1 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: Life Audio. This is Donna Jones and you are listening 2 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: to That's just what I needed. Hey, friend, if you've 3 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: ever been in a conversation where you've walked away thinking, Wow, 4 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 1: that was just what I needed, you know how life 5 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 1: giving that can be, Well, that's what this podcast is 6 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: all about. We're women who want to know, love, and 7 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: follow God in our real lives, but sometimes wonder just 8 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:35,160 Speaker 1: how to do it. So each week we'll talk about 9 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:37,480 Speaker 1: what following God looks like in the midst of daily 10 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: demands and crazy cultural chaos. Because this isn't just what 11 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 1: we need, it's actually exactly what we need. Hey, hey, 12 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: my friend, welcome back to another episode. I of course 13 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: am so glad you're here. I have a fabulous guest 14 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: for you that I cannot wait for you to meet. 15 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: But before we get to that, let's connect on social media. Yeah, 16 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: if we don't already, you'll find me on Instagram at 17 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: Donna A. Jones or Facebook Donna Jones, Speaker and author, 18 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: and I have a monthly newsletter that I send out 19 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: spiritual encouragement. You will love it. If you're like me, 20 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 1: you need somebody just to pop into your inbox about 21 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: every three weeks. Four weeks to give you just that 22 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: dose of spiritual encouragement, that dose of biblical wisdom that 23 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: you need. So you can sign up for that on 24 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 1: my website at Donna Jones dot org. And if you 25 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: head on over there, you'll also find that I have 26 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 1: lots of free resources. You can find my speaking schedule. 27 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: I'm going to be in northern California and Oregon in June, 28 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: all kinds of places. So I would love to have 29 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 1: you join one of the events that I'll be speaking for, 30 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: or if your organization or church need a speaker, I 31 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,919 Speaker 1: would love to come serve Jesus by your side. Well, 32 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: let's turn the corner and let me introduce you to 33 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: my friend, Natalia drum Well. Natalie, welcome to the five. 34 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 2: Oh thank you so much, Donna. I'm excited to be here. 35 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: I am really excited to have you on the podcast. 36 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: Tell our listeners a little bit about yourself, where you live, 37 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: your family, what you do. Well. 38 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 2: I am a Florida girl, So my family and I 39 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 2: live in Southwest Florida. We get to enjoy the beaches 40 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 2: down on this coast of the country. I'm a homeschool mom. 41 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 2: I've got three teenage boys. That I'm teaching, raising, trying 42 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,919 Speaker 2: to launch once going off to college in a few weeks. 43 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 2: So that's super exciting. My husband and I run a 44 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 2: local business, and I am a church girl. I do 45 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 2: women's ministry from my home in my church, just pouring 46 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 2: into and serving the local community that God has me in. 47 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 2: And so I'm super excited to chat with you about 48 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 2: it all today. 49 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay, So Natalie and I met about two years ago, 50 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: right was it like a year and a half two 51 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 1: years ago? And we were just saying we met in Tennessee. 52 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,639 Speaker 1: We met at a conference, a retreat, a small intimate 53 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: retreat for when women who were in ministry. Some were podcasters, 54 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: some were authors, some were I will study leaders, all 55 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: different kinds of How many would there maybe twenty of us, 56 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: twenty four of us something like that. 57 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, about twenty twenty two, twenty four something like that. 58 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 2: It was a good group. 59 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. And so Natalie and I were actually assigned to 60 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: ride from the airport and you had just flown in. 61 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,959 Speaker 1: It had been a hurricane was happening in Florida. 62 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, so it was like a wild weekend. It 63 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 2: was hard to get home too. It was crazy. I 64 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 2: think it was the last flight out and one of 65 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 2: the first ones coming in. 66 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: That's right. So I mean it was crazy, crazy, crazy 67 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: that we met, and I just fell in love with 68 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: Natalie's heart and her drive and her passion, and so 69 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: I just thought, well, I would want to share you 70 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: with my friends. So you have this ministry called girlfriends 71 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: in the word correct, Yes, Okay, tell us a little 72 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: bit about that. 73 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 2: So I had been in churches for a long time. 74 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 2: I've grown up in the church. I went to Christian School. 75 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 2: I'm just a church girl. I've been there as long 76 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 2: as I can remember. And in my early twenties and 77 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 2: mid twenties, I began getting involved in women's ministry and 78 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 2: trying to find my place in things. And at the time, 79 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 2: it was a really big thing for churches to do 80 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 2: like eight week, ten week, twelve week kind of sessions 81 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 2: where women would get together. We'd do these big, deep 82 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 2: video teaching, lots of homework, Bible studies, and it was great. 83 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 2: I like learned so much. It was very formative. And 84 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 2: after a few years I just kind of realized like 85 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 2: I was losing connections with women because it wasn't consistent. 86 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 2: We would grow together for a set period of time 87 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 2: and that would just kind of stop. And so it 88 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 2: wasn't all the time. And I also was in the 89 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 2: midst of like being a newlywed and having young kids 90 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 2: and realized that there was a lot of that mommy 91 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 2: culture of like let's just drink wine, go out to dinner, 92 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 2: have girls' nights, complain about her husband's and kind of 93 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 2: moan about the ministry of motherhood in many ways, like 94 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 2: just how hard it was. And it was hard, and 95 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 2: so I quickly learned that I needed girlfriends that could 96 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,359 Speaker 2: be consistent in that I could be deeply rooted with 97 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 2: as well well as like share common values with. And 98 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,039 Speaker 2: it was just looking for women that wanted the same 99 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 2: things in life. And so I brought it to the Lord. 100 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 2: I was like, God, I don't have enough girlfriends, Like 101 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 2: I think this is something I need. You know. It 102 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 2: was a real hard transition from like college where you're 103 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 2: living with somebody and you're in this like environment with people, 104 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,559 Speaker 2: to like being a young adult married in the church. 105 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 2: And so there's not like a youth ministry for that right, 106 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 2: And so I complained to the Lord, which was my 107 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 2: number one problem, and instead of him giving me a solution, 108 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 2: he said, be a solution, and so I was like, great, 109 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 2: what do I do with this? I've invited a couple 110 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 2: of people, posted it on Facebook, said I'm going to 111 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 2: do a Bible study at my house. I had kind 112 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 2: of modeled it after some things I had seen in 113 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 2: the church of other women who had poured into me 114 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 2: and had kind of done the same thing, and for 115 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 2: whatever reason, their season ended. And began to just ask women, 116 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:47,919 Speaker 2: like what do you need? And it was kind of 117 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 2: this resounding need of like we need Bible study and 118 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 2: we need connection, but we don't have two hours a 119 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 2: day to devote to this. We have twenty minutes, and 120 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 2: we don't want a devotion, but we don't want these 121 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 2: like incredible taxing studies. And so girlfriends in the work 122 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 2: kind of became a necessity that was burst out of 123 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 2: like my own need and the needs of like the 124 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 2: six girls in front of me. I was like six 125 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 2: or eight of us that showed up for this, and 126 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 2: they would give me a topic that they were struggling with. 127 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 2: And I had been a teacher before I stayed home 128 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 2: to raise my kids, so like I would study something 129 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 2: and then create the study guide for it for us 130 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 2: to do together, and we did this every month. Is 131 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 2: pretty scrappy, and we just learned how to create a 132 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 2: consistent rhythm of meeting together every week, being in God's 133 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 2: Word every day Monday through Friday. And we just didn't stop. 134 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 2: We just kept rolling into it in these one month increments, 135 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 2: and we would celebrate, we would do brunch. Now ten 136 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 2: years later, it's become a whole thing. I've got girls 137 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 2: that do it online with me. I've got girls that 138 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 2: do it in person with me. I've got girls who 139 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 2: are starting their own groups that less than ten of 140 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 2: us that started that first original group. I think last 141 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 2: week we had a small group at our house this 142 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 2: week and there were forty six of us. So we've 143 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 2: just been doing Bible study together and then using the 144 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 2: foundation of God's Word is the value that builds the 145 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 2: relationships that we carry. 146 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,239 Speaker 1: I love this. I mean, I think everybody can relate 147 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: to this, just meeting, being in the Word and being 148 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: friends that share your values and that will encourage you 149 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: in the ways that we want to be encouraged. I 150 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: think that is so so great. Natalie, Okay, before we 151 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: hit record, we were talking about something that you have 152 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: been really wanting to be intentional about in terms of discipleship, 153 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: so and kind of what you feel like God's been 154 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: teaching you about that. So, first of all, tell me 155 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: what you mean by the word discipleship, because some of 156 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: our listening friends might not be as familiar with that word. 157 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: And then kind of what you feel like you've been 158 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: learning about that. 159 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, so absolutely so when I defined a disciple, I 160 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 2: have been telling my girls. Scripture doesn't really call us Christians. 161 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 2: Jesus doesn't say become a Christian. He doesn't talk about 162 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 2: conversion that way. Jesus says, followed me, and so Paul 163 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 2: uses the same language in the New Testament letters. He says, 164 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 2: follow me as I follow after Christ. And so the 165 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 2: great commission isn't to go and evangelize to the world, 166 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 2: only Jesus says to the disciples. He says, go and 167 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 2: make disciples. So we have to ask what is a disciple. 168 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 2: A disciple is a follower of somebody, and so we 169 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 2: are all disciples too. Something. My mission is to help 170 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 2: women become disciples of Jesus, and so I do that 171 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 2: through community and through connection. And I think we have 172 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 2: gotten very good at creating community in the American Church 173 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 2: over the last several years, and we've got events, and 174 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 2: we've got women's gatherings, and we've got a lot of 175 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 2: community opportunities. And obviously that I mean I'm building that. 176 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 2: I've spent the last ten years of my life building 177 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,079 Speaker 2: community and connection for women together. And the Lord has 178 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 2: just put a deep passion on my heart that says 179 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 2: community isn't enough because the crowds followed Jesus, but not 180 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 2: everybody who was in the crowd was a disciple. And 181 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 2: so there has been this deep urgency in my spirit 182 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 2: to say, you can come, but are you being transformed? 183 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 2: Are you looking more like Jesus because of the community 184 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 2: that you're involved in? And so working with women one 185 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 2: on one in groups in my church to disciple people 186 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 2: to become a follower of Jesus as he defines it, 187 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 2: not as we have kind of made in our minds 188 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 2: in the Western birch of what it looks like. 189 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: Wow, this is so good. As you were just sharing 190 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: that this morning, I was reading in First John and Natalie. 191 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: It was one line in First John and it literally 192 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: hit me like a two by four and John is 193 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: talking about how we can I'm paraphrasing this first part 194 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: but how we can have confidence that we truly belong 195 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: to him. And then he says, this is how you 196 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: can have confidence if you walk like Jesus in the world. 197 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, whoa do I walk like 198 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: Jesus in the world. I mean, that's a pretty high calling. 199 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 1: It's totally convicting because to your point, I think in 200 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: the American church, it's like, Okay, this is how you 201 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: can know. It's like, are you in a Bible study? 202 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 1: Do you have your quiet time every day? Are you praying? 203 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 1: Are you taking your kids tovbs and Sunday school? Are 204 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 1: you like checking all these boxes? And those are external things? 205 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: And it's like, that's not heart transformation. It's like, are 206 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: you walking like Jesus in the world, And which means 207 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: you've got to know how Jesus walked and then you've 208 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: got to follow him. This is so good. Okay, We're 209 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:21,959 Speaker 1: going to take a quick break, and when we come back, 210 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: I have so many questions about this. 211 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 2: Were you. 212 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:29,959 Speaker 1: Okay, Natalie? So we're talking about discipleship, what that means, 213 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: what it looks like for just normal women like you 214 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: and me and everybody that's listening right now to walk 215 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: like Jesus in the world, or to follow Jesus to 216 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: be his disciple. Do us a little bit about that? 217 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, So, I think the first thing that's the most 218 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 2: important thing that I've definitely seen over the years is 219 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 2: that we're not actually followed Jesus. We're following a preconscribed 220 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 2: idea of what we think it looks like to be 221 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 2: a Christian woman. And we have all of these notions 222 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 2: in all of these stereotypes or these You've seeing this 223 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 2: throughout church culture with purity culture and then being a 224 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 2: Proverbs thirty one woman or you know, like all these 225 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 2: kind of systems that we've created about what it would 226 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,439 Speaker 2: look like to be a good Christian woman. And unfortunately, 227 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 2: what I find with so many women is that they 228 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 2: haven't actually read Scripture. And so one of the things 229 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 2: that I really try to get women to read and 230 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 2: to understand is like, you have to read the whole 231 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 2: story cover to cover, Genesis to Revelation. You don't need 232 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 2: another book to tell you what to do. You need 233 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 2: his book to tell you who he is. And when 234 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 2: we know who he is, then we can decide if 235 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 2: we want to follow him. And so when you look 236 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 2: at Judaism and you look at what it meant for 237 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 2: a rabbi to have disciples. There's a great book about 238 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 2: it about walking in the dust of Rabbi Jesus, and 239 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 2: it was like to be a disciple meant you walk 240 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 2: so closely with the rabbi that you lived in their dust, 241 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 2: and that their dust kind of fell on you. And 242 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 2: I found this so powerful because when we were in 243 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 2: Israel a few years ago, everything was dusty. And I 244 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 2: remember when we came home and I unpacked my suitcase 245 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 2: and I had done laundry and everything. My sneakers were 246 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 2: full of judae and desert dust, like you couldn't get 247 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 2: it out of things. But it's that picture of like, 248 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 2: no matter what you did, you had the dust on you. 249 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 2: And that's what Jesus talks about in the Book of 250 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 2: John when he says, abide in Me, because apart from Me, 251 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 2: you can do nothing, but if you remain in Me, 252 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 2: you can do everything. And so if we know who 253 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 2: he is and we decide to follow him, and we 254 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 2: make that decision to obey the command to follow me, 255 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 2: then we stay with him and the rest comes naturally. 256 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 2: We become transformed because of our proximity to Jesus, not 257 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 2: because of our performance for him. And so I think 258 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 2: the danger of this generation of social media, of all 259 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 2: of the things that we've done with kind of celebrity 260 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 2: Christian culture, and not that it's right or wrong or 261 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 2: good or bad. I mean there's great things that come 262 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:48,559 Speaker 2: out of social media the Internet, Like I use all 263 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 2: of it. It's a great evangelistic tool. It's great for 264 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 2: the gospel, like there are wonderful rights to redeem it. 265 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 2: But we've created a performance metric that's not biblical because 266 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 2: we try to produce fruit. What it's never our job 267 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 2: to produce. Our job as disciples, our jobs as Christ 268 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 2: followers is to remain in Him and so as we 269 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 2: abide in Him, he does the work and then it's 270 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 2: just kind of transferred out of us. And so I 271 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 2: think we're starting to feel that shift into church and 272 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 2: people especially like I look at my teenagers who are 273 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 2: launching and going to college, and they're talking about this. 274 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,439 Speaker 2: I guess gen X or gen Z I can't remember 275 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,319 Speaker 2: all the generations right now in their gen Z Alpha, 276 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 2: this whole generation coming up are so hungry for truth 277 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 2: because they live in a world that's fake with AI 278 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 2: and they question everything, And there is such a resurgence 279 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 2: of young people coming to church that teaches biblical truth 280 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 2: because they want something that's solid to hold onto. And 281 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 2: they don't care about the lights and the music and 282 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,719 Speaker 2: the show or the performance, because their whole world is performance. 283 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 2: They want how do I get to Jesus? And I 284 00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 2: think that's the question we have to answer for everybody 285 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 2: do that by knowing his word. And as we know 286 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 2: his word, we know who he is and we can 287 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 2: do what he says. You can't. How does somebody know 288 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 2: what to do if you don't tell them right? He 289 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,239 Speaker 2: tells us, we just don't pick up our bibles. 290 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:14,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. I once had a mentor that said something 291 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:18,559 Speaker 1: I have never forgotten, Natalie. She said, American Christianity is 292 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: ten miles wide and one inch deep. And I was like, WHOA. 293 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: I don't think she's wrong. On the one, we know 294 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: a lot of you know a little about a lot, 295 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: but not very deep. Okay. And as you were just 296 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: talking about that and just how people are longing for 297 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: authenticity and the truth because everything about their lives is fake, 298 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: I'm just thinking about families and how as moms or 299 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: dads that what's most compelling to our kids is when 300 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: they see us walking authentically with Jesus, and I mean 301 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: really like we're walking so closely with him that they 302 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: look at our lives and it's like it's not religion. 303 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: It's like, oh my mom or my dad. They actually 304 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: have a relationship with Jesus. And there's just something about 305 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: that that's really different from telling your kids dos and 306 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: don't or a moral code. I mean, and of course 307 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: for Christians, we you know, we have a more code. 308 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: We all you know all of that, but one is external. Again, 309 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: it's one is external, one is internal, and it's just 310 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: it's different. It's qualitatively different. And to your point, it's 311 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: really abiding in Jesus, like walking so closely with Jesus 312 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: that his dusk gets all over you. Okay, So somebody 313 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: is listening to this and they're like, okay, okay, that 314 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: makes sense, but like, how do you do that? Besides 315 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: you said you've got to be in the work. That's 316 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: number one. But I'm thinking of the woman who's like, well, 317 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: I am because I'm in Bible study, but I don't 318 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: know if that's translating to discipleship. What would you say 319 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: to that woman? 320 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 2: Okay, first, I would ask, who's discipling you? Because I 321 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 2: think there's this independence that happens in the American church 322 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 2: where we're like, I can just do it on my own, 323 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 2: and we can't, right, And so like, I think about 324 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 2: the things my mother passed on to me. She was 325 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 2: discipling me, teaching me how to care for her home 326 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 2: and how to care for her husband and how to 327 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 2: raise children. We've lost so much of that, in losing 328 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 2: so much of the family dynamic, that we've lost our 329 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 2: concept of discipleship. So we are being discipled, but what 330 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 2: are we being discipled by? So the first thing I 331 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 2: would think is we have to be self reflective and say, 332 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 2: what is discipling me? Is it social media? Is it 333 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 2: a mentor at church? Is it another woman? Is it 334 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 2: am I crossing generations? Am I learning from those Paul 335 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 2: tails us to Timothy and titis like? Have the older 336 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 2: women teach the younger women, and have the older men 337 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 2: teach the younger men. We have to be in community, 338 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 2: but not a community for the sake of just gathering 339 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 2: and saying Okay, I checked it off the list. I'm 340 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 2: in community. I'm good. We have to be in community 341 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 2: to learn and so as we gather. If I'm younger, 342 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 2: I need to say to older women and I've done this, 343 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 2: like I've got my son launching, and I'm talking to 344 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 2: the moms who've launched adult kids. How did you do this? 345 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 2: What do you do with these emotions? How do you 346 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 2: make sure your boy knows to come back and talk 347 00:16:57,800 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 2: to you? But you don't want to be prying, Like 348 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 2: what's the language you use? What worked? What didn't work? 349 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 2: So it gives me language, and it gives me understanding 350 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 2: to try those things for myself. So I think the 351 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 2: first thing is figure out who's discipling you, and then 352 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 2: look at your fruit. We are not very good about 353 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 2: spending time in the silent places of our own lives 354 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 2: and saying, God, what is this producing? And do I 355 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 2: like what it's producing? Because Jesus says, you're going to 356 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 2: know a tree by its fruit, And so what is 357 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 2: the fruit of my life producing? What is the discipleshit 358 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 2: that's happening to me producing? And what am I producing 359 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 2: in others? And then I think we have to evaluate 360 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 2: that fruit. I think as far as like how to 361 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 2: disciple somebody else, I think the first step is you 362 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 2: have to know what kind of disciple. You are first, 363 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 2: am I actively learning and receiving from the Lord so 364 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 2: that I can turn around and say to somebody, hey, 365 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 2: follow me as I follow Jesus. Does that make sense? 366 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, that's really good. And I love that you 367 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: refer to kind of this multi generation because Biblically, that's 368 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: what it's supposed to be. And I think to your point, 369 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: a lot of times churches are like, that's all young people, 370 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: or we congregate in groups that are in our same 371 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,959 Speaker 1: life stage. And what that does is it lowers the 372 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: ceiling on how much we can grow. And when we 373 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: are intergenerational, we learn, and if we're younger, we learn 374 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 1: from the older women, and then if we're older, we 375 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: can pass on things to the younger women, which gives 376 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: an older woman like purpose and because she's keyed wisdom, 377 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 1: so it's like a win for everybody. 378 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 2: Actually, it absolutely is. And I think what's really important, 379 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 2: especially in the church, is that the younger kids really 380 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 2: know how to connect with older people, those that are 381 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 2: more seasoned. It's a beautiful thing for me to watch 382 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 2: my teenagers engage with like their elderly grandparents, because they're 383 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 2: teaching that older generation how to get on social media 384 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 2: how to engage in the inner and so it provides 385 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 2: value and opportunity for the younger generation to teach and 386 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 2: not just learn. And so it's teaching them no matter 387 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 2: what my age or stage. I'm just blank somebody in something. 388 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 2: And I think as we keep using that language of 389 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 2: like what are you teaching others? And how are you 390 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,159 Speaker 2: discipling somebody else? And how are you being discipled? Who's 391 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,360 Speaker 2: teaching you? And what are you willing to learn? Are 392 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 2: you teachable? It creates a community and a conversation around 393 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 2: discipleship that I think is important to the process. 394 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: That's so good. Okay, before we hit record, you were 395 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: just talking about your own personal journey. You graduated from 396 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: a seminary a couple of years ago, and you had 397 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: a kind of a vision of what you thought was 398 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:32,919 Speaker 1: going to happen, and then the Lord's been teaching you 399 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,479 Speaker 1: something pretty radical. Talk to us about that. 400 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, So I actually went to seminary about seven years 401 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 2: ago because I had a publishing situation that didn't play 402 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 2: out the way I thought it was going to and 403 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 2: it was totally God's protection and his provision, and the 404 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,159 Speaker 2: seminary was like literally the best of five years. It 405 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 2: is incredibly hard, but it was wonderful. And I remember 406 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 2: people would ask me like, why are you going to 407 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 2: seminary and I was like, I don't really know. I 408 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 2: just know that I'm supposed to go. I kept hearing 409 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 2: from professors and from friends and others. Mary's like, well, 410 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 2: God will tell you when you're done. And as graduation 411 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 2: loomed closer and closer and closer, I remember professor saying, well, 412 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 2: I didn't really even know to like the week before 413 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 2: I graduated, so like, it's fine, it's fine. So I 414 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 2: really thought like when graduation came, God was going to 415 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 2: do the things like that was kind of the expectation 416 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 2: that had been said. 417 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: The headmans, we're going to part. 418 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 2: Everything was going to open. And so graduation came, it went. 419 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 2: It was wonderful. And I had these like big job plans, 420 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 2: like Okay, God, you've like literally brought me across this wilderness, 421 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 2: surely you're going to take me into the promised land, right, 422 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 2: like You're going to provide this big job or this ministry. 423 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 2: And I remember there was a job that there was 424 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 2: a headhunter looking for a women's pastor in a big church, 425 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 2: and I was like I want to apply, and my 426 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 2: kids were like, we don't want to move, we don't 427 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 2: want to do all this. And I spent about a 428 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 2: year applying and looking and like checking things, talking to 429 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 2: connections and networking all the things. And last summer I 430 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 2: was really frustrated with the Lord. I was praying about it, 431 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 2: which again, so much changes when you pray. And I 432 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 2: remember I was sitting on the sofa. My kids are homeschooled. 433 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 2: We had a rhythm and I was like, they're so 434 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 2: independent now, I could do this, and the Lord was 435 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 2: just kind of like, girl, shut up, Like stop asking 436 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 2: for the next thing when you haven't finished the first thing. 437 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 2: And I was like, but I did. I finished seminary 438 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 2: and he's like no, He's like, when your baby was one, 439 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,639 Speaker 2: you prayed for me to make a way for you 440 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 2: to stay home and raise these boys. And he's like, 441 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,719 Speaker 2: you prayed for three years and I did it. This 442 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 2: assignment's not finished. And it was just the deepest conviction 443 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 2: because it was like, if you can't finish this faithfully 444 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 2: and you can't be grateful for the answer prayer that 445 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,159 Speaker 2: I've already given you, why would I ever give you 446 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 2: another one? And I was just like God, you write. 447 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 2: He was like, stop looking at what out other people 448 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 2: are doing. Don't worry about book deals, don't worry about publishing, 449 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 2: don't worry about platforms. He's like, if I could do 450 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 2: this and make what was impossible fifteen years ago possible 451 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 2: for you when your boys are gone, I'll give you 452 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 2: another assignment right now. The assignments disciple your boys. And 453 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 2: what does it matter if you can build a church, 454 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 2: or build a ministry or any if you don't disciple 455 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 2: the three people that I gave you. And so I 456 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 2: just was like, Okay, this is what he has put 457 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 2: in front of me. It is more than enough, right 458 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 2: Like he has already granted me a houseful of women 459 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 2: that come every single week. He has already granted me 460 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 2: a church that needs my resources. He has already granted 461 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 2: me boys that are hungry for knowledge and information and formation. 462 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 2: If I can't do that faithfully for those three, I'll 463 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 2: never do it for three million, let alone three hundred. 464 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 2: I think it was such a humbling place of like, oh, 465 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,360 Speaker 2: where you have my feet right now is the assignment 466 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 2: and that is the ministry for this moment. And if 467 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,680 Speaker 2: I never do anything else, this changes eternity I think 468 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 2: we get away from that in a world that's constantly 469 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 2: screaming for numbers and followers and statistics and data, when 470 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 2: right in front of us we have people that we 471 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 2: can disciple, that we can form, that we can shape 472 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 2: into the image of Christ, and that changes the kingdom. 473 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 2: And so I think it's just it was really, really 474 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 2: really kind of like a girl'll just shut up and 475 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 2: do what I told you to do and don't worry 476 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:12,640 Speaker 2: about the rest. 477 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: Natalie, our listeners can't see this, but I have tears 478 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 1: in my eyes right now, because you're so right. It's like, 479 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,719 Speaker 1: I mean, the Bible says one generation will tell of 480 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: your works to the next, right, so that I mean 481 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 1: that is our biggest ministry. And you're talking about your 482 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: son going off to college. I remember when one of 483 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: my girls I have a boy and two girls, and 484 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: one of the girls was going off to college and 485 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 1: I was standing in the shower and I was praying 486 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: for her. She was going thousands of miles away from home, 487 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: and I was standing in the shower and I was 488 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: praying for and I was just so overcome with praying 489 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: for I actually got down on my knees in the 490 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: shower and my water was hitting my back, and it 491 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: was one of those times. You know how you have 492 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 1: moments where you just feel like you hear the voice 493 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: of the Lord. It was one of those moments and 494 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: I felt like the Lord saying, Donna, she is your 495 00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,959 Speaker 1: best work. All of your kids are. It was just 496 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: it's like this profound sense of holiness of what you're 497 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 1: talking about, of raising your children to love Jesus. And 498 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously we can't control outcomes. There's a lot 499 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: of our listeners that maybe are thinking, well, I tried 500 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 1: to do that, but my children are not walking with 501 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,640 Speaker 1: the Lord, so this is not Kids make their own choices. 502 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,440 Speaker 1: So I no shame on anybody, But I love about 503 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: what you just said is being attentive to what's right 504 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,919 Speaker 1: in front of you, no matter what the outcome, the 505 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: choices that other people make, whether it's your children, or 506 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: it's your spouse, or the women in your Bible study, 507 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: or the neighbor that you're trying to share Christ with 508 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: or whatever. It's like, just do what's right in front 509 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: of you and leave the rest to God. Just as 510 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: we're kind of winding up here and somebody's just maybe 511 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,640 Speaker 1: they're really thinking about their life, Natalie, And they're thinking 512 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: about gosh Am I a disciple of Christ, Am I 513 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 1: making disciples. What would you want that person to know. 514 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 2: I would want them to know, as long as there 515 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 2: is breath in your lums, you have purpose for the 516 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 2: Kingdom of God, and that there is a God who's 517 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,399 Speaker 2: calling you to himself and saying, right now, follow me. 518 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 2: If you are not following Jesus, there is nothing else 519 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 2: that can compare to it. It's hard, it's terrible. I 520 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 2: have to die to myself. It is the most work 521 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 2: you will ever do. But it's not work you have 522 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 2: to do in your own power, because His grace does 523 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 2: it all. 524 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 1: I want to stop you right there. I'm going to 525 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: ask you something because I echo what you're just saying. 526 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: You said something that I do not want people to miss. 527 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: You just said you have to die to yourself. And Natalie, 528 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: that is something that I have had to learn over 529 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:43,400 Speaker 1: and over and over and it is excruciating. It's excruciating 530 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: to die to yourself. Tell us a little bit about 531 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,360 Speaker 1: what you mean by that, in case someone is listening 532 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 1: and they're thinking, what does that look like? 533 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 2: It looks like Scripture talks about the king and the kingdom, right, 534 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 2: Jesus is king. He's come for his kingdom. The Kingdom 535 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 2: of God is at hand, and he's going to come 536 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 2: and take the kingdom and rule on earth. And so 537 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 2: there can't be two kings. There can't be two kings. 538 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:05,439 Speaker 2: And this is what I tell some. I'm raising boys. 539 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 2: My husband, he's the king in the house right like, 540 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 2: and my boys will buck up to things and they'll 541 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,880 Speaker 2: try to like exert their authority, and I'm like, you're 542 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 2: not the king of this home, and so like we 543 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:16,680 Speaker 2: use a lot of that language. And so I think 544 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 2: that is really helpful in my life. I can't be 545 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 2: king when I want the job and I want this 546 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 2: career path or I want this kind of like accolade 547 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 2: or anything. I don't get to decide that when the 548 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 2: king comes in and says, no, girl, I want you 549 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 2: to serve. I want you to just take care of 550 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:34,479 Speaker 2: your people. I just want you to do this for 551 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 2: right now. I don't get to take that over because 552 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 2: he's a king and I'm not. And so dying to 553 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 2: self is saying what scripture says, I'm going to release 554 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 2: the things of my heart, my desire, my will, because 555 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 2: my heart is wicked above all else. My will is 556 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 2: tainted by sin. There is no good inclination within me, 557 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 2: and I am instead going to let the King King 558 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,959 Speaker 2: Jesus rule and reign over my life by surrendering everything 559 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 2: that I want to whatever his will is. And that's 560 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 2: the Lord's prayer, right, like your kingdom come, Your will 561 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 2: be done on earth as it is in heaven, like 562 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 2: his perfect will is being accomplished. Will I let that 563 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 2: happen in my life? Or will I fight against it? 564 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,439 Speaker 2: And I think that's the difference between those who are 565 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 2: surrendered in faith to him and those are like, no, 566 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 2: I want what you offer, but I don't want you. 567 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 2: And so that becomes a real tension. When people talk 568 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 2: about their relationship with God or why they're not satisfied 569 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 2: or why they're not content in that, it's because they're 570 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:31,120 Speaker 2: still trying to be king. 571 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:36,640 Speaker 1: Oh, Natalie, so so so good. And the great part 572 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 1: is we serve a loving king who has our best 573 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: interest at heart, and we're not. We don't serve a 574 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 1: king that is mean or harsh. Wi we serve a 575 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: king who's like, just let me handle this. I know 576 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 1: what's best and it's good, and it's it's good. New 577 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: Mercy every morning, New Mercy every morning. Yeah, oh Natalie, 578 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: so so so good. So if so someone wants to 579 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: connect with you, how would they find you? 580 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely so, I'm on Instagram. I'll share those links. 581 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 2: You can find me at my handle the Dali Drum 582 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,160 Speaker 2: or Girlfriends in the Word, and then my website www 583 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 2: dot Natalia drum dot com. There's resources, Bible study resources, 584 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 2: ways to connect get into like a spiritual formation, community, 585 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 2: Bible study club, anything like that. 586 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 1: Great, Well, we will put all that information in the 587 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: show notes. And I'm just so thrilled that you were 588 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 1: able to come on and share your wisdom and your heart. 589 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: It's just been a delight. 590 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. 591 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: Well, wasn't that a great conversation? I hope it encouraged 592 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: you and it inspired you. And as a reminder, jump 593 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: over to my website Donna Jones dot org, sign up 594 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: for my free newsletter and connect with me on social 595 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: media on Instagram, Donna A. Jones on Facebook Donna Jones, 596 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 1: Speaker and author and as always my friend. I can't 597 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 1: wait to see you next time, for that's just what 598 00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: I needed.