WEBVTT - Stranger Things: My Review 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:10.000 Life audio. Stranger Things is Netflix's most popular TV series ever, 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:14.239 with over one point two billion views. Why has this 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:17.040 show been so popular? What did it get right? Why 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:21.000 did it get wrong? What might agen Zer, my son Scotti, 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:24.760 and agen Xer think about it? Given that this show 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:27.840 was made for gen X and for gen Z, thought 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:30.200 I'd bring my son on to break down me. You ready, 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:32.560 rock and roll? Let's do it all right? So before 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:35.360 we jump in, let's just briefly talk about what Stranger 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:38.800 Things is about. It starts in November nineteen eighty three, 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:40.920 and by the way, I was about seven years old 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:44.320 when this show is placed in and it's a group 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:47.680 of boys who are playing dungeons and dragons at the beginning. 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:51.680 But what happens is in this small town, these seemingly 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:56.639 supernatural things start to take place. There's kidnappings, there's appearance 0:00:56.680 --> 0:01:01.040 of a monster. There's clearly this seemingly super natural realm 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:04.920 breaking through. And as we moved through five seasons, we 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:10.800 learn more and more about this realm breaking into Hawkins, Indiana, 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:14.400 and how the kids respond and defeat the bad guys. 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:16.840 Anything you'd add, just in terms of quickly what this 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:18.640 show is about. I think you actually nailed it. I 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:21.640 think it's perfect, all right. So what I want to 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:24.959 know from you is, I'm really curious. It is fascinating 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:27.400 that this show is written with two audiences in mind, 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:30.840 a little bit like Cobra Kai, which hit my generation 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:34.400 watching Cobra you know, watching cry to Kid as a kid, 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:37.520 and then your generation that's new. It's kind of written 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:42.119 for both generations. Again, one point two billion views, which 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:44.720 is insane. Why do you think this show has been 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:45.319 so popular? 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:47.520 One, I remember, I think I was in seventh grade 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:49.680 when this show came out, and there was just something 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:52.880 different about it. For one, it was Netflix's first Netflix 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:55.360 branded show. Right when it came out on Netflix, people 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:58.040 were like, what is this? Netflix is making TV shows now, 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:00.720 so remember that. But there's also there was this mystery 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:04.400 is horror, especially from season one, and also the kids. 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:07.040 My generation was really able to resonate with the kids 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:09.200 because frankly, we were like the same age. I think 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:11.880 they're a little bit younger in the show, but the actors' 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:14.040 ages were about the same age that I was, So 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:17.800 I could see myself as those kids right taking place 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:19.519 in the eighties where you were as a kid. And 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:22.200 I think that that really gravitated and there was just 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:25.480 so many questions that this show brought up, and honestly, 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:27.400 it really captivated our generation. 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:30.919 So do you think for your generation, Like one of 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:33.480 the things I enjoyed is a dad was showing you 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:36.519 some of the TV shows and movies that were meaningful 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:38.320 to me as a kid. I remember the first time 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:41.240 I showed you Star Wars, sitting in our bedroom, telling 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:43.480 your mom, we're watching Star Wars. I don't know, maybe 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:45.919 I can't remember, maybe you're eight or ten years old, 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:49.160 whatever it was. Some of the other shows like Karate Kid, 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:52.320 some of these shows I've shared with you. It's a 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:55.359 fun thing parents do with their kids. Is this show 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:58.920 meaningful enough to you and your generation that when you 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:01.880 have kids some day you'll want to show them this 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:04.280 or would you not rank it quite that high? I 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:04.760 would have. 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:08.560 For the first three seasons, I absolutely loved this show. 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:11.760 The last two seasons to me, were a massive disappointment 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:14.240 that honestly, I think I will show my kids it, 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:17.240 but it didn't hold the gravity that the first three 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:20.000 seasons had, and it was a really big letdown for me. 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:22.560 But one of the reasons why I absolutely like Love 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:25.360 Stranger Things was I think for our generation, right when 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:27.120 you look at it, For you guys got you grew up. 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:28.920 You had Star Wars and original movie. 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:31.320 You had Indiana Jones, you had Rambo, you had Rocky, 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:32.480 all those different movies. 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:36.160 Our generation doesn't have a lot of original movies. 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:39.800 What we have is TV shows, right, And so what 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:42.480 we loved about Strangers Things was this is an entire 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:46.120 original cast. A lot of the actors were also not 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:49.240 people that we really knew about, right, Even the mom Joyce. 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:50.760 I knew she was a big eighty star, but we 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:53.360 didn't really know who she was, right. And all these 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:56.080 kids came out of nowhere, and honestly, we just fell 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:57.720 in love with them. And they're all still one of 0:03:57.760 --> 0:03:59.800 the most famous stars to this day. All of them 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:02.440 have millions and millions of followers, and I think they're 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:03.320 all pretty good actors. 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:05.520 So you did hit on in part why this show 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:09.640 is so popular is that it simultaneously reaches two demographics. 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:12.360 The Duffer brothers actually had said that they were not 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:15.640 writing this for kids, They're writing it for adults. But 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:19.520 I think some of the language of and the dialogue 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:21.760 appeals more to kids than it does to adults. But 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:25.080 nonetheless it's the story of these young kids bonding together. 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:28.360 But it also for my generation. You know, I grew 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:31.280 up roughly around that time, so I remember hanging out 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:34.000 at malls. Of course, I remember all the songs that 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:36.560 they had. I remember the dress, and they did a 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:39.920 good job as a whole of painting what the eighties 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:42.920 felt like leaving at home telling your parents. I remember 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:45.400 I would just take off on my bike and I'd 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:47.359 tell your Granmy. I was like, you know, I'll be 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:49.440 back at dinner, and she was fine with that in 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:52.720 a small town, you know, California, not in Indiana. So 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:55.760 I think they found a way to reach two generations. 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:58.520 When you just think about shows that people are drawn 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:01.200 to Netflix as a whole, had that and we'll get 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:04.400 to some of our critique. But the characters are obviously 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:07.520 lovable and likable. I mean some of the characters like Dustin, 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:10.240 some of the characters like Steve, I thought were fantastic. 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:14.840 There's intrigue, there's mystery. I mean that first season when 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:17.680 you figured out what are these demo organs? It was 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:21.640 kind of scary. Like I remember, I wanted almost like 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:24.719 twenty four, wanting to watch the next episode in the 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:27.960 next episode What's gonna happen? And they did a brilliant 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:31.240 job of just kind of unfolding the story over time, 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.880 at least for the three seasons. So simply from a 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:39.440 storytelling perspective and a character perspective, I see why the 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:42.640 story has been so popular. It makes it makes sense 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:44.720 to me. Okay, so let's take a minute and talk 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:48.359 about what do you think the show got right? And 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:50.280 I'm curious, and after that come back to what do 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:52.200 you think the show got wrong? So do you One 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:53.440 of the things I try to do is when I 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:56.680 watch films, and obviously like this one, there's plenty I 0:05:56.760 --> 0:06:00.599 disagree with, and plenty will get to the critique. But 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:02.520 as a Christian, I want to start with common ground. 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:05.000 I want to start with a positive and I don't 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:09.000 want to be that rage bait taking Christian always being 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:12.920 critical of everything. I don't think that's charitable and I 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:16.440 don't think it's helpful. And I do think this show 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:19.599 got a lot of things right. So tell me as 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:21.520 you see it what you think you tick got right. 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:23.719 I think one of the biggest things that got right 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:27.039 was the characters. I think all the original characters you 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:30.160 actually cared about. And characters that they brought on in 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:32.880 season two and in season three, right, that were new. 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:36.240 You actually were invested in those characters, right. I think 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:40.760 they had such good character development throughout the seasons. The relationships, right, 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:42.960 like you're like, Okay, Steven Dustin are now friends in 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:45.040 season three, right that they weren't in the first season. 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:46.480 And all these different characters. 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:50.040 I think that they absolutely just captivated me, right, especially 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:52.120 just as a younger a younger guy, right that the 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:54.760 four main guys that were the head of the show. 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:57.720 And honestly, I just I loved and I attached myself 0:06:57.760 --> 0:06:59.840 onto them. I could see my bits and pieces of 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:03.320 myself in each one of those characters, especially as a kid. Right. 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:05.159 I remember I loved when you would talk about you know, 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:06.719 oh man, I grew up in a small town. 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:08.560 I remember all those little things. 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:08.839 Right. 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:11.360 That's one of the reasons why I absolutely loved this show. 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:13.239 So one of the things I think they one hundred 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:16.360 percent nailed was the characters, and through at least season three, 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:18.600 the characters that they brought on, whether it was Max, 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:20.440 whether it was Eddie, all those different characters, I think 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:21.080 that they killed it. 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:23.720 I'd be really interested to see if you already watch 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:27.000 this as an adult having seen it as a kid, 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:30.880 if you'll process it differently, because sometimes I go back 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:33.120 to shows I saw as a kid and either I'm like, 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:36.520 I can't believe I ever liked that, or I see 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:39.160 it through a different lens. So you and I recently 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:42.680 were talking about watching sixth Sense and that show. I 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:45.840 loved it when it came out, am not m Night Shyamalan. 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:50.120 I mean, that is a brilliant, just epic film. But 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:54.480 when you watch that as a parent, it was harrowing 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:58.320 to me through an entirely different lens of just the 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:02.160 horror that that young boy went through and how he's 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:04.000 torn of like do I tell the truth or do 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:07.240 I lie to my mom so she won't think I'm 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:11.320 crazy and reject me. You see it through a lens 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:14.640 different when your parent. Partly what the show did is 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:18.040 it appeals to kids who want to be a venturous 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:21.320 they want to fight the bad guy, they just want 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:24.280 to be a part of some epic journey. And also 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:27.640 I think appeals to this rebellious spirit that kids have. 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:30.800 And of course the last speech by Dusty at the 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:32.959 end of season five, we didn't say this. By the way, 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:35.760 there's gonna be some spoilers here. We should have said 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:38.360 this at the beginning. But the season you know, the 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:41.319 piece at the end where he just tells off the principle. 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:44.520 It appeals to so many things with kids. But I 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:47.160 also watch this through the lens of a parent. I 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:50.400 watched this going, oh, my goodness, if my son was 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:55.400 Will who gets kidnapped and is being terrorized by this demigorgan, 0:08:56.280 --> 0:09:00.160 I view it very, very differently as a parent. I 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:04.800 think they found a way to capture parents' fears, parents' concerns, 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:09.040 what would interest jen xers like myself that are now 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:13.520 looking back, but also appeal to gen z And that's 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:15.360 not easy to do. I can only think of a 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:19.319 handful of shows that have actually done that. Yeah, I 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:19.920 would add to that. 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:22.320 I think they did a brilliant job, especially in season 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:24.760 one with Joyce. I mean, you saw the pain that 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:27.000 she went through when she was the only one that 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:29.920 believed that Will was still alive. Even his brother Jonathan 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:32.760 right was just like, Mom, he's dead. I remember that scene. 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:34.920 It was like, Mom, he's dead, move on, come to 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:37.600 the funeral, right, be there with me? And She's like, no, 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:40.040 my son is still out there. So resonated with that, 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:42.599 But then it was also with Hopper's character. Hopper was 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:45.160 my favorite character throughout the show because you saw the 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:47.800 turmoil he went through and he took on Elle as 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:51.000 a daughter because he lost his right. And so I 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:53.559 see exactly what you're saying. I think I will watch 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:55.760 it differently as a parent, but I do I agree 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:57.079 with you one hundred percent. I think that they did 0:09:57.080 --> 0:10:01.080 that right as through a parent's eyes, watching Joy, watching Hopper, 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:03.319 watching those parents. Now, I do think it is interesting, 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:06.320 especially some of the younger seasons. Besides the main adults, 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:09.120 some of the other adults are like idiots almost, and 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:12.079 they ta hate that picture to make it sound like idiots, right, 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:15.200 Like the Wheelers, Mike's parents and the first couple seasons 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:17.920 are like idiots. They always get it wrong. Especially Dad, 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:20.440 He's just like there, he's an idiot. I remember there's 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:22.600 the scene where the police are interrogating him. 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:24.520 He goes, don't you know that? He's like, I believe 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:27.040 that I'd know that my son was hiding a eleven 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:29.040 year old girl in her house. I think i'd know. 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:32.120 Meanwhile, she's been there the whole show, hiding in their basement, 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:34.319 and so there's just a couple there's a couple of 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:35.840 factors that I see with the parents that they were 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:38.240 trying to paint them as idiots. Honestly, sometimes as a 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:41.160 coming to age show, that's kind of like, I don't know, 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:43.040 not fun to see, but it was just like, oh, yeah, 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:43.719 the kids are right. 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:45.880 The kids are the ones that are right. How much 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:50.120 were you emotionally attached to this show because I think 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:52.360 you see these kids, I don't know how well they were, 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:54.320 and I think they're of different ages, but it feels 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:56.719 like they're ten to twelve years old roughly when this 0:10:56.760 --> 0:11:00.160 thing starts, and then you know at the end, and 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:02.360 I think some of the actors were actually maybe in 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:04.400 their thirties past time it ended. But the way the 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:08.000 story paints, you know, they're eighteen years old, graduate from 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:11.520 high school, and we see him come to age. And 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:14.840 I remember the time where even Will like wants them 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:17.920 to play dungeons and dragons and he wants to hang 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:21.439 on to his childhood, and yet they're like, we've moved 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:25.040 past that, we don't do that anymore. And I remember 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.600 kind of feeling that a little bit of like now 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:29.800 as a parent, I'm watching this going, oh my goodness, 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:33.560 I remember that stage with my kids growing up and 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:35.800 leaving that. And of course I had the two of 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:37.840 you in college. You're both at bay All, you're young, 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:41.800 you're younger brothers, like thirteen, So he's just he's leaving 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:45.280 that boy of stage becoming a man. So it tapped 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:49.920 into me remembering my own childhood, but also watching it 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:52.360 as a parent. Now, by the time they got to 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:55.120 the last season, We'll come to this, I had somewhat 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:58.640 emotionally disconnected. They took so long. I don't love the 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:02.080 way it ended, But how emotionally connected were you to 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:04.320 some of the characters or do you let honestly just 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:08.080 moved on from that. Early on, I was extremely invested. 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:10.640 I believe in season three I was in high school 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.920 and the actors and the show were in high school. 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:15.559 So I was extremely invested. 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:17.040 Right. I was like, man, this could beat me and 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:19.360 my friends, right, like we just found some random girl 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:21.400 in the woods, Like this could have been us, you know. 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:23.360 So that was super interesting to watch. 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:26.240 But as the seasons got later on, and honestly, there's 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:30.080 multiple year time gaps in real life when watching it, 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:33.880 I became less invested. I just believe that they lost 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:37.200 the gravity of the show, and they also just lost 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:38.720 I think where they were going. I think if you 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:41.439 watched season one and then say you didn't watch anything 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:43.600 in the middle, and you watched season five, you're like, how. 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:45.600 Did we get from point A to point B? It 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:46.880 just doesn't make sense. 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:49.920 I believe honestly that season one could have been its 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:52.280 own spin off show just in itself. Right, you just 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:54.840 watched season one and they just were like, this is 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:56.800 just a one off show, almost like a true detective 0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:59.559 that this is what it is, right, But they obviously 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:01.559 decided to do more, and I believe that seasons one, two, 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:03.520 and three were great. When you watch season four and 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:05.960 your five, you're like, how did we get here? It 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:08.920 was almost like there was this this could actually happen 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:11.040 in season one. I don't know if it was almost 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:13.480 like a yes, there's some fantastical stuff too. Sure, it 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:16.520 was almost like this could happen season four and five. 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:19.480 I'm like, Okay, we're just so far gone. The preaching 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:21.440 at us like they're just there was too there was 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:22.400 too much going on. 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.480 But what a story has to have is internal plausibility. Right, 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:29.199 we knew this wasn't gonna actually happen, but it felt plausible, 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:32.440 it felt believable for the first three seasons. Is part 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:34.320 of your argument. Okay, so I'm want to talk about 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:36.000 the worldview behind it, but I don't want to miss 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:39.200 what the show got right is in some ways one 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:41.079 of the things that I appreciate about it. Maybe I'll 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.360 get some criticism for this, but I like the Duffer 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:48.800 Brothers created a It's a brilliant TV show. I don't 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:50.840 again love the way to end. It will come to that, 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:55.200 but there's brilliant themes in this. There's a great some 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:57.839 of the heroes are great. I think Hopper was a 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:01.240 great character in this. He's kind of a father figure 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:04.920 for a generation that's in many ways yearning for a father. 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:08.080 I think that's a piece of what's going on. I 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:10.240 think they got the monster was cool. Like when you 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:13.200 learn about the Demogorgans, it's like, WHOA, this is crazy. 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:15.920 Eleven is a fascinating character. It's like, where did these 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:20.360 powers come from? What's her backstory? There's so many things 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:23.600 that just made this story intriguing and in many ways, 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:26.160 if it weren't for the Duffer Brothers. Again, we'll get 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:29.520 to some of our concerns and critique the conversations you 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.360 and I have had. Finally showing it to your brother, 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:34.560 I think he was twelve or thirteen when I finally 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:37.960 talked your mom into allowing him to see part of it. 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.400 Don't watch this, Love and Casion saw this. She finally 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:43.960 agreed like it created some good memories for us, some 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:48.840 good conversation, and anytime somebody does that, I'm thankful for that. 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:50.960 So I don't know if the Duffer brothers I doubt 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:52.400 would ever see this, but if you do, I'd love 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:54.920 to interview you. I'd love to hear the backstory. I'd 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:57.280 love to just have a conversation about how you came 0:14:57.360 --> 0:14:59.360 up with these characters and how you wove in some 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:03.240 of the ideas behind it. Let's have that conversation if 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:06.720 you happen to see it. Now, with that said, I've 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:09.040 got to take on the worldview behind this that I 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:12.840 haven't heard a lot of people giving. When we first 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:16.600 started watching season one again, this is twenty sixteen, So 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:21.200 July twenty sixteen is around the time Trump got the 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:25.920 Republican nomination, if I'm not mistaken, and it finished December thirty, 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:29.560 first twenty twenty five, roughly a decade this cover, So 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:32.479 for ten years people were talking about and watching and analyzing, 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:36.440 think about this show. That's a pretty remarkable feat. But 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:38.360 when it came out and we're watching the first season, 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:43.000 I'm thinking, oh, this is a supernatural story. There's a 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:47.000 demonic element to this. And so you have this upside 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:49.760 down world you learn about, which clearly is like a 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:53.040 hell type state. There's no angels in it, by the way, 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:56.760 but there's it's a hell type state. You have the Demogorgans, 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:59.720 and of course the demo dogs that are like demonic 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:03.760 beans and hence the name dema Gorgan like demons. They're 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:08.360 playing off that. You have the mind flayer that possesses Will. 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:12.560 Then you move forward and you have Vetna in season four, 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:17.280 who's clearly a Satan type figure, no question about that. 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:19.440 And then you get to season five, and I was 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:20.960 wondering as it start, I was like, are they going 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:23.840 to continue this what I would call kind of a 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:28.520 demystifying of the supernatural. And the piece in season five 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:33.160 was they were talking about this mystical, this magical like 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.800 energy field that Nancy shoots and it kind of blows 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:40.040 up and they realize again, oh, this is not magic, 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:44.440 it's not supernatural. There's a natural explanation for this. And 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:46.080 when it really hit me is in kind of the 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:50.160 early seasons, the mentor that they go to. They don't 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:52.680 go to a priest, they don't go to a shaman, 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:54.880 they don't go to a pastor, they don't go to 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:58.360 some New Age guru to figure out what's going on. 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:01.600 They go to a scientist, mister Clark. Mister Clark, who's 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:05.400 their teacher, who happens to be a brilliant high school 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:08.639 teacher by the way, he's brilliant. And that told me. 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:11.040 I was like, oh, wait a minute. They're giving the 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:15.840 appearance after as if this is supernatural, but they're slowly 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:20.960 subverting it one by one and explaining things away naturalistically. 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:23.879 So even when it came to like season four, they 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:27.439 have like a haunted house and they have these exorcisms 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:30.760 where their eyes roll back, their hands tweak, as we've 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:34.760 seen in these kind of exorcist type movies. But then 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:37.960 you learn it's not actually an exorcism, it's not actually 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:43.760 a haunted house. There's a scientific explanation for it. And 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:48.320 so I actually think the worldview behind this is not supernaturalism. 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:52.960 It's actually naturalism. Now a lot of science fiction films 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:56.199 and TV shows will do this. By the way, not 0:17:56.400 --> 0:18:00.520 All Star Wars is science fiction but has kind of 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:04.960 Buddhist New Age vibe to it, where everything can't be 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:09.680 explained away materialistically. I think the worldview behind this is 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:14.879 they're presenting certain things that we think are supernatural. We 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:19.520 think people are communicating with some demonic realm. We think 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:25.200 people are really being possessed. We think houses are actually haunted, 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:29.320 we think there's demon type beings. But really, if you 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:32.679 probe far enough, what we learn in the last season 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:36.679 is they're like, you know, Vekna Henry is only human. 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:41.399 We're reminded of that, and there's actually a scientific explanation 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:46.680 for things. So the worldview underling Stranger Things is naturalism. 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:50.919 I don't think it's actually supernaturalism, agree disagree anything to 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:52.960 that challenge that what do you think one hundred percent? 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:54.400 Agree with you that there's naturalism? 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:57.359 Even from season one, there's always an explanation. Right in 0:18:57.400 --> 0:18:59.919 the beginning, you don't see the demogorgan, you don't know 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:01.919 what it is. All you see is a shado out, 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:04.320 especially when Will is running right now, they had to 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:06.639 like rereck on some things because when the demo Gorgan's 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:11.040 originally chasing Will, right, like he uses actually telekinesis right 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:13.679 to move the chain off and open the door. We 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:16.199 never see a dema Gorgon do that ever again. 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:18.879 Right. And so in the beginning, I remember I was 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:19.600 twelve years old. 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:22.080 I was Shane's age. I was, yeah, I was twelve 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:24.879 years old. I was moderately scared. I remember seeing that. 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:26.760 I was like, oh my gosh, like, is this gonna 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:27.280 be demonic? 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:29.720 Show? Didn't know what was going on, right, But then 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:31.840 it was like, oh, nope, it is almost like an 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:34.919 alien like figure, right, that's from another realm. Right, But 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:38.560 it did carry on that demonic form, right, especially with 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:41.639 the mind flare, right when you really really understood that 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:44.639 it was actually possessing Will and entering his body and so, 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:47.239 but then there was always a naturalistic explanation that it 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:48.640