1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: Life audio. 2 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 2: David Goliath is my favorite story. Many people are not 3 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 2: aware that there's a significant controversy about who actually killed Goliath. 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 1: The part that we all know about is that David 5 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: has a sling on this first shot and slays the 6 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: giant and then cuts his head off. Now that's the 7 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: weird part of you saying that this is your favorite story, 8 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 1: but that. 9 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 2: Now this version that you described to me is from 10 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 2: First Samuel chapter seventeen. Is that the consistent story we 11 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 2: have in the biblical text. 12 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: This is the consistent story that we have in the 13 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: biblical text. What we can say is, in First Samuel 14 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: seventeen we have this story, but the issue lies elsewhere. 15 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 2: Comes into another passage and a seemingly different version of 16 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 2: the death of Goliath in Tewod Samuel twenty one to nineteen. 17 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: It's like a contradiction. It looks like there's something else 18 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: going on here. 19 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 2: So the story he's read for Samuel seventeen says, it's David. 20 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 2: Now we've got somebody else here, el Hanan, who kills him? 21 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 2: What's going on? The story of David and Glyth is 22 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 2: one of the most well known and beloved stories in 23 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 2: the entire Bible. Many people are not aware that there's 24 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 2: a significant controversy about who actually killed Goliath. Here to 25 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:20,119 Speaker 2: help make sense of it is my colleague, my friend, 26 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 2: Old Testament professor, doctor Dominic Hernandez. You're ready to rock 27 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 2: and roll. 28 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:27,320 Speaker 1: I'm ready, Sean. Thank you for having me. I really 29 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: appreciate it. 30 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, this is an issue I've been trying 31 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 2: to make sense of myself because David Golyath is my 32 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 2: favorite story. I love it. As a kid, I'd listened 33 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 2: to this record over and over again, a story about 34 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 2: Dave Glyth. It's captured my heart. So when textual challenges 35 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 2: come up like this, I want to know it myself. 36 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 2: You're my Old Testament guy, So let's dive in and 37 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 2: take a look at this row. All right, So before 38 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 2: we get to the surprising debate about the death of Goliath, 39 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 2: can you remind us of the basic details of the 40 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 2: story and the traditional belief about how Goliath died. 41 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: So here are the basic details. The Israelites and the 42 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: Philistines are perpetual enemies, and this particular chapter outlines a 43 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: battle between the Philistines on One Hill and the Valley 44 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: of Ella. And I'm sorry close to the Valley of Ella, 45 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: and the Israelites on another hill, and down between those 46 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 1: hills is the Valley of Ella. All right. So David 47 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: is sent out by his father. He's the youngest of 48 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: the brothers that he has, and he's sent out by 49 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: his father to go take provisions to his brother his 50 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: brothers plural, who are fighting in Saul's army, who was 51 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: the king of Israel at that time. And while David 52 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: is out taking provisions to his brothers, he hears Goliath, 53 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 1: the Philistine giant, insulting the Israelites. And David hears this, 54 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: and he says, who is this uncircumcised Philisine that is, 55 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,519 Speaker 1: who is this non Israelite Circumcision was an Israelite thing, right, 56 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: Who is this non Israelite that's talking smack about our 57 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: people and by way of that, our God. And so 58 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: he decides that he is going to fight this giant, 59 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,359 Speaker 1: and also that there's going to be certain provisions given 60 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 1: to him if he could beat the giant. Right, So 61 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: he goes out and he decides that he's going to 62 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 1: fight this giant. And the part that we all know 63 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: about is that David has a sling and he puts 64 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: and on this first shot, he dramatically kills the giant, 65 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: slays the giant, and then cuts his head off decapitates him. 66 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: Now that's the weird part of you saying that this 67 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: is your favorite story, But that is what the Biblical 68 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: text tells us. So it's in this particular text in Samuel, 69 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: it's David who kills a giant named Goliath, who was 70 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: a Philistine that would perpetually insult the Israelites and by 71 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: way of that their God. 72 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 2: Excellent summary, and of course what Disraeli highlights is the 73 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 2: tension between David and Saul. David starts to rise to promence, 74 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 2: Saul becomes jealous, eventually replaces him as king. Now, this 75 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 2: version that you described to me is from First Samuel, 76 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 2: chapter seventeen. Is this the consistent version we have in 77 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 2: ancient texts if we go to the Dead Sea scrolls, 78 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 2: mastero etic texts, septuagen et cetera. Is there consistency. There 79 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 2: might be some differences in some of the details, but 80 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 2: as a whole, the way to describe that is that 81 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 2: the consistent story we have in the Biblical text. 82 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: This is the consistent story that we have in the 83 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: Biblical text. Though we're about to move into some things 84 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 1: that are gapped in, for example, the Samuel text from 85 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 1: the Dead Sea Scroll. So what we can say is, 86 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 1: in First Samuel seventeen we have this story, but the 87 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: issue lies elsewhere. 88 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 2: Okay, good, So the debate is not about understanding. For 89 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 2: Samuel seventeen, when it comes to the death of Goliath, 90 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 2: comes into another passage and a seemingly different version of 91 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 2: the death of Goliath in Second Samuel twenty one to nineteen. 92 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 2: So I'll go and read a forest and I'll want 93 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 2: you to kind of explain why this matters. It says, 94 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,119 Speaker 2: and there was again war with the Philistines at gob 95 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 2: and el Hanan, the son of Jeiri Oregon. And you 96 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 2: can correct all of my mispronunciations, please, the BETHLEHEMI struck 97 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 2: down Goliath, the gets tight, the shaft of whose spear 98 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 2: was like a weaver's beam. So the story he's read 99 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 2: for sam With seventeen says it's David. Now we've got 100 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:20,359 Speaker 2: somebody else here, Elhanan, who kills him. What's going on? 101 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, So this is a wonderful issue to talk about, 102 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: or this particular verse is a good starting point to 103 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 1: talk about several major issues that we need to confront 104 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 1: as people who love the Bible. Right, First of all, 105 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 1: many of us look at this and think, theologically, oh 106 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 1: my gosh, like what if this is what is this 107 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 1: verse saying about God's word? Theologically, if it's like a contradiction, 108 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: it looks like there's something else going on here. Right, 109 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 1: So that's where we start. But then there are other 110 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: ways that we can work through this, not by simple 111 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: not by simply pop apologetic saying oh, this is what's 112 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: happening or that's what's happening. We're not that way, but 113 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: actually by analyzing and going through what we call lower 114 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,359 Speaker 1: criticism or textual criticism. So I'll just pause here for 115 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,720 Speaker 1: a second and say the following. I totally understand the 116 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: knee jerk reaction against using the word criticism and Bible together, 117 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: like we are criticizing the Bible. But that's not what 118 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: all criticisms of a text mean. What textual criticism at 119 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:27,799 Speaker 1: what's frequently called low or used to be called lower 120 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: criticism as opposed to higher criticism. What lower criticism refers 121 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: to is that we are studying the versions that we 122 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 1: have to get back to the putative original form. That's 123 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: what we want, we all want to get back to 124 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: as much of an original form as possible because we 125 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: don't have the originals. So people like me and you 126 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 1: and others Biblicists, we look at the text that we 127 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,840 Speaker 1: have and we try to do our best based upon 128 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: what we have, based upon what we know about humanity, 129 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: what we know about describal activity, based upon all of 130 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 1: these factors, to try to get back to what could 131 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: be the most original text. Now, since we have different 132 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: Biblical books written by different people in different periods of time, 133 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: and then they were copied, sometimes we actually come across 134 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: an issue like this where we're like, hold up a second, 135 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: that doesn't seem to sound like what I read maybe earlier. 136 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: So is there a text critical issue here? That is, 137 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: is there an issue with the wording and the text 138 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: in this case the Hebrew, maybe some of the Greek, 139 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: or maybe some of the other versions that might help 140 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: us work through what a scribe received and just copied. 141 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: And in this case, yeah, I think that that's the 142 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: way to go. So wait, did I answer yeah? You? No? No, 143 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: you did? I went a couple of different ways there. 144 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 2: No, that's really helpful. So the tension is between first 145 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 2: Samuel seventeen, Goliath is killed by David, and then we 146 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:56,559 Speaker 2: have another book, Second Samuel twenty one, which is years later. 147 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 2: David is now king, and the story is told that 148 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 2: it's Elan that's who strikes down Goliath, and it says 149 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 2: the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver's beam. 150 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 2: So this isn't somebody else named Goliath. So in the 151 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 2: biblical text there at least appears to be attention, appears 152 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 2: to be a contradiction. How do we make sense of this? 153 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: Now? 154 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 2: Before going for there's one other verse that just adds 155 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 2: to the complexity of this. First Chronicles twenty verse five says, 156 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 2: and there was again war with the Philistines, and Elhanan, 157 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 2: the son of jay R, struck down loch Me, the 158 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 2: brother of Goliath. The get tight, the shaft of whose 159 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 2: spear was like a weaver's beam. So now it seems 160 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 2: like we have three accounts of what happens here. So 161 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 2: before we jump in, like where are we at looking 162 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 2: at this issue? The complexity of it? 163 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: Good, thank you, That's where I was going before. I 164 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: just started to talk a lot about textual groups. I love. 165 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: So there's a couple of different types of criticisms as 166 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: we were just talking about. Those that would that are 167 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,079 Speaker 1: more into what we call higher criticism would immediately look 168 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: at these three sources or three verses and say, oh, 169 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 1: there might be different sources for these three accounts. Now, 170 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: we're not totally against there being sources and compiled books 171 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: in the Bible. Obviously Proverbs is compiled, Pums is compiled, 172 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: there are other sections of the Bible that we know 173 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: are compiled. Not against that. There could be different hands 174 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: in different books that don't have authors, like we don't 175 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: know exactly who wrote Chronicles. We're not totally against that. 176 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: But we do have a text, a traditional text that 177 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:35,439 Speaker 1: was passed down to us. So we want to say, 178 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: we want to exhaust the options that we have in 179 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: the traditional text that's been passed down to us to 180 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: try to figure out what's going on here. And I 181 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: think that we can do this by looking at what 182 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 1: the text says and how it could have been maybe 183 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 1: a little bit jumbled by the scribes of the massoretic text, 184 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:55,079 Speaker 1: the particular masteroretic texts that we have that we get 185 00:09:55,080 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: our Old Testament from. So here's the issue. It seems 186 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:05,559 Speaker 1: that the scribe confused a couple of words between the 187 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: second Samuel account and the first Chronicles account. Now what 188 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,679 Speaker 1: do I mean by that? It's reasonable to assume that 189 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: Samuel is an earlier book. We don't know exactly who 190 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: wrote Samuel, but much of Samuel's repeated, as we know 191 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: in First Chronicles, and so it's reasonable to assume that Chronicles. 192 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: I'm sorry that Samuel was the prior book. We get 193 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: to Chronicles and we're like, okay, there was probably a tradition, 194 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: maybe even already a written tradition of Samuel by the chronicler, 195 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 1: the person that we don't know who wrote it, right, 196 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:44,319 Speaker 1: so the chronicler, So there was probably a written tradition. Now, 197 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: by recognizing that there was probably a written tradition, we 198 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: go back to the Hebrew and we see if there's 199 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: a couple of things that could potentially be confused in 200 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: the Hebrew orthography, so the way of writing, and the 201 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,319 Speaker 1: answer to that is there's a couple of things that 202 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 1: may have been confused by the chronicler from the Samuel passage. 203 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: So I just will bring up now that there's a 204 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: really good article. 205 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,320 Speaker 2: Before you read this, let me just I want to 206 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 2: clarify for like our viewers and listeners that when many 207 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 2: people in higher criticisms see these differences, the automatic assumption 208 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 2: is there's different sources weighing into Samuel versus chronicles. And 209 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 2: you're saying, we don't want to shut that down, but 210 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 2: we don't want to assume it. Is there a way 211 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 2: to reconcile this internally by looking at the books that 212 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,559 Speaker 2: we have that make sense of it before we assume 213 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 2: that there's different sources going into this. And instead of 214 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 2: looking at like the context and saying, well, maybe this 215 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 2: is a different Goliath, you're saying the way this was 216 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 2: copied textually gives us clues to make sense of the differences. 217 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 2: That's a fair summary. 218 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: That's an excellent summary. Why didn't I say like that, 219 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: that's a great summary. You know, but this is what 220 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: I do for a living. I talk about these things, 221 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:01,959 Speaker 1: so sometimes I talk about them a little. Yeah, but 222 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: this is that. That's a great summary. Okay. Now now 223 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: just to add on to that summary, I want to 224 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 1: emphasize I don't want to shut down the idea that 225 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: there may be different contributors some places in the Bible. 226 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: But what I do want to what I'm what I'm 227 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: what I'm saying when I'm admitting is that methodologically, I'm 228 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 1: making a decision here, and I'm saying, let's see if 229 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:23,679 Speaker 1: the text that we have, if let's see if we 230 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 1: can reconcile internally with the text that we have with 231 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: the three texts that you made up and that you 232 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: brought up. Better stated, make them up with the three 233 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: texts that you brought up. And I think that there's 234 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: a way of doing it now. I mentioned the the 235 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: word orthography, and what I'm really making reference to is 236 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: how words were written down right. So scribes obviously wrote 237 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: with a hand a quill, and they wrote right, and 238 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: sometimes those scribes confuse certain things. Scribes hardly ever made 239 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:59,839 Speaker 1: intentional emendations to texts, but sometimes they made acts a 240 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,199 Speaker 1: dental changes to texts. And I think that that might 241 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: be what we see we're seeing here, and I think 242 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: that that's now it's time to bring up this article. 243 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 2: Okay, so tell me what what's going on in this art. 244 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: So so this is a very good article by Casper's 245 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:15,679 Speaker 1: Ozolins and who's a professor at Southern Seminar where you 246 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,679 Speaker 1: did your did yes exactly, and uh, this is an 247 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: abbreviated version that's on texting the text and canon sight. 248 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: It's a very good abbreviated version of another article that's 249 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: a more academic article that he published in Vitu Testamentum, 250 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 1: which is a big that's a that's a big deal 251 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: in our field. It's a good journal, it's a top 252 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,959 Speaker 1: ranked journal. And and he and some of the things 253 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: that I'm going to put forward now he puts forward 254 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 1: in in a in a this is a nine page article, 255 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: not that long, but in a concise way as well, 256 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: and in a popular level way as well. So what 257 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: what what I would say some of this is uh 258 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: what Cosper says as well. What I would say is 259 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: that we can look at a couple of words in 260 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: the Chronicles text and say, oh, that was written later 261 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: and that may have been confused from the Samuel text. Right. 262 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: So let me just give you an example. Oh, first, 263 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: I want to I want to do us a favor. Here. 264 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: I teach a course called Critical Issues in the Study 265 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: of the Old Testament, where the whole course is dedicated 266 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: to issues like this. So we talk about the pentituc 267 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: composition of the Pentatoo, composition of Isaiah, composition of Daniel, 268 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: composition of Zachariah. We work through these issues. And one 269 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: of the things that I say at the beginning of 270 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: that class, and it's cross listed as an apologetics class, 271 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: one of the things that I say at the beginning 272 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: of that class, and I want you to hear me 273 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: out here, I want you to get mad at me, 274 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: is that this is not a course in pop apologetics. 275 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: We're not just going to say the right thing and 276 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: forget about the issues. Sometimes these issues. We got to 277 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: put in the hard work to work through some of 278 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: these issues. Right, So even apologists, real apologists are not 279 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: into pop apologetics. We can't just say the same thing 280 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: and pretend that this just goes away. Sometimes we look 281 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: at these issues and we're like, oh, they're they're real issues. 282 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: So like, let me just read the niv's rendering of this. 283 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: This is Tewod Samuel twenty one to nineteen. And here's 284 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:16,239 Speaker 1: what the NIV does. In another battle with the Philistines 285 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: at gulb el Hanan's son of yet ear Now, it 286 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: takes out the Orgeme part. Here the Hebrew text has Orgeme, 287 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: so ben it has yet Ear or Geeme. The NIV 288 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 1: takes that out, and then it says the Bethelhemite killed 289 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: the brother of and now it adds the brother of Goliath, 290 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: the Gettite, who had a spear with a chef like 291 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: a weaver's rod. So the reason why I bring up 292 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: the pap apologetics thing here is because what the NIV 293 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: has done here, and by the way, I really like 294 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: the NIV. I read it all the time. But what 295 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: it's done is it's it's it's tried to reconcile the 296 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: issues for us in that verse. 297 00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:01,119 Speaker 2: Okay, did you read the Chronicles passage or you read. 298 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: Second Samuel Oh? 299 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 2: Okay, so potentially what was in Second Chronicles exactly added 300 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 2: in for us and tried. Okay, it did, got it? 301 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: So now we can talk about why the why the 302 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: why the translators of the NIV did that. Now, by 303 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: the way, I reiterate, I read the NIV all the time. 304 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: I like the n IV, I read the ESV and IV. 305 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: I read lots of different versions. Okay, so it's not 306 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: I'm not version hating here. But as I was studying 307 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: for this, I came across the fact that there is 308 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: already a version that does the pop apologetics for us. 309 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: It tries to reconcile it for us. So the issue 310 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: here ends up being there ends up being an issue. 311 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 1: Oh Geme. Now o Geme means weavers, so so this 312 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: shows up at the end of the verse the weavers 313 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: rod and so it's likely it's likely that the second 314 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: mentioning of oh Geme is a copying mistake. That is, 315 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: it seems that it was copied twice and it should 316 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: have only been there once at the end of the verse. 317 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: That makes total sense to people that study textual criticism. 318 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: Why is weavers showing up next to this name. That 319 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,120 Speaker 1: doesn't seem to make sense it it may have been 320 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: accidentally copied twice. 321 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 2: That's reasonable, that's one. 322 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: Of the that's one of the things. So maybe when 323 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: we have the version that say, let's see let's see 324 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: the versions that say yah reh Orgime, so this is 325 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: the ESV, that particular version should probably just say yah 326 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 1: Ear or yah Ur. So he is the Elkhanan is 327 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: the son of yah Ear or yah Ur, which there's 328 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: also an issue with the name, but we don't need 329 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: to get into that. The Bethelhemite, now, let's talk about 330 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:43,120 Speaker 1: the Bethelhemite here. That's all show an issue because one 331 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: of the versions say that is the first Chronicles twenty 332 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: five twenty verse five says that elk Hanan killed Yai, 333 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: son of Yair, killed Lahmi. That's that's what it's. It's 334 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: killed a person named Lahmi, or that is, Elkhanan killed 335 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 1: a person in Ahmi. Here's the issue. The Bethlahemite in 336 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: Hebrew is Bete Lachmi. The beth Lahemite Bete Lahmi or 337 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: bete ha Lachmi is better stated. Right, So in Hebrew 338 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: has a direct object indicator that's not translatable. Whenever you 339 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: see the word et in Hebrew, the next word is 340 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 1: the direct object. So here we have in the in 341 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 1: the Samuel passage, we have the second Samuel twenty one, 342 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: verse nineteen that el Hanani killed the Bette Lahmi. He 343 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: struck down goleat Eliath. But in the first chronicle version 344 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: we have he struck down Ete Lachmi, which sounds a 345 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: lot like Bete Lachmi. So there could be and even 346 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: orthographically it could it could. It could look very similar. 347 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: There's a there's a one consonant difference. Now, if you 348 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 1: followed all that, you see why this is not just 349 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 1: a pop apologetic issue, right, like you gotta get it, 350 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: gotta dig into it. A little bit. You gotta figure 351 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 1: out what's what's going on? And and and textually, if 352 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: you were to put these texts next to each other 353 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: in Hebrew, you would see or and you were to 354 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 1: read them out loud, you were to see, oh better, Lachmi. 355 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: They sound similar. Maybe the scribe, maybe the chronicle scribe 356 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: uh thought Lachmi was a person and put it which 357 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: sounds very much like bet and actually shares one consonant 358 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: with Bet. Maybe that person was it Lachmi? That is it? 359 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,360 Speaker 1: And then the name Lachmi instead of betelach Me, which 360 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: actually says that, now what's from Bethlehem? 361 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 2: Hence the bethelhem I translation makes more. 362 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: That translation does make it does make more sense. 363 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 2: Yes, oh my goodness. Okay, so let me let me 364 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 2: take a step back and try to explain for people 365 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 2: what's going on. What you describe pop apologetics is maybe 366 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 2: just a quick way of going, oh, here's an easy 367 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 2: way to reconcile and move on and not recognize the 368 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 2: complexity underlying textual criticism and tradition and mistakes that are made. 369 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:13,360 Speaker 2: And we shouldn't be afraid of leaning into these difficult issues. 370 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 2: Once all said, none, really what you're doing and Casper 371 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 2: does in this is say, we've got to make our 372 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 2: best guess. We've got to come up with a reasonable 373 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 2: explanation for why one seems to say ele Hannon killed him, 374 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 2: one seems to say it was Goliath. And the best guess, 375 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 2: you think is to go back to the Hebrew language 376 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 2: itself and think there's not an intentional but an accidental 377 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 2: change in one or two places shifts the meaning. And 378 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 2: NIV does that work for us, and adds the brother. 379 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 1: That yeah, and yeah, that's a great summary. And I 380 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: would say that, you know, and I don't want anybody 381 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: getting mad at me. I read that IVY, I reiterate, 382 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: this is the third time I've said that, But but 383 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: what And I don't want anybody getting mad at me 384 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: about the pap apologetics thing. But what's important to note 385 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 1: is that there are some things that we encounter that 386 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 1: where you know, biblical issues that look like apparent contradictions, 387 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: where we can come up with a very quick answer. 388 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: We have the tools, like most people have the tools 389 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: to be able to come up with quick answers, and 390 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:22,199 Speaker 1: issues like this, sometimes they transcend the popular level tools, 391 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 1: and so we need to dig into that. And that's 392 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 1: what we do here at Talbot right, we help prepare 393 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: people to go to transcend and to transcend sort of 394 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: these popular level tools to be able to get into 395 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:38,400 Speaker 1: texts like this one and to form opinions without simply 396 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 1: going to commentaries. And sometimes we don't know exactly what 397 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 1: we're going to get in a commentary, if we don't 398 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: have the ability to be able to critique what the 399 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: commentary writer is writing about or how the commentary writer 400 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:52,920 Speaker 1: goes about solving issues. 401 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 2: Super helpful. Let me ask it this way. Some early 402 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 2: on you're saying, I'm open to different sources being behind 403 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 2: the different writings and different traditions, but maybe there's another 404 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:09,479 Speaker 2: way to address this, which is a more evangelical Christian 405 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 2: and maybe historically Christian way of approaching this, probably apart 406 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 2: from the higher criticism. The criticism might come back and say, okay, 407 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 2: doctor Dominic Hernandez Albo School of Theology professor, you're also 408 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 2: bringing your own biases and assuming that there's a way 409 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 2: to reconcile this, and it's the word of God and 410 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,479 Speaker 2: it's an errant what would you say to somebody who 411 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 2: had pushed back and saying you're making the same mistake, 412 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 2: but in the opposite. 413 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 1: Way, I would say it's not a mistake, and I'm 414 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: totally admitting it. See, that's the issue, right, that's one 415 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: of the things that makes us say, that's one of 416 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: the things that makes us evangelical. We admit what we 417 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: believe about the Bible when we study it. And so 418 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that we run from issues. There are issues. 419 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,880 Speaker 1: It means this is the reason why we have courses 420 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 1: like critical Issues in the study of the Old Testament. 421 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: We're not just preparing people to do these quick answers, 422 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: but we're digging into these real serious issues that have 423 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: that have been And when I say real serious, I 424 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:16,119 Speaker 1: mean genuinely serious issues that that that have that are 425 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: associated with the Bible and authorship, the historicity of certain issues, 426 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: certain things within the text. So I don't I don't think. 427 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: Here's the thing. Once we admit as much as we 428 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: can what we presuppose or suppose about the Bible, then 429 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 1: we can argue about which suppositions are more reasonable. It's 430 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: it's those that don't admit what they believe that then 431 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,880 Speaker 1: I think sometimes it's difficult to have conversations with those people. 432 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: And that's not just higher critics and that. 433 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 2: Could bet anybody else. 434 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: So hence the reason why I was like, don't don't 435 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: get freaked out by the word criticism here, because sometimes, 436 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: as evangelicals, believing that the Bible is the word of God, 437 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 1: when we hear a word like criticism, we go, wait, 438 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: wait a second. The word of God is perfect. It 439 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: is a shield of those who trust in him, right, 440 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:11,880 Speaker 1: that's one of the proverbs. We do that, and we're 441 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 1: not saying that God's word is imperfect. What we are 442 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 1: saying is we want to do our best to establish 443 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 1: texts that are the most original as possible, and in 444 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: order to do that, you have to dig into some 445 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 1: of these issues that are that look like apparent contradictions. 446 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 2: So you recently did a presentation on the Dead Sea Scrolls, 447 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 2: I believe at the was it the Nixon Library or 448 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 2: Reagan Library. 449 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: I did two and that was most excellent. It was 450 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,880 Speaker 1: there was a whole whole whole section of the Dead 451 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: Sea Scrolls. 452 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 2: There amazing from And I partly draw attention to that 453 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 2: because you've done work in the Dead Sea Scrolls. So 454 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 2: on this issue, does the Dead Sea Scrolls help reconcile 455 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 2: it at all? 456 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: It doesn't, as Caspers points out there is a gap 457 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: here in the Dead Sea Scrolls, and so the Dead 458 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:01,360 Speaker 1: Sea Scrolls doesn't really help. 459 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 2: All the copies are in First Samuel seventeen. There's a 460 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:04,680 Speaker 2: gap on. 461 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, in this particular issue, there's a gap. There isn't 462 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,880 Speaker 1: a We don't have a section of the Dead Sea 463 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,640 Speaker 1: Scrolls that's going to help us with this issue because 464 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: there's a gap in this issue. Okay, so you've a 465 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: gap in this area, in. 466 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 2: This area, so obviously you've studied the Old Testament in 467 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 2: more depth in the original language than I have. This 468 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 2: on its surface can be jarring to people, but I 469 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 2: think you've offered a plause for explanation for it. Where 470 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 2: would you place this on some of the difficulties in 471 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 2: the Old Testament? Is this mid range? Is this an 472 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,400 Speaker 2: easier one? Is this one of the harder ones? Where 473 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 2: would you kind of place it in comparison with some 474 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 2: of the other challenges of the thirty nine books of 475 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 2: the Old Testament. 476 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: Oh, if you're read the NIV, there's no issue here. 477 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 1: But I'll say those that are interested in reading the 478 00:25:55,520 --> 00:26:00,239 Speaker 1: entirety of the Bible will eventually come across issues like this. Sure, Now, 479 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: this is a historic issue. And many times, many times 480 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 1: some of the historical issues can be explained by way 481 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 1: of what the author is doing or striving to do 482 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: for the particular audience that the author is writing for. So, 483 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: for example, the chronicler that came late, some scholars would 484 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:26,360 Speaker 1: say the chronicler is just trying to change. The chronicler 485 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: is changing this text in order to make it more 486 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 1: reasonable for the audience that the chronicler is writing to later. 487 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 1: And sometimes that's one way of looking at it. But 488 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: what I would say is in terms of, like how 489 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: serious of a problem this is. This is not one 490 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: of those issues that we look at and go, this 491 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: is faith changing for me? Like I agree, did David 492 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: kill Goliath? Oh? Yeah? First, you know, for Samuel says 493 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: he did. Wait, hold on a second, was it Golias 494 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: brother that's died? Like that was like lachmu is that 495 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,400 Speaker 1: the name? Are there two scenarios? 496 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 2: Like? 497 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 1: There are different ways of thinking through this that aren't 498 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,120 Speaker 1: like Jesus didn't rise from the dead, you know, the right. 499 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 1: So I'm not sure if that's the type of answer 500 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: you're looking for. But what we need to do as 501 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,159 Speaker 1: we go through these particular issues is see how close 502 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: this is to a fundamental of the faith. And that's 503 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: why I bring up the resurrection. Obviously, we believe that 504 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: God's word as it was given is an expression of 505 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 1: God's self, and so we don't we don't believe that 506 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: there's going to be these mistakes and these errors, but 507 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: we also believe it a very human side of transmission. 508 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: And if we admit the human side, an issue like 509 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 1: this is not nearly as much of an issue as 510 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: an evangelist saying that Jesus potentially didn't rise from the dead. 511 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 2: That's fair, and you're saying you're not saying the huge 512 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,640 Speaker 2: inside of inspiration. You're standing the human side of transmission. 513 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,679 Speaker 2: And so this story, you know, roughly a thousand BC, 514 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 2: is roughly where we would place it. There's three thousand 515 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 2: years of transmission. The very fact that we have some 516 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 2: of the texts line up so closely and have some 517 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 2: of these smaller differences, I think it's pretty remarkable, all 518 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 2: things considered. 519 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 1: But I'm with you. 520 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 2: At least I would phrase it this way. We do 521 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 2: a disservice to people when we act as if the 522 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:32,160 Speaker 2: Bible just floated down from Heaven and there's not textual 523 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:37,239 Speaker 2: questions totally there are, let's invite them, let's look at them. 524 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 2: And I don't think anything's wrong here with saying, hey, 525 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 2: we don't know exactly what happened, but we can construct 526 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 2: and try to make sense of a reasonable explanation. I 527 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 2: think you've laid one out that's sufficient. So how confident 528 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 2: are you if I said, Dominic, you're probably not a 529 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 2: betting man. You can correct me if I'm wrong. You 530 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 2: can bet on this. You don't even have to give 531 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 2: me number. But how confident are you in this reconstruction 532 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 2: compared to other ways to reconcile this text? 533 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 1: Well, every reconstruction needs to be and maybe we shouldn't 534 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: say reconstruction because that might scare some people as well 535 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: in terms of like we we're not reconstructing the biblical text. 536 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: What we're trying to do is we're trying to look 537 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 1: and see if there is a if there is a 538 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: plausible reason as to why these verses look like they 539 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 1: contradict each other. So maybe a little bit less reconstruction, 540 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: much more just sort of putting a puzzle together. And 541 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 1: I like to look at it in that sense that 542 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: makes sense, And everybody loves to kind of figure out. 543 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: Everybody likes to put in the last piece of the puzzle. 544 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: So let's use a puzzle as an analogy. If that's okay, 545 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: I would say this, every time that we put a 546 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: puzzle together like this, we can generally get the big picture. 547 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: So if it's a thousand piece puzzle, we're getting like 548 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 1: nine hundred pieces and we see the panorama. But we 549 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: have to be humble and leave open other opportunities, other 550 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: potential explanations. By the way, the first step to being 551 00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: a good Bible reader, if you believe it's the very 552 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: word of God, is humility, is thinking through, you know, 553 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: recognizing our own limitations. And so I would say, there 554 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: there is a plausible explanation for this. There could be others, 555 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 1: but I would bet on the fact that there is 556 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 1: a you're ready for this, I would bet on the 557 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 1: fact that there is a plausible explanation of this that 558 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: holds up the historicity. And first Samuel seventeen hold on 559 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: a second holds up the historicity, but still recognizes that 560 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: the author of for Samuel seventeen is writing for an 561 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: audience and striving to write for striving to communicate theological 562 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: themes and purposes through the narrator's writing or the narrators 563 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: that makes sense. So I'm none of the Bible, so 564 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: I'm saying I'm using the word historicity. None of the 565 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: Bible is written exclusively for history. So what we have 566 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 1: in for Samuel seventeen, I would say is historical, and 567 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: we have a reason. I would bet on a reasonable, 568 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: reasonable solution to holding up that historicity. But it's not 569 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: exclusively historic. That's fair. 570 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, so humor me on this one doesn't 571 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 2: have to be perfect. I got you, how old are 572 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 2: your kids? 573 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: By the way, my son is fourteen and my daughter 574 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: is nine. 575 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 2: Perfect. So your fourteen year old son comes up to 576 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 2: you and goes, dada, I was reading the Old Testament, 577 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 2: and first Samuel seventeen says that David killed Goliath, but 578 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 2: second Samuel twenty one says it was Elhanan. And you're 579 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 2: in the car, and you got like ninety seconds or 580 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 2: two minutes to explain your fourteen year old son. And 581 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 2: you can't say we'll talk about this at dinner. What 582 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 2: would be I'm forcing you, your pop apologist, respond to it. 583 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: In that setting. That's funny. A couple of things about 584 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: my son. First of all, he wouldn't ever ask this question. 585 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: So whatever, no, no, So it's this. This is not 586 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: just filler. This is a very good question that I 587 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: think actually brings it. It should intentionally open a can 588 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 1: of worms for us, because if we give a quick 589 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: response in the car certain, like as certain as we 590 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: are of the resurrection, this could potentially lead to issues 591 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: when younger people realize that we need to nuance things. 592 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: So I struggle with this because I always, even in 593 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: a minute or two, I want to leave open some 594 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 1: nuances that makes like the ability to nuance. So I 595 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 1: would say Boppy. That's his nickname. He's little Boppy. Now 596 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: pretty soon he'll be big Boppy. But I say Boppy 597 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: sometimes in the Bible, because of how the Bible was written, 598 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: there are these types, There are these issues like this. 599 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: What we can do is you ready for me? We 600 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: can go and look at the Hebrew later. Because my 601 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: son reads heever pretty well. Wow, but well he went 602 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: to school in Israel for a couple of years, and 603 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: his big seber pretty well and read sever pretty well. 604 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: But in all seriousness, and I would say, it looks 605 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: like first Samuel is telling a historical account. The other 606 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: accounts that we see they need to be reconciled with 607 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: what we see in First Samuel, which is probably an 608 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: earlier text. So what we'll do later on, if I 609 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 1: can is out. I'll show you a couple of words 610 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: that may have been mistaken, and we'll will work from 611 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: there to a potential better solution. I guess you could 612 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: say I love it. That's fair. 613 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 2: Here's as I'm thinking about this sound spot. I think 614 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 2: I would say to my son, and my son, you've 615 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 2: had him in class. He's twenty one years old, but 616 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,960 Speaker 2: I've know the son who's thirteen, close to the age yours. 617 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 2: I'd say, son, first off, I love that you're reading 618 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 2: the Bible, yeah, and asking these questions asking good for you, 619 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 2: I say, you're right on the surface, there's a tension. 620 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 2: What seems to be a different story here. So we 621 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 2: asked the question, what best explains it the traditional stories. 622 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 2: You're right is that David killed Goliath. So why when 623 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 2: we go to Second Samuel do we have a difference. 624 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 2: I think what happened is when you closely in the 625 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 2: Hebrew text, some of the words are so close that 626 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 2: a simple change mistake accidentally could communicate that we're not 627 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 2: talking about the Goliath himself, but his brother who did it? 628 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 2: We can look at the Hebrew later, but I think 629 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,800 Speaker 2: that best probably explains it, which is why the NIV 630 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 2: translates it the way that it does. 631 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:28,360 Speaker 1: Now, that's no, that's an excellent response, and you have 632 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: a twenty one year old so you clearly have some 633 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,840 Speaker 1: experience with this. But but what I will say is 634 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 1: I love that response, and also things that we haven't 635 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,920 Speaker 1: gotten gone over, and maybe we'll do this some other time. 636 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 1: But there are a couple of other potential explanations, right, 637 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 1: and so it's important to let people know as we 638 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 1: work through this that sometimes there are issues they can 639 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: be nuanced. There could be a couple of reasonable explanations. 640 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 1: So for example, Ah the word ah brother, so in 641 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:04,319 Speaker 1: one version it's brother brother of Ahi. It looks very 642 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,879 Speaker 1: much like it, which is the direct object marker. Again, 643 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,799 Speaker 1: so those two words may have been also maybe maybe 644 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,359 Speaker 1: conflated or and by the way, they look a lot alike. 645 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 1: So you have Olif Freht and Alif Tav they look 646 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,920 Speaker 1: very similar, right, So for those people that know Hebrew right, 647 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:26,680 Speaker 1: Alift and Alifa they look very very similar. So there's 648 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 1: an issue with that that cuspers also brings up in 649 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: his in his very good article that I would recommend 650 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 1: if you're interested in in in a little bit more. 651 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 1: One thing I want to say that I think is 652 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 1: very important for those people asking questions, that is, reading 653 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 1: the Bible and asking these types of questions, is, by 654 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,439 Speaker 1: no stretch of the imagination, a lack of faith. Amen, Yeah, 655 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 1: it's not. It isn't it's which is I think why 656 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: you were saying you would compliment your child, right, It 657 00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 1: means you're a close reader. It means you're picking up 658 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,439 Speaker 1: on some of these things. And frequently, when you read 659 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,280 Speaker 1: the Bible and you pick up on some of these issues, 660 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 1: frequently there is a relatively quick way to respond to things. 661 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 1: Because people have been reading these texts for so many years, 662 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:17,719 Speaker 1: you're not the first one to think of some of 663 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: these things. The introduction of the Dead Sea Scrolls changes 664 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 1: things a little bit. But I'll just say this copy 665 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 1: of the Hebrew Bible that I have here, as you 666 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,239 Speaker 1: can see, let's see this copy of the Hebrew Bible. 667 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 1: It's all torn up. I need to get it rebound. 668 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,400 Speaker 1: This copy of the Hebrew Bible comes from a manuscript 669 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: that comes from one thousand and eight or one thousand 670 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 1: and nine a d. Which means that and the Old 671 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 1: Testament Old Testament is written. This top text is just 672 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 1: one text. It's called the Massoretic Text and the Biblio 673 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 1: Hearbrek a Stuttgartensia. It was edited in Stute Gott. It 674 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 1: really is just one text with the notes of editors 675 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 1: at the bottom. So what we do in passages like 676 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: this is we look at what the what the text 677 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,359 Speaker 1: says here the text that's only about a thousand years old, 678 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: and we compare it to some of the notes at 679 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 1: the bottom. Okay, we have a text that's one thousand 680 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 1: years old but records texts from over a thousand years 681 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: before that. Of course, there's gonna be an issue or 682 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: two or three like this. There's more than two or 683 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 1: three issues, but you get the point. Noticing these types 684 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,920 Speaker 1: of issues means that you're reading that text well. But also, 685 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: let's give this the benefit of the doubt. This is 686 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 1: a later text, one complete text. There's gonna be notes. 687 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 1: Let's look at the notes. Let's see what's going on. 688 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 1: Let's try to start here first with what the Bible says, 689 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,279 Speaker 1: even some of the textual issues. Let's try to start 690 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 1: there first, instead of going maybe outside of the Bible 691 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 1: and positing that there were other sources that contributed to 692 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 1: really a historical an event that we consider to be historical. 693 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:52,800 Speaker 1: I love it. 694 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 2: And the reason I said that to my son is 695 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:56,360 Speaker 2: allm to know. I'm not afraid of these questions. So 696 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,879 Speaker 2: be a careful reader and let's go to the text. 697 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 2: I do want to amend, Miami, it's or the last 698 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,239 Speaker 2: thing I'd say to my son is not We'll look 699 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,799 Speaker 2: at the Hebrew. I'm gonna call my man dominic. Yeah, 700 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,160 Speaker 2: give me ten minutes to explain it. By the way, 701 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 2: I do have one rule that guests cannot dress better 702 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,879 Speaker 2: than I am, and you just blew that rule out 703 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 2: of the water. You just cooler than I don't know 704 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 2: about that. You're looking sharp, man. Thanks for the work 705 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,440 Speaker 2: to prep on this so interesting. I learned a ton 706 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 2: myself and the viewers and listeners. Let me know, this 707 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 2: is a little bit more of a nuanced deep dive 708 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,440 Speaker 2: on a particular topic than you often hear in this channel. 709 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,520 Speaker 2: Is this helpful? Is this interesting? Do you want more 710 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,800 Speaker 2: of these kind of deep dives? Give me your honest feedback, 711 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,359 Speaker 2: and uh, we'll try to come minister to you. We'd 712 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 2: love to have you come study with us at TABSCOO Theology, 713 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,840 Speaker 2: DOM Teaches and Old Testament I teach of Course and Apologetics. 714 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 2: And make sure you hit subscribe to this podcast in 715 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:54,800 Speaker 2: this YouTube channel. We have some other shows on archaeology 716 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,719 Speaker 2: and another one on Goliath coming up as well you 717 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,760 Speaker 2: won't want to miss. Thanks for tuning in. Hey friends, 718 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 2: if you enjoyed this show, please hit that fall button 719 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 2: on your podcast app. Most of you tuning in haven't 720 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:08,880 Speaker 2: done this yet and it makes a huge difference in 721 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 2: helping us reach and equip more people and build community. 722 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:16,760 Speaker 2: And please consider leaving a podcast review. Every review helps. 723 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,360 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Sean McDowell Show, brought to 724 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:23,080 Speaker 2: you by Talbot School of Theology at Biola University, where 725 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:27,120 Speaker 2: we have on campus and online programs and apologetic spiritual information, 726 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,919 Speaker 2: marriage and family, Bible, and so much more. We would 727 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,759 Speaker 2: love to train you to more effectively live, teach, and 728 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,640 Speaker 2: defend the Christian faith today and we will see you 729 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:37,400 Speaker 2: when the next episode drops.