1
00:00:08,165 --> 00:00:14,195
Speaker 1: Life Audio. There are young Americans today who want revolution.

2
00:00:14,735 --> 00:00:17,495
Speaker 1: They feel that the country has failed them and they

3
00:00:17,575 --> 00:00:20,204
Speaker 1: don't believe that it can be reformed back into a

4
00:00:20,265 --> 00:00:23,044
Speaker 1: thing that's worthy. The revolution we need is a revolution

5
00:00:23,064 --> 00:00:23,864
Speaker 1: in the hearts of our people.

6
00:00:30,635 --> 00:00:33,815
Speaker 2: Hey, thanks for joining us. This is part two of

7
00:00:33,875 --> 00:00:37,215
Speaker 2: my interview with Jeremy Boring. And by the way, if

8
00:00:37,235 --> 00:00:39,675
Speaker 2: you didn't see part one, go check that out. As

9
00:00:39,695 --> 00:00:42,135
Speaker 2: you're going to see, Jeremy has a lot to say

10
00:00:42,555 --> 00:00:46,394
Speaker 2: about this unique cultural moment we're living in right now.

11
00:00:46,615 --> 00:00:49,415
Speaker 2: I think you're really going to enjoy this. Let's dive in.

12
00:00:51,255 --> 00:00:54,335
Speaker 2: And because of social media and a whole new young

13
00:00:54,395 --> 00:00:58,915
Speaker 2: generation that seems to know so little about history, crazy time, no?

14
00:00:58,975 --> 00:01:01,875
Speaker 1: Well, it's a time of nihilism and despair. And that

15
00:01:01,935 --> 00:01:04,595
Speaker 1: is the thing that we most have to combat. Because

16
00:01:04,715 --> 00:01:08,755
Speaker 1: whatever the future is, it still depends on our creativity.

17
00:01:08,775 --> 00:01:09,995
Speaker 1: It still depends on us doing.

18
00:01:10,315 --> 00:01:13,885
Speaker 2: So we have to create, we not just react, not

19
00:01:13,925 --> 00:01:17,925
Speaker 2: just criticize, but okay, we're going to give you an alternative.

20
00:01:18,065 --> 00:01:20,365
Speaker 2: And really what we're giving them is what they're searching

21
00:01:20,425 --> 00:01:24,905
Speaker 2: for deep down inside. Meaning. Yeah, meaning. And that comes

22
00:01:24,965 --> 00:01:28,015
Speaker 2: from a relationship with God as given to us in

23
00:01:28,075 --> 00:01:32,795
Speaker 2: this scripture. And so many people know nothing about this

24
00:01:32,875 --> 00:01:33,175
Speaker 2: at all.

25
00:01:33,775 --> 00:01:38,914
Speaker 1: Well, you know, we've, we've failed. I'm, I'm late Gen X,

26
00:01:38,944 --> 00:01:41,605
Speaker 1: you know, last couple of years of Gen X and

27
00:01:42,485 --> 00:01:45,625
Speaker 1: Gen X and the boomers have, have, we've created a

28
00:01:45,645 --> 00:01:46,725
Speaker 1: lot of good things. We've done a lot of good

29
00:01:46,745 --> 00:01:49,585
Speaker 1: things in the world, but as with all people, we're

30
00:01:49,625 --> 00:01:51,245
Speaker 1: fallen and we're broken and we've done a lot of

31
00:01:51,265 --> 00:01:55,275
Speaker 1: bad too. We, allowed this generation that's emerging, this Gen

32
00:01:55,295 --> 00:02:00,055
Speaker 1: Z generation, we allowed their young men to be raised

33
00:02:00,555 --> 00:02:02,095
Speaker 1: in a culture that told them they were the enemy,

34
00:02:02,795 --> 00:02:05,615
Speaker 1: that told them that they were responsible for historic evils that,

35
00:02:05,735 --> 00:02:08,234
Speaker 1: of course, they had nothing to do with. Why? Why

36
00:02:08,275 --> 00:02:11,294
Speaker 1: all of this? Well, because we've, because we let them down.

37
00:02:11,335 --> 00:02:13,715
Speaker 1: I mean, as a conservative, one of the places we

38
00:02:13,755 --> 00:02:16,995
Speaker 1: make a mistake is we always put forward the, here's

39
00:02:17,035 --> 00:02:20,295
Speaker 1: how it should be. Here's the things you should do,

40
00:02:20,755 --> 00:02:25,005
Speaker 1: kind of rules, you know, graduate high school, don't have

41
00:02:25,045 --> 00:02:27,125
Speaker 1: a baby before you get married and all these sorts.

42
00:02:27,405 --> 00:02:27,845
Speaker 2: And it's true.

43
00:02:27,885 --> 00:02:30,165
Speaker 1: If you do those things, you will find yourself in

44
00:02:30,205 --> 00:02:32,325
Speaker 1: a tier of people who's largely successful.

45
00:02:32,625 --> 00:02:32,805
Speaker 2: Yeah.

46
00:02:33,145 --> 00:02:36,045
Speaker 1: But that's fair. That's useless information to people who've already failed.

47
00:02:36,925 --> 00:02:39,925
Speaker 1: You know, we, and sometimes conservatives, when someone says, well,

48
00:02:39,965 --> 00:02:41,125
Speaker 1: I didn't do one of those things.

49
00:02:41,185 --> 00:02:41,565
Speaker 2: What now?

50
00:02:41,845 --> 00:02:43,565
Speaker 1: Well, you had, you had choices.

51
00:02:43,885 --> 00:02:44,085
Speaker 2: Yeah.

52
00:02:44,625 --> 00:02:47,845
Speaker 1: Which is a kind of abandonment of, of our fellow man.

53
00:02:48,005 --> 00:02:48,285
Speaker 2: Yes.

54
00:02:48,685 --> 00:02:52,965
Speaker 1: The truth is most people, uh, find themselves falling short. Well,

55
00:02:53,345 --> 00:02:55,385
Speaker 1: I suppose not most people all fall short of the

56
00:02:55,405 --> 00:02:59,515
Speaker 1: glory of God. And we have to accept that people

57
00:02:59,645 --> 00:03:04,195
Speaker 1: don't really make choices from the hypothetical slate of infinity choices.

58
00:03:04,575 --> 00:03:07,635
Speaker 1: They make choices from what's put in front of them

59
00:03:07,695 --> 00:03:10,495
Speaker 1: by the culture. If you live in a country today

60
00:03:10,535 --> 00:03:13,815
Speaker 1: where no one smokes, it's very easy to choose not

61
00:03:13,855 --> 00:03:17,185
Speaker 1: to smoke. Mm-hmm. if this were 80 years ago, everybody

62
00:03:17,225 --> 00:03:18,805
Speaker 1: in this room right now would be smoking and you

63
00:03:18,825 --> 00:03:21,395
Speaker 1: and I would be smoking while we're doing this. Would

64
00:03:21,415 --> 00:03:24,115
Speaker 1: we have had the choice not to smoke? Certainly, just

65
00:03:24,135 --> 00:03:26,395
Speaker 1: like today, we have the choice to smoke, but that's

66
00:03:26,435 --> 00:03:29,815
Speaker 1: actually the novel choice in those environments. And as conservatives,

67
00:03:30,735 --> 00:03:32,875
Speaker 1: the boomers and Gen X in particular, we've done a

68
00:03:32,955 --> 00:03:35,975
Speaker 1: bad job of offering good choices to this next generation.

69
00:03:36,395 --> 00:03:38,755
Speaker 1: We can say they're historically illiterate. Well, whose fault is that?

70
00:03:38,795 --> 00:03:42,955
Speaker 1: They didn't teach themselves. We can say they're too online

71
00:03:43,015 --> 00:03:46,255
Speaker 1: and given over to Pornography and true crime and conspiratorial

72
00:03:46,295 --> 00:03:49,655
Speaker 1: thinking and anti-Semitism who locked them out of their schools

73
00:03:49,795 --> 00:03:51,515
Speaker 1: and locked them in front of their computers for two

74
00:03:51,555 --> 00:03:54,575
Speaker 1: years during the most socially and ideologically formative years of

75
00:03:54,595 --> 00:03:56,715
Speaker 1: their lives. They didn't do that to themselves. We did

76
00:03:56,735 --> 00:04:00,255
Speaker 1: that to them. And it's still our world. It's not

77
00:04:00,275 --> 00:04:02,115
Speaker 1: their world yet. They, you know, they're young and they

78
00:04:02,135 --> 00:04:04,615
Speaker 1: think it's their world. What do they want? When do

79
00:04:04,635 --> 00:04:05,065
Speaker 1: they want it?

80
00:04:05,395 --> 00:04:05,635
Speaker 2: OK.

81
00:04:07,295 --> 00:04:09,315
Speaker 1: But it's still ours. We still have time to do

82
00:04:09,335 --> 00:04:12,755
Speaker 1: something about this. We've we've made mistakes and we've given

83
00:04:12,795 --> 00:04:15,715
Speaker 1: them bad options. And yes, some of them will still

84
00:04:15,755 --> 00:04:18,435
Speaker 1: choose the right thing, but only the ones who go

85
00:04:18,495 --> 00:04:20,555
Speaker 1: above and beyond to locate the right thing, because we

86
00:04:20,595 --> 00:04:23,295
Speaker 1: sure haven't put it in front of them. So let's

87
00:04:23,335 --> 00:04:26,635
Speaker 1: do like that. That's what's that's what remains for you

88
00:04:26,675 --> 00:04:29,235
Speaker 1: and for me and for our generation. If we want

89
00:04:29,255 --> 00:04:31,375
Speaker 1: to see, you know, if you start to feel that

90
00:04:31,415 --> 00:04:33,795
Speaker 1: maybe we're on step one of the 10 steps toward

91
00:04:35,235 --> 00:04:40,005
Speaker 1: toward the worst expressions of anti-Semitism, it doesn't follow necessarily

92
00:04:40,045 --> 00:04:41,865
Speaker 1: that the next step is step two. It could be

93
00:04:41,885 --> 00:04:44,115
Speaker 1: that the next step is the step back. But the

94
00:04:44,135 --> 00:04:45,635
Speaker 1: only way we're going to get the step back is

95
00:04:45,675 --> 00:04:48,815
Speaker 1: if we put better choices in front of people, not

96
00:04:48,895 --> 00:04:51,575
Speaker 1: grant their every premise because they're young and some of

97
00:04:51,595 --> 00:04:58,355
Speaker 1: their premises are wrong, not sacrifice our values and destroy

98
00:04:58,395 --> 00:05:01,315
Speaker 1: our country to give them the things that they're demanding. No,

99
00:05:01,915 --> 00:05:04,015
Speaker 1: to help them see that the things that they actually crave,

100
00:05:04,035 --> 00:05:07,145
Speaker 1: the things that they actually desire aren't found in a

101
00:05:07,165 --> 00:05:10,685
Speaker 1: sort of Christ is King tribal sloganeering, but are found

102
00:05:10,725 --> 00:05:12,905
Speaker 1: in the substance of the gospel because Christ is King.

103
00:05:13,725 --> 00:05:17,425
Speaker 1: that they're not found in a politics of tyranny and oppression. No,

104
00:05:17,445 --> 00:05:19,625
Speaker 1: they're actually found in a politics of freedom because it's

105
00:05:19,665 --> 00:05:22,205
Speaker 1: for freedom that Christ has made us free. They're not

106
00:05:22,285 --> 00:05:26,415
Speaker 1: actually found in this sort of radical atomization in which we've,

107
00:05:27,075 --> 00:05:30,135
Speaker 1: this desert of radical atomization, but found in community and

108
00:05:30,195 --> 00:05:35,935
Speaker 1: found in actual geographic community, looking at someone, sitting in

109
00:05:35,975 --> 00:05:40,475
Speaker 1: a place with someone at a time. Those are Well,

110
00:05:40,485 --> 00:05:42,575
Speaker 1: that's us. That's what we still exist on the planet

111
00:05:42,595 --> 00:05:45,895
Speaker 1: to do. And I happen to believe that this new

112
00:05:45,935 --> 00:05:48,315
Speaker 1: technology is a great frontier for that, but it's hardly

113
00:05:48,355 --> 00:05:49,094
Speaker 1: the only frontier.

114
00:05:49,535 --> 00:05:50,215
Speaker 2: What are the others?

115
00:05:50,515 --> 00:05:52,415
Speaker 1: Well, we actually have to sit down with young people

116
00:05:52,475 --> 00:05:55,715
Speaker 1: and invite them into our geographic communities. And we still

117
00:05:55,755 --> 00:05:57,485
Speaker 1: have to be active in social media and we still

118
00:05:57,495 --> 00:05:59,765
Speaker 1: have to be active on the Internet. And, you know,

119
00:06:00,025 --> 00:06:03,245
Speaker 1: having dominion over the Earth has always been a pretty

120
00:06:03,285 --> 00:06:06,585
Speaker 1: expansive proposition. And the digital age only makes it more

121
00:06:06,645 --> 00:06:08,645
Speaker 1: expansive because there's just more places that we have to

122
00:06:08,685 --> 00:06:09,465
Speaker 1: have dominion.

123
00:06:10,615 --> 00:06:15,315
Speaker 2: Thinking politically for a moment, who would you see as

124
00:06:15,495 --> 00:06:18,075
Speaker 2: a great person to run for the presidency?

125
00:06:18,695 --> 00:06:20,815
Speaker 1: Oh, no. What are you doing in 2028?

126
00:06:20,815 --> 00:06:24,095
Speaker 2: I'd be the last thing I'd want to do.

127
00:06:24,455 --> 00:06:27,355
Speaker 1: Well, that's probably a pretty good qualification right there.

128
00:06:27,395 --> 00:06:29,295
Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's funny because one of the questions

129
00:06:29,315 --> 00:06:30,714
Speaker 2: I was going to ask you is if you could

130
00:06:30,755 --> 00:06:33,775
Speaker 2: have anyone else's job for one day, what would you choose?

131
00:06:34,345 --> 00:06:37,305
Speaker 2: And I thought, well, what would I choose? And I thought, well,

132
00:06:37,865 --> 00:06:39,745
Speaker 2: I would not want to keep the job, but I

133
00:06:39,765 --> 00:06:42,765
Speaker 2: would like to be the president for one day just

134
00:06:42,805 --> 00:06:44,845
Speaker 2: to see what it's like, you know, just to see

135
00:06:45,185 --> 00:06:48,185
Speaker 2: what they really have to deal with. But Chris, I

136
00:06:48,285 --> 00:06:50,945
Speaker 2: have my thoughts on that. But do you see anybody

137
00:06:51,005 --> 00:06:53,195
Speaker 2: that you think this would be a good guy that

138
00:06:53,235 --> 00:06:55,235
Speaker 2: maybe we ought to be looking toward?

139
00:06:55,255 --> 00:06:57,595
Speaker 1: Well, I've always loved Ted Cruz. You know, I think

140
00:06:57,655 --> 00:07:02,284
Speaker 1: that he he still represents a a set of values

141
00:07:02,305 --> 00:07:04,585
Speaker 1: that feel a bit out of fashion today, but I

142
00:07:04,625 --> 00:07:07,485
Speaker 1: think are still the only hope for the country. And

143
00:07:07,525 --> 00:07:12,545
Speaker 1: that's the kind of conservatism that people like to blame

144
00:07:12,605 --> 00:07:17,105
Speaker 1: for all of our mistakes. Conservatism didn't fail us. We

145
00:07:17,175 --> 00:07:20,495
Speaker 1: failed because we're people. There are no perfect systems, of course.

146
00:07:21,075 --> 00:07:23,935
Speaker 1: All the systems created by man reflect the flaws of man.

147
00:07:24,795 --> 00:07:28,535
Speaker 1: But what we call conservatism in this country, historically, traditional

148
00:07:28,655 --> 00:07:31,395
Speaker 1: American conservatism, which is, by the way, the only place

149
00:07:31,415 --> 00:07:34,695
Speaker 1: where you find actual liberalism in the world, traditional American liberalism,

150
00:07:34,755 --> 00:07:38,735
Speaker 1: not leftism, which, of course, is illiberal in every possible way.

151
00:07:38,775 --> 00:07:43,815
Speaker 1: But the unique American proposition, which is a fundamentally Protestant

152
00:07:43,865 --> 00:07:49,585
Speaker 1: Christian proposition, but it's not exclusively the Protestant Christians aren't

153
00:07:49,605 --> 00:07:53,725
Speaker 1: the only beneficiaries of the great proposition. That is still

154
00:07:53,765 --> 00:07:57,655
Speaker 1: the best system ever conceived of by man. And the

155
00:07:57,695 --> 00:08:00,075
Speaker 1: fact that we didn't fight hard enough for it, the

156
00:08:00,095 --> 00:08:01,915
Speaker 1: fact that we allowed it to be corrupted, the fact

157
00:08:01,935 --> 00:08:06,655
Speaker 1: that we allowed it to be co-opted. One of the

158
00:08:07,115 --> 00:08:10,025
Speaker 1: tricks of our time is that people look at something

159
00:08:10,145 --> 00:08:13,485
Speaker 1: good and they say that since we failed, we should

160
00:08:13,505 --> 00:08:15,425
Speaker 1: throw out the something good. The great example is people

161
00:08:15,445 --> 00:08:19,405
Speaker 1: will say, there's a lot of like sentiment on parts

162
00:08:19,445 --> 00:08:22,175
Speaker 1: of the right today. You find it among sort of

163
00:08:22,235 --> 00:08:26,285
Speaker 1: the Catholic Integralists, or even the sort of soft Catholic Integralists,

164
00:08:26,305 --> 00:08:28,805
Speaker 1: who I don't think are truly Catholic Integralists, but flirt

165
00:08:28,825 --> 00:08:31,525
Speaker 1: with it. You find it sometimes among the reform bros

166
00:08:31,805 --> 00:08:35,844
Speaker 1: in Protestantism. And you'll hear this idea, or the Heritage

167
00:08:35,905 --> 00:08:39,305
Speaker 1: America bros, you'll hear this idea that they'll say, well,

168
00:08:40,005 --> 00:08:42,925
Speaker 1: John Adams said the Constitution is only suitable for a

169
00:08:42,975 --> 00:08:45,875
Speaker 1: moral and religious people. We're not a moral and religious people,

170
00:08:46,035 --> 00:08:48,295
Speaker 1: so we have to get rid of the Constitution. And

171
00:08:48,335 --> 00:08:51,755
Speaker 1: I'll say, no, that's not obvious to me at all. Yes,

172
00:08:51,795 --> 00:08:55,095
Speaker 1: the Constitution is only suitable for a moral and religious people. Yes,

173
00:08:55,135 --> 00:08:57,415
Speaker 1: we are no longer a moral and religious people. The

174
00:08:57,455 --> 00:09:00,855
Speaker 1: Constitution is still the best form of government ever devised

175
00:09:00,895 --> 00:09:02,985
Speaker 1: by the mind of man. Why don't we do something

176
00:09:02,995 --> 00:09:05,345
Speaker 1: about becoming a moral and religious people again? Why don't

177
00:09:05,365 --> 00:09:08,685
Speaker 1: we become the people for whom conservatism can work? Why

178
00:09:08,705 --> 00:09:11,585
Speaker 1: don't we become the people for whom the Constitution can work?

179
00:09:11,965 --> 00:09:16,345
Speaker 2: And that happened in large part due to a spiritual

180
00:09:16,385 --> 00:09:19,745
Speaker 2: awakening that preceded the formation of our country, the preaching

181
00:09:19,825 --> 00:09:23,934
Speaker 2: of George Whitefield and others. And there was a spiritual

182
00:09:23,975 --> 00:09:27,195
Speaker 2: awakening that sort of prepared the soil, you know, for

183
00:09:27,235 --> 00:09:29,435
Speaker 2: what was to come. Because look what happened in France,

184
00:09:29,515 --> 00:09:32,835
Speaker 2: you know, they had a revolution too. But it didn't

185
00:09:33,015 --> 00:09:36,415
Speaker 2: go like ours went. Ours is the only revolution in

186
00:09:36,485 --> 00:09:41,564
Speaker 2: human history that produced something good. All the other revolutions

187
00:09:41,625 --> 00:09:44,604
Speaker 2: produced chaos. But I would add one other thing in

188
00:09:44,625 --> 00:09:47,444
Speaker 2: a more modern note. We had what was called the

189
00:09:47,525 --> 00:09:51,825
Speaker 2: Jesus Revolution. That's the last great spiritual awakening in America

190
00:09:51,965 --> 00:09:52,665
Speaker 2: back in the 70s.

191
00:09:52,725 --> 00:09:56,665
Speaker 1: And I think— Available from Lionsgate Pictures, every other movie.

192
00:09:56,695 --> 00:09:58,095
Speaker 2: Well, it was made in a new movie. I wasn't

193
00:09:58,115 --> 00:10:01,535
Speaker 2: trying to promote the film, but true. But the thing is,

194
00:10:01,635 --> 00:10:05,415
Speaker 2: is that we need another spiritual awakening. That's how we produce.

195
00:10:05,665 --> 00:10:10,064
Speaker 2: a moral people. That's right. Morality comes from, from a

196
00:10:10,565 --> 00:10:14,584
Speaker 2: change of heart and a belief in something absolute and true.

197
00:10:15,145 --> 00:10:18,285
Speaker 2: And you find that in a relationship with Christ and

198
00:10:18,345 --> 00:10:20,105
Speaker 2: believing the Bible is the word of God.

199
00:10:20,345 --> 00:10:22,365
Speaker 1: That's right. And you know, you, I don't want to

200
00:10:22,375 --> 00:10:24,465
Speaker 1: skip over a point that you made because I think

201
00:10:24,505 --> 00:10:27,684
Speaker 1: it's so important, which is ours is the only revolution

202
00:10:28,465 --> 00:10:30,905
Speaker 1: that's ever had a positive outcome. The French Revolution was

203
00:10:30,925 --> 00:10:36,085
Speaker 1: a godless revolution. It restarted history. Instead of history being

204
00:10:36,125 --> 00:10:39,595
Speaker 1: judged from Christ, it's judged from year zero, right, from

205
00:10:39,615 --> 00:10:43,175
Speaker 1: the revolution. The Russian Revolution, obviously a godless revolution. The

206
00:10:43,215 --> 00:10:46,745
Speaker 1: Maoist Revolution, a godless revolution. The French Revolution killed tens

207
00:10:46,765 --> 00:10:49,765
Speaker 1: of thousands of people by the guillotine alone. And we

208
00:10:49,785 --> 00:10:52,065
Speaker 1: look at that as almost a successful revolution compared to

209
00:10:52,085 --> 00:10:55,594
Speaker 1: the revolutions of the 20th century, which killed 100 million

210
00:10:55,975 --> 00:10:59,335
Speaker 1: people in the name of a godless ideology. And so

211
00:10:59,395 --> 00:11:03,595
Speaker 1: there are young Americans today who want revolution. They feel

212
00:11:03,635 --> 00:11:06,495
Speaker 1: that the country has failed them. And they don't believe

213
00:11:06,535 --> 00:11:09,995
Speaker 1: that it can be reformed back into a thing that's

214
00:11:10,055 --> 00:11:12,475
Speaker 1: worthy or a thing that can bring us human flourishing.

215
00:11:12,875 --> 00:11:15,275
Speaker 1: And so they want people to pay. They want to

216
00:11:15,315 --> 00:11:17,735
Speaker 1: just tear it all down. And I would only say

217
00:11:17,795 --> 00:11:20,775
Speaker 1: that everyone who ever engages in that project dies, first

218
00:11:20,815 --> 00:11:22,795
Speaker 1: of all. All the people who led the French Revolution

219
00:11:22,835 --> 00:11:25,645
Speaker 1: got guillotined by the end of the French Revolution. And

220
00:11:25,705 --> 00:11:30,725
Speaker 1: everyone else dies too. Revolution is hardly the outcome that

221
00:11:30,745 --> 00:11:36,485
Speaker 1: we should be craving. It's a deep hubris to believe

222
00:11:36,565 --> 00:11:39,535
Speaker 1: that somehow this one would be the exception. Somehow this

223
00:11:39,595 --> 00:11:41,525
Speaker 1: one would be. different. This one would be just as

224
00:11:41,585 --> 00:11:43,785
Speaker 1: bloody and horrible as all the others, and what comes

225
00:11:43,845 --> 00:11:45,335
Speaker 1: on the other side of it would be just as

226
00:11:45,405 --> 00:11:49,554
Speaker 1: terrible and tyrannical and destructive of human flourishing as all

227
00:11:49,575 --> 00:11:51,594
Speaker 1: of the others. The American Revolution is a kind of

228
00:11:51,715 --> 00:11:56,035
Speaker 1: one-of-one moment, and it isn't because we were, as some

229
00:11:56,055 --> 00:11:58,495
Speaker 1: people will say, well, the American Revolution worked because we

230
00:11:58,515 --> 00:12:03,235
Speaker 1: were Anglo-Protestant Christians. Well, no, the British had a revolution, too.

231
00:12:03,735 --> 00:12:06,704
Speaker 1: They chopped off Charles I's head, or hung him, I guess.

232
00:12:07,845 --> 00:12:10,865
Speaker 1: It wasn't good. You know, Cromwell came in and what

233
00:12:10,885 --> 00:12:13,385
Speaker 1: did he do? He, he was almost as bad as

234
00:12:13,425 --> 00:12:16,804
Speaker 1: Henry the eighth. He destroyed the churches. He, uh, it

235
00:12:16,845 --> 00:12:19,875
Speaker 1: was a, it was a, it wasn't godless by a

236
00:12:19,885 --> 00:12:22,895
Speaker 1: sort of modern atheistic standard, but it was destructive. And

237
00:12:22,915 --> 00:12:25,515
Speaker 1: what did they do? They, they brought the monarchy back.

238
00:12:26,015 --> 00:12:28,475
Speaker 1: You know, the, the great insight of the British, their

239
00:12:28,515 --> 00:12:30,515
Speaker 1: revolution didn't work, but the great insight of the British

240
00:12:30,555 --> 00:12:32,595
Speaker 1: was to do a do over. It was at a

241
00:12:32,615 --> 00:12:35,235
Speaker 1: certain point they went, well, that didn't work out so well.

242
00:12:35,275 --> 00:12:36,995
Speaker 1: Why don't we get Charlie on the throne and see

243
00:12:37,015 --> 00:12:38,855
Speaker 1: if we can get back to the good old days. Uh,

244
00:12:39,965 --> 00:12:43,344
Speaker 1: In an industrialized world, you don't get to go back

245
00:12:43,985 --> 00:12:46,925
Speaker 1: because the destruction will be too profound. The revolution we

246
00:12:46,965 --> 00:12:48,505
Speaker 1: need is a revolution in the hearts of our people.

247
00:12:49,025 --> 00:12:52,025
Speaker 1: And to that end, I completely agree that what will

248
00:12:52,205 --> 00:12:56,045
Speaker 1: save this country, I would disagree with John Adams, which

249
00:12:56,085 --> 00:12:58,385
Speaker 1: I realize is a dangerous thing to do. I would

250
00:12:58,425 --> 00:13:00,785
Speaker 1: only disagree in the choice of words because we live

251
00:13:00,825 --> 00:13:02,965
Speaker 1: in a different time than he did. In the time

252
00:13:03,005 --> 00:13:06,285
Speaker 1: that he lived, when you said moral and religious, what

253
00:13:06,325 --> 00:13:08,225
Speaker 1: you meant was righteous and Christian.

254
00:13:08,325 --> 00:13:08,745
Speaker 2: That's right.

255
00:13:10,075 --> 00:13:11,515
Speaker 1: And so I would just use the words that make

256
00:13:11,555 --> 00:13:12,475
Speaker 1: sense in our context.

257
00:13:12,535 --> 00:13:16,255
Speaker 2: That's very true. Okay. So sort of many of your

258
00:13:16,295 --> 00:13:20,855
Speaker 2: insights are amazing. Thanks so much. I'm so glad that

259
00:13:21,735 --> 00:13:25,834
Speaker 2: you're opining more and talking about these things.

260
00:13:26,015 --> 00:13:26,835
Speaker 1: You're the only one.

261
00:13:27,335 --> 00:13:30,915
Speaker 2: Oh, well, you have so much to say. And your

262
00:13:30,955 --> 00:13:34,705
Speaker 2: insights are so interesting to me. And it's fascinating listening

263
00:13:34,735 --> 00:13:37,485
Speaker 2: to you. So I think, you know, the door that

264
00:13:37,525 --> 00:13:40,925
Speaker 2: closed for you with The Daily Wire, You have other

265
00:13:40,965 --> 00:13:44,025
Speaker 2: doors that are going to open for you in the future. And,

266
00:13:44,205 --> 00:13:46,935
Speaker 2: you know, everything in life is preparation for something else.

267
00:13:47,475 --> 00:13:50,934
Speaker 2: And it's a hard chapter of your life, but God

268
00:13:51,075 --> 00:13:54,235
Speaker 2: has new chapters. And I'm really excited to see what

269
00:13:54,275 --> 00:13:56,454
Speaker 2: He's going to do through you, Jeremy, because I think

270
00:13:56,495 --> 00:14:02,505
Speaker 2: you're a really amazing person. You're You know, you're part creative,

271
00:14:02,565 --> 00:14:07,885
Speaker 2: you're part analytical thinker, you're philosopher, you're a bit theologian,

272
00:14:08,295 --> 00:14:11,795
Speaker 2: all kind of mixed into this interesting package of a

273
00:14:11,835 --> 00:14:13,714
Speaker 2: man that wears a key around his neck. And I'm

274
00:14:13,735 --> 00:14:15,615
Speaker 2: going to ask you that question at the very end,

275
00:14:15,675 --> 00:14:17,554
Speaker 2: what the key is all about. But I want to

276
00:14:17,595 --> 00:14:22,045
Speaker 2: ask things from your experience. Who's the hardest person you've

277
00:14:22,105 --> 00:14:22,825
Speaker 2: ever interviewed?

278
00:14:23,825 --> 00:14:27,245
Speaker 1: Oh, the hardest person I've ever interviewed. You know, I

279
00:14:27,255 --> 00:14:28,925
Speaker 1: haven't been interviewing people for very long.

280
00:14:28,945 --> 00:14:29,645
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't know.

281
00:14:30,105 --> 00:14:30,745
Speaker 1: I'm doing it now.

282
00:14:30,985 --> 00:14:31,975
Speaker 2: It's not easy, is it?

283
00:14:32,245 --> 00:14:32,985
Speaker 1: No, it is not easy.

284
00:14:33,165 --> 00:14:36,445
Speaker 2: Some are easier than, like, you're super easy. I just like, listen,

285
00:14:36,785 --> 00:14:37,085
Speaker 2: you know.

286
00:14:38,185 --> 00:14:40,265
Speaker 1: The hardest thing in an interview is that you have

287
00:14:40,285 --> 00:14:45,025
Speaker 1: to remain very curious. And I found at the Daily Wire.

288
00:14:46,085 --> 00:14:48,345
Speaker 2: If I'm not interested in the person, that's not going

289
00:14:48,365 --> 00:14:49,025
Speaker 2: to be a good interview.

290
00:14:49,055 --> 00:14:49,885
Speaker 1: It's not going to be a good interview.

291
00:14:49,905 --> 00:14:51,635
Speaker 2: I have to care about it.

292
00:14:52,855 --> 00:14:56,555
Speaker 1: My hosts at the Daily Wire were often so interesting.

293
00:14:57,315 --> 00:15:03,195
Speaker 1: that they couldn't always be interested, which I have tried

294
00:15:03,235 --> 00:15:06,435
Speaker 1: to be mindful of that in starting this new chapter

295
00:15:06,455 --> 00:15:08,845
Speaker 1: of my life. The other people who are very difficult

296
00:15:08,865 --> 00:15:12,245
Speaker 1: to interview, of course, are people who can be very,

297
00:15:12,325 --> 00:15:18,145
Speaker 1: very smart, but they're just not communicative. And I've had

298
00:15:18,165 --> 00:15:20,065
Speaker 1: a few of those people on the show where I'm

299
00:15:20,265 --> 00:15:24,125
Speaker 1: so interested in what they have to say. They're such

300
00:15:24,575 --> 00:15:27,515
Speaker 1: lovely thinkers and such lovely writers. but they get a

301
00:15:27,515 --> 00:15:29,855
Speaker 1: little nervous on camera and they can't open up. And

302
00:15:29,875 --> 00:15:32,275
Speaker 1: you're trying to help bring that along, which I think

303
00:15:32,315 --> 00:15:35,675
Speaker 1: is a skill. There are certainly people who can find

304
00:15:36,335 --> 00:15:38,855
Speaker 1: that wonderful interview out of those people, but I have

305
00:15:38,895 --> 00:15:41,645
Speaker 1: not cultivated that skill. And I haven't had anyone on

306
00:15:41,665 --> 00:15:43,305
Speaker 1: my show where I wish I hadn't had them on

307
00:15:43,325 --> 00:15:45,345
Speaker 1: the show. I've had a few people on the show

308
00:15:45,365 --> 00:15:46,985
Speaker 1: where I feel that I did them a disservice by

309
00:15:47,045 --> 00:15:49,965
Speaker 1: not being better at my job to help them find

310
00:15:50,005 --> 00:15:50,305
Speaker 1: their voice.

311
00:15:50,345 --> 00:15:52,045
Speaker 2: Who's the easiest person you've interviewed?

312
00:15:52,545 --> 00:15:55,005
Speaker 1: Oh, goodness. Well, I mean, James Lindsay is very easy

313
00:15:55,045 --> 00:15:58,355
Speaker 1: to interview because... You basically ask one question and then

314
00:15:59,015 --> 00:16:01,775
Speaker 1: an hour later you get an hour of great material.

315
00:16:02,865 --> 00:16:06,085
Speaker 2: That's amazing. So like I'm looking at your like what

316
00:16:06,165 --> 00:16:08,705
Speaker 2: you like. OK, so you're a guy that has a

317
00:16:08,745 --> 00:16:12,185
Speaker 2: background in Hollywood. You love film storytelling. Like if you

318
00:16:12,225 --> 00:16:15,165
Speaker 2: had to name five of your top films. Oh, yeah.

319
00:16:15,205 --> 00:16:15,765
Speaker 2: What would they be?

320
00:16:16,085 --> 00:16:18,835
Speaker 1: Well, I have very pedestrian taste in movies. I like

321
00:16:18,855 --> 00:16:21,835
Speaker 1: to be entertained. The movies that have the most impacted

322
00:16:21,855 --> 00:16:23,215
Speaker 1: me in my life, Braveheart.

323
00:16:22,875 --> 00:16:24,855
Speaker 2: Was a sort of- That's on my top five list.

324
00:16:24,935 --> 00:16:27,795
Speaker 1: Certainly a turning point for my faith and my worldview.

325
00:16:27,975 --> 00:16:28,495
Speaker 2: Great point.

326
00:16:28,595 --> 00:16:31,475
Speaker 1: The Wrath of Khan is probably my favorite movie.

327
00:16:32,735 --> 00:16:34,755
Speaker 2: Ricardo Montalban. Wait, what was his name?

328
00:16:34,775 --> 00:16:35,725
Speaker 1: Yeah, Ricardo Montalban.

329
00:16:36,395 --> 00:16:39,325
Speaker 2: Corinthian Leather. Yeah, that's right. That was a commercial. Forget it.

330
00:16:39,325 --> 00:16:41,165
Speaker 2: He did. Yeah, Wrath of Khan.

331
00:16:42,925 --> 00:16:47,285
Speaker 1: It's not a movie, but the CBS miniseries Lonesome Dove,

332
00:16:48,165 --> 00:16:53,965
Speaker 1: based on Larry McCartney's novels. With Tommy Lee Jones and

333
00:16:54,025 --> 00:16:58,425
Speaker 1: Robert Duvall, certainly one of my favorite pieces of entertainment

334
00:16:58,445 --> 00:17:00,805
Speaker 1: of all time. Oh, man, top five.

335
00:17:01,735 --> 00:17:06,034
Speaker 2: So The Wrath of Khan, Lonesome Dove, Braveheart. Yes.

336
00:17:06,774 --> 00:17:10,435
Speaker 1: These are films that definitely you hear. I think if

337
00:17:10,455 --> 00:17:12,294
Speaker 1: you listen to Jeremy very long, you're going to hear

338
00:17:12,334 --> 00:17:12,794
Speaker 1: a lot of those.

339
00:17:12,814 --> 00:17:15,754
Speaker 2: I define my favorite film as if I'm flipping channels

340
00:17:15,834 --> 00:17:18,435
Speaker 2: on the television and I come across that film. though

341
00:17:18,475 --> 00:17:20,424
Speaker 2: I may own it, though I may have seen it,

342
00:17:20,534 --> 00:17:23,295
Speaker 2: you know, a hundred times, I'll stop and watch till

343
00:17:23,334 --> 00:17:25,364
Speaker 2: the commercial because I just like it so much.

344
00:17:25,504 --> 00:17:26,105
Speaker 1: What are your five?

345
00:17:26,984 --> 00:17:32,825
Speaker 2: Oh, it's hard to, Braveheart, number one, absolutely in there. Ben-Hur,

346
00:17:32,885 --> 00:17:37,125
Speaker 2: the Charlton Heston version. I just love everything about that movie.

347
00:17:37,445 --> 00:17:39,615
Speaker 1: It's the best depiction of Christ ever in a film.

348
00:17:39,875 --> 00:17:42,775
Speaker 2: It moved me as a non-believer. And the way that

349
00:17:42,794 --> 00:17:45,654
Speaker 2: they never shot him from the front, that music could swell.

350
00:17:45,695 --> 00:17:48,784
Speaker 2: And that scene with that, Charlton Heston's been taken as

351
00:17:48,865 --> 00:17:51,865
Speaker 2: a slave, and the Roman guard's beating him. And then

352
00:17:52,054 --> 00:17:55,225
Speaker 2: Jesus comes and brings him, you know, water. And he

353
00:17:55,294 --> 00:17:58,094
Speaker 2: looks up, and then the guard goes to hit him,

354
00:17:58,135 --> 00:18:00,955
Speaker 2: and he looks at Jesus. He just kind of backs off.

355
00:18:00,994 --> 00:18:03,354
Speaker 2: I love that. But I love Tombstone.

356
00:18:03,375 --> 00:18:05,754
Speaker 1: Tombstone is on. If it's on, I'm going to watch it.

357
00:18:05,774 --> 00:18:08,654
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just love Tombstone. I love The Patriot, another

358
00:18:08,695 --> 00:18:11,975
Speaker 2: Gibson film. And, you know, you have to admit, probably

359
00:18:11,994 --> 00:18:14,475
Speaker 2: shouldn't admit this as a pastor, I love The Godfather.

360
00:18:14,925 --> 00:18:17,824
Speaker 2: It's just an epic film, and I quote from it

361
00:18:17,905 --> 00:18:18,764
Speaker 2: all the time.

362
00:18:19,004 --> 00:18:21,225
Speaker 1: The Godfather and The Godfather 2. I mean, it's like

363
00:18:21,385 --> 00:18:21,965
Speaker 1: one work, right?

364
00:18:21,984 --> 00:18:23,794
Speaker 2: Not Godfather 3, but the first two.

365
00:18:24,284 --> 00:18:27,315
Speaker 1: Two out of three ain't bad. Yeah, I'm with you. Tombstone, 100%.

366
00:18:27,314 --> 00:18:29,094
Speaker 1: The Godfather, yes.

367
00:18:29,185 --> 00:18:31,014
Speaker 2: I love Gladiator 2 as well.

368
00:18:31,135 --> 00:18:33,614
Speaker 1: Gladiator is good. I've watched Gladiator as an adult and

369
00:18:33,655 --> 00:18:35,494
Speaker 1: liked it better than I liked it when it first

370
00:18:35,534 --> 00:18:36,834
Speaker 1: came out. I think when it first came out, I

371
00:18:36,875 --> 00:18:40,335
Speaker 1: held it to the Braveheart standard, and it couldn't get there.

372
00:18:40,354 --> 00:18:43,264
Speaker 1: But in its own right, it's a terrific film. A

373
00:18:43,284 --> 00:18:44,445
Speaker 1: terrific piece of filmmaking.

374
00:18:44,725 --> 00:18:47,804
Speaker 2: So if you could, you've heard this question before, maybe

375
00:18:47,824 --> 00:18:49,325
Speaker 2: you've asked it, I don't know. But if you could

376
00:18:49,344 --> 00:18:53,384
Speaker 2: have dinner with, you know, three people alive or dead,

377
00:18:53,665 --> 00:18:56,024
Speaker 2: not Jesus, we won't put, because he'd be number one

378
00:18:56,064 --> 00:18:59,845
Speaker 2: on our list, of course. But like just historical figures, whoever,

379
00:19:00,264 --> 00:19:02,295
Speaker 2: who would you like to sit down and just talk to?

380
00:19:02,314 --> 00:19:07,774
Speaker 1: Well, I like, you know, I like cantankerous, cantankerous fellas.

381
00:19:07,854 --> 00:19:09,635
Speaker 1: So I feel like I would get a big kick

382
00:19:09,675 --> 00:19:10,315
Speaker 1: out of Churchill.

383
00:19:10,935 --> 00:19:12,814
Speaker 2: I have a bust of Churchill in my office. I

384
00:19:12,834 --> 00:19:13,314
Speaker 2: love Churchill.

385
00:19:13,334 --> 00:19:15,115
Speaker 1: She's the villain of the Second World War, so I'm sure.

386
00:19:15,135 --> 00:19:17,875
Speaker 2: Have you ever been to that museum in England where

387
00:19:17,915 --> 00:19:19,174
Speaker 2: he ran the operations?

388
00:19:19,195 --> 00:19:20,014
Speaker 1: Yeah, the war rooms.

389
00:19:20,034 --> 00:19:21,395
Speaker 2: Did you see his jumpsuit?

390
00:19:21,494 --> 00:19:22,155
Speaker 1: Yeah, unbelievable.

391
00:19:22,175 --> 00:19:25,264
Speaker 2: He wore this little jumpsuit, and it was like really

392
00:19:25,445 --> 00:19:29,064
Speaker 2: wide and really small. But the guy was so brilliant.

393
00:19:29,165 --> 00:19:33,025
Speaker 1: Yeah. The Apostle Paul, who I suspect was also fairly cantankerous.

394
00:19:33,084 --> 00:19:35,484
Speaker 2: Churchill and Paul, that'd be an interesting combination.

395
00:19:35,524 --> 00:19:37,275
Speaker 1: Yeah, it'd be interesting to see which one of them

396
00:19:37,314 --> 00:19:40,614
Speaker 1: came out the most scathed, you know, at the end.

397
00:19:41,185 --> 00:19:44,085
Speaker 2: Yeah, one more.

398
00:19:44,385 --> 00:19:46,705
Speaker 1: One more. And it's a tie. I want to meet

399
00:19:47,385 --> 00:19:49,274
Speaker 1: George W. Bush and I want to meet Don Henley.

400
00:19:49,774 --> 00:19:50,874
Speaker 1: And I don't know that I'm going to get to

401
00:19:50,915 --> 00:19:52,534
Speaker 1: do either. But you got to pick some people who

402
00:19:52,554 --> 00:19:52,915
Speaker 1: are alive.

403
00:19:52,994 --> 00:19:54,574
Speaker 2: I saw the Eagles at the Sphere.

404
00:19:54,594 --> 00:19:55,254
Speaker 1: Oh, I did too.

405
00:19:55,385 --> 00:19:57,184
Speaker 2: And that's amazing, isn't it?

406
00:19:57,324 --> 00:19:58,184
Speaker 1: Oh, it's so wonderful.

407
00:19:58,284 --> 00:20:01,584
Speaker 2: I mean, they still, though they've had changes, of course,

408
00:20:01,784 --> 00:20:04,504
Speaker 2: Glenn Frey has died. And I saw them in the

409
00:20:04,584 --> 00:20:08,575
Speaker 2: original lineup with Randy Meisner. Oh, wow. But then I've

410
00:20:08,615 --> 00:20:12,814
Speaker 2: seen them, you know, with Timmy Schmidt. And with, I'm

411
00:20:12,834 --> 00:20:13,875
Speaker 2: blanking out his name.

412
00:20:14,074 --> 00:20:14,574
Speaker 1: Joe Walsh.

413
00:20:15,135 --> 00:20:18,394
Speaker 2: Well, Joe Walsh is amazing. And all the changes they made,

414
00:20:18,415 --> 00:20:19,854
Speaker 2: but they still sound like the Eagles.

415
00:20:19,975 --> 00:20:21,824
Speaker 1: So I've gotten to see them many times over the

416
00:20:21,865 --> 00:20:24,925
Speaker 1: years because they really impacted me when I was a teenager.

417
00:20:25,665 --> 00:20:27,944
Speaker 1: They got back together while I was in high school, right?

418
00:20:27,965 --> 00:20:30,584
Speaker 1: Which was a big moment in my life. I got

419
00:20:30,625 --> 00:20:33,225
Speaker 1: to see them on that History of the Eagles tour

420
00:20:33,385 --> 00:20:36,414
Speaker 1: where Bernie Ledin came out and played with them for

421
00:20:36,455 --> 00:20:38,534
Speaker 1: the first time since the 70s. And I saw them

422
00:20:38,594 --> 00:20:41,234
Speaker 1: on Hell Freezes Over with Don Felder. So the only

423
00:20:41,314 --> 00:20:43,234
Speaker 1: guy I never got to see play with him is

424
00:20:43,334 --> 00:20:45,655
Speaker 1: Randy Meisner, which would have been.

425
00:20:45,534 --> 00:20:48,374
Speaker 2: An amazing experience. If you're a music fan, here's a

426
00:20:48,415 --> 00:20:51,545
Speaker 2: little unknown thing, or maybe you know this already. The

427
00:20:51,645 --> 00:20:56,124
Speaker 2: single man that probably contributed more to that country rock

428
00:20:56,244 --> 00:21:00,624
Speaker 2: sound was Richie Fure. Richie Fure was a member of

429
00:21:00,685 --> 00:21:04,644
Speaker 2: the Buffalo Springfield. So it's Neil Young, Richie Fure, Stephen Stills.

430
00:21:05,415 --> 00:21:09,115
Speaker 2: And Jim Messina was in it for a season as well.

431
00:21:09,574 --> 00:21:13,804
Speaker 2: So when they broke up, obviously Crosby's still in Nashville.

432
00:21:13,984 --> 00:21:16,525
Speaker 2: Richie went on to form a band called Poco. His

433
00:21:16,584 --> 00:21:20,205
Speaker 2: original bass player was Randy Meisner. Well, the Eagles took

434
00:21:20,264 --> 00:21:24,024
Speaker 2: him from Richie. And then Randy left the band and

435
00:21:24,484 --> 00:21:27,825
Speaker 2: Tim Schmidt was in Poco and the Eagles took him

436
00:21:27,905 --> 00:21:32,195
Speaker 2: as well. But that sound, that country rock sound. It

437
00:21:32,254 --> 00:21:34,415
Speaker 2: was formed by Richie. And the cool thing is Richie

438
00:21:34,475 --> 00:21:36,895
Speaker 2: is a very strong Christian. He's a good friend of mine.

439
00:21:36,955 --> 00:21:40,534
Speaker 2: In fact, he actually performed the wedding for our oldest son, Christopher,

440
00:21:41,054 --> 00:21:43,335
Speaker 2: and was a pastor for a time. But he's sort

441
00:21:43,375 --> 00:21:46,734
Speaker 2: of an unknown hero of rock music and a very

442
00:21:46,955 --> 00:21:49,774
Speaker 2: strong believer. He doesn't get the credit he deserves. I

443
00:21:49,814 --> 00:21:51,054
Speaker 2: want to put that on the record.

444
00:21:51,094 --> 00:21:54,254
Speaker 1: And he must hate Don Henley for stealing his tenor

445
00:21:54,294 --> 00:21:55,255
Speaker 1: bass player twice.

446
00:21:56,215 --> 00:21:58,975
Speaker 2: I don't know. When I went and saw them, I

447
00:21:59,014 --> 00:22:01,764
Speaker 2: got briefly to meet... Joe Walsh in the back room.

448
00:22:01,804 --> 00:22:04,024
Speaker 2: What an amazing guitar player.

449
00:22:04,104 --> 00:22:06,084
Speaker 1: That's funny. He's the only Eagle that I've gotten to

450
00:22:06,125 --> 00:22:06,744
Speaker 1: meet is Joe Walsh.

451
00:22:06,784 --> 00:22:09,965
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love his playing and those songs

452
00:22:10,004 --> 00:22:14,294
Speaker 2: live are incredible. Hotel California, et cetera. So, um, what,

453
00:22:14,415 --> 00:22:17,534
Speaker 2: like what's your favorite food? My favorite food. Like if

454
00:22:17,554 --> 00:22:20,435
Speaker 2: you want, like maybe a guilty pleasure food.

455
00:22:20,675 --> 00:22:23,334
Speaker 1: Well, if I were on death row, this is, this

456
00:22:23,395 --> 00:22:26,055
Speaker 1: is the most, this is going to be humiliating because,

457
00:22:26,094 --> 00:22:28,575
Speaker 1: you know, people think that we have these exotic tastes

458
00:22:28,675 --> 00:22:31,664
Speaker 1: and we've, traveled the world. And if I were going

459
00:22:31,685 --> 00:22:33,824
Speaker 1: to die tomorrow, I'd want to, uh, black time moose

460
00:22:33,844 --> 00:22:36,955
Speaker 1: cake from the olive garden. That's like my, that's my

461
00:22:37,074 --> 00:22:37,695
Speaker 1: death row.

462
00:22:38,155 --> 00:22:39,994
Speaker 2: I don't even know what that is.

463
00:22:40,195 --> 00:22:44,475
Speaker 1: It's a guilty pleasure. Um, and then there's a, there's

464
00:22:44,494 --> 00:22:48,504
Speaker 1: a dish that's, um, very common in the part of

465
00:22:48,524 --> 00:22:50,284
Speaker 1: West Texas that I'm from. And I've never found it

466
00:22:50,465 --> 00:22:55,524
Speaker 1: anywhere else called carne guisada, which is stewed beef, right?

467
00:22:55,725 --> 00:22:59,455
Speaker 1: Beef and gravy. Uh, and it's, um, If you're ever

468
00:22:59,475 --> 00:23:01,655
Speaker 1: in that part of the country, the panhandle of Texas,

469
00:23:01,675 --> 00:23:03,615
Speaker 1: this should be your go-to.

470
00:23:03,655 --> 00:23:06,105
Speaker 2: Have you ever been to Babe's Fried Chicken in Texas? No,

471
00:23:06,135 --> 00:23:08,065
Speaker 2: I never have. Oh, that's the best fried chicken you'll

472
00:23:08,104 --> 00:23:11,725
Speaker 2: ever have. I'd probably have my grandmother's meal. She was

473
00:23:11,784 --> 00:23:14,405
Speaker 2: from Arkansas, and I lived with her for a time,

474
00:23:14,484 --> 00:23:18,385
Speaker 2: and she would make fried chicken, collard greens, black-eyed peas,

475
00:23:18,564 --> 00:23:21,284
Speaker 2: and the best biscuits you've ever had. But here's a

476
00:23:21,405 --> 00:23:23,705
Speaker 2: weird guilty pleasure. I just had it the other day.

477
00:23:24,125 --> 00:23:26,904
Speaker 2: Taco Bell. Nobody I know wants to go with me

478
00:23:26,945 --> 00:23:30,304
Speaker 2: to Taco Bell. They have something called the Enchirito. And

479
00:23:30,324 --> 00:23:33,164
Speaker 2: they brought it back. And I went in because I

480
00:23:33,205 --> 00:23:34,814
Speaker 2: had to go alone. No one would go with me.

481
00:23:34,814 --> 00:23:37,474
Speaker 2: So I went and got an Enchirito, sat down all

482
00:23:37,534 --> 00:23:39,574
Speaker 2: alone at Taco Bell. It's fantastic.

483
00:23:39,794 --> 00:23:42,695
Speaker 1: So I grew up in West Texas. We didn't have

484
00:23:42,734 --> 00:23:45,514
Speaker 1: Taco Bell. We had a local fast food taco place

485
00:23:45,554 --> 00:23:46,514
Speaker 1: called Taco Villa.

486
00:23:46,875 --> 00:23:47,275
Speaker 2: Okay.

487
00:23:47,935 --> 00:23:50,695
Speaker 1: Spelled Taco Villa. I've never heard anyone pronounce it Taco Villa.

488
00:23:51,754 --> 00:23:54,134
Speaker 1: And I would say that when I go home to

489
00:23:54,175 --> 00:23:56,945
Speaker 1: see my family, I get off the airplane and I

490
00:23:56,994 --> 00:23:59,895
Speaker 1: go to Taco Villa. I spend time with my mom

491
00:23:59,935 --> 00:24:02,634
Speaker 1: and my dad and my sister and my grandmother. And

492
00:24:02,655 --> 00:24:04,234
Speaker 1: then I go to Taco Villa on my way back

493
00:24:04,254 --> 00:24:04,555
Speaker 1: to the airport.

494
00:24:04,574 --> 00:24:05,994
Speaker 2: Is it a chain or a single place?

495
00:24:06,054 --> 00:24:11,205
Speaker 1: It's a chain. I don't know. There are fewer than

496
00:24:11,205 --> 00:24:11,764
Speaker 1: 20 locations.

497
00:24:12,004 --> 00:24:15,945
Speaker 2: Yeah. So if you were... These are stupid questions, but

498
00:24:16,104 --> 00:24:19,284
Speaker 2: they are interesting too. If you're stuck in the desert island,

499
00:24:19,324 --> 00:24:22,595
Speaker 2: you can only listen to one song over and over,

500
00:24:22,734 --> 00:24:26,124
Speaker 2: maybe two or three songs. What would you pick? Oh, man.

501
00:24:28,104 --> 00:24:32,254
Speaker 1: That's tough. I mean, probably I would listen to Hotel California.

502
00:24:32,294 --> 00:24:34,155
Speaker 2: Well, you are an Eagles fan, aren't you?

503
00:24:34,175 --> 00:24:34,874
Speaker 1: Oh, through and through.

504
00:24:34,915 --> 00:24:35,595
Speaker 2: They're amazing.

505
00:24:36,675 --> 00:24:39,955
Speaker 1: You know, if I got a couple, I don't know.

506
00:24:39,975 --> 00:24:43,274
Speaker 1: I would probably listen to the B-side of Abbey Road,

507
00:24:43,314 --> 00:24:44,174
Speaker 1: which is kind of one song.

508
00:24:44,195 --> 00:24:45,155
Speaker 2: So you're a Beatles fan.

509
00:24:45,244 --> 00:24:45,934
Speaker 1: Beatles fan.

510
00:24:46,115 --> 00:24:46,605
Speaker 2: I am, too.

511
00:24:46,844 --> 00:24:49,625
Speaker 1: And then I would probably, you know, I do love hymns.

512
00:24:50,344 --> 00:24:56,554
Speaker 1: I would love Come Thou Fount or... I don't know

513
00:24:56,594 --> 00:24:58,895
Speaker 1: how great there are songs that lift the spirit.

514
00:24:58,915 --> 00:25:01,024
Speaker 2: I could be stuck on your desert island because I

515
00:25:01,044 --> 00:25:04,105
Speaker 2: like all that music. There's one classical piece. I'm not

516
00:25:04,145 --> 00:25:07,504
Speaker 2: a big, I don't have a deep knowledge of classical music.

517
00:25:07,564 --> 00:25:09,705
Speaker 2: I just say, oh, I like that song. But Claire

518
00:25:09,725 --> 00:25:12,455
Speaker 2: de Lune, you know, is powerful. There's something about it

519
00:25:12,554 --> 00:25:14,675
Speaker 2: that when I hear it, I thought I could listen

520
00:25:14,715 --> 00:25:18,274
Speaker 2: to that over and over. Everything the Beatles did, I love.

521
00:25:18,455 --> 00:25:18,915
Speaker 1: For sure.

522
00:25:18,975 --> 00:25:21,484
Speaker 2: You couldn't ask me a question about the Beatles. I

523
00:25:21,524 --> 00:25:24,205
Speaker 2: would not have an answer to. That's a big challenge,

524
00:25:24,225 --> 00:25:24,844
Speaker 2: but I'd stand by it.

525
00:25:24,885 --> 00:25:25,744
Speaker 1: That's a big challenge.

526
00:25:25,764 --> 00:25:28,925
Speaker 2: Okay. You can see anything. I can't. Try me.

527
00:25:29,344 --> 00:25:31,124
Speaker 1: Like two seconds of a song, you know it. You're that.

528
00:25:31,145 --> 00:25:32,385
Speaker 2: I can do that really well.

529
00:25:32,405 --> 00:25:32,864
Speaker 1: You're that deep.

530
00:25:33,185 --> 00:25:33,445
Speaker 2: Yeah.

531
00:25:33,544 --> 00:25:35,364
Speaker 1: I go through phases, you know, like sometimes it's the

532
00:25:35,405 --> 00:25:38,064
Speaker 1: B-side of Abbey Road and sometimes it's Revolver and sometimes

533
00:25:38,145 --> 00:25:41,034
Speaker 1: it's Rubber Soul and then you drift back to Revolver.

534
00:25:41,314 --> 00:25:45,134
Speaker 2: They're re-releasing Rubber Soul. They've remastered it. Giles Martin, the

535
00:25:45,215 --> 00:25:48,774
Speaker 2: son of George Martin, who produced the Beatles, is bringing

536
00:25:48,834 --> 00:25:51,915
Speaker 2: it back again. But I was with Rick Rubin recently.

537
00:25:52,544 --> 00:25:54,124
Speaker 2: on his podcast. You know who Rick Rubin is?

538
00:25:54,185 --> 00:25:55,234
Speaker 1: Of course, yeah, one of the greats.

539
00:25:55,254 --> 00:25:58,014
Speaker 2: You know, he's produced so many people, but also Johnny

540
00:25:58,074 --> 00:26:01,094
Speaker 2: Cash and The Later Years, which were the best recordings

541
00:26:01,175 --> 00:26:04,955
Speaker 2: of Johnny. But I asked Rick what his favorite Beatles

542
00:26:05,014 --> 00:26:08,274
Speaker 2: record was, and he said The White Album. Really? Yeah.

543
00:26:08,554 --> 00:26:11,965
Speaker 1: Well, For me, the White Album contains all this creativity,

544
00:26:12,445 --> 00:26:14,905
Speaker 1: but I don't love it. But then it also contains

545
00:26:14,965 --> 00:26:18,324
Speaker 1: these moments like I Will. I mean, there's some songs

546
00:26:18,385 --> 00:26:20,085
Speaker 1: on the White Album that are as good as anything

547
00:26:20,104 --> 00:26:20,754
Speaker 1: they ever did.

548
00:26:20,774 --> 00:26:21,225
Speaker 2: That's true.

549
00:26:21,254 --> 00:26:23,355
Speaker 1: But you have to get through like Revolution No. 9

550
00:26:23,354 --> 00:26:25,314
Speaker 1: to get to it, which sometimes is a little work.

551
00:26:25,354 --> 00:26:28,455
Speaker 2: Revolution No. 9. One of the worst songs ever recorded.

552
00:26:28,955 --> 00:26:33,394
Speaker 2: My favorite was Revolver. And Rubber Souls at Close Runner Up.

553
00:26:34,254 --> 00:26:37,154
Speaker 2: And Revolver, because that was a transition of the Beatles

554
00:26:37,334 --> 00:26:41,535
Speaker 2: from kind of the pop Beatles to the more experimental Beatles.

555
00:26:41,754 --> 00:26:46,934
Speaker 2: Eleanor Rigby, Taxman, Here, There and Everywhere, which is one

556
00:26:46,955 --> 00:26:48,715
Speaker 2: of the greatest of their songs. I agree.

557
00:26:48,734 --> 00:26:52,195
Speaker 1: Top 10 Beatles song, 100 percent. Here, There and Everywhere

558
00:26:52,294 --> 00:26:56,244
Speaker 1: is here. So I have this because I'm too young

559
00:26:56,264 --> 00:26:56,715
Speaker 1: for the Beatles.

560
00:26:56,764 --> 00:26:56,915
Speaker 2: Right.

561
00:26:56,955 --> 00:27:01,725
Speaker 1: That was the Beatles broke up in the 60s. I

562
00:27:01,754 --> 00:27:04,514
Speaker 1: was born in 1979. So like, I'm too young for

563
00:27:04,534 --> 00:27:05,975
Speaker 1: the Eagles, but I'm definitely too young for the Beatles.

564
00:27:06,094 --> 00:27:08,694
Speaker 1: I discovered them as a teenager in the song that

565
00:27:08,754 --> 00:27:10,854
Speaker 1: brought me to the Beatles. I had heard some Beatles

566
00:27:10,895 --> 00:27:14,035
Speaker 1: and it hadn't resonated. And then I heard A Day

567
00:27:14,074 --> 00:27:14,534
Speaker 1: in the Life.

568
00:27:14,875 --> 00:27:16,475
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great song. Sergeant Cooper.

569
00:27:16,494 --> 00:27:20,634
Speaker 1: And it just, I couldn't believe, and God gave me

570
00:27:20,675 --> 00:27:22,824
Speaker 1: a kind of gift where the Beatles are concerned. I

571
00:27:23,084 --> 00:27:26,924
Speaker 1: suspect that it has broader application in my life. I've

572
00:27:26,945 --> 00:27:28,554
Speaker 1: never really thought this through. And now that I'm saying it,

573
00:27:28,564 --> 00:27:31,214
Speaker 1: I'm realizing there are these other applications, but. I was

574
00:27:31,294 --> 00:27:34,674
Speaker 1: able to listen to the Beatles and for some reason

575
00:27:35,254 --> 00:27:37,175
Speaker 1: hear them in the context of their time.

576
00:27:37,655 --> 00:27:37,875
Speaker 2: Yeah.

577
00:27:38,655 --> 00:27:40,615
Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense in any way, but I can

578
00:27:40,695 --> 00:27:45,384
Speaker 1: listen to the Beatles. I can listen to Revolver and

579
00:27:45,725 --> 00:27:48,324
Speaker 1: feel the change that was happening with the band and

580
00:27:48,344 --> 00:27:49,945
Speaker 1: the change that was happening in the world at the

581
00:27:49,984 --> 00:27:52,484
Speaker 1: time that they were both leading and reflecting.

582
00:27:52,504 --> 00:27:52,685
Speaker 2: Yeah.

583
00:27:55,984 --> 00:27:58,084
Speaker 1: For some reason that gave me this ability to relate

584
00:27:58,125 --> 00:28:00,624
Speaker 1: to that music beyond just what it would mean to

585
00:28:00,685 --> 00:28:03,324
Speaker 1: me now. Because sometimes the Beatles, you know, some of

586
00:28:03,365 --> 00:28:05,764
Speaker 1: the Beatles is a little silly, but it never sounds

587
00:28:05,804 --> 00:28:08,225
Speaker 1: silly to me because I always hear it sort of

588
00:28:08,344 --> 00:28:09,925
Speaker 1: in a time that I never got to experience. It

589
00:28:09,965 --> 00:28:12,555
Speaker 1: really transcends for me in that way.

590
00:28:12,895 --> 00:28:15,014
Speaker 2: It was sort of the soundtrack of my life because

591
00:28:15,554 --> 00:28:18,315
Speaker 2: I really discovered music hearing I Want to Hold Your

592
00:28:18,354 --> 00:28:20,554
Speaker 2: Hand when they first came out in the Ed Sullivan show.

593
00:28:21,294 --> 00:28:24,314
Speaker 2: And I came to Christ right after, right as they

594
00:28:24,334 --> 00:28:27,345
Speaker 2: were breaking up. And, you know, I was 17 years old.

595
00:28:27,405 --> 00:28:30,865
Speaker 2: I kind of followed their example. They were Pied Pipers.

596
00:28:31,264 --> 00:28:31,425
Speaker 1: Yeah.

597
00:28:31,564 --> 00:28:33,885
Speaker 2: You know, to a certain degree, I'd love to turn

598
00:28:33,925 --> 00:28:36,564
Speaker 2: you on. They went from, I want to hold your

599
00:28:36,604 --> 00:28:38,785
Speaker 2: hand to, I want to love to turn you on,

600
00:28:39,185 --> 00:28:44,815
Speaker 2: you know, and we believed it. But when Paul McCartney

601
00:28:44,965 --> 00:28:47,495
Speaker 2: wrote the song, The Long and Winding Road, I kind

602
00:28:47,535 --> 00:28:50,695
Speaker 2: of thought, well, that's like my life. I was only 17,

603
00:28:50,695 --> 00:28:52,655
Speaker 2: but I felt like I was so much older because

604
00:28:52,735 --> 00:28:56,275
Speaker 2: I'd experience so much, most of it not good. And

605
00:28:56,315 --> 00:28:58,394
Speaker 2: I thought, it's like a long and winding road. And

606
00:28:58,415 --> 00:29:02,235
Speaker 2: then he's saying, let it be. And I, Mother Mary,

607
00:29:02,315 --> 00:29:04,465
Speaker 2: and I thought he meant Mary, the mother of Jesus.

608
00:29:05,005 --> 00:29:07,265
Speaker 2: And I didn't even know what that meant. I just

609
00:29:07,325 --> 00:29:09,584
Speaker 2: knew that the mother of Jesus was named Mary. I

610
00:29:09,625 --> 00:29:11,885
Speaker 2: had no knowledge of the scripture. Of course, he was

611
00:29:11,965 --> 00:29:14,755
Speaker 2: actually thinking about, he was singing about his real mother, Mary,

612
00:29:15,104 --> 00:29:18,855
Speaker 2: who had died of cancer. But, you know, it kind

613
00:29:18,895 --> 00:29:22,855
Speaker 2: of was waking me up. and to my need for Christ.

614
00:29:23,015 --> 00:29:25,955
Speaker 2: And I saw the Ben-Hur movie, and I was deeply

615
00:29:26,035 --> 00:29:28,765
Speaker 2: moved by that scene. And there came a moment where

616
00:29:28,785 --> 00:29:34,864
Speaker 2: I just connected cinematic Jesus, historical Jesus, to living, real

617
00:29:35,125 --> 00:29:38,275
Speaker 2: Jesus who could come into my life. And that's where

618
00:29:38,295 --> 00:29:40,414
Speaker 2: conversion took place.

619
00:29:40,655 --> 00:29:41,835
Speaker 1: Through entertainment.

620
00:29:42,215 --> 00:29:44,355
Speaker 2: Well, God used it to open my heart up because

621
00:29:44,395 --> 00:29:48,124
Speaker 2: that's how I reasoned. I wasn't raised in the church.

622
00:29:48,185 --> 00:29:50,845
Speaker 2: I had no knowledge of the Bible. I had no

623
00:29:50,945 --> 00:29:54,425
Speaker 2: father growing up. My mother was pretty much gone for

624
00:29:54,465 --> 00:29:58,175
Speaker 2: the most part. So I was just alone. And I

625
00:29:58,495 --> 00:30:03,765
Speaker 2: was looking and searching. And it's almost like And I

626
00:30:03,805 --> 00:30:05,624
Speaker 2: can't think of a time when someone ever just sat

627
00:30:05,645 --> 00:30:07,805
Speaker 2: me down and said, Greg, has anyone ever shared the

628
00:30:07,825 --> 00:30:11,424
Speaker 2: gospel with you? But I was interested in it, but

629
00:30:11,465 --> 00:30:14,555
Speaker 2: I didn't know how to— like, I would see Christians handing

630
00:30:14,615 --> 00:30:18,355
Speaker 2: out religious literature, and I would hang out in Newport

631
00:30:18,415 --> 00:30:21,515
Speaker 2: Beach at a place called the Fun Zone, and they

632
00:30:21,535 --> 00:30:23,555
Speaker 2: would walk up to me, and they wouldn't engage me.

633
00:30:23,575 --> 00:30:25,334
Speaker 2: They'd talk to other people that just look at me.

634
00:30:25,375 --> 00:30:27,715
Speaker 2: I think they bought the cynical look I had in

635
00:30:27,735 --> 00:30:30,404
Speaker 2: my face. They'd give me a little booklet, and I'd

636
00:30:30,465 --> 00:30:32,685
Speaker 2: take it like I didn't care, shove it in my pocket.

637
00:30:33,265 --> 00:30:35,625
Speaker 2: And I went home and put all these little religious

638
00:30:35,705 --> 00:30:38,664
Speaker 2: booklets I was given by everybody and their mother in

639
00:30:38,685 --> 00:30:40,995
Speaker 2: a big drawer. And every now and then, I'd take

640
00:30:41,055 --> 00:30:43,374
Speaker 2: the drawer out and empty it on my bed and

641
00:30:43,415 --> 00:30:46,134
Speaker 2: try to figure it out. I wanted to know God,

642
00:30:46,375 --> 00:30:48,695
Speaker 2: and I didn't know how. I was like that guy

643
00:30:48,715 --> 00:30:51,895
Speaker 2: from Ethiopia that Philip met when he was coming back

644
00:30:51,935 --> 00:30:54,655
Speaker 2: from Jerusalem in the chariot. And he was reading from

645
00:30:54,715 --> 00:30:58,085
Speaker 2: Isaiah 53, and Philip said, Do you understand what you're reading?

646
00:30:58,705 --> 00:31:02,255
Speaker 2: And he didn't. until Philip explained it. And so I

647
00:31:02,315 --> 00:31:05,594
Speaker 2: heard someone explain it, finally, on my high school campus,

648
00:31:06,275 --> 00:31:08,095
Speaker 2: and that's when I became a Christian. I think there's

649
00:31:08,115 --> 00:31:09,334
Speaker 2: a lot of people like that today.

650
00:31:09,834 --> 00:31:13,805
Speaker 1: Listen, culture is so powerful. And you say that Paul

651
00:31:13,825 --> 00:31:16,565
Speaker 1: McCartney was writing about his mother. You thought that he

652
00:31:16,584 --> 00:31:19,005
Speaker 1: was writing about the mother of Christ, but wasn't he

653
00:31:19,025 --> 00:31:20,084
Speaker 1: writing about the mother of Christ?

654
00:31:20,185 --> 00:31:21,265
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure.

655
00:31:22,525 --> 00:31:25,865
Speaker 1: An artist is a vessel. And Paul McCartney is actually

656
00:31:25,905 --> 00:31:29,015
Speaker 1: a great voice for this sort of idea. When he

657
00:31:29,055 --> 00:31:31,635
Speaker 1: talks about his songwriting process, he says that it's like

658
00:31:31,675 --> 00:31:34,515
Speaker 1: he plucks them out. He, they come, he plucks them

659
00:31:34,594 --> 00:31:36,315
Speaker 1: out of, from a different place. He doesn't know where

660
00:31:36,334 --> 00:31:39,374
Speaker 1: they come from. And that's what I mean when I

661
00:31:39,415 --> 00:31:42,515
Speaker 1: say that we're sort of co-creators with, with God, not

662
00:31:42,555 --> 00:31:45,295
Speaker 1: that God needs us, but that he uses us and

663
00:31:45,315 --> 00:31:49,955
Speaker 1: he uses us to continue the work. Uh, and some

664
00:31:50,005 --> 00:31:55,045
Speaker 1: of us in our best moments in faith, uh, are

665
00:31:56,225 --> 00:32:00,265
Speaker 1: consciously opening ourselves up to being used by God. But

666
00:32:00,305 --> 00:32:02,305
Speaker 1: he doesn't wait for you to do that. He uses

667
00:32:02,344 --> 00:32:06,125
Speaker 1: Paul McCartney and he uses Charlton Heston and he uses,

668
00:32:06,145 --> 00:32:09,225
Speaker 1: I mean, he uses, he uses, and part of what's

669
00:32:09,305 --> 00:32:12,205
Speaker 1: beautiful about art is how it finds its way. It

670
00:32:12,285 --> 00:32:14,664
Speaker 1: goes out into the world and it finds its way

671
00:32:14,705 --> 00:32:16,685
Speaker 1: and it reaches people that you could never, as a,

672
00:32:17,065 --> 00:32:19,344
Speaker 1: as a creative, you could never anticipate. One of my

673
00:32:19,385 --> 00:32:22,384
Speaker 1: favorite stories, and it's not my story, but I'll tell it.

674
00:32:22,815 --> 00:32:26,955
Speaker 1: I made a film with some friends in 2005 called Spiral.

675
00:32:28,235 --> 00:32:31,015
Speaker 1: The first thing that I ever produced at that level.

676
00:32:31,854 --> 00:32:34,495
Speaker 1: And my childhood best friend, who I told you about,

677
00:32:34,535 --> 00:32:36,834
Speaker 1: his parents sort of ran the local entertainment industry, and

678
00:32:37,655 --> 00:32:42,025
Speaker 1: he was a virtuosic musician. First saxophonist, and then ultimately

679
00:32:43,125 --> 00:32:46,785
Speaker 1: an organist, Hammond B3. In fact, he toured with Crosby, Stills,

680
00:32:46,844 --> 00:32:48,245
Speaker 1: Nash for the last decade of their.

681
00:32:48,745 --> 00:32:49,705
Speaker 2: Love the Hammond B3.

682
00:32:49,785 --> 00:32:53,275
Speaker 1: Of their run. And... I reached out to Todd and said, hey,

683
00:32:53,735 --> 00:32:57,485
Speaker 1: I need a score for this movie. But I don't

684
00:32:57,505 --> 00:32:59,725
Speaker 1: want like a classical orchestral score. It's not that kind

685
00:32:59,765 --> 00:33:01,565
Speaker 1: of movie. I really think that we should have a

686
00:33:01,584 --> 00:33:04,725
Speaker 1: jazz score for this movie. And Todd said, yeah, let

687
00:33:04,745 --> 00:33:06,265
Speaker 1: me go to town. And he did. And he produced

688
00:33:06,285 --> 00:33:11,124
Speaker 1: this unbelievable original jazz soundtrack. Our little movie comes out

689
00:33:11,165 --> 00:33:14,104
Speaker 1: and it premiered at the Santa Barbara Film Festival and

690
00:33:14,125 --> 00:33:17,545
Speaker 1: it got picked up by Anchor Bay. And, you know,

691
00:33:17,825 --> 00:33:19,584
Speaker 1: back at the very end of DVDs, you could go

692
00:33:19,604 --> 00:33:22,265
Speaker 1: to Walmart and get it on DVD. And, you know,

693
00:33:22,625 --> 00:33:23,844
Speaker 1: it went out into the world and it did whatever

694
00:33:23,865 --> 00:33:25,144
Speaker 1: it was going to do, but it didn't change my

695
00:33:25,205 --> 00:33:26,985
Speaker 1: life or anyone's life who was a part of it.

696
00:33:28,405 --> 00:33:32,584
Speaker 1: Years later, Todd lives in New York and he hears

697
00:33:32,625 --> 00:33:35,485
Speaker 1: that Wayne Shorter, who's the famous saxophone player from weather report.

698
00:33:35,645 --> 00:33:35,855
Speaker 2: Right.

699
00:33:36,125 --> 00:33:41,315
Speaker 1: And as is one of the great living people from

700
00:33:41,334 --> 00:33:44,565
Speaker 1: the jazz, you know, from American jazz, like he's, he's a,

701
00:33:45,094 --> 00:33:47,114
Speaker 1: he's probably in his eighties at this time. And, but

702
00:33:47,135 --> 00:33:49,795
Speaker 1: he's a, he's still a complete monster and he's playing

703
00:33:49,815 --> 00:33:54,515
Speaker 1: in Philadelphia. Yeah. And Todd, very excited. He gets on

704
00:33:54,535 --> 00:33:56,995
Speaker 1: the internet. He gets the very last ticket. It's on

705
00:33:57,035 --> 00:33:59,505
Speaker 1: a college campus, I believe in Philadelphia. And he gets

706
00:33:59,545 --> 00:34:02,985
Speaker 1: a ticket on a train, trains down to Philadelphia. He's

707
00:34:03,025 --> 00:34:06,084
Speaker 1: sitting in the furthest back of the auditorium in the

708
00:34:06,125 --> 00:34:09,424
Speaker 1: last seat up top. And he's listening to Wayne Shorter.

709
00:34:09,445 --> 00:34:13,025
Speaker 1: And Wayne Shorter's playing this like experimental jazz. Todd's in

710
00:34:13,045 --> 00:34:14,895
Speaker 1: the prime of his musical life and his mind is

711
00:34:14,915 --> 00:34:16,975
Speaker 1: being blown by the things this 80-year-old guy's up there

712
00:34:16,995 --> 00:34:19,715
Speaker 1: playing on the saxophone. He's just in outer space, can't

713
00:34:19,735 --> 00:34:23,515
Speaker 1: believe it. And then because Wayne will play like these

714
00:34:23,515 --> 00:34:27,055
Speaker 1: 18 minute songs and then he's completely gassed because he's

715
00:34:27,055 --> 00:34:30,305
Speaker 1: 80 years old. So he'll take five minutes to recover

716
00:34:30,345 --> 00:34:32,265
Speaker 1: between songs and he'll just chit chat with the audience.

717
00:34:33,085 --> 00:34:34,825
Speaker 1: So you're between these two songs. He starts chit chatting

718
00:34:34,845 --> 00:34:39,085
Speaker 1: with the audience and he says, you know, never understood

719
00:34:39,125 --> 00:34:42,085
Speaker 1: why they don't use more jazz and Hollywood movies. Jazz

720
00:34:42,145 --> 00:34:43,965
Speaker 1: is the music of the soul. Jazz is the music

721
00:34:43,985 --> 00:34:46,815
Speaker 1: of the spirit. You know, jazz communicates more than any

722
00:34:46,855 --> 00:34:48,935
Speaker 1: other form of music and they never embraced it. They never,

723
00:34:49,885 --> 00:34:51,985
Speaker 1: Sometimes you'll see a taxi driver, of course, it's a

724
00:34:52,185 --> 00:34:54,265
Speaker 1: great jazz score. Just the other day, we were on

725
00:34:54,285 --> 00:34:56,815
Speaker 1: the bus. Boys, what was that movie? What was that

726
00:34:56,855 --> 00:34:59,555
Speaker 1: movie about that painter kid? Spiral, spiral. We were listening

727
00:34:59,575 --> 00:35:01,795
Speaker 1: to this movie, Spiral. Best jazz score I've ever heard

728
00:35:01,815 --> 00:35:05,535
Speaker 1: in my life. Todd wrote every song in that movie,

729
00:35:05,575 --> 00:35:08,235
Speaker 1: and he's sitting in the nosebleeds at this point, listening

730
00:35:08,275 --> 00:35:12,215
Speaker 1: to his hero tell him that he was moved by

731
00:35:12,315 --> 00:35:15,215
Speaker 1: his music. This movie, that as far as we knew,

732
00:35:15,955 --> 00:35:18,175
Speaker 1: you know, 20 guys at Walmart had bought copies of

733
00:35:18,195 --> 00:35:19,575
Speaker 1: this thing over the years and seen it. And here

734
00:35:19,595 --> 00:35:21,875
Speaker 1: we are all there here. Todd is all these years later.

735
00:35:22,395 --> 00:35:23,475
Speaker 1: That's what art does.

736
00:35:23,645 --> 00:35:23,875
Speaker 2: Yeah.

737
00:35:24,145 --> 00:35:26,705
Speaker 1: That's what entertainment does. It goes out and finds people

738
00:35:27,125 --> 00:35:30,105
Speaker 1: and who knows what impact it has. That's in God's hands. Right.

739
00:35:30,505 --> 00:35:32,945
Speaker 1: So can you imagine getting a chance to talk to

740
00:35:33,965 --> 00:35:37,205
Speaker 1: Paul McCartney and talk about how his music helped lead

741
00:35:37,245 --> 00:35:39,805
Speaker 1: you to Christ? His mind would be blown. His music

742
00:35:39,845 --> 00:35:41,975
Speaker 1: didn't lead him to Christ or hasn't yet. Right.

743
00:35:42,175 --> 00:35:42,355
Speaker 2: Right.

744
00:35:42,395 --> 00:35:45,305
Speaker 1: But here it's, That's the power. And that's why conservatives

745
00:35:45,365 --> 00:35:49,985
Speaker 1: cannot abandon the most important tools that have ever existed.

746
00:35:50,045 --> 00:35:53,145
Speaker 1: Christians can't abandon the most important tools that have ever

747
00:35:53,225 --> 00:35:56,065
Speaker 1: existed for changing the hearts of men, for shaping the

748
00:35:56,085 --> 00:35:58,945
Speaker 1: character of men, shaping the thoughts of men. I think

749
00:35:58,985 --> 00:36:01,745
Speaker 1: it's understandable why we're not the ones who lean forward,

750
00:36:01,785 --> 00:36:08,015
Speaker 1: why those are more naturally expressions of the left. But

751
00:36:08,035 --> 00:36:10,285
Speaker 1: that doesn't make it any less of a rebuke. Just

752
00:36:10,305 --> 00:36:11,865
Speaker 1: means we have to do the thing that's harder for

753
00:36:11,925 --> 00:36:12,305
Speaker 1: us to do.

754
00:36:12,625 --> 00:36:15,305
Speaker 2: Excellent. So let me ask you this question in closing, Jeremy.

755
00:36:15,965 --> 00:36:18,845
Speaker 2: Tell me about the key that you always wear. And

756
00:36:18,905 --> 00:36:21,525
Speaker 2: it's a bent key. I just noticed because I've only

757
00:36:21,565 --> 00:36:24,245
Speaker 2: seen it on video. So now seeing it in person,

758
00:36:24,725 --> 00:36:28,075
Speaker 2: it's a bent key, people. So tell me about that key.

759
00:36:28,855 --> 00:36:30,855
Speaker 1: I've had this key around my neck for 31 years.

760
00:36:30,975 --> 00:36:31,275
Speaker 2: Wow.

761
00:36:32,335 --> 00:36:35,715
Speaker 1: It is the key to the Garza Theater in Post, Texas,

762
00:36:36,735 --> 00:36:39,915
Speaker 1: which is a town founded by the serial magnate C.W. Post.

763
00:36:40,625 --> 00:36:47,525
Speaker 1: as a sort of experimental community. There are people who

764
00:36:47,545 --> 00:36:49,745
Speaker 1: will debate what I'm about to tell you. It is

765
00:36:49,805 --> 00:36:52,045
Speaker 1: right off the cap, what we call the cap rock,

766
00:36:53,005 --> 00:36:56,765
Speaker 1: coming off of the Ano Estacado. Now, purists will say

767
00:36:56,785 --> 00:36:58,875
Speaker 1: that that isn't true, that it is still technically a

768
00:36:58,915 --> 00:37:02,194
Speaker 1: part of the Ano Estacado, but I think that that's

769
00:37:02,275 --> 00:37:06,895
Speaker 1: a silly geological distinction. And there was a silent movie

770
00:37:06,915 --> 00:37:12,125
Speaker 1: theater built in 1898 in town, which was refurbished in

771
00:37:12,205 --> 00:37:17,955
Speaker 1: the 90s to be a playhouse. Late 80s or early 90s.

772
00:37:19,425 --> 00:37:23,075
Speaker 1: And I attended a play there when I was 13.

773
00:37:23,075 --> 00:37:30,595
Speaker 1: And this woman, this kind of maniac, Jane Prince Jones,

774
00:37:30,655 --> 00:37:34,745
Speaker 1: like a tornado hit. She was the first female newscaster

775
00:37:34,765 --> 00:37:37,545
Speaker 1: in Lubbock, Texas. She was the first female morning show host,

776
00:37:37,585 --> 00:37:40,605
Speaker 1: disc jockey in West Texas. So she was a larger

777
00:37:40,645 --> 00:37:42,675
Speaker 1: than life figure in that part of the world. And

778
00:37:42,695 --> 00:37:45,055
Speaker 1: this tornado, she directed the play and ran the theater.

779
00:37:45,075 --> 00:37:47,475
Speaker 1: She comes, you know, like the Tasmanian devil, you know,

780
00:37:47,495 --> 00:37:51,155
Speaker 1: kind of spins out of the place and so much

781
00:37:51,195 --> 00:37:54,295
Speaker 1: energy and so, you know, scattered thoughts and fixing this

782
00:37:54,335 --> 00:37:57,595
Speaker 1: problem and addressing these people and greeting this person. And

783
00:37:57,635 --> 00:38:00,645
Speaker 1: my father, who had taken me to see the play,

784
00:38:01,765 --> 00:38:04,165
Speaker 1: stopped her and he said, Miss Jones, I want to

785
00:38:04,245 --> 00:38:07,705
Speaker 1: introduce you to my son. And I was kind of confused.

786
00:38:07,745 --> 00:38:09,915
Speaker 1: I thought he must have met her before, but he hadn't.

787
00:38:09,995 --> 00:38:14,875
Speaker 1: You know, he was just being forward because he knew

788
00:38:14,895 --> 00:38:16,495
Speaker 1: that I would be interested because I had really been

789
00:38:16,515 --> 00:38:21,185
Speaker 1: taken by the experience. And she said, would you ever

790
00:38:21,225 --> 00:38:22,085
Speaker 1: want to work on a play?

791
00:38:22,585 --> 00:38:22,805
Speaker 2: Yes.

792
00:38:23,785 --> 00:38:25,665
Speaker 1: What's your phone number? I gave her my phone. It

793
00:38:25,705 --> 00:38:28,425
Speaker 1: was a home phone, of course, at the time. I

794
00:38:28,465 --> 00:38:30,385
Speaker 1: gave her the phone number. I don't have any memory

795
00:38:30,405 --> 00:38:32,645
Speaker 1: that she even wrote it down. She says, would you

796
00:38:32,665 --> 00:38:34,785
Speaker 1: ever be interested in doing a play? Yes, ma'am. What's

797
00:38:34,805 --> 00:38:38,185
Speaker 1: your phone number? Okay. And then in a way she

798
00:38:38,205 --> 00:38:40,275
Speaker 1: was to the next, whatever the next crisis was, the

799
00:38:40,315 --> 00:38:41,595
Speaker 1: next fire that needed to be put out, you know.

800
00:38:42,675 --> 00:38:44,215
Speaker 1: And wouldn't you know it if like six weeks later

801
00:38:45,415 --> 00:38:47,635
Speaker 1: there's a message on the answering machine at home and

802
00:38:47,655 --> 00:38:49,395
Speaker 1: it was Jane Prince Jones asking if I wanted to

803
00:38:49,515 --> 00:38:52,535
Speaker 1: come and do lights on The Odd Couple at the

804
00:38:52,555 --> 00:38:56,125
Speaker 1: Garza Theater. And so I started going down and doing

805
00:38:56,185 --> 00:38:59,205
Speaker 1: plays down in post. I lived in a little town

806
00:38:59,225 --> 00:39:02,015
Speaker 1: halfway between Lubbock and and post called Slate in Texas.

807
00:39:03,075 --> 00:39:05,525
Speaker 1: Jane would pick me up on the way and take

808
00:39:05,545 --> 00:39:08,245
Speaker 1: me down to the theater and teach me how to

809
00:39:08,285 --> 00:39:11,025
Speaker 1: do lights or teach me how to act or give

810
00:39:11,045 --> 00:39:13,185
Speaker 1: me opportunity. Over the years, it turned into all those

811
00:39:13,225 --> 00:39:21,195
Speaker 1: great opportunities, writing and directing. I believe in 1995, when

812
00:39:21,235 --> 00:39:23,515
Speaker 1: I was 15, she gave me a key to the

813
00:39:23,535 --> 00:39:25,615
Speaker 1: theater because it had become sort of my job to

814
00:39:26,675 --> 00:39:28,295
Speaker 1: be the last one out, to turn off the lights

815
00:39:28,855 --> 00:39:31,185
Speaker 1: and then to lock the door So, but I would

816
00:39:31,205 --> 00:39:32,985
Speaker 1: just always take her keys and I would go in

817
00:39:33,025 --> 00:39:34,475
Speaker 1: and she had a little flashlight and you'd turn off

818
00:39:34,495 --> 00:39:36,905
Speaker 1: the lights and find your way out and lock the

819
00:39:36,945 --> 00:39:38,805
Speaker 1: door and at some point I think she got tired

820
00:39:38,845 --> 00:39:40,685
Speaker 1: of giving me her keys so she gave me a

821
00:39:40,705 --> 00:39:44,025
Speaker 1: key to the theater and it was my first adult

822
00:39:45,045 --> 00:39:49,325
Speaker 1: responsibility you know I was being entrusted with this this

823
00:39:49,385 --> 00:39:53,685
Speaker 1: access to the theater and and so it was obviously

824
00:39:53,705 --> 00:39:56,685
Speaker 1: a very important moment to me and and The whole

825
00:39:56,725 --> 00:39:58,885
Speaker 1: experience down there was sort of being treated like an adult.

826
00:39:58,925 --> 00:40:01,145
Speaker 1: Even when I was 13, 14, 15, you know, people

827
00:40:01,165 --> 00:40:03,635
Speaker 1: would give me responsibility and depend on me. And if

828
00:40:03,675 --> 00:40:05,675
Speaker 1: you screwed up, it screwed up the show and ruined

829
00:40:06,595 --> 00:40:09,095
Speaker 1: the audience's experience. You know, so it taught me to

830
00:40:09,115 --> 00:40:11,955
Speaker 1: think about the audience and think about the impact that

831
00:40:11,975 --> 00:40:13,935
Speaker 1: we could have on how people felt. You can make

832
00:40:13,975 --> 00:40:17,435
Speaker 1: people laugh. What an amazing thing to experience that you

833
00:40:17,475 --> 00:40:20,375
Speaker 1: can do something on a stage that changes someone's attitude

834
00:40:20,435 --> 00:40:25,685
Speaker 1: or changes their perspective. And one day the key bent

835
00:40:25,725 --> 00:40:29,685
Speaker 1: in the lock. which is a story for another podcast

836
00:40:29,725 --> 00:40:36,085
Speaker 1: at another time, but was also a hugely spiritually formative experience.

837
00:40:36,245 --> 00:40:40,855
Speaker 1: But part of that formative spiritual experience is that the

838
00:40:40,895 --> 00:40:46,755
Speaker 1: key bent in the lock. And I was disappointed by that,

839
00:40:46,775 --> 00:40:49,415
Speaker 1: and I threw the key on my dresser, and I

840
00:40:49,455 --> 00:40:52,285
Speaker 1: woke up the next morning and thought, The key still

841
00:40:52,365 --> 00:40:54,245
Speaker 1: represents whatever it represented to me. I don't want to

842
00:40:54,265 --> 00:40:55,745
Speaker 1: really be parted from it. Of course, they just gave

843
00:40:55,765 --> 00:40:59,275
Speaker 1: me another key the next day. But I pulled a

844
00:40:59,355 --> 00:41:01,855
Speaker 1: lace out of my boot, put the lace through the key,

845
00:41:01,915 --> 00:41:04,694
Speaker 1: and put it around my neck. And 31 years later,

846
00:41:04,755 --> 00:41:05,995
Speaker 1: it's still hanging there.

847
00:41:06,015 --> 00:41:07,215
Speaker 2: So it means something to you.

848
00:41:07,555 --> 00:41:07,835
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.

849
00:41:08,215 --> 00:41:08,995
Speaker 2: And what does it mean?

850
00:41:09,615 --> 00:41:12,395
Speaker 1: Well, you know, over time, it's come to mean different things.

851
00:41:12,435 --> 00:41:12,835
Speaker 2: Yes.

852
00:41:12,875 --> 00:41:15,435
Speaker 1: What does it mean now? I think the key used

853
00:41:15,455 --> 00:41:17,365
Speaker 1: to mean something to me, and now it means something

854
00:41:17,405 --> 00:41:19,105
Speaker 1: about me. And I still haven't worked that out yet.

855
00:41:19,125 --> 00:41:19,305
Speaker 2: Okay.

856
00:41:19,935 --> 00:41:21,175
Speaker 1: I mean, one thing it means I'm not one to

857
00:41:21,215 --> 00:41:22,815
Speaker 1: quit on a piece of jewelry just because it has

858
00:41:22,835 --> 00:41:28,495
Speaker 1: a little wear. But it represented to me that season

859
00:41:28,535 --> 00:41:33,235
Speaker 1: of life in which I was invested in so much

860
00:41:33,255 --> 00:41:37,245
Speaker 1: by that group of adults who had such a profound

861
00:41:37,575 --> 00:41:39,525
Speaker 1: impact on what the shape of my life would become.

862
00:41:40,605 --> 00:41:44,825
Speaker 1: It represented responsibility that I had never known before that time.

863
00:41:45,645 --> 00:41:50,315
Speaker 1: It represented all the struggle. it wasn't an easy season

864
00:41:50,355 --> 00:41:52,995
Speaker 1: to go down there and learn those things and be

865
00:41:53,135 --> 00:41:55,075
Speaker 1: with adults more than I was with people my age

866
00:41:55,165 --> 00:41:59,285
Speaker 1: and have to make my way. And it represented this

867
00:41:59,325 --> 00:42:02,625
Speaker 1: sort of spiritually formative series of events too that make

868
00:42:02,665 --> 00:42:06,585
Speaker 1: for a good story, but too long a story for today.

869
00:42:07,225 --> 00:42:11,375
Speaker 1: When I was wrestling with my own salvation and in

870
00:42:11,435 --> 00:42:15,655
Speaker 1: a unique set of circumstances, I think that the combination

871
00:42:15,675 --> 00:42:19,275
Speaker 1: of all of those things meant that meant that the

872
00:42:19,315 --> 00:42:21,975
Speaker 1: key was something that I a wanted to hang on

873
00:42:22,035 --> 00:42:26,445
Speaker 1: to and had and felt sentimental about, but also that it,

874
00:42:27,815 --> 00:42:29,555
Speaker 1: that it was something that I would meditate on and

875
00:42:29,595 --> 00:42:32,435
Speaker 1: remind me of what I knew, even when I was

876
00:42:32,475 --> 00:42:34,635
Speaker 1: in it, even though I couldn't fully have articulated it,

877
00:42:35,115 --> 00:42:38,695
Speaker 1: articulated it at the time, what I knew were the

878
00:42:38,795 --> 00:42:41,515
Speaker 1: most important, like, this is it. These are the most

879
00:42:41,575 --> 00:42:44,415
Speaker 1: important years of my life. This is, this is going

880
00:42:44,455 --> 00:42:48,145
Speaker 1: to everything that happens after this is being determined here.

881
00:42:48,205 --> 00:42:49,185
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow.

882
00:42:49,395 --> 00:42:52,715
Speaker 1: So I haven't broken up with it yet.

883
00:42:53,015 --> 00:42:55,714
Speaker 2: Well, there's new locks you're going to unlock with that key,

884
00:42:56,015 --> 00:42:58,355
Speaker 2: you know, that are before you still. And, you know,

885
00:42:58,375 --> 00:43:01,765
Speaker 2: I know you feel, as a man, did you see

886
00:43:01,805 --> 00:43:04,185
Speaker 2: you're 49? What is your age?

887
00:43:04,185 --> 00:43:04,594
Speaker 1: 47.

888
00:43:04,595 --> 00:43:09,045
Speaker 2: 47. I remember when I was 47, I thought, wow,

889
00:43:09,065 --> 00:43:12,805
Speaker 2: I'm pretty old now. And you are old at 47,

890
00:43:12,805 --> 00:43:15,455
Speaker 2: but I'm 73 now. And I look back at it,

891
00:43:15,595 --> 00:43:19,205
Speaker 2: I was still young. And, you know, there's still many

892
00:43:19,305 --> 00:43:21,705
Speaker 2: things in your future, I'm sure, that God's going to

893
00:43:21,845 --> 00:43:24,545
Speaker 2: open up for you. And maybe that key, you know,

894
00:43:24,585 --> 00:43:28,165
Speaker 2: metaphorically speaking, is going to open some new locks. We'll see.

895
00:43:28,725 --> 00:43:30,905
Speaker 2: But I'm excited to see what God's going to do

896
00:43:30,945 --> 00:43:34,065
Speaker 2: with you, you know. And I know people ask you

897
00:43:34,105 --> 00:43:37,405
Speaker 2: a lot about what you've done, and you've accomplished incredible things,

898
00:43:38,125 --> 00:43:41,945
Speaker 2: especially for such a young man. But God's not done.

899
00:43:42,125 --> 00:43:44,265
Speaker 2: We'll see what the Lord does in your future. Real

900
00:43:44,325 --> 00:43:46,755
Speaker 2: pleasure to talk to you. Good to know you better.

901
00:43:46,775 --> 00:43:49,025
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming on my podcast.

902
00:43:49,085 --> 00:43:49,765
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me.

903
00:43:49,805 --> 00:43:50,175
Speaker 2: Thank you.