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Speaker 1: Life audio in fourteen combat deployments to Iraq in Afghanistan.

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Speaker 1: If you add all of the firefights up, they don't

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Speaker 1: equate to the kind of killing that we saw for

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Speaker 1: eighteen hours in Somalia. When you get in this firefight,

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Speaker 1: it's you and your individual weapons system and your ranger buddy,

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Speaker 1: and that's it. For all of those eighteen hours, I

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Speaker 1: didn't think I was going to die. I knew I

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Speaker 1: was going to die. It was like tactically, I know

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Speaker 1: how to fight, and there is no outcome for this

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Speaker 1: fight except I die. Part of my testimony is to

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Speaker 1: say when I was one hundred percent sure I was

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Speaker 1: going to die, I had no fear about it whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: And it was because I know where I'm going to

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Speaker 1: spend eternity that was settled for me at thirteen years old.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to the Marcher Dye Show today. Glad

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Speaker 2: to have you joining. This is the show where we

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Speaker 2: do our best, and all I can promise is that

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Speaker 2: we'll do our best every single episode to give you

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Speaker 2: both principles and perspectives to more when it would be

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Speaker 2: easier to stay where you are and die. My name

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Speaker 2: is Jeremy Solniker. I am your host, and I am

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Speaker 2: solo today. No Sean, but we're gonna get Sewan back

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Speaker 2: on before too long. But super excited about our guest today.

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Speaker 2: This is someone that I have looked forward to talking

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Speaker 2: to you for a very long time, and I'm glad

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Speaker 2: we finally connected. Our guest is Jeff Struker. If you're

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Speaker 2: not familiar with Jeff, he is a lot of things

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Speaker 2: and has been a lot of things over a lot

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Speaker 2: of years. United States Army ranger served in several different conflicts,

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Speaker 2: probably most well known for his time in Mogadishu, Somalia,

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Speaker 2: transitioned from special operations as a ranger to a chaplain,

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Speaker 2: which we're going to talk about that transition, and certainly

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Speaker 2: interested in what that looked like. Now serving as a

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Speaker 2: senior pastor. He's also an author, speaker, again, a lot

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Speaker 2: of other things. But man, very good to be able

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Speaker 2: to connect with you finally, and hopefully Lord willing four

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Speaker 2: or five, I guess longer than that, six or seven months,

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Speaker 2: we'll be together in Texas as well. But Jeff, thanks

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Speaker 2: for joining, really really appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: It's great to be with you, and I'm looking forward

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Speaker 1: to me being with you in person in Texas.

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Speaker 2: Yes, sir, we got our big, big gala every year,

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Speaker 2: and I had a list of speakers, and you're at

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Speaker 2: the top of the list. You're traveling, and you're traveling,

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Speaker 2: you're doing some other things, and so I'm like, man,

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Speaker 2: it's not gonna work out. We'll figure something else out.

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Speaker 2: And man, it worked worked out. So excited about it.

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Speaker 1: We made it work out. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Man, It's hard to know exactly where to start, but

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Speaker 2: I'll start with this your faith story. I'd love to

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Speaker 2: begin there and then kind of transition through some of

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Speaker 2: the other things that you've done, and then specifically talk

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Speaker 2: about how to find peace in the midst of battle,

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Speaker 2: how to march when it would be easier to stay

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Speaker 2: where you are and die. That's what we talk about

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Speaker 2: a lot here. But let's just start with your faith journey.

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Speaker 2: How did you become a Christian? And you know wherever

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Speaker 2: you want to take it from there, I know obviously

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Speaker 2: that's that's who you are.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And by the way, thanks for starting out

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Speaker 1: with what's most important. If you think about it, everything

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Speaker 1: else in life is secondary to this one. If you

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Speaker 1: really believe that after your heart stops beating, it's not

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Speaker 1: all the way over that there's something much more and

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Speaker 1: much better waiting for you. So I'll give you the

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Speaker 1: short version, and I'd be happy to answer some more

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Speaker 1: questions or fill the audience in on any details that

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Speaker 1: you want. But bottom line is Jesus reached down at

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Speaker 1: thirteen years old and found a kid that was farthest

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Speaker 1: from him on planet Earth and decided to radically change

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Speaker 1: my life. And I use this language really intentionally furthest

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Speaker 1: from him because when I grew up, I grew up

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Speaker 1: in a home that was totally devoid of faith. I

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Speaker 1: tell people, it's not necessarily that my family were atheists.

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Speaker 1: It's not that they hated God. They just basically lived

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Speaker 1: like he didn't matter. So nobody went to church, nobody prayed,

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Speaker 1: nobody talked about God. When I was growing up, and

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Speaker 1: I had really deep questions, deep questions that went all

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Speaker 1: the way back to early childhood, like elementary school. I

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Speaker 1: was wrestling with life and death and heaven and hell,

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Speaker 1: but no one in my life was even able to answer.

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Speaker 1: I had questions that I woke them up in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the night asking, but nobody could answer them.

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Speaker 1: And that's why I refer to myself as as far

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Speaker 1: away from Jesus as a man could get, because not

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Speaker 1: only did I not know him, but nobody around me

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Speaker 1: knew him. And quite literally, one day we moved to

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Speaker 1: an apartment compact complex and we were living on the

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Speaker 1: first floor, and directly across the hall from us was

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Speaker 1: a young married couple. I didn't know it, didn't even

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Speaker 1: know what this meant, but they were Christians, and after

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Speaker 1: a few weeks they were inviting me over, wanted to

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Speaker 1: play games, one of to do stuff together. And then

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Speaker 1: a month or two end of this relationship, they came

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Speaker 1: across the hall and sat down and talked to me

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Speaker 1: about Jesus and explained to me the gospel. And I'll

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Speaker 1: just say to your audience, that night it hit me

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Speaker 1: like a lightning bolt, And that night Jesus stepped in

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Speaker 1: and radically did something in my life. And it has

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Speaker 1: never been the same since. And there has not been

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Speaker 1: a day of my life that I didn't know. What

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Speaker 1: happened to me at thirteen years old was real and powerful.

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Speaker 1: So I say that because I had a very deep,

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Speaker 1: very profound faith long before I joined the army and

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Speaker 1: went off and did a bunch of stuff that you

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Speaker 1: just described. It a moment.

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Speaker 2: Ago, or was that couple responsible for you know, we

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Speaker 2: use the word discipling, but mentoring you or equipping you

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Speaker 2: to walk that faith out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I wish they were. Honestly, I moved many many

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Speaker 1: times before finishing high school. I averaged moving two or

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Speaker 1: three times a school year. And I moved just matter

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Speaker 1: of a few weeks after this conversion or after Jesus

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Speaker 1: saved me. And I don't even remember the couple's names.

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Speaker 1: Literally don't know who they are. I think I remember

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Speaker 1: his first name, don't even remember her first name or

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Speaker 1: last name. But I moved around so many more times

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Speaker 1: that after this. Every time I moved, I got up

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Speaker 1: wherever I was living and walked to the closest church.

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Speaker 1: And I was the kid who sat in the back

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Speaker 1: of the church and didn't have the clothes to dress

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Speaker 1: the way that I was supposed to, didn't have money

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Speaker 1: for the offering plate, so people looked down their noses

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Speaker 1: when it came by. But I just got up and

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Speaker 1: walked to whatever the closest church was, and kept doing

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Speaker 1: that until I was in the army, and really until

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Speaker 1: I was a sergeant in the army and had a

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Speaker 1: vehicle and had some freedom. It wasn't until then that

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Speaker 1: I actually got discipled. I'm putting air quotes around disciples. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because it's the first time in my life I got

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Speaker 1: connected to a church that took this seriously, and the

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Speaker 1: pastor took me under his wing and started showing me

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Speaker 1: what walking with Jesus looks like. And I wish to

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Speaker 1: God that would have happened for me at thirteen, but

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Speaker 1: the truth is it didn't happen until I was about

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Speaker 1: twenty one, twenty two, and I feel like, man, there's

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Speaker 1: some years of my life that I could have been

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Speaker 1: a lot more effective if somebody would have helped me

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Speaker 1: figure out what it looks like to be a disciple,

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Speaker 1: a disciple making disciple.

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Speaker 2: Lit it that that way I've been. So my story

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Speaker 2: is different. I was raised in a pastor's home, and

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Speaker 2: I remember telling my dad when I was fourteen that

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Speaker 2: I wanted to and listen to the Marine Corps. And

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Speaker 2: I always joked by man, I always joked that my

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Speaker 2: dad said, there's no way God wants you to listen

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Speaker 2: to the Marine Corps. But he said, hey, if that's

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Speaker 2: what you think God wants you to do, we'll hope

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Speaker 2: you get there. But we want you to go to

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Speaker 2: college first, and so I ended up going through commissioning

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Speaker 2: program and that's my story. But part of it for

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Speaker 2: me was I grew up in a very strong house

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Speaker 2: of faith, a very strong Christian family. My dad started

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Speaker 2: at church. I watched all that happen, and so I

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Speaker 2: never felt like I was running from God, but I

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Speaker 2: definitely knew that was not what I wanted to do.

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to be involved in ministry, and I

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Speaker 2: wanted to go a very different direction than my parents had.

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Speaker 2: And again not because of Christianity or them or anything else.

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Speaker 2: I just at the time didn't feel like that was

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Speaker 2: the call or the bent of my life. God brought

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Speaker 2: me back into or brought me into ministry, and so

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Speaker 2: I ended up pastoring and doing all of those things too.

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Speaker 2: But at that time, so I was on a different

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Speaker 2: end of it. But because of where I came from

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Speaker 2: and then where I ended up in the Marine Corps,

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Speaker 2: people have asked me, you know, probably hundreds of times

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Speaker 2: over the years, was there a conflict between your faith

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Speaker 2: and going into the military. Did you ever feel that

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Speaker 2: there was? You know, you're living these two world two

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Speaker 2: worlds in fact, when we twenty three years ago, we

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Speaker 2: deployed to Kuwait and then went into Iraq as part

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Speaker 2: of the invasion force into Iraq. And I remember an

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Speaker 2: AP reporter before we made that movement asked me, all right,

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Speaker 2: you're a Christian. People know you're a Christian, and you

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Speaker 2: don't know what you're gonna end up doing over there?

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Speaker 2: You are you struggling with that? Is that a problem

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Speaker 2: for you? And I've walked through that a lot, you know,

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Speaker 2: many times with people. For you having faith and being

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Speaker 2: very committed and devoted to what you understood of that

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Speaker 2: walk and then making the decision to go into the army.

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Speaker 2: Was there a was there any friction in your heart

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Speaker 2: between what you believed and what you were getting ready

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Speaker 2: to do? What was that journey like and how did

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Speaker 2: how did you sync up those pieces?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I got lots more to say about this. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna give you a one word answer, and then I

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Speaker 1: am fascinated by you, Jeremy. So I got a question

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Speaker 1: for you before I give you a little bit. But no,

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Speaker 1: I never struggled with this, and I can unpack for

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Speaker 1: you in just a minute why that is or how

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Speaker 1: that is? But a fascinat by you, because I didn't

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Speaker 1: really get disciples. So for me, you know, the military

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Speaker 1: was kind of a moral you know, and it didn't

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Speaker 1: pose a biblical challenge for me. And even while I

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Speaker 1: was in the army, you know, I was already in

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Speaker 1: it before I started to really understand the scriptures really

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Speaker 1: start to walk out my faith. I loved Jesus and

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Speaker 1: I was following him the best I could, but just

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Speaker 1: nobody was guiding me along the path. So in your case,

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Speaker 1: you're about the extreme opposite of me. Sure, I would

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Speaker 1: love to know for you how you made that first

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Speaker 1: decision to join the Core and serve the country, because

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Speaker 1: in your case, it was probably the opposite side of

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Speaker 1: my spectrum.

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Speaker 2: Well, so, you know, again, I didn't feel like I

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Speaker 2: was running from God or anything like that. I really

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Speaker 2: believed at fourteen years old that's what God wanted me

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Speaker 2: to do. We had had some influences in my life

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Speaker 2: and some of those things and I couldn't even explain

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Speaker 2: why necessarily, but I believe that's what God wanted. And

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Speaker 2: I came from a home where both of my parents

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Speaker 2: really elevated service. They loved our country, they loved the

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Speaker 2: idea of serving our country, and the ideals and all

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Speaker 2: those things, and so there was never a conflict in

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Speaker 2: our home about that kind of service. When I became

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Speaker 2: or when I was old enough to start having the

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Speaker 2: conversation for real, like I'm seventeen, eighteen years old. We

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Speaker 2: had a family friend who was a Marine officer and

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Speaker 2: a Christian, and one day I remember the conversation. I

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Speaker 2: asked him that exact same conversation. People are telling me

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Speaker 2: Christian shit and go in the Marine corps's a very

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Speaker 2: dark place. What do you think about that? And he

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Speaker 2: made this statement to me, or something similar to this statement.

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Speaker 2: This is how I remember it. He said, it is

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Speaker 2: a dark place, but if you take all of the

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Speaker 2: light out, then you have nothing left. And as a

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Speaker 2: Christian he was talking about himself, I have an opportunity

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Speaker 2: to be a testimony. And so for me that was

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Speaker 2: kind of confirmation that this is what I should do next.

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Speaker 2: I thought I'd be there forever. God used that period

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Speaker 2: of time in my life to lead me somewhere else.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, man, and I think for me and for

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Speaker 2: a lot of Christian people. I get asked this by

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Speaker 2: Christian parents a lot. If your son's eighteen years old,

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Speaker 2: your daughter's eighteen years old and they're thinking about going

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Speaker 2: into the militaries. Now is not the time to start

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Speaker 2: preparing them for that as a Christian right. And my

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Speaker 2: parents were preparing me when I was six, seven, eight, ten, thirteen,

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Speaker 2: you know, fifteen to go out into the world and

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Speaker 2: do something. Yeah, so I felt, you know, we used

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Speaker 2: were discipled. I felt discipled. I felt prepared to deal

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Speaker 2: with whatever would come. So it's kind of the short

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Speaker 2: short answer.

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Speaker 1: I guess, well, man, listen, thank you for serving the country.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for what you did for us in the core

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Speaker 1: and overseas. And I tend to agree with every word

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Speaker 1: that you just said. But for me, I kind of

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Speaker 1: stumbled my way into it. Nobody was guiding me into it.

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Speaker 1: I didn't see any theological problems or biblical challenges with

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Speaker 1: serving in the military. Although, oh, I think I've got

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Speaker 1: you beat by a long shot, man, because I lost count,

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Speaker 1: and I think I lost count at about number three thousand,

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Speaker 1: where people in uniform and out of uniform have asked me, Jeff,

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Speaker 1: I don't get how you can be a Christian with

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Speaker 1: faith this strong and go to war and kill people.

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Speaker 1: Because I was a combat arms guy, you know, and

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Speaker 1: listened dude in the range of regiment kicking indoors and

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Speaker 1: an operator on target, and they were like, I don't

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Speaker 1: understand how you can do both of those things. And

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Speaker 1: I'm like, ah, I've never struggled with both of those

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Speaker 1: things for me personally, So believe it or not, I

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Speaker 1: have been asked this question for thirty five years, thousands

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Speaker 1: of times. I have answered this question more times than

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Speaker 1: any other question that I've ever been asked. And my

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Speaker 1: answer is, to some degree, what that Marine Corps officer

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Speaker 1: told you. Listen, Yeah, the military is dark, but then again,

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Speaker 1: so is medicine, so is sports, so is business. Find

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Speaker 1: me a industry on the planet that's not dark, and

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Speaker 1: even the even ministry, unfortunately, can be really dark at times.

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Speaker 1: And what happens if all of the light runs? And

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Speaker 1: in fact, what I see Jesus saying is light pushes

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Speaker 1: back darkness, Light repels darkness. He's calling us to go

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Speaker 1: into dark places. So for me, this might be the

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Speaker 1: extremest in me, but bring on the darkness, and the

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Speaker 1: darker that it is, the more my light has a

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Speaker 1: chance to shine. So why should I avoid that? I

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Speaker 1: think for a lot of people, their struggle is they're

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Speaker 1: asking out loud, Jeff, help me work through taking a

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Speaker 1: human life and being a believer. And I'm like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's a really really important question. Sounds like you want

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Speaker 1: a fifteen second sound bite answer to that question. There

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Speaker 1: isn't one. There is. So I'll unpack that question for you,

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to take you on a journey and

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Speaker 1: it's going to take us a while to get but

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Speaker 1: I can give you an answer to that question.

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Speaker 2: That's interesting. It's funny you say you get asked that

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Speaker 2: so much. I did a video with a friend, it's

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Speaker 2: been several months ago now for our YouTube channel for

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Speaker 2: this podcast, and it was can a Christian go into

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Speaker 2: the military? And so we just try to unpack some

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Speaker 2: of that. I gotta I got a comment today today.

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Speaker 1: All right that it was a little bit wrong, right, yeah.

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Speaker 2: If if you go into the military, you are not

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Speaker 2: a Christian? It was that was the comment, and then

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Speaker 2: in parentheses there were several verses and whatever. I'm like, man,

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Speaker 2: it's crazy how people kind of fall with very little thought.

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Speaker 2: And I don't think they're actually processing processing, But it's funny.

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Speaker 1: If you don't mind, can I can I deal with

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Speaker 1: this question or this comment? You just got today. Please

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Speaker 1: whoever this moron is, and I don't know them because

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Speaker 1: I didn't see your YouTube channel to see this comment,

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Speaker 1: I would say, do you read your Bible? Because if

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Speaker 1: you read your Bible, you would know that Abraham leads

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Speaker 1: about three hundred men into battle at night against five kings.

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Speaker 1: You would know that Moses marches the armies of God

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Speaker 1: off to war to not just defeat, but annihilate entire nations.

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Speaker 1: And you would also know that David is probably the

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Speaker 1: single greatest warrior that's ever walked on planet Earth. Nobody

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Speaker 1: took more human lives as far as I can tell

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Speaker 1: in the history books than David. And I will remind

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Speaker 1: you that the Bible calls Abraham a friend of God.

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Speaker 1: The Bible calls Moses a man who speaks with God

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Speaker 1: face to face. The Bible calls David a man after

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Speaker 1: God's own heart. So are you telling me that Abraham, Moses,

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Speaker 1: and David are not Christians? Because it sounds like that's

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Speaker 1: what you're saying to me. Don't even get me started

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Speaker 1: about the New Testament examples of Cornelius and many more.

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Speaker 1: But I won't even go there.

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Speaker 2: So I'm going to just post this clip right to

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Speaker 2: the comment I was going to.

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Speaker 1: Say, I could go for hours on this one, because

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Speaker 1: I get that flippant language too, and I'm like, oh, really,

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Speaker 1: it's on now. If you want to go there, let's

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Speaker 1: go there.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about it. And one of the things that

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Speaker 2: I push back, you know, strongly on people like that, is, Hey,

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Speaker 2: you are not someone who's been in combat, never been

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Speaker 2: shot at, or like that. Yeah, you haven't experienced that.

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Speaker 2: And and I know that because if it weren't for

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Speaker 2: my faith. During the invasion of Iraq, we were in

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Speaker 2: the Battle of Baghdad on April tenth, the anniversary that's

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Speaker 2: coming up. That was our battalion, And if I hadn't

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Speaker 2: been a Christian at that time, there's no way I

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Speaker 2: would have been able to even contextualize what happened and

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Speaker 2: move on with my life. And I think so much

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Speaker 2: of so many of the struggles that we addressed through

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Speaker 2: our organization that you know, people like you and I

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Speaker 2: talk about that. I'm sure you spend a lot of

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Speaker 2: time as a chaplain dealing with the trauma issues and

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Speaker 2: trying to understand things like moral injury and the rest

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Speaker 2: of it. You can't effectively address those if you don't

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Speaker 2: have an understanding of, you know, a transcendent God and

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Speaker 2: a personal relationship with Jesus. And so to say that

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Speaker 2: you can't be a Christian to do that, I would

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Speaker 2: argue the other end of that, I don't know how

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Speaker 2: you can do it if you're not a Christian.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah. And by the way, when

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Speaker 1: you were in Baghdad slugging it out, I was already

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Speaker 1: in Afghanistan and was supposed to be home in May.

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Speaker 1: But because you guys rolled into Afghanistan or Iraq when

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Speaker 1: you did this, deployment for that ended in May ended

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Speaker 1: up ending in October.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, because it was No, it wasn't your fault.

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Speaker 1: It was just because every unit that was supposed to

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Speaker 1: replace us got diverted over to Iraq. And now it's

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Speaker 1: another week. Now, it's another month. Now, it's another six months.

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Speaker 1: We'll see you when we see.

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Speaker 2: You, right, I've got friends right now that are encountering

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Speaker 2: that exact situation. They've been deployed and they're waiting to

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Speaker 2: come home. We'll see. I can't talk to you on

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Speaker 2: a podcast without at least briefly talking about Somalia and Mogadishu.

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Speaker 2: And the question I'll ask is as a Christian, as

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Speaker 2: a believer, because I want to get to the point

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Speaker 2: where you transition into the chaplaincy. But you go through,

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Speaker 2: you know, arguably one of the most well known, at

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Speaker 2: least modern battles in history. You're very prominent in that

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Speaker 2: and and people know the story there. But how did

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Speaker 2: your faith guide you through that? And then on the

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Speaker 2: other side of that, and were there conversations with other people?

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Speaker 2: Was that something that you held on to personally? You

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Speaker 2: know what? What did your your I keep saying faith,

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Speaker 2: but your your relationship with Christ What did that do

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Speaker 2: for you in and around those moments?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if I'm going to be honest with this answer,

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Speaker 1: I don't think I can answer that question adequately. And

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Speaker 1: I'm being fair intentional with my language. Now. The better

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Speaker 1: question would be how didn't it impact me? Because I

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Speaker 1: don't think I can list two or three three things

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Speaker 1: about that fight that weren't radically impacted by.

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Speaker 2: My relationship with Crincheston.

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Speaker 1: Now, just to paint the tactical scenario for your listeners,

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Speaker 1: and I'll be very brief with this. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to bore them with black Hawk down you know, fun facts.

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Speaker 1: But I had already been to combat two times before

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Speaker 1: deploying to Somalia, had already taken part in the invasion

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Speaker 1: of Panama in eighty nine, already been to desert storm

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Speaker 1: both of them with the range of Regiment in ninety one.

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Speaker 1: And by the time I got to Somalia, I'd already

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Speaker 1: been in firefights, I'd already moved body bags, I'd already

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Speaker 1: been around the killing. But not like Somalia. In fourteen

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Speaker 1: combat deployments to Iraq in Afghanistan, if you add all

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Speaker 1: of the firefights up, they don't equate to the kind

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Speaker 1: of killing that we saw for eighteen hours in Somalia.

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Speaker 1: And part of that was just the extra ordinary circumstances.

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Speaker 1: And by extraordinary I don't mean great, I just mean

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Speaker 1: unusual circumstances, so very extremely restricted rules of engagement, which

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Speaker 1: means no close air support, no naval gunfire, no artillery,

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Speaker 1: no armor, no friendly forces, you know, besides the un

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Speaker 1: people that are actually on the ground there, and there's

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Speaker 1: no marines that are waiting off the coast for us.

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Speaker 1: When you get in this firefight, it's you and your

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Speaker 1: individual weapons system and your ranger buddy and that's it.

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Speaker 1: And the firefight ended up being US outnumbered. And I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be careful with this ratio by at least

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Speaker 1: one hundred to one, which means, when you're in those

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Speaker 1: kinds of circumstances, the math is going to turn out

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Speaker 1: the same way every time. There's no way without using

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Speaker 1: all of our assets over our head that we didn't have,

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Speaker 1: without using all of the US military behind you, we

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Speaker 1: didn't have any of that, didn't even have gunships over

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Speaker 1: our head. Without any of that, you're going to get

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Speaker 1: the same results, which was basically half of our force

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Speaker 1: killed or wounded, and we wounded or killed more than

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Speaker 1: a thousand Samalis, about two hundred of us in the

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Speaker 1: city streets. I went in on the initial invasion. I

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Speaker 1: stayed out there and drove people back, drove the dead

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Speaker 1: and the wounded back multiple times. When helicopters started getting

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Speaker 1: shot down, the mission fundamentally became get to the crash sites,

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Speaker 1: recover the crew, bring them back, and eventually I stay

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Speaker 1: out there all night long and remain there until nine

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Speaker 1: o'clock the next morning. And Jeremy, you'll get this. A

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Speaker 1: lot of your listeners will get this, but the average

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Speaker 1: audience member won't. For all of those eighteen hours, I

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Speaker 1: didn't think I was going to die. I knew I

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Speaker 1: was going to die just because of the kind of

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Speaker 1: killing that was happening around me and the sheer numbers

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Speaker 1: of enemy. It was tactically. I know how to fight,

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Speaker 1: and there is no outcome for this fight except I die.

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Speaker 1: There's no possible scenario where I don't die. Tonight and

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Speaker 1: throughout the firefight, and I mean every second of it,

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00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 1: I had supernatural peace. Part of my testimony is to

433
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: say when I was one hundred percent sure I was

434
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 1: going to die, I had no fear about it whatsoever.

435
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 1: And it was because I know where I'm going to

436
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:34,399
Speaker 1: spend eternity that was settled for me at thirteen years old. So,

437
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 1: like you, I believe in a sovereign God. He's going

438
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,160
Speaker 1: to decide what happens next. I'm going to go out there,

439
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 1: I'm going to pull the trigger. I'm going to do

440
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,919
Speaker 1: my job to the best of my ability, and some

441
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: people are going to live, some people are going to die.

442
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 1: I'm probably going to be one of them. But I

443
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 1: have nothing to worry about. It's in God's hands. And

444
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 1: the second question that you asked flows naturally from the

445
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 1: first listen. My faith was so powerful that when I

446
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: came back the next morning, and I mean, I'm the

447
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: last guy to make it back into the base on

448
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 1: the humbies that are shot flat underneath me. This is impressive.

449
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,679
Speaker 1: Like three of the four tires are shot flat, and

450
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:18,439
Speaker 1: they all had run flat, which means you have to

451
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: put a lot of bullets through those tires to get

452
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 1: them to go flat.

453
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

454
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: When I got back, rangers were waiting for me, and

455
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 1: they started asking me, like literally as soon as I

456
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 1: got back, started asking me questions about Jesus. Wow, questions like, Jeff,

457
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 1: I watched you in the city streets and we have

458
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,199
Speaker 1: the same training and we have the same experiences, but

459
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 1: you obviously have something that I don't have. Or Sergeant,

460
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,439
Speaker 1: I heard your voice over the radio on the command net.

461
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,439
Speaker 1: Everybody all the way up and down the chain of

462
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 1: command is totally freaking out and your voice is calm,

463
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,719
Speaker 1: and I don't even understand how that's possible, but it

464
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,679
Speaker 1: must have something to do with your faith. So I

465
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: need you to tell me right now about your faith.

466
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 1: And that was so powerful man for me, the most powerful,

467
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 1: one of the most powerful moments of my life was

468
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: not the middle of the fight, but it was after

469
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: the fight was over with, because these dudes were asking

470
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: me questions that they had never asked anybody in their life.

471
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 1: And it was like, right now, I need you to

472
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 1: tell me about Jesus, Sergeanta, And that was hands down

473
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,360
Speaker 1: my call the ministry, like.

474
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,360
Speaker 2: Let me ask you a question real quick. Sure, okay,

475
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 2: you don't get to that moment without the fight, for sure,

476
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 2: but you don't get to that moment where people are

477
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 2: waiting for you and saying your faith obviously impacted this

478
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 2: tell us about it without a lot of groundwork before

479
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 2: the fight.

480
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: Sure. Well, by the way, thank you for pointing that out,

481
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: because I tried regularly to share my faith. I mean,

482
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 1: that's something that all Christians are supposed to be doing, right,

483
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 1: And like you and I said, man, the military can

484
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 1: be a really dark environment. So I'm just doing my

485
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 1: best to try to let my light shine so that

486
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 1: people will see my good deeds and give God credit

487
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,119
Speaker 1: for it. Right, And they blew me off again and again,

488
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: like Jeff, Jesus, I don't need them. I'm tough, I'm strong,

489
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 1: I'm smart, I'm fast. And then when dudes are dying

490
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: to their left and on their right. All of a sudden,

491
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,400
Speaker 1: it's a wake up call. And that's when the groundwork,

492
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 1: as you called it, starts to really pay off, because

493
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 1: then they're like, Okay, right now, I need to talk

494
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 1: to Jeff. But I should say and I didn't do

495
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 1: anything special. I didn't do anything that deserves to be

496
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 1: singled out. I had an advantage having been to combat

497
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 1: a couple of times, and almost nobody that was with

498
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 1: me had any real combat experience, excuse me. So I

499
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 1: had an idea of how to handle myself in a firefight,

500
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: and my faith took over in the middle of it

501
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 1: as well. So I had two advantages that most guys

502
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: didn't have. And Jesus used it, and I mean he

503
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 1: used it in a really power way. So for me,

504
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,439
Speaker 1: one of the clearest moments of my life in my

505
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: walk with Jesus has been immediately after the battle is

506
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: over with I'm standing on this airfield, just got back.

507
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 1: The fight just literally just got over, and I feel

508
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,679
Speaker 1: the Holy Spirit of God tugging in my heart. Like, Jeff,

509
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,479
Speaker 1: the reason why you could fight the way you did

510
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: last night is because you've already nailed down eternity, but

511
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 1: your buddies, those rangers haven't. And I want you to

512
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 1: spend the rest of your life reaching those men and

513
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,959
Speaker 1: women and pour an end to them. And I still

514
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 1: live outside of Fort Benning, Georgia, and still spend all

515
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: of my free time working with the US military trying

516
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: to get warriors ready to go off to combat, knowing

517
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: where they're going to spend eternity. Because from that moment forward,

518
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: there has never been a moment where I question what

519
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to do with the rest of my life.

520
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 1: And by the way, I never saw this one coming. Man.

521
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: I love being an Army ranger. I thought I was

522
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 1: just going to do that forever, and this was totally

523
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:06,439
Speaker 1: out of left field. It was a curve ball that

524
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: I never even saw coming.

525
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, it's incredible. What what did that transition from

526
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 2: you know, army ranger to chaplain? What did that look like?

527
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 2: How did people respond to you? Anything?

528
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 1: That was? Man? That was harder than I ever anticipated.

529
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: So I enlisted in the Army while I was still

530
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: in high school, which means I didn't have any college.

531
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 1: Came back from Somalia and I went straight to my

532
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: pastor and my unit chaplain, and I asked both of

533
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: them the exact same question, how do you know if

534
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: you're being called into ministry? And both of them were

535
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 1: floored by it, and they said, Jeff, if you think

536
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: that's what the Lord is calling you to, well you

537
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: need to go get some education. And they were right.

538
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: So I stayed in the Ranger Regiment as an enlisted

539
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 1: guy and did an undergraduate degree. And then at some

540
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: point I knew I have to go get a theological training.

541
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: But how do you do that with a wife and

542
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: your third baby on the way, single income family, I'm

543
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: the only bread winner. How do you pay the bills?

544
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: And God just worked out all of the details, and honestly,

545
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: he did it all in one phone call in forty

546
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: five minutes one day when I was really freaking out

547
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 1: about this, and He provided the perfect job where I

548
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: could go teach on a college campus, teach ROTC at

549
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 1: a college campus so that I could go across town

550
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: to a school and do my education. I ended up

551
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: having to get out of the military and finish my

552
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: education before coming back on active duty. But when I

553
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: showed back up on active duty, it was before September eleventh,

554
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: and I was serving as a unit chaplain in the

555
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: eighty second Airport Division at the time, and honestly, I thought, man,

556
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: this is going to be easy. It's going to be aimless.

557
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: I know the military, I've got tons of time and service.

558
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: I kind of have an idea. I've been following Jesus

559
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 1: for longer than I've been in the military. This is

560
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: going to be super easy. And what I'm trying to

561
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: tell you in your audience is it wasn't. It was

562
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: anything but easy, because for me, there was a major

563
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: philosophical shift that needed to happen inside my heart, and

564
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: I didn't have any ideas. There were people far smarter

565
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: than me that realized how big that shift was. So

566
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: I'll never forget it. You might laugh at what I'm

567
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: going to say next, but I'm a chaplain in the

568
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: basic course, which is most people have. This is their

569
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: first couple of days in the army, right still trying

570
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 1: to figure out how to lace up their boots, trying

571
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,239
Speaker 1: to figure out how to march information. And I've been

572
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: in the military for thirteen years and in special operations

573
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: for almost all of it, and I'm like, man, I

574
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: got this stuff figured out, and then we go do

575
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: this maneuver under live fire range. Did you guys do

576
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: this in the core.

577
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 2: Not under like this? Okay, so this is very basic

578
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 2: training now, yeah, so this is.

579
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 1: A basic training requirement for everybody in the army. You

580
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: have to know how to individually move under direct fire.

581
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: So they're gonna shoot machine guns over your head and

582
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: you've got to figure out how to maneuver underneath it. Right.

583
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: So I'm with a bunch of chaplains and we're at

584
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: this live fire range and it's night and the bullets

585
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 1: start going over our heads. And I'm not exaggerating when

586
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: I tell you people curl up in the fetal position.

587
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: There's grown men weeping uncontrollably, and I just take off

588
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: like a bullet yea, heading straight in the direction of

589
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: the enemy fire. Because I've been under enemy fire for

590
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: a lot, I know exactly what to do. Listen, you

591
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: can drop an artillery round right next to me, and

592
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: I know exactly how to handle myself. But Jeremy, for me,

593
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: I had an existential, almost an odd of body experience

594
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: when I got all the way up to those machine guns,

595
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: and then it occurred to me, oh, no, I don't

596
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: have a weapon. I don't know the first thing about

597
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 1: how to be a chaplain on the battlefield. Now, if

598
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: I have a rifle in my hands, I know exactly

599
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: how to kill the enemy, but I don't know how

600
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: to be a chaplain. And then I had this really

601
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,959
Speaker 1: traumatic moment where I'm like, what the heck am I

602
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: doing right now? I've got a bible in my cargo pocket,

603
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: I don't have a rifle in my hands. How am

604
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: I supposed to How? How do I bring value to

605
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:36,239
Speaker 1: the battlefield? Is literally what I started asking myself. And

606
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 1: I had to unlearn why it was so hard for

607
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: me because I had to unlearn a lot of what

608
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: I learned. I'm really really good with the rifle in

609
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: my hands in a firefight. I had to unlearn all

610
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: of that and learn. And the chaplain course to Touch

611
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: taught me this that my focus is no longer the enemy.

612
00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: My focus is now Americans and warriors on the battlefield

613
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: and their souls and man. That to this day has

614
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: been a very painful, very difficult transition. I had no

615
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: idea how hard that transition was going to be.

616
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny. I tell the story when I came

617
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 2: back from Iraq. So we're in Iraq, and thirty days

618
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 2: later I was out of the Marine Corps working on

619
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 2: a church staff and the statement.

620
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 1: I love to see you your first or second day

621
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: on that church staff.

622
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 2: For a while, it was a mess for a while.

623
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 2: And I always tell people I've done ministry and I've

624
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 2: done combat, and combat was way easier than ministry, Like

625
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 2: it's it's.

626
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: Here's me, I know what to do next, right.

627
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 2: And this this ministry thing is is wild.

628
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: Ye.

629
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 2: So in that process of transition, I just laughed because

630
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 2: I know, man, it took me a long time to

631
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 2: like and I wasn't a chaplain, but just through pastoral ministry,

632
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 2: it took a long time to finally go, oh, yeah,

633
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 2: this is different than that. How long did it take

634
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 2: you to get your feet under you? How long did

635
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 2: it take you to really engage? And then what was

636
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 2: the response from the soldiers that you're ministering to. You're

637
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 2: not the normal chaplain that shows up and just trying

638
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 2: to figure this thing out?

639
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: Well, true story. So I go straight out of the

640
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: chaplain course to the eighty second Airport Division. Again, this

641
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: is before September eleventh, so we're basically in a peacetime

642
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: military and I go, I get sent to a filled

643
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: artillery battalion, and I'm like, man, are you kidding me

644
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: right now? Why would you send me to a field

645
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 1: I don't know field artillery. I know infantry stuff. Yeah,

646
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,280
Speaker 1: I know how to close with and destroy the enemy.

647
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 1: And the I think there was somebody really smart, and

648
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: I'm talking about God in heaven as well as the

649
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 1: you know, the people at the top guiding this decision.

650
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: Because I show up to a field artillery battalion. I

651
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 1: don't know the first thing about this job on the bout.

652
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: I didn't even know what these things were until the

653
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: day I showed up there, and I had to I

654
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 1: had to learn the value of the rest of the

655
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: toys and the tools on the battlefield. Like for me,

656
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: all that stuff was miles behind me, and I never

657
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: saw any of that. It came over my head, but

658
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: I didn't see the guys and gals shooting it. So

659
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 1: first time I went to the woods with them, I'm

660
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: sitting there and I'm camouflaged up to perfection. You know,

661
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 1: I'm ready to go. If the enemy was two feet

662
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 1: away from me, they wouldn't know that I was there.

663
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 1: And these are guys out there in the middle of

664
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:30,280
Speaker 1: this big open area. They're eating Dorito's chips and they're

665
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 1: firing these howitzers and I'm like, guys, don't you think

666
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: you ought to put a little camouflage on? And They're like, Chaplin,

667
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 1: We're in the middle of a giant open area. I'm

668
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 1: shooting a gun that you can hear from a mile away.

669
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 1: If we get attacked by the enemy right now, my

670
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: little camouflage face is not going to change the factory

671
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: that they can see me and hear me from a

672
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 1: mile away. And I'm like, yeah, you know what, good point, guys.

673
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep my camouflage on though it's just so

674
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,359
Speaker 1: you know, but you guys do your thing. I say

675
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: that because man, I learned, I had mad respect for

676
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: these guys. And not long into this September eleventh happened,

677
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 1: Gee what happened. I get deployed with that unit to

678
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 1: go over to Afghanistan, and I really really loved the

679
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 1: chance to work with that side of the force that

680
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 1: I had never had a chance to serve with before,

681
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 1: and realized how good the entire US military is. I

682
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 1: had only been around one part of the military for

683
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: my entire career, and that's when I got a chance

684
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: to see a much bigger picture, and I consider it

685
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: an honor to have been able to go with those

686
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: guys overseas and to be able to just stand in

687
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:43,720
Speaker 1: their midst If I didn't go to an artillery battalion first,

688
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: I would have ended up being a really bad chaplain.

689
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: And I'm saying this honestly, because I was the one

690
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 1: guy in the unit that knew how to navigate through

691
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 1: the desert. I was the one guy in the unit

692
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: that could remind somebody, Hey, do you realize that you're

693
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: putting those links and rounds for that caliber machine gun

694
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: in upside down? You might want to flip them over

695
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,399
Speaker 1: the other way. They work better the other way, But

696
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 1: nobody wants their chaplain telling them that. So I had

697
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: to learn how to keep my mouth shut. And I

698
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 1: was a really bad chaplain for the first few weeks

699
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: in that unit, until I learned to keep my mouth

700
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:20,399
Speaker 1: shut and focus on people's souls and not so much

701
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 1: on the tactical scenario, and to be honest, for the

702
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 1: rest of my entire career. I had to continue to

703
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: remind myself of that, because I would have been a

704
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 1: really bad chaplain had I not learned that lesson early on,

705
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 1: and maybe by making a mistake or two early on.

706
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,359
Speaker 2: And the timing that was great because the natural thought

707
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 2: I would have had, you know, would be, well, this

708
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 2: guy has experience with the Rangers, so let's send him

709
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 2: to a Ranger unit or whatever. But man, there's a

710
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 2: lot of wisdom in not doing that. Yeah, yeah, incredible.

711
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: Man.

712
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 2: There's a lot of other things I'd love to talk about.

713
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 2: We will talk about them point in the future, I'm

714
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 2: sure over dinner or coffee or maybe we'll do another podcast.

715
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,360
Speaker 2: But let me end with this question, because this is

716
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 2: kind of the overarching premise of this podcast. All of

717
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 2: us find ourselves in those moments where, you know, figuratively hopefully,

718
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 2: but some it's literal. The bullets are flying your direction,

719
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 2: things are going from bad to worse, the mortar rounds

720
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 2: are falling at your feet, and in those moments we

721
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 2: have to make a decision. We can stay where we are.

722
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 2: This is march or die, right. You can stay where

723
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 2: you are and die. That's just throwing the white flag

724
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,720
Speaker 2: up and giving up. Because if you're not moving forward,

725
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 2: you're dead. You can make that decision if you want to,

726
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 2: or you can march, you can get to a place

727
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 2: where you can better affect the enemy and continue to

728
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 2: do what God's called you to do. And we all

729
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 2: find ourselves in those moments. Some of it's overwhelmed because

730
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 2: we've been fighting for a long time. Some of it's

731
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 2: the unexpected, whatever it is. We have these moments where

732
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 2: traumas and obstacles and difficult these and these unexpected relationship

733
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 2: issues and finances whatever pop up in our lives and

734
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 2: we're faced with the decision, are we going to stay

735
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 2: where we are and die or will we march from combat? Experience, experience,

736
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 2: counseling and working with others, pastoring your life, experience, your

737
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 2: personal decision. You know, inflection points when someone's at that

738
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 2: moment where they have to make the decision, how would

739
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:29,919
Speaker 2: you tell them? Every situation is different, but how would

740
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 2: you tell them or how would you counsel them encourage

741
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 2: them to take that next step instead of staying where

742
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 2: they are and just giving up.

743
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, great question. And by the way, I love the

744
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: title of your podcast because I can't tell you how

745
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: many long road marches I've been on for my entire career,

746
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 1: and I felt like there's no way I could take

747
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 1: another step. But you know what, I'm either going to

748
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 1: march or I'm going to die tonight. And yeah, one

749
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: of these days, at some point this road march will

750
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 1: be over with and I'll cross the finish line or

751
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 1: I'll drop dead, but I will I will not quit, right,

752
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 1: which gets to the essence of the question you're asking. Listen,

753
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 1: if I'm real with people, everybody goes through tough stuff.

754
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 1: Everybody's life experiences are different than somebody else's, so I

755
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: can't possibly know what you're going through. You can't know

756
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: what I've gone through, but I do know this. When

757
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,800
Speaker 1: the real crisis moments, and if we're honest, those only

758
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: happen a few times in a manner of Wound's life.

759
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: When those crisis moments happen, you have two choices. I

760
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 1: can freeze and stay where I'm at and let life

761
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: dictate the results. Or I can get up and I

762
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 1: can face what's happening to me. And although I'm terrified

763
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 1: and I just want to get real, the fact that

764
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 1: it's a crisis itself means that it must be terrifying,

765
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 1: and I don't know how it's going to turn out,

766
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 1: and it looks really scary or it might look like

767
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: this is going to be really really bad. But I

768
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: do know this. If I do nothing, then life dictates

769
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 1: the results. If I get up and I move forward,

770
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 1: and maybe it's just one step forward. But if I

771
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: get up and move forward, I don't know how it's

772
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 1: going to turn out. It might be terrible, but then

773
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,919
Speaker 1: again it might not. But I do know this. When

774
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,760
Speaker 1: it's all said and done, I can look back and say, well,

775
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 1: I gave it my all. Maybe it all blew up

776
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,760
Speaker 1: in my face and it turned out terrible anyway, Maybe

777
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:25,879
Speaker 1: it didn't. Maybe in the long run, I ended up

778
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 1: marching one more step and finally crossing the line and

779
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 1: things got better for me. Maybe you didn't. Don't know,

780
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: but I do know this. At the end of my life,

781
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 1: I want to be able to look back and say

782
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 1: I held nothing back, I gave it my all. And

783
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:41,760
Speaker 1: if I can be theological with you for a second,

784
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: not only that, but when I stand before Jesus, I

785
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 1: want him to say the same thing about me. I

786
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: want him to say, Jeff, I watched you, and it

787
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 1: was hard, and you wanted to throw in the towel.

788
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: You wanted to quit, you wanted to freeze and die.

789
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 1: I know you did because I could see inside your soul.

790
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 1: But you got up and you can walking, man, And

791
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 1: now I want to reward you for getting up and

792
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 1: keeping walking. And this, I hope is where every single

793
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 1: one of your listeners, your audience is right now. The

794
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 1: ultimate reward is to hear the King of King say

795
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: well done, good and faithful servant. You wanted to freeze,

796
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 1: You wanted to die, but you didn't. You got up

797
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: and marched anyway. And now I want you to enter

798
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 1: into the rest that I prepared for you. Now it's

799
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 1: time for you to enjoy the reward of getting up

800
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 1: and marching when you really wanted to die. So for me,

801
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 1: hearing Jesus say well done. And I'm not marching to

802
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 1: earn his or earn his approval. I already have his

803
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 1: approval want to. I just want to honor him with

804
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 1: whatever days I have on this earth. So I'm going

805
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:49,399
Speaker 1: to march as hard as I can, for as far

806
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,720
Speaker 1: as I can, and quite literally, I hope I drop

807
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,800
Speaker 1: over dead doing something for him. But when I stand

808
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: before him, I want him to say, I know you

809
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: wanted to die. I know you wanted to freeze, but

810
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 1: you didn't all done, good and faithful servant. Now intern

811
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 1: to the rest that I've prepared for you.

812
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 2: That's awesome, Dan, Jeff, thank you so much. Where can

813
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 2: people learn more about it? You put out a lot

814
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 2: of great content. You have tons of content actually available

815
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:14,919
Speaker 2: for people. Where can they fin sure?

816
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: The easiest way to do that is go to Jeffstruper

817
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: dot com or follow me on social media. But if

818
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 1: you don't mind, I'm going to make a little shameless blog.

819
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,359
Speaker 1: This is entirely free. I don't make anything off of this,

820
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: but just a week ago I started dropping a six

821
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 1: part mini series. It's one hundred percent free, and it's

822
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 1: online on my website, and it is my definitive answer

823
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 1: to the question can you be a Christian? And can

824
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 1: you kill the enemy and still honor God? At the

825
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 1: same time, I want to ask everybody in your audience

826
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,280
Speaker 1: go check this thing out. It's one hundred percent free

827
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 1: and all you have to do is just go to

828
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 1: Jeffstruper dot com to start watching it. It's called a

829
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 1: Warrior's Soul.

830
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 2: Awesome, Jeff. That's wonderful for those that are listening. October.

831
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 2: I forget the date I should have looked at it before.

832
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 2: It's right in the middle of October. If you follow

833
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 2: the Mighty Oaks Foundation, we'll send you more information about

834
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 2: it than you want. You'll you'll be spammed about our

835
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 2: gaia in October. But Jeff is.

836
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: Gonna really stop telling me about this.

837
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 2: Jeff is going to be with us and we'll be

838
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 2: our keynote that night. We have a great time. So

839
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 2: it's a great event. And that's the event really every

840
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 2: year where we focus on what God's done and and

841
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 2: what God is doing and excited to have Jeff. So

842
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 2: you can when that comes out, probably the next month

843
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 2: or so, we'll start putting information out for those that

844
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:31,240
Speaker 2: are listening.

845
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 1: I just want to tell people real quickly. I have

846
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: been a huge fan of Mighty Oaks for a long

847
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 1: long time, and I'm thrilled that my schedule finally worked

848
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:39,760
Speaker 1: out that we could do this together.

849
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 2: Man, it was great. I think it was God. That's

850
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 2: the only the only reason that it worked out. But

851
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 2: that's awesome. Man. For those of you who are listening watching,

852
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 2: thank you. This this episode special episode to me and

853
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 2: to people that you know listen. We're in a moment

854
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 2: right now where a lot of people are asking some

855
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 2: of the questions we just talked about, and and we've

856
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 2: got loved one ones who are deploying, who.

857
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 1: We're sitting on a boat right now, want or if

858
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:06,440
Speaker 1: they're about to invade Iran yep.

859
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 2: And they need to know the answer to some of

860
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 2: these questions. And so this is an episode you need

861
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 2: to forward to them, and of course, anything we can

862
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Speaker 2: do as an organization to help, we want to do that.

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Speaker 2: But thank you for listening, thank you for watching, and

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Speaker 2: we will talk to you next time.