Speaker 1: A specter is haunting America, the specter of socialism. We
Speaker 1: got a nasty preview of it during the COVID nineteen period.
Speaker 1: We experienced empty shelves, food shortages, limits on what you
Speaker 1: could buy, and also attacks on civil liberties, on freedom
Speaker 1: of assembly, on religious liberty, on privacy. We endured state
Speaker 1: propaganda's censorship and arbitrary societal controls. Some of us went
Speaker 1: along at first because we thought we could trust the
Speaker 1: health authorities. Many of us eventually figured out we were
Speaker 1: being lied to. A surprising number continued to act like sheep.
Speaker 1: Some even enjoyed it, and a few took pleasure in
Speaker 1: delivering Karen type scoldings to anyone who didn't conform. Looking back,
Speaker 1: it was pretty horrible, and yet it was relatively short lived.
Speaker 1: We suffered on a temporary basis. What under socialism we
Speaker 1: will suffer on a permanent basis. Yet socialism has somehow
Speaker 1: entered the mainstream of political debate. It started with Bernie Sanders,
Speaker 1: AOC Rashida talaib ilhan Omar. Now almost out of nowhere,
Speaker 1: we have Mom Donnie and his acolytes in New York,
Speaker 1: and also socialist candidates winning democratic primaries in other blue
Speaker 1: cities and blue areas. It's a trend that's likely to continue,
Speaker 1: and many people worried that socialism is the future of
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party, if not of America.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: These developments are surpassingly strange because socialism is arguably the
Speaker 1: most discredited idea since slavery. Slavery lasted for centuries, even
Speaker 1: millennia before it was recognized as a thoroughly wicked and
Speaker 1: tyrannical form of human exploitation. Socialism, which dates back to
Speaker 1: nineteen seventeen when Lenin founded the World's for a socialist state,
Speaker 1: has had a shorter shelf life. It too, collapsed around
Speaker 1: the world because it was understood by the people who
Speaker 1: lived under it to be a form of slavery. We
Speaker 1: see the connection between socialism and slavery in the all
Speaker 1: important works on socialism. Friedrich Hayek's critic of socialism is
Speaker 1: appropriately titled The Road to Serfdom. George Orwell depicted the
Speaker 1: tyrannical dimension of socialism in his two classic novels, Animal
Speaker 1: Farm and nineteen eighty four, using both the techniques of
Speaker 1: fiction and nonfiction. Alexander Sojanitsen, in a series of works
Speaker 1: The Gulag Archipelago One in the Life of Ivan Denizovitch
Speaker 1: depicted Soviet socialism as a vast network of slave camps
Speaker 1: stretching from Europe to the farthest reaches of Asia. Slavery
Speaker 1: in its most obvious form has been abolished worldwide, although
Speaker 1: enslavement in other forms, sex trafficking, for instance, continues as
Speaker 1: a gruesome relic of this barbaric practice. Even so, no
Speaker 1: serious person today could add advocate for the return of slavery.
Speaker 1: How ridiculous it would be to hear someone say the
Speaker 1: failures of slavery were all failures of implementation. This time,
Speaker 1: we're really gonna make it work. And yet here we
Speaker 1: have socialism in America attempting a comeback, and on precisely
Speaker 1: those terms. This time we're gonna get it right. Serious
Speaker 1: people advocate it. There's a sustained cultural push to promote it.
Speaker 1: A major political party is pushing aggressively toward it. How
Speaker 1: is this possible? Apparently, socialism means never having to say
Speaker 1: you're sorry. Socialism has proved to be a living hell
Speaker 1: pretty much every way it's been tried. It's been tried
Speaker 1: pretty much all over the world. Let's not forget that
Speaker 1: within about a century since Marx wrote, in less than
Speaker 1: half a century since the Bolshevik Revolution, sixty percent of
Speaker 1: the world's people were living under governments that embraced some
Speaker 1: form of socialism. At one time, Josh Morovchik writes, it
Speaker 1: was the most popular political idea ever invented, arguably the
Speaker 1: most popular idea of any kind about how life should
Speaker 1: be lived or society organized. The biggest socialist experiment was
Speaker 1: the Soviet Bloc, an orbit of countries including the Soviet Union, Poland, Yugoslavia, Albania, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria,
Speaker 1: and East Germany. Prior to the Soviet occupation of its
Speaker 1: eastern region, Germany tried its own distinct form of socialism,
Speaker 1: national socialism, or Nazism, which lasted for twelve years from
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty three to nineteen forty five. In Asia, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia,
Speaker 1: North Korea, and China all adopted socialism. In South America, Cuba, Nicaragua,
Speaker 1: Bolivia and Venezuela tried it. Most of Africa, and socialists
Speaker 1: in the aftermath of colonialism Angola, Ghana, Tanzania, Benin, Mali Mozambique, Zambia,
Speaker 1: and Zimbabwe. I count here about twenty five experiments in socialism,
Speaker 1: not one success story, all ending in un mitigated disaster.
Speaker 1: The worst forms of socialism proved not only totalitarian, but
Speaker 1: also murderous to an unprecedented degree. In the Soviet Union alone,
Speaker 1: socialist regimes killed some twenty million of their own citizens
Speaker 1: and enslaved tens of millions of others. The Chinese socialists
Speaker 1: in the period known as Mao's Cultural Revolution killed another
Speaker 1: twenty to twenty five million. The Nazis murdered in comparable numbers,
Speaker 1: including Jews and Gypsies and other occupied people's polls, Russians,
Speaker 1: Eastern Europeans, and others. Orwell's description from nineteen eighty four
Speaker 1: seems appropriate here quote a boot stamping on a human face.
Speaker 1: Socialist today, Bernice Sanders, Mamdani and the others disavow this
Speaker 1: historical record, insisting those were authoritarian forms of socialism that
Speaker 1: they have no intention of copying. While socialism may have
Speaker 1: been the economic program of communism in early fascism, modern
Speaker 1: socialists seek to dispense with the tyranny and merely keep
Speaker 1: the economic program. Yet it's worth stressing that socialism wasn't
Speaker 1: merely a political failure, it was also an economic failure.
Speaker 1: Now or Well somehow missed this. Interestingly, Neither of his
Speaker 1: two great works offers an economic critique of socialism. There's
Speaker 1: no economic problem in animal farm. The only problem is
Speaker 1: the pigs sees power in nineteen eighty four. The ruling
Speaker 1: party creates poverty and scarcity to keep people in line.
Speaker 1: We see something like this in our blue cities today.
Speaker 1: And Orwell was onto it. Yet great as he is,
Speaker 1: Orwell confines himself to a political critique. He exposes the
Speaker 1: totalitarian tendency of socialism, but he never shows how socialism
Speaker 1: creates this totalitarianism, and he leaves open the possibility of
Speaker 1: a more benign socialism that avoids it. In the real world. However,
Speaker 1: the political collapse of socialism was brought about by its
Speaker 1: economic failure. This was certainly true in the Soviet Union,
Speaker 1: where Gorbachev's rescue efforts Glossnost and Peristroika Remember those failed spectacularly,
Speaker 1: first bringing down the Soviet Union, then the Communist ruling party,
Speaker 1: and finally the socialist system itself. China, too, abandoned socialism
Speaker 1: for its economic shortcomings. And look how poorly socialism has
Speaker 1: fared economically in Cuba and Venezuela. So how can anyone
Speaker 1: adopt socialist ideas once again without considering the economic track
Speaker 1: record of socialist regimes. Rarely in history is there a
Speaker 1: chance to actually compare social systems to see which one
Speaker 1: works better. One might compare the Plantagenet kings of England
Speaker 1: with the Tang dynasty in China. But even if you
Speaker 1: line up the dates, you're talking about two completely different societies,
Speaker 1: different people, different culture. Consequently, England's superiority and China's inferiority
Speaker 1: or the other way around, can hardly be attributed to
Speaker 1: their rival systems of governments, and so many other factors
Speaker 1: are involved. In the case of socialism. However, we have
Speaker 1: two perfect test cases, North and South Korea and East
Speaker 1: and West Germany. The perfection of these examples comes from
Speaker 1: the fact that we're dealing with the same people, same background,
Speaker 1: same culture, merely two rival economic systems. North Korea socialist,
Speaker 1: South Korea capitalist, East Germany was socialist, West Germany capitalist,
Speaker 1: And when the results came in, they were decisive at
Speaker 1: reunification the per capita gross domestic product and socialist East
Speaker 1: Germany was just about one third of the capitalist West
Speaker 1: German level, with other measures of economic performance showing a
Speaker 1: similar chasm. Even the poorest part of West Germany was
Speaker 1: two and a half times as wealthy as the richest
Speaker 1: East German region, which was Saxony. To this day, East
Speaker 1: Germany gets nearly fifteen percent of its domestic product in
Speaker 1: net transfers from the western part of Germany. The North
Speaker 1: Korean example is even more telling, in part because the
Speaker 1: separation of the two societies has lasted long and continues
Speaker 1: to this day. North Korea is now more than twenty
Speaker 1: times richer than North Korea, a difference manifested and virtually
Speaker 1: all indicators of human welfare. South Koreans are obviously freer
Speaker 1: than North Koreans, but they also are happier. Have you
Speaker 1: ever seen a North Korean smile? South Koreans are also taller, healthier,
Speaker 1: They live about twelve years longer than North Koreans. Every year,
Speaker 1: thousands of North Koreans risk their lives seeking to escape
Speaker 1: to South Korea. I realize, of course, that today's socialist
Speaker 1: in America insists they want socialism of a particular kind,
Speaker 1: democratic socialism, so not any kind of socialism, but democratic socialism.
Speaker 1: I grew up under Indian socialism, which was democratic socialism,
Speaker 1: and experienced its two signature institutions. The first was everyday corruption,
Speaker 1: literally nothing could be done without paying some petty bureaucrat
Speaker 1: under the table. The second was the ration card, which
Speaker 1: specified the paltry ration of sugar or cooking oil that
Speaker 1: a family was permitted to purchase each month. Ah Yes,
Speaker 1: and during this period in the nineteen seventies, there was
Speaker 1: a seven year wait to get a phone. India was
Speaker 1: for decades known as the begging bowl of the world.
Speaker 1: Americans stole their children. Eat your food because there are
Speaker 1: millions of starving people in India. A whole generation of
Speaker 1: Indians saw no future for themselves and fled to see
Speaker 1: like my brother, or to Dubai to do manual labor
Speaker 1: like some of my cousins, or to Australia, Canada and
Speaker 1: America like me. Today's young Indians plan no such mass
Speaker 1: exit because there are now opportunities for them at home.
Speaker 1: India is doing measurably better and now there's a large
Speaker 1: and prosperous middle class. Now how did this change come about?
Speaker 1: Through economic liberalization otherwise known as free market capitalism. China
Speaker 1: came up the same way, starting in the late nineteen
Speaker 1: seventies when Dun Shaping abandoned the socialism of Mao for
Speaker 1: a new brand of capitalism, and doing so, the Chinese
Speaker 1: inaugurated a new experiment in social organization. Call it totalitarian capitals.
Speaker 1: The Chinese married communist political control to free market liberalization.
Speaker 1: It's a weird marriage, but in economic terms it has worked.
Speaker 1: If socialism has produced a worldwide record of misery and tears,
Speaker 1: and if countries must lead socialism to experience prosperity, what
Speaker 1: then are the American socialists up too? Why would they
Speaker 1: want to import misery and tears? Why would they want
Speaker 1: a system that has never worked before and shows no
Speaker 1: indication of working now. The short answer is it does work,
Speaker 1: but not in the way that we expect. Viewed from
Speaker 1: the point of view of society, socialism is an abject failure.
Speaker 1: It doesn't work. The socialists too, no, deep down that
Speaker 1: it doesn't work, but they don't care because it works
Speaker 1: for them. Viewed from the perspective of the socialists, socialism
Speaker 1: is an effective scheme to gain money and power. Think
Speaker 1: about it this way. Socialists like Bernie sanders AND's or
Speaker 1: on Mom Donnie are not productive people. They have rarely,
Speaker 1: if ever, held real jobs. They have never started a business.
Speaker 1: They wouldn't know how to begin doing that. Their record
Speaker 1: of innovation is a null set. They are, from the
Speaker 1: entrepreneurial perspective, useless people. But this does not mean they
Speaker 1: are untalented, nor does it mean they are unproductive. They
Speaker 1: are incapable of producing goods or services, but they are
Speaker 1: skilled at producing resentment. They are masters at cultivating envy.
Speaker 1: They are talented in spreading hatred against people who are productive.
Speaker 1: So what we're seeing in places like New York and
Speaker 1: increasingly around the country is a contest of elites. The
Speaker 1: socialists don't market it that way. They marketed as the
Speaker 1: elites versus the people, But in no society have the
Speaker 1: people ever ruled themselves. All societies, whether monarchies or aristocracies
Speaker 1: or democracies, are run by elites. Socialism represents the effort
Speaker 1: on a part of the activist elite, the professors, the journalists,
Speaker 1: the community organizer types, to seize power from the entrepreneurial elite,
Speaker 1: the group that actually drives the wealth of a society.
Speaker 1: The socialist scheme is to seize that wealth by capitalizing
Speaker 1: on people's incomprehension about how the wealth is created and
Speaker 1: the natural human desire to grab what is in yours
Speaker 1: through some self serving illusion that you are entitled to it.
Speaker 1: Socialism spreads this gospel of entitlement, but not really for
Speaker 1: the people's benefit, but rather to recruit the people into
Speaker 1: a scheme that will turn the reins of society over
Speaker 1: to the socialists. This is how socialism proves to be
Speaker 1: highly profitable to the Ilhan and Omars and Bernie Sandros types.
Speaker 1: They have mastered the art of what may be called
Speaker 1: political entrepreneurship. I'm confident in the end America will reject socialism,
Speaker 1: but that's only because the large majority of Americans know
Speaker 1: that socialism is in fact a form of slavery. And
Speaker 1: just as Republicans had to defeat slavery by defeating the
Speaker 1: Democrats in a civil war, you must defeat the Democrats
Speaker 1: again on this barbarous idea of socialism. And that's the
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Speaker 1: paying more than you should, guys. I'm delighted to welcome
Speaker 1: Maria Corina Machado. She has been described as the hope
Speaker 1: of Venezuela. Trained as an engineer, she became the leading
Speaker 1: opposition figure in the country, and the socialist regime, first
Speaker 1: Chavez then Maduro feared her. And we know this because
Speaker 1: she was subjected to physical attack. I've seen pictures of
Speaker 1: her bruised face. She was also banned from contesting the
Speaker 1: election because they were well, they kind of knew she
Speaker 1: was going to win. And a superstar in Venezuela, she
Speaker 1: became a global superstar when she won the Nobel Prize
Speaker 1: for Peace. Maria Corina, what an honor. Thank you for
Speaker 1: joining me. Delighted to have you. I'd like to begin
Speaker 1: by drawing a contrast between you and the woman who
Speaker 1: is currently running Venezuela, and that is Delsi Rodriguez. Most
Speaker 1: Americans don't know much about Delsi. Can you draw a
Speaker 1: contrast between you and Delsi Rodriguez in terms of what
Speaker 1: you believe about Venezuela, about principles and also about the
Speaker 1: United States.
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, thank you so Muchness. I'm honored
Speaker 2: to share this time to you and grateful to convey
Speaker 2: our feelings from as maniform people to American people, because,
Speaker 2: first of all, we are so grateful for what President
Speaker 2: Trump did on January third. I mean, it's been twenty
Speaker 2: seven years of socialist, communist and criminal devastation of a
Speaker 2: nation that used to be a great ally of the
Speaker 2: United States. Because, after all, ven Swans and Americans share
Speaker 2: the same values for and faith and and you know,
Speaker 2: love for family, for freedom, for prosperity, for you know, justice.
Speaker 2: Ven Swans have always been very close to American values,
Speaker 2: and we will turn Venezuela back again into the strongest
Speaker 2: allies of the United States. Do not doubt that regarding
Speaker 2: your question, del Rodriguez is part of the criminal regime
Speaker 2: of Nicolasma Luo and Ubo Childs. They turned one of
Speaker 2: the wealthiest nations in the region in one of the poorest.
Speaker 2: Women Their main allies are the enemies of the United States, Iran, Russia,
Speaker 2: China and Cuba. The communist regime of Cuba mentored these individuals,
Speaker 2: including the Rodigas, and she was a mainly a son
Speaker 2: with these other regimes around the world. She gave Venezuelan institutions,
Speaker 2: territory and resources to turn our country into the hub
Speaker 2: in the criminal hub of these enemies of the United States.
Speaker 2: And she herself was the one who overlooked the civilian
Speaker 2: torture and repressive system that took place during decades and
Speaker 2: had thousands killed, thousands in prisons, thousands disappeared just for
Speaker 2: speaking out our ideas. So you know, it is obvious
Speaker 2: for the Venezuelan people what she is, what she represents.
Speaker 2: She hates what the United States is and the values
Speaker 2: the United States promotes, and that's why she is totally
Speaker 2: rejected by our people. On the other hand, we want
Speaker 2: Venezuela to be free, but most of all to be
Speaker 2: a land of grace where our children, by the millions
Speaker 2: who have left, can come back and build together a
Speaker 2: true alliance with the United States that will make this
Speaker 2: elasting and robust partnership not also in security, but also
Speaker 2: in energy, trade and culture.
Speaker 1: Maria Karina. There are some Americans who say Venezuela is
Speaker 1: a gangster regime. It was run by these narco traffickers.
Speaker 1: But it is wrong to blame socialism for the collapse
Speaker 1: and ruin of Venezuela. Can you make the case for
Speaker 1: why we're dealing not just with ordinary gangsters and criminals
Speaker 1: who are robbers and thieves, but we're also dealing with
Speaker 1: an ideology here that is, as you say, aligned with
Speaker 1: the ideology of Cuba.
Speaker 2: Well, there is. If there is one regime in which
Speaker 2: there can be no doubt whatsoever that they have been
Speaker 2: inspired by communists and socialist ideas, is precisely Ugo chal
Speaker 2: Nicola Maludu and and you just have to see what
Speaker 2: they have said up until January third, and what they
Speaker 2: have done during these twenty seven years. I mean, they
Speaker 2: went against the private sector. They took over enterprises, businesses,
Speaker 2: private property, They took it for themselves for those cronies
Speaker 2: around Ugo, Chadistrodrigaz and so on. They went against the media,
Speaker 2: nobody could speak out. They went again freedom in all
Speaker 2: their ways, including education. They decided to ideologize Venezuelan education,
Speaker 2: which used to be one of the best in the region,
Speaker 2: and turn it into an ideologized system in which they
Speaker 2: wanted to infiltrate socialist ideas in all our children. It
Speaker 2: actually turned out to be one of the strongest movements
Speaker 2: against the regime came from teachers and parents to defaned
Speaker 2: our children. So they have been systematically building a socialist,
Speaker 2: communist system that has a whole set of a bunch
Speaker 2: of laws that has to be totally dismantled in order
Speaker 2: to bring justice to Venezuela. Currently, Venezuela, the net, I
Speaker 2: don't know if you're aware, is in the last place
Speaker 2: worldwide in rule of law. Out of one hundred and
Speaker 2: forty three countries that are ranked by the World Justice Project,
Speaker 2: Venezuela is in the last place because the regime took
Speaker 2: over every single institution, and that's why they forced a
Speaker 2: third of our population to flee the country. That was
Speaker 2: intentionally done and impoverished the population. Eighty six percent of Venezuelans,
Speaker 2: even though we have, you know, the largest proven oil
Speaker 2: reserves in the world, eighty six percent of our people
Speaker 2: living poverty and that's the result of communists and socialist period.
Speaker 1: Would you say that these recent catastrophic earthquakes, two of
Speaker 1: them happening almost simultaneously and producing enormous devastation in an
Speaker 1: area very right near Caracas and including Caracas. Has that
Speaker 1: further exposed for the Venezuelan people that this regime simply
Speaker 1: A doesn't know how to man any of this, but
Speaker 1: b doesn't even really care. I saw a number of
Speaker 1: videos of people in Venezuela, Venezuelan, so they were just saying, basically,
Speaker 1: we are digging with our own hands. The regime is
Speaker 1: nowhere to be seen, and if they ever show up,
Speaker 1: it's only to do a photo opportunity to make it
Speaker 1: look like they're doing something, but they're actually doing almost nothing.
Speaker 2: That's absolutely true. This catastrophe is a breaking point that
Speaker 2: has no way back, because, of course an earthquake is
Speaker 2: a natural event, but the scale of this disaster has
Speaker 2: political reasons, and it's not only the fact, you say,
Speaker 2: the absolute absence of the state. Imagine a catastrophe of
Speaker 2: this magnitude where there are tens of thousands of people missing,
Speaker 2: and during the first three days, those seventy two hours
Speaker 2: are critical to save lives. No one from the state
Speaker 2: appeared in ground zero. There were several areas in Venezuela
Speaker 2: that were severely affected. There were only civilians people helping
Speaker 2: each other, as you say, digging with their own hands.
Speaker 2: And when the state finally appeared, they started blocking support,
Speaker 2: threatening those that were helped giving support to each other.
Speaker 2: They even stopped rescue missions from international groups to come
Speaker 2: to Venezuela. They blocked that. And not only that, many
Speaker 2: of the buildings that collapse were public housing projects of
Speaker 2: Wachildism and maludu, and it was determined by engineers that
Speaker 2: they lack the basic seismic conditions and standards. So what
Speaker 2: has this has brought to Venezuela. No fear turned into indignation,
Speaker 2: and indignation into rage, and it is certainly increased the
Speaker 2: urgency because it's evident this regime not only las capacity
Speaker 2: and it's absolutely incompetent, but its lack of humanity and compassion.
Speaker 2: So it's cruelty was exposed in a way that Venezuelans
Speaker 2: are not going to forget or forgive.
Speaker 1: The Trump administration appears to have a strategy of trying
Speaker 1: to work with these gangsters, work with these socialists to
Speaker 1: stabilize the country and then push for free elections. Maybe
Speaker 1: some of the some of that is driven by a
Speaker 1: fear of what happened in Iraq in Afghanistan. In other words,
Speaker 1: how do you help to bring democracy to those countries.
Speaker 1: But it seems to me that Venezuela is different than
Speaker 1: Iraq and Afghanistan in the sense that it had democracy.
Speaker 1: It has a constitutional system that in fact is not
Speaker 1: all that different from the United States.
Speaker 2: And so go ahead, no, no, go ahead, no, you
Speaker 2: go ahead.
Speaker 1: Well, I was going to say, my greatest fear has
Speaker 1: to do with the elections and the integrity of the elections.
Speaker 1: You know all too well better than anyone else because
Speaker 1: you were there. There was a two thousand and four
Speaker 1: recall election for Ugo Chavez. The polls showed that the
Speaker 1: side of the recall getting rid of him was winning decisively.
Speaker 1: Mysteriously he came out ahead. There have been a lot
Speaker 1: of questions surrounding election integrity in Venezuela. You know again
Speaker 1: that Delsa Rodriguez's own brother is very involved in that
Speaker 1: election system. Are you confident that in an election where
Speaker 1: you would be the decisive favorite to win, that they
Speaker 1: will allow a free election or do you think that
Speaker 1: these issues with election rigging and election manipulation are still
Speaker 1: serious problems in Venezuela.
Speaker 2: Well, your question is very good and very complex. It
Speaker 2: has two elements, the element of stability, and I totally
Speaker 2: agree with Presidents Tromp approach in terms of having stability
Speaker 2: and learning the lessons from the mistakes in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Speaker 2: But as you say, in the case of Venezuela, we
Speaker 2: not only have a long democratic culture, but unlike some
Speaker 2: of these societies, we have no divisions, religious visions, racial divisions,
Speaker 2: social divisions on the country. I would say Venezuela is
Speaker 2: perhaps the most cohesive society in the in the region today.
Speaker 2: And also we are you know, we have a civic
Speaker 2: organization that is remarkable. Remember we were able to carry
Speaker 2: a national election in twenty twenty three where we had
Speaker 2: the primary process and all done without the state, without
Speaker 2: the regime, without the media, without the military. It was
Speaker 2: done by people organizing their community grassroots. So, you know,
Speaker 2: the Venezuelan people that have endured the worst condisance ever,
Speaker 2: as you mentioned, because certainly, and we have talked about
Speaker 2: this in the past, you know, elections have been ripped
Speaker 2: under were fraudulent for years in Venezuela and we weren't
Speaker 2: being able, we hadn't been able to prove it. That's
Speaker 2: why when we see the osade opportunity the presidential elections
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four, we said, this is going to
Speaker 2: be different. Now we knew we had the support of
Speaker 2: the people seventy percent or more, but the conditions were
Speaker 2: absolutely frauvalent. How could we overcome that? And that's why
Speaker 2: we created several programs and projects six hundred k the
Speaker 2: Command Deitos. Over one million people were trained, organized, and
Speaker 2: we were able to prove the results, gather the original talishits,
Speaker 2: founting the votes, and being able to prove it to
Speaker 2: the world. So we won by a landslide under the
Speaker 2: worst conditions possible. Madudo was still in power. Now Delsi
Speaker 2: Rodriez is following President Trump's orders, so few won't be
Speaker 2: able to stop a process such as that that brings stability,
Speaker 2: prosperity to Venezuela and, most importantly, in the case of
Speaker 2: the United States, a trustable, reliable partner. Because that stability
Speaker 2: that you mentioned, you need to make it long lasting,
Speaker 2: and the way to do that is having legitimacy and
Speaker 2: the support of the people.
Speaker 1: You, Maria Karina, did something that I think astonished many
Speaker 1: people in the world. You won one of the most
Speaker 1: coveted prizes there is, namely the Nobel Prize for Peace,
Speaker 1: and in a gesture of incredible humility, you offered the
Speaker 1: prize to President Trump at President Trump was not allergic
Speaker 1: to credits like thank you very much, thank you very much. Now,
Speaker 1: you did that, I think in a personal way, but
Speaker 1: you were also I think far reaching and strategic in
Speaker 1: doing that. Can you talk a little bit just about
Speaker 1: your mental process of making this surprising decision. Even some
Speaker 1: of the Nobel Committee was a little flustered when they
Speaker 1: heard it to sort of receive this great award and
Speaker 1: then go, hey, President Trump, here you go.
Speaker 2: Well, you know that, in fact, it was very easy
Speaker 2: for me. It was very natural. I think, you know,
Speaker 2: the only chief of state in the world that has
Speaker 2: risked the lives of some of his citizens for the
Speaker 2: freedom of Venezuela is Donald Trump. So I believe it's
Speaker 2: absolutely fair and just and proper. And I didn't on
Speaker 2: the name of the Vanishulan people because at the end,
Speaker 2: I don't think the prize was just for me. The
Speaker 2: prize was for a society that did a remarkable journey
Speaker 2: of a struggle for dignity, for justice, for freedom, and
Speaker 2: for love, and that was recognized by the world. But
Speaker 2: in order to materialize that in a real victory, historic victory,
Speaker 2: we certainly need the United States and present from made
Speaker 2: that decision. So you know, for me, it was a
Speaker 2: great encounter. We had a great conversation. We shared many things,
Speaker 2: the way, the things this has endured, the persecutions in justice,
Speaker 2: having you know, been accused of false events and being
Speaker 2: blocked from participating. You know, it's the same things I
Speaker 2: have suffered. But at the end I told him, you know,
Speaker 2: we will prevail. And yes, what he did on January third,
Speaker 2: from a military perspective was impeccable. And now we can
Speaker 2: turn that into his historic absolutely his historic event, which
Speaker 2: is turning a criminal hob into the beacon of hope
Speaker 2: and security for the national security of the United States
Speaker 2: and the hemisphere. And that's what it's ahead of us,
Speaker 2: and that's why I'm so confident that we will make
Speaker 2: this happen. And the Venezuelan people will always be grateful.
Speaker 1: Your country has been in dire straits now for a
Speaker 1: quarter of a century. I believe og Chabas was elected
Speaker 1: the very nineteen ninety nine something like that, and so
Speaker 1: you've had twenty five years of socialist destruction. It would
Speaker 1: seem to be easier to tear a country down than
Speaker 1: to build it up. If and when, I believe, when
Speaker 1: you are at the helm, what would be two or
Speaker 1: three of the most important things to do to put
Speaker 1: Venezuela on the road to prosperity, on the road to recovery,
Speaker 1: to have a real change of direction.
Speaker 2: Look the next We are so eager to do that.
Speaker 2: We've been preparing our teams for years, and I'm talking
Speaker 2: about thousands and thousands of people Venezuelans that have been
Speaker 2: forced to flee and that have been working and studying
Speaker 2: and being entrepreneurs, and that are desperate to go back,
Speaker 2: and they will only do it when there's a future
Speaker 2: of freedom and democracy. And also those that have stayed
Speaker 2: and resisted and are so receealient. So we have great
Speaker 2: teams ready to put Venezuela on our feet back again.
Speaker 2: And the first thing we need to do is we
Speaker 2: need to recover trust in our institutions. We had already
Speaker 2: built trust among us the citizens, which you know, the
Speaker 2: socialist communist regime have had destroyed. We already built that
Speaker 2: now need to be on institutions. So I would say
Speaker 2: the third thing we need to do is bring orders.
Speaker 2: Rigacy is chaos. I mean, everything they do is a disaster.
Speaker 2: We need to put order. We need to bring rule
Speaker 2: of law, institutions, security for the people. Secondly, we need prosperity.
Speaker 2: People need to live well with their own effort, not
Speaker 2: on hangouts from from the stage or abroad. So we
Speaker 2: need to bring respect to private property. We need to
Speaker 2: open the markets. We need to dismantle completely the socially
Speaker 2: system that has stopped you know, investment in Venezuela, so
Speaker 2: that we can create employment and and and and you know,
Speaker 2: and and create wealth for for the whole population as
Speaker 2: well as for partners. And third the people, the people
Speaker 2: are in the center. We need you know, state that
Speaker 2: proved not to be able to protect the lives in
Speaker 2: a catastrophe, as to be able to offer dignity from
Speaker 2: day one when our children are born, when our elderly
Speaker 2: are pass away. We need to have the best education system,
Speaker 2: the best health system, in which we will bring private
Speaker 2: sector involved, to have competitiveness, to be transparent, and to
Speaker 2: make the individual really autonomous. So that we will bring
Speaker 2: we will build institutions, the net that will last for
Speaker 2: centuries to come. That's our plan and we're ready to.
Speaker 1: Do it, you know, as we close out the bigger picture.
Speaker 1: As I see it is that the whole continent is
Speaker 1: at a crossroads, and it looks to me like there
Speaker 1: are powerful leftists and socialist forces lulah for example, in Brazil.
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, there has been a free
Speaker 1: market and also a kind of pro American wave that
Speaker 1: we have seen sweeping the continent places like Peru, Chile,
Speaker 1: and now it seems El Salvador, of course, with Argentina,
Speaker 1: with Malay. Do you think that Venezuela can would look
Speaker 1: forward to being part of this kind of grand alliance
Speaker 1: of pro American and free market nations, perhaps even being
Speaker 1: a leadership role of that coalition. Would you, as a
Speaker 1: leader of Venezuela be a champion of that?
Speaker 2: But absolutely, because we have been very much involved in
Speaker 2: these you know, successes taking place. We have been very
Speaker 2: much involved in supporting political parties, civic groups. We have
Speaker 2: given them all or you know, advice and lessons. Because
Speaker 2: remember photo the Zabbablo, which is a socialist structure that
Speaker 2: was funded mainly by Ugo childists and with the Cuban
Speaker 2: Advice trying to take over all these you know, institutions,
Speaker 2: take over governments around the region, and it reached pointing
Speaker 2: with sixteen countries in the Americas were part of this
Speaker 2: socialist network and you know the struggle of the people.
Speaker 2: And I have to say the devastation of Venezuela served
Speaker 2: also as a horrible example for many of these countries
Speaker 2: to react. And as you say, we have now great
Speaker 2: friends in Paraguay, within Devopena, in Argentina with Avier Mile,
Speaker 2: in Chile, with Antonio task in Ecuadora, with Dania Novoa.
Speaker 2: Now we have Takeo Fujimori in Peru, a Leasbriela and
Speaker 2: Colombia in Panamara Molino. I mean, there are in South
Speaker 2: America and Central America true leaders that understand that the
Speaker 2: only way to have sustainable prosperity and security is with
Speaker 2: the ideas of freedom and giving power to the people.
Speaker 2: And they are helping us as well. And they are
Speaker 2: they're my friends who are working together. And you can
Speaker 2: be assured that Venezuela, as you say, not only will
Speaker 2: be part, but will be a main leader of these
Speaker 2: strong alliance for prosperity, freedom and democracy in partnership with
Speaker 2: the United States. And not only Venezuela will be freed,
Speaker 2: we will also have a free Cuba, and a free
Speaker 2: ni Cadawa, and and and you know, the nash For
Speaker 2: the first time in history, we will have the Americas
Speaker 2: free of communism and dictatorship. And that's a great legacy.
Speaker 2: President Trump will leave for this heavy sphere, and I
Speaker 2: would say for humanity.
Speaker 1: I was introduced to you, Maria Karina, through my wife Debbie,
Speaker 1: and I've also gotten to know the sort of Venezuelan
Speaker 1: spirit over the past decade or so. I have never
Speaker 1: seen a people who are more fanatically attached to their country.
Speaker 1: And I know that although we have been afraid to
Speaker 1: go to Venezuela under the current conditions, if and when
Speaker 1: you are back in office, we would like to visit you.
Speaker 1: And I am quite sure that as Debbie sets foot
Speaker 1: into your office, she's going to ball and burst into tears.
Speaker 1: So we look forward under happy conditions to seeing you soon.
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining me, Maria Coriina Machado. It's been
Speaker 1: a real pleasure and an honor.
Speaker 2: It's my pleasure. Thank you very much. All the best
Speaker 2: to Debbie, love you very much.
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Speaker 1: dot substack dot com. The stones cry out. Biblical archaeology
Speaker 1: has the power to take people and events that have
Speaker 1: for centuries been regarded as matters of faith and now
Speaker 1: established them as matters of fact for the first time,
Speaker 1: we do not merely believe we know. Throughout the world,
Speaker 1: many regard the Bible as a mythical or fictional account
Speaker 1: of people who never existed in events that never happen,
Speaker 1: and many of the most astonishing discoveries have occurred recently,
Speaker 1: with new discoveries continually being made. If the people and
Speaker 1: events in the Bible can be verified and verified moreover
Speaker 1: from sources hostile to the Biblical figures themselves, that counts
Speaker 1: for a lot. Are there any significant archaeological findings that
Speaker 1: contradict or refute the Bible. If the answer is no,
Speaker 1: then our confidence in the Old were all truth of
Speaker 1: the Bible, is greatly strengthened.