1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,440 Speaker 1: The world is becoming increasingly proficient at telling stories that 2 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: deny God. As such, we need Thinking Christian to become 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: as natural as breathing. Welcome to the Thinking Christian podcast. 4 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: I'm doctor James Spencer, and through calm, thoughtful theological discussions, 5 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: Thinking Christian highlights the way God is working in the 6 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: world and questions the underlying social, cultural, and political assumptions 7 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: that hinder Christian's from becoming more like Christ. Now onto 8 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: today's episode of Thinking Christian. Hey, everyone, welcome to this 9 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:33,319 Speaker 1: episode of Thinking Christian. I'm doctor James Spencer and I'm 10 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:37,279 Speaker 1: joined today by Greg Harris. Greg is the executive director 11 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:41,520 Speaker 1: of Counteract International, and he's written a book called Counteract 12 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:46,919 Speaker 1: Walking alongside incarcerated youth in Central America From Prison to Purpose, 13 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: and so we're going to be talking a little bit 14 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 1: about the book today. We're also going to be talking 15 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: about Counteract International and I'm just happy to welcome Greg here. 16 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 2: Greg, how are you this morning? 17 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 3: Hey, James, I'm fine. Thanks for the invitation, Glad to 18 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 3: join you on your podcast. 19 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: Asked absolutely. This is the second time we're meeting. Greg 20 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: is part of a Bible study I run on Wednesday 21 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: mornings and so we we spent the wee hours together 22 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: this morning already. 23 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're leading us through Hebrews, which is a great study, 24 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 3: so thanks for doing that as well. 25 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 1: Absolutely well, Greg, tell us a little bit about Counteract 26 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 1: International before we jump into the book, like, give us 27 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: a sense of what this ministry is. And you know, 28 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 1: we got the chance to talk at in our be 29 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: convention and you told me a little bit about the 30 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: history of Counteract when you came on. And I think 31 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 1: that'd be helpful for viewer or for listeners and viewers 32 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: just to understand what this is and where it emerged from. 33 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:40,759 Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely well. 34 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 3: About twenty five years ago, a businessman from here in 35 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 3: the Hampton Roads, Virginia area, one to serve orphans, and 36 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 3: he was part of a international business network YPO if 37 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 3: people know what that is, Young Entrepreneurs organization. He sent 38 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 3: out a message to his international network asking where he 39 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:01,919 Speaker 3: could serve orphans because that had been on his heart. 40 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 3: He got one response from somebody in El Salvador who said, Hey, 41 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 3: we have some orphans down here that could use some help. 42 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 3: Hop on a plane, come down, I'll show you around. 43 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 4: So he did. 44 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 3: He went down, he looked around and where he saw 45 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 3: the greatest need was in the government run orphanages, so 46 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 3: they were just in horrible conditions. So he came back, 47 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 3: got his local network together to start raising money to 48 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,119 Speaker 3: go back on a trip to start doing infrastructure projects, 49 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 3: repairing sewer lines and toilets and light fixtures and so forth, 50 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 3: so these kids could have a better condition of living. 51 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 3: And soon thereafter the government of l Salvador said, well, 52 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 3: we also have these juvenile detention centers that we really 53 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 3: could use help in, so he started working there as well, 54 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 3: and that's how the mission grew, both in government run 55 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:00,519 Speaker 3: orphanages and government run juvenile detention centers. So that has 56 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,239 Speaker 3: been the niche over the last twenty five years is 57 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 3: to partner with the governments of El Salvador, Honduras and 58 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,519 Speaker 3: now Guatemala to work in their juvenile detention centers. And 59 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 3: about twelve years ago, soon after I came on board, 60 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 3: the government started shutting down their orphanages, their public run orphanages, 61 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 3: but God started opening more doors to additional juvenile detention centers. 62 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 3: So we went all in on the juvenile detention centers 63 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 3: and in a few months it went from about like 64 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 3: I said, fifty to fifty orphanages juvenile detention centers to 65 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 3: ninety percent juvenile detention centers, and now we're totally in 66 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 3: juvenile detention centers and have built the ministry. 67 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 4: Around that model. 68 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 3: And in the course of that we changed the name 69 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 3: from Orphan Helpers to Counteract International because these youth have 70 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 3: faced so many things and adversities and obstacles and challenges 71 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 3: in their life. They just need help someone sind beside 72 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 3: them to help guide them through those challenges. 73 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 2: And we didn't really get into those at an NRB. 74 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: But when I don't know that, I have a great 75 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: context for juvenile detention centers. You know, I knew friends 76 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: even in the States who went to JUVIE, but I 77 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 1: never really understood what it was. You know, you just 78 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: get the sense that this is a prison for youngsters. 79 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: Is that really what it is? And if so, what 80 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: sort of what sort of crimes are leading people there? 81 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: Is it that same sort of span we might think 82 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: of to something you know, relatively innocent like theft or 83 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: something like that, up to more violent crimes? 84 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 2: Is that the range of it it is? 85 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:45,799 Speaker 3: And they find them in the detention centers from eleven 86 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 3: twelve years old. There spoke, many of them supposed to 87 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 3: be out when they turn eighteen. El Salvador has an 88 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 3: intermediate center for youth who've reached eighteen but still have 89 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 3: time left on their sentence. So it's in between the 90 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 3: adult correctional centers and the juvenile detention centers, and a 91 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 3: lot of times they'll keep them in there beyond eighteen, 92 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 3: quite frankly, so that they don't go to the detention centers. 93 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 3: So typically twelve to eighteen, but it can be a 94 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 3: little younger, little older. And for your question about offenses, yes, 95 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 3: it is everything from extortion extortion. Extortion is rampant in 96 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 3: those communities, but it is also homicides and very violent 97 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 3: crimes and a lot of gang crimes as well. 98 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, you talk a little bit about you know, in 99 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: the book, you deal with the situation, and so I'm 100 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: wondering if you can just help people get a sense 101 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: of the context. Again, you know, living in the States, 102 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: I think sometimes we don't have a good sense of 103 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 1: what life is like in some of these other international 104 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: areas where this would be a problem in need of 105 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: a real solution. 106 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 2: So maybe paint that picture for us. 107 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, So you know, even stepping back further. You know, 108 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 3: many times we hear of his kids as animals, as gangsters, 109 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 3: and quick to label them without really taking a step 110 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 3: back and looking at where they grew up, the environments 111 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:32,799 Speaker 3: that they encountered. And so yeah, there again the northern 112 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 3: triangle of Central America's hunteras El Salvador and Guatemala, which 113 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 3: has historically been a very violent place. In the last 114 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:45,160 Speaker 3: few years that has changed, particularly in El Salvador under 115 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 3: the new president, crime has been brought to record lows. 116 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 3: But again, historically all three countries were typically in the 117 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 3: top ten of murder capitals nationwide homicides per capita. And 118 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 3: so these kids grow up in this environment of crime 119 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 3: and violence. There's lots of poverty, you know. 120 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 4: And also lack of education. 121 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 3: Education levels are on average just a little over six 122 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 3: years of education for an adult, where in the US 123 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 3: we have, you know, about thirteen years average education for 124 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 3: an adult. And broken homes, so many single mom homes. 125 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 3: You will find the male in the house has either 126 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 3: left the family for someone else, has left and run 127 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 3: to the US to seek work, has died, or is 128 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 3: in prison, or is alcoholic. 129 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 4: And so these kids. 130 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 3: Grow up without strong home where they come from and 131 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 3: so those are the things, the poverty, the crime and violence, 132 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 3: the lack of education, the lack of opportunity, lack of 133 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 3: opportunity that so many are in go into informal jobs. 134 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 3: There are not a lot of formal job opportunities. So 135 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 3: when you compile all that on top of each other, 136 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:18,239 Speaker 3: these kids are have a battle the time they're born 137 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 3: and that they're facing these adversities. 138 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: I don't know whether you know, but you talked about 139 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: the government sort of shuddering a lot of the government 140 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: run orphanages. It would seem that that would have an 141 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: adverse effect on what's going on in the juvenile detention 142 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: centers to some degree? 143 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 2: Was that the case? 144 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,959 Speaker 1: Did you see sort of an increase of kids that 145 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: were essentially orphaned, but they end up in the juvenile 146 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: detention center? So you are still working with a lot 147 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: of folks who would have been orphans, you're just working 148 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: with them in a different context. 149 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 3: Well, well, that's right, and but that's also in the 150 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 3: US too, right, Yeah, I mean kids who grew up 151 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 3: in foster care. It's the crossover population from If they 152 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 3: don't find a good stable foster home, they end up 153 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 3: going in and out of foster homes, in and out 154 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 3: of juvenile detention centers, and back and forth between the 155 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 3: child welfare system and the juvenile justice system. So that's 156 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 3: the reality when there's no one there guiding them. 157 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:19,959 Speaker 2: And so how much of that do you deal with? 158 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: I know when we talked previously, you talked a lot 159 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: about the relationships that you've built and that being really central. 160 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: Though a lot of the work you're doing, you work 161 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: pretty closely with the government. 162 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,199 Speaker 2: Then in these scenarios, yes. 163 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 3: Right, So it is our niche is partnering with the governments. 164 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 3: They allow us to go into their detention centers and 165 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 3: to provide faith based education, life skills, leadership mentoring. We're 166 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 3: doing some computer skills, some English classes, trauma counseling. So 167 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 3: they are open. They welcome our faith based model into 168 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 3: their system. And because they know they can't do it 169 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 3: all and they need to partner with other organizations to 170 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:08,079 Speaker 3: help provide these services. 171 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 4: So that's where we start. 172 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 3: We start by going in and sending in teachers full time, 173 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 3: and we're in thirteen juvenile detention centers across all three countries, 174 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 3: and the teachers go in every day to start working 175 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 3: with the youth and really our focus is the juvenile 176 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 3: because they're at their lowest and least at that point 177 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 3: in time. They've been arrest they've built up through all 178 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 3: these conditions. Now they find themselves locked up in these 179 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 3: juvenile detention centers that are really frankly harsh places, and 180 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 3: they are very vulnerable and open to seeing if there's 181 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 3: a new path in life, and so our team mentors 182 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 3: them and directs them to another way. And it's all 183 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 3: built quite around the book when Helping Herbs and Helping 184 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 3: Herts talks about restoring the four key relationships. We're not 185 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 3: just in there to provide vocational training or purely mentoring, 186 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 3: but connecting the kids to their creator, to themselves, helping 187 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 3: them develop their self worse self dignity, to restoring relationships 188 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 3: with their family and friends. Forgiveness is a huge issue 189 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 3: that when you ask what's most impactful to them, they 190 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 3: took about forgiveness because it has really been they've grown 191 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 3: up an eye for an eye and revenge mentality. And 192 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:37,079 Speaker 3: then also the last relationship of contributing to the community 193 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 3: at large, to be restoring their communities and using the 194 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 3: gifts that God has given them to improve their neighborhoods 195 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 3: instead of taking away and destroying those communities. 196 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it's amazing that the governments don't 197 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: have any problem bringing in a faith based organization like that. 198 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 1: Sort of the desperation they're feeling is that they're going 199 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: to take help from any sector they can find. And 200 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: so because my understanding is, and I just did a 201 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: little looking in some of the countries you all are in, 202 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: they'd be primarily Catholic, if not more charismatic, just in composition. 203 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: If we were going to name a Christian denomination, that 204 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: is that your experience with it or do I have 205 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: that right? 206 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 4: Yeah? 207 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, And you'll you'll go into the they're heavily 208 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 3: Catholic countries, and you'll go into the government offices in 209 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 3: the conference room, and you will have pictures of Mary 210 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 3: and of the Lord's Supper and right there in the 211 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 3: conference room. So it's it's a lot different than than 212 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 3: here in the US. 213 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's just sort of an openness to it that's 214 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: that's not here. And the humanitarian aspect of what you're 215 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: doing is certainly welcomed. But then also the gospel aspect 216 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:00,319 Speaker 1: is not opposed because it's it's sort of a country 217 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 1: already steeped in a lot of that. 218 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, right, And a lot of these kids some have 219 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 3: had exposure uh to faith, either a grandparent has taken 220 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 3: them to mass. 221 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 4: Or something that. 222 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 3: But but it was never really uh in great you know, 223 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 3: again without the man in the house, who who is 224 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 3: really a band in the family, these kids let them 225 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 3: grow up without direction, and then they turned to the streets, 226 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,199 Speaker 3: right they turn They turned to the streets looking for belonging, 227 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 3: for safety. 228 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 4: Uh. 229 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 3: And that's that's the lure that really attracts them to 230 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 3: join in the street games. 231 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: Really interesting, I wondered if you talk, you know, the 232 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 1: book is great. I think it gives a really clear 233 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: picture of your ministry. Why don't we start with sort 234 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: of why you felt now was a good time to 235 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: write the book. You guys have obviously made a number 236 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: of transitions. You've been there for twelve years, you've made 237 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: this shift over to the gymnal detention centers. 238 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 2: But why now? Why the book? 239 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 3: Well, we've collected stories over the years and testimonies of 240 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 3: these youths, and we just had they were sitting there 241 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 3: and we really wanted to show God's amazing grace, how 242 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 3: he is transforming in their lives, not to keep it 243 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 3: hidden under a bushel and to ourselves, but to share, 244 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 3: to testify, to provide a testimony of what God is doing, 245 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 3: how he's taking some of these lives that people have 246 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 3: written off and that they you know, society has said 247 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 3: these kids are good for nothing, but to show no, 248 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 3: they still have work. They are created by God, and 249 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 3: that with some mentoring and some guidance education, that they 250 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 3: can be productive members of society. So we said, let's 251 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 3: let's put that down and describe the model and share 252 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 3: what we are doing. 253 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, what, Uh, you talk a little bit about the 254 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: battle within in chapter three? It was one of my 255 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: I would say, it's one of my favorite chapters. I'm 256 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: not exactly sure why it resonated, but it did. And so, 257 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: I don't know, talk a little bit about what you 258 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: mean by the battle within and uh, and then we 259 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: can kind of have a little bit more of a 260 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: conversation about it. 261 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. 262 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 3: So we talked about the the exterior battles, you know, 263 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 3: what they are facing in the environment, but they're also 264 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 3: facing the battle within. Okay, you you've encountered all this, 265 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 3: all this challenge. 266 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 4: What are you going to do with it. 267 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 3: You know, are are you going to uh just continue 268 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 3: to live in a in a life of poverty which 269 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 3: you've seen all around you, or are you going to 270 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 3: try to run to the US? You know before the 271 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 3: aren't cracked down in the last year on border the 272 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 3: you know, the boards wide open and welcoming of people 273 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 3: who from Central America. So are you going to get 274 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 3: on the beast the train and go with the coyotes 275 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 3: and the cartels to try to get to the US 276 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 3: which is a risky journey in itself and there are 277 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 3: certainly no guarantees when you get here. Or are you 278 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 3: going to follow a life of crime? 279 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 4: Again? 280 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 3: Are you the gangs that are offering you, uh, some income, 281 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 3: some safety, some belonging, but you know where that leads 282 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 3: as well? You know that's either going to lead to 283 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 3: an early death or adult prison. There's really no in 284 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 3: betweens there. It's not a successful life. 285 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 4: And so what you know. 286 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 3: What are you going to do? 287 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 4: What are you going to do? 288 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 2: Yeah? 289 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: Do you see them struggling? So again, this is just 290 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: my impressions. Correct me if I'm wrong, But from some 291 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: of the reading I did before the podcast, it really 292 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 1: does seem like even though you have these sort of 293 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 1: single parent homes. Even though you see fathers abandoning families 294 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: and those kind of things, there's still sort of a 295 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 1: more collective ethic within the countries you're in El Salvador, Guatemala, 296 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: that they have a deeper sense of belonging together. And 297 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: I'm wondering how that conflicts. You know, when you're talking 298 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:35,120 Speaker 1: about these alternatives that they have to essentially make a living, right, 299 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: how do you go about even surviving this? 300 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 2: That collective still has to be important. 301 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 1: I mean, these are people with mothers and grandmothers who seem, 302 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: again based on what I read, seem to have a 303 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: deep respect for that family linkage, and yet are being 304 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: drawn into these illegal and gang related activities. How much 305 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,199 Speaker 1: tension do you all experience? Is your sort of helping 306 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: people navigate that? If that's a correct perception, well. 307 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 3: That's right, and I should clarify also, So what we're 308 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 3: talking about here have been painting a general brush across this, right, 309 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 3: But we're really talking about these kids who end up 310 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 3: in juvenile detention and why they end up there. It's 311 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 3: not like one day they just wake up and say, 312 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:21,199 Speaker 3: you know, I think I just want to be a 313 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 3: gang banger, you know, and choose that life. It's how 314 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 3: they've grown up, how they nurture it. And so that 315 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 3: is the population I've been talking about. But that's not 316 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 3: to say that's the whole society, the whole community, because 317 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 3: you're right, it is intergenerational. You do see three generations 318 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 3: of family living together and very close knit families. But 319 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 3: so when you're talking about how do you what's that 320 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 3: tension between the family and seeing the youth end up 321 00:18:55,800 --> 00:19:00,479 Speaker 3: in detention, that's one of the most touching that we 322 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 3: see in the program because as the kids go through 323 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 3: our academy, our success Academy behind Bars, and they graduate 324 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 3: from that, we have graduation ceremonies in the detention centers 325 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 3: and we invite the families in and this is oftentimes 326 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:21,439 Speaker 3: the first time they've ever heard anybody applaud for their kids. 327 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 3: They've ever seen their kids receive a diploma, a certificate, 328 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:31,640 Speaker 3: And the emotion a lot between the mothers and the sons, 329 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 3: and the hugs and the crying and the tears that 330 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 3: happen at those graduations is amazing because you know, they 331 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 3: have the parents have challenges of their own too, right 332 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 3: while they're trying to raise these kids and then to 333 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 3: see their kids end up in juvenile detentions there, So 334 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 3: that is that's kind of one of those tensions where 335 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 3: they love their kids and that they're behind bars and 336 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 3: now seeing them actually get on a better path, you know. 337 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: I mean, as I was reading through that battle within 338 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 1: chapter what the passage that came to mind was when 339 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: Jesus is welcoming the little children. The disciples try to 340 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,120 Speaker 1: stop them, but Jesus welcomes the little children in, and 341 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: you know, it's juxtaposed with the conversation Jesus has with 342 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: the rich young man who you know, Jesus is saying, hey, 343 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: here's what you need to do. Give all your money 344 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: away to the poor and come and follow me, and 345 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: the rich home man goes away sad because he was 346 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: very wealthy. And then the next narrative, you have these 347 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:34,479 Speaker 1: little kids, these vulnerable, dependent little children coming to Jesus 348 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: and he says, unless you come to me like a 349 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: little child, you went hot under the Kingdom of God. 350 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: And so there's a deep sense in which I think 351 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: that dependence and vulnerability, that sense of it opens people up. 352 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:47,160 Speaker 2: To the Gospel. 353 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: And so I could also though see that how that 354 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: deep sense of dependence and vulnerability would close people off 355 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 1: that it would give them a sense of distrust of 356 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: any sort of person who's holding out a hand, offering 357 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 1: a solution, you know, providing some help. So how do 358 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: you all deal with those kind of tensions within the 359 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: juvenile centers where you're probably getting like really interesting responses 360 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: and varied responses to the message you're bringing. 361 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:17,120 Speaker 4: That's a great question, because you're right. 362 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 3: I mean, they have become distrustful of many of the 363 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 3: adults in life who've already abandoned them, and so how 364 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 3: do they know they can trust you. That's why our 365 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 3: teachers go in every day, you know, it's not once 366 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:35,239 Speaker 3: a month. It's to build that relationship. You know, we 367 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 3: do have a program, we do have our academy. We 368 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 3: do help them develop a life plan and a scholarship 369 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 3: program for when they get out, But the relationship is. 370 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:49,640 Speaker 4: At the heart of it. 371 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 3: That's really our secret sauce. One time we had another 372 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 3: organization come to us and say, we really like what 373 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,080 Speaker 3: you do, we'd like to learn how to do that. Well, 374 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,439 Speaker 3: can you lay out your processes and your procedures and 375 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,439 Speaker 3: your policies. And so we did, but at the end 376 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 3: of the meeting, it was like, you know, you can 377 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 3: do this, you can if you can go, but it's 378 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 3: probably not going to work unless you have someone there 379 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 3: who is showing the kids God's love and what that 380 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 3: looks like on a regular basis, because you know, as 381 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 3: it's saying goes, they don't care how much you know, 382 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 3: and they until they know how much you care. 383 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting. Do you use This was a question 384 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: I had, I just forgot to ask it. But your 385 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: teachers are they indigenous? So there these are people from 386 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: the general area or the specific community that you're working in. 387 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 4: That's right. 388 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 3: We have our organization is fifty eight right now and 389 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:54,919 Speaker 3: we have three of us in the US and the 390 00:22:55,119 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 3: other fifty five employees of Counteract or all durham Salvadorans 391 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:05,880 Speaker 3: and Guatemalans. They all come from the communities that they 392 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,439 Speaker 3: serve and have a heart for these kids and they 393 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 3: see it as they're calling, you know, something that they 394 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:20,360 Speaker 3: just really want to see not only their culture's changed, 395 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 3: but these individual kids' lives changed for the glory of God. 396 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,920 Speaker 1: So you're working in the juvenile detention centers, you know 397 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,400 Speaker 1: that some of these kids are eventually going to be released, 398 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: how do they interface with you or maybe they're not released. 399 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: Maybe that's just an assumption I have, you know, like 400 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: I guess that's the question. When a person is in 401 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: these juvenile detention centers, how long do you get to 402 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 1: work with them? In general, it does it very person 403 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: to person, So like somebody is in for a year 404 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: and then they're released, they go home or what have you, 405 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: Maybe you see them again or do you have them 406 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: for a much longer period of time both. 407 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 3: You know, we can see them for six months, a year, 408 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 3: two years, but then some sometimes they're there for six, seven. 409 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 4: Eight years that we've seen them. 410 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 3: So but that's another aspect of the ministry that has 411 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 3: grown over time. Before we were just behind bars, we 412 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 3: were just meeting them at their point of despair and 413 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,199 Speaker 3: not knowing what to do and working with them until 414 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 3: that time when they left the detention centers. But we 415 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:41,439 Speaker 3: realized that it's so important to help them during the 416 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 3: reintegration process back into the community so that you know. 417 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 4: To know where they're going to live. 418 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:49,639 Speaker 3: Many of them can't go back to the old neighborhoods 419 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 3: at crime infested neighborhoods that they can't go back to 420 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 3: the you know a lot of unresolved conflicts with gangs 421 00:24:55,440 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 3: that they can't step put back in those neighborhoods, and 422 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 3: some don't know how to get back into. 423 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 4: School or how to apply for a job. So we 424 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 4: have success coaches. 425 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 3: On the outside who are who walk with them through 426 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 3: that process. You know, they have developed a success plan, 427 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 3: a life plan behind bars what they're going to do, 428 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 3: and so when they get out, that success coach helps 429 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 3: them implement that plan and connect them to those opportunities, 430 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 3: to churches, to schools, to jobs. 431 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:31,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're looking at these, you know, these areas 432 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 1: seem like number one, it's nice that the government is 433 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 1: allowing you in and that this is a great ministry 434 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: for you all to have in these impoverished areas, in 435 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: these more difficult spaces, with these kids who are really 436 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: are just having a rough life. And so I think 437 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,880 Speaker 1: that's really cool. Do you see yourself expanding beyond these 438 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: areas or do you take it more opportunistically as a ministry, 439 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: you know, sort of are you planning, here's our next move? 440 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: Are you trying to build those relationships? Are you kind 441 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: of saying we're good with where we are. If another 442 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: opportunity opened up. We'd walked through that door when we 443 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: got there. 444 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 3: So Guatemala was the next phase. And we've been to 445 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 3: Guatemala for three years now. It had been you know, 446 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 3: we were in El Salvador and Honduras from the get go, 447 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 3: from the very early beginning of the ministry, and Guatemala 448 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 3: had been on our radar because it has some of 449 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:37,640 Speaker 3: the same characteristics of the other countries. But we were 450 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 3: just for other various reasons, weren't able to get there 451 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 3: until the last few years. And we're working on developing 452 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 3: that still, those relationships with the government and with other stakeholders. 453 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 4: So what we're doing now is going deeper than wider. 454 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,439 Speaker 3: Right where we're building out the model. Our vision is 455 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:06,400 Speaker 3: to be the world's best juvenile justice ministry internationally, so 456 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 3: that we have a model that whether you know we 457 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 3: go there or others take it and run with it. 458 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 3: That here's here's the plan, here's here's how you can 459 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 3: make it work in your country. 460 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 2: That's great. 461 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: Your chapter on the cost of inaction, I thought was 462 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: really important to talk through. 463 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 2: So let's let's switch to there. 464 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 1: So you've got this ministry, you're seeing these kids, you're 465 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: you're developing your system, you're going deeper. 466 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 2: What really is the cost of inaction here? Greg? 467 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 3: So, one of the stories we share in the book 468 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:47,639 Speaker 3: is this young woman who we were working with in 469 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 3: Guatemala last year, a year ago, and she had two 470 00:27:54,400 --> 00:28:00,160 Speaker 3: she was seventeen and she had two young children, and 471 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 3: we worked with her behind bars and then she got 472 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 3: out and we were working with her and trying to 473 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 3: help her get set up. She was living with her 474 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:14,959 Speaker 3: father and other siblings along with her two children, and 475 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:19,399 Speaker 3: she had taken one of her kids to school that 476 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 3: morning and was on the way back and a motorcycle 477 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 3: pulled up and shot her and killed her. And so 478 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 3: she leaves two young kids behind who'll never know their mother. 479 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:35,919 Speaker 3: And the. 480 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 4: It is just a heart wrenching. 481 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 3: You know, there wasn't enough time to help her either, 482 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 3: you know, whether that was a retaliation to find another 483 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 3: place to live. We had just been able to visit 484 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 3: her one or two times as she had settled back 485 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 3: into there, and so we didn't really dive deeper into Okay, 486 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 3: what are the needs? Can we really okay, what are 487 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 3: the challenges you're facing? But if we don't act, if 488 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 3: we don't act, then there would be more of these situations, 489 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 3: like I said, because that's the pivot time. We can 490 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 3: teach teach it behind bars, but the you know, the 491 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 3: rubber doesn't hit the road until you're outliving it, right, 492 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 3: and so to have someone to mentor you and guide 493 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 3: you through that time. So, like I said, the cost 494 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 3: of inaction is either gonna flee the country, continue in 495 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 3: life of crime, end up in adult prison, or in 496 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 3: early death. That those are the costs along with along 497 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 3: with and we talk about it in the book as well, 498 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 3: the spiritual tragedy. It's not just the human tragedy and 499 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 3: the national tragedy. These are the next generation for these countries, 500 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 3: and if they're killing each other, that's not good for 501 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 3: the future the country. So we talk about those in 502 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 3: the human tragedy, spiritual tragedy, and the National Tragedy. 503 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 2: It's always amazed as me. 504 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: You know, obviously I don't think prisons are even juvenile 505 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: prisons or you know, juvenile detention centers are fun places, 506 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: but they do offer structure, and they do offer a 507 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: degree of safety, you know, as opposed to what these 508 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: kids have been growing up in. And so when you 509 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: lose that structure, having those success coaches on the outside 510 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 1: to help you rebuild. It would seem to me just 511 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: to be so crucial, and the story you just shared 512 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: it obviously illustrates it. You've got to pull people back 513 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 1: into society in ways that are going to make their 514 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: choices broader, as opposed to putting them back in situations 515 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 1: where we already know what their choices are and without 516 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: that sort of structured approach to sort of pulling them 517 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: back into society. I mean, I suppose you know the 518 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: I don't even think it's like biblical or theological, but 519 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: you could see people saying, well, they should just make 520 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: a better choices, they should make choices in conforming to 521 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 1: Christ or whatever. And it's like, well, if you've never 522 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: been in that completely unstructured situation where you're not sure 523 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: where your next meal is coming from, where you're concerned 524 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: that people are going to come into your house and 525 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: kill you or what have you, you have no idea 526 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: how hard that would be. And I think there's just 527 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: something to that success Goes strategy you all are implementing. 528 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: That's really crucial there. 529 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, And that touches on another issue too, about a 530 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 3: chapter in the book called a Gospel that goes there. 531 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:46,479 Speaker 3: Like you said, you know, people say, why do you go, 532 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 3: why do you go to Central America? Don't we have 533 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 3: enough problems in America, you know? And a response to 534 00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 3: that is that, you know, in the US, it's not perfect, 535 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 3: but there are safety nets, right there are after school programs, 536 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 3: boys and girls clubs, big brothers, big sisters, you know, 537 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 3: the list goes on there. It's not perfect, but that 538 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 3: there are some safety nets. And in America there is 539 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 3: no net right and there there's nowhere for them to 540 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 3: go to. And so that's the importance of providing an opportunity. 541 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 3: And the other part about that, about a gospel that 542 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 3: goes there. 543 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 4: I mean, these are. 544 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 3: The kids and the people that Jesus told us about. 545 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,280 Speaker 4: They are the fatherless, they are the poor, they are 546 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 4: the prodigal, you know, they. 547 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 3: Are the despondent and those in despair that we're we're 548 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 3: called to minister too and to help. And there are neighbors, 549 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,479 Speaker 3: you know there. 550 00:32:58,880 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 4: Right out of our back door. 551 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 3: It's you know, I can get to I can get 552 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 3: to under Sel Salvador faster, I can get to California. 553 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 3: So I mean there are neighbors. 554 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we shouldn't let our national boundaries 555 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: sort of preclude us from recognizing that these are folks 556 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 1: that are in our proximity and need care. 557 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 2: Why I so appreciate the book. 558 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if maybe you have one more story that 559 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 1: you could share with us, Just give us maybe one 560 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 1: of your favorites, a story that really illustrates, I think 561 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 1: the impact of your ministry. 562 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, talk about this one young lady in El Salvador, 563 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 3: and she we met her in the detention center, and 564 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 3: quite frankly, I don't even know what she was there for. 565 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 3: I don't know what she was arrested. I do know 566 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 3: that she was involved in crime, obviously because of a 567 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 3: home environ that was broken and that wasn't good, And 568 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 3: so she went out onto the streets and seeking belonging 569 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 3: and got in trouble and got incarcerated. 570 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 4: And at first she wasn't. 571 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,319 Speaker 3: Inclined to participate in the academy, but our teachers kept 572 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 3: providing devotionals, kept building that relationship, kept talking to her, 573 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 3: and then kept inviting her into the academy, and she attended. 574 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 3: She joined, and she began to open up and receive 575 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 3: their love. And then when it came time for her 576 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 3: to go out. 577 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:36,880 Speaker 4: She didn't know where she was going to go to. 578 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 3: So we helped establish a small I've been to her 579 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 3: place with her team. It's a small place, a small place, 580 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 3: and get her set up there, bought her a sewing machine. 581 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:55,399 Speaker 3: She started making t shirts and clothes and selling them 582 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,800 Speaker 3: and earning a little money. And we saw her grit 583 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 3: and her determination, and so we provided her a scholarship 584 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 3: because she wanted to be a lawyer, and so she 585 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 3: started attending night school. And then we also had the 586 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 3: opportunity to talk to some judges and told her about 587 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 3: her attending law school, and they invited her in for 588 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 3: an interview and she got hired. So now she is 589 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 3: working a day job working for one of the top 590 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:31,759 Speaker 3: courts in El Salvador. She is attending night school, a 591 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:36,840 Speaker 3: law school. She on the weekends. Her small sewing business 592 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:41,840 Speaker 3: has grown into a storefront operation that her brother manages, 593 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 3: so she continues to make clothes on the weekends. We 594 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 3: visited her church and she is an organist at her church. 595 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 3: And so to see this girl come in who was 596 00:35:54,680 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 3: so broken and now is just flourishing because of the opportunity, 597 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 3: tunity and the love that was given to her. 598 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: It's pretty amazing to think about how many people are 599 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 1: willing to help when they are presented with just a 600 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: specific opportunity. I just think, I guess my question is 601 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,280 Speaker 1: when you know when you're working, when the success coaches 602 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,760 Speaker 1: are working, the experience you had that you just narrated 603 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 1: with the judges. I'm sure the judges are aware this 604 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,839 Speaker 1: is a widespread problem, right, and it's not like they're 605 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 1: unaware that this stuff is going on. But to give 606 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:33,399 Speaker 1: them a specific opportunity and say this girl is now 607 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 1: doing this, and for them to offer that aid to 608 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,319 Speaker 1: that specific person, it just speaks to the necessity of 609 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 1: being of giving people the opportunity to help particular individuals. 610 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 1: I think that's that's something I'm taking away from that story. 611 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 1: You know, sort of amazing that they hired her and 612 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 1: brought her in for an interview and you know, all 613 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 1: that kind of good stuff. 614 00:36:58,360 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 4: Right. 615 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:00,880 Speaker 3: So that goes back to we were talking about at 616 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 3: the very beginning. It's about peeling back those labels and 617 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 3: those preconceptions of who you think this young lady, this 618 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 3: young man are and looking at them for their human dignity. 619 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,080 Speaker 3: And that's the same way we in the last year, 620 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 3: we've started a mentoring project in El Salvador, and for 621 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 3: years we've wanted to really get volunteer mentors to participate 622 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,440 Speaker 3: because we only have so many coaches and their caseloads 623 00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 3: are high, and so we need more of that one 624 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 3: on one mentorship. And so we brought on board a 625 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 3: guy who really had But the point is that what 626 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 3: we had heard the resistance is my family's business has 627 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 3: been extorted, my family member has been a victim of crime. 628 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,919 Speaker 3: We don't want anything to do with that. We don't 629 00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 3: want any association. But but we brought on this guy 630 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 3: who had a network of churches and he was a 631 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,800 Speaker 3: very relational guy, and he was able to convince fifty 632 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:14,839 Speaker 3: churches representatives to come in for informational session and over 633 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,879 Speaker 3: the course of last year, out of that came more 634 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 3: than twenty individual mentors. So we have now today twenty 635 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:30,400 Speaker 3: plus Christian mentors matched up with twenty released youth. To 636 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 3: add on to that level of accountability, of mentorship, of 637 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:41,400 Speaker 3: growth and discipleship, of course, so that these people have 638 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:49,040 Speaker 3: learned to see the kids as human beings, as children 639 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,480 Speaker 3: of God and people who are worth investing in. 640 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 1: So just to clarify the extortion piece. What I understood 641 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:02,240 Speaker 1: you to say was whenever people have gotten involved previously 642 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,239 Speaker 1: with some of the people who are out of the 643 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 1: juvenile detention centers, that has turned out poorly for them 644 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,719 Speaker 1: because the people from the juvenile detention centers have been 645 00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,560 Speaker 1: trying to extort them. Would that I misunderstand that? 646 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, so clarify that. 647 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:26,359 Speaker 3: You know, people have many small Latinda's stores or taxicab companies, 648 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 3: but there's a gang tax in many of the neighborhoods 649 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,360 Speaker 3: that you know. It's like the mafia, right you you 650 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,239 Speaker 3: need to pay me in order for you to operate 651 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 3: in this area. So their businesses are being extorted by 652 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 3: the gangs. So they project that onto the youth. Why 653 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 3: would I want to mentor this type of person because 654 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 3: of what I have experienced. 655 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,719 Speaker 2: That that clarifies it. Yeah, thank you for clarifying that. 656 00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:58,800 Speaker 2: That's helpful. Well, Greg. 657 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,640 Speaker 1: I enjoyed reading the book. I thought it was fantastic. 658 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:03,440 Speaker 1: I think you did a fantastic job on it. I'd 659 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:06,440 Speaker 1: encourage people to go get it again. The title of 660 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:10,360 Speaker 1: the book is Counteract, Walking Alongside incursrated youth in Central 661 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,520 Speaker 1: America from prison to purpose and I just thought one 662 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:14,960 Speaker 1: of the things I'll just say, I thought you did 663 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,719 Speaker 1: a great job of interweaving your mission throughout and really 664 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 1: making it clear why you're there, why it's important to 665 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 1: be there, and then how other people could be there. 666 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,680 Speaker 1: And so in that spirit, why don't you tell people 667 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:29,920 Speaker 1: how they could get involved with Counteract, how they could 668 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,400 Speaker 1: support what you're doing, and where they can find you. 669 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,919 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I appreciate you're reading the book, but yeah, 670 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 3: those are the points to try to make that no 671 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:46,239 Speaker 3: youth is beyond God's grace and redimnition, that personal connection 672 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:51,920 Speaker 3: and mentorship and discipleship is key key, and that there 673 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 3: are opportunities for people to get involved to for churches, 674 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:04,479 Speaker 3: for social civic organizations, for individuals, for donors to play 675 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:08,839 Speaker 3: a part in the work and see the transformations that 676 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:14,520 Speaker 3: God creates through their generosity. So we are at Counteract 677 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:20,640 Speaker 3: dot org and our social media is Counteract org on 678 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:25,839 Speaker 3: the social media networks, and so that's where you can 679 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,600 Speaker 3: find us. And yeah, thanks for asking about the book. 680 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:34,720 Speaker 3: It is available on all major online retailers Amazon, Walmart, Arnes, 681 00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:35,440 Speaker 3: and Noble. 682 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:40,000 Speaker 4: Well established by Westboat Press. It's on their site as well. 683 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,040 Speaker 1: Okay, we'll have links to all of that in the 684 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,799 Speaker 1: show description, and I would just encourage you to check 685 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,000 Speaker 1: out Counteracts website. I got on there and kind of 686 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,920 Speaker 1: looked around. They do have other opportunities for people to 687 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:55,440 Speaker 1: plug in. There's always ways to help, and so get 688 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,840 Speaker 1: the book, read through it. If you're compelled by the 689 00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:59,920 Speaker 1: mission of Counteract, I just encourage you to get that 690 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,759 Speaker 1: and help them do what they're already doing better add 691 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:06,920 Speaker 1: to their capacity, because I really do think that what 692 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,680 Speaker 1: they're doing is compelling. And so Greg, thanks for being here. 693 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,480 Speaker 1: Thanks for the work you do and really appreciate it 694 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:14,400 Speaker 1: be on the show today. 695 00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:15,840 Speaker 4: Thanks for the opportunity. 696 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,680 Speaker 1: James, all right, everyone will catch you on the next 697 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:21,080 Speaker 1: episode of Thinking Christian. 698 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:21,640 Speaker 2: Take Care. 699 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:23,800 Speaker 1: I just want to take a second to thank the 700 00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,319 Speaker 1: team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on 701 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,719 Speaker 1: the Thinking Christian podcast. If you go to lifeaudio dot com, 702 00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:32,920 Speaker 1: you'll find dozens of other faith centered podcasts in their network. 703 00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,480 Speaker 1: They've got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more.