WEBVTT - The Battle Over the White House East Wing 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.720 Welcome to today's podcast sponsored by Hillsdale College, all Things 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.440 Hilldale Hillsdale dot ed or. I encourage you to take 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:08.920 advantage of the many free online courses there, and of 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:11.280 course I'll listen to the Hilldale dialogues, all of them 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:14.560 at Q for Hillsdale dot com or just Google, Apple 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:19.439 iTunes and Hilldale Morning Laurie and even Grace America. I'm 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:21.920 g Qwitt, so I'm glad that you are joining us 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:26.040 on this Monday, August seventeenth, twenty twenty six. We happen 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:27.920 to be on the Salem News Channel and you may 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:30.840 be watching on Roku or Samsung or Amazon or one 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:33.560 of the over the top services. I'm also on the 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:36.800 Salem Radio Network, lots of affiliates across the country this week, 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:40.080 though we're also on c SPAN c SPAN two. I 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:43.600 think this marks well over my fiftieth appearance on ze Span, 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:46.519 thanks to years and years of having friends there like 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:51.080 Brian Lamb, Howard Mortman, Peters Slan and now the estimable 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:54.120 Sam Fistu is their new CEO and has been for 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:56.760 a couple of years. So let's put on Hewitt for 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:59.520 a week and see if we can drive the audience crazy. 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:02.480 But I've got a plan put on smart people instead 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:05.840 of me, and I'm starting with two law professors. The 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:08.640 smart guy is two point zero. James Phillips is the 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:12.600 professor of law at Saint Thomas Law School in Miami Gardens, Florida, 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:16.160 and Professor Josh Blackman is at South Texas School of 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:19.240 Law of course in Houston, Texas. Josh is also the 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:22.479 co author of the best constitutional law casebook out there, 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:25.840 Cases and Materials, which he co author is with our 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:29.959 friend Randy Barnett. Now I asked them on because tomorrow 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:33.440 Chief Justice Roberts will get the submission from the National 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:37.880 Trust for Historic Preservation in response to the petition for 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:41.480 a stay filed by the National Park Service in a 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:45.560 case called National Trust for Historic Preservation versus National Park Service, 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:48.600 which is really about what the President can and cannot 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:52.840 do to his house and the national security facilities around it. 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:55.720 So I'd like to begin with you, Josh Blackman, since 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:59.600 you've got the casebook, I've made my opinion known on X. 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:03.720 The President has reposted that opinion on XI. Think he 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:06.800 agrees with me. What do you think about this and 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:09.280 what do you think the Chief Justice should do? And 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:10.520 what do you think he will do? 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:12.440 Well? 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:15.640 Thanks for having us back. There are sort of two 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:20.280 categories of issues here. First, Joes Trump have the power 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:23.760 of the duty's doing, and second do the courts. 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:24.520 The power to stop it? 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:27.000 And I think the second question is actually more important 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:29.880 and the law there's something called standing. It's kind of 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:32.760 this weird topic, but it means what's it to you? 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:33.239 Right? 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:35.680 In other words, you don't like something, how does it 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:38.320 affect you? And usually in order to go to federal 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:40.400 court to bring a lawsuit, you have to be injured 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:43.440 or hurt by some government action. The weird thing about 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:46.320 this case is no one's really being injured. 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:48.639 You have a person in Washington, d c. 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:51.799 Who likes to walk past the White House and likes 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:54.400 to look at it and reflect on how beautiful it is. 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:57.040 And she says she likes the esthetics of how the 0:02:57.080 --> 0:02:59.960 old East Wing looks and doesn't like the new ballroom 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:03.600 that's being constructed. So she says, that's my injury, and 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:07.160 therefore I want a court to order the construction to stop. 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:11.360 The lower court, the trial court said yes, that's enough, 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:14.640 and the court appeals the DC Circus said yes, that's enough. 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:17.680 This is now before the US Supreme Court. We we're 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:20.720 rolling on, I think very soon. I think what the 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:24.000 Court's likely to say is Judge Nami Rouse said in 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:28.240 her descent, there's no injury here that merely not like him. 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:30.280 Something looks like is not a to goit of federal court. 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:34.680 So he's going with part one and going with the 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:38.000 standing out. James Phillips again, I'm gonna ask you the 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:41.040 same question, what will the court do and what should 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:41.360 it do? 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:47.920 I think going with standing is the most likely scenario 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:49.760 for the court because then they don't have to get 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:51.800 into the merits, which you know, can be a little 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:55.480 bit messier, and so it's it's an easy way to 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:57.640 get out that this is, you know what sometimes in 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:02.480 the establishment clause context is called offender observer status, where 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.760 someone's offended because maybe there's a cross on Probok property 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:10.560 and it's never been applied outside of the establishment context, 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:13.560 and even there it's on shaky ground. Justice cor Such 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:16.560 and Justice Thomas wrote about this a few years ago. 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:21.080 So I think standing and provides an easy avenue for 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:24.760 the court to get rid of this case. I think 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:29.240 if they get to the merits, the President probably still 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:32.479 wins but I think one thing that's going to be 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:34.839 going on in the back of the court's mind is 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:38.160 there's a concept in the law called latches, which is 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:42.120 when you sit on your hands too long before bringing suit, 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:45.200 that sometimes you can lose your ability to bring suit. 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:48.120 And there was a delay in this case. 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:52.719 The plaintiffs waited, i think four months after he announced 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:54.279 he was going to do this to bring suit, and 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:58.760 by that time the oldest wing had already been demolished. 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:03.080 So and then they didn't even bring the right claims. 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:05.400 The district Court had to dismiss their complaint. It wasn't 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:08.839 until March first that they actually brought the statutory claims 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:12.599 that they have prevailed on below here. So I think 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:15.000 that's going to be going on in the court's mind 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:17.919 of you know, we've got sixty five percent of this 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:19.200 done at this point. 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:20.360 Maybe this is a. 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:23.719 Different case if you bring suit, you know, in July 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:26.480 of twenty twenty five. But I think that's going to 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:29.320 matter to the court because a stay or an injunction 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:33.160 is the court's equitable powers where they can kind of balance, 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:37.160 you know, the equities as they say. So again I 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:39.800 agree that Josh is right here. I think standing is 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:43.080 the most likely way that they go to find standing 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:48.000 here would really kind of alter standing doctrine significantly. 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:50.839 All right, let me play Devil's advocate for a moment, 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:53.640 or at least push us forward to the national security 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:57.479 issue here, and I should declare Judge Dick Learly on 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:00.800 the Senior District Court, judge who made the initial ruling 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:04.680 granting the initial stay, is a longtime friend and co 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:07.760 counsel of mine. He's a fine judge. I think he's 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:11.839 thrown a spanner here. But he was also Dick Cheney's 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:14.960 chief council in Iran contry. He's got a long long 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:18.839 history of public service in Washington, DC. Very smart and 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:22.680 good judge. That said, every judge throws a spanner if 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:27.200 we get past standing, Josh, and we find another plaintiff, 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:30.840 someone who can allege that they were injured by this, 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:34.240 and they can actually pass the usual standing. What say 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:38.159 you about the president's control over the executive mansion and 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:42.800 especially those parts about which the country got a peak 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:46.720 in the declaration of the Army's head of the Army 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:49.880 Corps Engineer As to what is in the basement. People 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:52.080 kind of know it's in the basement, but they don't 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:54.320 really know what's in the basement. I'd been in the basement. 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:55.960 What do you think about that? 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:01.240 Well, Judge Leon respectfully screwed up here. He said that 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:04.320 President Trump is but a mere tenant of the White House. Well, 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:07.000 that would make Judge lee on the landlords of the tenant, 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:10.280 and that can't be right. The presence of the commander 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:13.360 in chief, the head executive branch and his home, the 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:16.560 most safe place in the United States has to be 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:22.800 the White House. And the President has submitted declarations from everyone, 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:26.000 the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Defense, the secred 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:29.200 Homeland Security, the director of the FBI, the. 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:30.360 Army, jointed chiefs of staff. 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:33.360 Everyone has put a declaration to the Supreme Court saying 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:36.080 this is essential for national security. 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:38.160 It's not just a ballroom. 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:43.840 There's a very large bunker under that structure that we 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:46.520 use for a hospital, a safe base in the ends 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:50.760 of a terrorist attack. There's a medical facility there as well. 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:54.880 And in fact, the roof of the ball roomobile a 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:57.160 drone port. I don't know what that was, but it's 0:07:57.200 --> 0:07:59.480 basically a place where drones can take off in land. 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:02.720 Look at other countries like Ukraine and Iran, the threat 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:07.280 of drones is serious there, Hypersonic missiles is serious. And 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:10.160 I think it gets really tricky when federal judges think 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:12.400 they know better on national security and they tell the 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:15.520 President you must stop construction. And I'd like to think 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:18.480 that Chief Justice Roberts and just Kavanaugh, who both worked 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:21.040 in the White House early in their career, would recognize 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:24.160 this simple fact that you can't have judges micromanaging how 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:26.640 the present manages his own security infrastructure. 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:30.080 Excellent, James Philips. I want to give you the last 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:32.120 word before we go to break. Don't go any anywhere 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:34.400 America and bring them back on the other side to 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:37.800 talk more national security stuff and this Supreme Court. James, 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:39.800 what do you think about the national security issue? 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:44.720 You know, the Supreme Court historically tends to defer to 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:48.440 the executive branch when there are questions of national security. 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:52.760 Not always, but I think it's unlikely that they're going 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:56.360 to engage in second guessing of what is necessary to 0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:59.120 make the White House secure and what is not. So 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:00.920 I think there's going to be a lot of deference 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:04.640 here to the President and other officials who have determined 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:06.119 that this is necessary. 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:10.600 Would there be an advantage, James in some dicta here, 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:13.760 even if they say, even if the Chief Justice says 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:17.319 and the majority agree with him, that the stay was 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:22.800 improvidently issued or the injunction was providently issued in the 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:26.200 stay of it is in place for some guidance to 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:30.240 other lower courts about messing around with national security facilities. 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:36.400 You know, dicta at the Supreme Court is law for 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:40.120 lower courts in a way, So there's always it's always helpful, 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:42.120 given the Court doesn't take a lot of cases every 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:47.040 year to provide guidance whether or not. You know, sometimes 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:51.280 Chief Justice Roberts takes a more minimalist approach. It's not 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:53.680 always the case, and so he may want to just 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:57.439 decide this issue and save the broader issue of national 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:00.840 security for another day. But it's possible that there could 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:04.720 be some asides here that reached this issue more broadly 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:07.280 and kind of you know, there's been a lot of 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:10.200 activity by the lower courts with things that the President 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:12.960 has done in this term, and it's possible that the 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:15.880 Court is starting to get a little impatient with some 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:19.080 of that. So we may see if they, you know, 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:21.840 try to get the lower course to fall a little 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:23.960 bit more in line with this case or they just, 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:25.880 you know, focus just on the issue. 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:29.400 I'm going to come back with Professors Blackman and Phillips, because, 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:33.320 as Professor Blackman noted, the Chief Justice spent a couple 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:36.880 of years in the White House Council's office. He knows 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:41.239 the White House Compound completely well as does Justice Kavanaugh. 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:44.800 Can I think maybe the rest of the district courts 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:48.120 going off on prolicts and detours this year may also 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:50.440 figure in this Tomorrow's stay tuned and if you're on 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:53.760 c SPAN, What's Happened? You've got the QT Show, Stay 0:10:53.760 --> 0:11:06.079 with it. Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewett and the 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:09.400 special Welcome to our Sea Span audience on c SPAN two, 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:13.040 watching this week due to a special arrangement with the 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:15.360 Salem News Channel, and we're very glad to have sea 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:17.080 Span along for a ride for a week in the 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:21.120 August break when Congress has gone back doing their jobs 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:23.440 in their district. I'm joined at the beginning of this 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:27.080 hour by Professor Josh Blackman of South Texas School of Law, 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:30.240 author along with Randy Barnett. If I think the finest 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.720 casebook about to become its fifth edition, Cases of Materials 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:36.480 on constitutional law, I hope that's on time, Josh, is 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:37.880 that on time? Am I going to have it? 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:39.359 It would be out in December? 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:43.240 All right? For jan you'll be ready double checking. And 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:46.000 James Phillips is teaching more courses than I can count 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:50.760 at Saint Thomas University at Miami Gardens in Florida. Josh, 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:53.199 I'm gonna go back and stipulate we find a plaintiff 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:57.200 with standing and stipulate the wave latches. Let's say a 0:11:57.280 --> 0:11:59.280 contractor he didn't have a chance to bid, or a 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:03.120 contractor upscrewed, they that they were their bid wasn't accepted. 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:07.040 And get to the national security issue. What can the 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:10.080 chief Justice take judicial notice of as well as the 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:12.960 other justice as it goes to the entire court when 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:16.200 it comes to threats that are evolving rapidly on the matrix. 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:20.679 Well, keep in mind President schump has had how many 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:22.600 assassination tempts I've actually lost count. 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:23.680 They're at least four. 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:25.480 They tried to shoot them at Butler, they. 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:27.280 Tried to shooting at the golf course, they tried to 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:29.320 come with the correspondent center, they tried to fire a 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:31.679 shoulder fell and missile of him and Iran. And in Turkey, 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:36.120 I mean, at some point, I think the court can. 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:38.200 Say that the judiciary. 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:42.160 Lacks the cognizance, lacks the knowledge over the threat matrix 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:45.360 facing the president, and that as perhaps a matter of 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:46.559 balancing the equities. 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:48.000 Right, let's just weigh it out. 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:51.880 Some woman, some contractor claims that they got you know, 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:53.520 screwed in a bid. 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:54.880 Okay, well that's a problem. 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:58.160 You can remedy that with monetary damages. Perhaps another side, 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:00.840 the leader of the free world might be killed by 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:01.640 a droom strike. 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:04.160 This one doesn't. 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:07.800 Strike me as very difficult, especially given the fact, as 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:10.960 James mentioned, the building is more than halfway done and 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:13.520 they're working was twenty hours a day, six days a 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:17.240 week to construct this thing as a natural security infrastructure. 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:19.840 So I could even see the Chief Justice just sitting 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:21.679 on this case for a few months and okay, well, 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:25.160 now there's eighty five percent done. Given the amount of workdone, 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:26.880 there's nothing really press to do, and they just deny 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:30.280 the or they grant the government's emergency stay, and then 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:31.720 you know, when the case comes back to the court 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:33.839 in a year or so in the normal process, they 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:37.040 just deny it because the thing's built. It's done, right, 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:39.280 You're not going to demolish a structure at the White 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:40.560 House because the judge tells you to. 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:44.480 So, James, I'm going to ask you for the limiting principle. 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:47.079 I think Josh is right. That's my position. I think 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:50.920 it's the president's position and common sense national security position. 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:55.800 What's the limiting principle? Because opponents of this will say, well, 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:57.960 I mean, do this to the White House, Maybe he 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:00.400 can do it to the Department of Energy, and maybe 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:02.600 he can do it anywhere he wants in the United 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:05.120 States that he declares a national security site. What's the 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:05.960 limiting principle? 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:12.160 Well, the statutes that issue here do give the president 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:16.040 authority to make alterations or improvements to the White House 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:19.880 as well as any buildings on national parks, which includes 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:23.760 the President's Park. So I think that would limit him 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:27.800 to be able to redo any building owned by the 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:31.280 federal government anywhere in the country or the world. So 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:33.840 I think the statute is going to provide a limiting 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:39.600 principle here, and you know the degree of what the 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:42.640 president can do. The court, if it gets to the merits, 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:46.240 will probably also look at that language. So an alteration 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:49.200 or improvement is one thing. Raising the White House and 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:54.000 starting over with, say, you know, an Egyptian Pyramids style 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:58.000 monument or something probably doesn't fit within the meaning of 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:01.800 alteration and improvement. So I guess is that they'll rely 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:04.440 on the statutory language to find some of that limitation. 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:07.760 Back to you, John, I'm not sure I want to 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:11.560 go down that road, because when the Constitution was ratified, 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:15.520 there was no National Park Service. There was an executive branch, 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:18.440 and I think implied in that, and the commander in 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:21.720 chief is a lot of authority to control the structure 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:24.920 of his home, his offices, and the national security facilities 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:28.600 in the United States, what were they operating under where 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:31.280 there's always congressional statute. He couldn't build anything or do 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:33.120 anything until the Congress authorized it. 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:36.920 Yeah, I mean there's two sides of that. 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:40.280 First off, the president's money, right, the president can't spend 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:43.480 money less as an appropriation, but Congress is appropriate a 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:45.400 lot of money, and in this case he's actually saw 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:48.800 private donations from donors to help fund this work. The 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:52.360 second issues are the constitutional authority. The president has the 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:55.200 power of self defense right even. 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:56.560 Before there's a secret service. 0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:59.200 I think was made following the Civil War of memory service, 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:02.480 or at least in the eighteen hundreds, there wasn't really 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:05.960 a form of protection for the president, but it was 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:08.600 always interested that there needs to be security for the president, 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:10.680 there actually be some sort of guard with him. 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:15.240 And this just doesn't strike me as beyond the pale. 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:20.040 Historically, President Roosevelt tore up much of the East Wing himself. 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:20.560 He built it. 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:24.000 President Truman constructed this massive balcony. Jerry Ford built the 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:26.960 swimming pool. You know, we'd say the Rose Garden without 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:30.920 Jackie Oh's Jackie Jackie Kennedy's sort of vanity project at 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:34.440 the time. There have been lots of alterations to the 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:37.120 President's mansion since the time of John Adams moving in, 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:41.760 and I think that we're sort of we're losing the 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:44.720 thread when we have federal judges with the spectators leon 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:47.960 basically dictating to the present how he should keep himself safe. 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:52.840 I do think that we've really gone a drift. If 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:54.400 this is the sort of litigation in the Supreme Court 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:56.040 has to decide. There are lots of the hard case 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.520 of the course to decide. This one doesn't strike me 0:16:58.560 --> 0:16:59.520 as terribly difficult. 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:01.800 All right, last question, I want to get both your 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.920 opinions on this. James Phillips. Has the Supreme Court been 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:08.359 pro Trump anti Trump? John Roberts in the bag firm 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:11.439 are always hostile to him, and ditto the sixth Justice 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:14.800 originalist conservative majority. 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:16.160 They're neither. 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:20.240 You know, they've ruled honest behalf in some things against 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:24.480 him and others. I think they're showing their judicial independence, 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:27.800 even some of those who had been nominated by him. 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:31.840 So I haven't seen this court as either pro or 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:32.520 anti Trump. 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:37.399 Josh Blackman, I agree with James. 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:39.040 We don't have a pro or anti Trump court. 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:41.119 But it's a sort of striking thing that the votes 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:42.840 most likely for Trump are from going he did to 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:45.879 a point, just as Clarence Thomas the Semlito are the 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:49.720 most strong votes for Trump, Chief Justice Roberts and the 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:53.600 less present Justice Barrett is most voting anti Trump. I 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:55.600 think they all sort of see the law and sort 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:58.680 of legal politics in different lenses. But I don't think 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:00.840 it's their part is an any sort of sense of 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:02.960 right left. Think they just view the role of judicia 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:03.720 a little bit differently. 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:07.080 I think you are both right on that. Josh Blackman 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:10.160 from South Texas University School of Law. James Phillips from 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:13.160 Toom Saint Thomas University s GOO of LO on Miami Garden, Florida. 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:15.680 Thank you both for joining me the Smart Guy's two 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:19.280 point zero on a special August emergency session. Normally, and 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:21.640 we only do this when they are big decisions coming down, 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:25.280 not on a on a DC Circuit Court opinion that's 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:28.639 been appealed on an emergency basis to the Supreme Court. 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:33.840 Thank you, professors. Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewittt, joined 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:37.920 by James Lylex who's a humorist extraordinaire National Review writer 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:42.080 of course, a columnists for Substack at James Lilacs dot 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:45.000 substack dot com. You can follow him on Exit Lilyx 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:48.600 and go to his website James Lylyx dot com. James, 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:53.080 before there was Fox, before there was actually the same 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:56.320 news channel. Before there was Fox, and before there was CNN, 0:18:57.080 --> 0:18:59.640 there was this long period of time when your choices 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:03.720 were just the Big three networks or c SPAN. And 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:06.719 I think I saw my grandfather, who was born in 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:10.119 the nineteenth century and lived well into the twentieth watch 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:13.520 c SPAN more than any other network. What do you 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:16.280 think of c SPAN. I think it's an American treasure. 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:21.119 It absolutely is. It's the Weather Channel for thinking people. 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:23.560 Well, some folks was just turned on the Weather channel 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:26.320 with just watch you know, there's a cold front coming in. 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:28.240 But se SPAN, you could always be depended upon that 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:31.240 be some people talking about some issue that maybe wasn't 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:33.720 paramount on everybody's mind at the day. 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:34.240 But mattered. 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:37.680 And so yes, if you take the entirety of sea 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:40.800 SPAN's coverage, and I'm sure that somebody's got it digitize, 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:44.439 you have a record of American thought that's extraordinary and 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:46.960 unlike anything that we've had before. So it's not that 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:50.359 it's flashy and special and fantastic and exciting. It's just 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:54.520 the throat and the bloodstream of American politics and culture. 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:58.000 So good for them. Do you remember how Newt Gangridge 0:19:58.040 --> 0:19:59.600 revolutionized se span? 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:06.520 Not exactly, no, but I'm sure that he used it 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:10.520 to his advantage to get the ideas across because you're right, 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:12.960 there were just the networks and the magazines, and you 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:15.320 had your fight your way past the gatekeepers, and an 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:18.240 unmediated thing that you could just broadcast lives to people was. 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:20.840 Made all the different. Well, they had revise an extended 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:24.760 remarks period every day after the official business session closed, 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:27.600 and c SPAN carried that, so it would go down 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:32.359 there and give stem winders. Now they're limited to five minutes, 0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:35.359 I believe to revise it. And he actually changed minds 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:37.280 up until he won in nineteen ninety four. And I 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:40.600 think he just had unfiltered access to the American people 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:41.480 as fabulous. 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:46.280 Right, And if I recall correctly, the chamber was often empty, 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:48.520 but that didn't matter because the people he were speaking 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:50.640 to were not in the room, which she always had. 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:54.120 That's right. Now. From that, should we have an opinion 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:57.959 on the Supreme Court proceedings being televised against which I 0:20:58.000 --> 0:20:59.040 am firmly. 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:03.399