1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: If you think the Nancy Guthrie investigation is just slow, 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: you're missing the scandal. Former Panal County Sheriff Mark Lamb 3 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:09,559 Speaker 1: tells me people were using the bathroom inside the crime scene. 4 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: Sheriff now has released that crime scene way too early 5 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: and then went to a University of Arizona basketball game 6 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: while a woman was missing. This isn't just in competence. 7 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: The evidence might just be gone forever. Watch this. Let 8 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 1: me ask you up front, if you know this guy Nanos. 9 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,159 Speaker 1: I know that it's a neighboring county from where you 10 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: were the sheriff for a long time. Pima County is 11 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: not Panal County. I don't know the makeup of the county, 12 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: But just as an observer, I'm watching him and I'm going, 13 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: what's he doing? They released the crime scene too early. 14 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: He's at a basketball game the other day. He admits 15 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: that they messed up. So let's start from the start. 16 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,599 Speaker 1: Do you know this guy and how would you rate 17 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 1: what he's been doing on this case so far? 18 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 2: I do know him. There's only fifteen sheriffs in the 19 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 2: state of Arizona, and our counties boarded. We worked together 20 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 2: on a few things. He's been very good. I had 21 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 2: a deputy shot one time. He came in, was right 22 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 2: there for us. You know, doing the media pieces. Part 23 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 2: of being sheriff. Being able to go in front of 24 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 2: the cameras and talk to people about a major case 25 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 2: and give them confidence that that case is being handled 26 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 2: to the best of the agency's ability, that you're exhausting 27 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 2: every resource is one of the primary responsibilities. I can 28 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 2: say he does not look very comfortable in front of 29 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 2: the camera. I don't feel like the family has really 30 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 2: felt that sense of confidence that they're looking for from 31 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 2: law enforcement. And you mentioned the basketball game. Look, I'm 32 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 2: not one to bash on people. Everybody's got to do 33 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 2: their thing. I certainly don't like to take shots at 34 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 2: sheriff's and I don't mean this as a shot. That's 35 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 2: not what I would have done. I think you've got 36 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 2: to read the room. I think you've got to understand 37 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 2: that the family, this is everything to them right now, 38 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 2: and you might have to miss that game so to 39 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 2: be able to And this isn't the only case they have, 40 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 2: Like there's a lot of cases they've got going on, 41 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 2: but this is the case that's garnering the national attention. 42 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 2: And I would have probably skipped the basketball game. 43 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: Well, I think that you make a great point, beguyse 44 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: this has internet intrigue. You've got people from the BBC, 45 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: from the Guardian, people from Australia, for god sakes, carrying 46 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 1: this every single day, a case out of Tucson, Arizona. 47 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 1: So I think that, like you said, you've got to 48 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: read the room better. But but you all, the first 49 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: point you made really jumps out at me. Mark. You 50 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: were an unbelievable sheriff. I wish that you could be 51 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: sheriff forever. I think you are America's sheriff. I believe that. 52 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: But along with why you were so good was your 53 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: knowledge of law enforcement. You speak two languages, knowing you 54 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: know who your constituency is. You also in front of 55 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: the camera are this good every single time? So when 56 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: you get elected to that job, you've got to expect 57 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: that you were going to be the face of that 58 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: force and that that sheriff's department is not looking great 59 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: right now because of the speed of the leader. Does 60 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: that make sense? 61 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 2: Absolutely? And look, when it comes time for re election, 62 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 2: I think this case is probably going to come back 63 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 2: to haunt him because of how I think that the 64 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 2: public has perceived him, and on a national level, there's 65 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 2: been a lot of fire at him. Look, I'm going 66 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 2: to give him some cover because when you go into 67 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 2: these initial cases, it is not illegal for an adult 68 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 2: to disappear. So oftentimes when we go into a case 69 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 2: where there's somebody that's not there, it doesn't always start 70 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 2: off as an abduction or a kidnapping case. You have 71 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 2: to then start to look and see is there evidence, 72 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 2: is there dementia, is there mental health issues, or is 73 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 2: there evidence to believe that this was a violent or 74 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 2: an abduction or something else. Now you're not gonna maybe 75 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 2: see that initially, and I don't know how they process 76 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 2: the scene initially, but they did come up with enough 77 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 2: to say, yes, this looks like an abduction case or 78 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 2: at least removed without her will. And we've got enough 79 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 2: on the scene to tell us that. So we're gonna 80 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 2: treat this case a little bit differently, so you don't 81 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,119 Speaker 2: always go into the case thinking this is an abduction. 82 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: And I don't want to drag the guy anymore. I 83 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: do want to talk about the investigative tactics though, because 84 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: I'm not an investigator, but I've learned a lot from 85 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: you certainly going by the way, going supportiscandidacy, sherifflame dot com, 86 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: sherifflame dot com. You get to the scene, and again, 87 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 1: we don't know that it's Savannah Guthrie's mother yet. And 88 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: she disappeared early in the morning on Sunday morning, and 89 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: nobody even knows that she's gone until she doesn't show 90 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: up for Sunday mass right or Sunday service. So you've 91 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: got a good long time there. That's probably a good 92 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 1: eight ten hours before you even know that she's missing, 93 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: You get a missing person's report, you go there. So 94 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: far this is not an international intrigued story. I get it. 95 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: But Mark, look again, I'm kind of a dumb guy 96 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: when it comes to investigating. You've got blood at our 97 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: front door, You've got the camera is disabled and you 98 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: could see that spotlights are knocked out or the not 99 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: working right, and her car is stole there, but she's not. 100 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: At that point, you're now in the investigative mode. Would 101 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: you have released and again this isn't about dragging nanos, 102 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: I'm just asking you investigatively. Would you have released the 103 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,479 Speaker 1: house a day or two later? I mean, they said, okay, 104 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: we're all clear they took the crime tape down. I 105 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 1: don't get it. 106 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 2: Now. We've sat on houses for lesser things for days 107 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 2: at a time, and this would have been something that 108 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 2: in tell you sure that you had all the evidence 109 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 2: you would contain. Because this is a very fluid case, Joe. 110 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 2: You're getting information, tips, ransom letters, you're getting all this stuff. 111 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 2: You can't You've got to be able to process it, 112 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 2: evaluate it to make sure that the information they may 113 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,919 Speaker 2: be giving you on a ransom letter is legit, because 114 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 2: the house has been undisturbed since she left. But I 115 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 2: was actually hearing from people that are providing security down 116 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 2: there that when they need to use the bathroom, they 117 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 2: go inside the house and use the bathroom. The scene 118 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 2: has really been lost and it's been shut you know, 119 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 2: it's been roped off multiple times. Look, everybody, it's easy 120 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 2: twenty twenty. Hindsight is twenty twenty. But one of the 121 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 2: first rules of crime scene is you got to lock 122 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 2: down the scene and hold it as long as you can, 123 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 2: especially if there's no need for anybody to get back 124 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 2: into the home. This is something you want to lock 125 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 2: down and keep it locked down so that you can 126 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 2: preserve whatever evidence may be there so that when you 127 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 2: do find her, you can also ensure a conviction as well. 128 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 2: Whatever whether the crime stops it the kidnapping if it, 129 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 2: or Heaven forbid, it progresses into what what could be 130 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 2: potentially be a murder, you want to make sure that 131 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 2: you preserve all of the evidence that you can. And 132 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 2: as far as this being so international and across this country, 133 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 2: we're enthralled with true crime. It's to the point where 134 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 2: I've even started a true crime channel on YouTube. But 135 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 2: we love true crime and we're living this right now. 136 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,359 Speaker 2: We're like, we're all in this investigation together, and so 137 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 2: that is part of the intrigue. I've been saying on 138 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 2: some of the media, and I don't want to get 139 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 2: too far off the path because I want to stay 140 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 2: focused on this case. But I wish that we gave 141 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 2: missing children cases the same attention nationally and media wise 142 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 2: and resource wise as we are giving to this case. 143 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 2: Not that I want to take away from this case, 144 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 2: but I think that a lot of families are saying 145 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 2: to themselves, they did not give me this type of attention, 146 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 2: and my child would listen, and I would hope that 147 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 2: we would learn something through this case from that. 148 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: I hope that we do as well. And that's certainly 149 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 1: going to resonate with somebody like me. I've got five daughters. 150 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: I get it without a doubt. But let's go back 151 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: to what you said before. That the reason why you've 152 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: got a YouTube channel on true crime, and the reason 153 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: why when I invested. When I interviewed this FBI investigator 154 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: the other day, it went absolutely ballistic. People are locked 155 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: to their devices. I just want an update when we 156 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: have something where we just don't know, we have no idea. 157 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: I think that really grabs our attention. And now here's 158 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: Savannah Gufree forced to go on television do these or 159 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: on Instagram and do these videos with her brother and sister. 160 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: The whole thing is so screwed up. Let's talk about 161 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: the case and and by the way, oh no, but 162 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: please to say, please those videos real quick. 163 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 2: I don't mean to interrupt, Joe, because I don't want 164 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 2: you to get too far away. Those videos they are purposeful 165 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 2: as well. If you're familiar with how we do cases 166 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 2: for with missing people, those messages were very they they 167 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 2: were very purposeful. Not to kill that word, but they're 168 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 2: very purposeful. What happened is, she says look, we want 169 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 2: to open a line of communication. That's one of the 170 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 2: things you do with somebody that's been kidnapped. Number Two, 171 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 2: you have an ask of the kidnappers. You say, we 172 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 2: need proof of life on this case. So that and 173 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 2: we don't want to see there's a lot of fake 174 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 2: stuff out there, so please give us real proof of life. 175 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 2: And the third thing that you will do is humanize 176 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 2: the victim, which they did both the brother and Savannah. 177 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 2: They've done in those videos. They humanize or she's our mother, 178 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 2: we love her, if she's a great woman. This is 179 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 2: what you do. So while that was they don't tell 180 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 2: you exactly what to say, they were following a script 181 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 2: that FBI or law enforcement. We use that script to 182 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 2: be able to get this case moving to where we 183 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 2: need to get it moving. 184 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: It's such a great point. I'm glad that And by 185 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: the way, there's a little bit of a delay between us, 186 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: so don't worry about it. Just jump in if you 187 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: want to interrupt. It is a Sheriff Mark Lamb Retire 188 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: Panel County Arizona running for District five, republic Ingratiated of 189 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 1: Arizona sherifflame dot com. Let's talk about that a little 190 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 1: bit further, Mark, is it weird that the ransom note 191 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: isn't going to the family, it's not even going to 192 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: the police. The ransom notes of going to the local 193 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: KOLD channel thirteen or something. What does that tell you 194 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: that this guy is sending or these people are sending 195 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:12,199 Speaker 1: these notes if they're real, to a local TV station. 196 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 2: So I'm a little dubious as to whether they are real. 197 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 2: First of all, Joe, we've already had one where somebody 198 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 2: got arrested. There's supposedly been some information in there, and 199 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 2: I've heard a little bit behind the scenes that I 200 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 2: don't want to divulge, but there's been information in those 201 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 2: letters that would indicate that these might be legit, and 202 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 2: you have to treat them as such. If you don't 203 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 2: know for sure they're not, you've got to treat them 204 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 2: as legit. Part of the reason they may be sending 205 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 2: them to the media is because it provides a level 206 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 2: of protection. The freedom of press is probably going to 207 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 2: give a little bit of buffer. I don't know that 208 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 2: the press would share an IP address or Sarah information 209 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 2: on a source as readily as maybe the family would 210 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 2: be able to immediately. The FBI is going to be 211 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 2: on it, looking for the IP, looking for any information 212 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 2: they can to try down where those are coming from. 213 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 2: So that could be one of the reasons what is 214 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 2: odd to me. I was asked yesterday, what is odd 215 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 2: to me? Is the six million dollar figure? 216 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: Right? 217 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,319 Speaker 2: And they said why? And I said, well, why not five? 218 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 2: Why not ten? It's just weird that somebody would pick 219 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 2: six million dollars as that number. Some of the information 220 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 2: I've heard that is information coming from in the house. 221 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 2: I'll tell you one of them was like, I think iPhone, 222 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:26,559 Speaker 2: you know, a watch charge. I don't want to say 223 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:30,599 Speaker 2: what the other one was. So there was enough information 224 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 2: for them to say we better take this serious. So 225 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 2: I don't know whether it's been vetted to be true, 226 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 2: but they have to err on the side of caution. 227 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: It is Sheriff, Mark Levi, Sheriff. I've got to ask 228 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: you because my brain's going to million miles a minute 229 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: trying to figure out if I were a bad guy 230 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: and I'm not, so I can't really get into that mindset. 231 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: If I were going to be holding somebody for ransom, 232 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 1: the first thing I would do is show signs of life. 233 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: Why I wouldn't think I would be getting paid if 234 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: I can't prove that I still have the person alive. 235 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: Why do you think we haven't gotten a sign of 236 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: life yet. I'm not asking you if she dead or alive. 237 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: I'm just wondering if you really want to get that money. 238 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: And Savannah just said in the most recent one, we 239 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: will pay. Why wouldn't you give me something that shows 240 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: me that she's still alive. 241 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 2: Well, this is why I had struggled to believe that 242 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 2: these these ransom letters are true. That's why it gives 243 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 2: me pause, is because you're right. You would show proof 244 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 2: of life, say, look, we haven't, so that would make 245 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 2: them want to give the money should there be an 246 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 2: actual abduction, you know, like if this was legit, they 247 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 2: would want to pay the money because they've seen the 248 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 2: proof of life. The fact, if you were scamming, if 249 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 2: you were just a really good scammer, which there are, 250 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 2: and you were taking advantage of this situation, you would 251 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 2: be unable to show proof of life. So you're going 252 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 2: to try to muscle them into making the payment and 253 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 2: then tell them you're going to drop her off in 254 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 2: a safe location. They didn't say they would drop her 255 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 2: off safely. They just said they would drop her off 256 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:54,959 Speaker 2: in a safe location somewhere in Tucson, and I think 257 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 2: that's a big distinction. So that gives me pause. You know, 258 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 2: we deal with a lot of cartel stuff. You get 259 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 2: a lot of cartel abductions, and they're always they are 260 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 2: much more apt to show like a proof of life, 261 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 2: and this doesn't have any of those signs to me. 262 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 2: Those tales, and I've discussed it with other people that 263 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 2: have dealt with them as well, This doesn't feel like that. 264 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 2: This really feels there's some familiarity in how this went about, 265 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 2: and this always going to be kind of how you're 266 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 2: going to look at first. Anyway, Over ninety percent of 267 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 2: cases like this are done by somebody who's familiar with 268 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 2: the family or even a family member haven't forbid, So 269 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,079 Speaker 2: that's going to be where you're going to really kind 270 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 2: of start your targeting in that area. 271 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: Mark. As you were speaking, Savannah Guthrie dropped another video 272 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: and you haven't seen this. I haven't seen this. I 273 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: will try to edit it in later, but I'll let 274 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: you hear it as you do this interview live, and 275 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 1: if you don't mind, give me your thoughts as soon 276 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: as this is done. It'say about a minute a half long. 277 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:53,839 Speaker 1: Tell me what you think about this because the last 278 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:55,839 Speaker 1: video that we just saw a lot of people started 279 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: questioning whether Nancy Guthrie was alive for the simple reason 280 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: that they were like, we want to be at peace 281 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: or we want to celebrate with her. They weren't. They 282 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: didn't ask a proof of life last time. This is 283 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: what Savannah Guthrie dropped. This is less than thirty minutes ago. 284 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 3: Hi, there, everybody. I wanted to come on and just 285 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 3: share a few thoughts as we enter into another week 286 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 3: of this nightmare. I just want to say, first of all, 287 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 3: thank you so much for all of the prayers and 288 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 3: the love that we have felt, my sister and brother 289 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 3: and I and that our mom has felt. Because we 290 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 3: believe that somehow, in some ways, she is feeling these 291 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 3: prayers and that God is lifting her even in this 292 00:13:55,240 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 3: moment and in this darkest place, we believe our mom 293 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 3: is still out there. We need your help. Law enforcement 294 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 3: is working tirelessly around the clock trying to bring her home, 295 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 3: trying to find her. She was taken and we don't 296 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 3: know where, and we need your help. So I'm coming 297 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 3: on just to ask you not just for your prayers. 298 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 3: But no matter where you are, even if you're far 299 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 3: from Tucson, if you see anything, you hear anything, if 300 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 3: there's anything at all that seems strange to you, that 301 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 3: you report to law enforcement. We are an hour of 302 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 3: desperation and we need your help. 303 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: She just posted that a half an hour ago. Mark, 304 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: What do you. 305 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 2: Think So the initial please were to the kidnappers, the abductors, 306 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 2: this plea, because that that's gone nowhere. So now this 307 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 2: initial this plea is to the public, And this is 308 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 2: really to somebody who may have information, who may know 309 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 2: the people that are responsible for what's going on, and 310 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 2: you're hoping that you can reach them emotionally, to be 311 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 2: able to strike a chord within somebody that might have 312 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 2: information that normally probably wouldn't give it up, that maybe 313 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 2: getting concerned, they don't want to get roped in with 314 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 2: the crime. So I think this is actually more for 315 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 2: obviously more for the it doesn't take a rocket scientist 316 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 2: figure that out, but it's more for the public, and 317 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 2: it's really probably targeted more to those who might have 318 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 2: intimate knowledge of what's going on and trying to strike 319 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 2: a chord with those people. 320 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: She uses the word desperation, sheriff. I mean, obviously she's 321 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: very frustrated we're not getting she's not getting the innswest 322 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: that maybe she thinks that she needs. And certainly she 323 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: says of her mom back, So I understand where she's 324 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: coming from. But to use the word desperation, what does 325 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 1: that tell you? 326 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 2: Well, desperation means that they haven't had a lot of hope, 327 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 2: which means they haven't been given anything any Maybe there's 328 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 2: no leads. I don't know. I would like to believe 329 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 2: that the video they recovered from the gas station and 330 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 2: some of the other businesses that they've been approaching, that 331 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 2: that maybe they've gotten some video information that has given 332 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 2: them some leads to work off of. When when the 333 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 2: agencies kind of go quiet, it leads me to believe 334 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 2: that they're working leads and they don't want to they 335 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 2: don't want to disturb the uh, they don't want to 336 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 2: rustle up the weeds too much because they they don't 337 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 2: want the suspect to go quiet on them. And so 338 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 2: I think that they've probably got something there and maybe 339 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 2: this is to make them feel comfortable. Maybe they're closer 340 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 2: than we think. There's a lot at play I'm kind 341 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 2: of you know, I'm using some speculation here on many ends, 342 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 2: but there's a lot that could be going on. 343 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: It is a Sheriff Mark lanb retired Panel County, Arizona, 344 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: running for District five Republican Great State of Arizona. Go 345 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: to sheriff land dot com and help him win that seat. 346 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: Andy Biggs is running for governor of Arizona. That's why 347 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: the seat is going to be availed. Let's talk about 348 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: what they what they didn't take with them when they 349 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 1: took her. Didn't take the Apple watch which is sync 350 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: to her pacemaker, that's a problem. Didn't take her medication. 351 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,360 Speaker 1: She's got a heart condition, that's a problem. Mark, Does 352 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: that tell you that that's somebody who knows her, or 353 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: that's that's somebody who doesn't know her, Because if she 354 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: were conscious and I have no idea what her condition was, 355 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,719 Speaker 1: you know when they when they left the house. But 356 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: if she's conscious, she's gonna say it. He might my 357 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: heart pills, I need, my pacemaker is connected to my watch. 358 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,439 Speaker 1: What do you make of them leaving those vital things there? Anything? 359 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 2: Well, Joe, like I already mentioned, over ninety percent of 360 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,479 Speaker 2: these cases are often are going to be people who 361 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 2: are familiar with the person or family, somebody close and 362 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 2: so that automatically points that direction. Then you find the 363 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 2: camera was removed from the front door. This is a 364 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 2: very dark, dark area. There's no lighting, no street lights, 365 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 2: so somebody is going to have to know. Okay, I've 366 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,679 Speaker 2: got to disable this. There was a flood light on 367 00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 2: the side of the house that we saw was broken. 368 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 2: We saw that they were there for a period of time. 369 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 2: It looks like it could be thirty minutes they were 370 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,919 Speaker 2: there in the residence. So to me, it shows a 371 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:13,959 Speaker 2: lot of familiarity with the residence, with probably her as well, 372 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 2: knowing enough to know that she has a pacemaker to 373 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 2: leave obviously going to leave the watch on the phone 374 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 2: behind because that's how people can track you. So that's 375 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 2: kind of that one. Really isn't that big of a deal. 376 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 2: That's not a surprise. A good Kraminal or somebody who's 377 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:29,959 Speaker 2: planned this out would leave that behind. 378 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:31,439 Speaker 1: Yes, But. 379 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:37,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, but the meds, you know, maybe they just maybe 380 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 2: they did take some of it. Who knows, ye, I 381 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 2: don't know that anybody really knows how many were in 382 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 2: the bottle. 383 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:44,679 Speaker 1: So man, that's a really Hey, Mark that's a really 384 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: good point. I've heard nobody say they could have grabbed 385 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: enough for a few days. You're thinking that this would 386 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 1: be over quickly. That's actually a very good point. But 387 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 1: without it now, and if they don't get it refilled somewhere, 388 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: if they've had her for more than a week, a 389 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: week and three days or something, now, I mean that 390 00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 1: we're a week of a day. I mean we're talking 391 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: about what she just said, desperation for sure. Why haven't 392 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: they said excluded anybody yet? Mark, I gotta tell you, man, 393 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 1: and I don't know anything from anything other than watching 394 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: you on Live PD and seeing your true live your 395 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: true crime stories, and you're the best in the business. 396 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: Why not exclude everybody in the family? Now? That really 397 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 1: jumps out at me? Does it jump out at you? 398 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 2: Yeah? I've been saying this from the beginning. What my 399 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 2: job would be is I would sit down with the 400 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 2: family and say, this is nothing personal, but we're trying 401 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 2: to find your mother and we are going to have 402 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 2: to start where we think the crime could potentially be. 403 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 2: We have to vet all of you. We need to 404 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:36,640 Speaker 2: make sure we need your phones, we need to make 405 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 2: sure that we can clear you as potential leads or suspects. 406 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:42,439 Speaker 2: That would have been one of my first things. Now, 407 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 2: I would have cast a wide net. At the same time, 408 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 2: I would have made sure that we're not letting her 409 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 2: get any further than what we needed, worked with the 410 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 2: state partners, make sure that we checked all the LPRs, 411 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:56,400 Speaker 2: the license plate readers, flock cameras in the area gas stations. 412 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 2: Those would have been things that we would have been 413 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 2: doing within the first h as quickly as we could, 414 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 2: So twelve twenty four hours, we would have been canvassing 415 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 2: those areas. We'd have been going to neighbors asking them 416 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 2: to see if they had any videos. They would have 417 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 2: had to have passed a lot of houses in a 418 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 2: vehicle before they would have got there, and there's only 419 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 2: a couple intersections they would have actually come out on, 420 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 2: so you would have been able to really focus in 421 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 2: on those intersections and cameras out of those intersections, and 422 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 2: so there's a lot of things that I would have 423 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 2: worked on. But I would have going back to your question, 424 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 2: I would have started in an effort to clear the 425 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 2: family and put it out to the media. Hey, we 426 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 2: have extensively looked in and we can confidently say they 427 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 2: are not involved, or we can say we have suspicions 428 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,639 Speaker 2: that we're looking into right now, and I think it 429 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 2: eliminates a lot of doubt. But look, we're going I 430 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 2: got to be honest and fair. We're going back now 431 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 2: a week and we have had a lot of information 432 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 2: that these guys are not privy to as the investigation unfolds. 433 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 2: I'm just talking just as what we probably would have done. 434 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 2: But obviously it's easy to say, sitting here looking back 435 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 2: a week. 436 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,159 Speaker 1: Mark, do you take anything away from I'll give you 437 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 1: an example. My mom doesn't live four miles from me, 438 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: but if she did, I wouldn't have her uber to 439 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: my house. I just found it to be very strange 440 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: that she took an uber four miles away. Now, they 441 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: or the son in law whomever dropped her off. They 442 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: say at nine to thirty or whatever, after spending about 443 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 1: four hours at her daughter an I think it's Annie's house. 444 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,919 Speaker 1: As an investigator, do you go, why would you have 445 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 1: mom uber four miles to your house? 446 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, a little bit. You know, Look, there's a lot 447 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 2: of reasons. Maybe they were busy and they were gonna 448 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 2: they you know, they were coming home at a certain time. 449 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 2: And they wanted her to be there when they got home. 450 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 2: I don't know. There might be some reasons, but it 451 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,199 Speaker 2: is a little strange that you wouldn't just drive and 452 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 2: pick her up, and then obviously dropping her off is 453 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 2: part of the reason why you would have to look 454 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 2: at them, because they are the last person to see here, Joe. 455 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 2: When we investigated crime, we look at means, opportunity and motive. 456 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,159 Speaker 2: The people with the most means an opportunity are oftentimes 457 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 2: family or somebody familiar with the house, who comes over 458 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 2: a careta, there's something, landscape or any of those types 459 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 2: of things are going to start to be people with 460 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 2: maybe means or opportunity. Then you look towards motive, look 461 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 2: at bank accounts, who's on the insurance policies, who who 462 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 2: would have a reason to look back at messages, find hers, 463 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 2: who is messaging her? Was she having a conflict with somebody, 464 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,640 Speaker 2: with somebody else messaging her threatening messages. There's a lot 465 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 2: you're going to start to unfold initially, and yeah, but 466 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 2: it is strange to me that they would have had 467 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 2: her uber over to the house initially. 468 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:42,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I do I find that audits Sheriff 469 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 1: Mark lamb go to sherifflame dot com. Sherifflame dot com 470 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: support is candidacy for Arizona five. As we're looking at 471 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 1: this case, as you said, as I said, it's eight days, 472 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: nine days old. Now at this point, are you are you? 473 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: Is your gut as a law enforcement officer going we 474 00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 1: don't find her soon? There's no way she's stile with us. 475 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: Guess again, no sign of life, doesn't have the heart medication. 476 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: The pacemaker I think was synced up to the phone 477 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 1: to or to or watch to make sure that it 478 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: was regulated the right way. But are You're starting to 479 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,120 Speaker 1: fear for her well being at this point? You got 480 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: to be at eight days no Joe. 481 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 2: Every day that goes by that the chances of finding 482 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 2: her alive diminish, And I think the longer you go, 483 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 2: the more they diminish. And we're gonna find out. I mean, tonight, 484 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 2: there's supposedly a deadline if this is a legit ransom letter. 485 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 2: They've talked about a consequential deadline tonight. I don't know 486 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 2: what that means consequentially, whether it's it costs you more money, 487 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 2: or whether it's consequences as far as her health there is. Yeah, 488 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 2: it's I think that every day goes by. I don't 489 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 2: want to be the guy that says it, but every 490 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 2: day that goes by, I would be if they were 491 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 2: to find her alive at this point, Joe, I'd be shocked. 492 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 1: Thus the desperation in Savannah Guthrie's latest video. They just 493 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,919 Speaker 1: happened as we're doing this interview. Let me ask you 494 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: about cooperating and working with the FBI. I'm guessing that 495 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: as the sheriff of Panell County you had an occasion 496 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: to work with the FBI. How does that work? Do 497 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: they take over a case like this is the FBI 498 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 1: sort of going full steam ahead behind the scenes, and 499 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: Nanos is still sort of the face of the of 500 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: the operation. How does that work? 501 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 2: So a missing persons is oftentimes an FBI case because 502 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 2: it sometimes it involves across jurisdiction, interstate jurisdictions. So they 503 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 2: are very good at this. This is why you involved 504 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 2: the FBI. They have specialized units for kidnapping, they have 505 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 2: specialized units for processing cell phones, computers. They have an 506 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 2: access to programs and technology that we don't in local 507 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:45,360 Speaker 2: law enforcement. Obviously we take the case, but it's very 508 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,359 Speaker 2: it's very common that you would involve the FBI at 509 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 2: an early stage, and in what turns out to be 510 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 2: an abduction or kidnapping case, you're going to try to 511 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 2: get them involved as soon as you can, because they're 512 00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 2: going to be able to provide a lot of help 513 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 2: in a case like this. 514 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: You know, it's really a frustrating market, and that will 515 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 1: end it in a few minutes. I know you've got 516 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: a lot of people waiting to talk to you. Thanks 517 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 1: for always making time for my show and for me. 518 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: Thank you. What jumps out at me is that we've 519 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,160 Speaker 1: got the best technology we've ever had in history right now, 520 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: the best. I mean, I guess there is some box 521 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 1: that the FBI can bring in and get every every 522 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: text message, everything that's ever happened in that house over 523 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,919 Speaker 1: the last course of time. That's awesome. But with all 524 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: the cameras and all the drones and all the technology 525 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 1: and all the everything, you know, you alluded to this earlier, 526 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,159 Speaker 1: there's only one or two ways in and out of 527 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: this neighborhood, so that that's going to limit your ability 528 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 1: to have this. And it was twelve thirty or one 529 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning, whatever it was, I gonna have 530 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:37,679 Speaker 1: a lot of people on the road. But with all 531 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: the technology, do we really not have anything other than 532 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 1: the circle K video? I mean, honestly, does that strike 533 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,640 Speaker 1: you as as weird that in this day and age 534 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 1: we've got very little technology whatsoever available to us to 535 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: help us. 536 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 2: I'm a constitutionalist. I think that the least amount of 537 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 2: government influence in our lives. You know, you're seeing more 538 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 2: and more traffic cameras. You're seeing more flock cameras, fax 539 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,360 Speaker 2: on cameras that are at intersections and they're very useful tools. 540 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 2: You're seeing more and more license plate readers, also very 541 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:16,119 Speaker 2: useful tools. The amount of cameras at people's houses, it 542 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 2: is very difficult to get away with the crime, which 543 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 2: is why I believe eventually they will find that missing 544 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 2: piece of evidence on somebody's home camera, on a business camera, 545 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 2: somebody that maybe doesn't realize they have it yet, or 546 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:35,400 Speaker 2: maybe the video footage of them casing the place prior 547 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 2: to this actually occurring. Because this is not something you 548 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:40,919 Speaker 2: would just do out of on a spur of the moment. 549 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 2: This might be something you planned ahead of time, especially 550 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 2: as how it's been going. This leads me to believe 551 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 2: that there was some pre planning as well, which would 552 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,480 Speaker 2: also open it up. So you are not only going 553 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 2: to go back to the day that she disappeared, You're 554 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 2: going to go back days before that, maybe a week 555 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 2: before that, to see if a VIA had been in 556 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 2: the area over and over again, casing the place. So 557 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 2: this is how you start to expand the investigation. But 558 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 2: you're right, with everything that is out there, I'm surprised 559 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 2: that there hasn't been some piece of evidence that has 560 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,679 Speaker 2: broken this case. Open all the phones, all the computer stuff, 561 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 2: all everything that we have. But at the same time, 562 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 2: I'm also a believer in our ability to not have 563 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 2: government interference in our lives or as minimal as possible. 564 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 1: Well, I think you know that I agree with you 565 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 1: on that. I'm a constitutionalist as well, and my privacy 566 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: is something that I really want to hold deer. Having 567 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: said that, my point is we've got a bunch of 568 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 1: technology out there, whether you and I like it or not. 569 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 1: I'm just a little surprised as you are that we 570 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 1: don't have all this stuff. So let me finish with u, 571 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,880 Speaker 1: because you just hit on something that's really really important. 572 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: I don't think somebody shows up that night, and does 573 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: all of that without having some knowledge, some prior knowledge 574 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,360 Speaker 1: of the layout, how to get in, how to get out, 575 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: how to maybe avoid the technology that's out there. Maybe 576 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: you don't go by the circle case, maybe a stay 577 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: away from other ring cameras that are in the same neighborhood. 578 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: So does that go back to possible family and does 579 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: it also go to possible You know jobbers are there, 580 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 1: And I'll make this point. I think you've seen the 581 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: overhead shots of this house, right it's a pure white, 582 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: almost brand new roof. Maybe somebody was there doing roofing contracting. 583 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: Do you start tracking down who's done any work at 584 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,199 Speaker 1: the house investigatively? Do you have to consider all of 585 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: that and go back? How far do you go back 586 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: a week? Do you go back three weeks? You go 587 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 1: like a month? How do you how do you deal 588 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:30,439 Speaker 1: with that part of it? 589 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 2: Look, because everybody you have to look into. You got 590 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 2: to clear them. The pool people, they were looking in 591 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 2: the septic tank yesterday, which leads me to believe they 592 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 2: got some piece of information that would make them think 593 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 2: that they would look into the septic tank. So there 594 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 2: is a lot of You're gonna have the longer this 595 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 2: goes the more you have to spread that out. But 596 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 2: like I said in the beginning, you cast a very 597 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 2: wide net everybody who had access to the house or 598 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 2: who might have a reason to have kidnapped her or 599 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 2: abducted her. You've got to look into as far as 600 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 2: the workers at the house. I wouldn't lean towards them, 601 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 2: but you certainly would like to vet them out and 602 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 2: make sure that you can clear them. Part of the 603 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 2: reason I say that is because what is the motivation there? 604 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 2: What is their reasoning for that. This typically goes back 605 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 2: to and I know people hate to hear this because 606 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 2: when it's such an emotional case, you know, when people 607 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 2: get mad, You're like, how can you blame the family? 608 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 2: It's just the way it is. Our job is to 609 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 2: find her, and our job is to hold people accountable 610 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 2: who commit crimes, who victimize other people. We have to 611 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,479 Speaker 2: take the feelings and the emotion out, or else we 612 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 2: won't find the people, we won't have success in closing cases. Right, 613 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 2: and so we have to look at everything very objectively 614 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 2: based on the evidence. And oftentimes and still to me, 615 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 2: that still leads back to somebody who is very familiar 616 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 2: with the house and likely. 617 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: Family, Mark gut feeling, and I'll let you go because 618 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: I know you've got people waiting gut feeling. Did they 619 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: get her because it's Savannah Guthrie's mother, or they gut 620 00:29:57,840 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: her and it just happens to be Savannah Guthrie's mother. 621 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 2: No, I think she hasked something. I think that she 622 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 2: doesn't have something to do with that. Let me make 623 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 2: that very clear. 624 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: Her being the daughter is somehow something to do with it. 625 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 2: I think that her being who she is plays a 626 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 2: role in this. I think that people knew that there 627 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 2: was access to money. She makes a good salary. They 628 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 2: probably thought that this would be something that they could 629 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 2: leverage into money. Clearly, there's a reason for it, and 630 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 2: it's most oftentimes money or you just have a real 631 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 2: grudge with somebody, But that would have already you would 632 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 2: be able to vet that out through messages through somebody, 633 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 2: through Savannah's messages. That would be vetted out a lot 634 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 2: easier than something done for money. So yeah, I think 635 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 2: that people whoever did this, if they did indeed kidnapped her, 636 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 2: that they knew who she was, and I think it 637 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 2: plays a role in the motive of why they did it. 638 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: Mark incredible information, man, I think some of the best 639 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: that we've heard so far on this. Thank you for that. 640 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: Going to check out as candidacy the strict five Republican 641 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: Great State of Arizona. He's running for any big seat. 642 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: Sherifflimb dot com. It's a former Panel County Sheriff, Mark Limb, Sheriff. Thanks, Samelion, 643 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:08,959 Speaker 1: appreciate you, Thank you. 644 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 2: And the true crime is at LAMB Investigations. So we'll 645 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 2: probably do something on this case and give our two 646 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 2: cents of what's going on with it in a day 647 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 2: or two. 648 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 1: So true it say again, true Crime Investigations. What is it? 649 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 2: It's just at LAMB Investigations. At LAMB Investigations. On YouTube, 650 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 2: we're doing true crime videos. 651 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 1: At LAMB Investigations. Go check it. I'm gonna go subscribe 652 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: right now. Mark, Thanks, Samelion, appreciate you, Thank you. 653 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 2: Joe. 654 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 1: All right, that's it for shaking a nut Afraid with 655 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: Joe Paggs. This time another one to drop very soon. 656 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 1: Make sure you subscribe.