1 00:00:08,165 --> 00:00:15,125 Speaker 1: Life audio. You can know this grace personally. You don't 2 00:00:15,165 --> 00:00:17,884 Speaker 1: have to change anything. All you've got to do is 3 00:00:17,965 --> 00:00:24,564 Speaker 1: come to Christ. Let Jesus become your channel to God. 4 00:00:25,525 --> 00:00:30,885 Speaker 1: Let him become your own personal Lord and savior. 5 00:00:38,325 --> 00:00:40,645 Speaker 2: Last time on the Greg Glory Show, I sat down 6 00:00:40,685 --> 00:00:45,724 Speaker 2: with the legendary pastor Chuck Swindahl. You look back and 7 00:00:45,805 --> 00:00:49,045 Speaker 2: you realize that God had a plan for us even 8 00:00:49,085 --> 00:00:50,125 Speaker 2: before we were born. 9 00:00:50,805 --> 00:00:54,085 Speaker 1: I just think, Lord, you're too good. How could you 10 00:00:54,245 --> 00:00:59,165 Speaker 1: use a a kid that wasn't even wanted like you've 11 00:00:59,245 --> 00:01:06,444 Speaker 1: used me, like you're using Greg and put a absolute privilege. 12 00:01:07,805 --> 00:01:11,725 Speaker 1: So you lost your boy finally got back on your feet. 13 00:01:12,804 --> 00:01:14,205 Speaker 1: Was there a difference in you're preaching. 14 00:01:15,005 --> 00:01:17,245 Speaker 2: Yes, you asked me if I took time off. I 15 00:01:17,285 --> 00:01:19,765 Speaker 2: took a little time off, but I had this crusade 16 00:01:19,804 --> 00:01:24,685 Speaker 2: scheduled two weeks after this event happened, and people ask me, well, 17 00:01:24,725 --> 00:01:27,244 Speaker 2: are you going to do the crusade? And I said, 18 00:01:27,285 --> 00:01:30,125 Speaker 2: of course, I'm going to do the crusade because when 19 00:01:30,165 --> 00:01:33,405 Speaker 2: I was preaching, because you know, the Bible says Jesus said, 20 00:01:34,165 --> 00:01:38,444 Speaker 2: there is joy in the presence of the angels over 21 00:01:38,525 --> 00:01:41,964 Speaker 2: one sinner that comes to repentance. You know, I think 22 00:01:42,005 --> 00:01:44,885 Speaker 2: that people in heaven may know more than we think 23 00:01:44,965 --> 00:01:48,485 Speaker 2: they know, and there is an awareness in heaven of 24 00:01:48,565 --> 00:01:53,965 Speaker 2: sinners coming to repentance. Every time a person repents, Heaven rejoices. 25 00:01:54,605 --> 00:01:56,725 Speaker 2: And I thought, you know, is my son watching me 26 00:01:56,885 --> 00:01:59,325 Speaker 2: from heaven? I don't know. I know the Lord's watching me. 27 00:01:59,925 --> 00:02:01,365 Speaker 2: I know my son is in heaven. 28 00:02:01,565 --> 00:02:02,525 Speaker 1: That's a good statement. 29 00:02:02,685 --> 00:02:04,245 Speaker 2: We don't know, Yeah, we don't know. 30 00:02:04,365 --> 00:02:07,525 Speaker 1: We talk about people watching all that, Well, they've seeing 31 00:02:07,565 --> 00:02:09,645 Speaker 1: a lot of bad stuff and they're watching this earth, 32 00:02:09,765 --> 00:02:11,045 Speaker 1: you know, but. 33 00:02:11,005 --> 00:02:14,285 Speaker 2: They're aware if they're aware of people coming to Christ. 34 00:02:15,085 --> 00:02:18,285 Speaker 2: And so that was the one place where I found 35 00:02:19,125 --> 00:02:22,405 Speaker 2: relief was when I was preaching and I wasn't thinking 36 00:02:22,445 --> 00:02:25,445 Speaker 2: about myself or thinking about my pain. I was focused 37 00:02:25,445 --> 00:02:28,565 Speaker 2: on the Lord and on the gospel and on people 38 00:02:28,605 --> 00:02:33,965 Speaker 2: hearing the gospel. That that was I found, strangely, a 39 00:02:34,085 --> 00:02:38,845 Speaker 2: renewed strength, a willingness to do things I would have 40 00:02:38,925 --> 00:02:41,605 Speaker 2: never done before, a willingness to take risks. 41 00:02:41,885 --> 00:02:44,205 Speaker 1: Let me ask you something here, Yeah, did you start 42 00:02:44,365 --> 00:02:46,045 Speaker 1: fearing for your other children? 43 00:02:46,725 --> 00:02:47,845 Speaker 2: Well, I have one other son. 44 00:02:48,165 --> 00:02:49,285 Speaker 1: Oh you have one of his songs? 45 00:02:49,365 --> 00:02:49,525 Speaker 2: Yeah? 46 00:02:50,605 --> 00:02:53,885 Speaker 1: Did you start thinking, oh, be careful, be careful. 47 00:02:53,565 --> 00:02:56,205 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure, Oh yes, yes, of course I 48 00:02:56,445 --> 00:02:57,485 Speaker 2: was very aware of. 49 00:02:57,405 --> 00:03:00,645 Speaker 1: That premonitions like this could be dangerous. 50 00:03:00,845 --> 00:03:03,965 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was more of just because my son, 51 00:03:04,085 --> 00:03:09,405 Speaker 2: my younger son, Johnathan, he also had been a prodigal, 52 00:03:09,845 --> 00:03:14,165 Speaker 2: and his brother Christopher, the night before he went to 53 00:03:14,245 --> 00:03:18,205 Speaker 2: heaven said, did Jonathan, Jonathan, you need to get right 54 00:03:18,245 --> 00:03:21,605 Speaker 2: with the Lord? What's it going to take? And after 55 00:03:21,725 --> 00:03:26,565 Speaker 2: Christopher died That's I'm not saying God took Christopher so 56 00:03:26,725 --> 00:03:31,805 Speaker 2: Jonathan message would come to christ But it was more like, 57 00:03:32,325 --> 00:03:35,365 Speaker 2: despite that horrible tragedy, that is what it took to 58 00:03:35,405 --> 00:03:39,005 Speaker 2: open Jonathan's eyes. And not only did Jonathan recommit his 59 00:03:39,085 --> 00:03:41,845 Speaker 2: life to the Lord, but he felt it called a ministry, 60 00:03:42,485 --> 00:03:46,085 Speaker 2: and so it was you could see how God works 61 00:03:46,125 --> 00:03:49,405 Speaker 2: these things. You know. I love your teaching on the 62 00:03:49,445 --> 00:03:52,845 Speaker 2: Sovereignty of God and Romans eight twenty eight in particular. 63 00:03:53,245 --> 00:03:55,925 Speaker 2: I never get tired of thinking about Romans eight twenty eight. 64 00:03:57,005 --> 00:03:58,885 Speaker 2: It's just so rich and deep. 65 00:03:58,685 --> 00:04:01,285 Speaker 1: And it isn't all good, but it all works together 66 00:04:01,365 --> 00:04:01,725 Speaker 1: for good. 67 00:04:01,805 --> 00:04:06,725 Speaker 2: Yeah, all things work together they do for good. They do. 68 00:04:06,805 --> 00:04:09,725 Speaker 2: I mean the classic example is Joseph to his brothers, 69 00:04:09,725 --> 00:04:11,885 Speaker 2: you meant this or evil God and mat it for good. 70 00:04:12,165 --> 00:04:14,845 Speaker 2: But there are things that happen in our life that 71 00:04:14,925 --> 00:04:17,525 Speaker 2: are bad. I'll always think of this as a bad thing. 72 00:04:18,485 --> 00:04:21,045 Speaker 2: I'll always think of this as a tragedy, the death 73 00:04:21,085 --> 00:04:24,965 Speaker 2: of my son. However, I would also acknowledge that many 74 00:04:25,045 --> 00:04:28,485 Speaker 2: good things have come into my life and out of 75 00:04:28,525 --> 00:04:31,885 Speaker 2: this that God has brought. So I don't have to 76 00:04:31,965 --> 00:04:35,685 Speaker 2: understand all of that. But He, you know, as Scripture says, 77 00:04:35,725 --> 00:04:38,805 Speaker 2: all things are His servants, and so I just believe 78 00:04:39,125 --> 00:04:42,565 Speaker 2: that it's in process. And there are times, Chuck, after 79 00:04:42,645 --> 00:04:46,045 Speaker 2: it happened, I'd be driving along and I would have 80 00:04:46,125 --> 00:04:50,125 Speaker 2: a memory. Something would remind me of Christopher, and I 81 00:04:50,165 --> 00:04:53,285 Speaker 2: would say, I'll never see him again. I'll never hear 82 00:04:53,325 --> 00:04:55,404 Speaker 2: his voice again. And I would start going into a 83 00:04:55,605 --> 00:04:59,365 Speaker 2: dark hole and I would literally preach to myself and 84 00:04:59,405 --> 00:05:02,885 Speaker 2: I would literally say, Greg, shut up, Well you're going 85 00:05:02,965 --> 00:05:05,285 Speaker 2: to see him again, Yeah, I said. The Bible says, 86 00:05:05,605 --> 00:05:08,205 Speaker 2: oh boy, I am the resurrection and the life. He 87 00:05:08,285 --> 00:05:10,445 Speaker 2: that believes in me, though he were dead, Yet shall 88 00:05:10,445 --> 00:05:13,604 Speaker 2: he live. Whosoever lives and believes in me shall never die. 89 00:05:14,045 --> 00:05:16,685 Speaker 2: You're gonna see your son again, you know. Immediately, as 90 00:05:16,725 --> 00:05:19,365 Speaker 2: I would just quote this scripture to myself. It would 91 00:05:19,365 --> 00:05:22,005 Speaker 2: lift me out of that pit because I would get 92 00:05:22,005 --> 00:05:26,045 Speaker 2: a heavenly perspective. And so I've tried to take this 93 00:05:26,725 --> 00:05:30,245 Speaker 2: horrible event and use it as a tool good to 94 00:05:30,285 --> 00:05:34,365 Speaker 2: help people and to show them that God can walk 95 00:05:34,405 --> 00:05:38,325 Speaker 2: with you through the most unbelievable difficulties in life. 96 00:05:38,565 --> 00:05:42,725 Speaker 1: Okay, switch over. Yes, what would you do differently if 97 00:05:42,765 --> 00:05:44,925 Speaker 1: you had these fifty years to live over again? 98 00:05:45,685 --> 00:05:49,085 Speaker 2: Wow, I've never been asked that before. 99 00:05:49,405 --> 00:05:50,565 Speaker 1: You don't have to be profiled. 100 00:05:50,685 --> 00:05:55,365 Speaker 2: I would hang out with you more. What would I 101 00:05:55,405 --> 00:05:56,005 Speaker 2: do differently? 102 00:05:56,725 --> 00:05:58,365 Speaker 1: Well, we'd have fun. I'll tell you that. 103 00:05:58,885 --> 00:06:00,765 Speaker 2: You know, I don't want to say that I wouldn't 104 00:06:00,805 --> 00:06:06,125 Speaker 2: do anything differently, But for the most part, I don't 105 00:06:06,165 --> 00:06:07,885 Speaker 2: know that I would do anything more. So you don't 106 00:06:07,925 --> 00:06:13,165 Speaker 2: have any regrets? Well, yes, little, I mean things here 107 00:06:13,165 --> 00:06:15,404 Speaker 2: and there, but there's not any big thing in life 108 00:06:16,125 --> 00:06:19,805 Speaker 2: or I would say I should have done this. Or no, 109 00:06:19,965 --> 00:06:23,645 Speaker 2: I can't say I have any major regrets. Okay, that's 110 00:06:23,685 --> 00:06:27,605 Speaker 2: probably not good. Billy Graham once was asked you know 111 00:06:27,965 --> 00:06:30,645 Speaker 2: what he would do differently? He said, I would preach 112 00:06:30,685 --> 00:06:34,325 Speaker 2: half as much. I would spend more time praying, more 113 00:06:34,405 --> 00:06:36,605 Speaker 2: time studying the word of God and telling the Lord 114 00:06:36,605 --> 00:06:39,005 Speaker 2: how much I love them. Well, I could certainly say that. 115 00:06:39,325 --> 00:06:39,604 Speaker 1: Sure. 116 00:06:39,765 --> 00:06:43,285 Speaker 2: Should I have prayed more throughout my life? Yes, everybody 117 00:06:43,325 --> 00:06:47,245 Speaker 2: could say. Have I worried too much at times? Absolutely? Yes? 118 00:06:48,405 --> 00:06:50,885 Speaker 2: Have I been impulsive at times I'm run ahead of 119 00:06:50,885 --> 00:06:54,685 Speaker 2: the Lord? Sure I have. But by and large I 120 00:06:54,725 --> 00:06:58,485 Speaker 2: would say that I've found the will of God and 121 00:06:58,565 --> 00:07:02,125 Speaker 2: I've sought to walk in it, And so I can't 122 00:07:02,165 --> 00:07:04,964 Speaker 2: say I would do anything differently for the most part. 123 00:07:04,965 --> 00:07:11,245 Speaker 2: What about you, Oh, I would have said yes. 124 00:07:12,845 --> 00:07:22,205 Speaker 1: More often, sooner than no, to what opportunities open doors, 125 00:07:27,245 --> 00:07:32,645 Speaker 1: stepping into something that I never dreamed I would do. 126 00:07:34,445 --> 00:07:38,205 Speaker 1: I wouldn't be as reluctant. I think that goes back 127 00:07:38,245 --> 00:07:42,045 Speaker 1: to my very very early years. Yes, I'm not trying 128 00:07:42,045 --> 00:07:47,045 Speaker 1: to excuse it, but my brother was not reluctant man. 129 00:07:47,325 --> 00:07:48,885 Speaker 1: He would take on you know. He went to a 130 00:07:48,965 --> 00:07:52,565 Speaker 1: mission field thirty three and a half years in Buenos Aires. 131 00:07:53,045 --> 00:07:56,645 Speaker 1: And and when you go down there, when I go 132 00:07:56,725 --> 00:08:02,205 Speaker 1: down there, I'm known as Orvo's brother, you know. And 133 00:08:03,045 --> 00:08:07,885 Speaker 1: he just been a boor right to it. I was 134 00:08:07,965 --> 00:08:11,165 Speaker 1: a little too cautious. Sometimes I was a little too 135 00:08:11,285 --> 00:08:15,405 Speaker 1: strong with my children. I would have been a little 136 00:08:16,965 --> 00:08:20,645 Speaker 1: I should have been quicker to say, yeah, that'd be fine, Yeah, 137 00:08:20,765 --> 00:08:24,005 Speaker 1: that'd be fine. Cynthia helped me with that. She said 138 00:08:24,005 --> 00:08:27,925 Speaker 1: to me one day, you know, honey, you and I 139 00:08:28,005 --> 00:08:33,525 Speaker 1: are both really cautious about our children, and for that reason, 140 00:08:33,965 --> 00:08:38,125 Speaker 1: we started saying no right away to most things they 141 00:08:38,165 --> 00:08:43,285 Speaker 1: want to do. We need to stop that. And came 142 00:08:43,325 --> 00:08:46,245 Speaker 1: across the whole idea of a yes face when I 143 00:08:46,285 --> 00:08:50,285 Speaker 1: wrote my book on Grace, yes and we needed to 144 00:08:50,325 --> 00:08:54,445 Speaker 1: develop a yes face. And I think I probably frowned 145 00:08:54,445 --> 00:08:58,485 Speaker 1: too much. Rather than gave my children a yes face 146 00:08:59,845 --> 00:09:02,885 Speaker 1: and told him I would have probably told him earlier 147 00:09:03,805 --> 00:09:07,765 Speaker 1: how proud I am of them, how pleased I am 148 00:09:07,805 --> 00:09:14,365 Speaker 1: with them. I would have affirmed more and criticized less. 149 00:09:16,485 --> 00:09:17,125 Speaker 2: I would have. 150 00:09:18,765 --> 00:09:22,205 Speaker 1: Been more patient. Why are we so impatient? 151 00:09:22,365 --> 00:09:22,765 Speaker 2: It's just. 152 00:09:24,325 --> 00:09:28,045 Speaker 1: Our Lord is so patient with us, and we turn 153 00:09:28,165 --> 00:09:32,925 Speaker 1: around and expected the next thing to perfection from others 154 00:09:33,205 --> 00:09:38,925 Speaker 1: or they failed at this. Okay, did the world stop turning? 155 00:09:39,045 --> 00:09:43,444 Speaker 1: You know? Did the did the sun stop burning? I mean, 156 00:09:44,645 --> 00:09:51,125 Speaker 1: life goes on. And I probably would have earlier on 157 00:09:51,245 --> 00:09:57,605 Speaker 1: in my marriage brought Cynthia into my life and made 158 00:09:57,605 --> 00:10:00,725 Speaker 1: her more of a partner. I learned how to do 159 00:10:00,805 --> 00:10:04,525 Speaker 1: that after I about ruined our marriage, and she said 160 00:10:04,525 --> 00:10:06,485 Speaker 1: to me one day we in New England and a 161 00:10:06,565 --> 00:10:10,965 Speaker 1: ministry and for as tough sledding, and she said, I 162 00:10:11,045 --> 00:10:15,245 Speaker 1: don't want you to tell people we're partners anymore. We 163 00:10:15,245 --> 00:10:18,925 Speaker 1: were doing the dishes together and I said, I almost 164 00:10:19,005 --> 00:10:25,125 Speaker 1: dropped the dish. I said, why, well, we're not. Yes 165 00:10:25,205 --> 00:10:32,245 Speaker 1: we are. No, No we're not. Yes we are. No 166 00:10:32,365 --> 00:10:37,365 Speaker 1: we're not, yes we are. And she stayed at it, 167 00:10:37,845 --> 00:10:41,965 Speaker 1: and finally, in tears that just burst out of her eyes, 168 00:10:42,605 --> 00:10:48,045 Speaker 1: she almost screamed, no, we're not. She put the dish 169 00:10:48,165 --> 00:10:52,325 Speaker 1: rag down and walked upstairs and went into our bedroom 170 00:10:52,325 --> 00:10:55,645 Speaker 1: and closed the door. And I thought, as I finished, 171 00:10:57,645 --> 00:11:05,085 Speaker 1: we're not because of me. Well, Greg, I went upstairs 172 00:11:06,645 --> 00:11:10,165 Speaker 1: and with tears, I laid down beside her and I said, 173 00:11:12,925 --> 00:11:19,245 Speaker 1: you're right. She couldn't even talk by then. I said, 174 00:11:19,285 --> 00:11:24,565 Speaker 1: I have I have not entered you into my world 175 00:11:24,605 --> 00:11:30,685 Speaker 1: as much as I could have. I know I've not 176 00:11:30,885 --> 00:11:37,605 Speaker 1: really presented you as I should have, because you're very 177 00:11:37,685 --> 00:11:41,525 Speaker 1: significant to me. She rolled her eyes and I said, 178 00:11:44,205 --> 00:11:50,365 Speaker 1: I'm going to change that. I spent the next five 179 00:11:50,485 --> 00:11:57,405 Speaker 1: to six years working on that. By the way. When 180 00:11:57,445 --> 00:12:01,325 Speaker 1: the opportunity to be on the air came up, I 181 00:12:01,365 --> 00:12:06,045 Speaker 1: couldn't lead it. And I said to her, honey cat, 182 00:12:06,925 --> 00:12:12,405 Speaker 1: if we take on this extra dimension of ministry, I'm 183 00:12:12,445 --> 00:12:16,005 Speaker 1: going to need help. And I said, I would love 184 00:12:16,085 --> 00:12:20,365 Speaker 1: to have you be the one that leads it. If 185 00:12:20,405 --> 00:12:24,445 Speaker 1: you think about it, pray, I'll pray with you. But 186 00:12:24,565 --> 00:12:28,485 Speaker 1: I have no one else better qualified than you to 187 00:12:28,605 --> 00:12:31,804 Speaker 1: do that. Well, she took it in forty four years. 188 00:12:32,125 --> 00:12:35,885 Speaker 1: She led insightful living. Yes, all of our great ideas 189 00:12:35,925 --> 00:12:39,645 Speaker 1: came from her. The whole way we're doing cruises and 190 00:12:39,725 --> 00:12:43,485 Speaker 1: tours and Israel trips and all the things we did 191 00:12:44,805 --> 00:12:48,725 Speaker 1: extra things. She was behind it. She came up with 192 00:12:48,845 --> 00:12:54,325 Speaker 1: fresh ideas. She put together the core values of our 193 00:12:54,485 --> 00:12:57,765 Speaker 1: ministry and how we would handle the staff, and how 194 00:12:57,805 --> 00:13:00,845 Speaker 1: we would handle our finances, how we would take care 195 00:13:00,885 --> 00:13:05,005 Speaker 1: of the East station, and you know what our procedure 196 00:13:05,005 --> 00:13:10,125 Speaker 1: would be. Time passed, and one day I'm in a 197 00:13:10,205 --> 00:13:12,365 Speaker 1: group over here, and she's not far away in the 198 00:13:12,405 --> 00:13:15,845 Speaker 1: group she's talking to and there's a little lull in 199 00:13:15,885 --> 00:13:18,725 Speaker 1: my group, and I hear her say, well, now that 200 00:13:19,125 --> 00:13:21,965 Speaker 1: chucking our partners, we do so and so we do 201 00:13:22,085 --> 00:13:24,485 Speaker 1: such and such and I hear the P word, the 202 00:13:24,645 --> 00:13:31,365 Speaker 1: PE word nice partner. In that afternoon, I'm in tears 203 00:13:31,485 --> 00:13:35,645 Speaker 1: at lunch and she says, what is wrong? I said, 204 00:13:36,205 --> 00:13:44,005 Speaker 1: nothing is wrong? Today you said it? What did I say? 205 00:13:44,765 --> 00:13:48,684 Speaker 1: You called us partners? And she goes, well we are? 206 00:13:50,085 --> 00:13:55,645 Speaker 1: I said, hit the replay button and go back about 207 00:13:55,685 --> 00:13:56,365 Speaker 1: seven years. 208 00:13:56,485 --> 00:14:00,005 Speaker 2: Wow, she did? 209 00:14:00,965 --> 00:14:05,285 Speaker 1: I said, remember should I do? She did? It's nothing 210 00:14:05,325 --> 00:14:08,765 Speaker 1: like that Now. I wish I would not have kept 211 00:14:08,805 --> 00:14:14,525 Speaker 1: her away. Yeah, Greig, there are so many people who 212 00:14:14,885 --> 00:14:17,565 Speaker 1: long to help us do what we do, and we 213 00:14:17,645 --> 00:14:23,925 Speaker 1: can be so independent. Yeah, I'd be less independent. I'd 214 00:14:23,925 --> 00:14:29,005 Speaker 1: be quicker to say I need or could you help? 215 00:14:29,965 --> 00:14:32,085 Speaker 1: Or would you be a part of this? Or would 216 00:14:32,125 --> 00:14:36,965 Speaker 1: you lead this? Would you take over that? Or I'm 217 00:14:37,005 --> 00:14:39,085 Speaker 1: convinced you'd be better at this than I would be. 218 00:14:39,125 --> 00:14:41,405 Speaker 1: You know, I would mean that and I would lay it. 219 00:14:41,805 --> 00:14:44,405 Speaker 1: And I think the ministry would have just been on 220 00:14:44,925 --> 00:14:49,365 Speaker 1: roller blades rather than sometime on skids trying to get 221 00:14:49,365 --> 00:14:53,845 Speaker 1: going because I was trying to do too much myself. 222 00:14:54,085 --> 00:14:58,845 Speaker 2: Yeah. You gave a message a couple of years ago 223 00:14:58,965 --> 00:15:03,085 Speaker 2: maybe where you talked about three things that a preacher faces. 224 00:15:03,925 --> 00:15:08,885 Speaker 2: One was loneliness, one was disappointment. Another was being the 225 00:15:08,925 --> 00:15:13,885 Speaker 2: target of attacks. Yeah, and then you've been talking about that, 226 00:15:15,685 --> 00:15:20,645 Speaker 2: realizing one's mistakes. You've talked about that quite candidly. Have 227 00:15:20,725 --> 00:15:24,445 Speaker 2: you felt in your ministry from the beginning to this 228 00:15:24,525 --> 00:15:27,045 Speaker 2: present day a loneliness? And do you feel less of that? 229 00:15:27,165 --> 00:15:30,325 Speaker 2: Maybe as you reach out and let people enter your horse. 230 00:15:30,405 --> 00:15:32,805 Speaker 1: I let people enter it. I don't have that loneliness 231 00:15:32,845 --> 00:15:35,805 Speaker 1: when I don't do that, I do feel that loneliness. 232 00:15:35,925 --> 00:15:40,245 Speaker 1: Very insightful observation on your part. I've now bowled it 233 00:15:40,285 --> 00:15:44,405 Speaker 1: down to four major temptations, okay, and they're easy to 234 00:15:44,445 --> 00:15:47,405 Speaker 1: remember because they all start with the same letter S. 235 00:15:48,125 --> 00:15:52,965 Speaker 1: They hiss like a snake. The first is sloth. You 236 00:15:53,005 --> 00:15:56,405 Speaker 1: can really get lazy in ministry. You'd get better at 237 00:15:56,445 --> 00:16:00,805 Speaker 1: your golf game than you are at you're preaching. You 238 00:16:00,965 --> 00:16:04,565 Speaker 1: get better at fishing. Then you are working with people 239 00:16:05,525 --> 00:16:08,165 Speaker 1: on and on, you get you can really you can 240 00:16:08,245 --> 00:16:16,205 Speaker 1: really get slawful guardian sloth. Second, silver boy. The money 241 00:16:16,245 --> 00:16:20,565 Speaker 1: can turn your head. They'll offer this, and now you 242 00:16:20,685 --> 00:16:22,925 Speaker 1: say no, and they'll offer more money if you'll do 243 00:16:23,005 --> 00:16:25,645 Speaker 1: it no, and you have more money, and then you 244 00:16:25,765 --> 00:16:30,805 Speaker 1: start reckoning with well, I could certainly use that a mountain. 245 00:16:31,605 --> 00:16:35,645 Speaker 1: Then you get tempted start thinking of things you do 246 00:16:35,725 --> 00:16:40,845 Speaker 1: for money. I've stopped taking money for funerals decades ago. 247 00:16:42,245 --> 00:16:46,125 Speaker 1: I don't take money to bury people they're in grief. 248 00:16:46,325 --> 00:16:50,445 Speaker 1: I've sent money back to people. My mentor, Bob Newkirk, 249 00:16:50,965 --> 00:16:52,965 Speaker 1: when I was in the Marine Corps, meant so much 250 00:16:53,005 --> 00:16:57,285 Speaker 1: to me. When he died, his sweet darling daughter named 251 00:16:57,285 --> 00:17:01,645 Speaker 1: Maria got a hold of me and Marie said, could 252 00:17:01,645 --> 00:17:04,045 Speaker 1: you do daddy's funeral? I said, oh, I'd love to 253 00:17:04,565 --> 00:17:07,965 Speaker 1: the eulogy. I said, I can't come to Colorado Springs, 254 00:17:08,004 --> 00:17:09,884 Speaker 1: but I'll do it and I'll send it to you 255 00:17:09,925 --> 00:17:12,604 Speaker 1: in video. She said, I can't tell you how what 256 00:17:12,725 --> 00:17:15,565 Speaker 1: you would mean. Well, she said three hundred dollars and 257 00:17:16,044 --> 00:17:20,965 Speaker 1: I wrote back, I tore it up, I said, Marie, 258 00:17:21,284 --> 00:17:26,004 Speaker 1: I could never take a penny after all he did 259 00:17:26,084 --> 00:17:31,924 Speaker 1: for me, and I've regularly done that to stay away 260 00:17:32,004 --> 00:17:35,644 Speaker 1: from the lure of doing it for the money. A 261 00:17:35,685 --> 00:17:42,044 Speaker 1: big wedding, maybe, a big gathering, maybe, Well, would you 262 00:17:42,084 --> 00:17:43,484 Speaker 1: do this for twenty thousand? 263 00:17:43,804 --> 00:17:44,205 Speaker 2: No? 264 00:17:44,205 --> 00:17:46,605 Speaker 1: No, I can't do it, and no amount of money 265 00:17:46,645 --> 00:17:50,004 Speaker 1: will turn my head. Watch out for silver. Third is 266 00:17:50,205 --> 00:17:57,165 Speaker 1: self guard against anything that promotes you, especially your own 267 00:17:57,244 --> 00:18:02,445 Speaker 1: tendency to build yourself up, to present yourself as better 268 00:18:02,925 --> 00:18:06,404 Speaker 1: than you are, or to remind people of great things, 269 00:18:06,484 --> 00:18:09,205 Speaker 1: or to drop names, or on and on. We can 270 00:18:09,365 --> 00:18:14,284 Speaker 1: we can do. Martin Luther was getting ready to deliver 271 00:18:14,365 --> 00:18:19,084 Speaker 1: the dian of Worms his message there, and he was, 272 00:18:19,244 --> 00:18:21,365 Speaker 1: you know, in front of all the prelates and all that, 273 00:18:22,165 --> 00:18:26,484 Speaker 1: all the big shots from the church. And one of 274 00:18:26,484 --> 00:18:30,165 Speaker 1: his friends, just before he walked onto the platform said 275 00:18:30,165 --> 00:18:34,685 Speaker 1: to him, old brother Martin, aren't you afraid, Martin said, 276 00:18:35,324 --> 00:18:39,845 Speaker 1: Luther said, more than the Pope and all his cardinals. 277 00:18:41,405 --> 00:18:51,364 Speaker 1: I fear most that great Pope self. Lilah, give the 278 00:18:51,405 --> 00:18:58,645 Speaker 1: other person the credit. Acknowledge your own staff. She wrote 279 00:18:58,685 --> 00:19:01,605 Speaker 1: the brochure. Tell him she wrote it. I didn't write this. 280 00:19:02,284 --> 00:19:05,725 Speaker 1: It's very well written. Of course, she's very gifted. You 281 00:19:05,764 --> 00:19:08,205 Speaker 1: can get credit for everything that comes out of the church, 282 00:19:08,804 --> 00:19:13,164 Speaker 1: and you've done very little in it. Pass along the credit. 283 00:19:14,044 --> 00:19:19,484 Speaker 1: And a fourth, of course, is sex. That pornography is 284 00:19:19,524 --> 00:19:25,244 Speaker 1: eating us up. Greg I don't know how many men 285 00:19:25,284 --> 00:19:30,524 Speaker 1: in ministry have finally confessed. It all started when I 286 00:19:30,564 --> 00:19:35,445 Speaker 1: pulled the shades and locked the door, turned on the computer, 287 00:19:35,645 --> 00:19:40,644 Speaker 1: and there it was. I've never viewed pornography, so I 288 00:19:40,645 --> 00:19:42,804 Speaker 1: don't know what it looks like, but it must be 289 00:19:43,685 --> 00:19:52,084 Speaker 1: very appealing, very satisfying, or something. And I say to people, look, 290 00:19:52,804 --> 00:19:59,445 Speaker 1: if you would just stop that today, It's never too 291 00:19:59,524 --> 00:20:02,404 Speaker 1: late to start doing what is right. One of my 292 00:20:02,484 --> 00:20:05,405 Speaker 1: favorite sayings. I came up with it several years ago. 293 00:20:06,405 --> 00:20:09,165 Speaker 1: It's never too late to start doing what is right. 294 00:20:09,604 --> 00:20:13,165 Speaker 1: Start now. Don't go into all the things you've not done, 295 00:20:13,445 --> 00:20:15,844 Speaker 1: to all the things you should have done. Start now. 296 00:20:16,764 --> 00:20:23,324 Speaker 1: Stop viewing anything that is even near pornography. Don't go 297 00:20:23,405 --> 00:20:26,124 Speaker 1: to the films, don't read the books, don't look at 298 00:20:26,165 --> 00:20:30,044 Speaker 1: the magazines, don't look at the things online. I have 299 00:20:30,205 --> 00:20:34,124 Speaker 1: never had dinner alone with a single woman or a 300 00:20:34,205 --> 00:20:38,284 Speaker 1: married woman unless my wife was there. I've never driven 301 00:20:38,284 --> 00:20:43,364 Speaker 1: in a car without my wife present, unless someone was 302 00:20:43,405 --> 00:20:46,004 Speaker 1: bringing me to work or taking me home from work. 303 00:20:46,564 --> 00:20:49,484 Speaker 1: I've never sat on the bed at the hospital where 304 00:20:49,524 --> 00:20:53,004 Speaker 1: a woman was there. I've never counseled a woman alone 305 00:20:53,044 --> 00:20:56,604 Speaker 1: without leaving the door open or heading an intern sitting 306 00:20:56,645 --> 00:21:03,685 Speaker 1: there with me. I do not give myself any leeway, 307 00:21:03,844 --> 00:21:07,725 Speaker 1: because I know that is your weakness in every man. 308 00:21:08,244 --> 00:21:13,445 Speaker 1: I was in a one more comment Navigator conference. Years ago, 309 00:21:14,044 --> 00:21:18,445 Speaker 1: Lord Sannie, the new President, was interviewing an older gentleman 310 00:21:18,604 --> 00:21:21,564 Speaker 1: fresh off the mission field. He must have been in 311 00:21:21,604 --> 00:21:25,484 Speaker 1: his eighties, and he sort of hobbled up to the 312 00:21:25,524 --> 00:21:28,044 Speaker 1: microphone and Lord put his arm around him. I didn't 313 00:21:28,084 --> 00:21:30,764 Speaker 1: know the man, but Lord knew him well, and he said, 314 00:21:31,925 --> 00:21:34,164 Speaker 1: after all the things we've talked about, I've got to 315 00:21:34,284 --> 00:21:40,564 Speaker 1: ask you this, when did you overcome the lure of 316 00:21:40,804 --> 00:21:49,124 Speaker 1: sexual temptation? I'll never forget his answer. Well, Lord, it 317 00:21:49,165 --> 00:21:54,524 Speaker 1: hasn't happened yet. Here's his eighty five year old guy, 318 00:21:55,604 --> 00:22:00,725 Speaker 1: still fighting the same old battles. Greg, we will fight 319 00:22:00,764 --> 00:22:06,645 Speaker 1: it till we're dead, and we must. I don't care. 320 00:22:06,685 --> 00:22:09,365 Speaker 1: How would you get great, You're never going to get 321 00:22:09,405 --> 00:22:14,445 Speaker 1: past sexual temptation. Yea, of the four, that's the strongest. 322 00:22:14,564 --> 00:22:14,764 Speaker 2: Yeah. 323 00:22:15,645 --> 00:22:20,044 Speaker 1: Most men don't usually fall because of a sloth or 324 00:22:20,244 --> 00:22:25,885 Speaker 1: silver or self, but this one. Yeah, you've seen it, Yes, 325 00:22:25,965 --> 00:22:31,804 Speaker 1: I have, And it's an allurement that is always there. 326 00:22:32,524 --> 00:22:36,804 Speaker 2: Yeah. If you were to give one less sermon, what 327 00:22:36,885 --> 00:22:39,164 Speaker 2: would your text be and what would your topic be? 328 00:22:40,484 --> 00:22:47,524 Speaker 1: Oh? My has never been asked this. I believe I 329 00:22:47,564 --> 00:22:55,365 Speaker 1: would speak on the grace of God. Yes, I want 330 00:22:55,365 --> 00:22:58,364 Speaker 1: to be known as a man of grace. Yeah, I 331 00:22:58,445 --> 00:23:03,085 Speaker 1: really do. It would revolve around Christ. It has two 332 00:23:03,125 --> 00:23:07,044 Speaker 1: because that's where grace originates. It would take us to 333 00:23:07,125 --> 00:23:13,564 Speaker 1: the cross. It would probably be from Romans. Maybe either 334 00:23:13,685 --> 00:23:15,885 Speaker 1: chapter five or chapter eight would. 335 00:23:15,725 --> 00:23:19,084 Speaker 2: Be the text, maybe both, for you know. 336 00:23:19,004 --> 00:23:21,764 Speaker 1: The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, though he was rich, 337 00:23:21,804 --> 00:23:24,205 Speaker 1: and for our sake he became poor that we through 338 00:23:24,244 --> 00:23:27,804 Speaker 1: his poverty, might be rich. That's Corinthians. But that kind 339 00:23:27,844 --> 00:23:31,564 Speaker 1: of message, and I would talk about you can know 340 00:23:31,685 --> 00:23:37,445 Speaker 1: this grace personally and you don't have to clean up anything, 341 00:23:37,804 --> 00:23:40,324 Speaker 1: you don't have to correct anything, you don't have to 342 00:23:40,405 --> 00:23:43,645 Speaker 1: dress up in any way, you don't have to change anything. 343 00:23:44,165 --> 00:23:46,965 Speaker 1: All you've got to do is come to Christ. Let 344 00:23:47,084 --> 00:23:54,684 Speaker 1: Jesus become your channel to God. Let him become your 345 00:23:55,004 --> 00:24:00,244 Speaker 1: own personal lord and savior. Men, and he will bring 346 00:24:00,284 --> 00:24:03,684 Speaker 1: in the grace like you've never had it before. And 347 00:24:03,725 --> 00:24:07,645 Speaker 1: he will take the take the irksomeness out of your life. 348 00:24:08,004 --> 00:24:11,445 Speaker 1: He will take the impatience out, and little by little 349 00:24:11,804 --> 00:24:16,164 Speaker 1: you'll you'll see changes come that you don't deserve, blessings 350 00:24:16,244 --> 00:24:20,044 Speaker 1: come that you don't earn. It's all grace. And I 351 00:24:20,284 --> 00:24:25,125 Speaker 1: camp on grace, I drive it home. I'm not even 352 00:24:25,165 --> 00:24:28,565 Speaker 1: doing a cross stack on g r a ce. You've 353 00:24:28,564 --> 00:24:31,165 Speaker 1: never done that before, but that comes to mind. 354 00:24:31,205 --> 00:24:34,205 Speaker 2: I love that. Okay, here's questions you've probably never been asked. 355 00:24:34,324 --> 00:24:37,085 Speaker 2: Lightning round, meaning just give me quick answers. 356 00:24:37,165 --> 00:24:38,244 Speaker 1: Okay, go easy on me. 357 00:24:38,324 --> 00:24:41,925 Speaker 2: Okay, these are not I'm not like explain the sovereignty 358 00:24:41,965 --> 00:24:44,205 Speaker 2: of God. I was going to ask you what's your 359 00:24:44,244 --> 00:24:45,685 Speaker 2: favorite go to food? 360 00:24:46,484 --> 00:24:48,844 Speaker 1: I would I would get a bowl of homemade chili. 361 00:24:49,044 --> 00:24:52,685 Speaker 1: Oh nice, I would send this chili's the best ever, 362 00:24:53,084 --> 00:24:56,484 Speaker 1: And I would I would unfreeze that we keep it frozen. 363 00:24:56,885 --> 00:25:00,564 Speaker 1: I would freezing. I would eat that. That that's delicious. 364 00:25:00,564 --> 00:25:04,125 Speaker 1: Some pritos and homemade chili, glass of iced tea. 365 00:25:04,284 --> 00:25:07,404 Speaker 2: Have you ever been in and Out? Oh yeah, you 366 00:25:07,524 --> 00:25:07,845 Speaker 2: like it? 367 00:25:07,925 --> 00:25:08,885 Speaker 1: Oh yeah? 368 00:25:09,004 --> 00:25:11,365 Speaker 2: How do you order your burger? It? In and out? Burger? 369 00:25:11,844 --> 00:25:17,085 Speaker 1: I order usually a double double, I admit, with everything 370 00:25:17,165 --> 00:25:21,925 Speaker 1: on it. Sometime I even order it. My kids have 371 00:25:22,044 --> 00:25:22,844 Speaker 1: taught me this. 372 00:25:23,524 --> 00:25:27,164 Speaker 2: Animals animal stuff. That's really good, isn't it? 373 00:25:27,084 --> 00:25:30,125 Speaker 1: It is good. It's all over your wrist, all over 374 00:25:30,165 --> 00:25:33,565 Speaker 1: your hands. Yeah, it's delicious. Yes, I love them. 375 00:25:33,804 --> 00:25:36,284 Speaker 2: You what is your favorite movie like I here's how 376 00:25:36,324 --> 00:25:39,164 Speaker 2: I define my favorite movie. If I'm flipping channels on 377 00:25:39,244 --> 00:25:42,244 Speaker 2: television and I see a movie maybe I've seen many 378 00:25:42,324 --> 00:25:44,565 Speaker 2: times that. If I stay and keep watching it till 379 00:25:44,564 --> 00:25:46,645 Speaker 2: the commercial, that's a favorite movie. 380 00:25:47,524 --> 00:25:48,845 Speaker 1: Just we have a lot of them. 381 00:25:49,044 --> 00:25:49,605 Speaker 2: I do too. 382 00:25:49,885 --> 00:25:53,924 Speaker 1: Oh, my latest is Lincoln. Oh. I could see Lincoln 383 00:25:56,205 --> 00:25:58,645 Speaker 1: every other week for five weeks in a row. 384 00:25:58,925 --> 00:26:01,165 Speaker 2: You told me in a row, you told an amazing 385 00:26:01,205 --> 00:26:05,365 Speaker 2: story about Lincoln about they had the art the contents 386 00:26:05,564 --> 00:26:08,764 Speaker 2: of what was in his pockets and he had I 387 00:26:08,804 --> 00:26:12,764 Speaker 2: think a pocket watch and a handkerchief. I do love 388 00:26:12,804 --> 00:26:16,564 Speaker 2: that initial. Yeah. And then there was there was a 389 00:26:16,604 --> 00:26:19,364 Speaker 2: little newspaper clipping what was that about. 390 00:26:20,004 --> 00:26:23,765 Speaker 1: How great Abraham Lincoln was? Yeah, and it was yelled 391 00:26:23,804 --> 00:26:30,165 Speaker 1: with age. And it tells me that even Lincoln, in quiet, 392 00:26:30,365 --> 00:26:34,205 Speaker 1: lonely moments would turn to that box and read at 393 00:26:34,284 --> 00:26:36,924 Speaker 1: least someone believed in him. 394 00:26:37,445 --> 00:26:38,445 Speaker 2: Yeah. 395 00:26:38,685 --> 00:26:43,604 Speaker 1: He was horribly criticized. He was He was called an ape, 396 00:26:43,965 --> 00:26:49,524 Speaker 1: a bad boon, an idiot. I mean, these sophisticated Northeasterners 397 00:26:49,965 --> 00:26:54,524 Speaker 1: took him on with both fists. He plowed right on. 398 00:26:56,885 --> 00:27:00,045 Speaker 1: I would love to have a dinner with Abraham Lincoln. 399 00:27:00,365 --> 00:27:02,644 Speaker 2: Well, that's a good question. Let's expand that if you 400 00:27:02,645 --> 00:27:05,764 Speaker 2: were going to have dinner with me Abraham Lincoln, else 401 00:27:05,764 --> 00:27:07,085 Speaker 2: would you like to infight. 402 00:27:07,405 --> 00:27:10,484 Speaker 1: H if I could understand him? Winston Churchill would be 403 00:27:10,524 --> 00:27:23,124 Speaker 1: another one. I think I would enjoy time with Ronald Reagan. 404 00:27:23,445 --> 00:27:33,484 Speaker 1: I would enjoy that, And maybe one more would be Spurgeon. Yes, 405 00:27:33,844 --> 00:27:38,885 Speaker 1: I would enjoy asking Spurgeon, how did you do it? 406 00:27:39,004 --> 00:27:44,844 Speaker 1: So prolific was Spurgeon that when he died, they began 407 00:27:44,885 --> 00:27:49,925 Speaker 1: to publish a sermon a week. Yeah, they did this 408 00:27:50,524 --> 00:27:55,445 Speaker 1: every week. Never took a break for twenty five years, 409 00:27:56,405 --> 00:28:00,004 Speaker 1: and they ran out of money, but they never ran 410 00:28:00,044 --> 00:28:00,885 Speaker 1: out of sermons? 411 00:28:01,725 --> 00:28:03,484 Speaker 2: Is that the Metropolitan Tabernite? 412 00:28:03,885 --> 00:28:07,925 Speaker 1: But ye, he was so prolific. After all of those 413 00:28:07,965 --> 00:28:11,364 Speaker 1: sermons were published, there were many more they could they 414 00:28:11,365 --> 00:28:12,484 Speaker 1: didn't never mind to do it. 415 00:28:12,645 --> 00:28:15,044 Speaker 2: In my office, I have a bust of Spurgeon, a 416 00:28:15,125 --> 00:28:18,524 Speaker 2: bust of Churchill, and also a bust of Deal Moody, 417 00:28:18,564 --> 00:28:20,244 Speaker 2: another one of my favorite preview. 418 00:28:20,084 --> 00:28:21,445 Speaker 1: Moody would be interesting too. 419 00:28:21,604 --> 00:28:24,684 Speaker 2: Okay, so Lincoln's one of your favorite movies, he is 420 00:28:24,844 --> 00:28:25,725 Speaker 2: any other movies? 421 00:28:27,084 --> 00:28:27,364 Speaker 1: Sure? 422 00:28:29,284 --> 00:28:32,405 Speaker 2: I like Ben Herb with Charlton Heston. Yes, that was wonderful, 423 00:28:32,484 --> 00:28:35,205 Speaker 2: but I also like Tombstone. You ever seen Tombstone? 424 00:28:35,244 --> 00:28:39,965 Speaker 1: I did. Yeah. I'm not a big movie buff, but 425 00:28:40,205 --> 00:28:43,404 Speaker 1: I will go a couple of times a year, you know, 426 00:28:43,445 --> 00:28:46,965 Speaker 1: if something is out that's really really good. Kids, tell 427 00:28:47,005 --> 00:28:52,164 Speaker 1: me how much, how great it was. I love military movies. Yeah, 428 00:28:52,325 --> 00:28:54,964 Speaker 1: I enjoy Saving Private Ryan Day. 429 00:28:55,045 --> 00:28:56,525 Speaker 2: Yeah, I loved it. That was great. 430 00:28:56,925 --> 00:29:01,005 Speaker 1: Yeah, that first scene a Private Ryan is as close 431 00:29:01,045 --> 00:29:02,725 Speaker 1: to real combat as you'll ever see. 432 00:29:02,765 --> 00:29:05,684 Speaker 2: I've heard that. I loved how it ended where it 433 00:29:05,765 --> 00:29:08,885 Speaker 2: has the men starts and ends with the man at 434 00:29:08,885 --> 00:29:11,684 Speaker 2: a cemetery and he's going to visit the grave of 435 00:29:11,805 --> 00:29:16,045 Speaker 2: the officer who died saving him, and he asks his 436 00:29:16,485 --> 00:29:21,005 Speaker 2: grandchildren I believe, uh, you know, something to the effect 437 00:29:21,045 --> 00:29:24,405 Speaker 2: of did I live a meaningful life? You know? And 438 00:29:24,445 --> 00:29:27,725 Speaker 2: I thought that was an interesting way to enter that story. 439 00:29:27,805 --> 00:29:33,525 Speaker 1: Yes, another one is one on on the Holocaust. 440 00:29:33,805 --> 00:29:40,124 Speaker 2: Oh yes, Sindler powerful, I could have saved one. Yeah, 441 00:29:40,365 --> 00:29:43,485 Speaker 2: I wept it. Why do you think there's a rise 442 00:29:43,525 --> 00:29:44,845 Speaker 2: of anti Semitism? 443 00:29:44,965 --> 00:29:52,125 Speaker 1: Right, that's that's the most wicked return of racism I've 444 00:29:52,165 --> 00:29:52,645 Speaker 1: ever seen. 445 00:29:52,765 --> 00:29:54,685 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's stronger than Native. 446 00:29:54,485 --> 00:29:59,285 Speaker 1: Jews have had it against them all alone. Yeah. They 447 00:29:59,325 --> 00:30:02,765 Speaker 1: get shot for no reason at all. Yeah, they're synagogues 448 00:30:02,805 --> 00:30:09,565 Speaker 1: and get get attack and and uh messed up more 449 00:30:09,604 --> 00:30:12,285 Speaker 1: than anything any other churches do. 450 00:30:13,005 --> 00:30:17,685 Speaker 2: And it's stronger today than maybe since the World War Two. 451 00:30:17,805 --> 00:30:18,965 Speaker 2: It seems like it's made. 452 00:30:18,844 --> 00:30:20,605 Speaker 1: To come back. They say, it's not let up. 453 00:30:21,445 --> 00:30:23,684 Speaker 2: Do I know you love music? I know that you 454 00:30:23,885 --> 00:30:27,604 Speaker 2: used to sing and the boys kind of not a choir? 455 00:30:27,645 --> 00:30:28,765 Speaker 2: What it be a boys choir? 456 00:30:29,245 --> 00:30:31,124 Speaker 1: We had a boy's quartet, boy's quartet? 457 00:30:31,245 --> 00:30:34,405 Speaker 2: Yeah, sing it so like what is like when you're 458 00:30:34,485 --> 00:30:37,644 Speaker 2: just driving around and you're gonna sing a song? What 459 00:30:37,805 --> 00:30:38,765 Speaker 2: songs do you sing? 460 00:30:39,325 --> 00:30:42,604 Speaker 1: They will often be songs on grace, they will They 461 00:30:42,645 --> 00:30:46,405 Speaker 1: will be usually uh, the words of him. 462 00:30:46,925 --> 00:30:47,805 Speaker 2: Yeah. 463 00:30:48,084 --> 00:30:50,925 Speaker 1: I love memorizing the words, and I quote them to 464 00:30:51,005 --> 00:30:57,444 Speaker 1: Cynthia in the evening. Here's one you've never heard. Majestic 465 00:30:57,525 --> 00:31:02,525 Speaker 1: sweetness sits enthroned upon the Savior's brow, his head with 466 00:31:02,765 --> 00:31:08,884 Speaker 1: radiant Glory's crowned his lips with grace or flow, his 467 00:31:09,005 --> 00:31:12,084 Speaker 1: lips with grace or flow. He saw me plused in 468 00:31:12,165 --> 00:31:16,805 Speaker 1: deep distress, and flew to my relief for me. He 469 00:31:16,925 --> 00:31:22,885 Speaker 1: bore the shameful cross and carried all my grief, and 470 00:31:22,965 --> 00:31:26,405 Speaker 1: carried all my grief to him, all my life and 471 00:31:26,525 --> 00:31:29,485 Speaker 1: breath and all the joys I have. He makes me 472 00:31:29,805 --> 00:31:33,604 Speaker 1: triumph over death, and will save me from the grave, 473 00:31:35,205 --> 00:31:39,205 Speaker 1: and will save me from the grief, since from his 474 00:31:39,325 --> 00:31:43,565 Speaker 1: bounty I received such proofs of love divine. Had I 475 00:31:43,604 --> 00:31:50,725 Speaker 1: have thousand hearts to give, Lord, they would all be thine, 476 00:31:51,445 --> 00:31:53,005 Speaker 1: they would all be thine. 477 00:31:54,604 --> 00:31:57,205 Speaker 2: That sung sum severe life, I think in many ways, 478 00:31:57,245 --> 00:31:57,765 Speaker 2: doesn't it. 479 00:31:58,445 --> 00:32:05,165 Speaker 1: Yeah. I will sing hymns, and I will sing amazing grace. Yeah, 480 00:32:05,565 --> 00:32:08,924 Speaker 1: I will sing over a thousand tongues. Yes, I will sing, 481 00:32:09,285 --> 00:32:13,805 Speaker 1: and can it be? I will sing? Shall we gather 482 00:32:13,925 --> 00:32:18,205 Speaker 1: at the river where bright angel's feet have trod, with 483 00:32:18,325 --> 00:32:23,045 Speaker 1: its crystal tide forever flowing from the throne of God. Yes, Yes, 484 00:32:23,125 --> 00:32:26,285 Speaker 1: we'll gather at the river, the beautiful, beautiful river. We'll 485 00:32:26,285 --> 00:32:30,245 Speaker 1: together with the saints at the river that flows from 486 00:32:30,285 --> 00:32:34,285 Speaker 1: the throne of God. According it. At Paul Salhammer's funeral, 487 00:32:35,685 --> 00:32:38,565 Speaker 1: I missed Paul to this day. I loved Paul. 488 00:32:39,725 --> 00:32:42,845 Speaker 2: When you were a young preacher. You work with Race 489 00:32:42,965 --> 00:32:46,645 Speaker 2: deadmonde of my favorite authors. And there was another young 490 00:32:46,725 --> 00:32:49,725 Speaker 2: man that was a part of that group, Luis Palaus. 491 00:32:49,805 --> 00:32:53,245 Speaker 1: Yes he was right. Went to South America and came 492 00:32:53,365 --> 00:32:56,645 Speaker 1: back and said to the give Martin and me. He said, hey, 493 00:32:57,005 --> 00:32:59,604 Speaker 1: I've invited another guy to join us. We were his 494 00:32:59,685 --> 00:33:03,844 Speaker 1: first two interns, and we said great. He said he 495 00:33:03,925 --> 00:33:08,925 Speaker 1: is English, is not perfected yet, but I think he's 496 00:33:08,965 --> 00:33:14,325 Speaker 1: really got a evangelism gift. What's his name, Uh, Louise, 497 00:33:14,844 --> 00:33:21,245 Speaker 1: not Lewis Louise Palau, his little twin babies. His wife's 498 00:33:21,325 --> 00:33:24,485 Speaker 1: name is Patricia. Two days later they walked in the 499 00:33:24,525 --> 00:33:27,084 Speaker 1: door and we met Louise and he was an interre 500 00:33:27,165 --> 00:33:29,245 Speaker 1: with us. Wow with Race Edmond. 501 00:33:29,285 --> 00:33:32,685 Speaker 2: Race Deedman was a really gifted communicator to love. 502 00:33:32,805 --> 00:33:34,725 Speaker 1: Race Edmand one of my mentors. 503 00:33:34,805 --> 00:33:38,165 Speaker 2: Yes, and Dwight Pentecost, you I served him for four 504 00:33:38,205 --> 00:33:40,805 Speaker 2: and a half years. I love everything he's written. 505 00:33:40,965 --> 00:33:44,405 Speaker 1: Boy, you're you got depth. You really have depth if 506 00:33:44,405 --> 00:33:49,805 Speaker 1: you really enjoy him. Dwight Pentecost, Stan Tussay, Bruce Walke, 507 00:33:50,525 --> 00:33:55,205 Speaker 1: Howard Hendricks. I'm telling you, I said at the feet 508 00:33:55,245 --> 00:34:00,884 Speaker 1: of giants and uh and Greg. This is not not 509 00:34:01,005 --> 00:34:05,325 Speaker 1: an exaggeration. I sat right in the center in the front, 510 00:34:05,485 --> 00:34:08,365 Speaker 1: even though I was accepted on probation because I didn't 511 00:34:08,365 --> 00:34:10,484 Speaker 1: have all the degrees that I needed to get in, 512 00:34:11,285 --> 00:34:13,565 Speaker 1: and for two years they kept me on probation, and 513 00:34:13,645 --> 00:34:16,245 Speaker 1: they let me go when they saw my grades. But anyway, 514 00:34:16,885 --> 00:34:18,525 Speaker 1: I don't have to sit in the back if I'm 515 00:34:18,525 --> 00:34:21,365 Speaker 1: on probation. But I didn't, I could sit anywhere, So 516 00:34:21,405 --> 00:34:24,165 Speaker 1: I sit in the front in the center. When the 517 00:34:24,245 --> 00:34:28,205 Speaker 1: classes were over, I often couldn't move. 518 00:34:28,805 --> 00:34:29,125 Speaker 2: Wow. 519 00:34:31,005 --> 00:34:41,805 Speaker 1: I would just sit there and weep. Thank you? How 520 00:34:41,845 --> 00:34:44,485 Speaker 1: did I ever get in this school? How did I 521 00:34:44,645 --> 00:34:48,445 Speaker 1: ever get a seat, a chair of my own and 522 00:34:48,565 --> 00:34:50,205 Speaker 1: a desk in this school? 523 00:34:51,245 --> 00:34:52,765 Speaker 2: Yeah? 524 00:34:52,885 --> 00:34:58,365 Speaker 1: How could I possibly be allowed to study here? And 525 00:34:59,325 --> 00:35:05,444 Speaker 1: when I graduated? I just cried my eyes out. First 526 00:35:05,605 --> 00:35:08,205 Speaker 1: thing my parents came through that I'd been a part of. Wow, 527 00:35:08,885 --> 00:35:12,205 Speaker 1: my graduation seminary. They didn't stay for the dinner, but 528 00:35:12,245 --> 00:35:16,404 Speaker 1: they came for the graduation. I said to Cynthia, look 529 00:35:16,405 --> 00:35:19,765 Speaker 1: who's here. I don't know what to make of it. 530 00:35:20,805 --> 00:35:24,364 Speaker 1: They had never been anything I'd done. Wow, I wish 531 00:35:24,445 --> 00:35:26,565 Speaker 1: you could have been with me. I wish you would 532 00:35:26,565 --> 00:35:27,965 Speaker 1: have been sitting right there by me. 533 00:35:28,405 --> 00:35:30,765 Speaker 2: Yes, well, I can read their books. 534 00:35:31,125 --> 00:35:36,285 Speaker 1: I'm telling you you yo, that's right. Yeah. And when 535 00:35:36,325 --> 00:35:43,565 Speaker 1: you see Bruce Walke Cradle, the Old Kittle Old Testament, 536 00:35:44,365 --> 00:35:48,725 Speaker 1: Hebrew Bible and read from it, whether it's Hebrew or English. 537 00:35:48,725 --> 00:35:51,765 Speaker 1: He could read like you like you're reading a novel. 538 00:35:52,445 --> 00:35:55,165 Speaker 1: He would read it through and look up to be 539 00:35:55,285 --> 00:35:58,245 Speaker 1: tears coming out of his arm. He went to Harvard 540 00:35:58,685 --> 00:36:04,685 Speaker 1: got his second PhD. They offered him a teaching position 541 00:36:05,485 --> 00:36:09,765 Speaker 1: before he graduated, and he said, no, thank you. There's 542 00:36:09,805 --> 00:36:13,605 Speaker 1: a little school in Dallas that I'm committed to. And 543 00:36:13,645 --> 00:36:16,404 Speaker 1: they said, no, you haven't heard the offer. He said, 544 00:36:16,405 --> 00:36:19,285 Speaker 1: I don't need to hear the offer. And he went 545 00:36:19,365 --> 00:36:23,285 Speaker 1: back to Dallas just three years I had. 546 00:36:23,525 --> 00:36:25,205 Speaker 2: Are you in there at just the right moment? 547 00:36:25,365 --> 00:36:28,645 Speaker 1: Oh man, he was wonderful. That's great. You would have 548 00:36:28,885 --> 00:36:29,765 Speaker 1: loved him. 549 00:36:30,005 --> 00:36:31,805 Speaker 2: I've never even heard of him. 550 00:36:31,845 --> 00:36:35,285 Speaker 1: I need w A L T K E. 551 00:36:35,925 --> 00:36:36,645 Speaker 2: Did he write? 552 00:36:36,925 --> 00:36:39,085 Speaker 1: Is he's written the sum It's okay? 553 00:36:39,245 --> 00:36:43,605 Speaker 2: Yep. Are the recordings of his message? There may be okay. 554 00:36:43,805 --> 00:36:50,565 Speaker 1: Soft, easy boys, almost feminine. He's just when he would preach, 555 00:36:50,645 --> 00:36:56,565 Speaker 1: I would like melt hadd Robinson remember though, And Howie 556 00:36:56,565 --> 00:37:01,605 Speaker 1: Hendrick said, Don Campbell and so one after another in 557 00:37:01,605 --> 00:37:04,845 Speaker 1: that chapel, I'm just like draking it in and the 558 00:37:04,925 --> 00:37:11,485 Speaker 1: guest pre Jay Vernon McGee and Steedman of doctor McGee, 559 00:37:12,205 --> 00:37:16,165 Speaker 1: Doctor Mitchell. I could go on and on about that. Greg, 560 00:37:16,205 --> 00:37:20,844 Speaker 1: excuse me for saying more than you asked me to say. 561 00:37:20,925 --> 00:37:26,445 Speaker 1: But no, I will never get over dollars seminary and 562 00:37:26,525 --> 00:37:27,885 Speaker 1: the impact in my life. 563 00:37:28,005 --> 00:37:32,725 Speaker 2: Yeah. Ever, yeah, well in my way, you know, getting 564 00:37:32,805 --> 00:37:37,325 Speaker 2: to know you, Billy Graham, doctor Dobson. 565 00:37:36,885 --> 00:37:40,205 Speaker 1: Well you're well read. You're well read. That's a secret. 566 00:37:40,525 --> 00:37:44,205 Speaker 2: Well, it helps, it helps, and it helps you. I 567 00:37:44,205 --> 00:37:46,925 Speaker 2: feel like I've been sitting at the feet of a 568 00:37:46,965 --> 00:37:50,245 Speaker 2: giant listening to you. It adds depth to your to 569 00:37:50,325 --> 00:37:55,165 Speaker 2: your pulpeit. My concern, Chuck is a young generation of preachers. 570 00:37:56,725 --> 00:38:00,485 Speaker 2: I'm wondering, where's the next generation of Chuck swyn Dolls 571 00:38:00,565 --> 00:38:04,325 Speaker 2: and David Jeremiah's and and people that love the Word 572 00:38:04,325 --> 00:38:06,245 Speaker 2: of God and love to open the Word of God. 573 00:38:06,685 --> 00:38:08,045 Speaker 2: I just hear a lot of preaching. 574 00:38:08,285 --> 00:38:11,565 Speaker 1: I'm going to believe that they're hidden away and they 575 00:38:11,565 --> 00:38:16,845 Speaker 1: will emerge. Where was I nineteen? You know, forty five 576 00:38:18,325 --> 00:38:21,165 Speaker 1: you never heard of me, and fifty five you never 577 00:38:21,285 --> 00:38:25,245 Speaker 1: We got married in fifty five and we'll celebrate seventy 578 00:38:25,245 --> 00:38:26,285 Speaker 1: one years next month. 579 00:38:26,365 --> 00:38:27,245 Speaker 2: Congratulations. 580 00:38:27,205 --> 00:38:39,165 Speaker 1: Now pray for Cynthia. Yes, she suffers with dementia, and 581 00:38:40,525 --> 00:38:50,485 Speaker 1: it's slowly, slowly, I'm watching that beautiful mind fade. I 582 00:38:50,525 --> 00:38:55,605 Speaker 1: hold her in my arms every day, I caress her, 583 00:38:56,325 --> 00:38:58,685 Speaker 1: I tell her what she means to me. We have 584 00:38:58,805 --> 00:39:05,565 Speaker 1: such a marvelous romantic marriage and fun and travel and 585 00:39:06,565 --> 00:39:08,884 Speaker 1: so many of the things that she came up with 586 00:39:08,965 --> 00:39:15,885 Speaker 1: and they worked out beautifully, and we were able often 587 00:39:15,925 --> 00:39:18,645 Speaker 1: to take one or more of our kids and when 588 00:39:18,645 --> 00:39:23,085 Speaker 1: they were married and they came along and it was 589 00:39:24,045 --> 00:39:24,645 Speaker 1: so great. 590 00:39:25,285 --> 00:39:25,725 Speaker 2: Yeah. 591 00:39:25,765 --> 00:39:34,165 Speaker 1: So my advice to you, love Kathy, Yes, tell her 592 00:39:34,365 --> 00:39:42,565 Speaker 1: often how much set aside time for romance sports a 593 00:39:42,645 --> 00:39:46,525 Speaker 1: weekend or two or a few weeks of the year, 594 00:39:47,005 --> 00:39:51,844 Speaker 1: and do something really expensive, and really tell her it's 595 00:39:51,925 --> 00:39:56,125 Speaker 1: for you. This is for you. I can never ever 596 00:39:56,285 --> 00:39:59,525 Speaker 1: repay you. So this is for us to enjoy together 597 00:40:01,645 --> 00:40:06,485 Speaker 1: because she may not always be exactly as she is today, 598 00:40:06,565 --> 00:40:09,525 Speaker 1: and you will never forget those times. I'm so glad, 599 00:40:09,565 --> 00:40:13,485 Speaker 1: Saint and I did that. Wow, Greg, it is an 600 00:40:13,525 --> 00:40:18,805 Speaker 1: absolute pleasure to know you and to see you, though 601 00:40:18,845 --> 00:40:23,045 Speaker 1: you are young and have grown through the years, to 602 00:40:23,125 --> 00:40:29,085 Speaker 1: see you stay so committed, so in love with Jesus 603 00:40:29,245 --> 00:40:36,685 Speaker 1: and still reading, still probing the theology, still preaching faithfully 604 00:40:36,725 --> 00:40:43,845 Speaker 1: and delivering on a regular basis the truth of God's word. 605 00:40:44,445 --> 00:40:49,245 Speaker 1: Don't ever stop until you have to. That's when I stopped. 606 00:40:50,245 --> 00:40:54,565 Speaker 1: I was ninety. I'd finished the five messages out of 607 00:40:55,005 --> 00:40:59,485 Speaker 1: two Timothy, which I had to memorize. You memorize them loosely, 608 00:40:59,565 --> 00:41:02,005 Speaker 1: you know, you don't memorize the word line by line. 609 00:41:02,045 --> 00:41:05,844 Speaker 1: But I wanted to take second Timothy because it's Paul's fine. 610 00:41:06,565 --> 00:41:10,405 Speaker 1: Swan Solgan. Yes, And I stepped down from the pulpit 611 00:41:10,525 --> 00:41:14,605 Speaker 1: at age ninety and left the church after twenty six years. 612 00:41:14,605 --> 00:41:15,885 Speaker 1: You've been at your church. 613 00:41:16,485 --> 00:41:22,765 Speaker 2: Fifty two years. Good for you, well, thank you, Thank 614 00:41:22,805 --> 00:41:24,405 Speaker 2: you for taking the time. 615 00:41:24,285 --> 00:41:27,045 Speaker 1: And the same to you, Greg my pleasure, of course, 616 00:41:27,205 --> 00:41:31,884 Speaker 1: I really mean that. Let me pray, Dear Father, thank 617 00:41:31,925 --> 00:41:36,404 Speaker 1: you for your grace that found us when we were 618 00:41:36,445 --> 00:41:44,125 Speaker 1: not looking, and saved us when we were unworthy, and 619 00:41:44,245 --> 00:41:49,844 Speaker 1: changed us when we were so stubborn, and softened us 620 00:41:49,885 --> 00:41:54,165 Speaker 1: when we were so hard. Thank you for giving us 621 00:41:54,205 --> 00:42:00,285 Speaker 1: such magnificent wives to help shape our lives and to 622 00:42:00,325 --> 00:42:07,485 Speaker 1: give us someone to love, to learn from, to care about, 623 00:42:07,645 --> 00:42:12,805 Speaker 1: and to care for. Thank You for our families, for 624 00:42:13,005 --> 00:42:15,885 Speaker 1: Great's sons, and for the one who left and the 625 00:42:15,885 --> 00:42:20,885 Speaker 1: one who's still with him. Bless them abundantly as he 626 00:42:20,965 --> 00:42:27,005 Speaker 1: and Kathy continue to live for you. Lift your name 627 00:42:27,125 --> 00:42:31,085 Speaker 1: up through his words as he speaks them, whether from 628 00:42:31,125 --> 00:42:36,205 Speaker 1: a pulpit or quietly with a friend, or in gatherings 629 00:42:36,205 --> 00:42:41,245 Speaker 1: where he's asked to speak. May he lie low and 630 00:42:41,805 --> 00:42:47,405 Speaker 1: let Christ be exalted and use him mightily in ways 631 00:42:47,445 --> 00:42:53,125 Speaker 1: he couldn't even imagine right now, and bless millions through him. 632 00:42:53,205 --> 00:42:57,645 Speaker 1: I pray thank you for these fleeting moments we've had together. 633 00:42:58,965 --> 00:43:02,765 Speaker 1: They mean so much to us. They make us love 634 00:43:02,805 --> 00:43:07,605 Speaker 1: you more, Lord, because love one another more as well. 635 00:43:10,845 --> 00:43:14,364 Speaker 1: In the name of Christ, who loved us and gave 636 00:43:14,485 --> 00:43:19,605 Speaker 1: himself for us. We pray Amen. 637 00:43:19,765 --> 00:43:20,165 Speaker 2: Amen. 638 00:43:21,005 --> 00:43:24,365 Speaker 1: Well, it's lotted to be with you, Greg, and you 639 00:43:24,485 --> 00:43:26,844 Speaker 1: mean the world to me and to my family. Thank 640 00:43:26,885 --> 00:43:30,325 Speaker 1: you for all you do and all you represent. May 641 00:43:30,445 --> 00:43:32,205 Speaker 1: Christ be glorified in it all. 642 00:43:33,085 --> 00:43:34,805 Speaker 2: Amen. Well, thanks so much for being here. 643 00:43:34,885 --> 00:43:35,885 Speaker 1: Chuck, You're welcome.