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Speaker 1: Life audio. Stranger Things is Netflix's most popular TV series ever,

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Speaker 1: with over one point two billion views. Why has this

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Speaker 1: show been so popular? What did it get right? Why

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Speaker 1: did it get wrong? What might agen Zer, my son Scotti,

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Speaker 1: and agen Xer think about it? Given that this show

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Speaker 1: was made for gen X and for gen Z, thought

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Speaker 1: I'd bring my son on to break down me. You ready,

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Speaker 1: rock and roll? Let's do it all right? So before

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Speaker 1: we jump in, let's just briefly talk about what Stranger

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Speaker 1: Things is about. It starts in November nineteen eighty three,

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Speaker 1: and by the way, I was about seven years old

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Speaker 1: when this show is placed in and it's a group

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Speaker 1: of boys who are playing dungeons and dragons at the beginning.

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Speaker 1: But what happens is in this small town, these seemingly

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Speaker 1: supernatural things start to take place. There's kidnappings, there's appearance

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Speaker 1: of a monster. There's clearly this seemingly super natural realm

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Speaker 1: breaking through. And as we moved through five seasons, we

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Speaker 1: learn more and more about this realm breaking into Hawkins, Indiana,

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Speaker 1: and how the kids respond and defeat the bad guys.

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Speaker 1: Anything you'd add, just in terms of quickly what this

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Speaker 1: show is about. I think you actually nailed it. I

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Speaker 1: think it's perfect, all right. So what I want to

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Speaker 1: know from you is, I'm really curious. It is fascinating

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Speaker 1: that this show is written with two audiences in mind,

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Speaker 1: a little bit like Cobra Kai, which hit my generation

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Speaker 1: watching Cobra you know, watching cry to Kid as a kid,

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Speaker 1: and then your generation that's new. It's kind of written

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Speaker 1: for both generations. Again, one point two billion views, which

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Speaker 1: is insane. Why do you think this show has been

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Speaker 1: so popular?

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Speaker 2: One, I remember, I think I was in seventh grade

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Speaker 2: when this show came out, and there was just something

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Speaker 2: different about it. For one, it was Netflix's first Netflix

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Speaker 2: branded show. Right when it came out on Netflix, people

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Speaker 2: were like, what is this? Netflix is making TV shows now,

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Speaker 2: so remember that. But there's also there was this mystery

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Speaker 2: is horror, especially from season one, and also the kids.

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Speaker 2: My generation was really able to resonate with the kids

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Speaker 2: because frankly, we were like the same age. I think

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Speaker 2: they're a little bit younger in the show, but the actors'

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Speaker 2: ages were about the same age that I was, So

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Speaker 2: I could see myself as those kids right taking place

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Speaker 2: in the eighties where you were as a kid. And

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Speaker 2: I think that that really gravitated and there was just

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Speaker 2: so many questions that this show brought up, and honestly,

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Speaker 2: it really captivated our generation.

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Speaker 1: So do you think for your generation, Like one of

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Speaker 1: the things I enjoyed is a dad was showing you

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Speaker 1: some of the TV shows and movies that were meaningful

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Speaker 1: to me as a kid. I remember the first time

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Speaker 1: I showed you Star Wars, sitting in our bedroom, telling

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Speaker 1: your mom, we're watching Star Wars. I don't know, maybe

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Speaker 1: I can't remember, maybe you're eight or ten years old,

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Speaker 1: whatever it was. Some of the other shows like Karate Kid,

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Speaker 1: some of these shows I've shared with you. It's a

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Speaker 1: fun thing parents do with their kids. Is this show

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Speaker 1: meaningful enough to you and your generation that when you

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Speaker 1: have kids some day you'll want to show them this

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Speaker 1: or would you not rank it quite that high? I

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Speaker 1: would have.

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Speaker 2: For the first three seasons, I absolutely loved this show.

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Speaker 2: The last two seasons to me, were a massive disappointment

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Speaker 2: that honestly, I think I will show my kids it,

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Speaker 2: but it didn't hold the gravity that the first three

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Speaker 2: seasons had, and it was a really big letdown for me.

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Speaker 2: But one of the reasons why I absolutely like Love

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Speaker 2: Stranger Things was I think for our generation, right when

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Speaker 2: you look at it, For you guys got you grew up.

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Speaker 1: You had Star Wars and original movie.

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Speaker 2: You had Indiana Jones, you had Rambo, you had Rocky,

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Speaker 2: all those different movies.

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Speaker 1: Our generation doesn't have a lot of original movies.

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Speaker 2: What we have is TV shows, right, And so what

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Speaker 2: we loved about Strangers Things was this is an entire

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Speaker 2: original cast. A lot of the actors were also not

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Speaker 2: people that we really knew about, right, Even the mom Joyce.

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Speaker 2: I knew she was a big eighty star, but we

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Speaker 2: didn't really know who she was, right. And all these

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Speaker 2: kids came out of nowhere, and honestly, we just fell

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Speaker 2: in love with them. And they're all still one of

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Speaker 2: the most famous stars to this day. All of them

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Speaker 2: have millions and millions of followers, and I think they're

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Speaker 2: all pretty good actors.

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Speaker 1: So you did hit on in part why this show

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Speaker 1: is so popular is that it simultaneously reaches two demographics.

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Speaker 1: The Duffer brothers actually had said that they were not

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Speaker 1: writing this for kids, They're writing it for adults. But

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Speaker 1: I think some of the language of and the dialogue

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Speaker 1: appeals more to kids than it does to adults. But

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Speaker 1: nonetheless it's the story of these young kids bonding together.

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Speaker 1: But it also for my generation. You know, I grew

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Speaker 1: up roughly around that time, so I remember hanging out

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Speaker 1: at malls. Of course, I remember all the songs that

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Speaker 1: they had. I remember the dress, and they did a

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Speaker 1: good job as a whole of painting what the eighties

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Speaker 1: felt like leaving at home telling your parents. I remember

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Speaker 1: I would just take off on my bike and I'd

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Speaker 1: tell your Granmy. I was like, you know, I'll be

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Speaker 1: back at dinner, and she was fine with that in

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Speaker 1: a small town, you know, California, not in Indiana. So

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Speaker 1: I think they found a way to reach two generations.

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Speaker 1: When you just think about shows that people are drawn

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Speaker 1: to Netflix as a whole, had that and we'll get

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Speaker 1: to some of our critique. But the characters are obviously

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Speaker 1: lovable and likable. I mean some of the characters like Dustin,

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Speaker 1: some of the characters like Steve, I thought were fantastic.

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Speaker 1: There's intrigue, there's mystery. I mean that first season when

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Speaker 1: you figured out what are these demo organs? It was

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Speaker 1: kind of scary. Like I remember, I wanted almost like

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Speaker 1: twenty four, wanting to watch the next episode in the

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Speaker 1: next episode What's gonna happen? And they did a brilliant

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Speaker 1: job of just kind of unfolding the story over time,

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Speaker 1: at least for the three seasons. So simply from a

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Speaker 1: storytelling perspective and a character perspective, I see why the

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Speaker 1: story has been so popular. It makes it makes sense

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Speaker 1: to me. Okay, so let's take a minute and talk

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Speaker 1: about what do you think the show got right? And

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Speaker 1: I'm curious, and after that come back to what do

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Speaker 1: you think the show got wrong? So do you One

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Speaker 1: of the things I try to do is when I

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Speaker 1: watch films, and obviously like this one, there's plenty I

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Speaker 1: disagree with, and plenty will get to the critique. But

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Speaker 1: as a Christian, I want to start with common ground.

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Speaker 1: I want to start with a positive and I don't

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Speaker 1: want to be that rage bait taking Christian always being

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Speaker 1: critical of everything. I don't think that's charitable and I

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Speaker 1: don't think it's helpful. And I do think this show

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Speaker 1: got a lot of things right. So tell me as

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Speaker 1: you see it what you think you tick got right.

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Speaker 2: I think one of the biggest things that got right

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Speaker 2: was the characters. I think all the original characters you

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Speaker 2: actually cared about. And characters that they brought on in

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Speaker 2: season two and in season three, right, that were new.

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Speaker 2: You actually were invested in those characters, right. I think

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Speaker 2: they had such good character development throughout the seasons. The relationships, right,

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Speaker 2: like you're like, Okay, Steven Dustin are now friends in

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Speaker 2: season three, right that they weren't in the first season.

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Speaker 1: And all these different characters.

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Speaker 2: I think that they absolutely just captivated me, right, especially

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Speaker 2: just as a younger a younger guy, right that the

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Speaker 2: four main guys that were the head of the show.

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Speaker 2: And honestly, I just I loved and I attached myself

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Speaker 2: onto them. I could see my bits and pieces of

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Speaker 2: myself in each one of those characters, especially as a kid. Right.

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Speaker 2: I remember I loved when you would talk about you know,

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Speaker 2: oh man, I grew up in a small town.

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Speaker 1: I remember all those little things.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: That's one of the reasons why I absolutely loved this show.

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Speaker 2: So one of the things I think they one hundred

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Speaker 2: percent nailed was the characters, and through at least season three,

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Speaker 2: the characters that they brought on, whether it was Max,

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Speaker 2: whether it was Eddie, all those different characters, I think

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Speaker 2: that they killed it.

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Speaker 1: I'd be really interested to see if you already watch

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Speaker 1: this as an adult having seen it as a kid,

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Speaker 1: if you'll process it differently, because sometimes I go back

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Speaker 1: to shows I saw as a kid and either I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I can't believe I ever liked that, or I see

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Speaker 1: it through a different lens. So you and I recently

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Speaker 1: were talking about watching sixth Sense and that show. I

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Speaker 1: loved it when it came out, am not m Night Shyamalan.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that is a brilliant, just epic film. But

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Speaker 1: when you watch that as a parent, it was harrowing

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Speaker 1: to me through an entirely different lens of just the

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Speaker 1: horror that that young boy went through and how he's

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Speaker 1: torn of like do I tell the truth or do

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Speaker 1: I lie to my mom so she won't think I'm

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Speaker 1: crazy and reject me. You see it through a lens

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Speaker 1: different when your parent. Partly what the show did is

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Speaker 1: it appeals to kids who want to be a venturous

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Speaker 1: they want to fight the bad guy, they just want

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Speaker 1: to be a part of some epic journey. And also

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Speaker 1: I think appeals to this rebellious spirit that kids have.

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Speaker 1: And of course the last speech by Dusty at the

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Speaker 1: end of season five, we didn't say this. By the way,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be some spoilers here. We should have said

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Speaker 1: this at the beginning. But the season you know, the

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Speaker 1: piece at the end where he just tells off the principle.

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Speaker 1: It appeals to so many things with kids. But I

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Speaker 1: also watch this through the lens of a parent. I

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Speaker 1: watched this going, oh, my goodness, if my son was

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Speaker 1: Will who gets kidnapped and is being terrorized by this demigorgan,

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Speaker 1: I view it very, very differently as a parent. I

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Speaker 1: think they found a way to capture parents' fears, parents' concerns,

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Speaker 1: what would interest jen xers like myself that are now

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Speaker 1: looking back, but also appeal to gen z And that's

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Speaker 1: not easy to do. I can only think of a

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Speaker 1: handful of shows that have actually done that. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: would add to that.

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Speaker 2: I think they did a brilliant job, especially in season

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Speaker 2: one with Joyce. I mean, you saw the pain that

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Speaker 2: she went through when she was the only one that

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Speaker 2: believed that Will was still alive. Even his brother Jonathan

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Speaker 2: right was just like, Mom, he's dead. I remember that scene.

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Speaker 2: It was like, Mom, he's dead, move on, come to

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Speaker 2: the funeral, right, be there with me? And She's like, no,

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Speaker 2: my son is still out there. So resonated with that,

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Speaker 2: But then it was also with Hopper's character. Hopper was

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Speaker 2: my favorite character throughout the show because you saw the

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Speaker 2: turmoil he went through and he took on Elle as

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Speaker 2: a daughter because he lost his right. And so I

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Speaker 2: see exactly what you're saying. I think I will watch

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Speaker 2: it differently as a parent, but I do I agree

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Speaker 2: with you one hundred percent. I think that they did

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Speaker 2: that right as through a parent's eyes, watching Joy, watching Hopper,

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Speaker 2: watching those parents. Now, I do think it is interesting,

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Speaker 2: especially some of the younger seasons. Besides the main adults,

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Speaker 2: some of the other adults are like idiots almost, and

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Speaker 2: they ta hate that picture to make it sound like idiots, right,

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Speaker 2: Like the Wheelers, Mike's parents and the first couple seasons

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Speaker 2: are like idiots. They always get it wrong. Especially Dad,

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Speaker 2: He's just like there, he's an idiot. I remember there's

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Speaker 2: the scene where the police are interrogating him.

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Speaker 1: He goes, don't you know that? He's like, I believe

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Speaker 1: that I'd know that my son was hiding a eleven

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Speaker 1: year old girl in her house. I think i'd know.

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Speaker 2: Meanwhile, she's been there the whole show, hiding in their basement,

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Speaker 2: and so there's just a couple there's a couple of

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Speaker 2: factors that I see with the parents that they were

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Speaker 2: trying to paint them as idiots. Honestly, sometimes as a

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Speaker 2: coming to age show, that's kind of like, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: not fun to see, but it was just like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: the kids are right.

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Speaker 1: The kids are the ones that are right. How much

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Speaker 1: were you emotionally attached to this show because I think

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Speaker 1: you see these kids, I don't know how well they were,

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Speaker 1: and I think they're of different ages, but it feels

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Speaker 1: like they're ten to twelve years old roughly when this

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Speaker 1: thing starts, and then you know at the end, and

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Speaker 1: I think some of the actors were actually maybe in

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Speaker 1: their thirties past time it ended. But the way the

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Speaker 1: story paints, you know, they're eighteen years old, graduate from

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Speaker 1: high school, and we see him come to age. And

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Speaker 1: I remember the time where even Will like wants them

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Speaker 1: to play dungeons and dragons and he wants to hang

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Speaker 1: on to his childhood, and yet they're like, we've moved

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Speaker 1: past that, we don't do that anymore. And I remember

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Speaker 1: kind of feeling that a little bit of like now

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Speaker 1: as a parent, I'm watching this going, oh my goodness,

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Speaker 1: I remember that stage with my kids growing up and

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Speaker 1: leaving that. And of course I had the two of

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Speaker 1: you in college. You're both at bay All, you're young,

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Speaker 1: you're younger brothers, like thirteen, So he's just he's leaving

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Speaker 1: that boy of stage becoming a man. So it tapped

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Speaker 1: into me remembering my own childhood, but also watching it

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Speaker 1: as a parent. Now, by the time they got to

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Speaker 1: the last season, We'll come to this, I had somewhat

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Speaker 1: emotionally disconnected. They took so long. I don't love the

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Speaker 1: way it ended, But how emotionally connected were you to

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Speaker 1: some of the characters or do you let honestly just

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Speaker 1: moved on from that. Early on, I was extremely invested.

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Speaker 2: I believe in season three I was in high school

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Speaker 2: and the actors and the show were in high school.

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Speaker 1: So I was extremely invested.

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Speaker 2: Right. I was like, man, this could beat me and

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Speaker 2: my friends, right, like we just found some random girl

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Speaker 2: in the woods, Like this could have been us, you know.

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Speaker 1: So that was super interesting to watch.

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Speaker 2: But as the seasons got later on, and honestly, there's

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Speaker 2: multiple year time gaps in real life when watching it,

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Speaker 2: I became less invested. I just believe that they lost

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Speaker 2: the gravity of the show, and they also just lost

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Speaker 2: I think where they were going. I think if you

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Speaker 2: watched season one and then say you didn't watch anything

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Speaker 2: in the middle, and you watched season five, you're like, how.

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Speaker 1: Did we get from point A to point B? It

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Speaker 1: just doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 2: I believe honestly that season one could have been its

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Speaker 2: own spin off show just in itself. Right, you just

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Speaker 2: watched season one and they just were like, this is

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Speaker 2: just a one off show, almost like a true detective

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Speaker 2: that this is what it is, right, But they obviously

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Speaker 2: decided to do more, and I believe that seasons one, two,

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Speaker 2: and three were great. When you watch season four and

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Speaker 2: your five, you're like, how did we get here? It

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Speaker 2: was almost like there was this this could actually happen

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Speaker 2: in season one. I don't know if it was almost

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Speaker 2: like a yes, there's some fantastical stuff too. Sure, it

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Speaker 2: was almost like this could happen season four and five.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, Okay, we're just so far gone. The preaching

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Speaker 2: at us like they're just there was too there was

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Speaker 2: too much going on.

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Speaker 1: But what a story has to have is internal plausibility. Right,

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Speaker 1: we knew this wasn't gonna actually happen, but it felt plausible,

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Speaker 1: it felt believable for the first three seasons. Is part

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Speaker 1: of your argument. Okay, so I'm want to talk about

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Speaker 1: the worldview behind it, but I don't want to miss

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Speaker 1: what the show got right is in some ways one

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Speaker 1: of the things that I appreciate about it. Maybe I'll

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Speaker 1: get some criticism for this, but I like the Duffer

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Speaker 1: Brothers created a It's a brilliant TV show. I don't

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Speaker 1: again love the way to end. It will come to that,

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Speaker 1: but there's brilliant themes in this. There's a great some

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Speaker 1: of the heroes are great. I think Hopper was a

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Speaker 1: great character in this. He's kind of a father figure

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Speaker 1: for a generation that's in many ways yearning for a father.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a piece of what's going on. I

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Speaker 1: think they got the monster was cool. Like when you

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Speaker 1: learn about the Demogorgans, it's like, WHOA, this is crazy.

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Speaker 1: Eleven is a fascinating character. It's like, where did these

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Speaker 1: powers come from? What's her backstory? There's so many things

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Speaker 1: that just made this story intriguing and in many ways,

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Speaker 1: if it weren't for the Duffer Brothers. Again, we'll get

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Speaker 1: to some of our concerns and critique the conversations you

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Speaker 1: and I have had. Finally showing it to your brother,

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Speaker 1: I think he was twelve or thirteen when I finally

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Speaker 1: talked your mom into allowing him to see part of it.

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Speaker 1: Don't watch this, Love and Casion saw this. She finally

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Speaker 1: agreed like it created some good memories for us, some

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Speaker 1: good conversation, and anytime somebody does that, I'm thankful for that.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know if the Duffer brothers I doubt

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Speaker 1: would ever see this, but if you do, I'd love

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Speaker 1: to interview you. I'd love to hear the backstory. I'd

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Speaker 1: love to just have a conversation about how you came

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Speaker 1: up with these characters and how you wove in some

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Speaker 1: of the ideas behind it. Let's have that conversation if

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Speaker 1: you happen to see it. Now, with that said, I've

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Speaker 1: got to take on the worldview behind this that I

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Speaker 1: haven't heard a lot of people giving. When we first

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Speaker 1: started watching season one again, this is twenty sixteen, So

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Speaker 1: July twenty sixteen is around the time Trump got the

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Speaker 1: Republican nomination, if I'm not mistaken, and it finished December thirty,

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Speaker 1: first twenty twenty five, roughly a decade this cover, So

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Speaker 1: for ten years people were talking about and watching and analyzing,

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Speaker 1: think about this show. That's a pretty remarkable feat. But

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Speaker 1: when it came out and we're watching the first season,

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking, oh, this is a supernatural story. There's a

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Speaker 1: demonic element to this. And so you have this upside

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Speaker 1: down world you learn about, which clearly is like a

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Speaker 1: hell type state. There's no angels in it, by the way,

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Speaker 1: but there's it's a hell type state. You have the Demogorgans,

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Speaker 1: and of course the demo dogs that are like demonic

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Speaker 1: beans and hence the name dema Gorgan like demons. They're

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Speaker 1: playing off that. You have the mind flayer that possesses Will.

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Speaker 1: Then you move forward and you have Vetna in season four,

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Speaker 1: who's clearly a Satan type figure, no question about that.

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Speaker 1: And then you get to season five, and I was

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Speaker 1: wondering as it start, I was like, are they going

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Speaker 1: to continue this what I would call kind of a

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Speaker 1: demystifying of the supernatural. And the piece in season five

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Speaker 1: was they were talking about this mystical, this magical like

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Speaker 1: energy field that Nancy shoots and it kind of blows

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Speaker 1: up and they realize again, oh, this is not magic,

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Speaker 1: it's not supernatural. There's a natural explanation for this. And

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Speaker 1: when it really hit me is in kind of the

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Speaker 1: early seasons, the mentor that they go to. They don't

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Speaker 1: go to a priest, they don't go to a shaman,

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Speaker 1: they don't go to a pastor, they don't go to

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Speaker 1: some New Age guru to figure out what's going on.

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Speaker 1: They go to a scientist, mister Clark. Mister Clark, who's

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Speaker 1: their teacher, who happens to be a brilliant high school

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Speaker 1: teacher by the way, he's brilliant. And that told me.

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, wait a minute. They're giving the

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Speaker 1: appearance after as if this is supernatural, but they're slowly

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Speaker 1: subverting it one by one and explaining things away naturalistically.

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Speaker 1: So even when it came to like season four, they

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Speaker 1: have like a haunted house and they have these exorcisms

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Speaker 1: where their eyes roll back, their hands tweak, as we've

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Speaker 1: seen in these kind of exorcist type movies. But then

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Speaker 1: you learn it's not actually an exorcism, it's not actually

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Speaker 1: a haunted house. There's a scientific explanation for it. And

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Speaker 1: so I actually think the worldview behind this is not supernaturalism.

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Speaker 1: It's actually naturalism. Now a lot of science fiction films

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Speaker 1: and TV shows will do this. By the way, not

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Speaker 1: All Star Wars is science fiction but has kind of

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Speaker 1: Buddhist New Age vibe to it, where everything can't be

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Speaker 1: explained away materialistically. I think the worldview behind this is

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Speaker 1: they're presenting certain things that we think are supernatural. We

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Speaker 1: think people are communicating with some demonic realm. We think

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Speaker 1: people are really being possessed. We think houses are actually haunted,

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Speaker 1: we think there's demon type beings. But really, if you

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Speaker 1: probe far enough, what we learn in the last season

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Speaker 1: is they're like, you know, Vekna Henry is only human.

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Speaker 1: We're reminded of that, and there's actually a scientific explanation

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Speaker 1: for things. So the worldview underling Stranger Things is naturalism.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's actually supernaturalism, agree disagree anything to

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Speaker 1: that challenge that what do you think one hundred percent?

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Speaker 1: Agree with you that there's naturalism?

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Speaker 2: Even from season one, there's always an explanation. Right in

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Speaker 2: the beginning, you don't see the demogorgan, you don't know

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Speaker 2: what it is. All you see is a shado out,

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Speaker 2: especially when Will is running right now, they had to

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Speaker 2: like rereck on some things because when the demo Gorgan's

385
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Speaker 2: originally chasing Will, right, like he uses actually telekinesis right

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Speaker 2: to move the chain off and open the door. We

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Speaker 2: never see a dema Gorgon do that ever again.

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Speaker 1: Right. And so in the beginning, I remember I was

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Speaker 1: twelve years old.

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Speaker 2: I was Shane's age. I was, yeah, I was twelve

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Speaker 2: years old. I was moderately scared. I remember seeing that.

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, like, is this gonna

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Speaker 1: be demonic?

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Speaker 2: Show? Didn't know what was going on, right, But then

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Speaker 2: it was like, oh, nope, it is almost like an

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Speaker 2: alien like figure, right, that's from another realm. Right, But

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Speaker 2: it did carry on that demonic form, right, especially with

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Speaker 2: the mind flare, right when you really really understood that

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Speaker 2: it was actually possessing Will and entering his body and so,

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Speaker 2: but then there was always a naturalistic explanation that it

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Speaker 2: wasn't anything supernatural.

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Speaker 1: It was naturalistic. And so when you said that, I

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Speaker 1: was like one hundred percent agree. So take ll L.

404
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,640
Speaker 1: You think is, oh, here's this supernatural figure. But then

405
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Speaker 1: if you probe more deeply into it, she's more like

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Speaker 1: the X Men that have kind of telekinesis unexplained natural

407
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:11,919
Speaker 1: powers than supernatural powers like doctor Strange. So even she

408
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Speaker 1: has powers that go beyond the natural world, we can't

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Speaker 1: explain and we don't know really where they come from.

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Speaker 1: And she's actually the reason why she opens up the

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Speaker 1: portal in the first place. Like there's a certain danger

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Speaker 1: to having that kind of power in the world in

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Speaker 1: which we live, and we naturally recognize that, but it's

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Speaker 1: not supernatural. It's actually a natural kind of power that

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Speaker 1: she has, but it is just unexplained, and it's kind

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Speaker 1: of the result of science messing with them and tweaking

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Speaker 1: with them and resulting in these powers.

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Speaker 2: Mister Clark says to the kids, He's like, guys, science

419
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Speaker 2: is not forgiving. I remember being like, what, like, they're

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Speaker 2: just they were so preaching at you in that moment,

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Speaker 2: especially just about science, and yeah, and I.

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Speaker 1: Totally see what you're saying. Okay, so we're gon we're

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Speaker 1: gonna come back to that. It's an important point about

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Speaker 1: how it from storytelling to some of the preaching. But

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Speaker 1: even though I think this is a naturalistic I would

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Speaker 1: kind of call it and it's like a subversion of

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Speaker 1: things that are supernatural. If you're paying attention. There are

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Speaker 1: certain things we associate with being supernatural, but it's like

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Speaker 1: explaining demon possession way as mental illness. That's the kind

430
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,840
Speaker 1: of thing that the show is doing on steroids, which

431
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,879
Speaker 1: is fine, but there's also certain spiritual themes that emerge

432
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:30,960
Speaker 1: within it, and I don't know. This is where I

433
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:32,919
Speaker 1: would love to talk. I would love to talk with

434
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:34,800
Speaker 1: the Duffer brothers and know what's going on in their

435
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 1: mind because there's certain spiritual themes that they just still

436
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 1: embed within this show and they can't escape from it.

437
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,879
Speaker 1: So I think, and this isn't necessarily unique to me,

438
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 1: but clearly the hero and the protagonist to the show

439
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 1: is l Right from the moment she shows up, she's

440
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 1: the most intriguing, she's the most powerful. She really does

441
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 1: lead the group as a whole when it's all said

442
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 1: and done. She's kind of a Christ type figure, I think.

443
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 1: Now again, I don't know if any of this was intentional,

444
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 1: but she shows up, she's totally misunderstood, kind of like

445
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,120
Speaker 1: Jesus arguably is when he shows up and look, he's

446
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 1: rejected by his hometown, Nazareth. She's strange, she's persecuted, she's different,

447
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 1: she has miracle type powers, although again they explain them away,

448
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 1: but she has supernatural kinds of powers. Ironically, her mother

449
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 1: is mentioned. Her father is never mentioned. Her father is

450
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 1: never mentioned. This is almost like a kind of virgin birth.

451
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:42,639
Speaker 1: It's like, wait a minute, we know her mom and

452
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 1: her story, but there's nothing about her father. Why is

453
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,680
Speaker 1: that a piece of this? I find it's interesting the

454
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,919
Speaker 1: name she's eleven, and the name El in Hebrew is

455
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 1: short for the name of God. Again, could be coincidence.

456
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 1: I don't want to read too much into it, but

457
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,640
Speaker 1: as I was reading about this and thinking about it enough,

458
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 1: that's like, wait a minute. Season one, she seemingly sacrifices

459
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: herself to defeat the Dema Gorgan, resurrects and comes back.

460
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:12,360
Speaker 1: We think she's gone. Now you could say the same

461
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 1: thing for Hopper. In some sense, he's gone and he

462
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 1: resurrects in a different way. And of course, at the

463
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,679
Speaker 1: end of the show in season five, again big spoiler

464
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 1: alert if you haven't got that memo. Obviously we're spoiling things.

465
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 1: Although the end is intentionally left open, the ultimate hero's

466
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 1: death is what it's laying down your life and sacrificing

467
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 1: for others. We see Iron Man do that, and you

468
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 1: and I have done shows and had conversations about how

469
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:45,679
Speaker 1: he's a Christ type figure sacrifices himself to save others.

470
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 1: She does the same thing at the end, she literally

471
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: sacrifices herself, staying, you know, as the portal closes up,

472
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: and again we don't know really what happens, but if

473
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,880
Speaker 1: I had to bet based on the show, I think

474
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 1: she's probably gone and they make up a story at

475
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 1: the end they're like, I believe, which is kind of

476
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: this blind faith, almost kind of religious belief at the end,

477
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: which was interesting. But she probably sacrificed herself and knew

478
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 1: that was the only way to save reality. So you

479
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 1: have this broken world in which relationships are broken and

480
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 1: things are not as they're supposed to be. You have

481
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:29,400
Speaker 1: this seemingly virgin born you know that mirrors it come

482
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: in with miraculous powers, misunderstood does miracles, lays down her

483
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 1: life to save all of mankind, and then disappears. You

484
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 1: can't tell me that there's not at least some serious

485
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 1: overlap with this. So either they planned it that way,

486
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: which I'm skeptical of because there's so many ideas in

487
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 1: the film that are critical of Christianity or like with Endgame,

488
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: the greatest story you can tell is somebody who's kind

489
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: of a Messiah type figure lays down his or her life.

490
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 1: That's the greatest act of love to save the world.

491
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 1: So I do think there's some powerful themes in here

492
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 1: as Christians we shouldn't miss. And I have a reason

493
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:21,439
Speaker 1: why I focus on this. I think part of it

494
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 1: is it's just written on our hearts. We know what

495
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 1: love is. It makes sense that the world is broken,

496
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 1: makes sense we need a savior from outside of the

497
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: normal realm to come in and save us. We can't

498
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 1: save ourselves, and the only way you defeed evil is

499
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 1: an act of love and self sacrifice. So in some ways,

500
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 1: there are so many ideas embedded in Stranger Things that

501
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 1: are contrary to a Christian worldview, and yet it rests

502
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 1: on certain ideas that only makes sense in a Christian worldview.

503
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 1: That's how I see it.

504
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 2: Just agree, am I reaching? Tell me for I think

505
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 2: I disagree with you? Is I actually think that El's alive.

506
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,679
Speaker 2: I think that the Duffer brothers did not plan on

507
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 2: what they were what they were doing right now, I

508
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,640
Speaker 2: do see what you're saying in terms of her being

509
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 2: a christ like figure and her sacrificing herself, But I

510
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 2: don't believe that that's what they were intending to do whatsoever.

511
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 2: So actually we do agree on that. I don't believe

512
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 2: that the Duffer brothers were intending that to be a Jesus.

513
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: Like figure everything. But I do believe that she was alive.

514
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 2: But I would argue that I actually think the Duffer

515
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,120
Speaker 2: brothers have no idea what love is, and I think

516
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 2: they're trying to. They just throw stuff together and think

517
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,439
Speaker 2: about it, right, I think, Okay, now we're gonna come

518
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 2: back to your thoughts on left.

519
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 1: I don't get ahead of ourselves. But please, seriously, if

520
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: you're watching this and you want the Duffer brothers to

521
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 1: sit down with me, I won't. We're gonna have to

522
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: have a debate. I just want to probe and explore

523
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 1: some of the spiritual themes behind this. I mean, the

524
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: name el miraculous powers, those are seemingly a virgin birth,

525
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: does sacrifice her life, promotes and argues for a kind

526
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: of love of mankind. I mean, she is a christ

527
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: time figure. Why did they do that? Did they do

528
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 1: it intentionally or not? I just want to know and

529
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,919
Speaker 1: would love to talk with the two of you. Please

530
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 1: let me sit down and we could explore this. That

531
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: would be so much fun. There are so many other

532
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: spiritual things here, but a couple of things that also

533
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: jumped out to me. Season five was preoccupied with secrets.

534
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 1: It was all about secrets that people were keeping from

535
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 1: one another. So Dustin's keeping a secret from Steve. That's

536
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: part of why he rejected, because he didn't want him

537
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: to die Like Eddie. Of course, you have Jonathan and

538
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: Nancy keeping secrets from one another. You have Will's big

539
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,360
Speaker 1: secret we'll get to in a minute. But part of

540
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: what is there afraid of Vecna's going to use powers

541
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: against them. But in part how do they overcome these

542
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 1: secrets by a kind of confession. If I have a

543
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,360
Speaker 1: secret that tears me apart and that separates me from you,

544
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: I've got to confess this sin and then it kind

545
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 1: of draws us together. So that scene, which apparently was

546
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 1: a breakup scene with Nancy and with Jonathan, which in

547
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 1: some ways I thought this was like a Titanic scene

548
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 1: where the boat is sinking and they're dying. I'm like,

549
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: looking now, we're going into the nineties. It was a

550
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 1: confession scene. This is such a biblical idea that we

551
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,199
Speaker 1: have secrets, we have sins, and the way we overcome

552
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: them is we have to confess them. Again, I don't

553
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: think they're doing this intentionally, but I'm like, they're telling

554
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: the story critique in a Christian worldview, but embedded within

555
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 1: it are these deep Judeo Christian ideas that just cannot

556
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: be escaped. So I thought, I mean, there's other spiritual

557
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: themes in this. But one of the things I do

558
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: is I'll watch a show and i'll watch a movie.

559
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: I'll say, Okay, maybe they're critique in Christianity, maybe not,

560
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 1: but what are some deep assumptions that are brought to

561
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: the table and where do these assumptions make sense? And

562
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: I think some of the assumptions in this show only

563
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: makes sense within the Judeo Christian world view, even though

564
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: they use it to critique the Judeo Christian world view.

565
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: All right, So, really quickly, how much does the demonic

566
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: element in the show concern you?

567
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 2: It depends on what you mean by concern, right, Like,

568
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 2: I think as Christians, I don't think there's anything wrong

569
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 2: with watching the show, especially you me having those conversations, right,

570
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 2: especially having it when I was twelve years old, not

571
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 2: fully understanding that I'm watching, right. We had those conversations,

572
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 2: you asking me certain questions, and we were able to

573
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 2: unpack those, and I was able to see, even from

574
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 2: a younger age, that this does have a naturalistic explanation

575
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 2: for all the things that happen in this show. And

576
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,479
Speaker 2: so I wouldn't say if there's anything concerning about it

577
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 2: right now. I do think in season four and five

578
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 2: they kick it up in terms of like the exorcism

579
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,959
Speaker 2: stuff right where the eyes roll back, they're levitating like that,

580
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 2: when I was like, okay, like, but that's when the

581
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 2: show started to lose me, right. That's when the show

582
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 2: ultimately started to lose me, right, when they were trying

583
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 2: to interject.

584
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: That into the show.

585
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 2: But early on I was like, man, like, there's some

586
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 2: scary stuff in here, right, But I was like, I

587
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 2: actually I enjoyed it, right, and didn't think there was

588
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 2: anything necessarily wrong with it, because I also don't think

589
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,959
Speaker 2: it like glorified it like it actually did in season

590
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 2: four and five, right. I actually think parts of the

591
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 2: show like glorified though, when their eyes were rolling back

592
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 2: and it just they added so many scenes like that

593
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 2: that I was like, I'm getting a little bit more

594
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 2: like I just I don't really want to watch this,

595
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 2: like it's it, there's no need to watch it. And

596
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 2: so but early on I would have no issues with

597
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 2: the in.

598
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: Terms of what you mean by concerning your mom, this

599
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,719
Speaker 1: show kind of bothered her. She has real sense for

600
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: that stuff, and I don't. I don't. I don't watch

601
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,239
Speaker 1: hardly any horror movies. Yeah, I can't watch any like

602
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: extracist type movies. It bothers me because I think that's real.

603
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: This was pushing some of the limits of that. Now,

604
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: I do think that the Christian world view is true

605
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: and these things don't have ultimate power over us. But

606
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: when I learned, for example, that Hasbro made a Wigi

607
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: board for those fourteen and plus based on season one,

608
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: and I didn't see it at the time, but Joy Spyers,

609
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: when onld Ryder's character on the Wall puts up all

610
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: these letters and she's communicating with Christmas lights to Will,

611
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: who's in the upside down, and she's asking the letters

612
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: are lighting up. It's like a Wigi board on the wall.

613
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 1: And so they use that to market a Wigi board,

614
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: of course, to make money. But in some ways in

615
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 1: this generation, it can communicate the idea of like, hey,

616
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: a bunch of non experts, a bunch of kids can

617
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: get together and just defeat this kind of evil if

618
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: it exists, and just play with Luigi board. There is

619
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,959
Speaker 1: a level that a show like this can normalize that

620
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: within society when biblically speaking, these things are real, which

621
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: I agree with, I think goes back.

622
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 2: I don't think that Duffer brothers believe that it's real, right,

623
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 2: because even in that moment right where she has the

624
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 2: Chris lights and the words, there's a naturalistic explanation because

625
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 2: Will is in the upside down in the exact spot,

626
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 2: and he's the one that's pointing at the things that

627
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 2: making the light go, so she's able to communicate with him, right,

628
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 2: And so I think that there is that naturalistic explanation

629
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 2: that I believe that the Duffer Brothers. It's probably why

630
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 2: there's no there's no big deal with it, right, if

631
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 2: you understand the problem with an Ouigi board, you don't

632
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 2: want anybody playing with an Oluigi board. Right. We have

633
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 2: close friends right who have dealt with that stuff and

634
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 2: seeing it and they're like, stay away from it, right,

635
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 2: there's some real things that we've seen from those boards, right,

636
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 2: And so I don't believe that the Duffer brothers even

637
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 2: think that they're that big of a deal, right.

638
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: I don't think that they believe that the supernatural actually exists.

639
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 2: I think that they show that in the show, that

640
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 2: there's a naturalistic explanation for everything.

641
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: I'd love to have that conversation with them and see

642
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 1: where their world view is coming from. So I do

643
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: think the show subverts it, but I don't know how

644
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 1: many people are paying attention to that and really picking

645
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: up on it and thinking that I can put the

646
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: Ouigi board not a big deal, cool way of communicating

647
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: with somebody else and not understanding that humans are real.

648
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 1: The supernatural is real, in fact, not just as real

649
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: as this world. In some ways, it's more real than

650
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: this world. And I think at least Christians should give

651
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: serious pause to this and ask is something being normalized

652
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: and accepted and downplayed that the Bible says we're in

653
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: a spiritual battle against you know, one thing, just a

654
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: side note is the Jesus. I don't think ever comes

655
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 1: up except as a swear word. Oh yeah, that's it.

656
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 1: And you know I did this search on I did this,

657
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: I'll just own it on chat GPT. I didn't do

658
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: a full analysis itself. But you don't have anybody praying

659
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: to God. I think there's one scene where Hopper can't

660
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 1: remember who he's talking with, and it's when he's like

661
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: in Russia and he's like, maybe I should play may pray.

662
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: Maybe there's a plan, Like there's kind of this hint

663
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: of it, but there's never like supernatural powers are coming,

664
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: we need to pray, we need to trust in Jesus.

665
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,959
Speaker 1: I mean, none of that. And yet according to this analysis,

666
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: you know, fans have estimated that there were dozens of

667
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: times the word Jesus Christ or ged are used, potentially

668
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,320
Speaker 1: over one hundred in the first half of season five alone.

669
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: I stopped it and I said that to you. When

670
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 1: we were watching it.

671
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 2: I remember being like, they're like intentionally adding in, Like

672
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 2: they would say something and he would pause and then

673
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,839
Speaker 2: say GD and then keep going, and I'm like, there

674
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 2: just says no need. And it was like every character

675
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 2: was saying it too. It wasn't just like you know,

676
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 2: Popper saying it or one another. It was literally every

677
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 2: person had a moment saying that word multiple times. Even

678
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 2: Missus Wheeler's saying it when she's like and I'm like this,

679
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 2: She's like, I'm never leaving my gd kid alone, and

680
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my gosh, everybody's saying this.

681
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:52,399
Speaker 1: Word, and so like, why why would Duffer brothers do that?

682
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 1: It insults a huge segment of your of people who

683
00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:00,080
Speaker 1: are watching this. It's not necessary. Look, I was there

684
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 1: in the eighties. That is not the main way people

685
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 1: were cussing. There were a lot of words that were

686
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 1: used that would not be used in this that are

687
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: not politically correct anymore. To use a dated term within itself,

688
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: that's not how people spoke. That's an example of something

689
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 1: that's just not necessary at all. Why put that in there?

690
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 1: And it just bothered me, example after example after example,

691
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: I read a number of people like, because they did

692
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: this so much, ituned out. So it's just amazing that

693
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:32,240
Speaker 1: God and Jesus show up there, but not really anywhere else.

694
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: There's a few church scenes, but they were not that

695
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,800
Speaker 1: significant as a whole. So all right, So last question.

696
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: The big scene that a ton of people are talking

697
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 1: about is the coming out story of Will, and in

698
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 1: some ways that this is a side part of the story.

699
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: We wouldn't have to spend a ton of time on it.

700
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,800
Speaker 1: But this is like a pivotal moment that the Duffer

701
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 1: brothers said for nine years they were building up to it,

702
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 1: and his coming out gives them a kind of of

703
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: superpower to really the character who plays Will said it

704
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: gave him superpower to ultimately defeat Vetna. So give me

705
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: your take on that scene wherever you want to go

706
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: with it.

707
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 2: So I have like my personal take, and then I

708
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 2: just have my generation viewed with this, okay, with this take.

709
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 2: So my personal take was I literally was I'm done.

710
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 2: I'm like, this is ridiculous. The world is ending, and

711
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 2: we need to take a fifteen minute break so Will

712
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 2: can tell everybody that he's gay, and I'm like, why

713
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 2: nobody cares. One of the things that I said to you,

714
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 2: I said, I would love to know the percentage of

715
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 2: people who are watching this show who this scene did

716
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:40,240
Speaker 2: not make.

717
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 1: Them up, like, did not make them comfortable.

718
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 2: Like I just was like, I swear, how do you

719
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 2: not watch this and be like just oh yeah, good

720
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,320
Speaker 2: for Will. Everybody that I talked to is like that

721
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 2: scene sucked right. Everybody acted horrible. It literally felt like

722
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 2: it was interjected into the show for no reason, and honestly,

723
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 2: it made me upset because this showed me I was.

724
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 1: Like, I loved seasons one, two, and three. I loved it.

725
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,479
Speaker 2: I remember in season three where Robin had that scene

726
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 2: where she tells Steve that he's gay, and I remember

727
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 2: she is, yeah, that she's gay, and I just remember

728
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 2: being like, ah, of course they had to add something.

729
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 2: But I didn't think it was like that bad, right,

730
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:16,800
Speaker 2: I'm like, Okay, they have a gay character.

731
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 1: Okay, that's fine. I think that Steve in the eighties.

732
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 2: Would not have reacted the way that he reacted, but

733
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 2: that's a separate point.

734
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: But I just remember being like, it's not that big

735
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: of a deal.

736
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 2: But when this scene came on, I literally was like,

737
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, this makes me upset because of how

738
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,280
Speaker 2: much I love this show and how.

739
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 1: Unneeded it was. It's so unneeded. Now my generation, I

740
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 1: think has shares my views. We were just upset.

741
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 2: If you scrolled on TikTok, if you scrolled on Instagram,

742
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 2: you know what I'm talking about. People are clowning that scene.

743
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,359
Speaker 2: And this is from the left to the right. Oh,

744
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 2: this is this is as a whole. This is both

745
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 2: this is not just like one side, no literally clowning

746
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 2: that scene one because the biggest thing is like, you know,

747
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 2: the world is literally ending, but we need to take

748
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 2: a fifteen minute break so Will can tell everybody that

749
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 2: he's gay, Like for some reason, that's supposed to help us,

750
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 2: but also it's why are why is everybody there? Like

751
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,359
Speaker 2: this is supposed to be Like when he was coming out,

752
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 2: one of the things that Rob was telling him was like,

753
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:12,919
Speaker 2: you know, tell the people that you love.

754
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 1: Honestly, if the scene was just him, his.

755
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 2: Mom and Mike, I'd be like, you know what, like okay,

756
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 2: I get it right, Okay there they still want to

757
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 2: interject it.

758
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 1: But the fact that like.

759
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,800
Speaker 2: Half the town's there, Like I'm like, you know, Hopper,

760
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 2: who's the chief of police of a small town in Indiana,

761
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 2: is not just going to sit there and be like

762
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 2: you know what, Will yep, like you're right, Like nobody

763
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 2: like says anything, you know, like Eleven's crying, you know.

764
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm like, what is is? What is going

765
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: on here?

766
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 2: Like they're just trying to preach us that this is normal,

767
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 2: But nobody watching that, at least a mass majority of

768
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,959
Speaker 2: people watching that nobody thought was that's normal, right, because

769
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 2: you don't need to preach at something that's normal, right.

770
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 2: Nobody else in that room if if Mike him was like,

771
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 2: you know what, I like girls, I like eleven like

772
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,959
Speaker 2: that wouldn't that wouldn't everyone like yeah? Like of course,

773
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,760
Speaker 2: they'd have actually probably the same reaction that the Dumber

774
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 2: Brothers were trying to give off. And so that scene

775
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 2: like makes me super upset because I watched it get

776
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 2: interjected into the show when it did not need to

777
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 2: be there.

778
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:14,879
Speaker 1: It did not need to be there. See that's where

779
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 1: I totally agree that. One of the other shows that

780
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: we watched when you were a kid was The Flash,

781
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 1: And interestingly, the first three seasons we loved, and then

782
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: season four went off the rails loved. The Season three

783
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 1: of Flash is one of my all time favorite seasons

784
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 1: of any show. It was just so interesting. Savatar a

785
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 1: great bad guy. Now in the Flash, there there's a

786
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: couple that lives together before they're married. They make it

787
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 1: seem really cool. There's a gay character. I think he's

788
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: maybe the police chief. None of that bothered me because

789
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 1: I don't expect the Flash to promote Christian morality. They're

790
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: telling a story about a hero in a society in

791
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: which there are people that live together, there are people

792
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: who are married, there are people who are gay. Fine,

793
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: that doesn't bother me. And then Supergirl came out and

794
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 1: I thought, you know what, I'm gonna watch this with

795
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: your sister three years younger. This is a little girl power,

796
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: this will be a fun connected point we started, and

797
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: they literally sacrifice the quality of the storytelling to promote

798
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 1: this lesbian relationship. And I was sitting having lunch with

799
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,240
Speaker 1: an atheist friend of mine and he goes. I completely

800
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 1: agree with you that he goes. I assess the morality

801
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 1: that relationship differently than you do. He goes. But I

802
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 1: couldn't watch Supergirl because they sacrifice the quality of the

803
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:40,720
Speaker 1: storytelling to insert something that was unnecessary and didn't advance

804
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 1: the story. That's how I felt with this. I mean,

805
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: in some ways it felt like we've had crammed down

806
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: our throats culturally speaking, how important it is to praise

807
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 1: how everybody feels about themselves. If however, somebody identifies, we

808
00:40:57,520 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 1: all have to love and praise on them. And in

809
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 1: this show, the world is literally ending, and it's more

810
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 1: important to affirm Will's feelings and make sure everybody loves

811
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: on him than to actually go out and save the universe.

812
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 1: So in some ways, I'm watching this going did they

813
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,359
Speaker 1: not get the memo in twenty twenty five that it's

814
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 1: not twenty twenty anymore. It felt like, not only is

815
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 1: this a show in the eighties that never would have

816
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 1: gone down that way. I was there, It's so never

817
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:32,760
Speaker 1: would have gone down that way for a million reasons,

818
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,760
Speaker 1: but also felt like a show stuck in the early

819
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 1: twenty twenties where they didn't get the memo that culture

820
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 1: has kind of moved on from that and a little

821
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 1: tired of being preached at. And I think what's just

822
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 1: so interesting to me is the wrap on Christian movies,

823
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,799
Speaker 1: which I think in some ways was rightly there was

824
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 1: some truth to it, is that Christian movies are always

825
00:41:55,360 --> 00:42:00,359
Speaker 1: preaching like the come to Jesus moment is just not natural.

826
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 1: It's forced. It's in your face. It's like, okay, we

827
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 1: all saw that coming. And I've proclaimed to a lot

828
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: of Christians in filmmaking and just in conversation, I say,

829
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:14,280
Speaker 1: just tell a natural story exactly, and that's more powerful.

830
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 1: I think they could have just told a natural story

831
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: because I can remember growing up in the eighties in

832
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: the early nineties. Even though I'm a Christian and hold

833
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 1: a Christian sexual ethic, I didn't always see it at

834
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 1: the time, but looking back at the language that was used,

835
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 1: the way people were treated is totally out of line,

836
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,720
Speaker 1: and look back, I'm like, WHOA like that was really

837
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: messed up. They could have just naturally woven that in there.

838
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 1: So a thought so respecting their audience in the sense of, oh,

839
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 1: we'll pick up on that and see that we've improved

840
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 1: in the way they think society should improve. But instead,

841
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 1: as somebody who's watching this, I feel like they're insulting

842
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,879
Speaker 1: my intelligence and stopping the story to go, okay, now

843
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: we've got our commercial to preach at you, and then

844
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 1: back to literally saving the world from there. It's just

845
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:10,399
Speaker 1: it's bad storytelling. Its smacks of preaching at somebody. So

846
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: the best stories are those that you kind of discover

847
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: and they feel natural, rather than being told what you're

848
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,760
Speaker 1: supposed to think. You walk away and you maybe rethink things,

849
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 1: maybe you see it a little bit differently, maybe it's

850
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 1: provoked thought. I think they had an opportunity to do

851
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 1: that and just didn't do so so that scene in

852
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: itself my Christian ethic aside in which we could talk

853
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: about all those issues. And I've done a ton of

854
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 1: videos here people can watch to figure out my position

855
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: on marriage and sexuality and LGBTQ. But just from a

856
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 1: filmmaking and a storytelling perspective, I thought it was just.

857
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 1: And the last thing I'll say you hinted at this

858
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:55,959
Speaker 1: earlier is back in season three when Robin comes out.

859
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,240
Speaker 1: When I'm watched that on going, that conversation didn't happen

860
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:03,880
Speaker 1: anyway where in the eighties. Ever, the way they framed

861
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 1: it there in that same season, when the kids are

862
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 1: trying to break a code dust he has to reach

863
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 1: out to his girlfriend and get a number, I think

864
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 1: it was like Plank's constant. If I could be totally

865
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: butchering this, but the number they get was not reflective

866
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 1: of the time in which the movie took place. And

867
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: all these people criticized you didn't get the eighties right,

868
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 1: I'm going, why are we picking on this and not that?

869
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 1: Because it's driven by an agenda and it's driven by

870
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:36,919
Speaker 1: a worldview. That's what I think is behind this. So again,

871
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 1: Duff Brothers, if I'm wrong, let's talk about it. Explain

872
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,800
Speaker 1: where you're coming from, Explain why you think this is

873
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 1: a part of the story and we should assess it differently.

874
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 1: I would love to have that conversation with you. Anything

875
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 1: else you want to add about the show as we

876
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: wrap up.

877
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 2: No, my biggest thing was is I absolutely adored season

878
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 2: one through three.

879
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:58,399
Speaker 1: It was awesome. I felt like I was growing up

880
00:44:58,440 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 1: with the show.

881
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 2: And then they just took this time get But I

882
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 2: know there was COVID and the writers' strike and all

883
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 2: these things, and just there were other shows that came

884
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 2: out and started and ended in between the show.

885
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: You said you started Trump's presidency.

886
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 2: I was like, holy cow, Like it literally went through

887
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 2: his entire presidency and Biden's Like. It was a long,

888
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 2: long show, and I think that that was to the

889
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 2: detriment of it, right. I believe that they stretched it

890
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 2: out too far. Sometimes you got to just end a show.

891
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 2: We talked about the Flash, right, that went way too long.

892
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 2: They should have just ended it after season three, right,

893
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 2: And so I believe that that was super disappointing, especially

894
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 2: the way, especially the way it four and five went,

895
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 2: and just the continued preaching and honestly, the more people

896
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 2: I talked to, we were very.

897
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 1: Upset with that last scene. I was very upset.

898
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 2: I've never watched Lost, and I know you've shared your

899
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 2: opinions on how that show just completely went to crap

900
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 2: at the end and end horrible. That's how I feel

901
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 2: this show honestly went. The first three seasons, I would

902
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:52,800
Speaker 2: give nine out of ten. That's how good of a

903
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 2: show I thought it was. The last two seasons. At best,

904
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:55,800
Speaker 2: I give.

905
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: It three out of ten. At best, Wow, three out

906
00:45:58,040 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 1: of ten. All Right, you heard it from a gen

907
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:02,399
Speaker 1: and a gen xer. Let me know if these kind

908
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 1: of reviews are helpful to you. I don't do a

909
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 1: ton of movie reviews here, but if I can bring

910
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,840
Speaker 1: hopefully a cultural maybe an apologetic or worldview perspective issues,

911
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 1: that's what I want to do on this channel. So

912
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:14,760
Speaker 1: let me know that you agree with what you said.

913
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: Do you disagree? I want to go through and read

914
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 1: a lot of these comments because I've been watching this

915
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 1: show for a decade and I'm really curious what you think.

916
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: Make sure you hit subscribe. We've got some fascinating conversations

917
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 1: coming up in twenty twenty six you will not want

918
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 1: to miss. And if you thought about staying apologetics. We'd

919
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: love to have you in our apologetics program we do

920
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 1: at Talb School Theology. We do some cultural apologetics. We

921
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 1: have classes on this as well as problem of Evil

922
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 1: intelligien design evidence for the Bible. Information is below, and

923
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 1: we have a full distance program as well. All right,

924
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 1: we'll see you next time. Hey friends, if you enjoyed

925
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: this show, please hit that fall button on your podcast app.

926
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 1: Most of you tuning in haven't done this yet and

927
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 1: it makes a huge difference in helping us reach and

928
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: e quit more peace and build community. And please consider

929
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:06,760
Speaker 1: leaving a podcast review. Every review helps. Thanks for listening

930
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 1: to the Sean McDowell Show, brought to you by Talbot

931
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 1: School of Theology at Biola University, where we have on

932
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 1: campus and online programs and apologetic spiritual formation, marriage and family,

933
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: Bible and so much more. We would love to train

934
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: you to more effectively live, teach, and defend the Christian

935
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:25,399
Speaker 1: faith today and we will see you when the next

936
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 1: episode drops.