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Speaker 1: My name is Charlie kirk I run the largest pro

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Speaker 4: All right, welcome back, everybody. We've been watching day four,

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Speaker 4: the preliminary hearing, and there is a lot of back

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Speaker 4: and forth going on about this video interview of Lance Twigs.

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Speaker 4: Remember there was a lot of back and forth whether

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Speaker 4: or not he should be subpoenad to be in the courtroom.

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Speaker 4: The judge ruled against that, so they were allowed to

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Speaker 4: use this video recording. Now there's reactions. They're taking a

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Speaker 4: quick break and apparently I think when we get back,

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Speaker 4: we're going to see the video.

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Speaker 5: We're going to finally see some video and we're going

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Speaker 5: to see I guess we're going to find out are

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Speaker 5: there any text messages they got that aren't what was

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Speaker 5: already actually seen by the public ten months ago we

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Speaker 5: saw a lot of French warfare back and forth. Yes,

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Speaker 5: over this it feels remarkable to me, Andrew, like, I

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Speaker 5: feel you could reduce all the arguments they make to

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Speaker 5: a couple paragraphs and you take read it and then

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Speaker 5: but it takes hours of back and forth.

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Speaker 4: I'm here to help us unpack some of the legal maneuvering.

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Speaker 4: Here is Wendy Patrick, attorney and partner Sam and Ash LLP.

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Speaker 4: She has been all over the Real America's Voice airways

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Speaker 4: covering this extensively. We're honored to have her here. Wendy,

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Speaker 4: Welcome to the show. What do you make of this

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Speaker 4: back and forth? I mean we're getting there's this case

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Speaker 4: Rideau or whatever. You know, My French is terrible too.

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Speaker 4: Actually so there's also they're mentioning estes. It looks like,

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Speaker 4: so please unpack what the details are being argued about here.

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Speaker 6: Definitely, I'll do so as a prosecutor for former defense attorney.

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Speaker 6: I appreciate the promotion. I've been making a lot more

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Speaker 6: money if I were with a bird. But you know,

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Speaker 6: your question is one that's on the minds of anybody

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Speaker 6: who's watching. Why is it taking so long to show

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Speaker 6: us the evidence? Here's that's the answer. You heard different

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Speaker 6: cases being cited by different sides, but factual dissimilarity carries

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Speaker 6: the day under facts like this. This is not a

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Speaker 6: case where something came out of the prison. It's not

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Speaker 6: a case that is detailing a confession under different circumstances

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Speaker 6: that maybe in one or both of those cases. This

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Speaker 6: is factually distinct. It's the logic and the rationale that

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Speaker 6: that judge had to consider. I'll bet he was up

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Speaker 6: all night thinking about this. Both lawyers probably were as well.

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Speaker 6: But this is the result that at least most people

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Speaker 6: hope for in terms of transparency, because we are going

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Speaker 6: to get to see the video now. We're also going

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Speaker 6: to have some redactions, but not nearly the extent that

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Speaker 6: we were worried we're going to be imposed yesterday. Remember

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Speaker 6: that was the big frustrating day where everybody went home thinking,

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Speaker 6: when are we going to get to actually see what

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Speaker 6: Tyler Robinson said to the roommate, what he said on

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Speaker 6: social media. And part of what the judge addressed today

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Speaker 6: is how much have they already seen? Because if it's

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Speaker 6: already out there, to say well now we're not going

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Speaker 6: to actually let it become evidence defeats the purpose. The

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Speaker 6: purpose is to ensure the defendant gets a fair trial,

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Speaker 6: making sure that when we get to trial, as we will,

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Speaker 6: this is going to be a bind over. When we

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Speaker 6: get to trial, the jury can only decide the defendant's

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Speaker 6: guilt or innocence based on admissible evidence, not based on

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Speaker 6: what they read online or heard commentators discussing. As soon

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Speaker 6: as we get back, we're going to actually make this

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Speaker 6: part of the public record so that everybody will be

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Speaker 6: able to use it come time for trial.

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Speaker 4: So what was actually agreed that it was going to

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Speaker 4: be redacted here, Wendy, I got lost in the weeds

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Speaker 4: trying to understand the arguments back and forth. But it

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Speaker 4: seems like, as you mentioned, we're going to get more

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Speaker 4: than we thought we might write that. There was a

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Speaker 4: I think a portion yesterday as I was reading it

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Speaker 4: was extensive. It was like those It was like about

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Speaker 4: half of it. What did you hear from that final argument?

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Speaker 4: Are that final ruling from the judge?

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Speaker 6: The final ruling from the judge here to focus on

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Speaker 6: private information of other people? When you redact something, and

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Speaker 6: we've been doing this for thirty years in criminal law,

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Speaker 6: you redact the personal information of people that were on

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Speaker 6: the scene, victims, families. Sometimes we even redact the names

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Speaker 6: of victims there Jane, no John Doe. But in this

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Speaker 6: particular document, apparently online, there was some reference to somebody else,

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Speaker 6: including personal identifying information. There is no problem with redacting that,

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Speaker 6: and there didn't appear to be an argument about that.

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Speaker 6: What I found stunning is that between today and yesterday,

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Speaker 6: as you mentioned, there appears to be less redactions asked for,

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Speaker 6: and that's going to satisfy everyone, most importantly Erica Kirk

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Speaker 6: and the Kirk family. You know, one of the lawyers said,

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Speaker 6: just now in court, why are we here if we're

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Speaker 6: not going to get to see the evidence. And it

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Speaker 6: appears that the judge overnight did read his case law,

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Speaker 6: did his due diligence, and is prepared to admit evidence.

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Speaker 6: Remember that must have been on his mind when he

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Speaker 6: ruled these proceedings could not only be public, but live streamed.

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Speaker 6: So this is in the vein of transparency.

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Speaker 3: Good.

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Speaker 4: So the judge ruled more in our favor. What now?

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Speaker 4: So okay, I'm just trying to make sense of this,

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Speaker 4: Wendy hear because essentially the as of today, the like

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Speaker 4: this morning, the reactions that the judge was suggesting were

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Speaker 4: from timestamps six fifty six to twenty twenty seven, twenty

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Speaker 4: seven point in eighteen seconds to twenty seven and twenty

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Speaker 4: five seconds, twenty eight and eleven to twenty eight and eighteen,

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Speaker 4: and then thirty two fifty five to thirty five forty eight.

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Speaker 4: I know it's a lot of numbers, but there was

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Speaker 4: big chunks that he was taking out. Am I understanding

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Speaker 4: you right that he put a lot of that back in.

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Speaker 6: That I don't know because I don't know the text

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Speaker 6: of the document. That's why we're all here. We want

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Speaker 6: to now you know, what does it say? What does

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Speaker 6: the footage show? What is it? What can we see?

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Speaker 6: What can we hear? The problem is we don't understand

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Speaker 6: what's in those sections. If we understood what was in

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Speaker 6: those sections, as opposed to the page with the personal

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Speaker 6: identifying information of the other person, would be in a

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Speaker 6: lot better position to assess whether we think is ruling

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Speaker 6: was right or wrong. But we don't know what's there,

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Speaker 6: and that characterizes the frustration inherent in a criminal trial

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Speaker 6: where you have friends, loved ones, people that were victimized,

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Speaker 6: people that are being re traumatized in the core room

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Speaker 6: honestly not having any idea what is redacted, because that's

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Speaker 6: the point of a redaction. But another good point has

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Speaker 6: been raised in court this morning that lit up social

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Speaker 6: media yesterday is what are they hiding now? The answer,

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Speaker 6: the easy answer to that legally would not be so

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Speaker 6: much it's being hidden, but being excluded in order to

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Speaker 6: protect the integrity of a conviction. If you have a

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Speaker 6: conviction that's based on evidence, that a higher court rule

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Speaker 6: should not have come into evidence. It gets reversed and

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Speaker 6: you have to do the whole thing over again, and

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Speaker 6: that means victims supporters being re traumatized all over again.

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Speaker 6: So we don't know exactly what's in all the portions

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Speaker 6: that are going to be redacted. It does seem, and I,

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Speaker 6: like you, have been trying to follow numbers and pages.

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Speaker 6: It does seem that perhaps there might be a more

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Speaker 6: of an inclination to show more of it after the

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Speaker 6: extended case law discussion than yesterday. But I even want

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Speaker 6: to watch and make sure that's true when this finally

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Speaker 6: comes to light after the break.

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Speaker 4: so it's a little bit unclear what we're actually gonna see.

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Speaker 4: It does sound like it's.

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Speaker 5: A lot of back and forth. They He really emphasized

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Speaker 5: the difference between the video which they obtained after the

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Speaker 5: arrest had been made versus these text messages and notes

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Speaker 5: and such. He's pointing. He pointed out, these are evidence.

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Speaker 5: They accumulated in the initial phase. They are supposed communications

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Speaker 5: from the defendant himself rather than the testimony a against him.

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Speaker 5: It sounds like there's literally Supreme Court cases distinguishing between

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Speaker 5: video and text.

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Speaker 7: It just seems like a nightmare. It makes me glad

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Speaker 7: I'm not a lawyer.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I exactly if. On that note, I have a

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Speaker 4: tweet from Richard Grenell here that I think is interesting.

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Speaker 4: He goes, I'm proudly not a lawyer. No offense. But

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Speaker 4: it's a pathetic commentary on our justice system. When a

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Speaker 4: lawyer for a killer alleged can even make an argument

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Speaker 4: to a judge to keep out text messages admitting to

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Speaker 4: a killing because it quote prejudice, prejudice is my client.

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Speaker 4: The judge should have said no immediately and then shame

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Speaker 4: the phony lawyer for wasting the public's time and money.

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Speaker 4: Justice should be swift. I can't say that, as somebody

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Speaker 4: personally connected this, that I disagree. Obviously. I understand that

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Speaker 4: this judge has to balance things. He's probably balancing a

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Speaker 4: potential appeals. He's making sure that he doesn't trip up

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Speaker 4: on any technicality that the defense is trying to throw

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Speaker 4: in front of him. That Novak guy, by the way,

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Speaker 4: apparently is some big hot shot from southern California that

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Speaker 4: they've brought in and it's getting a lot of money

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Speaker 4: for this, which is interesting. I'm just finding this out

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Speaker 4: this morning. That's what I've seen. I don't know much

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Speaker 4: about him, but that's what the defense.

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Speaker 5: Every person has a right to a trial and tire

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Speaker 5: an attorney, So I don't want to fuss that too much,

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Speaker 5: but it does feel like a slow motion version you

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Speaker 5: ever see the Jim Carrey comedy Liar, Liar, I object

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Speaker 5: your honor on what grounds?

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Speaker 7: It's devastating to my case?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, that's a difference.

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Speaker 6: Being prejudicial is the nature of evidence in a criminal case.

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Speaker 3: It's all prejudice. Exactly.

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Speaker 6: Here's the argument, undo prejudice, unduly prejudiced, prejudicial. In other words,

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Speaker 6: the enormous prejudice outweighs the probate of value. That's the

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Speaker 6: legal standard, not is it prejudicial, or we wouldn't have trials,

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Speaker 6: nothing would be admitted. So that is why you had

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Speaker 6: this back and forth, extended back and forth about case

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Speaker 6: law and under what circumstances and under what factual scenarios

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Speaker 6: is that bird met. That's what they were arguing about.

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Speaker 6: And that's as you mentioned something that the general public

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Speaker 6: wouldn't know. There's no way you would know that's evidence code.

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Speaker 6: It's in the weeds. But you can understand why you'd

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Speaker 6: have a legal test like that, and that's what the

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Speaker 6: judge was grappling with. I only wish he made a

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Speaker 6: clearer record so that everybody watching would have a better

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Speaker 6: understanding as to why he makes the decisions he did.

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Speaker 6: Thank God, we are going to get to see a

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Speaker 6: lot of it today, I have no doubt. On the

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Speaker 6: other side, we'll be breaking down what we wish we

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Speaker 6: would have seen, but what we think about what was

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Speaker 6: admissible now. Also, this is not the end of the line.

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Speaker 6: This is a probable cost hearing between now and trial.

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Speaker 6: My guess is both sides will continue to litigate this.

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Speaker 6: Maybe even more will be admissible in trial.

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Speaker 4: Wow, it's difficult to exactly. I mean, we just don't

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Speaker 4: We just kind of don't know. And that's how much

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Speaker 4: we're going to get. Let's go ahead and play some

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Speaker 4: clips here, Wendy, and just make sure we're all on

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Speaker 4: the same page here. First, I'm going to put Kirk

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Speaker 4: family representative Jeffrey Nyman. He's asking for a transparency. I

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Speaker 4: thought it was well said. Top three.

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Speaker 8: Good morning, your honor Jeffrey ninma On behalf of the

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Speaker 8: Kirk family, and we appreciate the court is trying to

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Speaker 8: balance here. But the Kirk family's waited ten months for

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Speaker 8: this hearing and they have a right to be here,

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Speaker 8: and they have a right to hear the evidence. They

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Speaker 8: have a right to see and feel what's going on

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Speaker 8: in this courtroom, just like and they want to understand,

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Speaker 8: judge what you were viewing. They want to see the evidence,

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Speaker 8: and we understand you have to balance, but at a minimum,

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Speaker 8: this courtroom needs to be open for the evidence to

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Speaker 8: be displayed openly in this courtroom, for them to see it.

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Speaker 8: The Utah Constitution gives them the right to be here

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Speaker 8: and to be here and not to see the evidence,

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Speaker 8: what's the point of being here. We ask you to

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Speaker 8: let the evidence be seen in the courtroom. Please, thank

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Speaker 8: you for your time.

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Speaker 3: Thank you counseling.

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Speaker 5: It really is an import statement he's giving there, and

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Speaker 5: it's good to remind ourselves we're in a particularly important case.

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Speaker 5: Almost it feels unprecedented to me. There have been high

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Speaker 5: profile criminal cases. There have been criminal cases where there's

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Speaker 5: debates about guilt or innocence. But I don't think I've

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Speaker 5: ever seen a case that has this much injection of

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Speaker 5: conspiracy theory fervor before it.

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Speaker 4: Goes to trial in social media.

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Speaker 5: First first big assassination since RFK fifty years ago. And

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Speaker 5: as a result, we also saw that in the text

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Speaker 5: pleading that they also filed with the court overnight, they're

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Speaker 5: just saying, we actually have a desperate need for transparency

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Speaker 5: in this case that goes beyond almost any other case

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Speaker 5: we've seen, because the ways they're running wild with stuff

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Speaker 5: that it turned out is totally groundless. We've got we

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Speaker 5: had all those claims Tyler's wasn't even on campus, and

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Speaker 5: so they have to trot out Actually, here's all this

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Speaker 5: footage where he is on campus. They're trotting out. Actually

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Speaker 5: he never turned himself in, so we need them to

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Speaker 5: trot out. Yes, actually he was in custody nine pm.

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Speaker 5: We sent this police officer down. Stuff that you would

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Speaker 5: never feel needed to be emphasized in most criminal cases

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Speaker 5: really needs to be put on display for the publish.

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Speaker 5: It's such a good point.

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Speaker 4: Couldn't you make the argument, Wendy that it's prejudicial not

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Speaker 4: to sort of fill these voids, these vacuums that have

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Speaker 4: been created by this ten month waiting process. Isn't it

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Speaker 4: prejudicial to a potential jury pool to not give them

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Speaker 4: the facts of why he's being charged and why they're

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Speaker 4: seeking the death penalty.

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Speaker 7: In this case.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, And that's what freedoms are for. And that's what

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Speaker 6: a trial is going to be about. It's going to

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Speaker 6: be about the evidence, not conspiracy theories. All of this

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Speaker 6: would have been trotted out anyway, because all of it

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Speaker 6: is relevant to prove the case. And it's interesting, I've

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Speaker 6: read the same theories you have sometimes people email them

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Speaker 6: to me. There's no evidence back in those theories. What

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Speaker 6: happens in court is evidence, unlike the court of public opinion.

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Speaker 6: So you had yesterday and even the beginning of the week.

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Speaker 6: We had ballistics, we had DNA, we had video footage,

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Speaker 6: We had you know, him turning himself in in the

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Speaker 6: same clothes he was wearing in one of the pieces

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Speaker 6: of video footage. We have a very calm presentation, although

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Speaker 6: we just saw it from behind, of what it was

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Speaker 6: like when he was arrested. There wasn't any bullying, There

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Speaker 6: wasn't any you know, a flickering light. All of that

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Speaker 6: is geared towards establishing that he committed this crime, and

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Speaker 6: that's going to be what today is about as well,

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Speaker 6: and as far as the conspiracy theories, one of the

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Speaker 6: things that Judge is going to do in VWA Dyer

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Speaker 6: when we get to trial is ensure that anybody that

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Speaker 6: is selected for the jury can be fair. That means

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Speaker 6: this is going to be asked about. He's not going

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Speaker 6: to publish the theories, but he's going to ask those jurors,

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Speaker 6: you know, what have you seen, what have you heard?

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Speaker 6: You have any preconceived notions about this case designed to

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Speaker 6: get to exactly what both of you are pointing out.

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Speaker 6: That this case cannot be tried by what's happening and

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Speaker 6: what's being stated in the court of public public opinion,

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Speaker 6: only what's introduced in a court of law. That's what

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Speaker 6: we're doing in this probable cost hearing, That's what we'll

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Speaker 6: be doing at Shrop. Those are great points.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I just go back to the fact that

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Speaker 4: by refusing to admit certain evidence which the defense is

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Speaker 4: pushing for, even in a preliminary hearing, you could make

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Speaker 4: the argument that that is prejudicial against the victim's rights

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Speaker 4: here because again, the conspiracies in the Internet are filling

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Speaker 4: all the voids when the court refuses to fill them.

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Speaker 4: So this is a portion from the brief that was

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Speaker 4: filed by I believe Jeffrey Nyman who just saw on that.

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Speaker 4: So the victims family's position is simple. At a minimum,

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Speaker 4: every exhibit entered into evidence during the preliminary hearing must

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Speaker 4: be visible to every person lawfully present in the courtroom.

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Speaker 4: To receive evidence in a matter shielded from those seated

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Speaker 4: in the courtroom, has happened today is not transparency. And

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Speaker 4: in the absence of transparency, speculation and conspiracy theories related

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Speaker 4: to the tragic assassination of mister Kirk will continue to

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Speaker 4: proliferate in the public domain, breading doubt and distry trust

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Speaker 4: in the judicial system. This is not what anyone should want.

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Speaker 4: So Jeffrey Nyman is hitting that point exactly right, especially

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Speaker 4: this you know, you know, and the absence of transparency,

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Speaker 4: speculation and conspiracies will proliferate. That's the key, and Judge

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Speaker 4: has been persuaded, at least in part.

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Speaker 6: You can't argue with that. It is true. Anytime we say, well,

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Speaker 6: you know, in this very charged environment, this emotionally charged environment,

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Speaker 6: where we have all these theories out there. To say

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Speaker 6: that we're not going to release evidence is necessarily and

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Speaker 6: definitely going to feel those theories, you know. And it

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Speaker 6: is also true that victims have a significant amount of rights,

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Speaker 6: and it's true emotionally nobody can argue that. Why, you know,

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Speaker 6: in a perfect world, everybody would get to see all

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Speaker 6: the evidence, and especially the Kirk family and friends and

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Speaker 6: the beloved supporters that are there. I want to tie

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Speaker 6: that in with one thing that both of you agreed

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Speaker 6: on earlier. We haven't seen a proved them like this.

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Speaker 6: You have the assassination of an absolutely beloved icon, just

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Speaker 6: somebody that could have been President of the United States.

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Speaker 6: It's a case that transcends so many different fact patterns

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Speaker 6: under similar crime statues. It's just different every way you

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Speaker 6: think about it. And in that environment, to have evidence

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Speaker 6: that is not admitted, to have evidence that is redacted

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Speaker 6: is going to be scrutinized far more seriously, which is

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Speaker 6: why I have to imagine that between the probable costs

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Speaker 6: here and whatever the rulings end up being, whatever is redacted,

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Speaker 6: and the trial that the prosecution and the media lawyers

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Speaker 6: will probably continue to push for that transparency. Remember that

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Speaker 6: this sort of came up at the eleventh hour. Shouldn't have.

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Speaker 6: I mean that it always happened, it shouldn't have, But

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Speaker 6: we may be continuing to press for that.

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Speaker 4: Wendy, that was great stuff. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 4: being on standby for this break. It sounds like the

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Speaker 4: court is coming back in session, so we're going to

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Speaker 4: tune right in. All right, Wendy. It seems like they're

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Speaker 4: really taking their time here bringing the public in. We

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Speaker 4: did check the transcription enter.

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Speaker 5: In the courtroom as slowly as we've gone through everything

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Speaker 5: else in this preliminary Yeah, so just preview for the

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Speaker 5: audience though, Wendy, what is about to happen.

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Speaker 6: What's about to happen is we're finally going to see

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Speaker 6: several pieces of evidence that contain statements that are attributed

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Speaker 6: directly to Tyler Robinson. It's going to be the first

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Speaker 6: time we've actually seen that in a court of law.

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Speaker 6: We're going to see that in different formats. We're going

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Speaker 6: to talk about text messages, We're going to hopefully hear

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Speaker 6: from the roommate. After that, we'll no doubt also hears

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Speaker 6: some argument about how much more, if any, we can see.

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Speaker 6: And I have to say the reason I'm glad we're

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Speaker 6: finally getting started is the judgement clear. This is over

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Speaker 6: tomorrow at five pm.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Wendy, it looks like finally finally had the public filtering.

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Speaker 4: But that was actually a really key point right there

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Speaker 4: at the end. So thank you, Wendy, thank you for

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Speaker 4: standing by with us this morning. Let's go back to

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Speaker 4: the courtroom. Hi, folks, Andrew Cole here, I'd like to

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Speaker 9: Uh.

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Speaker 4: We have Robert Barnes now he's joining us. He's been

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Speaker 4: all over social media trying to add facts and logic

427
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Speaker 4: and actually some experience of what it means to do

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Speaker 4: actual law. Robert, thank you so much. Barnes Law, LLP

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Speaker 4: and co host of Viva and Barnes, thank you for

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00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 4: joining us. Robert, What do you make of what just happened?

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Speaker 4: I don't know if you were watching the hearing just there.

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Speaker 4: Jack Pisobic who's in the courtroom or at least around it.

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Speaker 4: He said that huge reversal that the judge is not

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Speaker 4: going to admit more of this Lance Twigs video recording.

435
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,119
Speaker 4: Is that how you read what we just saw?

436
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 3: Yeah?

437
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,120
Speaker 10: And I think what the judge is trying to balance

438
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 10: is the defendant's rights to an impartial jury, which is

439
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 10: influenced by pre trial prejudicial publicity against the victims' rights

440
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 10: to substantially participate and to observe all meaningful hearings under

441
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 10: Utah constitutional and state law, as well as the US

442
00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 10: and state constitutional rights of the media to have access

443
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,679
Speaker 10: to public court proceedings, and the public's right to have

444
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 10: open access to the courts under the First Amendments rights

445
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,439
Speaker 10: to petition the government for redressive grievances in which that

446
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,719
Speaker 10: constitutional right encompasses that. So he's balancing those two. I

447
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 10: think courts usually make the mistake of favoring secrecy and

448
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 10: favoring sealing proceedings over public transparency because they're more worried

449
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 10: about the defendant's pre trial publicity prejudice than they are

450
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:32,199
Speaker 10: the prejudice to not allowing full, complete open access to

451
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 10: particularly high profile cases where it is really necessary for

452
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 10: the public to have confidence in whatever outcome is procured

453
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 10: through that judicial process. And I think you for a

454
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 10: very young judge, he's actually doing a better job than

455
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 10: is normal. Honestly, for judges of that type, the usually

456
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,920
Speaker 10: their lack of age, they default to, Hey, let's keep

457
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 10: things secret, let's keep things sealed because that's what the

458
00:23:54,760 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 10: defendant wants, and overreaching in that capacity because there's an

459
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 10: easy way to resolve the pre trial publicity issue because

460
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,639
Speaker 10: that's only about the jury selection and the impartiality of

461
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 10: the jury. You can use jury selection questioning to make

462
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 10: sure there's nobody on that jury who has undue pre

463
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 10: trial publicity prejudice. This is particularly true when it's evidence

464
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 10: that is likely to be admitted at trial, Like your

465
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 10: concern for pre trial publicity is evidence that is not

466
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,879
Speaker 10: likely to be introduced at trial, that has a limited purpose,

467
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,199
Speaker 10: say in a preliminary hearing context, could get out to

468
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 10: the jury in ways when it won't be admitted into

469
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 10: evidence at trial.

470
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 3: When you're talking about evidence.

471
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 10: That the jury's going to see anyway, there's no reason

472
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 10: for be concerned about that prejudice in the jury.

473
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 4: But is there a difference though, because in the actual trial,

474
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 4: twigs would presumably be called in person and this is

475
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 4: a video recording of it. Does that distinction factor into

476
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 4: the judge's decision here, because yeah, it will be seen

477
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 4: at trial, but it'll be cross examined, correct.

478
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 10: And that's part of the defence's argument. The defense's argument

479
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 10: is that some of this evidence may may be sufficient

480
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:10,399
Speaker 10: to meet the preliminary hearing admissibility evidentiary standard, but not

481
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 10: the trial evidentiary standard. So that that's the defense has

482
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 10: a plausible claim as to why they want to exclude this.

483
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,159
Speaker 10: The I think their main motivation may be different, but

484
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 10: the the I think the they.

485
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 3: Do have a plausible basis for this.

486
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 10: I saw Rick Renell and some other people complaining about

487
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 10: the defense They're just doing their job and their advocacy constitutionally,

488
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 10: which we want them to do because we want.

489
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 3: To have confidence in the outcome of the case.

490
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 10: We want the defense to be very robust, to be

491
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,360
Speaker 10: to to have full capability and confidence that they Yeah,

492
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 10: I exact agree, Robert, I completely agree.

493
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 4: But aren't they sort of conceding, Like, isn't the defense

494
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 4: conceding that they believe that this evidence is really damning

495
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 4: damning by by constantly throwing up objections and fighting full transparency.

496
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,120
Speaker 4: Isn't that kind of the the subtext here?

497
00:25:58,440 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so.

498
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 10: I mean, there is a possibility there may be some

499
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 10: evidentiary vulnerability in some of this evidence that they truly

500
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 10: think they'll be able to exclude from the trial presentation.

501
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 10: But the and some of this is definitely for the

502
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 10: cameras because they have a standing objection. When you have

503
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 10: a standing objection, you don't have to repeat your objection

504
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 10: during the hearing. And they're repeating their objections. So they're

505
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 10: doing this because they know they're defending him in the

506
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 10: court of public opinion as well as the court of law,

507
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 10: which in a high profile case, that's part of a

508
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 10: defense council's job. The so and I get to people

509
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 10: unhappy with that, but that's we want that to be

510
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 10: the case.

511
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 3: We want to believe the defense lawyer defended him every.

512
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 10: Which way they possibly could, so that we can have

513
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 10: confidence when I think this case will ultimately secure as

514
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 10: a conviction, they've already met their preliminary hearing standard with

515
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 10: ease for probable cause purposes. I see a lot of incorrect, confusing,

516
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 10: mistaken views out there that this is the trial.

517
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 3: It's not. This is an EVIDENTI your hearing. It's not.

518
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 10: Tyler Robinson is being afforded more due process than ninety

519
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 10: nine point nine percent of all criminal defendants across the

520
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 10: country and around the world. The most criminal and it's

521
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 10: in the federal system, never get a preliminary hearing. Even

522
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:04,880
Speaker 10: the ones they get it at a state level typically

523
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 10: get far less discovery, far fewer witnesses testifying, don't get

524
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 10: to see the underlying exhibits themselves, don't get to see

525
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 10: audio and video in this capacity, don't get to test

526
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 10: it in front of the public, in front of the

527
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 10: whole world and the court of public opinion, not just

528
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 10: the court of law. They don't get a sneak peak

529
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 10: preview about what these witnesses credibility would look like, though,

530
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 10: So this is extraordinary. This court has gone out of

531
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 10: its way to afford Tyler Robinson more due process, more discovery,

532
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 10: more evidentiary capability to be able to explore and develop

533
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 10: their defenses than almost any criminal defendant in the country gets.

534
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 5: So there's a lot of Robert I'm wondering about that.

535
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 5: We've noticed this as well. It's gotten it's taken so

536
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 5: long's there's been so much process. What's the primary driver

537
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 5: of this is that? Is that it's a capital case?

538
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 5: Is this the judge's call? Is this something where this could,

539
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 5: in theory happen in any murder case, but usually the

540
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 5: attorneys don't really feel like maxing it out. What's the

541
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 5: key driver of why this has been able to go

542
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 5: as long as it has.

543
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 7: Who's making the decisions that decide that.

544
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 10: So the primary mover of delaying this through this entire process,

545
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 10: the primary mover of trying to withhold documents and information

546
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 10: from the public is both the Defense Council, and it's

547
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 10: in the Defense Council's interest to do so when that

548
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 10: evidence is damaging. As to your point, Andrew, it's implicitly

549
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 10: very damaging for them.

550
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,199
Speaker 4: Because sounds like we're coming back, Robert Barnes, thank you

551
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 4: so much. Stand by, We're hopefully going to see the

552
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 4: Lance Twigs video. Now, if you could go back in

553
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 4: time and buy oil before the world relied on it,

554
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 4: would you? Of course you would, anybody would, So why

555
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 4: aren't you buying silver right now? The people who recognized

556
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 4: oil early didn't just make money, They got ahead of

557
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 4: one of the biggest economic shifts in history, and today

558
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 4: a similar opportunity is unfolding with silver. Silver is more

559
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 4: than a precious metal. It's a critical resource used in

560
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 4: solar panels, electric vehicles, defenses, systems, AI infrastructure, in the

561
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 4: massive data centers powering that digital world. While demand keeps growing,

562
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 4: it's still affordable enough that the average American can start

563
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 4: accumulating it right now. That's why investors are turning to

564
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 4: silver to protect against inflation and to own one of

565
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 4: the world's most important strategic resources. Don't be the person

566
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 4: who looks back in ten years and says I saw

567
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,480
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568
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 4: dot com slash kirk and learn how easy it is

569
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 4: to own physical silver. That's Noble Goold Investments dot com

570
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 4: slash kirk own the metal the future depends on.

571
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 5: It took us two days practically, it seems of back

572
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 5: and forth endlessly over what would be presented, but we

573
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 5: finally got what a lot of us I think we're

574
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 5: really waiting for this preliminary hearing for which because we'd

575
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 5: seen we knew some of the stuff evidence from campus,

576
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 5: We knew a lot of the accounts of what had happened.

577
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 5: But what we had not seen was the videotape test

578
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 5: simony from Lance Twigg's, the roommate alleged boyfriend of Tyler Robinson,

579
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 5: who has taken an immunity deal to provide testimony. We

580
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 5: finally got not all but large chunks of his interview

581
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 5: with police that was conducted this spring. He talked about

582
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 5: he confirmed that he'd seen Tyler engraving bullets. He confirmed

583
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 5: that Tyler had sent him text messages confessing to the shooting.

584
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 5: He described reconfirming that in person with him.

585
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 7: The following day.

586
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 5: The words that are going to haunt me, haunt Andrew,

587
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 5: haunt a lot of people.

588
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 7: I think.

589
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 5: He says that Tyler Robinson told him he wished he

590
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 5: hadn't done it.

591
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 4: He was crying.

592
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 5: He was crying, and that's going to stick with all

593
00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 5: of us, I think a very long time. And then

594
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 5: after they presented that, they went back to the witness

595
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 5: and they went through They showed photos of Lance Twiggs's phone,

596
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 5: his iPhone, his communication it reconfirmed exchanged. We saw really

597
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 5: just in the first week after the shooting, they released

598
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 5: a lot of the text messages between Tyler and Lance,

599
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 5: but this confirmed it. We got to see the actual

600
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 5: image of the phone exchange where we'd seen only a

601
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 5: transcript before, and we saw a few pieces that had

602
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 5: been left out before. They occasionally jumped through it before.

603
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 5: One that stood out to me. He was saying, if

604
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 5: I'm not able to retrieve this gun. This is allegedly

605
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 5: Tyler was saying this, I'm not able to retrieve this gun.

606
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 5: I don't know how I could replace it. My grandpa

607
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 5: had done some modifications, some work on it, and gets

608
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 5: to another one of the conspiracy theories we've seen, which

609
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 5: is that it couldn't have been this Mauser ninety eight

610
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 5: rifle because the Mauser ninety eight rifle has a type

611
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 5: of safety on it that's difficult to use with a scope.

612
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 7: But some of our friends have looked into this.

613
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 5: Those ballistics experts, gun experts, I've looked into this Mauser

614
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 5: and ideas a popular rifle. There are a lot of

615
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 5: modifications you can get on that to get around that

616
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 5: so you can use a scope on it. So we

617
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 5: see text message exchanges that are confirming that specific point.

618
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 4: But we do have this video that I think is

619
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 4: also important, and I believe Jay Town has just called in,

620
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 4: So Jay, are you there. I'm sure, yes, Hey, Jay,

621
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 4: I'm going to play this video because one of the

622
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 4: things that I've been seeing online is, you know, the

623
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 4: people are alleging that the images of Tyler Robinson from

624
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 4: the surveillance footage that compilation video yesterday, we're not Tyler Robinson.

625
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 4: And we had a very relevant exchange between the investigator

626
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 4: and Twigs in this video recording where they talk about

627
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,239
Speaker 4: just this. Go ahead and play st seventeen. I'll get

628
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 4: your reaction. Jay Tot seventeen.

629
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 11: Okay, before he came home. Had you seen the press,

630
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 11: the press releases, any of the media on this.

631
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 9: I'd seen one Instagram like link a friend of mine

632
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 9: had sent in our group CHET, but I hadn't really

633
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 9: looked into it at all.

634
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 11: And had you seen the images that were released of

635
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 11: the suspect.

636
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 9: I did the next day. I don't think I saw

637
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 9: any on the tent. I'm going to show you a

638
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 9: couple of those images. Hey, I'm on the FBI's website.

639
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 9: You can see that you are out there at the top.

640
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 9: This is a press release about this event.

641
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 11: And here on the screen you see these there's looks

642
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 11: like they're two rows of three images. Do you recognize

643
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 11: the person in these images?

644
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 9: I wouldn't say with one hundred percent certainty, just because

645
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,760
Speaker 9: of camera quality, but that looks like him. In terms

646
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 9: of the shoes, he's wearing, the sunglasses. I don't think

647
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 9: i'd specifically seen him wearing that hat, but he was

648
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 9: usually wearing a hat. And then she and so it definitely,

649
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 9: especially the bottom the last two definitely do look like him. Oh,

650
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 9: they do look like Tyler Robinson.

651
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 4: Jay speak to this from a legal perspective, what's the

652
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 4: significance I guess, both from a probable cause standpoint and

653
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 4: looking forward to understanding that he's going to be cross

654
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 4: examined if this thing goes to full trial.

655
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 12: Yeah, and it's going a full trial, I can. I

656
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,479
Speaker 12: can promise you that the people who know him best

657
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 12: recognized him. It's as simple as that, right is his

658
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 12: living roommate lover thinks that's him. His parents recognized him

659
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 12: from the from the videos. Uh, you know that day

660
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 12: right when they were put out saying there's a be

661
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 12: on a lookout for for this individual, and they're like, hey,

662
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 12: that looks like our son and he look. I mean,

663
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 12: it's incredibly important when the people who know him best

664
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 12: say that's him. Now, look that that just gets.

665
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 13: Him in that area.

666
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 12: It's it's you know, the conspiracy theorists don't have that

667
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 12: wiggle anymore. The biggest thing, though, honestly, are the admissions

668
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 12: with Twigs that I mean, you know, you don't admit

669
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 12: to murder, you don't.

670
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 13: You don't confess.

671
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 12: Why you did it, You don't confess. I mean, he

672
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 12: knew an awful lot about where the gun was, that

673
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 12: there was a scope on that rifle on the mouser,

674
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 12: and that he might have fingerprints on it. Of course

675
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 12: we know he had DNA on it.

676
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 4: Uh.

677
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 12: And right where he's talking about the area where exactly

678
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 12: where they found that murder weapon. I mean, that is

679
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 12: just damning evidence and admissions are absolutely the best evidence

680
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 12: a prosecutor can hope for. I have prosecuted or investigated

681
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,760
Speaker 12: hundreds of homicides in my career.

682
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 13: And death penalty cases as well.

683
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 12: I can tell you the evidence in this case is

684
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 12: as strong as I have seen.

685
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 13: And there is no mental health defense.

686
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 12: Here that they that the defense is trying to put forward.

687
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 12: If there was, then they would just concede it all

688
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 12: and say, yeah, but he was crazy. No, they're fighting

689
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 12: tooth and nail about every single item because they know

690
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,439
Speaker 12: the more that happens, the more the public knows, more

691
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 12: the future jury pool knows.

692
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 13: This is no cases.

693
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 12: A layup, No cases are slam dunk. But this is

694
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 12: as good as it's going to get for any state,

695
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 12: for any prosecution in a homicide case.

696
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think that's pretty that's a pretty

697
00:36:55,440 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 4: definitive statement. Jay Hi folks. Andrew Colvett here, I'd like

698
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 4: to tell you about my friends over at y Refi.

699
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 4: You've probably been hearing me talk about y Refi for

700
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Speaker 4: some time now. We are all in with these guys.

701
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702
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Speaker 4: student loan debt, take my advice and give them a call.

703
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704
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Speaker 4: You don't have to live in this nightmare anymore. Why

705
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706
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Speaker 4: your ability to pay. They tailor each loan individually. They

707
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Speaker 4: can save you thousands of dollars and you can get

708
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Speaker 4: your life back. We go to campuses all over America

709
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Speaker 4: and we see student after student who's drowning in private

710
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Speaker 4: student loan debt. Many of them don't even know how

711
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Speaker 4: much they owe. Why ref I can help. Just go

712
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 4: to y refi dot com. That's the letter why then

713
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 4: refi dot com. And remember why Refi doesn't care what

714
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 4: your credit score is. Just go to yrefi dot com

715
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 4: and tell them your friend Andrews sent you. I am

716
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 4: curious about out this limited immunity for lance twigs. You

717
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 4: know I would you know, just full transparency reading some

718
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 4: of that stuff where he's talking about, hey, drive safe,

719
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,760
Speaker 4: you know, after he's just you know, confess to a murder,

720
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 4: you know, and they're kind of going back and forth,

721
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 4: you know the fact that I don't know. It's just

722
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 4: it was infuriating to watch that portion of it. It

723
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,800
Speaker 4: does seem like hours went by where Lance Twigs was

724
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 4: aware what happened and he did nothing about it. So

725
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 4: can you break down what that limited immunity would be?

726
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 4: Does he have any exposure here?

727
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:39,720
Speaker 12: Well, the only exposure you would have is if.

728
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 13: He suddenly has different testimony than what he has.

729
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 12: Given already in those in those take interviews, right, So

730
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 12: suddenly he changes and says something that is exculpatory to

731
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 12: Tyler Robinson, then then he could be stripped of that

732
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 12: immunity and be prosecuted for any crimes to include perjury. Now, look,

733
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 12: that's not going to happen. He knows he's never going

734
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 12: to see Tyler Robinson again. Tyler Robinson was counting on

735
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 12: Twigs being able to keep this secret with him for

736
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 12: the rest of his life. That's why he left the note,

737
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 12: That's why he told him that it was him and

738
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 12: admitted it all to him and didn't realize that Twiggs

739
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 12: would immediately go to police and say, yeah, this is

740
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 12: him and this is what he told me.

741
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 13: It was disgusting though.

742
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 12: When you as you pointed out the well drive safely,

743
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 12: it was almost sort of just a matter of fact,

744
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:33,879
Speaker 12: it was it you.

745
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:35,879
Speaker 13: Yeah, it was me, Oh, why did you do it?

746
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 12: And he's like, man, I really I hate the fact

747
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 12: that I'm going to lose that two thousand dollars scope

748
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 12: that's on that mouser.

749
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,280
Speaker 13: My dad's really going to be mad. That's what's going through.

750
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 12: Your mind at the moment, right, husband, a father, a

751
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 12: national leader.

752
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 13: It really is. It's disgusting and it is going.

753
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 12: To infuriate his great argument in a jury trial when

754
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 12: you are advocating for death. And by the way, there's

755
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 12: a lot in those messages to Twigs from Robinson about

756
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 12: why he did it, and it was all because the

757
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 12: spreading hate and the political messages of Charlie Kirk. Well,

758
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 12: that is the death aggravator at issue here, not that

759
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 12: he's a Christian, not that you know, he's a father.

760
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 12: It was that he was spreading hate by doing what

761
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 12: by doing what Charlie Kirk did, which is go to

762
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 12: campus and talk about politics and a very open session

763
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 12: with students and adults, And it was that politics that

764
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 12: drove Tyler Robinson to do what he did. That's exactly

765
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 12: the death aggravator that the state is seeking the death

766
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 12: penalty upon.

767
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 5: We mentioned whether he's telling the full truth. The part

768
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 5: of that testimony that stood out to a lot of

769
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 5: people is he Twiggs says that they didn't talk about

770
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:54,320
Speaker 5: politics much, that he'd never heard Tyler bring up Charlie

771
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 5: Kirk specifically by name before. And it gets me wondering,

772
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 5: first of all, is that fully true, or if it

773
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 5: is true, then are we still looking for that nexus

774
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 5: that was driving Tyler to actually do this? Was there

775
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 5: is there another discord group that we don't know about.

776
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, he did mention that he when he talked about politics,

777
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 4: Tyler is usually talking about Trump, so that maybe that

778
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 4: nexus is enough.

779
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,760
Speaker 5: Could be that for But you and I both said

780
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 5: we really, we badly want everyone who was involved in

781
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 5: this beforehand to be brought to justice. And that gets

782
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 5: back to if he was in another discord group that

783
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 5: they haven't found yet, perhaps maybe that's where he was

784
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 5: getting nudged towards this violent act. If it wasn't really

785
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:43,720
Speaker 5: coming from his roommate.

786
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 12: It could be. I mean, look, they're going to keep

787
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 12: looking cash for telling. The FBI are going to use

788
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 12: every tool they can to determine if there was a

789
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:56,919
Speaker 12: second sort of discord swinging or spring or any other

790
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 12: type of application that that or he was on and

791
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 12: he was being sort of radicalized. But I actually think

792
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 12: the simplest explanation is the truth here ThReD you no reader,

793
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 12: I'll confess to murder to you, but I won't confess

794
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 12: about this second you know, string or thread on a

795
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 12: different app It seems to me that he was you know,

796
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 12: I believe that he didn't discuss Charlie much at all

797
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 12: with him simply because Trump was enough. Right, this is

798
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 12: exactly what trump arrangement says to syndrome, does to people

799
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 12: that those closest to him are just as big a targets.

800
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:35,320
Speaker 12: And who's closer than Charlie Kirk, right, I mean, Charlie

801
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 12: Kirk had everything to do with Trump getting back into office,

802
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 12: everything to do with it. And you know I had

803
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 12: the opportunity to take Charlie Kirk out, meaning Charlie was

804
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 12: in Utah at a university just a few hours away

805
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,360
Speaker 12: from Tyler Robinson, and so he took it, blaming Trump,

806
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 12: blaming Kirk, blaming all of us for the sport of

807
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 12: the President that it could just be that that simple.

808
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 4: Guys, Hey, thanks for joining us, man, I think I

809
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 4: know candidly need to take a break to thank you

810
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 4: for jumping on and being sort of available for us today.

811
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:16,800
Speaker 4: Any final thoughts, Blake, Jay, Yeah.

812
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 12: And I just and this is important, Andrew, this is important. Look,

813
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 12: this is very personal for you guys to sit and

814
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 12: watch this, as it is for Erica and the family

815
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 12: and so many people that love Charlie. But it takes

816
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 12: a lot of courage, takes guts to sit there and

817
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,320
Speaker 12: have to watch it and be objective still because.

818
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 13: You have every right to be angry. So I appreciate

819
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 13: what you guys are doing by watching the whole thing, reporting.

820
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,280
Speaker 12: It back, being as objective as you can, and bringing

821
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:44,879
Speaker 12: the truth out the best you can.

822
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 13: You know the truth, We know the truth, and we're

823
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 13: with you.

824
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 4: Thanks for saying that, Ja, I appreciate it. For more

825
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 4: on many of these stories and news you can trust,

826
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 4: go to Charliekirk dot com.