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Speaker 1: Life audio.

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Speaker 2: After three days, I'm feeling good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody else is kind of like starting to get

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Speaker 1: beat up. But I'm like, I'm not hungover anymore and

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Speaker 1: I'm getting more energy. And there was no temptation to

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Speaker 1: drink at all. There was an opportunity. It was off

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Speaker 1: my mind. It was totally removed. I hadn't experienced that

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Speaker 1: in the years, and I was so convicted I was

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Speaker 1: never going to drink again. And I was just like

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Speaker 1: crushing it. And I had no intention of coming home

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Speaker 1: and within minutes driving to the liquor store when I

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Speaker 1: was alone, but I did it, and I did it's

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Speaker 1: within minutes.

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Speaker 3: Hello, Hello, and welcome to the Confessions of a Christian

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Speaker 3: Alcoholic podcast. I am your host, John Seidel. This is

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Speaker 3: your home for real stories, radical vulnerability, and remarkable comeback

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Speaker 3: In the end, this podcast is a place for the desperate,

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Speaker 3: the downtrodden, the destitute, and especially the drunk. But it's

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Speaker 3: also a place of hope and healing. I know that

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Speaker 3: firsthand because I'm the Christian who became an alcoholic, not

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Speaker 3: the other way around. Today, I've found sobriety after decades

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Speaker 3: of struggling. But more importantly than finding sobriety I found Jesus.

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Speaker 3: My prayer is that as I interview people just like

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Speaker 3: you and just like me, along with professionals in the

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Speaker 3: fields of trauma, faith and addiction recovery, you will find

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Speaker 3: the peace that is available to you through Christ on

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Speaker 3: the other side of whatever you're going through and whatever

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Speaker 3: addiction that might be, because let's face it, we're all

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Speaker 3: addicted to something so welcome. Let's get radically vulnerable as

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Speaker 3: we explore what it looks like to be on this

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Speaker 3: journey of messy sanctification. So I heard something recently, someone

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Speaker 3: says something that I thought was really good, and he said,

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Speaker 3: you know, even though all our stories are unique, when

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Speaker 3: it comes to a specially addiction, there are so many

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Speaker 3: contours that are the same. And I was thinking about

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Speaker 3: that as I was getting ready for today's interview, because

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Speaker 3: as I read Sherry Hoppins story, I was just blown

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Speaker 3: away about how many contours were the same, that even

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Speaker 3: though there are differences, that's so much of our story

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Speaker 3: overlaps or looks or sounds the same, a specially the deception,

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Speaker 3: which is one of the hardest things I've had to

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Speaker 3: live and deal with in the wake of getting sober

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Speaker 3: is the deception that I engaged in with my wife

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Speaker 3: and family and just what that did to her and

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Speaker 3: to them, and how I'm still picking up the pieces

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Speaker 3: from that. Listen, there is grace, but yet there are

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Speaker 3: still consequences. And I don't say that to scare you

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Speaker 3: if you're listening to this, because what I can say

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Speaker 3: is that even amidst the consequences, the joy and peace

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Speaker 3: that I have found since aiming for Jesus and getting

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Speaker 3: sobriety thrown in has been incredible. So today we're going

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Speaker 3: to talk to Sherry. Sherry's going to tell us her

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Speaker 3: story and the depths that it got to when she

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Speaker 3: was hiding and lying. And I think what is also

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Speaker 3: important about Sherry's story is that, you know, maybe for

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Speaker 3: some of you that are listening, you think, if I

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Speaker 3: can just do that one incredible thing that will break

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Speaker 3: the cycle, that will break me away from the addiction.

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Speaker 4: Let me do this.

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Speaker 3: One big, beautiful, incredible experience. I'm gonna go to Mantshu

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Speaker 3: Peachu and hike, and I know I have to get

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Speaker 3: sober for that, and then I'm gonna come back and

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Speaker 3: everything's gonna be great. And I think what you're gonna

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Speaker 3: realize is that Sherry had that right. She decided, I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna pedal my way from Michigan to Texas over twelve days,

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Speaker 3: and that is gonna be what finally gets me sober.

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Speaker 3: It got us sober until she came back that same

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Speaker 3: day and went to the liquor store and got wasted.

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Speaker 3: And then that happened time and time and time again.

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Speaker 3: And so she's gonna detail how she became the Christian

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Speaker 3: alcoholic as well. A Christian someone who loved Jesus and

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Speaker 3: followed Jesus hadn't really fully surrendered all of the parts

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Speaker 3: of herself Jesus, which is my story as well, and

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Speaker 3: yet slowly became an alcoholic. And it wasn't something I mean,

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Speaker 3: she didn't grow up drinking. She wasn't, you know, drinking

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Speaker 3: from the age of six. And you know that's no.

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Speaker 3: She had an event in life that threw her fur

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Speaker 3: a loop and slowly realized, Hey, if I just start

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Speaker 3: drinking and drinking earlier and earlier, it just helps kind

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Speaker 3: of numb some of this stuff. This background noise goes down.

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Speaker 3: So she always going to detail her story. She is a.

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Speaker 4: She's become an incredible.

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Speaker 3: Friend and She runs a program called Sela House, which

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Speaker 3: is a women's recovery house. They do a thirty day

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Speaker 3: inpatient program there in West Michigan on the shores of

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Speaker 3: Lake Michigan. And I'm excited for you to hear her story.

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Speaker 3: She's written a book called Sober Cycle and goes into

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Speaker 3: a lot more detail in the book. But she's going

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Speaker 3: to get into though, still some great details. So we're

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Speaker 3: going to talk to Sherry here. But first of all,

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Speaker 3: if you want to watch this episode with Sherry, you

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Speaker 3: can go to the Veritasdaily dot com. You can sign

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Speaker 3: up to be a subscriber for I mean, I think

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Speaker 3: it's seven dollars a month or sixty dollars a year

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Speaker 3: to help support what I do. And then one of

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Speaker 3: the benefits is that you get to watch these podcasts

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Speaker 3: ad free, every single one of them. So you can

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Speaker 3: go to the Veritas Daily dot com. You can also

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Speaker 3: go to Christian Alcoholic dot com as well if you'd

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Speaker 3: like to pick up my book, Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic. So,

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Speaker 3: without further ado, Sherry Hoppin. Sherry, thank you so much

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Speaker 3: for joining the Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic podcast. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I look forward to all of my guests. You know,

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Speaker 3: I don't want to take away from anyone, but I've

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Speaker 3: been really looking forward to this one. We've gotten to

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Speaker 3: know each other and just instantly connected and I am

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Speaker 3: had a chance to listen to your book over the weekend,

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Speaker 3: and oh my goodness, I am so excited for this conversation.

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Speaker 3: So thank you for coming.

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Speaker 1: Ah, thanks for having me, John, And I'm looking forward

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Speaker 1: to it too. We've had so many great conversations already,

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Speaker 1: and we share a lot of the same history, as

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Speaker 1: I guess that's a mild way.

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Speaker 2: To put it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I knew this was going to be a

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Speaker 1: great time together. And yeah, so I love what you're

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Speaker 1: doing and sharing with your audience. So yeah, let's do it.

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Speaker 3: So real quickly before we start. I mean, I did

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Speaker 3: an introduction before this, but just give kind of people

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Speaker 3: a little bit of who you are and what you

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Speaker 3: do there in Michigan.

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Speaker 2: Well today.

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Speaker 1: I am. I always say, first of all, I'm a

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Speaker 1: daughter of the king, and I have been married to

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Speaker 1: my high school sweetheart for forty one years, which makes

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Speaker 1: me sound really old, but I was really young when

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Speaker 1: I got married.

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Speaker 4: You were like twelve, you were a child.

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Speaker 1: Yes, exactly exactly, and he wasn't even in high school anymore,

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Speaker 1: so I don't know if you can say high school sweetheart.

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Speaker 1: So and that was trouble in the first place, because

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Speaker 1: I was supposed to date anybody out of high school.

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Speaker 1: So there in lies another story. But anyway, we have

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Speaker 1: three adult married children and three their spouses we adore,

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Speaker 1: and five grandchildren who are the focus of our lives.

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Speaker 1: We just adore them. I'm so happy to be a

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Speaker 1: sober grandma. That is one of my greatest joys in life.

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Speaker 1: And uh with my daughter in law, I run Sala

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Speaker 1: House Recovery here in West Michigan, and that is a

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Speaker 1: faith based thirty day in patient rehab program for women

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Speaker 1: that's been open about a year. I'm sure we'll talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit about how that evolved. And that's pretty

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Speaker 1: much me doing life. And I enjoy reading, biking, anything

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Speaker 1: to do with the West Michigan Beach, you know, a

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Speaker 1: couple of months out of the year and all things

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Speaker 1: in the winner to get away from Michigan.

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Speaker 3: But having grown up literally like almost exactly the opposite

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Speaker 3: side of Lake Michigan, I know exactly.

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Speaker 4: You get it.

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Speaker 2: You get it, so it can be a long winner.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, you said biking. So your book is Silver Cycle.

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Speaker 3: If you're watching this podcast at the Veritas Daily dot com,

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Speaker 3: I'm holding it up and I'm curious. My one question, uh,

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Speaker 3: to start off is do you still bike a lot?

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Speaker 3: Because the book centers around of, you know, basically a

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Speaker 3: handful of bike trips that you took across the country.

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Speaker 4: Do you still bike a lot?

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Speaker 1: I would say, there's a caveat there. So I love

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Speaker 1: to bike. Do I bike as intensely as what I

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Speaker 1: talk about in the book? No. I bike for pure

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Speaker 1: and enjoy I meant, And I don't rack up the

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Speaker 1: miles like I used to, especially the last couple of

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Speaker 1: years with getting Salehouse off the ground took over life

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Speaker 1: in a way I never expected. It's all good, but

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Speaker 1: sometimes it involves me riding my bike two and a

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Speaker 1: half miles to sale ahouse and back and I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: that was five miles I didn't count on today, But

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Speaker 1: that's all I'm gonna get ye, So, but yeah, Michigan

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Speaker 1: is full of wonderful trails. I don't like to ride

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Speaker 1: bike on the road as much anymore. Road biking has

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Speaker 1: become to me kind of dangerous. There's a lot of accidents,

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Speaker 1: but trail riding has become very primary as far as

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Speaker 1: development and things like that in Michigan, so I'm happy

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Speaker 1: about that. So we do make it kind of a

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Speaker 1: focus when we travel or go somewhere that we try

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Speaker 1: and find new trails.

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Speaker 2: So that's one of the things that we do do together.

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Speaker 3: Do you do you still have the infamous blue bike

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Speaker 3: from the book?

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Speaker 1: I do, And in fact, one of the women that

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Speaker 1: went through the sale house program said, we converted the

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Speaker 1: garage there into a gym, and she's like, sure, you

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Speaker 1: need to hang that on the wall up there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I said I would gladly do that because I

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Speaker 1: don't want to ride that bike anymore. So I honestly

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Speaker 1: do not enjoy riding the road bike anymore. I have

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Speaker 1: like a hybrid bike that I totally enjoy and I'll

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Speaker 1: ride with my grandson now and you know, things like that,

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Speaker 1: so it's totally different. But there was talk about, you know,

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Speaker 1: resurrecting a reunion ride or something like that, and even then,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but I will never ever part with

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Speaker 1: the blue bike.

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Speaker 3: I can tell you that it's good. Well, so if

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Speaker 3: you know, if you're listening to this and you don't

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Speaker 3: know what we're talking about. So in sober cycle, and

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Speaker 3: I'll set it up like this and then I want

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Speaker 3: you to get to your story. But in sober cycle

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Speaker 3: you talk about it kind of opens with your secretly

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Speaker 3: battling addiction, alcoholism, and you kind of get this prompting

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Speaker 3: to go on this right across the country, well, from

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Speaker 3: from Michigan down to where was the first one? The

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Speaker 3: first Galveston, Galvius.

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Speaker 1: Aliston, Right, yeah, Texas because.

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Speaker 3: The second one was Great Vine, which is like my

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Speaker 3: neck of the woods.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, I'm sorry. The first one was Great Vine,

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Speaker 2: the second one was Orlando.

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Speaker 4: Okay, there you go.

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Speaker 3: So so you get this this prompting and you're encouraged

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Speaker 3: to do this, and you know, you kind of wrestle,

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Speaker 3: and I think in a perfect world people are like, okay, Soversace.

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Speaker 3: So you you you go on this trip. It's twelve

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Speaker 3: days and you realize you're an alcoholic, and you come

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Speaker 3: back and everything is perfect and like life is neck

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Speaker 3: and now you're not an alcohol and that is not

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Speaker 3: at all. And that's part of the reason I love

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Speaker 3: this story is because not only did you not stay

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Speaker 3: sober after the first ride, you didn't say sober. After

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Speaker 3: the second ride, you didn't say sober. Like you kept

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Speaker 3: coming back to the alcohol, and each time you just

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Speaker 3: bury it deeper and deeper and more lies and more

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Speaker 3: lies and more lies. And I think it's something that

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Speaker 3: I can relate to, and I know it's something that

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Speaker 3: people listening can relate to. So tell us the story

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Speaker 3: of your slide into alcoholism, how it took over your life,

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Speaker 3: and then how you finally broke free.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would. As you're describing that, I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: that is the perfect description of stubborn surrender. So because

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Speaker 1: I tried everything but what I needed to do, and

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Speaker 1: I really thought that giving into this or doing this

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Speaker 1: bike ride, this fundraiser bike ride, was going to be

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Speaker 1: the thing that saved me, and definitely it wasn't. And

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Speaker 1: you know, they say God works in mysterious ways, and

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of things around that that I

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Speaker 1: look back in hindsight that were all things that were

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Speaker 1: part of the equation that got me on my knees

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Speaker 1: in total surrender. But it took a while. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: way back, looking back, alcohol was not a problem for

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Speaker 1: me growing up. I had a good childhood I grew

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Speaker 1: up in a small town Rode. I rode my bike

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Speaker 1: everywhere as a kid, because that's what you did, and

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Speaker 1: I mean you could. You could disappear for a whole

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Speaker 1: day and your parents were like, oh, she's back.

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Speaker 2: You know, yea, and street light on exactly exactly.

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Speaker 1: And I was that kid that rode my bike to

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Speaker 1: the library every Saturday, loaded up my backpack with books

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Speaker 1: and you know, was done with all of them by

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Speaker 1: Monday and started to reread.

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Speaker 2: And I was kind of a book nerd.

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Speaker 1: And I loved reading. I loved reading, but I loved

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Speaker 1: being outdoors too, So I had a good childhood. My

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Speaker 1: world was rocked quite a bit when I was fourteen

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Speaker 1: years old and my parents started talking about divorce. And

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Speaker 1: by the time I was sixteen, they were divorced, and

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Speaker 1: that was hard. I didn't know how bad things were,

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Speaker 1: and you don't have a comparison as a kid, I

257
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Speaker 1: did know. I was more comfortable at other people's houses.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't big on bringing the neighbor kids back to

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Speaker 1: my house. I went to their house and never really

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Speaker 1: had a why in my head for that, And in

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Speaker 1: doing that, my youngest daughter said something to me after

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Speaker 1: she read the book.

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Speaker 2: That makes so much sense to me now.

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Speaker 1: And she said, you know, mom, what every kid doesn't

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Speaker 1: realize and they most of them don't get to read

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Speaker 1: a book about it. But there is a backstory in

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Speaker 1: our parents' lives that most of us never have exposure to.

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Speaker 1: And I thought that was so interesting, because yeah, there

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Speaker 1: is a backstory going on. That is a kid you're

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Speaker 1: kind of oblivious to until you're not, and that's when

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Speaker 1: the hard stuff is. And around that time, when I

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Speaker 1: was about fifteen, I met my husband, Craig in the

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Speaker 1: total redneck way possible at the Hudsonville Fair and yes,

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Speaker 1: I know, and showing pigs, showing no.

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Speaker 2: He was, well, it gets better. He was my brother's

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Speaker 2: four age leader. Yeah, I know, you love that part.

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Speaker 1: I know. My brother was like, hey, you should meet him,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, my twelve year old brother is not

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Speaker 1: setting me up. Okay, that's like a whole new level.

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Speaker 1: And I thought he was too short to tell you

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Speaker 1: the truth, and hey, so nothing against Well it turns

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Speaker 1: out he had at least two inches on me, So

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Speaker 1: there's that. But you know, to say I knew he was,

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Speaker 1: I mean there was something right there and there and

285
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Speaker 1: I was fifteen and he was eighteen, fresh out of

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Speaker 1: high school, so I did have to lie that whole

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Speaker 1: first year we dated that he was in high school,

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Speaker 1: so that that did create a bit of a problem

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Speaker 1: when there was no graduation a year later, you know, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so my parents had to kind of grow to love

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Speaker 1: him later. But by the time I graduated from high school,

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Speaker 1: we were planning our wedding for the following February.

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Speaker 2: I wanted nothing more than the perfect family that I

294
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Speaker 2: had set up in my head. What happened to my

295
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Speaker 2: family was not going to happen to the family that

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Speaker 2: I had in mind, and I know that that's where

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Speaker 2: part of the fall happened later in my life when

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Speaker 2: things started to crumble.

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Speaker 1: For the most part or at the early years of

300
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Speaker 1: our marriage were really good. We had a boy and

301
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Speaker 1: a girl. We were turt poor, but we would fix

302
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Speaker 1: up the oldest camper, the ugliest camper in the world,

303
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Speaker 1: and we would hook that thing up behind this big

304
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Speaker 1: old car that we had, and we were doing life

305
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Speaker 1: with our kids, and.

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Speaker 2: We were doing good. But there was some background noise.

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Speaker 1: I can't really say what it was in my head,

308
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Speaker 1: but I know now looking back, I don't think we

309
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Speaker 1: were serving God like we should have. We both grew

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Speaker 1: up in the Christian home. But things were good, so

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Speaker 1: you just go along with it. You're going to church,

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Speaker 1: you're checking all the boxes.

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Speaker 2: We have.

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Speaker 1: I have a I had my young my oldest dad

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Speaker 1: twenty the second one at twenty two, and I am

316
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Speaker 1: done having children. We have a boy and a girl,

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Speaker 1: and you know, check, check, check, check, and we're doing life.

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Speaker 1: But when I was twenty eight, we had just moved

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Speaker 1: into a new house and life was really good. And

320
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Speaker 1: that is when my younger brother was killed suddenly in

321
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Speaker 1: a car accident with his best friend, and alcohol was involved.

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Speaker 1: And that that is something that nothing in life prepares

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Speaker 1: you for, any trauma like that. From one second to

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Speaker 1: the next, life is forever changed. And I had a

325
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Speaker 1: really hard time coming back from that. I didn't understand

326
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Speaker 1: why it seemed like everybody else was able to move

327
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Speaker 1: on in some way, and I stayed stuck. And I

328
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Speaker 1: wasn't sad. I was angry, and I think that cliche wise,

329
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Speaker 1: it would have been the perfect time to pick up drinking.

330
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Speaker 1: And while I didn't start drinking addictively, I know there

331
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Speaker 1: was a few times that when I drank. I got drunk,

332
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Speaker 1: but the Good Lord surprised us with a third baby,

333
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Speaker 1: And yes, I know how it works, but believe me,

334
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Speaker 1: she was a surprise, one of the I mean, the

335
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Speaker 1: total best surprise of our lives. But I believe that

336
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Speaker 1: definitely delayed alcoholism for me and put it off because

337
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Speaker 1: by the time she was seven or eight, things were

338
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Speaker 1: really setting in and everything that I had built up

339
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Speaker 1: in my mind was not going as planned. Teenagers start

340
00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:16,399
Speaker 1: talking back to you. We're building a business, money's tight,

341
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Speaker 1: we're fighting about money. I mean, And I just remember

342
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Speaker 1: kind of having that moment of I'm out and one

343
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Speaker 1: day just drinking early in the day, making a split

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Speaker 1: second decision to do so, and the rest of the day,

345
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Speaker 1: the rest of the evening kind of went better. Yeah,

346
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Speaker 1: and your brain goes that worked, yep. And then I

347
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Speaker 1: did it again, and I remember thinking, you can't do

348
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Speaker 1: this forever. And I thought, but for now, it's working, yep.

349
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Speaker 1: And what's working. Oh, it's just it's easier, and it's

350
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Speaker 1: easier meaning life. And pretty soon I just did it

351
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Speaker 1: for everything, and it would be years, years of drinking

352
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,719
Speaker 1: before any social event, not because I was nervous about it,

353
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Speaker 1: but because I simply didn't know how to do life

354
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Speaker 1: without alcohol at some point.

355
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Speaker 4: Yep.

356
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Speaker 1: And you know, those of you that have been through it,

357
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Speaker 1: you know exactly what I'm talking about. And I didn't

358
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Speaker 1: have social anxiety. I was a super social person. I

359
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 1: believe that if something was going to be fun, alcohol

360
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 1: could make it funner. If something was going to be boring,

361
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,520
Speaker 1: let's amp it up. And if something was going to

362
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 1: be hard, alcohol would help get through it all the things.

363
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 1: And of course there came to point where it was

364
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 1: taking over my life. I was, you know, getting confronted

365
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 1: with it by my husband and some close friends. When

366
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,239
Speaker 1: that happened, I just simply wrote off those friends, I

367
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,960
Speaker 1: have no use for you. No longer drinking socially because

368
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 1: people were calling me out on it, and so now

369
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,399
Speaker 1: I'm only drinking alone. And at the time, I was

370
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:12,200
Speaker 1: working for a pregnancy center, Christian nonprofit pregnancy center, and

371
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,840
Speaker 1: I had some really good people around me, and there

372
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Speaker 1: was one person there that did know what was going on,

373
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Speaker 1: a really close friend of mine. And there was a

374
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Speaker 1: day that there was a time where I wasn't there

375
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Speaker 1: for quite a while, and I'd kind of taken a

376
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Speaker 1: leave and I had worked there, both a staff and

377
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Speaker 1: a volunteer, so I kind of don't remember exactly. I

378
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 1: think I was on a volunteer basis and my husband

379
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 1: was out of town and I got a phone call.

380
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:43,719
Speaker 1: I'd been home for a couple of days, not drinking

381
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Speaker 1: because I promised him I went drink while he was gone,

382
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,639
Speaker 1: and for some reason I was listening that time. I

383
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,639
Speaker 1: didn't always do that, and they asked me to come

384
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 1: in and answer phones because they were so shorthanded, and

385
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:59,679
Speaker 1: so I did, and I took some messages up to

386
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:03,320
Speaker 1: the executive director during the day and he was a

387
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 1: pastor and I handed him the messages and said hi,

388
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 1: and he said.

389
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,680
Speaker 2: Hey, where have you been? You even't been around here?

390
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 1: And I just lost it and just kind of burst

391
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 1: into tears, which I didn't do. I had a guard,

392
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 1: you know, I had a guard. I was always the

393
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,119
Speaker 1: one that could, you know, kill him with sarcasm and

394
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:31,439
Speaker 1: jokes and deflect and everything else. And I started like

395
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 1: word voment, like you can't believe about my situation, you know,

396
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 1: I can't stop drinking. And I kind of quickly really

397
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: realized what was going, like you got to read this

398
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 1: in he can't know is vulnerable.

399
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,120
Speaker 2: No, no, what's going on here? So I turned it into.

400
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 1: I've been sober, not five days, five months, and you know,

401
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 1: started changing my story as I was telling.

402
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 2: It, and just that I'm doing better. I'm going to meetings.

403
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 1: You know, I've been to one, you know, like this

404
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 1: kind of thing and you know, lying lying to a

405
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: pastor so now I'm probably in even more trouble with God.

406
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: But you know, he just kind of looked at me

407
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 1: when I was done, and I'm thinking, just get it

408
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,199
Speaker 1: over with. You're gonna throw some scripture at me or

409
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 1: probably prey on me or tell me who to talk

410
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 1: to instead. I'll never forget it. He kind of leaned

411
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,919
Speaker 1: back in his chair and he said you need to

412
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,439
Speaker 1: do the Ride for Life. And I was like what

413
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 1: and I could no, and he goes, no, we need

414
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: more women. And I'm like, well, I'm not one of them.

415
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,360
Speaker 1: And I said thanks, and you know, I just got

416
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: out of there. So the Ride for Life was this fundraising.

417
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 1: He was a big biker. I was not. I had

418
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,400
Speaker 1: a camer at ten speed somewhere with coblebs on it

419
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 1: in the garage, probably still hooked up to the baby

420
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 1: burly bike thing. From when Yeah, my now twelve year

421
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: old daughter is when she was little, and I'm like,

422
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 1: in the throws of alcoholism, i am not in good

423
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 1: shape here. I am puffy, overweight, not athletic in any way,

424
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 1: never really have been in the first place. So it

425
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: was just the most bizarre thing anybody could have said

426
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 1: to me. So but this bike trip the previous year,

427
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,719
Speaker 1: he had just him and a bunch of guys had

428
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: gone like all out and just gotten on bikes and

429
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 1: rode to Baltimore where the convention was that for the organization,

430
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: and I thought it was the stupidest thing anybody could

431
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: ever do. I really did. I thought, why would they

432
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: do that? And this year he was organizing it to

433
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: where the conference was in Grapevine, Texas. Again I thought

434
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:57,640
Speaker 1: it was really stupid, and I would go home and

435
00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: for I don't know, like the next ten nights, i

436
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: would get woken up and.

437
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 2: I'm supposed to be having really good sleep because I'm

438
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 2: not drinking, which no fair.

439
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: I'm getting woken up every night and I'm like, I'd

440
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 1: wake up and I'd be like what, And I'd be

441
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: thinking about that bike trip, and I know it was

442
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: God because I would be like, why am I thinking

443
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 1: about that?

444
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 2: Absolutely not, absolutely not.

445
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 1: And about a week later, Krai came home and he

446
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 1: didn't ask me right away like.

447
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 2: He usually would, you know, like you did you drink

448
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 2: while I was gone? And I didn't say anything either.

449
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 1: But a couple of nights later we went out for

450
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 1: dinner so we could talk and he said, did you

451
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: drink while I was gone? And I said no, and

452
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: he said, huh, I believe you. And I said, well,

453
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 1: here's what happened. And I figured this is the part

454
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: where he's gonna give me an out, because I'm that

455
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: one with always big new ideas and he's usually the

456
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 1: one going okay, hold on, yea. And so I'm telling

457
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 1: him about this and he like interrupts me and he goes,

458
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 1: you got to do it, and I'm like, what, no way,

459
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 1: And he said, we were praying for something for you

460
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: that would rescue physically, emotionally, spiritually. He said, physically, han,

461
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 1: I can't think of anything we're challenging or better.

462
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 4: And he said.

463
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,959
Speaker 1: Spiritually, you're going to be with all these good Christian

464
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: people for two weeks. And he said emotionally, think of

465
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,959
Speaker 1: all the time away and just to think and you know,

466
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: get close to God. And I was like, I don't

467
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 1: have a chance. I don't have a chance. And long

468
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: story short, the next day, we're at this bike shop buying.

469
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 2: This bike with I don't even know how to I

470
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 2: don't even know how to shift.

471
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: I mean, seriously, it was so complicated and it was

472
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: ugly as far as I was concerned.

473
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 2: And then there's the uniform.

474
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 1: I've always said there's two sports, never ever ever having

475
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: seen the uniforms. One of them is swimming, No, and

476
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 1: the second one is biking. Have you seen the shorts? Nope.

477
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 2: Here I am stuffed into these shorts, you know.

478
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 1: And there's a part of the book where Craig tries

479
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 1: to take a picture and I said, you will never

480
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: see your children again if you ever take a picture

481
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 1: of me and the short and I mean, it was

482
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: so bad. And about fifty one days later I left

483
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: on that bike trip and I leave.

484
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 2: So hungover.

485
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: And so, I mean, I didn't drink much that summer

486
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 1: leading up to it, because I was terrified.

487
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 2: I trained.

488
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: I trained like someone I did not know, but I

489
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: was doing this and I was terrified of being left

490
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: behind or dragging everybody else behind. And you know, to

491
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: be clear, this was not a professional biking team. It

492
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: was kind of like the Sandlot of biking. But they

493
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: were a lot further along in the progress than what

494
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: I was, and they were really cool people and I

495
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: love them. I love all of them. And yeah, so,

496
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: but the first three days were rough, and I had

497
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: given into drinking a couple of days before we left,

498
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 1: and I was probably still a little bit drunk when

499
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: we left, because I d yeah, yeah.

500
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 3: Way, I guess this is is you mentioned this kind

501
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 3: of a couple of times of you know, so Craig

502
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 3: was he was asking me if you drank. Craig was asking,

503
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 3: you know, was saying, hey, we've been hoping for something

504
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 3: to kind of so what was how much did Craig

505
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 3: know and realize regarding your drinking, Like how much were

506
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 3: you were you hiding the full extent of it, like

507
00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 3: what was breaking through?

508
00:29:58,920 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 4: What was he seen?

509
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 3: And kind of what was he saying, We'll be right

510
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 3: back after this.

511
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 2: I'm he didn't know that I had drank right before

512
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 2: we laughed.

513
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: I would say, you know, as we've talked about it

514
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: over the years, seventy five percent of the time, like

515
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: that last two years, he would know when he walked.

516
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 2: He said he could tell when he walked in the

517
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 2: door by my eyes.

518
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 3: Since it's funny, it's exactly what my wife says, like,

519
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 3: especially especially towards the end, you know, she you know

520
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 3: what I call my severe slide period. She's like, I

521
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 3: need But but it sounds like and perhaps this is

522
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 3: the same. And you know, my wife was like, I

523
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 3: just needed you. You needed to come to the end

524
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 3: of yourself, like it had to be you.

525
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: And he kind of said, yeah, I'm he quit asking.

526
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So I mean, I just it sounded like

527
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 3: there was some similarity there. And I think for people listening,

528
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, there's there's many ways this can

529
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 3: cat but I think one of the most regular questions

530
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 3: I get is about, you know, what did your wife

531
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 3: do or what do I do for the person? And

532
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 3: it's hard and I'm not going to say there's no

533
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 3: there's a perfect answer. You know, our friend Caroline Buidler

534
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 3: is writing a book on this, but I can tell

535
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 3: you in my experience, and it sounds like and I

536
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 3: know from reading the book that and Sherry's and Craig's

537
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,239
Speaker 3: experience that it was you just had to let it

538
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 3: play out. Now that doesn't mean you don't put boundaries in.

539
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 3: I mean, Craig gave you an ultimatum later, you know,

540
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 3: after the infamous Christmas incident of two thousand and nine.

541
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 3: But but man, you know, at some point you just

542
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 3: have to you have to turn it over. And it's

543
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 3: like we had to come to the end of ourselves,

544
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 3: which as you're about to get to, you did.

545
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

546
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 2: Well, Craig would say to me, I could handle the drinking.

547
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: I could almost handle the drinking more than I can

548
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 1: handle the line. Oh yes, yep, And yeah, I know

549
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: your wife said the same thing, didn't she. And he said,

550
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: I didn't want to ask because I didn't want to

551
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: be lied to, So it was easier for him to

552
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: just be like a lot of times it was just

553
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: me and him, you know, at home. Our youngest was

554
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: the only one left at home, and you know, she

555
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: would be gone out of school thing or something. I timed.

556
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: I guarded her a lot more than I did Craig,

557
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 1: And there was a lot of times I know that

558
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: he was just like, screw it, I'm walking away and

559
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: you're gonna hurt you.

560
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 3: You hurt you.

561
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 2: I don't care anymore.

562
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: And I think he was setting up some self protection

563
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: in that, which is why I know I talk about

564
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: in the book like how we lieved. They must have

565
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: been that I was going for two weeks and someone

566
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: else's problem, you know, but it really did feel that

567
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: way that they must be relieved I'm off, you know,

568
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: especially him. Nobody has to you know, worry about it.

569
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: And for me being on that bike trip for two weeks.

570
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: After three days, I'm feeling good. Yeah, everybody else is

571
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:14,719
Speaker 1: kind of like starting to get beat up.

572
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 2: But I'm like, I'm not hungover anymore.

573
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm getting more energy and I have I'm

574
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: finding out that I can, I can be me whoever

575
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: that was with these people, and there was no temptation

576
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: to drink at all. There was an opportunity. It was

577
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: off my mind. It was totally removed. And I've never

578
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: hadn't experienced that in the years, and I was so

579
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: convicted I was never going to drink again. And I

580
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,479
Speaker 1: would just be like, thank you God, And you know,

581
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: I would the hills that were hard. I would literally

582
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: think about the because there was some really hard hills.

583
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 2: Believe me, Holy cow, I would.

584
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I'd be like really really got I remember

585
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: saying that Olah, really God, and then thinking did I

586
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: just yell that? You know, but there was I literally

587
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:09,840
Speaker 1: thought about like the horse and the carrot, you know,

588
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: like dangling the carrot, and I would think about, you know,

589
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: like sobriety, like I'm chasing sobriety here, and I don't

590
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: know what that looked like in my mind, but I

591
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: was just like crushing it. And I had no intention

592
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,720
Speaker 1: of coming home and within minutes driving to the liquor

593
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 1: store when I was alone, but I did it, and

594
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 1: I it's within minutes, and.

595
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 3: I think that is so I think that is so important,

596
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 3: like bring us to that, bring us to what happens

597
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 3: so you get back from the trip and in what

598
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 3: happens in your mind that leads you there.

599
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of it was I think a

600
00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 1: lot down. It's done. I remember we saw my on

601
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: somewhere on the way home at work. We stopped and

602
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 1: he was so proud of me, and you know, then

603
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,720
Speaker 1: Craig just assume like, hey, you're going to want unpacked.

604
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: I know you're probably whipped, and he left and then

605
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: I thought, well, that was a really cool experience and

606
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 1: it's done now and I am back in.

607
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,760
Speaker 2: The same situation. Nothing's changed.

608
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: I looking back, what if I'd had a plan, What

609
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 1: if I was on that bike trip? I said to

610
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 1: the one person that knew about all this, and she

611
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 1: was my roommate, you know, one of my best friends.

612
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 1: Yet today my friend Carolyn said, I said to her,

613
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 1: I'm scared to be alone when I get home. I'm

614
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: scared about what this looks like. But I'm in drank

615
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 1: for two weeks and I don't want to My biggest

616
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 1: thing that I always say to other women is need

617
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: to tell someone. What if I would have just said

618
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 1: that to Craig, don't leave me. I don't want to drink.

619
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: And from then I convinced myself for a long time

620
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: that I probably could never quit drinking after that, because

621
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,839
Speaker 1: my impulse was stronger than me. Yeah, I was like,

622
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: what if I can't quit drinking after that, it's lost.

623
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 3: Which is interesting because then it kind of starts this cycle. Right,

624
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 3: you go on this dis trip to I think two

625
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 3: more times, three more, three more times, it's kind of like, okay,

626
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 3: this is it, right, and yet you're still just kind

627
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 3: of white knuckling it and bring us, bring us then

628
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 3: to you know, I feel like kind of each time,

629
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 3: it seems to, in a way get worse and worse.

630
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 3: And so bring us to that Christmas of two thousand

631
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 3: and nine that you talk about in the book, because

632
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 3: I think it is such a day.

633
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 1: Christmas two thousand and nine actually happened before the first

634
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: spike ride.

635
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 4: Oh did it? Okay? Yeah, okay, And that.

636
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: Is where so much of the deception happened because I

637
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 1: told my whole family I'm quitting. I'm quitting because Christmas

638
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, I drank too much at our

639
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 1: family Christmas party and just I mean the one with

640
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 1: at my parents help my dad's house, with my sister

641
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: and where I'm in. You know, I'm an aunt, I'm

642
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,760
Speaker 1: a sister, mother, daughter. It was terrible. It was terrible,

643
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: and it's one of the most painful things to think about.

644
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:26,919
Speaker 1: We don't laugh. There's a lot of things we laugh about,

645
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 1: but that one we don't. And okay, maybe me and

646
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: Stephanie do because I took her shoes, but that's that's

647
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: a family jope.

648
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 2: Yet we can still we can laugh about that one

649
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:41,280
Speaker 2: a little bit. But anyway, actually it was my sister's shoes.

650
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: But anyway, you know, going back to that, so they

651
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: didn't know how bad it was.

652
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 2: And that's when I kind of fessed up. You know.

653
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 2: Craig said, no, it's bad. Your mom's got a drinking problem.

654
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: And I had to go around to each of them

655
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,919
Speaker 1: and say, it's I have a drinking problem, and I'm gonna,

656
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna, I'm gonna quit and we're gonna put this

657
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: behind us. But in my head, my head, this voice

658
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 1: is screaming, I don't know what to do. I can't quit,

659
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:18,280
Speaker 1: they're all saying, And I thought, fine, I'm just gonna

660
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 1: like let this die down, so they all quit making

661
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: me the focus.

662
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, I need to

663
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 2: become better at hiding it.

664
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just that's all I knew.

665
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just need to get better at this. Yeah,

666
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what I did. So by the time,

667
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: so that first bike trip was in twenty ten, By then,

668
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,359
Speaker 1: all I'm doing is hiding my drinking. Yeah, And that's

669
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 1: what I would do for the next three years till

670
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: November of twenty and thirteen.

671
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 3: And so what was different then, you know what what

672
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 3: happened November twenty thirteen to really kind of because I

673
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 3: just think, man, it's one of the one of the

674
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,359
Speaker 3: reasons I resonated. So the book, I mean, there's there's

675
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 3: these scenes where you're just like you're drinking in the closet,

676
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 3: and for me, that's the garage, right, you know. And

677
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 3: I mean I remember at one point I was like, oh,

678
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 3: I'm just doing non alcoholic beers. I would buy non

679
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 3: alcoholic beer, and some of this I just I'd kind

680
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 3: of forgotten about it. I would pour out the non

681
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 3: alcoholic beer. I'd buy regular beer and pour it into

682
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:24,879
Speaker 3: the non alcoholic containers.

683
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 4: And then that way.

684
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 3: When it looked like I was drinking in a beer,

685
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 3: I was.

686
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 2: Drinking regular beer. And then you get a view in

687
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 2: your breath and nobody would know.

688
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 4: Right, it's just tens to select, you know. And I'm like,

689
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:40,919
Speaker 4: the deception just runs deep.

690
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 1: So and the alcoholic in me right now is thinking,

691
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: genius John. But we didn't have I didn't I didn't

692
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: have non alcoholic beer because that wasn't a thing ten

693
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: years ago.

694
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,240
Speaker 2: And I'm like, dang it, that was good.

695
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 3: But yeah, right, no, no, So, because you have these

696
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 3: and it's like I'm done, I'm done, I'm done. And

697
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,240
Speaker 3: sometimes I said I'm done, and then I'm done lasted

698
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 3: till five o'clock that night.

699
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and aren't addicts.

700
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 3: They don't understand that.

701
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 4: But your result.

702
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 3: I was so strong at ten in the morning and

703
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 3: then by five o'clock it's just gone.

704
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 1: I used to think to myself, lock me up, just

705
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 1: lock me up, so I can get through that.

706
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 2: And I don't. I can't.

707
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 1: I don't know how except for the fact that I mean,

708
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 1: it was God, totally God, but there was. I had

709
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 1: six months once and I had nine months once. But

710
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: through each of those periods, in my head, I knew

711
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 1: I wasn't done drinking. I knew I was gonna drink again.

712
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: I just didn't know when. And I was like, let's

713
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: just do this one more day. And it was kind

714
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,319
Speaker 1: of like I can't be done because I didn't say

715
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 1: I was done done. I'm gonna drink one more time.

716
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 1: And each time I did go back, you know, then

717
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: it would be another year. And it wasn't you know,

718
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:04,919
Speaker 1: one drink or a couple for a couple of days

719
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 1: before I got, you know, sober again. So but that

720
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: last time I planned to drink all weekend. I was

721
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: gonna have the house to myself. It's hunting season and

722
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 1: my husband no longer tried to protect his schedule around

723
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 1: my Drinking's like I'm leaving for the weekend. It's hunting season.

724
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 1: And he used to worry, and now he's like, you

725
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: do you And he might have thought, you know, she's

726
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: probably gonna drink. He didn't say, promise me you won't drink.

727
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: We weren't at a good place at all. Our marriage

728
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: was I would say, about as clothes to over, as

729
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 1: far as a relationship is what it was going to get.

730
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 4: Did you think it was like or in the delusion?

731
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 2: You know, in my head, I was like, he's not

732
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:52,839
Speaker 2: gonna leave.

733
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 1: I mean honestly, in almost like a bitchy way, like

734
00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: he's not gonna leave. But he was really close. I

735
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 1: didn't realize how close until later. But we had always agreed.

736
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 1: Divorce was so hard on me that I said, we

737
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: had an agreement. You cheat on me, you're out, doesn't

738
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 1: matter who like that's it. Don't expect me to get

739
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 1: over that. And he felt the same way. That's the

740
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 1: only reason we would ever consider divorce. And so to me,

741
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 1: I thought, well, as long as I mean, he's not

742
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 1: going to divorce me, excuse me. And I thought I

743
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 1: could just you know, like he's not going anywhere. So

744
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: in my mind too, that meant nobody's going to know

745
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 1: because he's still here. M h. And so I was

746
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 1: going to be alone all weekend and set up for

747
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,280
Speaker 1: the perfect weekend of drinking.

748
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:56,879
Speaker 2: And I drank on Friday.

749
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 3: Night, which, by the way, I remember those times right,

750
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 3: like my wife would go out of town or you know,

751
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 3: take the kids to parents' place for fun or something,

752
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 3: and I'd.

753
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:09,399
Speaker 1: Be like, oh, yeah.

754
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 4: You know, I mean, why was that fun? I know?

755
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 3: And again, like I wasn't a party drinker. I wasn't

756
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 3: gonna go out. It was like, you know, so I'm like,

757
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 3: I'm not hurting anyone. I'm not gonna go drink drunk.

758
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna sit at home for three days and

759
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 3: drink like.

760
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 4: There's nothing wrong with that. I'm gonna enjoy it. It's fine.

761
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, then why And now I think about all the

762
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,479
Speaker 1: things I love to do. The weekend is never long

763
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 1: enough for me to get in all the things I

764
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 1: love to do, but just to sit around and be wasted, yeah,

765
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: I mean it just baggles my mic. But anyway, Yeah,

766
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 1: so that's what I did. But things were not going well.

767
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: I couldn't seem to get drunk or pass out like

768
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 1: I usually did. I felt sick, I was waking I

769
00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:00,879
Speaker 1: was passing out, waking out, trying to drink more. And

770
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 1: by Saturday morning, I knew something was wrong, and I

771
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 1: talk about it a lot, I'm pretty carefully in the book.

772
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: And I panicked and I actually I called a girlfriend

773
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 1: and it was someone that had not been very nice

774
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:16,479
Speaker 1: to you for a long time.

775
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 2: She came right over and I was scared to death.

776
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 1: I know now I had alcohol poisoning, and I was

777
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 1: trying to drink and throwing up, and here, you know,

778
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:34,240
Speaker 1: still trying to drink, still trying to get this alcohol

779
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 1: in me. She stayed with me all day till nighttime,

780
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 1: till it was about close to my daughter coming home,

781
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: and I promised her I wouldn't drink.

782
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:53,320
Speaker 2: She left, and I was terrified about detaxing. I knew

783
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 2: how dangerous that was.

784
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 1: I went and got some more vodka to have to,

785
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 1: you know, drink slowly if I needed it, which I

786
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 1: did over the next couple of days. And she had

787
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 1: made me promise to tell Craig what had happened or

788
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:17,800
Speaker 1: they she was going to and so a couple of

789
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 1: days later, I told Craig. I tried to write him

790
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 1: a letter, and I mean it was a lot kind

791
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 1: of a it's kind of a long soap opera of

792
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 1: how I tried to tell him, and.

793
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 2: He was so upset. It was so different than any

794
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:33,760
Speaker 2: other time.

795
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 1: And he realized, you know, he's like he could have died,

796
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:45,799
Speaker 1: and like, this is what we've come to. And I

797
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 1: was terrified he was going to make me go to rehab.

798
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 1: There wasn't one rehab I could think of that I

799
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 1: could go to, or I would go to, and then

800
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,919
Speaker 1: everybody would know, you know, that whole thing. The kids

801
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 1: would know I'd been lying for three years and.

802
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 3: Because they thought you sober for the previous three.

803
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: Years, yes, And and you know that all came out later,

804
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: you know, you announce your sober date and they look

805
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: at you like wait what wa Yeah, yeah, and it happen.

806
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 2: And all those times that they were like, was mom drinking?

807
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 1: No, now they were like, great, you've been just you've

808
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 1: been lying to us too, you know. So it was

809
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 1: so much hurt around that. But after some thought, he

810
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 1: said to me, you have two options. You can, if

811
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 1: you ever drink again, you agree to go to rehab.

812
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 1: And if you agree, if you don't agree to go

813
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 1: to rehab, I'm leaving you. And I said okay. And

814
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: this was at the end of the day that I

815
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:57,719
Speaker 1: had spent at home trying to figure out how to

816
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: talk to him. And I talked to God and I

817
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: found myself at some point on my knees on my

818
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 1: living room floor, crying my eyes out, and I said,

819
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 1: I surrender this. God, I don't want this. And I

820
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:21,760
Speaker 1: had said that before, but this time it felt different.

821
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:26,760
Speaker 1: And I don't know why in the moment it did,

822
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 1: except for the fact that I added a line that

823
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 1: I'd never said before, and I said, I will do

824
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 1: whatever you want me to. And before that, I said,

825
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 1: I surrender, and here's what it looks like. Nobody will know,

826
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 1: or I'll just drink beer, or just let me go

827
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 1: back to being a social drinker, you know. Not in

828
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:53,839
Speaker 1: the moments, I wasn't that caddie, but you know, I

829
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 1: wasn't sincere about my surrender. But I said, God, I

830
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:03,360
Speaker 1: don't take this from me. And I went over, you know,

831
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 1: I got up, and it was it was almost like

832
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 1: being in a like someone took my hand and led

833
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 1: me into the kitchen.

834
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 2: And I poured that vaca down the stink and I cannot.

835
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 5: Tell you, you know, you think of the most futureid

836
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 5: smell that you could, you know, like dead animal or

837
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 5: some I'll never forget how bad that smelled, and vaka

838
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 5: just has a smell to it, you know.

839
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 1: But it was awful and I was gone and it

840
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 1: was done. And usually when you pour away your alcohol,

841
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 1: you have that moment going, oh, crap.

842
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 2: Why did I do that?

843
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 1: Yeah?

844
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 4: Can I lick that back up?

845
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:44,879
Speaker 1: Yeah?

846
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 2: Or can I can always get more?

847
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 1: I can always get more.

848
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

849
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 1: I knew then, right then and there that alcohol would

850
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:53,799
Speaker 1: never ever be an option for me again. And I

851
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 1: didn't understand it. I was scared to death because I

852
00:48:58,120 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 1: didn't know how I was.

853
00:48:59,280 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 4: I hadn't.

854
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,320
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, I just kind of sat in the

855
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:04,439
Speaker 1: chair of the rest of the day just going, God,

856
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to show me. I'm I don't even

857
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 1: know how to tell Craig this because he's going to

858
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:12,799
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, right, heard this before, which was kind

859
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: of where he was when I told him this. And

860
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,280
Speaker 1: I told him the whole story about what had happened

861
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 1: over the weekend, and then I said, but today I

862
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 1: had this experience is God experience And I saw his

863
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 1: face it was kind of like yeah, yeah, yeah, and

864
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 1: he walked away from me, and eventually yeah, I went

865
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:36,319
Speaker 1: and I went in the kitchen and he was kind

866
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 1: of just had his head on the counter and he

867
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 1: looked at me and he had tears in his eyes.

868
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 1: Said that's such you know, I can't do this anymore,

869
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 1: and here's your options. So those options weren't given to

870
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 1: me as the reason I quit drinking. It was just

871
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 1: the end of the road. And I said, thank goodness,

872
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 1: you'll never ever have to present that ultimatum to me

873
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: because I'm done. And he still looked at me, you know,

874
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 1: like yeah, okay, And I said you should you should

875
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:13,359
Speaker 1: buy a breathalyzer.

876
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 2: Mmmm, I said, because I don't ever want you to

877
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 2: question it.

878
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 1: And it was years later before I would say to them,

879
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:22,840
Speaker 1: did you ever buy a breathalyzer? And he said no,

880
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 1: because I said, you should buy it, but you'll never

881
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:28,239
Speaker 1: have to use it. And he never did that. Yeah,

882
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 1: he never bought one.

883
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 3: But by the.

884
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 2: Way, I was.

885
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 3: I bought a breathalyzer at one point, but I used

886
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 3: to keep it to check if I was good enough

887
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:42,879
Speaker 3: to go somewhere. Seriously, seriously, I had this mini breath

888
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 3: line and I think it was you know, it was

889
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 3: from you know, China, so it was probably inaccurate, you know, awes. Yeah,

890
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 3: it said I'm fine, but you know what you said there,

891
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 3: I think is important because if you're listening to this

892
00:50:57,440 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 3: and you know you have to have that conversation, or

893
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:03,799
Speaker 3: maybe you had that conversation with your spouse. I just

894
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 3: want to be clear that like if or when they

895
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 3: react the way that Craig reacted which is the way

896
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 3: that my wife reacted as well, they've earned that. They've

897
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 3: earned that right to react that way. And what I

898
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:23,479
Speaker 3: mean is that, like, listen, we've broken trust so many

899
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 3: times that the approach that Craig took, the approach that

900
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 3: Brett my wife took, was you're gonna have to prove it.

901
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 3: I want to believe you, but until you show me,

902
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 3: I have nothing to go on, right And I think

903
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 3: sometimes there are people who are here that and I

904
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 3: know people who have that.

905
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 4: Well, I can't believe it.

906
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 3: You know, man, I'm pouring out my soul to you

907
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 3: right now, and that's the reaction I get. And then

908
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 3: they go drink you know, Yeah, and it's like, guys, no, Like,

909
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 3: there are consequences for our actions, and one of the

910
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 3: consequences is that we have to build up trust.

911
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 4: I'm still building up trust.

912
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 3: I'm almost three years into the I'm still building across cherry.

913
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 4: You know. Yes, like the reality we'll be right back

914
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 4: after this.

915
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 1: I say that to women a lot when they're leaving

916
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:16,280
Speaker 1: the program at Sala House, Like you can tell people

917
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:20,439
Speaker 1: all you want, you can say it, you can talk

918
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 1: up a storm about how you've changed, but that doesn't matter.

919
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 1: They need to see the change and observe it and

920
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 1: see it be continual. Yes, we're gonna screw up, but

921
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 1: our screw up isn't gonna be from drinking. Our screw

922
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 1: up is just going to because we're human. We're gonna

923
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:41,319
Speaker 1: have days where we're angrier. We're gonna have days where

924
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 1: we're say or do the wrong thing. I said, But

925
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 1: that's called sin, or that's called temperament. It's not all because,

926
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 1: you know, and I remember saying this to Craig once.

927
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:54,760
Speaker 1: You know, not everything is because I want to drink.

928
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm just having a bad day, you know, Or

929
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 1: sometimes you just make me mad, which to this day

930
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 1: it still makes me mad sometimes, you know, or we

931
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:09,719
Speaker 1: still study each other off, you know, and everybody that

932
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 1: knows Craig is like, he doesn't set her off, she

933
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 1: sets him off.

934
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 2: You know.

935
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 1: But yeah, he's a very quiet, you know, he's a

936
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:16,719
Speaker 1: very even keel guy.

937
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 3: But exactly with my wife, we're married to the same person. Yeah,

938
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 3: it makes sense because if you and I are the

939
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:23,720
Speaker 3: same person.

940
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:27,920
Speaker 1: Yes, it's always there's always you know, it's a balance.

941
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 1: But you know, I said, we have to show other

942
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 1: people who Jesus is. That's our job here, simple. Yeah,

943
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 1: And we're not showing people who Jesus is when we're drunk.

944
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:44,799
Speaker 1: So just live the life that Jesus is asking you

945
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:48,400
Speaker 1: to live. Do your best, and that's what people are

946
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:49,879
Speaker 1: going to see, and that's what they're going to honor,

947
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 1: and that's what they're going to start to trust. But

948
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 1: don't try and fake it because people will see you

949
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 1: right through it.

950
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 3: So you know your story here, you know, the beginning

951
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:07,440
Speaker 3: of really the change happens when you fully surrender to Jesus.

952
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 3: And so you and I have talked a lot about this.

953
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:13,760
Speaker 3: We are you know, in a camp that I would

954
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 3: say is gospel centered recovery and so explain. You know,

955
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 3: when you talk to women who have maybe been where

956
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 3: you are, or maybe you have tried traditional or secular programs,

957
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:33,399
Speaker 3: what does it look like and in your experience, why

958
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:37,799
Speaker 3: is it in a sense more effective to take a

959
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:40,360
Speaker 3: gospel centered approach versus a secular approach?

960
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 2: Well, where to start with that one?

961
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:48,359
Speaker 4: Just a good question with ten minutes left?

962
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, I guess.

963
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:56,800
Speaker 1: The answer to that to me is really simple, because

964
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 1: I believe that there's a lot of secular tools that

965
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 1: are really good ones here for us, and they're valuable.

966
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:05,879
Speaker 4: Yeah.

967
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 1: The mistake that many of us make when we're trying

968
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 1: to sober up or whatever the substance is, or whatever

969
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:18,440
Speaker 1: the addiction is, you know, to a habit or whatever is,

970
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 1: we start with searching for every other tool other than

971
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 1: relying on God. And that's what I did. I'm like,

972
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:31,239
Speaker 1: I'll do another bike ride, I'll train more, I'll go

973
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:34,759
Speaker 1: to a meeting. What's so and so on Instagram? I'm

974
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,799
Speaker 1: saying to do you know, I'll do another you know,

975
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 1: I'll give this up. I mean I was famous for

976
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 1: doing like setting up a health journey and along with that,

977
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:46,879
Speaker 1: then alcohol is gonna go away.

978
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:47,840
Speaker 2: Well, that never worked.

979
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 1: But you.

980
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,160
Speaker 3: Even by the way, Sherry, and I think, you know,

981
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:54,799
Speaker 3: we don't have time to fully into this, but you

982
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 3: were even on medication.

983
00:55:56,200 --> 00:56:00,040
Speaker 2: You were on antibuse right, which yes, which made.

984
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:03,880
Speaker 3: You allergic if you will, to alcohol, and you still

985
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 3: found ways around it, like.

986
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:08,240
Speaker 4: You still cheated the system.

987
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 3: Like you were literally taking medication that if you drink

988
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 3: it would make you sick, and you still were drinking

989
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 3: and still hiding it and all the stuff.

990
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:18,799
Speaker 1: Yep, I figured out how to not drink Monday through

991
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 1: Thursday and when to stop taking it so I could

992
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 1: drink by Friday if I was gonna be alone on

993
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 1: the weekend.

994
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 2: It was just it's I mean, it just consumes you.

995
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:29,719
Speaker 3: Yeah.

996
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:33,880
Speaker 1: But here's the thing, and this is my why for

997
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 1: what I do today. Start with Jesus. Start with faith,

998
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 1: Start with the sweet surrender of giving it to Him

999
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:52,839
Speaker 1: and saying, God help me. Start there, and then make

1000
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 1: the other things a supplement, yes, not.

1001
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 2: The main thing. Yes, make him the main thing.

1002
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:00,760
Speaker 4: Sale house.

1003
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:04,319
Speaker 1: You know, we we teach you know a program I

1004
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:07,360
Speaker 1: wrote about the fruit of the Spirit, and it's not complicated.

1005
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:13,400
Speaker 1: Let's learn to walk in the fruit of the spirit. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness,

1006
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 1: all the things. Let's that's who Jesus calls us to be. Yeah,

1007
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:22,000
Speaker 1: and in that, yes, we're learning about sobriety and I

1008
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:25,560
Speaker 1: know you say it a lot too, find Jesus find sobriety, Yes,

1009
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 1: because that that comes naturally. And do we we still

1010
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 1: go to you know, we still introduce them to AA

1011
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 1: Bridge for Life, celebrate recovery because we believe those are

1012
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 1: all important things. And there's community there because not everybody

1013
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:43,240
Speaker 1: you know is local and has access to coming to

1014
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 1: sale house for that community. We do a lot virtually,

1015
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 1: but you need to be grounded in the word and

1016
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 1: in what and who Jesus tells you you are and

1017
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 1: he says you are royalty and you don't need to

1018
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 1: live like that.

1019
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 3: And can I ask you a quick follow up on

1020
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:08,960
Speaker 3: that is yes, what do you say to people who say, well, Sherry,

1021
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 3: I mean I listened to your story. You were shooting,

1022
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 3: you were shooting for Jesus, you were a Christian, you

1023
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:19,120
Speaker 3: were shooting for Jesus, but you weren't getting recovery. What

1024
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 3: do you say to those people? Like?

1025
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 4: What is different? You know what I mean?

1026
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 3: Like, because I've had people ask me that, well, John,

1027
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:29,720
Speaker 3: you were you were a Christian, you were going to church,

1028
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 3: you were doing discipleship stuff. So you what do you

1029
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:36,120
Speaker 3: mean like it didn't seem to work.

1030
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:39,520
Speaker 1: What do you say to this, Well, I was doing

1031
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 1: everything that I mean. I was the I led children's choir.

1032
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 1: I mean, we did a couple's club. I mean we

1033
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:49,360
Speaker 1: did all the things. I went through all the motions

1034
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 1: that said good Christian girl. But I did not have

1035
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 1: a relationship with the Lord. I went to church sometimes

1036
00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:02,200
Speaker 1: twice on Sunday. I checked all the boxes. But did

1037
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 1: I know what it was like to sit in the

1038
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 1: quiet in the morning and set up my day with God?

1039
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 1: Did I know what it was like to be listening

1040
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 1: to his song, a worship song on the radio and

1041
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 1: be overcome with tears because it just spoke to me. Now,

1042
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:22,360
Speaker 1: I discovered what it was like to have a true

1043
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:27,440
Speaker 1: relationship with Him, and that's where the difference was. Yes,

1044
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 1: And that's what made all the difference in the world.

1045
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,520
Speaker 1: You can do all the things, check every single box.

1046
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 1: You can go to church ten times a week. I

1047
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 1: don't care if you don't have that relationship with him.

1048
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 1: It's a lost cause.

1049
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 3: That's what I say in my book. Right is I

1050
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:46,920
Speaker 3: had lacked, I had gone. What had gone by the

1051
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:52,440
Speaker 3: wayside was an experiential relationship with Jesus, not experientialism, not

1052
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 3: just conjuring up emotions and whatnot. I'm saying, an experiential,

1053
00:59:56,840 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 3: abiding relationship with Jesus, where you're fully surrendered to him.

1054
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 3: That's the difference. I think that's the difference. What you

1055
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 3: outline to us in your story is you finally got

1056
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:09,919
Speaker 3: inside whatever, whatever you want, whatever you tell me to do, right,

1057
01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 3: you know. And so sometimes I clarify and I say,

1058
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 3: it's if if you aim for Jesus and follow.

1059
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 4: Him in the way that he tells.

1060
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:25,160
Speaker 3: Us too, right, which is fully surrendered, seek first the

1061
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:26,800
Speaker 3: Kingdom of God, and all these things will be added

1062
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 3: unto you. Right. And all these things, by the way

1063
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 3: that he's talking about there in Matthew is like fooding clothes. Right.

1064
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:35,840
Speaker 3: It's not like you know, other stuff that you want.

1065
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:39,680
Speaker 3: It's like the basics and the necessities. Right. So literally

1066
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 3: following him in the way that he has called us

1067
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 3: in outlines in the scriptures to follow him. Yes, And

1068
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:49,400
Speaker 3: if you're in if and so maybe you're going to church.

1069
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 4: Maybe I was. I was leading small group.

1070
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:55,440
Speaker 3: Sherry and I would, I would get buzzed before small group,

1071
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 3: and I'd convinced myself, well, that makes me a better

1072
01:00:57,320 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 3: small group leader.

1073
01:00:58,240 --> 01:00:59,800
Speaker 4: You know I can do Amen.

1074
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 2: I'm so glad you said that because I was, Yeah,

1075
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 2: that happened once, you know.

1076
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:08,840
Speaker 3: So it's it's it's being fully surrendered and living. You know,

1077
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:11,800
Speaker 3: my pastor says it like leaving in God's world, God's

1078
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 3: way right now?

1079
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:17,040
Speaker 4: Will we do that perfectly? Like no, it's always going

1080
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:17,760
Speaker 4: to be a struggle.

1081
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 3: But you and I know that there was a point

1082
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:24,320
Speaker 3: of complete surrender where the pit, where the tables, it

1083
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 3: finally tilted and it finally shifted in our spirit, the

1084
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:30,600
Speaker 3: moment of complete surrender. What it looks like for me?

1085
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:33,760
Speaker 3: Might it looked different than Sherry, right? But I think

1086
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:36,240
Speaker 3: our point is you gotta get to that point and

1087
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:37,800
Speaker 3: that's what makes the difference, right.

1088
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:42,520
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and that it's it's accessible for everyone.

1089
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:43,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1090
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:46,160
Speaker 2: And I think that as a Christian.

1091
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:50,240
Speaker 1: We fall harder because I always think that, you know,

1092
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:52,840
Speaker 1: there's I had more shame, like the shouldn't we have

1093
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:55,360
Speaker 1: known better? Or someone's gonna say to me, where was

1094
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 1: your God done that whole time? But on the other

1095
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:03,400
Speaker 1: side of it, we have access to this beautiful life

1096
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:06,040
Speaker 1: that he's calling us to, and on the other side

1097
01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:08,520
Speaker 1: of it, there's work to be done. My life versu

1098
01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 1: Is Ephesians three twenty. He has more plan than you

1099
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 1: will ever ask or imagine. And I keep thinking, oh,

1100
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:17,520
Speaker 1: there it is. There's that you know, there's more than

1101
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:20,200
Speaker 1: I ever asked her imagine. But it keeps happening. Yeah,

1102
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:24,200
Speaker 1: it keeps happening. It's so much better, so much better.

1103
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:29,000
Speaker 3: Sherry, thank you so much for joining today. You've become

1104
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 3: a good friend. I'm going to be joining you at

1105
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:37,240
Speaker 3: your conference this fall. Yes, I'm excited to be. I

1106
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:40,120
Speaker 3: don't know, am I speaking I think?

1107
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 1: Or I mean, okay, we're doing all the things, John,

1108
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:48,600
Speaker 1: So you might be the most prominent male figure there

1109
01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 1: at the time.

1110
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 4: Big joke that I'm gonna be with my wife.

1111
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:54,480
Speaker 3: My wife jokes that I have like like middle aged

1112
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:56,360
Speaker 3: women that I hang out with, and I'm like, yeah,

1113
01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:59,200
Speaker 3: that's it's true. And part of that is, like why

1114
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:02,600
Speaker 3: I feel called right is like there there there are

1115
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:07,040
Speaker 3: some great powerhouse women like you and Christine and all

1116
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:14,360
Speaker 3: these people in this space, and yet men have been quiet,

1117
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:17,320
Speaker 3: and so I'm excited to carry that torch into a

1118
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:21,320
Speaker 3: room full of women's.

1119
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:24,160
Speaker 1: And this is a club that four years ago for you,

1120
01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:27,200
Speaker 1: maybe thirteen years ago for me, I would have been like, uh,

1121
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:30,400
Speaker 1: I don't want that club, you know, thanks, And now

1122
01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:33,280
Speaker 1: I'm just like, I'm so excited to be a part

1123
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:34,360
Speaker 1: of it, an honored.

1124
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:35,640
Speaker 2: To be a part of it with you because these

1125
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 2: are the people.

1126
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:40,280
Speaker 3: These are you know, I can talk our friend Christy.

1127
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:43,560
Speaker 3: You know, it's like I'd like FaceTime for yesterday. I

1128
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:44,760
Speaker 3: was like, can you believe this?

1129
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:48,439
Speaker 4: You know, because we can be real with each other.

1130
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 4: It's just great, so good.

1131
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:53,200
Speaker 3: If people want to get the book, if they want

1132
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 3: to find out more about sela House, where can they go? Sherry?

1133
01:03:56,720 --> 01:03:56,960
Speaker 2: You know?

1134
01:03:57,160 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 1: So there she surrenders dot com, which is the mentry

1135
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:03,680
Speaker 1: I started a couple of years into my sobriety still going,

1136
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:10,120
Speaker 1: and that's on Instagram, Facebook, Salehouse Recovery dot org g

1137
01:04:11,240 --> 01:04:14,160
Speaker 1: is where all things salehouse are, including a great video

1138
01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:17,840
Speaker 1: about who we are so recycle peddling through recovery one

1139
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:20,959
Speaker 1: day at a time. Every place you get books and

1140
01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 1: you'll probably include all those links.

1141
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 3: So I will, I will, yeah, all the things and

1142
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:29,360
Speaker 3: if you are learning, if you're a woman, that's looking

1143
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:33,120
Speaker 3: for a place to go, I can no matter where

1144
01:04:33,200 --> 01:04:36,200
Speaker 3: you are, Like, Salehouse is not just for the people

1145
01:04:36,320 --> 01:04:39,680
Speaker 3: in that you know, kind of Grand Rapids Holland area, right,

1146
01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:43,000
Speaker 3: Like right, I think a lot of times it's really

1147
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 3: good to get out of your bubble, to get away.

1148
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 3: And you know, maybe you don't want to go in

1149
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:50,320
Speaker 3: the dead of winter, but I can tell you that

1150
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:56,120
Speaker 3: summertime on Lake Michigan is the most uh one of

1151
01:04:56,120 --> 01:04:58,880
Speaker 3: the most magical things that you can experience. So if

1152
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:01,520
Speaker 3: you're looking for a place to get to get away

1153
01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:05,920
Speaker 3: and to reset and to actually experience Jesus, shoot for

1154
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 3: shoot for Jesus and gets sobready thrown in, I recommend

1155
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:11,640
Speaker 3: Sale the House. Sherry, Thank you so much, appreciate you.

1156
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:13,720
Speaker 1: Thank you, John Same.

1157
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:18,920
Speaker 3: There are plenty of things I love about Sherry, but

1158
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:21,400
Speaker 3: the fact that how real she is, right, She's real,

1159
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:23,800
Speaker 3: she's raw, she's relatable, right, I mean, that's that's what

1160
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:26,760
Speaker 3: this podcast is all about. And maybe she also sounds

1161
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 3: a little bit like my sister or my mom with

1162
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:34,560
Speaker 3: that Midwest accent, and so I just really love talking

1163
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:38,240
Speaker 3: with her and I'm grateful for her vulnerability and you

1164
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:41,920
Speaker 3: get more of that even in Sober Cycle the book,

1165
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:47,920
Speaker 3: but I think that came through today. And so if

1166
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:51,440
Speaker 3: there is just one thing that resonated with you in

1167
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:53,480
Speaker 3: this podcast, please.

1168
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 4: Share it.

1169
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 3: You can like subscribe and do all that stuff, but

1170
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:00,720
Speaker 3: please share it, Share it with one per share it

1171
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:04,200
Speaker 3: on your social media or wherever. If there is just

1172
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:07,680
Speaker 3: twenty seconds of something that resonated, because that gets the

1173
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:09,680
Speaker 3: word out. Not about the podcast. I don't care about

1174
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:12,720
Speaker 3: the downloads. I don't care about the podcast growing. I

1175
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:17,200
Speaker 3: care about the message of hope that is baked into

1176
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:22,960
Speaker 3: every single episode and every single story. Thanks as always

1177
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 3: to our partner life audiolifeaudio dot com to listen to

1178
01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:30,080
Speaker 3: some other great podcasts. Love you all, will see you

1179
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:31,560
Speaker 3: here next week.