1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,799 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Love Offering Podcast. I'm your host, Rachel Adams, 3 00:00:09,900 --> 00:00:12,619 Speaker 2: author of Everyday Prayers for Love, Learning to Love God, Others, 4 00:00:12,740 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 2: and Even Yourself. Each week we dive into meaningful conversations 5 00:00:16,180 --> 00:00:18,780 Speaker 2: about how to live out the greatest commandment, living God 6 00:00:18,820 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 2: with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength, and 7 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 2: loving our neighbors as ourselves. Whether through inspiring stories, practical wisdom, 8 00:00:25,180 --> 00:00:27,570 Speaker 2: or biblical truth, my hope is to encourage you to 9 00:00:27,700 --> 00:00:31,150 Speaker 2: love boldly, live faithfully, and reflect God's love in your 10 00:00:31,210 --> 00:00:34,769 Speaker 2: everyday life. Today, I'm honored to welcome Laura Whiffler to 11 00:00:34,909 --> 00:00:38,489 Speaker 2: the show. Laura is a poet, educator, and best-selling author 12 00:00:38,510 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 2: of books for both adults and children. Laura's debut poetry collection, 13 00:00:43,409 --> 00:00:46,020 Speaker 2: This Side of the Sky, gives language to what so 14 00:00:46,050 --> 00:00:49,220 Speaker 2: many women feel but struggle to name. With honesty and hope, 15 00:00:49,260 --> 00:00:51,380 Speaker 2: she explores what it means to grow older in a 16 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 2: fallen body, wrestle with grief and suffering, and live in 17 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,930 Speaker 2: a world that feels both heavy and holy. Through poetry 18 00:00:58,070 --> 00:01:01,340 Speaker 2: and scripture, Laura reminds us that we can be honest 19 00:01:01,410 --> 00:01:04,980 Speaker 2: about life's pain without losing faith, and that even here, 20 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,460 Speaker 2: this side of heaven, we are held by a God 21 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 2: who is tender and present. Well, hello, Laura, and welcome 22 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 2: to the Love Offering Podcast. I'm so happy to have you. 23 00:01:14,420 --> 00:01:16,060 Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. It's an honor to be here. 24 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 2: So for those that don't know you, will you just 25 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 2: introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about you 26 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:23,020 Speaker 2: and your life? 27 00:01:23,590 --> 00:01:26,330 Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah. As you noted, my name is Laura Whittler 28 00:01:26,550 --> 00:01:28,970 Speaker 1: and I live in central Iowa with my husband and 29 00:01:29,050 --> 00:01:33,290 Speaker 1: three kids. We have a really cute golden doodle. And 30 00:01:33,310 --> 00:01:35,780 Speaker 1: then we also just got two kittens. So my children 31 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: will be remiss if I did not mention all of 32 00:01:37,500 --> 00:01:39,380 Speaker 1: our animals. And we are now a family of nine 33 00:01:39,420 --> 00:01:42,700 Speaker 1: or eight. I can't even count, but three kids, three pets. 34 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: And so that's kind of my daily life. I'm the 35 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,500 Speaker 1: primary caretaker of my kids. So I'm definitely hanging out 36 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: with them as much as I can when they're not 37 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,180 Speaker 1: in school. And then my other life that I have, 38 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:55,100 Speaker 1: my professional career, I have the privilege of getting to 39 00:01:55,140 --> 00:01:57,980 Speaker 1: be a writer and an entrepreneur. That sums up a 40 00:01:58,020 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: lot of different things that I do. Everything from primarily 41 00:02:01,220 --> 00:02:03,900 Speaker 1: what you mentioned here, which is getting to write poetry 42 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,580 Speaker 1: and write for adults and for kids. And I have 43 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:08,180 Speaker 1: my new book, The Side of the Sky, coming out. 44 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:13,079 Speaker 1: in September. And then I also dabble in the online 45 00:02:13,100 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: space where, like you said, the Kill It Lab, but 46 00:02:14,980 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 1: then also I'm developing an app called Sword Drill for 47 00:02:17,980 --> 00:02:21,300 Speaker 1: Bible trivia. I have a website that I help authors 48 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,580 Speaker 1: have their websites, like hosting their own websites. And so 49 00:02:24,620 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: I do a lot of different dabbling in online businesses 50 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:28,580 Speaker 1: and it's a lot of fun. 51 00:02:29,669 --> 00:02:33,450 Speaker 2: So have you always had this entrepreneurial spirit? Like growing up, 52 00:02:33,650 --> 00:02:35,230 Speaker 2: you just had big dreams and you're like, I'm going 53 00:02:35,250 --> 00:02:37,130 Speaker 2: to own all these businesses. I've always been good at 54 00:02:37,180 --> 00:02:39,540 Speaker 2: writing and have always been a dreamer and knew what 55 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 2: your gifts were. 56 00:02:40,460 --> 00:02:41,580 Speaker 1: I did not know my gifts. 57 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:42,020 Speaker 3: No, no. 58 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,380 Speaker 1: But I would say I was raised in a family 59 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,190 Speaker 1: of entrepreneurs. So my dad and he has four brothers 60 00:02:47,260 --> 00:02:49,770 Speaker 1: and many of them are also entrepreneurial. So I definitely 61 00:02:49,930 --> 00:02:53,390 Speaker 1: saw that up close and personal. The small business ownership, 62 00:02:53,470 --> 00:02:57,399 Speaker 1: the gumption, the go-get mentality. And certainly, I think my 63 00:02:57,460 --> 00:03:01,070 Speaker 1: parents raised us with a belief that because both my 64 00:03:01,110 --> 00:03:03,230 Speaker 1: brothers are also entrepreneurs. I have two older brothers and 65 00:03:03,250 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: all three of us are. My parents really raised us 66 00:03:05,850 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: with the belief that the sky is the limit. And 67 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:10,700 Speaker 1: we all know the sky is not actually the limit. 68 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: It's a little bit lower. But this element of really 69 00:03:14,180 --> 00:03:17,139 Speaker 1: encouraging us to pursue our dreams, that failure is not 70 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,530 Speaker 1: a bad thing, that really a mistake or a failure 71 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:22,650 Speaker 1: is just a great way to learn and grow and 72 00:03:22,669 --> 00:03:25,410 Speaker 1: to progress. And so I think there was an element 73 00:03:25,750 --> 00:03:28,620 Speaker 1: of both just like a mentality in our own home 74 00:03:28,630 --> 00:03:31,460 Speaker 1: growing up that, hey, entrepreneurialism is the best way because 75 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,500 Speaker 1: you can kind of carve your own path. There's no ceiling. 76 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: And then this idea too, that how exciting is it 77 00:03:37,260 --> 00:03:40,750 Speaker 1: that you can always grow and learn and change and that, 78 00:03:41,290 --> 00:03:44,410 Speaker 1: you know, you can, when you're an entrepreneur, I think 79 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: it just, you have to like be very self-motivated and 80 00:03:46,980 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: you have to be very self-disciplined. And we were kind 81 00:03:49,140 --> 00:03:51,900 Speaker 1: of raised with those being important character traits in our 82 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,020 Speaker 1: family among many things. But I would attribute a lot 83 00:03:55,060 --> 00:03:56,970 Speaker 1: of it to just the way that we were raised 84 00:03:57,220 --> 00:03:58,550 Speaker 1: and the culture of our home. 85 00:03:59,850 --> 00:04:01,690 Speaker 2: I relate so much to what you're saying. So my 86 00:04:01,710 --> 00:04:04,670 Speaker 2: dad is an entrepreneur and so my husband and I 87 00:04:04,870 --> 00:04:07,070 Speaker 2: are as well. And as well as my brothers, I 88 00:04:07,110 --> 00:04:10,070 Speaker 2: have two brothers. And so I'm like nodding my head 89 00:04:10,090 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 2: the whole time that you are talking because it is 90 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 2: part of, Me too. And so as a mother now, 91 00:04:15,060 --> 00:04:19,170 Speaker 2: I have two children, two teenage children, and we kind 92 00:04:19,210 --> 00:04:21,650 Speaker 2: of encourage them in the same way. How does your 93 00:04:21,730 --> 00:04:24,059 Speaker 2: life now shape the way that you mother your children? 94 00:04:24,490 --> 00:04:24,850 Speaker 3: Yeah. 95 00:04:25,029 --> 00:04:27,610 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. I've encouraged it with my own kids. I 96 00:04:27,630 --> 00:04:30,589 Speaker 1: think they see that my husband works for a company 97 00:04:30,730 --> 00:04:32,729 Speaker 1: and he's not in any of the family businesses or 98 00:04:32,770 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: anything here. And so we do have both here and 99 00:04:34,830 --> 00:04:38,140 Speaker 1: he's totally content and does a great job. I always 100 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: tell my kids, the reason mom gets to go dabble 101 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: and play is because your dad is steadfast, working very 102 00:04:43,940 --> 00:04:47,140 Speaker 1: hard for us. So I want to acknowledge that both 103 00:04:47,220 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 1: paths are great. And I know obviously from being married 104 00:04:50,060 --> 00:04:53,950 Speaker 1: to a person that entrepreneurialism isn't for everyone, nor do 105 00:04:53,970 --> 00:04:57,260 Speaker 1: I think that it's the only way. But with my kids, 106 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: I think I certainly want to raise them with a mentality. 107 00:05:02,420 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: I think this is the heart of what my parents 108 00:05:04,779 --> 00:05:07,260 Speaker 1: did and what I try to do is that their 109 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:09,590 Speaker 1: identity is not in what they do. It is not 110 00:05:09,750 --> 00:05:12,770 Speaker 1: in what they achieve. It's not in their resume, their trophies. 111 00:05:13,250 --> 00:05:15,750 Speaker 1: Their identity is set in Christ and it never changes. 112 00:05:15,810 --> 00:05:16,589 Speaker 3: It's steadfast. 113 00:05:16,770 --> 00:05:20,510 Speaker 1: And so that for me with my kids is a 114 00:05:20,650 --> 00:05:23,150 Speaker 1: key thing that I focus on because I want them 115 00:05:23,190 --> 00:05:26,099 Speaker 1: to get back up when they fail. I want them 116 00:05:26,180 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: to not take someone's unkind comments or whatever they say 117 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: to them as gospel. I'll say to my kids a 118 00:05:33,540 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: lot of times, well, are you going to believe them 119 00:05:35,900 --> 00:05:38,140 Speaker 1: or are you going to believe what God says about you? 120 00:05:38,180 --> 00:05:40,580 Speaker 1: That's your choice right now. And I could say that 121 00:05:40,620 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 1: about my life all the time right now, being a 122 00:05:42,300 --> 00:05:45,060 Speaker 1: person on the internet who produces art and writing and 123 00:05:45,500 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: things like that. Am I going to believe what critics 124 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: say or am I going to believe what God says 125 00:05:49,860 --> 00:05:52,460 Speaker 1: about me? And I think that's the question as Christians 126 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,940 Speaker 1: we're asking over and over and over again. And so 127 00:05:54,980 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: whether you become an entrepreneur or you're working for someone, 128 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,090 Speaker 1: I think that is such an important piece for us 129 00:06:01,150 --> 00:06:04,630 Speaker 1: as Christians that we solidify that identity and know where 130 00:06:04,650 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: to look for it when it starts to get shaken. Yeah, 131 00:06:07,339 --> 00:06:07,700 Speaker 1: me too. 132 00:06:07,850 --> 00:06:10,450 Speaker 2: Earlier, you said the sky is the limit. And so 133 00:06:10,490 --> 00:06:13,420 Speaker 2: your new book is actually called This Side of the Sky. 134 00:06:13,430 --> 00:06:14,890 Speaker 1: I didn't even mean to do that. Yes. 135 00:06:15,150 --> 00:06:16,060 Speaker 3: But it really is. 136 00:06:16,070 --> 00:06:19,060 Speaker 2: The cover is so beautiful. And the title is just evocative. 137 00:06:19,100 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 2: So what does it mean to you? And how does 138 00:06:20,980 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 2: that capture the heart of this collection of poetry? 139 00:06:23,900 --> 00:06:24,729 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. 140 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: It was fun when I worked with my editor on 141 00:06:28,339 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: the title and this was actually a line in a 142 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: poem buried in another poem. And because I'm not great 143 00:06:34,020 --> 00:06:35,940 Speaker 1: at naming books because, you know, it just feels like 144 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,180 Speaker 1: the title has to do so much and it can 145 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:39,900 Speaker 1: feel like high pressures. But she had pulled out this 146 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: phrase and I was like, yes, when I saw it, 147 00:06:42,540 --> 00:06:46,669 Speaker 1: that is it. That is what defines everything in this book. 148 00:06:46,690 --> 00:06:48,610 Speaker 1: So I ended up pulling that out, changing the poem 149 00:06:48,690 --> 00:06:51,790 Speaker 1: and writing a whole new poem based off of this title, 150 00:06:52,050 --> 00:06:55,210 Speaker 1: The Side of the Sky. And really the idea is twofold, 151 00:06:55,350 --> 00:06:57,710 Speaker 1: but it's very much about the duality of life and 152 00:06:57,810 --> 00:07:01,020 Speaker 1: how in some ways it can feel like, hey, we're 153 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:02,580 Speaker 1: on this side of the sky, we're here on earth 154 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:04,260 Speaker 1: and God is on the other side of the sky. 155 00:07:04,500 --> 00:07:06,260 Speaker 1: And I'm just over here doing my thing and he's 156 00:07:06,300 --> 00:07:08,740 Speaker 1: up there doing his thing. But what we wanna do 157 00:07:08,779 --> 00:07:10,700 Speaker 1: as Christians is remember, no, no, no, the Holy Spirit 158 00:07:10,740 --> 00:07:13,170 Speaker 1: is moving and living and active in me. right now 159 00:07:13,270 --> 00:07:15,310 Speaker 1: that God is present in on this side of the 160 00:07:15,350 --> 00:07:17,550 Speaker 1: sky even while Jesus rests at the right hand of 161 00:07:17,590 --> 00:07:20,450 Speaker 1: God in heaven and that is like a piece that 162 00:07:20,620 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: I'm hopeful these poems remind you of is that there 163 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: while we're not with God yet he's still active and 164 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,420 Speaker 1: living and moving in our lives and we have promises 165 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: today but then also someday the sky divide is going 166 00:07:34,740 --> 00:07:37,870 Speaker 1: to collapse and heaven and earth will become one that 167 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:39,830 Speaker 1: this earth will be made new we'll have the new 168 00:07:39,870 --> 00:07:42,350 Speaker 1: heavens and the new earth and there won't be any 169 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,790 Speaker 1: division between us and God. And that that is a 170 00:07:44,830 --> 00:07:46,750 Speaker 1: hope that we also get to cling to right now. 171 00:07:47,170 --> 00:07:49,590 Speaker 1: So this side of the sky is really just designed 172 00:07:49,650 --> 00:07:51,610 Speaker 1: to be a quick way or a fresh take on 173 00:07:51,670 --> 00:07:54,140 Speaker 1: saying the already but not yet that we Christians like. 174 00:07:54,060 --> 00:07:54,660 Speaker 2: To talk about. 175 00:07:54,980 --> 00:07:58,300 Speaker 1: And my hope is that when someone engages with the 176 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: work of this book, that they are reminded of what 177 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: they have right here and right now, and that there 178 00:08:03,180 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: is goodness and there is hope and there is beauty. 179 00:08:05,300 --> 00:08:08,010 Speaker 1: And there are so many wonderful promises of Christ that 180 00:08:08,030 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: we have access to in this moment. but also that 181 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:14,230 Speaker 1: the hope of heaven would be something that carries them 182 00:08:14,470 --> 00:08:16,429 Speaker 1: on the days where maybe they are in their deepest 183 00:08:16,450 --> 00:08:18,590 Speaker 1: pain or suffering. They can't see the promises of Christ 184 00:08:18,630 --> 00:08:21,310 Speaker 1: right now, but that they would remember that heaven is 185 00:08:21,350 --> 00:08:23,110 Speaker 1: there and it's real and it's waiting for them. 186 00:08:24,830 --> 00:08:25,670 Speaker 3: Oh, that's beautiful. 187 00:08:25,710 --> 00:08:27,950 Speaker 2: And I can't wait to continue today's conversation, but we're 188 00:08:27,970 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 2: going to take a brief break to thank our sponsor. 189 00:08:30,270 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 2: And when we come back, we'll talk about making room 190 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,860 Speaker 2: for honesty, sorrow, and hope in our life with God. 191 00:08:37,420 --> 00:08:37,970 Speaker 3: Welcome back. 192 00:08:38,090 --> 00:08:41,410 Speaker 2: I'm talking with Laura Whiffler about her poetry collection, This 193 00:08:41,590 --> 00:08:44,710 Speaker 2: Side of the Sky. So what has poetry meant to 194 00:08:44,750 --> 00:08:47,250 Speaker 2: you personally? And when did you first begin using it 195 00:08:47,309 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 2: to express things you found difficult to put into ordinary words? 196 00:08:51,420 --> 00:08:55,060 Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely did not grow up enjoying poetry or 197 00:08:55,140 --> 00:08:58,819 Speaker 1: reading poetry. I studied journalism and English in college. And 198 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: even then, I wasn't necessarily someone who would say, oh, 199 00:09:01,620 --> 00:09:04,540 Speaker 1: I really enjoy poetry. But it was about five, six, 200 00:09:04,620 --> 00:09:07,579 Speaker 1: seven years ago that I actually did a homeschool unit 201 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:11,179 Speaker 1: with my kids. And it was on poetry. They were 202 00:09:11,260 --> 00:09:15,330 Speaker 1: in kindergarten and second grade at the time. Yeah, kindergarten 203 00:09:15,350 --> 00:09:17,150 Speaker 1: and second. And I had to lead them through this. 204 00:09:17,410 --> 00:09:20,830 Speaker 1: And it had a lot of just fun poems, interesting poems, 205 00:09:21,010 --> 00:09:23,130 Speaker 1: poems I'd just never seen before. And then we also 206 00:09:23,170 --> 00:09:25,199 Speaker 1: had to study the craft of poetry. So how do 207 00:09:25,220 --> 00:09:27,319 Speaker 1: you put together a good poem? And then after that, 208 00:09:27,380 --> 00:09:29,020 Speaker 1: it was like, and here's how to break all the rules. 209 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: And I just remember being like, this is so fun. 210 00:09:32,540 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: You know, it was, I never really understood the rules, 211 00:09:35,900 --> 00:09:38,580 Speaker 1: but then I definitely didn't know, oh, you can also 212 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:40,660 Speaker 1: break them. That's one of the fun parts about poetry 213 00:09:40,740 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: is you can do whatever you want. And so when 214 00:09:44,250 --> 00:09:45,930 Speaker 1: that sort of started and I was kind of writing 215 00:09:45,970 --> 00:09:48,900 Speaker 1: at home, I had been someone who I've been sharing 216 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:52,300 Speaker 1: my work online for about 20 years now, which is 217 00:09:52,340 --> 00:09:55,350 Speaker 1: wild to say, I just, I shared it not really 218 00:09:55,390 --> 00:09:57,370 Speaker 1: thinking a lot because I'm pretty used to just putting 219 00:09:57,410 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: my work out there and my community really resonates. but 220 00:10:00,540 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: I was not using the word poetry. I was like, oh, 221 00:10:02,179 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: these are melodic microblogs. 222 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:05,620 Speaker 3: This is lyrical. It's emotional. 223 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: You know, I'm framing it in all these different ways, 224 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: having no idea that actually this is poetry. And eventually 225 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:13,420 Speaker 1: my audience started saying, I shared your poem with a 226 00:10:13,460 --> 00:10:15,090 Speaker 1: friend or thanks for this poem. And I was like, 227 00:10:15,110 --> 00:10:15,850 Speaker 1: what poem? 228 00:10:16,250 --> 00:10:16,470 Speaker 3: Right? 229 00:10:16,490 --> 00:10:18,420 Speaker 1: Like this is I'm just taking a few things that 230 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: I learned in a unit about word choice and rhythm 231 00:10:21,700 --> 00:10:24,380 Speaker 1: and things like that. But the term started stacking up 232 00:10:24,450 --> 00:10:26,969 Speaker 1: so much that I realized, oh, I think that this 233 00:10:27,010 --> 00:10:29,550 Speaker 1: might be actually what I am. And so it still 234 00:10:29,570 --> 00:10:32,059 Speaker 1: feels a little uncomfortable of a title because I think 235 00:10:32,420 --> 00:10:35,309 Speaker 1: my hope is that my poetry feels a little bit 236 00:10:35,429 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: more easy to read and understand and kind of straightforward 237 00:10:39,820 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: rather than maybe what some people have stereotypically thought of 238 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,860 Speaker 1: with poetry for better or worse, right? Because it's a 239 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:49,020 Speaker 1: wonderful genre, but I had an assumption that poetry had 240 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:50,979 Speaker 1: to be very hard to understand and it had to 241 00:10:51,020 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: be very cerebral. And my poetry, at least you'll find, 242 00:10:55,540 --> 00:10:56,420 Speaker 1: is not that. 243 00:10:56,580 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 3: So It's accessible for all of us. It's accessible. 244 00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:00,580 Speaker 1: That's the good word. 245 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:01,319 Speaker 3: Yes, yes. 246 00:11:01,500 --> 00:11:04,309 Speaker 2: Well, and I think that too, your poems are specific 247 00:11:04,370 --> 00:11:07,650 Speaker 2: to your experiences. Yeah, they do feel widely relatable. So 248 00:11:07,690 --> 00:11:10,270 Speaker 2: how does telling the truth about your own particular life 249 00:11:10,610 --> 00:11:12,670 Speaker 2: help others feel so seen in theirs, do you think? 250 00:11:13,370 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've always been someone who is pretty quick to 251 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,380 Speaker 1: just share how I feel or not. I don't know. 252 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: I don't have a lot to hide. And it's not 253 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,350 Speaker 1: something that I know, you know, I'm sitting here thinking like, 254 00:11:25,510 --> 00:11:27,790 Speaker 1: I don't understand how it's not hard for other people 255 00:11:27,850 --> 00:11:30,150 Speaker 1: to tell other people things because I just, the way 256 00:11:30,210 --> 00:11:32,030 Speaker 1: the Lord built me, I think is that I'm pretty 257 00:11:32,150 --> 00:11:36,230 Speaker 1: open about a lot of things. And that piece has been, 258 00:11:36,250 --> 00:11:39,250 Speaker 1: I think a way that I've always made friends fairly 259 00:11:39,370 --> 00:11:42,590 Speaker 1: easily is that I'm just, I'm willing to share and identify. 260 00:11:42,650 --> 00:11:45,290 Speaker 1: And what I've learned among my friends is that if 261 00:11:45,390 --> 00:11:47,310 Speaker 1: I'm the first person to take off the mask, I'm 262 00:11:47,330 --> 00:11:51,189 Speaker 1: the first person to admit it, just everybody, everybody in 263 00:11:51,230 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 1: that room is like, oh, me too, me too, me too. 264 00:11:53,780 --> 00:11:55,990 Speaker 1: And in whatever version or way that they can, they 265 00:11:56,030 --> 00:11:58,550 Speaker 1: relate to that. But it really takes someone going first. 266 00:11:58,790 --> 00:12:01,949 Speaker 1: And so that piece for me, I like to think 267 00:12:02,050 --> 00:12:05,569 Speaker 1: of how I write, maybe not as vulnerable, although I 268 00:12:05,570 --> 00:12:07,370 Speaker 1: think a lot of people see it as very vulnerable, 269 00:12:08,150 --> 00:12:10,939 Speaker 1: but as very transparent. I'm just honest about the realities. 270 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 1: And there, of course, are sin issues or sorrows and 271 00:12:14,660 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: sufferings that have not made it into the book and 272 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,860 Speaker 1: will never be acknowledged in my poetry because they're not 273 00:12:19,900 --> 00:12:22,190 Speaker 1: my stories to tell or They're just not for the 274 00:12:22,650 --> 00:12:26,790 Speaker 1: internet's consumption or the public's consumption. But in general, where 275 00:12:26,830 --> 00:12:28,510 Speaker 1: I can share, I want to be honest because I 276 00:12:28,570 --> 00:12:30,750 Speaker 1: think what I have found with people is that they, 277 00:12:30,770 --> 00:12:32,229 Speaker 1: you know, I have a daughter with disabilities and it 278 00:12:33,010 --> 00:12:34,790 Speaker 1: comes out in the book a lot. They may not 279 00:12:35,250 --> 00:12:38,970 Speaker 1: even know someone with disabilities very well, but there is 280 00:12:39,290 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: something that's giving them grief in their life. There is 281 00:12:41,390 --> 00:12:44,170 Speaker 1: something that is hard. There is something that they're working 282 00:12:44,220 --> 00:12:48,410 Speaker 1: through and there is a common thread theme to that 283 00:12:48,429 --> 00:12:50,930 Speaker 1: there's a tenor that is the same as what maybe 284 00:12:51,050 --> 00:12:53,850 Speaker 1: I'm dealing with this disability they're dealing with in their 285 00:12:53,929 --> 00:12:56,410 Speaker 1: own ways in their own griefs and so my hope 286 00:12:56,450 --> 00:13:00,250 Speaker 1: with sharing these things are not that you would really 287 00:13:00,270 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: necessarily maybe you know really learn about my griefs but 288 00:13:04,420 --> 00:13:06,740 Speaker 1: that you would see the hope of heaven that I'm 289 00:13:06,780 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: clinging to in the midst of mine and perhaps you 290 00:13:08,940 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: would hold on to it too So let's. 291 00:13:11,380 --> 00:13:14,370 Speaker 2: Talk more about the issues, this side of heaven. So 292 00:13:14,490 --> 00:13:17,870 Speaker 2: you write about living in a fallen body and growing older. 293 00:13:18,050 --> 00:13:20,530 Speaker 2: So what emotions have surfaced for you in that process? 294 00:13:20,570 --> 00:13:22,510 Speaker 2: And how has your faith shaped the way you view 295 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 2: your changing body? And I'm right there with you. 296 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:25,620 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. 297 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,340 Speaker 1: No, it's funny. We're recording this. And in about actually 298 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,410 Speaker 1: exactly one week, I turned 40. So I'm staring down. 299 00:13:32,050 --> 00:13:35,490 Speaker 1: what is supposed to be a monumental transition in one week. 300 00:13:35,710 --> 00:13:38,010 Speaker 1: And honestly, I feel pretty chill about it, but I'm like, oh, 301 00:13:38,030 --> 00:13:40,430 Speaker 1: I'm supposed to be angsty and I'm supposed to really 302 00:13:40,490 --> 00:13:42,990 Speaker 1: be reflective and all these things. And so that's good. 303 00:13:43,030 --> 00:13:45,870 Speaker 1: I think it's always wonderful to be reflective about our 304 00:13:45,910 --> 00:13:47,870 Speaker 1: lives at some level and to think about that. But 305 00:13:48,370 --> 00:13:50,510 Speaker 1: you're right. In the book, I talk a lot about 306 00:13:50,610 --> 00:13:53,460 Speaker 1: aging and I talk a lot about body image and 307 00:13:53,790 --> 00:13:56,439 Speaker 1: just changes that we experience as women. In fact, I 308 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,849 Speaker 1: think that the The line is there's the book is 309 00:13:59,870 --> 00:14:01,929 Speaker 1: divided in sections and it says a moment to address 310 00:14:01,970 --> 00:14:04,010 Speaker 1: the body in the room. And when I try to 311 00:14:04,150 --> 00:14:06,309 Speaker 1: explain all of the sections, that one just says, if 312 00:14:06,350 --> 00:14:08,660 Speaker 1: you're a woman, this doesn't need an explanation. You know, 313 00:14:08,740 --> 00:14:11,140 Speaker 1: so I think we all get this. We all resonate, 314 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:15,500 Speaker 1: whether you're 22 or you're 72. Women are always dealing 315 00:14:15,540 --> 00:14:17,850 Speaker 1: with our bodies. And there's so much to say on 316 00:14:17,870 --> 00:14:19,750 Speaker 1: this topic, but I think the thing that I feel 317 00:14:19,790 --> 00:14:23,210 Speaker 1: most stalwart in or most firm in about my views 318 00:14:23,270 --> 00:14:25,710 Speaker 1: on this is that aging and getting older is such 319 00:14:25,750 --> 00:14:28,690 Speaker 1: a privilege. And every day that I get older, I 320 00:14:29,190 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: get to look a little more like Christ. And there 321 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:34,900 Speaker 1: is something about when I think about the women that 322 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,180 Speaker 1: I admire and the women that I want to be 323 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: like someday, I'm not thinking, well, I really want my 324 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:43,020 Speaker 1: nose to look like her nose. It's, I want my 325 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:44,020 Speaker 1: heart to look like her heart. 326 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 3: Right? 327 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: I want my hands to serve the way that her 328 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: hands serve. And so that has been a continual piece 329 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,340 Speaker 1: for me as I think about, okay, I'm getting older. 330 00:14:52,860 --> 00:14:54,739 Speaker 1: What am I modeling and what am I showing to 331 00:14:54,780 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: these women? And I love clothes and fashion and makeup 332 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: as much as the next woman, and there's nothing wrong 333 00:15:00,460 --> 00:15:02,860 Speaker 1: with that. But a lot of times as we get older, 334 00:15:02,900 --> 00:15:06,060 Speaker 1: the focus tends to be on our physical appearance and 335 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:10,260 Speaker 1: lamenting the loss of youth. But I think it is 336 00:15:10,300 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: a great privilege to show our age. And in fact, 337 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,380 Speaker 1: In the Psalms, it talks about gray hair being a 338 00:15:16,420 --> 00:15:19,540 Speaker 1: crown of glory and it's ages honored in the Bible. 339 00:15:19,580 --> 00:15:21,820 Speaker 1: And it's such a rare gift to get to have 340 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,580 Speaker 1: on this side of the fall. And so I think 341 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,380 Speaker 1: that that is just something for women. I hope we 342 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: can all become a little more confident in and a 343 00:15:30,460 --> 00:15:33,740 Speaker 1: little more seeing aging and the physical changes that we 344 00:15:33,780 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: experience as a privilege rather than a curse. And then recognize, too, 345 00:15:38,540 --> 00:15:39,990 Speaker 1: the hope of heaven where someday we're going to be 346 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:41,890 Speaker 1: in these new bodies. And I struggle with a lot 347 00:15:41,910 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: of chronic pain. a lot of unexplained pain for various reasons. Well, 348 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,110 Speaker 1: I don't know what the reasons are, but various areas 349 00:15:48,150 --> 00:15:49,510 Speaker 1: of my body is what I was trying to say. 350 00:15:49,550 --> 00:15:52,570 Speaker 1: And just reconciling that as well. Okay, I have a 351 00:15:52,590 --> 00:15:57,150 Speaker 1: very broken body and God is allowing this. And knowing 352 00:15:57,190 --> 00:15:59,910 Speaker 1: that that's doing a work in me and it's changing me. 353 00:16:00,530 --> 00:16:02,940 Speaker 1: And then also holding that hope of heaven that, you know, 354 00:16:03,060 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: I'm not going to be in this body forever. And 355 00:16:04,820 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: I don't have to, I don't have to do it 356 00:16:08,580 --> 00:16:11,260 Speaker 1: all here. I don't have to be everything here on earth. 357 00:16:12,460 --> 00:16:15,660 Speaker 1: Because I get to live twice, right? We live eternally 358 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:17,620 Speaker 1: and we have a new body and we have a 359 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: whole new life that we get to experience. And so 360 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,780 Speaker 1: I cling to that hope. While I live with grief 361 00:16:22,860 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: and sorrow and pain here, I still can have joy 362 00:16:26,100 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: and happiness and optimism because of what I know is 363 00:16:29,860 --> 00:16:31,460 Speaker 1: coming for me and the promises that I have in 364 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: Christ today. 365 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know exactly where it is, but the 366 00:16:34,780 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 3: scripture that says, even. 367 00:16:35,900 --> 00:16:38,859 Speaker 2: Though our bodies are wasting away, our inner spirit is 368 00:16:38,900 --> 00:16:40,020 Speaker 2: being renewed day by day. 369 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:44,340 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's Paul. Yeah, it's so true. And that's 370 00:16:44,380 --> 00:16:46,690 Speaker 1: when I think about myself when I was in my 20s, 371 00:16:46,860 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: and I've been a Christian my whole life since I 372 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:53,210 Speaker 1: was five years old, raised in a Christian home, really 373 00:16:53,250 --> 00:16:56,140 Speaker 1: never knew a day without Jesus. But I knew nothing 374 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: about him. I knew nothing at 25. And I have 375 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 1: a feeling when I'm 75, Lord willing, I make it 376 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: that far. I'm going to say when I was 40, 377 00:17:03,500 --> 00:17:04,020 Speaker 1: I knew nothing. 378 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 3: I knew nothing at all. 379 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:09,020 Speaker 1: And so what a gift to every year get closer 380 00:17:09,060 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: to Jesus and to know him more and to discover 381 00:17:11,740 --> 00:17:14,540 Speaker 1: there is no end to the new knowledge and the 382 00:17:14,580 --> 00:17:16,300 Speaker 1: new love and the new joy that you can find 383 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,869 Speaker 1: in Christ. Like I want to get older because I 384 00:17:18,900 --> 00:17:20,890 Speaker 1: get to know Christ more. It's what Paul even says 385 00:17:21,050 --> 00:17:23,010 Speaker 1: of just like for me to live is Christ and 386 00:17:23,050 --> 00:17:25,270 Speaker 1: to die is gain. you know, and I want to 387 00:17:25,290 --> 00:17:28,570 Speaker 1: be with my Lord. I long to be with God 388 00:17:28,890 --> 00:17:32,530 Speaker 1: in heaven, with Christ. But I also know that right now, 389 00:17:32,930 --> 00:17:35,409 Speaker 1: every day that I go on, I have more of Christ. 390 00:17:35,570 --> 00:17:37,170 Speaker 1: And that is, that's a good thing. 391 00:17:38,369 --> 00:17:41,750 Speaker 2: Yes, it is. Well, you described life as both heavy 392 00:17:41,990 --> 00:17:44,889 Speaker 2: and holy. How have you learned to notice God's presence 393 00:17:44,970 --> 00:17:48,100 Speaker 2: in sacred work and circumstances that still feel painful and 394 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:49,060 Speaker 2: maybe unresolved? 395 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,700 Speaker 1: Yeah, I am more convinced than ever that there are 396 00:17:54,050 --> 00:17:56,070 Speaker 1: is a reason for everything and that God has a 397 00:17:56,109 --> 00:17:59,090 Speaker 1: hand in everything. And I know that's what we know 398 00:17:59,109 --> 00:18:01,810 Speaker 1: to be true as believers. But I think when you've 399 00:18:01,910 --> 00:18:03,930 Speaker 1: lived long enough, you start to be able to look 400 00:18:03,970 --> 00:18:07,850 Speaker 1: back and see his fingerprints and see how maybe you 401 00:18:07,890 --> 00:18:11,209 Speaker 1: still don't totally understand why, but you know he was 402 00:18:11,270 --> 00:18:12,690 Speaker 1: with you and that he saw you through to the 403 00:18:12,730 --> 00:18:14,820 Speaker 1: other side. I think that that for me has just 404 00:18:14,890 --> 00:18:17,530 Speaker 1: been a lifeline. And I was just chatting with a 405 00:18:17,540 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: friend the other day of this weird thing we do 406 00:18:20,900 --> 00:18:23,420 Speaker 1: as humans, which is to say, hey, all this stuff 407 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,439 Speaker 1: that I learned in the light, all these truths that 408 00:18:25,510 --> 00:18:28,270 Speaker 1: I agreed on in the light, the first sign of darkness, 409 00:18:28,430 --> 00:18:31,290 Speaker 1: I'm dropping it. The first sign of darkness, I'm walking away. 410 00:18:31,530 --> 00:18:34,690 Speaker 1: And it's a normal thing as humans, but it's something 411 00:18:34,710 --> 00:18:36,880 Speaker 1: we have to fight. And my dad would always say, 412 00:18:36,910 --> 00:18:39,700 Speaker 1: this is an entrepreneurial quote, never quit on a bad day. 413 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:41,860 Speaker 1: And that you might be having a bad day, everything 414 00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:43,340 Speaker 1: might be going wrong, but that is not the day 415 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 1: to throw in the towel. And the same is with 416 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,690 Speaker 1: our Christian faith, is that there will be days that 417 00:18:47,970 --> 00:18:51,120 Speaker 1: are really bad. There actually will be probably years that 418 00:18:51,220 --> 00:18:53,020 Speaker 1: are hard and bad, and you don't know what the 419 00:18:53,060 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 1: Lord is doing. And that promise of, oh, just trust 420 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,300 Speaker 1: in Jesus. He's always with you. It's going to feel 421 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,590 Speaker 1: real false. It's going to feel real empty. But you 422 00:19:01,609 --> 00:19:03,350 Speaker 1: don't want to quit on those days. And so those 423 00:19:03,369 --> 00:19:05,310 Speaker 1: are the days where you go to your friends and 424 00:19:05,330 --> 00:19:06,850 Speaker 1: you go to your Christian community and you say, will 425 00:19:06,869 --> 00:19:09,649 Speaker 1: you hold that hope for me? Because I don't have 426 00:19:09,670 --> 00:19:10,850 Speaker 1: it anymore. I don't know how to get it. I 427 00:19:10,890 --> 00:19:14,679 Speaker 1: know when my daughter was diagnosed with disabilities, she was 428 00:19:14,700 --> 00:19:17,650 Speaker 1: two months old and my husband had broken his leg 429 00:19:17,690 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: really severely. He had surgery. He was in a wheelchair. 430 00:19:20,820 --> 00:19:23,980 Speaker 1: This all happened within two weeks. We ended up experiencing 431 00:19:24,300 --> 00:19:28,379 Speaker 1: three funerals of people we loved within the next couple months. 432 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,750 Speaker 1: We moved. I can't even go back and remember it all. 433 00:19:32,780 --> 00:19:35,980 Speaker 1: I remember it being horrific. We were alone in Chicago, 434 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:39,540 Speaker 1: no family around. Very, very hard season of my life. 435 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: And I remember just being like, someone's got to hold 436 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,570 Speaker 1: this hope because I can't. I can't do this anymore. 437 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,020 Speaker 1: And I can't be false about, oh, God's got a plan. 438 00:19:48,700 --> 00:19:51,780 Speaker 1: I do not see it right now. Now, me looking back, 439 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: that was what, nine years ago? My daughter just had 440 00:19:54,060 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: her ninth birthday. Oh, I see his fingerprints. But I 441 00:19:57,619 --> 00:20:01,419 Speaker 1: think that it's too heavy of an expectation on yourself 442 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:03,140 Speaker 1: to say, I need to see it in every single 443 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 1: moment in order to be a good Christian. God doesn't 444 00:20:06,770 --> 00:20:09,140 Speaker 1: ask that of us. And so... Those are the times 445 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,300 Speaker 1: where you go to your friends and you ask them 446 00:20:11,340 --> 00:20:12,740 Speaker 1: to hold the hope for you, to pray for you, 447 00:20:12,900 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: to trust where you can't. And then someday you're going 448 00:20:15,510 --> 00:20:17,209 Speaker 1: to return the favor for them. And that is like 449 00:20:17,250 --> 00:20:20,630 Speaker 1: the beauty of being in Christian community. So hang in there. 450 00:20:21,290 --> 00:20:23,510 Speaker 1: Don't give up what you learned in the light when 451 00:20:23,530 --> 00:20:25,629 Speaker 1: you walk through darkness and keep going and you'll get 452 00:20:25,670 --> 00:20:28,870 Speaker 1: to the other side. And, you know, God really does 453 00:20:28,930 --> 00:20:31,770 Speaker 1: have a plan, even if those words feel trite right now. 454 00:20:32,670 --> 00:20:34,010 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so good, Laura. 455 00:20:34,590 --> 00:20:36,729 Speaker 2: Well, I can't wait to continue today's conversation, but we're 456 00:20:36,750 --> 00:20:39,229 Speaker 2: going to take another break to hear a word from 457 00:20:39,250 --> 00:20:40,950 Speaker 2: our sponsor. And when we come back, we'll talk about 458 00:20:40,990 --> 00:20:44,290 Speaker 2: recognizing God's nearness in ordinary life and allowing the hope 459 00:20:44,330 --> 00:20:46,389 Speaker 2: of heaven to shape how we live today. 460 00:20:49,290 --> 00:20:49,890 Speaker 3: Welcome back. 461 00:20:49,990 --> 00:20:53,649 Speaker 2: I'm talking with Laura Whiffler about this side of heaven. 462 00:20:53,790 --> 00:20:55,969 Speaker 2: You remind readers that heaven is real and that its 463 00:20:56,109 --> 00:20:59,230 Speaker 2: hope matters now. So how does the promise of eternity 464 00:20:59,330 --> 00:21:02,820 Speaker 2: change the way we face grief, suffering, aging, like we 465 00:21:02,859 --> 00:21:04,620 Speaker 2: talked about, and disappointment today. 466 00:21:05,500 --> 00:21:09,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. I think that for a lot of people, 467 00:21:10,220 --> 00:21:13,540 Speaker 1: remembering that heaven is real is hard to do, right? 468 00:21:13,580 --> 00:21:15,659 Speaker 1: We live in the present here and now, or some 469 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,439 Speaker 1: people are even built like they live in the past, right? 470 00:21:17,460 --> 00:21:19,310 Speaker 1: We all have our proclivities of where we live at. 471 00:21:19,550 --> 00:21:22,590 Speaker 1: I would say I'm a natural optimist. I joke with 472 00:21:22,609 --> 00:21:27,369 Speaker 1: my we can improve as a couple towards our future 473 00:21:27,390 --> 00:21:30,230 Speaker 1: glory selves, I'm like, honey, I'm just an optimist, right? 474 00:21:30,250 --> 00:21:32,730 Speaker 1: I'm an optimist about you, babe. And I'm an optimist 475 00:21:32,770 --> 00:21:35,150 Speaker 1: about me and who we could be. And he's like, oh, yeah, 476 00:21:35,170 --> 00:21:37,890 Speaker 1: you know, but there's at some level, it's true that 477 00:21:38,010 --> 00:21:40,730 Speaker 1: as Christians, we have the opportunity and the immense privilege 478 00:21:40,810 --> 00:21:44,530 Speaker 1: to be optimist about life and to always see the 479 00:21:44,590 --> 00:21:47,310 Speaker 1: bright side, always see the good. And one of those 480 00:21:47,390 --> 00:21:51,130 Speaker 1: things is that this life is very short, but heaven 481 00:21:51,190 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 1: is real and it's coming. And so I remember one 482 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,500 Speaker 1: time my pastor, our church, you know, sometimes churches, at 483 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: least ours had like a backdrop and then there was 484 00:22:00,260 --> 00:22:03,060 Speaker 1: like up lighting on it on this backdrop that was 485 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,139 Speaker 1: kind of wouldn't kind of receive the light. And he's like, 486 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,159 Speaker 1: if this thing is eternity, he takes a pen and 487 00:22:09,180 --> 00:22:11,980 Speaker 1: a permit marker and does a decent size dot on there. 488 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 1: And he's like, can you guys see that? None of 489 00:22:14,270 --> 00:22:16,460 Speaker 1: us could see it. He was like, that's what this 490 00:22:16,550 --> 00:22:19,450 Speaker 1: is right now. The rest of this is eternity. That 491 00:22:19,530 --> 00:22:21,189 Speaker 1: is what this is right now. And I think when 492 00:22:21,210 --> 00:22:24,490 Speaker 1: we start to get that perspective of how fleeting this 493 00:22:24,550 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: life is, how long with the preacher in Ecclesiastes we 494 00:22:28,300 --> 00:22:32,220 Speaker 1: can talk about how everything is just in the wind, right? 495 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,199 Speaker 1: It's all vanity. It starts to put a perspective on 496 00:22:35,260 --> 00:22:37,540 Speaker 1: how much we really carry in this life, what we 497 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: expect out of it, what we think we deserve in it, 498 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: and yeah, how we think we're going to spend our days. 499 00:22:43,300 --> 00:22:45,179 Speaker 1: And so that's been something that I talk to my 500 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,850 Speaker 1: kids a lot about. No one can give you anything 501 00:22:47,869 --> 00:22:50,229 Speaker 1: you need and no one can take away anything that 502 00:22:50,290 --> 00:22:52,540 Speaker 1: you need because you have it all in Christ. And 503 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,580 Speaker 1: when you start to live with that mentality of knowing like, hey, yeah, 504 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: there's nothing this world can offer me that's better than 505 00:22:58,340 --> 00:23:00,780 Speaker 1: what I already have in Jesus, nothing I can take away, 506 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,109 Speaker 1: then there's a lot of freedom that you start to 507 00:23:04,140 --> 00:23:05,850 Speaker 1: walk around with. You start to walk around with a 508 00:23:05,869 --> 00:23:09,070 Speaker 1: lot of confidence knowing you already got it all. And so, man, 509 00:23:09,090 --> 00:23:11,850 Speaker 1: if I mess up, That's okay. I got what I 510 00:23:11,869 --> 00:23:15,130 Speaker 1: need in Christ, right? There is forgiveness. There is redemption. 511 00:23:15,330 --> 00:23:18,490 Speaker 1: There is fresh starts, new mercies in Christ. And then 512 00:23:18,790 --> 00:23:22,230 Speaker 1: if you don't achieve what you wanted to achieve, or 513 00:23:22,290 --> 00:23:24,090 Speaker 1: you don't get the promotion you thought you were getting 514 00:23:24,109 --> 00:23:26,910 Speaker 1: to get, or your child gets disabilities, or your parent 515 00:23:26,950 --> 00:23:30,190 Speaker 1: gets sick, whatever it is, there's real grief with that. 516 00:23:30,230 --> 00:23:33,830 Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong. We don't fake that there's not 517 00:23:33,890 --> 00:23:37,150 Speaker 1: real pain and hardship. We get to acknowledge those things, 518 00:23:37,369 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: but then know I have everything I need in Christ. 519 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: that he will sustain me, that I have what I 520 00:23:41,859 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 1: need now and I have what I need forever. And 521 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,780 Speaker 1: I think for me, I'm like, okay, Lord, let's just 522 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,100 Speaker 1: say you give me 80 years on this life. That'd 523 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:51,700 Speaker 1: be great, I guess. I kind of would like to 524 00:23:51,740 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 1: die around 80, not much older, you know, like quality 525 00:23:54,700 --> 00:23:56,820 Speaker 1: of life type vibes. You know, let's just say we 526 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: get 80 years. I'm like, I want to spend every 527 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,780 Speaker 1: penny of it that I can here for you. Every 528 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 1: single bit of my body, I want to give, give, give, give. 529 00:24:07,140 --> 00:24:09,110 Speaker 1: Because I know that when I get to the end, 530 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,220 Speaker 1: I want to be able to say to God at 531 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,460 Speaker 1: the gates of heaven, I spent it all, and I 532 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 1: want to hear, well done, good and faithful servant. That's 533 00:24:19,090 --> 00:24:21,710 Speaker 1: all of our goal. And so I think that that 534 00:24:21,790 --> 00:24:26,710 Speaker 1: should motivate us as Christians to give away our lives 535 00:24:26,810 --> 00:24:29,850 Speaker 1: like we're called to do in the Gospels, to just 536 00:24:30,150 --> 00:24:32,650 Speaker 1: lay down our lives like Christ did over and over 537 00:24:32,670 --> 00:24:36,050 Speaker 1: and over again. And it really changes how you spend 538 00:24:36,070 --> 00:24:38,409 Speaker 1: your time. It changes what you watch on TV. It 539 00:24:38,450 --> 00:24:42,420 Speaker 1: changes what you talk about. It changes what you listen to, right? Everything, 540 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: when that is your orbit, should change because you realize 541 00:24:47,900 --> 00:24:50,300 Speaker 1: how fleeting this life is, but also that this is 542 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,570 Speaker 1: your moment. This is your moment to give away everything 543 00:24:52,609 --> 00:24:54,930 Speaker 1: and to give it all for Jesus. And it's actually 544 00:24:55,150 --> 00:24:55,830 Speaker 1: not really that long. 545 00:24:57,270 --> 00:24:58,250 Speaker 3: Oh, it all matters. 546 00:24:58,350 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 2: Everything we do, this side of the sky matters. It 547 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,740 Speaker 2: matters for all of eternity. So good and so inspiring 548 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 2: to just make our days and our moments count. So 549 00:25:08,100 --> 00:25:11,640 Speaker 2: for the woman listening who feels overwhelmed by everyday life, 550 00:25:11,700 --> 00:25:14,070 Speaker 2: what truth do you hope that she carries with her 551 00:25:14,290 --> 00:25:17,310 Speaker 2: after today's episode and after reading This Side of the Sky? 552 00:25:19,970 --> 00:25:22,930 Speaker 1: So many things, but I think I hope she feels 553 00:25:22,970 --> 00:25:26,250 Speaker 1: seen and like she's not alone. And that there is 554 00:25:26,290 --> 00:25:29,990 Speaker 1: no new emotion, there is no new frustration or sadness 555 00:25:30,050 --> 00:25:34,060 Speaker 1: or grief, that she's the only one experiencing. Those are 556 00:25:34,380 --> 00:25:38,780 Speaker 1: universal feelings and they come for a wide variety of reasons, 557 00:25:38,900 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: but there's really not a lot different when you dig 558 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,740 Speaker 1: into them. And so I hope that she feels seen 559 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,250 Speaker 1: and not alone. But then after that, I hope that 560 00:25:47,330 --> 00:25:52,250 Speaker 1: she feels motivated and ready to go, ready to fight again. 561 00:25:52,630 --> 00:25:55,950 Speaker 1: Maybe she's lost that fight in her of, wanting to 562 00:25:56,150 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: live for Jesus, wanting to give her all, wanting to, 563 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: maybe it's reading her Bible or praying or talking to God. 564 00:26:01,060 --> 00:26:04,939 Speaker 1: And so I hope that heaven and God and his 565 00:26:04,980 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 1: promises feel just really real to her and accessible. And yeah, 566 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,940 Speaker 1: that she can do a fresh start. We just talked 567 00:26:10,980 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: about new mercies and redemption and forgiveness. And lately I 568 00:26:15,900 --> 00:26:17,700 Speaker 1: feel like the Lord's been hammering over my head a 569 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: very elementary truth about Christendom and about following Jesus, which 570 00:26:21,660 --> 00:26:24,429 Speaker 1: is God loves you and he's worth following. So follow him. 571 00:26:24,490 --> 00:26:27,450 Speaker 1: He is worth it. He is worth everything that you 572 00:26:27,470 --> 00:26:30,010 Speaker 1: have to give. And so I hope that when they 573 00:26:30,050 --> 00:26:32,610 Speaker 1: close the pages of that book, that it just feels like, yeah, 574 00:26:32,730 --> 00:26:34,230 Speaker 1: Jesus is worth it and I'm going to follow him. 575 00:26:35,619 --> 00:26:36,340 Speaker 3: He is worth it. 576 00:26:36,420 --> 00:26:39,899 Speaker 2: And I feel seen and motivated by today's conversation for sure. 577 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,860 Speaker 2: So on this podcast, we always come back to love. 578 00:26:42,980 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 2: So is there a biblical concept of love that you 579 00:26:45,060 --> 00:26:46,820 Speaker 2: think applies to this topic today? 580 00:26:47,660 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 1: I keep thinking about God's great love for us to 581 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: send his only son to die for us. And what 582 00:26:52,820 --> 00:26:56,070 Speaker 1: was most precious to God was his son. He gave 583 00:26:56,109 --> 00:26:59,030 Speaker 1: up his most precious thing. And I think when we 584 00:26:59,070 --> 00:27:00,910 Speaker 1: look at our own lives, you know, there's a lot 585 00:27:00,950 --> 00:27:03,850 Speaker 1: of precious things to us. And we think about all 586 00:27:03,869 --> 00:27:06,300 Speaker 1: the things we don't want Jesus to take from us 587 00:27:06,380 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: to ask us to give up. But perhaps the one 588 00:27:09,700 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: thing that we clutch most tightly is our own lives. 589 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,909 Speaker 1: And I think how can we do any less than 590 00:27:15,930 --> 00:27:17,899 Speaker 1: what our Savior did for us. That if God the 591 00:27:17,940 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: Father was willing to give up His only begotten Son, 592 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,300 Speaker 1: that Jesus Himself gave up His one life for us. 593 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,860 Speaker 1: How can we not do the same? And so that 594 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 1: is the greatest love of all. And that's what should 595 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: motivate and propel us as we go about our days 596 00:27:31,940 --> 00:27:34,379 Speaker 1: is saying, I love God. I love Jesus. I love 597 00:27:34,420 --> 00:27:36,930 Speaker 1: Him more than my own life. So in what ways 598 00:27:36,970 --> 00:27:38,970 Speaker 1: can I give that up today? And in what ways 599 00:27:39,010 --> 00:27:41,590 Speaker 1: can I sacrifice and represent that love to others? 600 00:27:42,410 --> 00:27:44,730 Speaker 2: So tell us something you are living right now. 601 00:27:45,609 --> 00:27:46,169 Speaker 3: Absolutely. 602 00:27:46,230 --> 00:27:51,230 Speaker 1: Yeah, something I'm loving right now. Okay, we just got 603 00:27:51,290 --> 00:27:54,110 Speaker 1: two baby kittens. I mentioned that in the beginning. And 604 00:27:54,130 --> 00:27:56,830 Speaker 1: I am not a cat person. I'm a dog person 605 00:27:56,970 --> 00:28:00,040 Speaker 1: through and through, especially if you read the book. I 606 00:28:00,190 --> 00:28:01,859 Speaker 1: don't talk about cats because we don't have cats, but 607 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:03,980 Speaker 1: I talk about my dog a lot. But we got 608 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,400 Speaker 1: two baby kitties, little farm rescues, and I can't believe 609 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,250 Speaker 1: how I have become a cat lady immediately. So that 610 00:28:11,310 --> 00:28:13,730 Speaker 1: is what I'm loving so much is just, and honestly, 611 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,740 Speaker 1: I think about God's kindness to me and animals. And 612 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:18,500 Speaker 1: I'm an animal lover. 613 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:19,070 Speaker 3: I admit it. 614 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:20,660 Speaker 1: I had a lot of animals growing up and stuff. 615 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 1: I've contained it for my poor husband generally. But I 616 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: think animals are just such a good gift from God 617 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,020 Speaker 1: of like their, talk about love, right? Their unconditional love 618 00:28:30,060 --> 00:28:32,540 Speaker 1: for us and how it is the best feeling in 619 00:28:32,580 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: the world to be like someone's hero, someone's whole world 620 00:28:35,619 --> 00:28:37,179 Speaker 1: that no matter what you did, that dog or that 621 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: cat is like so excited to see you. And so 622 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: I'm just loving animals right now. They're great. 623 00:28:42,810 --> 00:28:45,030 Speaker 2: What you said at the beginning that you have a doodle. 624 00:28:45,110 --> 00:28:48,180 Speaker 2: So I have two doodles and Literally, so my door 625 00:28:48,220 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 2: right now is closed to the office so that they're not, like, 626 00:28:50,900 --> 00:28:53,540 Speaker 2: bothering us and we're not hearing them because they would 627 00:28:53,580 --> 00:28:55,660 Speaker 2: want to be pet the whole time. So every time, 628 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 2: so I've had four interviews today, and every time, like, 629 00:28:58,180 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 2: each hour I open up the door and they're there. 630 00:29:00,300 --> 00:29:03,530 Speaker 3: They're ready and happy and wagging their tail and smiling. Like, 631 00:29:03,770 --> 00:29:06,210 Speaker 3: every single time. It's just, they're precious. 632 00:29:06,450 --> 00:29:07,950 Speaker 2: They are. I know. 633 00:29:08,070 --> 00:29:10,709 Speaker 1: It's like you're annoyed by how much they love you. 634 00:29:10,970 --> 00:29:13,050 Speaker 1: I know. My annoyance right now is because my dog 635 00:29:13,090 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: is obsessed with me. 636 00:29:14,910 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 3: Oh, what a gift. No, I love it. If only 637 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,660 Speaker 3: people could be the same way, right? Right? 638 00:29:19,700 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: I know. Unconditional love for our people. Oh, man. 639 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 3: That's the goal. That is the goal. 640 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:26,900 Speaker 2: Well, we say a lot that we feel like our 641 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,430 Speaker 2: animals are our little angels, and I don't know if 642 00:29:29,470 --> 00:29:30,940 Speaker 2: there's any biblical truth to that. 643 00:29:30,940 --> 00:29:32,690 Speaker 3: There probably isn't, but that's the way we feel. 644 00:29:32,690 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 1: My goodness. Man, I think they're going to heaven. I mean, 645 00:29:34,900 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: this is the first time I've said this publicly, but 646 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,820 Speaker 1: God is in the business of renewal. He already did 647 00:29:41,860 --> 00:29:44,310 Speaker 1: the whole first one and done creation thing. And so 648 00:29:44,450 --> 00:29:46,330 Speaker 1: I will not go down for this hill, internet. I 649 00:29:46,350 --> 00:29:49,110 Speaker 1: will not go down, but I will say, I think 650 00:29:49,230 --> 00:29:51,550 Speaker 1: that our pets are going to be there. Our little 651 00:29:51,570 --> 00:29:52,610 Speaker 1: babies are going to be there. 652 00:29:52,930 --> 00:29:53,340 Speaker 3: Made new. 653 00:29:54,170 --> 00:29:56,250 Speaker 1: God's in the business of renewal. He's remaking our earth. 654 00:29:56,290 --> 00:29:58,270 Speaker 1: He's remaking our bodies. I guess I feel like there 655 00:29:58,290 --> 00:30:01,330 Speaker 1: might be some consistencies going on, but who knows? It's 656 00:30:01,370 --> 00:30:02,090 Speaker 1: a hope that I like the most. 657 00:30:02,110 --> 00:30:04,300 Speaker 2: What's funny, we're going to get so many comments from 658 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,700 Speaker 2: today's episode, and it's going to be about this right here. 659 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 3: All dogs go to heaven. 660 00:30:07,980 --> 00:30:10,660 Speaker 1: Pay attention to all the more truthful, theologically true things 661 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: I said. I don't know, internet. 662 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 3: I don't know. That's right. 663 00:30:14,300 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 2: Well, I know I want to stay connected with you. 664 00:30:16,420 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 2: I'm sure listeners are going to want to, so tell 665 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:19,459 Speaker 2: us how we can best do that. 666 00:30:19,980 --> 00:30:20,420 Speaker 3: Absolutely. 667 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. My home base is laurawiffler.com. So that's pretty easy. 668 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,020 Speaker 1: You can kind of get to everything from there, all 669 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,239 Speaker 1: the things I dabble in. I also hang out quite 670 00:30:28,260 --> 00:30:31,270 Speaker 1: a bit on Instagram. So at laurawiffler is my other 671 00:30:31,310 --> 00:30:33,810 Speaker 1: spot on Instagram. And then, you know, there's a newsletter 672 00:30:33,830 --> 00:30:35,970 Speaker 1: you can join and you can kind of follow along 673 00:30:35,990 --> 00:30:38,270 Speaker 1: with all the crazy that I deal with around here. 674 00:30:38,470 --> 00:30:41,330 Speaker 1: And then, of course, check out the books. This Side 675 00:30:41,350 --> 00:30:44,310 Speaker 1: of the Sky is the big new one coming out 676 00:30:44,350 --> 00:30:46,750 Speaker 1: that I'm really excited for the first poetry book that 677 00:30:46,770 --> 00:30:49,290 Speaker 1: I've done. So that the link to is on my 678 00:30:49,310 --> 00:30:51,090 Speaker 1: site or you can grab it anywhere books are sold. 679 00:30:52,390 --> 00:30:54,950 Speaker 2: We will include those links in the show notes, but 680 00:30:54,970 --> 00:30:56,510 Speaker 2: would you pray for us as we close today? 681 00:30:56,870 --> 00:30:57,170 Speaker 3: Yeah. 682 00:30:57,950 --> 00:31:01,630 Speaker 1: Dear Father, we are just so grateful for the powers 683 00:31:01,850 --> 00:31:05,970 Speaker 1: of the internet and the ability to just have chats 684 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 1: with people all over the world and to share conversations. Lord, 685 00:31:09,260 --> 00:31:11,180 Speaker 1: what a gift it is that you've given us. I 686 00:31:11,910 --> 00:31:14,770 Speaker 1: pray for anyone listening today that first and foremost, you 687 00:31:14,790 --> 00:31:17,350 Speaker 1: would just help them to resonate with what is true, 688 00:31:17,490 --> 00:31:19,090 Speaker 1: with what matters, with what you want to work in 689 00:31:19,130 --> 00:31:21,570 Speaker 1: their life, and that you would toss out the rest. Lord, 690 00:31:21,670 --> 00:31:23,650 Speaker 1: put a guard over their ear for anything that is unhelpful. 691 00:31:24,090 --> 00:31:28,350 Speaker 1: And I pray for everyone listening that above all, that 692 00:31:28,410 --> 00:31:31,010 Speaker 1: we as Christians would be motivated to be optimist about 693 00:31:31,030 --> 00:31:34,510 Speaker 1: this life, that we would be a people that remembers 694 00:31:34,570 --> 00:31:37,110 Speaker 1: that we get to be hopeful. We get to experience joy. 695 00:31:37,250 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 1: We get to live in the already but not yet. 696 00:31:40,340 --> 00:31:42,780 Speaker 1: And that not yet is going to be true for us, 697 00:31:42,980 --> 00:31:46,900 Speaker 1: that you care for us and you protect us and 698 00:31:46,940 --> 00:31:49,510 Speaker 1: you are involved in our lives today. And we have 699 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,150 Speaker 1: a great hope and a great future coming, God. And 700 00:31:52,190 --> 00:31:54,890 Speaker 1: so we just give our hearts to you, our worries, 701 00:31:54,950 --> 00:31:57,450 Speaker 1: our cares and anxieties, and ask that you would just 702 00:31:58,170 --> 00:32:01,010 Speaker 1: protect us in them and cover us with the real 703 00:32:01,070 --> 00:32:03,490 Speaker 1: truths that we need to remember as Christians and that 704 00:32:03,510 --> 00:32:06,070 Speaker 1: you would show us ways to spend it all, ways 705 00:32:06,170 --> 00:32:08,190 Speaker 1: to give up our lives and to lay them down 706 00:32:08,710 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: the same way that Christ did for us. Thank you 707 00:32:11,060 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 1: for your example, Jesus. You are a gift. In your 708 00:32:13,260 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 1: name we pray. Amen. 709 00:32:15,100 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 2: Amen. 710 00:32:15,660 --> 00:32:16,410 Speaker 1: Laura, thank you. 711 00:32:16,420 --> 00:32:19,380 Speaker 2: Thank you for your time today and for just the 712 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 2: encouragement of how to live this side of the sky. 713 00:32:22,350 --> 00:32:22,790 Speaker 3: Absolutely. 714 00:32:22,830 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. 715 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to the Love Offering Podcast. 716 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,250 Speaker 2: I hope today's conversation reminded you that faith does not 717 00:32:30,310 --> 00:32:32,950 Speaker 2: require you to deny what hurts. You can bring your 718 00:32:32,990 --> 00:32:35,770 Speaker 2: honest questions, grief, and longing into the presence of God. 719 00:32:35,970 --> 00:32:38,250 Speaker 2: Even when life feels heavy, there is holiness to be 720 00:32:38,290 --> 00:32:40,970 Speaker 2: found in the ordinary. Hope to be held because heaven 721 00:32:41,050 --> 00:32:43,310 Speaker 2: is real and comfort in knowing that you are held 722 00:32:43,370 --> 00:32:46,530 Speaker 2: by God who is both tender and present. If you 723 00:32:46,570 --> 00:32:48,590 Speaker 2: enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend and 724 00:32:48,630 --> 00:32:50,650 Speaker 2: leave a review. It helps others find the show and 725 00:32:50,690 --> 00:32:53,390 Speaker 2: spreads the message of love even further. To connect with me, 726 00:32:53,470 --> 00:32:56,620 Speaker 2: visit me on my website at rachelkadams.com where you can 727 00:32:56,630 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 2: download the Love Always devotional, a free resource to help 728 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,620 Speaker 2: you realize how beloved you already are. Be sure to 729 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,540 Speaker 2: check out Laura's book, This Side of the Sky. And 730 00:33:05,580 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 2: a special thank you to Life Audio for supporting this 731 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,130 Speaker 2: podcast and making it possible. To find more great podcasts, 732 00:33:11,150 --> 00:33:15,500 Speaker 2: visit lifeaudio.com. Until next time, let's make our lives an 733 00:33:15,580 --> 00:33:16,700 Speaker 2: offering of love.