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Speaker 1: Life Audio.

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Speaker 2: Because this stuff, the thing that we learn and understand

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Speaker 2: as we're reading scripture and we understand who God is,

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Speaker 2: is that the changes that happen in us when we

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Speaker 2: give ourselves to Jesus and submit ourselves to him and

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Speaker 2: read his word, they're not just kind of spiritual things

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Speaker 2: that buy you a place in heaven, that they're things

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Speaker 2: that change your expression of your biology, well, your wiring.

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Speaker 2: And so we know that we're neuroplastic. which means that

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Speaker 2: our brain isn't fixed, our thought patterns aren't fixed. Just

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Speaker 2: because we've inherited something, we've experienced something, doesn't mean that

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Speaker 2: it's a life sentence over us.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Love Life Sober. I'm your host and your coach,

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Speaker 3: Christy Osborne. This podcast is for the woman who loves

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Speaker 3: Jesus or is longing to reconnect with him and who

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Speaker 3: knows deep down that alcohol is no longer serving her.

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Speaker 3: Here we talk honestly with grace and truth about how

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Speaker 3: stepping away from alcohol opens the door to the love, joy, peace,

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Speaker 3: and connection you've been searching for. Because babe, those things

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Speaker 3: were never meant to be found in a bottle of wine.

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Speaker 3: They're found in Jesus. Through scripture, coaching, and neuroscience, I'll

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Speaker 3: help you make sense of your habits, your nervous system,

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Speaker 3: and what you're really craving so that freedom feels not

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Speaker 3: only possible, but sustainable. You don't have to do this alone, babe.

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Speaker 3: Let's dive in. Have you ever found yourself doing something

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Speaker 3: that you know you don't want to do anymore? Maybe

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Speaker 3: you've promised yourself that tonight you're not going to drink.

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Speaker 3: You've made a decision, you've prayed about it, and you've

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Speaker 3: told yourself that this time is going to be different.

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Speaker 3: Then five o'clock rolls around, the day has been stressful,

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Speaker 3: you're exhausted, maybe the kids are driving you nuts, and

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Speaker 3: before you know it, you're reaching for the wine again.

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Speaker 3: And afterwards, you're left wondering, why do I keep doing this?

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Speaker 3: What is wrong with me? Why can't I just stop?

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Speaker 3: And maybe because you're a woman who loves Jesus, there's

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Speaker 3: this other layer of shame. Because you know what scripture

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Speaker 3: says about renewing your mind, you know what you're supposed

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Speaker 3: to take those thoughts captive, and you know that Jesus

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Speaker 3: offers freedom. But how on earth do you actually do

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Speaker 3: that when you're overwhelmed, anxious, or in the middle of

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Speaker 3: a craving? Well, my beautiful friend, that is exactly what

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Speaker 3: we're talking about today on the podcast. I am joined

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Speaker 3: by my friend, the beautiful Jo Hargraves. You probably know

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Speaker 3: her as the Faith-Filled Therapist. She is a speaker, author,

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Speaker 3: and someone who has this incredible, incredible gift of bringing

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Speaker 3: neuroscience and biblical truth together. If you are a member

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Speaker 3: of the Love Life Sober community, you'll remember she did

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Speaker 3: a beautiful masterclass for us on biblical meditation. One of

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Speaker 3: the things I love most about Jo is that she

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Speaker 3: helps us understand that so much what we're learning about

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Speaker 3: the brain is actually confirming the things that God's been

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Speaker 3: telling us in his word all along. Like Romans 12 too,

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Speaker 3: which says to be transformed by the renewing of our minds.

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Speaker 3: But what does that actually look like? What is happening

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Speaker 3: in our brains when we start changing our thoughts? And

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Speaker 3: why is it so hard sometimes to do? Joe explains

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Speaker 3: something in this conversation that I think is going to

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Speaker 3: be a game changer for you. You cannot simply think

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Speaker 3: your way out of a dysregulated nervous system. In other words,

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Speaker 3: when you're feeling panicked, stressed, overwhelmed, or desperate for relief,

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Speaker 3: your brain isn't necessarily in a place where you can

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Speaker 3: access all of those wonderful truths that you know about God. Today,

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Speaker 3: we're talking about how to break those old thought loops.

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Speaker 3: why shame actually keeps us stuck, how scripture can help

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Speaker 3: us build new patterns of thinking, and why the things

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Speaker 3: we turn to for comfort, including alcohol, are so often

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Speaker 3: counterfeits for what we're really looking for. My beautiful, beautiful friend,

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Speaker 3: just because you've always thought a certain way, reacted a

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Speaker 3: certain way, or reached for alcohol in a certain situation

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Speaker 3: does not mean that that is how your story has

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Speaker 3: to continue. Your brain can change, your patterns can change,

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Speaker 3: and with God's help, your life can change. And as

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Speaker 3: Joe reminds us so beautifully in this episode, God is

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Speaker 3: not standing at a distance waiting for you to get

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Speaker 3: yourself together. He is right there with you, even in

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Speaker 3: the messiest moments. Okay, my beautiful friend, here is my

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Speaker 3: conversation with Joe Hargraves. Hi, my friend. It's so good

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Speaker 3: to see you. Hello.

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Speaker 1: Lovely to see you too.

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Speaker 3: How are you? I'm good. I feel like the last

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Speaker 3: time I saw you was Em's conference. And you have

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Speaker 3: so many things coming up. You've got your book coming

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Speaker 3: out while you're finishing your writing your book. You've got

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Speaker 3: you're at the orchard. You're doing that cool thing with Steve.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I just wanted to catch up with you and

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Speaker 3: record with you again because you're always so encouraging. You

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Speaker 3: did a beautiful masterclass for my community all on biblical meditation,

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Speaker 3: which keeps I mean, the gals keep listening to it,

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Speaker 3: keep referencing it as something that is so, so helpful.

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Speaker 3: But one of the things that I kind of wanted

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Speaker 3: to start with, tell us about the witchcraft class. Tell

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Speaker 3: us about that moment where God spoke to you because

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Speaker 3: it has literally led to this incredible ministry that you have.

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Speaker 3: I just want to hear about the beginning for a minute.

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Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, God's been outrageously kind to me. Of course he

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Speaker 2: has because that's who he is. And I sometimes find

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Speaker 2: it hard to piece together my testimony because my childhood

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Speaker 2: was a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Here, there and everywhere, moving around, quite dysfunctional.

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Speaker 2: Divorces remarriages with my parents and all that kind of

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Speaker 2: thing but all all along I my mom did a

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Speaker 2: great job of giving me an understanding of who Jesus

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Speaker 2: was she gave me a good understanding and he was

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Speaker 2: talked about in our house we didn't go to church

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Speaker 2: we did for a little bit because I really didn't

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Speaker 2: like it and I mean if you want to get

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Speaker 2: into my testimony I did find myself um often sitting

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Speaker 2: at the back of the church of the city. When

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Speaker 2: I was a teenager, I lived in a place called

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Speaker 2: Southwell and they've got a big, beautiful minster in Nottingham.

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Speaker 2: And I used to go and sit there and do

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Speaker 2: the whole kind of like shout at God in my head,

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Speaker 2: you know, if you're real type thing. I also would

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Speaker 2: clean the church offices at that church. And I've actually

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Speaker 2: never publicly acknowledged this. And Hopefully I don't get arrested

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Speaker 2: after this. But I did used to do that. But

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Speaker 2: I also used to steal a lot because we didn't

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Speaker 2: have a lot of money growing up.

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Speaker 1: And so I did used to steal a lot.

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Speaker 2: And I've really said sorry to God for the things

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Speaker 2: that I did growing up. And so when I arrived

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Speaker 2: at university, there were two Joes. There was Christian Joe,

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Speaker 2: which wasn't me. And there was Criminal Joe.

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Speaker 3: Which was me.

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Speaker 1: They were the nicknames.

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Speaker 2: That's how they differentiated me and this other lovely guy

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Speaker 2: called Joe, Joseph, criminal Joe and Christian Joe. I used

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Speaker 2: to laugh at it, but part of me used to think, oh, actually,

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Speaker 2: I'd much rather.

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Speaker 1: Be Christian Joe.

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Speaker 2: And so at uni, I mean, I still behaved hedonistically,

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Speaker 2: did whatever I wanted, really. Though I did have an

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Speaker 2: understanding of who Jesus was, but no understanding of being

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Speaker 2: a disciple, no understanding of any of that. And then

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Speaker 2: I had a great group of friends, but we were.

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Speaker 1: Very, very into.

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Speaker 2: Bristol in the early 2000s was very much all about

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Speaker 2: the drum and bass scene, the club scene.

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Speaker 1: And we were very much into that.

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Speaker 2: And one particular night, my friend had got a load

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Speaker 2: of inheritance from her mum. She got a load of

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Speaker 2: inheritance and we squandered it. Very much prodigal son type stuff.

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Speaker 2: We squandered it on drugs and staying in hotels in

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Speaker 2: town and all that kind of stuff. And this particular

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Speaker 2: night we were taking cocaine in a club called The Thecla.

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Speaker 1: I just knew I had to get out of there.

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Speaker 1: I didn't even say goodbye to my friends. I got

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Speaker 1: up and I walked out.

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Speaker 2: And I was actually listening to somebody's testimony the other

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Speaker 2: day who was fairly similar because God's doing this stuff

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Speaker 2: even now. And I love that. And I heard his

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Speaker 2: voice and I know his voice now. I heard his

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Speaker 2: voice in my head. Joanna, this is not the life

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Speaker 2: I have for you. And that was a immediate life change.

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Speaker 2: There had been things going on in the background, but

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Speaker 2: that was an immediate life change for me and a

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Speaker 2: redirection and just shown me the goodness of God, how

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Speaker 2: he can really course direct your life. And I think

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Speaker 2: about who I would be now without that. And I

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Speaker 2: don't think I'd really, I really need Jesus.

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Speaker 1: I really need Jesus. I don't think I'd love who

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Speaker 1: I was if I didn't have Jesus in my life.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. And you speak about hearing your name, Joanna. as

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Speaker 3: with compassion and grace for maybe one of the first

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Speaker 3: times and how that was so impactful for you.

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Speaker 2: It really was impactful because My mum and my mum's

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Speaker 2: side of the family, they'd always called me Jojo. And so,

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Speaker 2: but my dad would call me Joanna, particularly when he

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Speaker 2: was cross. Just hearing him say my name. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I love my dad. I'm actually flying out to see

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Speaker 2: my dad in Singapore just for a couple of days

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Speaker 2: soon because we're kind of, our paths are crossing and

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Speaker 2: I'm so looking forward to seeing him.

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Speaker 1: But he really scared me growing up.

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Speaker 2: And so hearing my name, that sound of hearing your

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Speaker 2: name and your stomach flipping over and that kind of

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Speaker 2: shot of adrenaline of what have I done now and

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Speaker 2: that kind of thing. But actually then hearing God saying

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Speaker 2: my name, Joanna, with kindness and compassion, it wasn't really

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Speaker 2: till afterwards that I noted the importance of that, of

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Speaker 2: him speaking my name over me and reminding.

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Speaker 1: Me who I am.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that part so much. And I related

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Speaker 3: to that when I listened to it because of so

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Speaker 3: many reasons, but hearing God say, this is not what

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Speaker 3: I have for you. This is, I've got more for you.

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Speaker 3: And from there, created this incredible ministry where you are

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Speaker 3: the expert on neuroscience. And what I remember when I

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Speaker 3: did my coach training for becoming a sobriety coach, all

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Speaker 3: of the things, it was very similar, like all of

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Speaker 3: the things that were resonating, I was like, hmm, that's weird.

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Speaker 3: And this was a secular self-help life coaching certification. And

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Speaker 3: I'm like, this is already in the Bible. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: So I love that so much and I relate to

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Speaker 3: that so much. Can you tell a little bit about

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Speaker 3: the course you had where you were supposed to like

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Speaker 3: write a spell?

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Speaker 2: Yes. Oh, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So this is at university. So I'm at university in Bristol.

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Speaker 2: Bristol's very, if you've been there, city in the UK,

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Speaker 2: gorgeous city.

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Speaker 1: I love it.

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Speaker 2: But it has a load of kind of load of

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Speaker 2: pagan stuff going on. It's very kind of like academic

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Speaker 2: bohemian type vibe, I would say. And I was doing

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Speaker 2: my degree. I was doing a degree in sociology. And

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Speaker 2: one of my modules was called Magic, Mystery and Modernity.

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Speaker 2: And I had this very kind of what I guess

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Speaker 2: what we would call woke now maybe, but very kind

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Speaker 2: of like certain kind of professor who I think he

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Speaker 2: called himself a druid.

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Speaker 1: He was definitely into the new age and that kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. And he was very open about it.

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Speaker 2: I remember sitting in his lectures and thinking, Yeah, this

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Speaker 2: makes sense. I remember him even talking about Satan and

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Speaker 2: thinking the way he sold Satanism was fascinating because I

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Speaker 2: remember thinking, oh, that doesn't even sound that bad. And

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Speaker 2: I mean, I actually get goosebumps as I say that

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Speaker 2: as the level of deception that people can get bought

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Speaker 2: into just by going, oh, that sounds all right.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I've misunderstood it.

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Speaker 2: I feel like I have such a radar for those

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Speaker 2: things now. As soon as I hear them, I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 2: that is a deception. And I see so many people,

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Speaker 2: myself very much included historically, who have fallen under those

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Speaker 2: types of deceptions and just need to bring themselves under

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Speaker 2: the truth and ask Jesus to show them the truth

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Speaker 2: and the truth.

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Speaker 1: Will set them free.

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Speaker 2: But I was interested in doing this, that we had

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Speaker 2: to do a spell. Rather than do a piece of coursework,

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Speaker 2: I guess he thought he was being very kind of progressive.

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Speaker 2: That's what we were set to do was a spell.

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Speaker 2: But just before I was set to do that, I'd

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Speaker 2: always struggled with my tonsils. But I got glandular fever

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Speaker 2: and I really wasn't very well. And it was advised.

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Speaker 2: I was just missing so much time.

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Speaker 1: I was so exhausted.

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Speaker 2: I resit that year. So I just let the rest

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Speaker 2: of the year go and I resit that year. And

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Speaker 2: that was God's protection. That was God's hand on me.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely no, because it would have opened a doorway, I think,

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Speaker 2: that would have taken me down a different path. And

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Speaker 2: when I went back and went back to resit my year,

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Speaker 2: two things happened. One, that module didn't exist anymore. And

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Speaker 2: they said, oh, you can't do that module. So I

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Speaker 2: ended up doing another module. I can't remember what it

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Speaker 2: was called, the module that I did. But I ended

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Speaker 2: up being on that with a woman called Libby, who

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Speaker 2: is now still one of my best friends. You know,

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Speaker 2: 20 something years later, there was just something about her.

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Speaker 2: I assumed that she had rich parents or famous parents

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Speaker 2: or something like that, because there was just something about her.

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Speaker 2: And I realized it was Jesus. And she was the

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Speaker 2: first person to take me to church. She taught me

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Speaker 2: about I was listening to all of this music and

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Speaker 2: she said, oh, you shouldn't listen to that.

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Speaker 1: Listen to Delirious. And I was like, what? If there's

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Speaker 1: Christian music? I had no idea.

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Speaker 2: She sat me down in her uni flat and taught

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Speaker 2: me about the book of Revelation, which is fascinating. And

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Speaker 2: I was like, no way. It's actually then she was

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Speaker 2: telling me about Revelation.

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Speaker 1: Which is true.

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Speaker 2: And thinking, okay, wow, this is incredible. And everything kind

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Speaker 2: of came together in my world. And really Jesus began

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Speaker 2: to show me truth. And it was that truth that

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Speaker 2: set me free.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that so much. I was listening to

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Speaker 3: Have you come across Krista Singh?

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 3: She's in the States. She was like this massive, popular

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Speaker 3: Christian singer. She like toured with Michael W.

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Speaker 1: Smith.

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Speaker 3: Anyways, then she went like really into the new age

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Speaker 3: and she was on Christopher Cook's podcast. I was listening

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Speaker 3: to it recently and she was literally breaking down like

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Speaker 3: the ayahuasca ceremonies and all of these things that she

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Speaker 3: did and how basically, I mean, now we're going crazy deep,

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Speaker 3: but like the demons basically are showing you Giving you

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Speaker 3: these things truly to make you worship them, but worship

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Speaker 3: yourself like anything to distract you from Jesus.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: And it's just the most wild podcast. But for us,

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Speaker 3: for the women that we're speaking to, I think there's

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Speaker 3: things that we talk about a lot that kind of

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Speaker 3: have been hijacked by the new age, right? Which is

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Speaker 3: breathwork and manifestation and all of these things that are

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Speaker 3: actually in the Bible. Gratitude. And it works, too. Like

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Speaker 3: if you look at gratitude, right, and you look at

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Speaker 3: breath work, manifestation works for a different reason, I learned.

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Speaker 3: Very scary. But what would you say is the passion

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Speaker 3: to talk to women about these things, obviously to lead

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Speaker 3: them to Jesus, but also to show them that they

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Speaker 3: can lead you in a different direction?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, a hundred percent that it's a counterfeit.

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Speaker 2: And like you said, manifestation, when you actually look at

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Speaker 2: how the brain works and how we're actually, what we

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Speaker 2: meditate on, we magnify in the way that the different

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Speaker 2: parts of our brain kind of look for evidence of

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Speaker 2: what we've already told it to be true.

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Speaker 1: There is a level of, I.

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Speaker 2: Can see how that can happen, but it's only a

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Speaker 2: counterfeit of what God's given us. It's a counterfeit of

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Speaker 2: how he's designed us. And It will never come with

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Speaker 2: the true freedom that Jesus has bought for us.

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Speaker 3: We'll be back right after a quick word from our sponsors.

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Speaker 2: I see it all the time with false ideologies, false isms.

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Speaker 2: You know, I was really into the kind of feminism thing.

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Speaker 2: And I look at that now and where that's taken us.

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Speaker 2: I mean, like you said, we've got really, really deep now.

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Speaker 2: But even looking at the Lindsay Clancy case and thinking...

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Speaker 2: oh my goodness me, look at where this has taken us.

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Speaker 2: And these aren't things that I'm stood out of judging.

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Speaker 2: These are things that I very much wave the flag

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Speaker 2: off of like, I will wave the flag of this

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Speaker 2: and I wave the flag of that. And I see

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Speaker 2: that they're all counterfeits, like you said, to distract us.

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Speaker 2: They sound so much easier than the gospel in some ways.

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Speaker 2: They sound so much easier than picking up your cross,

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Speaker 2: denying yourself. Famous poet yesterday, I just Well, he's kind

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Speaker 2: of getting famous on Instagram and.

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Speaker 1: I love his work.

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Speaker 2: He writes beautiful poetry, but I heard a conversation with

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Speaker 2: him and Fern Cotton. And I utterly disagreed with nearly

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Speaker 2: everything he said, because he's going, oh, as if God

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Speaker 2: would care about this sin in your life. He didn't

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Speaker 2: even talk about sin. He was like, as if God

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Speaker 2: cares about that. And I was like, God deeply cares

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Speaker 2: about that. Because if we're saying, oh, you know, you

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Speaker 2: can live like this and you can do this and

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Speaker 2: you can follow this counterfeit, you're almost saying, well, what

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Speaker 2: Jesus did was pointless. We need what Jesus did on

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Speaker 2: the cross for us because we are such sinners. But

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Speaker 2: I remember saying, Not recently, but, you know, in my

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Speaker 2: adult past, preaching at a church, I've been asked to

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Speaker 2: go and preach at a very progressive church on original

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Speaker 2: goodness rather than original sin. And I put something together

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Speaker 2: and I look back now and I think that was wrong.

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Speaker 2: What I say about myself is, Lord, have mercy on me,

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Speaker 2: a sinner. I need Jesus and we need Jesus and

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Speaker 2: the world will offer us all kinds of counterfeits. But

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Speaker 2: it's all about Jesus and what he did for us

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Speaker 2: on the cross because we are sinners in need of

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Speaker 2: a savior. And I'm more comfortable saying that than I've

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Speaker 2: ever been.

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Speaker 1: We're sinners and we need a savior.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm right there with you. And I think that

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Speaker 3: is exactly, I remember just opening my Bible and like

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Speaker 3: weeping and like reading about Mary Magdalene and thinking, oh

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Speaker 3: my gosh, if he cares about her and if she

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Speaker 3: can be redeemed, so can I. I just, sometimes I

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Speaker 3: think when I think about my kids, You know, you

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Speaker 3: pray for their protection and you don't want anything bad

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Speaker 3: to happen to them and you don't want them to

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Speaker 3: make any mistakes and you don't want them to steal

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Speaker 3: and you don't want them to get hooked on alcohol

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Speaker 3: and all the things. But it was that path of

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Speaker 3: like being so far from God and so broken and

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Speaker 3: using these counterfeit comforts that like brought me to my knees.

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Speaker 3: And my mom, she is the one that gave me

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Speaker 3: that foundation, but I knew exactly where to go When

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Speaker 3: I was feeling so broken, but I also don't think

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Speaker 3: that I would have gotten there without the level of sin.

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Speaker 3: Does that make sense?

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Speaker 1: Yes, I do. I really get it.

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Speaker 2: And I love what you said about redemption. And I

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Speaker 2: love that phrase, counterfeit comforts. I feel like that could

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Speaker 2: be your next book. I mean, that's such a good title.

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Speaker 2: But that's exactly what we do. We have our own

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Speaker 2: weapons of mass distraction, counterfeit comforts, like you said, all

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Speaker 2: of these things just feel good to the flesh, don't they?

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Speaker 2: They do, but they don't lead us into the freedom

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Speaker 2: that Jesus has for us. And I love what you

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Speaker 2: say about redemption, that it doesn't matter. Anybody who's listening

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Speaker 2: to this who thinks, I'm in the trenches of all

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Speaker 2: of this. My life is full of counterfeit comfort and

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Speaker 2: all of these things.

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Speaker 1: Well, there's good news.

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Speaker 2: There's good news for you wherever you are, however deep

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Speaker 2: you are into it. And maybe it's my Instagram algorithm,

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Speaker 2: but I definitely think Jesus is doing something in the

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Speaker 2: world of the new age of people who have gone

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Speaker 2: off there, maybe found church. And there's a lot for

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Speaker 2: churches to think about this. And I think about this

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Speaker 2: as a lot as a church leader who have found

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Speaker 2: church too much to deal with the spirit and maybe

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Speaker 2: haven't dealt with the body and the soul, or maybe

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Speaker 2: have talked a lot about the soul, but haven't really

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Speaker 2: gone into the spiritual term side of things. So they've

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Speaker 2: gone off somewhere else to kind of get that understanding.

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Speaker 2: And I can see why that's attractive, but I can

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Speaker 2: see that Jesus is bringing people back now to the

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Speaker 2: truth of who he is.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I totally agree with that. And so let's talk

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Speaker 3: a minute to the gal who feels, okay, I want that.

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Speaker 3: I want to get back on track. I want to

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Speaker 3: start believing the truth and I want to believe in

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Speaker 3: the blood of Jesus and all of these things that

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Speaker 3: maybe I know or I'm trying to remember and reconnect with.

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Speaker 3: This is where neuroplasticity, which is your area of expertise

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Speaker 3: and comes in so, so, so importantly handy. Can we

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Speaker 3: just go there and talk about how God helps us

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Speaker 3: break these patterns and stop relying on the counterfeit comforts

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Speaker 3: and start being able to tune our brains into his

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Speaker 3: truth by renewing our mind? Like, why is that so important?

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Speaker 3: And how do we do that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because this stuff, the things that we, the thing

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Speaker 2: that we learn and understand as we're reading scripture and

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Speaker 2: we understand who God is, is that what happens in us,

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Speaker 2: the changes that happen in us when we give ourselves

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Speaker 2: to Jesus and submit ourselves to him and read his word,

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Speaker 2: they're not just kind of spiritual things that buy you

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Speaker 2: a place in heaven, that they're things that change your

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Speaker 2: expression of your biology, well, your wiring. And so we

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Speaker 2: know that we're neuroplastic. which means that our brain isn't fixed,

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Speaker 2: our thought patterns aren't fixed. Just because we've inherited something,

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Speaker 2: we've experienced something, doesn't mean that it's a life sentence

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Speaker 2: over us. And I use this phrase, you have a predisposition,

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Speaker 2: but it's not your predestination. And so I did. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I talk about Criminal Joe and I look at actually

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Speaker 2: my dad's, maybe my dad actually, and one of my

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Speaker 2: brothers who was in prison and think, oh, maybe there

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Speaker 2: was a bit of a predisposition there. but actually it

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Speaker 2: doesn't have to be my predestination. It doesn't have to

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Speaker 2: be the story that's written over me. And that's not

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Speaker 2: some kind of just nice thing, you know, nice little

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Speaker 2: thing that we read that gives us hope that happens

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Speaker 2: at a neurobiological level in your brain. So when you

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Speaker 2: begin to meditate on scripture, read God's word, thought patterns

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Speaker 2: that you've had for years that aren't in line with

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Speaker 2: his truth can begin.

436
00:20:57,350 --> 00:20:59,100
Speaker 1: To rewire, reshape.

437
00:20:59,140 --> 00:21:01,620
Speaker 2: You can tear down old toxic thoughts, build up new

438
00:21:01,740 --> 00:21:04,480
Speaker 2: healthy ones. And so God's word to us is a

439
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,780
Speaker 2: gift in so many ways, but it's a huge gift

440
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,619
Speaker 2: to us in terms of doing what Romans 12 says,

441
00:21:10,790 --> 00:21:12,370
Speaker 2: being transformed.

442
00:21:11,830 --> 00:21:13,189
Speaker 1: By the renewing of your mind.

443
00:21:13,690 --> 00:21:17,169
Speaker 2: And so I remember when I, in that university house

444
00:21:17,310 --> 00:21:17,990
Speaker 2: in Bristol.

445
00:21:18,869 --> 00:21:19,630
Speaker 1: I prayed.

446
00:21:19,850 --> 00:21:22,070
Speaker 2: I became a Christian. I prayed that I could live

447
00:21:22,109 --> 00:21:24,340
Speaker 2: somewhere else. I lived with lovely, lovely people, but they

448
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:29,640
Speaker 2: were dealing drugs. There were parties. It was hedonistic and messy.

449
00:21:29,740 --> 00:21:31,679
Speaker 2: That's what we used to call it. Oh, it was messy.

450
00:21:32,430 --> 00:21:34,889
Speaker 1: And I prayed. I said to God, please find me

451
00:21:34,930 --> 00:21:35,470
Speaker 1: somewhere else.

452
00:21:36,010 --> 00:21:39,330
Speaker 2: And that literally the same day, my mum was there.

453
00:21:39,369 --> 00:21:41,149
Speaker 2: And I remember literally the same day I got a

454
00:21:41,150 --> 00:21:43,540
Speaker 2: phone call from Libby. And she said, I'm going to

455
00:21:43,580 --> 00:21:45,239
Speaker 2: Manchester because she was going to go and work with

456
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 2: The Message, her husband's part of LZ7, which is a

457
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,180
Speaker 2: band in the UK. And she said, I'm going to

458
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 2: go to Manchester because Louis is going up to work

459
00:21:53,820 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 2: in The Message. So I have a room free in

460
00:21:55,619 --> 00:21:58,060
Speaker 2: this Christian house. Would you like to come live in it?

461
00:21:58,100 --> 00:21:59,980
Speaker 2: And I was like, yes, thank you, God, you know.

462
00:22:00,410 --> 00:22:01,129
Speaker 1: Answer my prayer.

463
00:22:01,170 --> 00:22:04,369
Speaker 2: And so God will do incredible things like that in

464
00:22:04,869 --> 00:22:08,260
Speaker 2: your outer world, but also incredible things in your inner

465
00:22:08,300 --> 00:22:10,680
Speaker 2: world to help you be transformed by the renewing of

466
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,260
Speaker 2: your mind. And so in that new house, I just

467
00:22:13,700 --> 00:22:16,320
Speaker 2: used to read God's word. They were all expecting some

468
00:22:16,380 --> 00:22:20,540
Speaker 2: big hedonist to land on their doorstep. I used to

469
00:22:20,580 --> 00:22:22,720
Speaker 2: stay in my room and I just used to read

470
00:22:22,820 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 2: the Bible and I used to write out Bible verses

471
00:22:25,900 --> 00:22:27,879
Speaker 2: and put them on sticky notes and write them down.

472
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,510
Speaker 2: And I honestly think that stood me in good stead

473
00:22:31,050 --> 00:22:33,810
Speaker 2: for now, like 20 years later. And that's why I

474
00:22:33,830 --> 00:22:35,909
Speaker 2: feel quite passionate about God's Word. I mean, I'm not

475
00:22:35,950 --> 00:22:38,130
Speaker 2: always great at reading it, I'll be totally honest, but

476
00:22:38,670 --> 00:22:41,630
Speaker 2: there's nothing else that transforms me more than reading God's Word.

477
00:22:41,670 --> 00:22:43,490
Speaker 2: And that'll be the same for, like you said, for

478
00:22:43,530 --> 00:22:46,629
Speaker 2: the woman who's thinking, where do I start? Start in

479
00:22:46,670 --> 00:22:49,550
Speaker 2: the Psalms, start in the Gospels, start in the book

480
00:22:49,590 --> 00:22:51,770
Speaker 2: of Colossians, which I love, which is all about fixing

481
00:22:51,790 --> 00:22:54,429
Speaker 2: your eyes on things above, not on earthly things, and

482
00:22:54,470 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 2: let it transform you at every level of your being.

483
00:22:57,570 --> 00:23:01,170
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's so, so true. We'll be back right

484
00:23:01,230 --> 00:23:03,929
Speaker 3: after a quick word from our sponsors. Babe, can I

485
00:23:03,970 --> 00:23:06,530
Speaker 3: pause this just for a moment? If you're listening to

486
00:23:06,550 --> 00:23:09,250
Speaker 3: this and thinking, I don't want to do this alone anymore,

487
00:23:09,810 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 3: I want to tell you about the Love Life Sober community.

488
00:23:12,940 --> 00:23:15,480
Speaker 3: This is the space where the podcast turns into real

489
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,700
Speaker 3: connection and real support. Inside the community, we gather weekly

490
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,959
Speaker 3: for live connection calls where you can listen, share, or

491
00:23:23,060 --> 00:23:26,400
Speaker 3: simply just be present. There's a beautiful leadership team who

492
00:23:26,460 --> 00:23:29,980
Speaker 3: hold this space with wisdom and care, a dedicated prayer

493
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:34,650
Speaker 3: request area, regular masterclasses led by expert guests, and even

494
00:23:34,690 --> 00:23:37,770
Speaker 3: a worship music playlist to help you reconnect when your

495
00:23:37,810 --> 00:23:41,070
Speaker 3: nervous system needs it. There's also a dedicated coaching space

496
00:23:41,130 --> 00:23:44,169
Speaker 3: called True Vine for women who want even deeper support.

497
00:23:44,670 --> 00:23:47,060
Speaker 3: The Love Life Sober community is a place to connect

498
00:23:47,100 --> 00:23:49,580
Speaker 3: with like-minded women and open up in a way you

499
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,140
Speaker 3: might not be able to in your church or small group.

500
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,770
Speaker 3: This space was specifically created for women who are questioning

501
00:23:55,810 --> 00:23:58,409
Speaker 3: their relationship with alcohol and who want the kind of

502
00:23:58,450 --> 00:24:01,250
Speaker 3: freedom that only can be found in Jesus. All the

503
00:24:01,290 --> 00:24:03,090
Speaker 3: details to join us are at the link in the

504
00:24:03,130 --> 00:24:05,770
Speaker 3: show notes. I can't wait to meet you. Let's jump

505
00:24:05,810 --> 00:24:08,190
Speaker 3: back into the episode. I think one of the parts

506
00:24:08,250 --> 00:24:11,790
Speaker 3: that I was missing and definitely the part that was

507
00:24:12,170 --> 00:24:16,130
Speaker 3: in the secular, the whole certification thing that was missing,

508
00:24:16,150 --> 00:24:19,300
Speaker 3: I think they're better about it now because we're getting

509
00:24:19,340 --> 00:24:22,470
Speaker 3: wiser on how the brain works. However, You talk about

510
00:24:22,550 --> 00:24:26,490
Speaker 3: notice naming and reframing. And I think you also talk

511
00:24:26,510 --> 00:24:28,969
Speaker 3: about getting to the reframe part of it, right? Which

512
00:24:29,030 --> 00:24:33,340
Speaker 3: is finding God's truth is a lot harder when you're dysregulated, right?

513
00:24:33,380 --> 00:24:37,160
Speaker 3: It's almost impossible. A wonderful gal in our community yesterday

514
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 3: on a call said I was sitting in a CVS,

515
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 3: so like a drugstore boots equivalent parking lot. And I

516
00:24:43,380 --> 00:24:45,540
Speaker 3: was like, Holy Spirit, Holy Spirit, I don't want to

517
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,020
Speaker 3: buy the wine. I don't want to buy the wine.

518
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:48,980
Speaker 3: I don't want to buy the wine. But she had

519
00:24:49,020 --> 00:24:51,980
Speaker 3: been in that place so many times before where the

520
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,020
Speaker 3: amygdala just took over, right? It was, you don't even

521
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,310
Speaker 3: get to the point where you can argue with the

522
00:24:57,350 --> 00:25:00,850
Speaker 3: wine craving because you're feeling that sense of panic and

523
00:25:00,890 --> 00:25:03,830
Speaker 3: the cortisol is surging and all of the things. So

524
00:25:03,869 --> 00:25:08,270
Speaker 3: can you talk about being dysregulated and maybe a few

525
00:25:08,310 --> 00:25:11,540
Speaker 3: ways that we can get ourselves back to being regulated?

526
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.

527
00:25:13,660 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 2: And my heart goes out to that woman and to

528
00:25:16,619 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 2: any of us who've ever experienced that feeling and and

529
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,540
Speaker 2: it's likely I mean I was meant to be fasting

530
00:25:22,580 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 2: yesterday at church I was meant to be fasting and

531
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 2: I could just think about this chocolate bar that was

532
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,679
Speaker 2: in the fridge and it consumes you doesn't it and

533
00:25:29,700 --> 00:25:32,590
Speaker 2: it's different alcohol has it's it's a different level isn't

534
00:25:32,609 --> 00:25:35,230
Speaker 2: it because it creates more chaos in your life but

535
00:25:35,350 --> 00:25:37,830
Speaker 2: it's it's a similar thing isn't it of but then

536
00:25:37,890 --> 00:25:39,970
Speaker 2: that takes us back so what I don't want to

537
00:25:40,010 --> 00:25:42,940
Speaker 2: do is oh you were thinking about you were thinking

538
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 2: about alcohol or you're thinking about doing this.

539
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:45,460
Speaker 1: You sinner.

540
00:25:46,100 --> 00:25:48,810
Speaker 2: That's not it at all. But it is helpful within

541
00:25:48,850 --> 00:25:51,429
Speaker 2: that to think, oh, I need a saviour. cannot do

542
00:25:51,470 --> 00:25:53,850
Speaker 2: this by myself like the AA says we need a

543
00:25:53,890 --> 00:25:56,660
Speaker 2: higher power they haven't quite nailed you know their colors

544
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:58,260
Speaker 2: to the mast in terms of who that is you

545
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 2: know that's Jesus Christ who died on a cross and

546
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,260
Speaker 2: rose again and ascended and seated at the right hand

547
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 2: of the father praying for you dysregulation is so real

548
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 2: and that notice name reframe I've actually expanded it because

549
00:26:11,859 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 2: I think it needs to be notice name regulate reframe

550
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,570
Speaker 2: because you cannot reframe something when you're dysregulated You can

551
00:26:19,609 --> 00:26:21,969
Speaker 2: have all the best intentions. You could have written out

552
00:26:22,010 --> 00:26:25,010
Speaker 2: your 10-step plan. You could have done all of the

553
00:26:25,070 --> 00:26:28,430
Speaker 2: things that a functional, good Christian woman does and still

554
00:26:28,490 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 2: find yourself not being able to access that reframe because

555
00:26:31,060 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 2: you're so dysregulated. And that isn't just an emotional thing

556
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 2: of like, oh, I'm too emotional. That's all about your

557
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,060
Speaker 2: wider nervous system is that, like you said, your amygdala,

558
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 2: that when you feel any sense of threat, when you

559
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,510
Speaker 2: feel dysregulated, the limbic system, the emotional part of your

560
00:26:46,550 --> 00:26:50,390
Speaker 2: brain really does take over. and your thinking brain goes

561
00:26:50,470 --> 00:26:54,310
Speaker 2: somewhat offline or it's harder to access, being able to

562
00:26:54,490 --> 00:26:57,590
Speaker 2: regulate yourself in that moment so you can actually receive

563
00:26:57,630 --> 00:26:59,050
Speaker 2: the reframe is very helpful.

564
00:27:00,250 --> 00:27:03,109
Speaker 1: You can do that through a number of ways. Deep breath.

565
00:27:03,210 --> 00:27:05,390
Speaker 2: It's usually body ways. It's usually getting out of your

566
00:27:05,430 --> 00:27:06,690
Speaker 2: head into your body.

567
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:07,820
Speaker 1: So deep breath.

568
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,380
Speaker 2: It could even be, you know, a butterfly hug, like

569
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,780
Speaker 2: applying firm pressure here. And we don't find that anywhere

570
00:27:14,820 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 2: in the Bible, but that's to do with our design

571
00:27:17,180 --> 00:27:20,409
Speaker 2: that actually that's bilateral stimulation and it's all about a

572
00:27:20,490 --> 00:27:23,350
Speaker 2: safety signal for your brain. I think it's really good

573
00:27:23,390 --> 00:27:26,490
Speaker 2: to ask ourself the question when we're in those states

574
00:27:26,570 --> 00:27:29,859
Speaker 2: of like, what am I threatened by? What's going on

575
00:27:29,890 --> 00:27:33,140
Speaker 2: for me? What's the wider narrative? And just begin to

576
00:27:33,660 --> 00:27:38,939
Speaker 2: regulate ourself. Gratitude is regulating. Meditating on a scripture is regulating.

577
00:27:38,980 --> 00:27:43,190
Speaker 2: I've said before, Psalm 23, I was in all last year.

578
00:27:43,250 --> 00:27:46,380
Speaker 2: This year, I'm very much in Romans 8, 38. No

579
00:27:46,420 --> 00:27:48,420
Speaker 2: thing can separate me from the love of God that's

580
00:27:48,460 --> 00:27:51,780
Speaker 2: in Christ Jesus. And when you access truth like that,

581
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,990
Speaker 2: not only something happens in your spirit, because it's a

582
00:27:54,050 --> 00:27:58,070
Speaker 2: biblical truth, but you almost bring that, it's too simple

583
00:27:58,109 --> 00:27:59,629
Speaker 2: to say it this way, but it kind of is

584
00:27:59,690 --> 00:28:02,190
Speaker 2: like this. You almost bring that thinking brain back online

585
00:28:02,570 --> 00:28:05,409
Speaker 2: by being able to focus and fix your attention. And

586
00:28:05,430 --> 00:28:07,360
Speaker 2: you see that all the way throughout the Psalms, actually.

587
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,020
Speaker 2: This is what I'm writing on at the minute, is

588
00:28:10,060 --> 00:28:12,980
Speaker 2: that David would talk about how fearful he is, or

589
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 2: he would talk about what's going on. He wouldn't deny it.

590
00:28:15,530 --> 00:28:17,810
Speaker 2: But then he'd reframe it, wouldn't he? He'd say, and

591
00:28:17,869 --> 00:28:19,230
Speaker 2: yet still will I worship.

592
00:28:19,710 --> 00:28:22,250
Speaker 1: But I do think being able to regulate ourselves.

593
00:28:22,890 --> 00:28:26,310
Speaker 2: And with compassion. Kristen Neff is, she's not a follower

594
00:28:26,330 --> 00:28:29,650
Speaker 2: of Jesus, I don't think. She's fairly new age, I think.

595
00:28:30,030 --> 00:28:32,930
Speaker 2: But some of her studies on compassion is really powerful.

596
00:28:33,390 --> 00:28:36,870
Speaker 2: That actually you do much better to make good life-changing,

597
00:28:36,950 --> 00:28:39,270
Speaker 2: healthy choices for yourself if you can do so with

598
00:28:39,310 --> 00:28:42,110
Speaker 2: a compassionate frame. And we don't need that God is

599
00:28:42,130 --> 00:28:44,850
Speaker 2: slow to anger, abounding in love, full of compassion. I

600
00:28:44,890 --> 00:28:46,810
Speaker 2: know when you're addicted to something or when you feel

601
00:28:46,850 --> 00:28:48,850
Speaker 2: like something's an idol in your life, it can be

602
00:28:48,890 --> 00:28:51,650
Speaker 2: hard to be compassionate towards yourself because you're really, I

603
00:28:51,670 --> 00:28:53,010
Speaker 2: feel like there's been times in my life where I

604
00:28:53,020 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 2: feel like I've hated myself. I'm like, I hate this

605
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 2: about me. I hate that I have to battle with this.

606
00:28:58,700 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 2: Whereas actually that puts you more into threat mode. It's

607
00:29:01,340 --> 00:29:04,630
Speaker 2: more dysregulating and that compassion is very helpful.

608
00:29:05,030 --> 00:29:08,470
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. And then you're opening the door for the

609
00:29:09,210 --> 00:29:12,460
Speaker 3: the shame thoughts, right? Which are likely from the enemy.

610
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,900
Speaker 3: If they're not from you, they're from the enemy. And

611
00:29:15,180 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 3: so it doesn't even give you the opportunity to, it

612
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,210
Speaker 3: doesn't even give you the opportunity to do this work, right?

613
00:29:21,250 --> 00:29:22,820
Speaker 3: When you're stuck in the shame piece of it.

614
00:29:22,830 --> 00:29:23,910
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.

615
00:29:23,970 --> 00:29:27,780
Speaker 2: That really is, shame is really detrimental to our thinking.

616
00:29:28,150 --> 00:29:31,530
Speaker 2: What I think is really helpful is instead of creating

617
00:29:31,590 --> 00:29:34,660
Speaker 2: a story about yourself, I am the worst woman, I

618
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,530
Speaker 2: can't believe I'm here again, you know, those stories, those

619
00:29:37,590 --> 00:29:40,650
Speaker 2: shame-based stories like you say that we can create is

620
00:29:40,690 --> 00:29:41,890
Speaker 2: actually notice your state.

621
00:29:42,590 --> 00:29:45,670
Speaker 1: I am in a place of hyper arousal. I am overwhelmed.

622
00:29:45,710 --> 00:29:46,410
Speaker 1: I'm anxious.

623
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 2: I'm trying to bring myself down and alcohol is the

624
00:29:49,180 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 2: way that I can do it. In a disconnected state,

625
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:53,500
Speaker 2: I'm hypo aroused.

626
00:29:53,540 --> 00:29:53,980
Speaker 1: I'm flat.

627
00:29:54,060 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 2: I'm numb.

628
00:29:54,540 --> 00:29:55,180
Speaker 1: I'm depressed.

629
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 2: And so I'm trying to regulate myself that way. Whereas

630
00:29:58,740 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 2: actually Christ in himself is incredibly regulating. Just the fact

631
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 2: that he's kind and gracious and steady. All of those

632
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 2: things are very regulating in and of themselves.

633
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,780
Speaker 3: Yeah. And I heard you recently say something to the

634
00:30:12,820 --> 00:30:16,510
Speaker 3: effect of, you know, our non-Christian friends might find that

635
00:30:16,530 --> 00:30:18,970
Speaker 3: a God that calls you to worship all the time

636
00:30:18,990 --> 00:30:25,770
Speaker 3: is an egomaniac. But actually it's for us. Absolutely. Absolutely.

637
00:30:26,190 --> 00:30:28,110
Speaker 2: Yeah, you could think, who is this God that you

638
00:30:28,150 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 2: worship that demands that you worship him and praise him?

639
00:30:31,180 --> 00:30:35,380
Speaker 2: And that's a misunderstanding of of God's character. This is

640
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,820
Speaker 2: about connection with him, connection with others. This is about

641
00:30:38,860 --> 00:30:41,260
Speaker 2: fulfilling the most important commandment to love God with all

642
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,170
Speaker 2: our heart, our mind, our strength, our soul, our intelligence,

643
00:30:44,210 --> 00:30:48,650
Speaker 2: depending on what version you read of that verse. To

644
00:30:48,710 --> 00:30:51,150
Speaker 2: love others as we love ourselves. All of these things

645
00:30:51,190 --> 00:30:55,860
Speaker 2: happen in worship. It's incredibly regulating. It helps heart rate variability,

646
00:30:55,890 --> 00:30:58,540
Speaker 2: which is good for our physical health and emotional health.

647
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,780
Speaker 1: It helps ground our nervous system.

648
00:31:00,940 --> 00:31:04,330
Speaker 2: It activates the aura stimulates the vagus nerve, the key

649
00:31:04,370 --> 00:31:06,990
Speaker 2: part of the parasympathetic nervous system, which is the part

650
00:31:07,050 --> 00:31:10,100
Speaker 2: in which we feel grounded. And so, so much is

651
00:31:10,130 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 2: happening below the surface when we pray, when we're generous,

652
00:31:14,180 --> 00:31:17,100
Speaker 2: when we serve, when we sing, all of those things

653
00:31:17,140 --> 00:31:19,380
Speaker 2: that we kind of do naturally as Christians. And often

654
00:31:19,420 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 2: people can say, oh, as if God needs you to

655
00:31:21,660 --> 00:31:24,290
Speaker 2: do that. Well, no, that's not the point. God doesn't

656
00:31:24,310 --> 00:31:26,030
Speaker 2: need us to do any of it. He's good all

657
00:31:26,070 --> 00:31:29,030
Speaker 2: by himself. And yet he chose to be in relationship

658
00:31:29,050 --> 00:31:31,270
Speaker 2: with us and to save us and to love us

659
00:31:31,330 --> 00:31:33,530
Speaker 2: and bring us into wholeness and holiness as.

660
00:31:33,510 --> 00:31:36,830
Speaker 1: We read, to make you holy and whole.

661
00:31:36,950 --> 00:31:39,650
Speaker 3: And we can use all of this wisdom and all

662
00:31:39,670 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 3: of this knowledge when we are facing, for example, like

663
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 3: an alcohol craving, right? And so if you're hearing this,

664
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,500
Speaker 3: this is a good opportunity and suggestion to put on

665
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,140
Speaker 3: a worship music and sing it out loud. And this

666
00:31:51,210 --> 00:31:53,170
Speaker 3: is what I think is so cool. I think we've

667
00:31:53,190 --> 00:31:55,090
Speaker 3: talked about this before, but this is the way I

668
00:31:55,190 --> 00:31:58,340
Speaker 3: actually think it's so cool to be have an alcohol-like

669
00:31:58,420 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 3: story or struggle because for me, it like really taught

670
00:32:02,540 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 3: me how to focus on my thoughts. It taught me

671
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,940
Speaker 3: how to regulate my nervous system. It taught me how

672
00:32:07,980 --> 00:32:10,700
Speaker 3: to do these things. But you can also then use

673
00:32:10,740 --> 00:32:14,370
Speaker 3: these lessons for your every single day as you do

674
00:32:14,420 --> 00:32:17,810
Speaker 3: and as you teach all your amazing followers. Can you

675
00:32:17,850 --> 00:32:21,290
Speaker 3: talk a little bit about the default mode network and

676
00:32:21,330 --> 00:32:25,370
Speaker 3: like what getting stuck in there looks like? because then

677
00:32:25,420 --> 00:32:28,110
Speaker 3: we can access these kind of tools that God's given

678
00:32:28,210 --> 00:32:30,730
Speaker 3: us to regulate ourselves and hold on to truth.

679
00:32:31,610 --> 00:32:34,070
Speaker 2: So the default mode network is an incredible part of

680
00:32:34,290 --> 00:32:34,770
Speaker 2: our brain.

681
00:32:34,790 --> 00:32:37,330
Speaker 1: This is why I have a little theory of people who.

682
00:32:37,490 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 2: Are maybe neurodivergent, maybe creative. I can't make sweeping statements

683
00:32:43,580 --> 00:32:45,980
Speaker 2: because I haven't studied this deep enough or I haven't

684
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,300
Speaker 2: researched it myself. But I do think that often the

685
00:32:49,340 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 2: default mode networks can be more active in people who

686
00:32:52,700 --> 00:32:57,980
Speaker 2: are deeply intuitive, see bigger picture, creative types, which is

687
00:32:58,020 --> 00:33:00,660
Speaker 2: why all the way throughout history, you've really seen creative people,

688
00:33:00,860 --> 00:33:02,580
Speaker 2: you know, people who've done all these kind of things.

689
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 1: So default mode network has kind of the.

690
00:33:05,660 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 2: Ability to be beautifully creative, to think about where you'd

691
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,490
Speaker 2: like to be in five years time, to think about

692
00:33:13,550 --> 00:33:16,390
Speaker 2: a wonderful memory, to recall something that really made you

693
00:33:16,530 --> 00:33:19,510
Speaker 2: laugh or something. wonderful to be able to kind of

694
00:33:19,570 --> 00:33:22,050
Speaker 2: daydream and think. And so it's not.

695
00:33:21,930 --> 00:33:24,180
Speaker 1: A terrible part of our brain. It's a beautiful part

696
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: of our brain.

697
00:33:25,260 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 2: But the flip side is it can also be where

698
00:33:27,340 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 2: we ruminate, where we get caught in thought loops, where

699
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 2: we get stuck and things go over again and again,

700
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 2: where we can compare ourselves, catastrophize, all that kind of stuff.

701
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: And it's never as simple as this just happens in

702
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: one brain region.

703
00:33:41,540 --> 00:33:43,590
Speaker 2: And you'd need a conversation with Dr. Lee Warren to

704
00:33:43,630 --> 00:33:45,610
Speaker 2: talk about that because he is an actual brain surgeon

705
00:33:45,630 --> 00:33:48,390
Speaker 2: and understands this stuff at a deeper level than I do.

706
00:33:48,750 --> 00:33:49,730
Speaker 1: But from what I've.

707
00:33:49,590 --> 00:33:52,430
Speaker 2: Studied, I see that it's a great part of the brain,

708
00:33:52,450 --> 00:33:55,430
Speaker 2: but it can also be very active, but active for

709
00:33:55,450 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 2: a brilliant reason, but active and it can be quite

710
00:33:57,960 --> 00:33:59,290
Speaker 2: detrimental and difficult for us.

711
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,180
Speaker 1: There are things that you can do.

712
00:34:01,260 --> 00:34:04,260
Speaker 2: So 2 Corinthians 10, 5 about taking our thoughts captive

713
00:34:04,300 --> 00:34:07,459
Speaker 2: and making them obedient to Jesus is very much And

714
00:34:07,500 --> 00:34:09,700
Speaker 2: from a neuroscientific point of view, we could talk about

715
00:34:09,739 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 2: that's really engaging with the default mode network as well

716
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,270
Speaker 2: as other networks of your brain. Because actually we notice

717
00:34:15,330 --> 00:34:18,190
Speaker 2: a thought that we're thinking and you cannot capture a

718
00:34:18,230 --> 00:34:19,390
Speaker 2: thought that you haven't noticed.

719
00:34:19,810 --> 00:34:19,950
Speaker 3: Right.

720
00:34:19,989 --> 00:34:23,830
Speaker 2: And so you notice what's your default thinking is, what's

721
00:34:23,870 --> 00:34:26,930
Speaker 2: going on in that kind of default mode network. That's

722
00:34:26,969 --> 00:34:29,500
Speaker 2: what happens when you're not really thinking about much at all.

723
00:34:29,900 --> 00:34:32,509
Speaker 2: You know, when you've driven to the store. And you

724
00:34:32,550 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 2: realize you arrive there and you think, how did I

725
00:34:34,820 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 2: even get here? Because you've been in your head rehearsing things,

726
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,859
Speaker 2: having a pretend argument with somebody, thinking about, okay, when

727
00:34:41,900 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 2: could I have my first drink? Or if I eat

728
00:34:43,540 --> 00:34:45,620
Speaker 2: that many calories today, what will I do tomorrow? You know,

729
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 2: all of that kind of thing. You get stuck in

730
00:34:47,420 --> 00:34:51,030
Speaker 2: your own head. And so, yeah, you notice it, name it.

731
00:34:51,620 --> 00:34:54,410
Speaker 1: Like we said earlier, we can reframe it. And that's

732
00:34:54,489 --> 00:34:55,410
Speaker 1: where it happens there.

733
00:34:55,469 --> 00:34:57,890
Speaker 2: And so I like to think about our default thought

734
00:34:57,930 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 2: loops as being like paper chains. I love the idea

735
00:35:01,180 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 2: of the paper chains because if you think about the

736
00:35:03,420 --> 00:35:05,270
Speaker 2: paper chain of the thought loop that you get stuck

737
00:35:05,330 --> 00:35:07,209
Speaker 2: in and you just keep adding extra chains and extra

738
00:35:07,250 --> 00:35:11,739
Speaker 2: chains and it gets really overwhelming. Actually, One brilliant way

739
00:35:11,780 --> 00:35:13,990
Speaker 2: that you can break those paper chains and change that

740
00:35:14,050 --> 00:35:16,690
Speaker 2: thought loop is by bringing in a different thought. And

741
00:35:16,710 --> 00:35:18,570
Speaker 2: this is where we get to the power of meditating

742
00:35:18,610 --> 00:35:22,509
Speaker 2: on scripture, bringing in whatever. I've mentioned Romans 8, 38,

743
00:35:22,510 --> 00:35:25,399
Speaker 2: Psalm 23 later. Just when you get stuck in those

744
00:35:25,420 --> 00:35:28,110
Speaker 2: thought loops, just notice it. If you can notice it,

745
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,720
Speaker 2: you are kind of way ahead of so many people

746
00:35:30,739 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 2: who are living life on autopilot anyway. And so begin

747
00:35:34,180 --> 00:35:37,230
Speaker 2: to notice it and we're back to naming it, regulating

748
00:35:37,250 --> 00:35:40,669
Speaker 2: yourself and reframing it. But being able to notice what's

749
00:35:40,710 --> 00:35:43,090
Speaker 2: going on in that default mode network takes practice.

750
00:35:43,370 --> 00:35:44,750
Speaker 1: And now I'm so.

751
00:35:44,610 --> 00:35:48,910
Speaker 2: Quick after years of practice, I've become quick at being

752
00:35:48,989 --> 00:35:51,580
Speaker 2: able to notice I'm doing that thing again and I

753
00:35:51,620 --> 00:35:53,760
Speaker 2: can redirect my attention elsewhere.

754
00:35:54,180 --> 00:35:57,760
Speaker 3: I recently heard you say, talk about the alpha state

755
00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 3: in the morning and before you go to bed and

756
00:35:59,620 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 3: how your brain is. And I never heard that before.

757
00:36:02,100 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh gosh, that's convicting. I'm okay

758
00:36:06,860 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 3: in the morning, but it's the evening. I'm good about

759
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 3: putting the phone away, but it's the, what is the

760
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,020
Speaker 3: last thing that I'm like watching on the TV, right?

761
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,859
Speaker 3: And so can you talk about just start and end

762
00:36:17,940 --> 00:36:19,900
Speaker 3: our day with Jesus and why it's so important?

763
00:36:20,580 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 1: Oh, totally.

764
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,090
Speaker 2: And I love actually, as I've been reading more of

765
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,569
Speaker 2: the Psalms, it's like a good number of Psalms that

766
00:36:25,590 --> 00:36:28,410
Speaker 2: are about in the morning this, in the evening this.

767
00:36:28,469 --> 00:36:30,950
Speaker 2: It's very much like when I wake, when I sleep,

768
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,020
Speaker 2: And so, yeah, when you're drifting off, that kind of

769
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:38,340
Speaker 2: sleepy feeling of drifting off, your brain does relax. It

770
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 2: goes into something called an alpha brain state, which is

771
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,259
Speaker 2: essentially your brain. It's almost like the door of your

772
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 2: subconscious is open and information can get through quicker. So

773
00:36:46,300 --> 00:36:48,050
Speaker 2: we just need to be careful what we feed it

774
00:36:48,110 --> 00:36:52,020
Speaker 2: in those moments. Our alpha brainwaves, it's God's design. And

775
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,170
Speaker 2: so for us to think and meditate, I guess Philippians

776
00:36:55,170 --> 00:36:57,350
Speaker 2: 4 verse 8 is a beautiful example here to think

777
00:36:57,370 --> 00:37:00,549
Speaker 2: about things that are true, noble, excellent, praiseworthy. Now that

778
00:37:00,870 --> 00:37:04,890
Speaker 2: means don't watch any news, but particularly don't watch BBC news. Anyway,

779
00:37:05,050 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 2: sorry for anybody there who's a big fan of BBC.

780
00:37:07,020 --> 00:37:11,500
Speaker 2: That's my own prejudice. But just be mindful, be mindful

781
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,399
Speaker 2: of what you're allowing to go into your mind. First

782
00:37:13,420 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 2: thing in the morning when you pick up your phone,

783
00:37:15,530 --> 00:37:18,630
Speaker 2: Something that knocks you out of alpha state straight away

784
00:37:18,690 --> 00:37:20,810
Speaker 2: is blue light. And you really want to be able

785
00:37:20,830 --> 00:37:24,250
Speaker 2: to capitalize on that alpha state if you want to

786
00:37:24,290 --> 00:37:25,219
Speaker 2: build healthy thoughts.

787
00:37:25,570 --> 00:37:25,820
Speaker 3: Dr.

788
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 2: Caroline Leaf in her book, Switch on Your Brain, talks

789
00:37:28,100 --> 00:37:30,819
Speaker 2: about neurogenesis, that every morning when you wake up, you

790
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,700
Speaker 2: have a whole new batch of baby brain cells to

791
00:37:33,739 --> 00:37:36,580
Speaker 2: be able to think healthy thoughts with and tear down

792
00:37:36,620 --> 00:37:41,130
Speaker 2: toxic thought every morning. And she likens it to Lamentations 3,

793
00:37:41,130 --> 00:37:42,570
Speaker 2: his mercies are new every morning.

794
00:37:42,870 --> 00:37:44,610
Speaker 1: New mercies, new mornings, new mindsets.

795
00:37:45,150 --> 00:37:48,370
Speaker 2: And so being able to use that time, that time

796
00:37:48,410 --> 00:37:51,550
Speaker 2: where your brain is very relaxed to meditate on a scripture,

797
00:37:51,610 --> 00:37:54,430
Speaker 2: to speak a truth over yourself, very, very powerful.

798
00:37:54,810 --> 00:37:57,740
Speaker 3: Yeah, so helpful. I want to read something that you

799
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 3: wrote and posted recently because I think it will resonate

800
00:38:00,900 --> 00:38:04,260
Speaker 3: so much with my gals. You said, on my worst days,

801
00:38:04,340 --> 00:38:06,100
Speaker 3: I have wondered if God has just fed up with

802
00:38:06,140 --> 00:38:09,180
Speaker 3: me and my behavior and he has indeed left me

803
00:38:09,260 --> 00:38:12,720
Speaker 3: to my own devices to fight and flight and freeze

804
00:38:12,820 --> 00:38:16,630
Speaker 3: and fawn by myself. beyond any sense of healing and redemption.

805
00:38:17,110 --> 00:38:21,009
Speaker 3: And yet the Psalms, specifically Psalm 139, grounds and roots

806
00:38:21,070 --> 00:38:23,489
Speaker 3: me in truth. There is nowhere I can go from

807
00:38:23,550 --> 00:38:26,569
Speaker 3: his spirit or flee from his presence. When I go

808
00:38:26,750 --> 00:38:29,390
Speaker 3: up into anxiety, he is there. When I make my

809
00:38:29,430 --> 00:38:32,860
Speaker 3: bed in the depths of disconnection, he is there. Thank you, Jesus,

810
00:38:32,900 --> 00:38:35,620
Speaker 3: that we can come to you whatever state we are in.

811
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,939
Speaker 3: And I thought that was so beautiful, babe, and so encouraging.

812
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,220
Speaker 1: Thank you. I love when you call me an expert.

813
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:44,900
Speaker 2: I certainly don't think I'm an expert professionally, but I

814
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:46,950
Speaker 2: feel like I am an expert personally because this is

815
00:38:46,969 --> 00:38:50,470
Speaker 2: just very much my life. It's very much my everyday

816
00:38:50,550 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 2: ordinary submitting myself to Jesus, asking for his help, but

817
00:38:56,219 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 2: remembering God.

818
00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 1: That he's not against me, that he's for me.

819
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:01,940
Speaker 2: There have been times I've said to God, do you

820
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 2: hate me?

821
00:39:02,420 --> 00:39:04,060
Speaker 1: You could hate me. Yeah.

822
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:06,980
Speaker 2: And poetry book I wrote years ago that says one

823
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 2: of my most real prayers or honest prayers is, God, do.

824
00:39:10,140 --> 00:39:11,180
Speaker 1: You really love me?

825
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,230
Speaker 2: And you know, when you just know how unlovable you are,

826
00:39:14,330 --> 00:39:16,469
Speaker 2: when you see your worst things, where you see the

827
00:39:16,510 --> 00:39:18,969
Speaker 2: times that people probably think that you're going to bed

828
00:39:19,010 --> 00:39:21,009
Speaker 2: and you've done your skincare routine and you're reading your

829
00:39:21,050 --> 00:39:23,529
Speaker 2: Bible and you're doing everything really well, but actually you've

830
00:39:23,550 --> 00:39:25,750
Speaker 2: fallen into bed and you've eaten too many biscuits and

831
00:39:25,770 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 2: you've shouted at your family and You know, all that

832
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:31,739
Speaker 2: kind of very real life stuff. Yeah, you've been caught

833
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,399
Speaker 2: in dysregulation, fight, flight, freeze, fawn. And then we get

834
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,580
Speaker 2: into this in Psalm 139. There's nowhere we can go

835
00:39:37,620 --> 00:39:40,169
Speaker 2: from his presence. And I love, I love this.

836
00:39:40,610 --> 00:39:42,460
Speaker 1: He says he knows a thought before we think it.

837
00:39:42,810 --> 00:39:44,650
Speaker 2: That makes me nervous. God knows what's going on in

838
00:39:44,670 --> 00:39:47,150
Speaker 2: my head. a word before it's on our tongue. He

839
00:39:47,170 --> 00:39:49,489
Speaker 2: knows when we sit, when we rise. And yet we

840
00:39:49,570 --> 00:39:52,629
Speaker 2: read his posture in that. It says, if we go

841
00:39:52,670 --> 00:39:55,290
Speaker 2: into the next verse, he hems us in behind him

842
00:39:55,310 --> 00:39:57,710
Speaker 2: before he lays his hand upon us.

843
00:39:58,710 --> 00:40:01,529
Speaker 1: His posture isn't to go, oh my gosh, you are

844
00:40:01,550 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: too far gone.

845
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 2: Oh, when you stop being so dysregulated, then when you

846
00:40:05,500 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 2: calm down, then you can come to me.

847
00:40:07,860 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: He's like, I move towards you. I hem you in.

848
00:40:09,980 --> 00:40:12,020
Speaker 1: I keep you safe. I lay my hand upon you.

849
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,130
Speaker 2: And that realizing the truth of that in and of

850
00:40:15,170 --> 00:40:18,259
Speaker 2: itself is regulating. Because what do you need to be regulated?

851
00:40:18,300 --> 00:40:22,180
Speaker 2: You need a safe, calm, reassuring, loving presence.

852
00:40:22,660 --> 00:40:23,540
Speaker 1: That's Christ.

853
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,700
Speaker 3: Amen. Thank you, my friend. Can you tell the gals

854
00:40:27,780 --> 00:40:30,290
Speaker 3: where to find you, where you're hanging out, where you're writing,

855
00:40:30,370 --> 00:40:31,050
Speaker 3: all of the things?

856
00:40:31,989 --> 00:40:34,950
Speaker 1: I am on Instagram as a faith-filled therapist. I am

857
00:40:35,030 --> 00:40:36,890
Speaker 1: on Substack, but I'm My.

858
00:40:36,820 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 2: Productivity flows with my hormone cycle, I think. Sometimes I'm

859
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,070
Speaker 2: really drinking, writing, and other times I'm like, oh, I

860
00:40:43,090 --> 00:40:43,670
Speaker 2: can't put.

861
00:40:43,530 --> 00:40:45,950
Speaker 1: Nothing to say. Just bear with us on that.

862
00:40:46,450 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 2: And then I have the Face Field Therapy podcast, which

863
00:40:49,580 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 2: is wherever you listen to your podcasts.

864
00:40:51,489 --> 00:40:54,209
Speaker 3: And I'm assuming the book is out, what, 2027 or early?

865
00:40:54,830 --> 00:40:55,650
Speaker 1: August 2027.

866
00:40:55,650 --> 00:40:59,910
Speaker 2: So it's going in for first round of edits in

867
00:40:59,930 --> 00:41:00,610
Speaker 2: the next week.

868
00:41:00,790 --> 00:41:03,390
Speaker 1: We've just got a cover and it is gorgeous.

869
00:41:03,450 --> 00:41:04,509
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I can't wait.

870
00:41:04,650 --> 00:41:07,009
Speaker 1: Let's try it still. It's all very lovely. And it

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Speaker 1: really is. I mean, men can read it and get

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00:41:09,510 --> 00:41:12,009
Speaker 1: benefit from it, no doubt. But it really is for,

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Speaker 1: it's for women. It's for God's girls.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I can't wait. Thank you, my friend. Thank you so,

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00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:19,510
Speaker 3: so much. I appreciate you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. Love you.

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Speaker 3: Bye. Thank you for spending this time with me on

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00:41:23,780 --> 00:41:27,399
Speaker 3: Love Live Sober. If today's conversation stirred something in your heart,

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00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,339
Speaker 3: don't rush past it. Take it to prayer. If you're

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00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 3: feeling ready for deeper connection and support, I'd love to

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00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 3: invite you into the Love Live Sober community, a grace-filled,

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00:41:37,260 --> 00:41:41,879
Speaker 3: shame-free space where real connection grows and lasting change takes root.

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00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,060
Speaker 3: You can find the link to join us in the

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00:41:44,100 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 3: show notes. Love Live Sober is part of the Life

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00:41:47,780 --> 00:41:51,900
Speaker 3: Audio Podcast Network. where faith-centered podcasts help you grow deeper

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00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,940
Speaker 3: in your walk with Christ. You can find more faith-centered

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00:41:54,980 --> 00:41:59,830
Speaker 3: podcasts at lifeaudio.com. Until next time, be gentle with yourself,

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00:42:00,110 --> 00:42:03,910
Speaker 3: stay curious, and trust God's promises. He has freedom waiting

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Speaker 3: for you.