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Speaker 1: How do you wrestle with God through a season of suffering?

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Christian Parent Crazy World. This is a podcast

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Speaker 1: that tackles tough topics to help you be a godly

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Speaker 1: parent in an ungodly world. I'm your host, Katherine Seegers,

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Speaker 1: and this week we're going to talk about how to

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Speaker 1: wrestle with God when life hurts. So last week, my

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Speaker 1: dear friends, Dr. Aaron Berry and Susan Frost and I

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Speaker 1: explored whether it's even okay to wrestle with God over

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Speaker 1: what He allows in this life. We looked at the

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Speaker 1: biblical precedent for bringing our pain, our questions, our complaints,

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Speaker 1: and even our anger to God. But knowing that we

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Speaker 1: can wrestle with God is one thing. Knowing how to

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Speaker 1: do it is quite another. So in this episode, we're

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Speaker 1: going to explore four things we can lean into when

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Speaker 1: when life gets hard. These are four anchors to help

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Speaker 1: us navigate suffering while drawing closer to God, even when

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Speaker 1: we don't understand what He's doing. That's the plan for

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Speaker 1: this episode of Christian Parent Crazy World. For some of you,

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Speaker 1: the idea of wrestling with God may be new. For others,

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Speaker 1: it may be something you've been doing for years. You know,

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Speaker 1: I believe wrestling through difficult seasons with the Lord is

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Speaker 1: a hallmark of a mature believer. It means you're willing

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Speaker 1: to bring Him your honest questions, your deepest pain, and

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Speaker 1: even your complaints. You don't have to pretend you're okay

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Speaker 1: when you're not. And if you're not convinced that it's

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Speaker 1: okay to wrestle with God through these kinds of issues,

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Speaker 1: stick around. I think Scripture might surprise you. Now, as

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Speaker 1: we discussed last week, there are three truths at the

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Speaker 1: heart of this struggle. They are God is all-powerful, number one.

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Speaker 1: Number two, God is all good. And number three, evil

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Speaker 1: and suffering are very real in our world and in

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Speaker 1: our lives. So how do we reconcile those truths? Why

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Speaker 1: would a good and all-powerful God allow so much suffering?

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Speaker 1: Of course, we know we live with the consequences of

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Speaker 1: original sin and our own sinful choices. But when you're

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Speaker 1: walking through a deep, dark season of suffering, knowing that

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Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily ease the pain or even really help. So

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Speaker 1: how do we navigate those seasons as believers? That's what

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Speaker 1: my guests and I are going to explore today.

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Speaker 2: Dr.

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Speaker 1: Erin Berry has a doctorate in Christian Counseling and is

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Speaker 1: a licensed clinical counselor who spends her days helping people

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Speaker 1: through some of the darkest seasons of their lives. And

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Speaker 1: Susan Frost is a certified trauma coach who also does

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Speaker 1: couples counseling and in-home ministry. But more than that, these

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Speaker 1: women are my closest friends. We have wrestled through some

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Speaker 1: hard things together, and that process has deepened both our

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Speaker 1: faith and our friendships. So today we're going to explore

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Speaker 1: four things we can lean into when suffering comes. And

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Speaker 1: by the way, if you missed last week's episode, I

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Speaker 1: highly encourage you to listen to it too. We began

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Speaker 1: laying the foundation in that episode for wrestling with God.

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Speaker 1: And today we're going to build on that foundation and

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Speaker 1: get very practical about how to walk through suffering with God.

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Speaker 1: And one final note, please stay tuned after the conversation

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Speaker 1: because this conversation just really, really sat with me. I've

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Speaker 1: been gnawing over it ever since we had it. And

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Speaker 1: I have some final thoughts that I believe will help

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Speaker 1: you put all that we discussed today into practice. So

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Speaker 1: with that said, I'll take you to my conversation with

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Speaker 1: Susan Frost and Dr. Erin Berry.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back, Erin and Susan to Christian Parent Crazy World.

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Speaker 4: Having the two of.

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Speaker 3: You on the show was one of the great highlights

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Speaker 3: of my podcasting career. It's so awesome to have you

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Speaker 3: both back.

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Speaker 5: Thank you. It's good to be back.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 3: We were just bragging on Susan completing. Now you're going

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Speaker 3: into your second podcast, Susan. And everybody's going to be like,

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Speaker 3: when you're starting your own, you're so awesome. All of

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Speaker 3: the wisdom that the two of you shared in the

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Speaker 3: last episode. Just to catch our listeners up to speed,

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Speaker 3: what we were talking about is what we need to

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Speaker 3: lean into when we're going through a season of suffering.

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Speaker 3: And we spent a good bit of time in the

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Speaker 3: last episode just establishing the fact that wrestling with God

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Speaker 3: is a biblical concept. Jacob did it. And he would

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Speaker 3: not let go of God until he blessed him. And

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Speaker 3: you brought out in the last episode, Susan, that you

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Speaker 3: were in a Bible study once and somebody asked you

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Speaker 3: if you thought that God would have blessed him anyways

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Speaker 3: if he hadn't wrestled all night. And the entire group

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Speaker 3: of people said, sure.

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Speaker 4: Yes, he would have.

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Speaker 3: And you were the one lone voice that piped up

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Speaker 3: and said, no, I don't think he would, which is

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Speaker 3: why you and I obviously gravitated towards each other over

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Speaker 3: 15 years ago when we were in the same Bible

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Speaker 3: study because we always brought up all the contrary opinions,

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Speaker 3: didn't we?

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Speaker 5: Yes.

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Speaker 3: So thank you for bringing that up, Susan. I think

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Speaker 3: this is a biblical concept. There are things we're going

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Speaker 3: to have to wrestle through theologically in our faith. We're

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Speaker 3: going to have to wrestle through cultural things in our faith.

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Speaker 3: We're going to have to wrestle through emotional things, spiritual

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Speaker 3: things in our faith. So that's what you guys do

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Speaker 3: with me.

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Speaker 4: You're my inner circle. I thank you.

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Speaker 3: Help me way more than I help you, but I'm

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Speaker 3: so grateful that I can turn to you guys when

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Speaker 3: I'm going through something. I shared some examples in the

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Speaker 3: last episode of some very real and raw and frankly

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Speaker 3: mortifying things that I really struggled through, and you guys

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Speaker 3: gave me permission to do that. I'll probably reference that

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Speaker 3: a little bit, but I want to encourage our listeners,

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Speaker 3: go back and listen to that, because the first thing

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Speaker 3: we talked about that we need to lean into is

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Speaker 3: is lean into God's family.

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Speaker 4: That's not the whole family.

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Speaker 3: Don't go and share it with everyone, but find that

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Speaker 3: inner circle who can handle your pain and your wrestling.

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Speaker 3: And Erin, what are the two things you said that

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Speaker 3: we need to find people who can do when you're

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Speaker 3: wrestling through a season like that?

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Speaker 6: I can't remember, but I think it was just to

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Speaker 6: sit and to listen without judgment.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 4: And don't try to fix it.

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Speaker 3: That was the other one.

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Speaker 6: And don't try to fix it, of course.

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Speaker 3: Those are the two things, yes. And trying to find

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Speaker 3: that isn't easy and not everybody's qualified for that. It

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Speaker 3: doesn't mean they're a bad friend. It doesn't mean they're

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Speaker 3: a bad Christian or a bad person. But different people

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Speaker 3: have different strengths. And I brought out that maybe you

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Speaker 3: need to lean into this person over here for the

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Speaker 3: logistical aspects of what you're going through. If you're suffering

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Speaker 3: and you just need somebody to help with your kids

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Speaker 3: or help.

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Speaker 4: with the home or.

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Speaker 3: The finances or whatever, they might not be able to

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Speaker 3: handle the emotional weight of what you're going through, but

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Speaker 3: they can handle some of the physical weight so you

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Speaker 3: can go elsewhere to handle the emotional weight. But you

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Speaker 3: do need to have that inner circle that you can

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Speaker 3: lean into. And I didn't say this in the last

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Speaker 3: episode and I wish I had. I'm sure there's somebody

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Speaker 3: out there listening that's like, well, I don't have that.

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Speaker 3: I've looked and I want it and I don't have it.

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Speaker 3: And I believe that God will provide. I just make

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Speaker 3: that a matter of prayer and say, Lord, connect me

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Speaker 3: with someone who's also looking for the same thing, who

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Speaker 3: can handle the emotional weight of what I'm going through,

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Speaker 3: who can be in that inner circle. Pray about that,

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Speaker 3: that those people can be there for you, because we

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Speaker 3: all need that. We're designed to walk in community with others.

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Speaker 3: And we see that all throughout Scripture. particularly amongst the disciples,

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Speaker 3: how certain ones gravitated towards each other and these two paired.

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Speaker 2: Off, right?

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Speaker 3: And that is what we need. So we talked about that.

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Speaker 3: We talked about legitimizing the suffering or the wrestling that

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Speaker 3: we need to do that and we need to lean

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Speaker 3: into God's family. And Susan very astutely pointed out where

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Speaker 3: we were going to be going with the next one,

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Speaker 3: the next thing that we need to lean into, and

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Speaker 3: that is the character of God.

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Speaker 4: And sometimes.

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Speaker 3: I'm going.

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Speaker 4: To throw this out there.

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Speaker 3: One of the first things you doubt when you're going

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Speaker 3: through a season of suffering is God's goodness, his faithfulness,

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Speaker 3: his provision, his love. That is exactly what a season

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Speaker 3: of suffering is designed for. by the enemy, the enemy's

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Speaker 3: plan is to get us to doubt God's character. So how,

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Speaker 3: when we're in this moment, the physical aspects of our

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Speaker 3: life and the emotional aspects of our life are up

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Speaker 3: in arms and we're hurting and the enemy's coming in

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Speaker 3: hard saying, well, God's not really good. God's not faithful.

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Speaker 3: God's not loving. How can a loving father allow that

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Speaker 3: to happen? How do we lean into the character of

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Speaker 3: God when the enemy's breathing down on our neck?

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Speaker 5: Erin?

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Speaker 6: She always points to me first. You know, Susan can

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Speaker 6: go first too.

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Speaker 4: Okay, Susan.

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Speaker 3: I love the fact that Erin goes first. In the

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Speaker 3: last episode, because it was her first podcast, she said, well,

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Speaker 3: go to Erin first. And that was with the introductions,

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Speaker 3: which we skipped in this one. Go back to the

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Speaker 3: last episode to hear who these people are and why

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Speaker 3: they're important to me. But do you want to go first?

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Speaker 3: Do you have some thoughts, Susan?

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Speaker 6: I do.

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Speaker 2: I think about the different passages of Scripture where God

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Speaker 2: entered in the wrestling with us or with whoever was

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Speaker 2: in the story. And he, again, he's not bothered by it.

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Speaker 2: You know, I think about Jonah. You know, when God said,

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Speaker 2: I want you to go to Nineveh, he's like, those

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Speaker 2: people deserve death. Absolutely not. And so all the different

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Speaker 2: things that he did to avoid going there. And then

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Speaker 2: after he had gone through the city and after he

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Speaker 2: had shared all all the things that God had said

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Speaker 2: for him to share, you know, God came back to

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Speaker 2: him and he said, you know, he, he dealt with that,

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Speaker 2: that frustration that Jonah had and, you know, just kind

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Speaker 2: of explained to him, like, my perspective is big. There

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Speaker 2: are 300,000 people in this city that could have died,

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Speaker 2: you know, but yet, um, I wanted to have mercy

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Speaker 2: on them. But yet he still engaged with him. And

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Speaker 2: he asked him questions. He's like, do you have a reason?

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Speaker 2: Do you have a right to be angry? And the

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Speaker 2: first time Jonah answered that was like, yes, I do.

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Speaker 2: And he was just kind of spelled out how he felt.

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Speaker 2: And then the next time he asked him, he had

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Speaker 2: had a little time to think about it. And he

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Speaker 2: was kind of quiet about it and just recognized, okay,

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Speaker 2: God's good. not only to me, but maybe even to

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Speaker 2: people in situations I don't like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Isn't that, and isn't it interesting that he says he

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Speaker 6: doesn't want, like he doesn't want, he's, he's mad at

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Speaker 6: God because he's good.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 6: You know, like, like I knew.

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Speaker 3: You were going to do this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I don't, I don't want you to.

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Speaker 5: And so, right.

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Speaker 2: And I think that that's, if we're honest, you know,

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Speaker 2: that's how we are, you know, we look at the

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Speaker 2: situation and we think, oh my gosh, like, okay, God,

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Speaker 2: like he's not going to be happy with this at all,

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Speaker 2: but yet.

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Speaker 5: God is good. And he is good in those situations.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Aaron, you can go now that Susan is gone.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Now that Susan's done good.

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Speaker 3: Now that Susan's shared her wisdom, it's your turn.

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Speaker 6: When I was thinking about, it's by the blood of

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Speaker 6: the lamb and the word of our testimony. And so

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Speaker 6: it's important for us to remember and to speak the

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Speaker 6: God's character. You are good. You're almighty. You are strong.

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Speaker 6: You are my, you know, foundation. You are my under

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Speaker 6: your wings. Like, I think it's important to speak those

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Speaker 6: things for our own ears to hear that reminds us

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Speaker 6: and it strengthens us. And this is where the scripture

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Speaker 6: is so powerful because we can turn there when we

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Speaker 6: don't know we can turn and be reminded.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 6: These are the attributes of God. So, because I think

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Speaker 6: the question is that we have to lean into the

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Speaker 6: character of God, right? And so we trust his character.

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Speaker 6: And how many stories do they kind of, I'm not

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Speaker 6: talking biblical now, I'm just talking about story stories, where

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Speaker 6: the main character, something happens and they judge them on

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Speaker 6: that immediate incident. But it actually, as the story progresses,

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Speaker 6: you see, their character all the way through it, even

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Speaker 6: in that immediate incident. And so I think that's where

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Speaker 6: God's character matters, because sometimes we question what's happening in

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Speaker 6: this moment, but God never changes. He's the same yesterday, today,

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Speaker 6: and forever. And so remembering the truth of his character,

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Speaker 6: even though at the moment we don't know, where it

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Speaker 6: feels like it's like what's going on, We know who

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Speaker 6: he is and we can stand on that because God

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Speaker 6: is the same yesterday, today, and forever. And so his

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Speaker 6: character is really stabilizing for us and important to be

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Speaker 6: grounded in. And it's a truth we know whether we

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Speaker 6: feel like we see it in the moment or not.

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Speaker 6: We know his character and we trust that. And we

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Speaker 6: trust that, okay, I don't understand this moment. But I

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Speaker 6: will because of who he is, and he's consistently that.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: I know in my own moments, that is where the

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Speaker 3: enemy comes in. He tries to get you to doubt

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Speaker 3: his character. And I shared, like I said, it was

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Speaker 3: a bit of a mortifying situation where we had had,

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Speaker 3: I'd been to funeral after funeral after funeral of dear

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Speaker 3: friends who I prayed to, But there was a situation

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Speaker 3: with a couple of cats and it was an abusive

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Speaker 3: situation with a mother that ended just graphically in roadkill.

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Speaker 3: And it was a situation that was tied into my

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Speaker 3: daughter and her friend. And I've been praying for years, years,

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Speaker 3: years for God to just encounter these girls. And I

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Speaker 3: had this moment where in our bonus room downstairs, I

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Speaker 3: invited the Lord in and I prayed that he would

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Speaker 3: protect these animals. And like I said, it ended in tragedy.

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Speaker 3: And that's where the enemy comes in. Well, God's not good.

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Speaker 3: A good father wouldn't allow that to happen. A good father,

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Speaker 3: a loving father, wouldn't do that. And those are the

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Speaker 3: voices that can come in. And so it is hard.

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Speaker 3: It is hard to lean into the character when the

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Speaker 3: enemy is trying to use your circumstances to doubt God's

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Speaker 3: character and who he is. But that's how he operates.

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Speaker 3: And I want to share an example very quickly here.

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Speaker 3: of how leaning into God's character really helped me recently.

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Speaker 3: Another area of deep suffering in our homeschool circle, I've

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Speaker 3: mentioned it a couple times on our podcast, on my podcast,

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Speaker 3: a young man took his own life. He was 20

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Speaker 3: years old. He was a former student of mine, and

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Speaker 3: he was on my son's baseball team. And we weren't,

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Speaker 3: we didn't travel in closed circles, but we knew This

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Speaker 3: young man, he was brilliant. He was hilarious. He was

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Speaker 3: just so talented. His whole future ahead of him, sophomore

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Speaker 3: in college. And you're sitting here just, Lord, I can't

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Speaker 3: wrap my head around this. And you guys know me.

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Speaker 3: I tend to enter into other people's suffering. And God's

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Speaker 3: had to do some healing in me because I just,

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Speaker 3: I have issues with a challenging thought life, honestly, ruminating thoughts.

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Speaker 3: And I can't stop thinking about things. And this one

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Speaker 3: was particularly hard. I've actually, the Lord's done a lot

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Speaker 3: of healing there and some, I've gained some victory over

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Speaker 3: that part of my thought life. But you guys have

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Speaker 3: walked through all of that with me over the years,

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Speaker 3: just challenging, ruminating thoughts. And so when this happened so

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Speaker 3: close to me, it was pretty hard and there was

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Speaker 3: genuine suffering. There was genuine grief because of someone I knew. And, um,

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Speaker 3: how sad that was, but I was praying on my

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Speaker 3: bed and I'm like, God, how do I get through this?

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Speaker 3: How can I, you know, obviously I want to pray

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Speaker 3: for those who are more closely involved. Um, but give

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Speaker 3: me a word, give me something to lean into. And

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Speaker 3: I really felt the Lord prompt my spirit and say,

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Speaker 3: do you.

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Speaker 4: Believe I am just? And I, I'm like, yes, yes.

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Speaker 3: And I've talked a lot about my daughter and, who

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Speaker 3: spent 10 months being agnostic, one of the things that

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Speaker 3: has brought her back to believing in God is she's

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Speaker 3: a justice warrior. And when you go and read the

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Speaker 3: Old Testament, at a time in history when nobody cared

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Speaker 3: about justice, nobody cared about widows, nobody cared about orphans,

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Speaker 3: he was establishing that as part of the structure, the

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Speaker 3: governing structure of the nation he created was taking care

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Speaker 3: of widows and orphans. And And, of course, we have

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Speaker 3: the admonition in the New Testament. That's true religion, taking

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Speaker 3: care of widows and orphans. Our faith is very concerned

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Speaker 3: about justice. God is very concerned about justice. And why

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Speaker 3: would that be? It seems maybe an odd thing to

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Speaker 3: lean into in a situation like this. But I knew

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Speaker 3: the particular method that he chose may have afforded him

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Speaker 3: a few moments of lucidity, of clarity, before he passed

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Speaker 3: into eternity. And I know that it's not God's will

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Speaker 3: that any should perish. That is not his will. And

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Speaker 3: that if I combine knowing that his will is for

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Speaker 3: everyone to be right with him and to be with him,

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Speaker 3: and that he is just, I leaned into that and

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Speaker 3: a peace came. And knowing that, while I don't know

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Speaker 3: exactly what happened.

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Speaker 4: He is just.

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Speaker 6: He is just God.

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Speaker 3: And I, let me be clear about this. I do

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Speaker 3: not believe that suicide is an unforgivable sin and that

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Speaker 3: everyone who commits that or commits that act.

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Speaker 4: Goes to hell.

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Speaker 3: I'm not saying that at all, that he, he somehow

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Speaker 3: had to be made right before. But what I'm saying

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Speaker 3: is I, I believe that if that was necessary for

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Speaker 3: him and he would have responded to that, I believe

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Speaker 3: that God is just and he provided him, um, The

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Speaker 3: time to do that, if that was necessary. And sometimes

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Speaker 3: it's just, you know so well, Erin, in your daily work,

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Speaker 3: the kind of horrific pain that people can live in.

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Speaker 3: And someone who commits an act like that doesn't... isn't

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Speaker 3: trying to.

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Speaker 4: End their life.

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Speaker 3: They want to end the pain, the pain that they're in,

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Speaker 3: the pain. And God, I believe there's a lot of

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Speaker 3: mercy for that. And what do you like to say, Susan?

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Speaker 3: You have a saying about how God is so much

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Speaker 3: more merciful than most Christians are.

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Speaker 5: I say that all the time.

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Speaker 2: You do. I love that. God is far more merciful

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Speaker 2: than Christians are. And I just think that his love

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Speaker 2: and his compassion is just so deep and rich and real. And,

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Speaker 2: you know, again, I think sometimes as as Christians, we

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Speaker 2: want to defend.

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Speaker 5: God's, we want to defend God.

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Speaker 2: We want to defend his character and we just want

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Speaker 2: to say, well, this is what God likes and this

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Speaker 2: is what God doesn't like, you know? And I mean,

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Speaker 2: scripture talks about the seven things he hates, you know,

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Speaker 2: but we have to understand.

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Speaker 5: Like there's so much mercy. There's so much grace.

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Speaker 2: And he is always, always, always, wanting to engage with

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Speaker 2: us in those places.

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Speaker 3: So when we are going through a season of suffering,

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Speaker 3: I would encourage my listeners, ask God, what part of

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Speaker 3: your character can I lean into to help me through this?

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Speaker 3: Because I bet there is one big one, you know,

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Speaker 3: for somebody else, maybe it would have been something different

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Speaker 3: in the same situation. But for whatever reason, I really

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Speaker 3: felt like the Lord.

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Speaker 4: Prompted me with that question. Do you believe I am just?

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Speaker 3: And somehow believing and knowing that he was just helped

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Speaker 3: me trust that he was just in that situation. Even

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Speaker 3: though there's all the questions of, I wish, I wish,

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Speaker 3: I wish, I wish somebody had known. I wish the firearm.

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Speaker 4: Hadn't been available. But I can trust that he is just.

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Speaker 3: And just like I shared the story of our friend Shane,

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Speaker 3: who we were there present when he died. um shane

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Speaker 3: had struggled a lot with substance abuse and other things

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Speaker 3: and i can trust that god was just and i

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Speaker 3: believe because i know his character and it's not his

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Speaker 3: will for any to perish that he chose to take

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Speaker 3: our dear brother and friend at the time that was

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Speaker 3: best for him it didn't feel like the best time

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Speaker 3: for us didn't feel like the best time for his

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Speaker 3: wife and son but it felt you know i i

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Speaker 3: can trust that and leaning into his character in those

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Speaker 3: moments and asking god like Like you mentioned the verse

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Speaker 3: in the last episode, I believe help my unbelief. Because

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Speaker 3: the enemy is going to pound you saying God is

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Speaker 3: all of these things that he is not.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: And your circumstances are just going to confirm the voice

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Speaker 3: of the enemy. But I think suffering is the place

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Speaker 3: that's the hardest. And I believe it's probably the number

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Speaker 3: one reason why people leave the faith.

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Speaker 4: Is because.

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Speaker 3: They're struggling through something, and they're doubting the character of God,

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Speaker 3: and they can't reconcile a good God with the circumstances

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Speaker 3: that they're going through. And yet, we are actually told

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Speaker 3: in Scripture, you.

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Speaker 4: Will encounter suffering.

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Speaker 3: And that suffering, the only option we really have is

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Speaker 3: the suffering going to produce something good in me and

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Speaker 3: for his kingdom. Can I allow him to do something

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Speaker 3: beautiful and good with this place of suffering? end my

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Speaker 3: life and that brings us to the next thing that

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Speaker 3: I really that we need to lean into and I

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Speaker 3: want to spend some some big time here the third

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Speaker 3: thing we need to lean into first thing was leaning

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Speaker 3: into God's family that inner circle second thing is leaning

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Speaker 3: into God's character and the third thing we need to

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Speaker 3: lean into in a moment of suffering is God's word

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Speaker 3: we have to lean into God's word and I understand

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Speaker 3: sometimes that can be hard too when you're in those moments.

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Speaker 4: And I shared very.

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Speaker 3: Vulnerably in the last episode where when this whole situation

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Speaker 3: happened and I kind of hit, it felt like the

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Speaker 3: straw that broke the camel's back when the situation with

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Speaker 3: my daughter and these little animals ended in roadkill. And

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Speaker 3: I felt like I wasn't really on speaking.

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Speaker 4: Terms with God.

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Speaker 3: I was like, I don't want to talk to you

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Speaker 3: right now. Because I was really hurting and upset. Well,

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Speaker 3: another situation that was really difficult for me in this

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Speaker 3: past year, an area of a lot of suffering. I

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Speaker 3: want to share this story and then get to the

442
00:23:37,470 --> 00:23:41,690
Speaker 3: scripture passage that the Lord gave me that just tied

443
00:23:41,930 --> 00:23:46,389
Speaker 3: everything together so beautifully. We moved to Alabama eight and

444
00:23:46,410 --> 00:23:48,109
Speaker 3: a half years ago. And we got to this church

445
00:23:48,690 --> 00:23:51,190
Speaker 3: maybe like four years ago where we met this couple

446
00:23:51,250 --> 00:23:56,270
Speaker 3: named Rusty and Krista. And they're just amazing. Rusty is

447
00:23:56,369 --> 00:24:01,290
Speaker 3: like an Old Testament prophet in a New Testament body. Because,

448
00:24:01,310 --> 00:24:04,970
Speaker 3: I mean, like, he just is zealous and just so

449
00:24:05,030 --> 00:24:08,310
Speaker 3: zealous for the things of the Lord. And so he

450
00:24:08,350 --> 00:24:11,649
Speaker 3: was a force to be reckoned with. I adored this man.

451
00:24:11,750 --> 00:24:14,070
Speaker 3: And Krista, they weren't able to have children. That was

452
00:24:14,109 --> 00:24:16,810
Speaker 3: an area of suffering in their life they didn't really understand.

453
00:24:17,550 --> 00:24:19,850
Speaker 3: But we would go. We were in their small group.

454
00:24:20,900 --> 00:24:24,909
Speaker 3: And he would do these white tablecloth dinners for us.

455
00:24:25,010 --> 00:24:25,830
Speaker 4: And we'd just show up.

456
00:24:25,869 --> 00:24:27,790
Speaker 3: He wouldn't let us bring anything. And it was kind

457
00:24:27,810 --> 00:24:30,030
Speaker 3: of like our date night, you know. It was so great.

458
00:24:30,109 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 3: We didn't have to spend any money. We just showed up.

459
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,620
Speaker 3: Some other couples showed up. We'd have a really great

460
00:24:34,660 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 3: dinner and conversation. And so we did that for the

461
00:24:36,820 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 3: better part of a year. And they walked through us.

462
00:24:38,859 --> 00:24:41,500
Speaker 3: We were actually the time when we found out that

463
00:24:41,619 --> 00:24:44,250
Speaker 3: our daughter was struggling in her faith. That was the place.

464
00:24:45,010 --> 00:24:48,580
Speaker 3: We went to another inner circle that we were in

465
00:24:48,619 --> 00:24:50,659
Speaker 3: that really helped us to walk through that. Rusty and

466
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 3: Krista did.

467
00:24:52,380 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 4: But then they told us, I'm sorry, we're not going

468
00:24:54,220 --> 00:24:55,340
Speaker 4: to have our small group anymore.

469
00:24:55,820 --> 00:24:59,699
Speaker 3: Because God has led us to sell our house, to

470
00:24:59,770 --> 00:25:04,670
Speaker 3: purchase a property out in the country, and start a

471
00:25:04,730 --> 00:25:07,390
Speaker 3: refuge for women who are coming out of sex trafficking.

472
00:25:07,410 --> 00:25:07,870
Speaker 2: Hmm.

473
00:25:09,250 --> 00:25:10,590
Speaker 3: And, of course, I had to look at that and say,

474
00:25:10,650 --> 00:25:15,390
Speaker 3: no more white tablecloth dinners. Okay, helping those who have

475
00:25:15,410 --> 00:25:17,660
Speaker 3: been ravaged.

476
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,980
Speaker 4: From sex slavery.

477
00:25:20,420 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 3: Well, okay, yes, I can certainly give up my white

478
00:25:23,740 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 3: tablecloth dinners for that. And we went out and they

479
00:25:27,140 --> 00:25:31,300
Speaker 3: found the property. It was beautiful. We were helping them

480
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,810
Speaker 3: to renovate that property. And Kristen and I actually started

481
00:25:36,830 --> 00:25:38,070
Speaker 3: a women's small group in my house.

482
00:25:38,910 --> 00:25:40,710
Speaker 4: And she had a prayer request. Rusty had a little

483
00:25:40,750 --> 00:25:44,850
Speaker 4: twitch in his back. And we prayed about it.

484
00:25:44,890 --> 00:25:47,929
Speaker 3: We assumed it was something muscular. They exhausted all of those.

485
00:25:47,990 --> 00:25:49,510
Speaker 3: They exhausted all the testing.

486
00:25:49,690 --> 00:25:50,990
Speaker 4: And if, I don't know, it was.

487
00:25:50,910 --> 00:25:54,530
Speaker 3: Probably four or five months later, we found out he

488
00:25:54,590 --> 00:26:01,910
Speaker 3: had ALS. And I was like, Lord, I don't understand

489
00:26:01,950 --> 00:26:06,580
Speaker 3: this story. Like they sold their house to move out here.

490
00:26:07,170 --> 00:26:11,210
Speaker 3: and start a ministry to help women who are enslaved

491
00:26:11,250 --> 00:26:14,950
Speaker 3: in sex trafficking, to help them come to freedom. Obviously,

492
00:26:14,970 --> 00:26:20,100
Speaker 3: you want this. Obviously, the enemy doesn't. So we were praying,

493
00:26:20,140 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 3: and they were full of faith, really believing for a

494
00:26:22,100 --> 00:26:27,820
Speaker 3: miracle there. And it was very fast. Usually, people hold

495
00:26:27,900 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 3: out for a couple of years with ALS, but his

496
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,199
Speaker 3: was closer to six to eight months. The last two

497
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,379
Speaker 3: months were on hospice, and they.

498
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,430
Speaker 4: Were pretty brutal. really really brutal.

499
00:26:40,859 --> 00:26:43,980
Speaker 3: And it took um you know we that was another

500
00:26:44,020 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 3: funeral i went to and i just this was one

501
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,780
Speaker 3: of those where i was like lord i don't not

502
00:26:49,820 --> 00:26:52,260
Speaker 3: that we can earn a healing but if anybody deserves

503
00:26:52,340 --> 00:26:56,980
Speaker 3: it if anybody rusty and krista did you know it

504
00:26:58,260 --> 00:27:01,060
Speaker 3: doesn't work that way obviously and there was plenty of

505
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 3: faith and a lot of prayer and the lord took

506
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,730
Speaker 3: rusty home and i know that man There's probably never

507
00:27:07,750 --> 00:27:09,490
Speaker 3: a more excited man to hit the pearly.

508
00:27:09,270 --> 00:27:10,190
Speaker 4: Gates than Rusty.

509
00:27:10,210 --> 00:27:15,070
Speaker 3: I adore this man. And so I was really wrestling

510
00:27:15,170 --> 00:27:19,570
Speaker 3: through what was happening there. It took two incomes to

511
00:27:19,609 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 3: make the property survive. And so now, like, Krista can't

512
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 3: do it on her own. And she can't even finish

513
00:27:27,580 --> 00:27:31,180
Speaker 3: the renovations. And we've moved to another state. I wish

514
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 3: we could be there. And so I'm like, there's so

515
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 3: many questions. So we're in the process of this move

516
00:27:35,340 --> 00:27:36,899
Speaker 3: here and I'm sitting on my bed.

517
00:27:36,619 --> 00:27:40,980
Speaker 4: And I'm like, Lord, what is up with that?

518
00:27:41,060 --> 00:27:44,490
Speaker 3: Like, I don't understand this. Give me something to help

519
00:27:44,590 --> 00:27:50,189
Speaker 3: me work through this. And I know enough about God

520
00:27:50,590 --> 00:27:53,970
Speaker 3: to know that he doesn't often give answers for why

521
00:27:54,030 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 3: we're going through our suffering, but he will give us

522
00:27:56,180 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 3: a lifeline.

523
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 2: He will.

524
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 3: And so I'm sitting on the bed. We were still

525
00:28:00,500 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 3: looking for houses and I was sitting on the bed

526
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,940
Speaker 3: in my mom's guest room And the Lord does.

527
00:28:05,780 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 4: This with me sometimes. I wonder if he does it.

528
00:28:07,420 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 3: I'll find out if he does it with you guys,

529
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 3: but I'll just be sitting there and I'll feel this

530
00:28:11,780 --> 00:28:15,550
Speaker 3: certain passage, just a book and a number come to mind.

531
00:28:15,570 --> 00:28:19,170
Speaker 3: It was Psalm 44. And I didn't know what was

532
00:28:19,230 --> 00:28:19,909
Speaker 3: in that Psalm.

533
00:28:19,950 --> 00:28:20,689
Speaker 4: I had no idea.

534
00:28:21,109 --> 00:28:23,449
Speaker 3: And so I opened my Bible to this Psalm and

535
00:28:23,550 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 3: I could not believe how perfect it was.

536
00:28:34,750 --> 00:28:37,510
Speaker 1: Hey friends, it's Katherine here. If you're trying to be

537
00:28:37,550 --> 00:28:41,490
Speaker 1: a godly parent in this wild and wacky world, you need.

538
00:28:41,370 --> 00:28:42,490
Speaker 4: All the help you can get.

539
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Speaker 1: And I've got you covered. When you subscribe to my website,

540
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Speaker 1: you'll get instant access to tons of free resources made

541
00:28:50,210 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: just for Christian parents. You'll get my prodigal bundle, which

542
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Speaker 1: is packed with every podcast, article, and scripture list I've

543
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Speaker 1: created for parents walking away. That Tough Prodigal Road. You'll

544
00:29:01,150 --> 00:29:05,070
Speaker 1: also get my free e-book, Beyond the Lies, uncovering five

545
00:29:05,130 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: myths the culture spreads to mothers. Plus, powerful scripture lists

546
00:29:08,890 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: to pray over your kids and even scripture songs to

547
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: help your family hide God's word in your hearts without

548
00:29:15,020 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: even trying. And, of course, I'll keep you encouraged with

549
00:29:18,220 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: my weekly newsletter full of faith-filled pep talks and outlines

550
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,220
Speaker 1: of what we're tackling each week on the show. So

551
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:30,210
Speaker 1: don't miss out. Head over to katherineseegers.com. That's kathrynseegers.com. And

552
00:29:30,270 --> 00:29:34,140
Speaker 1: subscribe today because Christian parenting may be crazy, but you

553
00:29:34,260 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: don't have to do it alone.

554
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 3: Because I was like, if anybody could have, like I said,

555
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:47,900
Speaker 3: earned it, Rusty was righteous and he had a righteous cause.

556
00:29:49,210 --> 00:29:54,430
Speaker 3: And so I read this psalm. That blew my mind.

557
00:29:54,490 --> 00:29:56,550
Speaker 3: I don't have all the psalms memorized. Some of them

558
00:29:56,630 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 3: I do. But this one, I didn't know what I

559
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 3: was going to. It was a psalm by the sons

560
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 3: of Korah. And if you're not familiar with them, Korah

561
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:08,500
Speaker 3: was actually someone who rebelled against Moses, and didn't the

562
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 3: earth open up and swallow him, I believe? Yeah, the

563
00:30:11,900 --> 00:30:14,810
Speaker 3: whole tribe. He did not end well. But he had

564
00:30:14,870 --> 00:30:18,410
Speaker 3: some sons who stood with Moses who would not rebel,

565
00:30:18,530 --> 00:30:23,810
Speaker 3: and they were righteous. Okay, so they're righteous. And this psalm,

566
00:30:23,870 --> 00:30:26,310
Speaker 3: when you read through it, the first portion of the

567
00:30:26,370 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 3: scripture talks about how we have heard with our ears,

568
00:30:30,380 --> 00:30:33,220
Speaker 3: O God, our fathers have told us what you did

569
00:30:33,260 --> 00:30:36,180
Speaker 3: in their days and long ago. And days long ago.

570
00:30:36,580 --> 00:30:38,810
Speaker 3: And he goes on to describe the things that God

571
00:30:38,850 --> 00:30:43,170
Speaker 3: had done. And then he gets to this section where

572
00:30:43,350 --> 00:30:44,350
Speaker 3: he's saying, you didn't just.

573
00:30:44,260 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 4: Do it for them.

574
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,660
Speaker 3: You did these things for us. He talks about how

575
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,860
Speaker 3: it starts in verse 4. You are my king. You

576
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 3: are my God. Through you, we push back our enemies.

577
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,190
Speaker 3: Through your name, we trample our foes. And he goes

578
00:31:00,250 --> 00:31:01,950
Speaker 3: on to talk about the things that God had done

579
00:31:01,970 --> 00:31:05,590
Speaker 3: in their life. Not just the forefathers, not just the

580
00:31:05,650 --> 00:31:09,590
Speaker 3: ones that went before them, but their life. Then he

581
00:31:09,630 --> 00:31:13,260
Speaker 3: gets to the section in verse 9. But you have

582
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,100
Speaker 3: rejected and humbled us. You no longer go out with

583
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:21,730
Speaker 3: our armies. You made us retreat before the enemy and

584
00:31:21,790 --> 00:31:25,670
Speaker 3: our adversaries have plundered us. You gave us up to

585
00:31:25,710 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 3: be devoured like sheep and have scattered us among the nations.

586
00:31:30,500 --> 00:31:33,260
Speaker 3: This one really got me. You sold your people for

587
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:38,850
Speaker 3: a pittance, gaining nothing from their sale. And he goes

588
00:31:38,890 --> 00:31:41,430
Speaker 3: on to talk about how they're the laughingstock of the nations.

589
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 3: And so I'm reading up into this point, not really

590
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,260
Speaker 3: knowing their history and thinking, well, that all happened because

591
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 3: they rebelled against God, right?

592
00:31:50,500 --> 00:31:51,460
Speaker 4: They were not righteous.

593
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 3: They rebelled. They're not the rusty types, right? And by

594
00:31:55,380 --> 00:31:57,740
Speaker 3: the way, that part, you sold your people for a pittance,

595
00:31:58,330 --> 00:32:00,730
Speaker 3: that just made me think of the situation with my cats.

596
00:32:00,750 --> 00:32:02,290
Speaker 4: I'm like, it was so little, God.

597
00:32:02,310 --> 00:32:06,370
Speaker 3: It would have cost you nothing. And yet I felt

598
00:32:06,410 --> 00:32:08,630
Speaker 3: like you didn't show up, you know. It was kind

599
00:32:08,690 --> 00:32:10,750
Speaker 3: of like my whole last year.

600
00:32:10,430 --> 00:32:11,490
Speaker 4: In a psalm.

601
00:32:12,790 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 3: He talks about, you've made us a reproach to our neighbors,

602
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:20,380
Speaker 3: the scorn and derision of those around us. And then

603
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,910
Speaker 3: he gets to this section where he says, all of

604
00:32:22,980 --> 00:32:23,770
Speaker 3: this happened to us.

605
00:32:23,830 --> 00:32:24,590
Speaker 4: This is verse 17. Right?

606
00:32:33,020 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 3: And he goes on to say, if we'd forgotten your name,

607
00:32:35,340 --> 00:32:37,660
Speaker 3: the name of our God, or spread out our hands

608
00:32:37,740 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 3: to a foreign God, would not God have discovered it?

609
00:32:41,580 --> 00:32:43,750
Speaker 3: He's like, he's kind of challenging God. You know, you

610
00:32:44,510 --> 00:32:47,290
Speaker 3: know that we were righteous. You know that we did

611
00:32:47,330 --> 00:32:47,950
Speaker 3: not rebel.

612
00:32:48,330 --> 00:32:49,090
Speaker 4: You know that.

613
00:32:48,970 --> 00:32:52,170
Speaker 3: We're not in this place of suffering where you seem

614
00:32:52,250 --> 00:32:56,270
Speaker 3: silent because we did something wrong. Yet for your sake,

615
00:32:56,310 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 3: we face death all day long. We are considered as sheep.

616
00:33:01,390 --> 00:33:05,590
Speaker 3: to be slaughtered. And that's something that Paul quotes in

617
00:33:05,650 --> 00:33:11,670
Speaker 3: Romans 8.36. He's recognizing that for some reason, for your sake,

618
00:33:11,930 --> 00:33:15,670
Speaker 3: you have allowed this. For your sake, you're doing something.

619
00:33:15,690 --> 00:33:16,300
Speaker 3: I don't get it.

620
00:33:16,610 --> 00:33:17,250
Speaker 4: I don't understand.

621
00:33:17,540 --> 00:33:19,980
Speaker 3: And this is where I would say it almost seems

622
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 3: downright disrespectful. And we talked a lot in the last

623
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,020
Speaker 3: episode about having a circle of friends that can allow

624
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,340
Speaker 3: you to wrestle through all that you need to without

625
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,860
Speaker 3: saying that you're disobedient or evil or.

626
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 4: Not being a Christian or not being godly enough.

627
00:33:39,850 --> 00:33:43,209
Speaker 3: He says to God, the psalmist says to God, awake,

628
00:33:43,690 --> 00:33:48,690
Speaker 3: oh Lord, why do you sleep? Like he is literally

629
00:33:48,750 --> 00:33:51,550
Speaker 3: accusing God of being asleep on the job. This is

630
00:33:51,570 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 3: in our Bible. And he did this. Rouse yourself. Do

631
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,220
Speaker 3: not reject us forever. He's giving God's orders here. Why

632
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,620
Speaker 3: do you hide your face or forget our misery and oppression?

633
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:10,270
Speaker 3: We are brought down to the dust. Our bodies cling

634
00:34:10,350 --> 00:34:11,450
Speaker 3: to the ground.

635
00:34:11,930 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 4: Rise up and help us. Redeem us. Because of your

636
00:34:17,260 --> 00:34:18,280
Speaker 4: unfailing love.

637
00:34:18,300 --> 00:34:21,580
Speaker 3: Right. So he comes full circle, but it's only like

638
00:34:21,620 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 3: the last line that he acknowledges and leans into the

639
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,760
Speaker 3: character of God. Up until this point, he's honestly kind

640
00:34:28,780 --> 00:34:31,469
Speaker 3: of challenging the character of God. He's accusing God of

641
00:34:31,610 --> 00:34:34,670
Speaker 3: being asleep. He's saying, we were righteous. You sold us

642
00:34:34,710 --> 00:34:38,350
Speaker 3: for a pittance. I could not believe that out of

643
00:34:38,390 --> 00:34:40,270
Speaker 3: the blue, I'm sitting on my bed and the Lord

644
00:34:40,310 --> 00:34:42,280
Speaker 3: tells me to go here when I'm wrestling with the

645
00:34:42,380 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 3: death of a righteous man. This is a righteous man.

646
00:34:46,380 --> 00:34:50,940
Speaker 3: And it doesn't make sense to me that the work

647
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 3: that God gave him to do and Christian to do

648
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,140
Speaker 3: would be thwarted. I can't make sense of this suffering.

649
00:34:57,739 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 3: I can't make sense of it. But in my frustration

650
00:35:03,620 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 3: and in my confusion, the Lord, out of the blue...

651
00:35:10,890 --> 00:35:14,490
Speaker 3: kind of prophetically dropped this in my lap and told

652
00:35:14,550 --> 00:35:18,170
Speaker 3: me to go here, not knowing what it was. So,

653
00:35:18,250 --> 00:35:22,610
Speaker 3: I'm going to go to Susan first. Erin, what are

654
00:35:22,660 --> 00:35:24,420
Speaker 3: your thoughts? I'm sorry, I know that was kind of

655
00:35:24,460 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 3: a long section there. But what are your thoughts on

656
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,660
Speaker 3: leaning into the Word of God and particularly how this

657
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 3: portion of Scripture gives us permission to wrestle because this

658
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 3: man this son of Cora is wrestling with God in

659
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 3: Psalm 44 isn't he.

660
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,100
Speaker 2: Yes he is and I and I also think that

661
00:35:50,900 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 2: he's wrestling with God because he he knows he knows

662
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,500
Speaker 2: who God is he he has seen the faithfulness of

663
00:35:59,540 --> 00:36:02,620
Speaker 2: God and I think it's really important you'd ask the

664
00:36:02,660 --> 00:36:04,940
Speaker 2: question earlier like what's one way that we can do

665
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,460
Speaker 2: that we need to be journaling we need to be

666
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 2: you know, um, putting in our, our, um, places of remembrance,

667
00:36:13,060 --> 00:36:16,540
Speaker 2: our stones of remembrance of what God has done and

668
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,839
Speaker 2: how he has come through for us. And it's not

669
00:36:18,940 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 2: always the big things like, because it's the little things

670
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 2: that take us out. It's the little things that we

671
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,280
Speaker 2: need to say, okay, we've been in this little space

672
00:36:26,340 --> 00:36:28,990
Speaker 2: before so that when the bigger things come, we can,

673
00:36:29,170 --> 00:36:32,109
Speaker 2: we can trust that. And he has, he did that

674
00:36:32,530 --> 00:36:34,930
Speaker 2: in the scripture kind of in a brilliant way. He's saying,

675
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 2: I've seen you do all these things in the past.

676
00:36:38,100 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 2: You've done them for all these generations. You've done it

677
00:36:41,260 --> 00:36:43,469
Speaker 2: for me, but now it seems like you're asleep at

678
00:36:43,489 --> 00:36:47,589
Speaker 2: the wheel. We need you in a desperate manner. So

679
00:36:47,650 --> 00:36:53,989
Speaker 2: he has the safety and the security of his lived existence,

680
00:36:54,270 --> 00:36:58,069
Speaker 2: what he knows, what he knows through the generations, what

681
00:36:58,090 --> 00:36:59,150
Speaker 2: he knows personally.

682
00:36:59,890 --> 00:37:00,350
Speaker 5: And what he is.

683
00:37:01,890 --> 00:37:03,589
Speaker 5: Able to trust God yet to do.

684
00:37:03,610 --> 00:37:07,270
Speaker 3: Yeah. And he seems to be like Peter saying, Lord,

685
00:37:07,310 --> 00:37:08,570
Speaker 3: there's nowhere else to go.

686
00:37:08,590 --> 00:37:10,069
Speaker 4: We talked about that.

687
00:37:10,150 --> 00:37:13,710
Speaker 3: John 6, 68, 9, when Peter responds to Jesus, Jesus

688
00:37:13,810 --> 00:37:15,609
Speaker 3: asked him if he's going to leave because the other,

689
00:37:16,110 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 3: the other followers were offended by what Jesus was saying.

690
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 3: And are you going to leave? And Lord, where else

691
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 3: are we going to go? He's built the case. And

692
00:37:23,780 --> 00:37:26,399
Speaker 3: I love that you bring out the journaling that this

693
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:30,890
Speaker 3: is his journal. Psalm 44 is his journal. He wrote

694
00:37:30,930 --> 00:37:35,260
Speaker 3: it down, and it became scripture for us to lean

695
00:37:35,340 --> 00:37:40,800
Speaker 3: into when we are suffering. I'm so impacted by this psalm.

696
00:37:41,420 --> 00:37:44,050
Speaker 4: And you know what I did after this? I journal.

697
00:37:44,150 --> 00:37:46,810
Speaker 3: I journal a lot, and I start my journals with,

698
00:37:46,850 --> 00:37:50,340
Speaker 3: Dear God, Dear God. And sometimes if I'm really angry,

699
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:55,290
Speaker 3: I'm just like, God, I leave off the deer. I'm

700
00:37:55,310 --> 00:37:55,730
Speaker 3: just kidding.

701
00:37:55,989 --> 00:37:56,850
Speaker 1: But I mean, we're there.

702
00:37:56,910 --> 00:37:59,890
Speaker 3: Does he have a deer God at the beginning of this?

703
00:38:00,030 --> 00:38:00,629
Speaker 3: I don't think so.

704
00:38:00,690 --> 00:38:01,969
Speaker 4: He's like, God, wake up.

705
00:38:02,310 --> 00:38:05,170
Speaker 3: God, wake up. So it's okay.

706
00:38:05,210 --> 00:38:05,810
Speaker 4: And you're right.

707
00:38:06,190 --> 00:38:08,700
Speaker 3: I started journaling about this. And as I was journaling

708
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 3: about it, I'm like, I've got to talk about this

709
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:12,380
Speaker 3: on the show. And I was going to do a

710
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 3: solo podcast. But then I was like, you and I

711
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 3: started talking about it. And I was sharing the song

712
00:38:16,219 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 3: with you, Susan.

713
00:38:16,820 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 4: And I'm like, no.

714
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,550
Speaker 3: The three of us need to do this together and

715
00:38:21,590 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 3: wrestle through this.

716
00:38:22,310 --> 00:38:24,069
Speaker 4: Okay, Erin, you, what are your thoughts?

717
00:38:25,670 --> 00:38:26,070
Speaker 2: I love it.

718
00:38:26,210 --> 00:38:29,230
Speaker 6: I love what you have said. And as you were talking,

719
00:38:29,350 --> 00:38:32,950
Speaker 6: I was thinking about a Christian persona.

720
00:38:34,110 --> 00:38:34,549
Speaker 2: You know, in.

721
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,819
Speaker 6: America especially, let's say in our culture, we have this

722
00:38:38,900 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 6: Christian persona. This is what a Christian looks like. They

723
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:47,140
Speaker 6: go through suffering this way. And then I got to

724
00:38:47,180 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 6: thinking about The Pharisees and all the rules and regulations

725
00:38:51,540 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 6: that they put on the people. And in a way,

726
00:38:55,090 --> 00:38:58,549
Speaker 6: our persona that we think a Christian should live up to,

727
00:38:58,590 --> 00:39:02,569
Speaker 6: we do that. But I love how the scripture is

728
00:39:02,730 --> 00:39:08,350
Speaker 6: raw and real and honest. And it shows us that

729
00:39:08,469 --> 00:39:14,130
Speaker 6: God is not afraid of any of our emotions. He

730
00:39:14,150 --> 00:39:17,230
Speaker 6: doesn't back away. He doesn't go, wait a minute, I

731
00:39:17,270 --> 00:39:21,460
Speaker 6: can't take that. He allows it. He embraces it. He

732
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:26,050
Speaker 6: wants us to. And one of my favorite things about, say,

733
00:39:26,090 --> 00:39:30,700
Speaker 6: some of the Eastern cultures is when somebody dies they

734
00:39:30,820 --> 00:39:34,980
Speaker 6: hire people to wail and to mourn like I'm hurting

735
00:39:35,020 --> 00:39:37,839
Speaker 6: and I need you to see it but we don't

736
00:39:37,900 --> 00:39:41,940
Speaker 6: do that we are much more have a presentation I

737
00:39:41,980 --> 00:39:46,110
Speaker 6: don't know we deny that emotions are real so I

738
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:51,170
Speaker 6: love this psalm because it's honest and true, and it

739
00:39:51,370 --> 00:39:54,410
Speaker 6: shows us how we can go to God. And like

740
00:39:54,489 --> 00:39:58,030
Speaker 6: you felt freedom after you read it. You thought, okay,

741
00:39:58,070 --> 00:40:02,859
Speaker 6: wait a minute. This is recorded in scripture, so I have,

742
00:40:02,940 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 6: like you said, permission. But I think also it teaches

743
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,780
Speaker 6: us how to, because I don't think we know how to.

744
00:40:11,340 --> 00:40:15,310
Speaker 6: We don't know how to lament. And the Psalms especially

745
00:40:15,989 --> 00:40:20,540
Speaker 6: show us how to lament. to take those emotions, direct

746
00:40:20,580 --> 00:40:25,320
Speaker 6: them to God honestly, and then, like you said, land

747
00:40:25,620 --> 00:40:28,970
Speaker 6: on His goodness. Like it allows us to go through

748
00:40:29,050 --> 00:40:31,890
Speaker 6: it and land on His goodness. And it's not just

749
00:40:32,050 --> 00:40:36,190
Speaker 6: one reading. You know, it's a process and a time.

750
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:40,660
Speaker 6: But I think that's so powerful and important.

751
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:44,879
Speaker 3: I think I maybe should have put the order differently.

752
00:40:44,940 --> 00:40:47,370
Speaker 3: Lean into God's word and then lean on his character

753
00:40:47,730 --> 00:40:48,590
Speaker 3: because that's.

754
00:40:48,350 --> 00:40:50,590
Speaker 4: Where we end up from. That's right.

755
00:40:51,230 --> 00:40:54,610
Speaker 3: Leaning into his word that we can lean on his character.

756
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:56,380
Speaker 3: And I was just thinking as you're talking, like if

757
00:40:56,500 --> 00:40:57,280
Speaker 3: my child.

758
00:40:57,760 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 5: Hmm.

759
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,790
Speaker 4: Had written something about me. Like, Mom, where are you?

760
00:41:02,070 --> 00:41:02,910
Speaker 3: Mom, wake up.

761
00:41:03,270 --> 00:41:04,550
Speaker 4: Mom, I'm struggling.

762
00:41:04,770 --> 00:41:07,489
Speaker 3: You were here for me before. And then you were

763
00:41:07,530 --> 00:41:10,590
Speaker 3: here for, you know, my siblings and for other people.

764
00:41:10,690 --> 00:41:12,850
Speaker 3: And then you were here for me before. But now,

765
00:41:13,070 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 3: now you're asleep. Look at all of this horrible things

766
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,280
Speaker 3: that happened. And where are you? Wake up, Mom.

767
00:41:18,340 --> 00:41:18,890
Speaker 4: Wake up.

768
00:41:19,820 --> 00:41:22,940
Speaker 3: But I love you. And I'm trusting in your love.

769
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:23,300
Speaker 2: Amen.

770
00:41:23,380 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 4: Good night.

771
00:41:25,020 --> 00:41:29,839
Speaker 3: Good night. If that journal entry existed, I'd want to

772
00:41:30,020 --> 00:41:30,430
Speaker 3: burn it.

773
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,100
Speaker 4: But God puts it in scripture.

774
00:41:33,420 --> 00:41:36,180
Speaker 3: Think about that. Wouldn't you want to burn that?

775
00:41:36,260 --> 00:41:37,140
Speaker 4: I would be mortified.

776
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,140
Speaker 3: And yet, God is big enough because he knows what's

777
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 3: going on behind the scenes. And he knows what it's

778
00:41:42,340 --> 00:41:43,290
Speaker 3: producing in us.

779
00:41:43,450 --> 00:41:44,430
Speaker 4: A perseverance.

780
00:41:44,550 --> 00:41:48,790
Speaker 3: It's producing a faith. It's producing a testimony. that can

781
00:41:48,870 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 3: reach the lost. It's producing crowns that we will earn

782
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,180
Speaker 3: in heaven. It's producing things. We may not feel it

783
00:41:55,260 --> 00:41:58,589
Speaker 3: in the moment, but it is producing good things. And

784
00:41:58,650 --> 00:42:02,530
Speaker 3: he's willing to allow us to even question, because really,

785
00:42:02,810 --> 00:42:05,510
Speaker 3: it kind of does question his character in this psalm.

786
00:42:05,570 --> 00:42:08,210
Speaker 4: It's like, where are you? You're asleep. It's like, you

787
00:42:08,250 --> 00:42:08,750
Speaker 4: don't care.

788
00:42:08,770 --> 00:42:12,330
Speaker 3: I'm so blown away that this is in scripture.

789
00:42:12,610 --> 00:42:14,800
Speaker 4: I'm so blown away. And you know what you did?

790
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,460
Speaker 3: You just leaned into the fourth thing we need to

791
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:21,589
Speaker 3: lean into, which is lament. Lament is the fourth thing

792
00:42:21,630 --> 00:42:24,630
Speaker 3: we need to lean into when we are suffering. But

793
00:42:24,650 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 3: the key is God invites us to lament with him.

794
00:42:30,860 --> 00:42:31,140
Speaker 2: Right.

795
00:42:31,620 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 4: Not apart from him.

796
00:42:32,540 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 3: And that's exactly what God did when he plopped Psalm

797
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:40,250
Speaker 3: 44 in my lap and like, Out of the.

798
00:42:40,210 --> 00:42:41,180
Speaker 4: Blue tells me to go there.

799
00:42:41,390 --> 00:42:44,700
Speaker 3: He's inviting me into a lament. I'm not doing this

800
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:48,900
Speaker 3: apart from him. Yes, the lament, the journal entry from

801
00:42:48,940 --> 00:42:51,100
Speaker 3: the Sons of Korah and even my journal entries. I

802
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,259
Speaker 3: look back over some of my journal entries. I don't

803
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 3: want to publish them. But I'm like wrestling through these things.

804
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:02,950
Speaker 3: But I start with God or dear God. I'm wrestling

805
00:43:03,010 --> 00:43:07,550
Speaker 3: through it with him, not apart from him. And that's

806
00:43:07,630 --> 00:43:10,570
Speaker 3: where we need to go with our pain, with our heartache,

807
00:43:10,850 --> 00:43:14,390
Speaker 3: with our discouragement, with our anger. And this is a

808
00:43:14,450 --> 00:43:18,760
Speaker 3: blueprint for doing that. Psalm 44 and other Psalms as well.

809
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 3: But in particular, this one, and this is the one the.

810
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:22,900
Speaker 4: Lord gave me.

811
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 3: And he invites us in to lament with him. So

812
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 3: in our closing moments here, why don't you talk about

813
00:43:30,540 --> 00:43:33,490
Speaker 3: what experiences you might have or thoughts.

814
00:43:33,330 --> 00:43:35,450
Speaker 4: You might have on lamenting with God.

815
00:43:35,910 --> 00:43:51,299
Speaker 2: Susan. Well, what I love about this psalm and the

816
00:43:51,340 --> 00:43:55,060
Speaker 2: fact that it is recorded is, you know, God's not

817
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:56,180
Speaker 2: worried about his character.

818
00:43:56,890 --> 00:44:01,270
Speaker 5: He knows that his character is good. And so he's.

819
00:44:01,230 --> 00:44:04,510
Speaker 3: Fine if we are like, what the heck?

820
00:44:04,610 --> 00:44:07,029
Speaker 2: You know, he has no issue with that at all.

821
00:44:07,870 --> 00:44:11,070
Speaker 5: And so I think that's really important. And I think, too,

822
00:44:11,350 --> 00:44:12,589
Speaker 5: that that's where I.

823
00:44:12,530 --> 00:44:16,009
Speaker 2: Want to get to when people have questions about, like,

824
00:44:16,469 --> 00:44:17,130
Speaker 2: is God good?

825
00:44:17,590 --> 00:44:18,950
Speaker 5: And can I wrestle with God?

826
00:44:19,050 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 2: And can I experience, be honest about how I feel

827
00:44:23,340 --> 00:44:25,060
Speaker 2: and be honest about my experiences?

828
00:44:25,700 --> 00:44:28,020
Speaker 5: And I think God gives us permission.

829
00:44:28,100 --> 00:44:30,839
Speaker 2: And this is a beautiful example that Psalm 44 is

830
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:32,779
Speaker 2: a beautiful example of how to do that.

831
00:44:35,340 --> 00:44:39,660
Speaker 6: And I think ultimately... People matter. We're the hands and

832
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 6: feet of Jesus. But honestly, only God can soothe your soul.

833
00:44:45,910 --> 00:44:49,130
Speaker 6: Only God can meet that place. And like you said, Catherine,

834
00:44:49,170 --> 00:44:53,009
Speaker 6: God knew what was your place, was the justice. In

835
00:44:53,070 --> 00:44:57,630
Speaker 6: my case, he might know what I'm wrestling with. And

836
00:44:57,670 --> 00:45:01,350
Speaker 6: I just wanted to end with that. I believe it's

837
00:45:01,410 --> 00:45:05,469
Speaker 6: about a third of the Psalms are lament Psalms. That's

838
00:45:05,530 --> 00:45:09,800
Speaker 6: a lot of scripture. And a lament psalm follows a

839
00:45:09,940 --> 00:45:15,180
Speaker 6: particular pattern. And the pattern is first, they address, they

840
00:45:15,260 --> 00:45:18,390
Speaker 6: call out God, call out to God, which is the key.

841
00:45:19,130 --> 00:45:22,550
Speaker 6: That we're calling to him because as Susan said, he

842
00:45:23,050 --> 00:45:27,989
Speaker 6: can withstand his, he can manage, he can uphold his character.

843
00:45:28,030 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 6: In other words, he can defend himself. So first you

844
00:45:30,460 --> 00:45:34,020
Speaker 6: address and call out to God. Second is you complaint,

845
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:42,690
Speaker 6: is your complaint. To admit raw pain suffering, injustice, disappointment, anger, hurt,

846
00:45:43,090 --> 00:45:46,870
Speaker 6: like to be raw. And then the third one is

847
00:45:46,890 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 6: the petition, asking God to act, rescue, heal, answer. And

848
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:57,580
Speaker 6: then the fourth is to trust and to affirm belief

849
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:01,020
Speaker 6: in his good character and past faithfulness. So it's that

850
00:46:01,820 --> 00:46:04,060
Speaker 6: turning and looking at him. And the final one is

851
00:46:04,100 --> 00:46:08,140
Speaker 6: to end in praise. ending the prayer with worship, even

852
00:46:08,180 --> 00:46:11,240
Speaker 6: if it's just, as you said, in this particular scripture,

853
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:12,280
Speaker 6: one line.

854
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:14,779
Speaker 4: Yeah, it barely is.

855
00:46:14,860 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 6: I know you're there, but still it lands. But I

856
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:21,970
Speaker 6: think it's fascinating that there's a third of the Psalms

857
00:46:22,630 --> 00:46:25,310
Speaker 6: are written in this pattern because this is real life.

858
00:46:25,810 --> 00:46:29,980
Speaker 6: This is real pain. And God not only can handle it,

859
00:46:30,469 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 6: carry it, but he can help us to move through it.

860
00:46:35,300 --> 00:46:38,180
Speaker 6: And that's the beauty.

861
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:42,359
Speaker 4: That is the beauty. That is the beauty. So, oh,

862
00:46:42,410 --> 00:46:42,970
Speaker 4: did you have a thought?

863
00:46:43,070 --> 00:46:44,870
Speaker 2: I just was going to say one more thing. There's

864
00:46:44,910 --> 00:46:47,930
Speaker 2: a whole book in the Bible called Lamentations. thank you

865
00:46:48,170 --> 00:46:51,330
Speaker 2: yes you know and so i'm just gonna land right there.

866
00:46:51,510 --> 00:46:54,870
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah there is that book we tend to forget

867
00:46:54,910 --> 00:46:57,989
Speaker 3: that we don't spend a tremendous.

868
00:46:56,910 --> 00:46:59,290
Speaker 4: Amount of time in there and we always.

869
00:46:59,090 --> 00:47:01,370
Speaker 3: Go we gravitate towards the psalm but i don't think

870
00:47:01,410 --> 00:47:05,380
Speaker 3: we use them as an instruction often all the time

871
00:47:05,410 --> 00:47:08,620
Speaker 3: you know in the body of christ to allow us

872
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,660
Speaker 3: to give us that freedom to really wrestle through this

873
00:47:12,219 --> 00:47:15,839
Speaker 3: i was brought down i have um I have this

874
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 3: pillow chair on my bed that my husband has tried

875
00:47:19,060 --> 00:47:22,359
Speaker 3: to throw away. Do you know the ones that have

876
00:47:22,390 --> 00:47:25,730
Speaker 3: the back and the arms on them? They're actually called

877
00:47:25,790 --> 00:47:30,549
Speaker 3: husband chairs. And I actually wrote a blog about this

878
00:47:30,670 --> 00:47:33,770
Speaker 3: one once. I called it My Other Husband. Because what

879
00:47:34,110 --> 00:47:36,370
Speaker 3: I do is I put it down on the carpet

880
00:47:37,370 --> 00:47:41,290
Speaker 3: and it becomes my altar. And this thing is probably

881
00:47:41,330 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 3: close to 30 years old and it's hideous. I've had

882
00:47:45,140 --> 00:47:47,370
Speaker 3: to restitch it. It's got stitching coming out of it.

883
00:47:47,420 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 3: There's stains all over it. And you know what the

884
00:47:49,700 --> 00:47:51,350
Speaker 3: stains are? Tears.

885
00:47:51,930 --> 00:47:52,550
Speaker 4: They're my tears.

886
00:47:53,870 --> 00:47:58,250
Speaker 3: That is my altar and it's my lament cushion. And

887
00:47:58,350 --> 00:48:03,529
Speaker 3: I have beat it senseless sometimes. I've beat it up.

888
00:48:04,550 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 4: And I cry on it.

889
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,460
Speaker 3: And it needs to be stitched back together. And I

890
00:48:08,500 --> 00:48:12,830
Speaker 3: will never get rid of it. Because the miles I

891
00:48:12,950 --> 00:48:18,750
Speaker 3: have wrestled with the Lord at that holy, ridiculous-looking altar,

892
00:48:18,770 --> 00:48:22,250
Speaker 3: I wouldn't trade it for anything. I couldn't point out

893
00:48:22,290 --> 00:48:26,270
Speaker 3: what each tear stain is, but I remember the wrestling

894
00:48:26,330 --> 00:48:30,430
Speaker 3: through it. And we need to have that place. So

895
00:48:31,030 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 3: when we get into these seasons, we need to lean

896
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 3: into God's family, that inner circle of, And the outer

897
00:48:38,390 --> 00:48:42,830
Speaker 3: circles who can maybe handle the logistical issues of our suffering.

898
00:48:42,989 --> 00:48:46,650
Speaker 3: But the inner circle who can handle the emotional pain

899
00:48:46,690 --> 00:48:49,950
Speaker 3: of our suffering. Who can walk through that with us.

900
00:48:50,930 --> 00:48:53,370
Speaker 3: And then, I'm going to flip this. We did it

901
00:48:53,430 --> 00:48:58,090
Speaker 3: in a different order. Lean into God's Word. Lean into it.

902
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 3: Because that's going to help us get to the place

903
00:49:00,739 --> 00:49:02,959
Speaker 3: where we can... And go, by the way, just spend

904
00:49:02,980 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 3: some time in Psalm 44.

905
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:05,259
Speaker 4: All of you.

906
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,270
Speaker 3: Because I was just... I still can't get over it.

907
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:10,319
Speaker 3: There have been a few times in my life where, like,

908
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 3: out of the blue, God drops a scripture passage in

909
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:15,930
Speaker 3: my spirit. And I'm like, and okay, who hasn't done

910
00:49:15,950 --> 00:49:18,210
Speaker 3: this before, where you turn to something and it was like, well,

911
00:49:18,230 --> 00:49:18,969
Speaker 3: that doesn't make sense.

912
00:49:19,310 --> 00:49:19,950
Speaker 4: I'm not saying it happens.

913
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:20,500
Speaker 2: Every time.

914
00:49:22,300 --> 00:49:24,880
Speaker 3: But there have been a few times where like it

915
00:49:24,940 --> 00:49:28,910
Speaker 3: was out of the blue and I know unmistakably God

916
00:49:29,750 --> 00:49:32,890
Speaker 3: prompted my spirit to go to this place in his word.

917
00:49:32,930 --> 00:49:36,450
Speaker 4: And when I got there, it just fed me.

918
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:40,489
Speaker 3: So richly didn't give me an answer for this particular passage.

919
00:49:40,510 --> 00:49:43,150
Speaker 3: Doesn't give me an answer for the suffering, but it

920
00:49:43,250 --> 00:49:47,330
Speaker 3: gives me the prescription for, well, it helps us to

921
00:49:47,410 --> 00:49:50,250
Speaker 3: lean into his character. And then the final thing, it

922
00:49:50,290 --> 00:49:53,210
Speaker 3: gives us the prescription of how to lament. And I love,

923
00:49:53,650 --> 00:49:57,529
Speaker 3: thank you so much, Aaron, for bringing us through the

924
00:49:57,730 --> 00:50:00,460
Speaker 3: aspects of lament that he invites us into.

925
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 4: This has been amazing.

926
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,290
Speaker 3: I'm going to get a little prophetic here and say

927
00:50:06,330 --> 00:50:07,370
Speaker 3: this needs to be a thing.

928
00:50:07,390 --> 00:50:09,050
Speaker 4: This needs to be a thing.

929
00:50:09,610 --> 00:50:11,750
Speaker 3: I like it. I love it. And you know what's

930
00:50:11,770 --> 00:50:14,890
Speaker 3: going to happen because you are moving back here because

931
00:50:14,910 --> 00:50:16,860
Speaker 3: you're trying to move back here, Erin. So you're going

932
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 3: to come and then we're going to get to be

933
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 3: all three in my studio, which will look a lot better.

934
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:22,660
Speaker 3: We're going to paint it. We're going to make it

935
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 3: look prettier and I'll.

936
00:50:23,460 --> 00:50:26,140
Speaker 4: Get extra mics. I apologize in advance.

937
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 3: Or actually this is the end at the end to

938
00:50:30,060 --> 00:50:32,020
Speaker 3: any of my listeners if the sound is in and

939
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 3: out we're trying to this first time I've had to

940
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:38,049
Speaker 3: operate the sound this way so I don't know hopefully

941
00:50:38,090 --> 00:50:41,330
Speaker 3: it's good hopefully we got it I think the conversation

942
00:50:41,850 --> 00:50:46,989
Speaker 3: was beyond rich and just so encouraging and this is

943
00:50:47,030 --> 00:50:48,790
Speaker 3: going to be a thing the three of us we're

944
00:50:48,810 --> 00:50:51,210
Speaker 3: going to be a thing doing this kind of revisiting

945
00:50:51,230 --> 00:50:54,569
Speaker 3: uh different topics maybe we'll pick a theological topic next

946
00:50:54,630 --> 00:50:56,049
Speaker 3: time and Hash it out.

947
00:50:56,150 --> 00:50:58,150
Speaker 4: Any final thoughts you have? I'll go to you first

948
00:50:58,210 --> 00:50:59,170
Speaker 4: this time, Erin.

949
00:51:00,190 --> 00:51:04,770
Speaker 6: No, I just want to say I know that life

950
00:51:05,130 --> 00:51:10,320
Speaker 6: is painful and confusing. And if somebody is in a

951
00:51:10,660 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 6: space like that right now, no judgment, but run to

952
00:51:15,980 --> 00:51:20,799
Speaker 6: your daddy's arms. We think, oh, I'm hurt. I need

953
00:51:20,820 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 6: to handle it alone. No, run to the Father God's arms.

954
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 6: and let him hold you, let him carry you through this.

955
00:51:28,900 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 3: That's how I put it in my notes. Instead of

956
00:51:30,700 --> 00:51:32,879
Speaker 3: lean into lament, which a lot of people may not

957
00:51:32,980 --> 00:51:36,140
Speaker 3: understand exactly what that is, although they do now because

958
00:51:36,700 --> 00:51:39,450
Speaker 3: you've described it so well, but lean into his arms.

959
00:51:39,890 --> 00:51:41,509
Speaker 4: Lean into his arms.

960
00:51:41,850 --> 00:51:44,170
Speaker 3: And that is where you lament.

961
00:51:44,350 --> 00:51:47,770
Speaker 2: Susan? I think that one of the things that I

962
00:51:47,810 --> 00:51:53,130
Speaker 2: would like to leave here is the fact that God

963
00:51:53,670 --> 00:52:00,020
Speaker 2: cares about the little things. If you have something small

964
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:06,089
Speaker 2: that has caused you deep pain and is maybe causing

965
00:52:06,110 --> 00:52:10,410
Speaker 2: you to question God's character or His heart towards you,

966
00:52:10,430 --> 00:52:13,870
Speaker 2: I would do, as Aaron said, lean into the Lord

967
00:52:14,070 --> 00:52:19,070
Speaker 2: in that and just sit with Him with those seemingly

968
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 2: small things. A lot of life's hardships are big.

969
00:52:23,050 --> 00:52:24,009
Speaker 5: But a lot of times it's.

970
00:52:23,910 --> 00:52:28,650
Speaker 2: The small things that tend to trip us up. And

971
00:52:28,750 --> 00:52:31,270
Speaker 2: those are the things that we think, oh, well, other

972
00:52:31,310 --> 00:52:33,790
Speaker 2: people have it worse than me, so therefore.

973
00:52:34,930 --> 00:52:39,010
Speaker 5: No, it's still important to the Lord. He wants to heal.

974
00:52:39,210 --> 00:52:42,770
Speaker 2: He wants to meet you in those spaces with those

975
00:52:43,330 --> 00:52:47,089
Speaker 2: small things. Because as Erin said earlier, you know, life

976
00:52:47,150 --> 00:52:47,610
Speaker 2: is made.

977
00:52:47,469 --> 00:52:49,930
Speaker 5: Of many, many, many small moments.

978
00:52:50,489 --> 00:52:50,770
Speaker 6: Mm-hmm.

979
00:52:51,820 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 3: Yes, the verse that comes to mind for me to

980
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:58,819
Speaker 3: end with is my favorite verse. It's Romans 4.17. He

981
00:52:58,940 --> 00:53:03,469
Speaker 3: is the God who brings life from the dead and

982
00:53:03,510 --> 00:53:06,010
Speaker 3: calls things that are not as though they are. So

983
00:53:06,050 --> 00:53:11,450
Speaker 3: God is committed to redeeming and to bringing purpose.

984
00:53:13,330 --> 00:53:13,569
Speaker 2: Dr.

985
00:53:13,610 --> 00:53:16,750
Speaker 3: Groteis in our conversation, he talked about how he would

986
00:53:16,790 --> 00:53:19,150
Speaker 3: go to, and I talked about this a little bit

987
00:53:19,190 --> 00:53:24,240
Speaker 3: in the last episode, his wife, very tragically had dementia

988
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:29,180
Speaker 3: contracted that at a young age brilliant brilliant woman and

989
00:53:29,219 --> 00:53:32,540
Speaker 3: he talks about how you can smelt meaning out of

990
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:36,290
Speaker 3: your pain and suffering and he talked about how it

991
00:53:36,350 --> 00:53:38,610
Speaker 3: was so small you're talking about the small things he

992
00:53:38,630 --> 00:53:41,790
Speaker 3: would go to at a certain point she was in

993
00:53:41,830 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 3: assisted living and he would go to spend time with

994
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:49,290
Speaker 3: her there and whether he was just putting a hand

995
00:53:49,370 --> 00:53:52,029
Speaker 3: on someone's shoulder or saying a prayer with someone. It

996
00:53:52,050 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 3: was a very, very depressing place. But he smelt meaning

997
00:53:57,780 --> 00:54:01,979
Speaker 3: out of it by being a light and by being

998
00:54:02,020 --> 00:54:05,660
Speaker 3: a comfort and by picking up a comb somebody had dropped.

999
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:07,380
Speaker 4: I'm like the littlest things.

1000
00:54:08,020 --> 00:54:10,739
Speaker 3: And we can smelt meaning out of our pain. Sometimes

1001
00:54:11,460 --> 00:54:14,259
Speaker 3: it doesn't make sense. And there's a lot of things

1002
00:54:14,300 --> 00:54:16,719
Speaker 3: we talked about in these two episodes that don't make

1003
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:21,650
Speaker 3: sense to us. But walking through it with our Heavenly

1004
00:54:21,690 --> 00:54:27,990
Speaker 3: Father and journaling about it and with our small group

1005
00:54:28,030 --> 00:54:30,980
Speaker 3: of friends and leaning into His Word and His character,

1006
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:32,580
Speaker 3: that's what gets us through.

1007
00:54:32,620 --> 00:54:33,300
Speaker 4: Thank you, ladies.

1008
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:36,660
Speaker 3: I can't wait until the next time we join together and.

1009
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:37,360
Speaker 4: Talk about something.

1010
00:54:38,100 --> 00:54:40,060
Speaker 5: Well, thank you, Catherine. It was an honor to be here.

1011
00:54:40,219 --> 00:54:42,280
Speaker 6: Thank you so much, Catherine and Susan.

1012
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:42,900
Speaker 4: Good to see you.

1013
00:54:44,870 --> 00:54:47,310
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I have a couple of final thoughts I

1014
00:54:47,330 --> 00:54:50,930
Speaker 1: want to share with you about suffering. Because like I

1015
00:54:50,950 --> 00:54:55,450
Speaker 1: said in the introduction, this conversation has really stayed with me.

1016
00:54:55,469 --> 00:54:58,330
Speaker 1: I haven't been able to move on from it. And

1017
00:54:58,370 --> 00:55:01,989
Speaker 1: I think that's because wrestling with God is one of

1018
00:55:02,030 --> 00:55:05,590
Speaker 1: those deep, necessary parts of our faith, and we don't

1019
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:10,850
Speaker 1: talk about it nearly enough. So recently we were visiting

1020
00:55:10,890 --> 00:55:13,670
Speaker 1: a new church here in Nashville, in the Nashville area,

1021
00:55:13,690 --> 00:55:17,130
Speaker 1: and the pastor took us to Habakkuk chapter two. I

1022
00:55:17,630 --> 00:55:20,140
Speaker 1: always love it when you go to one of these deep, rich,

1023
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:23,859
Speaker 1: meaty Old Testament prophets, major or minor, I don't care.

1024
00:55:23,900 --> 00:55:26,140
Speaker 4: I love being in the Old Testament.

1025
00:55:26,700 --> 00:55:29,630
Speaker 1: And this is a section of scripture where the prophet

1026
00:55:29,670 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 1: Habakkuk brings his complaint to the Lord. And the pastor

1027
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:37,280
Speaker 1: made a statement that I bet you haven't heard preached

1028
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:44,240
Speaker 1: quite so bluntly. He said, it's okay to complain. But

1029
00:55:44,300 --> 00:55:48,030
Speaker 1: he gave us two conditions for our complaint.

1030
00:55:48,770 --> 00:55:49,910
Speaker 4: The first one is this.

1031
00:55:50,570 --> 00:55:54,750
Speaker 1: It's okay to complain as long as we bring our

1032
00:55:54,790 --> 00:56:00,430
Speaker 1: complaint directly to God. That's what Habakkuk did. It's what

1033
00:56:00,469 --> 00:56:04,270
Speaker 1: we see throughout the Psalms, including Psalm 44, written by

1034
00:56:04,310 --> 00:56:06,549
Speaker 1: the sons of Korah. And I want you to hear

1035
00:56:06,790 --> 00:56:11,130
Speaker 1: again just how bold this Psalm is and this complaint

1036
00:56:11,290 --> 00:56:14,049
Speaker 1: is in this Psalm. So, of course, he starts out

1037
00:56:14,550 --> 00:56:17,719
Speaker 1: reminding us of God's faithfulness to his people in the

1038
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 1: past and to he himself and his brothers. But then

1039
00:56:22,540 --> 00:56:27,620
Speaker 1: the tone shifts dramatically. And he essentially says, but now...

1040
00:56:28,140 --> 00:56:31,780
Speaker 1: Speaking to God, you have rejected us. You no longer

1041
00:56:31,820 --> 00:56:34,980
Speaker 1: go out with our armies. You made us retreat before

1042
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 1: our enemies. You gave us up to be devoured like sheep.

1043
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:42,469
Speaker 1: You scattered us among the nations. You sold your people

1044
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:46,410
Speaker 1: for a pittance. You made us a reproach to our neighbors,

1045
00:56:46,590 --> 00:56:50,970
Speaker 1: the scorn and derision of those around us. You made

1046
00:56:51,110 --> 00:56:55,710
Speaker 1: us a byword among the nations. Do you hear the repetition?

1047
00:56:56,330 --> 00:56:59,569
Speaker 1: You did this. You allowed that. You brought us here.

1048
00:57:01,130 --> 00:57:06,819
Speaker 1: This is not a mild complaint. The psalmist is laying

1049
00:57:06,890 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 1: the blame squarely at God's feet. He is telling God

1050
00:57:11,020 --> 00:57:15,280
Speaker 1: exactly how he sees the situation. And he's not pulling

1051
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:18,420
Speaker 1: any punches. And here's what I want you to understand.

1052
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:25,260
Speaker 1: God allowed that complaint to be recorded in Scripture. He

1053
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:29,210
Speaker 1: didn't remove it because it was too uncomfortable or disrespectful.

1054
00:57:29,910 --> 00:57:34,390
Speaker 1: He preserved it for generations of believers who would face

1055
00:57:34,590 --> 00:57:40,169
Speaker 1: their own seasons of suffering. In other words, this isn't

1056
00:57:40,190 --> 00:57:44,980
Speaker 1: just permission to be honest with God. It's a blueprint,

1057
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 1: a biblical blueprint for bringing our anguish and our pain

1058
00:57:51,140 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 1: and our questions and our complaints directly to him. That's

1059
00:57:56,280 --> 00:58:00,500
Speaker 1: why when I was sitting there on my bed contemplating

1060
00:58:01,340 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 1: the death of a righteous man with a righteous cause,

1061
00:58:05,180 --> 00:58:08,750
Speaker 1: the Lord just said, go to Psalm 44.

1062
00:58:08,750 --> 00:58:09,250
Speaker 6: And I did.

1063
00:58:09,330 --> 00:58:14,310
Speaker 1: And there was the blueprint for everything I was going through. Now,

1064
00:58:14,390 --> 00:58:18,370
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean every conclusion we draw in our pain

1065
00:58:18,550 --> 00:58:19,110
Speaker 1: is correct.

1066
00:58:20,490 --> 00:58:20,870
Speaker 2: And you know what?

1067
00:58:20,990 --> 00:58:23,610
Speaker 1: I don't think the conclusions that the son of Korah

1068
00:58:23,690 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 1: drew in this psalm, in Psalm 44, were correct. But

1069
00:58:29,260 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 1: you know what was correct? The process. He brought his

1070
00:58:34,660 --> 00:58:38,650
Speaker 1: complaint to God. We don't have to hide our pain

1071
00:58:38,690 --> 00:58:45,210
Speaker 1: from God. We can bring the messy, angry, confused, unfiltered

1072
00:58:45,370 --> 00:58:51,530
Speaker 1: truth about what we're experiencing directly to Him. And sometimes

1073
00:58:51,630 --> 00:58:54,610
Speaker 1: our words may be raw. We might not even want

1074
00:58:54,670 --> 00:58:57,750
Speaker 1: to put a deer in front of our journal entry.

1075
00:58:58,570 --> 00:59:01,170
Speaker 1: But we can bring it to the one who knows

1076
00:59:01,330 --> 00:59:07,190
Speaker 1: our hearts completely and can handle our honesty. And why

1077
00:59:07,230 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 1: do we bring it to them? first of all, because

1078
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:15,730
Speaker 1: he tells us to. But more than that, because he's

1079
00:59:15,770 --> 00:59:19,090
Speaker 1: the only one with the power to do something about it.

1080
00:59:20,390 --> 00:59:23,970
Speaker 1: The danger comes when we don't do that and when

1081
00:59:24,010 --> 00:59:26,810
Speaker 1: we take our pain somewhere else to find relief and

1082
00:59:27,370 --> 00:59:30,310
Speaker 1: things that cannot truly help us. As Aaron pointed out

1083
00:59:30,330 --> 00:59:33,570
Speaker 1: in our conversation, we can lean on unhealthy crutches like

1084
00:59:34,170 --> 00:59:38,390
Speaker 1: alcohol and drugs and unholy relationships, or we can get

1085
00:59:38,470 --> 00:59:41,990
Speaker 1: caught in a cycle of complaining to other people about

1086
00:59:42,050 --> 00:59:46,730
Speaker 1: what God has allowed without ever bringing our anguish to

1087
00:59:46,770 --> 00:59:54,010
Speaker 1: God himself. So yes, bring your complaint to God. Tell

1088
00:59:54,090 --> 00:59:58,150
Speaker 1: him the unvarnished truth about what hurts. Don't let your

1089
00:59:58,230 --> 01:00:02,310
Speaker 1: pain become a wall between you and the one who

1090
01:00:02,370 --> 01:00:07,420
Speaker 1: loves you. But here's the second condition. When we bring

1091
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:13,060
Speaker 1: our complaint to God, we must be willing to be corrected.

1092
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 1: Because you see, sometimes our suffering is the result of

1093
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:22,090
Speaker 1: our own choices. Maybe we've been willfully disobedient, or perhaps

1094
01:00:22,170 --> 01:00:25,740
Speaker 1: we've acted out of ignorance or immaturity or a lack

1095
01:00:25,780 --> 01:00:29,540
Speaker 1: of understanding. And in those moments, God may need to

1096
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 1: correct us. And we must be humble enough to listen.

1097
01:00:34,100 --> 01:00:36,390
Speaker 1: And we must be willing to repent when he shows

1098
01:00:36,470 --> 01:00:42,210
Speaker 1: us where we've gone wrong. But sometimes, as we see

1099
01:00:42,270 --> 01:00:46,000
Speaker 1: in Psalm 44, we have done nothing wrong. The sons

1100
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:49,880
Speaker 1: of Korah described themselves as people who have remained faithful

1101
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:53,840
Speaker 1: to God and yet are suffering terribly. And as we

1102
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:57,110
Speaker 1: discussed in our conversation, that was the case with Rusty.

1103
01:00:57,410 --> 01:01:02,130
Speaker 1: Sometimes suffering comes even when we're doing our best to

1104
01:01:02,170 --> 01:01:06,910
Speaker 1: follow God. So what does correction look like when we

1105
01:01:06,950 --> 01:01:13,450
Speaker 1: haven't done anything wrong? Well, sometimes correction isn't about changing

1106
01:01:13,530 --> 01:01:19,860
Speaker 1: our behavior. It's about correcting our perspective. Go back to

1107
01:01:19,900 --> 01:01:23,500
Speaker 1: the beginning of Psalm 44. Before the psalmist describes the

1108
01:01:23,580 --> 01:01:30,100
Speaker 1: devastation they're experiencing, he recounts God's faithfulness to their ancestors

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01:01:30,700 --> 01:01:34,580
Speaker 1: and to themselves. All the mighty things that God has

1110
01:01:34,660 --> 01:01:39,380
Speaker 1: done for his people. He's reminding himself of what he

1111
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:44,360
Speaker 1: knows about God, even when his present circumstances are difficult

1112
01:01:44,570 --> 01:01:49,050
Speaker 1: to reconcile with that knowledge. Throughout the Old Testament, God

1113
01:01:49,110 --> 01:01:54,110
Speaker 1: instructed his people to set up stones of remembrance after

1114
01:01:54,170 --> 01:01:56,790
Speaker 1: he had done something mighty on their behalf.

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01:01:57,790 --> 01:01:58,210
Speaker 2: Why?

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01:01:59,470 --> 01:02:03,440
Speaker 1: Because God knew there would be times when they would suffer.

1117
01:02:04,090 --> 01:02:06,570
Speaker 1: when they would be tempted to doubt his goodness and

1118
01:02:06,610 --> 01:02:10,230
Speaker 1: his faithfulness, and they would need to remember what he

1119
01:02:10,270 --> 01:02:15,290
Speaker 1: had done before. And we need those reminders as well.

1120
01:02:15,830 --> 01:02:18,090
Speaker 1: We need to go back to the moments when God

1121
01:02:18,150 --> 01:02:21,450
Speaker 1: was faithful to us before. When he opened a door

1122
01:02:21,570 --> 01:02:25,090
Speaker 1: we couldn't open. When he provided what we couldn't provide

1123
01:02:25,150 --> 01:02:29,610
Speaker 1: or carried us through something we never could have managed.

1124
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:30,220
Speaker 2: On our own.

1125
01:02:31,100 --> 01:02:34,340
Speaker 1: So when suffering makes it hard to see God's goodness,

1126
01:02:34,900 --> 01:02:39,419
Speaker 1: you must remember the times you've experienced it. That doesn't

1127
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:43,320
Speaker 1: mean your past experiences will explain your present pain. I

1128
01:02:43,380 --> 01:02:47,400
Speaker 1: still don't understand why Rusty died. Or why those situations

1129
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:49,360
Speaker 1: with the cats didn't turn out the way we prayed

1130
01:02:49,410 --> 01:02:51,970
Speaker 1: they would. I don't know if I'll ever know this

1131
01:02:52,010 --> 01:02:55,470
Speaker 1: side of heaven. But I can look back on my

1132
01:02:55,550 --> 01:02:59,590
Speaker 1: life and remember the many times God has been faithful.

1133
01:03:01,300 --> 01:03:04,000
Speaker 1: And that reminds me of something I must not forget

1134
01:03:04,060 --> 01:03:07,920
Speaker 1: when life hurts. I may not understand what God is doing,

1135
01:03:08,620 --> 01:03:11,310
Speaker 1: but I have a history with Him. I have seen

1136
01:03:11,330 --> 01:03:15,330
Speaker 1: His goodness, and I have experienced His faithfulness. And I

1137
01:03:15,390 --> 01:03:19,130
Speaker 1: can bring my questions and my complaints to Him while

1138
01:03:19,190 --> 01:03:26,170
Speaker 1: continuing to trust who He is. That's the correction that

1139
01:03:26,190 --> 01:03:30,840
Speaker 1: can come through an honest lament to God. We bring

1140
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:34,460
Speaker 1: Him our pain and we allow Him to remind us

1141
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:38,280
Speaker 1: of what remains true about His character, even when we

1142
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:44,360
Speaker 1: cannot make sense of our circumstances. You know, I hope

1143
01:03:44,420 --> 01:03:47,880
Speaker 1: these episodes have helped you to feel more confident in

1144
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:51,710
Speaker 1: bringing your pain to God, more grounded in what Scripture

1145
01:03:51,750 --> 01:03:57,130
Speaker 1: says about suffering. And better equipped to lean on God's community,

1146
01:03:57,310 --> 01:04:02,170
Speaker 1: into his word, into his character, and into his arms

1147
01:04:02,410 --> 01:04:05,590
Speaker 1: when life gets hard. And when you have a complaint,

1148
01:04:06,150 --> 01:04:08,700
Speaker 1: that's okay. Just make sure, number one, you bring it

1149
01:04:08,740 --> 01:04:14,080
Speaker 1: to God himself. And number two, you stay open to

1150
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:19,080
Speaker 1: his correction. By the way, that was Pastor Lyle Phillips

1151
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:19,880
Speaker 1: of Legacy Church.

1152
01:04:20,250 --> 01:04:20,710
Speaker 3: Nashville.

1153
01:04:20,730 --> 01:04:22,230
Speaker 1: I'll put a link in the show notes so you

1154
01:04:22,270 --> 01:04:25,350
Speaker 1: can hear the message yourself if you'd like. But as parents,

1155
01:04:25,390 --> 01:04:26,370
Speaker 1: you know, this matters for.

1156
01:04:26,330 --> 01:04:27,090
Speaker 4: Our kids too.

1157
01:04:27,470 --> 01:04:29,450
Speaker 1: We can show them that faith doesn't mean we never

1158
01:04:29,470 --> 01:04:33,070
Speaker 1: have to struggle or have hard questions. We can model

1159
01:04:33,110 --> 01:04:36,550
Speaker 1: what it looks like to bring those questions and complaints

1160
01:04:37,210 --> 01:04:40,730
Speaker 1: to God and to listen when He corrects us, to

1161
01:04:40,770 --> 01:04:45,230
Speaker 1: remember His faithfulness, and to keep trusting in His character,

1162
01:04:45,810 --> 01:04:50,980
Speaker 1: even when we don't understand His ways. So if this

1163
01:04:51,020 --> 01:04:53,200
Speaker 1: conversation has helped you, please share it with a friend

1164
01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:58,320
Speaker 1: who might need this kind of encouragement too. And as always, remember,

1165
01:04:58,730 --> 01:05:03,090
Speaker 1: God gave you your kids, your specific kids, for a reason.

1166
01:05:03,670 --> 01:05:07,210
Speaker 1: That's because you hold the key to unlocking who God

1167
01:05:07,330 --> 01:05:08,470
Speaker 1: created them to be.

1168
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:10,020
Speaker 4: I'll see you next time.

1169
01:05:17,180 --> 01:05:20,310
Speaker 1: Christian Parent Crazy World is a production of Life.

1170
01:05:20,150 --> 01:05:21,490
Speaker 5: Audio and Salem Media.

1171
01:05:22,070 --> 01:05:24,670
Speaker 1: If you liked what you heard today, please take a second.

1172
01:05:24,430 --> 01:05:27,630
Speaker 2: To rate and review this podcast in your favorite podcast

1173
01:05:27,730 --> 01:05:30,500
Speaker 2: app so that more listeners like you can find the show.

1174
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:35,420
Speaker 1: For more faith-filled, inspirational podcasts, visit us at lifeaudio.com.