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Speaker 1: This will be confronting, This will be difficult to watch

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Speaker 1: and listen to, but this matters. Welcome to a special

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Speaker 1: weekend edition of The Aaron Mullin Show. If you're like me,

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Speaker 1: you've looked at the Epstein files over the past few weeks,

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Speaker 1: some of the emails and.

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Speaker 2: Felt physically ill.

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Speaker 1: The thought of anyone harming a child is it's incomprehensible

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Speaker 1: for most of us, For most of us who were decent.

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Speaker 1: I thought about back in the day when he was

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Speaker 1: at his peak, where this vile criminal, this creep was

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Speaker 1: at his peak. It wasn't as easy to contact children,

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Speaker 1: yet he was still able to do immense harm.

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Speaker 2: What about today?

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Speaker 1: We have social media, we have mobiles, we have Internet,

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Speaker 1: we have all these things that make our kids so

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Speaker 1: much easier to target. So if he Epstein back then

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Speaker 1: was able to do so much damage to so many

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Speaker 1: young people, what is going on now and sometimes right

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Speaker 1: in front of our eyes.

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Speaker 2: And we're completely unaware.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is Andrew Carpenter. They refer to him

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Speaker 1: as pedophiles most hated man, the one they hate the most.

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Speaker 1: Now he's a lawyer based in Australia, but he talks

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Speaker 1: about the danger to children from a global perspective, and

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Speaker 1: what he has to say is chilling, but it matters.

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Speaker 1: And we're not only going to point out the dangers

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Speaker 1: that exist for your kids, particularly when it comes to

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Speaker 1: the game roadblocks that might give you chills, because I

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Speaker 1: know so many of my friends have kids who play

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Speaker 1: this game.

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Speaker 2: But instead of just telling you about the danger, we're going.

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Speaker 1: To tell you what you can do to not entirely

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Speaker 1: eradicate it, but almost and still let your kids play.

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Speaker 1: This conversation matters. Thank you so much for joining me.

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Speaker 1: I know what will be uncomfortable at times, but parents,

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Speaker 1: it's your job to protect your kids. Andrew Carpenter, first

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Speaker 1: of all, thank you so so much, A for coming

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Speaker 1: on the show, and b for the incredible work that

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Speaker 1: you do in such an important space.

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Speaker 2: You are a warrior.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much having it. It's definitely an uncomfortable

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Speaker 3: conversation to talk about, but it's definitely.

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Speaker 4: One anyone with children that we need to have.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely. I was reading your bio and what strikes me

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Speaker 1: is you were named the man most hated by Australian

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Speaker 1: child sex offenders.

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Speaker 2: What a badge of honor I think.

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Speaker 3: Besides Dad that's my favorite title. So I mean, I've

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Speaker 3: been in law for fifteen years, I've been representing survivors

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Speaker 3: for that long, and I guess it's a nice little

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Speaker 3: tip of the hat.

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Speaker 4: The pedophiles hate me.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's the kind of people that no one

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Speaker 3: really has any time of day for And as long

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Speaker 3: as I'm the ones thinking the boots in, I guess

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Speaker 3: that makes me happy.

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Speaker 2: No, it's fantastic.

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Speaker 1: Whenever I get hate, I look at who they cheer for,

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Speaker 1: and I go, what a badge of honor? Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much? Tell me why did you play it so much?

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Speaker 1: Apart from the obvious your dad?

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Speaker 2: What is your why?

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Speaker 4: I was never abused as a child. I was raised

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Speaker 4: by a single mother.

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Speaker 3: I had my first job at a law firm, and

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Speaker 3: any time there was any abuse claim, people just wanted

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Speaker 3: to not touch it, and so, being a young lawyer,

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Speaker 3: I just started taking them. And then I started seeing

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Speaker 3: all the loopholes involved, where offenders are able to hide assets,

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Speaker 3: the conviction rates appalling because of the time period, and

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Speaker 3: I thought, you know, it's about time someone someone stood

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Speaker 3: up to these monsters. And people will often get quite

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Speaker 3: intimidated by individuals that abuse children, they think they're dangerous individuals,

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Speaker 3: but to me, they're not.

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Speaker 4: They're they're the lowest of the lower.

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Speaker 3: I think in conn Air, John Malkovich described child sex

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Speaker 3: offenders as the as the stuff that builds up at

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Speaker 3: the site to your mouth when you're thirsty. It just

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Speaker 3: means absolutely nothing. So yeah, so yeah, everyone thinks I

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Speaker 3: was abuse as a child, but I wasn't. I just

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Speaker 3: I see something that's wrong, And when I see our

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Speaker 3: government's failing and not wanting to stand up for it,

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Speaker 3: why wouldn't I do it.

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Speaker 1: It's insanity that there should be any pushback from any government,

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Speaker 1: or there should be any any task undertaken that makes

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Speaker 1: your job more difficult, which is prosecuting these scumbag pieces

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Speaker 1: of beep. Why do you think governments make this harder

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Speaker 1: than it shouldn't be. I mean, when I look at

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Speaker 1: things that might unify us, or this should be top

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Speaker 1: of that list is protecting children.

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Speaker 4: It's not a divisive topic.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think politicians don't want to get involved

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Speaker 3: because this isn't a vote getting topic because any time

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Speaker 3: that you mention anything about child abuse, people turn the channel.

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Speaker 3: And I often joke with my wife, I say that

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Speaker 3: she's kind of the problem because she doesn't want to

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Speaker 3: look at any interviews that I do because she does

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Speaker 3: I've got three children. I don't want to hear about this.

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Speaker 3: You've got three children. You need to know about this.

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Speaker 3: Like if I see on a TV show where a

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Speaker 3: dog's being harmed, I turn the channel right away.

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Speaker 4: I don't want to see it.

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Speaker 3: But when something like this is all my interviews, I

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Speaker 3: don't talk about the actual act itself.

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Speaker 4: I talk about.

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Speaker 3: Prevention and I talk about reform that needs to happen.

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Speaker 3: People don't realize in South Australia until one July last year,

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Speaker 3: a convicted child sex offender could work in a place

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Speaker 3: frequented by children and people have no idea that.

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Speaker 4: That's the thing. People think that.

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Speaker 3: This isn't isn't commonplace in Australia. One in three girls

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Speaker 3: and one in five boys will be sexy Busielory eighteenth birthday.

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Speaker 4: Yet people don't want to hear about this. Governments don't

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Speaker 4: want to talk about it.

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Speaker 3: And I mean with the prevalence of online gaming, online forums,

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Speaker 3: that's one of the real dangers for children is because

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Speaker 3: there's the technology is far surpassing the law and until

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Speaker 3: the law actually catches up with technology. The Internet's going

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Speaker 3: to be a dangerous place. And I mean one of

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Speaker 3: the hard things is last year there was a childcare

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Speaker 3: worker that was charged with about fifteen hundred counts a

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Speaker 3: child abuse, and people started saying that we need to

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Speaker 3: pull our children out of childcare. But the most dangerous

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Speaker 3: place for a child is actually the family home.

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Speaker 4: Eighty percent of all should abuse is committed by a

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Speaker 4: family member.

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Speaker 3: So I mean, I I'd rather see stronger laws in

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Speaker 3: relation to everything involving childre I throw the book at

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Speaker 3: it to make sure that something sticks.

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Speaker 2: I agree.

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Speaker 1: I would rather infringe on your rights as an adult

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Speaker 1: a tiny little bit if it means protecting children.

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Speaker 2: I don't give a flying cabodle.

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Speaker 3: My big thing is I'd much rather give victor survivors

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Speaker 3: the first chance before I give any convicted or even

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Speaker 3: a lee a second chance.

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Speaker 2: Noep, that's spot on. Now. What caught my eye this

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Speaker 2: week from you was a warning about roadblocks. So many

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Speaker 2: parents have kids who play.

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Speaker 1: Roadblocks and it looks cute, and little girls complain your

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Speaker 1: character has pigtails, and all the other characters are cute,

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Speaker 1: little and innocent, but they're not.

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Speaker 2: They're not what do we need to know?

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Speaker 3: I don't think any grown ass parent or grown ass

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Speaker 3: adult should be playing a game designed for children. So

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Speaker 3: with Roadblocks, it's the chat rooms are uncensored. So in

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Speaker 3: Australia alone in twenty twenty three, there was thirteen thousand,

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Speaker 3: three hundred instances of child abuse which emanated from Roadblocks.

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Speaker 4: I'm a diehard.

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Speaker 1: Doble Globally, this is an international show. We've got a

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Speaker 1: big audience in America, would it be? I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: the same kind of risk and threat everywhere, isn't it.

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Speaker 3: I'm a diehard Dallas Cowboys fan. And the sea that Texas,

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Speaker 3: the state of Texas is suing the creators of Roadblocks,

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Speaker 3: and one of the things that Texas is saying is

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Speaker 3: that they are putting predators over profits. They are putting

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Speaker 3: predators rights and sorry profits and predators over protection. And

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Speaker 3: so when states are realizing this is a problem, a

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Speaker 3: lot of the states in America have taken steps. There's

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Speaker 3: parents that have taken civil avenue, there's lobbying groups that

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Speaker 3: are trying to stand up for this. Because these chat

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Speaker 3: rooms are uncensored, they're not moderated, They're facilitating offenders to

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Speaker 3: go in and befriend children. And one of the things

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Speaker 3: that parents aren't realizing is roadblocks. The individuals or the

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Speaker 3: adults using this to try and compel or to try

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Speaker 3: to groom children. They're then trying to add them on Snapchat. Now,

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Speaker 3: parents don't realize. If you've got Snapchat, if you look

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Speaker 3: on the home screen down the bottom left hand corner,

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Speaker 3: there's a map icon. If an offender adds a child

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Speaker 3: on Snapchat, parents don't realize that that map function allows

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Speaker 3: an offender to locate your child within half a meter

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Speaker 3: or in America, I think that's about eighteen inches of

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Speaker 3: where they're currently sitting. It shows streets, it shows location

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Speaker 3: in the house, and it shows battery percentages. So people

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Speaker 3: on roadblocks they will add children on Snapchat and they'll say,

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Speaker 3: I know exactly where you live.

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Speaker 4: Send me an image otherwise, or come and harm your parents.

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Speaker 3: Now, if you cut off roadblocks, if you cut off

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Speaker 3: the chat function, you can actually eliminate most these offenses occurring.

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Speaker 2: But how do we do that?

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Speaker 1: I want to jump straight in, how do parents go

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Speaker 1: and do you know exactly how to turn off that

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Speaker 1: chat function?

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Speaker 3: I mean, the hard thing with this is most parents

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Speaker 3: aren't technologically sound. I mean, my mum's seventy one and

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Speaker 3: my five year old has to help her show a

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Speaker 3: picture on her phone. So children are very technologically savvy,

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Speaker 3: especially if they want to talk to people, so they

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Speaker 3: can actually turn off the chat functions. But until Roadblocks

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Speaker 3: start doing something where it's password protected, you cannot turn

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Speaker 3: off certain functions until an adult puts in a password.

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Speaker 3: But again, this is a thing that Roadblocks knows what's happening.

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Speaker 3: Governments around the world know what happening. The fact that

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Speaker 3: states are taking lengths to sue gaming companies, that shows

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Speaker 3: that they know what's happening. Until Roadblocks start actually thinking

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Speaker 3: on the feet and saying, hey, people might actually stop

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Speaker 3: playing us all together. Unless we can show that we

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Speaker 3: put certain avenues in place to protect children and make

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Speaker 3: sure offenders are at off this platform, the better, and

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Speaker 3: Roadblocks would know if there's an offender using a platform.

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Speaker 3: Why aren't they giving all the details to law to

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Speaker 3: authorities and saying, hey, we've got a report from this

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Speaker 3: account that's offending. Why aren't there people rocking up on

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Speaker 3: their doorsteps saying give us all your devices right now.

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Speaker 3: But I mean, this is a parenting thing. But it's

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Speaker 3: also everyone that's got a kid knows that. You know,

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Speaker 3: you say, don't do something, going to find a way

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Speaker 3: to do that. But if the platforms are making this

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Speaker 3: difficult for children, to change things, but nothing's going to change.

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Speaker 3: But also unless there's actually some form of deter it

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Speaker 3: from these gaming companies. In Australia, anyone that's under sixteen

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Speaker 3: has banned from social media, but Roadblocks actually didn't go

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Speaker 3: into that exemption. Even though Roadblocks is a pseudo social

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Speaker 3: media page, it's a gaming platform. Now people have opinions

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Speaker 3: on you know, what children should be able to do

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Speaker 3: under sixteen, but when it's a platform that is actually

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Speaker 3: used more than Instagram and Facebook for perpetrative child abuse,

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Speaker 3: certain things had to come in place. And I'd love

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Speaker 3: to see more states like Texas taking steps and actually

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Speaker 3: hitting these individuals where it hurts, and that's his by

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Speaker 3: suing them.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's it.

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Speaker 1: The only thing they listen to, The only language they

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Speaker 1: speak is the financial one. Unfortunately, even though when you

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Speaker 1: look at teams and the ownership and the boards and

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Speaker 1: those running it, most of them would be parents, which

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Speaker 1: which blows my mind. I get the incentive of money,

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Speaker 1: I get that people are driven by success, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: But surely that the welfare of kids should be should

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Speaker 1: come before anything, But for some people it doesn't. Can

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Speaker 1: you talk to me about you know, I was reading

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Speaker 1: a case yesterday about someone who had child abuse material

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Speaker 1: on their phone and a judge he won't spend a

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Speaker 1: day in prison. And a judge said, oh, you know,

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Speaker 1: it was innocent, like he was child like, it was

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Speaker 1: the less serious and anyone having that and sharing it

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Speaker 1: is contributing to a place somewhere, maybe far away or

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Speaker 1: closer to home, where kids are forced to do this stuff.

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Speaker 1: I just how do we create, you know, punishments that

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Speaker 1: will deter because right now it feels like people going

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Speaker 1: in front of the court to a court are basically

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Speaker 1: getting off free.

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Speaker 3: And it's the weirdest thing about child exploitation material is

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Speaker 3: you never hear people getting arrested with one or two images.

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Speaker 4: It's no thousands, it's hundreds of thousands.

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Speaker 3: I think a terrorbyte is a thousand gig. I'm not sure,

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Speaker 3: but we're hearing people that are arrested with five or

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Speaker 3: six terabytes and that would be you know, thousands of

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Speaker 3: arrows of child exploitation material. And the first thing that

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Speaker 3: happens is they played the mental health card. There was

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Speaker 3: a police officer in Makai, which is far north Queensland.

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Speaker 3: He got three months of possessing a possessing thousands of

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Speaker 3: images and this police officer, his excuse was, I didn't

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Speaker 3: know that seventeen hundred images depicting child exploitation material was illegal.

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Speaker 3: They use the excuse that it was because of the

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Speaker 3: trauma that he had in his role as a police

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Speaker 3: officer that he used that as a form of escapism.

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Speaker 3: You're seeing offenders like this, and it's I always say

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Speaker 3: that the offenders like this, they start off with images

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Speaker 3: and they get away.

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Speaker 4: With that and then they go to the actual physical act.

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Speaker 3: If you're not going to actually make an example of

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Speaker 3: individuals that are downloading this and in Australia, like I

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Speaker 3: always say that in Australia, bikings for instance, if two

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Speaker 3: bikes can't have a beer at a pub, but one

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Speaker 3: hundred pedophiles go to All Wiggles concert and you think

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Speaker 3: the second that you see any gang members being arrested,

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Speaker 3: the first thing the media does through out the front

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Speaker 3: of their house showing police officers tying away their bikes.

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Speaker 3: But individuals that have exploitation material, they might be someone

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Speaker 3: that works, say as a teacher, Yet this teacher drives

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Speaker 3: a BMW.

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Speaker 4: They go overseas a few times a year.

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Speaker 3: People don't realize that exploitation material is being used as

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Speaker 3: a currency. They're trading it for money, but their life's

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Speaker 3: not being turned upside down. They they get caught with

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Speaker 3: thousand images and they downgrade it to maybe twenty or

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Speaker 3: thirty to play out because it's hard for the police

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Speaker 3: to actually prove every single count, and then they're given

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Speaker 3: a week sentences. Our governments are sending a message to

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Speaker 3: offenders that hey, we're not having minimum mantary imprisonments imprisonment

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Speaker 3: for these crimes, and so what's the deterrent.

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Speaker 4: Like in Australia, the persented or the conviction.

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Speaker 3: Rate for troubles sexual abuse is point zero three percent.

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Speaker 4: So for every one.

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Speaker 3: Thousand reports, only one hundred get investigated by police, six

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Speaker 3: get convicted and three get overturned on appeal. So if

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Speaker 3: you're an defender and you're seeing these odds and if

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Speaker 3: the instance you are getting caught, you're not.

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Speaker 1: Prison If they're the odds, that that's insane, that's.

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Speaker 3: You know, if you had a ninety nine point ninety

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Speaker 3: seven percent chance of speeding every day to work, drink driving,

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Speaker 3: and using your phone, what's the deterrent?

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Speaker 4: Like, you're not going to get caught for this.

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Speaker 3: But until there's stronger laws on this, until our governments

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Speaker 3: say you have one image of exploitational tier on your phone.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's like I would love.

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Speaker 3: I would love a tiered approach where it's like you

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Speaker 3: have ten images, that's minimum six months, you have over

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Speaker 3: a thousand, that's minimum ten years. You watch how quickly

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Speaker 3: people stop offending when they realize that they're going.

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Speaker 4: To absolutely get cash straight by the judicial system.

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Speaker 1: It feels like it's getting easier to offend with technology.

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Speaker 1: There are more ways for them to access children, and

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Speaker 1: then that turns into an offense and harder, or there's

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Speaker 1: a lack of a willingness to then hold people to

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Speaker 1: account for that offending.

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Speaker 2: That is a nightmare combination.

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Speaker 3: I don't know any normal human being that we know

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Speaker 3: how to get on the dark web, and if you're

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Speaker 3: seeing people that are I had had one guy there

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Speaker 3: was years ago, This would have been maybe ten years ago.

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Speaker 3: He was eighty two and he had three hundred and

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Speaker 3: twenty thousand images of child exploitation material that he attains

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Speaker 3: in the dark web. Now, if anyone has a parent

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Speaker 3: that's above sie, you ask them to do something on

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Speaker 3: a smartphone, you asked him to change their ring tone.

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Speaker 4: They have no idea.

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Speaker 3: If you're at the age where you didn't you weren't

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Speaker 3: in school when computers were introduced, where you didn't have

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Speaker 3: computing as a subject, and you are going to the

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Speaker 3: lengths to obtain exploitation material through the duck web. It

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Speaker 3: shows that you're a person that's looking for it. It

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Speaker 3: doesn't show that it's come across upon it.

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Speaker 1: China has just announced something fairly severe and look, I'm

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Speaker 1: very very scathing and critical of cheating ping and the

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Speaker 1: aspirations that country has for.

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Speaker 2: A new world order. But I tell you what, I'm

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Speaker 2: not all that annoyed about.

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Speaker 3: This, the death penalty for exploitation material. And then Italy

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Speaker 3: they're trying to table chemical castration for anyone caught with

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Speaker 3: child exploitation material.

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Speaker 4: And no, Australia would never go down that staff.

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Speaker 3: But I started a law change in twenty twenty which

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Speaker 3: basically said that in Australia, if you work every year,

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Speaker 3: your employer has to put nine per cent of your

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Speaker 3: wage into an account which you can't touch until the

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Speaker 3: age of retirement. I started a law change years ago

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Speaker 3: simply saying that if you're a child abuser, you should

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Speaker 3: lose every single cent that you ever worked for. And

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Speaker 3: the funny thing is the labor government has said openly

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Speaker 3: on radio that they will never touch the panuation. Yet

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Speaker 3: twenty five billion dollars of last year's revenue in the

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Speaker 3: country was raised by the tax age of superannuation. So

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Speaker 3: on one hand, our labor government is saying we're going

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Speaker 3: to tax hard working Australians, but on the other hand

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Speaker 3: they're saying we're not going to touch pedophiles toupanuation. So

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Speaker 3: what's the current there, like.

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Speaker 2: If well, that's ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: I'm not speeding in my car every day because i

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Speaker 3: don't want the fine. I'm not using my phone. I

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Speaker 3: don't want the fine. If you've got a ninety nine

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Speaker 3: point ninety seven percent chance of getting away with this,

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Speaker 3: why wouldn't the government say, right, if you offend against

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Speaker 3: a child, you lose every single cent you've ever worked for.

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Speaker 3: And you watch how quickly people then stop thinking about acting.

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Speaker 2: It's a no brainer. It is a no brainer.

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Speaker 1: Andrew Carpenter, you though, have a very full, big brain

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Speaker 1: that you use very very well, and I thank you

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Speaker 1: for it.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate all the work you do.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for shedding light on this otherwise

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Speaker 1: disgusting issue. But again, darkness helps, doesn't it. You've got

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Speaker 1: to talk about it. We've got to push governments to

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Speaker 1: do more.

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Speaker 3: And thank you to you because not too many people

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Speaker 3: who use their platform to talk about this. But if

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Speaker 3: you're if you're a parent, if you've got any child

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Speaker 3: in your life, this is a topic that we need

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Speaker 3: to have conversations about. And thank you for having me

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Speaker 3: on to actually using your platform to highlight children's rights.

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Speaker 3: Because if everyone talks about precious resources, but I challenge

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Speaker 3: anyone to question that the most precious resource that we

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Speaker 3: have now is our future, is our children. So if

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Speaker 3: we can't protect them, then what are we doing wrong?

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Speaker 2: No? One hundred percent.

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Speaker 1: And this is you know, I say as a mother,

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Speaker 1: I mean as a human being, but the thought of

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Speaker 1: it is it makes me physically ill, the thought of

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Speaker 1: even I mean, I can't, but we've got to do it.

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Speaker 1: We got to talk about it, and roadblocks really struck me.

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Speaker 1: A lot of my girlfriends talk about it. Oh, the

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Speaker 1: kids are on roadblocks and da. So when I saw this,

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Speaker 1: I went, we need to talk about this. So I

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Speaker 1: thank you so much.

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Speaker 2: You're amazing.

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Speaker 4: I appreciate it my kids.

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Speaker 3: If my kids want to play video games, I'll go

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Speaker 3: to a cash converters by an old Nintendo sixty four

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Speaker 3: and Bela's not anything.

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Speaker 2: Yep, brilliant. Thank you so much, really appreciate it.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, Love you all.

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Speaker 2: Stay tuned to this channel.

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Speaker 1: You know where you will get your breaking news, your analysis,

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Speaker 1: and your fearless commentary.

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Speaker 2: As they say, love you all, We'll see you. Souit

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Speaker 2: Bank