now.

537
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 1: I have appreciated greatly your defense of Erica Kirk this

538
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: week as a widow, yourself, as someone who has gone

539
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 1: through the incredible pain of having small children and losing

540
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 1: your husband. I'm a gasp, But I don't have the

541
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 1: authority to speak to this as you do, so how

542
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 1: angry are you? You might explain to the audience what's

543
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: going on if they're not very online.

544
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 9: Yes, okay, So from the very beginning, as soon as

545
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 9: Charlie passed away, obviously my heart was with Erica Kirk

546
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 9: because I have been through a similar situation where I

547
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 9: publicly grieved and had two young children to raise, and

548
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 9: I knew she was going to be in for a

549
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,679
Speaker 9: hard experience, but it's been made harder by the criticism

550
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 9: that she has received from all sectors, by the way,

551
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 9: including people of the I would say former right who

552
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 9: claim to be Charlie's friends and at one point her friends,

553
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 9: I believe, And it's just really dark stuff. It's all

554
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 9: judging how she's grieving, what she's doing, where she engages,

555
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 9: where she did. And this happened a bit to me

556
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 9: because if you do it in public, people think if

557
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 9: you're you actually sort of are disadvantaged by looking strong,

558
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 9: which I'm.

559
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 4: Sure she has.

560
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,199
Speaker 9: She has her moments, trust me, having been through that,

561
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 9: she has her moments, but she's been sort of transcendently

562
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 9: strong on a public stage, and people use that as

563
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,439
Speaker 9: a mark against you, as if it's somehow inauthentic because

564
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 9: you are out there and speaking well. I liked to

565
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 9: tell my story after my husband died. It it made me

566
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,120
Speaker 9: feel like I was writing my own destiny. I too,

567
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 9: was led by my faith. You can see how strengthened

568
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,919
Speaker 9: she is by God and her faith, and I think

569
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 9: that's what's giving her the ability to do this. I

570
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 9: would also like to note those who criticize her. They're like, oh,

571
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 9: she's out there smiling, she's out there speaking again. They

572
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 9: say she's a public figure, so she's not immune to criticism. Okay,

573
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 9: have any of those criticisms been policy or politics based,

574
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 9: hardly any right. It's all personal. And I would like

575
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 9: to say she is a public figure because her husband

576
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 9: was brutally murdered in cold blood and she is now

577
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,360
Speaker 9: stepping into the shoes of her husband as the rightful

578
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 9: inheritor of his legacy to communicate it because she believes

579
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 9: in it, as they were unified in this and that

580
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,919
Speaker 9: was made necessary by this horrific thing. And so to

581
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 9: attack her for the fact that she is doing it,

582
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 9: and by the way, while doing it, boxing out other

583
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 9: people who are trying to take ownership of this legacy

584
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 9: who are not Kirks, I think is a really messed

585
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 9: up thing to do.

586
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: Americ Catherine, you and I are both believers in Christianity

587
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: in the Gospel, and I believe the Christian's grieve in

588
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 1: a variety of ways. But I do believe as well

589
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 1: the God of everything does not take lightly. People who

590
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: exploit the grief of others. Mourn with those who mourn,

591
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 1: don't mock those who mourn. It's sort of like, did

592
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,719
Speaker 1: they miss Season two of The Chosen. It's not that

593
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: hard to do to just have grace about the grieving.

594
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 9: It's really not, and it seems like a very low

595
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 9: bar just to say, like, hey, don't say really overtly

596
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 9: mean stuff about the recent widow who, by the way,

597
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 9: her husband's murder was broadcast. I mean, it's just this

598
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 9: is just beyond sick what happened to her, and then

599
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 9: to make it even worse, and probably by attacking her

600
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 9: in this manner is so terrible. And again, you saw

601
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 9: her on Fox today just being as strong as one

602
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 9: could possibly be and as clear as one could possibly be.

603
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 9: And I love the idea where she said she's not

604
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 9: going to answer every criticism because she is busy building.

605
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 2: She is busy building, and she doesn't.

606
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 9: Just mean turning points, she means her family, like she

607
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 9: has work to do. And I just think she has

608
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 9: done a fantastic job communicating that. And I'm so sorry

609
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 9: that she has to play defense in this manner, but wow,

610
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 9: she's skilled at it.

611
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: Exit quick question, Mary Catherine, I do not retweet or

612
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: criticize are mentioned by name the people who are tormenting

613
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: her and in any of their exploits. What's your theory

614
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: about to lead them unanswered? I think they will fade

615
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 1: away if they are not spoken of, so I never

616
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: speak of them.

617
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 9: It's This is very, very tough because the kind of

618
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 9: people who shop in conspiracy theories and who torment Erica

619
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 9: Kirk and the other good friends of Charlie who worked

620
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 9: at a Turning Points, they live in an attention economy

621
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 9: and their personalities are such that they are thriving on attention.

622
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 2: So it's hard to know whether to address it.

623
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 9: But I think that was a brushback pitch that Erica

624
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 9: gave today, and I hope it works.

625
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 2: I will be proud.

626
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: I hope it was more than a brushback. I hope

627
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: they got first base, but it left the mark. Mary

628
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 1: Catherine Ham still my friend until the Buckeyes and the

629
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 1: Bulldogs meet down the road. Thank you and welcome back

630
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: Getting Hammered. Talk to next week, Mary Catherineham. Follow on

631
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: ACTU MK hammer Like and subscribe to Getting Hammered and

632
00:30:58,920 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: stay tuned.

633
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 3: Lady Side Walks, Busy Side Walks, Invested, Holidays Style.

634
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,479
Speaker 2: Morgan Back America. I'm Hugh Hewitt.

635
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: Years ago, the late Great Foster Freeze introduced me to

636
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: my next guest, Norton. Rainey Norton runs a scholarships. I'm

637
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,239
Speaker 1: glad to welcome him back to the program. Norton how

638
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: have you been and where are you?

639
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 10: Hey?

640
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 2: Terrific.

641
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 10: It's good to see you, Hugh.

642
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 11: I'll tell you what hearing Foster's name makes me smile.

643
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 11: I love that man. He was one of the most

644
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 11: remarkable men in this country we have ever seen, giving

645
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 11: away close to six hundred million dollars over the course

646
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 11: of his lifetime. And he just en handsd my life.

647
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 11: He enhands allies as so many kids. And I'm in Denver, Colorado.

648
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 10: It is really good to see you, Hugh. It's been

649
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 10: too long.

650
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 3: Oh, thank you, Norton.

651
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: I want people to know that not only did he

652
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: back you, Foster back Charlie Kirk. Early on, Foster backed

653
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: pretty much every good person with a great idea that

654
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: was out there. He and Lynn among the most generous Americans.

655
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 1: Hope someday they maybe already got the Medal of Freedom,

656
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: but they deserve it. Uh, Norton, how goes age? Bring

657
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: people up to speed on what Ace does? And you're

658
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: rolling in how it's doing.

659
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 11: Oh, I'd be happy to h Would you mind if

660
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 11: I say a quick story about Foster freezing Charlie Kirk?

661
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 10: Would that be okay?

662
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 3: Oh? Please?

663
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 10: How about thirteen.

664
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 11: Years ago Foster would host this hunting trip for all

665
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 11: these great leaders around the country, and he would bring

666
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 11: people together who were influencers and young people as well too,

667
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 11: who he thought could make a difference. And I'll never

668
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 11: forget this one trip where this young kid walked in

669
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 11: and it was Charlie Kirk, and I just assumed he

670
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 11: was a kid of one of the guys on this

671
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 11: trip who was really important as a business leader.

672
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 10: And that night, Foster stands up and.

673
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 11: Says, Okay, guys, I got this really special person that

674
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 11: you need to meet, and he said, I met him

675
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 11: at the Republican National Committee. He's a young kid who

676
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 11: has a great vision for where America can be someday.

677
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 10: And his name is Charlie Kirk.

678
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 11: And the next thirty minutes we sat there mesmerized we

679
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 11: had some of the great influencers on our country and

680
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 11: he would basically just be eating out of the palm

681
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 11: of his hand listening to this amazing young kid. And

682
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 11: then of course we all stayed in touch and we

683
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 11: saw what he did at a national level, and Charlie

684
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 11: and I had the great honor of speaking at Foster's

685
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 11: funeral four years ago, and I always say thank God,

686
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 11: I spoke first.

687
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 10: And then Charlie went after me.

688
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 2: Ah, thank god I did.

689
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: I've never heard this. I had no idea that you

690
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: two had connected through Foster. That's fabulous. I'm glad that's

691
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: providential that you're on the program with me to say that,

692
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: tell that story. Foster Freeze was just a great man.

693
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 3: He did that.

694
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 2: He connected people.

695
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 11: He did He was the best. He cared about people.

696
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 11: He would just write checks. And the year he passed away,

697
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 11: he actually gave away ninety million dollars and he let

698
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 11: all his friends give one hundred thousand dollars away. He

699
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 11: didn't ask where that money was going. He just said,

700
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 11: give where you want. And Charlie Kirk was one of

701
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 11: the big guys. He fact he wrote the very first

702
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,959
Speaker 11: check to Turning Point USA. And then Charlie and I

703
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 11: we stayed in touch and he was a big believer

704
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 11: in the work Ace was doing. We saw each other

705
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 11: four months ago and askeding for his cos and we

706
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 11: were about way to partner and talk about ways we

707
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 11: could launch this federal tax credit. He was all in

708
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 11: on education in America. I miss him, and you know what,

709
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 11: we need to work hard to keep his legacy alive

710
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 11: because he was the best person and what he did

711
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 11: in our country is just remarkable.

712
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and he would be excited about the federal tax credit.

713
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,399
Speaker 1: And I don't know if you're going to explain that today,

714
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: if you're just going to tell people about ACE, because

715
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: I don't think the federal tax credit kitchen un till

716
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:28,240
Speaker 1: twenty seven does.

717
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 11: It no, But we're ramping up as our other organizations

718
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 11: like ACE around the country. This year, President Trump signed

719
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 11: in the Big Beautiful Bill, a component of the federal

720
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 11: school Choice tax.

721
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 10: Credit that is long overdue.

722
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 11: That means in twenty twenty seven, all fifty states in

723
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 11: the country while have an opportunity to participate in school choice.

724
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,840
Speaker 11: And that means every tax payer in America can actually

725
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 11: contribute up to seventeen hundred dollars to a qualifying organization

726
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 11: like ACE. And that means we can go from serving

727
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 11: one hundred of thousands of kids currently to millions of

728
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 11: kids in twenty twenty seven and truly having a life

729
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 11: change and impact in the lives of families filling seats

730
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 11: in our private schools. This money can also be used

731
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 11: for before and after school programs in public schools. But

732
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 11: really cute, it's a game changer because we finally had resources.

733
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 10: To put families where they want to be, and that's our.

734
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 11: Kids and high quality schools and also values that align

735
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 11: with theirs.

736
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 1: I've always told people about ACE, and I've always said

737
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 1: it's the simplest of ideas. There are great private schools

738
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: that have empty desks. All the infrastructure exists, the teachers

739
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: have been trained, the curriculum is good. All they need

740
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: is the tuition to put the kids into the empty chairs,

741
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 1: into the empty desks, and that's what ACE does. Has

742
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: the mission involved at all since I first heard.

743
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 11: It, well, we were founded twenty five years ago. We've

744
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 11: given one hundred and twenty one thousand scholarships to lower

745
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 11: income parents to put their kids in the private K

746
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 11: through twelve school that's right for them, and we've had

747
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 11: astounding success. Ninety nine percent of our kids graduate. Almost

748
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 11: everyone goes to college, usually the first in their family,

749
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 11: and they're really bucking the odds. Kids like this in

750
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 11: their neighborhoods, who are making fifty thousand per year or

751
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 11: less are not doing well in school. And when we

752
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 11: get our kids and put them on scholarship, they're normally

753
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,760
Speaker 11: two years behind academically but we have these beautiful, amazing

754
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 11: private schools that.

755
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:28,399
Speaker 10: Care about the kids.

756
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 11: They wrap them around and they educate them where they

757
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 11: can actually be proficient in math and reading and once

758
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 11: again also be a part of a school that really

759
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 11: shares our value structure. So we do that the old

760
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,839
Speaker 11: fashioned way by raising money helping out families. We've got

761
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 11: thousands of families every year we see known too, which

762
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,320
Speaker 11: is really a travesty. And then we also manage state

763
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,240
Speaker 11: tax pre programs around the country, which is really cool.

764
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 11: In Louisiana, Montana, Kansas and Arkansas. If you live in

765
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 11: those states, you can actually give to ACE and claim

766
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 11: a state tax, which is a really great way to give.

767
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 1: So broadcaster coming out here, let's give the address of

768
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 1: ACE three times Norton so people find the right website

769
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: and not a make believe website that happens too often.

770
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: Where should people to find out more about Norton, about ACE,

771
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 1: and about the tax credit.

772
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 11: ACE scholarships and that is plural with ains dot org.

773
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 11: So ACE Scholarships dot org. We would be honored to

774
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 11: work with you. We can for three thousand dollars per

775
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 11: year put a kid in the school. We can guarantee

776
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 11: their success based on twenty five years of our track record,

777
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 11: and also too, we want to know about you and

778
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 11: your interest because in twenty twenty seven, you're gonna have

779
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 11: the ability to claim a seventeen hundred dollars federal tax credit,

780
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 11: and that's a game changer for you and also for

781
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 11: a country and the families we serve.

782
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 2: It is truly remarkable. I didn't even know.

783
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: I think Ted Cruz came up with the idea or

784
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: he got it into the legislation. I've already thanked the

785
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,240
Speaker 1: Senator for that, but I'll bet you you were working

786
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 1: on that behind the scenes.

787
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:05,879
Speaker 3: Orton.

788
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 1: How stable is the You've been there for as long

789
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: as I've known about A so obviously you're committed to

790
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: the mission. Are you still surrounded by the same wonderful

791
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 1: people I met through Foster years ago?

792
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 10: Yes, sir, we are, And that's really the reason why

793
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 10: ACE exists.

794
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,839
Speaker 11: We have remarkable people who've been blessed to make money

795
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 11: and they want to make a difference in our society.

796
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 11: And we have been able to expand at thirteen states,

797
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 11: and this year we've got close to sixteen thousand students

798
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,839
Speaker 11: on scholarship. So remarkable people who've been blessed, they want

799
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 11: to support support kids. And I always say that that's

800
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 11: what makes America such a great country.

801
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 10: That's the reason why we can show over and over.

802
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 11: Again that capitalism and free markets work when people are

803
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 11: empowered to succeed and they make money. These are the

804
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 11: most generous people because they want to strong economic workforce,

805
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 11: and they don't recognize that that begins with a good education.

806
00:38:58,239 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 11: We have a lot of issues in our country, but

807
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 11: if you can solve education and make sure that kids,

808
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 11: regardless of where they come from and then if they're

809
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 11: in a poor zip code, don't have the resources to

810
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 11: go to a good school, if we can level that

811
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 11: playing field, it's really good for a country and it

812
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 11: means that all boats will rise. And that's what we

813
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 11: seek to do, is making sure that every kid in

814
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,320
Speaker 11: America receives a great education.

815
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 10: So we're just really privileged and proud the work we do.

816
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 10: And Hugh, I want to thank you. I've been a

817
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:25,240
Speaker 10: great supporter.

818
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,399
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Norton, thank you for coming on.

819
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 1: Let's do this a few more times as we ramp

820
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 1: up to twenty twenty seven. And I say the state

821
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,439
Speaker 1: legislators out there, if they want a shurfa to get

822
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:40,479
Speaker 1: their organization set up, called Norton, Rainey at Ace. He'll

823
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: walk it through it America, Christmas, Norton, don't go anywhere America.

824
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 3: I'll be right now.

825
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 2: Welcome back America.

826
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 1: I'm counting on Selena Zito America's columnists to have so oh,

827
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: there are Christmas decorations behind her. I hadn't seen the shot.

828
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 3: What do we got?

829
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: We show that shot for me, Harley, so we can

830
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: see what we got. By there, we've got mixing mixing bowls.

831
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 2: More than how many mixing bowls do you have?

832
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 12: I have four grandchildren. I have four mixing bowls.

833
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: Well, that actually makes sense. And you had a sleepover,

834
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 1: I see because I follow you on X and your

835
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 1: youngest one I think was looking a little tussle.

836
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 3: Here this morning when you posted him. Just a big

837
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 3: tussle here.

838
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 1: Selena, walk me through the next ten days or so

839
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 1: till Christmas. What does the Zito clan have to do

840
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 1: between now and.

841
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 8: Then, Well, we have a lot of cookies to bake.

842
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 8: We have a lot of rum cakes to make.

843
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 12: Usually those are given out to presents, to family members

844
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 12: and to neighbors and to friends and I make sure

845
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 12: that the kids, the grandkids make all of that, and

846
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 12: about five days before Christmas, we start the preparation for.

847
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 8: The Feast of the Seven Fish.

848
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 12: And if anybody's familiar with that, that is something that

849
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 12: comes from the old country in Italy, in particular the

850
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 12: southern more poor sections.

851
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,359
Speaker 8: And the Feast of the Seven Fish.

852
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 12: You're supposed to present seven different fish for dinner on

853
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 12: Christmas Eve. It is supposed to be a harbinger of

854
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 12: good luck for the rest of the year. And so

855
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 12: it's a tradition that my grandmother did. She passed away

856
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 12: in nineteen seventy six. I took it up myself as

857
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 12: an adult in nineteen eighty four, and I've consistently served

858
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 12: it for my family and neighbors and friends stop in

859
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 12: as well.

860
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 1: I got a couple of questions. I got questions. I'm

861
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: not a fish person, so I'm just wondering, is there

862
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 1: pasta anywhere?

863
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 2: And who's doing the bread?

864
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,320
Speaker 8: Oh, of course there's pasta.

865
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 2: Okay.

866
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 12: We have home inge fuzilli along with sauce and brgol,

867
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 12: which is stuffsteak with homemade meatballs. There's also a plant

868
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 12: armagon and stuff. Todd Pepper's and there's several different pastas

869
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:09,959
Speaker 12: that are served as well.

870
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: I mean, so, Selena, I'm not your agent, I'm not

871
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 1: your publisher. You have a number one New York Times

872
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 1: bestseller this year, Butler, which I'm sure a lot of

873
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 1: people are giving, is a Christmas great gift, an extraordinary

874
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 1: book endorsed by President Trump because Selena was standing next

875
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:29,320
Speaker 1: to the President when he was shot. Easy to remember, Butler.

876
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 1: But anyone think about a Selena cookbook? Since your America's

877
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 1: commist and the President's favorite journalist, you know that's not

878
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:39,760
Speaker 1: a bad idea.

879
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 8: A lot of people had thrown that at May. And

880
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 8: I think as soon and as soon.

881
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 12: As I can announce what my next book is, I

882
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,320
Speaker 12: will do it on your show you at the first

883
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 12: of the year.

884
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 8: But as soon as I am.

885
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 12: Finished with my next book, I think the cookbook is

886
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:55,280
Speaker 12: in order.

887
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 3: Oh I think.

888
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: I think the cookbook would appeal to everyone, left, right

889
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: and center, because authenticity cannot be faked, and no one

890
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 1: has four mixers unless they're actually a real cook. So

891
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,839
Speaker 1: tell me what is in most demand on fish night?

892
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 1: Because you know I'm not a fish person, So what's

893
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 1: in demand on fish Night?

894
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 12: My stuffed crab, the stuff mushrooms with the crab meat

895
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 12: is a big favorite show is the Sea Bass, and

896
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 12: I mean everything, every of the smells, everything.

897
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 8: Everyone has their sort of favorite.

898
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 12: And I always do more than seven fish because of

899
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 12: Italian and we overdo everything.

900
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 8: So if seven's going to give us good luck, why

901
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 8: is it nine?

902
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 4: Right?

903
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 12: But you know, there's just an abundance of everything, and

904
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 12: it's such a great way to know that you're doing

905
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:58,720
Speaker 12: something that your family members did one hundred, one hundred

906
00:43:58,760 --> 00:43:59,359
Speaker 12: and I.

907
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 8: Mean if my grand parents who are alive today to.

908
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 12: Be well over one hundred and twenty one hundred and

909
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 12: thirty years old, do you know.

910
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: What town in Italy they're from? Do you know where

911
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: in the boot they are?

912
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 12: Yeah, they're from a small town called Strombily or Strongly.

913
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:19,240
Speaker 8: It's a very beautiful town.

914
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 12: It's also a very poor town that's on the seaside.

915
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 12: My grandfather was a shepherd. He was also a fisherman

916
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:30,760
Speaker 12: and never went.

917
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 8: To school a day in his life. However, when he

918
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 8: came to this country and at.

919
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 12: Fourteen years old, and it's documented that he had nineteen

920
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 12: dollars and forty two cents in his pocket, he went

921
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 12: on to build five homes for each of his children

922
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 12: by his house.

923
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 3: So you know.

924
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 8: That talks about the will and fortitude of.

925
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 3: That generation, you know, solely. I don't think I told

926
00:44:59,680 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 3: you this.

927
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 1: For one of my closest friends in the world is

928
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,760
Speaker 1: Regina Marie Pisa, and she is the first Lady at Boston.

929
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: She's the senior Partner emeritus at Ropes Gray and we

930
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 1: went to college together and her father was a friend

931
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: to everyone, though he didn't speak great English, a big,

932
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 1: powerful Italian carpenter who came over after.

933
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 2: World War One.

934
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:24,319
Speaker 1: He had rowed in the Olympics for Italy. He was

935
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 1: a giantman, but he didn't speak. Opera was on all

936
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 1: the time, and they tricked. My brother and I had

937
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 1: to go to dinner one day and Thanksgiving it started.

938
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 3: It never ended.

939
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 1: I thought we were full after one or two courses

940
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: that it just kept coming. You Italians don't know with

941
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,720
Speaker 1: a stop button, you need like a red stop button

942
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 1: for the port.

943
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 3: The Irish are happy with some bread.

944
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 2: We just want a little bread. So do you have

945
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 2: music in the house at all times?

946
00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 12: Yeah, definitely have music in the house. There is this

947
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 12: channel on Pandora. It's called the Italian Cooking Channel, and

948
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 12: it's amazing. It has Sinatra, it has Steve Martin, it

949
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 12: has opera, it has everything, and it is playing all

950
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 12: the time year round.

951
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,280
Speaker 1: Do they move to Christmas songs in the Christmas season

952
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 1: on the Italian Cooking Channel?

953
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, yeah, it's great.

954
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 3: I think you just added I think you just added

955
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 3: a lot with my grandmother.

956
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 1: Right, last question, I didn't know about another book. So

957
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 1: is it all official? Even though you're not going to

958
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 1: tell me the name of it yet, is it a

959
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:37,919
Speaker 1: done deal?

960
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 3: It's all official.

961
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 8: It's a done deal. I've already started it. I'll let

962
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 8: you know after the first of the year and we

963
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:45,399
Speaker 8: could talk a little bit.

964
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 12: About it, and I think you'll be as excited as

965
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 12: a lot of other people will. It's really it's a

966
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 12: book I've always wanted to write, and it's about a

967
00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 12: part of the country that has my heart and I

968
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 12: want to tell this story.

969
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 8: So I'm super excited about it.

970
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 1: Everyone go follow Zito Selena on X so you know,

971
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 1: even if you missed the segment that Selena tells me

972
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 1: about it. Zito Selena, President Trump's favorite journalist, got a

973
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:17,839
Speaker 1: shout out last night in Pennsylvania from the presidents.

974
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 3: To Selena, and I'm good.

975
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: I'm very very happy to see you're feeling better having

976
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 1: broken your leg.

977
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,280
Speaker 2: Stay tuned, America, Thank you, Selena, Stay tuned.

978
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1002
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 1: of you are saying, wait, it's not Friday. It's Wednesday,

1003
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 1: December ten. Why am I hearing that music. It's because

1004
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 1: it's a special edition of the Hilldale Dialogue with our

1005
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: friend Matt Spalding. Dean Spalding, I want to get his

1006
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 1: title down correctly. The Kirby Professor and Constitutional Government and

1007
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 1: the dean of the Van Andel Graduates Government at Hillsdale College,

1008
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: who oversees the Alan Kirby Center for Constitutional Studies and

1009
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: Citizenship at Hillsdale's Washington, DC campus, is now best selling

1010
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 1: author Matt Spaulding. Because I hold in my hand a

1011
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:16,280
Speaker 1: brilliant book, The Making of the American Mind, the story

1012
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 1: of our Declaration of Independence, and I'm doing this hour

1013
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,359
Speaker 1: with Dean Spaulding on Wednesday so that you all run

1014
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 1: out to Amazon and get you your gift receiving friends

1015
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 1: who love American history. This book, The Making of the

1016
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 1: American Mind. Dean Spaulding, Welcome. Have I ever told you

1017
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 1: that Frank Luntz law? Do you know the Frank Luntz

1018
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 1: law on selling books?

1019
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 3: But what is that? You have to say the title.

1020
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 1: Of the book, the Making of the American Mind, at

1021
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:46,240
Speaker 1: least seven times in every segment, or people won't remember

1022
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 1: the Making American Mind when they get them to their

1023
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 1: computers to go to Amazon to order the Making of

1024
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:53,719
Speaker 1: the American Mind, to send the Making American Mind to

1025
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:54,320
Speaker 1: their friends.

1026
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 2: I've got six of them down. Now you're gonna have

1027
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 2: to You're going to do it again.

1028
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 1: First thing I want to do, first revelation of this

1029
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 1: is really a grand book.

1030
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 2: Congratulations. People told you that.

1031
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 3: Thank you.

1032
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 13: It's it's been I've been working on for so long.

1033
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 13: It's now it's the point where it's getting out, so Sarty,

1034
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 13: come in.

1035
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:19,760
Speaker 3: It's it's hitting some people and I'm getting some good feedback.

1036
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 3: So I'm very excited about it.

1037
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 1: It's grand and I'll demonstrate why in a moment. But first,

1038
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,880
Speaker 1: my one, my surprise. I always read the epilogues, right,

1039
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 1: I always lead the acknowledgement. I had no idea that

1040
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 1: Charles Kessler was your first professor. No wonder you're comfortable

1041
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:40,320
Speaker 1: with I mean we look alike. Uh, what did Charles

1042
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:40,759
Speaker 1: teach you?

1043
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 3: It's the Harvard connection.

1044
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 13: I took my first serious class from Charles his first

1045
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 13: semester at Claremont, having graduated with his PhD from Harvard.

1046
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 13: So we were early and fast friends. We were in

1047
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:58,360
Speaker 13: each other's weddings, and I took every course, and that

1048
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 13: he told me to take courts with Harry Jay, and

1049
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 13: that storied my education because before that I was just

1050
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:05,800
Speaker 13: some kid from the Ciper Valley, the farming Valley. And

1051
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:11,840
Speaker 13: I started learning about political history and political thought and Shakespeare.

1052
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:14,280
Speaker 3: And Lincoln, a lot of Lincoln and the Founding.

1053
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 13: And so it began this romance with this thing called

1054
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:20,759
Speaker 13: the American Founding, which was the first time I fell

1055
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:22,799
Speaker 13: in love with it, and now I'm falling in love

1056
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 13: with it again because I'm writing about it.

1057
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:29,320
Speaker 1: And Charles is a great first teacher. I just a

1058
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 1: quick anecdote. I arrived at Harvard in nineteen seventy four,

1059
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 1: and Charles came by to meet me because we had

1060
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 1: been introduced by letter by William Buckley, who had written

1061
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: to both of us and told us that we needed

1062
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 1: to meet. And Charles came over and found me on

1063
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:46,320
Speaker 1: the first night in Cambridge. And I'm not nearly smart

1064
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 1: enough to be a teacher like Charles Kessler, but I

1065
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 1: know what a fine man is, and so no wonder

1066
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 1: you turned out.

1067
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 2: To such a great professor, a great story.

1068
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 1: Now I'm going to begin at the end with the epilogue,

1069
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 1: because the virtue of a book like the Making of

1070
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 1: American Mind is when you learn new factoids that will stick.

1071
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:08,319
Speaker 1: Here are four that come from the epilogue, titled iron Men.

1072
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:12,399
Speaker 1: That phrase comes from Lincoln in a speech of July tenth,

1073
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: eighteen fifty eight, and would ask you to explain it.

1074
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 1: The Benjamin Harrison of Virginia joke about hanging Abigail Adams,

1075
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 1: caring for the four children of doctor Joseph Warren, who

1076
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:26,840
Speaker 1: is primarily executed by the British, and Lincoln also calling

1077
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 1: the founders a forest of giant oaks, and finally that

1078
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 1: the last of the signers to die was Charles Carroll,

1079
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 1: the only Catholic among them. So let's begin with the

1080
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 1: phrase iron men. What did Lincoln mean by that.

1081
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 13: That was a So he gave a very famous speech

1082
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 13: in Chicago when he was beginning his Senate campaign against

1083
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 13: Stephen Douglas, and who was at a famous Chicago hotel.

1084
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:54,399
Speaker 3: Douglas booked there.

1085
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,719
Speaker 13: The night before in eighteen fifty eight, and it was

1086
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 13: near the Fourth of July. Mostly the speakers about is

1087
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:02,840
Speaker 13: about Douglas, but towards the end of the speech he

1088
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:05,479
Speaker 13: gives a some remarks about the meaning of the fourth

1089
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 13: of July, and the the famous line in the speech.

1090
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 13: The part of the speech is where he talks about

1091
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 13: the declaration being an electric cord that connects us with

1092
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:21,359
Speaker 13: past generations, and when we read that declaration, we were

1093
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 13: all blood of the blood and the flesh of the flesh.

1094
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 13: But in passing and setting up that passage, he almost

1095
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 13: makes a passing remark where he talks about these great

1096
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 13: men and what they had done, and somehow we looked

1097
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 13: back to what they had accomplished, and then passing says

1098
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:41,759
Speaker 13: they were iron men. And I just thought that was

1099
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:46,400
Speaker 13: such a powerful, powerful description.

1100
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 3: Of what they were. So I used this speech to frame.

1101
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 13: This epilogue in which I talk about the signers and

1102
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:56,399
Speaker 13: what they did, especially in the revolution. And in terms

1103
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 13: of their own fortunes, UH, supporting.

1104
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 2: The revolution, life, liberty, and sacred honor.

1105
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 1: And let that brings me to Benjamin Harrison in Virginia

1106
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 1: making a joke to Elbridge Gary of Massachusetts about hanging.

1107
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 1: Do you recall the joke offhand, because I'll never forget it.

1108
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 3: I do.

1109
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 11: So.

1110
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 13: He was a rather portly fellow, and the other fellow

1111
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:23,880
Speaker 13: is a rather thin fellow. And so when they were signing,

1112
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 13: they all signed as individuals in August, uh. And they

1113
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 13: come up to the table and sign, and there was

1114
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 13: some gallows humor. And one of the best ones was

1115
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 13: when Harrison said that to his thin fellow, the portly

1116
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 13: manage for the fifth thin fellow when we were hanged, Sir,

1117
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 13: mine will be quick because of my essentially my weight,

1118
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 13: but you and you will kind of swing in the

1119
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 13: air for a long time. It will be further on you,

1120
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:55,240
Speaker 13: you willy.

1121
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 2: It's actually gallows humor.

1122
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 3: It's real gallows humor, in the best kind, in the

1123
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 3: best kind.

1124
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 13: And I connect that to a letter Washington writes a

1125
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 13: letter to his brother when he refers to if we

1126
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 13: are caught, we will be hanged, etcetera, etcetera. Etcetera. And

1127
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 13: I always wondered what he meant by etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

1128
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 13: What more can they do other than just hanging them.

1129
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 13: What turns out the Washington knew this, and I'm thinking

1130
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:24,800
Speaker 13: he probably told them this when they were signing that declaration,

1131
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 13: that the punishment for treason under British law at the

1132
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:33,719
Speaker 13: time was to be hanged, but then drawn and order

1133
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:36,759
Speaker 13: even sometimes have your bowels taken out.

1134
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:38,840
Speaker 3: So it was if there was some etcetera, etcetera.

1135
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 1: There the elegant writing, though, Matt Spalding, and my hat

1136
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 1: tip to you is after the joke, you refer to

1137
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 1: Abigail Adams caring for her four children, while John Adams

1138
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 1: is laboring away at Liberty and caring as well for

1139
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:56,320
Speaker 1: the four children of the widow or doctor Joseph Warren,

1140
00:55:56,760 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 1: who was summarily executed by the British. I did not

1141
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 1: know that she did that. I did not know that

1142
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 1: he had been so executed. They would killed them, all,

1143
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:09,879
Speaker 1: those signers of the declaration, they all would have been executed.

1144
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:12,919
Speaker 3: Absolutely, as a matter of fact.

1145
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:16,719
Speaker 13: So Warren is killed at the Battle of bunker Hill,

1146
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:20,400
Speaker 13: which Abigail and her children, including John Quincy watched from afar,

1147
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,360
Speaker 13: and she's taken care of all of those children. He

1148
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 13: was execed when they caught him, because they knew who

1149
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:29,800
Speaker 13: he was. He was the head of the Massi's provincial council.

1150
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 13: But the signers when they signed that declaration literally were

1151
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:37,920
Speaker 13: signing a death warrant. And we have ample evidence, much

1152
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 13: of which I give in that epilogue, that their homes

1153
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:43,959
Speaker 13: were attacked. They went after them and hunted them down.

1154
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 13: They sent cavalry out to track them down. They went

1155
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 13: after those signers, not just as a matter of normal

1156
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 13: course of a war, but intentionally, and they went after

1157
00:56:55,640 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 13: their children. In some cases they captured their children, and

1158
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:05,880
Speaker 13: they punished their children because their father would not turn

1159
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 13: and deny the declaration independence.

1160
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:11,759
Speaker 1: And I mentioned at the beginning Charles Carroll, who was

1161
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 1: among the forest of ginoacause that's what Lincoln calls the framers.

1162
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:18,280
Speaker 1: He was a Catholic man, the only Catholic to sign

1163
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 1: the declaration. But he was also the last of the

1164
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 1: signers to die. You note that he signed in his

1165
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 1: full name so that they would miss not mistake relatives.

1166
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 1: That's another detail I had never known before.

1167
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, so he's Charles Carrollton.

1168
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:35,480
Speaker 13: But there were others charge his own father and I

1169
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:40,120
Speaker 13: think was a nephew or Cousini Caner were also Charles Kestler.

1170
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 13: So he said, Charles Carroll of Carrollton. It wasn't because

1171
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 13: he was some aristocrat. It was because he didn't want

1172
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 13: his other relatives to be killed mistakenly when they were identified,

1173
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 13: so he added that to his identification. And then, of

1174
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 13: course when Hancock signed in such big handwriting, he.

1175
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 3: Was doing it to make sure that his name was

1176
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:02,280
Speaker 3: clearly seen.

1177
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 13: He had already been identified and in the King's proclamation

1178
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 13: identified by name as the Treasons individual, So he signed

1179
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:14,960
Speaker 13: even larger than normal so the King would not mistake

1180
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 13: his name and would double the price on his head.

1181
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:21,200
Speaker 1: Coming right back with Dean Matt Spaulding on the Making

1182
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:30,000
Speaker 1: of the American Mind Stay two Welcome Back in America,

1183
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 1: a special edition of the Hillsdale Dialogue with Dean Matt Spalding,

1184
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:36,320
Speaker 1: whose brand new book, The Making of the American Mind

1185
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 1: is the perfect Christmas present, not just for the people

1186
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 1: who love history in your life, but for every American

1187
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 1: who wants maybe to be clued in on why. Seventeen

1188
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 1: seventy six marked the beginning of our independent republic, our republic,

1189
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 1: our great commercial republic, our land of liberty. But I

1190
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:59,920
Speaker 1: got a question Matt Spalding, in the introduction titled Falling

1191
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 1: in Love Again.

1192
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 3: You open with a C. S.

1193
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 1: Lewis quote which reads, and with that plunge back into

1194
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 1: my own past, there arose, all at once, almost like heartbreak,

1195
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 1: the memory of joy itself, the knowledge that I had

1196
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 1: once had but I now lacked for years, that I

1197
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:18,480
Speaker 1: was returning at last from exile and desert lands to

1198
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:21,720
Speaker 1: my own country. Now that Joy is his wife, that

1199
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 1: is from surprise by Joy, Why did you make that choice?

1200
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 13: There's a thematic here in C. S. Lewis is miyways

1201
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 13: my Guide that book his autobiography is Surprised by Joy.

1202
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:40,640
Speaker 13: Talks about Joy as his wife. But the other thing

1203
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 13: he talks about is the joy he had when he

1204
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 13: studied great history, because that great history drew him towards

1205
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:51,439
Speaker 13: more permanent things and ultimately towards eternal things.

1206
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 3: Indeed, he describes his study of.

1207
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:57,480
Speaker 13: History as what old only started him down his path

1208
00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 13: of a Christian conversion. So there is this sense, I

1209
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 13: actually do think you get this in the declaration properly

1210
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:08,480
Speaker 13: understood that the Declaration, which is on the one hand

1211
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 13: mere history, really draws you towards more permanent questions about

1212
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:16,440
Speaker 13: the nature of man. And then there actually is a

1213
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 13: theology of the Declaration really draws you, indeed points you

1214
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 13: towards a larger understanding of eternal things.

1215
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 3: And I think that's actually what is what C. S.

1216
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:28,040
Speaker 3: Lewis men.

1217
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 13: He explained what he meant by these surprises of joy

1218
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 13: that he is sometimes struck by when he has these

1219
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:37,120
Speaker 13: glimpses of the eternals.

1220
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 1: I defy anyone who heard the first segment with the

1221
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:44,520
Speaker 1: five anecdotes contained therein from your epilogue not to have

1222
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:49,800
Speaker 1: had a little shiver of inspired admiration for our framers.

1223
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 2: Now I want to move on to.

1224
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:54,120
Speaker 1: The It's so many great you did so much work

1225
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:57,120
Speaker 1: on this, and then you wove it together Topville, going

1226
01:00:57,200 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 1: to the parade and all they Now I've read Democracy

1227
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:03,080
Speaker 1: in America actually gone over at length on the Hillsdale

1228
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 1: Dialogue with doctor arn but I never heard about the

1229
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 1: parade in Albany, which includes the fire Brigade and the

1230
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:14,560
Speaker 1: Tradesman's Unions, quote every ludicrous detail and meshed with a

1231
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:18,400
Speaker 1: loftiness of purpose, that spoke to the house, to the heart.

1232
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:21,920
Speaker 2: That's like every fourth of July, small town prey that.

1233
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 3: Is ahead of us this year, Matt.

1234
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 2: They're going to be ludicrous and we're going to love them.

1235
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 3: Why right, No, that's exactly right.

1236
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:34,760
Speaker 13: And you can imagine Tolkville and Beaumont, his traveling companion,

1237
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 13: being completely surprised by this, in.

1238
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 3: This American sense of these things.

1239
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:45,840
Speaker 13: They were expecting and used to seeing the great European celebrations,

1240
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:49,400
Speaker 13: and instead they see this very American celebration.

1241
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 3: Of parye children running around.

1242
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:54,640
Speaker 13: It culminates in a church and they read the declaration

1243
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:57,840
Speaker 13: and they honor those who fought in the revolution. Remember

1244
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 13: this is still in eighteen thirty one, and they saw

1245
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 13: in that moment, I think the essence.

1246
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:06,800
Speaker 3: Of American patriotism.

1247
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:11,440
Speaker 13: I use topefil here because in Democracy America he makes

1248
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:16,200
Speaker 13: a distinction between instinctive patriotism, which is the patriot of place.

1249
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:20,880
Speaker 13: I think of your hometown, your parade, your local gatherings

1250
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:24,919
Speaker 13: and makes of Columbus meetings or the local football team,

1251
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:30,320
Speaker 13: your state, and then what else he calls reflective patriotism.

1252
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:32,720
Speaker 13: And I think in those moments in this moment, in

1253
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:35,400
Speaker 13: particular by Toko's own description.

1254
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 3: These are in his letters home describing it.

1255
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:42,160
Speaker 13: He basically witnesses and has a sense of one of

1256
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 13: those moments, which was the instinctive patriotism of these people

1257
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:49,880
Speaker 13: in this parade and there's celebration and their sense of

1258
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:55,280
Speaker 13: Americanism culminates in a reading of the Declaration, which he says,

1259
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 13: when it's read, it's electrifying when they come.

1260
01:02:58,160 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 3: To that moment.

1261
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:03,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, for years, attend today before invited for for years

1262
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:06,360
Speaker 1: I attended at Fourth of July party given by my

1263
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 1: friend Tim Cook, at which he always read the Declaration

1264
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 1: of Independence, and I thought it unique and wonderful. Turns

1265
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:15,480
Speaker 1: out it's not unique, it is wonderful. I hope Speaker

1266
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 1: Johnson finds an opportunity at some time. He's a constitutional

1267
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 1: officer as opposed to the leader of the Senate. He's

1268
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:25,280
Speaker 1: named in the Declaration in the Constitution. I hope he

1269
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:28,520
Speaker 1: reads the Declaration from the rotunda at some point.

1270
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:32,160
Speaker 3: Do you think he will? That is a great idea.

1271
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:33,960
Speaker 3: I might have to look into that one.

1272
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:37,840
Speaker 13: I think, Look, look, we're going to accelerate this twenty

1273
01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:42,080
Speaker 13: fifty anniversary. There's a lot of history. Oftentimes we read

1274
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:44,320
Speaker 13: the Declaration and we just kind of take it for granted.

1275
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 3: But I think that there is.

1276
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:49,840
Speaker 13: Something here that's more powerful, which is why I wrote

1277
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 13: the book. But also it's the full story of the narrative,

1278
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:54,800
Speaker 13: the meaning of the document. We have to revive in

1279
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:58,160
Speaker 13: the American soul, and the Declaration does it. It really

1280
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:01,160
Speaker 13: is America's poetry or epic poetry.

1281
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:04,200
Speaker 1: It is poetry, and one of the things you bring again,

1282
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:07,520
Speaker 1: I thought, I know, I think I know the founding

1283
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:10,360
Speaker 1: pretty well. But in the making of the American mind

1284
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 1: on page one ninety one, I'm jumping around. Now I'm

1285
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:17,800
Speaker 1: into my jumping around notes General Washington's Order of the

1286
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:20,919
Speaker 1: Day on July second, seventeen seventy six.

1287
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:23,040
Speaker 2: First the passwords and then quote.

1288
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:26,240
Speaker 1: Let us therefore rely upon the goodness of the cause

1289
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 1: and the aid of the Supreme Being, in whose hands

1290
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:32,640
Speaker 1: victory is to animate and encourage us to a great

1291
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:35,400
Speaker 1: and noble action. I bring that up because right now

1292
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:38,440
Speaker 1: I'm writing the preface for a theologian who's written on

1293
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:42,520
Speaker 1: the Christianity of George Washington, which is often dismissed as deism.

1294
01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:43,400
Speaker 3: It wasn't deism.

1295
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:46,440
Speaker 1: He was kind of a classic Anglican and here it

1296
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:51,080
Speaker 1: is in the Order of the Day on July second, saying, look,

1297
01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 1: we need the Supreme Being on our side.

1298
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:56,880
Speaker 2: So good on you for bringing that forward. Some people

1299
01:04:57,000 --> 01:04:58,320
Speaker 2: might have backed away from that.

1300
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:01,560
Speaker 3: In this age. Noolutely.

1301
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:04,240
Speaker 13: The one thing I have I've always believed, I especially

1302
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:08,720
Speaker 13: learned in this working this through is there actually is

1303
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:12,960
Speaker 13: a clear theological thread through these writings, which you see

1304
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:13,680
Speaker 13: in the Declaration.

1305
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 3: Especially.

1306
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:18,600
Speaker 13: You mentioned his Anglicanism, but it's the language of the

1307
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:22,720
Speaker 13: Anglican prayer Book. It's not as evangelical, or perhaps as

1308
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:26,360
Speaker 13: open and outwardly as we might expect today, but it's

1309
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:29,720
Speaker 13: clearly there in Washington, in the in the documents of

1310
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:32,640
Speaker 13: the day, in the other statements of the Continental Congress,

1311
01:05:32,680 --> 01:05:36,480
Speaker 13: the letters they write, and ultimately in the Declaration, which

1312
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:40,040
Speaker 13: is where so I read it as Yes, this.

1313
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:42,120
Speaker 3: Is drafted by Jefferson. It's highly amended.

1314
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:44,920
Speaker 13: We sometimes forget that this is knowledge too pops out

1315
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 13: of Jefferson's head.

1316
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 3: But Jefferson knew the audience for whom he is writing.

1317
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:56,000
Speaker 13: He's writing for an audience it was overwhelmingly Christian, some

1318
01:05:56,080 --> 01:06:00,000
Speaker 13: of them quite devout uh in a public including Washington

1319
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:03,360
Speaker 13: Armies who will read this document and understand it to

1320
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:06,040
Speaker 13: be the God they pray to. So I think we

1321
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:09,520
Speaker 13: can't read the Declaration without understanding the theology of.

1322
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:13,520
Speaker 1: The thing, well exactly everywhere. Sometimes miss it, but it's everywhere.

1323
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:16,200
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought it up. We're going to go

1324
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:17,520
Speaker 1: to a break, but I want to tell you why

1325
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:19,680
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought it up. So much of the

1326
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:25,680
Speaker 1: hatred online is anti Semitic, it's anti Catholic, it's anti

1327
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:30,200
Speaker 1: traditional theology, whereas the Declaration is a unifying document for

1328
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:32,360
Speaker 1: all creeds and faith or not at all. You can

1329
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:34,560
Speaker 1: be Tom Payne. You give me an atheist, we'll take

1330
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:38,080
Speaker 1: you if you're a patriot. But the theology of the

1331
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:41,440
Speaker 1: Declaration well done. And I think we'll get to the

1332
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:44,480
Speaker 1: fact that it's a legal document in the next segment,

1333
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:48,560
Speaker 1: but it's still a unique approach. The book we're telling

1334
01:06:48,560 --> 01:06:52,400
Speaker 1: you about is Matt's Faulding, The Making of the American Mind.

1335
01:06:52,960 --> 01:06:56,600
Speaker 1: That's spa LDNG. Go and get it as Christmas for

1336
01:06:56,880 --> 01:06:59,680
Speaker 1: anyone who loves America or anyone who loves history, and

1337
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:02,520
Speaker 1: hopefully they're both stay tuned. Noll be right back with

1338
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:09,800
Speaker 1: Dean's Faulding after this Welcome Back in America. I'm Hugh Hewitt.

1339
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:12,240
Speaker 1: It's a special edition of the Hillsdale Dialogue on a

1340
01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 1: Wednesday afternoon with Dean Matt Spalding, the author of this

1341
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:18,040
Speaker 1: brand new book, The Making of the American Mind. Go

1342
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:20,760
Speaker 1: and get The Making of the American Mind ordered from

1343
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:24,280
Speaker 1: Amazon tonight. Make sure you get it delivered to Europe.

1344
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:28,120
Speaker 1: Your gift receiving friends who love history and love America.

1345
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:32,040
Speaker 1: The lawyer heart in me, saang out Matt Spalding. Because

1346
01:07:32,040 --> 01:07:36,240
Speaker 1: I wasn't smart enough to be Charles Kessler and study Straussianism.

1347
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:37,240
Speaker 3: I had to be a lawyer.

1348
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:41,360
Speaker 1: But you recognize the declaration is a legal document, using,

1349
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:44,040
Speaker 1: for example, the term therefore you note that on page

1350
01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:47,920
Speaker 1: one ninety eight, which signifies the binding nature of the

1351
01:07:48,160 --> 01:07:51,400
Speaker 1: language in the declara. Expand on that because I'm so.

1352
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:54,080
Speaker 2: Glad you made the point. It is a legal document.

1353
01:07:56,240 --> 01:08:02,640
Speaker 13: We sometimes forget this, and it's not merely a rhetorical occasion.

1354
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:05,800
Speaker 13: Part of this goes back to the long history of

1355
01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 13: Great English documents, and one of the things I track

1356
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:11,080
Speaker 13: is the extent to which the Declaration in many ways

1357
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:14,960
Speaker 13: models previous Great English declarations.

1358
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:18,920
Speaker 3: A declaration it self is a legal document.

1359
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:23,600
Speaker 13: Made by a legitimate legislative body, whether Parliament or in

1360
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:27,040
Speaker 13: this case the Continent of Congress. It's clearly laid out

1361
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:29,600
Speaker 13: like a legal document. It actually follows the order of

1362
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:34,519
Speaker 13: a common law legal document, and it ends with a

1363
01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:38,960
Speaker 13: it's a series of prepositions that end with a therefore

1364
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:43,320
Speaker 13: a clause. It's passed via legislature, it is debated and

1365
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:47,360
Speaker 13: treated as a piece of legislation of law that will

1366
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:50,120
Speaker 13: be a public law. And it's the public law that

1367
01:08:50,240 --> 01:08:53,680
Speaker 13: goes with the declaration of independence, meaning the formal declaration

1368
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:54,839
Speaker 13: on July second.

1369
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:55,479
Speaker 3: Two days earlier.

1370
01:08:56,360 --> 01:08:59,800
Speaker 13: So I think we can't look at but as a

1371
01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:04,840
Speaker 13: legal document which underscores all of these other things we've

1372
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:05,639
Speaker 13: been talking about.

1373
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:06,080
Speaker 4: This is.

1374
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:11,719
Speaker 13: I give all due honors lincol would say to Jefferson

1375
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:16,320
Speaker 13: for what he wrote. But it was ultimately a congressional document.

1376
01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:18,759
Speaker 13: It's heavily edited by the Continent Books.

1377
01:09:19,400 --> 01:09:19,680
Speaker 3: It's a.

1378
01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:26,360
Speaker 13: Work of a legislator, sure, and it is produced by

1379
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:29,320
Speaker 13: a legislature and is issued by a legislature, and it's

1380
01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:31,480
Speaker 13: signed by members of that legislature.

1381
01:09:32,320 --> 01:09:36,400
Speaker 1: So it's not that it's not received well in England,

1382
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:40,200
Speaker 1: and I love this on page one. The actual charges

1383
01:09:40,240 --> 01:09:43,080
Speaker 1: against the king have become forgotten details and a well

1384
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:43,839
Speaker 1: worn narrative.

1385
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:44,840
Speaker 3: Matt Spaulding rights.

1386
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:47,559
Speaker 1: Yet for the British, the officials in London, as well

1387
01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:50,360
Speaker 1: as the loyalists and the colonies, this section of the

1388
01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:53,400
Speaker 1: declaration was the primary focus because it was the primary

1389
01:09:53,479 --> 01:09:55,200
Speaker 1: attack the grievances.

1390
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:58,280
Speaker 2: You note we're also the most debated and edited portion

1391
01:09:58,439 --> 01:09:59,080
Speaker 2: of the document.

1392
01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:01,880
Speaker 1: I always talk about the officials going out to eat

1393
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:05,919
Speaker 1: up our resources when I inveigh against the administrative state.

1394
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:09,560
Speaker 2: But I didn't know that it scored, it wounded, it

1395
01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:10,439
Speaker 2: got their attention.

1396
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:13,800
Speaker 3: Yes, no, it absolutely.

1397
01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:17,000
Speaker 13: They thought the rest of it was nonsense, and when

1398
01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:20,400
Speaker 13: they hired their hired gun to respond. Because they couldn't

1399
01:10:20,439 --> 01:10:24,080
Speaker 13: officially respond, John Lynn wrote a pamphlet. It was kind

1400
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:28,200
Speaker 13: of an official, unofficial pamphlet. He focused almost exclusively on

1401
01:10:28,439 --> 01:10:31,679
Speaker 13: the grievances. That was the attack, because that's what attacked

1402
01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:36,600
Speaker 13: the King in his royal person and also kind of

1403
01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:41,200
Speaker 13: back handedly devalued the power of Parliament. So they saw

1404
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:44,840
Speaker 13: that as the key thing. So I actually spent a

1405
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:47,479
Speaker 13: lot of time going through those agreements one by one

1406
01:10:47,640 --> 01:10:49,559
Speaker 13: to try to put them in some sort of pattern.

1407
01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:52,840
Speaker 13: There doesn't seem to be a pattern on its face,

1408
01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:54,800
Speaker 13: which is why we don't usually read them.

1409
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:58,400
Speaker 3: They don't follow the same kind of rhetorical.

1410
01:10:59,080 --> 01:11:02,519
Speaker 13: Beauty if he will, But there's a pattern to them,

1411
01:11:02,680 --> 01:11:05,759
Speaker 13: and especially in seventeen seventy six, if you're a colonist

1412
01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:09,400
Speaker 13: or if you're the British, everyone knew exactly what they're

1413
01:11:09,439 --> 01:11:13,400
Speaker 13: referring to, and it builds in a pattern based on

1414
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:16,960
Speaker 13: the abuses of the law by the king. User pationis

1415
01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:21,360
Speaker 13: of legislative power by the king, and ultimately the king's

1416
01:11:21,400 --> 01:11:24,920
Speaker 13: war on the American colonists, his war against human nature,

1417
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:28,799
Speaker 13: essentially by the barbarism of making war on his own people.

1418
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:31,919
Speaker 3: So that the agreemances are crucially important.

1419
01:11:33,080 --> 01:11:35,640
Speaker 1: I would remind every television viewer in America who likes

1420
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:41,799
Speaker 1: legal dramas. There's opening argument, there's evidentiary proceedings, there's conclusion argument,

1421
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:44,840
Speaker 1: and this is the evidentiary proceedings part. I think that's

1422
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:47,120
Speaker 1: a fair analogy, Mats Baulding, isn't it.

1423
01:11:47,920 --> 01:11:49,439
Speaker 3: I think that's exactly right.

1424
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:52,640
Speaker 13: And that's how they looked at it there legislators writing this,

1425
01:11:53,280 --> 01:11:55,280
Speaker 13: That's how they looked at it, and that's clearly how

1426
01:11:55,320 --> 01:11:57,719
Speaker 13: the British looked at it when they read the document.

1427
01:11:58,160 --> 01:11:59,960
Speaker 13: Here's the evidence. So if we're going to destroy the caking,

1428
01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:01,439
Speaker 13: we've got to destroy the evidence.

1429
01:12:02,120 --> 01:12:04,519
Speaker 1: And when we come back, we're going to talk about

1430
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:08,160
Speaker 1: the opening argument, because that is the heart of theology

1431
01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:12,120
Speaker 1: of the declaration once again. Matt Spaulding's brand new book

1432
01:12:12,200 --> 01:12:15,040
Speaker 1: in time for Christmas, The Making of the American Mind.

1433
01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:18,800
Speaker 1: Or if you're listening to the replay of this episode

1434
01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:21,679
Speaker 1: on January two, you got a gift card for Christmas

1435
01:12:22,120 --> 01:12:23,360
Speaker 1: and you don't know what to do with it.

1436
01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:24,760
Speaker 3: Here you are the.

1437
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:27,639
Speaker 1: Making of the American Mind, the story of our Declaration

1438
01:12:27,720 --> 01:12:28,480
Speaker 1: of Independence.

1439
01:12:28,960 --> 01:12:31,280
Speaker 2: Be smart as we go in the.

1440
01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:37,160
Speaker 1: Growing enthusiasm for our two hundred and fiftieth birthday. Come

1441
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:43,880
Speaker 1: right back, Dean Spalding will be here. Welcome back in America.

1442
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:46,320
Speaker 1: I'm Hugh Hewittt. On this Wednesday, you're driving home with

1443
01:12:46,479 --> 01:12:49,960
Speaker 1: Dean Matt Spalding from Hillsdale College. He's got a brand

1444
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:53,040
Speaker 1: new book out, The Making of the American Mind, perfect

1445
01:12:53,120 --> 01:12:55,839
Speaker 1: for your Christmas shopping. Remember the Making of the American

1446
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:59,160
Speaker 1: Mind by Matthew Spalding. Whoever you give it to will

1447
01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:02,680
Speaker 1: be very, very thankful. It's just elegant, wonderful writing and

1448
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:07,599
Speaker 1: reading Chapter two, Matt I saved for this penultimate segment,

1449
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:11,439
Speaker 1: the laws of Nature and Nature is God. In this

1450
01:13:12,120 --> 01:13:17,599
Speaker 1: chapter you cite Plato, Aristotle, Cicero, Saint Augustine, Coke, Hooker,

1451
01:13:17,680 --> 01:13:20,160
Speaker 1: and Locke. But you don't do it in a way

1452
01:13:20,360 --> 01:13:22,640
Speaker 1: that is overwhelming. I mean you do it in a

1453
01:13:22,720 --> 01:13:25,960
Speaker 1: way that brings people into the idea that there is

1454
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:29,000
Speaker 1: a thread running through all of recorded human history that

1455
01:13:29,160 --> 01:13:32,760
Speaker 1: culminates in the Declaration of Independence. I think it's brilliantly done.

1456
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:37,320
Speaker 13: I thank you for that coming through. That's a great

1457
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:41,400
Speaker 13: that's a great compliment. But yes, no, I think what

1458
01:13:41,560 --> 01:13:44,720
Speaker 13: is overwhelmingly here. You know, sometimes when we study these things,

1459
01:13:44,800 --> 01:13:47,759
Speaker 13: we miss the forest for the trees, and we focus

1460
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:52,479
Speaker 13: oftentimes on lock exclusively, or this, that or the other.

1461
01:13:53,400 --> 01:13:55,040
Speaker 13: Locke is important. I don't mean it at all to

1462
01:13:55,120 --> 01:13:57,920
Speaker 13: do diminish Lock. But the more important question here is

1463
01:13:58,080 --> 01:13:59,719
Speaker 13: what did the Americans understand?

1464
01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:01,720
Speaker 3: Locke understood, and.

1465
01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:06,479
Speaker 13: The Americans are clearly shaped by this broader, longer older tradition,

1466
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:11,439
Speaker 13: going back to the Greeks and the Romans. The Roman

1467
01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:15,720
Speaker 13: influence on our education is much more important than even

1468
01:14:15,840 --> 01:14:20,160
Speaker 13: I thought was historically the case. And they're also deeply

1469
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:23,719
Speaker 13: shaped by the whole Christian tradition, not only the Christian

1470
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:27,439
Speaker 13: trition growing out of the thumistic natural law tradition in

1471
01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:31,800
Speaker 13: the medieval ages, but that Christian trition which is shaped

1472
01:14:31,880 --> 01:14:36,000
Speaker 13: especially by someone like John by Richard Hooker, the great

1473
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:39,439
Speaker 13: Anglican divine, who, among other things when he writes his book,

1474
01:14:39,479 --> 01:14:42,520
Speaker 13: footnotes extensively Thomas Aquinas and Aristotle.

1475
01:14:43,080 --> 01:14:45,200
Speaker 3: So there's clearly this tradition.

1476
01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:48,040
Speaker 13: So then the question becomes, where do the Americans see

1477
01:14:48,080 --> 01:14:51,880
Speaker 13: themselves in that tradition, which is attrition that transcends the

1478
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:57,400
Speaker 13: whole immediate more recent if you will, locke in tradition,

1479
01:14:57,560 --> 01:14:58,439
Speaker 13: which is a part of that.

1480
01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:01,800
Speaker 3: They read locked those.

1481
01:15:01,439 --> 01:15:06,479
Speaker 13: Winses, and that is what really shapes the whole moral

1482
01:15:06,560 --> 01:15:08,360
Speaker 13: horizons which this document has written.

1483
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:13,439
Speaker 1: We've got the notes on the Constitution from James Madison,

1484
01:15:13,479 --> 01:15:15,840
Speaker 1: who took center stage, sat front and center so he

1485
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:18,600
Speaker 1: could take these copious notes on the framing of the

1486
01:15:18,680 --> 01:15:21,879
Speaker 1: Constitution which follows thirteen years later. Do we have anything

1487
01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:26,560
Speaker 1: about the Continental Congress as they approached this declaration and

1488
01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:29,640
Speaker 1: whether or not they're sighting Hooker or going to Aristotle.

1489
01:15:29,720 --> 01:15:31,679
Speaker 1: Do we have anyone who is keeping notes?

1490
01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:33,760
Speaker 3: We don't.

1491
01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:37,519
Speaker 13: There are records of the Continental Congress, and you can

1492
01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:39,840
Speaker 13: read those day to day, and there's lots of interesting

1493
01:15:39,880 --> 01:15:42,759
Speaker 13: things we can learn there. But there is no record,

1494
01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:45,679
Speaker 13: no written record because it was done secretly and quiet

1495
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:50,640
Speaker 13: and behind closed doors. No record of the editing debates

1496
01:15:51,240 --> 01:15:53,679
Speaker 13: which went on for two days, two full days about

1497
01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:56,920
Speaker 13: the declaration. And then we don't necessarily have a lot

1498
01:15:57,000 --> 01:15:59,680
Speaker 13: of the correspondence and back and forth between Adams and

1499
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:04,880
Speaker 13: Anklin and Jefferson in drafting the document in particular. So

1500
01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:07,439
Speaker 13: I think we have to rely on other things that

1501
01:16:07,479 --> 01:16:10,840
Speaker 13: are written the kind of Congress did write, other pamphlets,

1502
01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:12,960
Speaker 13: their private letters. There are all sorts of things we

1503
01:16:13,040 --> 01:16:15,800
Speaker 13: can look to, but we don't have the same record

1504
01:16:15,800 --> 01:16:18,040
Speaker 13: as we have for the for the Constitution Convention.

1505
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:22,160
Speaker 3: But that shouldn't prevent us from looking at the words

1506
01:16:22,200 --> 01:16:22,839
Speaker 3: of the declaration.

1507
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:26,080
Speaker 13: One of the things I emphasize here is that the

1508
01:16:26,600 --> 01:16:30,160
Speaker 13: terms as huge you would know from as a lawyer

1509
01:16:30,280 --> 01:16:35,240
Speaker 13: when you write a legal document, the terms of art

1510
01:16:35,320 --> 01:16:39,639
Speaker 13: that are used have meanings. These are not odd terms

1511
01:16:39,680 --> 01:16:43,439
Speaker 13: that are invented out of nowhere. But they are terms

1512
01:16:43,479 --> 01:16:47,479
Speaker 13: of art used at the time. Remember, Jeffson Calls writes

1513
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:49,640
Speaker 13: a famous letter in eighteen twenty five referring to the

1514
01:16:49,680 --> 01:16:53,760
Speaker 13: declaration as an expression of the American mind, from which

1515
01:16:53,800 --> 01:16:55,400
Speaker 13: I get the title of my book, The Making of

1516
01:16:55,439 --> 01:16:58,639
Speaker 13: the American Mind. Then I got to expression the American

1517
01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:01,839
Speaker 13: mindnument nothing new. Well, I didn't admid something. I captured

1518
01:17:02,160 --> 01:17:04,679
Speaker 13: the mind of the moment, of the moment.

1519
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:07,560
Speaker 1: And when I'm very glad you emphasize the laws of

1520
01:17:07,720 --> 01:17:12,479
Speaker 1: nature and Nature's God. One declaration, two authorities, the laws

1521
01:17:12,520 --> 01:17:14,800
Speaker 1: of nature and the laws of Nature's God.

1522
01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:16,280
Speaker 3: They are not in.

1523
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:22,280
Speaker 1: Tension. They are weight bearing walls of our independence. And

1524
01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:25,920
Speaker 1: they are both cited so that you can rely on

1525
01:17:26,000 --> 01:17:28,479
Speaker 1: Athens or you can rely on Jerusalem. But the Declaration

1526
01:17:28,720 --> 01:17:29,719
Speaker 1: stands on them both.

1527
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:34,720
Speaker 3: No obvioustely right to stay in our meaning.

1528
01:17:34,880 --> 01:17:38,760
Speaker 13: Much of modernity we see reason revelation in ODZ with

1529
01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:42,439
Speaker 13: each other, and they can't coexist. There really is nothing

1530
01:17:42,640 --> 01:17:45,160
Speaker 13: in the American founding that suggests that was their belief

1531
01:17:45,200 --> 01:17:48,320
Speaker 13: at all. And so it's perfectly natural, if you will,

1532
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:50,920
Speaker 13: to make reference to both of these things. And so

1533
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:54,360
Speaker 13: at the very beginning that which is that first opening paragraph.

1534
01:17:54,960 --> 01:17:57,519
Speaker 13: It's a reference to these two pillars, if you will.

1535
01:17:58,080 --> 01:17:59,640
Speaker 13: But remember there are two pillars, but they are two

1536
01:17:59,680 --> 01:18:04,800
Speaker 13: pillars fundamentally connected the laws, the laws of nature. The

1537
01:18:04,920 --> 01:18:08,400
Speaker 13: laws of nature's got it's the same laws. They just

1538
01:18:08,479 --> 01:18:12,160
Speaker 13: have two different sources, which which historically, in the tradition

1539
01:18:12,200 --> 01:18:16,960
Speaker 13: we can understand is laws understood by reason simply, or

1540
01:18:17,120 --> 01:18:21,880
Speaker 13: laws understood using man's reason through what we might call

1541
01:18:22,320 --> 01:18:25,040
Speaker 13: general revelation, that is that has been real to us

1542
01:18:25,120 --> 01:18:26,160
Speaker 13: through nature itself.

1543
01:18:27,080 --> 01:18:29,160
Speaker 3: So they're perfectly and they're not the same.

1544
01:18:29,400 --> 01:18:33,040
Speaker 13: They're they're they're they're they're differences, but they're in agreement,

1545
01:18:33,160 --> 01:18:35,800
Speaker 13: especially when it comes to these these general questions.

1546
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:38,759
Speaker 1: Last quick part for this, and we're going to finish

1547
01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:41,760
Speaker 1: up in a minute. George Washington sends a letter to

1548
01:18:41,880 --> 01:18:44,600
Speaker 1: Katherine McAuley Graham about which I've been ignorant until I

1549
01:18:44,720 --> 01:18:47,639
Speaker 1: read the Making of the American Mind. And he says

1550
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:50,960
Speaker 1: much was to be done by prudence, much by conciliation,

1551
01:18:51,240 --> 01:18:52,240
Speaker 1: much by firmness.

1552
01:18:52,360 --> 01:18:54,040
Speaker 2: That's on page one thirty of the Making of the.

1553
01:18:54,040 --> 01:18:56,840
Speaker 1: American I've never read that before, but what a great

1554
01:18:56,880 --> 01:18:59,640
Speaker 1: summation of the three qualities of a revolutionary.

1555
01:19:01,520 --> 01:19:04,600
Speaker 13: No, absolutely, and I have a whole chapter in the

1556
01:19:04,640 --> 01:19:08,360
Speaker 13: book on the question of prudence, which you know, the

1557
01:19:08,439 --> 01:19:11,880
Speaker 13: Declaration has these principles, all being created equal a chief

1558
01:19:11,920 --> 01:19:12,360
Speaker 13: among them.

1559
01:19:13,080 --> 01:19:14,479
Speaker 3: But then it's prudence will dictate.

1560
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:18,680
Speaker 13: And prudence in particular is a classical virtue, which is

1561
01:19:19,760 --> 01:19:23,200
Speaker 13: the key practical verb, if you will. The Declaration is

1562
01:19:23,240 --> 01:19:27,479
Speaker 13: this movement of prudence, which again is signals to us

1563
01:19:27,640 --> 01:19:31,120
Speaker 13: very clearly. It's a dominant, extremely important word in political

1564
01:19:31,160 --> 01:19:35,120
Speaker 13: writing and in law, and it really signals to us.

1565
01:19:35,160 --> 01:19:37,920
Speaker 3: So this document is not written in the modern world.

1566
01:19:38,040 --> 01:19:40,840
Speaker 3: This is written in this older understanding of the nature

1567
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:41,240
Speaker 3: of things.

1568
01:19:41,840 --> 01:19:45,040
Speaker 1: One way, these are a modern French revolution. It's what

1569
01:19:45,160 --> 01:19:48,200
Speaker 1: we need to recover for twenty twenty six. We need

1570
01:19:48,280 --> 01:19:51,200
Speaker 1: to recover that understanding. We don't know anywhere America. Dean

1571
01:19:51,280 --> 01:19:53,960
Speaker 1: Spaulding back for one more moment, except during the break,

1572
01:19:54,160 --> 01:19:56,400
Speaker 1: go over and order The Making of the American Mind.

1573
01:19:56,479 --> 01:19:59,400
Speaker 1: The Making of the American Mind available Amazon, Barnes, and Noble.

1574
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:02,840
Speaker 1: You would find bookstores everywhere. It is brought to you

1575
01:20:02,960 --> 01:20:06,040
Speaker 1: by our friends from Encounter Book Well, Don Roger and

1576
01:20:06,120 --> 01:20:07,639
Speaker 1: Gang on getting this out.

1577
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:09,639
Speaker 3: I'll be right back in America. States show.

1578
01:20:12,479 --> 01:20:15,040
Speaker 1: Welcome back in America. I'm Herehewett as we wrap up

1579
01:20:15,080 --> 01:20:17,960
Speaker 1: today's program. The Making of the American Mind by Matt

1580
01:20:18,080 --> 01:20:21,000
Speaker 1: Spaulding is what we've been talking about. Matt, of course,

1581
01:20:21,080 --> 01:20:23,639
Speaker 1: is at Hillsdale, all Things Hillsdale at Hillsdale dot EEDU

1582
01:20:24,200 --> 01:20:26,960
Speaker 1: all of our dialogues at huter Hillsdale dot com. You'll

1583
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:29,240
Speaker 1: be hearing this again, probably on January second and at

1584
01:20:29,320 --> 01:20:31,759
Speaker 1: Friday in the normal slot for the Hillsdale Dialogue.

1585
01:20:32,200 --> 01:20:32,799
Speaker 3: Matt's Faulding.

1586
01:20:32,840 --> 01:20:35,320
Speaker 1: I want to read a paragraph that's holy Matt' Spaulding,

1587
01:20:35,400 --> 01:20:36,280
Speaker 1: page one oh four.

1588
01:20:37,080 --> 01:20:37,960
Speaker 3: Here's the difference.

1589
01:20:38,200 --> 01:20:41,320
Speaker 1: There is no such relationship between man and man as

1590
01:20:41,400 --> 01:20:43,600
Speaker 1: there is between man and horse, such that.

1591
01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:45,479
Speaker 3: One is the inherent ruler of the other.

1592
01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:49,000
Speaker 1: In a world of vast inequalities that are used to

1593
01:20:49,080 --> 01:20:52,280
Speaker 1: make claims to political rule, No man is the natural

1594
01:20:52,400 --> 01:20:55,880
Speaker 1: sovereign of another man. Booted and spurred, ready to ride,

1595
01:20:56,439 --> 01:20:59,800
Speaker 1: Well said, why don't you explain it a little bit?

1596
01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:01,559
Speaker 1: In the two minutes we have left.

1597
01:21:03,240 --> 01:21:08,320
Speaker 13: Well the central proposition here they've turned to to solve

1598
01:21:08,360 --> 01:21:12,679
Speaker 13: the problems, political and theological and philosophical, is this idea

1599
01:21:12,720 --> 01:21:16,920
Speaker 13: of human equality. And they didn't understand human equality, and

1600
01:21:17,000 --> 01:21:21,240
Speaker 13: some abstract merely philosophical. Quite the way, if you will,

1601
01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:26,200
Speaker 13: there's very practical terms. And that particular passage is a

1602
01:21:26,360 --> 01:21:29,519
Speaker 13: reference there to a letter from Jefferson quoting someone from

1603
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:34,080
Speaker 13: the English Revolution about these distinctions, which is a very

1604
01:21:34,120 --> 01:21:34,960
Speaker 13: classical distinction.

1605
01:21:35,080 --> 01:21:37,760
Speaker 3: We don't understand. We understand man as man. He's not

1606
01:21:37,840 --> 01:21:38,320
Speaker 3: a horse.

1607
01:21:39,280 --> 01:21:42,320
Speaker 13: He's not born, you know, with a saddle on his back,

1608
01:21:43,439 --> 01:21:45,479
Speaker 13: and no other man is born with boots ready to

1609
01:21:45,640 --> 01:21:48,280
Speaker 13: ride another man as if he were a horse.

1610
01:21:49,000 --> 01:21:50,840
Speaker 3: Those are natural distinctions.

1611
01:21:50,960 --> 01:21:53,120
Speaker 13: And this is also the distinction that Lincoln then turns

1612
01:21:53,160 --> 01:21:55,960
Speaker 13: to when he understands the distinction between men is not

1613
01:21:56,160 --> 01:21:57,600
Speaker 13: one of human slavery when he.

1614
01:21:57,640 --> 01:22:02,400
Speaker 3: First meets the great Frederick Guns. So that's the essential thing.

1615
01:22:03,080 --> 01:22:04,719
Speaker 3: But it's so fundamentally human.

1616
01:22:04,920 --> 01:22:08,080
Speaker 13: It's not a hard question, but something we've lost track

1617
01:22:08,200 --> 01:22:13,040
Speaker 13: of because we've lost a sense of understanding the basic concepts,

1618
01:22:13,360 --> 01:22:14,640
Speaker 13: the first principles.

1619
01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:15,840
Speaker 3: That they would call them the fundamentals.

1620
01:22:17,000 --> 01:22:20,760
Speaker 13: But here the declaration turns on a grasping, the human

1621
01:22:21,080 --> 01:22:24,560
Speaker 13: grasping of the human mind, a medical, metaphysical freedom to

1622
01:22:24,640 --> 01:22:29,320
Speaker 13: grasp those concepts is the heart of the declaration that

1623
01:22:29,479 --> 01:22:33,479
Speaker 13: the universalism, the declaration that then gets more made practical

1624
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:36,439
Speaker 13: through the exercise of prudence about what is actually going

1625
01:22:36,479 --> 01:22:40,519
Speaker 13: on in seventeen seventy six in the colonies, in those grievances.

1626
01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:44,720
Speaker 1: Round This is the laid down. We will return to

1627
01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:47,280
Speaker 1: that again and again. I just got thirty seconds left.

1628
01:22:47,360 --> 01:22:50,759
Speaker 1: Are you an optimist about our celebrations ahead, Matt Spaulding,

1629
01:22:50,920 --> 01:22:53,400
Speaker 1: that they will in fact go back on the right thing?

1630
01:22:55,280 --> 01:22:58,599
Speaker 13: Well, I am an optimist, yes, because partially are always

1631
01:22:58,600 --> 01:23:02,200
Speaker 13: an optimist. But we have something so rich and beautiful

1632
01:23:02,240 --> 01:23:05,640
Speaker 13: and wonderful look back upon any looking back upon it

1633
01:23:05,840 --> 01:23:09,160
Speaker 13: and taking it seriously as one ought will naturally.

1634
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:09,719
Speaker 3: Bring great fruit.

1635
01:23:09,920 --> 01:23:12,320
Speaker 13: And I think that will happen in ways that we

1636
01:23:12,360 --> 01:23:14,519
Speaker 13: don't necessarily know about and not't necessarily control.

1637
01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:16,960
Speaker 3: There will be great events, but the more important thing

1638
01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:17,320
Speaker 3: will be.

1639
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:22,120
Speaker 13: Rediscovery, relearning and come to love again, and these great

1640
01:23:22,200 --> 01:23:22,960
Speaker 13: ideas that at the.

1641
01:23:22,960 --> 01:23:23,559
Speaker 3: Heart of the matter.

1642
01:23:24,120 --> 01:23:27,280
Speaker 1: Well said the book Again America, The Making of the

1643
01:23:27,400 --> 01:23:31,839
Speaker 1: American Mind, the Story of our Declaration of Independence. Perfect

1644
01:23:32,000 --> 01:23:35,639
Speaker 1: Christmas Present, New Year's Present. Get your gift cards ready

1645
01:23:35,680 --> 01:23:37,920
Speaker 1: to use if you're listening to this on January twod

1646
01:23:38,320 --> 01:23:41,000
Speaker 1: Deans Faulding thank you for joining me the making of

1647
01:23:41,040 --> 01:23:44,599
Speaker 1: the American mind. A wonderful way to begin twenty twenty six.

1648
01:23:45,240 --> 01:23:48,160
Speaker 1: Adam Harley, Gene Lisimo, thank you as well. Talk to

1649
01:23:48,200 --> 01:23:50,280
Speaker 1: you all tomorrow and the next show you at show