1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 2: Welcome to I Wish You Could Hear This, where we 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 2: explore great stories and simple, proven steps to help you 4 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 2: thrive in life, faith, and relationships. 5 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 3: In our research, we've heard hundreds of Hopefield strategies for marriage, parenting, leadership, 6 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 3: and life that are grounded in science and consistent with 7 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 3: biblical truth. 8 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 4: And now you can hear them too. 9 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 2: I'm Santa Felton. 10 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 4: And I'm Jeff Felton. 11 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 2: All of us have a deep, hardwired desire to belong, 12 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 2: to be accepted, safe, valued, and the object of someone's 13 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 2: affections just for who we are. It's the stuff of poetry, music, 14 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 2: and movies. Yet we also tend to view love as 15 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 2: something that happens to us. I have a great desire 16 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 2: for it, but I don't have much control over it. 17 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 2: But what if love is something you can choose to experience. 18 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 2: With our special guest, Chip Ingram, that is what we're 19 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 2: going to talk about today on I Wish You Could 20 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 2: Hear This, Chip. 21 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 4: Thank you for joining us. 22 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: Jeff Chauncey. Great to be with you, guys. As we 23 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: talked just a little bit before, we go way back, 24 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: and so this is little reunion and I'm just thrilled 25 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: to get to talk about this topic because you're so right, Chaunty. 26 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 1: I mean, we long to be loved and what a 27 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: tragedy to wait around for it to come our way 28 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,639 Speaker 1: when we can actually choose it. Yeah. 29 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 3: So let me introduce you Chip to our listeners. You're 30 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,559 Speaker 3: the CEO of Living on the Edge and International Teaching 31 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 3: and Discipleship Ministry. You've been a pastor for more than 32 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 3: thirty five years, including a church here in Atlanta when 33 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 3: you lived here that friends of ours attend and loved. 34 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 4: But yeah, before I share a bit more about. 35 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 3: Who you are with our listeners, I just wanted to 36 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 3: say thank you for a series of messages you gave 37 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:15,799 Speaker 3: and what was probably the early two thousands, a friend 38 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 3: gave me a set of CDSD Yeah remember those so 39 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 3: CDs that was named something like good to Great in 40 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 3: God's Eyes, Yes, And in it you listed a number 41 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 3: of practices that will help a person grow in their 42 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,679 Speaker 3: faith in their lives. One that sticks out to me 43 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 3: from all those years was read great books and that 44 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 3: that made such an impact on me that it began 45 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 3: a life long practice of doing that. Though though I 46 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 3: will say the brothers Karamatsov beat me for five attempts 47 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 3: and I finally conquered it. 48 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 4: But I considered that a victory. 49 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 2: So and you conquered it because shipp ingram, because. 50 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:05,279 Speaker 4: To great books. 51 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 3: So anyways, sorry about that trip down memory lane, and 52 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 3: let's get back to the present. You've written so many books, 53 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 3: including I Choose Joy and your latest book, I Choose Love. 54 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 3: You and your wife Teresa have four grown children and 55 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 3: twelve grandchildren, and you live in California. 56 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 4: It's such an. 57 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,359 Speaker 3: Honor to have you here on the podcast. 58 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 4: Thank you. 59 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 1: Oh I'm glad, Jeff. And I think of all the 60 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: you know, different things. You know, books get written out 61 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: of context, and it was a context where you know, 62 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: good to Great was of course the Collins Great Book 63 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: on leadership and forming teams and getting people on the 64 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: bus and all those things. And I was in the 65 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: midst of one of those. And those can be really 66 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: challenging times, and I would wake up at you know, 67 00:03:57,600 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: two in the morning and sit in a rocking chair 68 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: in front of a little fire and try to work through. 69 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: Oh lord, you know, this organization you've called me to 70 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: lead right now is going through a hard time, and 71 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: the economy's dropped out and these are the practices. And 72 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: it got me thinking, God, what are the great practices 73 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 1: great Christians have in common? And it started sitting in 74 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: front of that fire and just in my mind's eye, 75 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 1: going from Genesis to Revelation and thinking of who are 76 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: the great heroes of the faith and then sort of 77 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 1: church history. And unfortunately I was one of those leaders 78 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 1: that a lot of hard decisions had to be made, 79 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 1: and you knew the mission mattered, but you also knew 80 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: these are awesome people. How can we keep more of them? 81 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 1: And what are we going to have to do? And 82 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 1: so those middle of the nights were the birthing of 83 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: good to great in God's eyes. But it's just great 84 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: to be with you all. And you know, the Lord 85 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 1: has used books in all of our lives in such 86 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 1: an amazing way. And I hope this one that we're 87 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: talking about today. It's it's really pretty simple, but I 88 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: think it's practical and the idea of choosing love was 89 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: pretty revolutionary to me, and so I hope it'll be 90 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: as encouraging for our listeners. 91 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 2: That's awesome. I you know, I just have to say, 92 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 2: just big picture, beyond any one book, including I Choose Love, 93 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 2: I've I've just always loved the purpose behind your ministry 94 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 2: Living on the Edge, because the tagline, just for people 95 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 2: who don't know, the tagline is helping Christians live like Christians, 96 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 2: which goodness just the such a huge need for all 97 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 2: of us. Yes, and you know I have intersected with 98 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 2: with you guys. I mean, like I can so remember 99 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 2: a number of years ago before you had moved on 100 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 2: from Venture Christian in San Jose, I did a women's 101 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 2: retreat out there and and you you know, the Living 102 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 2: on the Edge ministry has really just that idea of 103 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 2: helping Christians live like Christians has helped so many people. 104 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 2: Can you before we dive into your book, can we 105 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 2: back up to just a little bit of a bigger picture, 106 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 2: just get us all on the same page of all, 107 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 2: what led you to start Living on the Edge. 108 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: We were doing five services with video overflow and all 109 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: the services. I was way overwhelmed, didn't know what to do. 110 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: My wife was probably concerned about my health. I was 111 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: a recovering workaholic even then, and so she prayed God 112 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 1: would take the messages outside the walls. You know, there's 113 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: times where you happened. God has a glove about what 114 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: he wants to do in an area, and every now 115 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: and then you just happened to be the hand. And 116 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: it was just a perfect fit. It was informal, it 117 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 1: was completely unchurched, people from all kinds of backgrounds, just 118 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 1: absolutely far from God, and our brokenness fit in. And so, 119 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 1: I mean, we had people from the drug culture, alternative 120 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: lifestyle culture, New age, just all kind of crazy places. 121 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: And we both came from these alcoholic family pass and 122 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 1: God had redeemed us, but we were really you know, 123 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: so we were just really open. And it happened. All 124 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: these other broken people thought, wow, as messed up as 125 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: you two are, if it works it, maybe it could 126 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: work for us. And so all these thousands of people 127 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: started showing up on the Seven Acres and all these 128 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: different things were happening, and a guy came by and 129 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: a fellow pastor in the area who had a radio background, 130 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: said to KFAX, which was the big station, we think 131 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: this fellow pastor would be good on the radio. So 132 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: Kingdom mindset. And they came by and I said, I'm sorry, 133 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: I'm overwhelmed right now. I'm doing services a weekend, which 134 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: I learned later was really pretty stupid. And no, I 135 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: mean I don't know what it's like to be clinically depressed, 136 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: but I got as close as you can get without 137 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,559 Speaker 1: getting in the hospital. It was. I was numb until 138 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: about Thursday or Friday of each week, and God, you know, 139 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: we'd open a service and it was his hand, you know, 140 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: four or five hundred people would show up. I mean 141 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: it would just and I would share the gospel, and 142 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: in services ten fifteen, twenty people would line up, and 143 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: we only had three or four staff in the early days, 144 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: and I'd just give him a Gospel of John and 145 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 1: say read this and come back next week. We don't 146 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 1: have enough people to follow you up. And it was 147 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: just one of those seasons. And so a business guy 148 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:47,319 Speaker 1: heard about the radio offer and said, Chip, you need 149 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: to do that. God's in this. And I said, Dick, 150 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I've got nothing to give. He said, well, 151 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: could I do it? I said, Dick, you can do 152 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: whatever you want. And so he talked with our worship 153 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 1: pastor who happened to have a RADI background, and actually 154 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: Dick's sleeper, the man who started living on the edge, 155 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: this last Sunday at ninety three, just went to be 156 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: with the Lord. He's mentored me since I was about 157 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: thirty seven years old, I mean regularly every other week, 158 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: and he started it and so it became a radio 159 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 1: broadcast and then it was during that time as it 160 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: started to grow and go around the country, you know, 161 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,839 Speaker 1: I was actually fairly fearful, not that it would fail. 162 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,719 Speaker 1: I was really fearful that it might succeed because it 163 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: happened in a window in my life. I didn't grow 164 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 1: up as a follower of Christ, and I thought everyone 165 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: in media were crooks. And you know, I had a 166 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: lot of bad experiences and people can identify with that. 167 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: And I now know there's some very wonderful people in 168 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: media who are very godly, and there's a lot of 169 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: people in media that are crooks. 170 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 4: You know, right, So it's like the rest of the world. 171 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, And so my fear was, you know, I started 172 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: out for the right reasons, and two or three my 173 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 1: heroes had fallen morally, and I just thought, you know, 174 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:13,839 Speaker 1: if this really goes well, I don't want to wake 175 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,959 Speaker 1: up in ten years and embarrassed Teresa, my wife, or 176 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: my kids, or people that have trusted me. Because the 177 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: churches that I that I pastored, two of the three 178 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: I followed people where there was moral failure and I 179 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: saw the pain and the chaos that had happened, and 180 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: so Dick put it on the radio, and that's what 181 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: led to it growing. Eventually it went on you know, 182 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,319 Speaker 1: ay or twelve hundred stations whatever, and people heard the messages. 183 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: And another guy was with Moltnoma and he said, you 184 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: know this message that you know, that would be a 185 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,559 Speaker 1: great book, And the people at Moody did something similar, 186 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: and it literally it's been like you know that I 187 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: had the picture of the people that put the bread 188 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: crumbs out, and you just go to the next one, 189 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: the next one, and the next one, and then you 190 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 1: look up in ten, fifteen, twenty years and you look 191 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: in the rearview mirror and you think, well, I never 192 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: planned to write a whole bunch of books, and I 193 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: certainly never planned to do what's happened. But once it grew, 194 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: what I realized when things happened where you could get 195 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: all kind of great teaching for free on the internet, 196 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: for some people it's like, hasn't that always been Well, no, 197 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: it wasn't always that way. 198 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 2: There wasn't always that way, and. 199 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: You know, we were paying you know, extremes amount of 200 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: money to be on a half hour, say in La 201 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 1: or Chicago or all these morning time slots. And what 202 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: I saw was, now people can get good transformational Bible teaching. 203 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 1: How do we help them take the next step out 204 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: of my time with Walk through the Bible. We'd create 205 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,079 Speaker 1: a lot of small group materials. So we started to 206 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: launch those off the air, and we literally launched in 207 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:11,439 Speaker 1: about three to five years, four hundred thousand small groups. Wow. 208 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:15,439 Speaker 1: And then we created you know, about twenty small group resources. 209 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: And what I really saw was, you know, Barnet did 210 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: some research. We had nine point eight people. I don't 211 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: know what happened to the other two tenths, but nine 212 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: point eight people in these groups. So pretty soon you 213 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: got three or four million people not listening but studying 214 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: God's word. And that led to us realizing my passion. 215 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 1: I came to Christ from a non Christian background. A 216 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: bricklayer trained by the Navigators discipled me for the first 217 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,079 Speaker 1: five or six years, and so I've always done that, 218 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: and I didn't realize everyone didn't have someone do that 219 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: with them. And so that what we realized was the 220 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 1: teaching that's a good start. Then we created training in 221 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: small groups and then as that happened and God took 222 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: it on satellites and all kind of plays is all 223 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: around the world, we realized, if we're really going to 224 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: change the trajectory, we've got to go upstream and we 225 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 1: need to help pastors. And I just say this as 226 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: a I really mean as a testament to the Lord 227 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: and about the last six or seven years, but in 228 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: the last five we've been able to train about half 229 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: a million pastors in live events and now have teams 230 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 1: staff members that are nationals in India, Africa, and Middle East, 231 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 1: Latin America, all around the world. So it really evolved 232 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: into a disciple making ministry. And so our premises that 233 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: Jesus taught the multitudes, he provided practical training for his leaders, 234 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: and then he created tools for them to reproduce their life. 235 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 1: So that's that's we're trying to follow that model. And 236 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,559 Speaker 1: you all have been in on different parts of that journey. 237 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: And I would love to say that was my plan. 238 00:13:55,800 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: And you know, it's a strategic thing. Even even the Boks. 239 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: I've written and created this catechism that we take people through. 240 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: While I was teaching it, you know, I just thought 241 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: this seems to be major stuff. So the Book of 242 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: Ethesians and you know, this book on this and with 243 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: the character of God, and then I looked up in 244 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: about twenty years and it all started to fit together 245 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: and make sense. So it's been very challenging, to be honest, 246 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: super rewarding and very exciting and very humbling. 247 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 3: That is so encouraging because you know, I, like most people, 248 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 3: we want God to reveal his plan for us, you know, 249 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 3: kind of all at once, and then we work toward it. 250 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 3: And yes, He has revealed his plan through scriptures for us, 251 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 3: I mean, the ultimate plan. 252 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 4: But you know, for the for the most part, it's. 253 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 3: Just as you said, we follow the breadcrumbs and then 254 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 3: we look up twenty years later, but we keep moving forward. 255 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 3: And that's that's the key at least, and it's our 256 00:14:55,080 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 3: key in our relationships. Yeah, you don't necessarily see huge 257 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 3: changes always in your relationship when you immediately immediately, but 258 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 3: you follow the bread crumbs and you keep at it. 259 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 3: And why don't we jump into a little more. 260 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 2: Well, I here's because here's what I'm thinking, Because for 261 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 2: a follower of Jesus, love is obviously the tip of 262 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 2: the spear of are what our lives are supposed to 263 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 2: look like out in the world. I don't know whether 264 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 2: love and the tip of the spear is the right 265 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 2: word picture. Now that I just said that, probably probably 266 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 2: not the right word picture. But you know what I'm 267 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, where are that is what 268 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 2: our lives are most suppose supposed to be marked by? 269 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: Yes? 270 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 2: And in the book that we're talking about today, your 271 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 2: newest book, I choose Love. Basically, one of the premises 272 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 2: is that we're we're thinking of love as a feeling. 273 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 2: We're thinking of love as something that happens to us, 274 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 2: and we, of all people should be ones who understand 275 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 2: what love is. And so can we start there? Can 276 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 2: you tell us in your definition and this sort of 277 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 2: new way of thinking about this, which is obviously a 278 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 2: very ancient way of thinking about this, because this is God. 279 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 2: Just get everybody on the same page about what is love? 280 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 2: In your phrasing? 281 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: Here quick quick summary, because I don't want people to 282 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: hear some dichotomy. I love great emotional feelings. I love 283 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: being in loved. I love those warm connections and attraction 284 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: to my wife. I love romance. All that is wonderful 285 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: in the last two hundred years that has come to 286 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: define love and all this is it. I mean, that's it, 287 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: and everything else is sort of on the side. And 288 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 1: the second thing I would say in terms of context 289 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 1: is in English, we have one word that we try 290 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,880 Speaker 1: to cover everything from I love pizza, to I love 291 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: my dog, to I love God, or I love my mate, 292 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: or I love my children. This brand new baby, I 293 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 1: love it. Well to use the word love for that, 294 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:24,159 Speaker 1: and pizza is just so. In the Greek language, we 295 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: have agape love, which is God's love. You have aros love, 296 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: which is that sexual romantic love. You have philo which 297 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: is friendship love that bond between great deep friends. And 298 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: you have stoygay that that is family love. And C. S. Lewis, 299 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 1: if you want more on that, wrote a great book 300 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: on the four kinds of love. But I want to. 301 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,880 Speaker 2: Know which one. You love? Pizza like none of those. 302 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe it's sensual, maybe that's maybe it's it's the 303 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: it's the the taste buds, the aros taste buds, the 304 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,120 Speaker 1: passion that we have. I don't know. But but with 305 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: that said, a gotpe love is not based on feelings. 306 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: A gotpe love is a volitional, willful love that puts 307 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: the needs of another person above your own with great sacrifice. 308 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: So my definition of love, and I'm sure I just 309 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,719 Speaker 1: pieced it together from what I've learned, But love is 310 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,880 Speaker 1: giving another person what they need the most when they 311 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: deserve it the least, at great personal cost. I mean 312 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 1: apply that love is giving another person what they need 313 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: the most when they deserve it the least, at great 314 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: personal cost. And so it's for me, it's it's it's 315 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,880 Speaker 1: it's responding to my wife, or to one of my children, 316 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: or to a friend or to my enemy at a 317 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 1: time that I'm going to give them what they need 318 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: when everything in me says they don't deserve that, after 319 00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,120 Speaker 1: what she said or what they did, or how they 320 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: treated me. And it's a choice, and it's at great 321 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: personal cost. And if you take that definition and imagine 322 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: and picture Jesus hanging on the cross and the scripture 323 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,719 Speaker 1: that tells us that God demonstrated his love toward us, 324 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: that while we were yet sinners, Christ died in our place, 325 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: then what you see is that's the model. And it, 326 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: by the way, impossible to do out of your human effort. 327 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: That requires super natural enablement. But is that you know 328 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: when the Bible says love never fails. It's that kind 329 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: of love that never fails. That kind of love breaks addictions. 330 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:44,199 Speaker 1: That kind of love takes people who hate one another, 331 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,360 Speaker 1: who don't think the marriage could ever work. That kind 332 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,959 Speaker 1: of love is what turns the tables between a democrat 333 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: and Republican who come at the opposite and have been 334 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 1: throwing grenades to one another, and actually put Jesus above 335 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 1: all of that and treat each other with dignity and 336 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:07,640 Speaker 1: seek to understand rather than to be understood. And that's 337 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: kind that's the kind of love that changed from the 338 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,120 Speaker 1: first century to today. And that's why at the heart 339 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: of this book, it's really it's the explanation the picture 340 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,360 Speaker 1: of Philippians chapter two. Kind of love that Jesus models 341 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: for us. 342 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I I'm curious you have you've written multiple books. 343 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 2: You have had but you have had so many different 344 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 2: types of messages and in sort of in context, only 345 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 2: a few messages can make it into a book. Right, 346 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 2: Like a book is a bigger deal. It takes a 347 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 2: lot more time. There's a lot several years of work 348 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 2: that go into it. 349 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 3: What and you have a lot less time for the participant, 350 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 3: the viewer, the reader, Right, than you do if you've 351 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 3: got multiple weeks in giving a message correct. 352 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 2: And so I'm I'm wondering, in looking at all the 353 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,439 Speaker 2: topics that you could have written your next book about, 354 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,120 Speaker 2: what led you to eventually say, you know what, this 355 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:15,160 Speaker 2: book I choose love, this topic is really critical time 356 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 2: at this time. What what led you to actually pull 357 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 2: the trigger on that? Well, I bad word picture, no 358 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 2: trigger anyway, you know what I'm saying. 359 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, some subconscious violent thoughts, but I'm sure I'm sure 360 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: they're focused toward the enemy, the tip of the spear 361 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:36,199 Speaker 1: and the trigger blowing up the bombs of evil or something. 362 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 2: We will go with that chip there. 363 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 1: At the fundamental level, I think I'm a Bible teacher. 364 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 1: That's what I'm really cold to do to pastor to 365 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: teach God's word. And what I learned was is that 366 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: we can learn all the information about the Bible or 367 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: a book and it doesn't bring about a lot a 368 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,959 Speaker 1: lot of life change unless we see it in the context. 369 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: And then you have to change the context. That almost 370 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: every single New Testament book was written to solve a problem. 371 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: And so in this particular case, I was teaching through 372 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 1: the Book of Phlippians and so as I was teaching 373 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 1: through the book, what I realize is that sometimes it 374 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: breaks up in chapters very neatly and others a little 375 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: bit differently. But every chapter, every key concept, it was 376 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: answering a big problem. And in Philippians there was a 377 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,360 Speaker 1: problem of external persecution, there was a problem of the 378 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: internal conflict. There's a group of people, and Paul's at 379 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: the edge of his life thinking, I may die, I 380 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: may live. What do you want to say to a 381 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: group of people that you love dearly to have a 382 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: great relationship with, to help them get unified around the 383 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: bigger things instead of all the conflict, And so he 384 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,959 Speaker 1: in chapter two says, if you've experienced any love, any compassion, 385 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: anything great, wonderful, overwhelming in Jesus, make my joy complete 386 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: by being in the same mind, heart, the same spirit. 387 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 1: Have these kind of supernatural relationships that are other centered, 388 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: that this agape kind of love for each other, because 389 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 1: that's what Jesus saidould change the world. When you love 390 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: that way, the world will know. The Father sent the son. 391 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 1: And then when he tells him, let me tell you 392 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: how have this attitude in yourselves which was in Christ Jesus. 393 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,640 Speaker 1: And so the attitude then you know, we'll walk through 394 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: it for as much time as we have. Is that 395 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:32,479 Speaker 1: the attitude. First was Jesus gave and he and the 396 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: second is then he cave not just when it was easy, 397 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: but he came as a servant. What are their needs? 398 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: Then he gave when he didn't feel like he gave 399 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: to the point of obedience, even to the cross. And 400 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,400 Speaker 1: then the rest of that chapter is he entrusts Timothy 401 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: to go help them because Timothy cares like no one else. 402 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: And he says, by the way, I want to thank 403 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: you all for hipaphroditis because he came and he risked 404 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: his life. He cares so much for you. And finally, 405 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,360 Speaker 1: the reason I'm writing all this is because I care. 406 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 1: And so what you see is on the one hand, 407 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: I can learn Philippians and no Kenosis and he emptied himself, 408 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: and I can know all the theology. I can get 409 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: that in Bible school, I can get it at church, 410 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:17,399 Speaker 1: and it's wonderful to know, but it doesn't transform my life. 411 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 1: Jesus said, knowing the truth does not change anything. He said, 412 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 1: if you put the truth into practice, those Jews who 413 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: believed on him John eight thirty two and abide in 414 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 1: my word. And what I found was a lot of 415 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,679 Speaker 1: people don't know how to do that. And so if 416 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 1: that was the answer, what I did is I flipped 417 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,159 Speaker 1: it around and I said, what are the questions that 418 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: people were facing today? And the questions we're facing today 419 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: is families are breaking apart, We've got division and generations, 420 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,439 Speaker 1: we've got political disunity, we've got churches ripped apart. We 421 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 1: have controversial issues that go unresolved in families and churches 422 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: and gender and anxiety and suicide and it's God, Help, 423 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: Help Help. Well, those are really the exact same issues 424 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: that were to be addressed. And so I found myself 425 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: asked to speak at the Billy Graham Center, and seeing 426 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: where the world was, I thought, well, I will teach 427 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: Philippians chapter two. And when I got done, and when 428 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: I heard the response, and then when something goes on 429 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 1: the air and I hear the response, and I hear 430 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: over and over and over. Oh, now I see how 431 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 1: I can love my wife I don't even like right now. 432 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,959 Speaker 1: Now I see how I can love my wayward adult 433 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: child who I feel betrayed because I put him in 434 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: Christian school, send him to this good college and now 435 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: they've walked away from the Lord. Now I can understand, 436 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: at least I may disagree with my Republican or Democratic 437 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: friend that we grew up together and are now polar opposite. 438 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: What's it look like to give them what they need 439 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: when in my mind they deserve it the least a 440 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:10,159 Speaker 1: great personal cost. 441 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,400 Speaker 3: So you know, I love this and and now I'm 442 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 3: gonna think about what perhaps the listener of what you 443 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 3: just said might be going through their mind. There's a 444 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,439 Speaker 3: there's a great line in the movie Shanty and I 445 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 3: Love and I've watched it so many times Field of 446 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 3: Dreams where Kevin Costner, you know, is talking to Shoeless 447 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 3: Joe at the end of the movie and he's kind 448 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 3: of saying, you know, kind of hey, I want to 449 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,159 Speaker 3: go out in that cornfield, you know, why not me? 450 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 3: And Shoeless Joe says, are you asking? You know, what's 451 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 3: in it for me? And the Ray Consolo, the Kevin 452 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 3: Costner Carrott says says, no. 453 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 4: I'm not, but I'm asking what's in it for me? 454 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:03,399 Speaker 3: So so here's the listener saying, Okay, I get that chip, 455 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 3: the giving, the serving, the obeying, what's in it for me? 456 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 3: I know that it's right, yes, to follow Jesus in 457 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:13,439 Speaker 3: these things. 458 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:15,199 Speaker 4: But what's in it for me? 459 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 1: Well, Jesus made some very counterintuitive messages, and unfortunately the 460 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: verse I'm going to quote they've heard pastors talk about 461 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 1: and their mind will jump to money. The context isn't 462 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 1: money at all. It may apply give and it will be 463 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: given unto you. Good measure, pressed down, shaking together, running 464 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,400 Speaker 1: over back into your lap. For whatever measure you give 465 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,439 Speaker 1: to others, it'll be multiplied back to you in the 466 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 1: same measure. And what he was talking about is when 467 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: I want to get make my life work, satisfy me, 468 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: be nice to me, be my friend. When you live 469 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,399 Speaker 1: with a victim mentality, why aren't people coming through for me? 470 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:04,239 Speaker 1: You will live an isolated, anxious life alone. What's in 471 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: it for people is when you do life God's way 472 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: and by the way, in his power. I don't I 473 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: don't want to this. You know this is not self 474 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: help promotional motivational speak. You know, just be more giving. 475 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: There's there's some truth to following his principles, but at 476 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:28,639 Speaker 1: the level of transformation one you have to draw nearer 477 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,439 Speaker 1: to God to be able to give what you you 478 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 1: can't give what you don't have. But what I would say, 479 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:39,959 Speaker 1: what's in it is restoration of a relationship, peace in 480 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: your life, the breaking down of barriers that felt impossible. 481 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: Neighbors who have looked at you with suspect and you're 482 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: one of those Christians and you feel isolated and people 483 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: are against you. It will cause you to begin to 484 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: ask questions, get involved in people's lives, stop judging them, 485 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: looking for opportunities to serve, building bridges as opposed to 486 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 1: building walls, and you will find that you are one 487 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: of those Christians that other people look around and say, 488 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: how come there's such blessing in your life? How can 489 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: you have this attitude in the midst of all this 490 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 1: chaos going around because rather than did I get my way? 491 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: Are people caring about me? Blaming? What's wrong with all 492 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: those people? Name your political party, Name people you're mad at, 493 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: Name the people on Facebook. Keep listening to a half 494 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: hour more of than the news every day. It'll keep 495 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: you anxious and depressed. Just keep pressing ahead versus kind 496 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: of coming above that phray and you know you think 497 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: about it. I mean the subtitle of the book I 498 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: got some great help on that is how to love 499 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: your neighbors yourself. That sounds vaguely familiar, like what someone 500 00:29:54,880 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 1: said was a pretty high priority, and sometimes forget it 501 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: is you want to love your neighbor as yourself, but 502 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: you know a lot of people don't even like themselves, 503 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 1: let alone love themselves in the appropriate way. And so 504 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: there's part of this book that helps us understand guess 505 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: what God gave to you. Every morning you wake up, 506 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 1: you're greeted by a heavenly father says, how can I 507 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: serve you today? I want to help you. There's you 508 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: have an elder brother sitting at the right hand of 509 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: the father saying I obeyed at an extreme level because 510 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: I just want you to know that you're seated in 511 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: the heavenly places with me and every spiritual blessing is 512 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 1: totally available. I love you, I've redeemed you, I'm for you. 513 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 1: Why don't we do life together today? And I just 514 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: want you to know it's not also spiritual. I care. 515 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: I care about, you know, the little meeting you're going 516 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: to have. I care about your fifth grader, you know, 517 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: and the challenge with the project and you don't know 518 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: how to help him. And I care about the economy 519 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 1: and I understand what's going on in Iran, and I 520 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: care about you. Know you were insulted and hurt your feelings. 521 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: I'm here for you. So when you want to say, 522 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: what do we get out of it? We get the 523 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 1: life that's really life. Wow. 524 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 2: Wow, a great way of putting in. I love the 525 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 2: fact that you take what is often a topic that 526 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 2: we all know that we should be leaning into. We 527 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 2: should have the love of Christ. That's what our lives 528 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,479 Speaker 2: should look like, and yet sometimes it can feel like vague, 529 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:40,720 Speaker 2: like I don't know how, And I love that you're 530 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 2: talking about how practically what does that look like? You 531 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 2: mentioned the four characteristics, the sort of the four parts 532 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 2: of what it looks like. Love gives, love serves, love obeys, 533 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 2: and loves cares, and so you can see that in 534 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 2: the book. But in I'd like to drill in on 535 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 2: one in the Love Gives. 536 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 3: That that wasn't a military reference. Drill in it was. 537 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 3: It was it was environmental and big oil or whatever. 538 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're getting better, We're okay, we're getting we're improving, 539 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 2: all right. So in that Love Gives section one of 540 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 2: the practical, because we're all about trying to help people 541 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 2: practically right, you talk about the platinum rule, So what 542 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 2: is that rule? How does basing our response on what 543 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 2: God has already done for us change our tendency to 544 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 2: wait for the other person to change before we act, 545 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 2: so we actually can do what you're encouraging us to do. 546 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: Well, that Platinum rule can only be understood when you 547 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: remember the Golden rule, And of course Jesus taught it, 548 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: you know, given to others as you you know, want 549 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: them to treat you. And and actually, you know God 550 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: all truth is God's truth. So multiple religions kind of 551 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 1: talk about some equivalent of the Golden rules. Yes, and 552 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: and it is, you know, whatever you believe. When you 553 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 1: treat people that way, it's better for them, it makes 554 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: for a better world. But the Platinum rule, by the way, 555 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: I just made that up. I feel like a lot 556 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: of freedom and what what and the reason was I thought, 557 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: we know, we're supposed to do unto others as we 558 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: want them to do unto you. But Paul is commanding 559 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: a group of people. Have this attitude in yourselves, which 560 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 1: was also in Christ. Jesus, who, although okay he exists 561 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 1: in the form of God, didn't recard a quality of 562 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 1: God a thing to be a grassed in other words, 563 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: in other words, he willfully stepped down to serve, to give. 564 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,440 Speaker 1: And so really what he's telling them is, I want 565 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: you to treat others the way that God has already 566 00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 1: treated you. 567 00:33:58,600 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 2: Oh it's a great rule. 568 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: And what I realized by way of if we can 569 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: get really, really practical, because I came from an alcoholic 570 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,919 Speaker 1: homeb as did my wife, and it's more complicated than that. 571 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,319 Speaker 1: We get married, put everything in a truck, go away 572 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 1: to seminary. And we're nine months in and she's the 573 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 1: most committed Christian I've ever known. We did morally, we 574 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: did life God's way prior to our marriage, and we're 575 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 1: in seminary. I have two little boys I adopted of hers. 576 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 1: Another long story. So there's a lot of moving parts 577 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:39,880 Speaker 1: and we can't communicate. We have unresolved anger and our 578 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 1: marriage isn't working. And I mean, I'm I love her 579 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: to death and she makes me nuts, I mean not mildly, 580 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,840 Speaker 1: and I'm at the emotional level it's like, Okay, I 581 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,240 Speaker 1: can't get out of this. I mean, I made a covenant. 582 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,879 Speaker 1: There's no moral grounds for divorce in any way. I've 583 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 1: got no biblical grounds, but I can't for see living 584 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 1: with her like this. And when we would have a disagreement, 585 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,239 Speaker 1: she would shut down and get quiet, and I would 586 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: march around the bed and quote verses about don't go 587 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,840 Speaker 1: to the bed, you know, angry and and so I 588 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 1: and we couldn't solve it. And I had a professor 589 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 1: who was very helpful and got us into some really 590 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 1: great counseling. And you know, this council happened to be 591 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 1: a former senior pastor, so it was very very biblical. 592 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:32,359 Speaker 1: And I didn't want to try. You know, that was 593 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: you know, I had this terrible attitude and there was 594 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 1: a huge wall. And the breakthrough came. I didn't call 595 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: it the Platinum rule back then, but the breakthrough came 596 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 1: when I realized I can't change her my whole perspective. 597 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: If she would just change these two or three things, 598 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,320 Speaker 1: we would have a great marriage. And of course she's thinking, 599 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: if he could just change these two or three things, 600 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:55,879 Speaker 1: we could have a great marriage. And we just kept 601 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 1: expecting the other person to get with the program. And 602 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 1: it was and we would try hard. I mean, we're 603 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 1: trying really hard, and even trying hard, we would pass 604 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 1: in communication and it got worse instead of better. And 605 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 1: I remember coming to the point where Lord, I made 606 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:18,240 Speaker 1: a covenant. I won't break it. I don't emotionally want 607 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:22,240 Speaker 1: to help her or to love her right now, because 608 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 1: we wound one another once we start down that path. 609 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 1: And I remember saying, Lord, but my offering to you is, 610 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:33,759 Speaker 1: I'm going to do what this counselor says. I have 611 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:40,880 Speaker 1: no idea what talking and not interrupting or vacuuming or 612 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,799 Speaker 1: picking up the dishes has anything remotely to do with love, 613 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,840 Speaker 1: But I'm going to choose to do that. I'm I 614 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: can't even do it for her right now, but that'll 615 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 1: be my offering to you. And so I gave what 616 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 1: because you've been merciful to me, You forgave me you 617 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 1: And and as I took that step, of course, she's 618 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 1: hearing from God and doing the same thing. And that 619 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:10,279 Speaker 1: was the breakthrough. Every relationship is a system, and you 620 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 1: can't control the other person, but you can change the system. 621 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,319 Speaker 1: And that can happen in every relationship. And I think 622 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 1: when we as Christians stop saying these are our rights, 623 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 1: or in our relationships, these are our rights, or in 624 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,279 Speaker 1: our political views, these are our rights and we're the 625 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,920 Speaker 1: good people and they're the bad people. And when we 626 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 1: change that to how has God treated us? What is 627 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 1: he already? God's been merciful to me. God's been forgiving 628 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 1: to me. God's been understanding to me. God has been 629 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:42,840 Speaker 1: kind to me. 630 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 2: Okay, that that is a that platinum rule. How can 631 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 2: I treat this person in a way that God has 632 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:57,319 Speaker 2: already treated me? Because it has nothing to do with 633 00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 2: whether I feel like it and whether they've earned it, 634 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 2: because certainly we have not. That is a really, really 635 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:08,280 Speaker 2: helpful practical step that anybody can take when they find 636 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:13,920 Speaker 2: themselves in that moment where they know that they're supposed 637 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 2: to respond in christ like way and they don't know 638 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 2: what that looks like. Well, that gives them what does 639 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 2: it look like? Yes, I love that practical piece of it. 640 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: And I've tried to put that throughout the book. And 641 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,239 Speaker 1: that's one of those moments too where you realize if 642 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:33,239 Speaker 1: you wait to have the right feeling to act. I 643 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:37,880 Speaker 1: remind people this was an illumination to me. When Jesus 644 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 1: is in the garden, Yes he's fully God, but we 645 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:44,760 Speaker 1: forget he was fully human. And when he said, Father, 646 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:49,280 Speaker 1: if there be any other way nothing. Now he's sweating 647 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,840 Speaker 1: drops of great blood because of stress and all the rest. 648 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: And I don't mean this as a negative. He emotionally 649 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,879 Speaker 1: did not want to go to the cross for you 650 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,719 Speaker 1: and me, not because he didn't love us, but he 651 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,200 Speaker 1: understood it he would be separate from the Father, and 652 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,399 Speaker 1: he did understand all the pain, he knew the cost. 653 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:17,799 Speaker 1: But the moment he chooses to obey, the emotions weren't there. 654 00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,840 Speaker 1: He chooses to obey, he fulfilled the Father's plan. And 655 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 1: we all sometimes want grace. We want this power, you know, 656 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,239 Speaker 1: you gotta you know, the foot goes all those old 657 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,440 Speaker 1: Testament pictures until the priests put their foot in the water. 658 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,960 Speaker 1: The red sea doesn't part, you know, until the lady 659 00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:41,640 Speaker 1: baked the little bread for the prophet and put the 660 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 1: cups underneath to get the you know, we have to 661 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:49,400 Speaker 1: Faith is the other side of this coin called obedience. 662 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 1: And so by faith, I treat this person like this, 663 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 1: or I give this affirmation, or I choose to forgive 664 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 1: when I don't feel like it. It's in that process 665 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,440 Speaker 1: where the spirit of God aligns with our obedience and 666 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 1: gives us the grace to actually do it. And it's 667 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,839 Speaker 1: a weird thing that it actually does something inside our 668 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:11,680 Speaker 1: heart changing us. 669 00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to jump in with one. I know 670 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,560 Speaker 2: we're getting to the end of our time, but I 671 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,520 Speaker 2: would love can we go back to that unity in 672 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:27,680 Speaker 2: the body topic, because I just I'm feeling so strongly 673 00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,319 Speaker 2: as we're talking to you that there's something here that 674 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:35,759 Speaker 2: all of us us included, but that everybody needs to 675 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:41,920 Speaker 2: absorb and understand from the Lord when especially all of 676 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,879 Speaker 2: us look with real deep concern at how divided our 677 00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:52,280 Speaker 2: culture has become, and unfortunately that has included the body 678 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:58,000 Speaker 2: of Christ. Our pastor is he's so he's so a 679 00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,560 Speaker 2: good as he's a great leader, he's a man, but 680 00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:06,440 Speaker 2: he will pretty strongly point out that, like when we 681 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:10,520 Speaker 2: look at how the Christian community handled things during the pandemic. 682 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,240 Speaker 4: Oh, we didn't cover ourselves with Laurie. 683 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,239 Speaker 2: We did not cover ourselves with love for sure and 684 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:19,359 Speaker 2: love for one another and unity and sort of you know, hey, 685 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,759 Speaker 2: we kind of fail the test of by this all 686 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,480 Speaker 2: men shall know that you're my disciples because you love 687 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:29,759 Speaker 2: one another. But we're not the first generation, no to 688 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,880 Speaker 2: have that test and to maybe not handle it so well. 689 00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,040 Speaker 2: And I know the book you talk about it's based 690 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 2: on you know, looking through Philippians too, there was so 691 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 2: much division. What would be as we as we go? 692 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:49,360 Speaker 2: What would be a lesson that you've learned in writing? 693 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:53,480 Speaker 2: I choose love and looking at Philippians too. Of how 694 00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:59,800 Speaker 2: anybody listening to this can help bring unity, especially. 695 00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,920 Speaker 1: Back to the body of Yes, you know, I actually 696 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,520 Speaker 1: have my teaching notes in front of me of when 697 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 1: I taught it prior to writing. And in my teaching notes, 698 00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,160 Speaker 1: after I explain one portion at the very top, it 699 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,719 Speaker 1: says how to become a more loving person. And so 700 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:21,520 Speaker 1: I have three very specific takeaways about how to become 701 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:26,560 Speaker 1: a more loving person. And these will sound well, they 702 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,640 Speaker 1: will sound dramatic because they are. Number One, choose to 703 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:36,080 Speaker 1: declare war on selfishness, not like I want to try 704 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:37,800 Speaker 1: and be less selfish. I want to try to know. 705 00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 1: I'm going to declare war unselfishness. Do nothing from selfishness, 706 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:48,520 Speaker 1: nothing or empty conceit or self glory, but with humility 707 00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:52,680 Speaker 1: of mind, regard others as more important than yourself. Second attack, 708 00:42:53,000 --> 00:43:00,640 Speaker 1: the root problem of selfishness is pride. It's me, my me, 709 00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:06,040 Speaker 1: my world, my comfort, my stuff, my perspective, my opinion. 710 00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:12,600 Speaker 1: I declare before God by your grace, I do not 711 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,520 Speaker 1: want to be a selfish person. And I'm going to 712 00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:19,160 Speaker 1: ask you to show me where the pride is in 713 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:23,719 Speaker 1: my life, not anybody else out there. Third, choose to 714 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:28,560 Speaker 1: practice humility. And then here's the very daily by daily 715 00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,560 Speaker 1: putting others' needs ahead of your own. And I mean 716 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,160 Speaker 1: this is like I'm driving in the right lane and 717 00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,799 Speaker 1: someone passes us, as they all do, and they want 718 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,040 Speaker 1: to cut in, and we all want to move forward 719 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,640 Speaker 1: to say, hey, get in line like everyone else. You 720 00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:46,600 Speaker 1: go to the grocery store and you try and figure 721 00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:51,760 Speaker 1: out which line is the fastest you go to what's 722 00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,240 Speaker 1: going on at the people at work? When's the last 723 00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,839 Speaker 1: time someone brought bagels, brought coffee? When's the last time, 724 00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,279 Speaker 1: for your sake, you paid for the person behind you? 725 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:07,200 Speaker 1: How do you, in every little day ways practice humility 726 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,120 Speaker 1: and regard just and you have to go into training 727 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,680 Speaker 1: you change doesn't happen by trying hard and doing a 728 00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:18,920 Speaker 1: couple things today. You may need a little notebook. I'm 729 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,560 Speaker 1: going to practice humility by putting the needs of others, 730 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:25,880 Speaker 1: and a great place to start is your family or 731 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,920 Speaker 1: your roommate. Get up and make coffee for them and 732 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:32,440 Speaker 1: bring it to them. They're not your dishes. Go ahead 733 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,439 Speaker 1: and clean up the dishes and put them away, and 734 00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:39,319 Speaker 1: not wait for did you notice what I did? And 735 00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:44,600 Speaker 1: you know? In other words, in other words, servanthood is 736 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:48,239 Speaker 1: the mindset of humility. And then in summary, love's identity 737 00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,520 Speaker 1: is I am second. Just just come up with a 738 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:55,799 Speaker 1: you know it's it's okay. We live with selfishness. Me me, 739 00:44:55,800 --> 00:45:00,320 Speaker 1: me mys, I'm number one. How about I am set? 740 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:05,239 Speaker 1: And then remember that that is what Jesus said, The 741 00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:09,680 Speaker 1: Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve. 742 00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:13,680 Speaker 1: And I don't know how it works, but it's counterintuitive. 743 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:17,640 Speaker 1: As you begin to serve, as you are a friend, 744 00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,880 Speaker 1: as you give time, as you are thoughtful, as you 745 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:26,480 Speaker 1: give words of affirmation, give, you'll be given unto you. 746 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:32,080 Speaker 1: And so much of the anxiety, the joy, the peace 747 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:36,080 Speaker 1: that you long for, that you're wanting to get, get, 748 00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:41,360 Speaker 1: get is actually achieved, empowered by the Lord Jesus, the 749 00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:45,760 Speaker 1: person of the Holy Spirit. As in basic daily little 750 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:50,600 Speaker 1: things you give, give, give, and then you need a 751 00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:54,240 Speaker 1: friend to share that with, to rejoice when, and someone 752 00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,800 Speaker 1: to remind you this isn't a short fix. This is 753 00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,600 Speaker 1: a lifelong journey. Chip. 754 00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:05,680 Speaker 3: This has been positively amazing. I feel like, yeah, I 755 00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:09,880 Speaker 3: feel like you talk to me the entire time. Just 756 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:16,239 Speaker 3: so grateful for your words, the wisdom, the generosity. But 757 00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,799 Speaker 3: one of the things as we wrap, I realize, and 758 00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:23,480 Speaker 3: we always share this, that we understand that the listeners 759 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:26,520 Speaker 3: are busy and that a lot of the great things 760 00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:30,080 Speaker 3: that you were able to share will sometimes. 761 00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:31,760 Speaker 4: Just not stick in their memory. 762 00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:36,279 Speaker 3: So if there was one thing that you wanted one 763 00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:39,680 Speaker 3: of our listeners, all of our listeners to take away 764 00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:43,400 Speaker 3: and to remember something that you shared or maybe that 765 00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,799 Speaker 3: you hadn't yet gotten to, what would that be? 766 00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,360 Speaker 1: I would write down on a three x five card 767 00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:53,560 Speaker 1: or in the notes in my phone, or make it, 768 00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,239 Speaker 1: you know, whatever you call that thing on our phone 769 00:46:56,280 --> 00:47:01,279 Speaker 1: when we open it up. Love is giving another what 770 00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:05,319 Speaker 1: they need the most, when they deserve it the least 771 00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:09,480 Speaker 1: at great personal cost. And then underneath that, I would write, 772 00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:13,720 Speaker 1: Lord Jesus, make me that kind of a loving person. 773 00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,880 Speaker 1: So I'll say it one more time. Love is giving 774 00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:22,120 Speaker 1: another person what they need the most, when they deserve 775 00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:27,799 Speaker 1: it the least at great personal cost. Lord Jesus, make 776 00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:33,239 Speaker 1: me a more loving person today. And I think if 777 00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:37,240 Speaker 1: you renew your mind with that, you'll find yourself unconsciously 778 00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:44,040 Speaker 1: responding in some baby steps towards that that will encourage 779 00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:47,320 Speaker 1: you to keep doing it. Wow. 780 00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:49,799 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm going to put that phrase in the show 781 00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,760 Speaker 2: notes because it just makes me want to cry. So 782 00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:56,040 Speaker 2: I want to capture that for anybody else who wants 783 00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:59,560 Speaker 2: to see it written, who is driving somewhere while Chip 784 00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:03,280 Speaker 2: is talking. It's going to be in the show notes. Chip. 785 00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:08,520 Speaker 2: How can people find you, find your ministry, find the book. 786 00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:13,359 Speaker 1: If they want to listen to anything, obviously they can 787 00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:16,600 Speaker 1: Living on the Edge all one word dot org. There's 788 00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,120 Speaker 1: a website with all kinds of resources. The easiest way 789 00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:24,080 Speaker 1: if they go into the app store and just type 790 00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:27,480 Speaker 1: in my name, Chip Ingram. Every day's message for the 791 00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:31,040 Speaker 1: last six or seven months, every series, there's short videos 792 00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:34,440 Speaker 1: on discipleship, to learn, how to pray, share your faith, 793 00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:38,680 Speaker 1: all that. It's all for free, and those are probably 794 00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:43,360 Speaker 1: the easiest ways. We have podcast as well, and so 795 00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:46,719 Speaker 1: somewhere around the name Chip Ingram and somewhere Living on 796 00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,360 Speaker 1: the Edge, those they're kind of mixed here and there. 797 00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:52,880 Speaker 1: You'll find whatever we have and if we can be 798 00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,560 Speaker 1: of help, I think The book obviously is available at 799 00:48:55,920 --> 00:49:00,080 Speaker 1: you know, our place or Amazon or if there's any 800 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:03,960 Speaker 1: bookstores still left open where you are, Yes, yes, there 801 00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:08,799 Speaker 1: so anyway, But yeah, thank you for asking, Chatha. I 802 00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:09,640 Speaker 1: really appreciate that. 803 00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:14,000 Speaker 2: Good. I just thank you so much for coming on 804 00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:18,040 Speaker 2: the show today and sharing this incredibly important perspective. I'm 805 00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:24,239 Speaker 2: gonna I'm gonna encourage our listeners to check out I 806 00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:27,880 Speaker 2: Choose Love and figure out how to apply it to 807 00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:31,919 Speaker 2: each of our lives. And again we'll put the details 808 00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,880 Speaker 2: the book name everything in the show notes. If you 809 00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:38,799 Speaker 2: know of someone who needs to hear what Chip was 810 00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:41,320 Speaker 2: talking about today, because it's both us. 811 00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:43,600 Speaker 4: And those we love, which is everyone. 812 00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:47,000 Speaker 2: Which is everybody. I'm going to encourage everyone to share 813 00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:52,160 Speaker 2: today's episode with someone and tag us and tag Chip 814 00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:55,440 Speaker 2: on all your social media channels. Chip, thanks so much 815 00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:59,359 Speaker 2: for being with us, Thanks for listening to I wish 816 00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:02,520 Speaker 2: you could hear that. Remember to subscribe to our podcast, 817 00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,160 Speaker 2: and as always, forward today's audio or video link to 818 00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:13,000 Speaker 2: a friend, counselor, or pastor who would be encouraged. I 819 00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:15,400 Speaker 2: just want to take a second to thank the team 820 00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:18,799 Speaker 2: at Life Audio for their partnership with us on the podcast. 821 00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:22,080 Speaker 2: If you go to lifeaudio dot com, you will find 822 00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:25,719 Speaker 2: dozens of other faith centered podcasts in their network. They've 823 00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:29,680 Speaker 2: got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more.