1
00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:03,680
Speaker 1: Life audio.

2
00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:08,960
Speaker 2: When you can't give clear, concise communication, sometimes it's on purpose.

3
00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:11,879
Speaker 2: It's because I don't want to be held accountable for

4
00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:12,840
Speaker 2: what I say.

5
00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,759
Speaker 1: What's up, guys, and welcome to the March or Die Podcast.

6
00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:19,720
Speaker 1: This is the show where we do our best to

7
00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:23,000
Speaker 1: give you the principles and perspectives to march when it'd

8
00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,960
Speaker 1: be easier to stay where you are and die. Today.

9
00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,240
Speaker 1: Super excited about the episode. Before we get started, though,

10
00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,160
Speaker 1: make sure you subscribe to the channel. Don't wait as

11
00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:33,960
Speaker 1: my buddy Jeremy says, you're going to wait and then

12
00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:36,559
Speaker 1: you're not going to do it. Subscribe. It helps us out,

13
00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,519
Speaker 1: it helps you get the content earlier. Today, we're going

14
00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:43,800
Speaker 1: to talk about leadership and specifically communication as it revolves

15
00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:48,440
Speaker 1: around leadership. Most leaders don't lose authority because they lack vision.

16
00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,000
Speaker 1: They lose authority because they lack clarity. And the truth is,

17
00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:56,040
Speaker 1: if you're leading a family, a team, a business, or

18
00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,120
Speaker 1: even if you're just trying to lead yourself, well, unclear

19
00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:03,840
Speaker 1: communication can create confusion faster than almost anything else. In

20
00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:08,760
Speaker 1: high pressure environments, military teams, first responding units, operating rooms,

21
00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:11,759
Speaker 1: you know, boardrooms, you name it, even inside your home

22
00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:17,480
Speaker 1: Clarity isn't optional, it's essential. It's survival, it's safety, it's trust.

23
00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,520
Speaker 1: A lot of us think that we're being clear when

24
00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:26,760
Speaker 1: we're actually being hesitant, maybe overly polite or overly complicated.

25
00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,480
Speaker 1: So today I got my good friend back in the studio.

26
00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,360
Speaker 1: We had him here before, super pumped to have him

27
00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,920
Speaker 1: here again. Justin Acterton, we're going to talk about why

28
00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:41,160
Speaker 1: and how leaders who communicate clearly actually lead better, build

29
00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:45,200
Speaker 1: stronger teams and stronger relationships, because I would say that

30
00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:49,640
Speaker 1: communication is not just a skill, it's a responsibility. So

31
00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:51,160
Speaker 1: justin welcome back man.

32
00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,120
Speaker 2: Thanks man. I'm excited for the conversation. I'm laughing at

33
00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,120
Speaker 2: some of the things are saying. They're about being polite,

34
00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:57,040
Speaker 2: and I know.

35
00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:58,280
Speaker 1: We'll get in there, we'll dive into that.

36
00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,040
Speaker 3: It makes me laugh. It makes me laugh think.

37
00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:04,000
Speaker 1: About well transparently and I have to you know, be

38
00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,720
Speaker 1: humble in this, and I have to reflect on this

39
00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,480
Speaker 1: for myself of being like man, there's times when I

40
00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,520
Speaker 1: just carry on because maybe I'm not as clear on

41
00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:14,400
Speaker 1: even what I'm supposed to be saying, you know, So

42
00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,720
Speaker 1: preparation comes into that play in there as well, you know.

43
00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,520
Speaker 1: But before we get started. Man, let's talk about you know,

44
00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:22,440
Speaker 1: I know you've been on the shows. People can go back,

45
00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:26,080
Speaker 1: we can link that previous episode is a great episode.

46
00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:30,000
Speaker 1: But man, let's get a background on who you are.

47
00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,440
Speaker 1: I mean, we used to work together. We're on the

48
00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,480
Speaker 1: SWAT team together, So tell us who's just an assetain?

49
00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:39,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, first off, I'm a father or a husband,

50
00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:40,839
Speaker 3: that's number one, right there.

51
00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:45,000
Speaker 2: You go, recently retired from law enforcement for twenty years.

52
00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:46,760
Speaker 2: Like you said, we worked together on the SWAT Team.

53
00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,560
Speaker 2: Was a detective, you know, training lieutenant, did all the cool.

54
00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:52,399
Speaker 3: Guys stuff, right Yeah.

55
00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,839
Speaker 2: And glad to glad to be in a position where

56
00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,079
Speaker 2: I no longer have to be a uniform. Yeah, you know,

57
00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:00,400
Speaker 2: I miss a lot of the fun stuff uff that

58
00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:02,720
Speaker 2: I did throughout the years. Learned a lot of things,

59
00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,040
Speaker 2: picked up on a lot of good skills. But it's uh,

60
00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:06,960
Speaker 2: it's a.

61
00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,840
Speaker 3: Lot less heavy to uh to work every day in

62
00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:14,720
Speaker 3: my own business, be my own boss. Yeah. Yeah, that's uh.

63
00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:16,799
Speaker 3: That's probably my most favorite part about it.

64
00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,960
Speaker 2: That's the driven to report to somebody else and just

65
00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:21,959
Speaker 2: go all right, I wouldn't wanted to get done today.

66
00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:26,840
Speaker 2: So now we're doing you know, leadership communication, going into

67
00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:31,440
Speaker 2: different businesses, doing public speaking as well, and uh, you know,

68
00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,800
Speaker 2: having written a brand new book. That's that's pretty exciting,

69
00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:37,880
Speaker 2: a little weird, weird feeling. I never really thought that

70
00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:38,840
Speaker 2: was ever going to happen.

71
00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,280
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's super cool. We're going to get into

72
00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,320
Speaker 1: some of that. But just as we tease it, the

73
00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,560
Speaker 1: book is called how to Get to the Damn Point.

74
00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,040
Speaker 1: I love the title. Yeah, we'll get into some of

75
00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,680
Speaker 1: the details, but just real quick, ter tell us where

76
00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:52,800
Speaker 1: people can get it.

77
00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's available on Amazon. Yeah, that's the best spot

78
00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,000
Speaker 3: to get it. It hit best seller last week, so nice. Yeah,

79
00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:00,920
Speaker 3: it's pretty exciting.

80
00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, dude's super cool. So sweet. Well, as we get

81
00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,600
Speaker 1: into start get started on the actual topic, like how

82
00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:10,280
Speaker 1: did this evolve for you? Did you just start realizing, man,

83
00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,120
Speaker 1: people aren't communicating clearly, Like how did this happen? You know?

84
00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,080
Speaker 1: I'm sure you know? And I can say coming from

85
00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,920
Speaker 1: law enforcement, you know, even uh and I echo, like

86
00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:24,000
Speaker 1: I miss it. It's fun, but but I'm happy to

87
00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:25,760
Speaker 1: not you know, have to put that uniform on every

88
00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,120
Speaker 1: single day. I'm grateful for the time that I did it,

89
00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:32,000
Speaker 1: but happy to not do it anymore. But there's poor

90
00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:36,160
Speaker 1: communication in every every place, everywhere everywhere, in law enforcement

91
00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,960
Speaker 1: and military and businesses, in your homes.

92
00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:39,560
Speaker 3: You know, So.

93
00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,480
Speaker 1: How did this kind of just where were you? Like, man,

94
00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,400
Speaker 1: there's a need for this to improve.

95
00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you know people and people ask me like,

96
00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:51,400
Speaker 2: where did I, you know, get the idea for the book?

97
00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:52,440
Speaker 2: Where did it come from?

98
00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:53,000
Speaker 1: Yeah?

99
00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:57,640
Speaker 2: Being honest, it was written out of pure frustration because

100
00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:02,279
Speaker 2: seeing the lack of communication, like like you mentioned some

101
00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,080
Speaker 2: of these things being polite or being you know, just

102
00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:09,480
Speaker 2: kind of skirting around the issues it and then and

103
00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,600
Speaker 2: then people think that they were clear, Well you should

104
00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,960
Speaker 2: have understood. I told you, well, the type of language

105
00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:20,279
Speaker 2: that you're using to communicate these expectations, like you said,

106
00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,520
Speaker 2: it feeds into every aspect of our life, not just

107
00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:25,120
Speaker 2: that work, not just in business.

108
00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:27,200
Speaker 3: At home too. You know, when I'm.

109
00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,320
Speaker 2: Talking with my daughter, I'm very clear on what I'm

110
00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:33,200
Speaker 2: what my expectations are, and then I'm asking for the

111
00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,080
Speaker 2: what did you understand that I just said, give me

112
00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,640
Speaker 2: your idea on how we're going to move forward on this.

113
00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,880
Speaker 2: So it's in every aspect and and speaking about my daughter,

114
00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,280
Speaker 2: she's kind of the one that lit the fire under

115
00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:50,120
Speaker 2: me to write this book, and it's a reason that

116
00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:54,839
Speaker 2: it's dedicated to her. It was we were driving in

117
00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:56,960
Speaker 2: my truck one day, and this is before I retired,

118
00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,839
Speaker 2: and we were just coming back from her and my

119
00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,479
Speaker 2: then boss called, the chief of police called, and I

120
00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:06,520
Speaker 2: just put the phone on the speakerphone.

121
00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:07,680
Speaker 3: She'd listened to other.

122
00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:12,200
Speaker 2: Conversations, and he went on rambling and talking about a

123
00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:16,200
Speaker 2: whole lot of nothing for about fifteen twenty minutes. And

124
00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,000
Speaker 2: I see my daughter kind of looking at him. She's

125
00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,760
Speaker 2: trying to tell me something. I'm just like, hang on

126
00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:23,560
Speaker 2: a second till we get through this phone call. So

127
00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,440
Speaker 2: finally the phone call is done, and I asked my daughter, so,

128
00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,520
Speaker 2: what were you trying to tell me? She's like, Dad,

129
00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,839
Speaker 2: that was the most inefficient conversation I've ever heard. She said,

130
00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,640
Speaker 2: when are you going to quit? Oh my gosh, And

131
00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,120
Speaker 2: I just looked at her and said, I'm working on yeah.

132
00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:42,680
Speaker 3: And she was fourteen at.

133
00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,400
Speaker 2: The time, So for her to realize listening to this

134
00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:49,800
Speaker 2: person in a high leadership position going he's not even

135
00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,080
Speaker 2: saying anything. He's talking in circles. He's going back to this,

136
00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:57,760
Speaker 2: He's never getting to the damn point. Yeah, I started

137
00:06:57,760 --> 00:06:58,880
Speaker 2: writing the book the next day.

138
00:06:59,120 --> 00:06:59,560
Speaker 1: Nice.

139
00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,880
Speaker 2: So she was the the spark that kind of said,

140
00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,240
Speaker 2: I need to put this down because everybody needs this.

141
00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,000
Speaker 1: It's interesting you say that. Man. You know, my son's eight,

142
00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,400
Speaker 1: and I have grown to understand that I have to

143
00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:19,880
Speaker 1: be very very clear with him this whole like maybe

144
00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,200
Speaker 1: stuff or it does not work, or we'll see, hey, Bud,

145
00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,640
Speaker 1: we'll see the worst answer I could give him, because

146
00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,400
Speaker 1: you know his brain. And we see this in children,

147
00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,840
Speaker 1: but it's even this carries through, you know, into us

148
00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,320
Speaker 1: as adults, Like if we're not clear on what's being

149
00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:41,800
Speaker 1: told to us, then for one, as a child, they

150
00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:45,320
Speaker 1: continue to ask, whereas an adult we feel like that's rude,

151
00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,400
Speaker 1: and so we either try to do it ourselves or

152
00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,760
Speaker 1: we don't do it at all, which creates more confusion

153
00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,640
Speaker 1: and more drop, you know, in whatever the task is

154
00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:54,960
Speaker 1: being done. And so it's funny that you bring that

155
00:07:55,080 --> 00:08:00,640
Speaker 1: up because that has become so present recently, really really recently.

156
00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,160
Speaker 1: Asked my son's getting older. If I'm like, you know,

157
00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:04,840
Speaker 1: something as simple as like hey day, can we go

158
00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:06,360
Speaker 1: to the park, And I'm like, hey, but we'll see

159
00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:08,520
Speaker 1: in five minutes, he's like, hey, can we go to

160
00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,880
Speaker 1: the park, and I'm like, I'm like, oh, but I

161
00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:13,400
Speaker 1: got to get through. Let me get through this, and

162
00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,360
Speaker 1: then we'll see and he's like hey, and I had

163
00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,040
Speaker 1: to start being like, hey, bub no, we can't go

164
00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:20,960
Speaker 1: to the park right now. When we can go to

165
00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,720
Speaker 1: the park, thank you for asking when we can go

166
00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:25,440
Speaker 1: to the park. If we can, I'll let you know,

167
00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,880
Speaker 1: but right now, no, the answer is no. And then

168
00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:30,720
Speaker 1: he's like oh, and then he's done, you know, And

169
00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:34,040
Speaker 1: so it's anyways side note, but that that is.

170
00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:35,680
Speaker 3: I don't think it is a side note.

171
00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:39,280
Speaker 2: I think I children just kind of keep at it

172
00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,800
Speaker 2: because they hear the vague length. Yeah, yeah, well maybe

173
00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,720
Speaker 2: there's a chance we'll see means maybe maybe let me

174
00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,719
Speaker 2: just check back and back and like you said, adults,

175
00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,600
Speaker 2: maybe we think it's rude, but think about it from

176
00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:55,800
Speaker 2: the leadership perspective. I've had these conversations where, especially when

177
00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,280
Speaker 2: I was a lieutenant, where a sergeant would come to

178
00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,360
Speaker 2: me and say, hey, what can you tell me about that? Hey,

179
00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,040
Speaker 2: what about this project here that we're working on, and

180
00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,880
Speaker 2: what's the normal. Well, you know, we'll see if that

181
00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,280
Speaker 2: if that happens, and you know, I'll have to circle

182
00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,880
Speaker 2: back and you all talk with the chief. We've got

183
00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,600
Speaker 2: a couple when we when we speak in that way,

184
00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,800
Speaker 2: we're underminey in our own trust, Like how do they

185
00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:22,800
Speaker 2: believe that we're going to follow through with anything? Rather

186
00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,040
Speaker 2: than like what you said, the realization you said, Hey,

187
00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,120
Speaker 2: I can't give you information on this project yet because

188
00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,839
Speaker 2: there's still a lot of moving parts. Once I'm able

189
00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,560
Speaker 2: to share the information, I'll reach out to you, but

190
00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:36,360
Speaker 2: until then, I don't have.

191
00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:40,360
Speaker 3: Anything to give you. And then they're like, ool, thanks

192
00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:45,960
Speaker 3: got it. Yeah, yeah, rather than doing this polite geen language.

193
00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:47,760
Speaker 1: Really complicated, long winded.

194
00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,760
Speaker 3: So it doesn't change whether we're kids or adults. Maybe

195
00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:54,040
Speaker 3: we just censor ourselves a little bit better as adults

196
00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:55,720
Speaker 3: rather than keep asking.

197
00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,600
Speaker 2: But I've had team members that kept asking and kept asking.

198
00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:01,600
Speaker 3: I don't see the difference.

199
00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:04,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense. Why do you why do you think?

200
00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,080
Speaker 1: Why do we do that? I mean, why do we hedge?

201
00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,480
Speaker 1: Why do we it's why do we dance around the topic.

202
00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:15,360
Speaker 2: My full belief is it's a lack of wanting to

203
00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:20,000
Speaker 2: be held accountable for what's said. Yeah, because if I

204
00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,960
Speaker 2: speak in this vague language, if I speak in a

205
00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:24,880
Speaker 2: way to what well, no, that's not what I meant.

206
00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:26,360
Speaker 3: You misunderstood me.

207
00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:33,760
Speaker 2: When you can't give clear, concise communication, sometimes it's on purpose. Yeah,

208
00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,160
Speaker 2: it's because I don't want to be held accountable for

209
00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:39,640
Speaker 2: what I say because things might change.

210
00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:41,679
Speaker 3: Rather than just admitting that.

211
00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:43,920
Speaker 2: There's a lot of moving parts, you're like, Hey, Sehn,

212
00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,200
Speaker 2: thanks to you for asking about this project. Hey, I

213
00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:49,240
Speaker 2: can't share all this information with you. There's a lot

214
00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:53,120
Speaker 2: of moving parts still, some conversations that behind the scenes

215
00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,400
Speaker 2: that are having with command staff that I can't share

216
00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,400
Speaker 2: with you yet. Once I'm able to share that.

217
00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:00,559
Speaker 3: With you, I will mm hmm.

218
00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:03,680
Speaker 2: But some people don't want to take that extra effort

219
00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:06,800
Speaker 2: or they don't want to be held accountable for whatever

220
00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:07,520
Speaker 2: they say.

221
00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:12,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So what would

222
00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:14,240
Speaker 1: be how does somebody watch out for this? How does

223
00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:19,120
Speaker 1: what is a warning sign? Deata leaders speaking unclearly.

224
00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:20,800
Speaker 3: Like in themselves and themselves.

225
00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,560
Speaker 1: In themselves, let's talk how to self reflect on how

226
00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:24,800
Speaker 1: to be a better communicator.

227
00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:25,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we.

228
00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:28,120
Speaker 2: Talked about that a little bit in the last conversation

229
00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:28,959
Speaker 2: we had as well.

230
00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:33,000
Speaker 3: But focusing on the words that we're using, you.

231
00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:38,040
Speaker 2: Know, when we're using these vague conceptual concepts, or we're

232
00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:44,280
Speaker 2: saying try or maybe or circle back, we'll see. That

233
00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:49,160
Speaker 2: type of language doesn't create trust in your team because

234
00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,480
Speaker 2: they hear it just like your son hears it.

235
00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,560
Speaker 3: We'll see, we'll try. What does that mean?

236
00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:58,080
Speaker 2: We'll let me keep asking or or is it ever

237
00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:03,199
Speaker 2: really going to happen? And so we have to audit

238
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,880
Speaker 2: our own language as leaders, and there's multiple ways to

239
00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:08,640
Speaker 2: do that. Some of it is within the idea of

240
00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,040
Speaker 2: statement analysis, and I talked about in the book going

241
00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,840
Speaker 2: through the Wave method, I think one of the big

242
00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:20,200
Speaker 2: ones which we can audit ourselves. But there's also a

243
00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,280
Speaker 2: weird expectation that people understand. It is this idea of

244
00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:29,439
Speaker 2: conceptual and abstract language that we use. So if I'm

245
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,640
Speaker 2: maybe it's on a performance review and I say, Sean

246
00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:38,880
Speaker 2: had demonstrated bad attitude this quarter, What.

247
00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:40,920
Speaker 3: Do you mean by attitude?

248
00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,920
Speaker 2: What do you mean by bad You're not talking about

249
00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:48,400
Speaker 2: specific behaviors, and so you read that on your performance evaluation.

250
00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:50,800
Speaker 3: How do you improve your attitude?

251
00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,840
Speaker 2: You have no direction, you have no understanding on what

252
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:59,120
Speaker 2: needs to actually improve. But as a leader or HR

253
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:03,760
Speaker 2: wants to be a light, yeah, well we need to

254
00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:07,520
Speaker 2: improve our added what does that mean, well, maybe I

255
00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:10,040
Speaker 2: need you to be more engaged in team meetings, maybe

256
00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,480
Speaker 2: I needs you to stop making rude comments when someone

257
00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:18,320
Speaker 2: else is giving a presentation. Those are specific behaviors that

258
00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:22,280
Speaker 2: we can improve upon, but we're either being lazy with

259
00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:23,720
Speaker 2: it or we're being polite.

260
00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:31,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, So the cost is it's it's the cost of

261
00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:34,440
Speaker 1: that poor communication by that leader affects the entire team. Yes,

262
00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,240
Speaker 1: and because organization, and then which obviously leaks into the

263
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,640
Speaker 1: entire organization. Because I was thinking about that too in

264
00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:45,880
Speaker 1: the example that I gave, Like, you know, the responsibility

265
00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:48,640
Speaker 1: for confusion is not the person who received the information,

266
00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:50,760
Speaker 1: it's the person who delivered it. You know. So if

267
00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:52,920
Speaker 1: I get mad at my son because he's asking over

268
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:54,400
Speaker 1: and over again to go to the park, but I

269
00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,520
Speaker 1: told him we'll see, well, he's like, okay, we'll see.

270
00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,080
Speaker 1: Well then I'm going to can you to see. I'm

271
00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,680
Speaker 1: going totinue to look and see until that time comes.

272
00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,160
Speaker 1: As opposed to me saying hey look, bub answers no.

273
00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:08,360
Speaker 1: You know, and I'm just using an example because I

274
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,880
Speaker 1: brought it up. We do this in our business with

275
00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:14,800
Speaker 1: our wives in business and whatever it is, hey answers no,

276
00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,280
Speaker 1: you ask thank you for asking. You know, when I

277
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,680
Speaker 1: have that information or when we can do that, then

278
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:21,320
Speaker 1: I'll let you know.

279
00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:24,880
Speaker 3: That's why clarity is a leadership obligation.

280
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,800
Speaker 1: I like that. So what are some phrases and I

281
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,640
Speaker 1: think we talked about this last episode as well, but

282
00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:37,560
Speaker 1: they're good. What are phrases that we should eliminate in

283
00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:41,800
Speaker 1: how we talk to people or we could catch ourselves anything.

284
00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:46,359
Speaker 2: So when we're talking about the concrete and behavioral language,

285
00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:50,560
Speaker 2: so most of the time we're speaking in these abstract terminology.

286
00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,800
Speaker 2: So we could go to a room with twenty people

287
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,760
Speaker 2: and ask them to difine leadership, We're gonna get twenty

288
00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:02,520
Speaker 2: different variations of that. But if I asked you to

289
00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:08,560
Speaker 2: define running, you know, like the behaviors that we talked about,

290
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:14,240
Speaker 2: like or even saying your report isn't up to par?

291
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,080
Speaker 3: What does that mean? What do you what do you

292
00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:18,520
Speaker 3: what do you mean not up to par?

293
00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:23,680
Speaker 2: When we use these phrases that can be misinterpreted, that's

294
00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:27,320
Speaker 2: where we have to have that conversation between the two

295
00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:31,080
Speaker 2: people communicating, Hey, what's your definition of that? Or what

296
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,800
Speaker 2: do you what do you mean by you know, attitude?

297
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,320
Speaker 2: What do you mean by bad what specific behaviors do

298
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:42,440
Speaker 2: you need to see from me to demonstrate that my

299
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:46,400
Speaker 2: behavior has improved or my attitude has improved. And so

300
00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,920
Speaker 2: it's less phrases and more of these these words, because

301
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:55,760
Speaker 2: I if I said, hey, Sean, I'm I'm determined to

302
00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,920
Speaker 2: accomplish this task, what is determined?

303
00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:00,400
Speaker 1: Look like?

304
00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,360
Speaker 2: I can't sit here and look determined. There's no behavior

305
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:10,400
Speaker 2: linked with the word determined. That's a conceptual word. And

306
00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,440
Speaker 2: so if I'm saying this is what I'm going to do,

307
00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,560
Speaker 2: I'm going to work until six pm tonight to make

308
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,360
Speaker 2: sure that this task is completed by Friday at five pm.

309
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:24,560
Speaker 2: You can't misinterpret that. Yeah, right, And so it's like

310
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:30,400
Speaker 2: speaking in language that cannot be misinterpreted. And if you

311
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,400
Speaker 2: do happen to use some of these abstract conceptual words,

312
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,440
Speaker 2: make sure that we're using the same definition. Well, hey,

313
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,200
Speaker 2: what do you mean by determined? Or how do you

314
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:45,280
Speaker 2: see that getting accomplished? It takes a little extra effort,

315
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:47,400
Speaker 2: but we need to be on the same page when

316
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:51,520
Speaker 2: we're using these words. And I think leaders make the assumption, well,

317
00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:54,880
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, we're speaking the same language

318
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:55,640
Speaker 2: and we're not.

319
00:16:58,120 --> 00:16:59,800
Speaker 1: And man, it makes me think too. What we talk

320
00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:04,560
Speaker 1: to about this blink being polite. I'm you know, beyond

321
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:08,119
Speaker 1: them not wanting to be on the hook for you

322
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,439
Speaker 1: know what happens in that situation. I think we're too

323
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:15,159
Speaker 1: soft on people absolutely, like we're like, they feel like

324
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,520
Speaker 1: that's going to be seems rude when I'm like, hey,

325
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:19,640
Speaker 1: what does determined mean to you? Like, they may take

326
00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:24,919
Speaker 1: offense for that. So you can soft that soft language

327
00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:25,840
Speaker 1: a road leadership.

328
00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:27,000
Speaker 3: I really think it can't.

329
00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:32,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because now we can talk about delivery too, right,

330
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:34,959
Speaker 1: how you deliver the clarity is important as well, right,

331
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,760
Speaker 1: phone and that kind of stuff. But still you're asking

332
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:42,480
Speaker 1: that person to clarify what determined means to them. And

333
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:44,879
Speaker 1: then you brought out the example of being the person

334
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,760
Speaker 1: on the other side. Man, you brought up there could

335
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:52,560
Speaker 1: be a responsibility on that person to effectively clarify communication. Hey,

336
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:54,880
Speaker 1: you said my attitude was bad? What does that mean?

337
00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,520
Speaker 1: And how what does it look like for my attitude

338
00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,359
Speaker 1: to not be bad? How do I improve that? And

339
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,960
Speaker 1: so even on the flip side of the person receiving

340
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,639
Speaker 1: the information, Although again we talk and we harp on

341
00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,639
Speaker 1: the fact that it's the leader's responsibility to clearly communicate.

342
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:13,040
Speaker 1: The person who's receiving the communication could have the responsibility

343
00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,840
Speaker 1: to clarify the communication so that they can more effectively.

344
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:19,880
Speaker 2: Well, if someone on your team is bringing you an

345
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:25,440
Speaker 2: issue and they're using these bige abstract words. As a leader,

346
00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:29,520
Speaker 2: what do you mean by this? What specifically needs to

347
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,040
Speaker 2: change for us to be okay here or for us

348
00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:37,119
Speaker 2: to move forward? And so we as leaders, again it

349
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,639
Speaker 2: falls back on us for our responsibility to pick apart

350
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:44,080
Speaker 2: that weak language. What do you mean by this? You know,

351
00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:47,000
Speaker 2: what specifically needs to change for us to move forward

352
00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:47,840
Speaker 2: with this process?

353
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:54,560
Speaker 1: Why do we ramble? Is that insecurity? Is it a habit?

354
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,680
Speaker 1: Is it something we've learned. I mean we've talked about

355
00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:03,400
Speaker 1: obviously fear of the consequences or maybe being too polite,

356
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,000
Speaker 1: But man, a lot of people rambles.

357
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,000
Speaker 3: I think. I list a few reasons in the book

358
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:10,560
Speaker 3: about it.

359
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:16,160
Speaker 2: One I think is that we haven't formulated the thought yet,

360
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:20,159
Speaker 2: and so we're thinking out loud, and so it's just

361
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,280
Speaker 2: I haven't really thought about this, So let me think

362
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,440
Speaker 2: about this out loud. As we're talking about this communication,

363
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,159
Speaker 2: and the person on the other side of it is like,

364
00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:29,280
Speaker 2: where is this going?

365
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:29,640
Speaker 1: Yeah?

366
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:34,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, like trying to follow up with your thought process

367
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,680
Speaker 2: as you're bouncing around and putting all these words out there.

368
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,520
Speaker 2: So that's one I think we haven't formulated the idea yet.

369
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,600
Speaker 2: I also think that some of this is contagious.

370
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:48,040
Speaker 3: Somehow.

371
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,720
Speaker 2: We think that once you step into a leadership role

372
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:56,359
Speaker 2: that you have to use more words. And I've sat

373
00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:03,240
Speaker 2: in rooms where everyone feels like they have to have

374
00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:08,000
Speaker 2: their thirty minutes of talk time on this topic when

375
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:12,040
Speaker 2: it could have taken thirty seconds, and you watch it

376
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:17,080
Speaker 2: happen again and again, I think that there's some idea

377
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:20,199
Speaker 2: out there, well, that's how leaders talk. One of the

378
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,600
Speaker 2: stories in the book is the seven hour command staff meeting.

379
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,680
Speaker 3: On a regular basis seven hours.

380
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:33,080
Speaker 2: Yes, our command staff meetings were this agency were five

381
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:37,560
Speaker 2: to seven hours, and there's only five to six people

382
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:42,399
Speaker 2: in this room. And it was torturous for me to

383
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,080
Speaker 2: sit in these meetings. I think I wrote most of

384
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,280
Speaker 2: this book in my head sitting in those meetings, listening

385
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,120
Speaker 2: to these conversations, because by the time it would get

386
00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,720
Speaker 2: to me, I'd share my five points in about seven

387
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,920
Speaker 2: minutes and then they're looking at me like that's it,

388
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,600
Speaker 2: that's all you got, almost like I was being rude

389
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:06,680
Speaker 2: by talking less, and it's like, Okay, I guess Justin's done.

390
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,720
Speaker 2: Let's move on. Everything has been addressed that I need

391
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:15,560
Speaker 2: to get here. But I've watched these other leaders, and

392
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,960
Speaker 2: i'd say leaders, you know, talk and talk and talk

393
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,760
Speaker 2: because they think that that's what they're supposed to do.

394
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 2: So I think there's there's another aspect there. Maybe maybe

395
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,639
Speaker 2: it's a little bit of the apost syndrome coming in,

396
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,440
Speaker 2: but I have to talk more to cover my tracks.

397
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it just the longer.

398
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,240
Speaker 2: You sit there and listen to it, the less you

399
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:40,359
Speaker 2: trust that person.

400
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:48,440
Speaker 1: Over clarifying too, we're talking about clarity, but I I've

401
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,280
Speaker 1: been in positions where I'm listening to somebody talking something

402
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,640
Speaker 1: that I try to watch for myself. It's like an

403
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 1: over clarity, like you've already stated what you wanted to say,

404
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 1: but then you want to serve go back to it

405
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 1: to say it again.

406
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 2: It's almost a way to get ahead, try to get

407
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 2: ahead of objection. Well, I want to make sure that

408
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,840
Speaker 2: you know we say this, And and I've sat into

409
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:14,639
Speaker 2: those meetings where they're like, hey, this is what we

410
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 2: need to do. I agree with you, Well, we need

411
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:18,640
Speaker 2: to do it because of this, and because of this,

412
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 2: and I.

413
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:21,960
Speaker 3: Already agree with you, let's move forward.

414
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 2: Well, I just want to you know, let you know

415
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:25,160
Speaker 2: how important it is for.

416
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 1: Now you create frustration.

417
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,200
Speaker 2: Yes, now you're creating frustration in the team. Again, there's

418
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 2: that trust issue. It's like, why are you why do

419
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 2: you have to over clarify You're you're you're trying to

420
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,639
Speaker 2: heads the bets that there's going to be any objection.

421
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 2: It's like, well, in this and this, just say what

422
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 2: needs to be done, and then if I need to

423
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 2: ask you why it needs to be done, give me

424
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,199
Speaker 2: some information there, and then if there needs to be

425
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,360
Speaker 2: some more context, let's let's go through it. Because there's

426
00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:01,399
Speaker 2: another you know, formula teaching the book point why context?

427
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,640
Speaker 2: You start with the point, Hey, we need to talk

428
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:05,719
Speaker 2: about project X.

429
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:07,479
Speaker 1: Okay.

430
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 3: Cool. So now we're all keyed up on what we're on.

431
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:11,919
Speaker 2: Hey, now we're all like, okay, let's get all the

432
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 2: files ready for project X, right, okay, and we need

433
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 2: to talk about project X because it's behind because here's

434
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 2: the data that we're looking at.

435
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:19,360
Speaker 3: Okay.

436
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 2: Cool, Now we've got the why, and then maybe maybe

437
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 2: we need context, maybe we don't. Hey, well, we were

438
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 2: in another meeting last week, we looked at the numbers

439
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 2: from last quarter. Da da da, rather than starting with

440
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,400
Speaker 2: the story, yeah, because normally what does it sound like? Hey, Sew,

441
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 2: you know, I was in a meeting last week and

442
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,400
Speaker 2: this this topic came up where I mean, we were

443
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 2: really talking about it last quarter, but then you know,

444
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,159
Speaker 2: I really started thinking about it's really important for us

445
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 2: to get on the same page for this project. And

446
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 2: you know, long story short too late, long story long,

447
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 2: bro too late, and and you're.

448
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 3: Trying to follow along, going where are we going? Where

449
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 3: are we going with this? Rather than saying, this is

450
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 3: what we need to have a conversation about right now.

451
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good. I was recently in a leadership meeting

452
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 1: and an organization that I'm tied to, and there was

453
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 1: an opportunity for your Q and A at the end,

454
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 1: and every person that wanted to start with the question

455
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 1: didn't start with the question. They started with whether.

456
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,479
Speaker 2: Maybe they were once upon a time, or even even

457
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 2: like boosting the person that they were posing the question to,

458
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 2: almost trying to get ahead of you.

459
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: Hey, just so you don't think that I think you're

460
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 1: a bad person, even though I'm going to ask a

461
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 1: hard question, but you actually never really even got to

462
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 1: the hard question because you spent too much time trying

463
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,400
Speaker 1: to like give this disclaimer before you could actually ask

464
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,400
Speaker 1: the question. And I just saw this the other day

465
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: and we were I was thinking about it when we were,

466
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: when I was preparing for this conversation, I was like, man,

467
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: this is so rampant. And these are grown men, and

468
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 1: these are these these are leaders, They're all in, all

469
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 1: in here, leaders people that own businesses, people that run organizations,

470
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: people that are leading inside a church, and they're doing

471
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 1: this rambling. It is contagious. And I think it has

472
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 1: to do with the fear that we've talked about, and

473
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 1: then the attempt to be polite when let's just say

474
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: what needs to be said, and then if we need

475
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 1: to clarify further, then we do. Let's not try to

476
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: get ahead of the clarification or provide too much context,

477
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 1: because now you create confusion, you create frustration. Makes me

478
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 1: think about spouse's dude like talking with each other, and

479
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,959
Speaker 1: you know, especially in a heated conversation, you really want

480
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: to get your point across, and if you don't, you

481
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 1: don't believe that person received your point properly. You have

482
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: to circle back around and say it again. You know,

483
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 1: Now you just create frustration and anger, And it makes

484
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: me even think about releasing the person that you're communicating

485
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 1: to from validating the point that you're trying to get across,

486
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,439
Speaker 1: you know, like maybe I should release my expectation of

487
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: what your response should be and just focus on the

488
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,159
Speaker 1: communication that I need to deliver it to you. So

489
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 1: that's just the thought that popped in my head really

490
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: from spouse conversation.

491
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 3: I get it all that communication.

492
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 2: We think we're talking the same language, right, Well, you

493
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 2: should have known. I want you to know, well you

494
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 2: want specific enough?

495
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 3: What do you mean by that? You want this? Well,

496
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 3: I mean okay, well now I know.

497
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 2: Now I know what that word means for you, So

498
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 2: now I can follow through with that. But I think

499
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 2: it shows up a lot in our relationships. We use

500
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 2: this abstract language and we assume that the other person

501
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 2: is speaking the same definition as we are, and that's

502
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 2: rarely the case.

503
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: So can can we learn to improve? Can this be taught?

504
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 1: Can you learn this?

505
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 2: Oh?

506
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 3: Absolutely?

507
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, you know. That's that's the framework in the book.

508
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 1: Book.

509
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 3: That's what it's about.

510
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 2: It's about having a framework that we can go, Okay,

511
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 2: where do I need to audit my language? Where do

512
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 2: I need to ask more questions? And does it take

513
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 2: more effort? Yes, it does because even when we're being

514
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 2: the one to communicate it and we don't want to

515
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 2: have to go does that make sense?

516
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 3: Do you understand? Because that never lands?

517
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: Well?

518
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 3: What does everyone go? Yeah?

519
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 2: I understand. You have to ask better questions. Right, So,

520
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 2: when we're delivering this message, maybe we asked, Hey, what

521
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 2: do you see as the first step in getting this accomplished?

522
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:34,360
Speaker 2: Or what is your what is anything that can be misinterpreted?

523
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 3: And what I just told you?

524
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 2: Or what are the what's what are the missing pieces

525
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 2: that you need that I haven't given you yet? Because

526
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 2: you think about that now now we're making them think

527
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:52,919
Speaker 2: about it. We've just delivered some communication because could be

528
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 2: a leadership, could be you know, spouse, we have our

529
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 2: own context going on. We have we've had other meetings

530
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 2: about this, We've had other conversations. We know all the

531
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 2: intricacies of the things that need to be accomplished, and

532
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 2: we tend to let those fill in the gap in

533
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 2: our own mind, and we place this assumption on the

534
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 2: other person rather than asking Hey, what other information do

535
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 2: you need from me? I like that to make sure

536
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 2: that this gets fulfilled. Well, what did I not communicate

537
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 2: clearly enough that you don't have a complete understanding of yet?

538
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 2: And then you ask the follow up, ques, Hey, where

539
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 2: here's your assignment? Where's your first step? Or what do

540
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 2: you think success looks like? Once this gets done and

541
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 2: we have to have more conversation, but it's all very

542
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 2: direct conversation.

543
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the responsibility, which I love, is still on

544
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: the leader or I say, since we've talked about, you know,

545
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: spouses so much, the person who owns that communication, the

546
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: person who's delivering that communication. So you could even get

547
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: ahead of the lack of clarity by asking the right

548
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 1: questions as follow ups. It's pretty good mentioned it earlier,

549
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: and I know we talked about it a little bit previously.

550
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: But let's talk about the wave framework. What is the

551
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: wave man? I think it's a good I remember talking

552
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: about it. It's just good.

553
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 2: So that goes back to an audit in your language, right,

554
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 2: So the wave methods words awareness, verify, and engage, And

555
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 2: so what this comes from is statement analysis, and from

556
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 2: the law enforcement world, statement analysis is used to determine

557
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 2: the truthfulness and accuracy of written and spoken word. And

558
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 2: using this as a detective, I realized I could use

559
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 2: it on myself. And so that's why I thought it

560
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 2: was so important to put this in the book as well, because.

561
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 3: This was this was the basis of my TED talk.

562
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's really a great tool for that self

563
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 2: auditing language. So first, the words, we need to understand

564
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 2: the different categories. So these are different than the abstract

565
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 2: conceptual language. These are more focused on specific categories of words,

566
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 2: so absolutes, equivocations and stop action verbs, absolutes. Now, these

567
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 2: show up probably more often in our arguments with our

568
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 2: spouses always, never, every no one. It's like you always

569
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 2: do this, you never do that, and they are rarely accurate.

570
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 2: Do you always do something? You never do something? And

571
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 2: I even had this conversation. I was speaking at a

572
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 2: real estate conference recently and thinking about how those type

573
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 2: of words undermine trust with clients. Well, that never happens,

574
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 2: or we always do this. As customers, we hear that

575
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 2: and go really that never, that never happens, for you

576
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 2: always do that, and because it doesn't line up with reality,

577
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 2: we never always do something or never there's there's variations there,

578
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 2: and so we have to be aware when we use

579
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 2: this type of absolute language because the person that we're

580
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 2: speaking to can read through.

581
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: That lack of accuracy.

582
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 2: The next category of these equivocational words, and I think

583
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 2: you've kind of mentioned some of these, I might maybe

584
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 2: kind of sort of it's it's a way for us

585
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 2: to give a lack of commitment. Well, well, perhaps this

586
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 2: will happen, we'll see type of language, and so it's

587
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 2: it's a way to kind of politely defer and we

588
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 2: can we've already talked about how that can affect, you know, communication.

589
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 2: To me, the most important ones are these stop action

590
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 2: for especially for leaders. So these are try, started, plan too,

591
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 2: meant to, want to, need to, love to, and I

592
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 2: always like to say I think I said it here

593
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 2: last time. In the South, we'd love to say fix it.

594
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 3: I'm fitting to do it.

595
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 2: But all of these words a stop action verbs display

596
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 2: a level of failure. I'll try to do that, I

597
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 2: want to do that, I need to do that, And.

598
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 3: As a leader, when we're.

599
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 2: You know, talking to ourselves, I'll try to have that

600
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 2: done by the end of the day, or I want

601
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 2: to accomplish this task. Or we'll plan to make this happen.

602
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 2: Our team hears that lack of you know, definity, you know,

603
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 2: the definitive language, and it's like we'll try, we'll plan

604
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 2: into and so if it's something we actually want to accomplish,

605
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 2: we have to audit that language. We have to see

606
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 2: it in our own communication and take it out. So

607
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 2: those are the main categories of words that we focus on.

608
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: The words words awareness, awareness, verify, and engage and engage.

609
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 2: So the awareness piece that's really us us becoming aware

610
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 2: of the words that we're using, and we have to

611
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 2: we have to interrupt it when we hear it. That's

612
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 2: the only way Jim Quick talks about this that are

613
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 2: our subconscious is always listening to us, and we're we're

614
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 2: programming our subconscious to behave in certain ways, and we

615
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 2: need to make sure that we're not speaking these minimizing.

616
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 3: Statements into existence.

617
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 2: So whenever I catch myself, you know, maybe in the morning,

618
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, I want to go to the

619
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 2: gym today, Like, no, I will go to the gym today.

620
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 3: You know, I am going to the gym today.

621
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,720
Speaker 2: It changes the way that you behave And so catching

622
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,360
Speaker 2: yourself in the moment is really that awareness piece and

623
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 2: going Okay, what do I really want? And it may

624
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 2: be even a time to ask yourself some questions. Do

625
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 2: I really want this? Is this something that's going to

626
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 2: serve me? Or am I just saying this to be

627
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 2: polite to I'll try to make your party on Friday.

628
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,439
Speaker 2: It's like, well, now we're just being polite, right, rather

629
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 2: than saying, hey, look I can't make it. If things change,

630
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 2: I'll reach out to see if I'll be able, but

631
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 2: at this moment, I can't commit to come in on Friday.

632
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 2: Sounds way different. Right When you say I'll try, You're like,

633
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 2: you know he's.

634
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 1: Not gonna show up.

635
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:55,280
Speaker 2: So building that awareness piece. And I've had some people,

636
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 2: you know, bring it up to me in the past like, well,

637
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 2: we use these words all the time, everyone uses or

638
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 2: plan to Is it that big of a deal. Well,

639
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 2: the challenge that I give everyone is walk up to

640
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 2: your spouse and say, I'll try to be.

641
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 3: Faithful to you. I think we joked about that last time.

642
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 3: It's not going to go well. Or I'll plan to

643
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 3: be faithful to you. It's not going to go over well.

644
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 2: The only way that we will accept that is I

645
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 2: will or I'm going to or I promise to. Right,

646
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 2: And so that's the awareness piece, is in yourself going okay,

647
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 2: I hear it.

648
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 3: Now what do I want to do? Do I want

649
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 3: to change it? Is it something that's going to serve me?

650
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 2: The v that's the verification this is we're in a

651
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 2: digital world now, right. We send more emails and text

652
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 2: messages and we have in person conversations. Yeah, and so

653
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 2: how important is it for us to audit our text

654
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 2: our emails even are the proposals that we send. You

655
00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 2: send a proposal to a client and you say, well

656
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 2: try or we might or we'll see. You think you're gonna,

657
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 2: you know, build trust with that person.

658
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 3: No way. If I'm sending an email.

659
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,399
Speaker 2: That I know is going to multiple people, I might

660
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 2: read that email like twelve times. Yeah, let me make

661
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 2: sure Okay, no vague conceptual language. Okay, let me go back,

662
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 2: any minimizing, any stop action verbs. Let me go back

663
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:28,800
Speaker 2: and make sure that this communication cannot be misinterpreted. Because

664
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,320
Speaker 2: it's more important when we're not in person, because the

665
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 2: other person's reading that email in their mood with no context,

666
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 2: no context, they're not getting the body language of facial

667
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 2: expressions of micro expressions, and they're just reading words and

668
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,280
Speaker 2: plugging in their own perception. And so it's more important

669
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 2: nowadays to verify your communication, email, text, proposals, whatever you're

670
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 2: sending out there marketing.

671
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 3: So that's the via. The verifications is the engagement.

672
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 2: So this is having someone else hold you accountable, whether

673
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,280
Speaker 2: that's your spouse or co worker. Say hey, I'm trying

674
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 2: to sing out, I want to remove these words, you know,

675
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 2: from my vocabulary when they're not useful. When you when

676
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 2: you hear me say these words pointing out to me,

677
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 2: you know, I did that with my wife and a

678
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 2: couple of times. She was a little hesitant at first.

679
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,839
Speaker 2: She's like, well, you just said try. Oh you're right, Hey,

680
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 2: thank you, I will do that. I am going to

681
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 2: do that. I would never suggest that you put this

682
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 2: on your spouse. If they want to join you in

683
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 2: the in the in the task, hey let them join

684
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 2: as well. But having that accountability partner, that level of engagement,

685
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 2: that's what's going to make this stick.

686
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 1: That wave method. I like that a lot. That's good.

687
00:37:56,239 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: So what is what is one habit out of what

688
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: we just talked about that somebody should do it immediately?

689
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 1: Say the point first. Say the point first.

690
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:14,280
Speaker 2: In whatever the communication is, say the point first. Everything

691
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 2: else could come out for it.

692
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, what about what do you see most Maybe you

693
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 1: cover this, but what do you see most missed in

694
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 1: the wave method?

695
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,760
Speaker 2: Just not understanding how the words really impact the trust

696
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 2: in your team and whoever you're communicating with. If you

697
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 2: use some of this verbiage on repeat, it's going to

698
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,240
Speaker 2: erode that trust with your team.

699
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. What about this? We talked about this

700
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,240
Speaker 1: last time and we didn't really cover it a whole lot,

701
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: but I think it's important and maybe it plays into

702
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 1: the distancing language you talk We talked about distancing language.

703
00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 1: Does that play into the wave method or.

704
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 2: It's it's part of content analysis, it's you know, there

705
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 2: could be some some use there or for the internal dialogue.

706
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 3: That's kind of how I discovered it.

707
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 2: Was using some distancing language myself when my when my

708
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 2: truck got keyed because I'm writing the statement for the

709
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 2: insurance companies my truck, my truck, my off, it's the truck.

710
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, now I don't want it anymore because

711
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 2: it's damage, right, And so that was the light bulb

712
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 2: moment for me when it came on that distancing language.

713
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:37,320
Speaker 2: But that distancing language made sense. If you are using

714
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 2: some distancing language and maybe some some projects you're working on,

715
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 2: or some relationships that you have, there might be some

716
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 2: questions you kind of have to ask yourself if if

717
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, say relationship wise, you're saying my wife,

718
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 2: my wife, and one day it's the wife or that woman,

719
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 2: whatever that is you're having that conversation, is that is

720
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 2: there something going on?

721
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: There?

722
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 3: Is there?

723
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 1: You know?

724
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,320
Speaker 2: Do you have to remake that connection?

725
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 3: Right? So I'd say it could show up to.

726
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 2: Check and balance for Yeah. And so when you hear it,

727
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,760
Speaker 2: it's like, why am I? Why am I distancing that language?

728
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 2: Because it's not for no reason. There's a reason there,

729
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 2: but you're the only one that knows.

730
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good. That's why I thought it was powerful.

731
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 1: I remember that, and I thought, man, distancing language is

732
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 1: a powerful thing to watch for.

733
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 2: But it could could it also give you some clarity, right,

734
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 2: like on some things that maybe you don't want, they

735
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 2: don't serve you anymore, that project rather than my project, Right,

736
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 2: maybe it's something you want to give away and delegate.

737
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 3: To someone else.

738
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:43,839
Speaker 1: That's good.

739
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 3: I always love delegating as a leader.

740
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 2: I think it's it's our It's another one of our

741
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 2: responsibilities to make more leaders around us and give them

742
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 2: things to do. So once it's a project that no

743
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 2: longer serves, you hand it off to someone to help

744
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:01,720
Speaker 2: them learn to manage something.

745
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good. What else, man, anything else in the

746
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: book you want to cover before we anything that's like,

747
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 1: oh man, this is this is a good part of

748
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 1: the book.

749
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 2: And I think we really covered a lot of aspects,

750
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 2: but kind of going back to like the point aspect.

751
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 2: I think about this in conversations where you know you

752
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 2: have to have a tough conversation.

753
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 3: I think there's this.

754
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 2: Idea out there that we have to kind of have

755
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 2: this polite sandwich, right, Well, I know I have to

756
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 2: like give you some correct praise.

757
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 1: I got to correct you again.

758
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,800
Speaker 3: It's complete nonsense. Think about this, your.

759
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 1: Boss methods nonsense.

760
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 3: Your boss walks into the room.

761
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 4: It's like, hey, hey, hey, Sean, how's it going. I

762
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 4: heard you just got back from a trip. You know

763
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 4: how you know, how was it Okay? Well, hey, well,

764
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 4: now there's this thing we have to talk about. And

765
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 4: the whole time, you know, the bosses and you're like,

766
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 4: you know something's coming, the hammer is about to come down,

767
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 4: So you're really not engaging with this polite conversation upfront,

768
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 4: and then whatever happens at the back end is.

769
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 3: Like, okay, well, well let me know if you need.

770
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 2: Anything, rather than the starting with the point first saying hey, Sean,

771
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 2: we've got to talk about this one issue here. Hey,

772
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 2: this project is not the part we need to get

773
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 2: it on track. You know, what do we need to

774
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:30,399
Speaker 2: do about this? Have that conversation, and then afterwards, hey,

775
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 2: how's the family, how's everything going with? Yeah, now that's

776
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 2: a more real conversation. When you're doing patting it up front,

777
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 2: the person receiving that communication knows that this is not authentic,

778
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 2: this is not real. But when you hang around at

779
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 2: the end, you can still be human. You can be

780
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 2: direct and still be human and go, hey, tell me

781
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 2: what's going on, how's everything going at the house? What

782
00:42:57,760 --> 00:42:59,839
Speaker 2: else can I help you with around here? To make

783
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 2: sure we get in alignment with.

784
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 1: All of this. All right, we'll do some rapid fire questions. Okay,

785
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:06,760
Speaker 1: you're ready, rapid fire rapid fire questions.

786
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 2: I always say, never do rapid fire questions when I

787
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 2: teach interview interrogation.

788
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 3: I'm like, that is the one thing no one does

789
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:15,800
Speaker 3: but break the rule. Breaking the rules.

790
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: Best leadership communication mistake you ever made, you ever.

791
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 2: Made, best mistake I've ever made, if you've made one,

792
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 2: I've definitely made plenty of mistakes early on in my career.

793
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 3: Not delegating it.

794
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 1: Not delegating enough. That's good. Yeah, that's good. I like

795
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 1: we said about delegating to it allows somebody else to

796
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,439
Speaker 1: take responsibility and that can help them grow and they're

797
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 1: you know, absolutely their personal development as well. Biggest myth

798
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 1: about strong communication.

799
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 3: That you need more words.

800
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: I like that that you need more words. What separates

801
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: communicators people listen to from communicators people ignore?

802
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 3: Using yeah, clarity, using clear, in size language.

803
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 1: Sweet. It's a good conversation, man, oh I love it.

804
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 1: We can totally flesh more out. But for people watching,

805
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: how to get to the damn point? Justin Atherton has

806
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:15,919
Speaker 1: it on Amazon. You said, right, you have a website as.

807
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,320
Speaker 3: Well, Yes, Justin w Atherton dot com.

808
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:23,720
Speaker 1: Justin w Afterton dot com. So good conversation, guys. Remember

809
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 1: when the bullets are flying, you got two choices. You

810
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 1: can either march or you can stay where you are

811
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 1: and die. The people that rely on you, your family,

812
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,919
Speaker 1: they deserve clarity. Your teams, they deserve clarity. The people

813
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 1: who you're leading need to know where they're going and

814
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 1: why it matters. So say what you have to say,

815
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,839
Speaker 1: say it clearly, and say it with purpose, because when

816
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,800
Speaker 1: leaders lead, people can move, and movement can be described

817
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 1: as marching. And if you're always moving forward, then you're

818
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 1: never stuck on the X. Thank you guys for watching.

819
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 1: We'll see Max