1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: Life audio. 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 2: When it comes to the Cross and understanding what Jesus did, 3 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 2: we can often look at that and be like, Okay, 4 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 2: he saved me, but it doesn't end there. The Cross 5 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 2: also brings healing and that's what we're going to be 6 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 2: talking about today with my guest Ike Miller. 7 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 3: Hello. Hello, Hello, ladies. 8 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 2: And gents, and welcome to this week's episode of the 9 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 2: Bottom Beloved podcast. 10 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 3: My name is Kirby Kelly. Back at it again. 11 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 2: You guys probably know if you've been listening to the 12 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 2: podcast for the past few months, that I pre recorded 13 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 2: a lot of episodes prior to giving birth to my child, 14 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 2: and I still need to make an episode all about 15 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 2: that because that was such a god thing in so 16 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 2: many ways. Becoming a parent has been such a god 17 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 2: thing in so many ways. But this is my first 18 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 2: time jumping back recording an episode post becoming a mom, 19 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 2: and I'm so excited that I get to do that 20 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 2: with a guest today. He's been on the podcast before, 21 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 2: so y'all need to go back and listen to that 22 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 2: previous episode. 23 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:06,199 Speaker 3: I'll ink it down below. 24 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 2: If you enjoyed this episode and you want to hear 25 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 2: more from my guest, Ike Miller. He's awesome. I'm gonna 26 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 2: let him introduce himself. And he actually recently came out 27 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 2: with a new book. It actually comes out today, so 28 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 2: the timing of that is perfect, and it's called Theology 29 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 2: that Heals How the good News of Jesus not only 30 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 2: saves us but makes us whole. When I read that, 31 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 2: when his team reached out to me being like, yo, 32 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 2: he came out with another book, you want him to 33 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 2: come on, I was like, just reading the tagline alone, 34 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 2: I was like, this is incredible. This is everything that 35 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 2: my podcast is about. This is everything I'm about, and 36 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 2: I'm excited for him to share his heart on it. 37 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 2: But before we do that, Ike, welcome again. Can you 38 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 2: introduce yourself to the people who might not know you. 39 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, Kirby, it is so good to be back. Thanks 40 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: again for having me on here. I'm so excited to 41 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: share about this and continue the conversation. As Kirby said, 42 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: my name is Mike Miller. I am a pastor here 43 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: in Durham, North Carolina. My wife and I lead Bright 44 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: City Church and uh so we've been doing that for 45 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: about eight years. We planted this church about eight years ago. 46 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: But in addition to that, I have a PhD in theology, 47 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: and so that plays into the writing of this book. 48 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: And so, yeah, we have three kids, and so I 49 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: know all about the parenting and the transition to parenting, 50 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 1: and uh, my last book, Good Baggage, a lot of 51 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: that came out of me coming to understand the baggage 52 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 1: I carried and how being a parent revealed a lot 53 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 1: of that for me. So you're in for a ride. 54 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: It's a journey. 55 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 2: And your book Good Baggage was so good, Like I 56 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 2: remember I whenever I get books, I do my best 57 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 2: to sit and try and read them, like cover to 58 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 2: cover before my interviews. 59 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 3: But I remember your book Good Baggage. 60 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 2: That was one of those like, oh, I can't put 61 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 2: this one down because it just relates so much to like, 62 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 2: that's good me, and I mean, I think it'll just 63 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 2: translate for everybody. But it came out with another banger 64 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 2: comes out today, theology that heals. When I first read 65 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 2: that tagline, I was like, that's really interesting because I 66 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 2: know that we live in a day and age where 67 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 2: there are so many people who are deconstructing people who 68 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 2: are turned off by Christianity, and a lot of that 69 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,799 Speaker 2: is because they grew up with a theology that hurts. 70 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 2: So tell us a little bit about why you wrote 71 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 2: theology that heals and I guess the heart behind it 72 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 2: because that's a very interesting title. 73 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, there were several things. I mean, one 74 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: is just my love for theology. Theology for me has 75 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: been such a place of worship to read really good, 76 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,079 Speaker 1: rich theology, and so there's like the intellectual aspect. There's 77 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: also the part for me of evangelism. I've really wrestled 78 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: through my life with this idea of what does it 79 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: mean to share the good news? And happy to share 80 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: more about that, But really where it stems from ultimately 81 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: is in being a pastor of these last eight years. 82 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: What I see over and over again is people coming 83 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: in and yes, we all need forgiveness, but what people 84 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: are really searching for is something to do and to 85 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: deal with their pain. What can help with my pain? 86 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: And so as a pastor, continually speaking into that and 87 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:05,839 Speaker 1: realizing I don't think that's just our church, I think 88 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: that is our nationwide. I think that is our world. 89 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: Is we live in a world where the one thing 90 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: that's undeniable is the existence of pain, and so what 91 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: do we do with that? And if we really have 92 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: good news, what does the good news have to say 93 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: about that? And so that's really kind of at the 94 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: core of it. But I went on my own journey 95 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: of deconstruction before I knew what deconstruction was, before that 96 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: was a thing, And a big part of that was 97 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: just I wanted a God who wasn't threatened by big questions, 98 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: that wasn't threatened by questions about pain and brokenness and 99 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: family brokenness. And so a lot of this comes out 100 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: of my own journey of wrestling with what is a 101 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 1: solid Orthodox theology that also speaks to the real lived 102 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 1: experience of living in a broken world that isn't just 103 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: sin that needs forgiving, but sin that needs healing. 104 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 2: That's really good because a lot of people just see 105 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 2: Jesus as Okay, he died on the cross for my sins. 106 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 2: Now I'm good, Like now I can be in really, 107 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 2: you know, I can go to heaven. But they're missing 108 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 2: out on the relationship aspect of doing life with Jesus 109 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 2: actually being transformed and not just transformed in. 110 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 3: The sense of okay, behavior modification. 111 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 2: I'm gonna act better, I'm going to do the things 112 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 2: that Jesus would do right where what would Jesus do? Bracelet, 113 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 2: But there really is this inward transformation and healing that 114 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 2: takes place when we're in relationship with Jesus and you 115 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 2: describe him no, you go on, You're gone. 116 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: Well, I was just gonna say, I think along those lines, 117 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: there is this sense of, well, I've made that decision 118 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 1: to follow Jesus. I know that my relationship before God 119 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: has changed in terms of like, now I'm saved, But 120 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: what does that mean for the pain in my life? 121 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:49,679 Speaker 1: And is it just a matter do I just believe 122 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 1: the right things and all of a sudden that will 123 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: be fixed? And the reality is we've tried that, people 124 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: have tried that, and that just hasn't been it, And 125 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: so we're like, did I not believe enough? Or is 126 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: God not there? When in reality we've kind of treated 127 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: it as like this magic switch that as soon as 128 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,919 Speaker 1: we hit it, all that'll be fixed. And God's like, look, 129 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,359 Speaker 1: there's so much more to it. And the reality is, 130 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: if I just flipped a switch, there's things that you 131 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: would learn about me, about yourself, about your relationships that 132 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: you wouldn't learn if you didn't go through the healing 133 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 1: process that I have for you and so you're exactly right, 134 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: We've got to go deeper than that. 135 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 2: Well. And you talk about you frame it, use a 136 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,280 Speaker 2: lot of language in your book that is around you know, 137 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 2: trauma rooms, surgery, rehabilitation, medicine, recovery, all those things. And 138 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:37,799 Speaker 2: even in the Bible, God himself is defined as Jehovah 139 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 2: rapha right right, the great physician. He's this healer. I mean, 140 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 2: even the Holy Spirit is defined as a comforter. And 141 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 2: we have this language where it is very hands on, 142 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 2: where he is present and he is getting into those 143 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 2: parts that are broken. I mean literally, I was just 144 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,840 Speaker 2: cut up on a table. I would just went through 145 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 2: major surgery to bring my daughter into the world. I 146 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 2: ended up section. I was not planning that it ended 147 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 2: up having to happen that way. And that was my 148 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 2: first major surgery. And I'm like on this table, trusting 149 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 2: these people to give me the right dose of medicine, 150 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 2: to cut me open in all the right places, to 151 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 2: stitch me up in all the right places so that 152 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 2: I can be healed, to give me a plan to 153 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 2: walk out with my recovery, so on and so forth. 154 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 2: And now I've actually gone through a major surgery. The 155 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 2: idea of God being my great Physician is just that 156 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 2: much more comprehendible to me of what that actually looked 157 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 2: like to be in that room, because I was scared. 158 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 3: I was scared going into that. 159 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 2: I had the peace of God, but I was also like, Okay, 160 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 2: this is big, like for so many reasons. But I 161 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 2: would love to hear kind of your your thoughts on 162 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 2: that of the Great physician and how how that is 163 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 2: a very hands on, involved process and maybe how even 164 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 2: for some of us who have fear when it comes 165 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 2: to the parts of our life that need healing, what 166 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 2: that looks like to trust. 167 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 3: Him to handle those parts that might be very vulnerable. 168 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. 169 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: You know, when I thought about this idea of healing, 170 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,239 Speaker 1: and in my church in particular, seeing people experience healing 171 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: and how important that was and how compelling that was 172 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: is they came to understand who Jesus was then looking 173 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: at scripture and seeing oftentimes that's where Jesus began with people, 174 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: was with healing. He went right to what that biggest 175 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: felt need was, which was often pain, brokenness, physical illness, 176 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 1: and he touched that, He spoke to that, and so 177 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: I wanted to kind of back up from that and 178 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: say that's just not one thing that Jesus does that 179 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: he happens to do. This is who he is. This 180 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:48,199 Speaker 1: is who God is. That God does this because it's 181 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: who he is. And so that's where zooming out to say, Okay, 182 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 1: a lot of good theology begins with the Trinity and 183 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: understanding God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. 184 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: And it just so happened we have this beautiful picture 185 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,199 Speaker 1: of Jehovah Rapha, the God who heals, Jesus the great physician, 186 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: the Holy Spirit, the comforter, and the counselor. And I 187 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: was just as I looked through this, I realized, you know, 188 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 1: I think one of the primary ways that scripture tells 189 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: the story of salvation is this idea of healing. And 190 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: if people can come to understand that this is who 191 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: God is at his heart, it invites us into this 192 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 1: exploration of who God is and the goodness and the 193 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: beauty of the Gospel that maybe we've never seen before, 194 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:35,439 Speaker 1: and then we get to be a part of. Okay, 195 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,839 Speaker 1: this idea of salvation isn't just something that I come 196 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 1: to believe the right things, but it's actually a partnership 197 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:46,319 Speaker 1: with Jesus in my healing and in that process of healing. 198 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: And so for me, that's really really been exciting where 199 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: I think I've found at times in my life where 200 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: there's places of pain, and in that there's obviously the 201 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 1: fear of being honest with ourselves about that pain, where 202 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: that's come from, or what we're going to have to 203 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: do to deal with that, And oftentimes you'd rather sweep 204 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: it under the rug and just ignore it or put 205 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: it aside. But I've actually found and being able to say, Okay, actually, 206 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: this is an opportunity for me to experience Jesus in 207 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: a more intimate way, for me to open up and say, 208 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: here's my pain, here's what I'm dealing with. What do 209 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: you want to do in me? What do I learn 210 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: through this process of healing so that I can actually 211 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:25,679 Speaker 1: get to the other side of this, not just sweep 212 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:27,719 Speaker 1: it under the rug and hope it doesn't come back 213 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: out again. 214 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:33,439 Speaker 2: Very real I feel that I kind of want to 215 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 2: play Devil's advocate for a second. 216 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, please, As we do. 217 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 2: See so many moments in scripture where Jesus interacts with 218 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:44,199 Speaker 2: these people and like you said, he heals them, whether 219 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 2: that's you know, something that they're going through a physical ailment, pain, brokenness, 220 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 2: and idea that they have about themselves whatever, you know, 221 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 2: redefined identity. But healing can also be a process, and 222 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 2: I know that sometimes it can be really discouraging for 223 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 2: us as believers to read scripture to see that there 224 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 2: are these moments where God just instantaneously does the healing. 225 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 2: He immediately brings the relief. But then maybe some of 226 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 2: us believers are still going. 227 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 3: Through a process. 228 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 2: We're still struggling, we're frustrated because we've been praying for 229 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 2: years over something, whether it's great for shame or trauma 230 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 2: or pain. Like, what encouragement would you give to the 231 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 2: person today, specifically the Christian today, who might even be like, Okay, 232 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 2: God did it for them, but why isn't he doing 233 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 2: it for me? 234 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's such a great question. You know. One of 235 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: the things that I found to be so encouraging, And 236 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: it was one of those verses that you hear it 237 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: and you're like, is that really in the Bible? Like 238 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: how did I not catch this the first time around? 239 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 3: Or whatever? 240 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: And this is what I think is at the core 241 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: of the problem with the prosperity Gospel, This idea, if 242 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: I just do everything right, Jesus will fix things for me. 243 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: He will make me healthy, happy, He'll give me everything 244 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: I need. And the problem with it is is this 245 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: verse from Hebrews and it says that Jesus learned obedience 246 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: through what he suffered. And I read that and I'm like, 247 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: wait a minute, what Jesus learned obedience? What are you 248 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 1: talking about? Okay, did Jesus sin and he learned to 249 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: be obedient? No, that's not what it's talking about. What 250 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: it's talking about is even though Jesus was perfect and 251 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: obeyed the law perfectly, there was something that he learned 252 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: about the goodness of obedience through suffering that he couldn't 253 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: have learned any other way. And so for me, as 254 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: I think about the pain in my life, the suffering 255 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: in my life, yes, like I wish it would go away. 256 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: I wish it would just be taken away immediately. But 257 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: I also know that if there were things that Jesus 258 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: learned through his suffering, there's things that I can learn 259 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: through my suffering. And so it's not a matter of 260 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: how I just take on as much suffering as possible, 261 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: but it is an opportunity to say, Okay, God, you're 262 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: inviting me into a yes, it's painful, but a more 263 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: intimate relationship with you through this, and I want to 264 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 1: learn what you have for me in this journey. And 265 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 1: as soon as you're ready to take it away, take 266 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: it away, but in that process, help me learn what 267 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 1: you want me to learn. And that's where the beauty 268 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:10,199 Speaker 1: of the comforter comes in this spirit, is that we 269 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: have that spirit with us to comfort us in those 270 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: moments where we can say, God, I'm not trying to 271 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: sweep this under the rug and just assume like you're 272 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: going to fix this. I need to be honest, like 273 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,559 Speaker 1: this is hard, this is painful, And that comforter someone's 274 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: alongside of us and doesn't just say well, just believe, 275 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,199 Speaker 1: just trust, but is there to say, look, what you're 276 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: experiencing is real, it's painful. Let's be honest about that. 277 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 1: And one of the things that I've encouraged people to do, 278 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: and this is why I tried to really narrate a 279 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: lot of stories of scripture throughout this book, is to 280 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: say when we have those moments where are like, God, 281 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 1: why aren't you fixing this for me? There's tons of 282 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: stories of scripture where that's the case as well where 283 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: people are living in fear and the uncertainty, And so 284 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: what I'll tell people is I was like, you know, 285 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: one of the beautiful things about Scripture is there are 286 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: stories of people going through things very similar to us 287 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 1: that we can read their stories, we can put them 288 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: in put ourselves in their place, and we don't have 289 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 1: to say, God, what are you saying to me through this? 290 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: But God, what did you say to them? And so 291 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: the story of Israel going out into the wilderness and 292 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: this story of them being kind of out there and 293 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: without any certainty, without any confidence where their next meal 294 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: is going to come from, and feeling abandoned by God 295 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: at times, and they're like, Moses, why did you bring 296 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: us out here to die? And yet there was so 297 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: much that Israel had to learn through that journey. And 298 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: I just find it so powerful when we are able 299 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: to put ourselves in the shoes of people of stories 300 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: of Scripture and be able to say, Okay, this is 301 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: what it looked like for them to trust you. What 302 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: does it look like for me to trust you in 303 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: the midst of this as well? 304 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 2: Well? And to even just like go off of that 305 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 2: with the with the theology element of it, that's like 306 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 2: proper hermeneutics is what did it mean for them then 307 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 2: and there? And understanding that context, what does this mean 308 00:14:55,880 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 2: for me here and now? And a lot of it isn't. Oh, 309 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 2: this thing I'm facing is my goliath and I'm gonna. 310 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 3: Throw a stone at it like I can. 311 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 2: We can so often make ourselves the main character of 312 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 2: someone else's story, but it's God who's the main character. 313 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 2: And seeing how he shows up in the story continuously, 314 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 2: faithfully every time, that is where we can glean confidence from. 315 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 2: That is where we can glean hope from. That is 316 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 2: where we can begin to analyze ourselves and be. 317 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 3: Like, Okay, well what do what might I need to 318 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 3: do differently? 319 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 2: Or maybe I just need to begin to trust in God, 320 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 2: not even do anything, just simply have faith, which is 321 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 2: honestly one of the hardest things that we can do. 322 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 2: It's the simplest thing we're called to do and the 323 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 2: hardest thing. I believe Judas Smith is the one that 324 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 2: said that, and I'm like. 325 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 3: That is so true. 326 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and and that's kind of the core 327 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: of what I we've throughout this whole story is what 328 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: we see with Adam and Eve, the brokenness happens. There 329 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: is ultimately the choice of self reliance over utter dependence 330 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: on God that in that moment they thought, Okay, I 331 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: can add something to God's good creation. If I can 332 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: control this, it actually gives me a greater sense of peace. 333 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 1: And what we see throughout so much of Scripture, then 334 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: is humanity relearning the goodness and the freedom and the 335 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: joy of living in utter dependence on Him. And so 336 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: much of our suffering is about that process of coming 337 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: to what does it look like to live in utter 338 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: dependence on God? Even in the midst of circumstances where 339 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: it feels like I know better? 340 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 2: Yes, I mean surrender like that that's the main word 341 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 2: right there, And I feel like, even to just speak 342 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 2: very candidly, that's what I'm currently walking through, Like I remember, 343 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 2: and I'm talking about giving birth because that's literally the 344 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 2: most relevant thing that absolutely. Yeah. But as I was 345 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 2: mentally and physically preparing for that, I remember the Lord 346 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 2: giving me the word surrender, and I was like, Okay, 347 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 2: surrender to the process, surrender to the pain, all these things, 348 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 2: and things ended up going completely different. I had to 349 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 2: surrender in that. But even right now, nothing prepared me 350 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 2: for postpartum. Nothing prepared me for that, And in this season, 351 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, wait, as much as you wanted me 352 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 2: to surrender, then I think you want me to surrender 353 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:24,719 Speaker 2: even more right now to trusting you with my mental health. 354 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,400 Speaker 2: It's been terrible if I'm being honest, like trusting him 355 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 2: with my mental health, trusting him with my physical health, 356 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 2: trusting him with my emotional and spiritual health, trusting him 357 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 2: with the lack of sleep, trusting him with my child 358 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 2: like there's so many trusting him with my marriage, my ministry, 359 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 2: Like everything is so different now, and it's like, oh, 360 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,679 Speaker 2: my goodness, I really have to surrender and yield to 361 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 2: you because I cannot do any of this out of 362 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 2: my own strength. I am realizing how depleted I am 363 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:59,919 Speaker 2: as a person in every aspect of my life just 364 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,919 Speaker 2: because of the season I'm in. But it's caused me, 365 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 2: And maybe this is an encouragement to somebody that if 366 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 2: you feel like you are at rock bottom, it's a 367 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,880 Speaker 2: good thing that Christ is the rock on which we stand. 368 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 3: Because it's like I can actually. 369 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 2: Fall down to the ground and surrender and let go 370 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 2: of everything and just be like I can't do this today, but. 371 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 3: I can through you, with you and for you. And 372 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 3: so that's how I've been going day by day. And 373 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,360 Speaker 3: that sounds kind of sad. But when I. 374 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,360 Speaker 2: Actually do acknowledge my weakness and that I need the 375 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 2: healer to help me in the areas where I feel broken, 376 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 2: he comes through, and he does exceedingly and abundantly more 377 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 2: as I continue to trust in him. Because it can 378 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 2: be easy to pray those prayers and then to be like, Okay, now, 379 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 2: let me pick it all back up again and try 380 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 2: and do it by myself. And that's my tendency, but 381 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 2: I'm really having to learn to let go and be like, 382 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 2: I have to yield to you. 383 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 3: I have to surrender to you. I have to trust 384 00:18:58,200 --> 00:18:58,439 Speaker 3: in you. 385 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 2: And I've made it this far and He's still carrying me, 386 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 2: and I'm thankful for that. That surrender teaches us that 387 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 2: we don't have to do it all. 388 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 3: We don't have to carry it all. 389 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 2: It's actually better that we don't, so that we yield 390 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 2: it all to God. 391 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's you know, that's the process so many 392 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,719 Speaker 1: of us have to go through, is the pain of 393 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: trying to carry it all ourselves before we're willing to say, 394 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: you know what, it's better if I let you carry 395 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: it if I don't carry it myself. And one of 396 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: the really painful seasons of my life back in twenty twenty. 397 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: Obviously it was a difficult time for all of us 398 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: with the pandemic, but I found myself in a similar 399 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: place to kind of what you're talking about, where I 400 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: believe that there was this satisfaction that we could get 401 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: from being in God's presence, from reading his word, this 402 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 1: sense that Okay, if I can just be with you, 403 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: then that will deal with my mental health and my 404 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:52,199 Speaker 1: emotional health and the fears and the anxieties that I carry. 405 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 1: And so I would spend time in his word, and 406 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: then I would go back to kind of day to 407 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: day life, and I'd be like, where is that satisfaction 408 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 1: that I thought you were gonna give me? Where's that 409 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: piece that I thought you were gonna give me? And 410 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 1: in the midst of that, I came to this verse 411 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,880 Speaker 1: and so I think it's seventeen where he says, when 412 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: I awake, I will find my satisfaction in your presence. 413 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: And I was in that moment I just realized I'm 414 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: trying to spend time with him and then take his 415 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: satisfaction as if I can get that apart from his presence, 416 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: and so much of my journey and what I talk 417 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: about in this book as well, is how we can't 418 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 1: have his satisfaction apart from his presence. They go together. 419 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,439 Speaker 1: And so in those moments where I feel overwhelmed or 420 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 1: I'm so full of anxiety or feel overwhelmed by the 421 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:39,919 Speaker 1: things that I'm caring, what does it look like for 422 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: me to be reminded? Okay, what does it look like 423 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: to actually do this with Jesus, To invite Jesus into 424 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 1: this and to say, Jesus, I can't carry this by myself, 425 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: but I know if you're with me, I have everything 426 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: I need for this moment. And so how do I 427 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: live from that place? And so that's kind of the 428 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 1: the I talk about in this chapter participating in the 429 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: mental health of Christ and just this idea of how 430 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,400 Speaker 1: that's you know, mental health is something that's so important 431 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: for all of us, and we've learned over the last 432 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: five to six years, if not ten years, just how 433 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: critical our mental health is for us. And so what 434 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: does it look like not just for us to participate 435 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:22,199 Speaker 1: in Christ, but if Christ embodied all of this, So well, 436 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 1: sometimes we just want to possess all of that. I 437 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,919 Speaker 1: just want to be healed and perfect forever, and it 438 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: just doesn't work that way. But we do get to 439 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:36,719 Speaker 1: participate in his when we choose to say, Okay, Jesus, 440 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: I don't have this in myself, but I can have 441 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: it in you. How do I enjoy that in you 442 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 1: and go from there? 443 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 3: That's so good? Well, and even it makes me think. 444 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 3: There's this one verse it's in Deuteronomy. I'm trying to 445 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 3: remember where, but it talks. 446 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 2: About like, you know, when the chariots come and when 447 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 2: the armies come. It's like there's going to be battles 448 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 2: that we're going to face. And sometimes that looks like, 449 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,639 Speaker 2: I mean, this is a very global podcast. Sometimes that 450 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,199 Speaker 2: does look like the persecuted church and being persecuted for 451 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 2: your faith. Other times it might just be what you're 452 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 2: going on, what's going on at work, or you know, 453 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 2: Satan the enemy, he's laying traps and snares everywhere trying 454 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 2: to get at us, whether it's just in our own 455 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 2: life and areas of temptation. There's so many avenues and 456 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 2: areas where there are battles, but the battle of the 457 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 2: mind the battle of our emotions, the battle of our 458 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 2: own will to surrender to trust in God. Those are 459 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 2: very real too, and we have to learn and like 460 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 2: you said, kind of understand that just because I'm going 461 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 2: through this thing and this thing pops up again, doesn't 462 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,199 Speaker 2: mean I'm a bad Christian or I'm void of the 463 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 2: presence of God, or am I even saved? 464 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 3: Because I'm going through these things? Has God abandoned me? 465 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 2: I mean we see that, Like you said, with Israel 466 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 2: when they were going through the wilderness, it's like where 467 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 2: did he go? And it's like he just split a 468 00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 2: sea for you? And did you not see that? 469 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 3: Plagues? And what about everything else he's done before that? 470 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,679 Speaker 2: Right, this act of remembrance, I think some of us 471 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 2: need to get back to this act of remembrance. 472 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 3: Of Okay, your people, for all of. 473 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,199 Speaker 2: Time have gone through things because we live in a 474 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 2: broken world, and we in and of ourselves are broken 475 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 2: people who sometimes operate in that brokenness or are affected 476 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 2: by brokenness, and that's why we have all these issues 477 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 2: and problems and things. But that does not negate the 478 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 2: presence of God, that does not omit the goodness of God. 479 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 2: That doesn't mean that his perfect plans aren't at work 480 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 2: as we're still going through really hard things. 481 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:41,159 Speaker 3: I even wrote a book. I came out with a 482 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 3: book back in. 483 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 2: April, a couple of weeks before I speak him a mom, 484 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 2: the craziest month of my life. Yes, all about hope 485 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 2: and redemption and about how God weaves redemption into every season, 486 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 2: like he can bring about good plans and good purposes 487 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 2: in things that we're going through. But I'd even love 488 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 2: to just hear your thoughts on that when it comes 489 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 2: to redemption in our lives as believers, because I think 490 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 2: that's something that we need to be continuously encouraged in. 491 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 2: When it comes to healing, I think that healing and 492 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 2: redemption definitely go hand in hand with just who God 493 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 2: is and how He works in our lives. 494 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, one of the things that I made 495 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: a big point in Good Baggage to talk about was how, 496 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: especially with our traumas, the things we experienced as children 497 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: in particular, I am not a proponent of the idea 498 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: of everything happens for a reason. I think that that 499 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 1: just there's a lot of kind of things that get 500 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: justified in that that are evil and should not be justified. 501 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: But what I did argue for is a notion of 502 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 1: redemption where there are things that happened to us that 503 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: God did not want to happen, that God did not 504 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 1: desire to happen, that was out of the evil or 505 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 1: sin of someone or somebody acting out of the sin 506 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: that was done against them. But that doesn't mean God 507 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: can't heal them, that doesn't mean God can't redeem them. 508 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,640 Speaker 1: And actually, I think that's a more beautiful, powerful image redemption. 509 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: And so with theology that heals, I wanted to dig 510 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: into that more and to dig into what is the 511 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 1: theology behind how God does that work and why God 512 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 1: does the work that way, And that's where I drew 513 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: on really the rich tradition of the Church. I think 514 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: we've thought about as salvation as just kind of one 515 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: this transaction that happens where Jesus dies in our place 516 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: and that sets us free, and that is absolutely true. 517 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: But when you look across the history of the Church, 518 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: there are so many beautiful pictures and images and theories 519 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: of atonement that the Church has talked about that actually 520 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: play into this, and one of them that I love 521 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: actually has to do with this idea of Christ taking 522 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: on human flesh as a way of healing the flesh. 523 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: That it wasn't just he came and became human, because 524 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,360 Speaker 1: I was a part of how he fulfilled the coveted perfectly, 525 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 1: but actually him coming and taking on human flesh was 526 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,640 Speaker 1: a way of healing flesh. And John chapter nine, there's 527 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: this picture where Jesus comes with this man born blind 528 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: and he makes this salv out of the dirt and 529 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 1: places it on the man's eyes and he tells him 530 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 1: to go wash. And you're like, why did he tell 531 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: him to go wash? Like why couldn't he just kill him? Yeah, exactly, 532 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 1: and it's like, no, there's this process of him coming 533 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,199 Speaker 1: to understand fully what's happened to him. And So what 534 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: I love and what I talk about in the book 535 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: is this chapter on kind of the incarnation of Christ 536 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,919 Speaker 1: becoming our healing salve and how that notion of salve 537 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,679 Speaker 1: is in our words salvation. You think about a salve 538 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: as this thing that is is put on a wound 539 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: to take away the pain, to begin the healing process. 540 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: And I think with redemption, we kind of want it 541 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:44,160 Speaker 1: to be instantaneous and just it happens immediately, but sometimes 542 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,919 Speaker 1: redemption has an arc to it, and it begins in 543 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: a way that we don't fully see where it's ultimately headed. 544 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: But a lot of us, I think that's where we 545 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 1: like the idea of if I just ask for forgiveness, 546 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: everything's fixed, but we miss out on the beauty of 547 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 1: know there's actually a journey and this is gonna I 548 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: want to tell you a story because I think this 549 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,879 Speaker 1: narrates it well, but it kind of takes a moment, 550 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,439 Speaker 1: which is I know someone who had experienced extreme trauma 551 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 1: as a childhood in their childhood, and during that time, 552 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: I think they didn't really know what does this mean 553 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: for God? And now that I'm out of that context, 554 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: and so they went to some counseling for it, and 555 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,159 Speaker 1: they were told, you just need to repent, You just 556 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: need to ask for forgiveness, and that will fix it. 557 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: If you'll acknowledge your sin in this, it will fix it. 558 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,879 Speaker 1: And that's a beautiful ideal, like that makes it easy. 559 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: All I gotta do is snap my fingers and it's healed. 560 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,199 Speaker 1: But it doesn't work that way. And so when it 561 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 1: didn't take into account, no, this was trauma that was 562 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: done to them, Someone hurt them. This isn't sin that 563 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: they did. This is sin that was committed against them. 564 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 1: And so before we talk about us repenting to sin 565 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:53,680 Speaker 1: or this person repenting of sin, we first need to 566 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,679 Speaker 1: talk about and acknowledge the sin that was done to 567 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 1: them and how that's affected them, and how that affects 568 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: how they see God and how they see others. That's 569 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 1: a part of the redemption as well, is it changes 570 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 1: how they see other people, how they see themselves. So 571 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 1: then they can say, Okay, when God says he loves me, 572 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: he really means it. I can believe that. I can 573 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 1: trust that that's not going to change tomorrow. And that's 574 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: a part of our redemption as well, is coming to 575 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: understand that how people interacted with us in the past, 576 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: how that shaped us, can also be healed so that 577 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,120 Speaker 1: we can experience the fullness of redemption that Jesus has 578 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:27,880 Speaker 1: for us as well. 579 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,359 Speaker 2: I love I especially love that that imagery of a 580 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:36,160 Speaker 2: salve and our salvation. I'm like, wow, like putting those 581 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 2: two and two together, I'm like, that's that's such a 582 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 2: bigger idea of knowing what Christ went through, how he 583 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 2: was wounded, but ins healed our own wounds. Like it's 584 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 2: just it's so beautiful that we serve a great physician 585 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 2: who who himself was wounded so that we could be restored. 586 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 3: I'm like, that's like, that's just beautiful. 587 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: Yea, you know, you can't. What I wanted to floor 588 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: so much in this is I think there is so 589 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: much beauty to it. And one of the kind of 590 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 1: there's the incarnation Christ becoming are salve. But then there's 591 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: the what I call the surgical removal of sin in 592 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: the crucifixion. And you talked about kind of having to 593 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 1: go through, you know, a C section and having a baby, 594 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: and like the surgery of that and how scary that 595 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: is and how painful that is. But the truth is like, 596 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: there there's beauty that comes out of that pain. There's 597 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: goodness that comes out of that pain. And when yes, exactly, 598 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: and with our sin and the need for that to 599 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: be removed, we were the ones who should have undergone 600 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: that surgery. We were the ones who needed that surgery done. 601 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: And yet here we have the great physician who doesn't 602 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: only name that force but says, you know what, I've 603 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: given you the problem. The diagnosis is we need to 604 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: remove this, but I'm going to go under the knife 605 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: for you yeah, and just the power of that image 606 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: and how that changes it from just this notion of 607 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: like punishment. But also this is a process of our healing. 608 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: Is that he's going through the surgery to remove the 609 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: sin that we should have had to go through, but 610 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: he's going through it for us so that we can 611 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: then have through the resurrection the medicine of immortality. And 612 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: so just this whole picture of how this is all 613 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: about his healing work for us, but also of all 614 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: creation well. 615 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 2: And something that you do throughout your book too that 616 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 2: I think is really awesome is that you look at 617 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 2: healing throughout the whole meta narrative of scripture, like from 618 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 2: beginning to end, not just the Cross. I mean, the 619 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 2: cross is like the pinnacle point of that. But we 620 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 2: serve the same. 621 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 3: God you talked about it. 622 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 2: We serve a triune God, the Father, the Son, the 623 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 2: Holy Spirit. So even back in the Old Testament where 624 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 2: we can kind of label him as bad God versus 625 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 2: good God, and it's like, no, he's the same God, 626 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 2: and he's actually just in kind and all of these 627 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 2: things and more revealed through the person of Christ. 628 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 3: Right, we can see. 629 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 2: Even in the Old Testament that he has this heart 630 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 2: to heal as you were just talking about how he 631 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,719 Speaker 2: underwent it himself. He even makes me think of Abraham, 632 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 2: how he made a covenant with himself so. 633 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 3: That it wouldn't be broken. 634 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 2: And it's like time and time again, he's he's going 635 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 2: the extra mile for us. He's putting his his name 636 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 2: and his vows and himself on the line to be 637 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 2: in relationship with humanity, but to also restore humanity, humanity, 638 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 2: bring healing to humanity. 639 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 3: And I'm just like, this is our God. This is 640 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 3: who we get to be in relationship with. 641 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 2: This is who we can trust to bind up our wounds, 642 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 2: Like how can how can we read scripture truthfully and honestly, 643 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 2: not with our own biases and our own from our 644 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 2: own perspectives of pain and be like, well, this must 645 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,479 Speaker 2: mean this. But when we look at it contextually and 646 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 2: honestly and honor the word of God for what it is, 647 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 2: and we see God for who he is, It's like, 648 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 2: how how can you not run to him with your 649 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 2: pain and know that he will do something greater with him, 650 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 2: he will bring the healing. But I want to leave 651 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 2: readers to actually go and get your book. 652 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 3: I would love for them to get your book. It's 653 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 3: actually out today, So. 654 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 2: Where can people pick it up if they want to 655 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 2: grab a copy of it? 656 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, It's available wherever books are sold, Amazon, Target dot Com. 657 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 1: You can get it at Baker Books. You can get 658 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: it anywhere that you would normally get a book. You 659 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: can pick it up. 660 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 2: Perfect and again, if you guys want to, I will 661 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 2: link it down below. But if you are I don't 662 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 2: know a Barnes and Noble person or an audible person 663 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 2: or whatever, you can look up theology that heals how 664 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 2: the good News of Jesus not only saves us but 665 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 2: makes us whole by my friend Ike Miller. 666 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 3: It is out today. You can get it everywhere. 667 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 2: Like he said, are there any last encouragements or thoughts 668 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:44,959 Speaker 2: or things that you want to say to everybody before 669 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:46,719 Speaker 2: we wrap up the pod today? 670 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, a big part of this is I 671 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 1: want people to understand the heart of God. Ultimately, this 672 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 1: book is intended to be an exploration of the beauty 673 00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: of God, but also just the heart of God for 674 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: us as His people, wherever we find ourselves. And so 675 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: my hope for you in writing this book is not 676 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,479 Speaker 1: just that it is psychologically helpful or that it is 677 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: a good treatment of scripture, but that actually leads you 678 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: to understand just how big and full and compassionate God's 679 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: heart is for his people. And so that's my prayer 680 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: for you as you pick this up and read it, 681 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: is that you would experience that in just a new 682 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: and profound way. 683 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 2: Well I know that people will, because based off of 684 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 2: everything I read, I was like, this is good stuff. 685 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 3: So it has the Curby seal of. 686 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 2: Approval, so that matters to anybody who's listening. Definitely get 687 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 2: your copy because it is available today. Ike, thank you 688 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 2: for being faithful to writing this book, and thank you 689 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 2: for coming on the podcast. I'm so excited to have 690 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 2: you back, and I can't wait to have you back 691 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 2: for your third and your fourth and your fifth. 692 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: Fu Well, thank you so much for having me. Is 693 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: such a gift. I love that I get to be 694 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: the first one after coming back from having a baby. 695 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,120 Speaker 1: Congratulations to you on that, and thanks again for having. 696 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,960 Speaker 2: Absolutely And to all of you who tuned in today, 697 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 2: I pray that this episode blessed you. If it did, 698 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,840 Speaker 2: let me know. You can leave a like or a 699 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,280 Speaker 2: rating if you're listening on YouTube or if you're listening 700 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 2: on Apple podcast, or wherever it is that you like 701 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,719 Speaker 2: to consume this episode share it with people too. I'm 702 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 2: sure that there's a bunch of people out there who 703 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 2: need some healing, who need some hope, who need encouragement, 704 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 2: who need to. 705 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 3: Know who Jesus is. 706 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:26,759 Speaker 2: Send them this episode, or send them any of the 707 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 2: episodes that I've recorded, because trust me, there's a lot, 708 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,320 Speaker 2: and I got some cool new ones coming, new guests, 709 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 2: episodes of just me sitting and talking. It's been a 710 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 2: minute since I've done that, but I'm excited to just 711 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 2: jump back into ministry as I balance this brand new 712 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:43,359 Speaker 2: season of flight. 713 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 3: It's amazing and hard, so pray for me. 714 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 2: But I love you guys, and I'll see you here 715 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,400 Speaker 2: next week for another episode on the Botton Beloved Podcast. 716 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,800 Speaker 3: But until then, love you bye. 717 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 2: For more life giving, faith based podcasts just like this one, 718 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,279 Speaker 2: check out lifeaudio dot com, a proud partner of the 719 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 2: Botan Beloved podcast.