1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 2: We live in a culture where maybe it's a little 3 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,719 Speaker 2: hard to engage in Christian conversations. Whether that's just because 4 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 2: of who you have seen and who we have followed 5 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 2: as examples, maybe it's because of the cultural climate that 6 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:18,760 Speaker 2: you are in. We're going to be talking about all 7 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:26,240 Speaker 2: of that and more in today's episode. Hello, Hello, Hello, 8 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 2: ladies and gents, and welcome to this sweek's episode of 9 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 2: the Botan Beloved Podcast. As always, it's a girl Kirby 10 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 2: Kelly back at it again, and we actually have a 11 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 2: guest who has been on the podcast before joining us 12 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 2: for today's episode. I don't know if you remember her, 13 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 2: but her name is Heather Thompson Day. She's amazing. She's 14 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 2: a speaker, she's an author. She's also the founder of 15 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 2: cross Communication, which is what we're going to be diving 16 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 2: into today. And I think a lot of us need 17 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 2: to hear about this. Can probably join this initiative, especially 18 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 2: if you are a church, I think this would be 19 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,119 Speaker 2: really beneficial for you. But even if you're just an individual, 20 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 2: a Christian who chronically lives online or is just trying 21 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 2: to do their best to communicate the Gospel in a 22 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 2: broken and a divisive world. But before we get into that, Heather, 23 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 2: can you reintroduce yourself to the people who might not 24 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 2: have met you yet or who need a refresher as 25 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 2: to who you are and what you do and what 26 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:23,479 Speaker 2: you're passionate about. 27 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, so happy to be here, Thanks for having me. 28 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: So my name is Heather Thompson Day And I always 29 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: tell people if I was to distill who I am, 30 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: it's that I am forever a teacher and forever a student. 31 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 1: I taught communication for almost fifteen years at the collegiate 32 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: level and am still an avid student. I try to 33 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: read about thirty books a year to just keep growing 34 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: and learning. 35 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 2: Ye. I love that I feel like you and I 36 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 2: are from the same cloth in that sense because when 37 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 2: I was in school, when I did undergrad I majored 38 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 2: in communications. Would have literally loved to have you as 39 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 2: a professor. Yeah, majored in communications, minord and Biblical studies. 40 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 2: Went on to get my master's in theology. So like 41 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 2: everything that you do know literally though so much overlap, 42 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 2: and knowing that you even just have a heart to 43 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 2: see believers be able to have not just have nuanced 44 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 2: conversations and do it in a christ like way. But 45 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 2: to be able to even like rethink their own communication methods, 46 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 2: I'm like that is something that not a lot of 47 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 2: people are equipped in or talk about. So can you 48 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 2: preface to the people who don't know what cross communication is? 49 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 2: Can you let them know this what it's about, what 50 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 2: we'll do? 51 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. So Acts one point eight says you shall be 52 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: witnesses of me, And so we go out. I believe 53 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: still to this day, trying to be good witnesses for 54 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: the Lord. But nobody stops and asks what that word means. 55 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: And so in communication, I am big in this define 56 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: the term we will often as Christians say words we 57 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: don't even know what they mean. 58 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 2: Yep. 59 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: The word witness, it means something. If you were to 60 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,959 Speaker 1: sit on a witness stand today and start telling people 61 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:22,399 Speaker 1: what you believe happened, the judge would stop you and say, 62 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 1: I am so thank you, But nobody cares what you believe. 63 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 1: Tell me what you have personally seen or heard. That's 64 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: what it means to be a witness. That is also 65 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: what it meant to be a witness in the first 66 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: century Church. I mean, most of what we believe is 67 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: that most of the time, when you see a name 68 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: written in the New Testament, because there's I can there's 69 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: multiple examples where I'm thinking of one the Road to 70 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: a Mass, where one person is named and the other 71 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: one is not. Why is that? Okay? And so there's 72 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: a lot of research that scholars have done that would 73 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: suggest that the reason certain people are named is because 74 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: they went on to witnesses telling other people in the 75 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: churches what they had seen and heard. This was called 76 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: being a part of the living Word. You were a 77 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: living letter, You were a living Paul writes about this, Right, 78 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 1: you had a living testimony that you went around and 79 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: shared for the rest of your life. Okay, Today what 80 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: happens is we all run around telling people what we believe. 81 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 1: Very few of us tell people what we've seen and heard. 82 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: And so I want people to live out what it 83 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: means to actually be a witness. What it meant in 84 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: the first century when they were using that term, what 85 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 1: it means to what does it mean to share your faith? Today? 86 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: It does? I think we do a lot of argumentation 87 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: and calling it evangelism. Yep, yeah, right, And there's this 88 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 1: is going to offend some people, but it's just the truth. 89 00:04:53,640 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: There are literally hundreds thousands of denominations. Who's right. We 90 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: could argue that all day. And I think that there 91 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: is a place. I'm not saying that you don't have 92 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: doctrines and beliefs. 93 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 2: I think we should total. 94 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: But as far as our predominant communication, I think with 95 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: the world, I believe it is to be a witness, 96 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: to tell people what we have seen and heard, what 97 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 1: are your testimonies of faith. 98 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 2: I think that's so good. I think that's so relevant too, 99 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,679 Speaker 2: just given like I feel like even just this past 100 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 2: year with twenty twenty five, or really like beginning in 101 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 2: twenty twenty, there's just been this escalation of anger when 102 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 2: it comes to a lot of the dialogue that some Christians, 103 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 2: because I don't want to say all Christians course, but 104 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 2: some Christians have seen. And I think that's because it 105 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 2: catches the media, It catches, it trends, it goes viral, 106 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 2: like those are the things that stick out. And then 107 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 2: my fear is that other Christians who want to be 108 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 2: a part of evangelism, who want to witness, who want 109 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 2: to share the faith, end up thinking, well, this is 110 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 2: the way to do it, when it's like, is that 111 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 2: the way to communicate our faith, to witness our faith. 112 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 2: I'd like to hear your thoughts on that, because I 113 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 2: think there are some people who confuse boldness with being offensive, 114 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 2: with trampling over other people, with not giving space to 115 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 2: be empathetic and compassionate in our communication. Can you maybe 116 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 2: just like break down like where we have seen boldness 117 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 2: even in our evangelism, confused for one thing, when Jesus 118 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:33,359 Speaker 2: might model it a different way. 119 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 1: So I think the key is always to enter into 120 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: the upside down kingdom Jesus. His ministry takes place at 121 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 1: a time where you have the wickedness of the king, 122 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: You are surrounded by the wickedness of the power of Rome. 123 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: There is the wickedness in the church. Right, There's all 124 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: these different segments, denominations, beliefs that Jesus is navigating, and 125 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,359 Speaker 1: he very really says anything to any of them. He 126 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: doesn't Does he even address Rome. I don't think so. 127 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,479 Speaker 1: I think that's really interesting because a lot of times 128 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: today either you're like pro government, right and you're a patriot, 129 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: or I make my entire identity being anti government and 130 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: calling it out, and we have somehow attached that to 131 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: our identity. In Christ, who said very little about his government, if. 132 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 2: Not render to Caesar was Caesar's rendered God was God? 133 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 2: You know what I mean? 134 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: And then what did he even think about this? Okay, 135 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: even think about this? John the Baptist, right, He's about 136 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: to be be headed by a wicked king. And the 137 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: disciples come to Jesus and they say, are you the 138 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: one who is to come? Or should we wait for 139 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: someone else? What does Jesus say? They're asking a very 140 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: theological question. The Jews have been waiting for the Messiah. 141 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: They're asking him a theological what do you believe? What 142 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: does Jesus do? He goes about healing the sick, right, 143 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: restoring the site of the blind, and then he goes 144 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: go and tell my cousin what you have seen and 145 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: heard experiential relationship with God? And I'm is what we 146 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: are supposed to be sharing. That's it. There is so 147 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: little that you know for sure, I promise you. Because 148 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: again I read about thirty theological books a year, from 149 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: all different types of scholars, all different denominations. I am 150 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: constantly learning how little I know, and I'm like five 151 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: years into this, right yea. What I do know is 152 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,079 Speaker 1: the presence of God in my life. What I do 153 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: know is what I have personally seen and heard. And 154 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: guess what, Kirby, when I share those things, I don't 155 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: care what I'm thinking of. Like my last speaking engagement 156 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:54,839 Speaker 1: I did, I was at a I was with the 157 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: Church of God, which, by the way, I'm like obsessed 158 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 1: with Church of God. Now they are man. I love 159 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,079 Speaker 1: the way, I love their denomination. I love their worldview 160 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: as I'm sitting with them. 161 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:03,199 Speaker 2: Okay. 162 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: Then I went to I was with an Adventist church 163 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: in Georgia. Then I was with a Black Baptist church. 164 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: That's where I ended. All these three different denominations who 165 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: see things very very differently. Guess what, when we talk 166 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 1: about what we have personally seen and heard, we all 167 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: say that looks like my God. Yeah, all these different 168 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 1: ways to see things. But when we talk about our experiences, 169 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 1: suddenly we're reminded that we're actually a part of a family. Yeah, united, United, 170 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: And I just think that that's I And this is 171 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: what I started this with, the upside Down Kingdom. If 172 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: your goal is followers, what I'm talking about won't work. Yeah, 173 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 1: And I need to say this. Scholars believe John the 174 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: Baptist had a bigger ministry than Jesus. No way yes, 175 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: So think about that. Think about a God who is 176 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: willing to allow his cousin to have. 177 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 2: A bigger church than him. 178 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: Dang upside down kingdom. For we on this earth will 179 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: celebrate and clap for numbers and seals and followers. That 180 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 1: is not the way the Kingdom of Heaven operates. It 181 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: is always about depth and actual transformation. That's why it's 182 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: still the narrow road. Very few of us are going 183 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,559 Speaker 1: to actually live this out. So I'm saying I think 184 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: sometimes when we're like, well, I want to be bold, 185 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,199 Speaker 1: I think we want applause. I think we want to 186 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: hit the every every person listening right now. And I 187 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: know Kirby knows this because she spends time online. I 188 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 1: know I know this. Do I know how to go viral? 189 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 2: Yeah? 190 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 1: I know what to do if I want to grow 191 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:51,839 Speaker 1: my platform. I am largely unwilling to do it, yep, 192 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: because that's not what that's not what God is called. 193 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: I don't need more followers. I just want to be 194 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: honest about what I'm experiencing with God and let those 195 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: who recognize that voice lean into it. And that may 196 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: never sell me tons of books, and I have to 197 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: be okay with that because what Earth celebrates, I think 198 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: largely Heaven ignores, and what Heaven celebrates, largely Earth will ignore. 199 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: And only people who are close to the presence of 200 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: the power of God and know the voice of God 201 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: that will be enough to know. I know that God 202 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: is with me. It's enough. 203 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it makes me even think of the parable 204 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 2: of the Lost Sheep, where it's like the world is 205 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 2: so centered around the ninety nine, the ninety nine, the 206 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 2: ninety nine, and Jesus cares about the ninety nine. He's 207 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 2: going after the one. And it's like knowing that we 208 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:51,079 Speaker 2: are called to emulate Christ, to be conformed to his image, 209 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 2: it's like, it's not just about Okay, I now believe 210 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 2: in Jesus and I'm forgiven for my sins. That's a 211 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,439 Speaker 2: huge part of it. But it's also in okay, what 212 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 2: do you actually value? How do you actually approach life 213 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,559 Speaker 2: and people and ministry? And how do I apply this 214 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 2: to the unique lane that you have called me to. 215 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 2: That's something that I've I spoke at a event what 216 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 2: was it like a week or two ago in Minneapolis 217 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 2: where I was preaching to some young evangelists. It was 218 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 2: one hundred young evangelists that feel called to do ministry. 219 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 2: And I was like, before you even go, like, you 220 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 2: need to reorient maybe the areas that you're actually struggling 221 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 2: in that you don't even realize that you're struggling in. 222 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:37,559 Speaker 2: And that was a big one. It's like, you might 223 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 2: be equating your boldness and your approach to ministry to 224 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 2: something that doesn't even really line up with what Christ 225 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 2: has done. But it's what the world has emulated, and 226 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 2: maybe it's worked for these people. And I'm not saying 227 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 2: that what they're doing isn't biblical. Christ could have very 228 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 2: well called them to do the things they did, but 229 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 2: we're not called to emulate that, like we're called to 230 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 2: emulate what Jesus did and to yield and listen to 231 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 2: his voice with how he's calling us to do evangelism 232 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 2: who he's calling us to. 233 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: But I would say this, I would say in I 234 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: would say, as a rule of thumb, it's gonna be 235 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: a narrow road. 236 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 2: Totally. 237 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: I would say, as a rule of thumb. And I'm 238 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 1: just saying this because we know, like when John and 239 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: when he writes Revelation, he sees a multitude that no 240 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: man could number. We're talking about a time in which 241 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: churches had like ten, fifteen, twenty people. Yeah, this is 242 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: not a massive movement that does not happen until much 243 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: later with Constantine. Right, So for much of the early 244 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: church there, even when I think about Paul saying like, oh, 245 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: let them preach, like even if they're preaching out of 246 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: selfish ambition, there's not much ambition to I understand those words, 247 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: because it's not like America where I have a megachurch 248 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: and I'm making tons of money by doing this. They 249 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: were literally some of the people that are anonymous in scripture. 250 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: It's because because the people are still alive, and they 251 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: were giving them protective anonymity so they wouldn't be killed. Yeah, 252 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: so there's very little to gain, only much more to 253 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: lose because you're big speaking is to like what a 254 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:17,560 Speaker 1: house church that could have thirty people in it, you know. 255 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: So it's I just think what we've done, and this 256 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: is very much a uniquely American problem. And I know 257 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: that Christin Kane says this all the time, this is 258 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: very unique to America. But in America we have and 259 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: this is what I would say to your young evangelists. 260 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: We have to stop equating calling and ministry in God's 261 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: hand and anointing and purpose with crowds. If the crowds 262 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: left Jesus, the crowds leave Jesus. Why do we think 263 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: that the mark of our ministry is in how many people? 264 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: It is always in the transformation of the actual people 265 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: you are discipling, And that's going to be a small number. 266 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: But be faithful to that because one transformed person, Now this, 267 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: I believe one transformed person will have ripples that will 268 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: be largely unseen. Yeah, but having seas. 269 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, changing one person's world changes the world. Yes, Like 270 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 2: that's how you go about it. Yes, honestly, And I 271 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 2: to what you're saying. We so often will measure our 272 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 2: own success by worldly metrics, yes, when like the biggest 273 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 2: measurement of success in the Kingdom is obedience. Yes, is 274 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 2: faithfulness to the to the mundane things that we're like, 275 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 2: what does this have to do with anything God? Like, 276 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 2: what is this really the waiting seasons that we so 277 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 2: often dread that are actually pulling out our comforts and 278 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 2: our idols where He's like, I want to refine that thing. 279 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 2: It's like, oh God, it's in these these moments and 280 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 2: these periods that we often are like looking at somebody 281 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 2: else's lane or somebody else's ministry, and then we end 282 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 2: up in comparison and end and it becomes this divisive thing. 283 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 2: And it's like, if you just focus on the narrow road, 284 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 2: the lane that Christ has called you too, even if 285 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 2: it feels mundane, even if it feels purposeless. Right now, 286 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 2: the purposeful thing is to be obedient to where God 287 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 2: has you in, to who he has called you to, 288 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 2: even if it's one person, because he's about the one. 289 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 2: He is about the one. Like I think about me 290 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 2: in that context, I'm like, God, you've pursued me, Like, 291 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 2: thank you that you think I am worth it, that 292 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 2: if I were the only person that you would have 293 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 2: died for, that you would do that for. Like when 294 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 2: you really think about it from a kingdom perspective and 295 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,239 Speaker 2: just take a step back from what we have just culturally, 296 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 2: especially here in the West, yes, have put value on 297 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 2: It's like we have got this backwards in a lot 298 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 2: of ways, in a lot of ways. 299 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: But there's an invitation, total invitation to let his kingdom 300 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 1: come and I and again. And here's the good thing. 301 00:16:55,400 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: He doesn't need millions of us to understand this. He 302 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: just needs a few yeah, the Holy Spirit. This is 303 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: what we know over and over in scripture. The Lord 304 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: can do a lot with a little, The Lord can do. 305 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: And in fact, I would say, oh, let me say 306 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: this to whoever's listening, because I just read this recently 307 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: from Dallas Willard. I thought it was really powerful. Dallas 308 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:21,400 Speaker 1: Willard said that he believes God actually prefers and loves 309 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: to use really ordinary people. And he said, I think 310 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: God likes to use really ordinary people because those are 311 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:35,120 Speaker 1: the best vessels to reveal an extraordinary God. And so oftentimes, 312 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: whoever's listening, you feel like I'm scrolling online and this 313 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:40,719 Speaker 1: person seems so much more talented, or this person has 314 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: such a better voice, or this person has so much 315 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: more money, or this person has so all these things 316 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: that make them better suited. What if God is looking 317 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: for a very ordinary person to reveal an extraordinary God. 318 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 2: Amen, those are the things that I find most compelling 319 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,120 Speaker 2: when I am scrolling online. Is like when I'm scrolling 320 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 2: and I see some twelve year old boy in his room, 321 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 2: It's like the lighting isn't good and the angle isn't good, 322 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 2: but he's like I was just reading in my Bible 323 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 2: and I'm like crying. I'm like, oh my gosh, I 324 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 2: just got wrecked. I just got wrecked by just the 325 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 2: sincerity and the pureeness of I want to share Jesus 326 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,640 Speaker 2: with the world. I'm like, that's what it's about, like literally, 327 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 2: Jesus being like be like the children, Yes, be like 328 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 2: the I see these kids and I'm like, yeah, God, 329 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 2: I want to be like the children. This just this genuineness. 330 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 2: I'm not looking for anything. I am just a child, 331 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 2: Like I am my father's son, my father's daughter, and 332 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:45,959 Speaker 2: here I am just sharing what I've experienced. What is 333 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 2: the truth? Yeah, and it always moves me. It always 334 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 2: moves me to tears. Maybe that's because I'm just a 335 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 2: twenty eight year old woman, But like, genuinely, I do 336 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 2: have a couple questions I do want to run through 337 00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 2: before we get to the end of this episode, though, 338 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 2: And the first one I want to talk about is 339 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 2: we live in a culture where I think so many 340 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 2: Christians can feel like they have to be defensive when 341 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,479 Speaker 2: it comes to engaging with hard questions. And that's just 342 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 2: because there is a lot of and you know, I 343 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:20,400 Speaker 2: don't want to just compare American to the whole world, 344 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 2: because there's real persecution in the world where it's like, Okay, 345 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 2: someone is offended by my Christianity over here, but they're 346 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 2: not throwing me in jail. Okay, cry about it, right, 347 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 2: But there is real pushback, real opposition, real defensiveness. So 348 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 2: how can Christians engage in a culture where it can 349 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 2: feel harsh at times, or where there are really hard 350 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,199 Speaker 2: and real questions thrown at them? How do they go 351 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 2: about communicating when maybe that is the environment that they're 352 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,360 Speaker 2: in where they feel like they have to shy away 353 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 2: from their faith or they feel like they don't even 354 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 2: have the words to say to defend their faith. 355 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I just want to say, like I've this 356 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:02,360 Speaker 1: has not been my experience. I hear people say these things. 357 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: I hear people say, oh, people don't like Christians. I 358 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:11,920 Speaker 1: don't because I have largely often kept a very diverse 359 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: friend group. I have friends of different faith, I have 360 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: friends that are atheists. What my best friend in the 361 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: entire world is Jewish actually a little bit antagonistic to Christians. 362 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: But I've had positive experiences with these people. And I 363 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 1: think it's because I'm not saying I'm not saying that 364 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: there won't come a time where you are literally loving 365 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,680 Speaker 1: somebody as they persecute you. But I don't quite think 366 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: we're there yet. I'm not seeing that. What I largely 367 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: see is people being very combative and offensive and calling 368 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: it sharing their faith. But that's not I think most people. 369 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: And this is again like I spend I spend so 370 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: much time in so many different church environments and so 371 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 1: many denominating and I'm often like, when I get offline, now, 372 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: I do see it online. Okay, let me preface, yes, 373 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: I do see that online. Absolutely, you post something in 374 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 1: People onlines are different. That's not real life, though, because 375 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: when I'm in churches, is this your experience, kurvy. When 376 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: I'm in churches, I'm often like, I don't think anybody 377 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,919 Speaker 1: wants to be fighting. That's not what I'm seeing. Let 378 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 1: me give you one example. I was at one of 379 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: I was in Virginia, very very white audience, probably very Republican, 380 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: and I talked about the upside down kingdom, and I 381 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 1: talked about the importance of caring for immigrants, which I 382 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: believe is central to the Gospel. Okay, because Jesus literally 383 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 1: dies that crucifixion was only reserved for immigrants, foreigners, the poor, 384 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,640 Speaker 1: and slaves. It's very I believe it's very over fifty 385 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 1: two times in the Old Testament he calls us to 386 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: command framigrant. So for me, that's very important. I talk 387 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,120 Speaker 1: about this in what should be a controversial audience wasn't 388 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: controversial at all. 389 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 2: Yep. 390 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: And so again our perceptions of what people are. Oh, 391 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: all we're publicans hat immigrants. That's not what I see. 392 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 1: I live in Texas. Oh, you live in Texas, right, 393 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 1: It's like it's I read a study just a couple 394 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: of weeks ago. It's like over it was like eighty 395 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: percent of Texans want undocumented people to have a path 396 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: toward documentation. 397 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. 398 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, they because in Texas uniquely, like so much of 399 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 1: our infrastructure is built on immigration, right, so we want 400 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: them to say they just want people documented. Okay, I 401 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: think Democrats and Republicans actually agree on this issue. But 402 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: online we make it seem like if you vote a 403 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: certain way, you believe this, this is who you are, 404 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: This is who you are, and you're hable. And it's 405 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 1: just in my experience when I'm in churches, all I see. 406 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: Here's what I see often are people who are struggling 407 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: to pay their mortgage, and they need the help of God. Literally, 408 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: people aren't wanting to. I just I don't even think 409 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 1: they want these political fights. I think most of us 410 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: are struggling to pay our mortgage and we are just 411 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: setting seriously and we're just saying God, God help me, 412 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: and I'm looking for somebody in a faith tradition that 413 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: will pray with me. That's it. Yeah, that's been my experience. 414 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: And here's the last thing I'll say on this, because 415 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: this is what the Lord has put on me. And 416 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: it's actually been since I was in Virginia. It's been 417 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 1: I'm only a month and I'm no expert on this, 418 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 1: but this is what he convicted me of. Heather. It 419 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 1: is not Christian to love those who love you. That's 420 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: human and everybody does that. It is only uniquely Christian 421 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:36,119 Speaker 1: to love those who hate you or hate the ideologies 422 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: that you think are important. That is something that can 423 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: only be done through the power and transformation of the 424 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 1: Holy Spirit. So what do I say to people who 425 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: are saying, well, I'm post and I think it's really 426 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: that you're posting it online because I don't think that 427 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: you're in ministry with people in real life and they're 428 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,439 Speaker 1: like and you're praying with people, and people are like, 429 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: I don't want you to pray. I just don't experience that. 430 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 1: I'm telling you, I worked in the secular public school 431 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: system for many, many years. I have had students that 432 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: were antagonistic towards God that said, I don't want you 433 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: to pray with me, but you can pray for me. 434 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: I've had that experience. And if and honestly, if you 435 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: sat down with these kids that are like that, you'll 436 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: find out often there's been a lot of hurt and abuse. Yeah, 437 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: and often the God that they were rejecting is a 438 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,120 Speaker 1: God that I myself would also reject. If we sat 439 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 1: down and said, what does God look Again, I'm saying Christians, 440 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: just say stuff. When you say God, what does that mean? Yeah? 441 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 2: The term? 442 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: What does that look like to you? How have you 443 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: experienced that? 444 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:32,680 Speaker 2: Right? 445 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 1: We have to learn And actually, I think Christians, it 446 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 1: is only up to us. We are supposed to be 447 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: the light in the darkness to figure out how do 448 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: I love people I disagree with or I perceive to 449 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: be enemies. And actually I was really convicted. I was 450 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: on a plane. I was flying back from an event, 451 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: and for the first time, it just really I understood. 452 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: I said, what if, like the prayers of a person 453 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: who's being persecuted, actually literally persecuted by somebody, what if 454 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 1: they are the most powerful, powerful prayers supernaturally to strengthen Heaven, 455 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,679 Speaker 1: to strengthen to spirit, to strengthen angels right around the 456 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: person that is persecuting them. Because that's how we actually 457 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: enact and take power of cross communication. What did Jesus do, Father? 458 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: Forgive them for they know not what they do as there? 459 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 1: That is how we activate the cross is when we say, oh, 460 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: my goodness, this person doesn't even know what they're doing. Yep, Lord, 461 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,959 Speaker 1: would you be near to them? Would you open their 462 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: eyes that they can see you? May they experience your presence? 463 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,120 Speaker 1: I'm really convicted of that. 464 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,360 Speaker 2: Know me too. And I think with this with this 465 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 2: podcast specific the main audience is in like Western countries, 466 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 2: but I have a lot of people who are tuning 467 00:25:54,240 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 2: in from literally like Nigeria and Iran and Pakistan in China, 468 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 2: and so it's like I think about those people specifically 469 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 2: where it's like. 470 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I actually have persecution. 471 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 2: Yes, say do you have any encouragement to that? To 472 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 2: that audience, I know it's a slim audience, but I 473 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 2: know that they listen very consistently. You know, do you 474 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 2: have any encouragement to them who might be listening, because 475 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 2: I think what you said is very valid for the 476 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 2: other ninety nine percent of the people listening to this episode. 477 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 2: But to that one percent, do you have any any 478 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,440 Speaker 2: encouragement to them in their own efforts of representing Christ 479 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,640 Speaker 2: globally to a very hostile environment and world around them. 480 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm the only encouragement that I can say, And 481 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 1: it's not I mean, there's what can what could I say? Yeah, Yeah, 482 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: I'm reading I just read through Dietrich Bonhoeffer right right 483 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: before he's going to be killed. He's like been in 484 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 1: a jail right still ministering to the people around him, 485 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 1: and he says, He's I finished my race. You know, 486 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: I'll see you guys in the morning. I can't imagine that. 487 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: So all I can say of encouragement to somebody in 488 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: that situation is, I do believe God will give us 489 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 1: what we need as we need it, and I believe 490 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 1: that we will see supernatural power as we are faced 491 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 1: with incredibly difficult circumstances that a human being could never have. 492 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 1: Answers for I trust that God will give supernatural power 493 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 1: as we need it. And just because you're feeling extremely 494 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: weak and broken and discouraged today does not mean that 495 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,400 Speaker 1: you'll feel that tomorrow. And it does not mean that 496 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 1: as you're face to face with somebody that all of 497 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,199 Speaker 1: a sudden the spirit of God won't come upon you 498 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,640 Speaker 1: right then. So that's all I can say. That God 499 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,679 Speaker 1: will be faithful. He will be faithful, and there is 500 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 1: nothing that we will suffer that Christ himself did not 501 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: also suff for. I say this some time to live, 502 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: to love, and to suffer is Christ. And you if 503 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 1: you are, if you are insulated from people suffering, I 504 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: promise you have insulated yourself from Christ. We are supposed 505 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 1: to be in proximity with people in their suffering. This 506 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:27,159 Speaker 1: is all Christ did h. 507 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 2: You're right, He's the suffering servant. 508 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: Yes, And that's why they missed. That's why. So that's 509 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:35,919 Speaker 1: that was the controversy for many of the Jews. They 510 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 1: weren't looking and who. 511 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 2: Is They were looking for their political. 512 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:45,959 Speaker 1: Nature and looking who's looking for a suffering, crucified Messiah today, Kirby, 513 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: If I'm honest, oh, it could make me weep. If 514 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: I'm honest most of the time, I am not. 515 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 2: That. 516 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: I don't want that right. I want a God who Now, 517 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: Oh you see me, and I'm blessed and I'm highly favored, 518 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: and all the doors are going to open and everything's 519 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: going to be perfect. That's not what Jesus lived, That's 520 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: not what eleven of the twelve Apostles lived. Yeah, and 521 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: then we think something's wrong, or we've failed, or God 522 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: has forgotten us, when we experience deep darkness or disappointment. 523 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: I was reading this morning, actually, Oswald Chambers, this was 524 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,959 Speaker 1: so good. If it's encouraging to anybody, it was very 525 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: encouraging to me. He says. In scripture, this is from 526 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 1: my utmost for his highest, he says in scripture, clouds 527 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: often represent the presence of God, and they also represent suffering. 528 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 1: And so when we say we see Christ coming in 529 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: the clouds, wow, coming through the suffering. And so in 530 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: my life, I've been saying to myself, Okay, do I 531 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: see I see you through the clouds, both in suffering, 532 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: but I also see Christ. 533 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 534 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: Both of these things together are actually often the pathway 535 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: to experiencing Christ. But again narrow way, and very few 536 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: of us are going to actually sign up to walk 537 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: that thing. 538 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's this, He is the silver lining and the 539 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 2: sable cloud Yes, Like that's that's where we get that 540 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 2: that that saying of silver lining. It comes from a 541 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 2: poem from Forever tell me. 542 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 1: I don't know it. 543 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I don't know it off the top 544 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 2: of my head, but I can send it to you. 545 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 2: But the person who wrote it, we always hear about that. 546 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 2: I mean there's like movies silver Lining's playbook, right, But 547 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 2: it's like silver lining it comes from this poem where 548 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 2: it's talking about the sable clouds, where it's like you 549 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 2: have these dark clouds, these dreary clouds, but it's the 550 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 2: silver lining in it that it's like, but it brings 551 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 2: the rain and it waters the earth and it brings 552 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 2: the flower. It's like the duality of that dual. Yeah, 553 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 2: it's like we have this really it's the redemption of 554 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 2: God of like this offering servant brought what salvation for humanity. 555 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 2: Like when you really think about what some of the 556 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 2: darkest nights that we've endured, it's like what came out 557 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 2: of it because of God, with God, for God, through God. 558 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 2: It's like, I'm I appreciate it more than I resent it. 559 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 2: I actually am thankful for what God was able to 560 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 2: do through that more than if it never happened, which 561 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 2: is something that I think only the Christian could really embrace, 562 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 2: could really actually embrace, given all of the travesties one 563 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 2: could go through of really, look what God did. That's 564 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 2: the silver lining, Not just well, here's this one thing 565 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 2: I can pick out that I guess is good. It's 566 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 2: like the goodest not proper grammar. The goodest thing is 567 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 2: Jesus that has come from the clouds, that came from 568 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 2: the cross, that came from from a poor woman's wounds, 569 00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 2: and was buried in a rich man's tomb, you know, 570 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 2: I mean in the rose three days later. It's just 571 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 2: the gospel is full of silver linings and sable clouds. 572 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, and Jesus. 573 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 2: Is the one who knits it all together to be 574 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 2: something redemptive. 575 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: I would say to somebody who is maybe this isn't helpful. 576 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: This has been helpful to me. Okay, I'll just tell 577 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: you what I've experienced. This has been helpful to me. 578 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: Somebody else may say I don't like that at all. 579 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 1: Somebody asked me, how are you because my father's dying 580 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: of Alzheimer's. How are you finding like, how are you 581 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 1: still believing God is good? How are you seeing that? 582 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: And I said, so, this is a struggle. Actually, I've 583 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: never been more tested as far as like, it doesn't 584 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: make sense to me God, it feels like it feels 585 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: unjust for me. Right, But here's all I do know 586 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 1: that when I go to heaven, right, my dad will 587 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: have lived what seventy five years, let's say, if he 588 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: passes away in the next couple of years. When I 589 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 1: go to heaven, I believe God will sit with me 590 00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: face to face and say, do you want to talk 591 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: about it? You want to talk about it for one year, 592 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 1: two years, three years, forty years, thirty years, seventy you 593 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: want talk about it for one hundred years, two hundred years, 594 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: three hundred years. How many years do you want to 595 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: I got time? How long do you want to talk 596 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: about it? And as I'm looking face to face with God, 597 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 1: my dad will be fully redeemed and restored, sitting there 598 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: next to me saying, Heather, I think we can let 599 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 1: this one go. Yeah, we will have all of eternity. 600 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 1: This is what I would say to our friend who 601 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: is suffering. We will have all of eternity to understand 602 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: the wise of the difficulties of this world face to face. 603 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,880 Speaker 1: I believe Jesus will give each of us time to 604 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: unpack everything that we experienced here, and when we are 605 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 1: ready right, we can just then enjoy the Kingdom of 606 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: God together reunited as the Family of God for all 607 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: of eternity. What a concept. 608 00:33:55,480 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, one I could not wrap my head around completely. Honest, 609 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 2: it's like forever. I'm like, I've only been alive for 610 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 2: twenty eight years and this is a lot. I'm like, 611 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 2: what do you mean? And my glorified body, I'll take 612 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 2: that now, Jesus. Yes, these hurt. Yes, But as we 613 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 2: wrap up, could you just give one last call to action, 614 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:20,360 Speaker 2: even for the people who would benefit from cross communication? Like, 615 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 2: is it something that an individual should check out, a 616 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 2: church should check out? What would they benefit from from 617 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 2: looking it up? Is there a website they can look at? 618 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 2: Can you just give a plug and provide a little 619 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 2: bit of clarity before we wrap. 620 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,319 Speaker 1: Yes, go to crosscommunication dot com. Of course, we do 621 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 1: seminars and all these different things at churches, but we 622 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,359 Speaker 1: the big push for twenty twenty six is intercession. So 623 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: we are going to be. I have a Friday night 624 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: light devotional that goes out every single Friday night at 625 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 1: seven pm. I've been doing this for about three years. 626 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,399 Speaker 1: We started with one hundred people. We're now over ten 627 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 1: thousand people. And I'll be randomly selecting somebody from that 628 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,800 Speaker 1: ten thousand person community and inviting everybody every single Friday 629 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 1: night to pray that person. So I will call them, 630 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:03,719 Speaker 1: of course, I will pray for them, ask for their 631 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,959 Speaker 1: prayer request. So this is my thought process. What would 632 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,840 Speaker 1: it look like if every single Friday night, ten thousand 633 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: Christians prayed for Sarah in Kansas whose husband's been out 634 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: of work for three months? Well, what could we see? 635 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 1: What could we experience? What could we witness? Go be 636 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 1: witnesses of me? So that is our goal. So I 637 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 1: would love to invite people to join us in that. 638 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:28,880 Speaker 1: You can sign up by going to crosscommunication dot com. 639 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 2: That's amazing. I'll link it in the show notes, so 640 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 2: y'all can click on that and check that out. And 641 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 2: where can people check you out? Because you're a speaker, 642 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 2: you're an author, you have a billion and trillion things 643 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:40,880 Speaker 2: going on all the time. Where can people follow you 644 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 2: and keep up with you? 645 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, Heather Thompson Day dot com hows everything. 646 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:45,919 Speaker 2: There you go. I'll put that in the show notes 647 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,919 Speaker 2: as well. Everybody, Heather, thank you so much for taking 648 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 2: the time to be on here again. I love just 649 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,360 Speaker 2: where our conversation went today. I think it's going to 650 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,360 Speaker 2: really bless and impact a lot of people in a 651 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,279 Speaker 2: lot of places from all over the world. And if 652 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,839 Speaker 2: that was you today, if this spoke to you, let 653 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 2: me know comment de below, if you're watching the YouTube video, 654 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 2: if you're just listening to the audio, and if you 655 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,359 Speaker 2: ever have a question about something, maybe we talked about 656 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,239 Speaker 2: something today and you're like, can you like dig a 657 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 2: little deeper on that, Or maybe you're going through something 658 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 2: and you're like, I need some like scriptural truth, some 659 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 2: biblical wisdom to navigate what I'm going through. You can 660 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 2: also shoot me an email at bot and beloved at 661 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 2: gmail dot com, all spelled out bought A and D 662 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 2: beloved at gmail dot com, and I would be more 663 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 2: than happy to take your topic, turn it into a 664 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 2: whole episode, administer to you and hopefully anybody else that 665 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 2: that topic could reach administer too. So feel free to 666 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 2: email me there as well. But until next time, I 667 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:47,919 Speaker 2: love you guys, and I'll see you here next week 668 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 2: for another episode Bute. For more life giving, faith based 669 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,800 Speaker 2: podcast just like this one, check out lifeaudio dot com, 670 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:02,880 Speaker 2: a proud partner of the beloved Potcas test m