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Speaker 1: Life Audio.

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Speaker 2: Last year, I interviewed doctor Allison Cook on her most

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Speaker 2: recent book, I Shouldn't Feel This Way. Today, I'm sharing

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Speaker 2: with you a past conversation I had with doctor Cook

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Speaker 2: about her book, The Best of You. The entire interview

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Speaker 2: was exclusively for Replenish, our group coaching membership for women. Now,

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Speaker 2: while the membership is no longer intact, this conversation with

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Speaker 2: doctor Allison is as fresh as ever and I know

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Speaker 2: you'll enjoy it. After a word from our sponsor, we'll

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Speaker 2: dive into our conversation for today.

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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Jim.

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Speaker 2: Badling, sole care coach and mentor here in Replenished. Today,

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Speaker 2: I'm talking with doctor Allison Cook and we'll be discussing

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Speaker 2: how to discover the best of You and doctor Allison

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Speaker 2: delivers life changing strategies for helping women develop their voices,

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Speaker 2: forge healthy relatetionationships, and embrace the holy sacred work of

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Speaker 2: becoming their true selves in God. Doctor Allison will share

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Speaker 2: a life altering challenge she recently faced and what emerged

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Speaker 2: from that season will also engage the importance of women

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Speaker 2: finding their voices. We'll talk about Jesus and boundaries and

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Speaker 2: why it's not selfish to know what we want and

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Speaker 2: to advocate for it. Doctor Alison Cook is a psychologist

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Speaker 2: and writer who has earned the trust of thousands of

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Speaker 2: women through her practical, wise, and compassionate approach to becoming

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Speaker 2: a whole person. Her popular blog and podcast reach over

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Speaker 2: fifty thousand women each week. For over two decades, she

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Speaker 2: has helped women heal from past wounds, develop a strong

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Speaker 2: sense of self, forge healthy relationships with others, and experience

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Speaker 2: a loving God who is for them. She is the

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Speaker 2: co author of Boundaries for Your Soul, of faith based

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Speaker 2: adaptation of the internal family System model of therapy, as

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Speaker 2: well as her new book, The Best of You. She

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Speaker 2: and her husband Joe are the parents of two young

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Speaker 2: adult children. We are in for a treat today, so

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Speaker 2: buckle up. You'll see very quickly that she and I

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Speaker 2: were bonding and going back and forth quite easily. She's

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Speaker 2: just a wonderful conversationalist. So enjoy my conversation with doctor

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Speaker 2: Alison Cook. Well, welcome, doctor Allison Cook. It is so

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Speaker 2: nice to have you with us.

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad to be here. Thanks for having me,

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Speaker 1: of course.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I follow you on Instagram and I always

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Speaker 2: love your reels because they're just so practical and real

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Speaker 2: and helpful. And then I mentioned too that I almost

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Speaker 2: finished reading your other.

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Speaker 1: Book, Founders for Your Soul.

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Speaker 2: But what I noticed about it because I read a

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Speaker 2: couple of books on ifs, but what I noticed about

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Speaker 2: your book was that it had a tone of formation,

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Speaker 2: which I really appreciated.

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Speaker 1: It was a different.

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Speaker 2: Tone than I had seen, and I just wanted to

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Speaker 2: point that out because because transformation and formation are very

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Speaker 2: important to me and to us here at unhurried living,

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Speaker 2: and so I don't know if you intended that, but

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Speaker 2: your tone is invitational, and I really appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: Now, when you say formation, do you mean as opposed

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Speaker 1: to just therapeutic or what do you mean? Tell me

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Speaker 1: what you mean. I take that as a big compliment.

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Speaker 2: It's totally a compliment. Yeah, Because I'm not a therapist.

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Speaker 2: I'm a spiritual director. I'm a sole care coach, and

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Speaker 2: I care very much about transformation. So when I use

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Speaker 2: the word formational, maybe I just throw that word around,

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Speaker 2: but to me, that means that you care about.

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Speaker 1: The process of a of a person.

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Speaker 2: It's it's important to remember that we are on a

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Speaker 2: journey and that there's a process of a life that

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Speaker 2: we have, but within that there's many processes and I

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Speaker 2: just found your tone to fit in with that that

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Speaker 2: we are on a journey.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's so much.

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Speaker 2: Grace there, and so I just appreciate that a lot.

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Speaker 1: So I appreciate that because I think, but in both

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Speaker 1: that book and in my new book, I do kind

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Speaker 1: of sometimes find myself in this weird place of what

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Speaker 1: am I because, like you said, as a spiritual director,

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Speaker 1: I really resonate with a lot of what goes on

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Speaker 1: in spiritual direction and then with the training of the therapist.

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Speaker 1: So those two are always kind of you know, I

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Speaker 1: kind of do this with my hands, meaning kind of

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Speaker 1: the underground work or looking, but then always with the

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Speaker 1: spiritual formation work. They really do go together in my mind.

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Speaker 1: So I really appreciate that you pick that up. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I loved it.

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Speaker 2: So I highly recommend today we're here to talk about

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Speaker 2: the best of You, of course, but her other book

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Speaker 2: is Boundaries for the Soul, and I just recommend both

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Speaker 2: of them. So anyway, let's get into the best of You.

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Speaker 2: It kind of opens with a bang. You just you

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Speaker 2: gets very vulnerable pretty quickly, and you just share it.

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Speaker 2: You kind of share something that happened to you in

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Speaker 2: our recent history. So I was wonder if you just

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Speaker 2: share with us that story.

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Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah, it's fascinating because the idea, the idea for

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Speaker 1: the best of you really came out of my own

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Speaker 1: journey from twenty years ago, right of like learning as

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Speaker 1: a as a woman, as a Christian woman, growing up

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Speaker 1: in a Christian household, kind of that it's okay to

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Speaker 1: have a self, that this idea of dying to self

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Speaker 1: gets misconstrued very frequently, and it doesn't mean that we

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Speaker 1: don't get to have a self. And so I thought

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Speaker 1: about that for years and kind of started to begin

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Speaker 1: to like, oh, this is the latch, this is this

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Speaker 1: book that I want to write. And right after that

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Speaker 1: that kind of crystallized for me. I actually had a stroke,

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Speaker 1: which was I'm, you know, in my forties. I don't

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Speaker 1: have any risk factors, you know, it wasn't It kind

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Speaker 1: of came out of the blue, and it was extremely

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Speaker 1: traumatic primarily for and I ended up okay because my

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Speaker 1: husband acted really quickly and the doctors acted really quickly,

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Speaker 1: so physically I was for the most part okay, but

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Speaker 1: there was a traumatic impact of just something happening out

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Speaker 1: of the blue without a real explanation or reason. Right,

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Speaker 1: that cuts out the core of our spirituality, of our emotions.

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Speaker 1: And so I found myself in a couple of months,

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Speaker 1: several month process of kind of going through that journey

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Speaker 1: you know that I so often take my clients on of,

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Speaker 1: you know, paying attention to those cues and allowing your

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Speaker 1: soul to heal.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is what you said about this out of nowhere.

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Speaker 1: That's a it's a shock. It's a shock.

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Speaker 2: It's a shock, right to work that process. Well, then,

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Speaker 2: so I think you mentioned it's it's sort of informed

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Speaker 2: informed this book it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it did in the sense that I had

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Speaker 1: to because I kind of formulated all these ideas and

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Speaker 1: then it was like, oh, here I am going to

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Speaker 1: be living them for the next few months. Of some

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Speaker 1: of these things that I'd come to hold really dear

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Speaker 1: and true, which we have to emotions are cues, They're

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Speaker 1: not the enemy. So all of a sudden, I'm waking

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Speaker 1: up anxious in the middle of the night. Do I

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Speaker 1: really feel like that's a cue? Well? Yes? And can

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Speaker 1: I really extend compassion to myself? Right, So it forced

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Speaker 1: me to test some of these can I trust myself

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Speaker 1: because something terrible just happens? So what do I mean

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Speaker 1: when I'm saying to Christian women, listen and I talk

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Speaker 1: about these things in the best of you. But you

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Speaker 1: know that this idea of like, yeah, it's not that

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Speaker 1: things don't happen or that we don't We might not

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Speaker 1: always know how to respond to things, but fundamentally we

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Speaker 1: can arrive at this place of cohesiveness and integrity inside

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Speaker 1: that is trustworthy, within the limits of our humanity. So

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Speaker 1: it just forced me to test all of those ideas

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Speaker 1: in very real time as I was writing this book.

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Speaker 1: So it was it wasn't that it brought me new ideas.

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Speaker 1: It just sort of began I had to really go

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Speaker 1: deep into Okay, does this really work? Does this really apply?

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Speaker 1: And for the most part, you know, it just took

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Speaker 1: me deeper into a lot of those ideas.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, see, I trust an author who has lived what

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Speaker 2: they're talking about, because I think that's important right for

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Speaker 2: our own authenticity to not just be spouting I understand

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Speaker 2: that there's books that people can write that are information

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Speaker 2: that we need, But I don't think you're just trying

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Speaker 2: to write a book that's information. You're trying to make

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Speaker 2: people grow and change and transform. And if you're talking

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Speaker 2: about getting in touch with our true self and God,

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Speaker 2: which is in your subtitle, I mean that's about real life.

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Speaker 2: And I love the practical nature because we can get

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Speaker 2: sort of heady and intellectual or theological about things. But

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Speaker 2: for me and for the women I work with, we're

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Speaker 2: asking yes, but.

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Speaker 1: How Yeah, it's interesting kind of tying back into what

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Speaker 1: you're saying. There's the formational aspect, and then there's a

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Speaker 1: practical aspect, and that I really in the best of

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Speaker 1: you trying to be very practical, very tactical, which is

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Speaker 1: hard because you're threatening that needle of it's not like

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Speaker 1: a self improvement. But there is a way in which

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Speaker 1: we also need to understand these concepts. What does it

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Speaker 1: mean to have a self? What does it mean to

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Speaker 1: honor emotions? What does it mean to have what I

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Speaker 1: call in the book an internal locus of control where

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Speaker 1: we are, yes, we are we are seeking the wisdom

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Speaker 1: of other people, and we are always in conversation with God,

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Speaker 1: and also we are paying attention to our own inner cues.

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Speaker 1: All of those are sort of abstract conceptual ideas that

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Speaker 1: are very important. So how do we do that? And

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Speaker 1: I hear what you're saying in that, and so I

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Speaker 1: did do a lot in this book of Here are

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Speaker 1: some examples, here are some scripts, Here are some steps

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Speaker 1: to walk through to begin to do this work, because

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Speaker 1: if you don't have a method, you know, it's hard

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Speaker 1: to get to the transformation. Otherwise than they just stand

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Speaker 1: the realm of ideas.

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Speaker 2: I think, Yeah, I've had my own journey of discovery,

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Speaker 2: of course, as a woman on a journey, and that

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Speaker 2: finding my voice aspect has really come alive.

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Speaker 1: Of course I'm in I'm in the second half of life.

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Speaker 2: Now I can't even say I'm in midlife anymore.

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Speaker 1: But midlife was.

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Speaker 2: A real animal where all of that really came undone,

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Speaker 2: and that's where I did a lot of my own

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Speaker 2: therapy to work through things. But the freedom that I

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Speaker 2: found in really facing all of that and looking at it,

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Speaker 2: it just strengthened my already conviction about this transformational journey

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Speaker 2: that God has us on. Anyway, So I love talking

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Speaker 2: about this for women, finding your voice, having a sense

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Speaker 2: of agency, moving past the idea that to have a

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Speaker 2: self is selfish, all of that is important, right, So

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Speaker 2: I'm wondering on that note, why do you think it's

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Speaker 2: hard for women, you know, to value what we think,

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Speaker 2: to know what we want. I can ask a woman

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Speaker 2: that very often and they won't know the answer to

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Speaker 2: what they were want.

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Speaker 1: I know, yeah, I mean the same thing. I've thought

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Speaker 1: about it in myself and in my clients. I see

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Speaker 1: it in you know, you've got a daughter and a son,

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Speaker 1: and you know, what do you want? The son knows

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Speaker 1: the daughter. I'm not sure. It's just fascinating. It's like

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Speaker 1: it's in the air that we breathe, and I kind

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Speaker 1: of boil it down in the book to what I

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Speaker 1: think are three factors. One is we all bring our

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Speaker 1: own woundedness to the table, and especially for women, many

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Speaker 1: of us were conditioned too new to our voices to

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Speaker 1: listen to other people. There's some research that suggests that

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Speaker 1: women are more conditioned toward looking externally than are. You know,

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Speaker 1: some of that might be wiring, but a lot of

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Speaker 1: it is also nature. I think it's just part of

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Speaker 1: the conditioning. And then we get these church messages that

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Speaker 1: sort of reinforce that, especially for and then just culturally,

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Speaker 1: if you just look at the history, you know, it's fascinating.

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Speaker 1: I started to look into the ishround, like Collie, it

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Speaker 1: wasn't that many years ago that there were very real

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Speaker 1: things that women were not allowed to have a voice about.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not just you know, and it's just these

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Speaker 1: are just fags, right, I'm not trying to make a

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Speaker 1: big but it's just you know. And then you add

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Speaker 1: an overlay of you know, some of my friends of

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Speaker 1: color read the book and I'm like, and it's even

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Speaker 1: more pronounced right with some of the ways in which

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Speaker 1: literally there's this generational of be quiet, sit back, your

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Speaker 1: voice doesn't count, you know. But I mean, just you know,

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Speaker 1: the one data point that was really fascinating to me

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Speaker 1: as I was researching it was the one this applied

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Speaker 1: to my own mother was she would she couldn't legally

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Speaker 1: apply for a credit card without my dad. You know.

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Speaker 1: She was of that generation where it was not it

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Speaker 1: was still not possible for a woman to take out

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Speaker 1: her own find, you know, to be responsible for her

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Speaker 1: own finances as a twenty five, twenty eight thirty year

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Speaker 1: old woman. Right, So how does that affect this generational

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Speaker 1: sense of no, no, I'm confident I can trust myself.

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Speaker 1: I have a voice. Of course, that impacts us so

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Speaker 1: there's all these different levels from our own childhoods to

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Speaker 1: the church to then the culture at large that just

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Speaker 1: these residual messages, you know, I think all kind of

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Speaker 1: come to play where we're like, Okay, I know I

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Speaker 1: can have a voice, but how do I get one?

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Speaker 1: And I don't have models and models and models? Right?

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Speaker 1: How did I see this in my mother's and my grandmother? Right?

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Speaker 1: It's very fascinating. So there's a lot to it, let

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Speaker 1: to impact there.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well I'm wondering then, I mean, I totally

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Speaker 2: can see how that happened in my own life and

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Speaker 2: then in the lives of the women that I that

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Speaker 2: I talk about. So then maybe just jumping off of

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Speaker 2: that for a sec, what would that What would we

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Speaker 2: do now that now that we know that there's been

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Speaker 2: all this long line of not doing it? What how

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Speaker 2: do we wake up to this fact in our lives?

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Speaker 2: Some women are awake to the fact that they don't

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Speaker 2: have a voice, some aren't.

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Speaker 1: But what would we do next? Right? And so what

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Speaker 1: I see again culturally is sort of two extremes. Is

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Speaker 1: we either go to one extreme, which is well I'll

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Speaker 1: just keep my voice quiet, or then those other extrement

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Speaker 1: is I'll just I don't care about anybody else anymore.

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna shout as loudly as I can and

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Speaker 1: make it all about my voice, right, And that's neither

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Speaker 1: kind of what I'm trying to do in this is

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Speaker 1: thread that needle, of that middle ground of small, brave steps.

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Speaker 1: And in many ways it starts like this whole question

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Speaker 1: what do I want? It doesn't start we don't have

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Speaker 1: to start with like the loftiest, biggest, you know. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: it starts with what do I need today? What's one

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Speaker 1: thing today that my body needs to be healthy? What's

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Speaker 1: one thing today that I need emotionally? And just being

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Speaker 1: a little bit more intentional with those tiny things. Don't

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Speaker 1: pick your biggest, hardest thing, like what's one that you

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Speaker 1: know today I'm tired? What's one thing I need to

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Speaker 1: do or want to do for myself today now? Because

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Speaker 1: then I'm going to have to use my voice to

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Speaker 1: to ask for that or to get that right. And

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Speaker 1: so it starts with this noticing, you know, even before

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Speaker 1: we speak it, it starts with this noticing kind of

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Speaker 1: beginning to go what is going on with me today?

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Speaker 1: What am I feeling? What's my body feeling? How am

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Speaker 1: I feeling emotionally? What do I need? What's something that

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Speaker 1: I kind of want? And just kind of starting small,

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Speaker 1: but just noticing. It's really that paying attention again to

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Speaker 1: our own inner longings and our ownselves. And again it

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Speaker 1: doesn't have to start with your deepest you know, what

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Speaker 1: I want is never have to work again. Well I

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Speaker 1: might not want to start there, you know, but but

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Speaker 1: starting with those just little things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I love that a lot. And the idea

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Speaker 2: that's coming to my mind is that of trust. Can

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Speaker 2: we trust ourselves? We trust our own intuition, our own feeling,

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Speaker 2: our own thought about what's happening too. Sometimes I think

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Speaker 2: that's missing. I've noticed that in myself too. Do I

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Speaker 2: trust that confidence has grown in me over time? Yeah? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: as I practice what you're saying, like noticing and practicing

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Speaker 2: and trying, and then confidence was like a fruit of

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Speaker 2: that to where it didn't take me as long to

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Speaker 2: decide that it was okay to feel this or think

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Speaker 2: this or speak it.

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Speaker 1: Definitely a journey, so we second guessed ourselves. I love

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Speaker 1: that you're saying confidence as a fruit. I love that

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Speaker 1: you're saying that because that does map on. I do

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Speaker 1: think that is a fruit. There's a way in which

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Speaker 1: that maybe it maps on a little bit to if

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Speaker 1: we think of the fruit of the spirit, you know,

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Speaker 1: self control, but just that that that ability to take

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Speaker 1: charge of our lives and know what we need. Like

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Speaker 1: so for example, and I'm like, I need to not

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Speaker 1: be on social media today because I know, like that's

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Speaker 1: just an example. But having the confidence in us, I

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Speaker 1: can guess myself and say, oh, no, it's fine, just

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Speaker 1: do it, you know, or just do what other people

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Speaker 1: want you to do, or just just do this thing

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Speaker 1: someone No, I know this is going to be healthy

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Speaker 1: for me today. This is the step I need to take.

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Speaker 1: That fruit grows over time with practice. I love how

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Speaker 1: you say that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you mentioned in what you just said the

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Speaker 2: idea of self control. In my new book, which I've

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Speaker 2: been talking to my community about a lot, I do

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Speaker 2: spend a couple paragraphs on the idea of self control

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Speaker 2: as something I used to think was so you only

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Speaker 2: use it to not do the things you're not supposed

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Speaker 2: to do? Yes, right, isn't that the connotation?

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's the fruit of the spirit that I hesitate

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Speaker 1: to say the most. And yet because of what you're

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Speaker 1: saying it's like I've got to control myself, you know this, right,

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Speaker 1: And I'm not supposed to do that.

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Speaker 2: You're not supposed to gossips or not supposed to whatever,

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Speaker 2: not eat a donut today, whatever.

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Speaker 1: But I started thinking about it.

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Speaker 2: It's a fruit of the spirit, which means there is

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Speaker 2: a goodness to it. So then I was was like, well,

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Speaker 2: maybe the maybe the fruit of the spirit of self

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Speaker 2: control can.

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Speaker 1: Be used to choose good I love that and so

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Speaker 1: that was a switch for me. So, yes, we can't.

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Speaker 2: Self control is not just a hard thing I have

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Speaker 2: to do to not do something. I can harness that

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Speaker 2: good energy of the spirit, right.

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Speaker 1: That's right. That gives me the you know again, I'm

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Speaker 1: almost I'm tempted about your to use your word, this

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Speaker 1: word confidence, but it gives me the freedom, yeah, to

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Speaker 1: actually navigate through this day in a way with agency. Right.

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Speaker 1: I think agency can also map onto self control. It's

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Speaker 1: self leadership. It's not that sort of clamping down on myself. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's beautiful.

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Speaker 2: I love the word agency. I've been using it NonStop

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Speaker 2: for a few months now just because I love it.

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Speaker 2: It just I have When I say I have agency,

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Speaker 2: I know something just happens inside of me. That feels

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Speaker 2: so good, because it's very easy to feel trapped. Often

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Speaker 2: my circumstances are people or even my own thoughts. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but when I remind myself.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I have a choice here, I have a truck.

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Speaker 1: A door opens, right it is, and it's a door

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Speaker 1: exactly that gets to what do I actually want, which

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Speaker 1: gets to it's a muscle that I have to develop,

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Speaker 1: which is to learn what do I want? And I

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Speaker 1: only am going to be able to learn how to

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Speaker 1: do that through a little bit of practice and giving

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Speaker 1: myself permission to try exactly wonderful.

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Speaker 2: I knew I was going to enjoy my conversation with you.

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Speaker 2: I could tell in your writing it. Again, I'm just

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Speaker 2: going to point it out because I think it's important.

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Speaker 2: We don't always notice the nuance of how practical you're being.

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Speaker 2: And again, I'll use the word formational and spiritual formation.

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Speaker 2: It's it's important to know that we have choices and

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Speaker 2: we can take them incrementally as we're able and experimentally.

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Speaker 1: Right, and experimentally, we don't incrementally and experience. We just

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Speaker 1: came up with a new day. I know I can

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Speaker 1: feeling you, and I can just riff all day. This

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Speaker 1: is great experimentally, I mean incrementally and experimentally, maybe I

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Speaker 1: try something and then I'm like, oh that isn't actually

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Speaker 1: what That's okay? You know, that's why you want to

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Speaker 1: start with small things.

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Speaker 2: Of course, yes, yes, yes, I could not agree more. Well,

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Speaker 2: I wonder if we could well continue after the break.

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Speaker 2: Let's circle back to the word selfish. I think you

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Speaker 2: might have said it earlier sometimes or maybe I did,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. Sometimes we think it's selfish to be

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Speaker 2: even having this conversation about me, me, me and I

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Speaker 2: get to have a voice talk to us about how

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Speaker 2: this might may or may not be selfish.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that I talk about a little bit. This

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Speaker 1: was my you know, twenty year journey with this was

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Speaker 1: I went through a period of time I was a therapist.

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Speaker 1: I've really been conditioned. I'm high in empathy, and then

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Speaker 1: I'm taught only focus on other people, put yourself last,

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Speaker 1: you know, And then I'm trained do you know how

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Speaker 1: to do that? As a and then you know, I

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Speaker 1: found myself in my early thirties just completely burnt out, rundown,

401
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Speaker 1: bottomed out because I only know how to focus outwardly

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Speaker 1: and have no clue what I need. And I remember

403
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Speaker 1: vividly and I was, I was just bottomed out. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I had to take a time out. I had to

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Speaker 1: take a break, meaning just takes some time off school,

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Speaker 1: off grad school, and I this question popped into my

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Speaker 1: mind and it was what do I want? You know?

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Speaker 1: And it was just this weird moment of and the

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Speaker 1: answer surprised me, and so I you know, that was

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Speaker 1: my own beginning. You know, that was you know, twenty

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Speaker 1: years ago, but it was my own beginning of that

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Speaker 1: is not a selfish question. It's it's actually a really

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Speaker 1: imperative question. And so in the book what I do.

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Speaker 1: But but but when I if you ask what do

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Speaker 1: you want? And I'll ask my clients, you know, they'll

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Speaker 1: come in and they'll say, well, so and so thinks

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Speaker 1: I should do this, and so and so thinks I

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Speaker 1: should do that, and so and so thinks this, and

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Speaker 1: never to be I'll say, what do you think? What

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Speaker 1: do you want? And it's almost always this deer in

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Speaker 1: the headlights, right, and you know, what if what I

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Speaker 1: want is selfish? What if what I want? You know,

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Speaker 1: and we immediately go there. It's so fascinating to me

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Speaker 1: and so I have this exercise. First of all, I

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Speaker 1: say it's conceptually what I would say is selfhood. Selfishness

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Speaker 1: is saying it's all about me. We're not after that.

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Speaker 1: Self Lessness is saying it's never about me. When it's

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Speaker 1: at an extreme, that's not healthy either. Selfhood, this idea

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Speaker 1: of having a true self is it is about me,

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Speaker 1: and it's also about you. And so, and the best

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Speaker 1: way that I can be healthy in my relationship with

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Speaker 1: you is to understand who I am, what I need,

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Speaker 1: and what I want, so that I can also understand

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Speaker 1: what you need and you want, and so that together

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Speaker 1: we can create something beautiful. And so what I do

436
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,399
Speaker 1: in chapter one is kind of have this exercise of

437
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,439
Speaker 1: just just start brainstorming, you know, just start writing down

438
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 1: what do I want? And women are always shocked it's

439
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 1: not rare. Yeah, yeah, sure, there's a few selfish things

440
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 1: on there, you know, but inevitably it's like I want peace,

441
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 1: I want my kids to be healthy, I want my

442
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,399
Speaker 1: marriage to be thriving, I want good friends. It's not

443
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 1: selfish stuff nine times out of ten that we actually

444
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 1: want deep inside, right, Yeah, I think you're right.

445
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,640
Speaker 2: There is a lot. There are a lot of good

446
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 2: things we want, and we don't even give ourselves permission

447
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 2: to look at them and acknowledge them.

448
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 1: I mean, and this is.

449
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 2: Classic, I mean classic old spiritual wisdom, right, the ignacious,

450
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 2: this question.

451
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,160
Speaker 1: What do you want? Yeah? What brings you side?

452
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:30,880
Speaker 2: Yeah?

453
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: Yeah?

454
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 2: And they didn't seem to think that it mattered that

455
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 2: we're asking that question, and they actually felt that that

456
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 2: question leads to you finding out God's will.

457
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 1: That's right. It's like what shock? How can that? It's

458
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 1: just us and you go? Isn't like all these things

459
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 1: that I actually want I don't know how to get,

460
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,639
Speaker 1: I'm sure, but what if they are actually the path to,

461
00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 1: you know, the life that God wants to help us forge?

462
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 1: I agree?

463
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, God has made us. I've been this phrase from

464
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 2: someone thirty nine, fearfully and wonderfully made. That's been hovering

465
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 2: in my mind now for a few weeks, and just

466
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,439
Speaker 2: reveling in how gracious God has been to gift us

467
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 2: with these bodies and these minds and hearts and the

468
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 2: nervous system and so complicated, so complicated, and yet fearfully

469
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 2: and wonderfully made, and that He would allow that or

470
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,639
Speaker 2: place within us, or gift us with desires, yes, and.

471
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 1: That that would mean something.

472
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 2: And as you were mentioning earlier about the church, sometimes

473
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 2: you get messages you can't you can't have a desire

474
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 2: and you can't have an emotion. You know, it's got

475
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 2: to be the caboose or whatever they used to say. Whatever,

476
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 2: all that is, Well, it's important to know that there's

477
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 2: so much God given here.

478
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,160
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and that we could.

479
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 2: Wisely, with discernment, tease out this goodness exactly, and in

480
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 2: so many ways, one of which is by reading your

481
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 2: book and enacting what you're saying. Oh, there's just so

482
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 2: many ways to arm out all these things.

483
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, I wholeheartedly agree. Yeah. I think it's C. S.

484
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 1: Lewis who said it's not that our desires are too small.

485
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,200
Speaker 1: It's no, it's not that our desires are too great.

486
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: It's that they're too small. It's that we settle for

487
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 1: playing in the mud, playing in the mud, instead of

488
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: for desiring the gorgeous, beautiful things God wants for Usdent

489
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 1: Lewis said some version of that.

490
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah, it's like

491
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,159
Speaker 2: you're stetying for a tea spoon when you could have

492
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 2: the ocean or something someone else's it's yeah, so yeah,

493
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 2: I would love to be.

494
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 1: A more expansive person.

495
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 2: And I'm finding that it happens, as you said, one

496
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,360
Speaker 2: one step, one day at a time. The expansion occurs

497
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 2: over time.

498
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 1: That's just how it works.

499
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 2: But I'm wondering, can we let's look at Jesus for

500
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 2: a minute now and even shift from selfishness to the

501
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 2: idea of boundaries, which was the theme of your other book.

502
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 2: But what can we learn from Jesus when it comes

503
00:25:55,359 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 2: to this self empowering and even boundaries? How does that

504
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 2: happen in a healthy way?

505
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so kind of where again with this idea

506
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: of selfhood? Where I go is Jesus had a strong

507
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 1: sense of self, and I think self a strong sense

508
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: of self is the foundational step too healthy boundaries. Most

509
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: people want to start right at the boundaries. I need

510
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: better boundaries. Well, yes, most of us do. But boundaries

511
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 1: flow from a strong sense of self. Otherwise we're in

512
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 1: jeopardy of kind of either you know, shutting everybody out

513
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 1: in our boundaries get off track. You know, we're either

514
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: shutting out things that we don't want to shut out,

515
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,159
Speaker 1: or we're you know, if we're not connected again to

516
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 1: that strong sense of self. Our yeses and nos are

517
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 1: not necessarily going to reflect this beautiful soul that God made.

518
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 1: And so the more we are kind of connecting in

519
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: to that strong sense of self, the more our yeses

520
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: and our nose become really clear, become really powerful, become

521
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 1: really a reflection of who God made us to be.

522
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,680
Speaker 1: And we see that example in Jesus. Jesus had the

523
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: yeses and nos, and I go through you know, I

524
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 1: researched this. I went through it in the book. Like

525
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 1: the yeses and nos he said are very clear, they're

526
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: very powerful. He said no to a lot of things.

527
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: He said yes to taking time for himself, you know.

528
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 1: And you can just tell he knows what he needs

529
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 1: in any given moment. And he also knows in these

530
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: different interactions he's having with other people how to respond

531
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 1: in nuanced ways. He doesn't respond to everybody in the

532
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 1: same way. He's present, he's centered, he knows, he has

533
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: a strong sense of self. He's connected to God, he's

534
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: connected to himself, which allows him to enter into his

535
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 1: relationships with tremendous skill and dexterity where he's sometimes calling

536
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 1: people out. He's sometimes calling people into grace. It's just

537
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: an amazing example of this interplay of having a strong

538
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: sense of self being directed, you know, by that spirit

539
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: led place inside, and having really healthy boundaries with other people.

540
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm wondering if you have an idea on this.

541
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 2: As you're sharing, I'm realizing, you know, Jesus often withdrew

542
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 2: to lonely places to PRIs. We talk about how I only,

543
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 2: he says, I only do what the Father does. I

544
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 2: only say what the Father says, And how could we

545
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 2: borrow that, like practically speaking, what would it look like.

546
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 2: Jesus obviously modeled for us everything you just said, And

547
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 2: I can totally see that as I think about the gospels.

548
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 2: What do you think about his connection with the Father

549
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 2: and what that built into him and how that informed

550
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 2: his ability to do those things?

551
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think, well, he obviously had it

552
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: seamlessly connected in a way that I think we can

553
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: kind of glimpse, you know, every once while when you

554
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: just have that sense of I know, I'm but again,

555
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: what was interesting to me and we talked about this

556
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: more in boundaries for each old I did this spirit

557
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: led self and we pull on Henry Nollen's he talks

558
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 1: about there's a place in the side where we can

559
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: hold ourselves in truth meaning, And this is where I

560
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: think the thing with emotions is meaning we can witness

561
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: our own anger, all these different things that go on

562
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: as a result of the world around us, where we

563
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: kind of are honest with ourselves. We're not kind of

564
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: spiritually bypassing. We're not pretending like, oh we're just you know,

565
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: we're being honest with ourselves. But also the Holy Spirit

566
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: lives there too, so we're partnering. It's inside of us.

567
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 1: So there's a partnership there between us and God's spirit

568
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: where we are leading ourselves from that place. And so

569
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 1: it's not the absence of emotions. It's not the absence

570
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: and our fall and word of where we get activated,

571
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: where our nervous system goes into high gear, where we

572
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: have to kind of do the pause, We have to

573
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: take the breath, reconnect to that calm centered place inside

574
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: and not just ignore what happened. But I think what

575
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 1: the example is Jesus is is discern how do I

576
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 1: properly speak into this situation? Right? And somehow Jesus just

577
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: did that, you know, obviously in this but it wasn't again,

578
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: even in Jesus case, we see it wasn't the absence

579
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 1: of emotions. There was emotion. He was not a passionless

580
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: human as a human, so we know God is not passionless. Right,

581
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: The passions were there, but somehow he was able to

582
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: kind of bring all that in and be so directed

583
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: by God, by him his own experience of the world

584
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: to come out into his relationships with other people from

585
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: that centered place in the side. And we see him

586
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: doing that with anger. We see him again, we see

587
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: him doing that with a whole range of emotions, but

588
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: just never doing harm. You know, we sometimes our nervous

589
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: systems get the best of us and we, you know,

590
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: we fight, when really what we should do is speak

591
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: on behalf of our anger, you know that kind of yeah, yes,

592
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: oh my goodness.

593
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 2: Well that place you're talking about inside for me, yeah,

594
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 2: I feel like that place has been nurtured over the

595
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 2: course of my life through the practice of solitude and silence.

596
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 1: For me, I was.

597
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 2: Introduced to that when I was in my twenties because

598
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 2: I was just so hungry at that point. I just

599
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 2: remember being hungry for something more within the Christian life,

600
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 2: and God just brought mentors in and one of them

601
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 2: taught the practice of solitude and silence. And I've talked

602
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 2: about this for how I feel like it opened up

603
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 2: something inside of me. And as you're sharing this, I

604
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 2: know in part at least that there's a space inside

605
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 2: of me that exists because of that letting the you know,

606
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 2: letting all the dust settle and getting to that essence

607
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 2: that is at least a piece of what you're talking about.

608
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 2: That's the objective, objective observer or someone that can take

609
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 2: a step back and I have a spot to stand. Yes, yes,

610
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 2: So I'm wondering what you think about that or are

611
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 2: there other psychological or spiritual practices that help us nurture

612
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 2: that space in us?

613
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's so many different ones. It's really interesting in

614
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: the field of psychology as well. You know, one way

615
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: you could talk about it, so the Dan Siegel will

616
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: describe it, who's not as far as I know, I

617
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: don't know that he's a Christian site neurobiologist, but he

618
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,719
Speaker 1: will describe the window of tolerance, right, and you may

619
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: be familiar with that, which is this idea of it's

620
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: when our nervous system is regulated and we're operating out

621
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: of that calm clear, where our nervous system is kind

622
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 1: of in the perfect balance. Right, We're not in fight,

623
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: we're not in flight, we're just calmly regulated, that's a word.

624
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: And so there are ways physiologically right to breath work

625
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: different ways to help your What does it feel like

626
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 1: when I'm not in an activated state where my nervous

627
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: system isn't you know, going ninety to nothing, or I'm

628
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: going into that place of numbing shutting down. Neither of

629
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: itch reflects that calm, clear place. So there's a lot

630
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 1: of different ways to talk about it. You know, in

631
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: ifs they call it the self and boundary spree, So

632
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: we call it the spirit led self. That's what I

633
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: mean by the best of you. It's where you're at

634
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: that best of you, where you're calm, you're clear, you're connected.

635
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 1: You might even have emotions, but you're sort of tapping

636
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: into the best of who you are and who God

637
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: made you to be. And I do think we get

638
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: these glimpses of that. You know, we know. And the

639
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: more you get glimpses of that and you know what

640
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: it feels like to be operating out of that space,

641
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: the more you also become aware of oh, I'm not

642
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: in that place right now, and then you have the

643
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: ability to go, you know, to a spouse. You know,

644
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: I'm I'm, I'm activated. So this wouldn't be the best

645
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: time to have this card conversation, right. So it's actually

646
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: the more you experience what that's like, you know, and

647
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: I as we talk about the CEA wards, it's calm,

648
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: it's creativity, it's clear, it's centered, it's you know, it's

649
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: even when you're dealing with a really hard thing in

650
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: front of you, you're you're aware, I am, I'm on

651
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:53,719
Speaker 1: top of myself. I am I'm I'm leading myself right now.

652
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: My emotions aren't getting the best of me. Again, the

653
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: more you experience that and get these glimpses of that,

654
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: the more you also recognize getting to the question of

655
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: what do I want? What do I need? Is my

656
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 1: nervous system is really fraid today. What do I need

657
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: to return to that calm space. Do I need to

658
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 1: take a really slow walk because I'm trying to calm.

659
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: Do I need to go for a jog? Do I

660
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: need to sit in quiet? Right? I mean these this

661
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: is how we begin to get to how do I

662
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: return to that place? Yeah, I love that.

663
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, this week I noticed for myself, I just I

664
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 2: launched a book last month and we launched our membership

665
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 2: and then I'm a personal ideas. So now it's October.

666
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:47,439
Speaker 2: What am I doing next?

667
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 1: You know? But Monday I woke up and I was

668
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: just exhausted.

669
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 2: My body was just and so because of been practicing,

670
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 2: practicing this, it only took me. Well, I've been thinking

671
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:01,879
Speaker 2: one way for a few days. But Monday I woke

672
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 2: up and I started to realize, you know, if I

673
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 2: try to go to the next thing already, I'm going

674
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 2: to be pushing. It's not going to work for me

675
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 2: or for anybody else. And then relatively quickly I was

676
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 2: able to say, I'm going to push this off until

677
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 2: early next year because I just so I just needed

678
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 2: some space. But I could tell I was like, this

679
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 2: is too much. But you know, my natural is always like, oh,

680
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 2: what's fun?

681
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: What's next? And I realized, what if I.

682
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 2: Just enjoy what's going on right now for the rest

683
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 2: of the year and just maintain and dig in and

684
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 2: enjoy and nurture and then yeah, sure, let's do.

685
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: A couple of new things in January, which what's beautiful

686
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: about that example? It gets at that word. We were

687
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 1: talking about self control, right, it was to me what

688
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: you're describing as it's having the confidence to say, this

689
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 1: is what I need, right, and I need to kind

690
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: of cap some things, and I have the reserve and

691
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: the capacity to make that wise choice. In DBT that

692
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: here's another name for a dialectical behavioral therapy. They call

693
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 1: it wise mind. You know the why you know, the

694
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: wise mind kind of steps in and goes, this is

695
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,760
Speaker 1: the this is wisdom. This is a fruit of the spirit.

696
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,280
Speaker 1: And it's beautiful because it's not that you're inhibiting yourself.

697
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 1: It's it's a wise it's using your agency wisely on

698
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 1: behalf of what you actually need. You're going to be

699
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: more refreshed, You're going to be more renewed. When the

700
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: New York comes, all that excitement will still be there.

701
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: I hear you. It's it's a beautiful way of leading oneself,

702
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: but it does take practice, and then that's how you

703
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 1: build trust with yourself, right, because you now know, you know,

704
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: sometimes we get in the scarcity minds that parts of

705
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 1: us feel scarcely. We're like, but if I don't do

706
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 1: it now, I'll never get to do it. And it's

707
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 1: like no, no, no, remember last time, Remember when we

708
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: just took a little time off every the sky didn't fall,

709
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: the ceiling didn't fall, everything was you know, it's okay.

710
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 1: You know, we start to trust ourselves to make these

711
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: wise decisions on behalf of what we actually need. That's beautiful.

712
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks, Yeah, I did listen to that other voice

713
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 2: for a couple of weeks.

714
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: You don't do it now. If you don't do it now,

715
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 1: I know, oh no.

716
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 2: And then so then you can see how you can

717
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 2: get very heightened. But this is the thing about aging

718
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 2: that I'm noticing is that my energies have shifted and

719
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 2: my body. At times, I'm a relatively healthy woman. You

720
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:26,839
Speaker 2: look at me, I've got light in my eyes.

721
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 1: I'm healthy.

722
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 2: And yet there's still a shift of energies that I'm

723
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 2: noticing as I'm aging. And so I've had to really

724
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 2: learn every year to really listen because my body won't

725
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 2: let me cheat anymore.

726
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: I know. Yeah, it's so interesting because.

727
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 2: You know, sometimes you have an idea that feels like

728
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 2: it has a lot of energy, but your body's going WHOA.

729
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 1: Any health thing does that to you, and it is

730
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 1: a weird disjointed experience of and again needing that patience

731
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: with one self. Yeah, you know, to honor the both.

732
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 1: And I'm very curious listening to you by your enneagram type,

733
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 1: but I don't know if that's something you talk about

734
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 1: on you Oh yeah, yeah, I resonate with type seven.

735
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 2: That's what I was going to say, That's what I

736
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 2: hear in that.

737
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, just a lot of excitement, a lot of energy,

738
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: a lot of like let's let's go, go go, and

739
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:28,439
Speaker 1: having to kind of teach yourself how to just live within. Yeah,

740
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: that's beautiful.

741
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 2: That's been my it's been my life's inner work that

742
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 2: you know, because the five or the seven goes towards

743
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 2: the five, and I'm married to five, which is beautiful.

744
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

745
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 2: So he there's a calming, solid presence that he provides

746
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 2: that I you know, ride the wake up sometimes. But

747
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 2: also that but you can I can also see why

748
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 2: the practice of silence and solitude has helped me and

749
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 2: grounded me so much. So it softens the edges of

750
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,800
Speaker 2: the over idealistic, you know, fluttering mind. And so I

751
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 2: feel like at this age, I'm in a beautiful season

752
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,720
Speaker 2: where I've practiced and I've learned and I can focus

753
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 2: what I want to do. You know, I can still

754
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 2: get excited about it. But it's you know, I can

755
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 2: only do so many things.

756
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: That's beautiful. Yeah, it's good words, it's interesting anyway. Yeah,

757
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 1: the three it's different. I'm a three. It's a little

758
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: different in the sense that it's but it's a similar.

759
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: It's a similar go go go and learning to teach

760
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,720
Speaker 1: train my body toward being.

761
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, we can all use a little being these days.

762
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: Huh. Yeah, there's a lot. Oh. I feel like we

763
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: could just go on and on.

764
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,839
Speaker 2: I'm sad to say that we're gonna We're gonna wrap

765
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 2: it up here, but I want to ask there's always

766
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 2: the last question of you know, we've talked now for

767
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 2: whatever forty minutes, can you bring us home? Like, what's

768
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 2: one thing we can think about or practice now as

769
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 2: a woman has listened to this, Yeah, what can we do?

770
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: What's our next move? You know, I think just beginning,

771
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm love where you and I both are

772
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: just kind of talking it through in how it applies

773
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: in our own lives, but just beginning to notice, you know,

774
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 1: even as you wake up in the morning, what is

775
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 1: it that I need today? What does my body need

776
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 1: what is what's going to bring me life? Do I

777
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 1: need to schedule a call with a friend? Do I

778
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: need to? And just paying attention to that, right, getting

779
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 1: curious and even if you don't know, the other thing

780
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 1: that I've started doing, you know, is getting up and

781
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 1: going you know. And again this sounds so like how,

782
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 1: you know, doing a little inventory. How am I feeling today,

783
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 1: you know, checking before I just hit the ground running.

784
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: What am I tired today? Is there anything that needs attention?

785
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 1: Is there any kind of emotion that's lurking, you know,

786
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 1: just attending to them. I don't have to like maybe

787
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 1: I might journal, but also just kind of again it's

788
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 1: that building trust. It's like, oh, I notice I've got

789
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 1: something on my mind today. That's a little bit of

790
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 1: a worry. I'm not going to like stop everything, but

791
00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna be again, be noticed, be curious, and

792
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: also be be mindful of that, just in small ways,

793
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: and that I think that first step of just noticing

794
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 1: it starts starts to help us lead ourselves better through

795
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: the day.

796
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, thank you for leaving us with that word.

797
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 2: That's one of my favorite words too, is notice. It's

798
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 2: the beginning of everything to see see.

799
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 1: What's going on right exactly exactly.

800
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 2: So thank you so much.

801
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 1: How can we be in touch with you online or

802
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 1: social media? Yeah, yeah, it's my books are anywhere books

803
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: are sold. The best of you I read. It's on

804
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 1: audible if you want to. If you like to listen

805
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 1: to books, it's a good one to listen to. My

806
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: website is doctor Alisoncook dot com. I send out a

807
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: weekly email and then I'm on Instagram and Facebook at

808
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 1: doctor Alison Cook.

809
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, follow her on Instagram. I follow you, and

810
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 2: I love she's always doing these great reels, very practical,

811
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 2: very helpful. So again, it's just been a delight to

812
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 2: talk with you.

813
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Thank you. I appreciate it.

814
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 2: Thank you for joining me on the Unhurrid Living podcast.

815
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 2: You can download free resources and learn more about us

816
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 2: at Unhurried Living dot com, and please subscribe and share

817
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 2: this podcast with your friends and colleagues. We'd also like

818
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 2: to thank our partner Life Audio. Check out their other

819
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 2: faith centered podcasts at lifeaudio dot com. Blessings to you

820
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 2: as you make your way