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Speaker 1: My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro

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Speaker 1: American student organization in the country, fighting for the future

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Speaker 1: of our republic. My call is to fight evil and

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Speaker 1: to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you

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Speaker 1: is just feeling good, you're gonna end up miserable. But

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Speaker 1: if the most important thing is doing good, you'll end

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Speaker 1: up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You got to

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Speaker 1: stop sending your kids to college. You should get married

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Speaker 1: as young as possible and have as many kids as possible.

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Speaker 1: Go start at turning point, you would say, college chapter.

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Speaker 1: Go start aturning point, you say high school chapter. Go

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Speaker 1: find out how your church can get involved. Sign up

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Speaker 1: and become an activist. I gave my life to the

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Speaker 1: Lord in fifth grade, most important decision I ever made

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Speaker 1: in my life, and I encourage you to do the same.

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Speaker 1: Here I am Lord, Use me. Buckle up, everybody, Here

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Speaker 1: we go. The Charlie Kirk Show is proudly sponsored by

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Speaker 1: Preserved Gold, leading gold and silver experts and the only

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Speaker 1: precious metals company. I recommend to my family, friends and viewers.

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Speaker 1: I could say the only conservative professor at Cambridge University,

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Speaker 1: doctor Orr, who is a contributing editor for Heritaane Culture

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Speaker 1: at gb News, Doctor James or everybody here to be

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Speaker 1: with you, Charlie, doctor or great to see you. First.

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Speaker 1: I want to just you know, you sat through the presentation,

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Speaker 1: You've been around all of this as a as a

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Speaker 1: brit as a professor. What is your take on this

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Speaker 1: whole thing we have gone on here?

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Speaker 2: Well, I got to say, first off, I was saying

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Speaker 2: to Andrew earlier, it's pretty overwhelming for a brit like

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Speaker 2: me to see the scale of your success and of

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Speaker 2: your ambition, what you've achieved. There's that, you know, lots

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Speaker 2: of lots of students at Cambridge claim they want to

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Speaker 2: change the world, that they can go into jobs that

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Speaker 2: are going to change the world. And I thought to

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Speaker 2: myself this morning, you really could say that you are

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Speaker 2: changing the world. As America goes, so goes the world,

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Speaker 2: and that's what you're doing. You're doing extraordinary things in

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Speaker 2: transforming America, recalling it to its founding ideals, promoting people

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Speaker 2: of caliber and character and courage, particularly among the young.

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Speaker 2: This is a huge problem for us on the right

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Speaker 2: in Britain and we're working very hard on it. And

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Speaker 2: I just felt both envious but also excited because I

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Speaker 2: thought we can we can bottle some courtjuice and take

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Speaker 2: it over to Britain, and we need to work out

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Speaker 2: what the DNA is, and we need to try to

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Speaker 2: replicate it as best we can. It's hard to do that,

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Speaker 2: particularly if you're a movement that's focusing on national pride

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Speaker 2: and national distinctiveness and sovereignty and so on. You can't

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Speaker 2: just copy and paste everything that you're doing. Of course,

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Speaker 2: with a very different constitutional setup, very different electoral dynamics,

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Speaker 2: very different challenges in many ways. But I think philosophically

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Speaker 2: we're very much there. We're very much on the same page.

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Speaker 2: That is to say, we want to work out what

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Speaker 2: the not so much what the politic of left and

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Speaker 2: right is. I think that's the sort of the politics,

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Speaker 2: the philosophy of the what I call the Long twentieth

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Speaker 2: century nineteen fourteen to twenty sixteen. I think the Long

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Speaker 2: twentieth century ended in twenty sixteen, and the politics of

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Speaker 2: left and right ended in twenty sixteen, and we're now

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Speaker 2: talking about the politics of national preference, the politics of

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Speaker 2: national interest. This is still still kind of shocking to

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Speaker 2: the liberal ear, but this is the direction of travel

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Speaker 2: for the new Right on both sides of the Atlantic.

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Speaker 1: So what do you mean by that the long twentieth century.

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Speaker 2: Well, so historians like to talk about this that you know,

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Speaker 2: we periodizing in history is always very very very difficult,

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Speaker 2: and you know, it turns out that that human development

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Speaker 2: doesn't always obey neat neat time periods. But of course

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Speaker 2: we know what we mean by the twentieth century. But

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Speaker 2: I think there are these sort of history doesn't quite

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Speaker 2: obey those neat kind of neat neat even divisions. And

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Speaker 2: so historians will sometimes talk about the long nineteenth century

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Speaker 2: that sort of began roughly in eighteen fifteen and probably

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Speaker 2: ended in nineteen fourteen, right, eighteen fifteen Congress of Vienna,

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Speaker 2: and then really you've got this extraordinary period of peace

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Speaker 2: in Europe, and then nineteen fourteen is really the point

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Speaker 2: at which that piece explodes. And so I think also

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Speaker 2: we can talk about the long twentieth century persisting in

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Speaker 2: some ways beyond twenty to twenty sixteen as a fundamental

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Speaker 2: watershed moment in how we think about national flourishing, how

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Speaker 2: we think about politics, how we think about the organizing

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Speaker 2: axes and horizons of national flourishing, of mutual flourish.

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Speaker 1: Was that Brexit plus Trump? Is that why you think

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Speaker 1: twenty sixteen was the year that began the twenty first century.

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Speaker 2: I think that's right. I think it's always easy to

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Speaker 2: conflate the two phenomena. They had distinct phenomena in lots

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Speaker 2: of ways, but there's lots of overlaps too, and I

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Speaker 2: think that it really marks a moment of change in

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Speaker 2: the West. And it's very convenient point. It's not just

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Speaker 2: Brexit and Trump, it's also the rise of pronation national

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Speaker 2: conservative movements all across Europe. You're seeing it with Vaux

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Speaker 2: in Spain, You're seeing it with Jager in Portugal, You're

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Speaker 2: seeing with AfD in Germany. You're seeing it with the

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Speaker 2: Hassean blemm Nacnale in France, the Fertlli del Italia in Australia,

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Speaker 2: seeing it in Italy, I'm sorry, and in Austria as well,

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Speaker 2: all over Europe. For deaths in Hungary and going at

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Speaker 2: different speeds. And you know, one of the challenges Conservatives

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Speaker 2: are always trying to conserve what is our own and

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Speaker 2: so it's actually very difficult to form. What of the

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Speaker 2: Communists used to have a comm Intern. It's very difficult

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Speaker 2: to have a con intern because you know, Marx could

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Speaker 2: say workers of the World unite, the progressives can say

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Speaker 2: Wokesters of the world unite. Right, it's a fundamentally transnational ideology.

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Speaker 2: That's that's very very powerful. This is a movement something

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Speaker 2: that moves in lockstep before conserving our own nations. It's

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Speaker 2: much harder to have that sense of international solidarity. But

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Speaker 2: you know, I think various movements have tried to catalyze that,

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Speaker 2: in the National Conservatism movement, which I'm proudly that the

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Speaker 2: chair of in the UK is helping to do that,

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Speaker 2: and and so yeah, that's that's a big challenge.

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Speaker 1: So so what do you think led towards that national

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Speaker 1: conservatism moment? And let's go a step back and also

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Speaker 1: take a moment introduce yourself. You you teach the Western

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Speaker 1: care at Cambridge. Correct.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't say I'm not allowed to teach the Western canon,

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Speaker 2: so it would be sort of too big. But to

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Speaker 2: give you an example, I teach a program in moral

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Speaker 2: philosophy from Plato through to Nietzsche, that includes Aristotle, that

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Speaker 2: includes August and inclusive Quinas cant Hume. So as much

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Speaker 2: of the kind of classic Western philosophers as I can

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Speaker 2: fit in and then and then I also teach an

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Speaker 2: Enfild program. But probably speaking, yes, I teach Western philosophers

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Speaker 2: without the but not through the prism and not through

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Speaker 2: the lens of kind of critical theory. I try not

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Speaker 2: to politicize my teaching in any way. Of course, that

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Speaker 2: itself is a political act these days. Just trying to

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Speaker 2: be neutral, trying to try to listen to these ancient,

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Speaker 2: ancient thinkers on their own terms and not trying to

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Speaker 2: force ideological kind of masks onto them. But but yes,

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Speaker 2: I see myself very much, you know, as trying to

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Speaker 2: pass on what is best in the Western tradition. I

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Speaker 2: think really universities have only three primary purposes. That is,

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Speaker 2: to pursue the truth, to preserve the truth, and to

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Speaker 2: pass on the truth. And then those are the kind

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Speaker 2: of you know, there's a little bit crude, but those

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Speaker 2: are the kind of the three piece. Those are the

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Speaker 2: sort of three That's the way I sort of think

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Speaker 2: about what I'm doing. So partly it is preserving the

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Speaker 2: best of what has been said and thought in the West,

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Speaker 2: but it's also not wanting to kind of you know,

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Speaker 2: be kind of inert in that always having that sort

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Speaker 2: of sense of looking forward, testing, always you know, probing,

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Speaker 2: searching for new things, being open to novelty, open to change,

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Speaker 2: but kind of anchored, anchored in the great in the

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Speaker 2: great Western tradition.

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Speaker 1: So with that, with that backdrop, post World War two,

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Speaker 1: there was somewhat of a new world order that was established,

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Speaker 1: the neoliberal world order, and it was one that was

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Speaker 1: based on free trade, that was based on both American

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Speaker 1: dominance but also kind of NATO expansionism, international cooperation, some

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Speaker 1: could call it globalism, and liberalism seemed to be an inevitability.

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Speaker 1: The famous book End of History by Francis Fukiyama is

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Speaker 1: what lateeen eighties of that mistake ninety two, okay, nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety two, where he basically said, this is it. We've

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Speaker 1: reached it. Like all the ideas that have been tried

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Speaker 1: have led us to this moment. Classical liberalism, whatever you

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Speaker 1: want to call it, liberalism is the best it's going

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Speaker 1: to get. And congratulations, humanity. History is over. What happened

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Speaker 1: from Fukiyama in nineteen ninety two to now what you

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Speaker 1: say twenty sixteen to now where you go from this

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Speaker 1: kind of hubristic prideful, you know, kind of exaltation of

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Speaker 1: liberalism to a completely different moment right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, that book The End of History by Francis

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Speaker 2: Fukuyama is it's a fascinating kind of moment of sort

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Speaker 2: of kind of hubris, you might say it kind of

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Speaker 2: misplaced optimism. But if you read the ververy end of

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Speaker 2: that book, the actual full title of the book is

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Speaker 2: The End of History and the Last Man. And he

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Speaker 2: has this fascinating kind of final chapter or two of

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Speaker 2: that book where he says, look, actually, this sort of

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Speaker 2: sense of this end of history dispensation where where everything

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Speaker 2: is we've hit the SunNet uplands of the kind of

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Speaker 2: liberal utopia and peace and prosperity for all that in

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Speaker 2: the end is not going to satisfy man's instinct. And

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Speaker 2: this is particularly this is what he calls the thumos.

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Speaker 2: This is this is if we think of Plato's like

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Speaker 2: three level three leveled soul. You've got the noose at

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Speaker 2: the top of the mind. Then you've got the thumos,

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Speaker 2: which is courage. That's just the sort of sense of

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Speaker 2: that the kind of bit the spirit that animates us.

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Speaker 2: And then you've got the epithumia, which is kind of

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Speaker 2: the base appetites, and Plato says you gonna have all

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Speaker 2: three of these in check. And what Fukuyama says is

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Speaker 2: that there's a real danger that with this kind of

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Speaker 2: the in the sun lit uplands of the kind of

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Speaker 2: globalized utopia, we're going to suppress the thumos. But that

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Speaker 2: thumos is not going anyway, it's not going away. It

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Speaker 2: will come back. And so he's very he's not he's

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Speaker 2: not quite as naive as that, And I think what's happened,

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Speaker 2: you know, that question might think of the quest for

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Speaker 2: thumos as the search for identity. In fact, Fukuyama wrote

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Speaker 2: a very interesting book on identity where he sort of

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Speaker 2: starts to conceive that the kind of sort of Berkeley

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Speaker 2: liberalism was never really going to deliver the goods. And

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Speaker 2: so I think, you know, the suppression of that sense

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Speaker 2: of sense of self, sense of rootedness, sense of home,

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Speaker 2: sense of distinctiveness and what we are and what we

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Speaker 2: love that was never going to be sort of erased

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Speaker 2: by the liberal doctrines of a book and of a

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Speaker 2: blank slate, doctrines of human nature. We're rooted, we're rooted

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Speaker 2: human beings. We're related to what's around us. We're conservative

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Speaker 2: about what we love most about what's closest to us,

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Speaker 2: and that's never going to go away. And we got

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Speaker 2: to face up to reality as it is given to

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Speaker 2: us and not as we would like it to be.

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Speaker 1: But what went wrong with the liberal project?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think the fundamental problem with the liberal project

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Speaker 2: is that it's grounded on fundamentally mistaken assumptions about what

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Speaker 2: it is to be human. The basic idea is that

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Speaker 2: human beings are born into the world with completely independent,

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Speaker 2: completely blank, completely blank slate. This is lots of view

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Speaker 2: of the table erasa or the white page, and we're

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Speaker 2: completely free of all unchosen obligations, and there can be

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Speaker 2: no obligations that we don't ourselves choose. And this is

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Speaker 2: just a complete fantasy. I don't think it's an accident

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Speaker 2: that the great liberal philosos like John Locke and Emmanuel

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Speaker 2: Kant never had any children. Anyone who's had anyone's had

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Speaker 2: a child will understand that the radical nature of dependency,

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Speaker 2: that most basic bond we're born into the world with,

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Speaker 2: that most literally with a physical bond we're attached to

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Speaker 2: as a physical bond to our to our mothers, and

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Speaker 2: so that was always going to be a problem. That

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Speaker 2: we're not blank slates. We are connected. We flourish most

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Speaker 2: when we're connected to what is closest to us. That

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Speaker 2: and it's not natural to love what is closest to us.

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Speaker 2: I was in France. I think last month up in

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Speaker 2: the mountains is beautiful shadow dressing. Some must have been

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Speaker 2: fifty or sixty. I suppose conservative right wing students from

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Speaker 2: all across I think probably you know, twenty five different nations.

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Speaker 2: And I opened. I wasn't quite sure what I was

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Speaker 2: going to say to them, that the organizers hadn't been

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Speaker 2: very clear. So I found myself beginning the session by saying,

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Speaker 2: who here has got the best mum in the world?

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Speaker 2: And every hand went up, and they looked around and

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Speaker 2: they started laughing at each other, and I said, notice

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Speaker 2: what you're not doing right now. You're not arguing with

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Speaker 2: each other. You're not discussing what are the proper optimality

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Speaker 2: criteria of being a mother. You're not there would be

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Speaker 2: a crazy, you know, inhuman thing to do. It's a

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Speaker 2: totally natural thing to think that your mum is the

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Speaker 2: best mum in the world. And then I said, who

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Speaker 2: here lives in the best country in the world. And

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Speaker 2: everybody's hands went up. And my point was, I don't

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Speaker 2: owe you an argument for why my country is the

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Speaker 2: best country in the world any more than I owe

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Speaker 2: you an argument for why my mum is the best

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Speaker 2: mum in the world. Somebody who asks for an argument

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Speaker 2: has had what the philosopher Bernard Williams calls one thought

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Speaker 2: too many. That the person who has one thought too

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Speaker 2: many is like the guy the utilitarian. He walks up

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Speaker 2: to the river and he sees two women drowning, his

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Speaker 2: wife and a strange woman, and stops to ask, what

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Speaker 2: if that strange woman might win the Nobel Prize in

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Speaker 2: Public economics? That person has had one thought too many.

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Speaker 2: It is a totally natural disposition of every human to

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Speaker 2: love what is closest to their own. Aquinas sees this.

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Speaker 2: Aristotle sees it is at the beginning one of the

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Speaker 2: greatest works of politics ever written. Book one, page one

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Speaker 2: of Aristotle's Politics, he says, how do we think about

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Speaker 2: how we get on? How do we think about the

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Speaker 2: life of the police? Politica says, well, you know, we're

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Speaker 2: born into the world and we're dependent upon each other

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Speaker 2: male female, Men and women will bond, then they will have,

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Speaker 2: then they will pro create. There'll be a family, a household,

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Speaker 2: and oycosts, but that won't be enough. That will be

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Speaker 2: enough for daily needs, but it won't be enough for

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Speaker 2: sort of you know, non date more than daily needs.

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Speaker 2: So you'll have a village and the village will come together,

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Speaker 2: but that won't be enough either. You will need to

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Speaker 2: grow into a polus for self defense and so on,

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Speaker 2: a city state as it were, a country, a nation,

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Speaker 2: and that Aristotle thinks, okay, that's for pretty small in

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Speaker 2: the fifth fourth century BC Greece. But but that was

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Speaker 2: the functioning, that was the way in which Aristotle that

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Speaker 2: was that was this kind of optimal size for human

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Speaker 2: beings to flourish too as it worked get fulfill their

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Speaker 2: their their proper ends as human beings. And I think

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Speaker 2: that's still the basic way of thinking about things. I

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Speaker 2: think it's it's really what you see in Aquitas. I

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Speaker 2: think it's what you see in the Bible as well.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that's there's so much thereat out to to think about.

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Speaker 3: We're honored to be partnering with Alan Jackson Ministries and

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Speaker 3: today I want to point you to their podcast. It's

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Speaker 3: called Culture in Christianity, the Alan Jackson Podcast. What makes

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Speaker 3: it unique is Pastor Allan's biblical perspective. He takes the

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Speaker 3: truth from the Bible and applies it to issues we're

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Speaker 3: facing today, gender confusion, abortion, immigration, Doge Trump, and the

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Speaker 3: White House issues in the church. He doesn't just discuss

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Speaker 3: the problems in every episode, he gives practical things we

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Speaker 3: can do to make a difference.

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Speaker 2: His guests have.

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Speaker 3: Incredible expertise and powerful testimonies. They've been great friends and

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Speaker 3: now you can hear from Charlie in his own words.

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Speaker 1: Each episode will make you recognize the power of your

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Speaker 1: faith and how God can use your life to impact

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Speaker 1: our world today. The Culture in Christianity podcast is informative

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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to subscribe so

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Speaker 1: you don't miss any episodes. Alan Jackson Ministries is working

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Speaker 1: hard to bring biblical truth back into our culture. You

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Speaker 1: can find out more about Pastor Allen and the ministry

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Speaker 1: at Alan Jackson Forward slash Charlie. So let's go. Let's

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Speaker 1: let's pull one of those threads, which is that all

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Speaker 1: the French young people at that chateau will raise their hand.

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Speaker 1: Who lives in the greatest nation? Why does Europe not

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Speaker 1: vote or believe that vocally in any of their politics.

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Speaker 1: Let's now center our conversation around Continental Europe, and then

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Speaker 1: we'll make our way to your home, if I may

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Speaker 1: say so. Continental Europe is a husk of its former self.

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Speaker 1: It's an open air museum. It's sad, it's depressing. There

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Speaker 1: are pockets obviously of joy and of history. But I

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Speaker 1: think you would agree, doctor, or it's not what it

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Speaker 1: used to be. How did that happen? World War Two?

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Speaker 1: The West one? Right? And now we look in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five, Europe is an unrecognizable continent in more ways

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Speaker 1: than one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's absolutely right, and we would it

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Speaker 2: would take a very, very kind of long, long conversation

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Speaker 2: to really get to the bottom of it. I mean,

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Speaker 2: one book i'd really recommend on this is actually by

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Speaker 2: an American, Christopher Caldwell, Reflections on the Revolution in Europe.

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Speaker 2: This is actually goes way back. It's two thousand and nine,

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Speaker 2: which is a long time considering what's happened in the

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Speaker 2: intervening period. But I think Caldwell really sort of it's

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Speaker 2: an incredibly prescient book, and he starts to see the

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Speaker 2: kind of the sort of conditions of the unraveling kind

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Speaker 2: of kicking in. And you're right. You know, after the

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Speaker 2: Second World War that the French had what they call

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Speaker 2: the tont Glorias, the thirty glorious years in Germany. You have,

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Speaker 2: at least in West Germany, you have the vis chap under.

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Speaker 2: You know, this economic miracle, this extraordinary explosion of economic

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Speaker 2: flourishing and national self confidence in West Germany. And I suppose,

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Speaker 2: you know, nineteen eighty nine has got to feature somehow

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Speaker 2: in the story of Europe's decline or Europe's sort of

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Speaker 2: wants that, you know, the great bugbear of the Soviet

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Speaker 2: Union and that great enemy of freedom everywhere had been dissolved.

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Speaker 2: Then I think there was a sense of, well, you know,

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Speaker 2: before that, there was a sense of what are we for?

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Speaker 2: We know what we're for. We're for freedom, and this

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Speaker 2: is something that is pretty uncomplicated, and it's going to

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Speaker 2: stitch us together as a kind of as the West.

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Speaker 2: It was easy to think about the West, and it

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Speaker 2: was easy to think about the rest. And I think

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Speaker 2: after the nineteen eighty nine into the nineteen nineties before

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Speaker 2: the Wall that the fall of the Wall in a

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Speaker 2: way sort of starts to mark the beginning of the

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Speaker 2: kind of questioning what are we about? What is our story?

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Speaker 2: What are we for? As a fascinating moment in two

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Speaker 2: thousand and four, when the European Union is trying to

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Speaker 2: work out a constitution. In the end it fails because

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Speaker 2: it can't agree on anything really, and there's a huge

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Speaker 2: debate about what goes in the preamble of the constitution.

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Speaker 2: Where how do we set out right at the beginning

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Speaker 2: of constitution we the European Union? Who are we? What

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Speaker 2: makes us we? What makes us a wei? They said, well,

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Speaker 2: our Hellenic inheritance, Greece and Rome, the classical inheritance, yes,

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Speaker 2: the Enlightenment inheritance as well. No mention of the Hybreic

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Speaker 2: or the Christian inheritance. This was seen to be something

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Speaker 2: that was, you know, low status, not something that wanted

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Speaker 2: to be admitted. John Paul the Second is right towards

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Speaker 2: the end of his life two thousand and four and

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Speaker 2: got involved in Italian politicians got involved. There's a huge

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Speaker 2: fight about it, and in the end the decision was, no,

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Speaker 2: we're not going to have any recognition of the fact

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Speaker 2: that the European Union is in any way at all

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Speaker 2: the successor to what it really was a successor to,

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Speaker 2: namely Christendom and the Holy Roman Empire, and that which

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Speaker 2: stitched Europe together as a sort of self conscious collective

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Speaker 2: entity that was gone. And I don't want to overstate

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Speaker 2: that too much, but I think that it was an indicator,

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Speaker 2: an index into the way in which the Europeans were

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Speaker 2: beginning to run out of a sense of who are we,

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Speaker 2: what are we for, where do we come from? And then,

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Speaker 2: of course, with the emergence of a kind of technocratic,

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Speaker 2: democratically unaccountable potent in parliament in Brussels and Strasbourg, the

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Speaker 2: parliament is in both places. Wait for this, for one

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Speaker 2: hundred million, one hundred million years a year, the European

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Speaker 2: Parliament moves from Brussels to Strasbourg. I think it's every

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Speaker 2: fortnight back and forth.

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Speaker 1: How long is a fortnite?

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Speaker 2: Sorry too, you didn't have fortnits over here? For it's

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Speaker 2: fourteen days, two weeks.

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Speaker 1: We do, or just trying to fortnite?

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Speaker 2: So two and it just just to think of that

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Speaker 2: they can't kind of couldn't resolve something as basic as that.

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Speaker 1: But they moved back and forth.

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Speaker 2: They moved back and forth. Yeah, just so the Belgian's hat,

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Speaker 2: you know, the kind of Franco German packed is happy.

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Speaker 2: And then the sort of you know, the idea of

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Speaker 2: there being a European union beyond the Franco German alliance.

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Speaker 2: So that's that's what you ge. That's when you go

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Speaker 2: to Brussels. So all these crazy things, crazy sort of

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Speaker 2: features of the kind of European settlement, and there's a

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Speaker 2: kind of democratic deficit, you might say. I used to

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Speaker 2: play this parlor game when I was I'm now at Cambridge.

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Speaker 2: I was at Oxford in twenty sixteen, just ahead of

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Speaker 2: the Brexit vote, and one of the parlor games I

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Speaker 2: would play with my I was the only out of

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Speaker 2: the closet Brexiteer as far as I know, in the

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Speaker 2: whole of this college among I don't know, think about

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Speaker 2: seventy eighty colleagues. And I used to ask them who's

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Speaker 2: our who's our member of the European Parliament, like which

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Speaker 2: who represents us? Who represents Oxford and the surrounding areas

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Speaker 2: in Brussels, Strasbourg, And no one could answer. No, one.

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Speaker 2: No one knew, not even the professors of politics, and

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Speaker 2: there was no reason for them to know, because it's

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Speaker 2: a fake. It was a fake. It was and is

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Speaker 2: a fake parliament with very little powers, very very little

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Speaker 2: few veto powers, very few powers of it to initiate legislation.

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Speaker 2: Nobody voted for them, nobody, nobody had any reason to

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Speaker 2: know who they were. And so that has been a

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Speaker 2: huge problem. That kind of the sort of the European

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Speaker 2: Union project has been, you know, from nineteen ninety two onwards,

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Speaker 2: where it really became a self consciously political union and

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Speaker 2: not just an economic and trade one. That's really been

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Speaker 2: it's been a disaster. And I hoped that in twenty

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Speaker 2: sixteen Brexit would be the first brick in the wall,

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Speaker 2: that it would it would catalyze a kind of domino

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Speaker 2: effect that was probably wishful thinking, becase is particularly in

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Speaker 2: the euro he're in the euro nations. You know, it's

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Speaker 2: one thing for Britain with its own pound, its own currency,

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Speaker 2: to break away, it would be much more dramatic, there'd

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Speaker 2: be much more dramatic consequences of if a euro country

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Speaker 2: split away. But the Europe has been a disaster for

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Speaker 2: the countries who have been members of it. I mean Italy,

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Speaker 2: for example, has scarcely had any GDP growth. I think

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Speaker 2: it started to pick up recently, but really, for the

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Speaker 2: first twenty years of its being part of the euro

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Speaker 2: effectively nothing at all. Greece and Spain youth unemployment was

430
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 2: through the roof effectively, you know, you've got you know,

431
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,639
Speaker 2: the Spanish currencies of Greek currency effectively being shackled to

432
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 2: the German deutsch Mark. And so the Germans weren't complaining

433
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 2: because the currencies was artificially depreciated, their exports more attractive,

434
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,119
Speaker 2: and so it was all this kind of elaborate ponzi

435
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 2: scheme which at some point is going to unravel. And

436
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 2: then somehow, you know, ideologically within the elite forming classes

437
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 2: in Oxford and Cambridge, in London, certainly in Britain, you know,

438
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,159
Speaker 2: the idea is that to be European was to be

439
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,880
Speaker 2: part of the European Union. Those two are absolutely part

440
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,679
Speaker 2: and parcel, and I never understood this. You know, you

441
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 2: can hate FIFA and love football, as I've often said,

442
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,399
Speaker 2: you know, or soccer, I should say, you can hate FIFA,

443
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 2: like the Worldwide Organization for Soccer, and you can, and

444
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 2: you can love soccer. In fact, you can hate. I

445
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,119
Speaker 2: hate FIFA because because I love football, I don't like

446
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 2: what FIFA is doing to international football. I don't like

447
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 2: the corruption. I want the game to be a richer game.

448
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 2: And I think it's the same with the European Union,

449
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 2: and it's had this sort of deadly effect on our

450
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 2: sense of what it is to be European.

451
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: What explains the hyper secularization of Europe post World War Two?

452
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 1: Why did we see such a dramatic drop off of

453
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,640
Speaker 1: church rates? Is it as simple as they saw tragedy

454
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:49,640
Speaker 1: and suffering and nihilism took the void. What because Europe

455
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 1: has had depressingly low church rates and they just keep

456
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,679
Speaker 1: on finding new lows every decade. Where what percentage of

457
00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 1: people in Europe do you think regularly attend church?

458
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 2: It varies quite a bit from country to country, but

459
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 2: it is shockingly low relative to certainly relative to the

460
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 2: United States. So you know, in Italy it's it's now very,

461
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 2: very very low. I think it's it's certainly well below

462
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 2: five percent. I mean, you know, religious adherence is just

463
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,719
Speaker 2: a very difficult thing to measure, you know, is actually

464
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:19,400
Speaker 2: going to church?

465
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 1: Does it?

466
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 2: Does it does it accounts as sort of being a

467
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 2: Christian or being being a church go you know in Britain,

468
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 2: you know what what caused it? I mean, it may

469
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 2: be the opposite, I think. I think I'm more tempted

470
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:34,360
Speaker 2: to the analysis that actually it's prosperity and flourishing, particularly

471
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 2: material flourishing and prosperity that tends to catalyze a sort

472
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 2: of collapse in the sense of any need for meaning

473
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:45,119
Speaker 2: or any any any orientation to the transcendent. And I

474
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 2: suppose also in the sixties you're seeing the emergence of

475
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 2: competing systems of meaning, competing accounts of what it is

476
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 2: to have significance, competing sets of answers to livesteep as questions.

477
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 2: We see that a lot of that important from California

478
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:06,439
Speaker 2: and elsewhere. And I suppose the sort of something, you know,

479
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 2: there's something fashionable about religious skepticism that was certainly true

480
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 2: in the sixties. If you think back, you know, to

481
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 2: the high noon of the New Atheists in two thousand

482
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,120
Speaker 2: and five, you know, there was something very, very sort

483
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 2: of elite. There was something very a lot of cachet

484
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 2: in being in being an atheist. And I'm tempted to

485
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 2: think that theists in New Atheism was just a politically

486
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 2: correct way to be skeptical of Islam. I think that

487
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 2: the timing works quite well there. But I think if

488
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 2: you look in the last few years, I mean, I

489
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 2: just saw some data out from Britain this morning. You know,

490
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 2: I think between eighteen to thirty five year olds, belief

491
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:47,360
Speaker 2: in God has tripled over the last five years. Bible

492
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 2: purchases has gone up by eighty seven percent over four years. Now.

493
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 2: It's from a pretty low low base, but something is

494
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,239
Speaker 2: happening out there. You know, it's still you know, it's

495
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 2: quite it's still quite small. But the numbers among among

496
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 2: gen z or gen z as you call them, that

497
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 2: some cam gen z well, because z is how you

498
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 2: pronounced the letter in English, and I know you Americans

499
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 2: have a different way of putting it.

500
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: But no, it's just it's interesting. So let's now, let's

501
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: now take our attention to your country, which I had

502
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: the opportunity to visit, and you hosted us wonderfully in Cambridge. Right,

503
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: great to have quite quite the ambush so not by you,

504
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: but by Cambridge. But we survived.

505
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 2: It, more than survived it.

506
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, we we I think we we triumphed, some could say,

507
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,199
Speaker 1: and you were so sweet and so kind throughout that

508
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 1: entire process. So the United Kingdom or Britain or England,

509
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 1: whatever were we want to want to give, give to

510
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: give it voted for Brexit in twenty sixteen. Where are

511
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 1: British politics today? What is the status of British politics?

512
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's it's it's a great question, you know,

513
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen, and we have this extraordinary expression of

514
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:05,880
Speaker 2: democratic will in seventeen point four to six million people

515
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 2: voting for the principle that laws affecting the United Kingdom

516
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 2: should be made in the United Kingdom and should be

517
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 2: accountable to the people and the voters of the United Kingdom.

518
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 2: It's a very just you know, because seemingly an entirely

519
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 2: uncontroversial principle. But it was the biggest vote of we've

520
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 2: had in the history in British voting history. And another

521
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 2: key driver there was the sense of we're losing our sense,

522
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 2: we're losing what it is to use the first person plural,

523
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 2: as Roger Scrutin, one of my favorite philosophers, likes to

524
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 2: put it, that sense of we, we the people, What

525
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 2: is it that makes a wei and I think what

526
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 2: was going on in Brexit was this kind of inco eight,

527
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 2: kind of cry that we are losing that sense of

528
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 2: who we are. That every time, for the last forty

529
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 2: to fifty years, every time the British people have had

530
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 2: an opportunity to express a view on mass demographic change

531
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 2: and transition, it is said no or go much slower,

532
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 2: And every time its leaders have effectively ignored those that

533
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 2: clearly expressed will. And I think twenty sixteen was a

534
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 2: moment where suddenly it looked as if we might have

535
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 2: the opportunity to finally regain control of our laws and

536
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 2: regain control of our borders. At the same time, what

537
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 2: actually happened in the last five years. One in what

538
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 2: have we had is one in twenty seven people in

539
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 2: Britain have arrived in the last five years. One in

540
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 2: sixty arrived in the last eighteen months in the first

541
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 2: twenty five years of this century, gross migration, gross immigration

542
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 2: talking twelve to fifteen million people. That's roughly four to

543
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 2: five times as many people who arrived on our shores

544
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 2: in the first thousand years of our history. It's difficult

545
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 2: to overstate. And I know you've had you know, You've

546
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 2: had enormous influxes too under the Biden administration, but you're

547
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 2: a much bigger You've got a much bigger territory, and

548
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 2: you've got a different kinds of different kind of categories

549
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 2: of migrants coming in, and you've at last got an

550
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 2: administration that's willing to do something about it.

551
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: But this praise God for that.

552
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 2: And indeed and that has had but that has had

553
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 2: a profoundly kind of traumatic shock on us sprits, and

554
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 2: it's had a kind of tectonic effect on the landscape

555
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 2: of British politics. So what's happening in British politics? Well,

556
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 2: quick update. Last year July twenty twenty four, we saw

557
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 2: the Loveless Landslide. So we see the Starmer government getting

558
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 2: an astonishing one hundred and seventy five odd seats of

559
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 2: majority in Parliament, which is an enormous, enormous majority and

560
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 2: one of the biggest in living memory, on only twenty

561
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 2: percent of the vote twenty percent of the people eligible

562
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 2: to vote, something like thirty four percent of the vote share.

563
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 2: It was you know, the sofa one, I mean the

564
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 2: couch won that election. It was a very low, very

565
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 2: low turnout. Nobody it was an apathetic election. Nobody seemed

566
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 2: to care. Fast forward now, you know, we were just

567
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 2: over a year in. Back in the first of May

568
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 2: of this year, we had the local elections whe which

569
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 2: are a pretty good proxy. It's a bit like the

570
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 2: midterms and not a bad proxy for what the country's

571
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 2: mood in is. And I think you know, Labor gets

572
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 2: goes from thirty four percent to twenty percent, The Conservative

573
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 2: Party goes down to fifteen percent, extinction level, almost an

574
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 2: unprecedented low. And for the first time in one hundred years,

575
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 2: a new party emerges, a third party to rival the

576
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 2: duopoly that's had britten in its grip since nineteen twenty

577
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty three, and that is Nigel Farage's Reform UK,

578
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 2: which surged through to win six hundred seventy seven local seats,

579
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 2: which if you extrapolate that out, is thirty percent of

580
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 2: the electorate. That's an They were at fourteen percent a

581
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 2: year ago. And that's going up and up and up.

582
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 2: And what you're seeing for the first time in the

583
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 2: history of British politics since there have been political parties,

584
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 2: let's say the Tories are emerging like the sixteen seventies,

585
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 2: sixteen eighties and really kind of bedding down in their

586
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 2: modern form in the eighteen thirties. For the first time

587
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 2: in the history of British politics, there is another right

588
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 2: wing party emerging, another Conservative Party. That is. It looks

589
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 2: as if, in my view, we'll have to see what

590
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 2: happens next May with some more proxy elections, then there'll

591
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 2: be a general election in twenty twenty nine. The last

592
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 2: point that Kirstarma can call it. But my sense is

593
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 2: that Nigel Farage is on track to be the next

594
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 2: Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.

595
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: That deserves some applause. So let's examine that deeper and

596
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: more thoroughly. Some people in the audience will hear the

597
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: Conservative Party, don't we like them? Explain what a concert

598
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: what it means to be part of the Conservative Party.

599
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: That's not exactly you know, Let's say the equivalent that

600
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 1: we would have here in the United States of what

601
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: we consider to be a conservative.

602
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 2: Yes, that's right, I mean, but even here, I suppose

603
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 2: in the States there are lots and lots of fascinating

604
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 2: debates within the GOP, within the Republican Party. Is to you,

605
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 2: what is it to be a conservative? You know, is

606
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 2: it to be Reagan night. Is it to be a fusionist,

607
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 2: is it to be a Trumpist, Is it to be

608
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 2: a kind of compassionate bush Eite conservative, whatever it might be. So,

609
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 2: I mean, and you know, to some extent we mirror

610
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 2: some of those those debates, those debates about freedom, economic freedom,

611
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 2: How to rank that in the order of what it

612
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 2: is we want to conserve. But roughly speaking, you know,

613
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 2: the Conservative Party was in power from twenty ten to

614
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, and you know, all all of the

615
00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 2: good things that it delivered, it delivered by accident.

616
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 1: You know.

617
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 2: It granted the referendum on Brexit in twenty fifteen, not expected.

618
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 2: In its manifesto, it didn't expect to win in twenty fifteen.

619
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 2: It thought there would be another coalition, that the referendum

620
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 2: would be scrapped by their coalition partners. But they won,

621
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 2: almost unexpected, not expecting to. They granted reluctantly the referendum,

622
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 2: They campaigned against Brexit, that that was the official government position.

623
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 2: Then they lost. The government fell. A new government came in,

624
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 2: headed up incredibly by Theresa May, a prime minister who

625
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 2: voted against Brexit. A prime minister dude voted against Brexit.

626
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 2: Was tasked by sort of the internal party political dynamics

627
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 2: of the Conservative Party to deliver Brexit, and sure enough

628
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 2: it was a complete catastrophe. That's when I cut up

629
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 2: my membership card, you know, to be Conservative in twenty sixteen,

630
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen. Was was quite straightforward. It's just you've got

631
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 2: one job. Seventeen point four million Brits have asked us

632
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 2: to do this one thing and right now all that

633
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 2: we want you to do, and they couldn't do it. It

634
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 2: couldn't do it, couldn't do it. Finally, that May government

635
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 2: falls in twenty that summer of twenty nineteen, after a

636
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 2: spectacular defeat at the European elections. Those European elections are

637
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 2: good for something, it turns out, because in the space

638
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 2: of six weeks Nigel Farage sets up the Brexit Party

639
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 2: and goes from zero to winning a national election in

640
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 2: the United Kingdom that has never inconceivable, quite just unthinkable,

641
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 2: And that's spelt the end of the May Party and

642
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 2: Boris Johnson takes over and finally managed to get Brexit

643
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 2: over the line. Then the plague strikes and COVID and

644
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 2: lockdown and so on and so forth, spending goes through

645
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 2: the roof, and you know, we've got very very serious

646
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 2: economic economic problems headaches to it to worry about. So

647
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 2: being conservative has been it's been very very hard to

648
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 2: kind of keep a track on what it means to

649
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 2: be conservative. I suppose for Brits, the British Conservative Party

650
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 2: is just to be conservative, is just to be a pragmatist,

651
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,760
Speaker 2: just to be pragmatic. But as you know, I remember

652
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 2: harry On because he passed through a mutual friend of

653
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 2: mine and Charlie's came through. He said that the trouble

654
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:11,280
Speaker 2: with pragmatism, James is it doesn't work. And it's true.

655
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 2: You know, you got it, you can't.

656
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 1: G K.

657
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 2: Hsson says, you know, the pragmatist's chief end is to

658
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 2: be something more than a pragmatist. If all your prizing

659
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 2: is efficiency, then it doesn't. Then what is efficiency? Efficiency

660
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:25,720
Speaker 2: towards what It's got.

661
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 1: To be aim. You have to aim your destination.

662
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 2: She's got to have a tellos, you've got to have

663
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 2: a horizon. And I think for years and years and years,

664
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 2: the Conservatives horizon was just to win. We just need

665
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:35,839
Speaker 2: to win, and they were very good at winning. They're

666
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 2: the most successful.

667
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 1: Elect sound like a Republican party that we know of.

668
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 2: But I and the Conservative British Conservative Party is the

669
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 2: most success successful election winning machine in the history of

670
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 2: politics anywhere in the world. But you know, I think

671
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:50,879
Speaker 2: that is that may now be coming to an end.

672
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,320
Speaker 4: This is Lane Schoenberger, chief investment Officer and founding partner

673
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 4: of y Refi. It has been an honor and a

674
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 4: privilege to partner with Turning Point and for Charlie to

675
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 4: endorse us. His endorsement means the world to us and

676
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 4: we look forward to continuing our partnership with Turning Point

677
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 4: for years to come. Now Here, Charlie, in his own words,

678
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 4: tell you about why Refi.

679
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you guys about why refight dot com.

680
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 1: That is why are e f y dot com. Y

681
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 1: refi is incredible private student loan debt in America told

682
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: us about three hundred billion dollars. Y refy is refinancing

683
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Speaker 1: distress or defaulted private student loans. You can finally take

684
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Speaker 1: control of your student loan situation with a plan that

685
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Speaker 1: works for your monthly budget. Go to yrefight dot com.

686
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: That is why refight dot com. Do you have a

687
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: co borrower why reef I can get them released from

688
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 1: the loan. You can skip a payment up to twelve

689
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: times without penalty. It may not be available at all

690
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: fifty states. Go to yrefight dot com. That is why

691
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,839
Speaker 1: are e f y dot com. Let's face it, if

692
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:47,879
Speaker 1: you have distress or default the student loans, it can

693
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: be overwhelming because of privacuit loan debt, so many people

694
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: feel stuck. Go to y refight dot com. That is

695
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: y R e f y dot com private student loan

696
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: debt relief yrefight dot com. So so then so that

697
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: defines the Conservative Party Reform, which is Nigel Faraja's party

698
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 1: is growing. How and you've mentioned this, how does mass immigration,

699
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 1: specifically mass Islamic immigration playing into how people are thinking

700
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 1: about this election and the United Kingdom?

701
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's a great question. I mean, you know,

702
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,839
Speaker 2: it's very hard to know. With so many people coming in,

703
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 2: it's very hard to know, like who they are, what

704
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 2: do they believe, what do they what do they think?

705
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 2: Let alone working out strategies of integration or or assimilation.

706
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 2: So what's happening now? I mean, so we've got illegal immigration,

707
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 2: so roughly you know, tens of that. I would say

708
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 2: tens of thousands of people coming onto the to the

709
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 2: Calais beaches and paying people traffickers three four thousand euros

710
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 2: a pop to take the pretty dangerous journey to in

711
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 2: Dinghies across the across the channel. And so there's an

712
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 2: Now that those numbers are tiny relative to the levels

713
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 2: of legal migration, which are huge, but somehow it concentrates

714
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 2: the concentrates the mind, this fact that you know, these

715
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 2: people are coming over. We don't know nothing about them.

716
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 2: Most of them are young men of fighting age, very

717
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 2: few women, very few children. Very hard to believe that

718
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 2: they are actually refugees fleeing persecution and warfare. I mean,

719
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 2: France is not a great country right now. You know,

720
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 2: you might not like it very much, but you know,

721
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 2: is it in the grip of civil war and widespread

722
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 2: urban conflict. I mean, yeah, only in August really and

723
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 2: you know, actually Calle is a pretty nice, pretty nice

724
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 2: place to be. But that's but that's what's going on.

725
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 2: And so the government doesn't know what to do with

726
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 2: these people. The Tories didn't know what to do with them,

727
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:47,879
Speaker 2: The Labor Party didn't know what to do with them.

728
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 2: We are we are wedded and kind of enmeshed in

729
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 2: all of these complex webs of international obligations, treaty obligations.

730
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 2: There's a foreign court in Strasbourg that has jurisdiction over

731
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:01,359
Speaker 2: we can and can't admit, Well.

732
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: It wasn't Brexit supposed to fix there.

733
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 2: Well, it is something that is worth clarifying here. So

734
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 2: there are two courts. There's two European courts. It's European

735
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 2: Court of Justice in Luxembourg and then there's the European

736
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 2: Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg. And we did not

737
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 2: leave the European Court of Human Rights. That is a

738
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 2: separate jurisdiction which emerges after the Nuremberg trials in the

739
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 2: late nineteen forties, where there was a sense that in

740
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 2: order to kind of ensure that this could never happen again,

741
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 2: that the Nazi war criminals were never able to say

742
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 2: what laws did we break? And actually it was very hard,

743
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 2: you know, the Allied prosecutors found it very difficult to argue. Jackson,

744
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 2: the US prosecutor, and David Maxwell fIF found it very

745
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 2: difficult to say, well, you know, it's not clear what

746
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 2: laws you have broken. I mean, technically it's not clear

747
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 2: that the Holocaust, for example, was against the law. The

748
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 2: Nazis were scrupulous legislators, so there was this sense we

749
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 2: have to have this convention we had in order to

750
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,399
Speaker 2: ensure that this never happens again. And that's different from

751
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,959
Speaker 2: the European un The European uion doesn't come along till later.

752
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 2: And we still remain under the jurisdiction of the Strasbourg Court.

753
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 2: And for as long as we are under that that

754
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 2: it's jurisdiction, we effectively, you know, our courts are required,

755
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 2: you know, to effectively grant the recision of deportation orders

756
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 2: by the British government on the grounds that deportation to

757
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 2: the on Orangin country would breach the deportees human rights.

758
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 2: I mean, so you're getting you know, I had a

759
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 2: story that is happening last week of of people of

760
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 2: people facing deportation going to their embassies, protesting outside the embassies,

761
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 2: claiming that they would have caught the eye of officials

762
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 2: within the embassy, and then claiming that it would be

763
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 2: too dangerous for them to go back. They'd be likely

764
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 2: to be political prisoners or they like to believe to

765
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 2: be victims of political persecution. Is quite extraordinary. You have,

766
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,399
Speaker 2: you know, people joining terrorist organizations because that will mean

767
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 2: that they're going to be political, you know, persecuted politically

768
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 2: when they go back to their owge in countries or

769
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 2: Article Article eight right to a family life, which is

770
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 2: incredibly open basket human right. You can say, no, I

771
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 2: just I just feel I'm going to be you know,

772
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,320
Speaker 2: I'm gay, and and and Syria is not going to

773
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 2: like that. Okay, fine, you're you're not You're not going

774
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 2: back and you're not gonna You're not gonna win that.

775
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 2: You're not gonna win that. The government is not. No

776
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 2: government's going to win that case against the human rights

777
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 2: legal industrial complex because Britain very much, you know, is

778
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 2: it's no longer the rule of law, it's the rule

779
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:32,760
Speaker 2: of lawyers.

780
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: The is Nigel thinking about ending that jurisdiction and what

781
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 1: is he running on in regards to immigration.

782
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 2: So one of the key questions is do we get

783
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 2: out of this court? How do we get out of

784
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 2: the court. You know, my view, if you want to

785
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 2: really get Brexit done, you just this is you have

786
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 2: to finish the job. You have to. We have to

787
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 2: remove ourselves from the jurisdiction of the Strasburg Court. That

788
00:41:54,760 --> 00:42:00,240
Speaker 2: means rescinding Tony Blair's nineteen ninety eight Human Rights Act,

789
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 2: but the political appetite to repeal a human rights act

790
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 2: and effectively this sort of new constitution of kind of

791
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 2: rights based regime, very kind of continental in spirit, very

792
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,800
Speaker 2: different from the common law approach that England has always

793
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 2: has always had.

794
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 1: Contrast that can you build into that for a second,

795
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 1: I don't want to just buy that.

796
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 2: Let's just think about this. So there's very too, there's

797
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 2: a very different you might say, there's the kind of

798
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 2: the jurisprudence of the English speaking peoples, the kind of

799
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 2: a common law, the idea that we we discern the

800
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 2: principles of justice, of natural justice from the bottom up

801
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 2: on a case by case basis, and we work it

802
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:39,240
Speaker 2: out through concrete quarrels between particular neighbors, between contractual disputes,

803
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 2: or in the case of the criminal law. The European model,

804
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 2: this is a little bit crude, but broadly, I think

805
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 2: broadly kind of plausible. The European model is just to

806
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 2: kind of imagine what you know, to come up with codes,

807
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 2: abstract codes that are going to just apply universally no

808
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 2: matter what, but are basically agnostic and kind of not

809
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 2: attentive to the concrete particularities of human and interrelations. And

810
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 2: so you know that one of the great sort of

811
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 2: guests of the English speaking peoples is is this idea

812
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 2: of a kind of bottom up common law approach. We

813
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 2: see this in We see this in Blackstone, we see

814
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:13,359
Speaker 2: it in cook we see it in all the great

815
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 2: jurists that we, the English speaker speaking peoples have inherited.

816
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 2: Whereas the European idea is to think in these sort

817
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 2: of rights based ways, which has been kind of a

818
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 2: metaphor drawn from kind of the world of property. So,

819
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 2: I mean, one way of thinking about this is, you know,

820
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 2: we have an Offenses against the Person Act eighteen sixty one,

821
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 2: and we have were these words, these lovely earthy saxon

822
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:44,760
Speaker 2: words like murder and manslaughter, grievous bodily harm, actual bodily harm.

823
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 2: And I sometimes joke with my students, you know, which

824
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 2: do you think is the more kind of morally accurate way.

825
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 2: What's the kind of right moral grammar in these two

826
00:43:53,200 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 2: scenarios is Peter murdered Lucy or Peter breached lucy right

827
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 2: to life? And I think you know the kind of

828
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 2: the common law bottom up way of thinking is just

829
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 2: what is more accurate that he murdered her, or maybe

830
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 2: it was manslaughter of diminished responsibility, whatever it might be.

831
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 2: Whereas a rights based view is a much more kind

832
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 2: of artificial liberal, kind of construct of this sort of

833
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 2: floating ethereal blank slate with all these kind of strings

834
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 2: and these different rights coming off it, and it's very difficult,

835
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 2: it turns out to reconcile all these different rights.

836
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 1: It's intentionally confusing, exactly right, exactly, it's a feature, not

837
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: a bove.

838
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 2: It has turned out to be a feature, not a bug.

839
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 2: And part of the you know, part of what is

840
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,320
Speaker 2: what they're attempting in the rights based regime is to say, well,

841
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 2: if we all signed up to one common shared view

842
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:51,359
Speaker 2: of what is right, capital are singular right, then secularism

843
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 2: can't work, because the point of secularism is to try

844
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 2: and create this slightly fake, neutral public square where everybody's

845
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,879
Speaker 2: allowed to kind of dis agree about the fundamental question.

846
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:03,440
Speaker 2: So they do, we don't have any more wars of

847
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 2: religion like this is the basic idea of kind Treaty

848
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 2: of West Balia sixteen forty eight. And so we've got

849
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 2: to be agnostic about the underlying capital are right, because

850
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 2: if we're not agnostic about it, then we'll start killing

851
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 2: each other. It'll be a kind of you know, Hobbes

852
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 2: and war of war against all. So what we say

853
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 2: is everybody, every individual has a right to determine what

854
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:26,280
Speaker 2: is right. And then it becomes impossible for any judicial

855
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,400
Speaker 2: process of discerning what is absolutely because what is it?

856
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 2: What is a judicial What is a judge supposed to

857
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 2: do to discern the right to discern objective natural justice?

858
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 2: And it's impossible to do that when you've got these competing, conflicting,

859
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:40,840
Speaker 2: conflicting claims, conflicting demands.

860
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 1: So that's so helpful. The question that a lot of

861
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:52,359
Speaker 1: people have is why is Europe continually importing people that

862
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: not only wish them harm but will replace core European

863
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: identity and culture? What get either metaphysical? If you have

864
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 1: to hear it is confusing to me and to the audience.

865
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 1: Why what is it? I mean, Paris, Brussels, London, these

866
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:15,240
Speaker 1: are unrecognizable cities and it's being done voluntarily. Why who's

867
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 1: once who's voting for this? What is their argument?

868
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 2: So increasingly they're not voting for it, So we are

869
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 2: seeing that this is this the key driver for populist

870
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,800
Speaker 2: movements all across continental Europe and now in Britain. I

871
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 2: think is a sort of is an kind of emerging

872
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 2: resistance to all of this. But it is taking a

873
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:32,759
Speaker 2: long time. And it's a good question. Why has it

874
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 2: taken so long? Yes, you know, I think the first,

875
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 2: you know, shooting from the hip, the first answer might

876
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 2: be guilt, a sense of kind of post colonial a

877
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 2: post colonial need for atonement. And you see this in France.

878
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 2: It's it's, it's it's present in Britain. There's a sense

879
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 2: that we wrong the world. You know, we invaded the world.

880
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 2: Now we need to invite the world. That that's that's

881
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 2: the kind of that's the idea, and you see this.

882
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:58,760
Speaker 2: You know, there's even this sort of guilt dynamics with Germany,

883
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 2: even though Germany were useless imperialists. I mean, they were

884
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 2: absolute terrible. I think they had a Namibia, but they

885
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 2: were that you know, maybe the problem of the twentieth centuries.

886
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 2: They feel they missed.

887
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: Alibia is actually a great country and it went an

888
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: underrated city.

889
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 2: Now it is, but you know, it didn't actually have

890
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 2: much of it didn't have it. They felt they lost

891
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:17,240
Speaker 2: out on the nineteenth They were terrible straggle for Africa.

892
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 2: So twentieth century, now it's our turn in our own backyard.

893
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 2: I didn't know the speculative, but I remember in twenty

894
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 2: fifteen after Merkel announced, you have opened up the gates,

895
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:31,720
Speaker 2: vishaffend us, we can do this, and she was making

896
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 2: policy that's a part one of the most consequential policies

897
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,840
Speaker 2: in the history, in the history of Europe, and in

898
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 2: living memory. It's it's almost done in real time on

899
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 2: a TV program where a I think it's a young

900
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 2: Palestinian or Syrian child sort of emotes or it gives it,

901
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 2: you know, begs begs her to begs her to help,

902
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 2: and you can she's almost changing her mind in real time.

903
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 2: Twenty fifteen, she opens up the gates of Europe. Effectually

904
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 2: she says to yeah, the German borders are open, which

905
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 2: of course means Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece. And suddenly you

906
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 2: have this domino effect and you know, tens of thousands

907
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 2: coming across in dignies, a thousands dying, thousands drowning from

908
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 2: from these very risky voyages voyages, and so the trains

909
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 2: would be rolling into Munich and there would be big

910
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 2: signs in German saying simply atonement, atonement eight, you know,

911
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 2: eighty years on, seventy seventy years on, this is how

912
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,919
Speaker 2: we atone for our sins. And I think so there's

913
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 2: a kind of there's a specific German version of that,

914
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 2: there's a British version of that, there's a French version

915
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 2: of that that explains those first waves. So that'd be

916
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 2: the first answer.

917
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 1: And can I just interject before My view is that

918
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 1: when you don't have Christianity, you don't know how to

919
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 1: deal with guilt, and so you come up with these

920
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 1: strange counterfeit ways. Because in Christianity, we go to the Cross,

921
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: we go to Jesus. In secularism, you invite a bunch

922
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 1: of Muslims.

923
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 2: I think that's a very sobtle point. I mean, so

924
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 2: I don't know if you it's it's not as simple

925
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 2: as inviting a bunch of that. That's not what they're

926
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 2: consciously thinking. No, it's but it's what it's. But yeah,

927
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 2: it's it's a kind of atonement for we're we're kind

928
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 2: of atoning by finding new victims and finding victims that

929
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 2: instead of we're kind of inflicting, inflicting suffering on them.

930
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 2: Now we can sort of somehow we can over time

931
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 2: we can sort of brick we can we can a

932
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 2: tourne we can see kind of kind of secular redemption.

933
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 1: But you're a second one that I interrupted you.

934
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,359
Speaker 2: So no, no, thank you, so very very very stute point,

935
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 2: thank you, Charlie. That second point is it's just the

936
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,720
Speaker 2: ror economics. So the idea is, you know, the dogma

937
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 2: and the Treasury, the finance Department in Britain is, you know,

938
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 2: we've got to just keep the Ponzi scheme going. We've

939
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 2: got to just keep the GDP you know line, the

940
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 2: line has to keep going up. The pie has to

941
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 2: keep getting bigger, even if it means that the slices

942
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 2: of the pie keep getting smaller. And this is a

943
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 2: dogma in finance ministries all across Europe. So it's just this,

944
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 2: it's just this Ponzi scheme were we're not having kids,

945
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 2: we're aborting hundreds of thousands of them. And there's a

946
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 2: demographic collapse all kinds of it's a demographic collapse or

947
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,399
Speaker 2: winter all across Europe. Already it's already here, it's here

948
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 2: in Britain. It's it's it's certainly happening in Britain. And

949
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:15,439
Speaker 2: so the dependency ratio of taxpayers to dependence, whether it's

950
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 2: the out of work, which is which is which is,

951
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:21,920
Speaker 2: which is very high, it's I think it's nine million.

952
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 2: In Britain. I basically have twenty seven million taxpayers, nine

953
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:28,360
Speaker 2: million out of work, six million public sector workers, thirteen

954
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 2: million pensioners. So that ratio, and that ratio is going

955
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 2: to get a lot worse.

956
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 1: Pensioners are retirees.

957
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 2: Sorry, that's right, pensions are retirees. And so that and

958
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 2: those sort of dependency ratios of taxpayers to non taxpayers

959
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:42,879
Speaker 2: is going to get worse and worse and worse. So

960
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 2: the idea is if we can just you know, we

961
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 2: we can kind of import people who can contribute somewhat

962
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:51,359
Speaker 2: to our national economy. In fact, it turns out their

963
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:54,839
Speaker 2: net drains on our national economy. But that's been one

964
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 2: of the myths. I think. The other myth is to

965
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 2: go back to liberalism to the third answer would be

966
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 2: this kind of the liberal of the blank slate. And

967
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 2: the way I've the way I was thinking about this

968
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 2: the other day is in the context of the transgenderism debate,

969
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:09,360
Speaker 2: and the view seems to be in it. It's the

970
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 2: similar kind of metaphysical myth that that has kind of

971
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 2: bewitched the liberal mind as with transgenderism. So, you know,

972
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:19,560
Speaker 2: with transgenderism, you know, the problem is, Look, if anyone

973
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:25,840
Speaker 2: can become a woman, what is a woman? What is

974
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 2: it to be a woman? If subjective self declaration of

975
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:33,319
Speaker 2: any human being is we've lost our definitional distinctions. And

976
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 2: I think that's the same problem with what we might

977
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 2: call transnationalism. If anyone can become an Englishman, what is

978
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:43,320
Speaker 2: an Englishman? If anyone can become an American, what is

979
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 2: an American? We've got this such sort of definitional vagueness

980
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 2: that we sort of it becomes impossible to go back

981
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:54,840
Speaker 2: to that phrase, ever, to use the first person plural,

982
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 2: ever to be able to say we the people. We're

983
00:51:57,239 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 2: not an idea, We're not a proposition, we're not a project.

984
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 2: We're a people with a home, with a history, with

985
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 2: a heritage. And that doesn't mean that we can't welcome

986
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:07,880
Speaker 2: people in. I mean that the model I have for

987
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 2: this is the Book of Ruth and that very short

988
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:13,399
Speaker 2: short book in the Old Testament, and that's I think

989
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 2: a perfect model. You know, what does Ruth do? She's

990
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:19,879
Speaker 2: a Moabite, she's not an Israelite. But what does she do?

991
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 2: Her husband dies, she says, to where you go, I

992
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:30,400
Speaker 2: will go where you lodge, I will lodge boas your

993
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 2: people will be my people, and your God will be

994
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:38,720
Speaker 2: my God. And she's she shows humility, she integrates herself,

995
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 2: she works the fields, she's loyal and the and the

996
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 2: interesting thing I noticed this, even to the end of

997
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 2: the book, she doesn't become Ruth the Israelite. She's still

998
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:54,839
Speaker 2: so her identity is still there. So she's incorporated into

999
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 2: the people of Israel, but she's still a Moabite, a

1000
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 2: moabit test And we just have we we can't even

1001
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 2: have that conversation. We're not even you know, we have

1002
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 2: no idea. What did it know? You're not allowed to

1003
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:07,799
Speaker 2: say what is it to be in Israel? You're not

1004
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:10,320
Speaker 2: allowed to say what is it to be an Englishman?

1005
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 2: You know, there's somebody the other day who just said,

1006
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 2: you know, the concept of englishness and English identity is evil.

1007
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 2: One of Tony Ble's speechwriters, John Rentol's, he deleted the tweet,

1008
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 2: but that's interesting. There's been a vibe shift a year ago,

1009
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 2: he wouldn't have deleted it. But so things are changing fast.

1010
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 2: But there is this strange myth that sort of bewitches us,

1011
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 2: that that that there's nothing that there is to be

1012
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 2: to be British, to be English, to be Welsh, to

1013
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 2: be Scottish. You can just you know, pass through the

1014
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 2: gates of the hethrow, get your piece of paper, and

1015
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 2: this magic dust will descend upon you and infuse all

1016
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:48,799
Speaker 2: of Shakespeare and a Saucer, and that kind of will

1017
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 2: ensure that your pulse quickens when you see a spitfire

1018
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 2: in the sky, you know. And it turns out that

1019
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 2: magic dust isn't doesn't work.

1020
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:02,840
Speaker 1: National identity is more than paperwork. It's more than just

1021
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 1: having documentation. And I look at mom, Dannie. Okay, yeah,

1022
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 1: he's got his paperwork. Like, guy's not an American. He's

1023
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:12,319
Speaker 1: just not nothing about him as American. I'm sure he's

1024
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:13,839
Speaker 1: got his paper I'm not doubting it. Like I'm sure

1025
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 1: he's got all of his documents, but nothing he says

1026
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 1: or believes is anything close to what it means to

1027
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 1: be an American. Period's at odds. Actually, well, this is

1028
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 1: an Islamist Marxist.

1029
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:28,200
Speaker 2: This takes us quite nicely onto onto Islam, because you know,

1030
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 2: one of the challenges that Islam has always had is

1031
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:36,240
Speaker 2: to incorporate into itself, into its political theology, the concept

1032
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 2: of the nation state, MM, the concept certainly the concept

1033
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:42,839
Speaker 2: of the secular public square. Of course, it's it's incomprehension

1034
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 2: or the or the distinction between the secular and the sacred.

1035
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:48,319
Speaker 2: This is not something that is that comes naturally a

1036
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 2: tool to Islamic theology. And actually you can understand in

1037
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 2: many ways, I think Islamic political theology is more consistent,

1038
00:54:55,440 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 2: more predictable, and more kind of comprehensible than Christian political theology. Know,

1039
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 2: when Augustine comes along and says, well, yes, you know,

1040
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 2: God is in charge of everything, but there are some

1041
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 2: parts where he's just gonna let us be neutral, and

1042
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 2: he's going to let these earthly authorities take control. And

1043
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:18,239
Speaker 2: the Church has the worries about the eternal, and the

1044
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:21,760
Speaker 2: earthly authorities worry about the earth, the kind of the temporal,

1045
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 2: and that's the kind of the beginning of the seculum.

1046
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 2: The idea of the secular starts to emerge with Augustin.

1047
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:28,600
Speaker 2: It's not meant to be a kind of godless zone.

1048
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:31,359
Speaker 2: But that's really effectively what it what it becomes after

1049
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 2: after the eighteenth century. And you know, for Islam, if

1050
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 2: you're if you're a monotheist, that's a very strange idea.

1051
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:41,360
Speaker 2: Why should there be any corner of creation that is

1052
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 2: somehow even kind of provisionally neutral and godless. Islam can't

1053
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 2: cope with this thought, and it's monotheism. It's particularly it's

1054
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 2: very very aggressive and strong commitment to to to tawied,

1055
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:58,840
Speaker 2: to to the doctrine of wonderers and the power, to

1056
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:01,680
Speaker 2: the power of God makes it very hard for this

1057
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 2: kind of Augustinian idea to emerge. And so the nation

1058
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 2: state is fundamentally a kind of secular construct. Now it's

1059
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 2: one that Christianity has been able to baptize, right, so

1060
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 2: I would just come back from from Hungary. I mean,

1061
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 2: they are very self consciously a Christian nation founded by

1062
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 2: Saint Stephen, and there's crosses everywhere. It's in their constitution.

1063
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:25,359
Speaker 2: That's not a problem. England, England is you know, oar

1064
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:28,760
Speaker 2: monarch is also the Supreme Governor of the Church of England.

1065
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 2: We are technically, you know constitution. If any of you

1066
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 2: watch the coronation or the funeral of her late majesty.

1067
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 2: You know that is you know, the ceremonial kind of

1068
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:39,960
Speaker 2: pedigree is a Christian one. But within Islam, it's it's

1069
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 2: it's much harder for Islam to form it. It's much

1070
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 2: harder to convince a loyal Muslim to have a political

1071
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 2: loyalty to a nation rather than the uma, rather the covering,

1072
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 2: rather than the Islam. And so Islam is a much

1073
00:56:56,680 --> 00:57:04,839
Speaker 2: more a much more cosmopolitan and rootless universal identity, and

1074
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:07,320
Speaker 2: it finds it very difficult to work with the particular

1075
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 2: and with with kind of sort of secular national boundaries.

1076
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 2: I mean, one start just to close the loop on

1077
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 2: the right. For example, you know, there are six roughly

1078
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 2: six percent of Muslims in Britain, zero zero point five

1079
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 2: percent of them are are in the armed force. Are

1080
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:28,760
Speaker 2: in the armed forces so much that there were more

1081
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:32,080
Speaker 2: British Muslims who went to fight for Isis than there

1082
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:34,000
Speaker 2: are in the British arm Force.

1083
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 1: I'm surprised that only six percent, because I go to London,

1084
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 1: it feels like a lot more than six percent. Well

1085
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 1: that's because they're.

1086
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:40,680
Speaker 2: Very concentrated and they're very dense. So had we had

1087
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 2: a successful strategy of assimilation integration. If such a that's

1088
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 2: a point, then there might have been a much a

1089
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 2: much more diffuse diaspora. But but that's not how it works.

1090
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:54,360
Speaker 2: And you get these certain tipping points where effectively, you know,

1091
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 2: kind of effectively chain migration that creates these demographic silos,

1092
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 2: and that that increases that effectively means integration becomes impossible.

1093
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:05,640
Speaker 2: What is it to integrate into the city of Birmingham today?

1094
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 2: What is it to integrate into the city of Bradford?

1095
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 1: You have nothing to integrate to it to become a Muslim?

1096
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 1: That's right?

1097
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 2: The majority population, majority population in Luton or not? Is

1098
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 2: it coming close to or is he even there?

1099
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:19,920
Speaker 1: Muhammad is the number one birth name in the biggest

1100
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 1: cities al across.

1101
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:22,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that, you know, that's indicative. It's

1102
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 2: a little bit complicated that that that stat because Muhammad

1103
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:29,240
Speaker 2: is way more common just as a first name among say,

1104
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:32,120
Speaker 2: you know, from one hundred Muslims, you're gonna have way more,

1105
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 2: way more Mohammads, whereas your first name is a much

1106
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 2: more evenly, more more evenly distributed in the West, I think,

1107
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 2: but it's still it's it's it's it is an index

1108
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 2: of swords.

1109
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're honored to be partnering with Alan Jackson Ministries

1110
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 3: and today I want to point you to their podcast.

1111
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 3: It's called Culture in Christianity, the Alan Jackson Podcast. What

1112
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 3: makes it unique is Pastor Allan's biblical perspective. He takes

1113
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:01,120
Speaker 3: the truth from the Bible in a play issues we're

1114
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:05,160
Speaker 3: facing today, gender confusion, abortion, immigration, Doge Trump, and the

1115
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:08,000
Speaker 3: White House issues in the church. He doesn't just discuss

1116
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:10,840
Speaker 3: the problems in every episode, he gives practical things we

1117
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 3: can do to make a difference. His guests have incredible

1118
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:17,360
Speaker 3: expertise and powerful testimonies. They've been great friends and now

1119
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 3: you can hear from Charlie and his own words.

1120
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:21,400
Speaker 1: Each episode will make you recognize the power of your

1121
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 1: faith and how God can use your life to impact

1122
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:27,920
Speaker 1: our world today. The Culture and Christianity podcast is informative

1123
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:30,800
Speaker 1: and encouraging. You could find it on YouTube, Spotify, or

1124
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:33,560
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to subscribe so

1125
00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 1: you don't miss any episodes. Alan Jackson Ministries is working

1126
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 1: hard to bring Biblical truth back into our culture. You

1127
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 1: can find out more about Pastor Allen and the ministry

1128
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:49,600
Speaker 1: at Alan Jackson dot com forward slash Charlie. So let's

1129
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 1: build on this Islam topic a little bit. What you're

1130
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 1: saying is that Islamists have no concept of separation between

1131
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 1: mosque and state.

1132
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:03,919
Speaker 2: I think that's actually islam one I won.

1133
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:07,040
Speaker 1: And I think that's important. And that's why when I

1134
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:10,920
Speaker 1: say Islam is not compatible with Western civilization, I'm not

1135
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:14,800
Speaker 1: inherently even attacking Islam. I do in other comments I say,

1136
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 1: but not in that one, that that's that's a that's

1137
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:21,520
Speaker 1: a separate topic for another time. But that one they

1138
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 1: get mad. They say, oh, no, we can coexist outside

1139
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 1: of the state, but Islam is a all encompassing there

1140
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:32,360
Speaker 1: that that a law is overall right, that you submit

1141
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:36,919
Speaker 1: in all that you do. And talk about how when

1142
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 1: the Islamists go into Western countries, we know that they

1143
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:42,920
Speaker 1: don't assimilate, but they actively then try to run for

1144
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:46,640
Speaker 1: political office and then try to get involved in government.

1145
01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 1: The rates of Islamic participation in government far exceeds rates

1146
01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:54,520
Speaker 1: of Christian participation in government. In the West. We are

1147
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:57,360
Speaker 1: on the precipice of having a Muslim mayor in Minneapolis,

1148
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:01,240
Speaker 1: New York, Calgary, and London. By the end of this

1149
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:01,960
Speaker 1: calendar year.

1150
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 2: Well, so I think the reason for that is because Muslims,

1151
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 2: certainly in Britain, tend to vote in blocks and tend

1152
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 2: to vote as households rather than as individuals. And this

1153
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:20,720
Speaker 2: is it's just the way it is. They tend to be,

1154
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:28,080
Speaker 2: you know, rooted more in kinship and tribe and ethnicity

1155
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:30,960
Speaker 2: than is common has been common in England. I mean

1156
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 2: in England.

1157
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:32,080
Speaker 1: We know.

1158
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 2: This is a wonderful book by Alan McFarlane, colleague of

1159
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:38,080
Speaker 2: mine in Cambridge, called The Origins of English Individualism that

1160
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 2: shows that the English people from the thirteenth twelve thirteenth

1161
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:44,720
Speaker 2: century onwards were constantly moving around, always moving around. We

1162
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:47,000
Speaker 2: were not very familiar, We weren't very sort of clan

1163
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:50,960
Speaker 2: based at all. Whereas are sort of new arrivals, the

1164
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 2: new English as it were, I do not take that

1165
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 2: approach at all. And so you've got you've got very

1166
01:01:57,280 --> 01:02:00,960
Speaker 2: very high rates of kind of electoral electoral blocks. And

1167
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:03,680
Speaker 2: that means, you know, it's like eighty eighty five percent

1168
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:07,600
Speaker 2: of Muslims will vote labor roughly and so effectively. That's

1169
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 2: why you see a lot of a lot of you know, mayoralties,

1170
01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 2: a lot of local MPs. Will the Mayor of London's

1171
01:02:13,160 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 2: at Econa seems to be like he's going to be

1172
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 2: running on Metropolis for the foreseeable future.

1173
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 1: Isn't that interesting that eighty five percent of American Muslims

1174
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:24,200
Speaker 1: so Democrat eight and eighty five percent of UK Muslims

1175
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 1: vote Labor, which is interchangeable parts. That goes to show

1176
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:29,000
Speaker 1: that it's not an outreach problem on behalf of the

1177
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:33,400
Speaker 1: Republican Party. You're conservative, that's their disposition, like you're importing

1178
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 1: future voters, Yeah, of a certain political party.

1179
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's true. What interestingly we saw last

1180
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:43,480
Speaker 2: summer was five MPs were elected to the House of

1181
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 2: Commons on explicitly pro Gaza tickets. That is to say,

1182
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:52,240
Speaker 2: they were elected they were in Labor strongholds, but their

1183
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:55,000
Speaker 2: promise to voters they were going to stand as independent MPs,

1184
01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:58,560
Speaker 2: and their promise was we're going to take Gaza more

1185
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:02,040
Speaker 2: seriously even than the Abor Party is taking it. And

1186
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:04,200
Speaker 2: so for the first time in the history of British politics,

1187
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:07,800
Speaker 2: we saw five members of Parliament returned to the House

1188
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 2: of Commons who were explicitly loyal to a foreign entity

1189
01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 2: that doesn't even exist, but not to Britain, and you

1190
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:19,440
Speaker 2: know that is something that's new and that and so

1191
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:24,200
Speaker 2: you're starting to see some cracks in this strange coalition

1192
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:27,560
Speaker 2: between you know, Rainbow and crescent and stuff.

1193
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:29,000
Speaker 1: So I want you to build that out because we're

1194
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:31,400
Speaker 1: running tight on time. But so what is it to

1195
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 1: say that against rainbow? So the precrescent and the stars.

1196
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:36,600
Speaker 2: So think of think of rainbow as a kind of

1197
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:43,400
Speaker 2: metonomy for progressivism, and the crescent for Islam, and the

1198
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:47,520
Speaker 2: star for socialism, good old fashioned old left socialism and these.

1199
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:51,040
Speaker 2: This is that, this is really this messy coalition that

1200
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:55,439
Speaker 2: holds the left all across the Western political landscape, and

1201
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 2: up until now they've operated in lockstep. I said this

1202
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 2: in my neck On speech last July. You know the

1203
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:07,240
Speaker 2: jokes on us conservatives when we laugh at Gaze for Gaza,

1204
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 2: The joke's on us. Why because in fact it's a

1205
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:17,160
Speaker 2: completely within within their worldview. It's a completely consistent and

1206
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:22,320
Speaker 2: coherent position. It's not it's not funny, it's frightening. What

1207
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:24,960
Speaker 2: it means is what they're saying, what that movement and

1208
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 2: movements like it are saying, is that we hate the

1209
01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:31,840
Speaker 2: West more than we hate each other. And we're going

1210
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 2: to We're going to destroy the West before we turn

1211
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:38,040
Speaker 2: on each other. A gaze for Gaza. You know, Rainbow

1212
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:40,360
Speaker 2: and crescent will be together until we've got rid of

1213
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:45,040
Speaker 2: the cross. And so you know, in Britain you're studying

1214
01:04:45,040 --> 01:04:47,520
Speaker 2: to see those cracks appearing. I think, you know, maybe

1215
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:51,680
Speaker 2: they're parts of the America where you're starting to see.

1216
01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:54,640
Speaker 2: But then you know, Trump miraculously gets dearborn and he

1217
01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:57,640
Speaker 2: gets very you know, he wins the Muslims, does very

1218
01:04:57,680 --> 01:05:00,400
Speaker 2: well among the Muslims. So it's more complicated with you here.

1219
01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:04,200
Speaker 2: But I mean that coalition is very fragile, and you know,

1220
01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:06,320
Speaker 2: for now it's held together by this sort of common

1221
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:10,680
Speaker 2: sort of collective hatred for the for the oppressor, whether

1222
01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:13,160
Speaker 2: it's Israel or whether it's the British establishment.

1223
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:15,520
Speaker 1: I have two final things I want to talk about,

1224
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:17,480
Speaker 1: the first of which is broad and then I want

1225
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 1: to talk about jd Vance at the end. First of

1226
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:22,120
Speaker 1: which is when you come to America, what is it

1227
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:25,360
Speaker 1: that you appreciate about this country that you want that

1228
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:27,760
Speaker 1: you want Americans to know as an outsider, that you

1229
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:29,760
Speaker 1: see that it's different and unique.

1230
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:34,080
Speaker 2: Well, in a strange way, coming to America is like

1231
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:37,840
Speaker 2: coming to a new world, a strange and unfamiliar world

1232
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:41,960
Speaker 2: where you know, you can't speak English properly and you

1233
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:46,040
Speaker 2: have all these funny habits. But another you know, for

1234
01:05:46,080 --> 01:05:49,520
Speaker 2: the most part, there's a sense now, particularly given the

1235
01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:54,080
Speaker 2: scale and speed of the demographic change and churn in

1236
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:57,240
Speaker 2: my corner of England, to the southeast of England, there's

1237
01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:01,920
Speaker 2: a sense of coming home, you know. I can you know,

1238
01:06:02,840 --> 01:06:05,760
Speaker 2: land in particularly somewhere like Phoenix a couple of nights ago,

1239
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:10,480
Speaker 2: and I sort of I'm surrounded by not quite my people,

1240
01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:13,360
Speaker 2: but I'm surrounded by the English speaking I'm among the

1241
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:18,520
Speaker 2: English speaking peoples. I'm in the anglosphere. I'm you know,

1242
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:22,920
Speaker 2: I'm in the world of the anglosphere. And that's something

1243
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:25,880
Speaker 2: which now has almost as a kind of nostalgia. There's

1244
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:29,560
Speaker 2: a sense of there's a sense of home, weird homecoming

1245
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:32,120
Speaker 2: that because I can see glimpses of the old world

1246
01:06:32,120 --> 01:06:34,360
Speaker 2: in the new glimpses of the old world that are

1247
01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:36,680
Speaker 2: no longer, that are beginning to fade in the old world.

1248
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm putting this very clearly, but

1249
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:39,960
Speaker 2: do you understand what I mean?

1250
01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:44,520
Speaker 1: I do? And look, we're a very confusing country because

1251
01:06:44,520 --> 01:06:48,600
Speaker 1: we're very we had contradiction, but one of them is

1252
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:54,280
Speaker 1: free speech. Free speech was a British birthright. If how

1253
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:57,240
Speaker 1: many people are arrested on a daily basis in Britain

1254
01:06:57,600 --> 01:06:58,640
Speaker 1: for speech crime.

1255
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:05,600
Speaker 2: Thirty a day, arrested thirty offenses, so we you know

1256
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:07,560
Speaker 2: what we now have in England is this sort of

1257
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:11,360
Speaker 2: kind of complex shopping list of different offenses and indeed

1258
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:16,000
Speaker 2: non offenses. Fifteen years ago something was introduced called a

1259
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:18,520
Speaker 2: non crime hate incident.

1260
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:24,240
Speaker 1: How about that for or I was going to say, so.

1261
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:26,960
Speaker 2: The idea behind a non crime hate incidents is if

1262
01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:30,919
Speaker 2: you've been you haven't committed a crime, but somebody has

1263
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:34,440
Speaker 2: got upset at something you've said, or you're sailing a

1264
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:37,840
Speaker 2: bit too close to the wind on discrimination, we'll take

1265
01:07:37,880 --> 01:07:40,680
Speaker 2: your name and we'll record it and we'll keep it.

1266
01:07:41,120 --> 01:07:45,200
Speaker 2: Now that the last government did manage to reverse it,

1267
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:47,280
Speaker 2: introduced it, but it managed to reverse some of the

1268
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:49,600
Speaker 2: worst of that, but it's it's still there. And so

1269
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:53,480
Speaker 2: we have these extraordinarily kind of pernicious statutes on the

1270
01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:57,880
Speaker 2: books which effectively weaponizes allow the police to spend their

1271
01:07:57,880 --> 01:08:03,520
Speaker 2: whole time policing tweets, not streets, and what you're seeing

1272
01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:06,560
Speaker 2: in the police force is a sort of massive mass demoralization.

1273
01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:09,439
Speaker 2: I saw three days ago there's a seventeen percent drop

1274
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:11,800
Speaker 2: over the last year and sign ups to the police force.

1275
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:14,800
Speaker 2: It's because it's a pretty thankless job. Now. It used

1276
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:17,360
Speaker 2: to be the case that a policeman, to become a

1277
01:08:17,360 --> 01:08:19,960
Speaker 2: policeman was one of the great kind of professions you

1278
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:22,280
Speaker 2: could get into if you were you know, civic minded,

1279
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:24,720
Speaker 2: pretty bright, but you know, not an egghead like me,

1280
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:28,200
Speaker 2: you could go into the police force. Theresa May brings

1281
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:31,120
Speaker 2: in a requirement for a degree requirement. You've now got

1282
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:32,880
Speaker 2: to go to some Mickey Mouse university to get a

1283
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:37,320
Speaker 2: Mickey Mouse degree to be eligible to become a British Bobby.

1284
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:39,519
Speaker 2: And guess what, you know, they just want to sit

1285
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:44,759
Speaker 2: around policing tweets and checking TikTok and and checking your thoughts.

1286
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:47,439
Speaker 2: As one friend of mine who was arrested a few

1287
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:50,360
Speaker 2: years ago, was told by policeman on his.

1288
01:08:50,400 --> 01:08:52,560
Speaker 1: Way, they're arrested for wrong speak.

1289
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:56,120
Speaker 2: Wrong speak and wrong think in the case of these

1290
01:08:56,120 --> 01:08:59,040
Speaker 2: poor women. Or Adam Smith O'Connor that your vice president

1291
01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:01,799
Speaker 2: of the case that you're presidents so eloquently drew attention

1292
01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:04,439
Speaker 2: to in his brilliant Munich speech back in February. Adam

1293
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:11,479
Speaker 2: Smith O'Connor, who whose child was aborted and he would

1294
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:16,160
Speaker 2: pray outside the abortion clinic where his son was aborted,

1295
01:09:16,240 --> 01:09:19,960
Speaker 2: at pray silently in his head. And because he breached

1296
01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:22,720
Speaker 2: the buffer zones that have been imposed by in the

1297
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:25,519
Speaker 2: course of the last government, under the consert extensibly conservative government,

1298
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:29,840
Speaker 2: he was arrested for breaching those zones and for being intimidating.

1299
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:32,920
Speaker 2: There's a no protest, no speech, not holding a sign,

1300
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:35,000
Speaker 2: praying silently.

1301
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:39,120
Speaker 1: And do you believe that there is a reckoning that

1302
01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:42,040
Speaker 1: will come on the culture of free speech in Britain?

1303
01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:45,000
Speaker 2: So I think there'll be a reckoning on everything. I

1304
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:48,280
Speaker 2: mean the part of the free speech. You know, it's

1305
01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:52,559
Speaker 2: when you start talking about free speech a societies talking

1306
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:55,639
Speaker 2: about free speech, worrying about free speech, that there's probably

1307
01:09:56,040 --> 01:10:00,599
Speaker 2: no more free speech. We never worried about free speech

1308
01:10:01,280 --> 01:10:04,000
Speaker 2: when there was a WII, when there was a first

1309
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:06,599
Speaker 2: person plural, we didn't have to worry about it. Why

1310
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:10,280
Speaker 2: because basically ninety eight percent of the population broadly speaking,

1311
01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:15,560
Speaker 2: shared a common universe of norms and conventions and manners

1312
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:20,080
Speaker 2: that are built up over sedimented over centuries, and so

1313
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:25,400
Speaker 2: we knew what the acceptable parameters and limits of speech were.

1314
01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:30,799
Speaker 2: But once you go through this extraordinary experience, unprecedented experiment

1315
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:36,080
Speaker 2: in mass demographic reconfiguration, let's just just put it euphemistically,

1316
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:39,280
Speaker 2: then all the norms have gone, all the norms are dissolved,

1317
01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:41,360
Speaker 2: and you've got to learn to cope with and get

1318
01:10:41,360 --> 01:10:46,479
Speaker 2: along with, exist alongside people for whom free speeches makes

1319
01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:47,400
Speaker 2: no sense at all.

1320
01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:50,679
Speaker 1: Well, especially Muslims are not going to be the ones

1321
01:10:51,000 --> 01:10:52,120
Speaker 1: arguing for free speech.

1322
01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:56,920
Speaker 2: The opposite, correct, correct, absolutely.

1323
01:10:56,439 --> 01:10:58,160
Speaker 1: Right, They're not going to be your big fight.

1324
01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:00,360
Speaker 2: No, I mean, because the central idea within it alarm

1325
01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:02,040
Speaker 2: is alarm.

1326
01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:05,320
Speaker 1: So submit is submission. And also they don't want you

1327
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:07,800
Speaker 1: to be able to criticize Muhammad or all that.

1328
01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:10,240
Speaker 2: You know, the idea of free speech that comes through

1329
01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:14,840
Speaker 2: in Athens with this idea of paisiaa isogoria in the

1330
01:11:14,840 --> 01:11:17,760
Speaker 2: Athenian Assembly in the fifth century BC. But if you

1331
01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:19,720
Speaker 2: also see it come through in the Christian tradition the

1332
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:22,720
Speaker 2: second century AD, when these early Christian apologists are get

1333
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:25,880
Speaker 2: being arrested and they go to the emperor and they say, look,

1334
01:11:26,320 --> 01:11:29,479
Speaker 2: surely you o Emperor, you don't want me to bow

1335
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:32,160
Speaker 2: the knee or burn my pinch of incense or worship

1336
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:34,439
Speaker 2: few if you wouldn't want me to do that, if

1337
01:11:34,439 --> 01:11:37,880
Speaker 2: you knew that my belief was being coerced, Surely it's

1338
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:40,080
Speaker 2: a good thing for me to try to freely decide

1339
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:44,040
Speaker 2: what I should worship. So you see this in Titalian,

1340
01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:47,000
Speaker 2: the first Latin church father. He's the first person to

1341
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:49,920
Speaker 2: come up with the phrase freedom of religion libertas religionness.

1342
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:52,760
Speaker 2: There's actually freedom of speech is downstream of freedom of

1343
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:56,280
Speaker 2: religion as a Western value. I mean, yes, it's there

1344
01:11:56,479 --> 01:11:59,360
Speaker 2: in Athens, but really emerges in the kind of that

1345
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:03,960
Speaker 2: tussle between the early Christians and the Roman authorities and

1346
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:06,240
Speaker 2: his freedom of really we should have freedom to worship,

1347
01:12:06,439 --> 01:12:09,639
Speaker 2: freedom to meet on Sundays, and that took three hundred

1348
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:11,960
Speaker 2: years for them to win that riot. But then the

1349
01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:14,479
Speaker 2: freedom of speech and freedom of expression and freedom of

1350
01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:18,280
Speaker 2: association is a kind of secular kind of counterpart to

1351
01:12:18,360 --> 01:12:20,160
Speaker 2: that and downstream of it.

1352
01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:23,320
Speaker 1: Last question, you a piece just came out that showed

1353
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:26,200
Speaker 1: you that has said that you were JD's mentor JD

1354
01:12:26,360 --> 01:12:31,040
Speaker 1: Vance's mentor our wonderful Vice President United States and maybe

1355
01:12:31,040 --> 01:12:34,040
Speaker 1: the next president of the United States tell us about that.

1356
01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:41,320
Speaker 2: First of all, that's ridiculous. If anything, he has mentored

1357
01:12:41,880 --> 01:12:44,920
Speaker 2: me far more than I've mentored him. I've learned so

1358
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:48,200
Speaker 2: much from him. I've been learning from him since twenty sixteen,

1359
01:12:48,040 --> 01:12:50,400
Speaker 2: when a Texan friend of mine pressed He'll Billy Elergy

1360
01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:54,000
Speaker 2: into my hands two weeks before the elections, saying Trump

1361
01:12:54,040 --> 01:12:57,880
Speaker 2: is going to win and this is why. And I

1362
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:00,920
Speaker 2: remember reading that book, and my mutual friend of ours, Rodre,

1363
01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:04,720
Speaker 2: was graving about it and and did an interview with

1364
01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:06,880
Speaker 2: with with JD and and and the book, you know,

1365
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:10,320
Speaker 2: rocketed up through the charts. So he caught my eye then,

1366
01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:14,559
Speaker 2: and just it's just a great, great sort of privilege

1367
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:15,880
Speaker 2: and sort of pride to it to be able to

1368
01:13:15,880 --> 01:13:17,920
Speaker 2: call him a friend. And we we've got to know

1369
01:13:17,960 --> 01:13:21,960
Speaker 2: each other over the years. And you know that mental line,

1370
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:23,439
Speaker 2: it's just media mischief, really.

1371
01:13:23,880 --> 01:13:25,840
Speaker 1: I so, what do you see in him as a statesman?

1372
01:13:26,840 --> 01:13:28,920
Speaker 2: So I see somebody who is sort of wise and

1373
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:32,960
Speaker 2: mature beyond his beyond his years. I think he's got

1374
01:13:33,160 --> 01:13:36,040
Speaker 2: a kind of a sense of calm, a sense of

1375
01:13:36,600 --> 01:13:39,280
Speaker 2: I think's he's just highly intelligent. You don't get that

1376
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:42,840
Speaker 2: many just really high IQ politicians anymore, certainly not in Britain.

1377
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:46,000
Speaker 2: I don't know about America. But now he's just got

1378
01:13:46,040 --> 01:13:51,160
Speaker 2: kind of raw cognitive processing power, and but he doesn't

1379
01:13:51,160 --> 01:13:53,000
Speaker 2: show it too it doesn't show it too much, but

1380
01:13:53,040 --> 01:13:55,880
Speaker 2: it's there, and that helps a great deal. Like he

1381
01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:58,719
Speaker 2: can he can size up, he can size up a problem,

1382
01:13:58,760 --> 01:14:00,000
Speaker 2: he can size up in this. You know, the most

1383
01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:02,479
Speaker 2: interesting thing about that leaked signal chat do you remember

1384
01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:05,040
Speaker 2: from a few months ago? I thought the most interesting

1385
01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:10,479
Speaker 2: bit was JD's saying something like, wait a minute, the

1386
01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:12,839
Speaker 2: US only gets x percent. I think it's four percent

1387
01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:17,679
Speaker 2: of trade through the Sewers canal. The Europeans are getting,

1388
01:14:18,160 --> 01:14:21,840
Speaker 2: you know, several factors more, why are we bearing the

1389
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:24,679
Speaker 2: brunt of this? And I just thought, of course, I mean,

1390
01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:27,840
Speaker 2: first of all, that what did that little revelation say.

1391
01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:31,559
Speaker 2: One he really drilled out he wasn't getting policy advised.

1392
01:14:31,600 --> 01:14:34,719
Speaker 2: He just worked that out. Two, he's working it out

1393
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:37,400
Speaker 2: with the interests of the American people first and foremost

1394
01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:40,320
Speaker 2: in his mind. I was very striking little detail that.

1395
01:14:41,040 --> 01:14:43,120
Speaker 2: And we just don't have politicians like that. We don't

1396
01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:48,960
Speaker 2: have politicians whose reflex is to refract every public policy question,

1397
01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:52,040
Speaker 2: whether it's foreign policy, domestic policy, economic policy, cultural policy,

1398
01:14:52,479 --> 01:14:56,519
Speaker 2: through the prism of the national interest, of national preference.

1399
01:14:56,920 --> 01:15:00,759
Speaker 2: This is just a strange, you know, idea to liberal mind,

1400
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:03,400
Speaker 2: but it's the politics of the future. It's the politics

1401
01:15:03,400 --> 01:15:06,360
Speaker 2: of home, it's the politics of belonging, it's the politics

1402
01:15:06,479 --> 01:15:10,200
Speaker 2: of nationhood, of the first person plural, and it's what

1403
01:15:10,320 --> 01:15:13,280
Speaker 2: defines the new Right, and it's why the old Right

1404
01:15:13,320 --> 01:15:17,120
Speaker 2: gets confused when some slightly left leaning economic policies sometimes

1405
01:15:17,160 --> 01:15:20,400
Speaker 2: pop up. Nigel's sort of talking about maybe, you know,

1406
01:15:20,920 --> 01:15:24,519
Speaker 2: renationalizing the water companies, and it seems crazy. I thought

1407
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:26,640
Speaker 2: you were was a Thatcher, right, But actually, if you'd

1408
01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:28,680
Speaker 2: think it may be the case that if you're really

1409
01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:30,960
Speaker 2: putting the natural interest first, maybe you want to go

1410
01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:33,080
Speaker 2: easy on trade, maybe you want to put some tariffs on.

1411
01:15:34,040 --> 01:15:36,679
Speaker 2: And you know, it's very hard for the pre twenty sixteen,

1412
01:15:37,160 --> 01:15:40,360
Speaker 2: the long twentieth century kind of political ideology to understand this.

1413
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:42,960
Speaker 2: But once you've got the national preference in mind, you

1414
01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:46,920
Speaker 2: can understand JD's decisions, you can understand the Vice president's

1415
01:15:46,920 --> 01:15:48,360
Speaker 2: way of thinking about the world, you can understand the

1416
01:15:48,360 --> 01:15:51,160
Speaker 2: president's way of thinking about the world. He's not, you know,

1417
01:15:51,240 --> 01:15:53,360
Speaker 2: you might think he's a limousine liberal. You might have

1418
01:15:53,360 --> 01:15:55,719
Speaker 2: predicted him to be a limousine liberal from nineteen nineties onwards.

1419
01:15:55,720 --> 01:15:58,160
Speaker 2: And he's whacking all these tariffs on and he's doing

1420
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:00,439
Speaker 2: things which are you know, he's been and it's foreign

1421
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:05,080
Speaker 2: policy neither isolationist nor idealist. He's being a realist. He's

1422
01:16:05,120 --> 01:16:08,320
Speaker 2: he's assessing the world as it is and not as

1423
01:16:08,360 --> 01:16:09,680
Speaker 2: the liberal mind would like it to be.

1424
01:16:10,280 --> 01:16:13,080
Speaker 1: Well, doctor, where I think i'll use the first person plural.

1425
01:16:13,200 --> 01:16:16,719
Speaker 1: We really enjoyed our chat here today. God bless you, doctor,

1426
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:17,679
Speaker 1: or thank you so much.

1427
01:16:25,280 --> 01:16:27,360
Speaker 4: For more on many of these stories and news you

1428
01:16:27,400 --> 01:16:29,360
Speaker 4: can trust, go to Charliekirk dot com.