1 00:00:05,220 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: When you are crushed and brokenhearted, where do you go 2 00:00:08,820 --> 00:00:12,290 Speaker 1: to find hope? Jesus said that in this life, we 3 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,730 Speaker 1: will have pain, heartbreak, and trials. So how do we 4 00:00:15,770 --> 00:00:18,270 Speaker 1: deal with our pain? What does it look like to 5 00:00:18,370 --> 00:00:21,380 Speaker 1: walk with God in our grief? Our guest today has 6 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:24,980 Speaker 1: experienced her share of pain, including a traumatic brain injury, 7 00:00:25,180 --> 00:00:28,610 Speaker 1: as well as cancer diagnoses for two of her daughters. 8 00:00:28,950 --> 00:00:33,269 Speaker 1: In her suffering, Linda boldly asked God tough questions like, 9 00:00:33,350 --> 00:00:34,449 Speaker 1: how do I keep going? 10 00:00:34,690 --> 00:00:35,910 Speaker 2: And God, where are you? 11 00:00:36,190 --> 00:00:38,659 Speaker 1: And how do I keep trusting? Today, we're going to 12 00:00:38,670 --> 00:00:41,860 Speaker 1: be talking about finding hope when your heart is shattered, 13 00:00:42,220 --> 00:00:45,699 Speaker 1: trusting God through pain and loss. Welcome back to your 14 00:00:45,740 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: hope-filled perspective, where it's always our goal to restore hope, 15 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:53,810 Speaker 1: renew minds, and empower listeners to live in your God-given identity. 16 00:00:54,030 --> 00:00:57,050 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Dr. Michelle Bankson, and I'm delighted when 17 00:00:57,090 --> 00:00:59,050 Speaker 1: you choose to spend a few minutes of your week 18 00:00:59,090 --> 00:01:02,910 Speaker 1: with us. Today, we're going to be talking about finding 19 00:01:02,940 --> 00:01:06,680 Speaker 1: hope when your heart is shattered. To start off this episode, 20 00:01:06,700 --> 00:01:09,220 Speaker 1: I just want to remind you of the scripture that 21 00:01:09,260 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 1: comes out of Lamentations 3. It's verses 21 through 24. Yet, 22 00:01:13,940 --> 00:01:16,780 Speaker 1: I still dare to hope when I remember this. The 23 00:01:16,970 --> 00:01:22,069 Speaker 1: faithful love of the Lord never ends. His mercies never cease. 24 00:01:22,450 --> 00:01:27,110 Speaker 1: Great is thy faithfulness. His mercies begin afresh each morning. 25 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:31,209 Speaker 1: I say to myself, the Lord is my inheritance. Therefore, 26 00:01:31,490 --> 00:01:33,610 Speaker 1: I will hope in him. We're going to talk about 27 00:01:33,709 --> 00:01:36,789 Speaker 1: finding hope when your heart is shattered right after this 28 00:01:36,830 --> 00:01:42,459 Speaker 1: break for a word from our sponsors. Welcome back to 29 00:01:42,500 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: your hope-filled perspective, where today we're talking about finding hope. 30 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: when your heart is shattered. And joining me for this 31 00:01:49,340 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: heartfelt conversation is Linda Dillo, who is a best-selling author 32 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,660 Speaker 1: and a respected Bible teacher and conference speaker. You may 33 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,559 Speaker 1: know her from her book, Calm My Anxious Heart, but 34 00:01:59,620 --> 00:02:02,980 Speaker 1: she has a new book, Hope for My Hurting Heart. 35 00:02:03,140 --> 00:02:06,570 Speaker 1: Linda is the mother of four children. including one now 36 00:02:06,610 --> 00:02:09,810 Speaker 1: with Jesus, and she's the grandmother of 10. She and 37 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,780 Speaker 1: her husband, Jody, make their home in Monument, Colorado. Welcome 38 00:02:13,820 --> 00:02:14,820 Speaker 1: to the program, Linda. 39 00:02:15,300 --> 00:02:16,460 Speaker 2: It's a privilege to be here. 40 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: Linda, frequently as authors, our books come out of our 41 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:25,390 Speaker 1: own hurts and pain and trials. How is that true 42 00:02:25,410 --> 00:02:25,770 Speaker 1: for you? 43 00:02:25,970 --> 00:02:29,470 Speaker 2: We don't raise our hand, do we, Michelle, and say, okay, God, 44 00:02:29,630 --> 00:02:34,180 Speaker 2: I'm volunteering for both my daughters to have cancer. Absolutely not. 45 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 2: And yet that's what got allowed in my life during COVID. 46 00:02:39,180 --> 00:02:41,660 Speaker 2: And I had one daughter with cancer on the East 47 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,740 Speaker 2: Coast and another daughter with cancer on the West Coast. 48 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,579 Speaker 2: And I was in Colorado in the middle. And if 49 00:02:48,460 --> 00:02:52,260 Speaker 2: you remember, and I'm sure the listeners remember, everyone was 50 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:56,820 Speaker 2: wearing masks and we were told not to fly. The 51 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:01,540 Speaker 2: world was shut down. And I had two daughters on 52 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:05,610 Speaker 2: the the opposite ends of the United States with cancer, 53 00:03:05,810 --> 00:03:11,609 Speaker 2: with life-threatening cancer. You think when people have... liver cancer, 54 00:03:11,790 --> 00:03:15,510 Speaker 2: that they must weigh 300 pounds and not eat well. 55 00:03:15,870 --> 00:03:19,470 Speaker 2: And my daughter, Joy, made her own almond milk at night. 56 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:24,340 Speaker 2: I mean, she was the most health-conscious person that I 57 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 2: had ever known. Both my daughters were. They ate only 58 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 2: organic food. They were so health-conscious. And yet both of 59 00:03:31,580 --> 00:03:36,630 Speaker 2: them had cancer. And I was shocked. here in Colorado, 60 00:03:36,870 --> 00:03:41,150 Speaker 2: on my face before the Lord, worshiping with the song 61 00:03:41,250 --> 00:03:47,030 Speaker 2: New Wine, asking God to plow new ground and saying, Lord, 62 00:03:47,230 --> 00:03:51,910 Speaker 2: I don't understand why, but Lord, Use this for your 63 00:03:51,950 --> 00:03:55,550 Speaker 2: glory in some way. But God, these are my daughters. 64 00:03:55,950 --> 00:03:59,060 Speaker 2: And my heart was broken. And I think some of 65 00:03:59,130 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 2: us have this picture that as we get older, maybe 66 00:04:01,900 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 2: our life's going to get easier. We wish. We wish. 67 00:04:06,020 --> 00:04:09,580 Speaker 2: And I haven't found that to be true. So we 68 00:04:09,820 --> 00:04:14,350 Speaker 2: ask him, where is hope? And how can I live 69 00:04:14,410 --> 00:04:18,310 Speaker 2: in hope when it seems like I'm going down a 70 00:04:18,620 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 2: hope slide from doubt and despair and discouragement down into depression? 71 00:04:25,060 --> 00:04:27,900 Speaker 2: And I don't want to do that. And as things 72 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 2: got worse and worse with my daughters, it seemed that 73 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 2: I was slipping down into depression. And I grabbed my Bible. 74 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 2: And I said, all right, Lord, I have gone to 75 00:04:42,540 --> 00:04:47,230 Speaker 2: you before when things were bad. And I turned to 76 00:04:47,290 --> 00:04:51,710 Speaker 2: Lamentations and read what you read when you started this. 77 00:04:51,930 --> 00:04:56,650 Speaker 2: And he said, after he grumbled, after he grumbled a lot, 78 00:04:56,950 --> 00:04:59,610 Speaker 2: but he said, I'm going to dare to hope anyway. 79 00:04:59,630 --> 00:05:04,409 Speaker 2: I am going to dare to hope. And then really, 80 00:05:05,230 --> 00:05:08,380 Speaker 2: Some of the most beautiful things that we read in 81 00:05:08,420 --> 00:05:13,940 Speaker 2: the scriptures are there in Lamentations 3. I bathed myself 82 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,500 Speaker 2: in Lamentations 3, and I went to a passage that 83 00:05:17,860 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 2: I love. And that's when Paul, the Apostle Paul in 84 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:27,380 Speaker 2: 2 Corinthians 4, was discouraged. And he had been through 85 00:05:27,500 --> 00:05:30,940 Speaker 2: so many trials, and yet he said, I will not 86 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,460 Speaker 2: give up. I will not give up. I will not 87 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 2: give up. And I said, God, I can't give up. 88 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,380 Speaker 2: I have to keep trusting you. And at the end 89 00:05:41,420 --> 00:05:45,219 Speaker 2: of 2 Corinthians 4, he said, we can't give up 90 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:50,290 Speaker 2: because we live not by seeing. We live by believing 91 00:05:50,589 --> 00:05:55,450 Speaker 2: because our eyes are on our great God. And so 92 00:05:55,510 --> 00:05:58,029 Speaker 2: I grabbed my Bible and I got on my knees 93 00:05:58,210 --> 00:06:01,180 Speaker 2: and I said, Holy Spirit, I'm going to be here 94 00:06:01,300 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 2: before my Abba Father comes. and Jesus my Savior, and you, 95 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,940 Speaker 2: blessed Spirit, and I'm going to listen, and I'm going 96 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 2: to wait, and I'm going to weep, because when you're 97 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:16,020 Speaker 2: in pain, and I think sometimes as Christians, Michelle, I've 98 00:06:16,060 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 2: had so many Christians say to me, well, I thought 99 00:06:18,870 --> 00:06:22,470 Speaker 2: since I was reading my Bible, and I'm following the Lord, 100 00:06:22,510 --> 00:06:25,450 Speaker 2: that it's not going to hurt. Well, I'm sorry, pain hurts, 101 00:06:25,910 --> 00:06:29,450 Speaker 2: and when your daughters, who you love, who you gave 102 00:06:29,529 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 2: birth to, who you've loved for all these years, are 103 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:37,299 Speaker 2: near death, it hurts. It just, your heart is broken 104 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,529 Speaker 2: in two, and you are begging God for their lives, 105 00:06:40,870 --> 00:06:44,450 Speaker 2: and you are lifting them up to God and telling 106 00:06:44,490 --> 00:06:47,170 Speaker 2: them that they belong to him, but you're also begging 107 00:06:47,210 --> 00:06:51,740 Speaker 2: them to spare them. and let them live and to 108 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 2: heal them. And you're surrendering your life and their lives. 109 00:06:56,460 --> 00:06:59,860 Speaker 2: And I'm saying, God, look at me. I've never had cancer. 110 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 2: I would like to have cancer. Would you give it 111 00:07:02,540 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 2: to me, please? You're bartering with God. You're begging God. 112 00:07:06,740 --> 00:07:10,940 Speaker 2: You're saying, please give me the pain. But God, I surrender. 113 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:15,050 Speaker 2: And Michelle, what God had me do when I was 114 00:07:15,130 --> 00:07:20,150 Speaker 2: sliding down that hope slide into depression, He said, okay, Linda, 115 00:07:20,510 --> 00:07:24,930 Speaker 2: you need to have a declaration of hope. And I'd 116 00:07:25,650 --> 00:07:27,910 Speaker 2: like to share my declaration of hope with you. 117 00:07:28,190 --> 00:07:28,590 Speaker 1: Would you? 118 00:07:28,980 --> 00:07:35,260 Speaker 2: I would. And it basically, I said, there were three things. God, 119 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 2: use my pain that you would be glorified. And I 120 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:44,660 Speaker 2: had scripture with that. And God said, Would you comfort 121 00:07:44,700 --> 00:07:48,110 Speaker 2: other people? Would you comfort me? And would you use 122 00:07:48,270 --> 00:07:54,150 Speaker 2: me to comfort other people? From 1 Corinthians 1. And God, 123 00:07:54,510 --> 00:07:56,650 Speaker 2: I just trust you that you're going to use this 124 00:07:56,730 --> 00:08:00,420 Speaker 2: in some way. God, would you be glorified? But don't 125 00:08:00,450 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 2: waste my pain, God. Don't waste it. And would you 126 00:08:04,580 --> 00:08:08,270 Speaker 2: comfort me? Our prayers. I just, it was like, I just, 127 00:08:08,450 --> 00:08:11,230 Speaker 2: I put a stake in the ground and I wrote 128 00:08:11,450 --> 00:08:15,430 Speaker 2: three things down and I said, this is my declaration 129 00:08:15,470 --> 00:08:15,890 Speaker 2: of hope. 130 00:08:16,910 --> 00:08:20,570 Speaker 1: That declaration of hope is so powerful. I went through 131 00:08:20,590 --> 00:08:24,510 Speaker 1: a very painful, difficult time about a decade ago, Linda, 132 00:08:24,650 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: and that was my prayer as well. Lord, I don't 133 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:29,700 Speaker 1: want to go through this, but if I have to 134 00:08:29,740 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: go through it, make it count for something. 135 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:32,540 Speaker 2: Yes. 136 00:08:32,820 --> 00:08:37,830 Speaker 1: Use it. And it doesn't take the pain away, does it, Linda? 137 00:08:38,070 --> 00:08:41,849 Speaker 1: But it shows us the good and redemptive nature of 138 00:08:41,950 --> 00:08:42,410 Speaker 1: our God. 139 00:08:42,610 --> 00:08:42,850 Speaker 2: Yes. 140 00:08:43,350 --> 00:08:46,530 Speaker 1: That he would bring beauty for ashes, that he would 141 00:08:46,670 --> 00:08:51,150 Speaker 1: encourage others through your book and my books. Linda, you 142 00:08:51,210 --> 00:08:55,150 Speaker 1: learned that hope does not come from a change in 143 00:08:55,190 --> 00:08:59,430 Speaker 1: your circumstances, but from a change in your thinking. Will 144 00:08:59,590 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: you share what you learned through that? 145 00:09:01,130 --> 00:09:06,349 Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Instead of concentrating on what was going on around 146 00:09:06,429 --> 00:09:09,349 Speaker 2: me and the things going on around me, every day 147 00:09:09,410 --> 00:09:12,829 Speaker 2: there was something negative. It had to be that I 148 00:09:12,890 --> 00:09:14,850 Speaker 2: was not going to give up, that I was going 149 00:09:14,870 --> 00:09:18,010 Speaker 2: to keep my eyes on God. That's what Paul said. 150 00:09:18,030 --> 00:09:21,270 Speaker 2: I had to look up. I had to look at him. 151 00:09:21,690 --> 00:09:24,670 Speaker 2: And I had to say, I won't give up. I 152 00:09:24,690 --> 00:09:27,910 Speaker 2: have a right above my head. computer is a sign 153 00:09:27,950 --> 00:09:32,569 Speaker 2: that says, I will always have hope from Psalm 71, 14. 154 00:09:32,570 --> 00:09:35,570 Speaker 2: And I will, you are my hope, God. My hope 155 00:09:35,610 --> 00:09:38,770 Speaker 2: will be in you. It can't be in my circumstances. 156 00:09:39,130 --> 00:09:42,870 Speaker 2: And so that was what I pledged to him every 157 00:09:42,910 --> 00:09:46,929 Speaker 2: morning on my knees. If I was standing up, there 158 00:09:46,970 --> 00:09:49,310 Speaker 2: wasn't any hope. But if I got on my knees 159 00:09:49,429 --> 00:09:52,490 Speaker 2: and opened my hands and surrendered to him, I got 160 00:09:52,530 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 2: my perspective right because my eyes were lifted up to him. 161 00:09:56,420 --> 00:09:58,430 Speaker 2: And I said, I will always have hope. 162 00:09:59,350 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: What a beauty. perspective and a reminder that we can't 163 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,719 Speaker 1: find hope in this world and we can't rely on ourselves. 164 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:08,940 Speaker 1: But when we're on our knees and looking to our 165 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: Heavenly Father, that's when the hope returns. 166 00:10:11,620 --> 00:10:11,940 Speaker 2: Yeah. 167 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:13,910 Speaker 1: Friends, we're going to take a quick break for a 168 00:10:13,929 --> 00:10:16,650 Speaker 1: word from our sponsors, but stick with us because when 169 00:10:16,690 --> 00:10:19,390 Speaker 1: we come back, Linda's going to share more about finding 170 00:10:19,510 --> 00:10:22,290 Speaker 1: hope when your heart is shattered and how to trust 171 00:10:22,350 --> 00:10:24,089 Speaker 1: God through pain and loss. 172 00:10:24,510 --> 00:10:25,090 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. 173 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: Welcome back to your Hope-Filled Perspective, where my guest today 174 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,839 Speaker 1: is Linda Dillo, and we are talking about finding hope 175 00:10:33,940 --> 00:10:36,970 Speaker 1: when your heart is shattered and learning how to trust 176 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,570 Speaker 1: God through pain and loss. Linda, you say in your 177 00:10:40,590 --> 00:10:43,890 Speaker 1: book that you're convinced that the greatest way to pour 178 00:10:44,070 --> 00:10:48,230 Speaker 1: hope into your hurting heart is to sink deep into 179 00:10:48,270 --> 00:10:51,630 Speaker 1: the love of God. But you also say that God 180 00:10:51,670 --> 00:10:54,910 Speaker 1: doesn't want us to start with doing. And for a 181 00:10:55,170 --> 00:11:00,130 Speaker 1: recovering type A driven perfectionist, for a long time, that 182 00:11:00,150 --> 00:11:02,580 Speaker 1: was my go-to. So what do you mean by that? 183 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:03,050 Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 184 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 2: I think that we live in a very pragmatic society 185 00:11:07,740 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 2: and that we feel like we've had a good day 186 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,670 Speaker 2: if we can check things off our list. And if 187 00:11:14,970 --> 00:11:17,890 Speaker 2: I go off for two days to be alone with 188 00:11:17,929 --> 00:11:20,450 Speaker 2: the Lord, what am I going to check off my list? 189 00:11:21,190 --> 00:11:23,350 Speaker 2: What am I going to check? I think God is 190 00:11:23,390 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 2: very pleased. Jesus is pleased. The Spirit of God is pleased. 191 00:11:27,780 --> 00:11:32,730 Speaker 2: But what have I checked? And It's important to do 192 00:11:32,830 --> 00:11:35,690 Speaker 2: things because as women, we have lots of things to do, 193 00:11:35,750 --> 00:11:39,850 Speaker 2: but I really think we've got it backwards because being 194 00:11:40,030 --> 00:11:45,820 Speaker 2: on our knees and being still before God and developing 195 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:51,020 Speaker 2: an awareness of his presence and knowing his voice and knowing... 196 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:56,970 Speaker 2: Knowing the peace of God that passes all understanding. I 197 00:11:57,020 --> 00:12:00,330 Speaker 2: walked around the house when I found out that my 198 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,750 Speaker 2: second daughter had cancer. And I just kept saying, God, 199 00:12:03,950 --> 00:12:07,270 Speaker 2: thank you that I know your word. Thank you that 200 00:12:07,350 --> 00:12:10,490 Speaker 2: I know your presence. Thank you that I know your voice. 201 00:12:10,890 --> 00:12:13,850 Speaker 2: And thank you that your presence wraps around me like 202 00:12:13,910 --> 00:12:17,089 Speaker 2: a warm blanket. And that when I fall to my knees, 203 00:12:17,370 --> 00:12:20,450 Speaker 2: I know I'm enveloped in you. And that you taught 204 00:12:20,510 --> 00:12:24,820 Speaker 2: me how to nestle down into your presence. Because being 205 00:12:24,940 --> 00:12:28,730 Speaker 2: with you, my beloved, is the most important thing in 206 00:12:28,770 --> 00:12:31,589 Speaker 2: my life. And if I didn't have you right now, 207 00:12:31,610 --> 00:12:35,350 Speaker 2: I would fall apart. Because you hold me. And I 208 00:12:35,410 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 2: have your peace. Because Jesus, you said, I am your peace. 209 00:12:40,540 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 2: And I have to know that right now. Peace can't 210 00:12:43,820 --> 00:12:47,340 Speaker 2: be in our circumstances, Michelle. It has to be in 211 00:12:47,420 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 2: him and us. It can't be in what the doctors 212 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:55,500 Speaker 2: say because one of my daughter's reports got worse and worse. 213 00:12:55,620 --> 00:12:58,730 Speaker 2: And like you said, she's in heaven. She didn't answer 214 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:03,230 Speaker 2: the prayers that she be healed. She died at age 215 00:13:03,230 --> 00:13:06,830 Speaker 2: 52 and is in heaven. Do we miss her terribly? 216 00:13:07,309 --> 00:13:09,790 Speaker 2: Does her daughter wish that she could be there for 217 00:13:09,830 --> 00:13:14,250 Speaker 2: her wedding? Of course. I'm wrapping up China to send 218 00:13:14,290 --> 00:13:17,050 Speaker 2: to her and save for her wedding. Do we all 219 00:13:17,110 --> 00:13:21,219 Speaker 2: wish she could be there? Of course we miss, but 220 00:13:22,100 --> 00:13:26,020 Speaker 2: we miss our precious joy. There is peace in knowing 221 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 2: that she's with Jesus and that we will see her. 222 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,329 Speaker 2: But that does not mean that we don't miss her. 223 00:13:36,090 --> 00:13:41,510 Speaker 2: My daughter, Robin, who still has repercussions from her cancer 224 00:13:41,630 --> 00:13:45,750 Speaker 2: and from the chemo, that she had horrible reactions to 225 00:13:45,830 --> 00:13:49,309 Speaker 2: that sent her to Sloan Kettering Hospital. Did you know 226 00:13:49,330 --> 00:13:53,620 Speaker 2: that chemo can almost be as bad as the cancer? 227 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 2: And it was for her. Our family is still suffering 228 00:13:57,260 --> 00:14:00,860 Speaker 2: for her from some of the repercussions that she is facing. 229 00:14:01,220 --> 00:14:05,010 Speaker 2: But God is good. And through all of this, our 230 00:14:05,050 --> 00:14:08,660 Speaker 2: family has come closer together. So we thank him for that. 231 00:14:08,860 --> 00:14:11,479 Speaker 2: But does that mean it's been easy? No, it's been 232 00:14:11,500 --> 00:14:14,380 Speaker 2: very difficult. And I, like I said, I did not 233 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:17,699 Speaker 2: raise my hand and volunteer. And I would never volunteer 234 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 2: for it. But the Lord, he is so wonderful. And 235 00:14:22,780 --> 00:14:25,140 Speaker 2: intimacy with him is what life is all about. 236 00:14:25,500 --> 00:14:29,350 Speaker 1: Linda, because you've been through grief and loss, will you 237 00:14:29,380 --> 00:14:32,890 Speaker 1: share what you learned about the steps that you suggest 238 00:14:32,990 --> 00:14:34,210 Speaker 1: in dealing with any loss? 239 00:14:34,890 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 2: I think that we in America, have stopped understanding what 240 00:14:40,570 --> 00:14:43,830 Speaker 2: it means to lament. And we think that worship is 241 00:14:44,050 --> 00:14:49,250 Speaker 2: only happy, clappy, wonderful, let's praise God. And that's part 242 00:14:49,290 --> 00:14:53,150 Speaker 2: of worship. But worship is also lament. And it's weeping 243 00:14:53,190 --> 00:14:57,250 Speaker 2: before God. And it's getting on our knees. And it's 244 00:14:57,820 --> 00:15:02,980 Speaker 2: being honest about our pain. And it's saying, God, I hurt. 245 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:07,390 Speaker 2: And it's I don't understand. And will you help me? 246 00:15:08,190 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 2: This is what David did. He cried out to God 247 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 2: and he was so honest and God met him and God, 248 00:15:15,220 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 2: he said, God, help me, help me. And I think 249 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:23,730 Speaker 2: that we shove too many things down and you ask some, oh, 250 00:15:23,790 --> 00:15:27,030 Speaker 2: I'm fine. I'm just fine. That's how Christians in America 251 00:15:27,050 --> 00:15:29,190 Speaker 2: are supposed to be. I'm supposed to be fine. Well, 252 00:15:29,310 --> 00:15:35,290 Speaker 2: they're not fine. And We need to let God bring 253 00:15:35,370 --> 00:15:40,010 Speaker 2: the pain out so it doesn't fester down inside us. 254 00:15:40,030 --> 00:15:44,390 Speaker 2: And we need to let God heal it. We need 255 00:15:44,470 --> 00:15:49,540 Speaker 2: to let God heal it. And I wept and wept 256 00:15:49,860 --> 00:15:54,060 Speaker 2: and wept before the Lord. And he comforted me just 257 00:15:54,100 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 2: like he comforted David and he comforted others in the scripture. 258 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:01,660 Speaker 2: I read two books on lament. I asked God, I 259 00:16:01,700 --> 00:16:03,860 Speaker 2: just went and said, God, I don't know how to lament. 260 00:16:04,180 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 2: Would you teach me how to lament? And he did. 261 00:16:07,570 --> 00:16:09,810 Speaker 2: He taught me how to lament and how to be 262 00:16:09,930 --> 00:16:13,470 Speaker 2: honest before him with my grief. And now I'm teaching 263 00:16:13,570 --> 00:16:16,530 Speaker 2: other women how to do that. I feel like I 264 00:16:16,570 --> 00:16:20,229 Speaker 2: did some study about the Protestant Reformation, and I feel 265 00:16:20,270 --> 00:16:23,850 Speaker 2: like it goes back to that. So many good things 266 00:16:23,950 --> 00:16:27,140 Speaker 2: happened then, but one of them was that there was 267 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 2: a stoic attitude that we push feelings down, and we 268 00:16:33,620 --> 00:16:38,190 Speaker 2: don't allow God to come into our hearts and our 269 00:16:38,270 --> 00:16:42,650 Speaker 2: souls and our feelings and heal us from the inside out. 270 00:16:43,110 --> 00:16:46,810 Speaker 1: We're often very ready for a quick fix. We don't 271 00:16:46,870 --> 00:16:49,630 Speaker 1: want to feel the pain. We want to move beyond 272 00:16:49,710 --> 00:16:54,020 Speaker 1: it quickly, but it's hard work to let God come 273 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,140 Speaker 1: in and heal what hurts us. 274 00:16:56,500 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 2: It's much easier just to say, I'm fine. But then 275 00:16:59,580 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 2: five years later, you're not fine. And you're on anxiety 276 00:17:03,900 --> 00:17:08,899 Speaker 2: medicine and you're on sleep medicine and you're, it, it, it, 277 00:17:09,290 --> 00:17:14,570 Speaker 2: affects you physically, emotionally, and spiritually. And it's hard to 278 00:17:14,590 --> 00:17:17,889 Speaker 2: get over grief and pain. Whether the grief is the 279 00:17:17,950 --> 00:17:21,449 Speaker 2: death of someone you love, whether it's a divorce, whether 280 00:17:21,590 --> 00:17:24,970 Speaker 2: it's being fired from your job, there are all different 281 00:17:25,050 --> 00:17:29,070 Speaker 2: kinds of grief and pain. And everyone has some kind 282 00:17:29,450 --> 00:17:34,190 Speaker 2: of heartbreak and pain. And lament is a kind of worship. 283 00:17:34,530 --> 00:17:37,649 Speaker 2: It's worship in the minor key. We need to learn 284 00:17:37,710 --> 00:17:41,990 Speaker 2: to worship in the joyful key and in the full key, 285 00:17:42,030 --> 00:17:44,690 Speaker 2: but we also need to worship in the minor key. 286 00:17:45,170 --> 00:17:47,389 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're so right. In my book, The Hem of 287 00:17:47,450 --> 00:17:50,590 Speaker 1: His Garment, Reaching Out to God When Pain Overwhelms, we 288 00:17:50,609 --> 00:17:53,490 Speaker 1: spent a whole chapter talking about lament. 289 00:17:54,050 --> 00:17:55,230 Speaker 2: I'm going to get your book. 290 00:17:57,150 --> 00:18:00,470 Speaker 1: We're just not taught what that looks like. And it 291 00:18:00,590 --> 00:18:03,890 Speaker 1: sounds like a heady word, but let's face it, pain 292 00:18:04,450 --> 00:18:08,430 Speaker 1: is a heady experience. friends we're going to take a 293 00:18:08,770 --> 00:18:10,969 Speaker 1: real quick break for a word from our sponsor but 294 00:18:11,010 --> 00:18:12,889 Speaker 1: i want you to come back as we finish the 295 00:18:12,950 --> 00:18:17,020 Speaker 1: conversation with linda about trusting god through pain and loss 296 00:18:17,300 --> 00:18:17,959 Speaker 1: we'll be right. 297 00:18:17,820 --> 00:18:25,859 Speaker 3: Back everyone experiences pain at times it can manifest physically 298 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:32,389 Speaker 3: emotionally relationally or spiritually it can follow tragic accidents great 299 00:18:32,450 --> 00:18:39,010 Speaker 3: loss sudden betrayal, or unexpected and unwanted change. Often, pain 300 00:18:39,070 --> 00:18:41,950 Speaker 3: is temporary, but what do you do when it isn't? 301 00:18:42,270 --> 00:18:46,270 Speaker 3: When pain won't go away, healing does not come, and 302 00:18:46,369 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 3: grief and hurt settle in to stay. Drawing on her 303 00:18:50,420 --> 00:18:54,380 Speaker 3: experience of chronic pain in her years as a board-certified 304 00:18:54,500 --> 00:19:00,859 Speaker 3: clinical neuropsychologist, Dr. Michelle Bankson provides a countercultural perspective on pain, 305 00:19:01,300 --> 00:19:06,230 Speaker 3: offering hope without any false promises or or empty platitudes, Dr. 306 00:19:06,270 --> 00:19:11,030 Speaker 3: Bankson unwraps the complex emotional aspects of dealing with pain. 307 00:19:11,450 --> 00:19:15,409 Speaker 3: She gives you permission to question God, helps you identify 308 00:19:15,450 --> 00:19:18,940 Speaker 3: the lies you've believed about your pain, and reorients your 309 00:19:18,980 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 3: perspective based on the truth of God's word. Each chapter 310 00:19:23,460 --> 00:19:28,180 Speaker 3: ends with a recommended playlist, reflection questions, and a prayer. 311 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 3: Your pain may not change, but your experience with it can. Dr. 312 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:40,270 Speaker 3: Sandra Dalton-Smith, physician, best-selling author, and a host of the 313 00:19:40,590 --> 00:19:44,409 Speaker 3: I Choose My Best Life podcast, had this to say 314 00:19:44,530 --> 00:19:46,210 Speaker 3: about the hem of his garment. 315 00:19:46,690 --> 00:19:46,930 Speaker 2: Dr. 316 00:19:46,970 --> 00:19:50,730 Speaker 3: Michelle Bankson is honest and transparent. and she gives the 317 00:19:50,770 --> 00:19:54,590 Speaker 3: reader permission to ask hard questions and practical guidance on 318 00:19:54,650 --> 00:19:57,250 Speaker 3: how to seek God during times when you feel the 319 00:19:57,290 --> 00:20:01,669 Speaker 3: most wounded, a beautiful gift for every person living with pain. 320 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:06,530 Speaker 3: Holly Gerth, best-selling author of What Your Mind Needs for 321 00:20:06,650 --> 00:20:11,360 Speaker 3: Anxious Moments, says, Pain is inevitable, but enduring it alone 322 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 3: is optional. 323 00:20:12,580 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 4: Dr. 324 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,820 Speaker 3: Michelle Bankston is a voice of hope who will speak 325 00:20:15,859 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 3: into your struggles, a helping hand who will point you 326 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 3: to Jesus, and a wise guide who will lead you 327 00:20:22,820 --> 00:20:26,899 Speaker 3: through what you're facing so you can embrace more of 328 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,379 Speaker 3: what our good God has for you. Pick up a 329 00:20:30,420 --> 00:20:33,980 Speaker 3: copy of The Hem of His Garment for you and 330 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 3: a friend wherever books are sold. 331 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:46,450 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Your Hope-Filled Perspective. Let's talk about Habakkuk 2.4. 332 00:20:46,450 --> 00:20:53,369 Speaker 1: The just shall live by faith. And you talk about 333 00:20:53,710 --> 00:20:58,109 Speaker 1: that Habakkuk is a book that teaches us to trust God. 334 00:20:58,410 --> 00:20:58,870 Speaker 1: How so? 335 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 2: Well, Habakkuk asked God a question because he didn't understand 336 00:21:04,619 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 2: at all what God was doing. And God answered him, 337 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:14,370 Speaker 2: but God's answer was more confusing than he had been 338 00:21:14,410 --> 00:21:18,429 Speaker 2: in the beginning. In other words, sometimes God is just confusing. 339 00:21:19,030 --> 00:21:24,590 Speaker 2: And so Habakkuk had to make a decision. Am I 340 00:21:24,630 --> 00:21:27,899 Speaker 2: going to trust God even though I don't understand him? 341 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 2: And even though he doesn't make sense to me, because 342 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:37,160 Speaker 2: Habakkuk had just said, would you please do something? Look 343 00:21:37,540 --> 00:21:42,120 Speaker 2: at what's happening in my country. People are going berserk. They're... 344 00:21:42,530 --> 00:21:47,970 Speaker 2: They're doing horrible things. Would you intervene and bring some order? 345 00:21:48,230 --> 00:21:51,410 Speaker 2: There's violence in the country. And God said, well, I'll 346 00:21:51,450 --> 00:21:54,570 Speaker 2: send the Babylonians to take over your country. Well, the 347 00:21:54,630 --> 00:21:58,730 Speaker 2: Babylonians were these fierce, impetuous people. It would be as 348 00:21:58,830 --> 00:22:01,750 Speaker 2: if we got on our knees and said, God, look 349 00:22:01,770 --> 00:22:05,770 Speaker 2: at our country. They're shooting in the schools. There's abortion. 350 00:22:06,150 --> 00:22:10,630 Speaker 2: There is fentanyl coming into the country. God, do something. 351 00:22:10,910 --> 00:22:15,250 Speaker 2: And God said, well? I'm going to send the Russians 352 00:22:15,490 --> 00:22:18,889 Speaker 2: and the Chinese and the North Koreans and Iran. I'm 353 00:22:18,910 --> 00:22:22,310 Speaker 2: going to send everybody to take over your country. And 354 00:22:22,350 --> 00:22:25,530 Speaker 2: we'd say, well, wait a minute, God, we're not that bad. 355 00:22:25,730 --> 00:22:29,210 Speaker 2: They're worse than we are. And that's what Habakkuk said. 356 00:22:29,290 --> 00:22:32,570 Speaker 2: He said, God, we're bad, but the Babylonians are worse 357 00:22:32,630 --> 00:22:35,950 Speaker 2: than we are. That doesn't make any sense, God. I 358 00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:41,620 Speaker 2: was praying, honestly, and you just make no sense. But 359 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,369 Speaker 2: instead of just saying, forget it, God, which most people 360 00:22:45,430 --> 00:22:48,149 Speaker 2: would do, he said, I'm going to go up on 361 00:22:48,190 --> 00:22:51,610 Speaker 2: the wall of the city and I am just going 362 00:22:51,630 --> 00:22:54,610 Speaker 2: to wait there, God, on you to see what you're 363 00:22:54,630 --> 00:22:57,629 Speaker 2: going to say to me. What a beautiful thing, Michelle, 364 00:22:57,690 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 2: to say, God, I don't understand, but I'm going to 365 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,740 Speaker 2: wait on you. Yeah. I'm going to wait on you. 366 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,930 Speaker 2: And we don't know how long he waited. But I'm 367 00:23:07,950 --> 00:23:10,890 Speaker 2: going to assume, since I usually have to wait, that 368 00:23:10,950 --> 00:23:14,379 Speaker 2: he had to wait a while. And yet, it's in 369 00:23:14,420 --> 00:23:18,180 Speaker 2: the next verse, and God says to him, Habakkuk, you 370 00:23:18,220 --> 00:23:22,300 Speaker 2: heard me right. I'm sending the Babylonians, and I know 371 00:23:22,340 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 2: what they're right. You leave them to me. They're mine. 372 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,460 Speaker 2: But Habakkuk, here's my message for you. My message for 373 00:23:29,570 --> 00:23:33,610 Speaker 2: you is this. The just will live by faith. You 374 00:23:33,650 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 2: trust me. You just trust me. And That sounds so simple, 375 00:23:38,660 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 2: and it's so beautiful, but it's so hard. We want 376 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,610 Speaker 2: a personal answer. We want Habakkuk, I'm going to make 377 00:23:46,650 --> 00:23:49,490 Speaker 2: it all right for you. But that isn't what he said. 378 00:23:49,650 --> 00:23:52,830 Speaker 2: He just said, trust me. And that's what he said 379 00:23:52,890 --> 00:23:56,340 Speaker 2: to me, Michelle. He just said, Linda, trust me. Just 380 00:23:56,460 --> 00:24:01,360 Speaker 2: trust me. And I'm not going to explain anything. why 381 00:24:01,740 --> 00:24:04,400 Speaker 2: one of your daughters died and why one of them 382 00:24:04,540 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 2: is still having so many physical problems. Will you just 383 00:24:07,780 --> 00:24:10,980 Speaker 2: trust me? Will you just trust me? I'm not going 384 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:15,340 Speaker 2: to answer those individual questions that you're asking me. Just 385 00:24:15,420 --> 00:24:17,940 Speaker 2: trust me. And I love the rest of the book 386 00:24:18,090 --> 00:24:21,470 Speaker 2: because it's all about worship. And it ends with the 387 00:24:21,530 --> 00:24:25,710 Speaker 2: most beautiful worship statement at the end of the book, 388 00:24:25,770 --> 00:24:28,850 Speaker 2: where he just says, though everything is taken from me, 389 00:24:29,300 --> 00:24:32,689 Speaker 2: He basically says, I'm going to spin around with joy 390 00:24:32,710 --> 00:24:36,670 Speaker 2: and dance before you, even though I don't understand you. 391 00:24:37,130 --> 00:24:41,050 Speaker 2: And that doesn't make sense to in a human perspective. 392 00:24:41,170 --> 00:24:44,630 Speaker 2: But he had seen it was like Job saw who 393 00:24:44,650 --> 00:24:48,869 Speaker 2: God was. Habakkuk saw who God was. And he just said, God, 394 00:24:48,930 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 2: I'm going to trust you. You said to me, trust you. 395 00:24:52,180 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 2: And that's what I'm going to do. And that's what 396 00:24:54,740 --> 00:24:57,530 Speaker 2: I want to do. Even though I don't understand him, 397 00:24:57,770 --> 00:25:02,450 Speaker 2: even though from my little puny human perspective, he doesn't 398 00:25:02,470 --> 00:25:05,669 Speaker 2: make sense to me. He's God. I'm not God. And 399 00:25:05,730 --> 00:25:06,610 Speaker 2: I want to trust him. 400 00:25:06,950 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: And even though we would never ask for our painful trials, 401 00:25:10,700 --> 00:25:15,139 Speaker 1: what a blessing, though, that Those trials give us the 402 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:20,699 Speaker 1: opportunity to learn greater dependence on God. When life is 403 00:25:20,790 --> 00:25:23,590 Speaker 1: going well, isn't it easy to say, I got this one, God, 404 00:25:23,630 --> 00:25:25,250 Speaker 1: I'll let you know when I need you. But when 405 00:25:25,290 --> 00:25:28,830 Speaker 1: we're really hurting and things don't make sense and he's 406 00:25:29,010 --> 00:25:32,460 Speaker 1: not answering our questions, if we can get to that 407 00:25:32,500 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: place when we're flat on our back and the only 408 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,750 Speaker 1: place to look is up, We realize just how much 409 00:25:37,810 --> 00:25:41,030 Speaker 1: we do need him and we have to trust him. Linda, 410 00:25:41,350 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 1: if a listener is resonating with our conversation today, not 411 00:25:44,940 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: necessarily that they've lost a daughter or that they're even 412 00:25:48,100 --> 00:25:52,439 Speaker 1: going through grief, but loss takes various forms. What hope-filled 413 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,139 Speaker 1: perspective would you want to leave them with today? 414 00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:00,129 Speaker 2: Just that God is the answer. That God is the 415 00:26:00,369 --> 00:26:06,690 Speaker 2: answer to pain, to heartbreak, to shattered dreams. And he 416 00:26:06,930 --> 00:26:12,790 Speaker 2: is the answer. We run to food. We run to shopping. 417 00:26:13,130 --> 00:26:16,810 Speaker 2: We run to activities. We run to anything that we 418 00:26:16,850 --> 00:26:18,910 Speaker 2: think is going to fill us up. We run to 419 00:26:18,990 --> 00:26:22,889 Speaker 2: a person, to a place, to a thing. But we 420 00:26:22,930 --> 00:26:25,879 Speaker 2: need to get on our knees and run to God. 421 00:26:26,100 --> 00:26:28,660 Speaker 2: We need to run to his word and to his 422 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 2: spirit because it's God's word and God's spirit. They're the 423 00:26:33,060 --> 00:26:34,250 Speaker 2: ones that are going to fill us up. 424 00:26:36,590 --> 00:26:39,050 Speaker 1: And I thank you for sharing out of your own 425 00:26:39,170 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: grief and loss and pain to encourage our listeners today. 426 00:26:43,260 --> 00:26:45,439 Speaker 1: I know you wouldn't have signed up for it, but 427 00:26:45,500 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: I thank you that out of that pain, you're offering 428 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,100 Speaker 1: hope to other hurting hearts. Friends, I just want to 429 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: leave you with Romans 15, 13 today. I don't know 430 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,350 Speaker 1: what your circumstance is. I don't know what kind of 431 00:26:58,430 --> 00:27:01,119 Speaker 1: pain you're dealing with or have just come out of 432 00:27:01,260 --> 00:27:04,859 Speaker 1: or might be preparing to go into. Romans 15, 13 433 00:27:04,859 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 1: reminds us, now may the God of hope fill you 434 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:14,010 Speaker 1: with all joy and peace in believing so that you 435 00:27:14,050 --> 00:27:18,130 Speaker 1: will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Friend, 436 00:27:18,170 --> 00:27:20,700 Speaker 1: you don't have to manufacture that hope on your own. 437 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 1: It's the Holy Spirit that gives it to you. Friends, 438 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 1: I appreciate you tuning in for another episode of Your 439 00:27:25,700 --> 00:27:28,740 Speaker 1: Hope-Filled Perspective. I hope that there was something today in 440 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,020 Speaker 1: the conversation with Linda that has encouraged your heart. And 441 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,300 Speaker 1: if you know a friend who's going through a difficult 442 00:27:34,340 --> 00:27:38,790 Speaker 1: time and needs a biblically-based hope-filled perspective, would you consider 443 00:27:38,850 --> 00:27:41,470 Speaker 1: sharing this episode with them? I'm looking forward to being 444 00:27:41,510 --> 00:27:44,490 Speaker 1: with you for another episode next week. But until then, 445 00:27:44,770 --> 00:27:48,410 Speaker 1: it's my prayer for you that you have a hope-filled week. 446 00:27:50,350 --> 00:27:53,959 Speaker 4: Thank you for joining Dr. Bankston for your hope-filled perspective. 447 00:27:54,540 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 4: We hope you were encouraged by her authenticity, vulnerability, and 448 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,300 Speaker 4: biblical truths. If you enjoyed today's conversation, why don't you 449 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,640 Speaker 4: take a moment right now, open up your podcast app, 450 00:28:05,850 --> 00:28:08,090 Speaker 4: and look for the subscribe button right next to our 451 00:28:08,130 --> 00:28:11,790 Speaker 4: podcast profile image. We think this podcast is best enjoyed 452 00:28:11,810 --> 00:28:14,369 Speaker 4: with friends, so tell a friend and click share in 453 00:28:14,490 --> 00:28:17,310 Speaker 4: your podcast app and send a friend our link to 454 00:28:17,369 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 4: share hope with them. If you have a comment, question, 455 00:28:20,780 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 4: or suggested topic for a future show, reach out to 456 00:28:23,580 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 4: our staff at info at hopeprevails.org. For additional resources, information 457 00:28:29,020 --> 00:28:33,090 Speaker 4: about Dr. Bankson's books or free downloads, or to contact 458 00:28:33,130 --> 00:28:37,910 Speaker 4: her to speak at your next event, please visit drmichelleb.com. 459 00:28:38,370 --> 00:28:41,570 Speaker 4: Until next time, may you have a hope-filled week. 460 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: I'd like to take just a second to thank the 461 00:28:47,180 --> 00:28:50,110 Speaker 1: team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on 462 00:28:50,140 --> 00:28:53,970 Speaker 1: this podcast. If you go to lifeaudio.com, you'll find dozens 463 00:28:54,030 --> 00:28:57,630 Speaker 1: of other faith-centered podcasts in their network. They've got shows 464 00:28:57,670 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more.