1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: Life Audio. Hi from the Salvation Army. You're listening to 2 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: Words of Life. 3 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 2: The words these are the words of life. 4 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 3: Welcome back to Words of Life. We are continuing a 5 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 3: series where we're speaking to writers of all kinds and 6 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 3: today we're joined by our friends, Doctor Bill and Reverend 7 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,279 Speaker 3: Diane Ury. If you are an aspiring writer, I want 8 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 3: to encourage you to listen to the end because at 9 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 3: the end of this interview Diane offers some beautiful advice 10 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 3: and encouragement. We are welcoming back our good friends, Doctor 11 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 3: Bill and Reverend Diane Ury. They are our national ambassadors 12 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 3: for holiness. Thank you guys for coming back on the show. 13 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 4: It's great to be with you. 14 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 2: We love this. 15 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 3: So for any of our listeners who don't know you, 16 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 3: can you just kind of share who you are and 17 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 3: what that role with the Salvation Army means. 18 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 4: We are a married couple forty one years and have 19 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 4: been a ministry for all of that time. But in 20 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 4: the last eight years, the Lord has led us to 21 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 4: the Army in this marvelous, wonderful It's a blessing of 22 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:36,119 Speaker 4: a ministry for us to offer to the army again 23 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 4: a reminder, a loving reminder of who the Lord's called 24 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 4: us to be holy people biblically, but of course it 25 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 4: is a denomination. And we've just had a wonderful time 26 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 4: trapesing around the country and some of the world, just 27 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 4: talking with people about the Holy One and all he 28 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 4: wants to do in our lives. So it's been an 29 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 4: incredibly beautiful time for our lives. We just often say 30 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 4: how the Army has just blessed us with the this 31 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 4: opportunity to spend these years together in such a vital 32 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 4: for our lives anyway, a vital ministry. So we're very grateful. 33 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 4: That's kind of how I would describe us. I don't 34 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 4: know what you would say. 35 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 5: That's good. 36 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, we wanted to have a series talking about the 37 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 3: importance of writing, the act of writing. So scripture itself 38 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,399 Speaker 3: is the written word of God, and throughout history it's 39 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 3: been a primary way that the Gospel spreads. So why 40 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,959 Speaker 3: do you think the written word remains such a powerful 41 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 3: medium for sharing our faith today. 42 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 5: Well, I think that there is something incarnational about words 43 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 5: that are written. It's really tempting, especially in this day 44 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 5: and age, to kind of without thinking it through, we 45 00:02:53,600 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 5: kind of get involved in ideas that are disembodied talking 46 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:06,239 Speaker 5: about AI that's very tempting. But there's something about the 47 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 5: written word that it's embodied. And Jesus, obviously he's God embodied, 48 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 5: He's the incarnation, and the Bible is an incarnation. So 49 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 5: Jesus is, he's God, the spirit who joined himself to humanity. 50 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 5: That's who Jesus is. He's fully God, fully human. And 51 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 5: then the Bible is also inspired by the Holy Spirit. 52 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 5: But it was regular human persons who wrote it. So 53 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 5: there's something. I think there's really empower powerful about the 54 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 5: fact that writing is embodied. It's not just a disembodied 55 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 5: bunch of thinking and ideas, but when it's written down, 56 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:03,839 Speaker 5: there's something graspable about it. There's a power in it 57 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 5: that is created by God, who is the Word, and 58 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 5: that just excites me. It kind of takes the pressure 59 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 5: off of us having to have great ideas on our own. 60 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 5: We can know for a fact that writing is of God. 61 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think your sense that Diane and I love 62 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 4: to be airy fairy, as she said, first of all, 63 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 4: I want to say this is one of the most 64 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 4: it's really a very deep question. I love that Dianee 65 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 4: and started with the incarnation. I would say also not 66 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 4: beyond that. But besides that is it's also trinitarian. I mean, 67 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 4: if you think about that the Lord is the eternal 68 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 4: Word himself, that within the Trinity there's communication going on 69 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 4: for eternity. Then we are invited into that life by 70 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 4: being speaking creatures. That's how we share ideas, that's how 71 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 4: we share love is through words other ways, but words 72 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 4: are the key way of sharing ideas. And and so 73 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 4: that the that the incarnate war would then allow an 74 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 4: unscripturated word, a written word, to be the avenue by 75 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 4: which we would know ultimate truth is really a remarkable 76 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 4: thing because of course he allows us to interpret those words. 77 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 4: They're they're eternal, they're true words, but we can interpret them. 78 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 4: So it's a personal relationship. So the whole thing about speaking, 79 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 4: communicating is trinitarian, person to person, and then we're invited 80 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 4: into that as well. And so that to me is 81 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 4: the whole foundation of what makes a book meaningful or not. 82 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 4: I mean, you and I pass like behind me thousands 83 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,479 Speaker 4: of books, but only a few of them are really 84 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 4: life changing. When when you think about the world of books, 85 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 4: and and only those books that really are I think 86 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 4: that the tap into the nature of God's self communication 87 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 4: and and how the world is he put together by 88 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 4: speaking it into existence. It's really a remarkable thing that 89 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 4: we're involved in. So I view it when I'm in 90 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 4: my good days, not my bad days of not being 91 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 4: able to write, but the better days saying Lord, thank 92 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 4: you for inviting me into too, describing you and reality 93 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 4: to other people as best as I can. It's very 94 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 4: I feel very weak, but you use these things to 95 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 4: change lives, and it's a it's a beautiful thing. 96 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 3: Hey, you're listening to the salvation armies of words of life. 97 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 3: We're going to take a quick ad break and we'll 98 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 3: be right back. 99 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 5: As Christian writers, the act of writing can be a 100 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 5: form of worship. What does that look like for you 101 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 5: as you write? I loved that question. I was so 102 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 5: curious where you came up with that. But for me, 103 00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 5: the definition of worship is mutual self giving and mutual receiving. 104 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 5: So that can that can happen on a Sunday morning. 105 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 5: But it is not only music. Worship is not just singing. 106 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 5: It's not just music. Worship is when like say the 107 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 5: preached word, it's God offering himself in the preached word, 108 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 5: and we receive that and we give back to him 109 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 5: our life when we sing or when we tithe in 110 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 5: the offering, and when we give of ourselves, he says, 111 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 5: thank you very much, and he receives us. So it's 112 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 5: this continuous mutual giving and receiving. And so for me 113 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 5: as a writer, this is very, very helpful to me 114 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 5: when I think about writing as worship, because not any 115 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 5: idea I've ever had, if it's worth anything, has ever 116 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 5: originated in me. And so the way I look at 117 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 5: it is, none of the ideas I have belong to me. 118 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 5: They're not mine. They belong to Jesus, and he has 119 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 5: offered them to me, and he's saying, what are you 120 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 5: gonna do with those? So I have a responsibility to 121 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 5: steward what he has given to me. And it always 122 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 5: is for someone else. It's always for somebody else, And 123 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:32,319 Speaker 5: so I just find that really freeing because it takes 124 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 5: me right out of the picture. I'm out of the 125 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,319 Speaker 5: way and I just sit with him. Jesus, you know 126 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 5: who's going to read this. You know what they need. 127 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 5: Give me your words, your ideas, your thoughts, and so 128 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 5: it's like teamwork. So for me, that's how writing is worship. 129 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 5: It's like this non stop breathing in the Lord and 130 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 5: then just in obedience and self offering. I'm just saying, Okay, 131 00:08:58,200 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 5: this was of you, and I'm going to write it 132 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 5: and you take it. And not only is it important 133 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 5: that he give us the words and the ideas, but 134 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 5: that he inhabit them. I want him to inhabit anything 135 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 5: that I've ever written, because that's the only way there's 136 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 5: ever going to be any fruit from it. 137 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 3: We pray that you're enjoying and being blessed by this conversation. 138 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 3: We're going to take one more ad break and we'll be 139 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:41,319 Speaker 3: right back. Your most recent book called Conversations about Holiness. 140 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 3: Why did you guys write this? Who is this for? 141 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 3: And what do you hope people get out of it? 142 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 5: Well, the book is it's a Q and A setup. 143 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 5: It's a question and answer format. Every single one of 144 00:09:54,800 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 5: those questions are real. They came from actual Salvationists, so 145 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 5: we just try to answer them in a conversational style. 146 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 5: I gave all the really hard ones to Bill, but no, 147 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 5: but that's what the book is. So it came out 148 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 5: of the realization that these questions are very, very common, 149 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 5: and so we thought maybe this would be helpful to 150 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 5: people who've never been in one of our Q and 151 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 5: A sessions. But apparently everyone is asking the same questions 152 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 5: that we just hope it will be helpful. 153 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 4: We don't want to We didn't want to give a 154 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 4: monolithic sort of this is the answer to everything. There 155 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 4: are different perspectives. No one has the Salvation. Army believes 156 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 4: in holiness. We love the sanctification, but we're not saying 157 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,839 Speaker 4: we have the only ideas about this. We have some 158 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 4: particular beautiful ones, but the Holy One is you can't 159 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 4: define him, you can't describe him. So you need different 160 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 4: personalities conversing about the nature, the mammoth nature of God, 161 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 4: the internal nature of God. And that's why we need 162 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 4: everybody who's called to write to write. We need your perspective. 163 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 5: What advice would you give a listener who has a 164 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 5: desire to write but feel stuck. I want to say 165 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 5: this is like tangible, practical advice. Read his word, get 166 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 5: like your physical Bible every day, every morning. The Bible 167 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 5: is the source of any good book that's ever been written. 168 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,959 Speaker 5: He is the best storyteller, He's the master word. Right, 169 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 5: and have your notebook with you while you're reading. Anything 170 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 5: that strikes your heart is probably the spirit whispering to you. 171 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 5: Write it down. Just write it down. Doesn't have to 172 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,839 Speaker 5: be well written, just write it down. And sometimes it 173 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 5: might be a verse. Write the entire verse with your 174 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 5: hand on a paper notebook, and offer yourself to g 175 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 5: Jesus in that process over what he's just spoken to 176 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 5: you give thanks to him whatever it is. Breathe in 177 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,959 Speaker 5: the awe of the moment that God from outside this 178 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 5: world has just spoken his word to you, and you've 179 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 5: just written it down. It's so intimate. You receive his word, 180 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 5: you respond in whatever way, and you always obey. But 181 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 5: whatever you might eventually write about is going to come 182 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 5: from his voice. I'll say that again, whatever you eventually 183 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 5: write about is going to come from the very voice 184 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 5: of God. And that should just fire you up. That 185 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 5: should give you great confidence. And you might be a 186 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 5: fiction writer, you might be a journalist, you might be 187 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 5: a theologian. Whatever kind of writer you are, always start 188 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 5: in his word. He wants to produce through you what 189 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 5: he wants someone else to read. You might be writing 190 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 5: curriculum for sixth graders. Whatever it is, it's going to 191 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 5: come from him and it's going to be awesome. 192 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 1: The Salvation Army's mission doing the most good means helping 193 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: people with material and spiritual needs. You become a part 194 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: of this mission every time you give to the Salvation Army. 195 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: Visit Salvation Army USA dot org to offer your support. 196 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 1: You can subscribe to Words of Life on your favorite 197 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: podcast store or visit Salvation armiesoundcast dot org. Join us 198 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: next time for the Salvation Armies Words. 199 00:13:50,480 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 6: Of Life, Life Words Life. 200 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 7: These are the Words of Life. 201 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 3: Thanks so much for listening to Words of Life. We 202 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 3: want to thank the team at Life Audio for their 203 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 3: partnership with us on the show. Visit lifeaudio dot com, 204 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 3: where you'll find dozens of other faith centered podcasts in 205 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 3: their network. They have shows about prayer, Bible studying, parenting, 206 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 3: and more. Thanks again for listening. 207 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 5: We'll see you next time.