1 00:00:20,186 --> 00:00:22,246 Speaker 1: Hi, friend. I'm so glad you're here today. 2 00:00:22,606 --> 00:00:25,506 Speaker 2: Let's learn how to raise our kids to love God, 3 00:00:25,886 --> 00:00:30,276 Speaker 2: respect authority, and do what's right. Let's scroll less and 4 00:00:30,406 --> 00:00:34,396 Speaker 2: live more. I'm Arlene Pelican, and this is The Happy Home. 5 00:00:38,606 --> 00:00:40,926 Speaker 2: I have a wonderful treat for you. If any of 6 00:00:40,966 --> 00:00:43,976 Speaker 2: you have read the book Wild at Heart by John Eldredge, 7 00:00:43,995 --> 00:00:46,596 Speaker 2: that was a book that really helped me when I 8 00:00:46,656 --> 00:00:48,996 Speaker 2: was raising a son and having a husband and not 9 00:00:49,016 --> 00:00:53,436 Speaker 2: understanding why is this man so wild? We have Stacey Eldredge, 10 00:00:53,516 --> 00:00:56,115 Speaker 2: who her husband John did that book, but Stacey has 11 00:00:56,156 --> 00:01:00,866 Speaker 2: done so many books on her own, over 3 million copies. Stacey, 12 00:01:00,926 --> 00:01:02,706 Speaker 2: we are so happy to have you on the podcast. 13 00:01:02,726 --> 00:01:03,346 Speaker 2: Thanks for coming. 14 00:01:04,026 --> 00:01:06,786 Speaker 3: Thanks for having me, Arlene. I'm delighted to be with you. 15 00:01:06,806 --> 00:01:10,786 Speaker 2: Yeah, you have so many books and you have a 16 00:01:11,026 --> 00:01:14,666 Speaker 2: new one called The Ladder of Love, A Pathway to 17 00:01:14,726 --> 00:01:19,405 Speaker 2: Emotional Healing and Spiritual Intimacy with Jesus. And that's what 18 00:01:19,426 --> 00:01:21,435 Speaker 2: we're going to talk about today. How can we as 19 00:01:21,496 --> 00:01:24,356 Speaker 2: a mom, as a dad, a husband, a wife, but 20 00:01:24,456 --> 00:01:26,776 Speaker 2: more important than that, like underneath all those things, we're 21 00:01:26,795 --> 00:01:29,436 Speaker 2: a child of God. And how do we come become 22 00:01:29,496 --> 00:01:33,575 Speaker 2: more spiritually intimate with Jesus because that intimacy will then 23 00:01:33,636 --> 00:01:36,875 Speaker 2: inspire those in our household, right? To know God more. 24 00:01:37,276 --> 00:01:39,945 Speaker 2: But before we go kind of with the spiritual intimacy, 25 00:01:40,125 --> 00:01:44,875 Speaker 2: you know, you think, oh, Stacey Eldridge. They co-founded Wild 26 00:01:44,916 --> 00:01:45,515 Speaker 2: at Heart. 27 00:01:45,575 --> 00:01:46,776 Speaker 1: They've sold millions of books. 28 00:01:46,816 --> 00:01:48,916 Speaker 2: They must have a perfect life. This thing was so 29 00:01:49,076 --> 00:01:52,056 Speaker 2: easy for them. And someone who believes that would be wrong. 30 00:01:52,116 --> 00:01:53,606 Speaker 1: Am I right about that? 31 00:01:54,536 --> 00:01:55,496 Speaker 3: Yes. Yes. 32 00:01:56,026 --> 00:01:57,826 Speaker 1: Yeah. I know many of. 33 00:01:57,826 --> 00:02:00,486 Speaker 2: Our listeners think, well, that couldn't happen to me because 34 00:02:00,546 --> 00:02:03,005 Speaker 2: my background is too difficult. And the things that have 35 00:02:03,046 --> 00:02:06,146 Speaker 2: happened in my past are too great for me to 36 00:02:06,226 --> 00:02:07,505 Speaker 2: really be close to Jesus. 37 00:02:07,546 --> 00:02:11,626 Speaker 1: Can you just familiarize people with your story, where you've 38 00:02:11,666 --> 00:02:12,066 Speaker 1: come from? 39 00:02:12,856 --> 00:02:16,516 Speaker 3: Yes, Arlene, it's really true that nobody gets through this 40 00:02:16,596 --> 00:02:23,275 Speaker 3: life unscathed. And I really love how when Jesus came 41 00:02:23,356 --> 00:02:25,996 Speaker 3: on the scene and he began his earthly ministry, you 42 00:02:26,036 --> 00:02:29,386 Speaker 3: know this really well. He went into the synagogue after 43 00:02:29,416 --> 00:02:32,586 Speaker 3: he had the showdown with Satan in the wilderness, and 44 00:02:32,626 --> 00:02:35,026 Speaker 3: they had it in the scroll of Isaiah. He enrolls 45 00:02:35,085 --> 00:02:38,826 Speaker 3: it to Isaiah 61, and he announces his mission. who 46 00:02:38,846 --> 00:02:41,266 Speaker 3: he is, why he came, and he's anointed by the Lord. 47 00:02:41,286 --> 00:02:44,106 Speaker 3: And he says, I've come to heal the brokenhearted and 48 00:02:44,805 --> 00:02:49,576 Speaker 3: to set the captives free. And that is all of us, 49 00:02:50,356 --> 00:02:53,315 Speaker 3: all of us. We take wounds and we take them 50 00:02:53,356 --> 00:02:57,615 Speaker 3: throughout our entire lives. But those early ones kind of 51 00:02:57,696 --> 00:03:01,566 Speaker 3: set the stage for the way we interpret our lives. 52 00:03:01,636 --> 00:03:05,026 Speaker 3: And almost the wounds continue to come into the same place. 53 00:03:05,326 --> 00:03:07,645 Speaker 3: People will notice that they kind of hit the same place. 54 00:03:08,036 --> 00:03:11,435 Speaker 3: They have messages to them about who you are as 55 00:03:11,476 --> 00:03:13,636 Speaker 3: a person, who you're not, who you will never be. 56 00:03:13,976 --> 00:03:17,996 Speaker 3: And it's very intentional. So I am a human being 57 00:03:18,016 --> 00:03:20,895 Speaker 3: like everyone else and came into the world into a 58 00:03:21,055 --> 00:03:27,285 Speaker 3: broken family and an alcoholic father and a very overwhelmed 59 00:03:28,296 --> 00:03:34,806 Speaker 3: and unprepared, absent, present in her body, but absent in 60 00:03:34,826 --> 00:03:38,496 Speaker 3: every other way, mom. And so for me, I was 61 00:03:38,576 --> 00:03:42,376 Speaker 3: required to need nothing. I was the fourth child born 62 00:03:42,436 --> 00:03:45,816 Speaker 3: too close together. And the message to me, which was 63 00:03:45,876 --> 00:03:48,236 Speaker 3: spoken to me, was that they were devastated that I 64 00:03:48,276 --> 00:03:51,236 Speaker 3: was coming. They wept. My mom wept when she learned 65 00:03:51,256 --> 00:03:53,156 Speaker 3: she was pregnant with me. I first heard that when 66 00:03:53,196 --> 00:03:56,576 Speaker 3: I was three years old. And then it just set 67 00:03:56,636 --> 00:04:00,826 Speaker 3: the stage for feeling like, I mean, my presence caused damage. 68 00:04:02,246 --> 00:04:05,336 Speaker 3: I was a damage causer. And I also felt that 69 00:04:05,376 --> 00:04:09,946 Speaker 3: I was a deep disappointment. So my existence was because 70 00:04:10,266 --> 00:04:12,866 Speaker 3: of the way our family dynamics were, it set me 71 00:04:13,006 --> 00:04:16,846 Speaker 3: up for abuse from a trusted family member. And I 72 00:04:16,906 --> 00:04:19,326 Speaker 3: went into that as so the rest of my life 73 00:04:19,386 --> 00:04:23,386 Speaker 3: is so many people do. thinking the worst about myself. 74 00:04:23,686 --> 00:04:26,426 Speaker 3: And it, and it put me in a position where 75 00:04:26,486 --> 00:04:30,206 Speaker 3: I agreed with that, that I was nothing and not 76 00:04:30,266 --> 00:04:33,406 Speaker 3: worth anything. And it led me to, I did a, 77 00:04:33,736 --> 00:04:36,536 Speaker 3: you know, I started smoking. I was 10 and drinking 78 00:04:36,576 --> 00:04:39,436 Speaker 3: when I was 11 and drugs when I was 12. 79 00:04:39,436 --> 00:04:43,556 Speaker 3: And then when I got into college, I was really crazy, really. 80 00:04:43,616 --> 00:04:46,005 Speaker 3: I mean, my friends were drug dealers and were concerned 81 00:04:46,065 --> 00:04:50,106 Speaker 3: about me. So they, they were, they wanted to do 82 00:04:50,166 --> 00:04:57,986 Speaker 3: an intervention. You wouldn't recognize me. I lived kind of 83 00:04:58,026 --> 00:05:03,036 Speaker 3: in the underbelly of the world and darkness and did 84 00:05:03,046 --> 00:05:11,736 Speaker 3: just everything manageable, imaginatively and heartbreakingly that wounded others and 85 00:05:11,755 --> 00:05:18,236 Speaker 3: wounded myself. And Jesus rescued me. I really hit the 86 00:05:18,276 --> 00:05:20,216 Speaker 3: point of either dying. 87 00:05:21,706 --> 00:05:24,945 Speaker 1: Or literally, literally. 88 00:05:24,486 --> 00:05:29,986 Speaker 3: Or surrendering to God. And, and I chose Jesus. He 89 00:05:30,046 --> 00:05:34,186 Speaker 3: chose me. I answered the call and he came in 90 00:05:34,226 --> 00:05:37,276 Speaker 3: a minute, just in a moment. I had a Bible. Um, 91 00:05:37,356 --> 00:05:40,036 Speaker 3: I had brought it home cause John was instrumental in 92 00:05:40,056 --> 00:05:46,046 Speaker 3: bringing me to Jesus, my husband. And I, um, I 93 00:05:46,206 --> 00:05:48,426 Speaker 3: opened it up. I just opened it up and I 94 00:05:48,546 --> 00:05:51,086 Speaker 3: opened it up to Matthew 11 verse 28. All you 95 00:05:51,106 --> 00:05:52,825 Speaker 3: who are weary or have been late and come to 96 00:05:52,866 --> 00:05:54,956 Speaker 3: me and I will give you rest. And I fell 97 00:05:55,036 --> 00:05:57,096 Speaker 3: on the ground and said, I'm weary. Here I am. 98 00:05:57,236 --> 00:05:57,876 Speaker 3: And that was it. 99 00:05:58,736 --> 00:05:59,516 Speaker 1: My goodness. 100 00:05:59,536 --> 00:06:03,036 Speaker 3: I was in and I was in lock, stock and barrel. 101 00:06:03,856 --> 00:06:08,796 Speaker 3: But as you know, salvation is instant, but the healing 102 00:06:08,836 --> 00:06:13,145 Speaker 3: of our wounds isn't. Some of them Some of them immediately. 103 00:06:13,166 --> 00:06:15,325 Speaker 3: I had some addictions that he just took care of 104 00:06:15,346 --> 00:06:19,445 Speaker 3: in that moment. Others required me to walk out. And 105 00:06:19,466 --> 00:06:22,246 Speaker 3: then there's also the fact that the wounds continue to come. 106 00:06:23,336 --> 00:06:28,135 Speaker 3: So the growth, the emotional healing, the spiritual healing, the 107 00:06:28,176 --> 00:06:31,716 Speaker 3: coming to know Jesus, that's a lifetime. God is a 108 00:06:31,736 --> 00:06:34,816 Speaker 3: God of process and he's in it for the long haul. 109 00:06:36,296 --> 00:06:37,996 Speaker 1: How old were you when that was all happening? Were 110 00:06:38,036 --> 00:06:38,656 Speaker 1: you in college? 111 00:06:39,656 --> 00:06:42,736 Speaker 3: I was a senior in college and I was 21 112 00:06:42,736 --> 00:06:47,196 Speaker 3: years old and I lost all my friends. I lost 113 00:06:47,296 --> 00:06:53,455 Speaker 3: everybody I knew. I was the director of the Women's 114 00:06:53,596 --> 00:06:59,905 Speaker 3: Resource Center, San Diego State University. And I remember there. 115 00:06:59,786 --> 00:07:01,066 Speaker 1: Was, I didn't even know where to go. 116 00:07:01,266 --> 00:07:04,065 Speaker 3: How do I learn about this Christianity thing? But there 117 00:07:04,106 --> 00:07:06,505 Speaker 3: was a quad for clubs that were set up and 118 00:07:06,526 --> 00:07:09,286 Speaker 3: there was one for Campus Crusade for Christ. And it 119 00:07:09,346 --> 00:07:12,506 Speaker 3: had this sign that said, fishers of men. And I 120 00:07:12,606 --> 00:07:15,466 Speaker 3: hated that sign. I was like hardcore feminist. 121 00:07:15,926 --> 00:07:16,886 Speaker 1: Like, what about women? 122 00:07:17,486 --> 00:07:19,486 Speaker 3: But it was the only place I knew where to go. 123 00:07:19,846 --> 00:07:22,696 Speaker 3: So one day I kind of snuck up. you know, 124 00:07:22,976 --> 00:07:26,716 Speaker 3: ever so surreptitiously to this counter and said, I want 125 00:07:26,736 --> 00:07:28,316 Speaker 3: to join a Bible study. 126 00:07:28,456 --> 00:07:33,766 Speaker 1: And that is so funny. Even at the beginning, right? 127 00:07:33,786 --> 00:07:37,006 Speaker 1: It's like, this requires humility. I have to go to 128 00:07:37,046 --> 00:07:38,646 Speaker 1: the fishers of men sign. 129 00:07:39,266 --> 00:07:42,086 Speaker 3: And there was this dear woman who was manning the 130 00:07:42,106 --> 00:07:46,156 Speaker 3: booth when I came up and she is a dear heart, 131 00:07:46,166 --> 00:07:49,296 Speaker 3: but she dressed like little house on the Prairie or something. 132 00:07:50,746 --> 00:07:52,286 Speaker 1: And you're like, I'm in trouble. 133 00:07:53,066 --> 00:07:55,116 Speaker 3: I used to dress like the hippie I was, but 134 00:07:55,176 --> 00:07:58,236 Speaker 3: I thought I'm going to have to dress like that now. 135 00:07:58,256 --> 00:07:59,476 Speaker 1: Oh, how funny. 136 00:07:59,536 --> 00:08:03,826 Speaker 3: That is awesome. 137 00:08:04,916 --> 00:08:08,036 Speaker 2: This is amazing because I'm thinking of the listener who 138 00:08:08,076 --> 00:08:11,116 Speaker 2: has grown up in a broken home, as you have, 139 00:08:11,236 --> 00:08:15,116 Speaker 2: and who is carrying the weight of that and working 140 00:08:15,156 --> 00:08:17,616 Speaker 2: through that. And I'm also thinking of the listener who 141 00:08:17,656 --> 00:08:20,396 Speaker 2: has a college-age daughter or a high school-age daughter who 142 00:08:20,456 --> 00:08:23,456 Speaker 2: is just off the rails right now, who can hope 143 00:08:23,576 --> 00:08:26,856 Speaker 2: that God is working and God is in the midst 144 00:08:26,976 --> 00:08:27,686 Speaker 2: of those things. 145 00:08:28,326 --> 00:08:28,566 Speaker 3: Yes. 146 00:08:29,316 --> 00:08:31,336 Speaker 1: I know this can't be done in a half an hour. 147 00:08:31,556 --> 00:08:32,076 Speaker 1: I know that. 148 00:08:32,576 --> 00:08:35,696 Speaker 2: But obviously the book, Ladder of Love, the ladder will help. 149 00:08:35,736 --> 00:08:39,416 Speaker 2: But help us if we need that healing from Jesus. 150 00:08:39,456 --> 00:08:41,976 Speaker 2: What are some of those practices that helped you through 151 00:08:42,016 --> 00:08:42,466 Speaker 2: the years? 152 00:08:43,676 --> 00:08:46,626 Speaker 3: Oh, Arlene, the first thing that I would encourage anybody 153 00:08:46,666 --> 00:08:51,946 Speaker 3: to do is simply pray, I invite you in Jesus. 154 00:08:53,466 --> 00:08:57,946 Speaker 3: Right into the pain, right into the disappointments, right into 155 00:08:57,996 --> 00:09:00,396 Speaker 3: the place where you're just tired of struggling with the 156 00:09:00,456 --> 00:09:03,416 Speaker 3: same thing you've been struggling with for years or the 157 00:09:03,496 --> 00:09:07,316 Speaker 3: hopelessness or the being exhausted or the overwhelm, whatever it is, 158 00:09:08,736 --> 00:09:14,326 Speaker 3: and love him from there. Just say, come, come into 159 00:09:14,386 --> 00:09:16,506 Speaker 3: my pain, Lord. And I want you to know, I 160 00:09:16,586 --> 00:09:20,306 Speaker 3: love you from this place in this pain. I love you. 161 00:09:20,326 --> 00:09:23,326 Speaker 3: And I need you. I need you to come for me. 162 00:09:23,646 --> 00:09:26,166 Speaker 3: And I need a deeper revelation of your love. I 163 00:09:26,226 --> 00:09:30,676 Speaker 3: need your healing. And here's the thing. Don't stop asking 164 00:09:30,756 --> 00:09:34,596 Speaker 3: for it and be open to his answers because it 165 00:09:34,646 --> 00:09:37,686 Speaker 3: might come from a book. It might come from a podcast. 166 00:09:38,226 --> 00:09:42,646 Speaker 3: It might come from a sermon, a therapist that God 167 00:09:42,706 --> 00:09:46,366 Speaker 3: leads you to. God is endlessly creative in the way 168 00:09:46,406 --> 00:09:49,926 Speaker 3: he brings healing to us. And he is utterly committed 169 00:09:50,006 --> 00:09:54,026 Speaker 3: to our restoration and our healing. He is more at 170 00:09:54,126 --> 00:09:56,946 Speaker 3: work than we know. And there's so many things in 171 00:09:57,026 --> 00:10:00,766 Speaker 3: our life. that we don't understand until we're looking back 172 00:10:01,096 --> 00:10:04,306 Speaker 3: at it and go, oh, oh, you were there, God, 173 00:10:04,326 --> 00:10:08,406 Speaker 3: and you are after me. And even in the places 174 00:10:08,446 --> 00:10:11,906 Speaker 3: that we are longing for breakthrough, longing for healing, waiting 175 00:10:11,946 --> 00:10:15,826 Speaker 3: for him to come, he is moving and beautifying our 176 00:10:15,886 --> 00:10:19,676 Speaker 3: souls and deepening us in ways that we we don't know. 177 00:10:20,076 --> 00:10:23,756 Speaker 3: So the first thing, the thing, invite Jesus in. 178 00:10:24,216 --> 00:10:25,456 Speaker 1: Over and over again. 179 00:10:25,476 --> 00:10:25,546 Speaker 3: Yes. 180 00:10:25,876 --> 00:10:28,866 Speaker 1: Keep asking, keep seeking, keep knocking. 181 00:10:29,546 --> 00:10:35,946 Speaker 3: Yes. And trust, risk believing, risk asking again, risk hope rising. 182 00:10:36,906 --> 00:10:41,006 Speaker 3: He is a faithful God and he loves us. Yeah. 183 00:10:41,606 --> 00:10:44,466 Speaker 2: I'm thinking of the person who has kind of just pushed, 184 00:10:44,926 --> 00:10:47,736 Speaker 2: pushed this all down because it's just too much to 185 00:10:47,776 --> 00:10:48,176 Speaker 2: deal with. 186 00:10:48,216 --> 00:10:50,216 Speaker 1: So it's like, I got to take my kid to school. 187 00:10:50,276 --> 00:10:51,896 Speaker 1: I got to get to work. I got to do this. 188 00:10:51,916 --> 00:10:54,536 Speaker 1: I don't have time for this. 189 00:10:54,576 --> 00:10:56,436 Speaker 2: And let's say, you know, maybe they're married. I don't, 190 00:10:56,556 --> 00:10:58,976 Speaker 2: my spouse doesn't even know that I'm struggling through these things. 191 00:10:59,016 --> 00:11:01,096 Speaker 2: My spouse thinks I'm fine and I'm taken care of. 192 00:11:01,666 --> 00:11:02,246 Speaker 1: What's that? 193 00:11:02,586 --> 00:11:06,496 Speaker 2: So they, in addition to that, Lord, meet me here. 194 00:11:06,856 --> 00:11:09,546 Speaker 2: What's something you might say to reach out to someone else, 195 00:11:09,966 --> 00:11:13,046 Speaker 2: like to a spouse or to a friend, et cetera. 196 00:11:13,886 --> 00:11:17,006 Speaker 3: Mercy to you in that place. I remember when I 197 00:11:17,226 --> 00:11:21,516 Speaker 3: started a healing, a deep healing journey, I was working 198 00:11:21,576 --> 00:11:23,736 Speaker 3: at it. I wanted to work at a crisis pregnancy 199 00:11:23,776 --> 00:11:27,926 Speaker 3: center as a counselor. Yeah. But if you had a 200 00:11:27,986 --> 00:11:31,656 Speaker 3: previous abortion in your life, you had to go through 201 00:11:31,696 --> 00:11:34,976 Speaker 3: their counseling program before you could do that. 202 00:11:35,276 --> 00:11:36,416 Speaker 1: Well, I did. 203 00:11:36,436 --> 00:11:40,176 Speaker 3: And so I needed to go through that. And they said, 204 00:11:40,296 --> 00:11:42,966 Speaker 3: we're only here to deal with the pain around this. 205 00:11:43,106 --> 00:11:45,126 Speaker 3: And if something else surfaces in your life, you're going 206 00:11:45,146 --> 00:11:47,346 Speaker 3: to need to see a therapist. Well, when I started 207 00:11:47,386 --> 00:11:51,286 Speaker 3: pulling back the story of my life, a lot of 208 00:11:51,326 --> 00:11:54,686 Speaker 3: pain was there. I didn't know what to do with it. 209 00:11:54,756 --> 00:11:57,716 Speaker 3: And I was terrified that if I started crying, I 210 00:11:57,776 --> 00:12:03,736 Speaker 3: would never stop. And I had young children. They were 211 00:12:03,856 --> 00:12:07,436 Speaker 3: very young. And I started to go, I needed to 212 00:12:07,456 --> 00:12:14,506 Speaker 3: get healing from my childhood before I ruined theirs. And 213 00:12:14,886 --> 00:12:18,106 Speaker 3: then just asking God for the help and for the 214 00:12:18,146 --> 00:12:22,826 Speaker 3: resources and then to pursue them. For me, it began 215 00:12:22,886 --> 00:12:26,466 Speaker 3: praying for a good Christian counselor. That's where it started 216 00:12:26,526 --> 00:12:29,826 Speaker 3: for me. Our marriage was in a tough spot. And 217 00:12:29,866 --> 00:12:33,086 Speaker 3: John didn't have the capacity to, he wasn't going to 218 00:12:33,126 --> 00:12:36,866 Speaker 3: be my everything and counselor to walk through this. He 219 00:12:36,906 --> 00:12:40,726 Speaker 3: was bearing, he was the brunt and ramifications of my pain. 220 00:12:41,786 --> 00:12:44,066 Speaker 3: And I didn't have, I had just moved. I didn't 221 00:12:44,106 --> 00:12:46,806 Speaker 3: have a trusted friend that I could share with. I 222 00:12:46,846 --> 00:12:50,426 Speaker 3: didn't have a Bible study group. But for me, it 223 00:12:50,486 --> 00:12:56,556 Speaker 3: began with a Christian therapist. And I really highlight the 224 00:12:56,596 --> 00:13:00,336 Speaker 3: word Christian because when you're going into the sacred terrain 225 00:13:00,386 --> 00:13:03,766 Speaker 3: of your heart, you want somebody with a shared faith. 226 00:13:05,586 --> 00:13:08,486 Speaker 3: And you meet with one and you go, this doesn't fit. 227 00:13:08,626 --> 00:13:11,506 Speaker 3: I don't really click with this person. Then you wait 228 00:13:11,526 --> 00:13:15,206 Speaker 3: and you go with somebody else. But our journeys are 229 00:13:15,866 --> 00:13:18,586 Speaker 3: holy and deserve the eyes of another to help us 230 00:13:18,706 --> 00:13:22,096 Speaker 3: walk through to see them with kindness and mercy. Yeah. 231 00:13:23,096 --> 00:13:26,596 Speaker 3: And I stopped crying. I started crying, but I stopped. 232 00:13:27,196 --> 00:13:27,596 Speaker 1: Yes. 233 00:13:28,936 --> 00:13:30,776 Speaker 2: What helped you just through the day to day? Like, 234 00:13:30,856 --> 00:13:33,336 Speaker 2: so there you are, you're going to a therapist, but 235 00:13:33,396 --> 00:13:36,056 Speaker 2: you have little snacks to make and kids asking you 236 00:13:36,096 --> 00:13:38,536 Speaker 2: questions all the time. Cause I know there's a mom listening. 237 00:13:38,556 --> 00:13:42,126 Speaker 1: Who's right there. What helped, what was helping you in that? 238 00:13:42,146 --> 00:13:47,866 Speaker 3: Man, it was hard. It was so hard. Yes. I 239 00:13:47,906 --> 00:13:50,726 Speaker 3: think those were probably the hardest years of my life. 240 00:13:51,786 --> 00:13:56,776 Speaker 3: Those hidden years. I worked part-time, but most of the 241 00:13:56,816 --> 00:14:00,696 Speaker 3: time I'm at home with three boys close together who 242 00:14:00,816 --> 00:14:05,756 Speaker 3: are endlessly needy. One of mine was sick recently, a grandchild. 243 00:14:05,816 --> 00:14:09,666 Speaker 3: And I remember being sick myself and vomiting into the toilet. 244 00:14:09,686 --> 00:14:12,046 Speaker 3: And I have a two-year-old literally crawling on my back. 245 00:14:12,446 --> 00:14:17,206 Speaker 3: You don't have the space. So I would, my prayer 246 00:14:17,246 --> 00:14:22,846 Speaker 3: was help, just help. And my quiet times were at stoplights. 247 00:14:23,646 --> 00:14:26,186 Speaker 3: You know, it was literally of a red light. I'm 248 00:14:26,206 --> 00:14:30,106 Speaker 3: going to reach over and read this little paragraph while 249 00:14:30,126 --> 00:14:34,106 Speaker 3: I can move and putting on, putting on worship music 250 00:14:34,166 --> 00:14:36,526 Speaker 3: and really the cry for help. And also I asked 251 00:14:36,546 --> 00:14:41,636 Speaker 3: for God to bring me friends. Yes. So he actually did. 252 00:14:41,656 --> 00:14:44,116 Speaker 3: One time in service, I was sitting at the back 253 00:14:44,176 --> 00:14:46,096 Speaker 3: and a woman sat next to me. Our children were 254 00:14:46,116 --> 00:14:50,036 Speaker 3: around the same age. They both weren't ready for going 255 00:14:50,076 --> 00:14:55,296 Speaker 3: into the nursery. And she became a solid friend to 256 00:14:55,336 --> 00:14:59,796 Speaker 3: this day that I could share. I could reach out 257 00:14:59,896 --> 00:15:02,166 Speaker 3: and call in the middle of the day when things 258 00:15:02,196 --> 00:15:05,746 Speaker 3: were hard so that I eventually was not alone in it. 259 00:15:06,146 --> 00:15:08,746 Speaker 3: So I would say ask for the help, his help. 260 00:15:09,376 --> 00:15:12,406 Speaker 3: And then ask him to bring somebody that you can trust, 261 00:15:13,526 --> 00:15:16,586 Speaker 3: that can share your life with you, that you could 262 00:15:16,626 --> 00:15:20,186 Speaker 3: get together for playdates, that you could just anything so 263 00:15:20,226 --> 00:15:22,546 Speaker 3: that you're not isolated. We're not meant to live this 264 00:15:22,606 --> 00:15:24,986 Speaker 3: life alone. We need one another. 265 00:15:25,006 --> 00:15:25,086 Speaker 2: Yeah. 266 00:15:26,486 --> 00:15:27,126 Speaker 1: It's so good. 267 00:15:27,326 --> 00:15:31,526 Speaker 2: And it's, it's, these are doable things. They're honest, honest, 268 00:15:31,686 --> 00:15:35,426 Speaker 2: doable things. Help us understand the ladder of love. 269 00:15:35,546 --> 00:15:37,826 Speaker 1: Why is it a ladder? 270 00:15:38,886 --> 00:15:40,366 Speaker 3: I have the book just to show you. 271 00:15:40,386 --> 00:15:43,646 Speaker 1: Isn't it pretty? Yes, it is beautiful. 272 00:15:43,866 --> 00:15:44,826 Speaker 2: I have one too. 273 00:15:44,906 --> 00:15:45,756 Speaker 1: It's beautiful. 274 00:15:45,966 --> 00:15:46,996 Speaker 3: I just love the cover. 275 00:15:47,136 --> 00:15:47,876 Speaker 1: Okay. 276 00:15:47,936 --> 00:15:48,536 Speaker 2: It's beautiful. 277 00:15:48,916 --> 00:15:53,836 Speaker 3: The ladder of love. It's a ladder of ascending intimacy 278 00:15:54,056 --> 00:15:57,936 Speaker 3: and revelation of knowing God more deeply. Our whole lives 279 00:15:57,996 --> 00:16:01,496 Speaker 3: are that. And it's an unending knowing throughout all eternity 280 00:16:01,516 --> 00:16:04,916 Speaker 3: that we'll be learning more things about our God and 281 00:16:04,956 --> 00:16:07,716 Speaker 3: falling ever more in love with Him. But like a 282 00:16:07,796 --> 00:16:10,306 Speaker 3: natural ladder, when you have a ladder and you need 283 00:16:10,346 --> 00:16:13,106 Speaker 3: to climb up on the roof or something, it has 284 00:16:13,126 --> 00:16:16,086 Speaker 3: to be on a firm foundation. It can't be tippy. 285 00:16:16,766 --> 00:16:17,226 Speaker 1: That's right. 286 00:16:17,826 --> 00:16:21,156 Speaker 3: Just like us, we're on the firm foundation of Jesus Christ. 287 00:16:21,216 --> 00:16:24,036 Speaker 3: He is our foundation. The way He has revealed Himself 288 00:16:24,056 --> 00:16:27,076 Speaker 3: in the Word and who He is. And then when 289 00:16:27,096 --> 00:16:29,596 Speaker 3: you're ready, you climb the ladder, you climb the first rung. 290 00:16:30,306 --> 00:16:34,256 Speaker 3: You start there. And when you're able, you climb up 291 00:16:34,296 --> 00:16:36,636 Speaker 3: to the next run. And when you're firm, you climb 292 00:16:36,676 --> 00:16:40,296 Speaker 3: up to the next. But you never lose the bottom rungs. 293 00:16:40,816 --> 00:16:45,216 Speaker 3: They are still there and they are essential to your ascension. 294 00:16:46,076 --> 00:16:48,816 Speaker 3: And it's like that in our spiritual walk with God. 295 00:16:48,836 --> 00:16:52,316 Speaker 3: We come in to Christianity, whatever way we do. Usually 296 00:16:52,336 --> 00:16:55,456 Speaker 3: I'm knowing God in a particular way. Some people come 297 00:16:55,536 --> 00:16:57,936 Speaker 3: in and they know like it's Jesus. That's who I'm. 298 00:16:58,546 --> 00:17:02,126 Speaker 3: Some people it's father and it's like that. Well, throughout 299 00:17:02,166 --> 00:17:05,586 Speaker 3: the scriptures, God reveals himself to us in various ways 300 00:17:05,666 --> 00:17:09,235 Speaker 3: and using various metaphors. So that's what I use in 301 00:17:09,276 --> 00:17:13,536 Speaker 3: the ladder of love. The first one being his creation, 302 00:17:13,616 --> 00:17:18,596 Speaker 3: being clay. And he is the potter. And what that 303 00:17:18,776 --> 00:17:21,376 Speaker 3: means to be formed, to be breathed upon, to be 304 00:17:21,796 --> 00:17:25,346 Speaker 3: intricately formed by the fingerprints of God. And I just 305 00:17:25,366 --> 00:17:28,495 Speaker 3: get to unfold that. And then the next rung you 306 00:17:28,535 --> 00:17:32,835 Speaker 3: move up, you're no longer an inanimate object. You're a sheep. 307 00:17:33,556 --> 00:17:36,186 Speaker 3: You're one of the members of his flock. And we 308 00:17:36,205 --> 00:17:37,965 Speaker 3: get to know what it is to have him as 309 00:17:38,025 --> 00:17:41,305 Speaker 3: our shepherd. And one version is translated as he is 310 00:17:41,366 --> 00:17:44,745 Speaker 3: my best friend. The Lord is my best friend. I 311 00:17:44,846 --> 00:17:48,386 Speaker 3: lack nothing. And then to dive into what that means 312 00:17:48,686 --> 00:17:51,475 Speaker 3: and then to rise up again would be to serve it. 313 00:17:52,056 --> 00:17:56,116 Speaker 3: which I reframed as devoted one, because there's just a 314 00:17:56,176 --> 00:17:58,396 Speaker 3: lot of the translation that we know that we can 315 00:17:58,416 --> 00:18:01,446 Speaker 3: kind of get that wrong. But as we ascend and 316 00:18:01,465 --> 00:18:07,506 Speaker 3: we go to child, to sibling, to friend, to ultimately 317 00:18:07,546 --> 00:18:12,666 Speaker 3: to bride, we never lose those aspects of our relationship. 318 00:18:13,186 --> 00:18:14,015 Speaker 1: It's essential. 319 00:18:14,035 --> 00:18:17,076 Speaker 3: We are always children. We are always a sheep. He is. 320 00:18:17,136 --> 00:18:19,275 Speaker 3: We're members of his flock. We are always clay. He 321 00:18:19,336 --> 00:18:23,725 Speaker 3: is continually forming us. And that's, that's why a ladder, 322 00:18:24,306 --> 00:18:28,266 Speaker 3: because we don't want to stay stuck on a bottom run. Yeah. 323 00:18:28,965 --> 00:18:33,846 Speaker 3: We don't want to just know God as a servant master, which, 324 00:18:34,046 --> 00:18:38,586 Speaker 3: which many sincere believers can stay at because they want 325 00:18:38,606 --> 00:18:42,396 Speaker 3: to honor him. And they, and they can also, and 326 00:18:42,436 --> 00:18:44,275 Speaker 3: I did this, I don't know if you've ever did this, Arlene, 327 00:18:44,416 --> 00:18:48,616 Speaker 3: I slipped into without knowing it, that feeling like if 328 00:18:48,755 --> 00:18:50,896 Speaker 3: the more I did for God, the more he was 329 00:18:50,916 --> 00:18:55,146 Speaker 3: going to like me. Yeah. The more approval I would have. 330 00:18:55,166 --> 00:18:57,746 Speaker 1: Do you see me? Do you see what I'm doing here? 331 00:18:57,765 --> 00:19:01,186 Speaker 1: I'm doing okay, right? We're good. It's so good. Yeah. 332 00:19:01,586 --> 00:19:04,145 Speaker 3: So the shift from like, no, it's not about service. 333 00:19:04,245 --> 00:19:05,845 Speaker 3: It's about devotion. 334 00:19:07,346 --> 00:19:08,446 Speaker 1: It's worship. 335 00:19:09,066 --> 00:19:10,766 Speaker 3: It's coming out of a heart of love for him, 336 00:19:10,846 --> 00:19:13,806 Speaker 3: not from what I can get or earn, but because 337 00:19:13,826 --> 00:19:17,205 Speaker 3: of what I've already received. So there's a lot of 338 00:19:17,265 --> 00:19:21,106 Speaker 3: reframing in it. And then just the invitation to come closer. 339 00:19:22,796 --> 00:19:25,596 Speaker 3: What you know, a father to a child is very 340 00:19:25,636 --> 00:19:29,215 Speaker 3: different than a father to a servant. And that relationship 341 00:19:29,255 --> 00:19:33,116 Speaker 3: is different as a sibling or a friend. A dad 342 00:19:33,556 --> 00:19:38,855 Speaker 3: loves his child beyond telling, but doesn't always confide in 343 00:19:38,876 --> 00:19:42,615 Speaker 3: their child. Not like you confide in a friend. And 344 00:19:42,696 --> 00:19:47,436 Speaker 3: Jesus calls us friends. So there's more. It's so exciting. Right. 345 00:19:47,515 --> 00:19:49,585 Speaker 1: All these different facets of this ladder. Yes. 346 00:19:51,806 --> 00:19:54,546 Speaker 2: You quote Tim Keller, which I love this particular quote 347 00:19:54,566 --> 00:19:57,396 Speaker 2: in the book, the only person who dares wake up 348 00:19:57,416 --> 00:20:00,136 Speaker 2: a king at 3 a.m. for a glass of water 349 00:20:00,336 --> 00:20:04,106 Speaker 2: is a child. We have that kind of access. So 350 00:20:04,146 --> 00:20:07,466 Speaker 2: it is this, he's my dad, but I'm also his 351 00:20:07,525 --> 00:20:10,556 Speaker 2: devoted servant. and I'm also his clay and he can 352 00:20:10,596 --> 00:20:14,616 Speaker 2: do with me whatever he likes, but I'm, I'm his bride. 353 00:20:14,755 --> 00:20:17,055 Speaker 1: So he cherishes me and loves me. I mean, this 354 00:20:17,136 --> 00:20:18,116 Speaker 1: is very beautiful. 355 00:20:18,156 --> 00:20:20,396 Speaker 2: It's like getting to know your identity in Christ and 356 00:20:20,836 --> 00:20:23,656 Speaker 2: what you said earlier about that foundation and you know, 357 00:20:23,676 --> 00:20:26,316 Speaker 2: we'll lay that ladder on our job or we'll lay 358 00:20:26,376 --> 00:20:29,636 Speaker 2: that ladder on our motherhood or being a good wife 359 00:20:29,995 --> 00:20:33,376 Speaker 2: or being successful, having a good Christian platform where we'll 360 00:20:33,396 --> 00:20:35,936 Speaker 2: lay that ladder on the wrong thing and then realize, wait, 361 00:20:35,955 --> 00:20:38,876 Speaker 2: this is not even right. So put it back towards 362 00:20:38,946 --> 00:20:44,005 Speaker 2: Jesus and that spiritual intimacy. That's so, so good. In 363 00:20:44,025 --> 00:20:47,366 Speaker 2: the section about sheep, you write this about being so spent, 364 00:20:47,806 --> 00:20:50,045 Speaker 2: like when you are so spent. And I know a 365 00:20:50,066 --> 00:20:53,505 Speaker 2: lot of our listeners are have experienced this or are 366 00:20:53,535 --> 00:20:57,366 Speaker 2: in it right now. When you are tired, you write rest, 367 00:20:58,126 --> 00:21:02,066 Speaker 2: don't quit. I love that. When you are tired, rest, 368 00:21:02,846 --> 00:21:06,485 Speaker 2: don't quit. When were you tempted to quit, but instead 369 00:21:06,505 --> 00:21:07,725 Speaker 2: you realize I just need rest. 370 00:21:07,906 --> 00:21:10,406 Speaker 3: That's really good because I really like that it says 371 00:21:10,586 --> 00:21:15,576 Speaker 3: when you are tired. Like it's not if you get tired. 372 00:21:15,735 --> 00:21:18,985 Speaker 3: We are living full and demanding lives, all of us. 373 00:21:19,916 --> 00:21:23,896 Speaker 3: And we hit spaces where it's too much. So for me, 374 00:21:24,076 --> 00:21:29,106 Speaker 3: it was back in around 2018, where I was so 375 00:21:29,285 --> 00:21:32,786 Speaker 3: spent from ministry. I love what I get to do, 376 00:21:33,285 --> 00:21:37,226 Speaker 3: but the outpouring of ministry and then the outpouring with 377 00:21:37,785 --> 00:21:42,126 Speaker 3: your children. I have adult children, but I'm still a 378 00:21:42,196 --> 00:21:46,205 Speaker 3: mom and they still need me. And now I'm a grandmother. 379 00:21:46,525 --> 00:21:49,715 Speaker 3: So there's, you can pull on in lots of different ways. 380 00:21:50,416 --> 00:21:54,075 Speaker 3: And I was, I was not at that point, I 381 00:21:54,116 --> 00:21:57,056 Speaker 3: was not tapping into the river of life. I didn't 382 00:21:57,096 --> 00:21:59,856 Speaker 3: even know how to do it. I was just tired 383 00:22:00,285 --> 00:22:03,206 Speaker 3: and spent. So I wanted to quit. I just kind 384 00:22:03,245 --> 00:22:06,126 Speaker 3: of saw that was the only answer. Yeah. Not being 385 00:22:06,166 --> 00:22:08,045 Speaker 3: a mom and not being a grandmother, but I could 386 00:22:08,066 --> 00:22:10,446 Speaker 3: at least quit my work and just like fail. Um, 387 00:22:11,965 --> 00:22:14,686 Speaker 3: And then the invitation from God was, you don't need 388 00:22:14,705 --> 00:22:18,866 Speaker 3: to quit, but you do need to rest. You need 389 00:22:18,946 --> 00:22:23,516 Speaker 3: to live differently. Now, for me, what that afforded me 390 00:22:23,636 --> 00:22:27,335 Speaker 3: was I got to take a sabbatical and just pull away. 391 00:22:27,356 --> 00:22:31,676 Speaker 3: And it wasn't quitting, but it was a pause button. 392 00:22:32,715 --> 00:22:36,495 Speaker 3: And that was the most precious and life-changing time for me, 393 00:22:37,376 --> 00:22:41,215 Speaker 3: almost 10 years ago now, where I had unlimited time. 394 00:22:41,985 --> 00:22:44,566 Speaker 3: to be with Jesus. It wasn't like, okay, we've got 395 00:22:44,606 --> 00:22:46,725 Speaker 3: an hour now and I've got places to go, things 396 00:22:46,785 --> 00:22:51,965 Speaker 3: to do. It was, I don't, I let's go. I 397 00:22:52,025 --> 00:22:54,615 Speaker 3: really want to encounter you. I want to experience you. 398 00:22:54,656 --> 00:22:57,255 Speaker 3: I want to know you more deeply. And this really 399 00:22:57,356 --> 00:23:01,795 Speaker 3: catapulted me into a level of intimacy with Christ that 400 00:23:01,876 --> 00:23:06,775 Speaker 3: I didn't know was available because he fully had my attention, 401 00:23:07,836 --> 00:23:12,036 Speaker 3: fully had my time. And then there was a refreshment 402 00:23:12,116 --> 00:23:16,176 Speaker 3: and a reorientation and a resetting of vision and desire 403 00:23:16,235 --> 00:23:20,436 Speaker 3: awakened again. But I did have to change the way 404 00:23:20,495 --> 00:23:25,156 Speaker 3: I lived. I needed a couple things. One was I 405 00:23:25,215 --> 00:23:29,116 Speaker 3: needed to know that I really was called to rest 406 00:23:29,336 --> 00:23:33,696 Speaker 3: in the love of God. If His love is an ocean, 407 00:23:33,715 --> 00:23:37,355 Speaker 3: I'm not going to do the breaststroke through it. I'm 408 00:23:37,376 --> 00:23:39,216 Speaker 3: going to lay in it. I'm going to do that. 409 00:23:40,475 --> 00:23:43,575 Speaker 3: Let's just do the back float and just rest in 410 00:23:43,616 --> 00:23:46,566 Speaker 3: his love. I'm not going to earn it. I'm not 411 00:23:46,586 --> 00:23:48,785 Speaker 3: going to fight for it. I'm going to believe it 412 00:23:48,886 --> 00:23:52,566 Speaker 3: and receive it. But I also had to change my schedule. 413 00:23:52,586 --> 00:23:55,546 Speaker 3: I did. And I, you know, in making my time 414 00:23:55,586 --> 00:23:59,085 Speaker 3: with God, the priority of my life, I had to 415 00:23:59,126 --> 00:24:02,826 Speaker 3: put it in my calendar. Like this is untouchable time. 416 00:24:02,846 --> 00:24:07,845 Speaker 3: This is, and then I had to say no a 417 00:24:07,906 --> 00:24:12,525 Speaker 3: lot more than I had been. Yeah. You get a 418 00:24:12,626 --> 00:24:15,966 Speaker 3: lot of requests to do things. People think you ought 419 00:24:15,985 --> 00:24:19,465 Speaker 3: to be doing something else that, you know, um, and 420 00:24:19,485 --> 00:24:21,465 Speaker 3: you really have to bring that before God to go, 421 00:24:21,566 --> 00:24:23,446 Speaker 3: is this something you have for me or is it not? 422 00:24:23,505 --> 00:24:26,016 Speaker 3: Because I feel like I can only, I only have 423 00:24:26,126 --> 00:24:29,035 Speaker 3: so much time and so much capacity and I need 424 00:24:29,275 --> 00:24:33,436 Speaker 3: margin in my life. That's right. And also, you know, 425 00:24:33,475 --> 00:24:37,575 Speaker 3: that when you have margin, there's always crises, things happen. 426 00:24:38,696 --> 00:24:41,205 Speaker 1: It's the emergency fund. 427 00:24:41,285 --> 00:24:46,726 Speaker 3: You need it. So having margin, scheduling time with Jesus 428 00:24:46,745 --> 00:24:52,465 Speaker 3: that's sacred, saying no more, and just trying to live 429 00:24:52,686 --> 00:24:54,965 Speaker 3: a more reasonable paced life. 430 00:24:56,096 --> 00:25:00,606 Speaker 2: And then impassioned. It's like it's less, but there's passion 431 00:25:00,646 --> 00:25:04,386 Speaker 2: behind it and enjoyment because you can sustain that. I 432 00:25:05,066 --> 00:25:08,025 Speaker 2: was listening to your Captivated podcast, which is so good. 433 00:25:08,666 --> 00:25:10,746 Speaker 2: And you were talking about how for you and John, 434 00:25:10,946 --> 00:25:13,166 Speaker 2: your home is more like a monastery. 435 00:25:13,225 --> 00:25:13,926 Speaker 1: Like it's very. 436 00:25:14,606 --> 00:25:17,616 Speaker 2: quiet and nice but then when you had your adult 437 00:25:17,656 --> 00:25:20,416 Speaker 2: children and grandchildren in for a period of time which 438 00:25:20,455 --> 00:25:22,515 Speaker 2: turned into a longer time because of a remodel and 439 00:25:22,556 --> 00:25:25,096 Speaker 2: all that that oh my goodness what happened to my 440 00:25:25,156 --> 00:25:29,156 Speaker 2: monastery talk to that mom or dad who do like 441 00:25:29,205 --> 00:25:32,205 Speaker 2: that more calm living but they have children right now 442 00:25:32,745 --> 00:25:33,866 Speaker 2: what are some. 443 00:25:33,686 --> 00:25:37,465 Speaker 1: Things they can do to create that that time. 444 00:25:37,245 --> 00:25:40,065 Speaker 2: Away, even though that's on a daily thing, but it 445 00:25:40,586 --> 00:25:42,456 Speaker 2: could be part of your day or maybe take a 446 00:25:42,656 --> 00:25:43,775 Speaker 2: two day retreat or something. 447 00:25:43,796 --> 00:25:45,316 Speaker 1: What are some things in that stage? 448 00:25:47,475 --> 00:25:52,835 Speaker 3: Having quiet times with your children. It doesn't mean, I mean, 449 00:25:52,856 --> 00:25:57,286 Speaker 3: they can, they outgrow napping, but they don't outgrow. They 450 00:25:57,346 --> 00:26:01,326 Speaker 3: have a need for quiet space too. So to incorporate 451 00:26:01,386 --> 00:26:04,126 Speaker 3: a time, maybe it's after lunch where there's an hour 452 00:26:04,146 --> 00:26:07,955 Speaker 3: of where they're in their bedrooms and they're reading or 453 00:26:08,056 --> 00:26:12,095 Speaker 3: quiet play. Just, just you, you need a recalibration just 454 00:26:12,416 --> 00:26:17,245 Speaker 3: to like settle in. And I think that's really doable. 455 00:26:17,926 --> 00:26:20,305 Speaker 3: So I've seen it. I've done it with, I did 456 00:26:20,326 --> 00:26:22,725 Speaker 3: it with my children. I see my grandchildren doing it 457 00:26:22,926 --> 00:26:24,806 Speaker 3: and the way they're with their kids. And it looks 458 00:26:24,906 --> 00:26:28,546 Speaker 3: very different from the families, the way like it might 459 00:26:28,606 --> 00:26:31,785 Speaker 3: be there in the rooms and they're building Legos and 460 00:26:32,616 --> 00:26:35,075 Speaker 3: But they're not engaging with each other. It's not loud, 461 00:26:35,116 --> 00:26:38,755 Speaker 3: raucous play. And then another family, it's looking through books 462 00:26:38,836 --> 00:26:42,086 Speaker 3: or reading books. And what I've seen is the children 463 00:26:42,366 --> 00:26:45,446 Speaker 3: like it. They might not like it at first, but 464 00:26:45,465 --> 00:26:49,485 Speaker 3: then they do. They like it. And this whole resetting. 465 00:26:49,546 --> 00:26:54,296 Speaker 3: So I would need, and I still do, just quiet 466 00:26:54,515 --> 00:26:55,955 Speaker 3: and a little bit of space. 467 00:26:55,975 --> 00:26:56,055 Speaker 2: Yeah. 468 00:26:56,876 --> 00:26:59,276 Speaker 3: And I need it every day in order to be 469 00:26:59,556 --> 00:27:01,715 Speaker 3: the woman I'm meant to be, in order to love 470 00:27:01,856 --> 00:27:05,146 Speaker 3: well and live well. I need that. 471 00:27:06,166 --> 00:27:09,206 Speaker 2: That is one tangible thing. I love that because there's 472 00:27:09,225 --> 00:27:12,446 Speaker 2: someone listening like, wait, I can do that. That sounds heavenly. 473 00:27:12,765 --> 00:27:15,296 Speaker 2: And yes, you can do that. And now one thing 474 00:27:15,326 --> 00:27:17,495 Speaker 2: that fights against this, of course, and it's something I 475 00:27:17,535 --> 00:27:20,096 Speaker 2: talk about a lot is when your kids are so 476 00:27:20,176 --> 00:27:22,936 Speaker 2: used to screens, it's very hard for them to do that. 477 00:27:23,485 --> 00:27:26,705 Speaker 2: So a beautiful thing is you can reset this in 478 00:27:26,725 --> 00:27:29,806 Speaker 2: your home. You can have a new pattern. I have 479 00:27:29,906 --> 00:27:32,146 Speaker 2: my new book that came out, The Great Tech Reset, 480 00:27:32,765 --> 00:27:35,225 Speaker 2: Reclaiming Real Life for Christian Families. 481 00:27:35,465 --> 00:27:38,196 Speaker 1: And it's with Summit Ministries right close to you, Colorado. 482 00:27:38,215 --> 00:27:44,196 Speaker 2: And people can go to techresetbook.com and get your free copy. 483 00:27:44,215 --> 00:27:44,975 Speaker 1: And I'll have that link. 484 00:27:45,495 --> 00:27:48,736 Speaker 2: But this call that Stacey is saying of just, hey, 485 00:27:48,816 --> 00:27:51,696 Speaker 2: let's have an hour of quiet play. And you may 486 00:27:51,735 --> 00:27:53,256 Speaker 2: wonder how in the world am I going to pull 487 00:27:53,296 --> 00:27:55,075 Speaker 2: that off? You know, we're going to, we're going to 488 00:27:55,096 --> 00:27:57,836 Speaker 2: help you great tech reset because you can pull that off. 489 00:27:58,916 --> 00:28:00,356 Speaker 2: So many things I want to talk to you about, 490 00:28:00,396 --> 00:28:02,676 Speaker 2: but just a few, I want to get in having 491 00:28:02,755 --> 00:28:05,196 Speaker 2: fun with your spouse through all these things. 492 00:28:05,455 --> 00:28:08,235 Speaker 1: You and John play ping pong. I love that. 493 00:28:09,035 --> 00:28:12,975 Speaker 2: So just give us that importance of play that God 494 00:28:13,096 --> 00:28:16,406 Speaker 2: may play. And that's important for you with your kids 495 00:28:16,446 --> 00:28:17,366 Speaker 2: and also with your spouse. 496 00:28:17,836 --> 00:28:21,096 Speaker 3: Oh, it totally is. It's so important to laugh together. 497 00:28:21,116 --> 00:28:24,505 Speaker 3: And also, you know, John and I work at the 498 00:28:24,535 --> 00:28:27,846 Speaker 3: same place, right? We have the same ministry. So we 499 00:28:27,886 --> 00:28:30,426 Speaker 3: can talk about it all through dinner. We can talk 500 00:28:30,465 --> 00:28:33,366 Speaker 3: about it all through night. So we have to set parameters. 501 00:28:33,606 --> 00:28:36,426 Speaker 3: And when dinner starts, that part of our life is, 502 00:28:36,785 --> 00:28:40,306 Speaker 3: unless it's some emergency, is set aside. So after dinner, 503 00:28:40,566 --> 00:28:42,865 Speaker 3: our ritual is to either play cribbage. 504 00:28:42,886 --> 00:28:43,646 Speaker 2: Okay. 505 00:28:44,236 --> 00:28:47,576 Speaker 3: Or we play ping pong or we play both. Ping 506 00:28:47,616 --> 00:28:50,796 Speaker 3: pong is preferable because of like what it does to 507 00:28:50,836 --> 00:28:53,256 Speaker 3: your brain. Just this back and forth thing. You can 508 00:28:53,296 --> 00:28:56,596 Speaker 3: feel this reset happening. And he always makes me laugh. 509 00:28:58,396 --> 00:29:00,896 Speaker 3: He is funny. A lot of people don't know this 510 00:29:00,936 --> 00:29:04,256 Speaker 3: about him, but he is so funny. And I will 511 00:29:04,276 --> 00:29:07,456 Speaker 3: be doubled over laughing. And it's just the best thing 512 00:29:07,516 --> 00:29:11,446 Speaker 3: to do together. Even if things are serious or stuff 513 00:29:11,466 --> 00:29:13,146 Speaker 3: going on, but you have to take the time to 514 00:29:13,206 --> 00:29:15,646 Speaker 3: either go for a walk in the evenings and enjoy 515 00:29:15,706 --> 00:29:21,056 Speaker 3: that space or to just play. We're meant to play 516 00:29:21,436 --> 00:29:24,155 Speaker 3: and have delight and enjoy things. So whatever it is, 517 00:29:24,196 --> 00:29:27,396 Speaker 3: like to find that, that you can share with your spouse. 518 00:29:27,426 --> 00:29:30,126 Speaker 3: And it's not long. I mean, ping pong takes 15 minutes. 519 00:29:30,686 --> 00:29:33,306 Speaker 3: Cribbage is a half hour, but it's, it's great. 520 00:29:34,776 --> 00:29:37,315 Speaker 2: You know, as some of us were entering, you know, 521 00:29:37,336 --> 00:29:40,736 Speaker 2: my youngest is a senior in high school and some 522 00:29:40,776 --> 00:29:44,456 Speaker 2: are listening and they've got kids in diapers. But the 523 00:29:44,516 --> 00:29:47,236 Speaker 2: time is coming where we will be what you call 524 00:29:47,276 --> 00:29:50,986 Speaker 2: the supporting cast of our children. And I like that 525 00:29:51,026 --> 00:29:54,306 Speaker 2: so much. Cast that vision that we will understand. Of course, 526 00:29:54,326 --> 00:29:56,526 Speaker 2: we are here to support our children, but someday we 527 00:29:56,566 --> 00:29:57,726 Speaker 2: will be supporting cast. 528 00:29:58,246 --> 00:30:02,356 Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely. And right now your family, when they're living 529 00:30:02,376 --> 00:30:05,696 Speaker 3: at home, you are the hub. You really are. It 530 00:30:07,516 --> 00:30:10,176 Speaker 3: kind of decreases as they get older, as they get 531 00:30:10,236 --> 00:30:13,026 Speaker 3: into more activities and sports and things, but still it's 532 00:30:13,146 --> 00:30:16,865 Speaker 3: dinner and it's vacations and it's family, it's holidays. You 533 00:30:17,356 --> 00:30:20,206 Speaker 3: It centers around you and your family. But then when 534 00:30:20,226 --> 00:30:25,426 Speaker 3: they become adults and as they grow, they seem to 535 00:30:25,466 --> 00:30:27,085 Speaker 3: think that they have a right to a life of 536 00:30:27,146 --> 00:30:27,666 Speaker 3: their own. 537 00:30:27,686 --> 00:30:29,706 Speaker 1: Imagine that. 538 00:30:30,006 --> 00:30:30,706 Speaker 3: Imagine that. 539 00:30:31,166 --> 00:30:31,825 Speaker 1: And they do. 540 00:30:31,966 --> 00:30:36,426 Speaker 3: And it's exactly what you raised them for. Like, yes, yes, 541 00:30:36,486 --> 00:30:40,266 Speaker 3: you get to start your own family. And in that, 542 00:30:40,426 --> 00:30:45,606 Speaker 3: we're no longer the hub. We don't have a right 543 00:30:45,716 --> 00:30:49,846 Speaker 3: into their lives. We have to be invited in. Yeah. 544 00:30:50,586 --> 00:30:53,806 Speaker 3: And so this really fabulous to develop a kind of 545 00:30:53,846 --> 00:30:57,845 Speaker 3: relationship of respect and mutual support that you can be 546 00:30:57,946 --> 00:30:59,966 Speaker 3: invited in and you are, and they do want to 547 00:31:00,006 --> 00:31:02,666 Speaker 3: spend time with you, which is wonderful. But at the 548 00:31:02,726 --> 00:31:05,606 Speaker 3: same time, we go to birthday parties, we do this 549 00:31:05,626 --> 00:31:08,196 Speaker 3: and that. It's not around us. It's around them. We're 550 00:31:08,256 --> 00:31:14,355 Speaker 3: on the outskirts, supporting, cheering on, playing with, and it's 551 00:31:14,416 --> 00:31:16,266 Speaker 3: a big shift. It really is. 552 00:31:16,276 --> 00:31:16,355 Speaker 2: Yeah. 553 00:31:17,336 --> 00:31:19,276 Speaker 1: And a tough one. It took me a little while. 554 00:31:19,296 --> 00:31:21,916 Speaker 2: I was going to say, people are listening like, wait, 555 00:31:21,996 --> 00:31:24,256 Speaker 2: like as a mom, we have so much power over 556 00:31:24,296 --> 00:31:27,815 Speaker 2: the calendar and like nothing happens without us putting it 557 00:31:27,896 --> 00:31:28,616 Speaker 2: in a calendar. 558 00:31:28,636 --> 00:31:30,616 Speaker 1: And then someday you mean I'm going. 559 00:31:30,536 --> 00:31:32,776 Speaker 2: To have to beg my children to have lunch with 560 00:31:32,836 --> 00:31:36,236 Speaker 2: me to put me in their calendar. I had this 561 00:31:36,276 --> 00:31:39,236 Speaker 2: realization the other day, Stacey, that was so funny. I 562 00:31:39,256 --> 00:31:41,936 Speaker 2: thought when our kids are small, they're always like, look 563 00:31:41,956 --> 00:31:44,216 Speaker 2: at me, look at me, look at me to the parrot. 564 00:31:44,876 --> 00:31:47,796 Speaker 2: And then now when they're adults, we have a 22-year-old 565 00:31:47,816 --> 00:31:49,376 Speaker 2: adult working son. 566 00:31:49,956 --> 00:31:52,246 Speaker 1: We're like, look at me, son. Look at me, son. 567 00:31:52,266 --> 00:31:54,386 Speaker 2: Look at me, son. Do you have time to chat 568 00:31:54,426 --> 00:31:56,286 Speaker 2: with me? Do you have time to, you know, like 569 00:31:56,746 --> 00:32:00,066 Speaker 2: have a car ride somewhere? So it's so funny that 570 00:32:00,246 --> 00:32:03,345 Speaker 2: we switch things. And I think it's a call to 571 00:32:03,446 --> 00:32:05,676 Speaker 2: us when we are in the stage where our kids 572 00:32:05,736 --> 00:32:08,036 Speaker 2: are little and they want us to look at them. 573 00:32:08,196 --> 00:32:11,696 Speaker 1: Please don't look at your phone. Don't look at your work. 574 00:32:12,136 --> 00:32:14,756 Speaker 2: Don't, you know, have all these extras look at your 575 00:32:14,796 --> 00:32:17,396 Speaker 2: children because it is the time and space that they 576 00:32:17,476 --> 00:32:18,776 Speaker 2: want you to look at them. 577 00:32:18,816 --> 00:32:21,466 Speaker 3: Yes. And we can say what feels not true when 578 00:32:21,486 --> 00:32:24,345 Speaker 3: you're in the moment, you know, the saying that it's days, 579 00:32:24,366 --> 00:32:27,886 Speaker 3: but the shortest years that in the moment there's all 580 00:32:27,906 --> 00:32:30,026 Speaker 3: the time in the world. And this is so demanding 581 00:32:30,086 --> 00:32:31,866 Speaker 3: and so hard, but we can say on the side, 582 00:32:32,026 --> 00:32:35,166 Speaker 3: it's fleeting. Yeah. It's fleeting. 583 00:32:36,026 --> 00:32:36,286 Speaker 1: Yeah. 584 00:32:36,526 --> 00:32:39,065 Speaker 3: They're, you know, before they go to school or before 585 00:32:39,086 --> 00:32:42,296 Speaker 3: the childhood is an average of 10 years. And then 586 00:32:42,306 --> 00:32:45,656 Speaker 3: there's the teens and then activities and, you get to 587 00:32:45,896 --> 00:32:49,666 Speaker 3: foster relationship with them at every stage of their life. 588 00:32:49,826 --> 00:32:55,566 Speaker 3: And even now with mine, 37, 35 and 33, it's different, 589 00:32:55,666 --> 00:33:00,065 Speaker 3: but they still need their mom. They still do, but it's. 590 00:33:00,106 --> 00:33:02,226 Speaker 1: Just encouraging on a relationship. 591 00:33:03,086 --> 00:33:05,756 Speaker 3: Yeah, they do. And it's, it's great. 592 00:33:07,576 --> 00:33:10,686 Speaker 1: It's just, and what a, What a beautiful invitation, right? 593 00:33:10,746 --> 00:33:14,605 Speaker 2: That throughout all the stages of our kids' lives, as 594 00:33:14,766 --> 00:33:18,366 Speaker 2: we climb this ladder of love, we will always have 595 00:33:18,426 --> 00:33:22,486 Speaker 2: this closer, as you talk about further up, further in, 596 00:33:23,226 --> 00:33:26,046 Speaker 2: kind of relationship with God. So even as seasons in 597 00:33:26,086 --> 00:33:29,325 Speaker 2: our parenting phase out or seasons of work phase out 598 00:33:29,346 --> 00:33:32,726 Speaker 2: or whatever, we can always keep climbing this ladder of 599 00:33:32,806 --> 00:33:37,506 Speaker 2: love with our God, our Father. Jesus, Holy spirit. Thank 600 00:33:37,526 --> 00:33:40,905 Speaker 2: you so much for writing this beautiful book. Stacey, how 601 00:33:40,946 --> 00:33:44,026 Speaker 2: can people find out about you? You have your captivating podcast. 602 00:33:44,526 --> 00:33:47,566 Speaker 2: How can people learn more about you and find you? 603 00:33:47,586 --> 00:33:53,116 Speaker 3: Um, I am the wild at heart.org website is a 604 00:33:53,196 --> 00:33:57,815 Speaker 3: great resource to find me, to find our ministry, to 605 00:33:57,856 --> 00:34:03,336 Speaker 3: find the captivated podcast, the teachings, the resources, um, That 606 00:34:03,416 --> 00:34:05,636 Speaker 3: is the number one way is to go to wild 607 00:34:05,716 --> 00:34:08,646 Speaker 3: at heart.org. And then of course I'm on Facebook and 608 00:34:08,746 --> 00:34:12,565 Speaker 3: Instagram and, um, yeah. And I would love them to 609 00:34:12,606 --> 00:34:17,125 Speaker 3: get this book because of God's invitation. He's always saying, 610 00:34:17,186 --> 00:34:20,946 Speaker 3: come closer. And then having that relationship with him is 611 00:34:21,036 --> 00:34:24,456 Speaker 3: the source for every other area of our life to 612 00:34:24,516 --> 00:34:27,176 Speaker 3: be the people that we're meant to be offer, love, 613 00:34:27,916 --> 00:34:31,576 Speaker 3: Be the parents, be the spouse, be the friend. It 614 00:34:31,636 --> 00:34:33,216 Speaker 3: all comes down to Him first. 615 00:34:33,516 --> 00:34:36,696 Speaker 2: Yeah. Amen. Thank you, Stacey, so much for reminding us 616 00:34:36,756 --> 00:34:39,846 Speaker 2: that this ladder exists and that the call of the 617 00:34:39,886 --> 00:34:41,526 Speaker 2: Father has come. 618 00:34:41,626 --> 00:34:42,366 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. 619 00:34:43,026 --> 00:34:43,626 Speaker 3: My pleasure. 620 00:34:45,586 --> 00:34:48,826 Speaker 2: I hope you've enjoyed today's conversation. I'd love to keep 621 00:34:48,886 --> 00:34:50,426 Speaker 2: in touch beyond this podcast. 622 00:34:50,966 --> 00:34:52,326 Speaker 1: Click subscribe in the. 623 00:34:52,326 --> 00:34:55,026 Speaker 2: Show notes and I will give you my latest email 624 00:34:55,046 --> 00:34:57,106 Speaker 2: to keep up on what's happening. 625 00:34:56,766 --> 00:35:00,716 Speaker 1: With technology and kids. And maybe you like reading or 626 00:35:00,856 --> 00:35:02,896 Speaker 1: listening to books. I have a lot of books. 627 00:35:03,076 --> 00:35:06,556 Speaker 2: You could start with the big three, Making Marriage Easier, 628 00:35:07,116 --> 00:35:10,996 Speaker 2: Parents Rising, or Screen Kids. A big thank you to 629 00:35:11,016 --> 00:35:13,536 Speaker 2: the team at Life Audio for their partnership with the 630 00:35:13,576 --> 00:35:14,636 Speaker 2: Happy Home Podcast. 631 00:35:15,056 --> 00:35:18,046 Speaker 1: Check out lifeaudio.com. 632 00:35:16,846 --> 00:35:21,266 Speaker 2: For dozens of other faith-related podcasts about prayer, Bible study, 633 00:35:21,386 --> 00:35:24,636 Speaker 2: and more. Remember, you don't have to come from a 634 00:35:24,716 --> 00:35:26,216 Speaker 2: happy home to create one. 635 00:35:26,696 --> 00:35:28,776 Speaker 1: You too can have a happy home.