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Speaker 1: Life Audio.

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Speaker 2: You are listening to The Beckett Cook Show with your host,

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Speaker 2: Beckett Cook. For more information about Beckett and his ministry,

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Speaker 2: visit his website at beckettcook.com. To help support the podcast,

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Speaker 2: visit patreon.com slash thebeckettcookshow. Please consider subscribing to the podcast

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Speaker 2: and leaving a five-star rating. Hey, guys.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to the show. Today, I have a special guest,

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Speaker 3: Spencer Bolio. And I'm a little under the weather today.

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Speaker 3: The weather in LA has been crazy. It's been like

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Speaker 3: super hot. And then it suddenly shifted to super cold

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Speaker 3: in the middle of the night two nights ago and

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Speaker 3: last night. And I woke up with kind of a cold.

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Speaker 3: But the show must go on. Spencer Bolio has an

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Speaker 3: amazing story. He got caught up in the inside B

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Speaker 3: theology for a while. And fortunately he escaped that cult.

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Speaker 3: And we're going to get into all of that and

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Speaker 3: watch till the end, because I'm going to ask him

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Speaker 3: to do something special. He's an amazing singer songwriter. And

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Speaker 3: so watch till the end. Also, as of today, which

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Speaker 3: is Monday, October 12th, we have 193,124 subscribers and which

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Speaker 3: means we're only 6,876 subscribers away from 200,000 subscribers. So

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Speaker 3: please help us get over that hump and please subscribe.

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Speaker 3: But first, a word from our sponsor. Welcome, Spencer Beaulieu.

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Speaker 4: Hey, good to meet you.

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Speaker 3: Good to meet you. I'm glad to have you on. Finally,

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Speaker 3: we tried to get together last week. It was like

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Speaker 3: 100,000 degrees in my apartment and we literally couldn't do it.

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Speaker 3: So I couldn't do it. So I'm glad you're here.

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Speaker 3: And I want to hear your full story and my

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Speaker 3: audience to hear your story. And as I mentioned in

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Speaker 3: the intro, we have a special surprise at the end

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Speaker 3: of this episode, so please watch to the end. So

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Speaker 3: start with your childhood. You were born and raised in Boise, Idaho,

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Speaker 3: in a Christian.

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Speaker 4: Family, right?

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Speaker 5: Yes.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Boise, Idaho.

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Speaker 5: I think my story just doesn't look at all like

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Speaker 5: at first, like people would expect from someone dealing with

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Speaker 5: same sex attraction and growing through that, because my parents

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Speaker 5: are incredible.

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Speaker 4: We're incredible, are incredible.

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Speaker 5: Um, they raised us triplet kids of a triplet, a

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Speaker 5: triplet brother and a triplet sister.

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Speaker 4: So it was wild. That's amazing, by the way.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And so what, what were you, were you regular churchgoers

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Speaker 3: as kids? Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. The two, three times a week type of church goers.

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Speaker 3: That's, that's great. So, and then, uh, what was, when,

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Speaker 3: when you were a little kid, like, when did you

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Speaker 3: start to believe that? I mean, did you immediately, did

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Speaker 3: you just instantly believe that God was real or like,

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Speaker 3: when did you actually believe?

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Speaker 5: Oh, that one's, that one was hard for me because

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Speaker 5: My whole life, and I'll get to it more later,

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Speaker 5: but I was such a skeptical kid. Everyone around me

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Speaker 5: was a believer, but I remember being four years old,

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Speaker 5: going to a Bible study, and the kids part of it,

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Speaker 5: they would tell us to sit down, crisscross applesauce, and

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Speaker 5: they would open the Bible, and they'd say, this story

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Speaker 5: is not make-believe.

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Speaker 4: It's not a fairy tale. It's the word of God.

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Speaker 4: It's real.

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Speaker 5: And I remember thinking at that age, I was four,

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Speaker 5: thinking like, you have to say all that?

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Speaker 4: It sounds like you're trying to convince me of something.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah.

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Speaker 5: So I always wanted to believe, but I, I probably

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Speaker 5: said the sinner's prayer like over a hundred times throughout

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Speaker 5: my childhood because I just never knew, do I have

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Speaker 5: real saving faith? Do I really believe, or do I

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Speaker 5: just think I believe?

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Speaker 4: I don't, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 7: Okay.

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Speaker 3: And so, uh, I guess we'll get to when you

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Speaker 3: actually realize you actually believed. So, and then what, There's

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Speaker 3: a major complication in this situation when you discovered that

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Speaker 3: you were attracted to the same sex, right? What was

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Speaker 3: that like? How old were you? Did you tell your parents?

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Speaker 3: What was that like?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, for me, it started as a very small kid

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Speaker 5: feeling different. During my college years, I would look back

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Speaker 5: at those years and think, oh, that was because I

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Speaker 5: was gay. But now I look back And I see

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Speaker 5: it through a whole different lens of like disconnect that

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Speaker 5: was forming between me and my sense of being a

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Speaker 5: boy or being a man.

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Speaker 4: In a true way.

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Speaker 5: Not that I thought I was a girl, but there

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Speaker 5: were things that made me not feel adequate as a

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Speaker 5: man or, or a kid or boy in that sense.

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Speaker 5: So like, I remember my mom, for example, she took

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Speaker 5: this pasta out of the fridge and realized that I

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Speaker 5: had some mold in the back corner of it and.

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Speaker 4: Was smelling it, trying to see if it was okay.

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Speaker 5: And before she could say anything, my dad just jumps

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Speaker 5: in and like takes a bite out of it and just,

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Speaker 5: you know, throws it down. And she's like, oh, that's disgusting.

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Speaker 4: Men will eat anything.

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Speaker 5: And I remember watching that thinking I would never have

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Speaker 5: eaten that, you know, it might've had mold on it.

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Speaker 4: I would, there's no way I would do that.

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Speaker 5: So am I really like moving in the direction of

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Speaker 5: my dad towards being a man or am I like,

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Speaker 5: so these are kind of dumb examples, but it was,

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Speaker 5: a lot of little things like that over time just

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Speaker 5: kind of made me feel different.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, when you, and so when you reflect back on,

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Speaker 3: on your childhood, I mean, this is like a hard

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Speaker 3: thing to pinpoint obviously, but like, what do you think

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Speaker 3: led to same sex attraction? Like what do you think

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Speaker 3: it was?

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Speaker 4: Yeah. For me, I think there's two things.

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Speaker 5: Um, one would be a sense of gender, insecurity, just

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Speaker 5: being insecure, gender inferiority, not feeling like I measure up or,

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Speaker 5: you know, I'm enough as a boy. Um, that combined with,

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Speaker 5: I was so competitive as a kid that I had

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Speaker 5: to be the best at everything. So there was this

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Speaker 5: envy that I had, um, towards any guy that like,

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Speaker 5: I was actually decently athletic, but if someone was more

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Speaker 5: athletic than me, I'd feel like I was nothing. And

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Speaker 5: then I just wanted to be like that guy so bad.

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Speaker 4: So I think it's that.

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Speaker 5: Like consistent competitiveness going too far and envy. And then

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Speaker 5: also feeling kind of, um, just fundamentally different from my

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Speaker 5: triplet brother and my dad in like an emotional way.

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Speaker 5: Like my personality was just more similar to my mom.

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Speaker 5: And I would have longer, deeper talks on average with

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Speaker 5: like my sister or my mom than I would with, with, uh, my,

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Speaker 5: my dad and brother. So it felt like these factors

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Speaker 5: were just slowly building over time into, and, Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Go ahead.

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Speaker 3: And so you had just like a more of a

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Speaker 3: sensitive temperament than your brother and sister, maybe your brother,

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Speaker 3: you had more of a, and how did your dad

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Speaker 3: respond to that sensitivity?

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Great.

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Speaker 4: In a lot of ways.

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Speaker 5: It's funny because he's an incredible dad, but neither of

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Speaker 5: us knew the ways that we were kind of disconnecting

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Speaker 5: at like a deeper emotional conversational level, because I was

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Speaker 5: learning who I was as a person.

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Speaker 4: He was learning who I was as a person. And

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Speaker 4: neither of us knew who I was yet. And so

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Speaker 4: I think we were.

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Speaker 5: Just kind of late in that process a little bit.

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Speaker 5: And we didn't even realize anything was starting to, any

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Speaker 5: distance was starting to grow between us at like an

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Speaker 5: emotional level. Like my dad probably wouldn't have said that

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Speaker 5: there was any distance. And I wouldn't have said there

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Speaker 5: was distance. I just knew I was closer to my mom,

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Speaker 5: if that makes sense.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that was like my story too. I was

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Speaker 3: close to my mom and my five brothers were close

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Speaker 3: to my dad. It was like very similar. But how

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Speaker 3: did this kind of discovery that you were same-sex attracted, whatever,

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Speaker 3: how did that impact your faith or your idea about

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Speaker 3: Christianity or whatever? How did that impact that? We'll be

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Speaker 3: right back after this short break.

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Speaker 8: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So when I was in junior high, that was the

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Speaker 5: point when, you know, puberty happened and I realized that,

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Speaker 5: you know, all of my sexual feelings would be towards

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Speaker 5: guys and weren't at all towards women.

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Speaker 4: It felt like, yeah, 100% directed towards guys. And I

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Speaker 4: just assumed that would change.

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Speaker 5: Cause I, no one really was telling me that I

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Speaker 5: was gay. Like my experience, I didn't have any direct

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Speaker 5: trauma or direct bullying, but I did have these disconnects

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Speaker 5: that led to that sense of gender insecurity. And I

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Speaker 5: had a lot of, of envy I was struggling through

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Speaker 5: as well.

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Speaker 4: Um, and so I just told myself like.

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Speaker 5: This will probably change at some point, like I'll become

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Speaker 5: a full grown adult and be okay. But taking a

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Speaker 5: quick detour, cause this is like the faith moment of

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Speaker 5: like the answer to the beginning of the question I posed.

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Speaker 5: Of the sinner's prayer over and over again and never

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Speaker 5: feeling like I could believe God was real.

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Speaker 3: When I was.

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Speaker 5: About 17, I hit this point where I was kind

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Speaker 5: of hiding the whole sexuality thing and not talking about

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Speaker 5: it with myself or anyone else. Um, but I was

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Speaker 5: so tired of hiding the fact that I had all

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Speaker 5: these doubts about God's existence. Um, because I, I would

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Speaker 5: look into other worldviews and the Christian worldview would always

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Speaker 5: answer my questions to like 95% and any other worldview

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Speaker 5: would fall way short of 95%. It would be like 10, 15, Um,

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Speaker 5: but that 5% of questions I couldn't fully answer, like

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Speaker 5: a perfect answer to the problem of evil.

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Speaker 4: I couldn't totally have it. Um, I could find some

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Speaker 4: decent ones.

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Speaker 5: Uh, I finally ended up yelling at God in a

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Speaker 5: Spencer way, which wasn't really yelling, but I was definitely mad.

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Speaker 4: I was very mad on the inside.

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Speaker 5: I was like, God, if you are there and you are,

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Speaker 5: you exist the way you say you do in the Bible,

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Speaker 5: then you want me to believe you.

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Speaker 4: And you want me to be able.

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Speaker 5: To trust you and have saving faith. And I feel

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Speaker 5: like I can't have saving faith and trust in you

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Speaker 5: on my own.

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Speaker 3: So I'm going to.

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Speaker 4: Need you to make me believe. And when I prayed that, bro,

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Speaker 4: like I.

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Speaker 5: Was hit with a wave of just total peace and

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Speaker 5: like a warm blanket, a feeling of almost like a

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Speaker 5: warm blanket and a hug being wrapped around me. And

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Speaker 5: I was like, did that just happen?

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Speaker 3: Am I really?

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Speaker 5: Am I really going to believe that this was coincidence

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Speaker 5: when I just asked God for help? And now I've

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Speaker 5: never had this radical of a shift in my emotions

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Speaker 5: or feelings in my life ever from just pure anger

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Speaker 5: and fear to like perfect peace.

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Speaker 4: Um, so I, were.

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Speaker 3: You like in your bedroom or something? When, when, where

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Speaker 3: were you when this happened?

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Speaker 2: Yup.

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Speaker 4: My bedroom.

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Speaker 3: And so what was it like after that moment? Like,

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Speaker 3: did you, were you just all in for Jesus? Like

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Speaker 3: what happened?

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I told God that I would, um, believe that he

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Speaker 5: was working in my life and other people's lives when

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Speaker 5: I saw activity that could be him at work. And

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Speaker 5: then I would have questions. Second, I would start by

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Speaker 5: believing and then have questions second. And when I started

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Speaker 5: doing that, he started like using me to like lead

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Speaker 5: Bible studies and influence other kids in my church youth group.

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Speaker 5: And I would see him changing other people's lives through me.

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Speaker 5: And it started building my faith to where I was like, wow,

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Speaker 5: God is like, not just real, but working in me

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Speaker 5: so much more than I would have expected past my

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Speaker 5: confirmation bias or anything like that.

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Speaker 4: So it was incredible.

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Speaker 5: And that, that kind of led me into my first

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Speaker 5: year of college, which was when the sexuality question really

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Speaker 5: hit me hard.

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Speaker 3: Well, before we get to that, did you tell your

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Speaker 3: parents that you had this experience with the Lord? Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I did.

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Speaker 5: A time before, and I was so embarrassed crying.

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Speaker 4: I'm like, guys, I'm this 16-year-old kid crying.

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Speaker 5: Like, I don't know if I'm saved or if I

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Speaker 5: really know God. And they were like, just pray again.

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Speaker 5: And that was helpful. But after I had this experience, I.

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Speaker 7: Don't know.

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Speaker 5: I actually don't know if I told anyone. I've told

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Speaker 5: them since then. But, but yeah, it was, it was

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Speaker 5: definitely crazy.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So, okay. So get back to, so you went off

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Speaker 3: to college. What, and what happened then?

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So in college, um, I just never explored sexually at

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Speaker 5: all to that point into my life. Um, yeah, even

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Speaker 5: just personally in my head, like fantasy physically, any of

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Speaker 5: those ways. And so when I finally did, it hit

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Speaker 5: me like, Oh, I am what the world calls gay, apparently,

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Speaker 5: because I'm 18, 17, 18. Like if this was going

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Speaker 5: to change on its own, it would have happened by now.

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Speaker 5: So that hit me super surreal and weird feeling. But

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Speaker 5: then simultaneously I was like, I know I'm not leaving

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Speaker 5: Jesus because like he had just really awakened my faith

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Speaker 5: and started working in my life. So I was excited

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Speaker 5: to like tell the whole world that you don't have

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Speaker 5: to leave God. You don't have to leave Jesus. Um,

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Speaker 5: just because you have these feelings, you don't have to

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Speaker 5: act on them. Um, so I was like ready to speak,

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Speaker 5: ready to share, but, but I also did not know

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Speaker 5: what I was talking about at all. And I had

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Speaker 5: no idea how hard it would get afterwards.

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Speaker 3: Um, and so what, what happened? So tell us about

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Speaker 3: the difficulty. Like what, what did you go through in

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Speaker 3: terms of like dealing with this kind of new uh,

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Speaker 3: reality or sort of semi reality of like, I am

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Speaker 3: gay quote unquote, but I'm also a Christian. So how,

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Speaker 3: how did you navigate that?

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So I knew clearly what the Bible said about homosexuality that,

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Speaker 5: you know, it doesn't affirm same sex marriage or lust

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Speaker 5: or sexual behavior. So I knew I wasn't going to

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Speaker 5: do that, but through exploration and everything I stumbled into,

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Speaker 5: I don't know what we say on YouTube, like the corn, pornography.

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Speaker 6: I don't know wait do you edit those things yeah

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Speaker 6: okay yeah you can say that that's fine yeah um

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Speaker 6: and you know that really made things so much worse

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Speaker 6: because it just fed my fantasy and started sending me

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Speaker 6: down more and more of a rabbit hole of just

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Speaker 6: um i was never embracing um.

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Speaker 5: Sexuality towards men but like my behavior was through things

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Speaker 5: like porn and and all that and so uh.

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Speaker 4: It got really hard.

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Speaker 5: I did tell my sister, um, first about dealing with

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Speaker 5: these things in college and then my brother and they

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Speaker 5: both reacted really well. Um, same with my parents. And

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Speaker 5: I think a lot of that was because they, um, well,

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Speaker 5: I didn't say, Hey guys, I'm gay. You got to

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Speaker 5: accept this. It was more like, this is something I'm

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Speaker 5: like wrestling through. And I'm just gotta be honest because, um,

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Speaker 5: it's like intimidating and, um, a very difficult part of

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Speaker 5: my life. So I need to tell you finally about it.

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Speaker 4: Um, yeah. So I told them, uh.

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Speaker 3: And then you, and then you kind of started to,

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Speaker 3: you stumbled upon some books of, of side B theology

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Speaker 3: and tell us about that and like how that affected you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Okay, so at first giving credit, at first it helped

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Speaker 5: me and then it ended up capping out the help

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Speaker 5: that the books could give. So originally the Side B

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Speaker 5: books helped me realize I wasn't alone with my sexuality

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Speaker 5: and this struggle.

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Speaker 4: For anyone that doesn't know, Side.

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Speaker 5: B is basically the perspective that we reject gay marriage

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Speaker 5: and gay sex and lust and all of that. but

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Speaker 5: that it's also an area of your life that God

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Speaker 5: doesn't really change at least before heaven. So you can

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Speaker 5: essentially embrace a gay identity. Not that it's your primary identity,

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Speaker 5: like your first identity is still in Christ, but beneath that,

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Speaker 5: you can have a gay identity and say, Hey, I'm

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Speaker 5: a gay Christian and I'll probably always be this way. And,

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Speaker 5: you know, we don't really know anything about how this, how,

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Speaker 5: you know, what being gay is and how it may

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Speaker 5: or may not change. Plus, if you try to pursue change,

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Speaker 5: it's more likely to hurt you and cause disappointment than

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Speaker 5: to lead to freedom. So you should just not really

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Speaker 5: pursue change at all and only pursue Jesus, which I

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Speaker 5: just think it's kind of a false dichotomy that I'll

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Speaker 5: get to in terms of, you know, Jesus not really

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Speaker 5: touching that area of our sexuality. I think part of

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Speaker 5: pursuing Jesus involves believing in his.

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Speaker 4: Work in every area of our life.

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Speaker 8: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And if I can add to that, so with, as

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Speaker 3: you were saying, with Side B theology, you know, you

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Speaker 3: call yourself, I mean, people in that camp call themselves

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Speaker 3: gay Christians, even queer Christians. I know many people who

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Speaker 3: call themselves queer Christians, which to me is mind blowing. Like,

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Speaker 3: I'm just like, what are you talking about? You're like

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Speaker 3: a new creation person. And there's several things I want

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Speaker 3: to mention. So number one, as you sort of alluded to,

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Speaker 3: what you're doing in essence by calling yourself a gay

350
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Speaker 3: Christian is, and identifying as that, or a queer Christian,

351
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Speaker 3: is you're cutting off the Holy Spirit from sanctifying that

352
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Speaker 3: part of you because you're holding on to that old

353
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Speaker 3: identity that is sinful. And It's also like pairing the

354
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Speaker 3: sacred and profane together, like gay Christian. The two words

355
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Speaker 3: don't belong together. Also, that camp believes in the idea

356
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Speaker 3: of the concept of sexual minority. Some people in that

357
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Speaker 3: camp call themselves sexual minorities, which is not a biblical

358
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Speaker 3: concept at all. There's only sexual sin in the Bible.

359
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Speaker 3: There's no such thing as sexual minority at It also

360
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Speaker 3: has a victim mentality. The whole Side B theology has

361
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Speaker 3: a victim. It's like, I'm a victim, but we're not victims.

362
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Speaker 3: We're victors in Christ. So to kind of play this

363
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Speaker 3: victim is, again, it goes against biblical theology. It goes

364
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Speaker 3: against the Holy Spirit sanctifying you. There's also spiritual friendships

365
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Speaker 3: in that group, which encourages same-sex attracted Christians to make

366
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Speaker 3: lifelong friendship vows with a same-sex friend, even involving commitment ceremonies,

367
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Speaker 3: which are basically gay weddings. And as Rosaria Butterfield says,

368
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Speaker 3: I love it. And if you guys haven't if you

369
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Speaker 3: want to see like a full explanation of this whole thing,

370
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Speaker 3: I've done interviews with Rosario Butterfield and Christopher Yuan on this.

371
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Speaker 3: But she says, we must never celebrate or sanctify our flesh,

372
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Speaker 3: nor should we ever use ontological terminology to define who

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Speaker 3: we are that is rooted in our flesh. Our desire

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Speaker 3: to be missional in this world should never reshape our theology.

375
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Speaker 3: So anyway, so I can understand how you kind of like,

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Speaker 3: you were drawn to that side B theology because it

377
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Speaker 3: kind of helped you relate to it. You were able

378
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Speaker 3: to relate, but then how did you get out of that? Like,

379
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Speaker 3: when did you realize there was kind of some danger

380
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Speaker 3: to that?

381
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Speaker 4: I had to get punched in the face by a

382
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Speaker 4: very patient, very patient guy.

383
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Speaker 6: Oh, Jim.

384
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Speaker 4: Yeah.

385
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Speaker 7: His name is Jim.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

387
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Speaker 4: Yeah.

388
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Speaker 8: Yeah.

389
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Speaker 3: So what did he do?

390
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Speaker 4: So my pastor brought him in.

391
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Speaker 5: This was my senior year of college to give a

392
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Speaker 5: workshop to help Christians be more loving to people in

393
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Speaker 5: the LGBT community and, you know, foster missional relationships. Um,

394
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Speaker 5: and he, I wasn't able to go to the conference,

395
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Speaker 5: but we made sure to connect. We met up at

396
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Speaker 5: a Starbucks talked and I was explained to him how, Hey,

397
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Speaker 5: I'm a gay Christian. I'm a sexual minority. I love

398
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Speaker 5: to be in a sexual minority because It, uh, it

399
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Speaker 5: helped me feel special. You know, I'm like, you know,

400
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Speaker 5: this white kid from Boise at like a public university.

401
00:21:44,550 --> 00:21:48,270
Speaker 5: I'm like, there's nothing special about me. Well, like now

402
00:21:48,410 --> 00:21:50,770
Speaker 5: I have a, I have like an in, you know,

403
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Speaker 5: it's a.

404
00:21:51,250 --> 00:21:54,290
Speaker 3: You have like a superpower. You have some sort of superpower.

405
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Speaker 3: Cause you're like a sexual minority.

406
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Speaker 2: Yeah.

407
00:21:57,130 --> 00:21:57,410
Speaker 7: Yeah.

408
00:21:57,609 --> 00:21:57,810
Speaker 2: Yeah.

409
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Speaker 4: So that was, that was me. I definitely got something

410
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Speaker 4: out of that.

411
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Speaker 5: And, uh, Jim looked at me very patiently and well,

412
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Speaker 5: I also told him I'm going to help the church.

413
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Speaker 5: I'm going to speak on this. I'm going to help

414
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Speaker 5: the church take care of singles better, which, amen, that's

415
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Speaker 5: a good thing. And I appreciate when Side B talks

416
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Speaker 5: about the church taking care of singles. I just don't

417
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Speaker 5: think that's being. Yeah, I think that's a good aspect.

418
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Speaker 5: But I told him I'm.

419
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Speaker 4: Going to I'm going to do this as a gay Christian.

420
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Speaker 5: And Jim just said, you know, Spencer, do you think

421
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Speaker 5: that might be writing the story a little too soon?

422
00:22:30,369 --> 00:22:35,180
Speaker 5: A book written a little too soon. And I was like, no, Jim, no,

423
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Speaker 5: it's not. You're old and don't know what you're talking about.

424
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Speaker 3: And so what else did he say to you?

425
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

426
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Speaker 5: So he just kept pressing the subject gently and we

427
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Speaker 5: stayed till Starbucks closed and went to his hotel lobby.

428
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Speaker 5: So it was like a five hour conversation. But by

429
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Speaker 5: the end of it and throughout, I knew, I knew

430
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Speaker 5: that something wasn't right about the way I was identifying.

431
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Speaker 5: Like it never fully sat right with me. to identify

432
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Speaker 5: that way. So finally, I think I admitted to him.

433
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Speaker 5: I was like, Hey Jim, I would appreciate meeting up,

434
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Speaker 5: you know, doing some online meetings and just hearing more

435
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,820
Speaker 5: from you and being open handed with God about this

436
00:23:17,940 --> 00:23:21,620
Speaker 5: aspect of my identity and life and sexuality to say like, Lord,

437
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:26,670
Speaker 5: would I actually want to not, um, always be so

438
00:23:26,730 --> 00:23:32,189
Speaker 5: passionately erotically drawn towards other guys, other brothers, like, um,

439
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 5: do I actually want to be free from this or

440
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Speaker 5: am I getting something out of the fact that I

441
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,869
Speaker 5: have these desires still? Cause it's a little scary to

442
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Speaker 5: be like, I never, I never experienced opposite sex attraction before.

443
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Speaker 5: So I felt like if I let go of this,

444
00:23:47,570 --> 00:23:51,050
Speaker 5: then there would be nothing. I would have no sexuality

445
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Speaker 5: while still having, you know, a drive and everything. And

446
00:23:55,890 --> 00:23:59,660
Speaker 5: that just was super intimidating to, to let go like that.

447
00:23:59,700 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 4: You know what I mean?

448
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:06,100
Speaker 3: Yeah. And so at what point did you realize that

449
00:24:06,140 --> 00:24:09,939
Speaker 3: you needed to let go of side B theology?

450
00:24:11,300 --> 00:24:11,460
Speaker 8: Yeah.

451
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 5: At that point I realized I needed to let go,

452
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,290
Speaker 5: but it was a process of years of just, um,

453
00:24:17,510 --> 00:24:19,270
Speaker 5: meeting with Jim, meeting with a group of guys that

454
00:24:19,290 --> 00:24:22,590
Speaker 5: were also working through this, um, you know, led by Jim,

455
00:24:23,510 --> 00:24:26,930
Speaker 5: where I started to understand more and more the roots

456
00:24:26,970 --> 00:24:30,950
Speaker 5: of same sex attraction, that these feelings, I like, uh,

457
00:24:31,090 --> 00:24:35,510
Speaker 5: the way, um, yeah, Nicolosi senior and junior, I think

458
00:24:35,530 --> 00:24:38,490
Speaker 5: probably put it about it being a state versus a trait. Like,

459
00:24:39,210 --> 00:24:42,030
Speaker 5: like my same sex attraction is like a mode of

460
00:24:42,210 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 5: operating where when I'm in a state of feeling insecure

461
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:50,160
Speaker 5: about myself compared to another man whose masculinity I feel

462
00:24:50,220 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 5: inadequate compared to, and I'm envying them, I'm feeling insecure

463
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 5: and a need for, for good attention, affection, affirmation, and

464
00:24:58,619 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 5: connection with that guy.

465
00:24:59,740 --> 00:25:01,010
Speaker 4: That's a good need.

466
00:25:01,910 --> 00:25:05,850
Speaker 5: Um, So there's the root needs behind same-sex attraction, but

467
00:25:05,869 --> 00:25:09,659
Speaker 5: there's also the root sins, which envy, I would say,

468
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 5: would be the most often largest one, both biblically and

469
00:25:12,859 --> 00:25:13,859
Speaker 5: psychologically speaking.

470
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 4: It's like that envy is insane.

471
00:25:19,380 --> 00:25:22,899
Speaker 5: So the more that I understood what was happening, I

472
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,740
Speaker 5: think the insight was the first step to growing out.

473
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 3: Of it more and more.

474
00:25:28,700 --> 00:25:32,379
Speaker 5: Because when I felt the attraction, I used to think, oh,

475
00:25:32,460 --> 00:25:36,870
Speaker 5: I'm feeling this intense pull towards another man. Am I gay?

476
00:25:37,670 --> 00:25:39,889
Speaker 5: Is this just something I have to white knuckle and

477
00:25:40,170 --> 00:25:45,210
Speaker 5: hang on until heaven? Will this always be so conflicting

478
00:25:45,230 --> 00:25:48,660
Speaker 5: in my soul when I'm trying to have normal, natural, authentic,

479
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 5: brotherly relationships with guys that I admire in some way,

480
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,379
Speaker 5: physically or in their personality? Will that always be so complicated?

481
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,070
Speaker 5: And that's how I used to feel when I would

482
00:26:02,090 --> 00:26:06,450
Speaker 5: feel the attraction. But the insight, particularly about envy, really

483
00:26:06,490 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 5: helped where I was able to understand.

484
00:26:08,220 --> 00:26:11,460
Speaker 4: Hey, let.

485
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,899
Speaker 5: Me pause for a second and see, is there anything

486
00:26:13,980 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 5: about them right now that I am jealous of in

487
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,460
Speaker 5: some way? And I need to just go before God

488
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,980
Speaker 5: and say, Lord, you know what? I'm thankful for.

489
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 4: How you made me.

490
00:26:24,380 --> 00:26:26,500
Speaker 5: You not only have made them a gift to the

491
00:26:26,540 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 5: world with these good traits that they have that I'm

492
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,490
Speaker 5: jealous of, but you've made me a gift. through different

493
00:26:32,530 --> 00:26:34,630
Speaker 5: traits that I have. And as you built into me

494
00:26:35,150 --> 00:26:38,550
Speaker 5: and most importantly, through your Holy spirit, working through those

495
00:26:38,590 --> 00:26:41,470
Speaker 5: traits that I have. Um, so I don't need to

496
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 5: envy this from a guy. And once I get there

497
00:26:44,220 --> 00:26:48,219
Speaker 5: in the feeling of attraction, um, to that place of contentment,

498
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,980
Speaker 5: it's like the attraction just, just, you know, lowers down

499
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,010
Speaker 5: to the point where like I ended up forgetting about it.

500
00:26:56,060 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 4: Yeah.

501
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:01,120
Speaker 3: Praise God. It's like that eroticized envy. And, um, That's

502
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 3: the same thing.

503
00:27:03,220 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 4: When a.

504
00:27:08,700 --> 00:27:16,550
Speaker 3: Person is experiencing that kind of eroticized envy, it's like

505
00:27:17,010 --> 00:27:19,730
Speaker 3: what they're really desiring, I've talked about this before on

506
00:27:19,770 --> 00:27:23,730
Speaker 3: the show, what they're really desiring is intimacy. And as

507
00:27:23,770 --> 00:27:27,910
Speaker 3: you said, affirmation. And who better to go to than

508
00:27:27,930 --> 00:27:31,860
Speaker 3: our heavenly father for that intimacy and affirmation, you know?

509
00:27:31,910 --> 00:27:34,239
Speaker 3: So it's like, if you kind of direct, if you

510
00:27:34,300 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 3: redirect everything towards, towards God and towards, you know, Jesus

511
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 3: and the Holy spirit, that, as you said, that kind

512
00:27:43,700 --> 00:27:47,070
Speaker 3: of like that feeling, that urge like dissipates, it's a,

513
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 3: it's a really interesting phenomenon. Was there ever, um, just

514
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:54,740
Speaker 3: kind of backtracking a little bit. Was there ever a

515
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 3: time where, um, you were like, I'm just going to

516
00:27:59,500 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 3: scrap this whole Christianity thing. And I'm going to just

517
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 3: like be gay. I'm just going to pursue this life.

518
00:28:03,780 --> 00:28:04,340
Speaker 4: And I don't care.

519
00:28:04,660 --> 00:28:06,350
Speaker 3: I don't care about God anymore. Like I'm just going

520
00:28:06,369 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 3: to pursue this.

521
00:28:08,750 --> 00:28:09,950
Speaker 4: I thought about it a lot.

522
00:28:10,450 --> 00:28:13,550
Speaker 5: Like those college years before I met Jim, I had

523
00:28:14,030 --> 00:28:17,609
Speaker 5: so many, so many nights where I would stay up.

524
00:28:17,650 --> 00:28:19,890
Speaker 5: It was always like midnight or two in the morning

525
00:28:19,930 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 5: or something. And I would think, Oh, did I just

526
00:28:22,859 --> 00:28:25,580
Speaker 5: download an app right now? Or should I move to

527
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 5: San Francisco and go crazy?

528
00:28:27,660 --> 00:28:30,030
Speaker 4: Or, Oh my gosh.

529
00:28:30,090 --> 00:28:31,370
Speaker 3: Praise God you did not do that.

530
00:28:32,510 --> 00:28:32,850
Speaker 2: Yeah.

531
00:28:33,470 --> 00:28:34,430
Speaker 4: Yeah. No, for real.

532
00:28:34,450 --> 00:28:36,490
Speaker 5: Like I was just there for the first time last

533
00:28:36,550 --> 00:28:39,570
Speaker 5: week filming a music video and it was surreal to

534
00:28:40,630 --> 00:28:42,950
Speaker 5: be there and realize, wow, the last 10 years could

535
00:28:42,970 --> 00:28:47,230
Speaker 5: have gone so different if Jesus didn't prove himself to

536
00:28:47,270 --> 00:28:49,030
Speaker 5: me and show me that there's a way out of this.

537
00:28:49,990 --> 00:28:50,410
Speaker 7: Yeah.

538
00:28:50,630 --> 00:28:55,410
Speaker 3: If Jesus didn't intervene in your life. Um, and so, um,

539
00:28:56,180 --> 00:28:59,380
Speaker 3: Where are you now in terms of all of this?

540
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 3: Do you want to eventually get married to a woman?

541
00:29:04,660 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 3: What are you thinking in terms of your future?

542
00:29:07,780 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, that part is wild as well.

543
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 5: Okay, two years ago, so this was quite a ways

544
00:29:15,940 --> 00:29:18,550
Speaker 5: through the process with Jim, letting go of a gay identity,

545
00:29:19,450 --> 00:29:24,110
Speaker 5: understanding the roots, and growing through addressing those root needs

546
00:29:24,230 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 5: and root sins as well, through healthy relationships, like I

547
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,290
Speaker 5: found more brotherhood. God not only helped me connect with

548
00:29:32,350 --> 00:29:37,010
Speaker 5: him to receive my affirmation, affection, and attention, but would

549
00:29:37,030 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 5: also put brothers in my life that I could connect

550
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,620
Speaker 5: with that way as well and really learn to do

551
00:29:42,660 --> 00:29:46,420
Speaker 5: that in an embodied way with other men. So that

552
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,060
Speaker 5: was resolving more and more in my life, where the

553
00:29:49,340 --> 00:29:53,220
Speaker 5: attractions were getting less intense on average and happening less

554
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 5: often on average as well.

555
00:29:56,820 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 4: And in about 2024, I remember.

556
00:29:59,580 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 5: This was interesting. So I was reading a book. It

557
00:30:01,620 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 5: was actually case stories of reparative therapy. I was reading

558
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:11,500
Speaker 5: it on vacation in Hawaii with my bandmates here from

559
00:30:11,740 --> 00:30:16,070
Speaker 5: Upside Down Kingdoms, a group I'm part of. They were

560
00:30:16,310 --> 00:30:18,930
Speaker 5: both there with their wives. So it was very romantic.

561
00:30:19,290 --> 00:30:22,110
Speaker 5: Except for me, I was fifth wheeling with everyone out there.

562
00:30:23,470 --> 00:30:24,870
Speaker 5: Reading through this book, I knew I'd have a lot

563
00:30:24,910 --> 00:30:28,510
Speaker 5: of alone time and be very tempted to feel lonely

564
00:30:28,590 --> 00:30:32,420
Speaker 5: or discontent Um, so I was reading through the case

565
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,010
Speaker 5: stories book and I wasn't just reading it when, when

566
00:30:36,050 --> 00:30:39,130
Speaker 5: a concept would arrive in the book and trigger a

567
00:30:39,170 --> 00:30:40,390
Speaker 5: thought like, Oh, I relate to that.

568
00:30:40,450 --> 00:30:41,530
Speaker 4: That makes a lot of sense.

569
00:30:42,170 --> 00:30:43,970
Speaker 5: I would stop and I would talk to God about

570
00:30:44,010 --> 00:30:48,260
Speaker 5: it and I would pray through whatever, um, you know,

571
00:30:48,860 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 5: conflict in my soul would arise as I read kind

572
00:30:51,140 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 5: of these stories of guys working through SSA.

573
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:56,700
Speaker 4: Um, so fast forward to.

574
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,180
Speaker 3: The end of the day, is this a, is this

575
00:30:58,300 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 3: a Nick Pelosi book?

576
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:01,300
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

577
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:02,540
Speaker 4: Joseph Nicholas. Yeah.

578
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 3: Junior or senior?

579
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 4: Senior.

580
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:05,980
Speaker 2: Yeah.

581
00:31:06,060 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 8: It's old.

582
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,580
Speaker 4: It's from the early 90s. This one's from the early 90s. Okay.

583
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 3: So go ahead.

584
00:31:10,820 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 4: It's fascinating.

585
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:15,350
Speaker 5: So I was reading this book and I'm praying. I'm

586
00:31:15,370 --> 00:31:19,670
Speaker 5: talking to God about it. And then we arrive at this.

587
00:31:20,270 --> 00:31:21,969
Speaker 5: I head out with the guys and their wives to

588
00:31:22,010 --> 00:31:26,910
Speaker 5: this very romantic resort area. And we're all hanging out, fellowshipping.

589
00:31:27,590 --> 00:31:30,350
Speaker 5: And they both looked at me and said, hey, Spencer,

590
00:31:30,410 --> 00:31:33,130
Speaker 5: we really believe that you're going to be here with

591
00:31:33,170 --> 00:31:35,650
Speaker 5: a wife one day. We just think that's true. And

592
00:31:35,690 --> 00:31:40,460
Speaker 5: I say, ah, you know what? Maybe I wouldn't be surprised.

593
00:31:40,500 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 5: I think I might agree with you guys. I was

594
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 5: like open to the possibility.

595
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:44,140
Speaker 4: You know what I mean?

596
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,220
Speaker 5: And then I went back to my hotel room. And

597
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:50,940
Speaker 5: I remember it was the first time in my life

598
00:31:51,620 --> 00:31:55,300
Speaker 5: where I truly thought about from a pure place what

599
00:31:55,340 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 5: it would be like to have intimacy with the wife

600
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 5: in a self-giving way where I was like, not focused

601
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,660
Speaker 5: on my own performance, not focused on me, um, but

602
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 5: only focused on her. And when I, when I went there,

603
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 5: like for the first time in my life, I started like,

604
00:32:13,180 --> 00:32:17,330
Speaker 5: I was having very serious heterosexual attraction that was occurring.

605
00:32:18,210 --> 00:32:21,930
Speaker 4: I'm like, it was that even real? Did that even

606
00:32:21,970 --> 00:32:22,510
Speaker 4: just happen?

607
00:32:22,550 --> 00:32:28,460
Speaker 5: So I, uh, I went, uh, Like, yeah, I went

608
00:32:28,500 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 5: back to, to my room and was like thinking, I

609
00:32:32,020 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 5: thought about it again. Cause I wondered if it was

610
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,980
Speaker 5: a fluke. And then I realized like, I need to

611
00:32:36,030 --> 00:32:37,410
Speaker 5: stop thinking about this.

612
00:32:39,390 --> 00:32:39,850
Speaker 4: That's funny.

613
00:32:40,110 --> 00:32:42,150
Speaker 5: Cause it's going to turn, it's going to turn into

614
00:32:42,190 --> 00:32:44,390
Speaker 5: lust here. Like it wasn't, it wasn't lost at that

615
00:32:44,430 --> 00:32:46,950
Speaker 5: point because like lust is like a taking thing versus

616
00:32:46,990 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 5: a giving thing. I was thinking about, um, in a

617
00:32:49,580 --> 00:32:51,719
Speaker 5: way that I never had, like, like a 13 year

618
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,490
Speaker 5: old boy would during puberty, um, hopefully if they're coming

619
00:32:54,510 --> 00:32:56,870
Speaker 5: from a pure place and they haven't had like experiences

620
00:32:56,930 --> 00:33:00,190
Speaker 5: that tainted their view of sexuality, but like if a

621
00:33:00,230 --> 00:33:06,940
Speaker 5: boy was genuinely innocently saying or thinking to himself, wow, like, um,

622
00:33:07,540 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 5: women are, are, are amazing. And I, I want to discover, um,

623
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 5: this mysterious other. And I want to be, I want

624
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,060
Speaker 5: to give to her, like, I want to find a

625
00:33:17,100 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 5: wife like my parents and I want to, um, serve

626
00:33:20,540 --> 00:33:21,459
Speaker 5: her well in marriage.

627
00:33:22,420 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 4: Um, yeah.

628
00:33:23,180 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 5: So when I thought about that, it was insane how

629
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,739
Speaker 5: natural my body responded, just blew my mind. So then

630
00:33:30,780 --> 00:33:32,820
Speaker 5: I realized maybe I could try dating.

631
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,220
Speaker 4: Oh yeah.

632
00:33:37,550 --> 00:33:37,810
Speaker 7: I did.

633
00:33:37,830 --> 00:33:37,930
Speaker 2: Yeah.

634
00:33:37,950 --> 00:33:41,270
Speaker 4: I had a relationship that year and it was crazy.

635
00:33:41,330 --> 00:33:46,570
Speaker 5: Like I was able to, um, like really feel like

636
00:33:46,690 --> 00:33:52,690
Speaker 5: authentic and at times intense opposite sex attraction. Um, while

637
00:33:52,730 --> 00:33:55,690
Speaker 5: still working through aspects of same-sex attraction at the same time,

638
00:33:55,890 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 5: that doesn't disqualify. This is all a process. I really

639
00:34:01,660 --> 00:34:05,980
Speaker 5: believe that the heart of all of this, of same-sex attraction,

640
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,060
Speaker 5: opposite-sex attraction, sexuality in general, it's all about how we

641
00:34:10,100 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 5: relate to other people and sexual attraction flows from relationship,

642
00:34:15,580 --> 00:34:18,060
Speaker 5: how we see ourselves and how we see them and

643
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:18,660
Speaker 5: where we fit.

644
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:25,580
Speaker 4: It makes sense that the more I was feeling like

645
00:34:25,620 --> 00:34:26,760
Speaker 4: a brother to other.

646
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,580
Speaker 5: Men and not like they're so different from me and

647
00:34:29,700 --> 00:34:33,980
Speaker 5: I need them in a sexual way. It was opening

648
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,210
Speaker 5: up the space in my mind and my heart to

649
00:34:37,310 --> 00:34:42,430
Speaker 5: appreciate femininity finally in a way where I felt it

650
00:34:42,850 --> 00:34:47,609
Speaker 5: contrasting with my own masculinity. And really actually feeling that

651
00:34:47,650 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 5: contrast in relationship started to do things in me that

652
00:34:51,300 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 5: I didn't think was... really possible. I'd heard that it

653
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 5: was possible. Like Jim had told me, but you know,

654
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,380
Speaker 5: I was like, is that really true?

655
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 4: Yeah.

656
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 3: Wow. So you, you, so, and then that, that relationship ended.

657
00:35:07,580 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 3: Is that what happened?

658
00:35:08,900 --> 00:35:09,180
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

659
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 3: That one.

660
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:09,980
Speaker 4: Yeah.

661
00:35:11,580 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 3: You're like, okay, let's not talk about that.

662
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,780
Speaker 5: No, it's part of the, it's part of the process,

663
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,180
Speaker 5: you know, like I think for anyone out there that

664
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,410
Speaker 5: is in a similar situation, like it's about getting out

665
00:35:21,450 --> 00:35:25,220
Speaker 5: there and genuinely, uh, doing everything in your ability to,

666
00:35:25,540 --> 00:35:29,779
Speaker 5: to love a woman. Well, that's if, um, if you're

667
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,819
Speaker 5: at a point where God essentially clears you in good

668
00:35:33,860 --> 00:35:35,760
Speaker 5: conscience to date a woman, like you're not just.

669
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,470
Speaker 4: Saying, let me date her to fix my same sex attraction.

670
00:35:38,489 --> 00:35:39,700
Speaker 4: It's like, don't do that.

671
00:35:40,090 --> 00:35:42,049
Speaker 3: That's not what I was doing to like fix you.

672
00:35:42,110 --> 00:35:42,340
Speaker 2: Yeah.

673
00:35:42,390 --> 00:35:43,690
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

674
00:35:43,750 --> 00:35:43,950
Speaker 2: Yeah.

675
00:35:44,730 --> 00:35:48,370
Speaker 4: But it was genuinely very beautiful. Um, yeah.

676
00:35:49,270 --> 00:35:53,890
Speaker 3: And so do you, is there, uh, at the moment,

677
00:35:53,930 --> 00:35:56,390
Speaker 3: is there anyone else like on the horizon or like,

678
00:35:56,450 --> 00:35:59,370
Speaker 3: are you just kind of what, what's going on right now?

679
00:35:59,730 --> 00:36:00,250
Speaker 4: I'm open.

680
00:36:00,330 --> 00:36:00,790
Speaker 2: I'm open.

681
00:36:00,830 --> 00:36:05,390
Speaker 3: So if you know anyone, you heard it here, ladies,

682
00:36:05,410 --> 00:36:05,989
Speaker 3: you heard it here.

683
00:36:06,010 --> 00:36:09,070
Speaker 4: Okay.

684
00:36:09,140 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 3: So that's amazing.

685
00:36:11,580 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 8: I'm, I.

686
00:36:13,420 --> 00:36:17,820
Speaker 3: Mean, I, I'm so just, I love God's mercy on

687
00:36:17,860 --> 00:36:22,460
Speaker 3: your life. The fact that you didn't pursue your, like

688
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 3: actually be, you know, being a gay man and like

689
00:36:24,980 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 3: living that life. Like that is such a mercy from God. And, um,

690
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,070
Speaker 3: as I've said on the show many times, like if

691
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 3: I could go back in time, I would like not,

692
00:36:36,430 --> 00:36:38,489
Speaker 3: I would be like you, I wouldn't, I wouldn't have

693
00:36:38,590 --> 00:36:42,210
Speaker 3: pursued that life. Um, I talk about it in my

694
00:36:42,270 --> 00:36:44,350
Speaker 3: new book that's coming out. Like I talk about how,

695
00:36:46,170 --> 00:36:50,310
Speaker 3: you know, uh, I mean, there's so much I talk about,

696
00:36:50,350 --> 00:36:53,780
Speaker 3: about this, but like, I, if my parents had sat

697
00:36:53,820 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 3: me down and I mean, they didn't know, they didn't really,

698
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 3: my dad didn't know how to really talk about this issue.

699
00:37:01,260 --> 00:37:05,819
Speaker 3: And my mother probably didn't really either, but let's say

700
00:37:05,860 --> 00:37:09,460
Speaker 3: that they did. Um, it would have been really cool.

701
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:11,739
Speaker 3: I wish I had been more open with them as

702
00:37:11,780 --> 00:37:14,790
Speaker 3: a young, like in college or after right after college,

703
00:37:14,950 --> 00:37:16,870
Speaker 3: I wish I'd been more open with them about this

704
00:37:16,930 --> 00:37:21,270
Speaker 3: issue and communicated more like, Hey, I, I'm dealing with this.

705
00:37:21,390 --> 00:37:24,750
Speaker 3: And you know, I, uh, I'm not sure like if

706
00:37:24,790 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 3: I really want to do this and, you know, and I,

707
00:37:28,810 --> 00:37:31,870
Speaker 3: I really wish my parents had sat me down and said, Hey,

708
00:37:32,110 --> 00:37:36,650
Speaker 3: you know, this is this life that you're about to

709
00:37:36,710 --> 00:37:41,089
Speaker 3: embark on is a life of destruction and it's only

710
00:37:41,110 --> 00:37:44,170
Speaker 3: going to lead to pain and sorrow and destruction and, um,

711
00:37:45,930 --> 00:37:50,510
Speaker 3: and ultimate, ultimate destruction, like real destruction, um, for eternity.

712
00:37:50,610 --> 00:37:54,270
Speaker 3: And so, if they had just sat me down and,

713
00:37:55,010 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 3: and kind of worked through it with me, I don't know.

714
00:37:59,060 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 3: I just look back. I just think about like, what

715
00:38:01,219 --> 00:38:05,020
Speaker 3: if that had happened? And I just didn't pursue that

716
00:38:05,060 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 3: life because I have to say as much as like,

717
00:38:10,020 --> 00:38:12,149
Speaker 3: you know, I had quote unquote good times during that,

718
00:38:12,390 --> 00:38:15,530
Speaker 3: during that life. And I had these relationships. I also,

719
00:38:15,710 --> 00:38:20,060
Speaker 3: it was also very painful. It was also very, um,

720
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:25,609
Speaker 3: like I have emotional scars from all of it. And it's,

721
00:38:27,170 --> 00:38:29,810
Speaker 3: and it was never as, as much as I thought

722
00:38:30,190 --> 00:38:33,410
Speaker 3: these relationships were love, it was never love. It was

723
00:38:33,450 --> 00:38:39,460
Speaker 3: a counterfeit love because it wasn't aligned with God, with

724
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:43,340
Speaker 3: God's design. So it was never a righteous love. It

725
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,500
Speaker 3: was never real. It was like a false love. And

726
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 3: so anyway, I, I, I'm just, so thankful to God

727
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:55,760
Speaker 3: that he spared, he spared you of that life. Cause

728
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,730
Speaker 3: it really is. It's like, so, and I know a

729
00:38:59,750 --> 00:39:02,950
Speaker 3: lot of people who may be watching this, uh, there,

730
00:39:03,570 --> 00:39:05,690
Speaker 3: they might be saying, you know, people who are living

731
00:39:05,730 --> 00:39:08,170
Speaker 3: that life might be saying, Oh no, I'm so happy.

732
00:39:08,210 --> 00:39:10,870
Speaker 3: I'm happy. Like, I'm just like, give it time, just

733
00:39:10,890 --> 00:39:11,750
Speaker 3: give it time and you'll see.

734
00:39:11,770 --> 00:39:15,050
Speaker 4: Um, they don't seem happy in my comment sections.

735
00:39:16,910 --> 00:39:19,469
Speaker 3: Oh, you get a lot of hate comments.

736
00:39:19,510 --> 00:39:20,490
Speaker 4: The hate, hate comments.

737
00:39:20,550 --> 00:39:20,820
Speaker 2: Yeah.

738
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 8: Um, yeah.

739
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,970
Speaker 5: Um, but to your point though, about your, um, the

740
00:39:27,989 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 5: same with your, your family, like, yeah i do think

741
00:39:31,180 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 5: that's such a gift and i want to make sure

742
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 5: i honor my parents well i i don't remember what

743
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,830
Speaker 5: i said before but they're both just incredible parents both

744
00:39:37,870 --> 00:39:42,430
Speaker 5: marriage and family counselors my dad's a psychologist and um

745
00:39:42,910 --> 00:39:45,370
Speaker 5: if i had known to open up about this earlier

746
00:39:46,010 --> 00:39:48,820
Speaker 5: then they would have but we all just kept missing

747
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:50,670
Speaker 5: each other on this subject.

748
00:39:51,910 --> 00:39:52,410
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

749
00:39:53,180 --> 00:39:53,469
Speaker 8: Yeah.

750
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 3: Um, so anyway, this, this is a good note to parents.

751
00:39:57,460 --> 00:40:00,950
Speaker 3: Like I think it's, it's really, and, and again, I, I,

752
00:40:01,580 --> 00:40:04,839
Speaker 3: I describe it in detail how to, in my new book,

753
00:40:04,980 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 3: how to, uh, which is not coming out till next year, but, um,

754
00:40:08,940 --> 00:40:11,180
Speaker 3: how to kind of like navigate this with your kids

755
00:40:11,219 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 3: and how to sit down with them and take them

756
00:40:14,660 --> 00:40:18,420
Speaker 3: through all the pitfalls of that life. And, um, and,

757
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 3: and I, in my book, I, I illustrate what those

758
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 3: pitfalls are from my own life.

759
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 8: Anyway.

760
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:31,009
Speaker 3: So, and so let's move on to you are a

761
00:40:32,350 --> 00:40:33,690
Speaker 3: singer songwriter, right?

762
00:40:34,670 --> 00:40:34,890
Speaker 7: Yeah.

763
00:40:35,630 --> 00:40:37,810
Speaker 3: How did you get into that? And how long have you,

764
00:40:37,910 --> 00:40:38,750
Speaker 3: how long have you been doing that?

765
00:40:38,770 --> 00:40:43,589
Speaker 5: I've been doing it about six years now professionally. And

766
00:40:44,370 --> 00:40:47,170
Speaker 5: I got into it because when I was in college,

767
00:40:47,250 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 5: I was trying to be a, physician assistant, but I

768
00:40:50,300 --> 00:40:53,140
Speaker 5: was never that passionate about that. And so then I,

769
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:57,140
Speaker 5: I was passionate about ministry, like helping in my youth

770
00:40:57,180 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 5: group at church and like leading campus ministry at Boise state. Um,

771
00:41:02,260 --> 00:41:04,460
Speaker 5: so I did an internship at my church for a

772
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:06,540
Speaker 5: year after college got to.

773
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:07,060
Speaker 4: The end of that.

774
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,990
Speaker 5: And then none of us, the pastors or me had

775
00:41:10,030 --> 00:41:13,190
Speaker 5: a sense that, um, God was calling me to full-time

776
00:41:13,210 --> 00:41:17,330
Speaker 5: ministry at that point. So I, I told God like, Hey, um,

777
00:41:18,030 --> 00:41:21,730
Speaker 5: Music seems irresponsible because that's what everyone tells you, but

778
00:41:21,750 --> 00:41:23,310
Speaker 5: it's the one thing that I care about that I

779
00:41:23,350 --> 00:41:26,150
Speaker 5: haven't tried to do professionally. So I'm just going to

780
00:41:26,190 --> 00:41:28,210
Speaker 5: go for it and stop me if you want me

781
00:41:28,250 --> 00:41:32,190
Speaker 5: to change directions. And then he just kept opening the doors,

782
00:41:32,510 --> 00:41:35,140
Speaker 5: introducing me to Curtis, who was already a full-time artist

783
00:41:35,180 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 5: at that point, and helped me know that I had

784
00:41:37,900 --> 00:41:38,460
Speaker 5: what it took.

785
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:40,980
Speaker 4: If I just learned the skills I.

786
00:41:40,940 --> 00:41:44,739
Speaker 5: Needed to learn, you had to take that next step.

787
00:41:45,910 --> 00:41:47,340
Speaker 5: So yeah, I've been doing that for about the six

788
00:41:47,550 --> 00:41:49,710
Speaker 5: or the last six years recording.

789
00:41:50,610 --> 00:41:53,149
Speaker 3: And what genres of music, what genres do you do?

790
00:41:54,250 --> 00:41:54,550
Speaker 7: Yeah.

791
00:41:54,610 --> 00:41:59,049
Speaker 5: So I'm like alternative Christian R and B, but also

792
00:41:59,110 --> 00:42:03,190
Speaker 5: some rap, some folk kind of swing around a little bit.

793
00:42:03,730 --> 00:42:05,930
Speaker 3: And by the way, I mean, I've watched, I've, I've

794
00:42:05,950 --> 00:42:09,029
Speaker 3: watched some of your videos and your music videos and are,

795
00:42:09,330 --> 00:42:11,130
Speaker 3: and I've listened to a lot of your songs and

796
00:42:11,469 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 3: you're extremely talented. And so what, If you would, I

797
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,460
Speaker 3: would love for you to sing us a song to

798
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:20,980
Speaker 3: sing us out of the episode.

799
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:23,700
Speaker 4: I'm down. I'm down.

800
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:24,830
Speaker 3: All right, let's do it.

801
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:25,899
Speaker 4: Let me find my guitar here.

802
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 3: Okay.

803
00:42:29,460 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 5: Let's see if people can hear me okay here. This

804
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 5: song I wrote really about, I really wrote it about

805
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,390
Speaker 5: how it feels to feel like you're giving up everything

806
00:42:43,430 --> 00:42:44,190
Speaker 5: to follow Jesus.

807
00:42:44,230 --> 00:42:45,730
Speaker 4: Cause that's what Jesus calls us to do.

808
00:42:45,750 --> 00:42:49,250
Speaker 5: Um, but how, when we give everything up to him

809
00:42:49,330 --> 00:42:52,250
Speaker 5: and we're totally open-handed with where he's calling us, where

810
00:42:52,270 --> 00:42:56,030
Speaker 5: he's taking us, then like, he always makes it worth

811
00:42:56,180 --> 00:42:59,180
Speaker 5: it because he gave so much more up for us

812
00:42:59,219 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 5: than we ever could by literally dying for us.

813
00:43:02,940 --> 00:43:05,339
Speaker 4: Um, so yeah, this is just a song about that.

814
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:06,260
Speaker 3: Nice.

815
00:43:08,460 --> 00:43:12,670
Speaker 4: No, the course is like, um, See.

816
00:43:12,750 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 1: Oh, what a joy it is to give my whole

817
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:18,860
Speaker 1: life away for this.

818
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:24,180
Speaker 7: If I had nothing else, nothing left I'd miss.

819
00:43:25,260 --> 00:43:29,620
Speaker 1: No greater love than this. God, I'd love to die

820
00:43:29,660 --> 00:43:34,270
Speaker 1: giving life up for his friends. Oh, spirit, fill me up,

821
00:43:34,910 --> 00:43:40,129
Speaker 1: fill me up again. Take all that I'm holding.

822
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 7: Take me where you're going now Cause.

823
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:52,610
Speaker 8: I need it All this pain I felt Drawn from

824
00:43:52,750 --> 00:44:06,569
Speaker 8: myself I need a deeper well Oh.

825
00:44:02,570 --> 00:44:07,360
Speaker 1: Say oh what a joy it is Give my whole

826
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 1: life away.

827
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 7: I had nothing else. Nothing left I'd miss.

828
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 1: No greater love than this.

829
00:44:18,820 --> 00:44:21,980
Speaker 7: I'd have loved to die, giving life for his friends.

830
00:44:22,660 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 4: Spirit, fill me up.

831
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:35,870
Speaker 7: Fill me up again. Oh, fill me up again. Fill

832
00:44:35,910 --> 00:44:42,860
Speaker 7: me up. Amazing.

833
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 4: I love it.

834
00:44:44,980 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 1: Thank you.

835
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:48,780
Speaker 3: Now, where can people, where can people find your music?

836
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:50,260
Speaker 6: Yeah.

837
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:57,730
Speaker 4: Find me on Spotify, Instagram, um, anywhere, all streaming platforms, YouTube.

838
00:44:58,710 --> 00:44:59,810
Speaker 3: And it's just under your name.

839
00:44:59,830 --> 00:45:01,830
Speaker 7: Uh, yeah.

840
00:45:01,870 --> 00:45:04,029
Speaker 4: Spencer Bolio under my name.

841
00:45:04,050 --> 00:45:04,490
Speaker 1: Yeah.

842
00:45:04,510 --> 00:45:07,320
Speaker 3: Spell your last name. B O L I O U.

843
00:45:08,410 --> 00:45:10,190
Speaker 4: Yes. Yes. Bolio.

844
00:45:11,250 --> 00:45:11,770
Speaker 2: Bolio.

845
00:45:12,450 --> 00:45:12,890
Speaker 7: All right.

846
00:45:12,910 --> 00:45:17,470
Speaker 3: Well, that was great. And yeah, guys, check out his music.

847
00:45:17,630 --> 00:45:22,210
Speaker 3: It's amazing and very uplifting. And I like the hip

848
00:45:22,250 --> 00:45:25,670
Speaker 3: hop stuff, too. Thank you so much for coming on

849
00:45:25,690 --> 00:45:28,390
Speaker 3: the show, Spencer, and sharing your story. I appreciate it.

850
00:45:28,390 --> 00:45:31,509
Speaker 5: Hey, thank you so much for having me, man. Like,

851
00:45:31,860 --> 00:45:32,779
Speaker 5: huge blessing for me.

852
00:45:33,180 --> 00:45:36,670
Speaker 3: Wait, don't touch that dial. Please like and subscribe. And also,

853
00:45:36,750 --> 00:45:40,629
Speaker 3: please consider becoming a patron on Patreon. For as little

854
00:45:40,670 --> 00:45:42,610
Speaker 3: as $ 5 a month, you can really help us out

855
00:45:42,690 --> 00:45:46,350
Speaker 3: on the show. The link is below. And we so,

856
00:45:46,430 --> 00:45:47,609
Speaker 3: so appreciate it. Thank you.

857
00:45:50,540 --> 00:45:52,900
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to this episode of The Beckett

858
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:58,240
Speaker 2: Cook Show. Your support makes this content possible. All episodes

859
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,140
Speaker 2: of The Beckett Cook Show are also available on YouTube.

860
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:04,490
Speaker 2: For more information about Beckett and his ministry,