1 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: Breaking down politics, culture, and the buzz of the day 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: with bold conversations about faith, family, and living. 3 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 2: What you believe. This is the Danielle Gill Show. 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 3: I'm delighted to welcome our guest today, Will Chamberlain. He 5 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 3: is senior counsel at Article three Project. He is also 6 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 3: related to the Internet Accountability Project, which examines the impact 7 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 3: of what's known as Section two thirty. He's a graduate 8 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 3: of Georgetown Law and he's worked in corporate law in California. 9 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 2: And well, Will. 10 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 3: Is just great and of course he's been on the 11 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,319 Speaker 3: show before. So Will, thanks for joining us. 12 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 4: Great to be with you, Daniel. 13 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 2: Awesome. 14 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 3: Well, I thought we could start today by maybe you 15 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 3: telling me a little bit about your reaction to Nassy's race. 16 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 3: You know, we saw that he lost his race in Kentucky, 17 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 3: and of course we have a lot of the Twitter 18 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 3: people who are shocked, or some people are even saying 19 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 3: he's going to be running for president, or of course 20 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 3: in his address he said be trying to contact his 21 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,960 Speaker 3: opponent from Tel Aviv or something. And so I don't know, 22 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 3: it's strange because a lot of these Twitter wars that 23 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 3: I see, I feel like, really are just kind of 24 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 3: a Twitter thing and they're not really real life thing. 25 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 3: But it's interesting to see someone who's like an actual 26 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 3: candidate or person who's an office who's kind of acting 27 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 3: like that's real. I don't know, I just thought it 28 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 3: was very strange. But what did you make of the race? 29 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 3: What did you think? 30 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 5: Well, on a personal level, I find his conduct kind 31 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 5: of bizarre. I mean, he in the last week of 32 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 5: the race, he threatened tossue me personally over my Twitter comments, 33 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 5: among other things. I think the general lesson here, obviously 34 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 5: is that Donald Trump is the leader of the Republican 35 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 5: Party and that any Republican should be going you know, 36 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 5: you certainly shouldn't be making an enemy of Donald Trump. 37 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 5: And he's a pretty tolerant person in the sense they'll tolerate, 38 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 5: you know, bucking him on certain issues. But Thomas Massey 39 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 5: basically made it his mission to oppose the president Atwarda's agenda. Well, 40 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 5: guess what, you're a Republican and you're going to lose 41 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 5: the support of the Republican Party and Republican primary voters 42 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 5: don't like that very much either, you know, And there's 43 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 5: sort of I think there's a big meta narrative that's 44 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 5: really mistaken here, which is this idea that this is 45 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 5: like Israel buying the seat right somehow. I mean, there's 46 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 5: so many different ways in which that's wrong. But I 47 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 5: think the most obvious and important one is that Thomas 48 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 5: Massey was not short of money. That was not a 49 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 5: problem in his race. You know, Gaalrain managed to raise 50 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 5: and Allied packs raise something like fifteen to twenty million, 51 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 5: but Massy raised between ten and fifteen and ten to 52 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:31,799 Speaker 5: fifty million is plenty of money for a house race, right. 53 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 5: I'm sure your husband would love that. I think he'd 54 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:37,959 Speaker 5: be thrilled. It's a lot of money. It means that 55 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 5: everybody in your district is going to hear what you 56 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 5: have to say and be aware of your message. The 57 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 5: problem is Massey's message was schizophrenic. It was on the 58 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 5: one hand, President Trump is you know, forwarding the Maga 59 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 5: agenda and pretending, you know, stopping the release of the 60 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 5: Epstein files, silliness like that. In the other hand, I 61 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 5: still have lots of work to do with President Trump 62 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 5: because he's great. You can't that message, could you reconciled? 63 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 5: It was incoherent and as a result, President Trump and 64 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 5: gall Rain were able to come in and say, this 65 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,799 Speaker 5: is a really simple race. Massy's standing the way of 66 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 5: the Trump agenda. I'm in for you know, I'm a 67 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 5: Navy seal with four bronze stars. Vote for me, a real, 68 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 5: real simple and that was sufficient to It's very hard 69 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 5: to knock out an incumbent, right. Massey has tons of money, 70 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 5: tons of name recognition. He's a very famous person, probably 71 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 5: one of these single most famous House members. And that 72 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 5: didn't matter at the end of the day because Donald 73 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 5: Trump wanted him gone and Massy's conduct had alienated a 74 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 5: huge chunk of his district enough to mean that he 75 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 5: lost by ten. 76 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's amazing, and to mean that people are still 77 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 3: not aware of this fact. People are still learning this 78 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 3: lesson after Trump has been on the scene so long. 79 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 3: He's made it so clear he's the head of the 80 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 3: Republican Party. He's the president right now. He's not just 81 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 3: the leader of the party, he's literally a president. And 82 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 3: we have these three branches. We're trying to get things done. 83 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 3: So when you have someone who's voting against us, not 84 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 3: with us, when we have the slim majority, I don't 85 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 3: think the American people have tolerance for it. I think 86 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 3: they're just done with it because they want they want 87 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 3: the things they voted for it to actually happen. And 88 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 3: so if you're someone who's going against Trump on everything, 89 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 3: then that seems so just counterintuitor to what voters want. 90 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 3: But it's almost like they painted as though, you know, 91 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 3: he's the person that people would want. But then there's 92 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 3: Tel Aviv or there's some outside you know force that's 93 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 3: pushing Trump, but I mean, that's not reality in real life. 94 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 5: It's like if you actually watch the ads, like you know, 95 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 5: I mean, the voters in Kentucky don't care about Israel 96 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 5: right like, or a few of them probably do, but 97 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 5: it's not probably not on their top ten list of 98 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 5: what they care about. And if you actually watch the ads, 99 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 5: Israel was like not present in them, except in Nassi's 100 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,239 Speaker 5: ads where he was trying to say, my opponent's funded 101 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 5: by Israel. 102 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 4: So you see how well that argument went. 103 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 5: But if you looked at what gal Rain and his 104 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 5: ally packs were saying, they were just playing the clips 105 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 5: of President Trump calling Massy a clown over and over 106 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 5: again like that's and that was persuasive to voters in 107 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 5: Kentucky four who had just voted for President Trump to 108 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 5: win in twenty twenty four by something like a two 109 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 5: to one margin. You know, it's one of the most 110 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 5: conservative districts in the country, so you know, and also 111 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 5: Massey has not been a friend of Israel for a 112 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 5: long time and he's been a seven term congressman. If 113 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:20,840 Speaker 5: it was merely the Israel stuff, he would have been 114 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:24,239 Speaker 5: out office four years ago, six years ago when IPAX 115 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 5: still wanted him out of office. But that didn't work, and 116 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 5: that wasn't what led to a successful primary challenge. It 117 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 5: was really President Trump putting his informater on the challenge, 118 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 5: making it, going to the district, holding a rally with 119 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 5: ed Galran talking about how Massey was a clown. You know, 120 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 5: even on the day of the election, you had Massey 121 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,359 Speaker 5: putting out this fake, non it, you know, old endorsement, 122 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 5: and Trump broke his Twitter silence or his ex silence 123 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 5: to go on X and call Massy out for falsely 124 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 5: putting out an endorsement and telling him to revoke it. 125 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 5: Stephen Miller put out X videos forrain Pete Hegseth went 126 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,919 Speaker 5: to Kentucky to endorse Galray in his personal capacity. The 127 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 5: entire administration wanted Massy gone, and all the people who 128 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 5: are like, well it's really Israel, Like, what are you 129 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 5: talking about? We are the most The Trump administration is 130 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 5: incredibly powerful, and a slew of senior members of the 131 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 5: Trump administration made it their personal mission to make sure 132 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 5: Thomas Massey lost and you're whining about Israel, like, actually 133 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 5: blame the people responsible. But they can't do that because 134 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 5: everybody loves Trump and all their voters love Trump, and 135 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 5: they know that, and so they have you know, it's 136 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 5: this constant all of these people are engaged in this 137 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 5: constant weird dance where they like don't like the thing 138 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 5: Trump is doing, but don't want to criticize Trump for 139 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 5: it because he's so popular, And so they find some 140 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 5: shadowy third party in the distance who's really controlling Trump. 141 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 5: And in a sense, it's kind of like a weird 142 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 5: version of Russia Gate, because it's saying that our billionaire 143 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 5: real estate magnate is really secretly controlled by. 144 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:54,239 Speaker 3: A forigm power, some kind of outside source, even though 145 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 3: the reality is Trump setting the agenda, he doesn't want 146 00:06:57,960 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 3: to support it. 147 00:06:59,000 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 2: He's anti Trump. 148 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 3: He decided to go to war with Trump, and all 149 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 3: the candidates who have really gone to war with Trump. 150 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 2: I mean hasn't really worked out for them. I mean 151 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 2: compared to if you're the biggest. 152 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 3: Congressman or senator whoever there is against the president. I mean, 153 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 3: where do you think that's going to end up for you? 154 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 4: Yeah? 155 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 5: I mean its unbelievably resilient. I mean, you know, I 156 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 5: worked for the DeSantis campaign during the primary. I watched 157 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 5: this happen and you know, learned my lesson quite well, 158 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 5: thank you very much. Uh. You know, if the guy 159 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 5: was able to recover from the depths of the post 160 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 5: January sixth law fair against him and become president of 161 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 5: the United States again, you think you're going to take 162 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 5: him down now when he's when he's sitting in the 163 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 5: Oval office. That's your that's your plan. Uh, Like he's 164 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 5: the you know, the American people in the special Republican 165 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 5: primary voters are sticking by Donald Trump. He's the most 166 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 5: popular person in the party. And anybody who decides to 167 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 5: even if they were popular before, if they decide to 168 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 5: pick a fight with Donald Trump, they lose a lot 169 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 5: of popularity very quickly. I think Tucker Carlson is the 170 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 5: biggest case in point there. 171 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, where do you see that going with 172 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 3: I guess, I guess, I guess. It actually surprised me 173 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 3: because I think at the beginning, I thought, Okay, it's 174 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 3: kind of like these certain specific criticisms, it's kind of 175 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 3: this Israel focus, and then it moved to being Trump, 176 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 3: you know, himself. And I guess, do you think that 177 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 3: that kind of sentiment is going to continue? Is that 178 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 3: going to pick up on the conservative side, or is 179 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 3: it more like the certain audience that is kind of. 180 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 4: It's going to continue? 181 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 5: And I think it's it's a product of the globalization 182 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 5: of the audience for a conservative American media, especially independent media. 183 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 5: You don't hear the stuff on Fox News. They wouldn't, 184 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 5: they'd lose all their entire audience. But on YouTube, you're 185 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,079 Speaker 5: you're speaking to the entire globe, and so you see 186 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 5: like suddenly, you know, Tucker Carlson is out there defending 187 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 5: the honor of Islam. Why is that happening? He didn't 188 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 5: do that ten years ago. Now he's defending the honor 189 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 5: of Islam, and and he's his network was bragging about 190 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 5: their increased global audience for their content. It's like, yeah, 191 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 5: there are billion and a half Muslims in the world. 192 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 5: If you know, there's a lot of balls that can 193 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 5: watch your content if your pro is long. But that's 194 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 5: not reflective of the American population, where you know, Muslims 195 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 5: are less than one percent, I believe, of the national population. 196 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 5: And you know, especially Republican primary voters have no interest 197 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 5: in Islamic apologetics from anybody, let you know, and Tucker's 198 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 5: made that a big part of his work in addition 199 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 5: to his Israel criticism. That's just not going to fly 200 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 5: among Republican primary voters and as a result, every you know, 201 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 5: I think at this point every guest in the last 202 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 5: six months or so that every politician he's had on 203 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 5: either has lost or is going to lose in short order. 204 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 5: Like I think the only one who hasn't had their 205 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 5: primary yet among this group is James Fishback, and he's 206 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:43,319 Speaker 5: about to be given a fifty piece by Barron Donald's. 207 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 3: So yeah, definitely, I mean, and it's interesting because they 208 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,839 Speaker 3: act like all they care about is the clicks, all 209 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 3: they care about is the views. But then it's kind 210 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 3: of like if all we cared about its views. I mean, 211 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 3: not to go dark, but you would basically end up 212 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 3: in the pornography industry because that's where there's tons of viewers. 213 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 3: I guess I don't know, but obviously there's like a 214 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 3: sense of standards and actual beliefs, And if you really 215 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 3: are conservative, you would actually want Trump to succeed, and 216 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:13,559 Speaker 3: you'd want us to get a lot of things done 217 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 3: up here while we have the chance to do that. 218 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 3: So while these people who are trying to hinder hinder that, 219 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 3: who are trying to you know, undo undo his his 220 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 3: influence even though he's Republican president, I think just shows 221 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 3: that there's just not a lot of ideological attachment to 222 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 3: actually conservatism, I mean, putting aside whoever whoever's in office. 223 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 3: But I guess, how do you think conservatism will luck 224 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 3: if there's so much I guess full into just like 225 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 3: the international international audience. 226 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 5: I mean, it's I don't know what conservatism will look like. 227 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 5: I just think that this podcast spear has enough international 228 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 5: support to kind of sustain. 229 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 4: Itself and keep doing what it's doing. 230 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 5: But I think it will have less and less influence 231 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 5: on American conservative politics as more and where people recognize 232 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 5: these people can't move elections. They can't move voters, not 233 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 5: here and not among the voters they need. You know, 234 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 5: they're just not speaking to the American conservative audience anymore. 235 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 5: And so you'll see the people who are staying within 236 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 5: what actually American Republican primary voters listen to. People like Dambongino, 237 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 5: for example. It's just like, off the top of my head, 238 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 5: somebody like that. You know your dad, you know Denesh 239 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,959 Speaker 5: does a great job of this. You're just going to 240 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 5: see more of those people grow it, grow and remain 241 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 5: as influential as they are, and become more influential because 242 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 5: people realize vote, but actual voters listen to those people 243 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 5: and are influenced and persuaded by them, Whereas whoever's listening 244 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 5: to Tucker right now is not voting in these Republican 245 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 5: primary elections and trying to get his endorsement is like 246 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 5: getting the kiss of death. 247 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, and we saw the same thing, I think in Ohio. 248 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 3: It's just interesting because it's almost like, maybe are we 249 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 3: all being awulled into thinking these people are big threats 250 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 3: when in reality they're not. Like I don't know Nick 251 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 3: Flinte's threaten he's gonna not vote in for the Republican 252 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty eight. It's kind of like, Okay, don't 253 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 3: then I don't know that's fine. I mean, don't how 254 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 3: many people is he pulling in that are going to 255 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 3: swing the election? 256 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 5: Who are He's got like a tiny colt following of 257 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 5: like young men who probably wouldn't be voting anyways. It's 258 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 5: not the first time he's I mean, he's been making 259 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 5: threats to say demand that because Republicans don't do what 260 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 5: he wants, he's going to go vote for Democrats for 261 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 5: a decade now almost And look where it's got in. 262 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 5: President Trump is in power again. The Republican Party is 263 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,839 Speaker 5: I think at the height of its Honestly, we're probably 264 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 5: as powerful an institution as we've been, especially the new 265 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 5: Trump Republican Party ever. Honestly, you know, we're a lot. 266 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:47,839 Speaker 5: The administration is much more effective and has consolidated much 267 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 5: more power and influence than it had in the first administration. 268 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 5: I think that's I mean, this administration is extraordinarily effective 269 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 5: and it's using the power. Has to just do a 270 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 5: lot of different things, both domestically and in foreign policy 271 00:12:58,040 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 5: that it wasn't able to do because it's kind of 272 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 5: hamstrong and by Mueller and Russia Gate and all that 273 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:02,719 Speaker 5: stuff in the first term. 274 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I wanted to get your thoughts because you're 275 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 3: a legal expert on I guess where do you see 276 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 3: the Supreme Court as far as it seems like they've 277 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 3: been doing a lot to. 278 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 2: Kind of undo DEI. 279 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 3: They've been doing a lot to undo the wrongs that 280 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 3: have been committed against people based on race, and they 281 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 3: seems like they're kind of saying, you know what, we 282 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 3: want more equal playing field. And I think that played 283 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 3: out with kind of the redistricting that we might be seeing. Now. 284 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 3: Do you think the Court is kind of going to 285 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 3: be moving in that direction? Because I know sometimes the 286 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 3: Court does things and then people on the right get 287 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 3: annoyed because it's not maybe what they wanted, But then 288 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 3: other things they're doing actually they might be good and 289 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 3: they might actually be influential. What's your kind of read 290 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 3: on where you see things going with that? 291 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 5: I think that the Court is at its strongest in 292 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 5: this sort of broader project to unwind every best user 293 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 5: of racial discrimination you know, in you know, our common 294 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:00,559 Speaker 5: law and in constitutional law in particular. So basically the 295 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 5: remaining racial discrimination is all this sort of left wing 296 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 5: DEI affirmative action stuff that is designed to like do 297 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 5: racial being counting and help out Democrats in terms of 298 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 5: their electoral prospects, and that's just not going anywhere. So 299 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 5: you know, obviously students for faired missions means that you 300 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 5: can't really do affirmative action in colleges anymore. And then 301 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 5: you've got Harmy Dillon now running the Civil Rights Division 302 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 5: and she's taking that precedent and litigating all over the 303 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 5: country with it. And then you have this recent Louisi 304 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 5: Van and versus Cale decision that just eviscerates all these 305 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 5: majority minority districts, makes it so that any sort of 306 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 5: intentional use of race and districting is presumptively unconstitutional. That's 307 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 5: going to have a huge impact too, you know, we're 308 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 5: and it's creating a great environment for Republicans. I think, 309 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 5: you know, the Supreme Court hasn't been good on everything, 310 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 5: and I suspect they're not going to be great on everything, 311 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 5: and that's okay, Like, we'll live with that. We it's 312 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 5: the best court we've ever had by a mile. And 313 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 5: I'm sure conservatives can look back things like Dobbs and 314 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 5: finally getting rid of Roby Wade and a variety of 315 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 5: other major major wins in terms of Second Amendment rights. Gosh, 316 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 5: they've been great on Second Amendment rights Bruin the most 317 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 5: recent case. So we're getting a lot of wins out 318 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 5: Supreme Court. We're not getting every win like we lost 319 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 5: on tariffs, we're probably going to lose on birthright citizenship. 320 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 5: But outside of that, I think we're getting a lot 321 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 5: of good wins, and in particular, I think this redistricting 322 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 5: case getting a solid six three majority. We're in good 323 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 5: shape there. And the other thing is that the progressives 324 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 5: on the Court are kind of marginalizing themselves. Kintanji Jackson's 325 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 5: terrible descents that are really offensive at obnoxious have alienated 326 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 5: the conservative part of the Court totally and have meant 327 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 5: that they just don't really have much influence over the 328 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 5: way things are happening. Additionally, I think this is something 329 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 5: that came out of Molly Hemingway's book where she talked 330 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 5: about how in the aftermath of the Dobbs leak, of 331 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 5: the leak of the opinion overturning Roby Wade, all the 332 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 5: Supreme Court justices were getting threats. There was the crazy 333 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 5: person who went to this as Kavanaugh's house to threaten 334 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 5: to kill him, and the Supreme Court conservative justices were 335 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 5: staying to the liberals, like, hey, can we get this 336 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 5: opinion out the door so people stop thinking they can 337 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 5: like kill us and change the result here. And the 338 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 5: Democrats said no, and they just they they dug in 339 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 5: their feet till the last minute. I think there's that 340 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 5: means there's just a complete lack of trust now from 341 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 5: the conservative justices towards the liberal justices. So really they 342 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 5: just don't they get to write their descents, but you know, 343 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 5: they don't really get to do much here. 344 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of in a way, Well, I don't 345 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 3: know it's a bad thing because obviously it's a huge breakdown, 346 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 3: but a wait, maybe it's good because sometimes I think, 347 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 3: you know, normal people who don't want familiar with the 348 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 3: court and all of the dynamics involved might think, well, 349 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 3: why would they work together, you know, like is that 350 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 3: the UNI party or like is there some kind of 351 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 3: conspiracy or something. But it's kind of like, you know, 352 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 3: I'm sure because there's only nine of them that they 353 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 3: have a pretty good sense of what's going on, have 354 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 3: a rapport with the other people. And some people have 355 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 3: a certain lens with which they view things, and another 356 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 3: justice another lens. But if they're choosing to isolate themselves 357 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 3: on purpose they clearly don't have any good will towards 358 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 3: the other side. 359 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 2: Then maybe the. 360 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 3: Conservative justices will feel less like they need to appease them. 361 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:20,640 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that's that's a good way of understanding 362 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 5: what's happening. They don't feel like they have to accommodate 363 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 5: the liberals anymore. They don't see them as reasonable. I mean, 364 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 5: the only one who really they respect honestly is Kagan. 365 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 5: But Kagan's stuck with these kind of two very mediocre 366 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:37,159 Speaker 5: justices and one who's really behaving quite obnoxiously, treating her 367 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 5: descents like an op ed page. It's just it's not 368 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 5: good for them. And you know, people have said, oh, 369 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 5: we need to get Kataji Brown Jackson on the court, 370 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 5: and that's not my view. I'm happy to have her 371 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 5: sit on the court as long as she wants writing 372 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 5: her lonely obnoxious descents that alienate the remainder of the 373 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 5: conservative justices and keep a you know, a six to 374 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 5: three block, right. Remember, you know, if we win seven 375 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 5: two or sixty three, the results the same as long 376 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 5: as we have a majority. Kaitanji Brown Jackson being the 377 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 5: representative of progressive jurisprudence is wonderful for the conservative project. 378 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 3: Yes, okay, explain to us, why do you think we're 379 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 3: not going to get the birthright citizenship. 380 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 5: I think based on oral arguments, I thought we weren't winning. 381 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 5: I think both Roberts and Gorsuch seemed very skeptical, and 382 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 5: without the two of them, that would be you know, 383 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:28,199 Speaker 5: that would mean we'd add a minimum at most have 384 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 5: four justices. So I suspect just just the way the 385 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 5: skepticism of their questions at oral arguments made me think 386 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 5: they're not really inclined to it. That said, you know, 387 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 5: I actually talked with some of the people who wrote 388 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 5: Amekas briefs, and I think we have the better of 389 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,160 Speaker 5: the argument. Actually, like nobody had really done the originalist 390 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,439 Speaker 5: scholarship on the meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment citizenship clause 391 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 5: prior to the last couple of years when the Trump 392 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 5: administration trying to push on this issue made it so 393 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 5: something people had to re examine the law. You know, 394 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 5: what exactly how who exactly is entitled the citizenship under 395 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 5: the Constitution. 396 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 4: And I think it's actually we have the better. 397 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 5: Of the argument because there's a lot of categories of 398 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 5: people who weren't obviously were not going to be granted 399 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 5: citizenship when this was written, and among them were American Indians, 400 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 5: who were seen as even if they had their children 401 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 5: on American territory, were seen as elite having their allegiance 402 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 5: with a different sovereign. And there's something to the idea that, 403 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 5: you know, if American Indians who were on American territory 404 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 5: couldn't have their children become birthright citizens, then clearly it's 405 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 5: not obvious at all that the children of legal aliens 406 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 5: who have no legal domicile, who the law treats for 407 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 5: any number of intensive purposes as being beyond the border, 408 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 5: that they would obviously their children have birth right citizenship. 409 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 5: It's not obvious at all. And so you know, I'm 410 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 5: not saying I think we'll lose it. Like if I 411 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:51,919 Speaker 5: had a bet, I would bet against us prevailing. But 412 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,120 Speaker 5: I could also see a world where the Supreme Court 413 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,239 Speaker 5: the justices do their work and do their research and 414 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,120 Speaker 5: really get into the briefs and decide that we're, you know, 415 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 5: the side the administration is the better. 416 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 4: Of the argument. 417 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, let's say Roberts, you're right, he doesn't go with us. 418 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 3: What do you think about Gorsich though, because sometimes he's 419 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 3: really good. Sometimes I guess maybe he's skeptical of this. 420 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 3: Do you think that they see the reality of the 421 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,719 Speaker 3: world that we're living in right now that maybe when 422 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 3: you're applying the example you've said that actually does show 423 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 3: what was the intention originally and kind of explaining that 424 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:33,880 Speaker 3: example on how that would apply to today. 425 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 2: Would that be compelling to him or I mean it 426 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 2: would be compelling to him. 427 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 5: I just you know, I think he's you know, he 428 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 5: starts with the position he didn't he doesn't think it's 429 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,160 Speaker 5: obvious or like the right answer that was clear from 430 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 5: his questioning, And so the real issue is will he 431 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 5: change his mind as he does more reading and tries 432 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 5: to write an opinion, And he might. I'm not putting 433 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 5: it past him. I think I think people are a 434 00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 5: little too pessimistic. I think the odds that they have 435 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 5: hold great citizenship or one in five, one and four 436 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 5: something in that ballpark, you know, not not that things 437 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 5: like that happen. I wouldn't I wouldn't be shocked, but 438 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:09,439 Speaker 5: I'd also I wouldn't bet on it. 439 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:14,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, it seems like at least us having the court 440 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:19,159 Speaker 3: is positivity but of course some people worry about Kavanaugh 441 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 3: Alito being older. Do you think that, well, I guess 442 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:25,639 Speaker 3: it's hard to say because we don't know what's going 443 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 3: to happen in twenty twenty eight. But do you think 444 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 3: that they're going to be on the court for a while. 445 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 3: Do you think that they want to they want to 446 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 3: remain on the court as long as they can. 447 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,640 Speaker 5: I think they're going to remain, And I don't think 448 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 5: that's necessarily bad. They're just that, you know, it'd be 449 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 5: one thing if the newer justices were doing better than 450 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 5: Alito and Thomas, but they aren't. Alito and Thomas are 451 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 5: the best justices we have. And the three Trump appointees 452 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 5: are good, don't get me wrong. Like them, and they're 453 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 5: a big improvement over what came before, but they are 454 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 5: not our best justices. Alito and Thomas are our best justices. 455 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 5: So it's not obvious that their replacements would be as good. 456 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, we need to make sure whenever 457 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 3: we do have new people that. 458 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,479 Speaker 2: We don't know. I mean, how how did they how 459 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,120 Speaker 2: did how did those people get picked back then? 460 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 3: Too? Like they were found and they they were really good, 461 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 3: and oh, how do we repeat. 462 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 4: That process, you know we uh. 463 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 5: I mean, first they picked Gorsic because they were I 464 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 5: think looking for you know, Gorsich was a prestige candidate 465 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 5: and they were looking they at the time, the filibuster 466 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 5: was intact for Supreme Court nomies, if you remember, and 467 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 5: they wanted somebody who to get past a filibuster. They thought, 468 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 5: you know, well, Gorsich is resumes, impeccable, no personal problems 469 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 5: at all, Like he's just a conservative. But you know, 470 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,439 Speaker 5: the Democrats have to accept that we're Republicans. We get 471 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 5: to a point Republican Supreme Court justices, and the Democrats 472 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 5: were like, nah, we're still not going to vote for him. 473 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 4: We don't care. 474 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 5: Like he's perfectly qualified and there's no scandal, but we 475 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 5: and we don't care. 476 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 4: Uh. 477 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 5: And that So that's I think why Gorsich was first chosen. 478 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 5: And then Kavanaugh. I think I think President Trump like 479 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 5: Kavna Kavvina, I had been on shortlist for a long time. He, 480 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 5: I mean, excellent writer, brilliant guy. One thing that's really 481 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 5: true about the conservative justices, like where they land on 482 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 5: policy and how good they are in my judgment, does 483 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 5: not take away from the fact that all of them 484 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 5: are uniformly brilliant, all of them to a person, right, like, 485 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 5: every single conservative justice is like premier legal intellect. Whether 486 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,880 Speaker 5: I like their philosophy or some of their judging beside, 487 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 5: but like, they're all brilliant. And so Calvanaugh was on 488 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 5: that list as you know, you know, blue Blood had worked, 489 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 5: you know, was on a DC circuit, had written a 490 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 5: bunch of really good opinions, including an incredible gun rights 491 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 5: descent that I remember reading when I was in law school. 492 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 5: And so he was just kind of an obvious pick 493 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 5: as a potential Republican Supreme Court justice. Everybody knew him 494 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 5: as somebody who could be on a shore list. 495 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:38,159 Speaker 2: Wow. 496 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 3: And then what about when you think back to Clarence 497 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 3: Thomas and Justice Alito, how did those people get chosen? 498 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 4: Well, Clarence Thomas was interesting. I think he was. 499 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 5: He was there because they George Bush wanted to replace 500 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 5: Thurgood Marshall. Also, George Bush had taken some heat because 501 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 5: he appointed David Souter, who turned out to be a 502 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 5: flaming liberal, which was a huge, huge, really pissed off 503 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 5: the conservative base. So he tried to go hard in 504 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 5: the other direction. Thomas was his pick. Thomas was very 505 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 5: young at the time. He'd have been in his early forties, 506 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 5: I think. And Thomas is an interesting pick because I 507 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 5: don't think his credentials were not at this at the 508 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 5: level of like the current sir, for example, Kavanaugh's credentials, 509 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 5: Like I'm not even sure. I think I don't know 510 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 5: if Thomas had been a judge or if he had 511 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 5: been a judge it was briefly, So Thomas is an 512 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 5: interesting pick for that. 513 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:26,640 Speaker 4: Alito. 514 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:31,639 Speaker 5: The story of Alito's nomination was all about how first 515 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 5: George Bush George W. Bush had appointed Harriet Myers to 516 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:41,479 Speaker 5: replace Santrade O'Connor, but Harriet Myers was his general counsel, 517 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 5: his White House counsel, but didn't have basically like the 518 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 5: the Republican senators were like, we have no idea what 519 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 5: she thinks, and we're not going to gamble with you. 520 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 5: So you need you need to actually put up a 521 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,959 Speaker 5: judge with a real record that we can analyze. And 522 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 5: so when the Myers nomination went down, they went to Aledo, 523 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,439 Speaker 5: who had a really, really sterling record on the third Circuit. 524 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. 525 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 3: Wow, they've been absolutely incredible in a way. So it's 526 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 3: just like, yeah, we can't he let them leave because 527 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 3: they have to stay along as possible too. 528 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 4: They're too good. They got to say they're too good. 529 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 2: They're too good. 530 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 3: They need to mentor everybody else and leave a really 531 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 3: strong impact. Okay, when you look to I guess the 532 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 3: rest of this year, when you think about upcoming things 533 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 3: going on, we kind of established Okay, Trump leader of 534 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 3: the party. What do you think people are going to 535 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,360 Speaker 3: be looking for in the midterms when they're you. 536 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 5: Know, it's it's hard to say, because I mean it's 537 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 5: really we still have this sort of Iran as in Limbo. 538 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 5: I think is the best way to understand what's going on, 539 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 5: and somehow that's going to get resolved one of the 540 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 5: way or the other. I think President Trump is going 541 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,400 Speaker 5: to outright win it. I think I think that's what's 542 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 5: ultimately happen. I just don't think the Iranians. The Iranians 543 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 5: have been dragging their feet for months now, and I 544 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,679 Speaker 5: think that Trump is finally and to get tired of 545 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 5: it pretty soon. And then Cuba is also an interesting 546 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,439 Speaker 5: lingering thing. We just had the announcement that Rollo Castro 547 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 5: was indicted, and after what happened in Venezuela, where we 548 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 5: had an indictment on Nicholas Maduro and then send in 549 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 5: Delta Forest to kidnap in the middle of the night. 550 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 5: I think the Cubans, we everybody sort of understands that 551 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,360 Speaker 5: that indictment, even though it might of a foreign head 552 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,440 Speaker 5: of state might seem symbolic, or may have seemed symbolic 553 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 5: a few years ago, doesn't really seem very symbolic now. 554 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 5: So I think I think something's coming on Cuba. And 555 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 5: then the question is if if Trump can resolve the 556 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 5: horror Moves issue, will the economy be humming, will things 557 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,159 Speaker 5: be looking good for you know, people's pocketbooks. It's a 558 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 5: weird time. I mean, it's things are so polarized, and 559 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 5: like if you look at the you know, approval numbers, 560 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 5: it seems like people are. 561 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:35,880 Speaker 4: Furious a Trump right now. 562 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 5: But then it's not clear the Democrats are much more 563 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 5: popular at all, and they just seem to get crazier 564 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 5: and crazier. I think we have a fighting chance in 565 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 5: the midterms. I think we're I think we're probably going 566 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 5: to lose the House, but I think we'll probably keep 567 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 5: the Senate. And I and I think the sort of 568 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,239 Speaker 5: idea of you know, this massive blue wave. I just 569 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 5: I doubt it. I doubt a massive blue wave this time. 570 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 4: I don't. 571 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 5: I think the Democrats are still kind of crazy and 572 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 5: are nominated some bizarro world candidates that are really going 573 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 5: to give them problems, like Platner and Maine, who's just 574 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 5: got issues for days, especially in a place like Maine 575 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 5: that Susan Collins has won over and over and over again. 576 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 2: Right, absolutely, Okay. 577 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,440 Speaker 3: Last question is, as we look ahead twenty twenty eight, 578 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 3: how do you think it's going to go with having 579 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 3: this Republican primary, Having this race while Trump is president? 580 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 3: Do you think that's going to be kind of weird 581 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 3: because like we have his leader to the president, Trump's going. 582 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 5: To pick his man, and that's the guy who's going 583 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 5: to run to follow him. My guess is it'll end 584 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 5: up being Jadvance. But like the moment Trump says I 585 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 5: endorse this person for president, that person will be the 586 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,880 Speaker 5: front runner and everybody else will be expected to get 587 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 5: out of the way, and so I doubt we will 588 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 5: have any sort of bruising primary. It's a very interesting situation, 589 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 5: and that Trump wielding his power so aggressively, it's hard 590 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 5: to see him as a lame duck. Right, he's just 591 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,479 Speaker 5: and moreover because he's still If you remember, George W. 592 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 5: Bush at the end of his term, was extremely unpopular, 593 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 5: so his endorsement wasn't really worth very much at all. 594 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,199 Speaker 5: Like he was so so unpopular and unpopular within the party. 595 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 5: That's the key thing. Like people were really tired of 596 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 5: a rock and GEORGEA. Bibish had lost a lot of 597 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 5: popularity among Republicans. But Trump, I don't think we'll be there, 598 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 5: Like things are still kind of fresh for the second term, 599 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 5: and he's doing a lot of really good things. So 600 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 5: Trump's endorsement will. 601 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 4: Be the key. 602 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 5: And I expect you to go to Vance, but it 603 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 5: might go to Rubio, who knows. But that's that's what 604 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 5: will ultimately resolve it. Like Trump, Trump will endorse and Trump, 605 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,640 Speaker 5: you know, the Republican voter primary voters will go where 606 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 5: he wants them to go. 607 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I really don't see them running against each other. 608 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,400 Speaker 3: I think they had said that and I don't think 609 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 3: they will in Trump And there will probably be these 610 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 3: like other random people who will run, but they won't 611 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 3: really it won't matter. 612 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 5: It'll be it's like whoever Trump chooses, and Trump will 613 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 5: almost certainly choose one to vance a Rubio most likely vance. 614 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 4: What do you think, and then they'll work together. 615 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you think they're going to run as a 616 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 2: team and the other one will be. 617 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 5: Wouldn't be surprised at all. I could see very easily 618 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 5: advancer Rubio ticket. That's the thing that makes the most sense. 619 00:28:58,320 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. Awesome. 620 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 3: Well, well, thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciate it. 621 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 3: All of your great work article three projects, so make 622 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 3: sure to follow Will on social media and check out 623 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 3: all of his work. So thanks so much. 624 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 4: Thanks Daniel. 625 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: Breaking down politics, culture, and the buzz of the day 626 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: with bold conversations about faith, family, and living. 627 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 5: What you believe. 628 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 2: This is the Danielle gil Show.