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Speaker 1: Coming up, I'll explore why the officials investigating the mass

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Speaker 1: shooting at Brown seem quite literally clueless. I'll resolve the

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Speaker 1: conundrum of why Trump officials would give extensive interviews to

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Speaker 1: an obviously hostile source like Vanity Fair. And I've got

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Speaker 1: a professor on who's going to talk about the perils

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Speaker 1: of feminist scholarship. Let's just say that's a little bit

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Speaker 1: of an oxymoroni. If you're watching on YouTube x so Rumble,

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Speaker 1: listening on Apple or Spotify, please subscribe to my channel.

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Speaker 1: This is the podcast.

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Speaker 2: America needs this voice. The times are crazy and a

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Speaker 2: time of confusion, division and lies. We need a brave

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Speaker 2: voice of reason, understanding and truth. This is the Suza Podcast.

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Speaker 1: What on earth is going on at Brown University? Or

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Speaker 1: what's going on in Providence, Rhode Island, which is the

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Speaker 1: place where Brown is located. There was a mass shooting there,

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Speaker 1: several kids killed, some injured. Just a horrible incident and

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Speaker 1: as of now, we don't have someone who has been

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Speaker 1: arrested yet. Now I just saw not really very long

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Speaker 1: ago that the police are saying now that they have

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Speaker 1: a suspect. Yesterday it was a person of interest. Now

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Speaker 1: they have a suspect. They have been releasing, admittedly some

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Speaker 1: rather indistinct and fuzzy videos. I'm not even sure of

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Speaker 1: the videos that have come out sequentially. Are all of

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Speaker 1: the same person that he's like, These guys don't even

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Speaker 1: look alike. Are these different people? Are they the same people?

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Speaker 1: And the whole thing has had an element of mystery,

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Speaker 1: if not an odor of incompetence. The press conference that

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Speaker 1: they had with the mayor and then the police chief

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Speaker 1: was an exercise of in surrealism. First of all, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to dwell on this was I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you watched that press conference, the actions of the

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Speaker 1: person doing the sign language, but it was so over

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Speaker 1: the top that for a moment I thought, this is

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Speaker 1: this is a comedy routine. This is not real. Either

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Speaker 1: that or they're playing some kind of a joke on

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Speaker 1: the public, which would be in very bad taste, given

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Speaker 1: though this is a very serious situation, not exactly the

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Speaker 1: time for Saturday Night Live. And yet the sign language

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Speaker 1: person was operating kind of in a Saturday Night Live

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Speaker 1: type of mode with over the hop reactions that boarded

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Speaker 1: on the old cartoons, where if somebody is looking to

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Speaker 1: the left, you know, they would spin their head around

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Speaker 1: and around and then look to the left, almost like

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Speaker 1: in Bugs Bunny or one of those those cartoons. Now,

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Speaker 1: if a shooter goes into a classroom and guns down victims,

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Speaker 1: why is it the case that we don't know as

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Speaker 1: of this moment whether the shooter shouted a lahu akbar

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Speaker 1: or not. There were some reports from day one that's

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Speaker 1: what the shooter said, and the public officials are like,

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Speaker 1: we're not going to say. We're not going to confirm,

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Speaker 1: We're not going to deny. Now, maybe they know, but

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Speaker 1: they're not saying and that would be in itself very

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Speaker 1: telling that they what they are they trying to prevent Islamophobia?

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Speaker 1: Are they trying to prevent public conjecture or speculation? And

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Speaker 1: second of all, you have a college, one of the

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Speaker 1: most prestigious universities with what endowment of eight or nine

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Speaker 1: billion dollars? Why aren't their cameras everywhere? Why is it

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Speaker 1: the case? How can someone come on a venue into

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Speaker 1: a classroom, shoot people and leave and all you have

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Speaker 1: is this kind of pathetic, grainy video where you can

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Speaker 1: barely make out someone's features. What is the explanation for that? Now,

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Speaker 1: there were some reports, and I was skeptical of them

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Speaker 1: from the start that I'm skeptical of them. Now they

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Speaker 1: claim that video cameras were turned off. I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to believe that until there's some genuine corroborations. This is

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Speaker 1: not like the Candice Owen's podcast. Here, we're going with

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Speaker 1: things that we know and we're admitting things that we

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Speaker 1: don't know. But I do think that this whole thing

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Speaker 1: seems to be odd from the beginning. Now there's been

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Speaker 1: some speculation that is this Do they know who did it?

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Speaker 1: And is it someone like that? The university has been

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Speaker 1: trumpet as, oh, this is like an exhibit for how

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Speaker 1: wonderful we are and how diverse we are. Could it

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Speaker 1: be that the university is in an awkward situation and

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Speaker 1: for this reason they've been so reticent. You're reluctant to

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Speaker 1: believe that the university would not be moving full speed

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Speaker 1: ahead to resolve this kind of issue, particular when its

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Speaker 1: own students have been harmed and killed in this merciless way. Now,

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Speaker 1: one of the students was the vice president of College Republicans,

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Speaker 1: and there has been some fitting tributes to her on

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Speaker 1: social media. How brave this kid was and how she

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Speaker 1: in a very hostile environment, was nevertheless kind of upholding

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Speaker 1: the conservative mantle and the Maga position, and that led

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Speaker 1: some people to go, well, obviously this is someone who

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Speaker 1: was who was targeted. That to me seems implausible, unlikely,

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Speaker 1: particularly because it's not this was not a case where

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Speaker 1: someone went to this young woman's apartment, someone goes into

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Speaker 1: a classroom and just blows people away. It seemed kind

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Speaker 1: of indiscriminate. And so until we know more, I think

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Speaker 1: it's hard to say that this person was an individual

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Speaker 1: target Was this ideologically motivated? Who knows? Is there a

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Speaker 1: kind of Islamic element to this? I would certainly be

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Speaker 1: suggested if someone shouts a lahu akbar. And then there's

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Speaker 1: a new question which has just come up, which is

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Speaker 1: whether or not there is a connection between the Brown

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Speaker 1: University shooting and the professor at MIT who was killed

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Speaker 1: right in about the same time period. So on the

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Speaker 1: way to the podcast, I told W I said, let's

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Speaker 1: look up and see was that professor or Jewish would

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Speaker 1: just be interesting the coincidence of the Allahu akbar report.

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Speaker 1: But it turns out this guy is South America or

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Speaker 1: Latin American. He has a Portuguese name. According to Grock,

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Speaker 1: there's no evidence that he's Jewish. So at this point

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Speaker 1: all you have is two incidents in kind of gruesome proximity.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Mit is right in the Boston area or

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Speaker 1: near the Boston area, not right in Boston, and Brown

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Speaker 1: is in Providence, Rhode Island, but within a close vicinity.

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Speaker 1: So there's a possibility that there would be some connection,

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Speaker 1: particularly if one could find some ideological connection or perhaps

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Speaker 1: some shared motive in both incidents. So I hope that

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Speaker 1: this suspect is a firm suspect, because remember that in

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Speaker 1: the Brown case, they grabbed a guy. His name and

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Speaker 1: his images were all over social media. People were like,

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Speaker 1: why would somebody in the armed forces do this? And

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Speaker 1: it turns out that's the wrong guy, and so they

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Speaker 1: let him go. And I'm not even sure with our

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Speaker 1: decent apology, which certainly would have been due in that case.

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Speaker 1: Let's hope that we're able to figure out the real

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Speaker 1: get information about the Dragon Prophecy Israel Tour. I'd like

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Speaker 1: to comment on the interview or interviews that were done

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Speaker 1: with Susie Wilds, the chief of staff at the White House,

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Speaker 1: and Vanity Fair. This was a kind of big scoop

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Speaker 1: for Manity Fair, which evidently came to the Trump administration

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Speaker 1: and said, we want to we want to describe the

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Speaker 1: consequential presidency that is underway here, and we wonder if

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Speaker 1: you would have open up access to us, including a

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Speaker 1: series of very it seems candid conversations that Susie Wilds

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Speaker 1: had candid to the point where she made some fairly

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Speaker 1: blunt and I would say, even negative remarks about JD. Vance,

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Speaker 1: that he's some kind of a conspiracy theorist and has

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Speaker 1: been for a decade. There were comments about other people

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Speaker 1: as well. There was a comment about Trump that struck

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Speaker 1: a lot of people and seemed very negative. It was

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Speaker 1: the trunk had Trump has the personality of an alcoholic,

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Speaker 1: and by this, Susie Wilds means that Trump is things,

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Speaker 1: He can do anything, and has this kind of invincible

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Speaker 1: confidence that very often alcoholics have and also a sense

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Speaker 1: of anything can be accomplished. And very interestingly, when Trump

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Speaker 1: was asked about it, he in effect said, well, I

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Speaker 1: do I have that personality? Now he goes kind of,

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Speaker 1: that's why I'm not an alcoholic, because I'm disposed that way.

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Speaker 1: So Trump neatly flipped this seeming negative characterization and almost

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Speaker 1: embraced the definition, or embraced the analogy, and said, so

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Speaker 1: what now, This in itself is really interesting because I

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Speaker 1: remember a whole generation ago when a leading figure in

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Speaker 1: the Reagan administration, this was David Stockman, the head of

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Speaker 1: the Office of Management and Budget, gave under very similar

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Speaker 1: circumstances a series of in depth interviews do not Vanity

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Speaker 1: fair but the Atlantic Monthly and The Atlantic published this

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Speaker 1: long article called the Education of David Stockman, and David

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Speaker 1: Stockman said, I have my doubts about Reaganomics. I'm not

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Speaker 1: really sure it's going to work. So think about this

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Speaker 1: was a guy who was sort of the top man

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Speaker 1: in charge of implementing the Reagan agenda, and here he's

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Speaker 1: saying he doesn't think it's going to work. So it

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Speaker 1: was very embarrassing, and sure enough Stockman resigned and Reagan's policies,

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Speaker 1: as it turns out, went out, went on to work

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Speaker 1: very well. Reagan was resoundingly re elected. Stockman kind of

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Speaker 1: receded into the background and.

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Speaker 3: That was that.

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Speaker 1: And I think there were people who when they saw

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Speaker 1: the Susie wils comments, thought sort of the same thing.

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Speaker 1: In other words, they applied the Reagan template and they said,

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Speaker 1: all right, well, this shows you that number one, Susie

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Speaker 1: Wilds was about to leave the government. She's either going

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Speaker 1: to be fired by Trump or she wants to leave anyway,

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Speaker 1: and she maybe doesn't think things are going this well.

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Speaker 1: And so she thought, all right, well, I'm just going

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Speaker 1: to say my piece so I can distance myself from

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Speaker 1: some of the things that are going on. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to be held responsible, and I am essentially packing

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Speaker 1: my bags. Well, as it turns out, this whole mode

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Speaker 1: of understanding what's happening is wrong, and Susie Wilds isn't

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Speaker 1: going anywhere. Trump isn't firing her. And this all raises

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Speaker 1: the interesting question, well, why did the Trump administration agree

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Speaker 1: to these interviews. Is it the case that they didn't

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Speaker 1: know that Dandy Fair is trash bandy Fair? Is this

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Speaker 1: left wing rag vanity Fair is not going to portray

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Speaker 1: you favorably? Sure enough, Vanny Fair. They have this picture

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Speaker 1: of the Caroline leave It the press secretary. They try

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Speaker 1: to make her look as scary and nurse ratchetsh as

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Speaker 1: much as they can, and they have. The whole article

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Speaker 1: is unfavorable. And Susie Wilds actually put out a tweet

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Speaker 1: where she said, in effact, hey, they've distorted what I said.

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Speaker 1: They have given it to the wrong context, they have

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Speaker 1: spun it the wrong way. She didn't say that the

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Speaker 1: statements she made aren't true, because evidently they're on tape.

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Speaker 1: So Vanney Fair can just play the tape and you'll

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Speaker 1: see the these statements are accurate. It's not that she

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Speaker 1: was saying the statements aren't accurate. What she was saying

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Speaker 1: is that the context was unfavorable and unfair. Well, WHOOPTI do?

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Speaker 1: By WHOOPI do here, I mean, what do you expect.

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Speaker 1: You're dealing with the opposition, You're dealing with people who

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Speaker 1: hate you. You're dealing with people who cannot be counted on.

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Speaker 1: And it's very late in the game to have to

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Speaker 1: say this, to do a fair treatment. So if you

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Speaker 1: cooperate with them, you are actually asking for unfavorable treatment.

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Speaker 1: You are enabling it, you are cooperating with it. You're

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Speaker 1: getting what you paid for, You're getting the result of

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Speaker 1: what you did. And so some conservatives were like, this

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Speaker 1: is a big error of judgment on the part of

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Speaker 1: the Trump administration. But whenever I see these kinds of things,

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Speaker 1: I asked myself, I say, well, surely they already knew that,

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Speaker 1: and yet they went ahead with it. Is it because

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Speaker 1: the media today has a lot less power than they

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Speaker 1: used to. And they were like, all right, let's flay

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Speaker 1: along with Verity Fair. We know it's interesting, it's amusing,

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Speaker 1: it's entertainment. They spell my name right, and frankly, no

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Speaker 1: one really cares. So if you do this negative portrait, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the left will salivate over it, but the right will go,

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Speaker 1: that's vatity Fair. We don't really believe a word they

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Speaker 1: say anyway, And so as a result, it's not the same.

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Speaker 1: When David Stockman did those interviews, there was a kind

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Speaker 1: of chill wind that blew through Washington. Everybody was like virtually,

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Speaker 1: you know, stuttering or speechless, and there was a sense,

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Speaker 1: how can you have this guy in an administration. He's

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Speaker 1: become an albatross, He's a millstone around our neck. This

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Speaker 1: is extremely ill advised, and so this guy just has

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Speaker 1: to go. He has to be let go. And sure enough,

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Speaker 1: Stockman by the way, who was a congressman before that,

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Speaker 1: very knowledgeable about the but has gone on to become

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Speaker 1: a leading economist and strategist and forecaster. Very smart guy.

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Speaker 1: But in a way, he signed his own political death

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Speaker 1: warrant by giving those interviews, and that was the end

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Speaker 1: of him. It's a very different landscape now, and so

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Speaker 1: in my view, again, I'm still not sure what the

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Speaker 1: purpose of doing this was, because you cannot be surprised

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Speaker 1: that you're being trashed in Vanity Fair, because that is

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Speaker 2: Is the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians the Bible

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Speaker 2: of an ancient conflict recorded in the Bible.

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Speaker 4: The nation of Israel is a resurrective nation. What if

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Speaker 4: there was going to be a resurrection of another people,

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Speaker 4: an enemy people of Israel?

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Speaker 2: The Dragon's prophecy. Watch it now or by the DVD

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Speaker 1: Guys, I'd like to welcome to the podcast a new guest.

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Speaker 1: It's Mark Defant. He is professor of geology and geochemistry

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Speaker 1: at the University of South Florida. He specializes in the

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Speaker 1: physical sciences, also in evolutionary psychology. He's been doing a

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Speaker 1: lot of work on the issue while the issues around feminism,

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Speaker 1: the patriarchy, so called social constructionism, whether there's a pay

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Speaker 1: gap between men and women, and basically the ideological underpinning

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Speaker 1: feminist scholarship. By the way, you can follow Mark. He's

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Speaker 1: got a website is Mark m R. C. Defont is

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Speaker 1: the E F A N T SO Markdefont dot com. Mark, welcome,

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Speaker 1: Thank you for joining me. It's a real pleasure. My

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Speaker 1: wife mentioned to me that you you told her that

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Speaker 1: many many moons ago you attended one of my debates

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Speaker 1: with the illustrious literary critic Stanley Fish.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for having me, by the way, and yeah,

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Speaker 3: it was quite an ordeal. I had just finished reading

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Speaker 3: your book, which I think was out about that time,

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Speaker 3: on political correctness illiberal education, as I remember, and it

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Speaker 3: was such a good book that when I saw that

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Speaker 3: you were booked to come on campus. I made my

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Speaker 3: way down there and got to see you debating Stanley Fish,

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Speaker 3: which one might not call much of a debate, but

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Speaker 3: I think you look great.

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Speaker 1: Well he was the irony about Fish, thinking back to

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Speaker 1: those days. And by the way, there's a kind of

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Speaker 1: weird little update, which is, after being out of touch

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Speaker 1: with Stanley Fish for many, many years, I heard from

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Speaker 1: him about two months ago and he's now teaching apparently

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Speaker 1: in Sarasota at a university. Yeah, and he's like, he's like, today,

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Speaker 1: you need to come down here and we need to

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Speaker 1: have a public conversation on stage. And so we're actually

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Speaker 1: working that out. But these debates that you're referring to

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Speaker 1: were in the mid nineteen nineties. Ye, right, Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: it's a long time ago. And so anyway, good to

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Speaker 1: see you again, and let's talk about let's talk about feminism.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is a powerful current of the last

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Speaker 1: fifty years, if not more. But you get the feeling,

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Speaker 1: particularly now among young people, that not only has it

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Speaker 1: somewhat run its course, but there's a pretty ferocious counter

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Speaker 1: feminism that's developed. And by counterfeminism, Mark, I don't mean

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Speaker 1: in the past we've seen some counterfeminism where you've had

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Speaker 1: like women's rights and then a bunch of guys come

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Speaker 1: out and go, well, we are for men's rights. And

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Speaker 1: to me, that's not counterfeminism. That's actually buying into feminism

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Speaker 1: and playing within the feminist playground, so to speak. Do

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Speaker 1: you agree with that and do you also sense that

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Speaker 1: we're seeing a real shift in the attitude of young

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Speaker 1: people towards feminism.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure. I mean, I see right now so

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Speaker 3: much happening on the university campuses that would seem to

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Speaker 3: argue against that. I mean, more faculty now are women

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Speaker 3: more of course, more women are in college than men,

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Speaker 3: more people graduating from law school or women, more people

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Speaker 3: getting their PhDs or women. So we've had a lot

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Speaker 3: of recent papers coming out saying that the university has

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Speaker 3: been feminized. So I'm not sure I'm seeing this in

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Speaker 3: the university. I'm seeing a lot of a lot of

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Speaker 3: things to the contrary, and that's what kind of pushed

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Speaker 3: me to write this paper.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I think actually the things we're talking about

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Speaker 1: are quite consistent, because I think what you're reflecting is

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Speaker 1: the fact that this feminist revolution has now become fully institutionalized. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and so the young people who are rebelling against it,

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Speaker 1: what you're describing is what they're rebelling against, because this

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Speaker 1: is the stuff that they have been bombarded with, probably

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Speaker 1: since infancy. Particularly if you are young and white and mail,

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Speaker 1: you have been the object of a battering ram that begins,

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Speaker 1: you know, basically from the time you come out of

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Speaker 1: the womb and really never stops. Now that's right now.

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Speaker 1: Your tool of looking at this is you sort of

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Speaker 1: use the techniques of science and maybe social science to

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Speaker 1: examine feminist scholarship. If you had to give a kind

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Speaker 1: of overview of your latest paper, can you tell us

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Speaker 1: what it's about?

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Speaker 3: Yes, I have I'm a fuckinologist geochemist, as you mentioned,

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Speaker 3: but I for years have been extremely interested in evolutionary

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Speaker 3: psychology and I taught it in my Honors Court science course.

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Speaker 3: For years, I've read everything I can get my hands

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Speaker 3: on on it, and I feel pretty grounded in the area.

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Speaker 3: And I was seeing the discrepancies between what evolutionary psychology

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Speaker 3: was saying and what feminism is saying. In fact, I've

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Speaker 3: seen feminism completely deny evolutionary psychology, and there seems to

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Speaker 3: be as you mentioned, this idea of social construction where

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Speaker 3: we're all culturally formed and biology doesn't have anything to

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Speaker 3: do it. In fact, we're all born as blank slates

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Speaker 3: and culture makes us the way we are. So for

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Speaker 3: masculine culture did it, If we're feminine, culture diditive, we're

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Speaker 3: trans culture did it. And you can see this, I

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Speaker 3: think in the fact that feminists aren't standing up against

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Speaker 3: trans at least not any feminists that I know, or

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Speaker 3: standing up against women participating males participating in women's sports.

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Speaker 3: So I think it goes back to this concept of

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Speaker 3: you know, you are what you declare you are, and

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Speaker 3: it's only culture that makes you the way you are.

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Speaker 3: And of course I'm seeing just the opposite with evolutionary psychology.

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Speaker 3: Evolutionary psychology first posits that there's a difference in hunter

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Speaker 3: Gathered society between men and women, and we see that

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Speaker 3: in that men can have children without much support or input,

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Speaker 3: and women who have babies in hunter gathered society not

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Speaker 3: as much. Today, we're in a kind of a crucial situation.

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Speaker 3: If you had a baby without male support, this could

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Speaker 3: be a serious problem. And so women have become very

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Speaker 3: reluctant to have indiscriminate sex. If you put it that way,

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Speaker 3: and I think any man that's ever been in the

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Speaker 3: dating scene knows this. And we see this kind of

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Speaker 3: coming out in the way men behave. Men want to

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Speaker 3: impress women, and they compete against each other to win

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Speaker 3: women over. Now they men select women too, but on

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Speaker 3: totally different basis. And so anything that happens in our

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Speaker 3: societ that's kind of labeled patriarchy is not what we're

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Speaker 3: led to believe by feminists that men are all hanging

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Speaker 3: around trying to subjugate women. We're not trying to do that.

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Speaker 3: I think we developed a patriarchy, what I call an

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Speaker 3: evolutionary patriarchy, from this process of women selecting men. What

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Speaker 3: did women select? They selected men that are masculine. They

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Speaker 3: go out, they earn the bacon, they are great hunters,

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Speaker 3: they're great defenders of the family, and they protect So

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Speaker 3: all this toxic masculinity nonsense. I mean, yes, men can

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Speaker 3: be more violent or are more violent on average than women,

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Speaker 3: but this is not also something that we should be

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Speaker 3: calling toxic. Masculinity has a lot of good points too,

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Speaker 3: and I hate to see I hate to see that

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Speaker 3: happening in our universities, but it just seems like it's

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Speaker 3: become universal that you know, men in masculinity are toxic,

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Speaker 3: and we see then this drift away from this in

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Speaker 3: the university system. Am I talking too long here? Because

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Speaker 3: it's kind of.

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Speaker 1: Well, no, you're doing You're doing just fine. Let me

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Speaker 1: let me frame a question this way, because whenever I

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Speaker 1: see these kind of you know, somewhat perverse social movements,

428
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: I asked myself, what was what were the conditions in

429
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 1: society that facilitated the rise of this. In other words,

430
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 1: we can obviously point to you know, Benny fer Dan

431
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: and Gloria Steinem and a kind of ensemble of feminist

432
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 1: pied pipers who are preaching this message in the sixties

433
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: and seventies, but there was obviously some receptivity to it

434
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: on the part of young women who must have heard like,

435
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: oh wow, what they're saying is making a lot of sense.

436
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: Do you think that, just to offer a theory, do

437
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: you think it's possible that because of the enormous proliferation

438
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: of technology in the middle of the twentieth century, I'm

439
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: basically thinking about, you know, the vacuum cleaner and the

440
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: later the microwave oven and so on, where the kind

441
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: of project of managing the home goes from being a

442
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: full time occupation to being a kind of part time occupation.

443
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: And I say this because the big theme, of course

444
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: of Betty Fernand's feminine mystique was I'm I'm bored. I'm

445
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: a woman, and I have nothing to do. My mind

446
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: is wasting away, and so I have to jump into

447
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: the workforce and be like a man, because that's where

448
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: all the action is. And when you look at the

449
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: whole feminist project, it was essentially to enter the man's

450
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: world and compete with men on your own terms. But

451
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get to what was the soil out

452
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: of which this grew initially? What was its appeal?

453
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 3: Well, I think you're onto something. I can only give

454
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 3: you my opinion on it, but it seems like we

455
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 3: kind of reached the peak in the sixties where we

456
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 3: had the development of the pill in the fifties, and

457
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 3: then with that it gave women a lot of freedom.

458
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 3: They didn't have to be so careful about who they

459
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 3: had sex with. And as a result of that, we

460
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 3: see women sort of getting rid of those old cultural

461
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 3: kinds of things where I think women were not treated equally,

462
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 3: and I think it this movement has helped women in

463
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 3: some respects why they're getting equality. They're getting equity, but

464
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 3: or equality. And then also during that time you mentioned it,

465
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 3: you had all this technology coming to the home where

466
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 3: you know, we had washers and dryers and garbage disposals

467
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 3: and refrigerators, and this really freed up the woman for

468
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 3: a lot of activities that were formally taking you know,

469
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 3: take hours to complete during the day. So yeah, I

470
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 3: think the combination of those things gave women a lot

471
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 3: of time, and a lot of women took advantage of

472
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 3: and they went to school, to college and all those things.

473
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 3: So yes, I would agree.

474
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 1: With you Mark in You're a review of feminist scholarship,

475
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: what is the sort of tool that the feminists use

476
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: to distort the result? In other words, I read recently

477
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: that you know, when they do these measurements about whether

478
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: or not men or women are overrepresented or underrepresented, they

479
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: use a bogus metric. By and large, in fields where

480
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: the women are fewer, they go, well, we're underrepresented. But

481
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: in the fields where women are sixty percent or seventy percent,

482
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: they don't say, oh, women are overrepresented, we now need

483
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: to reduce their numbers. They say, we've achieved parody, So

484
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: they basically act like overrepresentation on their side is actually

485
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: a good thing and should not be counted as such.

486
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: But in any field where they are they fall under

487
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: fifty major work needs to be done or to you know,

488
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: bring them up or bring them to parody. Now, this

489
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: is obviously a rhetorical slide of hand. Have you found

490
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: that feminist scholarship is constantly sort of mucking about with

491
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: the rules and not applying fair standards and even distortions

492
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: of data. What is your what is your assessment of

493
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: this body of work academically?

494
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 3: Oh, my gosh, don't get me started. My background in

495
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 3: geochemistry gives me, I think, an irrational approach and a

496
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 3: scientific approach to what's going on. And I see, and

497
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 3: that's the point of my paper. I see the lack

498
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 3: of rigor in feminist studies. But I have a perfect

499
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 3: example of what you've been talking about, and that is

500
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 3: the gender pay gap. You know, feminists they get out

501
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 3: the graph that shows that men make this amount of

502
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 3: money and women make this amount of money, and they

503
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 3: say there's a gap. Well, there's a gap, but there's

504
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 3: a definite reason for that gap. And if you look

505
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 3: at economics and the studies by feminists, well I wouldn't

506
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 3: call them feminists, but they're female economists. The research they're

507
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 3: doing shows that the gender pay gap is due to

508
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 3: differences in behavior between men and women. Men tend to

509
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 3: be risk adverse, they tend to be aggressive, and women

510
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 3: tend to be more interested in social issues and they resist,

511
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 3: you know, the risk that one takes in job opportunities.

512
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 3: So time and time again we see that not only

513
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 3: do women avoid high risk jobs where there's a lot

514
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 3: of competition and you know, sixty seventy hour work weeks,

515
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 3: they tend to go towards things that give them a

516
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 3: lot of ability and freedom to have children for example.

517
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 3: So women and to leave the workforce during this, and

518
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 3: they tend then to get lower pay because of that.

519
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 3: When they come back into the workforce, they've lost a

520
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 3: lot of years after raising children. And I don't want

521
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 3: to hold that against them, but I think that you

522
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 3: can explain the pay gap by a lot of at

523
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 3: least not me, but a lot of commonists are explaining

524
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 3: it that way. And well, I just feel like it's

525
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 3: unfair to say that the gender pay gap is due

526
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 3: to discrimination. I think sure there's some discrimination going on there.

527
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 3: But I think that this is a choice that women

528
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 3: are making constantly, and we see this. We see this

529
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 3: so much in the jobs like take, for example, teachers.

530
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 3: Women tend to focus on jobs that are socially or

531
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 3: in social workers, nurses, teachers, and these are jobs that

532
00:34:55,800 --> 00:35:02,280
Speaker 3: of course have the mother ins stinct involved. There things

533
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 3: with women have high hormones oxytocin and estrogen, which really

534
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 3: can be associated with those kind of mothering instincts. And

535
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 3: they get into fields like education, which are just overwhelmed

536
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 3: by women. So when you get into a field that's

537
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,240
Speaker 3: overwhelmed by people wanting to work in that field, people

538
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,399
Speaker 3: can pay less. And that's what we see happening too

539
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 3: with the with the with the pay gap. Women are

540
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 3: being paid less because there's so many women in fields

541
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,879
Speaker 3: like nursing and education. And now they're trying to get

542
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 3: men to go into those fields, but men aren't having

543
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 3: anything to do with it because they don't pay very

544
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 3: much because they're so competitive, and men then tend to,

545
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 3: you know, drift away from that. Yes, some women or

546
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 3: some men become nurses, some men become teachers, but in general,

547
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 3: men tend to move towards more competitive jobs is that being,

548
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 3: you know, a misogynist. I don't think so. I'm just

549
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 3: looking at the data and what it tells me, or

550
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 3: really what feminine economists tell me or women economists. Does

551
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 3: that make any sense?

552
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 1: Absolutely? Now, do you take a pessimistic view of all

553
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 1: this in the sense that you've got this, you know,

554
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: concentration of women in academia, as you say, and they

555
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: are they likely to rehabilitate or reform or improve the

556
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: standards of their scholarship or do you think, hey, these people,

557
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 1: for them it was always a power play. They were

558
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: looking to take over these institutions, kind of the way

559
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 1: you know, the Marxists do, for example. And I don't

560
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: think the typical Marxist worries about whether his scholarship is

561
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: all that secure. His idea is how do we take

562
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 1: over the political science department and hire other people who

563
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 1: think like us? So ultimately, for them it's a calculus

564
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: of power, not necessarily of rationality. Do you think that

565
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: the feminists are in the same racket, so to speak,

566
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 1: or do you think that this kind of critique that

567
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 1: you're making is going to get through to at least

568
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 1: some of them?

569
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 3: Well, so far, I haven't found it getting through to

570
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 3: anyone in the feminist circles. In fact, I'm being criticized

571
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 3: pretty heavily. But I think that what you're saying about

572
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:40,839
Speaker 3: women is very interesting. I think that things like, let's

573
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 3: take social construction for example. Social construction is not supported

574
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 3: as far as I can tell by any research. I mean, yes,

575
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 3: they go out and ask some kids, you know now

576
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 3: and then about you know, why they are this way

577
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 3: or that way, or they see the way they behave,

578
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 3: but all of it can be taken back to fetal development.

579
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,959
Speaker 3: Melissa Hines has done so wonderful research on this where

580
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:10,320
Speaker 3: she finds that children at very young ages, right after

581
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 3: even in the womb, they're coming out and they have

582
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 3: if they're boys, they have masculine characteristics in general, and

583
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 3: if they're girls, they have feminine characteristics. And we can

584
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 3: see this by the fetus is bathed in is bathed

585
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 3: in testosterone about I guess six weeks in, and that

586
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 3: bathing is do if you're a male, but if you're

587
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 3: a female, you're not getting that testosterone. So this impacts

588
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 3: the way babies behave right from the get go, and

589
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 3: then it's just the rest of life. It's you know,

590
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 3: trying to decide how much more you're gonna get until

591
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 3: you reach per puberty, where then you get hit by

592
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 3: more testosterone if you're a male or no testosterone, or

593
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 3: if you're female. You know, testosterone's about ten times higher

594
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 3: in males than females. That's a lot, So no wonder

595
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 3: we behave differently.

596
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think you know, this is not so

597
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 1: much an observation about men and women per se, but

598
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: it is an observation about this idea of the blank

599
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 1: slate of social constructionism, as you put it. I think

600
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: people often make the fallacy of thinking that, hey, look,

601
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:29,280
Speaker 1: the reason that, for example, you know, we sent little

602
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:33,919
Speaker 1: Sarah to learn music is because the reason she became

603
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: a musician is because, you know, we gave our music lessons.

604
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: And the question that is not often asked is well,

605
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: why did you end up giving her music lessons of

606
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: your five kids? Right, And the answer might be that

607
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: from a really young age, this young kid showed a

608
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: lot of interest in music, and that was observed by right,

609
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,399
Speaker 1: No exactly. In other words, what I think what you're

610
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 1: saying here is that that even a lot of things

611
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: that are dubbed culture are themselves cued by nature, and

612
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: so culture becomes a response to nature rather than the

613
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: manu the original manufacturer of the product. Is that a

614
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: good way to put in? Oh?

615
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 3: It is. And there are some people out there scientists

616
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 3: that believe that culture has evolved too, so it becomes

617
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 3: part of nature also the way we behave in culture

618
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:33,240
Speaker 3: or the way culture behaves. So it's kind of interesting. Yeah,

619
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 3: there there is a Marxist element. I mean they love

620
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 3: apparent appear to a love Fuco who is all about power,

621
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 3: all about ideology. And i'd like to see and the

622
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 3: reason I wrote these papers, I'd like to see them

623
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 3: bring in more rigor. If not, let's let's move out

624
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,760
Speaker 3: of the university system, because we're looking for something called truth,

625
00:40:55,880 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 3: not politics, not ideology, and not the pushing of you know,

626
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 3: those ideals that you think here are important.

627
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, I've been been talking to a professor, Mark Defont,

628
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 1: professor of geology and geochemistry. We've been talking about feminism.

629
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 1: And i'll mention again his website where I'm assuming you

630
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: can find some of these papers in scholarship, right, Mark, Yes,

631
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:25,399
Speaker 1: So it's Mark mrc Defont deefa nt dot com. Check

632
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 1: it out, Mark a real pleasure, and thank you for

633
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: joining me, Thank you for having me.

634
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,520
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643
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:02,879
Speaker 4: a month. Can save a baby a month for less

644
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 4: than a dollar a day. And if you provide an

645
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 4: ultrasound machine with your year end gift of fifteen thousand dollars,

646
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 4: even that is doubled. And remember one hundred percent of

647
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 4: what you give goes directly to providing ultrasounds. We separately

648
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 4: fundraise for administrative and overhead. Make this a merry Christmas.

649
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,879
Speaker 4: Call eight three three eight five zero baby that's eight

650
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 4: three three eight five zero two two two nine, or

651
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 4: go to preborn dot com slash Denesh.

652
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 1: I'm in the section of life after death the evidence,

653
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 1: where we are asking whether there are certain aspects of

654
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 1: human nature that are not subject to scientific laws. This

655
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: may seem like a fairly outrageous, quixotic, remarkable investigation, but

656
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,839
Speaker 1: I sugges just died last time that one of those

657
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:05,800
Speaker 1: features is in fact consciousness. And today we're going to

658
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 1: talk about a second feature that I think cannot be

659
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: explained as part of the scientific laws of the world,

660
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 1: and that is the idea of free will. Now, our

661
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 1: free will is very much on a par with our consciousness,

662
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 1: to the degree that we are constantly aware not only

663
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 1: of the world that's consciousness, but we're also aware of

664
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 1: ourselves making decisions. We're making choices. And I'm not just

665
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 1: talking about grand moral choices. I'm not even talking about

666
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: really important career decision Should I go to law school

667
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 1: or become a poet. I'm just talking about everyday decisions.

668
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 1: Should I turn right or left? Do I want vanilla

669
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:04,240
Speaker 1: icecream more chocolate? Should I am I feeling too lazy

670
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: to get up and go work out today. I'm constantly

671
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 1: making decisions, and I have this idea that I am

672
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 1: choosing among options.

673
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 4: Is that.

674
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 1: An illusion is that not real is free will itself

675
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 1: and illusion. Now, the we don't experience free will quite

676
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:33,839
Speaker 1: in the same way as we experience consciousness, because our

677
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 1: consciousness ultimately is something that is basic. Our free will, however,

678
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,879
Speaker 1: is not basic in the sense that we don't have

679
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 1: access to what is going on inside our brain anymore

680
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:52,959
Speaker 1: than we have access, for example, to what is going

681
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 1: on in our digestive or circulatory system. So it is possible,

682
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:01,399
Speaker 1: you have to concede. It's possible that even though we

683
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 1: believe that we are making these free choices, we could

684
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 1: in fact be mistaken. We could be mistaken about free will.

685
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,959
Speaker 1: I don't think you can be mistaken about consciousness. Either

686
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 1: you have consciousness or you don't. And if you think

687
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 1: you have it, well you do have it. You can't

688
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,360
Speaker 1: be wrong about that, just like you can't really be

689
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 1: wrong about being in pain. Right if you are in pain,

690
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 1: If you experience pain, you're in pain. No doctor can

691
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 1: tell you, well, listen, you can't be in pain because

692
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,400
Speaker 1: your neurons aren't properly aligned or your nervous system says

693
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 1: you can't be in pain. Ultimately, being in pain is

694
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 1: a subjective emotion. I called it quality it's a you're

695
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,400
Speaker 1: the only one who really knows whether you are in

696
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: pain and how much. Now, there are a lot of

697
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 1: philosophers and there are some scientists who think that free

698
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:56,360
Speaker 1: will is some kind of an illusion. And the reason

699
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 1: they think it's an illusion is that it is a

700
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 1: violation of the closed system of the world. What's the

701
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: closed system of the world. It's the idea that ultimately

702
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 1: we live in a world where ultimately everything moves according

703
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 1: to physical laws. A couple of centuries ago, the scientist

704
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 1: Pierre Laplace who apparently famously had a conversation with Napoleon

705
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 1: about this point, and Laplace was basically saying that if

706
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 1: we knew the location and momentum of every particle in

707
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 1: the universe, we could in principle, predict all future events.

708
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 1: Why because billiard balls don't move unless they are hit

709
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: by a stick or another billiard ball, and so if

710
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: you know the motion and you know the location of

711
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 1: every particle, well, even though in practice this would be

712
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:55,879
Speaker 1: an impossibly large enterprise, nevertheless, in principle, could you could

713
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 1: be able to tell what was going to happen because

714
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 1: this would affect that would affect something else, and so on.

715
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 1: It's not that you can actually figure it out, but

716
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: the ideas that happens in a determined way. There's no

717
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 1: room in this picture for free will at all. But

718
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 1: now let's step back and think about the implications of

719
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 1: saying that we don't have free will, Because if you

720
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 1: don't have free will, then none of the decisions that

721
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 1: you've made in your life were actually made by you.

722
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 1: They were determined. So think back to your decisions the

723
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,240
Speaker 1: girl you asked to the prom, or how you decided

724
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 1: to go on vacation to Spain, or even if you

725
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,879
Speaker 1: say I love you to my wife, the whole thing,

726
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 1: what are you planning to do in retirement? The ideas

727
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 1: that none of this, none of your choices, past, present,

728
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 1: or future, are in fact free And if this is

729
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 1: the case, the entire literature and history, not just a

730
00:47:55,800 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 1: Western civilization, but all civilization, becomes becomes ultimately incomprehensible. In fact,

731
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: it makes no sense because no one made any decisions.

732
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 1: Hitler didn't decide to invade Poland, the Churchill didn't decide

733
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: to resist him, The Achilles didn't decide to go fight

734
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:21,320
Speaker 1: in the Persian Wars. Every character from Oedipus to Gatsby.

735
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 1: All of them were merely acting according to unconscious and

736
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 1: uncontrolled brain states. Something else was making them do what

737
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: they do. And so, if there is no free will,

738
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:37,280
Speaker 1: the American founders didn't choose to adopt a constitution in Philadelphia,

739
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:41,919
Speaker 1: nor did America elect Obama or Trump as president. Nor

740
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 1: is there anything that we can plan to do or

741
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:48,440
Speaker 1: intend to do to fix social Security or Medicare. If

742
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 1: there's no free will, there are no good deeds and

743
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 1: no bad deeds either, because no one has any choice

744
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 1: in the matter. You can't blame Hitler for killing the Jews.

745
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:02,280
Speaker 1: You can't side with Abraham Lincoln and declaring slavery wrong

746
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 1: because he didn't have the free will to do it,

747
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 1: and you don't either. So in the end, all of

748
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 1: this is an invalidation of what would appear to be

749
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 1: the entire human experience altogether. There's something fundamentally deranged about

750
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 1: claiming that there's no free will. I'll give a small example.

751
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,760
Speaker 1: This is not in the book, but it's something I

752
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:29,800
Speaker 1: came across recently. I see one of the new atheists

753
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 1: not so new anymore, Sam Harris, and he has a

754
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:36,359
Speaker 1: book out about how we have no free will? And

755
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 1: yet what I see is a video by Sam Harris

756
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 1: talking to us about why we should buy his book.

757
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 1: Think about it. If we don't have free will, why

758
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 1: is he trying to quote persuade us. Why is he

759
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 1: trying to tell us it's a really good idea to

760
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 1: buy my book. I want you Denesh to make a

761
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 1: decision to go to Barnes and Noble or go to

762
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 1: Amazon and order my book. Wait, doesn't that presume that

763
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,359
Speaker 1: I have the free will to decide if I want

764
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 1: to buy his book? What is the point of persuasion.

765
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 1: If no one has free will at all, the whole

766
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 1: thing becomes senseless. And at some level, the philosophers and

767
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 1: scientists who pompously decry free will they know that, and

768
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 1: so they try to salvage free will in the way

769
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 1: that I'm about to describe. Now I'll answer them the

770
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:31,320
Speaker 1: next time, but I'm just going to describe this salvaging operation,

771
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 1: which is actually pretty ingenious, but in the end it

772
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 1: doesn't really work. So the people who want a salvage

773
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:43,240
Speaker 1: free will or some element of free will distinguish between

774
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 1: two kinds of a free will. The first kind of

775
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 1: free will is I am free because nothing external to

776
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 1: me is interfering with me. Right. So let's say, for example,

777
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: think a of a car, a remote control car that

778
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 1: is going on a going around a track, or going

779
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,439
Speaker 1: around in my living room. If there are no other

780
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 1: cars that are coming in its way and blocking it,

781
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 1: the car is free. It can actually go wherever it wants.

782
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 1: Nothing is stopping it from the outside, and so that

783
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 1: you can say the car has free action or free

784
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 1: will if you want to call it. That the car

785
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,799
Speaker 1: can go for wherever it wants. So it's free in

786
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,720
Speaker 1: that sense. But of course the car is not free

787
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:29,760
Speaker 1: in the sense that who's manipulating the remote control Well

788
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 1: I am. I'm actually steering the car. I'm directing it

789
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 1: where to go. So according to philosophers, we have free

790
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 1: will in the sense of the car. The car is free,

791
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: and we are free because nothing is stopping us. Let's say,

792
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 1: for example, I decide I would rather go to Washington,

793
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 1: d c. And be part of the Reagan Revolution than

794
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 1: go to business school. This is an actual decision that

795
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:56,239
Speaker 1: I made when I was in my early twenties, and

796
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:58,879
Speaker 1: so the philosopher would say, well, denish you were free

797
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 1: to make that decision because nothing was stopping you from

798
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 1: that course of action. You had a job offer in Washington,

799
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:11,839
Speaker 1: d C. Obviously it was geographically accessible to you. You

800
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 1: were in America, so you were eligible to take that

801
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:17,359
Speaker 1: kind of a job. So since nothing was stopping you,

802
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:20,839
Speaker 1: you were obviously free to make that decision. But if

803
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 1: I were to say, well, yeah, but inside my mind,

804
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,399
Speaker 1: was I free to really make a choice about whether

805
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 1: to do DC or do business school? They would say, no,

806
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:35,840
Speaker 1: you're not free in that sense. Why because your mind

807
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 1: is not uncaused. Certain things are causing you to do

808
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 1: what you do, and you may not be aware of

809
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 1: those things, but that doesn't mean that the cause isn't

810
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 1: there anyway. And they go on to say that if

811
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 1: we don't believe that certain things can cause other people

812
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: to do things, why would businesses buy advertising? Why would

813
00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: we have universities where professors try to teach you the

814
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,879
Speaker 1: basics of physics and chemistry. What are they doing other

815
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:07,799
Speaker 1: than trying to cause your mind to respond in a

816
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:12,279
Speaker 1: certain way. And so the idea here is that we

817
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:17,839
Speaker 1: can choose what we will, but we cannot will what

818
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: we will. In other words, the internal processes of shaping

819
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:25,800
Speaker 1: our will that's not in our control, That is caused,

820
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 1: that is predetermined. So we don't have free will in

821
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,919
Speaker 1: that sense. But what we do have is a more

822
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 1: limited kind of freedom, which is the freedom of the

823
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 1: freedom from external constraint, and free will operates only in

824
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:45,400
Speaker 1: that second and narrower sense.

825
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:49,840
Speaker 2: Subscribe to The Dnees DeSUS a podcast on Apple, Google,

826
00:53:50,000 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 2: and Spotify, or watch on Rumble YouTube and salemnow dot com.