1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 2: Why do you think we're hearing so many stories of 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 2: Christian artists who have abandoned the faith or failed morally. 4 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: This may shock the listener the viewer, but the foundationists 5 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:18,959 Speaker 1: on sand I guarantee you if you would talk to 6 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: these people and go back to ground zero. For whatever 7 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: reason those foundations crumbled, I guarantee you that those foundations 8 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: were never built on solid scriptural perspective and biblical worldview. 9 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: You know, somebody might say, I guess God and his 10 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: mercy and grace is giving you a platform again. Are 11 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:41,639 Speaker 1: you fearful that again you could be being set up 12 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: for a four? They're absolutely right, Sean. I know the 13 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: wickedness of the heart and how deceitfully wicked the heart 14 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: can be. 15 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 2: Why is one of the founding members of the Newsboys 16 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 2: speaking out now? What is his message to the church, 17 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 2: the Christian music industry, and the next generation. Why was 18 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 2: he kicked out of the Newsboys? And how do you 19 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 2: find redemption after being at such a low point that 20 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 2: he contemplated ending his life. Our guest today, John James, 21 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 2: is here to address these questions and talk about his 22 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 2: upcoming book, Newsboy. John loved your book. I was telling 23 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 2: you beforehand that I read it. It's so interesting. I 24 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 2: haven't seen you since the mid nineties in person, when 25 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 2: you were traveling with my dad when he would speak. 26 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 2: You did music with a band throughout all of Texas. 27 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 2: You guys did I don't know, thirty or forty cities together. 28 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 2: So both of us have great a little bit. But 29 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 2: it's such a joy to catch up. Thanks for coming 30 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 2: on good day showing Matte. 31 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: It's pretty awesome to be here. Who would have thought, Hey, 32 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: years later, we'd be here talk And I'm still as 33 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: bold as ever, and you have an age the day, mate, 34 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: so it's great to be here. 35 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 2: Well, I do want to jump in with some of 36 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 2: the drama that have been surrounding just Christian music industry 37 00:01:56,360 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: in general, Newsboys in particular. But one of the other 38 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 2: founding members of the Newsboys is an atheist. The most 39 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 2: recent lead singer, Michael Tate, admitted to serious sexual misconduct 40 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 2: in your book, which I said, I loved by the 41 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 2: way you share your story of moral failure while touring 42 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 2: with the Newsboys. And this is just the beginning of 43 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 2: so many of these kinds of stories we've heard from 44 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 2: Christian artists and well beyond, including apologists, of which I 45 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 2: am one. But let me ask you this, is there 46 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 2: something broken in the Christian music industry itself? 47 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: I think the broken thing is in the hearts of people. 48 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: And when you break down the industry to a fundamental level, 49 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: an organized structure to distribute and get the gospel of 50 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: Jesus Christ out there through a music platform, and people 51 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,119 Speaker 1: sometimes have said, well, we need to burn it all 52 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: down because it's inherently corrupt. I don't believe that. I 53 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:02,239 Speaker 1: think the issues in the industry that we've created is 54 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,559 Speaker 1: in regards to how we do authenticity, how we do accountability, 55 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: how we have a platform where you have young men 56 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 1: and women that are one day obsolete and unknown, and 57 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:20,679 Speaker 1: the next day they're put in this incredible influential position. 58 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: Now and especially through social media where you can go viral. Now, 59 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: I think we have created a culture where we elevate 60 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: and put people on pedestals because of their merit of talent, gifting, charisma, talent, 61 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: But what about the foundation of character, what about the 62 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: foundation of theology. You know, these young men and women 63 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: who we put up there because they look incredible, they 64 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: sound incredible, these amazing voices and songs, so they're fast 65 00:03:55,960 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: tracked to this incredible place of influence. But you know 66 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:04,119 Speaker 1: it's not rocket science, mate. If the if, the character 67 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: and the foundation, and as believers, the solid theology isn't there. Really, 68 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: what you're doing is you're setting people up potentially for failure. 69 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 1: And I think that's why we've seen that happen so much, 70 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: whether in the Christian music industry or in the church environment, 71 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: and it's it's kind of the result of I think 72 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: what we've unfortunately created at times. 73 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 2: I think that's really well said theology and character. And 74 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 2: also you've got to make money at concerts and got 75 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 2: to make money with albums, and so temptation can be 76 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 2: built in to just pass these very things and put 77 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 2: somebody on stage who performs, and then later it ends 78 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 2: up undermined the very aim itself, which is to honor 79 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 2: the Lord. Let me ask you this. I'm concerned in 80 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 2: the church when sometimes there's an over emphasis on the 81 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 2: intellect at the expense of emotion. Sometimes there's there's an 82 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 2: over emphasis on emotionalism and experience within the church. And 83 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,840 Speaker 2: I see this all the time, John, that people are 84 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:11,679 Speaker 2: tempted to think that musicians, pastors or others, just because 85 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 2: we're on stage sing or preach with passion or boldness, 86 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 2: are closer to the Lord. Do you share this concern 87 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 2: with Christian music in particular where there can be an 88 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 2: over emphasis on emotionalism in evangelicalism and just feed this 89 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 2: rather than lead towards real grounding in character theology? In 90 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 2: other words, do we put emotion in its place or 91 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 2: does Christian music elevate it too much in a way 92 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 2: that's potentially unhealthy. 93 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: I think yes, yes, and more yes to all of that, 94 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,359 Speaker 1: you know, Sean. I think when you encounter the Lord 95 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,720 Speaker 1: in a real and a profound way, it can be 96 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: very impactful in regards to our emotions. There can be 97 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: times where you know you find yourself at the foot 98 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: of the crossing repentance, and I mean authentic repentance, not 99 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: an emotional high where tears are just streaming down your face. 100 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:12,359 Speaker 1: I think we're are people who we're moved by something, 101 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 1: and we love to swing the pendulum in the extreme, 102 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: either left or or right. I love an incredible encounter 103 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: with the Lord, but I refuse to allow an emotional 104 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: high or experience to form my theology. I'm not against 105 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: the great experience but my experience doesn't create my theology. 106 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: The Word of God creates my theology. Amen. So I'm 107 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 1: not against an experience. But hang on, let me go 108 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 1: back to scripture. What what does the scripture talk about? 109 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: Self control? 110 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 3: What? 111 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,799 Speaker 1: What does the scripture talk about? You know, the fruit 112 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,799 Speaker 1: of the spirit. You know, are we called to bear 113 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,359 Speaker 1: experiences and bear gifts? Or are we call are we 114 00:06:55,440 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: called to bear fruit? So I'm I'm finding that place 115 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 1: of God help me to walk a balance life. I 116 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: never want to become so callous or hardened that I 117 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: can't experience the Lord in a deep and profound way 118 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: emotionally at times. But my barometer to whether God is 119 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: present is that meant by an amount of goosebumps, how 120 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: many tears I shed. There's times I've been in the 121 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: presence of the Lord and I have felt absolutely nothing. 122 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: But according to scripture, God is there. He doesn't need 123 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: my invitation. Whether you go to the north, southeast, west, 124 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: the highest mountain, the deepest depths in the ocean, God 125 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: is there. So I'm learning there are times where I 126 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: guess we may encounter the Lord on a mountaintop experience, 127 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: but we don't live there, And there's times where we 128 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: may go through our walk with the Lord and experience nothing, 129 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean that intimacy has been negated or 130 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: switched off. So I'm kind of like you. I'm looking 131 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: at this in an honest, biblical way. But like I said, 132 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: I refuse to allow an experience to shape my theology. 133 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 2: Amen to that. Let's interpret our experience through our theology, 134 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 2: and not our theology through our experience. One of my 135 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 2: members said to me, probably twenty or twenty five years ago, John, 136 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 2: they said, you know, at the top of a mountain, 137 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 2: trees don't grow. They grow in the bottom. You can 138 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 2: have a mountaintop experience, but that's not actually where growth 139 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 2: itself takes place. And I just remember that. It's just 140 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 2: such a simple point that's true. Now, i'd love to 141 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 2: get your take on this. We've heard a lot of 142 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 2: stories of deconstruction and deconversion again pastors and apologists, not 143 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 2: just Christian artists. But if you had to sum it up, 144 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 2: why do you think we're hearing so many stories of 145 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 2: Christian artists who have a band in the faith and 146 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 2: or failed morally. 147 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,199 Speaker 1: I think two things they first, all with the deconstruction, 148 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: I think the foundationists on sand. And I think they're 149 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: trying to deconstruct because the foundation of their core conviction, 150 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: what is it built on? The foundation? And I'm sorry 151 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: that the listener at a viewer if they hear me 152 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 1: saying repeatively the importance of it is written and the 153 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: authenticity of our foundation. And I look at and I 154 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: know people that have gone down the road of deconstruction. 155 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 1: But I guarantee you if you would talk to these 156 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 1: people and go back to ground zero on the fundamentals 157 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: that they had built their lives on and for whatever 158 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:49,599 Speaker 1: reason those foundations crumbled, I guarantee you that those foundations 159 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: were never built on solid scriptural perspective and biblical worldview. 160 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: They may have had a perception or an opinion of 161 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: foundational truths, I guarantee you it was built on sand. 162 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: Isn't it amazing? How I think the enemy creates nothing. 163 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: The enemy always loves to distort what God has created. 164 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: You know, you look at the Scripture. I guess in 165 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: a sense, Sean, we're all of change in being renewed 166 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: and deconstructing by the Spirit of God who we were 167 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 1: pre Christ. And there is a deconstruction, I guess in 168 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: a sense of the way we used to think, and 169 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: the scripture now is deconstructing and renewing our minds. From 170 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:42,839 Speaker 1: a biblical perspective, our lives are being deconstructed, but recreated 171 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: now as a new creature in Christ. The problem with 172 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: the deconstruction, they're trying to take God's place being at 173 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: the helm of the deconstruction, where it's the work of 174 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 1: the Holy Spirit. It's the work as we draw closer 175 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: and the eyes of our understanding, as we grow on 176 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 1: revelation of who God is and who we are now 177 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: according to God's design. You know we are I guess 178 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 1: the old man is being renewed, deconstructed, dying, you know, 179 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 1: I guess that's a daily thing. You know, how can 180 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 1: you follow Christ and not die? To south daily take 181 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 1: up your cross? You know, we're constantly being renewed. So 182 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: I understand where they're coming from. The problem is they've 183 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 1: put themselves in a driver's seat, and they put themselves 184 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: in the place of God Almighty at being at the 185 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: helm of how we deconstruct and how we rebuild and 186 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: redo the wiring, and that's the job of the Holy Spirit. Mate. 187 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: And when we get involved with our humanistic perspective or 188 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: our humanistic views or our humanistic take on how many 189 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 1: genders God has and is God binary or not? 190 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:05,199 Speaker 4: When Meg gets involved, you're rewiring and distorting the DNA 191 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 4: and the circuitry of how God initially created us. 192 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 1: Sorry for the long answer, but like I said, I 193 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 1: understand where deconstructions and that whole thing are coming from. 194 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:21,559 Speaker 1: But I guarantee you the foundation was not built correctly, 195 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 1: and now they're taking the role of the Holy Spirit 196 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: of deconstructing and putting themselves back together. And we were 197 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: never meant to be in the driver's seat when it 198 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: comes to. 199 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 2: That, mate, That is a very interesting observation. Number one, 200 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 2: it's biblical. Of course, Jesus talks about your foundation not 201 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 2: being on sand. But how much do deconstruction and deconversion 202 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 2: stories reveal what was or wasn't there to start with? 203 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 2: That's a really fair question to go back to. I'm 204 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 2: eager to get to your story because it's riveting and 205 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 2: I know my viewers and listeners are going to love it. 206 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 2: But I have two more questions for you before we 207 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 2: jump in. You wrote something in your book that I've 208 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 2: thought about a lot, because I came from what some 209 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 2: people would call a celebrity, not really a pastor, but 210 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 2: celebrity evangelists. So I grew up with a father with 211 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 2: a mega platform, and I have a platform of my 212 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 2: own today. So I think about what's called celebrity culture. 213 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 2: In Newsboy, you wrote this, You said people were never 214 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,839 Speaker 2: meant to be worshiped or placed on pedestals as if 215 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 2: they were gods. Celebrities, icons, and leaders, whether in the 216 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 2: world or the Christian faith are not immune to this. 217 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 2: In fact, the pedestal is one of the most dangerous 218 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 2: places a human being can stand. Agree one hundred percent. 219 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 2: If being on a pedestal is so dangerous, why should 220 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 2: Christians even aspire to be celebrity pastors, influencers, rock stars, authors, YouTubers, 221 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 2: and so on. Wouldn't we be better served to just say, 222 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 2: as Christians, this is not something we're aspiring towards and 223 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 2: just live quiet, faithful lives. How would you respond to that? 224 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: People ask me that question. I've been asked that question. 225 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: I guess many times, whether it's the celebrity platform, whether 226 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: it's the fame, the influence, the success, the money, the lifestyle. 227 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,719 Speaker 1: People have asked me, do I have a perspective and 228 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:18,719 Speaker 1: a strong call conviction now that all those things are 229 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: evil things out to shipwreck you and take you under. 230 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: And I got to be honest and saying, I don't 231 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: believe that. The problem wasn't the pedestal, even though, like 232 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: I wrote about in the book, it can be such 233 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: a dangerous place. The problem wasn't the lifestyle or the money, 234 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: or the platform, or the fame or success. The problem 235 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: was always the foundation. You know, I have two daughters 236 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: and it's my prayer that they would be blessed and 237 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: be absolutely successful in life and experience God's incredible blessing 238 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: and favor in their life. But I understand the thing 239 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: that keeps all of that is in perspective is the foundation. 240 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: And what the problem why my world fell apart wasn't 241 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: because the fame, the success, the platform, the money. It 242 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 1: was the foundation. It was the anchors that I cut 243 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: from my life that set me up for a shipwreck. 244 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: And so I say to folks, no, they're not evil things. 245 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: But the way we manage them, the way we walk 246 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: with integrity and authority and of this authenticity, is by 247 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: continuing to build on the solid foundation, continuing to have 248 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: those safety nets and accountability structures in our life, continuing 249 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: to have people in our lives that knowahs warts and 250 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: all and are able to get in our face and 251 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: challenges in regards to the responsibility of being ambassadors of 252 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: servants as followers of Christ. So I look at that now, 253 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: and you know, somebody might say, well, your I guess 254 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: God and his mercy and grace is giving you a 255 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: platform again. Are you fearful that again you could be 256 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: being set up for a four And this may shock 257 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: the listener at the viewer, but they're absolutely right, Sean. 258 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: I know the wickedness of the heart and how deceitfully 259 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: wicked the heart can be. I think my greatest strength 260 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: in life now is knowing my weaknesses. And now I'm 261 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: deliberate with the accountability and the foundation and the structure 262 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: in my life that Sean, I've got to be honest, 263 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: I never had before. I never had those safeguards, that accountability. 264 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: I was never plugged in, honestly, plugged in and under 265 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: accountability in a local church. I never had peace people 266 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 1: speaking into my life that loved me enough to be 267 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: honest with me. You know that weren't intimidated to speak 268 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: up because they are on my payroll. Yeah, So that's 269 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: kind of my I hope I answered, you'll, yeah, you 270 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 1: did that, and the and the listener. That's kind of 271 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 1: where I feel about that today. 272 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 2: I agree with you on that. I obviously I wouldn't 273 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 2: do this. I don't think it's sinful to be an 274 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 2: author or a speaker or a YouTuber. I do these things. 275 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 2: I think God has called me in the sense of 276 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 2: equipped me and given me an opportunity to do them. 277 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:39,640 Speaker 2: I think the difference is Christians we gauge success differently 278 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 2: than the world. It's not by numbers, it's not by 279 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 2: praise from people. It's from faithfulness and hopefully treating others differently. 280 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 2: And so if we go into these platforms or these 281 00:17:55,680 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 2: opportunities and our metric of success is the world's success, 282 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 2: we're going to burn out, We're gonna morally fail. But 283 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,959 Speaker 2: if that's not our metric of success, and that's not 284 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 2: where our identity comes from, then we're much more able 285 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 2: to use it positively for the kingdom. That's how I 286 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 2: look at it. I have one more question for a 287 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 2: John before we jump in absolutely about I'm just throwing 288 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 2: this out there. I think about three months before Michael 289 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 2: Tate came out and just confessed to just the sexual misconduct. 290 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 2: And for those people not following, he was the lead 291 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 2: singer for years for the Newsboys, about a decade or 292 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 2: twelve years after you were there, and I asked him. 293 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 2: I asked him, and Jeff Frankenstein came on. I asked 294 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,880 Speaker 2: him about why musicians are failing? I asked him all 295 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 2: of these questions, not knowing this announcement was coming in 296 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 2: three months. So in part, my question is do you 297 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 2: have any intel on what the Newsboys are doing now? 298 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 2: Are they coming back? Can they weather this storm? Is 299 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 2: it time to close up, shut, close up? 300 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: Sharp? 301 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 2: Or you like Sean, I have moved on and I 302 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 2: am I don't even know what's going on. 303 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: I guess a little bit of both. It's funny, Sean, 304 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: you know, I was with the Newsboys for over sixteen years, 305 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: almost eighteen years, and although I left the band, you know, 306 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: almost thirty years ago, can you believe it's the story 307 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: and the testimony of the Newsboys good and bad was 308 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: still a part of my legacy and story. I I 309 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:41,679 Speaker 1: don't know what the future holds. I personally don't think 310 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 1: the band will be able to come back with the 311 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: current setup and arrangement that they had with the Newsboys. 312 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:56,199 Speaker 1: But I have to also be willing to step back 313 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: and understand from God's perspective of how He's able to 314 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: step into the most broken, toxic, dysfunctional, tragic scenario and 315 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: somehow in the midst of that, He's able to orchestrate 316 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: an incredible redemptive story. Now, my prayer is that God 317 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: would use the tragedy of the Newsboys and the mic 318 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: tape thing as an incredible testament and a redemptive story 319 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 1: of what He's wanting to do. Because at the end 320 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: of the day, Sean for you, for myself, for the listener, 321 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 1: for the viewer, If we take not only the redemption 322 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: for us as sinners coming to Christ for the first time, 323 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: but for the prodigals, if we take the possibility of 324 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: god incredible redemption to bring people back to the foot 325 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,479 Speaker 1: of the cross and repentance, then we're no better than 326 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: the Pharisees. Now I don't know how He's going to 327 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: do that, but I look at my story mate, the 328 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: epitome of my whole story in effect that I can 329 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 1: be here with you today's shouts of God's incredible redemptive 330 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 1: story in my life. Did I deserve it? Absolutely not. 331 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: The many people think, well, you don't deserve to be here. 332 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:29,199 Speaker 1: Probably absolutely true. But God, in his mercy and his grace, 333 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: drew me back to the foot of the cross in repentance, 334 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: and he chose to breathe life into me and pick 335 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: me up and for whatever reason, use me again as 336 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 1: a testimony of his redemption of his greatness. See what 337 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 1: I'm realizing now in as the latter part of my life, Sean. 338 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 1: For years, I used to think that I was the 339 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,439 Speaker 1: star of the movie being written about my life. I 340 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: was the star of the script of my life. But 341 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: now I'm realizing, crikey, I was never the star. It 342 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: was all of ways about him. I was just blessed 343 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 1: to be a supporting actor in God's redemptive story of 344 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: what He's doing. So I don't know what tomorrow looks 345 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: like for the for the Newsboys, if there will ever 346 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 1: be a Newsboys as we know it again. But what 347 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 1: I look forward to with great excitement and anticipation and 348 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: hope is that God would take the mess, and as 349 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,640 Speaker 1: he has done all through history, He's able to take 350 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 1: the brokenness and weave a powerful redemptive story out of 351 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: it and that's my prayer. That's my wife, that's that's 352 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: that's what I pray for. The band made. I don't 353 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: know what tomorrow looks like, but I'm praying that down 354 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,199 Speaker 1: the road we'll look back and say, Wow, God, you 355 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: still were able to bring a redemptive good story out 356 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,160 Speaker 1: of this, and that that's my prayer and hope. 357 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 2: John, This is a perfect segue to your own story 358 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 2: and the redemption you've experienced and again you talk about 359 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 2: in your book Newsboy, But your story really begins with 360 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 2: a dysfunction in your home with your father, with your parents' divorce. 361 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 2: What happened and how did that affect you? 362 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know when you're a child growing up and 363 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:26,120 Speaker 1: you're not able to articulate or understand the yelling, the fights, 364 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,400 Speaker 1: to shouting, but you're like a little sponge And even 365 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 1: as a child, you don't realize emotionally, mentally, physically, how 366 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: cognitively we're being rewired. As a teenager, you're kind of 367 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 1: dealing with the complexity of puberty, a teenage and everything. 368 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 1: But what you find as you continue to grow in 369 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: life and you may move away from that toxic environment. 370 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: So often we have a self preservation mechanism that we 371 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,439 Speaker 1: kind of suppress. You know, I'm over it. I'm an 372 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,439 Speaker 1: adult now, I ignore it. It It was just a crazy time. 373 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: I've moved on in life, and we so often don't 374 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: realize that knowingly or unknownly cognitively. It's like the circuitry 375 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 1: emotionally in certain areas of our life are just broken. 376 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:21,400 Speaker 1: But we overcompensate. We maybe for me, I use whether 377 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:25,439 Speaker 1: it was humor or sarcasm or or different things. We 378 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: can compensate with work, keeping busy. We overcompensate for those 379 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: areas that are deficient in our lives. I remember once 380 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: my wife was saying to me, she was talking about 381 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 1: an emotional area, and she was being incredibly transparent, and 382 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: she said to me, how do you feel about that area? 383 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:49,959 Speaker 1: And I had to be honest and I say, and 384 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: I said to her, imagine if our emotions are like 385 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 1: an emotional EQ, and there's certain frequencies in my emotion 386 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: or makeup that just aren't there, they don't work. I 387 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: can't adjust them because the slate is blank. I don't 388 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 1: even know how to confront it and how to talk 389 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 1: to it. And at the time I never understood the 390 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: psychology of it, but I realized that those formative years 391 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,679 Speaker 1: growing up and are broken, abuse of a toxic, a 392 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: dysfunctional family would rewire me emotionally and mess me up 393 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 1: for years. I just never had the capacity to face 394 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,719 Speaker 1: it articulated or especially as a man. I don't need 395 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 1: help on fine, and we can be so dysfunctional and 396 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 1: it's not until years later if you're able to get 397 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 1: help or people are able to help you walk through 398 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 1: that or allowing now the Lord to come. Sometimes we think, 399 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: why is God wanting to bring up stuff from years 400 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 1: in the past. I've moved on, But so often God 401 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: is wanting to go back for those areas, those hurts, 402 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 1: those wounds, those things that we've even forgotten, and bring 403 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: an emotional healing of those scars. And sometimes even into 404 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: our late years in life, we aren't even aware how 405 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: broken we are in those areas because we've overcompensated now 406 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: and we have no ability to identify them and honestly 407 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: look at them. It's like we're blind and we can't 408 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: even see them. Others may see them, but we don't. 409 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: So you know, I look at my broken childhood. Little 410 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,119 Speaker 1: did I know that as an adult, when I was 411 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 1: married with the newsboys in my first marriage, all those 412 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: things would affect my outcome in life. Who I was. 413 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: All those things, knowingly or unknowing would come back to 414 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: bite and damage me in regards to how I was 415 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,160 Speaker 1: going to respond now as an adult in my marriage, 416 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: in my family, how now would I respond? You know? 417 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: Would I do things totally different or the things that 418 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,439 Speaker 1: I saw my biological father do. Who for years I said, oh, 419 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: I'll never be like that. And yet, young and behold, 420 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: I find myself repeating and cloning a lot of those 421 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 1: toxic things that my dad did, that my family was. 422 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 1: But I swore I'll never do that. I'll never have 423 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: a marriage, I'll never be a dad like that, I'll 424 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: never be a husband like that. And lo and behold, 425 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: I was like reincarnated of my dad. Figuratively speaking, I 426 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: say that, of course, reproducing, reproducing the very things I 427 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: saw in him that I detested and for many years 428 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: hated about my dad. Isn't that bizarre? 429 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 2: It really is. It's just wired within us. We naturally become, 430 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 2: whether we want to or not, like our fathers. It's 431 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 2: just it's like the God has built it, which shows 432 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 2: the power and importance of being a good model to 433 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 2: our kids. But of course we're getting ahead of ourselves. 434 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:09,959 Speaker 2: In the book, you walk through how you were drawn 435 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 2: to the Christian faith and you had an experience with 436 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 2: Jesus early on. You tell a story of just kind 437 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 2: of starting the Newsboys, which originally was called The News 438 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 2: and just kind of fun story behind that. But before 439 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 2: we get to some of the cracks that emerge in 440 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 2: your life that you're hinting at for maybe people who 441 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 2: don't know in the mid nineties, how big was the 442 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 2: Newsboys and what kind of opportunities were you getting. 443 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: Oh back then, Kroikey, we were in an incredible position 444 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 1: and season where we were reaching millions of people, filling 445 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: the biggest arenas in the nation, seeing so many people 446 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: being reached through the platform of music, bringing a message 447 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: of hope found in christ. Not only were we signed 448 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: in the Christian music industry by back then we were 449 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: stars on records, but we actually signed with a secular 450 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: label also. We were signed to Virgin Records, and at 451 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: the time, you know, we were sharing that label with 452 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 1: you know, Lenny Kravitz, Jennet Jackson and all these secular artists, 453 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: and we were the only Christian band and I think 454 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: Virgin that they had ever signed back then, and what 455 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: was so amazing about that that I just took so 456 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,959 Speaker 1: much joy when whenever we would play in a city 457 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 1: because we were now signed with Virgin Records, the Virgin 458 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: reps had to come out and support one of their artists, 459 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: and I think initially, initially many of them came out thinking, Oh, 460 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: there's going to be some seazy band and a Christian 461 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: band with guys in long flowing gowns and wearing sandals 462 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 1: and tambourines and chanting kumboya, and they would rock up 463 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 1: to these arene as were several semis and the most 464 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 1: incredible equipment. I think that year the Rolling Stone magazine 465 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: said that the Newsboys Take Me to Your Leader tour 466 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: was one of the most successful and biggest tours on 467 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 1: the road, Christian or secular. And just to see these 468 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 1: these Virgin Record guys just in awe and blown away 469 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: at the level of excellence, the level of the production 470 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 1: and the show and everything, and that it was actually 471 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 1: not like anything that envisioned to me. I love that 472 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: because I guess it not only powerfully where we set 473 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 1: our message of who we are as Christians, but allowing 474 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: it the music and the excellence and the whole package 475 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 1: to reach so many people. You know, I'm still humble today, Sean. 476 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: Wherever we traveled years later, everywhere in my wife and 477 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: I speak, I always, without fail have some come up 478 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 1: to me and say, look, you don't know me, but 479 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,479 Speaker 1: you know thirty years ago, forty years ago, I was 480 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: at this concert that a friend took me. I wasn't 481 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: even a Christian and that night changed my life forever. 482 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: And I met Christ that night, and story like story 483 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: after that, It's always constantly humble. How God used a 484 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: bunch of misfit kids from the back end of Australia 485 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 1: in a garage, annoying the heck out of the neighbors, 486 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: and he chose to use us to bring us to 487 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: America and give us a platform to use music as 488 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: a vehicle to reach people. But then when we had 489 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: their attention to preach an authentic gospel, and I think 490 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: the News Boys, when I was with the band, we 491 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: always did our best to do that. Did we always 492 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: get it right? No, But when I was with the band, 493 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,959 Speaker 1: I think we were always mindful and passionate about the 494 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: platform we had was an incredible opportunity to share the gospel, 495 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: and Mate, we didn't care where we were people was 496 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 1: appropriate of not made. We were just we were just Yeah. 497 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: So what was funny when we were with Virgin they 498 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: helped open up a lot of secular festivals and stuff, 499 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: so we would be playing at these events and we're 500 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: the only Christian band there. But it was brilliant. Mate, 501 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: We never ever compromised. We were uniquely who we were 502 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 1: and we were never ashamed of that. 503 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 2: Hence the album about never being ashamed in the song. 504 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 2: But I just want to make sure for younger people 505 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 2: watching this, they don't miss when I was in high 506 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 2: school in college, you guys were it. You were the 507 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 2: big band. And the fact that Mike had traveled with 508 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 2: the guys was like that made me so proud of like, 509 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 2: dang my dad's preaching up there. Like it was just 510 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 2: the cool, fascinating, cutting edge band. You had it all that. 511 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 2: People would say from the outside, this guy must be happy, 512 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 2: he must be fulfilled, he is living the life God 513 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 2: is blessing him. But tell us about the cracks that 514 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,479 Speaker 2: began to emerge in your life that ultimately resulted in 515 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 2: you leaving the band. 516 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, we all want success. I think that 517 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: you know, our culture today idolizes and worship success, and 518 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 1: I guess you know, we all want to be successful, 519 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: we want our children to be successful, but we don't, 520 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: like you said, we don't really talk about, well, if 521 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 1: you are successful and you're living the dream, and you 522 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 1: have the lifestyle, the platform, the influence, what sort of 523 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:33,959 Speaker 1: pressure does the success put on your character, on your foundation, 524 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: on your marriage, on your sexuality, of your of your 525 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: foundations in life. And I got to let folks know, Sean, 526 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 1: at the heights of success, gaining the world, living the dream. 527 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 1: I guess in the Christian music industry in America, I 528 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 1: never woke up one day in my big house in 529 00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 1: Nashville and sat on the edge of my bed and thought, right, 530 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: what's on the agenda today? You know what am I 531 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:07,719 Speaker 1: going to do this month, this this this week. I 532 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,759 Speaker 1: know I'm going to destroy my marriage. I'm going to 533 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,800 Speaker 1: destroy my family. I'm going to destroy my children, my career, 534 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 1: my ministry, I'm going to destroy everything. It never happened 535 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: like that, Sean, And like you said, the cracks that 536 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 1: began to appear. I look back now and I realize 537 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,759 Speaker 1: that it was a journey of making tragic mistakes, of 538 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 1: allowing little compromises to begin to infiltrate your life. A 539 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,759 Speaker 1: little compromise here, A little compromise. Yeah, it's no big deal, 540 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: a little a little look at something on the internet 541 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,279 Speaker 1: over here that I shouldn't be like. It's no big deal, 542 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:48,360 Speaker 1: no one will know. But mate, little did I realize 543 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:53,399 Speaker 1: that when you start to erode the foundations of your 544 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,839 Speaker 1: life and allow those cracks of compromise starting to infiltrate. 545 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 1: It may seem small at the but mate, eventually it's 546 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: gonna it's gonna affect every year of your life. I mean, 547 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: it's gonna affect your marriage, your your integrity, your authenticity, 548 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,799 Speaker 1: you know, your standard of holiness with the Lord. It is. 549 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 1: It is going to creep in like leaven into a 550 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,280 Speaker 1: loaf of bread. I mean, it's going to get through area. 551 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 1: But should you know better? Yes? Do you see it? Yes? 552 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: But how do you go to people when you're one 553 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 1: of the biggest Christian bands in the world, one of 554 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:44,520 Speaker 1: the biggest Christian ministries in the world. How do you 555 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 1: go to people now and say I'm struggling in my marriage, 556 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:59,400 Speaker 1: I'm struggling in my identity, I'm struggling with the choices 557 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,399 Speaker 1: that I'm aching now, because not only is it your 558 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 1: livelihood at steak, it's a whole band members and their 559 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 1: families and livelihood at Steaks. So unfortunately, Sean, we we 560 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,839 Speaker 1: buy into the tragic deception and the lie that we 561 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,359 Speaker 1: wear a mask and the show must go on, and 562 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 1: it's it's it's a terrible place to be when you 563 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 1: know behind the doors things are coming undone, but you 564 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: feel the pressure of the responsibility. You know, we must 565 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,839 Speaker 1: win the loss at any cost. Well, what cost my marriage, 566 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,800 Speaker 1: my integrity, my my family? You know, like, well what 567 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:49,400 Speaker 1: what cost? And it's a it's a tragic place to be, mate. 568 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 2: M So tell us what happened when you're at the 569 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 2: point where that that snowball was picking up steam, so 570 00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,840 Speaker 2: to speak, where the curtain finally fell, and how do 571 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 2: you revie to the band? And then kind of what 572 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:03,720 Speaker 2: immediately happened? 573 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was a twofold thing. I was 574 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 1: really losing perspective on my ability to honestly function as 575 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:19,000 Speaker 1: the lead singer, and I was negating my responsibility of 576 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,319 Speaker 1: what was required not only spiritually but in regards to 577 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 1: vocally and songwriting. And as the vocalist, as the front man, 578 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,720 Speaker 1: and I was really running on fumes, running on empty 579 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 1: So a lot of the responsibilities that were meant to 580 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,279 Speaker 1: be mine as the lead singer were being negated to 581 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 1: other band members, where I was drastically mentally and feeling 582 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: like I was getting to a place where, you know, 583 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 1: I was this foundational member of this band, a front man, 584 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,160 Speaker 1: where now I'm feeling eventually like I'm nothing more than 585 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 1: dead weight. So there was a side of me that 586 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: I didn't want to let go of the position of 587 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 1: the play form, of the success of the lifestyle. But 588 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 1: I was being eaten alive on the inside body emptiness 589 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,879 Speaker 1: and hypocrisy of who I was becoming. So a part 590 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,120 Speaker 1: of me wanted to be exposed. Part of me wanted 591 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,360 Speaker 1: to stay hidden. Part of me wanted to be exposed 592 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 1: just to just so I don't have to carry the 593 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 1: guilt and the shame and the burden of this double life. 594 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:28,240 Speaker 1: And I remember we were in this Peter's the drummer, 595 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 1: and he was carrying a lot of the vocals now 596 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: unfortunately even in the studio, but we were at his 597 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 1: home and we were cutting a song, a new song 598 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:39,719 Speaker 1: for the new album, step up to the microphone, and 599 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:44,080 Speaker 1: it was a song called Entertaining Angels. And we took 600 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 1: a break and we're in the kitchen and I did 601 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:51,400 Speaker 1: the unthinkable, Mate. I think I decided I had resounded 602 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 1: in my heart that I was going to pull the 603 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,239 Speaker 1: trigger and let the cat out of the bag. And 604 00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,640 Speaker 1: I remember while we were taking a break at Peter's 605 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:00,799 Speaker 1: home in the kitchen, I just pulled him side and 606 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 1: I begin to pour out everything, and a lot of 607 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:08,880 Speaker 1: the stuff. I think it just stopped him in his 608 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 1: tracks because some of the things, personal things I shared 609 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:13,840 Speaker 1: that were going on in my life, it was it 610 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 1: was pretty devastating to him, and he was like, wow, okay. 611 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,919 Speaker 1: So we ended the conversation. We went back to work 612 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 1: and nothing was said, but I knew I had let 613 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,960 Speaker 1: let the cat out of the bag, so to speak. 614 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 1: And Peter was one of the foundational members like I was. 615 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 1: And so Peter went to our management and the next 616 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,160 Speaker 1: day or so, I was calling to the office and 617 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:42,880 Speaker 1: they just said, John, we can't have you on stage now, 618 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,399 Speaker 1: and you know, in this position anymore, with what you're 619 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,360 Speaker 1: going through, so we're going to force you to step 620 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:54,799 Speaker 1: down and resign. Boo it's out now, mate, there's no 621 00:39:54,880 --> 00:40:00,400 Speaker 1: there's no turning back now. And one side of me 622 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:07,919 Speaker 1: was incredibly relieved. But the other side, unfortunately, I think, 623 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 1: opened up a Pandora's box for me with now what 624 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 1: the enemy was going to implement in my life to 625 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,440 Speaker 1: take me down a toxic road, to rob, kill and 626 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 1: destroy because there was no one speaking into my life, 627 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 1: there was no accountability, There was no structure in my 628 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:30,080 Speaker 1: life to help me navigate through redemption and healing. So 629 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:35,759 Speaker 1: the weight was off, mate, the burden. I didn't have 630 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:40,640 Speaker 1: to hide anymore. So instead of tragically shorn, instead of 631 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 1: running to God, I ran in the opposite direction. 632 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,480 Speaker 2: Why don't want to tragically the thunder from the book? 633 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 2: But help people understand what level of two things? When 634 00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,239 Speaker 2: you really hit rock bottom? What does that mean? And 635 00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,720 Speaker 2: then that phone call you get from your wife, which 636 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 2: seems if it's not a miracle, it's awfully close to 637 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:12,200 Speaker 2: divine timing. So help us understand the rock bottom you hit. 638 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:13,040 Speaker 1: What that was like? 639 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 2: And then that car that was so significant? 640 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:21,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, sometimes it's even difficult to talk about 641 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,759 Speaker 1: opening and transparently, but you know, you get to a 642 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:29,440 Speaker 1: place where you're not that I ever didn't believe in God, 643 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:35,800 Speaker 1: or I didn't in some form still love God, but mate, 644 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:41,000 Speaker 1: like the enemy comes, Sin comes to rob, kill and destroy, 645 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 1: and the enemy takes you down a dark road. And 646 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:52,040 Speaker 1: I self medicated, Sean, escaping from reality and the responsibility 647 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,440 Speaker 1: that I should have manned up as a husband, as 648 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:59,080 Speaker 1: a father. I should have manned up and fell at 649 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,160 Speaker 1: the foot of the crawl and cried out to the 650 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:06,440 Speaker 1: Savior and repentance, but I chose not to, and I 651 00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:12,319 Speaker 1: self medicated through through alcohol and substance abuse. And you 652 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:16,560 Speaker 1: get to a place, Sean, of being so broken, so 653 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:21,960 Speaker 1: lost that even the most at one time, most rational, 654 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:27,000 Speaker 1: the most educated, the most solid, the most grounded person, 655 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,920 Speaker 1: when you start to walk down that road of destruction, 656 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:35,000 Speaker 1: you start to think thoughts now and contemplate things that before, 657 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:39,200 Speaker 1: in your sound mind, you you would never have even 658 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:43,520 Speaker 1: started to think about. You start thinking about the pain 659 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 1: will never end. There's no tomorrow, there's no hope. You 660 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:52,080 Speaker 1: are so broken and lost that the only way you're 661 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:56,440 Speaker 1: going to get any relief is by the tragic, tragic 662 00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:01,600 Speaker 1: lie of taking your own life. And you start contemplating 663 00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:05,200 Speaker 1: things Sean that honestly in your life before you would 664 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,920 Speaker 1: never in a million years think of something like that. 665 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:14,399 Speaker 1: But now the liar, the deceiver, the enemy is now 666 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,880 Speaker 1: has a foothold and a stronghold because you've opened up 667 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,799 Speaker 1: your life to him. Now you're contemplating thoughts that you 668 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,919 Speaker 1: never ever thought. And I remember there's that one night 669 00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:27,120 Speaker 1: where you refer to where made I. I was so 670 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:31,720 Speaker 1: on the bottom with no exit plan, no way out, 671 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:36,160 Speaker 1: and feeling the enemy just screaming accusation. 672 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:42,960 Speaker 3: You're you're a failure. You failed your wife, you failed 673 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:47,799 Speaker 3: your children, you failed your family, you failed your ministry, but. 674 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:53,480 Speaker 1: Most of all, you failed God. God. God loved you 675 00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,880 Speaker 1: and believed in you so much he gave you the 676 00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:59,719 Speaker 1: world as a platformed and an incredible minute. And this 677 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,400 Speaker 1: is how you say thank you, And and you start 678 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:07,200 Speaker 1: hearing this voice, the accusation so loud, it's like the 679 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:12,239 Speaker 1: constantly screaming that you decide, I'm going to end it. 680 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,000 Speaker 1: I'm going to end it. And I remember that dark 681 00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:20,000 Speaker 1: night where I had hit rock bottom shorre contemplating terrible 682 00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:23,440 Speaker 1: thoughts of ending things, and went out of the blue, 683 00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:27,680 Speaker 1: like you said, the phone rang and it was my 684 00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:32,239 Speaker 1: wife at the time, calling from the other side of 685 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,640 Speaker 1: the world with She had no idea what I was 686 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,839 Speaker 1: going through, but she had. You know what, that incredible 687 00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:46,560 Speaker 1: woman had a revelation, not in regards to the possibility 688 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:51,160 Speaker 1: of our marriage being restored, because I had totally destroyed 689 00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:55,560 Speaker 1: that woman as an abusive husband and a terrible She had 690 00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:59,440 Speaker 1: a revelation of the possibility of me going to an 691 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:04,400 Speaker 1: eternet without Christ going to Howe, and that scared her 692 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:09,400 Speaker 1: so much that the man she used to love, the 693 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:14,640 Speaker 1: father of her children, would go to hell. And that 694 00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,239 Speaker 1: was the motivation that coursed her to pick up the 695 00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:21,600 Speaker 1: phone and call me. And you took about divine like 696 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,600 Speaker 1: you said, intervention at her, calling it that exact moment, 697 00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:31,760 Speaker 1: and long story short, that conversation led to her warning 698 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,560 Speaker 1: me and telling me to come to come back to Australia. 699 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:36,719 Speaker 1: All she knew is that I had to get out 700 00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,000 Speaker 1: of that place, get out of America and get as 701 00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:43,200 Speaker 1: far as I could away from that world. And we're 702 00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:45,360 Speaker 1: better than the other side of the world with my 703 00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:49,440 Speaker 1: family in Australia. And I threw a bunch of excuses 704 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,160 Speaker 1: at her, Oh, it's the busy, I'll never get a ticket, 705 00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 1: it's too late, it's criblah, you know, one hundred and one. 706 00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:58,200 Speaker 1: And then she threw back and said, I've booked you 707 00:45:58,239 --> 00:45:59,239 Speaker 1: a ticket that leaves in. 708 00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,319 Speaker 2: A couple of days already. 709 00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:07,680 Speaker 1: Wow. So I helped on the plane and somehow I 710 00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,919 Speaker 1: don't even remember, Sean, it's a blur. I was so 711 00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,160 Speaker 1: intoxicated and it's a miracle. I don't even know how 712 00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,200 Speaker 1: they let me on the plane. Somehow I got on 713 00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:19,200 Speaker 1: the plane. I went back to Australia and I thought, 714 00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:23,080 Speaker 1: I'll go back and patch things up and get back 715 00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,839 Speaker 1: to America. I got to get back to America. Australia's 716 00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:28,640 Speaker 1: got nothing for me. Get back to America. I'm still 717 00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:31,960 Speaker 1: clinging on to the delusion of oh, don't you know 718 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:36,120 Speaker 1: who I am. I'm John James from the News Voice. Well, 719 00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:38,080 Speaker 1: actually no, I'm not with them, but I'm John James. 720 00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,480 Speaker 1: That was from the Newsboys. And I thought I would 721 00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:43,520 Speaker 1: go back to Australia a bit of a get away, 722 00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:46,440 Speaker 1: have a holiday and come back. Mate. When I went 723 00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:50,520 Speaker 1: back to Australia, through circumstances and situations, man, you talk 724 00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:55,640 Speaker 1: about God closed the door, and God, through his sovereignty, 725 00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:03,640 Speaker 1: saved my life and took me to the wilderness. To die. 726 00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:08,240 Speaker 1: He set me up, made and he made it impossible 727 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:10,960 Speaker 1: for me to come back to America at that time. 728 00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:15,520 Speaker 1: And it wasn't until years later that he saw fit 729 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,799 Speaker 1: according to his purpose and plan that he chose to 730 00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:23,279 Speaker 1: again bring me back here as a missionary. But Mate, 731 00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:25,000 Speaker 1: when I went back to Strange, I thought I had 732 00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,160 Speaker 1: it all planned out what I was going to Little 733 00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:28,680 Speaker 1: did I know that he was taking me to the 734 00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:31,080 Speaker 1: wilderness to die. That. 735 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:33,480 Speaker 2: There's so many twists and turns in your story, but 736 00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:35,799 Speaker 2: that call from your wife, I mean, given the way 737 00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,720 Speaker 2: you described that you treated her, she'd have been morally 738 00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:42,200 Speaker 2: justified and just never reaching out again. Yet it was 739 00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:47,080 Speaker 2: that moment, such a humble, loving thing to do. Like 740 00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,440 Speaker 2: I got goosebumps when I was reading that. But I 741 00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,640 Speaker 2: want to ask you one more part about your story 742 00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:56,600 Speaker 2: that I did not see coming was your father coming 743 00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:01,200 Speaker 2: to faith was unbelievable, man, and you had a similar 744 00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:05,040 Speaker 2: kind of experience that your father had that really helped 745 00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:07,279 Speaker 2: bring you back. Tell us about that. 746 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:11,439 Speaker 1: If you are, thank you for bringing that up even now. 747 00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:14,560 Speaker 1: Made the way you said that, in the way you 748 00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:19,440 Speaker 1: framed it just made me tear up. Mate, the testimony 749 00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:26,920 Speaker 1: of my dad and you know, the very person that 750 00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:31,960 Speaker 1: was responsible for utterly destroying my family, my biological dad. 751 00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:35,000 Speaker 1: Probably as a child, I thought the most wicked man 752 00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:39,080 Speaker 1: that I'd ever met, the very person that emotionally and 753 00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:44,279 Speaker 1: mentally physically shipwrecked my family. For years, the scars that 754 00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:48,839 Speaker 1: that man inflicted ran so deep sean. But that man 755 00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,719 Speaker 1: was the very vehicle God was going to use to 756 00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:56,560 Speaker 1: be a redemptive story that my dad, on the other 757 00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:00,440 Speaker 1: side of Australia had such an encounter, I mean at 758 00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,560 Speaker 1: the foot of the cross in repentance. You talk about 759 00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:07,799 Speaker 1: a road to Damascus experience, not just fool I had 760 00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:08,959 Speaker 1: a great experience. 761 00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:15,759 Speaker 5: It profoundly changed the course of my dad's life, so 762 00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:20,800 Speaker 5: profoundly and deeply that he changed, instantly, changed the direction 763 00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:21,840 Speaker 5: his life was going. 764 00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:24,600 Speaker 1: And he led his new wife to the Lord that 765 00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:28,080 Speaker 1: was my step mother that I'd never met. And then 766 00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,120 Speaker 1: he hopped on a plane and flew to where we 767 00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:33,719 Speaker 1: all lived in Australia, and he starts to lead you know, 768 00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:37,799 Speaker 1: his ex wife to the Lord, her new husband, my stepdad, 769 00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:41,880 Speaker 1: all my sisters, my brother to the Lord. Several of 770 00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:45,760 Speaker 1: them went on to be passes of wonderful churches in Australia. 771 00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:49,760 Speaker 1: It's you know, the very man that destroyed my family 772 00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:55,520 Speaker 1: was the vehicle that God used to be the redeeming 773 00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:01,000 Speaker 1: testimony of redemption to bring my whole family back together. 774 00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:03,640 Speaker 1: And you know, my dad went on to become my 775 00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:08,160 Speaker 1: great family's patriarch. If it wasn't for my biological dad, 776 00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:11,720 Speaker 1: my family would not have a future in the Kingdom 777 00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:15,799 Speaker 1: of God. And that's bizarre and God can do that. 778 00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:21,040 Speaker 1: My dad is one of the greatest men I've ever known, 779 00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:25,720 Speaker 1: one of the greatest role models and influencers in my life. 780 00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:28,440 Speaker 1: And as long as I live the Lord willing, I 781 00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:32,680 Speaker 1: will as many days as I left, I always shout 782 00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:37,160 Speaker 1: and boast about God of the impossible, how he redeemed 783 00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:41,719 Speaker 1: my family, saved my family through my dad. Come on. 784 00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:46,000 Speaker 1: And that's why I always encourage when my wife and 785 00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:49,920 Speaker 1: I speak, especially when I'm speaking to men at men's events, 786 00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:53,560 Speaker 1: I encourage we men to say, how dare we sit 787 00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:57,440 Speaker 1: there in our brokenness and dysfunction and tell God what 788 00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:00,839 Speaker 1: he can and can't do with our mess, what God 789 00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:04,840 Speaker 1: can and can't do with our lives. So my dad 790 00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:09,840 Speaker 1: was the most wonderful influential person in my life. He's 791 00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:13,880 Speaker 1: gone home to be with the Lord. Now, I'll never forget. 792 00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:17,480 Speaker 1: My dad used to say to me, son, never give 793 00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:22,120 Speaker 1: up on people, no matter how broken, no matter how lost, 794 00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:27,239 Speaker 1: no matter how far they may seem from God. My 795 00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:30,960 Speaker 1: dad used to say, if that person has a heartbeat, 796 00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:35,160 Speaker 1: then there's hope. My dad used to say that heartbeat 797 00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:39,600 Speaker 1: is like a prayer that says hope, hope, hope. My 798 00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:43,080 Speaker 1: dad used to say, Son, you can't change the past. 799 00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:47,200 Speaker 1: We all have a yesterday, we all have scars, we 800 00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:50,479 Speaker 1: all have a past, we were all sinners. You can't 801 00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,760 Speaker 1: change the past. But just like the Bible says, today 802 00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:58,239 Speaker 1: is the day of salvation. Today his mercy is renewed 803 00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,960 Speaker 1: and new afresh. He's good. Today is the day that 804 00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:06,480 Speaker 1: the Lord has made Man. I missed my dad so much, 805 00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:10,959 Speaker 1: and both my biological mom and dad have gone home 806 00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:14,360 Speaker 1: to be with the Lord now. But what a profound 807 00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:18,000 Speaker 1: influence that man had on my family. 808 00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:22,359 Speaker 2: Ah, but God, John, you're moving me to tears, man 809 00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:26,440 Speaker 2: thinking about my own dad, because Yeah, I'm from the US, 810 00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:29,960 Speaker 2: you're from Australia. You can sing. I got zero singing skills, 811 00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:33,080 Speaker 2: But we have in common that we have dads from 812 00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:35,200 Speaker 2: broken backgrounds. 813 00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:36,080 Speaker 1: Wow. 814 00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:39,360 Speaker 2: You know my father's story of there was second abuse 815 00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:43,440 Speaker 2: that was there. There was an alcoholic father, a sister 816 00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:46,960 Speaker 2: who took their own life, my dad's dad saying to him, 817 00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:50,480 Speaker 2: you know, you were a mistake, and my dad being 818 00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:53,920 Speaker 2: radically transformed by Christ, and it was a little reverse. 819 00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:57,560 Speaker 2: He was able to love his dad supernaturally and see 820 00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:01,200 Speaker 2: his father come to Christ. My grandfather who I never met, 821 00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:03,840 Speaker 2: my mom never met him because he died from a 822 00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:06,640 Speaker 2: life of alcoholism, but led about one hundred people in 823 00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:09,279 Speaker 2: his small town in Michigan to Christ because he just 824 00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:13,960 Speaker 2: was so dramatically changed. And I think the same way 825 00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:17,160 Speaker 2: about my dad that you do your So I had 826 00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:18,880 Speaker 2: a bunch of other questions I want to ask you, 827 00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:22,360 Speaker 2: but I think this is such a good point to 828 00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:25,440 Speaker 2: kind of bring your story full circle. But let me 829 00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:30,839 Speaker 2: end with this last story or this last question. We've 830 00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:34,360 Speaker 2: talked a lot about people deconstructing their faith. You shared 831 00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:37,400 Speaker 2: your story of falling away, and really the theme of 832 00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:39,719 Speaker 2: your book and your life and every answer is God, 833 00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:42,799 Speaker 2: don't give up on people. God can redeem. You have 834 00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:46,120 Speaker 2: a song you now sing called God of the Second Chance. 835 00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:50,320 Speaker 2: So anybody watching this right now and is like I failed. 836 00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:55,040 Speaker 2: Is their redemption for me? Let me tell you there is. 837 00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:58,480 Speaker 2: And John James' story proclaims this. So maybe share this 838 00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,400 Speaker 2: story with them, get a copy of Newsboy, give it 839 00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:05,760 Speaker 2: to them. But what would your advice be for influencers? 840 00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:10,879 Speaker 2: Because when you started, there were some gatekeepers. There were 841 00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:15,279 Speaker 2: people who put on tours, you had a manager, there 842 00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:21,400 Speaker 2: were people albums. There were some gatekeepers that were there. Now, 843 00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:25,839 Speaker 2: with social media and YouTube and other platforms, there's literally 844 00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,920 Speaker 2: no gatekeepers at all. What advice would you give to 845 00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:31,759 Speaker 2: young Christians? And I mean someone who wants to be 846 00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:34,040 Speaker 2: a writer, Maybe someone wants to be a speaker or 847 00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:37,760 Speaker 2: an apologist, wants to be an influencer in some fashion, 848 00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:41,120 Speaker 2: what would your advice be for them? 849 00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:48,000 Speaker 1: Find a father, find a mother, find a mentor find 850 00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:53,719 Speaker 1: somebody that could speak into your life. You know, I 851 00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:58,000 Speaker 1: turned sixty two this year, Sean, and I'm embarking on 852 00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:01,200 Speaker 1: the most incredible va centure of my life with this 853 00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:05,760 Speaker 1: new season, with the book and music. The first music 854 00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:09,439 Speaker 1: I've done in thirty years made you talk about God 855 00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:12,600 Speaker 1: a second chance. For thirty years, I said I'll never 856 00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:15,480 Speaker 1: sing again, and I never did. I was so broken 857 00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:18,120 Speaker 1: and about a year and a half ago, God re 858 00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:23,879 Speaker 1: breathed on that area. But I have people, mate, that's 859 00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:28,200 Speaker 1: speaking of my life, that people that I'm accountable to, 860 00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:33,439 Speaker 1: people who believe in me and champion me and help 861 00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:39,280 Speaker 1: me to stay grounded. It's such a bizarre world today. 862 00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:43,120 Speaker 1: You know, for thirty years, mate, I lived on an island. 863 00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:46,440 Speaker 1: In regards to social media, I just in the last 864 00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:50,360 Speaker 1: couple of months, I've just started getting on social media. 865 00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:52,440 Speaker 1: I'm like a fishy out of water. When I was 866 00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:56,000 Speaker 1: at the news was this world never existed. But I 867 00:55:56,040 --> 00:56:03,880 Speaker 1: realized the incredible platform and influence people have today. Everyone 868 00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:07,080 Speaker 1: has a platform of influence now because of the Internet 869 00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:12,279 Speaker 1: and social media. I want to encourage people. When Jesus 870 00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:15,719 Speaker 1: spoke to the crowd, and it was their version of 871 00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:19,320 Speaker 1: social media back then, with the Pharisees and the different 872 00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:23,680 Speaker 1: ones in the street markets that used to say long prayers, 873 00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:27,719 Speaker 1: that was their version of social media back then. And 874 00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:32,520 Speaker 1: Jesus wasn't against the proclaiming of the word or to 875 00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:37,120 Speaker 1: preaching in the marketplace. He called out the Pharisees because 876 00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:41,480 Speaker 1: of the hypocrisy of their heart. There's things about social 877 00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:45,080 Speaker 1: media today that I just don't get. I don't understand I, 878 00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:47,680 Speaker 1: Like I said, I feel like a fish out of water. 879 00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:51,960 Speaker 1: But I realized that social media in its essence is 880 00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:55,880 Speaker 1: a powerful tool, but the importance to keep things in perspective. 881 00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,800 Speaker 1: Just like Jesus said to the crowd about the hearts 882 00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:02,440 Speaker 1: of the Pharisees, that are all about show about me 883 00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:06,960 Speaker 1: myself and look at I. We all have the responsibility 884 00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:11,000 Speaker 1: more than ever of the authenticity and the integrity of 885 00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:15,120 Speaker 1: our hearts. Why are we doing this? Are our podcasts? 886 00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:19,480 Speaker 1: Are our shows? Is it all about the algorithm? Is 887 00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:22,880 Speaker 1: it all about how many subscribers, how many likes, how 888 00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:26,400 Speaker 1: many followers, how many thumbs up? Now I get all 889 00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:29,360 Speaker 1: those things and they can help us get the message out. 890 00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:33,680 Speaker 1: But I want to encourage listeners. Would you still do 891 00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:39,880 Speaker 1: what you do if barely anyone watched? I mean, if 892 00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:42,320 Speaker 1: you're only reaching one or two people, would you be 893 00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:46,400 Speaker 1: just as passionate? You know, sometimes we feel social media 894 00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:49,320 Speaker 1: we can use it to praise the good Lord. Hey, 895 00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:52,040 Speaker 1: I want to praise God because he used me to 896 00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:55,080 Speaker 1: feed all these poor people. All glory to God. But 897 00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:58,040 Speaker 1: here is me feeding the poor and it goes all 898 00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:03,720 Speaker 1: over social media. My question is if you never posted 899 00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:05,919 Speaker 1: that on social media, and the only one who saw 900 00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:10,520 Speaker 1: that was the Lord. Would you still do it? So 901 00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:13,920 Speaker 1: it comes back to always sean with what you do 902 00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:20,080 Speaker 1: with your platform, with my platform. Now the authenticity of 903 00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:23,280 Speaker 1: the motivation of the heart behind why we do it. 904 00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:27,120 Speaker 1: So I say to young influencers, get a mentor, get 905 00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:30,800 Speaker 1: a dad, get a mom, get somebody that can be 906 00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:36,640 Speaker 1: that foundational safety net speaking into our lives, encouraging us. 907 00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:40,280 Speaker 1: But always, mate, be so mindful of the attitude of 908 00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:44,000 Speaker 1: the heart of why we do what we do. Keep 909 00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:45,680 Speaker 1: that heart and check a mate. 910 00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:49,440 Speaker 2: Amen. The heart is the wellspring of light, you know, 911 00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:52,680 Speaker 2: get wisdom and protect your heart. One of my mentors, 912 00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:55,960 Speaker 2: Jay Warner Wallace, said the very instan thing to me. 913 00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:59,200 Speaker 2: He's like, would you do what you do if there 914 00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:01,440 Speaker 2: was no audience and people didn't watch? And it was 915 00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:05,080 Speaker 2: such a good heart gut check for me. Who is 916 00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:09,360 Speaker 2: my audience? Why do I do what I do? And 917 00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:14,360 Speaker 2: that encouragement to young influence influencers is huge. Thanks for 918 00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:16,440 Speaker 2: sharing that, by the way, and that that's one reason 919 00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:20,320 Speaker 2: I love teaching. I teach an apologetics program at Talbot 920 00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:22,800 Speaker 2: School Theology, and I have a lot of people who 921 00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:26,280 Speaker 2: want to come study apologetics theology, and it's a way 922 00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:30,600 Speaker 2: of mentoring people over meal, over zoom and class. And 923 00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:33,400 Speaker 2: so people are watching this going okay, I need some 924 00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:38,120 Speaker 2: theological depth. Come study with us at Talbot. I would 925 00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:41,400 Speaker 2: love to be a mentor to influence you in your life. 926 00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:43,120 Speaker 2: That's true for everybody. We have students who are in 927 00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:49,080 Speaker 2: their seventies, but especially younger. Come on, John, you know. 928 00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:49,840 Speaker 1: What's funny showing? 929 00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:50,040 Speaker 5: Oh? 930 00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:53,320 Speaker 1: Please, when can I it's funny. I didn't mean to 931 00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:56,080 Speaker 1: just throw another thing in. You know when Jesus was 932 00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:58,520 Speaker 1: went to the wilderness for the first time to fast, 933 00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:01,440 Speaker 1: when he's first fast for the four days, and it's 934 01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:03,640 Speaker 1: funny when the enemy come to tempting. We know the 935 01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:07,360 Speaker 1: scriptures so well, three times every time the way he 936 01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:13,440 Speaker 1: combated the attack of the enemy, well it is written, amen, 937 01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:17,560 Speaker 1: every time without fail. I think the enemy would love 938 01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:21,720 Speaker 1: nothing better in America, in Christendom, in the Church in America. 939 01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:24,320 Speaker 1: If there was a generation on the earth today that 940 01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:29,360 Speaker 1: were illiterate. Oh sure, we know the latest statistics and 941 01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:32,640 Speaker 1: the latest is and the latest podcast and the ladisers say, 942 01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:37,040 Speaker 1: but in regards to alliterate, in regards to what what 943 01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:40,960 Speaker 1: does it is written? Say now? You can have an opinion. 944 01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:44,400 Speaker 1: We all have opinions, but as long as my opinion 945 01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:49,720 Speaker 1: doesn't supersede what it is written says. And the only 946 01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:52,200 Speaker 1: way we're going to know what is it is written 947 01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:57,919 Speaker 1: says is if we're all avid, passionate students of the Word, 948 01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:03,880 Speaker 1: disciples of the world, spending the time, mate, spending the 949 01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:08,880 Speaker 1: time just studying God's word and allowing God to teach 950 01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:12,280 Speaker 1: us and show us. And you know, I one day 951 01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:15,240 Speaker 1: we're all going to stand before the Lord. And you 952 01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:19,280 Speaker 1: know I haven't always gotten things right in my life, 953 01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:23,120 Speaker 1: but God's not finished with me yet, and I am 954 01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:27,600 Speaker 1: doing my best to finish well. Lord. I can't change yesterday, 955 01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:31,640 Speaker 1: but today I make a decision every day when I 956 01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:34,440 Speaker 1: wake up God, I want to live a life today 957 01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:38,040 Speaker 1: that brings honor and glory to You, because one day, 958 01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:41,160 Speaker 1: when I stand before God made all, I want to 959 01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:44,360 Speaker 1: hear as well done, incredibly little handsome ball men with 960 01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:48,800 Speaker 1: an accent, I don't want to hear I depart from me. 961 01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:52,520 Speaker 1: I never knew you, and you know I always encourage folks, 962 01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:56,480 Speaker 1: I say, you know, I understand so many people today 963 01:01:57,280 --> 01:02:01,000 Speaker 1: in the church are passionate about different things. But if 964 01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:03,800 Speaker 1: you want to get it right. Be somebody that is 965 01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:07,840 Speaker 1: passionate and deliberate about living a life that bears good fruit, 966 01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:11,600 Speaker 1: because you're never going to hear the Lord say to 967 01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:15,480 Speaker 1: anybody in heaven one day depart from me. You bore 968 01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:19,760 Speaker 1: way too much fruit for me. Hey, but you know 969 01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:22,240 Speaker 1: what his response to other people who said, hey, well, 970 01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:25,400 Speaker 1: I had a huge I did this, and I did miracles, 971 01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:28,440 Speaker 1: and I prophesied, and I heal the sick and cast 972 01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:31,960 Speaker 1: out demons. I had a massive music ministry, I had 973 01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:35,840 Speaker 1: a massive church. I had a massive following on social media. 974 01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:39,280 Speaker 1: That means nothing to God. I never knew you. So 975 01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:44,360 Speaker 1: let's learn to be trees that are passionate and mindful 976 01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:48,680 Speaker 1: about bearing fruit, made good fruit. I love it. 977 01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:52,080 Speaker 2: That is a wonderful message to end on. That's the 978 01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:54,840 Speaker 2: story of your life. That's a story in your book, Newsboy, 979 01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:58,000 Speaker 2: and folks pick up a copy. I think you can 980 01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:00,280 Speaker 2: preorder it now. It's not out for a while, but 981 01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:02,720 Speaker 2: this is one I'll be talking about sharing with folks 982 01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:06,240 Speaker 2: for a while because it's honest, it's heartfelt, awesome and 983 01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:07,680 Speaker 2: just a wonderful story. 984 01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:11,040 Speaker 1: So can I let folks know? Can I let folks 985 01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:15,400 Speaker 1: know about the book. Like you said, it's on Amazon. 986 01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:18,680 Speaker 1: You can get the book. It's released June second, but 987 01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:21,600 Speaker 1: they're taking pre orders. But what my wife and I 988 01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:25,000 Speaker 1: have been doing we just to thank folks for ordering 989 01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:27,960 Speaker 1: the book how much we appreciate their support to get 990 01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:30,400 Speaker 1: the message out. We're saying the folks, if you pre 991 01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:33,920 Speaker 1: ordered a book, go to our website and email us 992 01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:36,320 Speaker 1: a screenshot of your order, and we'll give you a 993 01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:39,440 Speaker 1: link to download my brand new album that's not even 994 01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:42,280 Speaker 1: the out yet, for free. So we've had so many people 995 01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:47,520 Speaker 1: downloading God of the whole album, all eleven songs, absolutely free, 996 01:03:48,040 --> 01:03:50,240 Speaker 1: just because they ordered the book to say thank you. 997 01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:54,240 Speaker 2: Amazing, super cool, What a great bonus for people forgetting it. 998 01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:57,240 Speaker 2: That's a great way to motivate and blessed people in an 999 01:03:57,200 --> 01:04:01,240 Speaker 2: album that was thirty years in the meet. So you 1000 01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:04,240 Speaker 2: should rightly be super super proud of that. John, This 1001 01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:07,320 Speaker 2: is a lot of fun, thoroughly enjoyed. This brings back 1002 01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:09,919 Speaker 2: a lot of memories for me. Thanks for writing an 1003 01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:14,800 Speaker 2: honest book. And you are exactly the same enthusiastic, charismatic, 1004 01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:17,960 Speaker 2: interesting person I remember. So let's try to do it 1005 01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:18,720 Speaker 2: again sometime. 1006 01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:22,720 Speaker 1: Bless you. Mane have a brilliant day. See you brother, 1007 01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:24,439 Speaker 1: see you mane. 1008 01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:27,360 Speaker 2: Hey friends, if you enjoyed this show, please hit that 1009 01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:30,400 Speaker 2: fall button on your podcast app. Most of you tuning 1010 01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:32,800 Speaker 2: in haven't done this yet and it makes a huge 1011 01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:35,560 Speaker 2: difference in helping us reach and equit more people and 1012 01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:40,000 Speaker 2: build community. And please consider leaving a podcast review. Every 1013 01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:43,320 Speaker 2: review helps. Thanks for listening to The Sean McDowell Show, 1014 01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:47,280 Speaker 2: brought to you by Talbot School of Theology at Biola University, 1015 01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:50,640 Speaker 2: where we have on campus and online programs and apologetic 1016 01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:53,959 Speaker 2: spiritual information, marriage and family, Bible, and so much more. 1017 01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:54,720 Speaker 1: We would love to. 1018 01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:58,000 Speaker 2: Train you to more effectively live, teach, and defend the 1019 01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:00,440 Speaker 2: Christian faith today and we will see you when the 1020 01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:01,800 Speaker 2: next episode drops. 1021 01:05:03,560 --> 01:05:05,320 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm mmm 1022 01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:08,439 Speaker 4: Mm hmm