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Speaker 1: Coming up on Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic.

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Speaker 2: My wife's getting an epidural and I'm like drinking in

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Speaker 2: the chair.

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Speaker 3: I was hiding it from her. I had it in

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Speaker 3: a water bottle.

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Speaker 2: And I'm holding my wife's hand and I'm like in

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Speaker 2: and out of like consciousness basically.

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Speaker 3: Like I'm not there, you know.

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Speaker 2: And when my daughter was born, I remember one of

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Speaker 2: the nurses looking at me being like, this guy is

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Speaker 2: not right.

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Speaker 3: And right after she was born.

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Speaker 2: I told my wife I was going for a walk,

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Speaker 2: and I went right to a liquor store and bought

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Speaker 2: some airplane bottles and drank.

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Speaker 1: Them. Life Audio Hello, hello, and welcome to the Confessions

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Speaker 1: of a Christian Alcoholic podcast. I am your host, John Seidel,

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Speaker 1: and I.

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Speaker 3: Am the Christian.

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Speaker 1: who became an alcoholic, not the other way around. Here,

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Speaker 1: we get radically vulnerable about addiction, recovery, messy sanctification, and

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Speaker 1: all the things we turn to instead of Jesus because

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Speaker 1: we're all addicted to something. You'll hear raw, honest conversations

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Speaker 1: from those who have struggled, those who help those who struggle,

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Speaker 1: and why aiming for Jesus and getting sobriety thrown in

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Speaker 1: is actually the best goal. So, let's get right into

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Speaker 1: this week's episode. I think that most of us have

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Speaker 1: something that we think will finally be enough or finally

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Speaker 1: be the thing that makes us stop doing what we

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Speaker 1: don't want.

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Speaker 3: To do, right?

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Speaker 1: I had that. I talk about it in my book

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Speaker 1: a little bit. I call them my Rubicons, right? And

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Speaker 1: so if you're not familiar with the term, but it's

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Speaker 1: crossing the Rubicon. It comes from Julius Caesar and all

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. And it was like once you

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Speaker 1: cross the Rubicon, which is an actual river, it was

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Speaker 1: kind of the point of no return, right? And so

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Speaker 1: it's like, hey, here's my line. I know that if

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Speaker 1: I cross that, hey, then I really need to be–

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Speaker 1: then I really got a problem. And let me tell you,

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Speaker 1: it was so often I had that line. I had

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Speaker 1: that river. I had that thing, and I'd cross it.

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Speaker 1: And I'd look in the rearview mirror and I would say, well,

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Speaker 1: that was– there's always a bigger river. There's always a

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Speaker 1: bigger thing. Today's guest, Charles Reed, had that thing. And

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't say it was consciously in his mind. He

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Speaker 1: wasn't thinking, hey, if I ever end up drunk at

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Speaker 1: my own daughter's birth, then I know I'll have a problem.

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Speaker 1: But you can imagine that if you're listening to this

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Speaker 1: and Charles– Would think at some point, hey, if it–

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Speaker 1: that would be the thing that would show me at

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Speaker 1: least that it was really bad. And yet he gets

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Speaker 1: drunk at his own daughter's birth. He tells the story

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Speaker 1: of the nurse being hesitant to give him his newborn

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Speaker 1: daughter and him going right away down the elevator, out

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Speaker 1: the door. and straight to the liquor store to drink

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Speaker 1: some more. And that's after having a water bottle full

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Speaker 1: of liquor in the room. Friends, like, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what your Rubicon is. I don't know what your drunk

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Speaker 1: at delivery of your daughter is. But if you are

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Speaker 1: waiting for that one thing, I can tell you that

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Speaker 1: more often than not, That is actually not going to work.

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Speaker 1: And so I think you may even have heard this. Oh,

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Speaker 1: my gosh. Well, I would never be drunk at my

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Speaker 1: own daughter's birth. And you might be tempted to play

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Speaker 1: the comparison game, right? And I would caution you against

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Speaker 1: that as well because it shouldn't. I like to say this.

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Speaker 1: There's only one worst alcoholic in the world. There's only

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Speaker 1: one worst porn addict. There's only one worst meth addict.

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Speaker 1: There's only one worst adult– like fill in the blank, right?

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Speaker 1: And the race for like top 100 is still not great.

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Speaker 1: Just because you're not the most or the worst wherever

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Speaker 1: you fall, that's not a good consolation, right? So I'm

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Speaker 1: incredibly grateful to talk with Charles. If you went back–

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Speaker 1: if you go back and you might listen to the

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Speaker 1: episode with Arman Kaimakshin. Arman Kaimakshin. There we go. He's Armenian,

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Speaker 1: and so I always joke with him like I'm still

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Speaker 1: learning my Armenian. He's a friend of Arman's, and they

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Speaker 1: did a very similar program together. And so Charles is

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Speaker 1: going to talk about basically how bad it got. He's

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Speaker 1: going to talk about this incredible encounter with Jesus that

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Speaker 1: really was then the end of his addiction. And so

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Speaker 1: I want you to listen to that. I'm actually probably

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Speaker 1: going to reference that towards the end when we come

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Speaker 1: back here because I want to make a point about that.

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Speaker 1: But Charles is a great guy, and I'm excited that

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Speaker 1: he's going to tell his story. Before we get there,

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Speaker 1: please go to VeritasRecovery.org, VeritasRecovery.org, where you can sign up

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Speaker 1: for our free community. And you can also get other

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Speaker 1: great resources. You can watch my new series, We're All

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Speaker 1: Addicted to Something, which plays on RightNow Media. Or if

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Speaker 1: you sign up for the free community, you can watch

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Speaker 1: it there as well. So without further ado, Charles Reed. Charles,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining the Confessions of a

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Speaker 1: Christian Alcoholic podcast. We had a chance to kind of

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Speaker 1: do a Zoom, you know, a few weeks ago. And

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Speaker 1: you kind of gave me the outline of your story. And, man,

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Speaker 1: I was like, absolutely. We need to chat. And the

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Speaker 1: audience needs to hear your story. And so I am

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Speaker 1: honored to have you. Thanks for joining.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: I was introduced to you through a mutual friend, Armand.

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Speaker 1: I always mess up his name because he's Armenian and

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Speaker 1: I am like the least Armenian. Armand Kaimakchin, whose story

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Speaker 1: we featured on the podcast. And you guys, like, tell

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Speaker 1: us how you guys got to know each other. So

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Speaker 1: where are you from? What you do? How'd you get

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Speaker 1: to know Armand? And then we'll get into your story.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, awesome. So my name is Charles Reed. I live

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Speaker 3: in Middletown, New Jersey.

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Speaker 2: I was born in New York City, lived in New

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Speaker 2: York City for a long time. That's where a lot

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Speaker 2: of my story kind of takes place. And meeting Armand

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Speaker 2: was just God's plan. It ties into my story, like

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Speaker 2: how I met Armand. But it was just.

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Speaker 3: An unforeseen....

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Speaker 2: Meeting that was like divinely inspired, I believe, you know,

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Speaker 2: because of how we did meet.

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Speaker 3: And I'll definitely get into all that for sure.

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Speaker 2: But Armand and I are tight, you know, we're sober brothers,

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Speaker 2: we're Christ followers. Armand has been a huge motivator, motivation

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Speaker 2: for me to be able to go out there and

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Speaker 2: tell my story because he's so, you know, he's very

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Speaker 2: driven by it.

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Speaker 3: Um, he has an obviously incredible story.

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Speaker 2: And, um, so him and I go to the Asbury mission, uh,

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Speaker 2: and speak, you know, we do usually do that once

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Speaker 2: a month, um, speak to the fellows there and our

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Speaker 2: families are close and we both go to Colstead community church. Um,

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Speaker 2: we're both very rooted there. So, um, yeah, you know, he's,

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Speaker 2: he's fantastic. I mean, can't say enough good things about him.

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Speaker 1: Awesome.

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Speaker 3: Um, all right.

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Speaker 1: So you kind of teased a little bit, you know,

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Speaker 1: you have this story. I tease it a little bit, too.

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Speaker 1: But I'd love for you just to like take us

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Speaker 1: back to the beginning, whatever the beginning is.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: So for me, it's like technically my beginning to my

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Speaker 1: addiction story starts at 15. I pause, if you will,

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Speaker 1: and then don't really pick up. Don't really kind of

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Speaker 1: start down these full destructive drinking habits until my adult years.

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Speaker 1: So I would just love for you to tell your story.

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Speaker 3: Start where.

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Speaker 1: You know, you want to start and, and I want to,

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Speaker 1: you know, really learn and hopefully our audience can learn

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Speaker 1: from your experiences.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Awesome. So like you, I started drinking like around 13, 14.

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Speaker 2: One thing I remember is I never drank to really

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Speaker 2: feel good. I think I just drank to feel different,

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Speaker 2: you know, and I'll preface that by saying, I preface

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Speaker 2: that because I, My mother suffered from multiple sclerosis and

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Speaker 2: it was a very debilitating disease.

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Speaker 3: That took her down very slowly.

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Speaker 2: And so as a teenager, I would have to help

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Speaker 2: her out, like get to the bathroom, carry her around

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Speaker 2: as she needed me to, you know, kind of just

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Speaker 2: take a lot more responsibility than I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: that I was able to essentially handle at that time.

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Speaker 3: And so I thought that gave me was a green.

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Speaker 2: Light to act and do whatever I wanted to, you know?

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Speaker 2: And um, so I often say like, I didn't have,

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Speaker 2: you know, I obviously have a, uh, an addiction problem,

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Speaker 2: but I also have a fear problem, a fear of

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Speaker 2: how things affect me.

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Speaker 1: Dude, I just want to pause there, um, and say

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Speaker 1: that is an incredible insight. And I think, It is

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Speaker 1: one of the most important insights that people struggling with

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Speaker 1: doing what they don't want to do, addiction, need to realize.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, what I would say is I just

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Speaker 1: recently made that connection, right? That even as I've been

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Speaker 1: doing the work and even as I talk about gospel-centered recovery,

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Speaker 1: I did this deep discipleship program at my church recently.

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Speaker 1: And I kind of did it like thinking, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's some things, you know, there's always some things, right.

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Speaker 1: And that's part of my message. There's always some, some things,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't expect necessarily like just a lightning bolt moment.

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Speaker 1: And yet I got one. And the lightning bolt moment from,

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Speaker 1: for me was, you know, I say that my ultimate

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Speaker 1: addiction was to escapism. I still think that's true. But

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Speaker 1: what I finally learned recently is, was the reason for

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Speaker 1: the escape. The root of the root of the root.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's not just trauma. It's not just, you know,

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Speaker 1: mental health stuff. The root of the root of the root.

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Speaker 1: Those are some roots, right? But the root of the

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Speaker 1: root of the root was and is fear. And even,

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Speaker 1: you know, if people go back and listen to my

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Speaker 1: episode with Jamie Winship, I think that's, that's an important

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Speaker 1: part of that podcast. So I just, I'm so glad

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Speaker 1: to hear you say that. So thank you. So keep going.

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Speaker 1: But it's just like recognizing that at the heart was

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Speaker 1: fear is so important.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: So my, my, self-centered fear, if I can use that,

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Speaker 2: you know, cause I was very scared about how this

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Speaker 2: situation with my mother was affecting me, um, affecting my family,

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Speaker 2: affecting her, you know, um, she went from, um, from

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Speaker 2: like being a normal mother, like, you know, carrying me around,

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Speaker 2: chasing me around, picking me up from, from, from baseball games,

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Speaker 2: you know, to like being slowly put into a walker, uh,

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Speaker 2: a cane, a wheelchair, uh, where ultimately she stayed in

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Speaker 2: a wheelchair for the next multiple years of her life.

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Speaker 2: But it was that rapid decline that I think really

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Speaker 2: set off this self-centered... I.

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Speaker 3: Like to use the word escapism.

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Speaker 2: Alcohol, when it was introduced to me, was like some

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Speaker 2: buddies coming over, being like, we heard you had a

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Speaker 2: bad day, let's pound some vodka. And I remember when

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Speaker 2: I did that, my fear and my emptiness, was filled

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Speaker 2: with something that was outside of what I could expect

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Speaker 2: that to be.

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Speaker 3: And that was alcohol. It filled that gap.

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Speaker 2: It bridged the gap between my mental ability to rationalize

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Speaker 2: what was happening to me, what was going on with me.

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Speaker 2: And so as that progressed, I chased that feeling for

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Speaker 2: many years, for a better part of my life.

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Speaker 3: I'm sober four and a half years, so if I

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Speaker 3: started drinking by the.

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Speaker 2: Time I was 13 or 14 to like, whatever the

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Speaker 2: math is on that, you know, that's how long I

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Speaker 2: was like, you know, under the influence of alcohol and drugs.

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Speaker 2: You know, I like to say I was under its influence.

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Speaker 2: Like I was below it. It was, it was above me,

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Speaker 2: you know?

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Speaker 3: And, and it had me, you know?

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Speaker 2: And as I, as I got through my teenage years,

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Speaker 2: a lot of the drinking was very social. Like, I

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Speaker 2: don't know a lot of people, it starts out that

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Speaker 2: way where it's like, you know, after a football game,

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Speaker 2: you have some beers with the fellows, you're on a campfire,

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Speaker 2: it's all fun. You know, a lot of my, um,

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Speaker 2: my initial relationships were, were, were, were based all around like,

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Speaker 2: you know, alcohol, how to get it, you know, um,

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Speaker 2: fake IDs, keg parties, just kind of like the, I

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Speaker 2: grew up in a suburb of New York and, uh, and, uh,

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Speaker 2: I was, uh, an athlete. And what we did was

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Speaker 2: we drank on the weekends, you know, we drank, you know,

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Speaker 2: whatever we could drink. You know, I was the guy

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Speaker 2: who stood in front of the seven 11 and like,

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Speaker 2: we call it the, Hey mister, like, and get some

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Speaker 2: college kid to come up and be like, Hey buddy,

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Speaker 2: can you.

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Speaker 3: We have some money.

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Speaker 2: Can you get us some beers? You know, like, and

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Speaker 2: I was like, it was exciting to me. You know,

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Speaker 2: I liked that. You know, I liked this, uh, the, the,

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Speaker 2: the gratification that came into that. And as I moved on, I, um,

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Speaker 2: ended up going into college in South Carolina and, And

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Speaker 2: so like, I have to say my life was becoming unmanageable,

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Speaker 2: like pretty quickly with alcohol. And then you got drugs

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Speaker 2: on top of that. And like, but I didn't realize

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Speaker 2: that for a long time. I think that's a lot

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Speaker 2: of like where my problem lies is my not being

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Speaker 2: aware of how it was affecting my life. Even though

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Speaker 2: the circumstances and consequences that were happening to me were

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Speaker 2: very clear to most people outside of myself.

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Speaker 1: What did those circumstances and consequences look like around this time?

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back after this.

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Speaker 2: So I was I went to school for like three

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Speaker 2: or three or four months and I was kicked out

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Speaker 2: because I was selling marijuana on campus. And where I

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Speaker 2: was right to school, you couldn't have alcohol in the

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Speaker 2: dorm room. And I had like kegs in my dorm room.

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Speaker 2: People would come to my dorm room and drink. And like,

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Speaker 2: I loved it. You know, I was I was. You know,

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Speaker 2: I assume popular because I could do these things and

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Speaker 2: I like the attention. And I also liked getting outside

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Speaker 2: of myself because I still carried that fear that we

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Speaker 2: talked about. I still carried that. I think it's a

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Speaker 2: couple of things. I think one, it's like fear that

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Speaker 2: you're not going to like who I am. I think

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Speaker 2: it's fear of not getting what I want or losing

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Speaker 2: what I have. Or it's fear of just being afraid

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Speaker 2: of how things that I don't understand are going to

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Speaker 2: work out, are going to work out.

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Speaker 3: So fear of the unknown.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And so, you know, I was I was kicked out

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Speaker 2: of school very quickly. I wasted all the money my

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Speaker 2: parents had saved up for me to go there. I

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Speaker 2: come home and my parents are like, you know, you're

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Speaker 2: going to work or you're going to go to school.

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Speaker 2: What's your choice to be? And I was like, I'm

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Speaker 2: moving to the city, you know, which is a great

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Speaker 2: play for me because as an unknown, you know, alcoholic

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Speaker 2: and addict like that was the place for me to

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Speaker 2: go but not that i knew that intentionally i was

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Speaker 2: like i'm gonna go to the city and i'm gonna

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Speaker 2: i'm gonna have a good time and i'm gonna go

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Speaker 2: to school in the city and i'm gonna be this

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Speaker 2: like live this urban you know lifestyle of like art

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Speaker 2: galleries and uh you know cool bars and clubs and

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Speaker 2: you know the allure of what that would bring to

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Speaker 2: like a you know a 19 year old kid 18

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Speaker 2: year old kid 19 year old kid.

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Speaker 1: Which, by the way, for those of you who are

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Speaker 1: not initiated, us East Coast folk, which even though I

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Speaker 1: grew up in Wisconsin, live in Dallas, spent seven years

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Speaker 1: in New York City, the city is New York City.

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Speaker 1: When you say on the East Coast, the Boston people

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Speaker 1: maybe try to claim it as well, but when you

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Speaker 1: say the city, that is New York City. That's it. Manhattan.

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Speaker 2: Lower East Side of Manhattan is where I rooted myself there.

305
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Speaker 2: I got a job in a bar, which was very

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Speaker 2: natural to me. I started out bar backing. Then I

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Speaker 2: got into bartending. And it was the same thing. It

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Speaker 2: was like being a part of a cool vibe of

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Speaker 2: hip-hop music.

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Speaker 3: Blaring and.

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Speaker 2: Girls and making a lot of friends and connections and

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Speaker 2: just as fast paced lifestyle that I got into very quickly.

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Speaker 2: And as I was doing that, my alcoholism and my

314
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Speaker 2: drug addiction were progressing, but it was unbeknownst to me

315
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Speaker 2: because I was like, everybody does this. The weird thing

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Speaker 2: was that when everybody stopped doing it, I kept doing it.

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Speaker 2: You know, I was the after hours guy.

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Speaker 3: Like I had to go more.

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Speaker 2: I drank after the party in my apartment and, just

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Speaker 2: to kind of come down from like, you know, whether

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Speaker 2: it was Coke or whatever I was doing that night,

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Speaker 2: you know, just to like calm myself down, you know,

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Speaker 2: which was like a.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And, you know, I think I always try to

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Speaker 1: be careful here, but I'm still going to say this

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Speaker 1: and I'll give it the caveat that it needs is,

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Speaker 1: you know, I say you don't have to have your drinking,

328
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Speaker 1: your addiction, your drug problem. doesn't have to look like

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Speaker 1: what you just described in order for it to be

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Speaker 1: a problem, especially if you're a Christian, right? And yet

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Speaker 1: it is interesting to me how many people who end

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Speaker 1: up where you were going to, you know, describe where

333
00:19:44,090 --> 00:19:47,270
Speaker 1: you ended up and where I ended up, that one

334
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Speaker 1: of the signs that we wish we would have seen

335
00:19:55,850 --> 00:20:06,150
Speaker 1: earlier is this almost insatiable need to keep going after

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00:20:06,190 --> 00:20:11,480
Speaker 1: the quote unquote normal person has stopped. Right? Like, I was,

337
00:20:12,580 --> 00:20:16,740
Speaker 1: you know, like that's part of my story is like

338
00:20:16,940 --> 00:20:22,750
Speaker 1: everyone else can only have two or one or even three. Right.

339
00:20:22,890 --> 00:20:26,609
Speaker 1: And I'm just like, the party's just getting started or

340
00:20:26,650 --> 00:20:28,710
Speaker 1: not even the party. Right. Because I wasn't really like

341
00:20:28,750 --> 00:20:33,609
Speaker 1: a party or drinker. It's like, wait, no, like you

342
00:20:33,630 --> 00:20:36,129
Speaker 1: need to keep going. Like there's there's more benefits to

343
00:20:36,150 --> 00:20:40,590
Speaker 1: get or there's like, just keep going. Right. And. And

344
00:20:40,730 --> 00:20:43,870
Speaker 1: so again, it's like, you know, if you're listening to this, please,

345
00:20:44,150 --> 00:20:46,600
Speaker 1: I don't want you to get to that point, right? Like,

346
00:20:47,490 --> 00:20:50,840
Speaker 1: take this captive and realize your propensity or that it's

347
00:20:50,859 --> 00:20:54,500
Speaker 1: a problem earlier than that. But yet, if you don't,

348
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,720
Speaker 1: this is another mile marker. This is another mile marker

349
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:09,920
Speaker 1: to be aware of. That like, family gatherings, you know, Christmas, holidays, Sure,

350
00:21:10,220 --> 00:21:12,679
Speaker 1: even when the other people are drinking a little bit more,

351
00:21:13,660 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 1: I'm like really going hard, if you will. That's a gift,

352
00:21:21,220 --> 00:21:25,320
Speaker 1: if you will, to recognize that and to see that.

353
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Speaker 1: And so I hope people are listening to this, listening

354
00:21:28,660 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 1: to your story and being like, oh, yeah, I kind

355
00:21:34,100 --> 00:21:37,580
Speaker 1: of tend to do that too. Like, you know, in

356
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Speaker 1: certain settings, you know, when the normal people have two,

357
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,649
Speaker 1: I have to have four. When the normal people have four,

358
00:21:43,850 --> 00:21:48,429
Speaker 1: I have to have eight, you know? So continue. But

359
00:21:48,450 --> 00:21:51,149
Speaker 1: I think that's a good, it's a good thing to

360
00:21:51,170 --> 00:21:52,430
Speaker 1: point out. Yeah.

361
00:21:52,450 --> 00:21:56,050
Speaker 2: I'll piggyback on that and say like, when the alcohol

362
00:21:56,070 --> 00:21:59,820
Speaker 2: was making decisions for me, like that's when like the

363
00:21:59,859 --> 00:22:01,979
Speaker 2: red light sort of got like the, the alarm should

364
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,500
Speaker 2: have got off. Like you're kicked out of school. You're,

365
00:22:05,940 --> 00:22:09,810
Speaker 2: you didn't take any, any responsibility for that. You're living

366
00:22:09,850 --> 00:22:13,830
Speaker 2: in Manhattan, you're bartending, you're barely going to class. You know,

367
00:22:13,869 --> 00:22:18,650
Speaker 2: I was going to a community college there. Um, never

368
00:22:18,710 --> 00:22:22,770
Speaker 2: graduated that never. I, it was all unfinished projects basically. Like,

369
00:22:22,790 --> 00:22:26,109
Speaker 2: cause everything focused around this alcohol problem, you know, and this, uh,

370
00:22:26,170 --> 00:22:26,990
Speaker 2: addiction problem.

371
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Speaker 3: And, um, so because as I think, um, I was

372
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Speaker 3: able to kind.

373
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Speaker 2: Of understand of how to get where I wanted when

374
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,640
Speaker 2: I wanted it that transferred into my, my professional life.

375
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Speaker 3: So I made career. I made, I, I was able

376
00:22:45,859 --> 00:22:48,179
Speaker 3: to get a career, uh, working in a, in a,

377
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 3: in a, in a.

378
00:22:48,820 --> 00:22:53,190
Speaker 2: Firm doing recruiting, uh, for corporate corporate firms by a

379
00:22:53,210 --> 00:22:54,490
Speaker 2: guy that I met through a friend.

380
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Speaker 3: And it was a corporate job.

381
00:22:57,369 --> 00:23:00,330
Speaker 2: Um, and you take somebody that's used this nice nightlife

382
00:23:00,369 --> 00:23:03,649
Speaker 2: lifestyle and you plop them down in that. And a

383
00:23:03,690 --> 00:23:07,300
Speaker 2: lot of the, um, attributes I could use that word

384
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:09,500
Speaker 2: of like being able to talk to people and stuff

385
00:23:09,540 --> 00:23:10,940
Speaker 2: was very appealing in this job.

386
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 3: It was very, it led me up for success.

387
00:23:14,540 --> 00:23:17,050
Speaker 2: But what happened again was I started stumbling over my

388
00:23:17,109 --> 00:23:20,190
Speaker 2: feet because I was getting, coming into the office, hungover,

389
00:23:20,270 --> 00:23:22,650
Speaker 2: stinking like alcohol, been out all night and I get

390
00:23:22,670 --> 00:23:24,750
Speaker 2: sent home by them. And that's where I went to

391
00:23:24,770 --> 00:23:28,790
Speaker 2: my first rehab. Cause I've been in several, you know? And, um,

392
00:23:29,430 --> 00:23:30,890
Speaker 2: so they gave me an ultimatum.

393
00:23:31,070 --> 00:23:31,810
Speaker 3: What, what, yeah.

394
00:23:31,850 --> 00:23:34,050
Speaker 1: What made you, what made you go to rehab the

395
00:23:34,070 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 1: first time? Like, what was it? That you realize.

396
00:23:36,260 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 3: They gave me an ultimatum.

397
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:37,980
Speaker 1: Yeah.

398
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 2: They said either you're going to rehab or you lose

399
00:23:40,460 --> 00:23:44,639
Speaker 2: your job. You know, they had had it. But I

400
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,239
Speaker 2: give them a lot of credit because they took that

401
00:23:46,300 --> 00:23:48,199
Speaker 2: step to like pay for me to go to this

402
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:49,179
Speaker 2: place in Connecticut.

403
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:49,740
Speaker 1: Wow.

404
00:23:49,980 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 2: And I stayed in there for about a week. And

405
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 2: I checked myself out and drank the next day. You know,

406
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,990
Speaker 2: I didn't take any of it seriously, you know. Actually,

407
00:24:02,130 --> 00:24:04,350
Speaker 2: you know, a quick story is like some guys from

408
00:24:04,510 --> 00:24:08,609
Speaker 2: AA came into the room and we're talking about alcoholism

409
00:24:08,630 --> 00:24:10,430
Speaker 2: and stuff. And I was so obnoxious that they asked

410
00:24:10,450 --> 00:24:14,430
Speaker 2: me to leave the room because I was distracting everybody.

411
00:24:14,890 --> 00:24:17,310
Speaker 2: Like my mentality was like, I didn't need to be here. Like,

412
00:24:17,330 --> 00:24:19,810
Speaker 2: this is not for me. Like, I'm just here to

413
00:24:19,830 --> 00:24:20,450
Speaker 2: save my job.

414
00:24:21,190 --> 00:24:21,390
Speaker 1: Right.

415
00:24:21,590 --> 00:24:24,810
Speaker 2: So there's no connection to Christ in any of this.

416
00:24:24,910 --> 00:24:28,369
Speaker 2: You know, like it's me running the show or thinking

417
00:24:28,390 --> 00:24:31,270
Speaker 2: that I'm running the show. without any foundation of a

418
00:24:31,330 --> 00:24:36,550
Speaker 2: rock that I could stand on, you know? And that

419
00:24:36,590 --> 00:24:39,969
Speaker 2: progressed for, you know, say 10 years. And then I'll

420
00:24:39,990 --> 00:24:41,790
Speaker 2: kind of get into the meat of it, you know,

421
00:24:41,830 --> 00:24:45,470
Speaker 2: like the meat of like what really went down was, was,

422
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,100
Speaker 2: was actually during COVID.

423
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 3: And.

424
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 1: So for that 10 years, are you just kind of,

425
00:24:53,140 --> 00:24:55,100
Speaker 1: Are you going from job to job? Did you lose

426
00:24:55,140 --> 00:24:58,060
Speaker 1: that job? Are you in and out of some other treatments?

427
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 1: Like what is, what is high level kind of that

428
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 1: 10 years look like?

429
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

430
00:25:03,820 --> 00:25:08,139
Speaker 2: From like a high level view is I was, I

431
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,070
Speaker 2: was successful at the ins and outs of the job

432
00:25:11,109 --> 00:25:13,410
Speaker 2: because it was very performance based. So I was very

433
00:25:13,450 --> 00:25:16,470
Speaker 2: driven monetarily by that. You know, I wanted to have

434
00:25:16,530 --> 00:25:18,810
Speaker 2: money so I could do, I could party. So it

435
00:25:18,869 --> 00:25:22,340
Speaker 2: drove me to like be successful and, my Achilles heel

436
00:25:22,380 --> 00:25:24,260
Speaker 2: was the fact that like, I was the guy that

437
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,439
Speaker 2: could close the big deal, but not show up for

438
00:25:26,460 --> 00:25:28,580
Speaker 2: work the next day because I would have been out

439
00:25:28,619 --> 00:25:32,770
Speaker 2: all night, you know, and, and, and employers, you know, um,

440
00:25:36,070 --> 00:25:38,250
Speaker 2: I think they do their best to kind of understand the, the,

441
00:25:38,310 --> 00:25:40,190
Speaker 2: the mind frame of an addict and an alcoholic, but,

442
00:25:40,910 --> 00:25:42,990
Speaker 2: you know, they have parameters set up around it. That's,

443
00:25:43,030 --> 00:25:45,150
Speaker 2: you know, the HR department and things that they'll do

444
00:25:45,230 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 2: and they'll get involved with it.

445
00:25:46,310 --> 00:25:48,990
Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, I don't think

446
00:25:49,030 --> 00:25:49,570
Speaker 3: that they're right.

447
00:25:49,609 --> 00:25:51,570
Speaker 2: They were able to get me sober because of the

448
00:25:51,609 --> 00:25:54,570
Speaker 2: threat of losing a job. So I would continue to

449
00:25:54,609 --> 00:25:57,450
Speaker 2: work and I, I would do well, but I would

450
00:25:57,470 --> 00:25:59,620
Speaker 2: trip up over my own feet. You know, that's, that's

451
00:25:59,630 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 2: really where we go on. It was like a lasagna

452
00:26:02,220 --> 00:26:06,100
Speaker 2: noodle up, down, up, down, up, down, you know, like,

453
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,500
Speaker 2: you know, it was just this tumultuous lifestyle.

454
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,389
Speaker 1: Yep. And I think, you know, it kind of reminds

455
00:26:13,430 --> 00:26:19,750
Speaker 1: me a little bit of, you know, the star athlete, right?

456
00:26:19,770 --> 00:26:23,830
Speaker 1: You hear these stories all the time that like the

457
00:26:23,869 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 1: star athlete who can perform, win championships, score a lot

458
00:26:27,859 --> 00:26:33,619
Speaker 1: of points, you know, generally they are the ones that

459
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: are late for meetings that aren't showing up, you know,

460
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,580
Speaker 1: for X, Y, and Z that are getting all these,

461
00:26:40,619 --> 00:26:45,740
Speaker 1: you know, all the special treatment behind the scenes. Why? Well, yeah,

462
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,460
Speaker 1: if you're a rookie and you're doing that, no way, right?

463
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,139
Speaker 1: You got to be held accountable. But if you're closing

464
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:56,310
Speaker 1: the deals, if you're making the money, if you're winning

465
00:26:56,350 --> 00:27:01,430
Speaker 1: the championships, you know, we're willing to look the other

466
00:27:01,470 --> 00:27:04,150
Speaker 1: way or we're willing to give lip service or we're

467
00:27:04,190 --> 00:27:05,990
Speaker 1: willing to try to help you to a certain degree.

468
00:27:06,030 --> 00:27:09,770
Speaker 1: But really, when it comes down to it, we need you, right?

469
00:27:10,430 --> 00:27:11,930
Speaker 1: So do you think there's kind of some of that

470
00:27:12,010 --> 00:27:12,389
Speaker 1: going on?

471
00:27:12,410 --> 00:27:16,790
Speaker 2: Uh, I think that it was, yes, because, uh, as

472
00:27:16,850 --> 00:27:19,609
Speaker 2: a producer, I was able to produce for these, for

473
00:27:19,630 --> 00:27:22,450
Speaker 2: these firms that hired me. Um, and looking at things

474
00:27:22,510 --> 00:27:25,990
Speaker 2: now as a Christian and as a believer of Christ, um,

475
00:27:26,250 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 2: that I look at myself as I was being very

476
00:27:30,380 --> 00:27:34,460
Speaker 2: selfish in that behavior. So yes, they, they, they, I'm

477
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,980
Speaker 2: not saying that they were, um, enabling me. Right.

478
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,300
Speaker 3: But, but, it was more of me.

479
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,540
Speaker 2: As a taker taking from them what I wanted and

480
00:27:44,580 --> 00:27:46,899
Speaker 2: not giving back with what was the agreed upon deal

481
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,210
Speaker 2: when they hired me. You know, it wasn't the full,

482
00:27:50,350 --> 00:27:52,170
Speaker 2: it was the, it was the, it was the smoke

483
00:27:52,210 --> 00:27:52,770
Speaker 2: and mirrors.

484
00:27:53,250 --> 00:27:53,470
Speaker 1: Yeah.

485
00:27:54,250 --> 00:27:55,949
Speaker 3: I could get you the deal, but you know, you

486
00:27:55,970 --> 00:27:57,389
Speaker 3: got to deal with this guy who's out of control.

487
00:27:57,950 --> 00:28:03,290
Speaker 1: Right. Right. Okay. So you said that was kind of,

488
00:28:03,310 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: you know, the overview of that 10 years and then

489
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:11,189
Speaker 1: COVID comes along and that's where, you know, what I

490
00:28:11,230 --> 00:28:13,990
Speaker 1: call my severe slide period, you know, kind of a

491
00:28:14,030 --> 00:28:17,469
Speaker 1: similar thing, right? Like I had, you know, I had

492
00:28:17,490 --> 00:28:21,649
Speaker 1: this up and down relationship with alcohol. Um, I would

493
00:28:21,730 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: cut back, I would get stressed and drink, you know, and, and,

494
00:28:26,619 --> 00:28:31,379
Speaker 1: and I would, um, advance in my faith. Right. And

495
00:28:31,420 --> 00:28:33,790
Speaker 1: yet still kind of had this thing. And that was,

496
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:38,380
Speaker 1: if you will, from, you know, 2000 and, um, 10,

497
00:28:38,380 --> 00:28:46,660
Speaker 1: 2012 to about 2021. Right. So, you know, maybe like

498
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:51,810
Speaker 1: nine years, if you will. Um, so have a, my

499
00:28:51,850 --> 00:28:53,910
Speaker 1: story in a sense has a very similar kind of

500
00:28:54,950 --> 00:28:56,930
Speaker 1: period where it's up and down, up and down. There's

501
00:28:56,950 --> 00:29:00,270
Speaker 1: stories in there. Right. But, but, but there's for me

502
00:29:00,430 --> 00:29:03,950
Speaker 1: and for you, there's that point where it just really

503
00:29:04,010 --> 00:29:06,550
Speaker 1: takes a turn. And so bring us to that.

504
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:08,340
Speaker 2: Right.

505
00:29:08,650 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 3: Great.

506
00:29:09,260 --> 00:29:11,690
Speaker 2: Um, I appreciate you saying that because the Lord is

507
00:29:11,770 --> 00:29:13,380
Speaker 2: pulling at you.

508
00:29:14,820 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 3: For me, I had no connection there.

509
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 2: My wife is pregnant with my first daughter to be born.

510
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 2: She's eight months pregnant. COVID slams the brakes on life

511
00:29:27,740 --> 00:29:30,930
Speaker 2: for all of us. I'm pulled out of my natural

512
00:29:30,950 --> 00:29:33,670
Speaker 2: environment of hustle and bustle in New York City. We

513
00:29:34,410 --> 00:29:36,290
Speaker 2: went to live with my in-laws for what was supposed

514
00:29:36,310 --> 00:29:36,870
Speaker 2: to be a week.

515
00:29:37,570 --> 00:29:38,970
Speaker 3: We ended up staying for a year and a half.

516
00:29:43,030 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 2: So I got exposed pretty quickly about like what was

517
00:29:46,580 --> 00:29:48,430
Speaker 2: really up with me. You know, I was able to

518
00:29:48,820 --> 00:29:51,740
Speaker 2: act upon like, you know, when I was in the city,

519
00:29:51,780 --> 00:29:54,060
Speaker 2: I could be the actor and like, you know, put

520
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:55,980
Speaker 2: the pieces together where it's like, I'm just a social guy.

521
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:56,620
Speaker 3: I like to party.

522
00:29:56,660 --> 00:29:58,930
Speaker 2: I have fun, but I'm not like this. But you

523
00:29:58,990 --> 00:30:01,310
Speaker 2: put me in a room when I can't drink the

524
00:30:01,330 --> 00:30:03,450
Speaker 2: way I want to drink. I'm going to find a

525
00:30:03,450 --> 00:30:04,850
Speaker 2: way to drink the way that I want to drink.

526
00:30:05,490 --> 00:30:07,450
Speaker 2: And that's when the hiding comes in. And that's when

527
00:30:07,490 --> 00:30:11,910
Speaker 2: the stashing bottles around the house comes in. And, you know, just,

528
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:13,990
Speaker 2: you know, it kind of just goes on and on

529
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:19,100
Speaker 2: in that way. But what went on was I became

530
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 2: this like really lost soul. I thought I had like

531
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 2: lost my soul. Like I was like blank. So like

532
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 2: I didn't feel good. I didn't feel bad. I just

533
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 2: felt really nothing. And all I wanted to do was

534
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 2: just drink myself out of that. So I would check,

535
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,719
Speaker 2: I'd tell my wife, I'm going, sorry, see example. I'd

536
00:30:34,740 --> 00:30:36,190
Speaker 2: tell my wife, I'm going to work in the city.

537
00:30:36,570 --> 00:30:37,750
Speaker 2: I had a job in the city at the time.

538
00:30:38,630 --> 00:30:40,390
Speaker 2: I was remote, but they had a hybrid model at

539
00:30:40,410 --> 00:30:43,990
Speaker 2: this point. And as opposed to going to the city,

540
00:30:44,030 --> 00:30:45,710
Speaker 2: I would take myself into a hotel room and just

541
00:30:45,750 --> 00:30:46,980
Speaker 2: drinking drugs.

542
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,620
Speaker 3: In there all day and then go home and be blasted.

543
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,940
Speaker 3: And she'd be like, what's up with you? A long

544
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:52,580
Speaker 3: day at the office.

545
00:30:52,620 --> 00:30:54,860
Speaker 2: But, you know, they knew I was lying, you know, like,

546
00:30:55,290 --> 00:30:57,229
Speaker 2: I started to, that's another part where my life had

547
00:30:57,250 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 2: become unmanageable was I was lying to protect my, my,

548
00:31:00,780 --> 00:31:05,620
Speaker 2: my addiction, you know, um, to my father.

549
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,580
Speaker 1: In the hiding, the lion in the hiding. Right. And,

550
00:31:07,660 --> 00:31:10,150
Speaker 1: and we think we're doing such a good job of it.

551
00:31:10,420 --> 00:31:13,350
Speaker 1: And in some ways, you know, I think we do

552
00:31:14,630 --> 00:31:18,470
Speaker 1: take the edges off of the depths of it. Right. But,

553
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: it starts to break through and, but we're like, Oh,

554
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: they have no idea. Like I've, I've pulled the wool

555
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: over their eyes.

556
00:31:25,140 --> 00:31:25,850
Speaker 3: Yeah. Sure.

557
00:31:25,870 --> 00:31:26,180
Speaker 1: Yeah.

558
00:31:26,310 --> 00:31:28,930
Speaker 3: It's, it's, it's insanity really is what it is. It's, it's,

559
00:31:28,990 --> 00:31:30,930
Speaker 3: it's insanity, you know?

560
00:31:33,310 --> 00:31:39,620
Speaker 2: So my wife is, is becoming very frustrated with me

561
00:31:39,630 --> 00:31:42,540
Speaker 2: because I'm putting her through hell basically, you know, I'm

562
00:31:42,580 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 2: not available to her while she's pregnant. I ended up

563
00:31:45,780 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 2: quitting my job while we were on the benefits of

564
00:31:48,620 --> 00:31:51,780
Speaker 2: my company while she was pregnant. And now we don't

565
00:31:51,820 --> 00:31:53,860
Speaker 2: have benefits. And like, we're like, she's like, what are,

566
00:31:53,980 --> 00:31:57,479
Speaker 2: what are you doing to us? You're like, you're just,

567
00:31:57,510 --> 00:32:00,610
Speaker 2: your decision-making is, it's not lining up at all. It's

568
00:32:00,650 --> 00:32:01,610
Speaker 2: a very rational.

569
00:32:02,710 --> 00:32:04,730
Speaker 3: And she's, she's a believer.

570
00:32:04,750 --> 00:32:05,770
Speaker 1: Right.

571
00:32:05,950 --> 00:32:08,870
Speaker 2: So she was leaning on, if you, if you speak

572
00:32:08,890 --> 00:32:11,850
Speaker 2: to her today, like she was leaning on, on, on

573
00:32:11,890 --> 00:32:14,780
Speaker 2: Jesus and, to get her through this whole time.

574
00:32:15,020 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: Without that, she's not making it through that. You know,

575
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: she self-admits that. Did she become a Christian after you

576
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,380
Speaker 1: guys married? Or was she kind of always a Christian? Like,

577
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: what was her faith journey?

578
00:32:25,340 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, great question.

579
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 2: So growing up, she was very much involved in the church,

580
00:32:28,940 --> 00:32:32,750
Speaker 2: very much raised by my mother-in-law, who's a very firm believer. But,

581
00:32:32,770 --> 00:32:36,230
Speaker 2: you know, you get into those teenage years, those college years,

582
00:32:36,290 --> 00:32:39,630
Speaker 2: those early professional years, and the world pulls at you,

583
00:32:39,650 --> 00:32:42,020
Speaker 2: you know, and I think it pulled at her. And

584
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 2: not that she had ever stopped believing in Jesus, but

585
00:32:44,780 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 2: her relationship with him wasn't as close as it had

586
00:32:47,900 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 2: to become in this point of.

587
00:32:50,780 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 3: Desperation, really.

588
00:32:54,740 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 2: So this feeling of just nothing went on for almost

589
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,530
Speaker 2: like a year. So we're pushing into 2021 now.

590
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:05,090
Speaker 1: And I've had enough.

591
00:33:11,910 --> 00:33:14,410
Speaker 2: I can't take it anymore. I can't take it. It

592
00:33:15,210 --> 00:33:20,590
Speaker 2: was like I was removed from society. It had taken

593
00:33:20,610 --> 00:33:23,250
Speaker 2: me to a place where it had me cornered. Alcohol

594
00:33:23,610 --> 00:33:26,450
Speaker 2: had me cornered. And every decision that I made was

595
00:33:26,490 --> 00:33:27,710
Speaker 2: about how to get it. And all I could do

596
00:33:27,730 --> 00:33:30,740
Speaker 2: was do that. And I couldn't do anything else.

597
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: So you're not working at this point?

598
00:33:33,660 --> 00:33:36,620
Speaker 3: I quit. I quit my job.

599
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,180
Speaker 1: So what are your days... practically look like.

600
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 2: Yeah i'm gnarly you know like uh waking up um

601
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:52,570
Speaker 2: getting to a bottle you know um getting to you

602
00:33:52,590 --> 00:33:54,970
Speaker 2: know i started to abuse like things like um a

603
00:33:56,090 --> 00:34:01,110
Speaker 2: benzodiazepine so like xanax you know klonopin um i'd bring

604
00:34:01,130 --> 00:34:03,510
Speaker 2: myself way up you know maybe do some coke and

605
00:34:03,550 --> 00:34:07,190
Speaker 2: then take some Xanax to come down, you know, like

606
00:34:07,290 --> 00:34:09,489
Speaker 2: I was very clever about figuring out how to get

607
00:34:09,510 --> 00:34:10,670
Speaker 2: what I wanted when I wanted it.

608
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:17,540
Speaker 3: It was kind of like my, you know, I think as.

609
00:34:18,500 --> 00:34:22,140
Speaker 2: An alcoholic addict, like that's something that I'm very good

610
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,700
Speaker 2: at is getting what I want and figuring out how

611
00:34:24,739 --> 00:34:28,460
Speaker 2: to get it, you know, regardless of the circumstances. So

612
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:37,370
Speaker 2: my wife is like, Very concerned in my family, in

613
00:34:37,410 --> 00:34:40,910
Speaker 2: my in-laws. I live at my in-laws' house. They're like,

614
00:34:40,930 --> 00:34:42,049
Speaker 2: what is up with this guy? So yeah, the answer

615
00:34:42,070 --> 00:34:46,049
Speaker 2: to your question is waking up, using drinking, trying to

616
00:34:46,090 --> 00:34:48,730
Speaker 2: pull it off during the day, drinking more during the day.

617
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,020
Speaker 2: I call it the yets. I would never drink and drive.

618
00:34:53,540 --> 00:34:55,980
Speaker 2: That's not me. I'm from the city. I always took Ubers.

619
00:34:56,860 --> 00:35:00,900
Speaker 2: I drank and drove my in-laws' car all the time

620
00:35:02,060 --> 00:35:04,290
Speaker 2: to go to their liquor store. And I'd go to

621
00:35:04,330 --> 00:35:06,170
Speaker 2: liquor stores and I'd go to different ones because I

622
00:35:06,190 --> 00:35:07,930
Speaker 2: didn't want them. I was embarrassed at how often I

623
00:35:07,989 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 2: was at them. So I'd go to different ones. You know,

624
00:35:11,540 --> 00:35:14,739
Speaker 2: it's very, it's, it's very manipulating, but the only person

625
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:16,020
Speaker 2: I'm manipulating is myself.

626
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:16,660
Speaker 1: Yeah.

627
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:18,280
Speaker 3: Cause the guys don't care.

628
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,339
Speaker 1: You know, I had that, I had that, I had

629
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 1: that thing too. And I know a lot of people

630
00:35:23,820 --> 00:35:28,910
Speaker 1: do of, of drinking and driving, um, of being, I'll

631
00:35:28,930 --> 00:35:32,860
Speaker 1: never do that. Right. You know, uh, How do I

632
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:34,720
Speaker 1: know I'm not an alcoholic? I'm not drinking and driving

633
00:35:37,100 --> 00:35:40,830
Speaker 1: until I did and did it the first time. And

634
00:35:40,850 --> 00:35:46,009
Speaker 1: I was like, well, I mean, I wasn't blackout, you know,

635
00:35:46,030 --> 00:35:51,280
Speaker 1: I was a little buzzed. What's a little buzzed, you know? Yeah, sure.

636
00:35:51,380 --> 00:35:54,740
Speaker 1: A soccer mom at 0.08 is swerving all over the place.

637
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:59,980
Speaker 1: But me at 0.08 is like, I'm fine. Right.

638
00:36:00,020 --> 00:36:00,300
Speaker 3: Yeah.

639
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: Right. So, you know, it's and if you're listening to this,

640
00:36:04,380 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: maybe your thing is you're you know, I say this

641
00:36:07,140 --> 00:36:10,219
Speaker 1: in my book. I call our Rubicons. Right. You know,

642
00:36:11,219 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 1: and that's you know, it goes back to the Roman

643
00:36:12,930 --> 00:36:15,609
Speaker 1: days of like, you know, once I think Caesar crossed

644
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:17,629
Speaker 1: the Rubicon, it was like a point of no return. Right.

645
00:36:17,710 --> 00:36:21,930
Speaker 1: And so we say we tell ourselves we create these Rubicons. Well,

646
00:36:22,350 --> 00:36:25,210
Speaker 1: I'll never drink and drive. And then we do. Right.

647
00:36:25,610 --> 00:36:27,810
Speaker 1: And so I don't know what yours is. If you're

648
00:36:27,850 --> 00:36:29,350
Speaker 1: listening to this, maybe that's it.

649
00:36:29,810 --> 00:36:29,950
Speaker 3: Right.

650
00:36:30,450 --> 00:36:36,009
Speaker 1: But, but there were before drinking and driving, there were

651
00:36:36,030 --> 00:36:39,550
Speaker 1: several Rubicons after drinking and driving. Then there were several Rubicons.

652
00:36:40,250 --> 00:36:42,870
Speaker 1: And so I want to encourage you if you're listening

653
00:36:42,890 --> 00:36:45,230
Speaker 1: to this is where have you started to make those

654
00:36:45,270 --> 00:36:47,730
Speaker 1: compromises with whatever you're struggling with?

655
00:36:48,190 --> 00:36:48,370
Speaker 2: Right.

656
00:36:48,810 --> 00:36:52,350
Speaker 1: Whether it's porn or food or work, you know, um,

657
00:36:52,630 --> 00:36:54,670
Speaker 1: I just said, you know, work is a good one, right?

658
00:36:54,690 --> 00:36:59,660
Speaker 1: Like I sent an email yesterday, um, as we're recording this,

659
00:37:00,020 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 1: my daughter, who I help coach her softball team, she's 11, like,

660
00:37:09,660 --> 00:37:13,830
Speaker 1: made the championship game. And I had a work commitment

661
00:37:15,070 --> 00:37:22,150
Speaker 1: that I was supposed to do now, the day of

662
00:37:22,489 --> 00:37:28,370
Speaker 1: her championship game. And I just sent an email and said, hey, guys.

663
00:37:29,610 --> 00:37:33,630
Speaker 1: And it's a good thing, right? It's actually involves a church. Now,

664
00:37:33,650 --> 00:37:36,110
Speaker 1: it's not like this, you know, this paid speaking event

665
00:37:36,150 --> 00:37:38,730
Speaker 1: or anything like that, but just helping out this church

666
00:37:39,010 --> 00:37:42,569
Speaker 1: in do something on this Wednesday on this night. And

667
00:37:42,610 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 1: I said, hey, guys. You know, just want to let

668
00:37:47,940 --> 00:37:51,580
Speaker 1: you know, my daughter's softball team made the championship game.

669
00:37:52,780 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: I really need to be there for that. And so

670
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,589
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, but I'm not going to be able

671
00:37:58,670 --> 00:38:04,569
Speaker 1: to help out on Wednesday night. And like, on one hand,

672
00:38:04,610 --> 00:38:06,469
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I hope they understand. Like, I don't

673
00:38:06,489 --> 00:38:09,029
Speaker 1: want to disappoint them. But on the other hand, I'm like,

674
00:38:09,630 --> 00:38:12,140
Speaker 1: if they came back and said, you piece of trash,

675
00:38:12,530 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 1: how dare you? I'd be like, listen, I just like

676
00:38:17,300 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: this is a core memory opportunity for my daughter. I

677
00:38:20,020 --> 00:38:22,919
Speaker 1: want her to remember me as the person who was

678
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,020
Speaker 1: there and valued her. So all that to say, not

679
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,359
Speaker 1: to pat myself on the back, right? But to say,

680
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:34,620
Speaker 1: you know, maybe if your issue is work, you said, well,

681
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: I'll never miss fill in the blank. I'll never miss

682
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:43,969
Speaker 1: the Christmas performance. I'll never miss the championship game, right?

683
00:38:45,030 --> 00:38:49,750
Speaker 1: And yet, what are those things that you are missing

684
00:38:49,850 --> 00:38:52,850
Speaker 1: that will then make missing that thing you said you'll

685
00:38:52,890 --> 00:38:55,290
Speaker 1: never miss very easy? And I'm not going to lie. Like,

686
00:38:55,310 --> 00:38:59,379
Speaker 1: there was a moment where I was like, man, you know,

687
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:00,900
Speaker 1: I did commit this. Like, I want to be a

688
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:06,259
Speaker 1: person of integrity. And then what I realized is canceling

689
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:11,060
Speaker 1: something so that you can be present for your kids

690
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: is being a person of integrity. Right? I'm being a

691
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,780
Speaker 1: person of integrity. I know that my number one ministry

692
00:39:20,580 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: is to my family. And for me, to not show

693
00:39:26,100 --> 00:39:28,890
Speaker 1: up for my daughter's championship softball game because I have

694
00:39:28,910 --> 00:39:34,029
Speaker 1: a ministry opportunity. is lacking, I think, integrity. So no, no,

695
00:39:34,210 --> 00:39:38,089
Speaker 1: actually canceling and letting them know as soon as I

696
00:39:38,110 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 1: found out that I wasn't going to make it. That's

697
00:39:40,780 --> 00:39:43,660
Speaker 1: being a person of integrity. And that's saying I'm not

698
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:47,029
Speaker 1: going to cross that Rubicon. Right. You know, and so

699
00:39:47,110 --> 00:39:48,910
Speaker 1: all that to say is like, you know, you have

700
00:39:48,950 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 1: those things like you have that thing. I'm never going

701
00:39:50,739 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: to drink and drive until you started. I had that thing.

702
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:54,540
Speaker 1: I'm never going to drink and drive until I started. Right.

703
00:39:55,140 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 1: And yet and yet then you justify you're like, well,

704
00:39:57,300 --> 00:39:59,180
Speaker 1: I'm going to go to different ones because, you know,

705
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,180
Speaker 1: if I really had a problem, I don't want them

706
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:02,549
Speaker 1: to think I have a problem because I don't have

707
00:40:02,570 --> 00:40:04,950
Speaker 1: a problem. Right. But I know if I show up,

708
00:40:05,030 --> 00:40:06,989
Speaker 1: you know, you know, every day at this place, they're

709
00:40:07,010 --> 00:40:08,390
Speaker 1: going to think I have a problem. And so I

710
00:40:08,430 --> 00:40:11,730
Speaker 1: just think it's, you know, the mental gymnastics that we

711
00:40:11,750 --> 00:40:14,220
Speaker 1: play to just move the goalposts all the time and

712
00:40:14,260 --> 00:40:19,169
Speaker 1: then to convince ourselves. I'm fine. I don't want people

713
00:40:19,210 --> 00:40:21,630
Speaker 1: getting the wrong idea that I have a problem.

714
00:40:21,969 --> 00:40:23,270
Speaker 3: It's just ridiculous.

715
00:40:23,530 --> 00:40:25,310
Speaker 1: So I'm sorry, but I had to take that little

716
00:40:25,390 --> 00:40:28,730
Speaker 1: side note. So you're drinking and driving. You're starting to

717
00:40:28,770 --> 00:40:32,660
Speaker 1: go to different liquor stores. And where does it kind

718
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: of progress? We'll be right back after this.

719
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, so.

720
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,410
Speaker 2: It's a great segue to what you said about like these,

721
00:40:44,610 --> 00:40:48,350
Speaker 2: these boundaries, these Rubicons, like these lines getting crossed, you know,

722
00:40:48,390 --> 00:40:50,370
Speaker 2: and not being able to show up for things that

723
00:40:50,390 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 2: are important, you know, and, uh, so one day I've

724
00:40:55,219 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 2: had enough and I go into the bathroom of my

725
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,779
Speaker 2: in-laws house and I go into the bathtub and I

726
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,900
Speaker 2: run the water and I swallow a bunch of pills

727
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,420
Speaker 2: and I drink out of this rum bottle that I

728
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:13,500
Speaker 2: had and lights out and I wake up in the hospital.

729
00:41:14,610 --> 00:41:18,190
Speaker 2: And they're like talking to me and I come out

730
00:41:18,230 --> 00:41:23,170
Speaker 2: of it. And one thing, my mother-in-law found me with

731
00:41:23,210 --> 00:41:26,850
Speaker 2: my wife, who's eight months pregnant. Like they found me out. Like,

732
00:41:26,870 --> 00:41:28,350
Speaker 2: you know, I had to be taken to the hospital,

733
00:41:28,489 --> 00:41:31,310
Speaker 2: the whole thing. And they're like, did you try to

734
00:41:31,350 --> 00:41:33,810
Speaker 2: kill yourself? I'm like, no, I would never do that.

735
00:41:34,690 --> 00:41:36,730
Speaker 2: Like you've been saying that you tried to kill yourself

736
00:41:36,790 --> 00:41:39,370
Speaker 2: like the past. Like I was in a blackout. I

737
00:41:39,410 --> 00:41:42,149
Speaker 2: was like talking about killing myself while not even knowing

738
00:41:42,170 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 2: that I tried to kill myself. Wow. So when that happens,

739
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:48,900
Speaker 2: they put you into a place. They put me in

740
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:52,140
Speaker 2: a place called Princeton House. And it's it's nonvoluntary. Like

741
00:41:52,300 --> 00:41:55,149
Speaker 2: they're either you're going on your own. You could say

742
00:41:55,370 --> 00:41:59,630
Speaker 2: you'll go or you're going. But regardless, you're going. And

743
00:42:00,070 --> 00:42:03,190
Speaker 2: they put on a 24 hour suicide watch for like

744
00:42:03,330 --> 00:42:03,690
Speaker 2: a week.

745
00:42:04,170 --> 00:42:07,590
Speaker 3: And I'm in there and my wife's about to give birth.

746
00:42:08,570 --> 00:42:11,590
Speaker 2: So I tell them that I have to leave because

747
00:42:11,710 --> 00:42:13,310
Speaker 2: my wife's going to give birth. I don't want to

748
00:42:13,330 --> 00:42:15,689
Speaker 2: miss my first child being born. So my wife picks

749
00:42:15,730 --> 00:42:19,270
Speaker 2: me up and she tells me that she's been praying

750
00:42:19,330 --> 00:42:23,810
Speaker 2: for me and that my mother-in-law, who's a firm believer,

751
00:42:23,850 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 2: was praying for me as well with a prayer group

752
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:32,299
Speaker 2: that's all over the world. I completely disregard it.

753
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 3: I'm like, cool. They told me I could drink a

754
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 3: little bit. She's like, what?

755
00:42:38,110 --> 00:42:39,690
Speaker 2: When the reality was, they told me if I keep

756
00:42:39,730 --> 00:42:42,310
Speaker 2: drinking the way I'm drinking, like I'm risking my life.

757
00:42:45,310 --> 00:42:48,210
Speaker 2: So I keep drinking after that, you know, and I'll

758
00:42:48,250 --> 00:42:53,170
Speaker 2: lead up to like where the, when Jesus came and, and,

759
00:42:53,489 --> 00:42:55,380
Speaker 2: you know, you know, Jesus did for me what I

760
00:42:55,390 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 2: couldn't do for myself and what professionals couldn't.

761
00:42:57,920 --> 00:42:58,500
Speaker 1: Do for me either.

762
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 2: You know, it didn't matter if I was in front

763
00:43:00,700 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 2: of a psychiatrist, it didn't matter if I was in

764
00:43:02,460 --> 00:43:05,779
Speaker 2: front of a doctor who specializes in addiction treatment, none

765
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:06,760
Speaker 2: of that could get me sober.

766
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:09,549
Speaker 3: You know, none of that could come in. So my.

767
00:43:12,070 --> 00:43:15,250
Speaker 2: Daughter's born and I'm still a disaster. And we move

768
00:43:15,270 --> 00:43:17,130
Speaker 2: into this apartment in Red Bank, New Jersey.

769
00:43:17,810 --> 00:43:20,509
Speaker 1: Well, you said your daughter was born. I think you

770
00:43:20,550 --> 00:43:24,739
Speaker 1: had told me at one point, take me to that moment, right,

771
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: where you're in the hospital and your daughter's being born.

772
00:43:28,660 --> 00:43:31,739
Speaker 1: Tell that story. We'll be right back after this.

773
00:43:34,780 --> 00:43:38,339
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm... I'm in and out of like, not

774
00:43:38,380 --> 00:43:39,780
Speaker 2: a blackout, but I'm drunk.

775
00:43:40,460 --> 00:43:42,450
Speaker 3: And, uh, the, the moments are coming in and out

776
00:43:42,469 --> 00:43:43,070
Speaker 3: of my brain.

777
00:43:43,110 --> 00:43:45,630
Speaker 2: Like, so like my wife's gets getting up a door, uh,

778
00:43:45,930 --> 00:43:49,410
Speaker 2: epidural and I'm like drinking in the, in the chair, uh,

779
00:43:50,950 --> 00:43:53,330
Speaker 2: which she thought she knew I was doing it, but she,

780
00:43:53,410 --> 00:43:55,290
Speaker 2: at this point, everybody was like, he's going to do

781
00:43:55,310 --> 00:43:56,890
Speaker 2: what he's going to do. Like, there's no stopping him.

782
00:43:57,270 --> 00:43:58,660
Speaker 2: You know, I thought I was hiding it from her.

783
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 2: So I had it in a, in a, in a

784
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:06,010
Speaker 2: water bottle, you know? And, um, So then the nurses

785
00:44:06,050 --> 00:44:08,150
Speaker 2: come in and there's this like, you know, she's going

786
00:44:08,570 --> 00:44:10,810
Speaker 2: to have the baby and they're giving her, they're breathing

787
00:44:10,830 --> 00:44:13,310
Speaker 2: with her and they're like, hold her hand. And I'm

788
00:44:13,350 --> 00:44:15,270
Speaker 2: holding my wife's hand and I'm like in and out

789
00:44:15,290 --> 00:44:19,129
Speaker 2: of like consciousness, basically. Like I'm not there, you know?

790
00:44:19,150 --> 00:44:23,140
Speaker 2: And when my daughter was born, I remember one of

791
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 2: the nurses looking at me being like, this guy is

792
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,940
Speaker 2: not right. You know, he's almost to the point where

793
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,380
Speaker 2: should we actually hand him the baby to like hold?

794
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 2: Because I'm kind of wavering around. I don't really remember

795
00:44:37,540 --> 00:44:40,940
Speaker 2: a ton of it, to specific details. But I remember

796
00:44:41,020 --> 00:44:43,529
Speaker 2: that moment where that nurse looked at me like, this

797
00:44:43,570 --> 00:44:44,270
Speaker 2: guy is a mess.

798
00:44:45,510 --> 00:44:50,770
Speaker 3: This guy is not... This poor newborn.

799
00:44:51,130 --> 00:44:54,430
Speaker 2: This is her dad. He's drunk in the emergency room.

800
00:44:54,750 --> 00:45:00,980
Speaker 2: Or in the delivery room. And right after she was born...

801
00:45:01,730 --> 00:45:03,110
Speaker 2: I told my wife I was going for a walk

802
00:45:03,190 --> 00:45:04,609
Speaker 2: and I went right to a liquor store and bought

803
00:45:04,630 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 2: some airplane bottles and drank them.

804
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:18,089
Speaker 1: And yet, I mean, that happens. And is there any

805
00:45:18,219 --> 00:45:21,370
Speaker 1: part of you, maybe in the back of your mind,

806
00:45:21,989 --> 00:45:30,030
Speaker 1: that's saying, dude, dude, like, that's a problem. Or that's

807
00:45:30,070 --> 00:45:35,420
Speaker 1: not normal. Or, or is it just, have you severed

808
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 1: in a sense, all of that?

809
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:40,900
Speaker 3: I like that word severed. It was severed.

810
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,760
Speaker 2: I had no, no inkling of like, this is wrong.

811
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:49,610
Speaker 2: You're a dad now, you know, be, be a, be

812
00:45:49,650 --> 00:45:52,509
Speaker 2: a husband, be a father. Like there was none of that.

813
00:45:52,750 --> 00:45:54,350
Speaker 2: Like it was completely removed.

814
00:45:55,690 --> 00:46:01,490
Speaker 3: Um, you know, and I, and I, it continued that

815
00:46:01,550 --> 00:46:05,529
Speaker 3: way for, you know, my daughter was probably about, I.

816
00:46:08,750 --> 00:46:12,130
Speaker 2: Guess it went on for another like five months of

817
00:46:12,170 --> 00:46:16,070
Speaker 2: that type of behavior where my wife's raising this baby

818
00:46:16,810 --> 00:46:19,830
Speaker 2: by herself, basically, because I'm going out now because now

819
00:46:19,870 --> 00:46:21,310
Speaker 2: I live in red bank and I can go to

820
00:46:21,370 --> 00:46:23,830
Speaker 2: bars and I can go to, and I found out

821
00:46:23,870 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 2: who served, who, who, who, who had Coke, who, where

822
00:46:27,260 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 2: I could get the earliest drink where like I had

823
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:31,760
Speaker 2: it all mapped out. So my day would, would consist

824
00:46:31,820 --> 00:46:36,089
Speaker 2: of this, like going around each day and just like

825
00:46:36,230 --> 00:46:39,730
Speaker 2: bar hopping basically, you know, all day long while my

826
00:46:39,770 --> 00:46:46,129
Speaker 2: wife's home with this baby, my mother-in-law's there, you know, they're, they're, they're, um, they're,

827
00:46:46,190 --> 00:46:50,190
Speaker 2: she's feeding her, she's swaddling her and I'm nowhere to

828
00:46:50,230 --> 00:46:50,609
Speaker 2: be found.

829
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 1: Are you working at this time? Are you still without

830
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:57,140
Speaker 1: a job? Where are you getting the money to buy

831
00:46:57,239 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 1: all this stuff?

832
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:02,460
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. So we were able to save some money

833
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,240
Speaker 3: during COVID. We were living with my in-laws.

834
00:47:04,340 --> 00:47:08,739
Speaker 2: I was working, and I saved some money because I

835
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,259
Speaker 2: didn't have any expenses. I didn't have the apartment expense.

836
00:47:12,940 --> 00:47:17,700
Speaker 2: So I just had savings, and I had access to it.

837
00:47:18,219 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 2: In retrospect, my wife says she would have taken some

838
00:47:20,500 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 2: steps to maybe kind of like not allow me to

839
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:23,620
Speaker 2: have so much access to that.

840
00:47:24,050 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

841
00:47:24,219 --> 00:47:27,410
Speaker 3: But, you know, at the time she was being a

842
00:47:27,710 --> 00:47:28,230
Speaker 3: new mother.

843
00:47:28,410 --> 00:47:30,850
Speaker 1: Yeah. She's raising a kid. And that's what my wife says, too,

844
00:47:30,930 --> 00:47:33,870
Speaker 1: is like, are there things that maybe I could have

845
00:47:33,950 --> 00:47:37,859
Speaker 1: done or whatnot? Like maybe. But she's like, I was

846
00:47:38,020 --> 00:47:42,820
Speaker 1: so focused on raising the kids. And here's what's interesting, Charles.

847
00:47:43,780 --> 00:47:48,670
Speaker 1: I wasn't even as absent as you were. Right. And

848
00:47:48,690 --> 00:47:50,850
Speaker 1: so I think that's an important thing of like, even

849
00:47:50,969 --> 00:47:55,930
Speaker 1: though I wasn't as absent as you were, my wife

850
00:47:56,130 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 1: still was like, my focus is the kids. You're going

851
00:48:00,180 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 1: to do what you're going to do. Any help I

852
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 1: can get is great. But like it becomes this kind

853
00:48:06,060 --> 00:48:11,700
Speaker 1: of tunnel vision of I have to protect. I have

854
00:48:11,739 --> 00:48:15,299
Speaker 1: to nurture. I have to do what you're not going

855
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:22,250
Speaker 1: to do. And. And in that mode, it's like, you're

856
00:48:22,270 --> 00:48:24,149
Speaker 1: able to do, you're only able to do so much.

857
00:48:24,410 --> 00:48:27,390
Speaker 1: You're only able to take care of so much. And

858
00:48:27,430 --> 00:48:29,049
Speaker 1: my wife is like, I had two kids to take

859
00:48:29,090 --> 00:48:33,150
Speaker 1: care of. I couldn't take care of three, you know? Hmm.

860
00:48:34,170 --> 00:48:37,049
Speaker 2: It's the mother lion, you know, like she'll, she'll swat

861
00:48:37,070 --> 00:48:39,620
Speaker 2: at the, at the, at the, at the male lions. They,

862
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 2: they're messing up around the cub, you know, and I

863
00:48:42,739 --> 00:48:46,140
Speaker 2: was messing up around the cub, you know, like, um,

864
00:48:47,770 --> 00:48:50,350
Speaker 2: So this behavior goes on for like, you know, several

865
00:48:50,410 --> 00:48:53,450
Speaker 2: months and my daughter's growing up and she's, I remember

866
00:48:53,469 --> 00:48:58,240
Speaker 2: like the first time she rolled, like I was pouring

867
00:48:58,340 --> 00:49:00,799
Speaker 2: like a drink into the, into my glass and my

868
00:49:00,860 --> 00:49:03,500
Speaker 2: wife's like, you just missed her, but she's rolled. And

869
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:05,739
Speaker 2: I was like, you know, I didn't care. You know, I, uh,

870
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:10,989
Speaker 2: so there's one day, right. That's no different than any

871
00:49:11,030 --> 00:49:14,980
Speaker 2: other day that I can describe. I will I don't

872
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:16,919
Speaker 2: know if I was waking up or I was about

873
00:49:16,940 --> 00:49:19,009
Speaker 2: to like kind of go to sleep It was just

874
00:49:19,070 --> 00:49:24,700
Speaker 2: very very like bluish lighting. Like, so I didn't know

875
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 2: if it was dawn or dusk. I don't, I don't remember,

876
00:49:27,820 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 2: you know, now I can piece it together, but I'm

877
00:49:31,300 --> 00:49:35,140
Speaker 2: laying in bed and like these flashing lights start like

878
00:49:35,180 --> 00:49:38,430
Speaker 2: hitting my face. Like, you know, like if you're in

879
00:49:38,450 --> 00:49:41,469
Speaker 2: a photographer, like your wedding and the photographer comes up

880
00:49:41,489 --> 00:49:42,910
Speaker 2: to you and like starts taking all these pictures and

881
00:49:42,930 --> 00:49:46,290
Speaker 2: it's like, it was like that, like popping it at me.

882
00:49:46,489 --> 00:49:48,890
Speaker 3: Like, and I was completely at peace.

883
00:49:48,910 --> 00:49:52,050
Speaker 2: And I feel the Holy Spirit come.

884
00:49:53,050 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 3: I knew that it was Jesus. I knew that it was,

885
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 3: I knew that it was very clear to me who

886
00:49:57,719 --> 00:49:58,060
Speaker 3: it was.

887
00:49:59,380 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 2: And the Holy Spirit says, this is over.

888
00:50:03,380 --> 00:50:04,420
Speaker 3: You're free from this now.

889
00:50:07,180 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 2: And I get up out of bed and I walk

890
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:12,020
Speaker 2: out into the room and my wife is, and I

891
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 2: tell her this, I say, it's over.

892
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 3: Jesus saves me. And she's like, what?

893
00:50:24,210 --> 00:50:24,910
Speaker 1: Are you drunk?

894
00:50:27,430 --> 00:50:28,029
Speaker 3: Exactly.

895
00:50:29,210 --> 00:50:33,810
Speaker 2: And from that day, I haven't picked up a drink

896
00:50:33,890 --> 00:50:37,420
Speaker 2: or a drug since that moment in time. It was,

897
00:50:37,540 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 2: it was, it was, it was, he took it. He

898
00:50:40,700 --> 00:50:48,700
Speaker 2: took it from me, my burden, my sickness. He did

899
00:50:48,739 --> 00:50:50,450
Speaker 2: for me what I couldn't do for myself and what

900
00:50:50,610 --> 00:50:52,830
Speaker 2: any professional or like, there was no helping me. Only

901
00:50:52,870 --> 00:50:57,690
Speaker 2: Jesus could intervene. It was this divine like moment that

902
00:50:57,730 --> 00:51:02,150
Speaker 2: I had. So now I'll get into like, so the

903
00:51:02,210 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 2: next day, I'm sober now.

904
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 3: My mind's clear. Well, clearing up.

905
00:51:08,820 --> 00:51:12,739
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm stuffing still foggy, but I'm not using

906
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,830
Speaker 2: or drinking. And I go to get coffee at this

907
00:51:16,170 --> 00:51:20,969
Speaker 2: place called Sickles in Red Bank. And I hear this

908
00:51:21,070 --> 00:51:26,430
Speaker 2: guy talking about Jesus. And there's these four guys and

909
00:51:26,450 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 2: they're having a Bible study. And I walk over to

910
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 2: them and I say, hey, like, what are you guys

911
00:51:32,100 --> 00:51:33,779
Speaker 2: talking about? You know, what are you guys doing here?

912
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:35,770
Speaker 2: And they're like, We're having a Bible study, which I

913
00:51:35,910 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 2: never would have done. Like approach these strangers and be like, hey,

914
00:51:38,690 --> 00:51:39,530
Speaker 2: like you're talking about Jesus?

915
00:51:39,570 --> 00:51:45,190
Speaker 3: Like I want in. And it was Armand. Wow.

916
00:51:47,610 --> 00:51:48,180
Speaker 1: Wow.

917
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,660
Speaker 2: And the pastor of Colts Neck and the youth pastor

918
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:55,360
Speaker 2: of Colts Neck Community Church, which now I go to,

919
00:51:55,380 --> 00:51:57,779
Speaker 2: and I actually have a very close relationship with him now.

920
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:00,719
Speaker 1: So you go up to him, what do you say?

921
00:52:01,910 --> 00:52:03,270
Speaker 2: I said, what are you guys up to over here?

922
00:52:03,350 --> 00:52:05,129
Speaker 2: I hear you talking about Jesus. And they're like, yeah,

923
00:52:05,170 --> 00:52:07,170
Speaker 2: we're having a Bible study. And Armand, being the way

924
00:52:07,250 --> 00:52:12,029
Speaker 2: Armand is, he's very engaging. He's very welcoming. He's like,

925
00:52:12,090 --> 00:52:15,350
Speaker 2: sit down. So I sit with them and they're talking

926
00:52:15,370 --> 00:52:19,090
Speaker 2: about scripture and they're talking about what it is to

927
00:52:19,110 --> 00:52:23,140
Speaker 2: be a man, a man of God. And I remember that.

928
00:52:23,739 --> 00:52:27,100
Speaker 2: It was a study called Man.

929
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:29,180
Speaker 3: Warrior of God.

930
00:52:31,070 --> 00:52:36,049
Speaker 2: It's a specific study. And I'm just listening. I didn't

931
00:52:36,070 --> 00:52:38,660
Speaker 2: really say anything. I just listened to them. And then

932
00:52:38,739 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 2: at the end of that, when they were leaving, Armand

933
00:52:42,660 --> 00:52:46,060
Speaker 2: gave me his number and said, text me. I go

934
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 2: to this church called Colesack Community Church. You should check it.

935
00:52:50,820 --> 00:52:52,240
Speaker 3: Out.

936
00:52:52,340 --> 00:52:55,930
Speaker 2: So that Sunday, I tell my wife, I want to

937
00:52:55,950 --> 00:53:02,310
Speaker 2: go to this church. She's like, who are you? you

938
00:53:02,330 --> 00:53:07,330
Speaker 2: want to take me to church? It's like this complete

939
00:53:07,330 --> 00:53:11,450
Speaker 2: 360 turn.

940
00:53:09,950 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 3: Of a person.

941
00:53:11,260 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 2: That's when I knew it was the Holy Spirit too

942
00:53:13,219 --> 00:53:18,580
Speaker 2: because my whole demeanor and I stopped cursing for the

943
00:53:18,620 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 2: most part after that happened. I obviously quit drinking. I

944
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:26,839
Speaker 2: quit using drugs. I'm seeking now. I want to be

945
00:53:26,860 --> 00:53:29,990
Speaker 2: closer to Jesus. I want to be in his presence

946
00:53:30,010 --> 00:53:32,190
Speaker 2: that he saved me. Like now I want to be

947
00:53:32,230 --> 00:53:34,810
Speaker 2: able to just, I was like on fire. They say

948
00:53:35,050 --> 00:53:36,750
Speaker 2: they call it being on fire for the Lord. You know,

949
00:53:36,770 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 2: like we're going to church now and we're going to

950
00:53:39,140 --> 00:53:41,940
Speaker 2: go to church every Sunday and we go to Coleside community.

951
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:42,760
Speaker 3: We knew it right away.

952
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:46,219
Speaker 2: We heard pastor Chris Durkin speaking. And like, my wife

953
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 2: was like, we're in, and this is, this is the,

954
00:53:47,820 --> 00:53:51,430
Speaker 2: this is our home now. And we've been going ever since.

955
00:53:54,250 --> 00:53:57,469
Speaker 1: So first of all, man, there's a couple of things

956
00:53:57,610 --> 00:54:04,129
Speaker 1: I want to say. Um, people listening, right? Like, I've

957
00:54:04,210 --> 00:54:08,660
Speaker 1: said this and I love that I'm now talking to

958
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 1: someone where this can be true. Is that, listen, can

959
00:54:14,500 --> 00:54:22,219
Speaker 1: Jesus miraculously take your addiction, your struggle away? Yes. Does

960
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:22,759
Speaker 1: he do that?

961
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:23,980
Speaker 3: Yes.

962
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:27,719
Speaker 1: I can say with confidence, talking to Charles, yes. Now,

963
00:54:28,230 --> 00:54:30,509
Speaker 1: Is that everyone's story? In fact, I would say it's

964
00:54:30,570 --> 00:54:37,270
Speaker 1: not most people's story. Right. And yet what I'm curious

965
00:54:37,530 --> 00:54:43,090
Speaker 1: about is, OK, you have this kind of miraculous encounter.

966
00:54:44,739 --> 00:54:50,799
Speaker 1: But what has it looked like since then? Because you identified, right,

967
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:53,759
Speaker 1: like as you started telling your story, you identified, you said, hey,

968
00:54:53,780 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 1: there was escapism, there was fear, there was whatnot. what

969
00:54:57,700 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 1: has it looked like that even though the desire is

970
00:55:02,820 --> 00:55:06,239
Speaker 1: literally taken away in a moment, in an instant, I

971
00:55:06,260 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 1: think some people hear that and they're like, all right,

972
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:11,140
Speaker 1: that's it. Like you haven't had to work at it. There's,

973
00:55:11,180 --> 00:55:16,049
Speaker 1: there's been, you know, great. And, but it sounds like

974
00:55:16,370 --> 00:55:21,229
Speaker 1: you've still done work, if you will. You've still dug

975
00:55:21,290 --> 00:55:27,310
Speaker 1: into the roots. You've still engaged in discipleship and sanctification.

976
00:55:27,350 --> 00:55:30,709
Speaker 1: So what, even though you have this road to Damascus

977
00:55:30,850 --> 00:55:39,980
Speaker 1: miracle moment, what has chasing gospel-centered recovery looked like in

978
00:55:40,020 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 1: your life since then?

979
00:55:43,219 --> 00:55:46,500
Speaker 3: Great question. So, fellowship.

980
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:54,270
Speaker 2: Sober fellowship, sober Christian fellowship, sober fellowship, you know, working

981
00:55:54,890 --> 00:55:58,850
Speaker 2: a program that teaches me that life's not about me

982
00:55:58,870 --> 00:56:05,130
Speaker 2: and that my rooted, you know, like they say sometimes

983
00:56:05,190 --> 00:56:07,840
Speaker 2: like alcohol and drugs are yet but a symptom of

984
00:56:07,910 --> 00:56:08,720
Speaker 2: something else.

985
00:56:08,780 --> 00:56:09,320
Speaker 1: Absolutely.

986
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:10,580
Speaker 3: That's there.

987
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:18,060
Speaker 2: And yes, Christ removed the obsession. And my desire drink

988
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:22,020
Speaker 2: is gone. But that means I have to continue to

989
00:56:22,060 --> 00:56:27,020
Speaker 2: put work into my sobriety. It's not just like I

990
00:56:27,060 --> 00:56:27,719
Speaker 2: was like, all right.

991
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:30,620
Speaker 3: I'm good now. Like every day I pray.

992
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:35,360
Speaker 2: I'm around other people that have these similar struggles. I

993
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:41,900
Speaker 2: work to help them. I'm active in the sober community.

994
00:56:41,950 --> 00:56:46,709
Speaker 3: Like I said, I go with Armand to the– the

995
00:56:46,810 --> 00:56:47,550
Speaker 3: Asbury mission.

996
00:56:47,950 --> 00:56:51,299
Speaker 2: I've done other podcasts that I've spoken about this to

997
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:52,660
Speaker 2: try to get this story out there.

998
00:56:52,739 --> 00:56:53,839
Speaker 3: And like that, there is hope.

999
00:56:54,380 --> 00:56:56,660
Speaker 2: Like at the end of the day, like, yes, I

1000
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 2: had this, I love how you showed the world to

1001
00:56:58,160 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 2: the mass this moment.

1002
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:01,720
Speaker 3: At the end of the day is like my story.

1003
00:57:01,780 --> 00:57:03,710
Speaker 3: I just want to bring that as bad as it

1004
00:57:03,750 --> 00:57:06,350
Speaker 3: can get. There is always hope.

1005
00:57:07,870 --> 00:57:12,969
Speaker 2: So to hold on because Christ will come and like,

1006
00:57:14,500 --> 00:57:17,180
Speaker 2: it may not be that white light moment that I had, but,

1007
00:57:17,420 --> 00:57:21,890
Speaker 2: but if you, if you're open to that and you're,

1008
00:57:22,030 --> 00:57:26,450
Speaker 2: and you're, you're available to him in that way, I

1009
00:57:26,490 --> 00:57:29,010
Speaker 2: believe that he'll be able to remove that and to

1010
00:57:29,070 --> 00:57:31,290
Speaker 2: help you get into a better sense of life.

1011
00:57:31,690 --> 00:57:33,390
Speaker 3: It may not be like this miracle.

1012
00:57:33,410 --> 00:57:37,380
Speaker 2: Uh, and then now it's all roses and, and, and, and, and,

1013
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 2: you know, whatever, but, but it will get better if

1014
00:57:43,100 --> 00:57:43,660
Speaker 2: you hold on.

1015
00:57:45,180 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 1: I think what I love about Jesus, one of the

1016
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:51,570
Speaker 1: many things I love about Jesus, right, is that, and

1017
00:57:51,590 --> 00:57:55,150
Speaker 1: this is an encouragement to those listening, is that he

1018
00:57:55,250 --> 00:57:57,450
Speaker 1: reaches you how you need to be reached.

1019
00:57:58,110 --> 00:57:58,790
Speaker 3: Yes, right.

1020
00:57:59,350 --> 00:58:03,790
Speaker 1: And the problem, though, is that too many of us

1021
00:58:04,970 --> 00:58:07,610
Speaker 1: latch on to how he has reached someone else and say, well,

1022
00:58:07,630 --> 00:58:10,430
Speaker 1: that's the way he's got to reach me, right? Right.

1023
00:58:10,660 --> 00:58:15,740
Speaker 1: So maybe you're listening to this And maybe you've heard

1024
00:58:15,780 --> 00:58:21,010
Speaker 1: my story and you've said, you know, my quote unquote

1025
00:58:21,050 --> 00:58:24,110
Speaker 1: come to Jesus moment is as I'm swimming in my

1026
00:58:24,170 --> 00:58:29,630
Speaker 1: own feces, you know, drunk at 1 a.m. on South Beach,

1027
00:58:29,670 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 1: Miami in the ocean, right? If you're listening to this, man,

1028
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:40,160
Speaker 1: I hope that you have not said, that's how Jesus

1029
00:58:40,180 --> 00:58:43,260
Speaker 1: has to reach me. Or, well, I can keep doing

1030
00:58:43,300 --> 00:58:46,540
Speaker 1: what I'm doing. And I'll know it's time to stop.

1031
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:49,160
Speaker 1: Or I know I have a problem when Jesus reaches

1032
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:52,180
Speaker 1: me like he reached John. I hope you haven't listened

1033
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 1: to Charles' story and said, great. Now I know that

1034
00:58:57,780 --> 00:58:59,860
Speaker 1: Jesus can work miracles like that. And so I'm going

1035
00:58:59,890 --> 00:59:03,410
Speaker 1: to keep doing what I'm doing. And if Jesus really

1036
00:59:03,430 --> 00:59:05,830
Speaker 1: wants to reach me, um he'll reach me like that

1037
00:59:07,110 --> 00:59:12,420
Speaker 1: but maybe the way that jesus knows and and actually

1038
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:16,660
Speaker 1: if you're if you're that person who hears my story

1039
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:19,640
Speaker 1: who hears charles story and says oh well those are

1040
00:59:19,660 --> 00:59:22,260
Speaker 1: the ways that jesus has to reach me um i'm

1041
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 1: gonna go out on a limb and say you actually

1042
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:27,419
Speaker 1: probably need to be reached in a different way right

1043
00:59:27,460 --> 00:59:30,020
Speaker 1: like you need to be reached in a way where

1044
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:34,420
Speaker 1: you don't get to decide how Jesus reaches you. You're

1045
00:59:34,460 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 1: going to probably have to be reached in a way

1046
00:59:36,820 --> 00:59:46,330
Speaker 1: that requires these acts of surrender, long obedience in the

1047
00:59:46,370 --> 00:59:49,610
Speaker 1: same direction, as Eugene Peterson says. If you are sitting

1048
00:59:49,630 --> 00:59:56,450
Speaker 1: here thinking, I'm going to put a stipulation on how

1049
00:59:56,530 --> 00:59:58,130
Speaker 1: Jesus has to reach me. It has to be this way.

1050
00:59:59,050 --> 01:00:00,830
Speaker 1: Chances are, I don't think he's probably going to reach

1051
01:00:00,850 --> 01:00:02,390
Speaker 1: you that way because that's.

1052
01:00:02,310 --> 01:00:02,910
Speaker 3: A lot of pride.

1053
01:00:03,210 --> 01:00:04,430
Speaker 1: It's a lot of pride on your part.

1054
01:00:04,450 --> 01:00:06,490
Speaker 3: I agree.

1055
01:00:06,590 --> 01:00:08,820
Speaker 2: And I believe that there's a spiritual channel that can

1056
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:11,459
Speaker 2: be blocked. So like, I believe that like when we're,

1057
01:00:11,500 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 2: when we're using, we're drinking and we're like, the communication

1058
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 2: is like wifi going down. Like it's like in and out,

1059
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:20,920
Speaker 2: like you're not able to connect, you know, he's, he's like,

1060
01:00:21,780 --> 01:00:25,030
Speaker 2: I always say like, God never, Jesus never moved away

1061
01:00:25,070 --> 01:00:29,210
Speaker 2: from me. I moved away from him. He continued to

1062
01:00:29,250 --> 01:00:32,130
Speaker 2: pursue me through this. And yes, I'm 100% on board

1063
01:00:32,270 --> 01:00:36,430
Speaker 2: with what you're saying. It's like, it doesn't mean it

1064
01:00:36,490 --> 01:00:38,490
Speaker 2: has to be this way of this like white light,

1065
01:00:39,430 --> 01:00:47,850
Speaker 2: immediate removal of the obsession per se. But there is

1066
01:00:47,970 --> 01:00:49,970
Speaker 2: hope as dark as you can get.

1067
01:00:50,010 --> 01:00:50,090
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1068
01:00:50,770 --> 01:00:53,740
Speaker 3: That there will be a way out if you hold on.

1069
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 2: And, you know, and Lord willing, you're able to establish

1070
01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:01,420
Speaker 2: relationship with Christ before, you know, how it was established

1071
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:05,340
Speaker 2: with us. You know, like, you know, it's, like I said,

1072
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:07,300
Speaker 2: when we first started talking, like, this is just what

1073
01:01:07,340 --> 01:01:10,840
Speaker 2: happened to me. And I hope that, you know, people

1074
01:01:10,860 --> 01:01:12,860
Speaker 2: will listen to it and say, like, hey, like, I

1075
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:13,860
Speaker 2: can hold on for one more day.

1076
01:01:16,300 --> 01:01:19,200
Speaker 1: So I think, I love that you said that. because

1077
01:01:19,220 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 1: i think one of the encouragements that i especially want

1078
01:01:23,220 --> 01:01:26,980
Speaker 1: to draw out from your story is for loved ones

1079
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:31,070
Speaker 1: um you know we have a i host a sunday

1080
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:37,890
Speaker 1: night online um recovery call open to anyone um and

1081
01:01:37,910 --> 01:01:44,890
Speaker 1: well at this point um is we have we have

1082
01:01:44,910 --> 01:01:50,050
Speaker 1: people who struggle right who are um active in their addiction.

1083
01:01:50,570 --> 01:01:53,110
Speaker 1: We also have loved ones who are just trying to

1084
01:01:53,130 --> 01:02:01,310
Speaker 1: find hope. And I think the hardest emails I get, Charles,

1085
01:02:03,790 --> 01:02:07,250
Speaker 1: are actually not from the strugglers. The hardest emails I

1086
01:02:07,270 --> 01:02:11,030
Speaker 1: get are from the husband or the wife or the

1087
01:02:11,110 --> 01:02:17,530
Speaker 1: parent of someone who is saying, I don't know what

1088
01:02:17,570 --> 01:02:22,980
Speaker 1: else to do, and I'm losing hope, right? And so,

1089
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:26,620
Speaker 1: you know, there's been people on those Sunday night calls,

1090
01:02:26,860 --> 01:02:30,180
Speaker 1: one of them recently, that's like, I don't know how

1091
01:02:30,220 --> 01:02:32,580
Speaker 1: much longer I can hold on because I'm not seeing

1092
01:02:32,900 --> 01:02:40,840
Speaker 1: any progress, right? There is no admission or there is admission,

1093
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:43,030
Speaker 1: but at this point, it's just like, that's just who

1094
01:02:43,090 --> 01:02:44,750
Speaker 1: I am and it's what I'm going to do, right?

1095
01:02:46,250 --> 01:02:51,730
Speaker 1: And yet, I think what your story shows is that

1096
01:02:51,810 --> 01:02:55,770
Speaker 1: there can be that miraculous moment. There can be, like,

1097
01:02:55,810 --> 01:02:58,490
Speaker 1: Jesus can show up in that way. Does he every time?

1098
01:02:58,510 --> 01:02:59,470
Speaker 3: No.

1099
01:03:00,050 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 1: And I wish I knew exactly why. I wish I

1100
01:03:05,900 --> 01:03:10,040
Speaker 1: could offer that comfort. I can't. You know, there's just

1101
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:14,450
Speaker 1: a general, like, There are some people the Lord decides

1102
01:03:14,490 --> 01:03:17,490
Speaker 1: to intervene and there are some people that aren't. And

1103
01:03:18,390 --> 01:03:21,530
Speaker 1: yet I know he does and can in the way

1104
01:03:21,990 --> 01:03:26,880
Speaker 1: that he did for you. And so I pray that

1105
01:03:26,910 --> 01:03:28,220
Speaker 1: if you're listening to this and you're a friend or

1106
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:31,400
Speaker 1: family member, that part of what you take from Charles'

1107
01:03:31,420 --> 01:03:36,860
Speaker 1: story is that even when it seems like there is

1108
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:41,410
Speaker 1: no hope, there is hope. that christ can and will

1109
01:03:41,430 --> 01:03:48,090
Speaker 1: intervene and um no matter how dire it looks or

1110
01:03:48,410 --> 01:03:52,960
Speaker 1: is um that is the god that is alive and

1111
01:03:53,020 --> 01:03:54,940
Speaker 1: active so thank you for sharing that.

1112
01:03:55,540 --> 01:04:00,180
Speaker 2: Amen yeah and um and prayer you know like i

1113
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:02,620
Speaker 2: didn't believe in prayer like people were praying for me

1114
01:04:02,660 --> 01:04:05,780
Speaker 2: for sure and like I believe that that made a

1115
01:04:05,820 --> 01:04:09,300
Speaker 2: big difference in it, you know, in this happening to me. Like,

1116
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:14,250
Speaker 2: my mother-in-law's prayers didn't go unanswered, you know? My wife's

1117
01:04:14,310 --> 01:04:16,570
Speaker 2: prayers didn't go unanswered.

1118
01:04:16,590 --> 01:04:19,170
Speaker 3: You know? So, yes, you may be praying and you

1119
01:04:19,210 --> 01:04:21,070
Speaker 3: may not be seeing things happening, but they are.

1120
01:04:21,090 --> 01:04:24,720
Speaker 2: You know, if you're connecting and you're praying and you

1121
01:04:24,860 --> 01:04:28,940
Speaker 2: have this relationship with Jesus and, you know, or you're

1122
01:04:28,980 --> 01:04:32,220
Speaker 2: looking for that, you know, and you're seeking to find that,

1123
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:35,660
Speaker 2: you know, like, I'm a firm believer in the power

1124
01:04:35,700 --> 01:04:39,010
Speaker 2: of prayer after this thing happened to me, for sure.

1125
01:04:40,050 --> 01:04:43,270
Speaker 1: So two questions to wrap up. One, I would just

1126
01:04:43,370 --> 01:04:47,270
Speaker 1: love to know, what does your wife say about that moment?

1127
01:04:48,210 --> 01:04:51,910
Speaker 1: And also, you know, I think with my wife and

1128
01:04:51,950 --> 01:04:54,210
Speaker 1: I know with several other spouses, like one of the

1129
01:04:54,250 --> 01:04:59,410
Speaker 1: big things is trust, right? And you know, I had

1130
01:04:59,430 --> 01:05:01,550
Speaker 1: to build that trust up with my, I'm still building

1131
01:05:01,570 --> 01:05:03,450
Speaker 1: that trust up with my wife. Like it still rears

1132
01:05:03,510 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 1: its ugly head at times. But it helps when I

1133
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:10,540
Speaker 1: was able to show in a sense, like making progress

1134
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 1: or do like, you know, kind of that progression. But

1135
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:15,960
Speaker 1: in some ways I wonder too, your wife, like you

1136
01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:20,240
Speaker 1: come out and how many times did I tell my wife,

1137
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:23,480
Speaker 1: I'm done, I'm done. And maybe you said the same thing.

1138
01:05:23,700 --> 01:05:28,970
Speaker 1: And so now you come out of the and the

1139
01:05:28,990 --> 01:05:33,950
Speaker 1: Holy spirit told you like it's over and I'm done. Like,

1140
01:05:34,180 --> 01:05:37,340
Speaker 1: how did she come to trust you and trust that?

1141
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:40,140
Speaker 1: And what does she say about that? We'll be right

1142
01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:44,260
Speaker 1: back after this. Yeah.

1143
01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:47,260
Speaker 3: Great question. Um, so.

1144
01:05:48,460 --> 01:05:52,700
Speaker 2: She says that my eyes were, were, were clear. Like

1145
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:55,640
Speaker 2: the whites of my eyes were like, were, were what's clear.

1146
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:58,570
Speaker 2: Cause my eyes were always like bloodshot or like, Like

1147
01:05:58,610 --> 01:06:02,590
Speaker 2: they were just very resonated with her. And she could

1148
01:06:02,610 --> 01:06:05,850
Speaker 2: also feel like a difference, you know, like I got,

1149
01:06:05,890 --> 01:06:08,160
Speaker 2: I got, I got like a change in like dimension

1150
01:06:08,220 --> 01:06:12,780
Speaker 2: per se of like, of how my vibe per se was,

1151
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:13,880
Speaker 2: if I can use that word.

1152
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:16,800
Speaker 3: And like you, yes.

1153
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:22,200
Speaker 2: Like my trust with her had to be reestablished, you know, like,

1154
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:23,800
Speaker 2: and I do that and I like to call it

1155
01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:26,810
Speaker 2: being living right sized. And what I mean by that

1156
01:06:26,870 --> 01:06:34,810
Speaker 2: is like, Small examples. When I'm out and about and

1157
01:06:34,850 --> 01:06:36,570
Speaker 2: I go to this grocery store, I put my shopping

1158
01:06:36,590 --> 01:06:39,850
Speaker 2: cart back. I don't just wing it across the parking

1159
01:06:39,890 --> 01:06:41,870
Speaker 2: lot and let it block somebody.

1160
01:06:41,650 --> 01:06:44,160
Speaker 3: Else's spot for them. She sees me do stuff like that.

1161
01:06:44,740 --> 01:06:48,020
Speaker 3: Carry the groceries for the old lady. Do the dishes.

1162
01:06:48,460 --> 01:06:50,520
Speaker 2: Take the dishes out of the dishwasher. Be there for

1163
01:06:50,560 --> 01:06:53,060
Speaker 2: my family. My relationship with Christ.

1164
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:55,300
Speaker 3: Is number one. My relationship with my wife is number two.

1165
01:06:55,850 --> 01:06:57,870
Speaker 3: My relationship with my kids is number three. Amen.

1166
01:06:57,950 --> 01:07:00,470
Speaker 2: And I, and I hold all those myself to a

1167
01:07:00,630 --> 01:07:04,480
Speaker 2: very high accountability and standard to that because what Jesus

1168
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:07,020
Speaker 2: did for me and now my most, the thing that

1169
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:10,520
Speaker 2: drives me the most is being, uh, seeking Christ and

1170
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:12,080
Speaker 2: be as close to him as I can be.

1171
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:12,720
Speaker 1: Yes.

1172
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:14,940
Speaker 3: And being the best father I can be and the

1173
01:07:14,980 --> 01:07:16,640
Speaker 3: best husband I can be. Yes.

1174
01:07:17,340 --> 01:07:19,920
Speaker 2: You know, and, and, and I think that the small

1175
01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:23,450
Speaker 2: things add up to big things. And the fact that

1176
01:07:23,490 --> 01:07:26,430
Speaker 2: I can say to her now, like, Hey, like, hey,

1177
01:07:26,730 --> 01:07:29,130
Speaker 2: I was wrong, you know, to act that way or,

1178
01:07:29,150 --> 01:07:31,730
Speaker 2: you know, that wasn't happening before.

1179
01:07:31,750 --> 01:07:33,930
Speaker 3: It just wasn't.

1180
01:07:35,290 --> 01:07:35,570
Speaker 2: So, I.

1181
01:07:37,170 --> 01:07:40,730
Speaker 1: Love, man, this is so good and here's why. I mean,

1182
01:07:40,910 --> 01:07:47,670
Speaker 1: for many ways, many ways, but I think that when

1183
01:07:47,790 --> 01:07:56,730
Speaker 1: either non-believers, nominal believers, cultural Christians, But even even people

1184
01:07:56,750 --> 01:07:58,490
Speaker 1: have been in the faith a long time that maybe

1185
01:07:58,510 --> 01:08:02,070
Speaker 1: they just struggle in this area where they hear. OK,

1186
01:08:02,120 --> 01:08:05,820
Speaker 1: so Charles started doing this stuff and we turn it

1187
01:08:06,020 --> 01:08:11,860
Speaker 1: into this kind of works based than religion. Oh, so either. Oh,

1188
01:08:11,880 --> 01:08:14,190
Speaker 1: so Charles is telling me then if I just start

1189
01:08:14,270 --> 01:08:18,690
Speaker 1: doing enough little things, I can convince my wife that

1190
01:08:18,729 --> 01:08:22,120
Speaker 1: I'm good. I can convince my wife that everything is

1191
01:08:22,140 --> 01:08:25,930
Speaker 1: fine or I can show Jesus. Hey, look at me.

1192
01:08:26,170 --> 01:08:26,590
Speaker 1: I'm great.

1193
01:08:26,890 --> 01:08:27,110
Speaker 3: Right.

1194
01:08:27,430 --> 01:08:32,229
Speaker 1: But I think what's important is the way that you

1195
01:08:32,270 --> 01:08:36,540
Speaker 1: described it is not I'm going to do these things

1196
01:08:37,060 --> 01:08:41,010
Speaker 1: to earn. It's I do these things now out of

1197
01:08:41,250 --> 01:08:46,370
Speaker 1: gratitude and an opportunity to show what the Lord has

1198
01:08:46,390 --> 01:08:49,050
Speaker 1: done in my life. Whether they respond to it or not,

1199
01:08:49,250 --> 01:08:55,570
Speaker 1: I can't do anything about that, right? But it's obedience

1200
01:08:56,170 --> 01:09:01,300
Speaker 1: not to earn favor, but it's obedience... It's doing these things.

1201
01:09:01,460 --> 01:09:06,420
Speaker 1: It's works that come out of gratitude and a changed heart.

1202
01:09:07,439 --> 01:09:11,519
Speaker 1: And it's like, you know, I find myself doing things

1203
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:16,450
Speaker 1: now that I'm just like, you know, one of my

1204
01:09:16,550 --> 01:09:18,910
Speaker 1: favorite things to do is when I get an email.

1205
01:09:19,210 --> 01:09:21,220
Speaker 1: From someone and they're like, hey, I'm so sorry, but

1206
01:09:21,270 --> 01:09:23,760
Speaker 1: either I like have to cancel or I have to

1207
01:09:23,810 --> 01:09:25,979
Speaker 1: do something or I'm not able to do it. And

1208
01:09:26,020 --> 01:09:31,060
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, listen, so much grace has been

1209
01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:34,080
Speaker 1: extended to me in my life. I am honored to

1210
01:09:34,140 --> 01:09:37,179
Speaker 1: extend this grace to you. Not as a look at me,

1211
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:41,469
Speaker 1: but it's like, of course, I get it.

1212
01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:42,950
Speaker 3: I get it.

1213
01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:43,660
Speaker 1: Right.

1214
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:44,700
Speaker 3: And so.

1215
01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:48,380
Speaker 1: I just I think it's important to pick up on

1216
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:51,100
Speaker 1: what you were saying there. And so if you're listening

1217
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:55,980
Speaker 1: to this, it's it's it's doing those things out of

1218
01:09:56,020 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 1: a true gratitude for what's been done for you. And

1219
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:02,440
Speaker 1: so my point to you, if you're listening and you're like, well,

1220
01:10:02,820 --> 01:10:06,420
Speaker 1: if your mind is going directly to how can I

1221
01:10:06,520 --> 01:10:09,860
Speaker 1: do these things to earn? I would say what you

1222
01:10:09,930 --> 01:10:16,009
Speaker 1: need to focus on. is marinating and truly now understanding

1223
01:10:16,050 --> 01:10:18,150
Speaker 1: like your first step is not to do all the things.

1224
01:10:18,590 --> 01:10:21,600
Speaker 1: Your first step is to, how do I understand grace better?

1225
01:10:22,180 --> 01:10:24,920
Speaker 1: How do I understand what's been given and done, given

1226
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:28,660
Speaker 1: to me and done for me so that I can

1227
01:10:28,780 --> 01:10:34,830
Speaker 1: do the things out from a different place? The last

1228
01:10:34,890 --> 01:10:38,630
Speaker 1: question is, and maybe in some ways you've kind of

1229
01:10:38,689 --> 01:10:41,800
Speaker 1: answered this even with that last But I would just

1230
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:45,180
Speaker 1: be curious. So how long have you been clean and sober?

1231
01:10:45,340 --> 01:10:48,800
Speaker 1: And then what does life look like now?

1232
01:10:50,310 --> 01:10:56,170
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I've been clean and sober since January 2022.

1233
01:10:56,170 --> 01:11:00,530
Speaker 2: So I have four years plus the sobriety. My life

1234
01:11:00,570 --> 01:11:05,920
Speaker 2: today is well beyond my wildest dreams. You know, walking

1235
01:11:05,939 --> 01:11:08,939
Speaker 2: with the Lord has shown me a way to just

1236
01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:13,570
Speaker 2: really in all areas of my life, get myself in

1237
01:11:13,710 --> 01:11:16,490
Speaker 2: a position of being the best version of myself that

1238
01:11:16,510 --> 01:11:16,950
Speaker 2: I can be.

1239
01:11:17,990 --> 01:11:19,880
Speaker 3: And that can only happen if I'm sober.

1240
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:25,439
Speaker 1: You said in, I think even just the introduction about

1241
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:30,840
Speaker 1: why Jesus has been so important to your, not just sobriety,

1242
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:33,280
Speaker 1: but your life. And we've seen that, right? I mean,

1243
01:11:33,400 --> 01:11:36,290
Speaker 1: literally there's kind of this, like I've called it that

1244
01:11:36,330 --> 01:11:41,400
Speaker 1: road to Damascus moment. But even since then, I think,

1245
01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:47,560
Speaker 1: what has it looked like and what has the importance

1246
01:11:47,740 --> 01:11:52,440
Speaker 1: been in your life to pursuing Jesus in order to

1247
01:11:52,540 --> 01:11:56,589
Speaker 1: maintain sobriety and the life that he's called you to?

1248
01:11:57,130 --> 01:11:59,550
Speaker 1: How has that looked and factored in?

1249
01:12:01,070 --> 01:12:05,490
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I believe that, so my life is centered

1250
01:12:05,550 --> 01:12:06,370
Speaker 2: around Christ now.

1251
01:12:07,210 --> 01:12:10,650
Speaker 3: My marriage is centered around Christ. My kids are.

1252
01:12:11,450 --> 01:12:13,210
Speaker 2: Very, you know, as much as we can have them

1253
01:12:13,229 --> 01:12:19,540
Speaker 2: in the word and being, you know, centered in that way. Like,

1254
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:22,340
Speaker 2: that's the way that I live my life now. And

1255
01:12:22,540 --> 01:12:25,800
Speaker 2: being somebody that's lived their lives in two different buckets,

1256
01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:32,950
Speaker 2: per se, of one, really the non-believer, the self-centered, selfish,

1257
01:12:33,850 --> 01:12:35,530
Speaker 2: just do what I want to do whenever I want

1258
01:12:35,570 --> 01:12:38,090
Speaker 2: to do it. to the person who's like, you know what?

1259
01:12:38,890 --> 01:12:40,290
Speaker 2: I'm going to extend my hand out and help the

1260
01:12:40,310 --> 01:12:42,990
Speaker 2: guy who needs help. Like, I'm going to be there

1261
01:12:43,110 --> 01:12:46,220
Speaker 2: for like, uh, the person that, that, that can't help

1262
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:49,400
Speaker 2: themselves and try to be that way. So like he

1263
01:12:49,460 --> 01:12:51,900
Speaker 2: says to go out and make disciples, like.

1264
01:12:53,180 --> 01:12:54,820
Speaker 3: In a way, my, my.

1265
01:12:56,790 --> 01:13:00,150
Speaker 2: Focus is to be able to, as much like you

1266
01:13:00,210 --> 01:13:02,729
Speaker 2: is to help the sober community. Like, I think that's

1267
01:13:02,790 --> 01:13:06,970
Speaker 2: a lot of like where my, my ambition and my,

1268
01:13:07,229 --> 01:13:10,809
Speaker 2: my passion is now, because at first it was hard

1269
01:13:10,830 --> 01:13:12,350
Speaker 2: for me to tell you what I told you today.

1270
01:13:13,170 --> 01:13:14,140
Speaker 3: It was very boring.

1271
01:13:14,150 --> 01:13:18,400
Speaker 2: We come out very like, you know, I wasn't comfortable,

1272
01:13:18,740 --> 01:13:21,250
Speaker 2: you know, explaining this, you know, the way that I,

1273
01:13:21,380 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 2: I've been able to do it today. And a lot,

1274
01:13:24,220 --> 01:13:26,380
Speaker 2: you know, based on how our, our chemistry and like,

1275
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:28,920
Speaker 2: you know, our conversation and a lot of it's like that.

1276
01:13:28,979 --> 01:13:30,140
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is what happened.

1277
01:13:30,180 --> 01:13:31,400
Speaker 2: And this is what I want to be able to

1278
01:13:31,439 --> 01:13:34,290
Speaker 2: broadcast is that, you know, you can get through it.

1279
01:13:34,540 --> 01:13:39,290
Speaker 3: Family members, struggling people, you can get through it.

1280
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:41,680
Speaker 1: Why was it hard? Why was it hard for you

1281
01:13:41,700 --> 01:13:44,900
Speaker 1: to share, share and, and not just the story, but

1282
01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:45,460
Speaker 1: how you shared it?

1283
01:13:47,200 --> 01:13:53,689
Speaker 3: Um, I think that's being comfortable and not being embarrassed.

1284
01:13:54,810 --> 01:13:56,430
Speaker 2: You know, a little bit of what I've talked about

1285
01:13:56,510 --> 01:13:58,530
Speaker 2: is it could be embarrassing, you know, like the thing

1286
01:13:58,550 --> 01:14:02,420
Speaker 2: in the emergency room, the, the overdose in the bathtub

1287
01:14:02,460 --> 01:14:05,900
Speaker 2: and being found, like, these are things that I wouldn't normally, like,

1288
01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:08,120
Speaker 2: want to just be speaking about openly.

1289
01:14:08,810 --> 01:14:13,830
Speaker 3: But I feel like that Jesus.

1290
01:14:14,710 --> 01:14:16,470
Speaker 2: Is working through me and being able to have the

1291
01:14:16,510 --> 01:14:19,290
Speaker 2: courage to come up and say that. And also another

1292
01:14:19,450 --> 01:14:23,930
Speaker 2: segue to that is, like, don't be embarrassed of, like,

1293
01:14:23,970 --> 01:14:27,090
Speaker 2: what's going on with us. You know, like, we're struggling

1294
01:14:27,110 --> 01:14:29,510
Speaker 2: people and, like, things happen to us. You know, like

1295
01:14:29,550 --> 01:14:35,270
Speaker 2: you shared, like in South Beach, like, you know, it

1296
01:14:35,650 --> 01:14:37,330
Speaker 2: is what it is, but it doesn't mean it has

1297
01:14:37,350 --> 01:14:38,090
Speaker 2: to stay that way.

1298
01:14:40,490 --> 01:14:46,010
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I just, I take from Paul, I'm

1299
01:14:46,070 --> 01:14:48,410
Speaker 1: inspired by Paul, right? People are like, why do you

1300
01:14:48,510 --> 01:14:51,639
Speaker 1: use the term alcoholic, right? Because even I talk about

1301
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:54,460
Speaker 1: in my book how initially that's one of the reasons

1302
01:14:54,500 --> 01:14:56,020
Speaker 1: I didn't do AA. I didn't want to sit there

1303
01:14:57,010 --> 01:14:58,970
Speaker 1: And have to say every time that I'm an alcoholic

1304
01:14:59,010 --> 01:15:01,210
Speaker 1: and like, it's in the title of your book. And

1305
01:15:01,250 --> 01:15:06,930
Speaker 1: I say, yes, it is. Because it's because the way

1306
01:15:06,970 --> 01:15:10,870
Speaker 1: that I use it is as a description and not

1307
01:15:10,910 --> 01:15:14,530
Speaker 1: an identity statement. Right. And so I look at Paul

1308
01:15:15,470 --> 01:15:20,150
Speaker 1: and Paul is constantly reminding all of us of who

1309
01:15:20,189 --> 01:15:23,010
Speaker 1: he was and what he did. He doesn't run from it.

1310
01:15:23,380 --> 01:15:27,309
Speaker 1: In fact, he boasts in his weaknesses. Right. And that's

1311
01:15:27,330 --> 01:15:29,940
Speaker 1: where I'm at. So when I talk about being an alcoholic,

1312
01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:32,020
Speaker 1: when I talk about the things that I have done,

1313
01:15:32,840 --> 01:15:38,240
Speaker 1: it is, listen, you need to understand where I was at.

1314
01:15:38,620 --> 01:15:41,080
Speaker 1: You need to understand what I was doing, who I was,

1315
01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:45,309
Speaker 1: because that makes Jesus look all the more better. Right.

1316
01:15:45,360 --> 01:15:52,250
Speaker 1: Like that looks, that makes Jesus look, um, it, it

1317
01:15:52,390 --> 01:15:57,570
Speaker 1: shows off who he is. Right. Um, Listen, Charles, I

1318
01:15:57,610 --> 01:16:01,530
Speaker 1: just want to thank you so much for joining us,

1319
01:16:01,570 --> 01:16:05,290
Speaker 1: for having the courage to tell your story and for

1320
01:16:05,350 --> 01:16:11,740
Speaker 1: pointing to Jesus. So encouraged by you. And I just

1321
01:16:11,979 --> 01:16:14,860
Speaker 1: know that there are going to be people that benefit

1322
01:16:15,460 --> 01:16:18,240
Speaker 1: from hearing your story. Thanks, brother.

1323
01:16:18,740 --> 01:16:19,259
Speaker 3: Thanks, John.

1324
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:24,610
Speaker 1: So I think it would be easy to hear Charles story.

1325
01:16:25,180 --> 01:16:28,680
Speaker 1: and say, oh, okay, well, I just need that moment

1326
01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:30,680
Speaker 1: where Jesus shows up with flashing lights in my room,

1327
01:16:30,760 --> 01:16:33,960
Speaker 1: and then I know that's the end, right? And that's

1328
01:16:33,979 --> 01:16:36,620
Speaker 1: what I'm praying for. And until that happens, like, you know,

1329
01:16:36,720 --> 01:16:40,860
Speaker 1: I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing. But

1330
01:16:41,100 --> 01:16:44,570
Speaker 1: what I don't want you to miss is that when

1331
01:16:44,610 --> 01:16:47,970
Speaker 1: I asked Charles about, you know, life after that moment,

1332
01:16:49,070 --> 01:16:52,769
Speaker 1: he still talked about, like, He still had to work, right?

1333
01:16:52,830 --> 01:16:54,810
Speaker 1: Like he still had to put in the work to

1334
01:16:54,850 --> 01:17:00,210
Speaker 1: get to the root issues, right? And so I say

1335
01:17:00,250 --> 01:17:05,799
Speaker 1: like sobriety is the starting line. It's not the finish line, right?

1336
01:17:06,229 --> 01:17:10,920
Speaker 1: Because even though the obsession was lifted, if you want

1337
01:17:10,939 --> 01:17:14,120
Speaker 1: to use the AA language, or there was this miraculous–

1338
01:17:14,220 --> 01:17:17,500
Speaker 1: like that doesn't mean– like why were you going to

1339
01:17:17,540 --> 01:17:22,100
Speaker 1: in the first place, right? That's why I'm always– cautious

1340
01:17:22,320 --> 01:17:25,660
Speaker 1: not not in believing them but i'm cautious about people

1341
01:17:25,700 --> 01:17:29,920
Speaker 1: when they have um uh moments where everything just goes

1342
01:17:30,600 --> 01:17:33,200
Speaker 1: away because i i like to hear and listen and

1343
01:17:33,439 --> 01:17:35,639
Speaker 1: ask okay so well what did you do after that

1344
01:17:36,340 --> 01:17:40,300
Speaker 1: right um and that's why in a sense i asked

1345
01:17:40,320 --> 01:17:44,599
Speaker 1: that of charles right as is because it's not just

1346
01:17:44,720 --> 01:17:47,939
Speaker 1: about not drinking it's not just about not fill in

1347
01:17:47,970 --> 01:17:51,750
Speaker 1: the blank Even if the desire to drink is gone,

1348
01:17:53,650 --> 01:17:57,480
Speaker 1: there's still amends that you have to make. There's still

1349
01:17:57,540 --> 01:17:58,980
Speaker 1: a life you have to put back together. You still

1350
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:01,480
Speaker 1: have a wife who realizes, oh my gosh, my husband

1351
01:18:01,500 --> 01:18:05,040
Speaker 1: was drunk. Well, I was giving birth to our daughter, right?

1352
01:18:06,180 --> 01:18:10,610
Speaker 1: And not having the desire to drink anymore doesn't repair

1353
01:18:10,650 --> 01:18:14,790
Speaker 1: and fix that, right? So I just want to encourage you.

1354
01:18:15,010 --> 01:18:17,280
Speaker 1: Don't sit back and just say, oh, well. If I

1355
01:18:17,300 --> 01:18:18,920
Speaker 1: can just get the miracle moment, then everything will be

1356
01:18:18,979 --> 01:18:23,290
Speaker 1: fine and whatnot. Listen, Jesus can take away a desire

1357
01:18:23,370 --> 01:18:29,130
Speaker 1: in an instant. But even if he does, there's still

1358
01:18:29,250 --> 01:18:33,030
Speaker 1: a lifetime to learn about how to live out that

1359
01:18:33,070 --> 01:18:36,390
Speaker 1: process of sanctification and how to get to the root

1360
01:18:36,490 --> 01:18:39,960
Speaker 1: of all of our sin and heart issues. So that's

1361
01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:42,160
Speaker 1: my encouragement to you. Thank you, as always, to our partner,

1362
01:18:42,220 --> 01:18:44,060
Speaker 1: Life Audio. You can go to lifeaudio.com and listen to

1363
01:18:44,120 --> 01:18:48,780
Speaker 1: other great podcasts, We will see you here again. And

1364
01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:50,650
Speaker 1: I say, by the way, see you. you because you

1365
01:18:50,670 --> 01:18:55,550
Speaker 1: can watch these episodes now on Apple, Spotify. And then

1366
01:18:55,590 --> 01:18:58,340
Speaker 1: if you want to watch them ad-free, you can always

1367
01:18:58,400 --> 01:19:04,719
Speaker 1: go to theveritasdaily.com where subscribers and pain supporters can get

1368
01:19:05,280 --> 01:19:08,540
Speaker 1: the ad-free version. So, When I say we'll see you

1369
01:19:08,580 --> 01:19:10,540
Speaker 1: back here again next week, I really do mean it.

1370
01:19:10,700 --> 01:19:13,710
Speaker 1: You can see me here next week. Love y'all.