1 00:00:06,750 --> 00:00:11,290 Speaker 1: Welcome to Christian Parent Crazy World, the podcast that tackles 2 00:00:11,350 --> 00:00:14,450 Speaker 1: tough topics to help you be a godly parent in 3 00:00:14,510 --> 00:00:18,390 Speaker 1: an ungodly world. I am your host, Katherine Seegers, and 4 00:00:18,410 --> 00:00:22,050 Speaker 1: in today's episode, we will tackle this really tough question. 5 00:00:22,670 --> 00:00:26,170 Speaker 1: How do you parent a prodigal child? How do you 6 00:00:26,329 --> 00:00:29,750 Speaker 1: maintain a good relationship with a child who is wondering 7 00:00:29,790 --> 00:00:32,980 Speaker 1: how do you stay in a place of influence in 8 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,620 Speaker 1: their life? You know, a lot of parents are walking 9 00:00:35,659 --> 00:00:38,729 Speaker 1: this road right now. So a couple of episodes ago, 10 00:00:38,850 --> 00:00:41,910 Speaker 1: I revealed with permission from my child that one of 11 00:00:41,950 --> 00:00:45,169 Speaker 1: my kids is struggling in their faith. Now, I can 12 00:00:45,229 --> 00:00:47,610 Speaker 1: truly say that my husband and I have a great 13 00:00:47,690 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: relationship with our daughter. She is an incredibly smart kid, 14 00:00:52,220 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: very deep thinker. And I've always taught her to question everything. 15 00:00:55,820 --> 00:00:58,180 Speaker 1: And she has taken that instruction to heart very well. 16 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: But today I want to give you some hard-earned wisdom 17 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: that I have gleaned over the past year of parenting 18 00:01:04,580 --> 00:01:08,310 Speaker 1: a child who is questioning the faith and doesn't know 19 00:01:08,610 --> 00:01:11,450 Speaker 1: what they believe. That's the plan for this episode of 20 00:01:11,490 --> 00:01:23,500 Speaker 1: Christian Parent Crazy World. So let's get started. I am 21 00:01:23,660 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 1: so excited to bring you the conclusion of this two-part 22 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:31,020 Speaker 1: best of series on Gen Z. You know, last week 23 00:01:31,300 --> 00:01:34,620 Speaker 1: I aired an archive episode from a conversation that I 24 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:39,340 Speaker 1: had with Laurie Christine on the Redeeming the Chaos podcast. 25 00:01:39,370 --> 00:01:44,090 Speaker 1: She was actually interviewing me on her podcast and graciously 26 00:01:44,150 --> 00:01:48,350 Speaker 1: allowed me to air that interview over here on CPCW. Now, 27 00:01:48,450 --> 00:01:52,130 Speaker 1: this interview originally aired a couple of years ago on 28 00:01:52,690 --> 00:01:57,220 Speaker 1: But the content is truly evergreen. It is still incredibly 29 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: relevant today. Now, in that conversation, I shared the seven 30 00:02:00,940 --> 00:02:04,700 Speaker 1: biggest reasons why Gen Z is leaving the faith. And 31 00:02:04,740 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: if you missed that, be sure to go back and 32 00:02:06,330 --> 00:02:10,030 Speaker 1: check it out. I do recap those reasons briefly in 33 00:02:10,050 --> 00:02:13,109 Speaker 1: the intro here. But this week, we are picking up 34 00:02:13,330 --> 00:02:17,430 Speaker 1: right where we left off. I'm re-airing the conclusion of 35 00:02:17,470 --> 00:02:21,049 Speaker 1: that conversation with Lori where we talked about how to 36 00:02:21,110 --> 00:02:24,210 Speaker 1: parent a child who is struggling in their faith or 37 00:02:24,270 --> 00:02:28,630 Speaker 1: who may even be on a prodigal path. And I 38 00:02:28,950 --> 00:02:31,810 Speaker 1: have been hosting Christian Parent Crazy World for more than 39 00:02:31,910 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: five years now, which I can hardly believe. But every 40 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,179 Speaker 1: once in a while, I'll go back and I'll listen 41 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: to one of those early episodes. And I'm like, yeah, 42 00:02:41,780 --> 00:02:44,860 Speaker 1: you know, that one might need to stay buried in 43 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: the archives, like deep in the archives, especially some of 44 00:02:48,740 --> 00:02:52,190 Speaker 1: those early episodes and interviews where I was really green. 45 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:56,450 Speaker 1: There is a reason we call these best of episodes, actually. 46 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,910 Speaker 1: But this conversation with Lori, let me just say, wow, 47 00:03:01,770 --> 00:03:05,890 Speaker 1: it honestly, it blessed me all over again. And there's 48 00:03:05,910 --> 00:03:10,190 Speaker 1: a really personal reason for that. When I recorded this interview, 49 00:03:10,210 --> 00:03:13,820 Speaker 1: I was still fairly early in my own journey of 50 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 1: parenting a child who was struggling in the faith. And 51 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,500 Speaker 1: at the time, my oldest daughter was in the middle 52 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: of a very difficult year, and she was identifying as 53 00:03:24,030 --> 00:03:27,150 Speaker 1: agnostic at that point. Now, thankfully, we are in a 54 00:03:27,190 --> 00:03:30,709 Speaker 1: very different place today. She is no longer agnostic. She 55 00:03:30,770 --> 00:03:34,990 Speaker 1: believes in God, and I am so incredibly grateful for that. 56 00:03:35,910 --> 00:03:39,010 Speaker 1: But what struck me as I listened back to this 57 00:03:39,050 --> 00:03:43,290 Speaker 1: conversation is that I still stand by all the advice 58 00:03:43,370 --> 00:03:45,190 Speaker 1: I gave a couple of years ago in that really 59 00:03:45,230 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: hard place as a parent. Not only that, this advice, 60 00:03:49,420 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: these guidelines truly helped me navigate that season with my daughter. 61 00:03:56,260 --> 00:04:00,780 Speaker 1: It helped me build and preserve a strong relationship with 62 00:04:00,820 --> 00:04:05,250 Speaker 1: her while she was struggling. And it also helped me 63 00:04:05,310 --> 00:04:07,809 Speaker 1: to identify some of the things I could do or 64 00:04:08,030 --> 00:04:12,430 Speaker 1: avoid doing as a parent that might have created unnecessary 65 00:04:12,670 --> 00:04:18,250 Speaker 1: obstacles in my relationship with her or in her relationship 66 00:04:18,510 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: with God. Now, I want to be really careful here 67 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: because I don't want to give you the impression that 68 00:04:23,180 --> 00:04:26,659 Speaker 1: if you just follow the right parenting formula, your child 69 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,859 Speaker 1: will automatically come back to the Lord or remain in 70 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: a great and open relationship with you, even if they're wandering. 71 00:04:34,300 --> 00:04:38,750 Speaker 1: It doesn't really work that way. This took a lot 72 00:04:38,790 --> 00:04:42,669 Speaker 1: of work and openness on both sides for both me 73 00:04:42,870 --> 00:04:46,780 Speaker 1: and my husband and my daughter. And, you know, you 74 00:04:46,820 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: might be doing everything you possibly can from your end. 75 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,550 Speaker 1: You might be doing everything right, checking all the boxes, 76 00:04:53,610 --> 00:04:57,169 Speaker 1: while your child just might not be willing to cooperate 77 00:04:57,210 --> 00:04:59,710 Speaker 1: at all. And if that is your situation, I want 78 00:04:59,730 --> 00:05:03,710 Speaker 1: to encourage you, just keep doing what is right. Keep 79 00:05:03,750 --> 00:05:06,270 Speaker 1: following a lot of this advice, these guidelines that I'm 80 00:05:06,290 --> 00:05:11,500 Speaker 1: going to give you today. And most importantly, always, always, always, 81 00:05:11,620 --> 00:05:17,010 Speaker 1: always keep praying. But there are some things that we 82 00:05:17,050 --> 00:05:20,030 Speaker 1: can do as parents that can damage our relationship with 83 00:05:20,089 --> 00:05:24,370 Speaker 1: our children. And sometimes without even realizing it, we can 84 00:05:24,450 --> 00:05:29,050 Speaker 1: create obstacles that make it harder for them to respond 85 00:05:29,510 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: to God. So in this conversation with Lori, I identify 86 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:37,700 Speaker 1: some of those major pitfalls along with some very practical 87 00:05:37,740 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: things that you can do if your child is struggling 88 00:05:41,620 --> 00:05:44,950 Speaker 1: in their faith. And honestly, I wish every child Christian 89 00:05:44,970 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 1: parent could hear this conversation before they ever find themselves 90 00:05:49,250 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 1: on a prodigal parenting journey. And let me also say 91 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,220 Speaker 1: these guidelines will help you even if your kids are 92 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,380 Speaker 1: following the Lord and walking in a right relationship with 93 00:05:59,420 --> 00:06:02,469 Speaker 1: God because we can damage our relationship with our kids 94 00:06:02,510 --> 00:06:05,910 Speaker 1: if we're not parenting out of the right stage of parenting, 95 00:06:06,150 --> 00:06:11,110 Speaker 1: even if they're still believing and pursuing the Lord. So 96 00:06:11,270 --> 00:06:13,470 Speaker 1: whether you have a child who is currently struggling, a 97 00:06:14,050 --> 00:06:17,310 Speaker 1: child who is following the Lord but is approaching adulthood, 98 00:06:17,510 --> 00:06:20,510 Speaker 1: or you simply want to be prepared for whatever seasons 99 00:06:20,570 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: may come, I pray that this conversation gives you wisdom, 100 00:06:24,310 --> 00:06:26,339 Speaker 1: gives you hope, and it gives you a lot of 101 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:31,060 Speaker 1: practical tools for the road ahead. So with all that said, 102 00:06:31,140 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 1: I'm going to air this conversation in full, starting with 103 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: the original intro. In the last episode, I aired the 104 00:06:37,860 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: first half of my interview on Laurie Christine's show, Redeeming 105 00:06:42,190 --> 00:06:44,990 Speaker 1: the Chaos, which is a podcast for moms of boys 106 00:06:45,050 --> 00:06:48,489 Speaker 1: to join in the wild and wonderful adventure of raising 107 00:06:48,570 --> 00:06:53,170 Speaker 1: courageous boys and connecting them with Christ. Laurie has four 108 00:06:53,190 --> 00:06:56,289 Speaker 1: boys herself, so she knows what she is talking about there. 109 00:06:56,850 --> 00:06:59,030 Speaker 1: I went on her show to discuss the topic of 110 00:06:59,190 --> 00:07:03,050 Speaker 1: raising prodigals, and she has commented, kindly allowed me to 111 00:07:03,210 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 1: air this interview on CPCW. Thank you so much, Lori. 112 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: In the last episode, I discussed the seven primary reasons 113 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: that Gen Z is leaving the faith. I want to 114 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: recap those briefly for you as we refer to them 115 00:07:18,180 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: in the remainder of our conversation. Those reasons are, one, 116 00:07:21,940 --> 00:07:24,550 Speaker 1: I have a hard time believing that a good God 117 00:07:24,580 --> 00:07:27,190 Speaker 1: would allow so much evil or suffering in the world. 118 00:07:27,650 --> 00:07:31,810 Speaker 1: Number two, Christians are hypocrites. Number three, I believe science 119 00:07:31,910 --> 00:07:35,310 Speaker 1: refutes too much of the Bible. Number four, I don't 120 00:07:35,390 --> 00:07:39,540 Speaker 1: believe in fairy tales. Number five, there are too many 121 00:07:39,660 --> 00:07:44,140 Speaker 1: injustices in the history of Christianity. Number six, I used 122 00:07:44,180 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: to go to church, but it's just not important to 123 00:07:46,300 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: me anymore. And finally, number seven, I had a bad 124 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,740 Speaker 1: experience in church with a Christian. This is all from 125 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,060 Speaker 1: Barna Research. I will link that in the show notes. 126 00:07:56,450 --> 00:07:58,950 Speaker 1: And I have some upcoming shows that will address some 127 00:07:58,990 --> 00:08:03,210 Speaker 1: of these reasons more specifically. In today's episode, though, I 128 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: offer some critical guidance on how to build a strong 129 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,580 Speaker 1: relationship with a teen or adult child who is struggling 130 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,860 Speaker 1: in the faith or who is on a prodigal path. 131 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: There are many things that we can do to help 132 00:08:16,300 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: draw our child closer to God. And there are things 133 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: that may seem right, but are, in my opinion, counterproductive. 134 00:08:24,930 --> 00:08:28,500 Speaker 1: they may push a child further away from God and 135 00:08:28,580 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: from us. So with that said, let's jump back into 136 00:08:32,100 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: this vitally important conversation. 137 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:40,230 Speaker 2: So let's talk about what we can do if our 138 00:08:40,270 --> 00:08:43,750 Speaker 2: kids just seem to be, you know, we've taught them 139 00:08:43,990 --> 00:08:46,590 Speaker 2: the truth of the Bible. They've been in a church 140 00:08:46,630 --> 00:08:50,250 Speaker 2: that is solid. We're doing all the right things. What 141 00:08:50,270 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 2: can we do if, say, a teenager says, is starting 142 00:08:53,420 --> 00:08:57,179 Speaker 2: to kind of rebel against Christianity, feeling like some of 143 00:08:57,220 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 2: those questions you mentioned, maybe having some of those questions like, oh, well, 144 00:09:00,940 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 2: my science teacher, they are more of an authority than 145 00:09:04,990 --> 00:09:07,170 Speaker 2: the Bible or than my parents or, oh, we've seen 146 00:09:08,250 --> 00:09:10,110 Speaker 2: too much injustice in the church. You know, like as 147 00:09:10,150 --> 00:09:13,069 Speaker 2: they learn more and more from their culture and more 148 00:09:13,110 --> 00:09:15,530 Speaker 2: and more from other influences, they start to have those questions. 149 00:09:15,550 --> 00:09:17,850 Speaker 2: So What can we as parents do to address some 150 00:09:17,870 --> 00:09:21,290 Speaker 2: of those questions and just to help our kids who 151 00:09:21,350 --> 00:09:24,089 Speaker 2: might be struggling while they're still under our roof? 152 00:09:24,570 --> 00:09:27,670 Speaker 1: Well, always first and foremost, no matter where your child 153 00:09:27,770 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: is on their journey, pray, pray, pray, pray. And sometimes 154 00:09:32,780 --> 00:09:34,740 Speaker 1: we look at that as a last resort. It's our 155 00:09:34,780 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: first line of defense. It is the very first thing. 156 00:09:38,140 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: And one thing I've come to understand is that over 157 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,530 Speaker 1: the years is we need to move into our authority 158 00:09:43,670 --> 00:09:46,540 Speaker 1: as parents in prayer. We have an authority over what 159 00:09:46,580 --> 00:09:50,620 Speaker 1: we have authored. I have an authority to pray into 160 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:52,890 Speaker 1: my kids' lives that I don't have to pray into 161 00:09:52,929 --> 00:09:56,969 Speaker 1: your kids' lives or someone else in the world. I 162 00:09:56,990 --> 00:10:01,300 Speaker 1: can pray for whoever, and those prayers are powerful and effective. 163 00:10:01,340 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: But when I'm praying for my child, God has authored 164 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,500 Speaker 1: that child through me. And so I have a unique 165 00:10:06,540 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: authority there because God is a God that honors authority. 166 00:10:10,059 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: And so that's a place where if my child is 167 00:10:12,900 --> 00:10:17,140 Speaker 1: struggling physically, if they're struggling emotionally, if they're struggling spiritually, 168 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm heading into a heavenly courtroom. And I 169 00:10:20,700 --> 00:10:23,610 Speaker 1: am getting busy with the enemy and saying, Lord, he 170 00:10:23,690 --> 00:10:27,510 Speaker 1: is trespassing here. He is wreaking havoc. This is your child. 171 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,660 Speaker 1: get your hands off my child. And I've got scriptures 172 00:10:30,700 --> 00:10:33,579 Speaker 1: that I pray through. I've got a couple of indexed lists. Well, 173 00:10:33,740 --> 00:10:36,839 Speaker 1: one index list over top topical index list. That's a 174 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:40,790 Speaker 1: free resource on my website for subscribing that, you know, 175 00:10:41,010 --> 00:10:42,910 Speaker 1: would help you to find, okay, if your child is 176 00:10:42,929 --> 00:10:44,890 Speaker 1: struggling in this area, this would be a good scripture. 177 00:10:44,950 --> 00:10:47,550 Speaker 1: But then I also have a list of scriptures to 178 00:10:47,610 --> 00:10:49,900 Speaker 1: pray if your child is struggling in their faith or 179 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,569 Speaker 1: is a prodigal. So while your child is still in 180 00:10:52,590 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: your home, one thing I would say is make sure 181 00:10:54,910 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: you understand what stage of parenting you're in. I've talked 182 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: about this on my podcast before. There's really four primary 183 00:11:01,300 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: stages of parenting. The first stage is the caregiver. And 184 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:07,839 Speaker 1: we look at that as being sometimes it's the most 185 00:11:07,900 --> 00:11:10,309 Speaker 1: exhausting and difficult. It's not the most difficult. It may 186 00:11:10,330 --> 00:11:13,469 Speaker 1: be the most exhausting, but it's not the most difficult stage, 187 00:11:13,510 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: I assure you. But that's, you know, when your child 188 00:11:15,780 --> 00:11:17,980 Speaker 1: is young and infant and you're up all the time 189 00:11:18,020 --> 00:11:20,100 Speaker 1: and you're tending to their every need. You know, you're 190 00:11:20,140 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: changing the diapers, you're feeding them, you're washing them, you're 191 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,420 Speaker 1: loving them and all of those things. So you're the caregiver. 192 00:11:25,460 --> 00:11:27,740 Speaker 1: But then we advance to this phase of being the 193 00:11:27,780 --> 00:11:30,620 Speaker 1: cop where we're like, don't touch this. Don't go there. 194 00:11:31,140 --> 00:11:34,370 Speaker 1: You know, be careful. And we're trying to keep them safe. Right. 195 00:11:34,450 --> 00:11:38,829 Speaker 1: At this point, they have limited understanding, but lots of mobility. 196 00:11:38,910 --> 00:11:40,990 Speaker 1: So we're trying to keep them safe. We've become the cop. 197 00:11:42,090 --> 00:11:44,250 Speaker 1: But then in the elementary school years and through the 198 00:11:44,270 --> 00:11:47,580 Speaker 1: middle school years, we're in this and some of the 199 00:11:47,620 --> 00:11:51,020 Speaker 1: high school years where we're becoming a coach. And as 200 00:11:51,059 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: we're the coach, we're not just saying don't do this anymore. 201 00:11:54,980 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: We're telling them why you don't want to touch the 202 00:11:57,540 --> 00:12:00,890 Speaker 1: hot stove because it will burn your hand. You don't 203 00:12:00,980 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: want to run into the street to get the ball 204 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,300 Speaker 1: because you could get hit by a car. We want 205 00:12:05,340 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: them to understand the why in this phase so that 206 00:12:08,540 --> 00:12:12,199 Speaker 1: they can learn for themselves. So when you're not there, 207 00:12:12,300 --> 00:12:14,700 Speaker 1: when they are in the front yard and you aren't there, 208 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,380 Speaker 1: that they understand why they're not running into the street, 209 00:12:18,470 --> 00:12:20,650 Speaker 1: why they're not playing with knives. And of course, that 210 00:12:20,690 --> 00:12:23,370 Speaker 1: goes on as we're teaching them as they get older, 211 00:12:23,490 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: why God designed us and, you know, with two X 212 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:31,500 Speaker 1: chromosomes or an XY chromosome and what that means, that 213 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,500 Speaker 1: that's not just an anomaly and we can't change that 214 00:12:35,300 --> 00:12:38,110 Speaker 1: and the ramifications of trying to change that. So we're 215 00:12:38,170 --> 00:12:42,770 Speaker 1: having those deeper conversations because we're the coach, we're teaching them, 216 00:12:42,830 --> 00:12:46,150 Speaker 1: but then we're explaining to them the why. But then 217 00:12:46,230 --> 00:12:50,510 Speaker 1: we transition in the late high school to early adult 218 00:12:50,570 --> 00:12:54,839 Speaker 1: years to being a counselor and My counselor doesn't come 219 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,300 Speaker 1: into my home usually unless you're on a Zoom call. 220 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: But I mean, in general, they're not, you know, they're 221 00:12:59,100 --> 00:13:02,710 Speaker 1: not calling me. They're not a part of my everyday 222 00:13:02,770 --> 00:13:05,429 Speaker 1: life in the sense that they're giving me advice all 223 00:13:05,470 --> 00:13:08,490 Speaker 1: the time. That's the advice you get when you ask 224 00:13:08,570 --> 00:13:10,929 Speaker 1: for it, right? I ask for my counselor. Okay, here's 225 00:13:10,950 --> 00:13:13,459 Speaker 1: what I'm going through. What are your thoughts on this? 226 00:13:14,210 --> 00:13:17,910 Speaker 1: And you transition into this stage because your child has 227 00:13:17,970 --> 00:13:20,710 Speaker 1: a free will and they're an adult now or almost 228 00:13:20,770 --> 00:13:22,950 Speaker 1: an adult now. And you need to honor that phase 229 00:13:22,990 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: of their life, even if they're not serving the Lord. Now, 230 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: if they're still in your home, here's what's critically important. 231 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:33,580 Speaker 1: You do have boundaries, right? And my home, these are 232 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:37,620 Speaker 1: the boundaries. If you want to live outside of those boundaries, okay, 233 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,030 Speaker 1: but you can't live outside of those boundaries while you 234 00:13:40,070 --> 00:13:42,030 Speaker 1: live here because we all live in boundaries, right? My 235 00:13:42,070 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: husband and I live in boundaries, right? My husband is 236 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: not allowed to go out all night, hours of the night, drinking, carousing, 237 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:50,739 Speaker 1: being with whoever he wants to be with, right? And 238 00:13:50,780 --> 00:13:52,660 Speaker 1: come back home and expect me to be waiting for him. 239 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,660 Speaker 1: That's not how that works. There's a boundary there. Vice versa. 240 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:57,719 Speaker 1: There's a boundary. I can't just go and do whatever 241 00:13:57,780 --> 00:14:00,719 Speaker 1: I want. Neither can your child. And that's a hard 242 00:14:00,740 --> 00:14:02,540 Speaker 1: thing to do when your child isn't walking with the 243 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: Lord or is questioning things. But you still need to 244 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,140 Speaker 1: make sure, okay, these are our boundaries, but you need 245 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:12,620 Speaker 1: to allow them the freedom to be the adult that 246 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:16,109 Speaker 1: God's creating them to be. And make sure this is 247 00:14:16,170 --> 00:14:19,670 Speaker 1: critically important. I should have maybe led with this. So 248 00:14:19,690 --> 00:14:22,310 Speaker 1: let me just emphasize this greatly. If your child is 249 00:14:22,350 --> 00:14:25,250 Speaker 1: struggling in their faith and they've been open with you 250 00:14:25,290 --> 00:14:28,330 Speaker 1: about that, first and foremost, when that conversation, if that 251 00:14:28,370 --> 00:14:33,970 Speaker 1: conversation comes, commend them for their courage in telling you. Say, 252 00:14:34,010 --> 00:14:35,390 Speaker 1: thank you for telling me. I know that took a 253 00:14:35,430 --> 00:14:37,550 Speaker 1: lot of courage because you know what I believe. And 254 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: you're questioning that and you may believe something different. I 255 00:14:41,030 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: want you to know that's okay. And I love you 256 00:14:46,300 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: regardless of what you think, what you say, or what 257 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:54,050 Speaker 1: you do in this life. Whatever path you go down, 258 00:14:54,450 --> 00:14:57,370 Speaker 1: whatever you choose to do in this life, I'm going 259 00:14:57,430 --> 00:14:59,290 Speaker 1: to love you. And you know why I love you 260 00:14:59,670 --> 00:15:02,170 Speaker 1: like that? Because God loves you like that. God loves 261 00:15:02,190 --> 00:15:05,450 Speaker 1: you like that. So my love is unconditional. And that 262 00:15:05,510 --> 00:15:08,450 Speaker 1: is really where we need to lead with our kids 263 00:15:09,110 --> 00:15:10,750 Speaker 1: when they're walking with the Lord or if they aren't 264 00:15:10,790 --> 00:15:12,790 Speaker 1: walking with the Lord. But especially if they aren't, because 265 00:15:12,830 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: that's the first thing they're going to question is, Does 266 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:17,979 Speaker 1: my mom or my dad still love me, even if 267 00:15:18,020 --> 00:15:19,940 Speaker 1: I don't believe what they've taught me all of this time? 268 00:15:20,340 --> 00:15:23,540 Speaker 1: Do they still love me? Is that relationship secure? You've 269 00:15:23,580 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: got to secure that relationship. So make sure that you're 270 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: doing that. set appropriate and healthy boundaries. You may believe this, 271 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,300 Speaker 1: but you can't practice that while you live here. You 272 00:15:35,340 --> 00:15:38,380 Speaker 1: may believe it's okay to do marijuana, but you can't 273 00:15:38,420 --> 00:15:41,860 Speaker 1: do that while you live here. If that's the life 274 00:15:41,940 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: you want to pursue, I don't encourage that. I'm dead 275 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: set against that. I love you even if you do, 276 00:15:47,540 --> 00:15:49,140 Speaker 1: but you're going to have to pay your own rent 277 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: in your own way if that's what you want to do. 278 00:15:51,180 --> 00:15:53,590 Speaker 1: If you're going to do drugs, you can't live here. 279 00:15:53,670 --> 00:15:58,630 Speaker 1: If you want to live in sexual relationships that aren't biblical, 280 00:15:59,750 --> 00:16:02,130 Speaker 1: you can't do that while you live here. That just 281 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: isn't allowed. So establishing those healthy boundaries, but making sure 282 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: first and foremost that they know that you love them 283 00:16:10,620 --> 00:16:13,540 Speaker 1: regardless of what they think, say, or do, because God 284 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: loves us that way. And when you have that kind 285 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:21,660 Speaker 1: of secure relationship, then you've got the avenue of communication 286 00:16:21,780 --> 00:16:25,110 Speaker 1: open to continue to be that counselor and to consent 287 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: continue to be a voice of truth in their lives. 288 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:34,010 Speaker 1: That would be where I would start and lead. Because honestly, 289 00:16:34,050 --> 00:16:37,830 Speaker 1: if they're in their teen years and they're questioning, they 290 00:16:37,850 --> 00:16:40,229 Speaker 1: already know the truth because you probably already taught it 291 00:16:40,250 --> 00:16:42,570 Speaker 1: to them. They don't need another sermon. What they need 292 00:16:42,630 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: is an encounter with the living God. How are they 293 00:16:45,940 --> 00:16:49,300 Speaker 1: going to encounter him? Not through a sermon from you. 294 00:16:49,540 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: They've already had that probably. They don't need another sermon. 295 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: They need to see the love of God in action 296 00:16:55,160 --> 00:17:00,180 Speaker 1: through you. And that will be the biggest testament. Does 297 00:17:00,220 --> 00:17:02,350 Speaker 1: God love me even if I don't believe in him? 298 00:17:02,410 --> 00:17:04,650 Speaker 1: Does God love me? Does my mom love me even 299 00:17:04,710 --> 00:17:07,610 Speaker 1: if I reject everything she's ever taught me? They need 300 00:17:07,650 --> 00:17:11,570 Speaker 1: to know that you do. That is of the utmost importance. 301 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:23,420 Speaker 2: I love that you emphasized the relationship there because I think, 302 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:25,300 Speaker 2: you know, if our kids come to us and they 303 00:17:25,340 --> 00:17:28,300 Speaker 2: tell us, oh, well, I decided I'm going to choose 304 00:17:28,340 --> 00:17:33,020 Speaker 2: this lifestyle and we freak out and oh my word, 305 00:17:33,060 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 2: I can't believe that. 306 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:34,770 Speaker 1: Absolutely not. 307 00:17:34,810 --> 00:17:37,550 Speaker 2: You're grounded for a month and they're never going to 308 00:17:37,590 --> 00:17:41,730 Speaker 2: come and tell you anything ever again. I love that 309 00:17:41,770 --> 00:17:43,949 Speaker 2: you said commend them for their courage. You know, wow, 310 00:17:44,410 --> 00:17:45,750 Speaker 2: that must have been really hard for you to come 311 00:17:45,790 --> 00:17:46,370 Speaker 2: and tell me that. 312 00:17:46,470 --> 00:17:47,030 Speaker 1: Thank you. 313 00:17:47,050 --> 00:17:51,030 Speaker 2: I love you no matter what. I love you regardless 314 00:17:51,070 --> 00:17:53,629 Speaker 2: of what you do. And I think that is so, 315 00:17:53,730 --> 00:17:56,190 Speaker 2: so important because if you do want to have any 316 00:17:56,270 --> 00:17:59,129 Speaker 2: influence in the lives of your kids down the road, 317 00:17:59,470 --> 00:18:01,629 Speaker 2: you have to have that relationship. If you don't have 318 00:18:01,670 --> 00:18:04,790 Speaker 2: a relationship, there will be no influence. And you're absolutely right. 319 00:18:04,810 --> 00:18:07,169 Speaker 2: They don't need a sermon. They know if you've been 320 00:18:07,190 --> 00:18:09,670 Speaker 2: doing your job from the time they were babies, they 321 00:18:09,710 --> 00:18:12,380 Speaker 2: know the truth. They know the truth. And I love 322 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:16,020 Speaker 2: that you emphasize prayer too, just praying for God to 323 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 2: work in their hearts for God, because God is the 324 00:18:18,340 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 2: one who changes hearts. We don't have that control. Like 325 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,980 Speaker 2: we can do all of the things that we've talked about. 326 00:18:26,020 --> 00:18:28,919 Speaker 2: We can teach them a biblical worldview. We can have 327 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 2: family devotions. We can memorize scripture together as a family, 328 00:18:32,020 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 2: but ultimately we don't have control over their hearts. They 329 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,270 Speaker 2: can change their hearts and they can choose to follow 330 00:18:37,290 --> 00:18:39,700 Speaker 2: God and God can work in their hearts. to change, 331 00:18:40,020 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 2: to change their lives. And I think this kind of 332 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 2: leads into, I know you talk about a little bit 333 00:18:43,940 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 2: on some of your podcasts about just the different responsibilities. 334 00:18:47,540 --> 00:18:50,859 Speaker 2: You talk about our responsibility as parents. What is the 335 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,379 Speaker 2: responsibility of the child and what is God's responsibility? Can 336 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,970 Speaker 2: you just briefly talk about that? So I know a 337 00:18:55,970 --> 00:19:01,430 Speaker 2: lot of parents probably feel very guilty and overwhelmed when 338 00:19:01,650 --> 00:19:05,300 Speaker 2: their child is questioning their faith. And they think that, oh, 339 00:19:05,340 --> 00:19:07,719 Speaker 2: I must have done something wrong. This must be my fault, 340 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,780 Speaker 2: where it might not be in their realm of responsibility. 341 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:13,660 Speaker 2: So can you just talk about that really briefly? 342 00:19:13,820 --> 00:19:16,700 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. That is one of the first things a 343 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: parent would feel is, what did I do wrong? And 344 00:19:20,580 --> 00:19:22,719 Speaker 1: let's face it, we've all done something wrong as parents. 345 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,889 Speaker 1: None of us got through this perfectly. Did I make 346 00:19:25,910 --> 00:19:29,990 Speaker 1: some mistakes? Absolutely. When you realize what your mistake is, 347 00:19:30,130 --> 00:19:33,669 Speaker 1: own it and be humble about it. And go to 348 00:19:33,690 --> 00:19:36,669 Speaker 1: your child and repent and say, I'm sorry. I'm sorry 349 00:19:36,750 --> 00:19:41,950 Speaker 1: for these mistakes that I made. And that humility and 350 00:19:42,150 --> 00:19:46,010 Speaker 1: asking forgiveness is a bridge builder. So that's a really 351 00:19:46,130 --> 00:19:48,910 Speaker 1: big one. I would say another thing for a parent 352 00:19:48,950 --> 00:19:53,750 Speaker 1: who's feeling that guilt. understand this, God is the perfect parent. 353 00:19:53,890 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: You aren't, I'm not, there hasn't been a perfect parent since, 354 00:19:56,650 --> 00:19:58,780 Speaker 1: but God is the perfect parent. And he had two 355 00:19:58,820 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: kids in a garden that had an infinite number of 356 00:20:01,260 --> 00:20:03,260 Speaker 1: good choices they could make on any given day and 357 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 1: only one bad choice. Like I said, he was perfect. 358 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: Compare that to our kids. They have an infinite number 359 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:12,969 Speaker 1: of bad choices they can make in a given day 360 00:20:13,010 --> 00:20:16,250 Speaker 1: and only one good choice. That's follow Christ, right? So 361 00:20:16,290 --> 00:20:18,609 Speaker 1: that's the world we live in and we're imperfect. But 362 00:20:18,670 --> 00:20:20,510 Speaker 1: he was perfect and he had two kids in a 363 00:20:20,550 --> 00:20:23,690 Speaker 1: garden who could have done an infinite number of good choices, 364 00:20:23,830 --> 00:20:26,470 Speaker 1: one bad choice. And what did they do? They chose 365 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 1: the one bad choice with a perfect parent. So I 366 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,900 Speaker 1: would say to the parent who has a child who's 367 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,310 Speaker 1: questioning their faith or may have left the faith, God 368 00:20:36,369 --> 00:20:39,810 Speaker 1: understands what you are going through. And you could not 369 00:20:39,869 --> 00:20:42,270 Speaker 1: have parented your way out of this because you're not 370 00:20:42,310 --> 00:20:46,210 Speaker 1: perfect enough. Because God is perfect. But because God gives 371 00:20:46,270 --> 00:20:49,170 Speaker 1: us a free will, he gave your child a free will, 372 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:54,340 Speaker 1: they have that right to choose. And he can't usurp it, 373 00:20:54,420 --> 00:20:57,620 Speaker 1: nor should you. I was listening to a message recently. 374 00:20:58,650 --> 00:21:00,970 Speaker 1: someone was talking about the four ways that we often 375 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:07,740 Speaker 1: try to parent. Convince, convict, coerce, control. Convince, convict, coerce, control. 376 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,679 Speaker 1: This is not how we should be parenting. First of all, 377 00:21:10,740 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: convince and convict, that's above my pay grade. That's God's job. 378 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,530 Speaker 1: That's the Holy Spirit. He is supposed to convince my child. 379 00:21:17,810 --> 00:21:19,930 Speaker 1: He is supposed to convict my child. If I try 380 00:21:19,950 --> 00:21:24,129 Speaker 1: to operate and convince or convict my child, I am 381 00:21:24,290 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 1: operating above my pay grade and I'm taking on the 382 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:29,699 Speaker 1: office and the job of the Holy Spirit. I am 383 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,430 Speaker 1: not qualified for that. On the flip side, coerce and control, 384 00:21:33,550 --> 00:21:37,689 Speaker 1: who operates that way? Not God. That's the enemy. That's Satan. 385 00:21:37,990 --> 00:21:40,449 Speaker 1: So if I'm trying to coerce or control my child, 386 00:21:40,530 --> 00:21:45,140 Speaker 1: I'm operating in the spirit that is going to push 387 00:21:45,180 --> 00:21:47,660 Speaker 1: them away from me and push them away from God. 388 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 1: So I don't want to coerce or control. I don't 389 00:21:50,260 --> 00:21:52,300 Speaker 1: want to try to convince or convict. I don't want 390 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: to operate above or below my pay grade. Instead, I 391 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:59,410 Speaker 1: want to love I want to speak truth when prompted 392 00:21:59,470 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 1: by the Holy Spirit, not sermons, and to pray. That's 393 00:22:03,420 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: my job as the parent. Your child's job, if they're 394 00:22:06,780 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 1: still in your home, is to live within the boundaries 395 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,929 Speaker 1: that you've lovingly set. Because the boundaries in your home 396 00:22:12,010 --> 00:22:14,750 Speaker 1: come with benefits. And those benefits are for people who 397 00:22:14,770 --> 00:22:17,220 Speaker 1: live within the boundaries. So if they want to live 398 00:22:17,260 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: there and enjoy all the benefits of your home, then 399 00:22:20,260 --> 00:22:22,620 Speaker 1: that's wonderful. Make sure they know if they don't want that, 400 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,020 Speaker 1: that's fine. I love you. Let's find you a place 401 00:22:25,060 --> 00:22:27,540 Speaker 1: where you can live and do what you want to do. 402 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,060 Speaker 1: I'm still loving you. My door is always open to you, 403 00:22:30,140 --> 00:22:32,540 Speaker 1: but you can't do that here. So that would be 404 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,899 Speaker 1: your child's responsibility. And then God's responsibility is to be 405 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 1: the hound dog of hell and pursue your child. And 406 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,710 Speaker 1: he does that. We can rid some of those obstacles 407 00:22:40,890 --> 00:22:43,990 Speaker 1: through prayer. That's my job as a parent, first and foremost, 408 00:22:44,070 --> 00:22:45,010 Speaker 1: is to pray for my child. 409 00:22:45,710 --> 00:22:47,949 Speaker 2: Catherine, oh my goodness. There are just so many things 410 00:22:48,750 --> 00:22:51,129 Speaker 2: that are so important that we just talked about that 411 00:22:51,150 --> 00:22:53,530 Speaker 2: you just mentioned. And I can't wait to go back 412 00:22:53,590 --> 00:22:55,540 Speaker 2: and listen to this whole episode and take better notes. 413 00:22:55,580 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 2: I've been taking notes this whole time, but we are 414 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,580 Speaker 2: just about out of time. But tell us where our 415 00:23:00,619 --> 00:23:03,899 Speaker 2: listeners can find out more about you, about your podcast. 416 00:23:04,540 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 2: And we will definitely have links to some of those 417 00:23:06,260 --> 00:23:08,820 Speaker 2: resources that you mentioned in the show notes. And you 418 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 2: also have, I know you have on your website, a 419 00:23:11,380 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 2: prodigal bundle. 420 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:13,139 Speaker 1: Yes, I do. 421 00:23:13,850 --> 00:23:16,570 Speaker 2: So tell us a little bit about that and then 422 00:23:16,609 --> 00:23:18,620 Speaker 2: also where we can just get in touch with you. 423 00:23:19,540 --> 00:23:21,740 Speaker 1: Yeah. So I started off my whole show, Christian Parent 424 00:23:21,780 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: Crazy World, with the idea of, of helping to assuage 425 00:23:25,900 --> 00:23:30,170 Speaker 1: the youth exodus. And my tagline originally was that this 426 00:23:30,210 --> 00:23:32,790 Speaker 1: is a podcast about raising godly kids in an ungodly world. 427 00:23:32,810 --> 00:23:34,290 Speaker 1: And I was a little over a year into the 428 00:23:34,330 --> 00:23:38,090 Speaker 1: podcast and the weight of that heavy burden of that 429 00:23:38,170 --> 00:23:40,620 Speaker 1: tagline was weighing on me. I'm like, wait a second, 430 00:23:41,130 --> 00:23:43,619 Speaker 1: I can't do that. I can't produce godliness in my kids. 431 00:23:43,660 --> 00:23:46,420 Speaker 1: And so I switched my tagline to, it's a podcast 432 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: about being a godly parent in an ungodly world. That's 433 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 1: all I have control over. So I started, I have 434 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,780 Speaker 1: so many episodes that are on the prodigal journey that 435 00:23:55,820 --> 00:23:59,540 Speaker 1: was just heavy on my heart. And so I've assembled 436 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 1: all of those podcasts and articles that I've written that 437 00:24:04,220 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: would help parents along with the resources that I've created, 438 00:24:08,060 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: the scripture lists, and I put them all in one 439 00:24:10,619 --> 00:24:12,620 Speaker 1: bundle package so you don't have to go looking through 440 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: all of my material to find it. So that's one 441 00:24:16,060 --> 00:24:18,900 Speaker 1: of the free resources that parents would get if they 442 00:24:19,030 --> 00:24:22,270 Speaker 1: signed up at katherineseegers.com. And that will be sent to 443 00:24:22,350 --> 00:24:24,689 Speaker 1: you along with a number of other resources like the 444 00:24:24,730 --> 00:24:27,929 Speaker 1: scripture songs that I mentioned. So you can find that 445 00:24:27,970 --> 00:24:32,260 Speaker 1: all at Catherine at CatherineSegers.com. Christian Parent Crazy World, you 446 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:37,500 Speaker 1: can find on any podcasting list, you know, iTunes, Apple 447 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: Podcasts or Spotify, iHeart, wherever you listen to your podcast. 448 00:24:41,140 --> 00:24:42,990 Speaker 1: It's also on Life Audio. That's where you're going to 449 00:24:43,010 --> 00:24:44,970 Speaker 1: get all the good show notes and my website. You'll 450 00:24:44,990 --> 00:24:47,710 Speaker 1: get all the good show notes too. any of my episodes. 451 00:24:48,090 --> 00:24:52,129 Speaker 1: And I'm at my handle on Instagram is at katherineseegers.com. 452 00:24:52,170 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 1: And then Facebook is katherineseegerspeaker.com. So those are all the 453 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: ways you can find me. And also my email address 454 00:24:59,580 --> 00:25:03,139 Speaker 1: is katherine at katherineseegers.com. I love to hear from parents. 455 00:25:03,180 --> 00:25:06,020 Speaker 1: I get emails from parents all the time who have 456 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,910 Speaker 1: a child who's wandering. That's the number one reason people 457 00:25:08,950 --> 00:25:11,060 Speaker 1: write me. Because they have a child that's wandered away 458 00:25:11,100 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: from the faith. And they need some encouragement. They need 459 00:25:13,700 --> 00:25:16,780 Speaker 1: some prayer. And they need some resources to help them. 460 00:25:16,820 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 1: And that's what I'm here to help with. 461 00:25:20,540 --> 00:25:22,500 Speaker 2: Well, I know our listeners today are going to be 462 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,500 Speaker 2: so encouraged by your words of wisdom. And I know 463 00:25:26,580 --> 00:25:28,679 Speaker 2: I was encouraged as well. So, Catherine, thank you so 464 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,070 Speaker 2: much for joining us today on Redeeming the Chaos. 465 00:25:31,790 --> 00:25:33,350 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. It was an 466 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,429 Speaker 1: honor to be here. Before you go, I hope that 467 00:25:36,470 --> 00:25:40,150 Speaker 1: you'll just stick around. I have some final thoughts. After 468 00:25:40,190 --> 00:25:42,690 Speaker 1: this conversation, and I'm going to pull out a few 469 00:25:42,950 --> 00:25:46,430 Speaker 1: biblical applications, I'm going to share another example of what 470 00:25:46,510 --> 00:25:50,100 Speaker 1: not to do, or really some ground that we do 471 00:25:50,190 --> 00:25:54,659 Speaker 1: not need to concede as Christians and as parents when 472 00:25:54,700 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: you're parenting a prodigal. And then I'm going to give 473 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:01,740 Speaker 1: you a very practical recap of the guidelines in this 474 00:26:01,780 --> 00:26:05,369 Speaker 1: conversation with some handy bullet points that you can actually 475 00:26:05,430 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: keep and refer back to. So if you're parenting a 476 00:26:07,859 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: child who's struggling in their faith, I know that these 477 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: closing thoughts are going to help you take everything that 478 00:26:12,820 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 1: we've talked about today and put it into practice. I 479 00:26:24,530 --> 00:26:27,610 Speaker 1: just love what Lori said in this interview. If you 480 00:26:27,730 --> 00:26:30,630 Speaker 1: don't have a strong relationship with your child, you will 481 00:26:30,690 --> 00:26:36,220 Speaker 1: have no influence. A few final thoughts on that profound message. No, 482 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,500 Speaker 1: you know, I ran across a comment from an agnostic 483 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,500 Speaker 1: that made me so sad recently. He was addressing this 484 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: comment to a Christian, to someone who was actually defending 485 00:26:46,859 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: the Christian faith. And he said, if I don't believe 486 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,139 Speaker 1: in your God and do what he says, he doesn't 487 00:26:53,220 --> 00:26:58,020 Speaker 1: love me. And the Christian who responded to him essentially 488 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:02,609 Speaker 1: acknowledged the premise of this comment as if it were true, 489 00:27:02,619 --> 00:27:05,369 Speaker 1: that God doesn't love us if we don't believe in 490 00:27:05,450 --> 00:27:11,570 Speaker 1: him or we don't follow him. I was like, what? Seriously? 491 00:27:11,590 --> 00:27:16,790 Speaker 1: That is some low-hanging fruit, biblically speaking, because scripture is 492 00:27:16,810 --> 00:27:20,649 Speaker 1: so clear on this point. Unfortunately, even a lot of 493 00:27:20,730 --> 00:27:24,750 Speaker 1: Christians don't realize this, and a lot of parents don't 494 00:27:25,030 --> 00:27:27,230 Speaker 1: don't realize it either. And they don't act like this 495 00:27:27,270 --> 00:27:30,770 Speaker 1: in their own parenting. But let's be clear about this. 496 00:27:31,510 --> 00:27:34,490 Speaker 1: We do not have to believe in God for him 497 00:27:34,540 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 1: to love us. We do not have to agree with 498 00:27:37,619 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: God for him to love us. We do not have 499 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:45,260 Speaker 1: to follow God or live by God's standard for him 500 00:27:45,660 --> 00:27:50,130 Speaker 1: to love us. The good shepherd will leave the 99 501 00:27:50,130 --> 00:27:54,149 Speaker 1: found sheep to go in search of the one lost lamb. 502 00:27:54,590 --> 00:27:56,590 Speaker 1: Then there's the story of the prodigal son in Scripture 503 00:27:56,609 --> 00:28:01,980 Speaker 1: where the father, who represents God, is waiting anxiously, looking 504 00:28:02,020 --> 00:28:04,619 Speaker 1: out the window every single day for his son to 505 00:28:04,660 --> 00:28:07,859 Speaker 1: come home. And Luke tells us in chapter 15 of 506 00:28:07,900 --> 00:28:11,260 Speaker 1: that gospel that while the son was still a long 507 00:28:11,380 --> 00:28:16,370 Speaker 1: way off, that the father runs after him. He lavishes 508 00:28:16,430 --> 00:28:19,910 Speaker 1: him with love and affection and gifts and a celebration. 509 00:28:21,250 --> 00:28:25,460 Speaker 1: And Romans 5 verse 8 tells us, that God demonstrates 510 00:28:25,500 --> 00:28:28,580 Speaker 1: his own love for us in this. While we were 511 00:28:28,660 --> 00:28:35,389 Speaker 1: still sinners, Christ died for us. Christ's death is the 512 00:28:35,550 --> 00:28:38,650 Speaker 1: ultimate expression of God's love, and he did that while 513 00:28:38,690 --> 00:28:42,350 Speaker 1: we were still wandering from him. We do not have 514 00:28:42,390 --> 00:28:46,410 Speaker 1: to follow God or even believe in God for him 515 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:52,530 Speaker 1: to love us. God's love is unconditional. Now, salvation has 516 00:28:52,570 --> 00:28:54,990 Speaker 1: some conditions that are all up to us. God will 517 00:28:55,030 --> 00:28:57,490 Speaker 1: not force us to be with him for all of eternity, 518 00:28:57,970 --> 00:29:01,820 Speaker 1: but God's love is given to everyone and the sacrifice 519 00:29:01,860 --> 00:29:06,140 Speaker 1: that Christ made on the cross. Now, God won't force 520 00:29:06,180 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: us to receive that love, but he offers it to everyone. 521 00:29:08,740 --> 00:29:13,239 Speaker 1: Everyone So like God, as parents, we must love our 522 00:29:13,300 --> 00:29:18,820 Speaker 1: kids unconditionally, regardless of what they think, say, or do. 523 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 1: And they need to know that we love them that way. 524 00:29:22,700 --> 00:29:25,910 Speaker 1: Loving our kids unconditionally is the most important way we 525 00:29:25,950 --> 00:29:30,050 Speaker 1: can minister to them in a place of wandering or doubt. 526 00:29:31,450 --> 00:29:35,290 Speaker 1: This is so important, moms and dads. As Christians, we 527 00:29:35,350 --> 00:29:39,350 Speaker 1: must not operate like some kind of a cult. I've 528 00:29:39,390 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: known some cults. Christians who have operated that way. They 529 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,020 Speaker 1: have shunned or disassociated themselves from a child who has 530 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:50,530 Speaker 1: left the faith. That is not biblical. Yes, now, if 531 00:29:50,570 --> 00:29:53,730 Speaker 1: someone is teaching an errant gospel, we should call that 532 00:29:53,930 --> 00:29:58,150 Speaker 1: out because it is dangerous. We should disassociate ourselves from 533 00:29:58,430 --> 00:30:03,380 Speaker 1: their theology. But if someone questions the faith, we must 534 00:30:03,740 --> 00:30:07,940 Speaker 1: patiently answer their questions. If they leave the faith, we 535 00:30:07,980 --> 00:30:13,790 Speaker 1: must love them unconditionally, no strings attached, and fervently pray 536 00:30:13,830 --> 00:30:17,230 Speaker 1: for them to return to faith, to have an encounter 537 00:30:17,710 --> 00:30:21,890 Speaker 1: with God. So to recap how to parent the prodigal 538 00:30:21,950 --> 00:30:24,150 Speaker 1: child or the child who is struggling in their faith, 539 00:30:24,670 --> 00:30:29,030 Speaker 1: number one, first and foremost, pray. Like I said, prayer 540 00:30:29,110 --> 00:30:32,590 Speaker 1: is a first line of defense, not a last resort. 541 00:30:32,730 --> 00:30:36,050 Speaker 1: And you need to recognize your authority in prayer. Episode 542 00:30:36,050 --> 00:30:40,370 Speaker 1: 14 of CPCW was on how to battle for your 543 00:30:40,430 --> 00:30:44,990 Speaker 1: kids in prayer. Great resource there if you need some 544 00:30:45,170 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: prayer instruction. That is one of the episodes contained in 545 00:30:48,380 --> 00:30:51,300 Speaker 1: the Prodigal Bundle, by the way. You've got to rid 546 00:30:51,340 --> 00:30:55,450 Speaker 1: the obstacles in your child's life in prayer. Number two, 547 00:30:55,890 --> 00:30:59,390 Speaker 1: recognize and respect what stage of parenting you are in. 548 00:30:59,490 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: If you have an adult child, do not, I repeat, 549 00:31:02,980 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: do not continually give them unsolicited advice, even if they 550 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,550 Speaker 1: are making bad choices. Now, we should never cave on truth, 551 00:31:10,910 --> 00:31:12,970 Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean we should beat someone over the 552 00:31:13,010 --> 00:31:15,740 Speaker 1: head with truth either. Like I said, if you've raised 553 00:31:15,780 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 1: your child biblically, they already know the truth. You can 554 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: speak wisdom into their life as the Holy Spirit prompts you, 555 00:31:23,700 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: but if you are always lecturing your child, they're going 556 00:31:26,100 --> 00:31:28,660 Speaker 1: to resent you and push you away, and you will 557 00:31:28,740 --> 00:31:33,110 Speaker 1: lose all your influence in their life. Number three, if 558 00:31:33,130 --> 00:31:36,090 Speaker 1: you have An older teen or an adult child living 559 00:31:36,110 --> 00:31:41,650 Speaker 1: in your home, prayerfully establish godly boundaries. If your child 560 00:31:41,690 --> 00:31:44,430 Speaker 1: wants the blessings of living in your home, they must 561 00:31:44,690 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: live within those boundaries. Side note here, remember, that is 562 00:31:48,300 --> 00:31:51,220 Speaker 1: how God parents us. If we want the blessings of 563 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,460 Speaker 1: living under his covering, and there are a lot of 564 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 1: blessings when we live there, we must live within his boundaries. 565 00:31:58,980 --> 00:32:02,450 Speaker 1: Boundaries bless and protect us. Now, we're still going to 566 00:32:02,550 --> 00:32:04,630 Speaker 1: love a child if they choose to live outside of 567 00:32:04,670 --> 00:32:08,250 Speaker 1: those boundaries, but we will not bless them in that 568 00:32:08,310 --> 00:32:14,730 Speaker 1: place because that becomes enabling. Number four, apologize for the 569 00:32:14,770 --> 00:32:18,930 Speaker 1: times you have been wrong. Humility is a bridge builder. 570 00:32:19,290 --> 00:32:23,530 Speaker 1: Number five, do not try to convince or convict your child. Rather, 571 00:32:23,670 --> 00:32:27,890 Speaker 1: allow the Holy Spirit to do the convincing and the convicting. 572 00:32:28,190 --> 00:32:32,370 Speaker 1: Number six, do not coerce or control your child. That 573 00:32:32,410 --> 00:32:34,330 Speaker 1: is how the enemy works, and you will become a 574 00:32:34,390 --> 00:32:39,870 Speaker 1: tool of the enemy if you coerce or control your child. Finally, 575 00:32:40,310 --> 00:32:43,350 Speaker 1: number seven, last but not least, remember your child does 576 00:32:43,450 --> 00:32:48,050 Speaker 1: not need a sermon. They need an experience. They need 577 00:32:48,150 --> 00:32:51,410 Speaker 1: an encounter with God. I think I'm going to do 578 00:32:51,430 --> 00:32:54,490 Speaker 1: like a whole episode on that one really soon. Okay, 579 00:32:54,860 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 1: I'd like to end this episode with a word of 580 00:32:57,900 --> 00:33:00,980 Speaker 1: prayer for all of the prodigal parents who are tuning 581 00:33:01,140 --> 00:33:07,130 Speaker 1: in right now. Dear Heavenly Father, encourage every mom and 582 00:33:07,170 --> 00:33:10,050 Speaker 1: every dad under the sound of my voice. Help them 583 00:33:10,110 --> 00:33:13,210 Speaker 1: to see that you love their child more than they do. 584 00:33:13,230 --> 00:33:17,210 Speaker 1: And you have a plan to redeem the choices that 585 00:33:17,230 --> 00:33:21,229 Speaker 1: they are making right now. I pray that every struggling 586 00:33:21,270 --> 00:33:25,540 Speaker 1: and wayward child represented by these deeply concerned parents and 587 00:33:25,580 --> 00:33:29,450 Speaker 1: grandparents would be given the spirit of wisdom and revelation 588 00:33:29,490 --> 00:33:32,230 Speaker 1: so that they may know you better. I pray that 589 00:33:32,250 --> 00:33:35,410 Speaker 1: the eyes of their heart would be enlightened so that 590 00:33:35,460 --> 00:33:37,500 Speaker 1: they would know the hope to which you have called them, 591 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,620 Speaker 1: the riches of your glorious inheritance and your holy people 592 00:33:42,260 --> 00:33:47,550 Speaker 1: and your incomparably great power for us who believe. That 593 00:33:47,610 --> 00:33:50,630 Speaker 1: power is the same power that rose Christ Jesus from 594 00:33:50,670 --> 00:33:55,220 Speaker 1: the dead. So I pray that every struggling person wayward, 595 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:59,900 Speaker 1: prodigal child would come alive. In the name of Jesus, 596 00:33:59,940 --> 00:34:02,070 Speaker 1: I pray that you would raise them from the dead, 597 00:34:02,090 --> 00:34:05,930 Speaker 1: that you would bring life from the dead places in 598 00:34:05,950 --> 00:34:09,710 Speaker 1: their lives and set their feet on solid ground. I 599 00:34:09,750 --> 00:34:12,350 Speaker 1: pray that you would give them a new song and 600 00:34:12,390 --> 00:34:14,890 Speaker 1: I pray that what the enemy intended for harm in 601 00:34:14,950 --> 00:34:20,970 Speaker 1: their lives would be used for eternal good. I pray 602 00:34:20,989 --> 00:34:23,360 Speaker 1: that you would cause all things to work together for 603 00:34:23,380 --> 00:34:26,359 Speaker 1: the good of those families and these parents and these 604 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: children as they love you and are called according to 605 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:40,450 Speaker 1: your purpose. In the name of Jesus, I pray. Amen. 606 00:34:41,590 --> 00:34:44,210 Speaker 1: Got a little emotional there. That's how I pray through 607 00:34:44,250 --> 00:34:48,489 Speaker 1: the scriptures, by the way. I used portions of Ephesians 1. 608 00:34:48,489 --> 00:34:52,810 Speaker 1: Verses 17 through 20, Psalm 40, verses 2 through 3, 609 00:34:52,810 --> 00:34:57,050 Speaker 1: Genesis 50, verse 20, and Romans 8, 28. In that prayer, 610 00:34:57,350 --> 00:35:00,230 Speaker 1: there is nothing more powerful than praying the word of 611 00:35:00,290 --> 00:35:05,130 Speaker 1: God over your kids. God's word will not return void. 612 00:35:05,510 --> 00:35:10,469 Speaker 1: We learn that in Isaiah chapter 55, verse 11. As always, 613 00:35:10,969 --> 00:35:13,899 Speaker 1: drop me a line at Catherine at CatherineSegers.com if you 614 00:35:14,020 --> 00:35:17,660 Speaker 1: are in need of some encouragement or prayer. I'd love 615 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:21,739 Speaker 1: to hear from you. and pray for you personally. And 616 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:27,100 Speaker 1: as always, remember, God gave you your kids, your specific kids, 617 00:35:27,739 --> 00:35:31,500 Speaker 1: for a reason. That's because you hold the key to 618 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 1: unlocking who God created them to be. We'll see you 619 00:35:35,340 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 1: next time. Christian Parent Crazy World is a production of 620 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,630 Speaker 1: Life Audio and Salem Media. For more faith-filled, inspirational podcasts, 621 00:35:49,650 --> 00:35:50,410 Speaker 1: visit us at lifeaudio.com.