Speaker 1: Life audio. Stranger Things is Netflix's most popular TV series ever,
Speaker 1: with over one point two billion views. Why has this
Speaker 1: show been so popular? What did it get right? Why
Speaker 1: did it get wrong? What might agen Zer, my son Scotti,
Speaker 1: and agen Xer think about it? Given that this show
Speaker 1: was made for gen X and for gen Z, thought
Speaker 1: I'd bring my son on to break down me. You ready,
Speaker 1: rock and roll? Let's do it all right? So before
Speaker 1: we jump in, let's just briefly talk about what Stranger
Speaker 1: Things is about. It starts in November nineteen eighty three,
Speaker 1: and by the way, I was about seven years old
Speaker 1: when this show is placed in and it's a group
Speaker 1: of boys who are playing dungeons and dragons at the beginning.
Speaker 1: But what happens is in this small town, these seemingly
Speaker 1: supernatural things start to take place. There's kidnappings, there's appearance
Speaker 1: of a monster. There's clearly this seemingly super natural realm
Speaker 1: breaking through. And as we moved through five seasons, we
Speaker 1: learn more and more about this realm breaking into Hawkins, Indiana,
Speaker 1: and how the kids respond and defeat the bad guys.
Speaker 1: Anything you'd add, just in terms of quickly what this
Speaker 1: show is about. I think you actually nailed it. I
Speaker 1: think it's perfect, all right. So what I want to
Speaker 1: know from you is, I'm really curious. It is fascinating
Speaker 1: that this show is written with two audiences in mind,
Speaker 1: a little bit like Cobra Kai, which hit my generation
Speaker 1: watching Cobra you know, watching cry to Kid as a kid,
Speaker 1: and then your generation that's new. It's kind of written
Speaker 1: for both generations. Again, one point two billion views, which
Speaker 1: is insane. Why do you think this show has been
Speaker 1: so popular?
Speaker 2: One, I remember, I think I was in seventh grade
Speaker 2: when this show came out, and there was just something
Speaker 2: different about it. For one, it was Netflix's first Netflix
Speaker 2: branded show. Right when it came out on Netflix, people
Speaker 2: were like, what is this? Netflix is making TV shows now,
Speaker 2: so remember that. But there's also there was this mystery
Speaker 2: is horror, especially from season one, and also the kids.
Speaker 2: My generation was really able to resonate with the kids
Speaker 2: because frankly, we were like the same age. I think
Speaker 2: they're a little bit younger in the show, but the actors'
Speaker 2: ages were about the same age that I was, So
Speaker 2: I could see myself as those kids right taking place
Speaker 2: in the eighties where you were as a kid. And
Speaker 2: I think that that really gravitated and there was just
Speaker 2: so many questions that this show brought up, and honestly,
Speaker 2: it really captivated our generation.
Speaker 1: So do you think for your generation, Like one of
Speaker 1: the things I enjoyed is a dad was showing you
Speaker 1: some of the TV shows and movies that were meaningful
Speaker 1: to me as a kid. I remember the first time
Speaker 1: I showed you Star Wars, sitting in our bedroom, telling
Speaker 1: your mom, we're watching Star Wars. I don't know, maybe
Speaker 1: I can't remember, maybe you're eight or ten years old,
Speaker 1: whatever it was. Some of the other shows like Karate Kid,
Speaker 1: some of these shows I've shared with you. It's a
Speaker 1: fun thing parents do with their kids. Is this show
Speaker 1: meaningful enough to you and your generation that when you
Speaker 1: have kids some day you'll want to show them this
Speaker 1: or would you not rank it quite that high? I
Speaker 1: would have.
Speaker 2: For the first three seasons, I absolutely loved this show.
Speaker 2: The last two seasons to me, were a massive disappointment
Speaker 2: that honestly, I think I will show my kids it,
Speaker 2: but it didn't hold the gravity that the first three
Speaker 2: seasons had, and it was a really big letdown for me.
Speaker 2: But one of the reasons why I absolutely like Love
Speaker 2: Stranger Things was I think for our generation, right when
Speaker 2: you look at it, For you guys got you grew up.
Speaker 1: You had Star Wars and original movie.
Speaker 2: You had Indiana Jones, you had Rambo, you had Rocky,
Speaker 2: all those different movies.
Speaker 1: Our generation doesn't have a lot of original movies.
Speaker 2: What we have is TV shows, right, And so what
Speaker 2: we loved about Strangers Things was this is an entire
Speaker 2: original cast. A lot of the actors were also not
Speaker 2: people that we really knew about, right, Even the mom Joyce.
Speaker 2: I knew she was a big eighty star, but we
Speaker 2: didn't really know who she was, right. And all these
Speaker 2: kids came out of nowhere, and honestly, we just fell
Speaker 2: in love with them. And they're all still one of
Speaker 2: the most famous stars to this day. All of them
Speaker 2: have millions and millions of followers, and I think they're
Speaker 2: all pretty good actors.
Speaker 1: So you did hit on in part why this show
Speaker 1: is so popular is that it simultaneously reaches two demographics.
Speaker 1: The Duffer brothers actually had said that they were not
Speaker 1: writing this for kids, They're writing it for adults. But
Speaker 1: I think some of the language of and the dialogue
Speaker 1: appeals more to kids than it does to adults. But
Speaker 1: nonetheless it's the story of these young kids bonding together.
Speaker 1: But it also for my generation. You know, I grew
Speaker 1: up roughly around that time, so I remember hanging out
Speaker 1: at malls. Of course, I remember all the songs that
Speaker 1: they had. I remember the dress, and they did a
Speaker 1: good job as a whole of painting what the eighties
Speaker 1: felt like leaving at home telling your parents. I remember
Speaker 1: I would just take off on my bike and I'd
Speaker 1: tell your Granmy. I was like, you know, I'll be
Speaker 1: back at dinner, and she was fine with that in
Speaker 1: a small town, you know, California, not in Indiana. So
Speaker 1: I think they found a way to reach two generations.
Speaker 1: When you just think about shows that people are drawn
Speaker 1: to Netflix as a whole, had that and we'll get
Speaker 1: to some of our critique. But the characters are obviously
Speaker 1: lovable and likable. I mean some of the characters like Dustin,
Speaker 1: some of the characters like Steve, I thought were fantastic.
Speaker 1: There's intrigue, there's mystery. I mean that first season when
Speaker 1: you figured out what are these demo organs? It was
Speaker 1: kind of scary. Like I remember, I wanted almost like
Speaker 1: twenty four, wanting to watch the next episode in the
Speaker 1: next episode What's gonna happen? And they did a brilliant
Speaker 1: job of just kind of unfolding the story over time,
Speaker 1: at least for the three seasons. So simply from a
Speaker 1: storytelling perspective and a character perspective, I see why the
Speaker 1: story has been so popular. It makes it makes sense
Speaker 1: to me. Okay, so let's take a minute and talk
Speaker 1: about what do you think the show got right? And
Speaker 1: I'm curious, and after that come back to what do
Speaker 1: you think the show got wrong? So do you One
Speaker 1: of the things I try to do is when I
Speaker 1: watch films, and obviously like this one, there's plenty I
Speaker 1: disagree with, and plenty will get to the critique. But
Speaker 1: as a Christian, I want to start with common ground.
Speaker 1: I want to start with a positive and I don't
Speaker 1: want to be that rage bait taking Christian always being
Speaker 1: critical of everything. I don't think that's charitable and I
Speaker 1: don't think it's helpful. And I do think this show
Speaker 1: got a lot of things right. So tell me as
Speaker 1: you see it what you think you tick got right.
Speaker 2: I think one of the biggest things that got right
Speaker 2: was the characters. I think all the original characters you
Speaker 2: actually cared about. And characters that they brought on in
Speaker 2: season two and in season three, right, that were new.
Speaker 2: You actually were invested in those characters, right. I think
Speaker 2: they had such good character development throughout the seasons. The relationships, right,
Speaker 2: like you're like, Okay, Steven Dustin are now friends in
Speaker 2: season three, right that they weren't in the first season.
Speaker 1: And all these different characters.
Speaker 2: I think that they absolutely just captivated me, right, especially
Speaker 2: just as a younger a younger guy, right that the
Speaker 2: four main guys that were the head of the show.
Speaker 2: And honestly, I just I loved and I attached myself
Speaker 2: onto them. I could see my bits and pieces of
Speaker 2: myself in each one of those characters, especially as a kid. Right.
Speaker 2: I remember I loved when you would talk about you know,
Speaker 2: oh man, I grew up in a small town.
Speaker 1: I remember all those little things.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: That's one of the reasons why I absolutely loved this show.
Speaker 2: So one of the things I think they one hundred
Speaker 2: percent nailed was the characters, and through at least season three,
Speaker 2: the characters that they brought on, whether it was Max,
Speaker 2: whether it was Eddie, all those different characters, I think
Speaker 2: that they killed it.
Speaker 1: I'd be really interested to see if you already watch
Speaker 1: this as an adult having seen it as a kid,
Speaker 1: if you'll process it differently, because sometimes I go back
Speaker 1: to shows I saw as a kid and either I'm like,
Speaker 1: I can't believe I ever liked that, or I see
Speaker 1: it through a different lens. So you and I recently
Speaker 1: were talking about watching sixth Sense and that show. I
Speaker 1: loved it when it came out, am not m Night Shyamalan.
Speaker 1: I mean, that is a brilliant, just epic film. But
Speaker 1: when you watch that as a parent, it was harrowing
Speaker 1: to me through an entirely different lens of just the
Speaker 1: horror that that young boy went through and how he's
Speaker 1: torn of like do I tell the truth or do
Speaker 1: I lie to my mom so she won't think I'm
Speaker 1: crazy and reject me. You see it through a lens
Speaker 1: different when your parent. Partly what the show did is
Speaker 1: it appeals to kids who want to be a venturous
Speaker 1: they want to fight the bad guy, they just want
Speaker 1: to be a part of some epic journey. And also
Speaker 1: I think appeals to this rebellious spirit that kids have.
Speaker 1: And of course the last speech by Dusty at the
Speaker 1: end of season five, we didn't say this. By the way,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be some spoilers here. We should have said
Speaker 1: this at the beginning. But the season you know, the
Speaker 1: piece at the end where he just tells off the principle.
Speaker 1: It appeals to so many things with kids. But I
Speaker 1: also watch this through the lens of a parent. I
Speaker 1: watched this going, oh, my goodness, if my son was
Speaker 1: Will who gets kidnapped and is being terrorized by this demigorgan,
Speaker 1: I view it very, very differently as a parent. I
Speaker 1: think they found a way to capture parents' fears, parents' concerns,
Speaker 1: what would interest jen xers like myself that are now
Speaker 1: looking back, but also appeal to gen z And that's
Speaker 1: not easy to do. I can only think of a
Speaker 1: handful of shows that have actually done that. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: would add to that.
Speaker 2: I think they did a brilliant job, especially in season
Speaker 2: one with Joyce. I mean, you saw the pain that
Speaker 2: she went through when she was the only one that
Speaker 2: believed that Will was still alive. Even his brother Jonathan
Speaker 2: right was just like, Mom, he's dead. I remember that scene.
Speaker 2: It was like, Mom, he's dead, move on, come to
Speaker 2: the funeral, right, be there with me? And She's like, no,
Speaker 2: my son is still out there. So resonated with that,
Speaker 2: But then it was also with Hopper's character. Hopper was
Speaker 2: my favorite character throughout the show because you saw the
Speaker 2: turmoil he went through and he took on Elle as
Speaker 2: a daughter because he lost his right. And so I
Speaker 2: see exactly what you're saying. I think I will watch
Speaker 2: it differently as a parent, but I do I agree
Speaker 2: with you one hundred percent. I think that they did
Speaker 2: that right as through a parent's eyes, watching Joy, watching Hopper,
Speaker 2: watching those parents. Now, I do think it is interesting,
Speaker 2: especially some of the younger seasons. Besides the main adults,
Speaker 2: some of the other adults are like idiots almost, and
Speaker 2: they ta hate that picture to make it sound like idiots, right,
Speaker 2: Like the Wheelers, Mike's parents and the first couple seasons
Speaker 2: are like idiots. They always get it wrong. Especially Dad,
Speaker 2: He's just like there, he's an idiot. I remember there's
Speaker 2: the scene where the police are interrogating him.
Speaker 1: He goes, don't you know that? He's like, I believe
Speaker 1: that I'd know that my son was hiding a eleven
Speaker 1: year old girl in her house. I think i'd know.
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, she's been there the whole show, hiding in their basement,
Speaker 2: and so there's just a couple there's a couple of
Speaker 2: factors that I see with the parents that they were
Speaker 2: trying to paint them as idiots. Honestly, sometimes as a
Speaker 2: coming to age show, that's kind of like, I don't know,
Speaker 2: not fun to see, but it was just like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: the kids are right.
Speaker 1: The kids are the ones that are right. How much
Speaker 1: were you emotionally attached to this show because I think
Speaker 1: you see these kids, I don't know how well they were,
Speaker 1: and I think they're of different ages, but it feels
Speaker 1: like they're ten to twelve years old roughly when this
Speaker 1: thing starts, and then you know at the end, and
Speaker 1: I think some of the actors were actually maybe in
Speaker 1: their thirties past time it ended. But the way the
Speaker 1: story paints, you know, they're eighteen years old, graduate from
Speaker 1: high school, and we see him come to age. And
Speaker 1: I remember the time where even Will like wants them
Speaker 1: to play dungeons and dragons and he wants to hang
Speaker 1: on to his childhood, and yet they're like, we've moved
Speaker 1: past that, we don't do that anymore. And I remember
Speaker 1: kind of feeling that a little bit of like now
Speaker 1: as a parent, I'm watching this going, oh my goodness,
Speaker 1: I remember that stage with my kids growing up and
Speaker 1: leaving that. And of course I had the two of
Speaker 1: you in college. You're both at bay All, you're young,
Speaker 1: you're younger brothers, like thirteen, So he's just he's leaving
Speaker 1: that boy of stage becoming a man. So it tapped
Speaker 1: into me remembering my own childhood, but also watching it
Speaker 1: as a parent. Now, by the time they got to
Speaker 1: the last season, We'll come to this, I had somewhat
Speaker 1: emotionally disconnected. They took so long. I don't love the
Speaker 1: way it ended, But how emotionally connected were you to
Speaker 1: some of the characters or do you let honestly just
Speaker 1: moved on from that. Early on, I was extremely invested.
Speaker 2: I believe in season three I was in high school
Speaker 2: and the actors and the show were in high school.
Speaker 1: So I was extremely invested.
Speaker 2: Right. I was like, man, this could beat me and
Speaker 2: my friends, right, like we just found some random girl
Speaker 2: in the woods, Like this could have been us, you know.
Speaker 1: So that was super interesting to watch.
Speaker 2: But as the seasons got later on, and honestly, there's
Speaker 2: multiple year time gaps in real life when watching it,
Speaker 2: I became less invested. I just believe that they lost
Speaker 2: the gravity of the show, and they also just lost
Speaker 2: I think where they were going. I think if you
Speaker 2: watched season one and then say you didn't watch anything
Speaker 2: in the middle, and you watched season five, you're like, how.
Speaker 1: Did we get from point A to point B? It
Speaker 1: just doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2: I believe honestly that season one could have been its
Speaker 2: own spin off show just in itself. Right, you just
Speaker 2: watched season one and they just were like, this is
Speaker 2: just a one off show, almost like a true detective
Speaker 2: that this is what it is, right, But they obviously
Speaker 2: decided to do more, and I believe that seasons one, two,
Speaker 2: and three were great. When you watch season four and
Speaker 2: your five, you're like, how did we get here? It
Speaker 2: was almost like there was this this could actually happen
Speaker 2: in season one. I don't know if it was almost
Speaker 2: like a yes, there's some fantastical stuff too. Sure, it
Speaker 2: was almost like this could happen season four and five.
Speaker 2: I'm like, Okay, we're just so far gone. The preaching
Speaker 2: at us like they're just there was too there was
Speaker 2: too much going on.
Speaker 1: But what a story has to have is internal plausibility. Right,
Speaker 1: we knew this wasn't gonna actually happen, but it felt plausible,
Speaker 1: it felt believable for the first three seasons. Is part
Speaker 1: of your argument. Okay, so I'm want to talk about
Speaker 1: the worldview behind it, but I don't want to miss
Speaker 1: what the show got right is in some ways one
Speaker 1: of the things that I appreciate about it. Maybe I'll
Speaker 1: get some criticism for this, but I like the Duffer
Speaker 1: Brothers created a It's a brilliant TV show. I don't
Speaker 1: again love the way to end. It will come to that,
Speaker 1: but there's brilliant themes in this. There's a great some
Speaker 1: of the heroes are great. I think Hopper was a
Speaker 1: great character in this. He's kind of a father figure
Speaker 1: for a generation that's in many ways yearning for a father.
Speaker 1: I think that's a piece of what's going on. I
Speaker 1: think they got the monster was cool. Like when you
Speaker 1: learn about the Demogorgans, it's like, WHOA, this is crazy.
Speaker 1: Eleven is a fascinating character. It's like, where did these
Speaker 1: powers come from? What's her backstory? There's so many things
Speaker 1: that just made this story intriguing and in many ways,
Speaker 1: if it weren't for the Duffer Brothers. Again, we'll get
Speaker 1: to some of our concerns and critique the conversations you
Speaker 1: and I have had. Finally showing it to your brother,
Speaker 1: I think he was twelve or thirteen when I finally
Speaker 1: talked your mom into allowing him to see part of it.
Speaker 1: Don't watch this, Love and Casion saw this. She finally
Speaker 1: agreed like it created some good memories for us, some
Speaker 1: good conversation, and anytime somebody does that, I'm thankful for that.
Speaker 1: So I don't know if the Duffer brothers I doubt
Speaker 1: would ever see this, but if you do, I'd love
Speaker 1: to interview you. I'd love to hear the backstory. I'd
Speaker 1: love to just have a conversation about how you came
Speaker 1: up with these characters and how you wove in some
Speaker 1: of the ideas behind it. Let's have that conversation if
Speaker 1: you happen to see it. Now, with that said, I've
Speaker 1: got to take on the worldview behind this that I
Speaker 1: haven't heard a lot of people giving. When we first
Speaker 1: started watching season one again, this is twenty sixteen, So
Speaker 1: July twenty sixteen is around the time Trump got the
Speaker 1: Republican nomination, if I'm not mistaken, and it finished December thirty,
Speaker 1: first twenty twenty five, roughly a decade this cover, So
Speaker 1: for ten years people were talking about and watching and analyzing,
Speaker 1: think about this show. That's a pretty remarkable feat. But
Speaker 1: when it came out and we're watching the first season,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, oh, this is a supernatural story. There's a
Speaker 1: demonic element to this. And so you have this upside
Speaker 1: down world you learn about, which clearly is like a
Speaker 1: hell type state. There's no angels in it, by the way,
Speaker 1: but there's it's a hell type state. You have the Demogorgans,
Speaker 1: and of course the demo dogs that are like demonic
Speaker 1: beans and hence the name dema Gorgan like demons. They're
Speaker 1: playing off that. You have the mind flayer that possesses Will.
Speaker 1: Then you move forward and you have Vetna in season four,
Speaker 1: who's clearly a Satan type figure, no question about that.
Speaker 1: And then you get to season five, and I was
Speaker 1: wondering as it start, I was like, are they going
Speaker 1: to continue this what I would call kind of a
Speaker 1: demystifying of the supernatural. And the piece in season five
Speaker 1: was they were talking about this mystical, this magical like
Speaker 1: energy field that Nancy shoots and it kind of blows
Speaker 1: up and they realize again, oh, this is not magic,
Speaker 1: it's not supernatural. There's a natural explanation for this. And
Speaker 1: when it really hit me is in kind of the
Speaker 1: early seasons, the mentor that they go to. They don't
Speaker 1: go to a priest, they don't go to a shaman,
Speaker 1: they don't go to a pastor, they don't go to
Speaker 1: some New Age guru to figure out what's going on.
Speaker 1: They go to a scientist, mister Clark. Mister Clark, who's
Speaker 1: their teacher, who happens to be a brilliant high school
Speaker 1: teacher by the way, he's brilliant. And that told me.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, wait a minute. They're giving the
Speaker 1: appearance after as if this is supernatural, but they're slowly
Speaker 1: subverting it one by one and explaining things away naturalistically.
Speaker 1: So even when it came to like season four, they
Speaker 1: have like a haunted house and they have these exorcisms
Speaker 1: where their eyes roll back, their hands tweak, as we've
Speaker 1: seen in these kind of exorcist type movies. But then
Speaker 1: you learn it's not actually an exorcism, it's not actually
Speaker 1: a haunted house. There's a scientific explanation for it. And
Speaker 1: so I actually think the worldview behind this is not supernaturalism.
Speaker 1: It's actually naturalism. Now a lot of science fiction films
Speaker 1: and TV shows will do this. By the way, not
Speaker 1: All Star Wars is science fiction but has kind of
Speaker 1: Buddhist New Age vibe to it, where everything can't be
Speaker 1: explained away materialistically. I think the worldview behind this is
Speaker 1: they're presenting certain things that we think are supernatural. We
Speaker 1: think people are communicating with some demonic realm. We think
Speaker 1: people are really being possessed. We think houses are actually haunted,
Speaker 1: we think there's demon type beings. But really, if you
Speaker 1: probe far enough, what we learn in the last season
Speaker 1: is they're like, you know, Vekna Henry is only human.
Speaker 1: We're reminded of that, and there's actually a scientific explanation
Speaker 1: for things. So the worldview underling Stranger Things is naturalism.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's actually supernaturalism, agree disagree anything to
Speaker 1: that challenge that what do you think one hundred percent?
Speaker 1: Agree with you that there's naturalism?
Speaker 2: Even from season one, there's always an explanation. Right in
Speaker 2: the beginning, you don't see the demogorgan, you don't know
Speaker 2: what it is. All you see is a shado out,
Speaker 2: especially when Will is running right now, they had to
Speaker 2: like rereck on some things because when the demo Gorgan's
Speaker 2: originally chasing Will, right, like he uses actually telekinesis right
Speaker 2: to move the chain off and open the door. We
Speaker 2: never see a dema Gorgon do that ever again.
Speaker 1: Right. And so in the beginning, I remember I was
Speaker 1: twelve years old.
Speaker 2: I was Shane's age. I was, yeah, I was twelve
Speaker 2: years old. I was moderately scared. I remember seeing that.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, like, is this gonna
Speaker 1: be demonic?
Speaker 2: Show? Didn't know what was going on, right, But then
Speaker 2: it was like, oh, nope, it is almost like an
Speaker 2: alien like figure, right, that's from another realm. Right, But
Speaker 2: it did carry on that demonic form, right, especially with
Speaker 2: the mind flare, right when you really really understood that
Speaker 2: it was actually possessing Will and entering his body and so,
Speaker 2: but then there was always a naturalistic explanation that it
Speaker 2: wasn't anything supernatural.
Speaker 1: It was naturalistic. And so when you said that, I
Speaker 1: was like one hundred percent agree. So take ll L.
Speaker 1: You think is, oh, here's this supernatural figure. But then
Speaker 1: if you probe more deeply into it, she's more like
Speaker 1: the X Men that have kind of telekinesis unexplained natural
Speaker 1: powers than supernatural powers like doctor Strange. So even she
Speaker 1: has powers that go beyond the natural world, we can't
Speaker 1: explain and we don't know really where they come from.
Speaker 1: And she's actually the reason why she opens up the
Speaker 1: portal in the first place. Like there's a certain danger
Speaker 1: to having that kind of power in the world in
Speaker 1: which we live, and we naturally recognize that, but it's
Speaker 1: not supernatural. It's actually a natural kind of power that
Speaker 1: she has, but it is just unexplained, and it's kind
Speaker 1: of the result of science messing with them and tweaking
Speaker 1: with them and resulting in these powers.
Speaker 2: Mister Clark says to the kids, He's like, guys, science
Speaker 2: is not forgiving. I remember being like, what, like, they're
Speaker 2: just they were so preaching at you in that moment,
Speaker 2: especially just about science, and yeah, and I.
Speaker 1: Totally see what you're saying. Okay, so we're gon we're
Speaker 1: gonna come back to that. It's an important point about
Speaker 1: how it from storytelling to some of the preaching. But
Speaker 1: even though I think this is a naturalistic I would
Speaker 1: kind of call it and it's like a subversion of
Speaker 1: things that are supernatural. If you're paying attention. There are
Speaker 1: certain things we associate with being supernatural, but it's like
Speaker 1: explaining demon possession way as mental illness. That's the kind
Speaker 1: of thing that the show is doing on steroids, which
Speaker 1: is fine, but there's also certain spiritual themes that emerge
Speaker 1: within it, and I don't know. This is where I
Speaker 1: would love to talk. I would love to talk with
Speaker 1: the Duffer brothers and know what's going on in their
Speaker 1: mind because there's certain spiritual themes that they just still
Speaker 1: embed within this show and they can't escape from it.
Speaker 1: So I think, and this isn't necessarily unique to me,
Speaker 1: but clearly the hero and the protagonist to the show
Speaker 1: is l Right from the moment she shows up, she's
Speaker 1: the most intriguing, she's the most powerful. She really does
Speaker 1: lead the group as a whole when it's all said
Speaker 1: and done. She's kind of a Christ type figure, I think.
Speaker 1: Now again, I don't know if any of this was intentional,
Speaker 1: but she shows up, she's totally misunderstood, kind of like
Speaker 1: Jesus arguably is when he shows up and look, he's
Speaker 1: rejected by his hometown, Nazareth. She's strange, she's persecuted, she's different,
Speaker 1: she has miracle type powers, although again they explain them away,
Speaker 1: but she has supernatural kinds of powers. Ironically, her mother
Speaker 1: is mentioned. Her father is never mentioned. Her father is
Speaker 1: never mentioned. This is almost like a kind of virgin birth.
Speaker 1: It's like, wait a minute, we know her mom and
Speaker 1: her story, but there's nothing about her father. Why is
Speaker 1: that a piece of this? I find it's interesting the
Speaker 1: name she's eleven, and the name El in Hebrew is
Speaker 1: short for the name of God. Again, could be coincidence.
Speaker 1: I don't want to read too much into it, but
Speaker 1: as I was reading about this and thinking about it enough,
Speaker 1: that's like, wait a minute. Season one, she seemingly sacrifices
Speaker 1: herself to defeat the Dema Gorgan, resurrects and comes back.
Speaker 1: We think she's gone. Now you could say the same
Speaker 1: thing for Hopper. In some sense, he's gone and he
Speaker 1: resurrects in a different way. And of course, at the
Speaker 1: end of the show in season five, again big spoiler
Speaker 1: alert if you haven't got that memo. Obviously we're spoiling things.
Speaker 1: Although the end is intentionally left open, the ultimate hero's
Speaker 1: death is what it's laying down your life and sacrificing
Speaker 1: for others. We see Iron Man do that, and you
Speaker 1: and I have done shows and had conversations about how
Speaker 1: he's a Christ type figure sacrifices himself to save others.
Speaker 1: She does the same thing at the end, she literally
Speaker 1: sacrifices herself, staying, you know, as the portal closes up,
Speaker 1: and again we don't know really what happens, but if
Speaker 1: I had to bet based on the show, I think
Speaker 1: she's probably gone and they make up a story at
Speaker 1: the end they're like, I believe, which is kind of
Speaker 1: this blind faith, almost kind of religious belief at the end,
Speaker 1: which was interesting. But she probably sacrificed herself and knew
Speaker 1: that was the only way to save reality. So you
Speaker 1: have this broken world in which relationships are broken and
Speaker 1: things are not as they're supposed to be. You have
Speaker 1: this seemingly virgin born you know that mirrors it come
Speaker 1: in with miraculous powers, misunderstood does miracles, lays down her
Speaker 1: life to save all of mankind, and then disappears. You
Speaker 1: can't tell me that there's not at least some serious
Speaker 1: overlap with this. So either they planned it that way,
Speaker 1: which I'm skeptical of because there's so many ideas in
Speaker 1: the film that are critical of Christianity or like with Endgame,
Speaker 1: the greatest story you can tell is somebody who's kind
Speaker 1: of a Messiah type figure lays down his or her life.
Speaker 1: That's the greatest act of love to save the world.
Speaker 1: So I do think there's some powerful themes in here
Speaker 1: as Christians we shouldn't miss. And I have a reason
Speaker 1: why I focus on this. I think part of it
Speaker 1: is it's just written on our hearts. We know what
Speaker 1: love is. It makes sense that the world is broken,
Speaker 1: makes sense we need a savior from outside of the
Speaker 1: normal realm to come in and save us. We can't
Speaker 1: save ourselves, and the only way you defeed evil is
Speaker 1: an act of love and self sacrifice. So in some ways,
Speaker 1: there are so many ideas embedded in Stranger Things that
Speaker 1: are contrary to a Christian worldview, and yet it rests
Speaker 1: on certain ideas that only makes sense in a Christian worldview.
Speaker 1: That's how I see it.
Speaker 2: Just agree, am I reaching? Tell me for I think
Speaker 2: I disagree with you? Is I actually think that El's alive.
Speaker 2: I think that the Duffer brothers did not plan on
Speaker 2: what they were what they were doing right now, I
Speaker 2: do see what you're saying in terms of her being
Speaker 2: a christ like figure and her sacrificing herself, But I
Speaker 2: don't believe that that's what they were intending to do whatsoever.
Speaker 2: So actually we do agree on that. I don't believe
Speaker 2: that the Duffer brothers were intending that to be a Jesus.
Speaker 1: Like figure everything. But I do believe that she was alive.
Speaker 2: But I would argue that I actually think the Duffer
Speaker 2: brothers have no idea what love is, and I think
Speaker 2: they're trying to. They just throw stuff together and think
Speaker 2: about it, right, I think, Okay, now we're gonna come
Speaker 2: back to your thoughts on left.
Speaker 1: I don't get ahead of ourselves. But please, seriously, if
Speaker 1: you're watching this and you want the Duffer brothers to
Speaker 1: sit down with me, I won't. We're gonna have to
Speaker 1: have a debate. I just want to probe and explore
Speaker 1: some of the spiritual themes behind this. I mean, the
Speaker 1: name el miraculous powers, those are seemingly a virgin birth,
Speaker 1: does sacrifice her life, promotes and argues for a kind
Speaker 1: of love of mankind. I mean, she is a christ
Speaker 1: time figure. Why did they do that? Did they do
Speaker 1: it intentionally or not? I just want to know and
Speaker 1: would love to talk with the two of you. Please
Speaker 1: let me sit down and we could explore this. That
Speaker 1: would be so much fun. There are so many other
Speaker 1: spiritual things here, but a couple of things that also
Speaker 1: jumped out to me. Season five was preoccupied with secrets.
Speaker 1: It was all about secrets that people were keeping from
Speaker 1: one another. So Dustin's keeping a secret from Steve. That's
Speaker 1: part of why he rejected, because he didn't want him
Speaker 1: to die Like Eddie. Of course, you have Jonathan and
Speaker 1: Nancy keeping secrets from one another. You have Will's big
Speaker 1: secret we'll get to in a minute. But part of
Speaker 1: what is there afraid of Vecna's going to use powers
Speaker 1: against them. But in part how do they overcome these
Speaker 1: secrets by a kind of confession. If I have a
Speaker 1: secret that tears me apart and that separates me from you,
Speaker 1: I've got to confess this sin and then it kind
Speaker 1: of draws us together. So that scene, which apparently was
Speaker 1: a breakup scene with Nancy and with Jonathan, which in
Speaker 1: some ways I thought this was like a Titanic scene
Speaker 1: where the boat is sinking and they're dying. I'm like,
Speaker 1: looking now, we're going into the nineties. It was a
Speaker 1: confession scene. This is such a biblical idea that we
Speaker 1: have secrets, we have sins, and the way we overcome
Speaker 1: them is we have to confess them. Again, I don't
Speaker 1: think they're doing this intentionally, but I'm like, they're telling
Speaker 1: the story critique in a Christian worldview, but embedded within
Speaker 1: it are these deep Judeo Christian ideas that just cannot
Speaker 1: be escaped. So I thought, I mean, there's other spiritual
Speaker 1: themes in this. But one of the things I do
Speaker 1: is I'll watch a show and i'll watch a movie.
Speaker 1: I'll say, Okay, maybe they're critique in Christianity, maybe not,
Speaker 1: but what are some deep assumptions that are brought to
Speaker 1: the table and where do these assumptions make sense? And
Speaker 1: I think some of the assumptions in this show only
Speaker 1: makes sense within the Judeo Christian world view, even though
Speaker 1: they use it to critique the Judeo Christian world view.
Speaker 1: All right, So, really quickly, how much does the demonic
Speaker 1: element in the show concern you?
Speaker 2: It depends on what you mean by concern, right, Like,
Speaker 2: I think as Christians, I don't think there's anything wrong
Speaker 2: with watching the show, especially you me having those conversations, right,
Speaker 2: especially having it when I was twelve years old, not
Speaker 2: fully understanding that I'm watching, right. We had those conversations,
Speaker 2: you asking me certain questions, and we were able to
Speaker 2: unpack those, and I was able to see, even from
Speaker 2: a younger age, that this does have a naturalistic explanation
Speaker 2: for all the things that happen in this show. And
Speaker 2: so I wouldn't say if there's anything concerning about it
Speaker 2: right now. I do think in season four and five
Speaker 2: they kick it up in terms of like the exorcism
Speaker 2: stuff right where the eyes roll back, they're levitating like that,
Speaker 2: when I was like, okay, like, but that's when the
Speaker 2: show started to lose me, right. That's when the show
Speaker 2: ultimately started to lose me, right, when they were trying
Speaker 2: to interject.
Speaker 1: That into the show.
Speaker 2: But early on I was like, man, like, there's some
Speaker 2: scary stuff in here, right, But I was like, I
Speaker 2: actually I enjoyed it, right, and didn't think there was
Speaker 2: anything necessarily wrong with it, because I also don't think
Speaker 2: it like glorified it like it actually did in season
Speaker 2: four and five, right. I actually think parts of the
Speaker 2: show like glorified though, when their eyes were rolling back
Speaker 2: and it just they added so many scenes like that
Speaker 2: that I was like, I'm getting a little bit more
Speaker 2: like I just I don't really want to watch this,
Speaker 2: like it's it, there's no need to watch it. And
Speaker 2: so but early on I would have no issues with
Speaker 2: the in.
Speaker 1: Terms of what you mean by concerning your mom, this
Speaker 1: show kind of bothered her. She has real sense for
Speaker 1: that stuff, and I don't. I don't. I don't watch
Speaker 1: hardly any horror movies. Yeah, I can't watch any like
Speaker 1: extracist type movies. It bothers me because I think that's real.
Speaker 1: This was pushing some of the limits of that. Now,
Speaker 1: I do think that the Christian world view is true
Speaker 1: and these things don't have ultimate power over us. But
Speaker 1: when I learned, for example, that Hasbro made a Wigi
Speaker 1: board for those fourteen and plus based on season one,
Speaker 1: and I didn't see it at the time, but Joy Spyers,
Speaker 1: when onld Ryder's character on the Wall puts up all
Speaker 1: these letters and she's communicating with Christmas lights to Will,
Speaker 1: who's in the upside down, and she's asking the letters
Speaker 1: are lighting up. It's like a Wigi board on the wall.
Speaker 1: And so they use that to market a Wigi board,
Speaker 1: of course, to make money. But in some ways in
Speaker 1: this generation, it can communicate the idea of like, hey,
Speaker 1: a bunch of non experts, a bunch of kids can
Speaker 1: get together and just defeat this kind of evil if
Speaker 1: it exists, and just play with Luigi board. There is
Speaker 1: a level that a show like this can normalize that
Speaker 1: within society when biblically speaking, these things are real, which
Speaker 1: I agree with, I think goes back.
Speaker 2: I don't think that Duffer brothers believe that it's real, right,
Speaker 2: because even in that moment right where she has the
Speaker 2: Chris lights and the words, there's a naturalistic explanation because
Speaker 2: Will is in the upside down in the exact spot,
Speaker 2: and he's the one that's pointing at the things that
Speaker 2: making the light go, so she's able to communicate with him, right,
Speaker 2: And so I think that there is that naturalistic explanation
Speaker 2: that I believe that the Duffer Brothers. It's probably why
Speaker 2: there's no there's no big deal with it, right, if
Speaker 2: you understand the problem with an Ouigi board, you don't
Speaker 2: want anybody playing with an Oluigi board. Right. We have
Speaker 2: close friends right who have dealt with that stuff and
Speaker 2: seeing it and they're like, stay away from it, right,
Speaker 2: there's some real things that we've seen from those boards, right,
Speaker 2: And so I don't believe that the Duffer brothers even
Speaker 2: think that they're that big of a deal, right.
Speaker 1: I don't think that they believe that the supernatural actually exists.
Speaker 2: I think that they show that in the show, that
Speaker 2: there's a naturalistic explanation for everything.
Speaker 1: I'd love to have that conversation with them and see
Speaker 1: where their world view is coming from. So I do
Speaker 1: think the show subverts it, but I don't know how
Speaker 1: many people are paying attention to that and really picking
Speaker 1: up on it and thinking that I can put the
Speaker 1: Ouigi board not a big deal, cool way of communicating
Speaker 1: with somebody else and not understanding that humans are real.
Speaker 1: The supernatural is real, in fact, not just as real
Speaker 1: as this world. In some ways, it's more real than
Speaker 1: this world. And I think at least Christians should give
Speaker 1: serious pause to this and ask is something being normalized
Speaker 1: and accepted and downplayed that the Bible says we're in
Speaker 1: a spiritual battle against you know, one thing, just a
Speaker 1: side note is the Jesus. I don't think ever comes
Speaker 1: up except as a swear word. Oh yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1: And you know I did this search on I did this,
Speaker 1: I'll just own it on chat GPT. I didn't do
Speaker 1: a full analysis itself. But you don't have anybody praying
Speaker 1: to God. I think there's one scene where Hopper can't
Speaker 1: remember who he's talking with, and it's when he's like
Speaker 1: in Russia and he's like, maybe I should play may pray.
Speaker 1: Maybe there's a plan, Like there's kind of this hint
Speaker 1: of it, but there's never like supernatural powers are coming,
Speaker 1: we need to pray, we need to trust in Jesus.
Speaker 1: I mean, none of that. And yet according to this analysis,
Speaker 1: you know, fans have estimated that there were dozens of
Speaker 1: times the word Jesus Christ or ged are used, potentially
Speaker 1: over one hundred in the first half of season five alone.
Speaker 1: I stopped it and I said that to you. When
Speaker 1: we were watching it.
Speaker 2: I remember being like, they're like intentionally adding in, Like
Speaker 2: they would say something and he would pause and then
Speaker 2: say GD and then keep going, and I'm like, there
Speaker 2: just says no need. And it was like every character
Speaker 2: was saying it too. It wasn't just like you know,
Speaker 2: Popper saying it or one another. It was literally every
Speaker 2: person had a moment saying that word multiple times. Even
Speaker 2: Missus Wheeler's saying it when she's like and I'm like this,
Speaker 2: She's like, I'm never leaving my gd kid alone, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my gosh, everybody's saying this.
Speaker 1: Word, and so like, why why would Duffer brothers do that?
Speaker 1: It insults a huge segment of your of people who
Speaker 1: are watching this. It's not necessary. Look, I was there
Speaker 1: in the eighties. That is not the main way people
Speaker 1: were cussing. There were a lot of words that were
Speaker 1: used that would not be used in this that are
Speaker 1: not politically correct anymore. To use a dated term within itself,
Speaker 1: that's not how people spoke. That's an example of something
Speaker 1: that's just not necessary at all. Why put that in there?
Speaker 1: And it just bothered me, example after example after example,
Speaker 1: I read a number of people like, because they did
Speaker 1: this so much, ituned out. So it's just amazing that
Speaker 1: God and Jesus show up there, but not really anywhere else.
Speaker 1: There's a few church scenes, but they were not that
Speaker 1: significant as a whole. So all right, So last question.
Speaker 1: The big scene that a ton of people are talking
Speaker 1: about is the coming out story of Will, and in
Speaker 1: some ways that this is a side part of the story.
Speaker 1: We wouldn't have to spend a ton of time on it.
Speaker 1: But this is like a pivotal moment that the Duffer
Speaker 1: brothers said for nine years they were building up to it,
Speaker 1: and his coming out gives them a kind of of
Speaker 1: superpower to really the character who plays Will said it
Speaker 1: gave him superpower to ultimately defeat Vetna. So give me
Speaker 1: your take on that scene wherever you want to go
Speaker 1: with it.
Speaker 2: So I have like my personal take, and then I
Speaker 2: just have my generation viewed with this, okay, with this take.
Speaker 2: So my personal take was I literally was I'm done.
Speaker 2: I'm like, this is ridiculous. The world is ending, and
Speaker 2: we need to take a fifteen minute break so Will
Speaker 2: can tell everybody that he's gay, and I'm like, why
Speaker 2: nobody cares. One of the things that I said to you,
Speaker 2: I said, I would love to know the percentage of
Speaker 2: people who are watching this show who this scene did
Speaker 2: not make.
Speaker 1: Them up, like, did not make them comfortable.
Speaker 2: Like I just was like, I swear, how do you
Speaker 2: not watch this and be like just oh yeah, good
Speaker 2: for Will. Everybody that I talked to is like that
Speaker 2: scene sucked right. Everybody acted horrible. It literally felt like
Speaker 2: it was interjected into the show for no reason, and honestly,
Speaker 2: it made me upset because this showed me I was.
Speaker 1: Like, I loved seasons one, two, and three. I loved it.
Speaker 2: I remember in season three where Robin had that scene
Speaker 2: where she tells Steve that he's gay, and I remember
Speaker 2: she is, yeah, that she's gay, and I just remember
Speaker 2: being like, ah, of course they had to add something.
Speaker 2: But I didn't think it was like that bad, right,
Speaker 2: I'm like, Okay, they have a gay character.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's fine. I think that Steve in the eighties.
Speaker 2: Would not have reacted the way that he reacted, but
Speaker 2: that's a separate point.
Speaker 1: But I just remember being like, it's not that big
Speaker 1: of a deal.
Speaker 2: But when this scene came on, I literally was like,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, this makes me upset because of how
Speaker 2: much I love this show and how.
Speaker 1: Unneeded it was. It's so unneeded. Now my generation, I
Speaker 1: think has shares my views. We were just upset.
Speaker 2: If you scrolled on TikTok, if you scrolled on Instagram,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm talking about. People are clowning that scene.
Speaker 2: And this is from the left to the right. Oh,
Speaker 2: this is this is as a whole. This is both
Speaker 2: this is not just like one side, no literally clowning
Speaker 2: that scene one because the biggest thing is like, you know,
Speaker 2: the world is literally ending, but we need to take
Speaker 2: a fifteen minute break so Will can tell everybody that
Speaker 2: he's gay, Like for some reason, that's supposed to help us,
Speaker 2: but also it's why are why is everybody there? Like
Speaker 2: this is supposed to be Like when he was coming out,
Speaker 2: one of the things that Rob was telling him was like,
Speaker 2: you know, tell the people that you love.
Speaker 1: Honestly, if the scene was just him, his.
Speaker 2: Mom and Mike, I'd be like, you know what, like okay,
Speaker 2: I get it right, Okay there they still want to
Speaker 2: interject it.
Speaker 1: But the fact that like.
Speaker 2: Half the town's there, Like I'm like, you know, Hopper,
Speaker 2: who's the chief of police of a small town in Indiana,
Speaker 2: is not just going to sit there and be like
Speaker 2: you know what, Will yep, like you're right, Like nobody
Speaker 2: like says anything, you know, like Eleven's crying, you know.
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm like, what is is? What is going
Speaker 1: on here?
Speaker 2: Like they're just trying to preach us that this is normal,
Speaker 2: But nobody watching that, at least a mass majority of
Speaker 2: people watching that nobody thought was that's normal, right, because
Speaker 2: you don't need to preach at something that's normal, right.
Speaker 2: Nobody else in that room if if Mike him was like,
Speaker 2: you know what, I like girls, I like eleven like
Speaker 2: that wouldn't that wouldn't everyone like yeah? Like of course,
Speaker 2: they'd have actually probably the same reaction that the Dumber
Speaker 2: Brothers were trying to give off. And so that scene
Speaker 2: like makes me super upset because I watched it get
Speaker 2: interjected into the show when it did not need to
Speaker 2: be there.
Speaker 1: It did not need to be there. See that's where
Speaker 1: I totally agree that. One of the other shows that
Speaker 1: we watched when you were a kid was The Flash,
Speaker 1: And interestingly, the first three seasons we loved, and then
Speaker 1: season four went off the rails loved. The Season three
Speaker 1: of Flash is one of my all time favorite seasons
Speaker 1: of any show. It was just so interesting. Savatar a
Speaker 1: great bad guy. Now in the Flash, there there's a
Speaker 1: couple that lives together before they're married. They make it
Speaker 1: seem really cool. There's a gay character. I think he's
Speaker 1: maybe the police chief. None of that bothered me because
Speaker 1: I don't expect the Flash to promote Christian morality. They're
Speaker 1: telling a story about a hero in a society in
Speaker 1: which there are people that live together, there are people
Speaker 1: who are married, there are people who are gay. Fine,
Speaker 1: that doesn't bother me. And then Supergirl came out and
Speaker 1: I thought, you know what, I'm gonna watch this with
Speaker 1: your sister three years younger. This is a little girl power,
Speaker 1: this will be a fun connected point we started, and
Speaker 1: they literally sacrifice the quality of the storytelling to promote
Speaker 1: this lesbian relationship. And I was sitting having lunch with
Speaker 1: an atheist friend of mine and he goes. I completely
Speaker 1: agree with you that he goes. I assess the morality
Speaker 1: that relationship differently than you do. He goes. But I
Speaker 1: couldn't watch Supergirl because they sacrifice the quality of the
Speaker 1: storytelling to insert something that was unnecessary and didn't advance
Speaker 1: the story. That's how I felt with this. I mean,
Speaker 1: in some ways it felt like we've had crammed down
Speaker 1: our throats culturally speaking, how important it is to praise
Speaker 1: how everybody feels about themselves. If however, somebody identifies, we
Speaker 1: all have to love and praise on them. And in
Speaker 1: this show, the world is literally ending, and it's more
Speaker 1: important to affirm Will's feelings and make sure everybody loves
Speaker 1: on him than to actually go out and save the universe.
Speaker 1: So in some ways, I'm watching this going did they
Speaker 1: not get the memo in twenty twenty five that it's
Speaker 1: not twenty twenty anymore. It felt like, not only is
Speaker 1: this a show in the eighties that never would have
Speaker 1: gone down that way. I was there, It's so never
Speaker 1: would have gone down that way for a million reasons,
Speaker 1: but also felt like a show stuck in the early
Speaker 1: twenty twenties where they didn't get the memo that culture
Speaker 1: has kind of moved on from that and a little
Speaker 1: tired of being preached at. And I think what's just
Speaker 1: so interesting to me is the wrap on Christian movies,
Speaker 1: which I think in some ways was rightly there was
Speaker 1: some truth to it, is that Christian movies are always
Speaker 1: preaching like the come to Jesus moment is just not natural.
Speaker 1: It's forced. It's in your face. It's like, okay, we
Speaker 1: all saw that coming. And I've proclaimed to a lot
Speaker 1: of Christians in filmmaking and just in conversation, I say,
Speaker 1: just tell a natural story exactly, and that's more powerful.
Speaker 1: I think they could have just told a natural story
Speaker 1: because I can remember growing up in the eighties in
Speaker 1: the early nineties. Even though I'm a Christian and hold
Speaker 1: a Christian sexual ethic, I didn't always see it at
Speaker 1: the time, but looking back at the language that was used,
Speaker 1: the way people were treated is totally out of line,
Speaker 1: and look back, I'm like, WHOA like that was really
Speaker 1: messed up. They could have just naturally woven that in there.
Speaker 1: So a thought so respecting their audience in the sense of, oh,
Speaker 1: we'll pick up on that and see that we've improved
Speaker 1: in the way they think society should improve. But instead,
Speaker 1: as somebody who's watching this, I feel like they're insulting
Speaker 1: my intelligence and stopping the story to go, okay, now
Speaker 1: we've got our commercial to preach at you, and then
Speaker 1: back to literally saving the world from there. It's just
Speaker 1: it's bad storytelling. Its smacks of preaching at somebody. So
Speaker 1: the best stories are those that you kind of discover
Speaker 1: and they feel natural, rather than being told what you're
Speaker 1: supposed to think. You walk away and you maybe rethink things,
Speaker 1: maybe you see it a little bit differently, maybe it's
Speaker 1: provoked thought. I think they had an opportunity to do
Speaker 1: that and just didn't do so so that scene in
Speaker 1: itself my Christian ethic aside in which we could talk
Speaker 1: about all those issues. And I've done a ton of
Speaker 1: videos here people can watch to figure out my position
Speaker 1: on marriage and sexuality and LGBTQ. But just from a
Speaker 1: filmmaking and a storytelling perspective, I thought it was just.
Speaker 1: And the last thing I'll say you hinted at this
Speaker 1: earlier is back in season three when Robin comes out.
Speaker 1: When I'm watched that on going, that conversation didn't happen
Speaker 1: anyway where in the eighties. Ever, the way they framed
Speaker 1: it there in that same season, when the kids are
Speaker 1: trying to break a code dust he has to reach
Speaker 1: out to his girlfriend and get a number, I think
Speaker 1: it was like Plank's constant. If I could be totally
Speaker 1: butchering this, but the number they get was not reflective
Speaker 1: of the time in which the movie took place. And
Speaker 1: all these people criticized you didn't get the eighties right,
Speaker 1: I'm going, why are we picking on this and not that?
Speaker 1: Because it's driven by an agenda and it's driven by
Speaker 1: a worldview. That's what I think is behind this. So again,
Speaker 1: Duff Brothers, if I'm wrong, let's talk about it. Explain
Speaker 1: where you're coming from, Explain why you think this is
Speaker 1: a part of the story and we should assess it differently.
Speaker 1: I would love to have that conversation with you. Anything
Speaker 1: else you want to add about the show as we
Speaker 1: wrap up.
Speaker 2: No, my biggest thing was is I absolutely adored season
Speaker 2: one through three.
Speaker 1: It was awesome. I felt like I was growing up
Speaker 1: with the show.
Speaker 2: And then they just took this time get But I
Speaker 2: know there was COVID and the writers' strike and all
Speaker 2: these things, and just there were other shows that came
Speaker 2: out and started and ended in between the show.
Speaker 1: You said you started Trump's presidency.
Speaker 2: I was like, holy cow, Like it literally went through
Speaker 2: his entire presidency and Biden's Like. It was a long,
Speaker 2: long show, and I think that that was to the
Speaker 2: detriment of it, right. I believe that they stretched it
Speaker 2: out too far. Sometimes you got to just end a show.
Speaker 2: We talked about the Flash, right, that went way too long.
Speaker 2: They should have just ended it after season three, right,
Speaker 2: And so I believe that that was super disappointing, especially
Speaker 2: the way, especially the way it four and five went,
Speaker 2: and just the continued preaching and honestly, the more people
Speaker 2: I talked to, we were very.
Speaker 1: Upset with that last scene. I was very upset.
Speaker 2: I've never watched Lost, and I know you've shared your
Speaker 2: opinions on how that show just completely went to crap
Speaker 2: at the end and end horrible. That's how I feel
Speaker 2: this show honestly went. The first three seasons, I would
Speaker 2: give nine out of ten. That's how good of a
Speaker 2: show I thought it was. The last two seasons. At best,
Speaker 2: I give.
Speaker 1: It three out of ten. At best, Wow, three out
Speaker 1: of ten. All Right, you heard it from a gen
Speaker 1: and a gen xer. Let me know if these kind
Speaker 1: of reviews are helpful to you. I don't do a
Speaker 1: ton of movie reviews here, but if I can bring
Speaker 1: hopefully a cultural maybe an apologetic or worldview perspective issues,
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Speaker 1: coming up in twenty twenty six you will not want
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Speaker 1: love to have you in our apologetics program we do
Speaker 1: at Talb School Theology. We do some cultural apologetics. We
Speaker 1: have classes on this as well as problem of Evil
Speaker 1: intelligien design evidence for the Bible. Information is below, and
Speaker 1: we have a full distance program as well. All right,
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