1 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Jerry Boyer. Welcome to this edition of Meeting 2 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: of Minds podcast. I've been looking forward to this one 3 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: for some time. My guest back again is Rick Graber. 4 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 1: He's the CEO of the Bradley Foundation, a former ambassador 5 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: to the Czech Republic, which I think makes him uniquely 6 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: qualified to understand illiberalism, not from the Czech Republic, but 7 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: from some of their neighbors, and the crisis we have 8 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 1: in the world today as it's turning away, as even 9 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 1: many on the right are turning away from classical liberalism, 10 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 1: and this is an important moment in history and I'm 11 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: glad that we get to discuss it with Rick graeber Rick, 12 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:44,520 Speaker 1: welcome back. 13 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Jerry, great to be with you. 14 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: Well, this is something we've talked about offline, but it 15 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: seems like the battle for freedom is never over, and 16 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: never over. Even on the right. We seem to be 17 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: moving away from the historic roots of the country, which 18 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: is a specific kind of conservatism, classical liberalism as distinguished 19 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: I would say, from European blood and soil conservatism. As 20 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: far as I can tell, you spent your life fighting 21 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: for the constitutional order. And I've asked you on the 22 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,919 Speaker 1: show to just give that broad view to us about 23 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: kind of the moment that we're in history right now. 24 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:28,839 Speaker 2: I mean, these are difficult times, there's no question about that, Jerry. 25 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 2: There are things that have made our country exceptional over time, 26 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 2: things like a civil society, things are embrace of capitalism 27 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 2: and free markets, things like our constitutional order, federalism, separation 28 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 2: of powers, individual liberties, freedom of speech, freed of religion. 29 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 2: And there are strains on all of that right now, 30 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 2: and that's troubling. I'm always going to be optimistic and 31 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 2: say somehow, some way we will overcome, but we're in 32 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 2: a tough patch right now, no question. 33 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 1: Why do you think that's happening? And why do you 34 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: think it's happening now? 35 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 2: Part of it has been the politics of the time. 36 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 2: I guess everyone says this is the most divided we've 37 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 2: ever been, but boy, it sure seems like certainly seems 38 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 2: like we are more divided as a country than we 39 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 2: were when I served under the George W. Bush administration. 40 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 2: And you know, those were pretty acrimonious times too, but 41 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 2: for whatever reason, it seems to have ratcheted up. As 42 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 2: conservatives there are there are debates on the right about 43 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 2: things that used to be fundamental and you know, let's 44 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 2: go to free markets. There there's a raging debate on 45 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 2: what's the appropriate role of government, what's the appropriate responsibility 46 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 2: of all of us as citizens, and there's disagreement on that. 47 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 2: There's no question at all. I worked for the Bradley Foundation. 48 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 2: As you mentioned, there's no doubt about where lyned in. 49 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 2: Harry Bradley, the two brothers that did the hard work 50 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 2: that ultimately resulted in the Bradley Foundation came down. They 51 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 2: were limited government, free market guys who build a business 52 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 2: in Milwaukee and along the way stumbled and almost failed 53 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 2: multiple times before they succeeded wildly, and they would attribute 54 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 2: their success to that ability to get up off the 55 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 2: ground and do it again with limited government interference. I 56 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 2: don't think free market proponents have necessarily done a good 57 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 2: enough job talking about the benefits and the virtue of 58 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 2: capitalism and what it has done in this country and 59 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:10,119 Speaker 2: the opportunity that it has created for so many millions 60 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 2: of people. We watched just this week in New York 61 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 2: the election of a socialist. I mean, my goodness, what 62 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:27,720 Speaker 2: what can people be thinking? And to embrace the things 63 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 2: that he was espousing in his campaign, government run grocery stores, 64 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 2: free everything, free buses, free childcare. Nothing's free, and it's 65 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 2: never worked. Yet there's a popularity there, and there's a 66 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 2: popularity within certain segments of our society that we have 67 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 2: to fight back against. We've got work to. 68 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 1: Do, yeah, we really do. And it seems to be 69 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: not just something on the left. Although I think the 70 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 1: socialist impulse is stronger in the American life than it 71 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: is in the American right. I suppose I'm more worried 72 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: about error in my family than I am in somebody 73 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:16,679 Speaker 1: else's family, right, So, I mean, the Democrats have been 74 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: on the left, you know, for some time, although Bill 75 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:23,799 Speaker 1: Clinton obviously is centrist. But you know, Bernie almost became 76 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: the nominee, right, yes, flat out, not even a registered 77 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: Democrat or registered socialist. And we have majorities of millennials, 78 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: mostly a generation more tuned to the left, who seems 79 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: to embrace socialism. So I wonder. 80 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 2: Often, don't you think, don't you think that? You know, 81 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 2: as government has grown and has filled voids, we've seen 82 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 2: a decline in our civil society, which has been one 83 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 2: of the great strengths of this country. You know, and 84 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 2: that's not easy to rebuild or replace. But I think 85 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 2: it's I think it's there. We're seeming declining marriage rates 86 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 2: and church attendance go down, and private voluntary organizations like 87 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 2: rotary clubs struggling to maintain numbers and membership. And that's 88 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 2: what has made this country so special is the ability 89 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 2: to solve problems without government. 90 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: Yes, Topeville made the observation that in a situation in 91 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: which Europeans would make an appeal to the king, Americans 92 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: automatically create some kind of private association to solve the problem. 93 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: We used to not even think about asking government for help. 94 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: Something would happen and we would look to a neighbor, 95 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: a friend, a family member, a church member and say, well, 96 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: what are we going to do about this? 97 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 2: Right right now? It's still going on. I mean, it's 98 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 2: still going on in every community in this country. I mean, 99 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 2: we've about thirty percent of our grants year stay local, 100 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 2: and we fund dozens and dozens and dozens of often 101 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 2: small organizations that are helping kids coming out of the 102 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 2: juvenile justice system or getting people's lives back on track, 103 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 2: you know, instilling the dignity that comes from working every 104 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 2: day and the people that are leading those organizations you 105 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 2: never read about. They're never in the newspaper, they're never 106 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 2: on TV. You just don't see them. But they're heroes 107 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 2: and they are making a difference. And it's not government 108 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 2: programs that are getting people's lives back in order. It's 109 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 2: it's these unsung heroes here in Milwaukee and everywhere across 110 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 2: the country doing that kind of work. And it does 111 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 2: exist and it's happening. There's just not enough of it. 112 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: There is the little platoons. I think Edmund Burk. 113 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 2: The little platoons, and that's where philanthropy is so important. Yes, 114 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 2: and that's where America is unique. I mean, I've had 115 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 2: the chance to live and work all over the world 116 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 2: and there's nothing like it. When it comes to the 117 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,119 Speaker 2: generosity of the American people to give of their time, 118 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:10,679 Speaker 2: to give up their resources, it's unique. 119 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: And that's one of the things I love about the 120 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: Bradley Foundation. Probably out of all the conservative foundations, you 121 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: are the most focused on the little platoons, the laboratories 122 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: of democracy, the experiments that are coming from the bottom 123 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: up which will yield fruit over decades, but don't have 124 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: the excitement of the current battle line in the culture 125 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: War in Washington. 126 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 2: Yes. Yes, and that's why what's going on outside of 127 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 2: the Beltway is so important. And it's still happening. It's 128 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 2: happening here in Milwaukee, it's happening everywhere, and we can't 129 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 2: ignore that progress even during these times where it's tough. 130 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: It seems to me that to some degree the world 131 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: of thought leadership liberal. But I guess again, I'm a 132 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 1: little bit more focused on my own conservative tribe or 133 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: the other part of my conservative tribe. Seem they seem 134 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: to be acting as though we tried free market we 135 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:15,239 Speaker 1: tried free market conservatism, we tried the post war consensus, 136 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: we tried the liberal order, and you know, it didn't work. 137 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,439 Speaker 1: We understand the arguments for it, but we have newer, 138 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: better arguments. And yet when I read say American Compass, 139 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,719 Speaker 1: or you know, some of these other they make, they 140 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: make arguments that indicate to me that they they've never 141 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: read any Hiek, they've never read any Freedmen, they haven't 142 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 1: even read Soul. They haven't tried our arguments. They haven't 143 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 1: they never learned them. It's like sort of like a 144 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: new generation that came up that is just trying like 145 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: a new product launch. That's and it's based essentially. I mean, 146 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 1: I understand maybe we're wrong, maybe we free market people 147 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 1: are wrong. But the people who are making the arguments 148 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: against us, they're not making their case. They are making elementary, 149 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: old left wing arguments repackaged this conservatism. 150 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 2: In fact, it has worked. It's been remarkably successful, and 151 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 2: the standard of living of people today compared to the 152 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 2: past is remarkably better. We may not have been able, 153 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 2: we may have been unsuccessful so far in telling that 154 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 2: story effectively, but you know this notion that you know, 155 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 2: through industrial policy, through through a more statist approach to 156 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 2: solving problems, that we can make progress, that we and 157 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,719 Speaker 2: the righteous know better than the left, and we can 158 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 2: do it better than them. It's just it's been proven wrong. 159 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 2: When you pick winners, when you pick losers, it doesn't work. 160 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 2: It hasn't worked. But there is that strain of thought, 161 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 2: there's no question, and it's pretty rampant in today's politics. 162 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: So the hy ex fatal conceit the idea that highly 163 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:05,439 Speaker 1: intelligent people can manage not just their lives, but everyone's lives. 164 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: That seems to be universal among authoritarians. They just think 165 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: the other people weren't smart enough to run an economy, 166 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 1: but we are. 167 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, that I think is the premise. So one 168 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,319 Speaker 2: specific now now, I mean, now, some of these barriers, 169 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 2: we have made progress. You know, when you talk about 170 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 2: what are barriers to markets, to free enterprise, it has 171 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:39,599 Speaker 2: been things like DEI diversity, equity inclusion and ESG and 172 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 2: these other acronyms, and some on our side, many on 173 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 2: our side, have pushed back very effectively on that. And 174 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 2: there's no doubt that there has been progress made in 175 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 2: the last five years, maybe less than that last three years. 176 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 2: We have made enormous progress us on giving parents a 177 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,079 Speaker 2: choice when it comes to their kids education, another barrier 178 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 2: to success and to opportunity that we've made progress on. 179 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 2: States all over the country are expanding their choice opportunities, 180 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 2: opportunities that started back in the nineteen eighties right here 181 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 2: in Milwaukee. So you know, all is not bad. No, 182 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:34,079 Speaker 2: there has been progress, But we're in the midst of 183 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 2: a great debate, and let's hope that our side can 184 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 2: win this battle of ideas, because ultimately our side has 185 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 2: been proven right and will continue to be proven right. 186 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: Yes, and I think there really is one thing that 187 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,199 Speaker 1: we have an advantage over the other side, can almost 188 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: always tell a better story facts precisely facts, right, or 189 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: even going back to the Latin fucked on that, which 190 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: is that like reality is on side. I mean, they're 191 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:07,719 Speaker 1: always going to be. Socialism is always going to be 192 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 1: able to tell a better story. And my my friend 193 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: the late Michael Novak used to say that socialism convinced 194 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: us to compare its dream to capitalism's reality. But when 195 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:23,719 Speaker 1: we compare socialism's reality the capitalism's reality, it's a it's 196 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: a knockout. But that's not the way it works. They 197 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: tell us, they tell us story, and all we have 198 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: is the reality of the failure of their system. 199 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 2: Well, I guess it sounds good to say, uh, you know, 200 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 2: we're going to give your free bus rides and free 201 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 2: childcare without ever talking about the fact that it's not free, 202 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 2: that somebody's got to pay for that. 203 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: So, yeah, you mentioned the pushback against ESG and DEI 204 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: and I've seen the same thing. It's succeeding. I mean, 205 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 1: so I was at a conference recently and there was 206 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: a conservative thought leader, a good gut, really great guy. Okay, 207 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: but he talked about some of these corporations pushing back 208 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: against Mike Pence on Religious Freedom Restoration Act, and that 209 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: has fed into a narrative of corporations are the enemy. 210 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: Therefore we need to use now that we conservatives have power, 211 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: we need to use power to fight back against these corporations. 212 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about the conference that we were at together, 213 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: by the way. I'm talking about a different conference. And 214 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: I thought, and I talked to this gentleman afterwards, you 215 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: need some more up to date information. We just met 216 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: with Salesforce this week and they're dropping out of the 217 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: Southern Poverty Law Center and they're moving away, and their 218 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: CEO just said something about trying to move to the center. 219 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: So if the premise was that that moment of peak 220 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: woke in corporations meant that corporations were now on the 221 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: permanent enemies list so much that we needed to move 222 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: away from the free market, well you thought, leaders need 223 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: to get up with current headlines because these companies. Look, 224 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: the battle's not over, but these companies are really trying 225 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: to move to center. I see it on a daily 226 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: basis because I'm talking. I'm talking to them, not talking 227 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: about them. 228 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 2: They are And I mean, think about it, what what 229 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 2: are corporations. What are CEOs doing getting into the middle 230 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 2: of all this. Their job is to to run their 231 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 2: company and make profits and deliver a return to their shareholders, period, right, 232 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 2: That's it. That is their fiduciary duty. And that got 233 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 2: lost there for a while, and particularly in some large 234 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 2: publicly traded companies. And you know, good for those that 235 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 2: push back, and the Bradley Foundation funded some outstanding organizations 236 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 2: in that regard, and there's been some great work done 237 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 2: in the States among the State Treasurers State Financial Officers Group, 238 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 2: outstanding organization that really has moved the needle unbelievably. 239 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: So who I mean, who knew that the real battle, 240 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: like the turning of the battle would be the worker 241 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: bee positions, auditor general, treasurer, comtroller, revenue commissioner. Right, But 242 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: they noticed the ESG thing because ESG people started to 243 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: give ESG scores to their states, and then you helped 244 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: fund and then Derrek Rifle's entrepreneurially helped lead and they 245 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: were that first. They were the minute men against ESG 246 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: and DEI and nobody counted on that. The Black Rock 247 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: people or whatever, they did not count on that. And 248 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: that's I think that that's where it was stopped right there. 249 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 2: Enormous leverage. It turns out that those state officials have 250 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 2: over state pensions and things of that sort. And kudos 251 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 2: to them that they made a difference, and they made 252 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 2: a difference quickly, and they cantinue to do great work. 253 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: And I think you haven't just funded SFLF. I think 254 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 1: probably justin Danoff's. 255 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 2: Work, right, justin dan Hoff's work. 256 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: Yes, my mentor by the way, he taught me this stuff, 257 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,880 Speaker 1: so our business. 258 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, he fought a lonely fight there for a lot 259 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 2: of years. For a long period of time, he was 260 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 2: really the only one out there pushing back against the 261 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,640 Speaker 2: shareholder resolutions that all of us see on the proxy 262 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 2: statements we get in the mail all the time with 263 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 2: shareholder questions about one political uh topic after another. And 264 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 2: he took the other side, fought back, had success. He did, 265 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 2: he did, and that movement has grown. 266 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:53,120 Speaker 1: And he was and generously taught others. Yes, and that 267 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: movement really has grown and is becoming the it's on 268 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,159 Speaker 1: its way maybe to becoming the new mainstream in the 269 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 1: foxy world. So I hadn't until you just mentioned that, 270 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: I hadn't thought about that that that connection. So see 271 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 1: that's a civil society solution, though, isn't it Shareholders, they're owners, 272 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: it's private property. Shareholders have this right to vote, and 273 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 1: so they use civil society rather than government coercion. 274 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 2: Absolutely. Absolutely, So let's. 275 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:25,920 Speaker 1: Talk about in this resurgent nationalism, right, authoritarianism tends to 276 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 1: go with nationalism, tends to go with blood and soil 277 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:33,120 Speaker 1: conservatism and blood and soil seems to be a lot 278 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: more focused on blood than soil. And we're seeing a 279 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: resurgence of focuses on ethnicity of you know, essentially a 280 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: resurgence of the idea that propositional America is a bad idea, 281 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 1: that really we need to be focusing on ethnicity, ethnicity 282 00:18:55,720 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 1: questions to essentially imitate sort of the racial identity thinking 283 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 1: that we've seen on the left with a conservative version 284 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: of that, which is tied up with anti semitism, it's 285 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: tied up with other forms of ethnic prejudice. And you 286 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:15,959 Speaker 1: and I've been talking about this for a few years, 287 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: and I felt a little bit lonely except when I 288 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: talked to you, because it seemed like most conservative leaders 289 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: weren't seeing that threat. They were thinking only the left 290 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: is anti Semitic, there's nothing like that on the right, 291 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: and now it is almost fully metastasized. 292 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 2: In my opinion, Well, it's been in the news. We've heard, 293 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 2: we've heard about Nick Fuentes, We've heard about things that 294 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 2: he has said. It's unacceptable, end of story. As my 295 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,679 Speaker 2: colleague on the Bradley Foundation board, Robbie George so eloquently wrote, 296 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 2: just in recent days, there is no place our movement 297 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 2: for uh racists, bigots, anti Semites, no tolerance of that period. 298 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 2: And and to suggest otherwise, in my view, is wrong. 299 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 2: There are enemies on the right and they're not welcome period. 300 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 2: To me, this is not complicated. 301 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,199 Speaker 1: Yes it is. To you, it isn't, and to me 302 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: it isn't. But neither of us live by clicks, and 303 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: the political economy of social media. Influencer lives by clicks, 304 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: and it's not clear to me that their business model 305 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 1: works if they alienate the neo Nazis, the anti Semites, 306 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: the you know, the the other folks, the other liberals. 307 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: And I've noticed this, there's a pretty a pretty close 308 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: correlation between someone's tolerance, so in social media, they're tolerance 309 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: for neo Nazi ideology and whether they have a subscribe 310 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 1: button at the top of their feed, because if you 311 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: super serve that group, you can pick up another two 312 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,400 Speaker 1: or three, say one million followers, and you know, maybe 313 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: you can eke out a living if you don't kick 314 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: out the Nazis. And I mean, I mean that's just 315 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 1: to me, the political economy of it. If someone doesn't 316 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: have the moral compass, they're not going to stand up 317 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:31,439 Speaker 1: to that. 318 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 2: Let's stick to our core beliefs and stay true to 319 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 2: our core beliefs strong civil society, our constitutional order, our 320 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 2: belief in markets, our belief in capitalism, our belief and 321 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 2: informs citizenry and the responsibility that we all have as citizens. 322 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 2: Let's tell that story, and let's tell it effectively, and 323 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 2: at the end of the day, if we do that, 324 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:00,360 Speaker 2: we will win this battle of ideas. 325 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: Because truth is in the end more powerful. It reasserts itself, 326 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: whether you call it natural law, you know, general revelation, 327 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: creation order. Do you know the Kipling poem the Gods 328 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 1: of the copy book headings? Are you familiar with that one? 329 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 2: Tell me, I'll send it to you. 330 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: You're gonna love it, Okay, But it's just a wonderful 331 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: poem about the gods of the marketplace, which doesn't actually 332 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: mean free market, It means like the ideologies that come 333 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 1: along and how in the end reality reasserts itself. Just 334 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,159 Speaker 1: the question is how much pain do we need to go? 335 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: How much stagflation does this generation need to go? You 336 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 1: and I went through the seventies. We had a stagflationary episode, 337 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: and neither the Democrats nor the Republicans for a while 338 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: knew what to do with that. I mean, Nixon didn't 339 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: know how to deal with it, and you know, neither 340 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: did the Democrats. But Reagan, Kemp knew how to deal 341 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,199 Speaker 1: with it, and so we learned the painful lessons. So 342 00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 1: then we have this other stagflationary episode under you know, 343 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: under Obama and really more under Biden. And then the president, 344 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: the new president Trump comes along and you know, imposes 345 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: tariffs which are not going to help with stagflation. So 346 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,199 Speaker 1: we're reallyve I mean, the economy is not growing as 347 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:17,919 Speaker 1: quickly as it can, so we're still a little bit 348 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:22,360 Speaker 1: in that stagflationary episode. So essentially we have the blessing 349 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: of the pain of bad ideas. And I'm not going 350 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 1: to say that the Trump ideas are as bad as 351 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 1: the Biden ideas of bad ideas and the consequences of them. 352 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:32,679 Speaker 1: So we learn from that. 353 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 2: Let's let's work on things that we know succeed and 354 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 2: work reduce regulation, increase opportunity for entrepreneurs. Uh, less regulation. 355 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 2: Great job on closing up the border. Let's let's let's 356 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 2: return to a rule of law h to the extent 357 00:23:58,320 --> 00:23:59,919 Speaker 2: we can. I mean, that's another area that we have 358 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 2: touched on today. So many of our judges view themselves 359 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 2: as many legislators, where they go way beyond, too far 360 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 2: beyond what their responsibility is, and that is to interpret 361 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 2: the law and to apply it to the facts of 362 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 2: a particular case, but not to legislate, not to be 363 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 2: another branch of government in effect, because that erodes trust. 364 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 2: If you can't trust the rule of law, you can't 365 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:42,159 Speaker 2: trust that a judge is operating under those constraints and 366 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 2: not simply trying to impose his or her own agenda, 367 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 2: then that erodes trust and institutions, and that erods trust 368 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 2: in government. And too much of that happens. So rule 369 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 2: of law is a key component to all of this 370 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 2: that we're trying to do. Capitalism, it's it's rule of law. 371 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,959 Speaker 2: It's a strong civil society. All of that. If it's working, 372 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 2: not perfect, but produces incredible results, an incredible opportunity for 373 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 2: more people. Won't all be equal, it'll be a little messy, 374 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,160 Speaker 2: but it's the best system that's ever been created, and 375 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 2: it is truly why this is an exceptional country. 376 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: I feel as though rule of law is working reasonably 377 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: well at the federal Supreme Court level. 378 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 2: And I agree with them. 379 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: I agree with so the problem seems to be more 380 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: weaponization of law at a local level and maybe to 381 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: some degree at the appellate court. Do you see it 382 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: that way? Y, Yeah, yes, I. 383 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 2: Think that's true, and I think it's beyond federal judges. 384 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 2: I think it's state in local judges too. To some extent, 385 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 2: it's a weaponization or really is trying to reach a 386 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 2: conclusion regardless of what the facts of the law might say. 387 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 2: And you know, you can interpret words to mean anything, 388 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:14,160 Speaker 2: I guess, but that again, it is not the role 389 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 2: of a judge to make policy. No, and it erodes 390 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 2: the separation of powers. I mean, there's just so much 391 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 2: that goes wrong with that. And again, it's one of 392 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 2: the foundational reasons in this country why things have worked 393 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 2: for as long as they had. 394 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: And it breeds contempt for the law. 395 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:38,640 Speaker 2: Yes it does, and people get very cynical. It doesn't 396 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 2: matter what the law is. That's not right, that's not good, 397 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 2: that's not healthy. 398 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 1: So it throws acid on our institutions, and once dissolved, 399 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: they are not easily reconstructed. 400 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 2: Correct. 401 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: And I think you made a point earlier in this 402 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: interview about civil society. I feel a little bit like 403 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: we're in the season right now in Pittsburgh where we're 404 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: starting to get frost overnight. So I've got my plants 405 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: out there and some of them are in pots, and 406 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 1: if I get a little frost, we're going to be okay. 407 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 1: But if I get a freeze before I bring them in, 408 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: they're going to die, right, And once they're dead, you 409 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: have to start over. 410 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 3: Right. 411 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: There's an organic nature to civil society. It's a seed 412 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: and a ground and then something coming up. You can't 413 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 1: say civil society, you know, let there be you know, 414 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: it's not like God would let there be light. Civil 415 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: society grows slowly, and once destroyed, when you have to 416 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 1: start over. That is that's that's the work of generations 417 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:36,479 Speaker 1: to rebuild that. 418 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 2: Oh, it is it is. You know, many of your 419 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 2: listeners are probably saying, well, what is this fuzzy thing 420 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:50,359 Speaker 2: called civil society. It's it's really pretty simple. It's it's families, 421 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 2: it's neighborhoods, it's churches, it's private voluntary organization. It's the 422 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 2: glue that holds this country together. That's what civil society is, 423 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 2: and that's what we've got to fight to preserve and strengthen. 424 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 2: And it was very clear that that's what Mind and 425 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 2: Harry Bradley cared a lot about. It's the reason that 426 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 2: thirty percent of our grants every year stay in Milwaukee 427 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 2: is because they cared about their hometown. They cared deeply 428 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 2: about their employees, which were, you know, thousands and thousands 429 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 2: and thousands at one point. And you know, while both 430 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 2: those brothers have been gone for many decades. Mine Bradley 431 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 2: died in nineteen forty two, Harry Bradley in nineteen sixty five, 432 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 2: and there's a lot we don't know about them. We 433 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,479 Speaker 2: do know some of those core things that they believed in, 434 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 2: and a strong community was one of them, and it 435 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 2: is the strength of this country. 436 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: I'm not sure I know any or let's say, many 437 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: Foundation executives who speak as much about the original donor 438 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: and with as much honor. I heard you give a 439 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: speech an anchorage. The entire speech was about the Bradley Brothers. 440 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 2: How many foundations in this country have strayed. I mean, 441 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,479 Speaker 2: this isn't my money, it isn't our money, It's their money. 442 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 2: They're the ones that created it. We are stewards for 443 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 2: a brief period of time trying to do what these 444 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 2: two men would have wanted to do in the way 445 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 2: they would have wanted to do it. That this is 446 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 2: our job. And you know, you look at the Ford 447 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 2: Foundation and many many others if strayed terribly, you know, 448 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 2: almost as if there's a an entitlement to do whatever 449 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 2: they want with money that wasn't created by them. It's wrong. 450 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 2: It's a breach of duty. 451 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: It is it's a violation. There's almost a theft to it, 452 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: if not the legal categor theft, the moral category of theft, 453 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: especially when they seem to go the opposite direction. Ford Foundation, 454 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: Rockefeller Foundation. Yes, so if you have an entrepreneur who 455 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 1: creates a great fortune, then the inheritors use it to 456 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 1: attack capitalism. I'm thinking about Hewlett Foundation and I noticed 457 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: recently they fund socialism and they're also funding American Compass, 458 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: which is a right wing critiquer of capitalism. Except yeah, 459 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: that tracks. You know, they're attacking the free market, but 460 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 1: the money was created. It's almost like they gettone for 461 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: the sins of the ancestor with the ancestors' money to 462 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: undermine the system that created that wealth to begin with. 463 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 2: Yes, it's interesting, as I've been in this job for 464 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 2: a while, every foundation has a different story. In our foundation, 465 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 2: there are no family members involved anymore whatsoever. There was 466 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 2: a grandson of Harry Bradley involved in until within the 467 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 2: last ten years, but now there's no one. On one hand, 468 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 2: that's too bad. I wish we knew people or had 469 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 2: people engaged with us that had a sense for what 470 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 2: these two men were like. On the other hand, we 471 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 2: don't have any family and there are none of those 472 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 2: problems that arise with different viewpoints in different generations. Has 473 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 2: just not been anything that the Bradley Foundation has ever 474 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 2: had to deal with, and that has enabled, in some ways, 475 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 2: I think, for this foundation to stay true to its 476 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 2: donors in every single way throughout its history, which is 477 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 2: now forty years. 478 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: Well, there's always going to be a gating function there's 479 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: always going to be a quality control function when it 480 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 1: comes to boards, and if it's not adherence to the philosophy, 481 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 1: any other metric or criterion dilutes the mission. Having the 482 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: same last name does not mean having the same philosophy. 483 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 2: Correct correct, And that's you know you talk about boards. 484 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 2: That's a tribute to our board of directors that whenever 485 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 2: there is an opening, whenever there's an opportunity for succession, 486 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 2: the Bradley Board has taken that process very very seriously. 487 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 2: Jean Scalia, a new member of our board, of course, 488 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 2: a Secretary of Labor during Trump's first term and the 489 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 2: son of Justice. Scalia told me once that it was 490 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 2: harder to become a member of the Bradley Foundation Board 491 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 2: of Directors than secretary of Labor and I took that 492 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 2: as a compliment. It's because our directors take it so 493 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 2: seriously and again that that is why this foundation is 494 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 2: stayed true. 495 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: Well, he did both well. He was very helpful in 496 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 1: helping fight against him. He was when he was at 497 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: the Department of Labor. Yes, so I want to go 498 00:32:53,080 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: back to this idea of the resurgent anty Semitism, hate groups, 499 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: the ideologies it help us distinguish between free association and 500 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: being careful about allies on the one hand, and quote 501 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,239 Speaker 1: cancel culture on the other, because sometimes it seems like 502 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: when somebody says I don't want to associate with you, 503 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: you don't represent me, somebody else comes along and says 504 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: you've canceled them. So what how would you distinguish those things? 505 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: How would you answer the answer the charge that saying 506 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 1: there's no room for Nazis or neo Nazis or anti Semites? 507 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 2: What was it? 508 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:43,479 Speaker 1: How is that not cancel culture? 509 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,120 Speaker 2: There are certain lines to me that that are just 510 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 2: not acceptable. Being a racist, being a big at, being 511 00:33:55,240 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 2: an anti Semite is just not right. It's not moral. 512 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 2: It has nothing to do with cancelation. It's it's a 513 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 2: viewpoint that is simply not acceptable to me. The cancelation 514 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 2: that that we've seen on college campuses, for instance, is 515 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,719 Speaker 2: when a student stands up and says, I've got conservative 516 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 2: beliefs and I believe in free markets, and you know 517 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 2: that that person is ostracized. That that's wrong. That kind 518 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:36,720 Speaker 2: of cancelation is dead dead wrong. But to say someone 519 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 2: with abhorrent views is being canceled, and therefore it's a 520 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 2: bad thing to criticize or to not associate with someone 521 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 2: like that. It is very different and a pretty clear distinction. 522 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:57,319 Speaker 2: To me, I'm not troubled by that at all. I 523 00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 2: don't want anything to do with Nick Flente's. 524 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,840 Speaker 1: It's pretty clear to me as well. So kind of 525 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 1: extending your analogy. If somebody stands up on a college 526 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: campus and says I'm a conservative Republican and they get 527 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 1: kicked out of the college, that's cancel culture. If someone 528 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,840 Speaker 1: stands up on a college campus and goes and joined 529 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: and says I'm a conservative Republican and I want to 530 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 1: join the campus Democrat Society or the campus Socialist society, 531 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: that society would say, well, you don't share our beliefs, 532 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 1: so go have a Republican club, right, That's not cancel culture. 533 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,239 Speaker 1: So for us to say to Nick Fuentes, go have 534 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 1: a Nazi club, see how well you can grow, is 535 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 1: not cancel call. We're not saying takeaway is spotify account 536 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 1: or kick them off Twitter. We're saying, don't have a 537 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:53,799 Speaker 1: parasitical relationship with the conservative movement, that you actually do 538 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:55,240 Speaker 1: not share the values. 539 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 2: Of correct I think you've stated it well. 540 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 1: Well, that happens once in a while. So, and I 541 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,720 Speaker 1: think that also means I'm just going to speak for myself. 542 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 1: You can decide whether to jump in here that if 543 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,959 Speaker 1: we're going to have conversations with those people, we can't. 544 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,839 Speaker 1: We can't, we don't. Nothing says we have to. Those 545 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 1: conversations need to be pretty tough conversations. 546 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 2: Well, I think they do. They have to be challenging conversations. 547 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 2: I don't think I'm saying you can't have a conversation, 548 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 2: but but I but to just let these ideas float 549 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 2: out there without challenge, I think is wrong. I think 550 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:52,359 Speaker 2: you have an obligation to do that. Again, I don't 551 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,880 Speaker 2: want those beliefs to have anything to do with you know, 552 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 2: what we call the conservative movement. It's not part of us, 553 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 2: it's not part of what we stand for. 554 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:02,319 Speaker 3: And I. 555 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:04,440 Speaker 2: No interest. 556 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's right. I think you can talk 557 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:12,040 Speaker 1: to anybody. I mean, I've been invited to speak to 558 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 1: some very liberal groups. I would absolutely talk to a 559 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: group of communists. If the local college Communist communes said, hey, Jerry, 560 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,400 Speaker 1: come down and talk about free market economics, I would. 561 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: And I would talk to the Nazis too. Neither of 562 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:30,360 Speaker 1: them are making invitations but I would, but I wouldn't 563 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,319 Speaker 1: cuddle up to them, or I wouldn't pretend there's no 564 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: difference so that I could get a bigger Twitter audience 565 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,960 Speaker 1: or more people listening to my podcast. It seems to 566 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: me that if you're talking to them and you're not 567 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 1: challenging them, then you're platforming them, which is not really dialogue. 568 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,279 Speaker 1: It's really the instrument instrumentalization of the liberalists for your 569 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 1: own personal gain, and. 570 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 2: We certainly should not be platforming people with those ideas. 571 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well, I take you know what you're saying. 572 00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 1: We are in a tough spot right now, and yet 573 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,760 Speaker 1: I don't I find myself optimistic. 574 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 2: There is so much to be optimistic about. There are 575 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 2: so many great things about this country. There's so many 576 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 2: great things that go on every single day. There's so 577 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 2: much kindness and generosity. We have so much to celebrate 578 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,759 Speaker 2: as we approach the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of 579 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 2: the declaration of independence. You know, we in this country 580 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:36,319 Speaker 2: have done an incredible job of creating opportunity, and it's 581 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:41,759 Speaker 2: still a place where people go to and to to 582 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:47,879 Speaker 2: get educated, to start a business, to deal with illnesses, 583 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 2: that this is the place where people come and there's 584 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:55,360 Speaker 2: a reason for that, and we've just got to do 585 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,800 Speaker 2: more of celebrating what it is to be an American. 586 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 2: And maybe next year is a great opportunity to do 587 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:05,759 Speaker 2: a bit more of that, I hope. 588 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,320 Speaker 1: So you know, it says in Ecclesiastes there's a time 589 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:11,239 Speaker 1: for war and a time for peace. There's a time 590 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 1: for tearing down, and there's a time for building up. 591 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:17,879 Speaker 1: And we've been through a time of tearing down, and 592 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: actually a pretty good one. I mean, what we saw 593 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:28,920 Speaker 1: with the Biden administration cancel culture, debanking people, deplatforming people, 594 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,759 Speaker 1: shutting down civil society in an incredibly destructive way. In 595 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 1: response to the COVID epidemic, tearing down was required. Do 596 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:41,759 Speaker 1: you agree with that? 597 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:42,799 Speaker 3: Yes? 598 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:43,200 Speaker 2: I do. 599 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 1: And I'm going to blame maybe maybe I'm just being 600 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,480 Speaker 1: too easy on my brother's here. I'm going to blame 601 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:54,040 Speaker 1: some of the illiberalism of conservatives to a reaction to 602 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:56,960 Speaker 1: the illiberalism of the kind of global elite who came 603 00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,440 Speaker 1: in and said your church doesn't matter. Strip clubs can 604 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,719 Speaker 1: be open, liquor stores can be open, churches have in, 605 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,480 Speaker 1: schools have to shut down, And so we're kind of 606 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:11,359 Speaker 1: in a reaction mode against against that, and so there's 607 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,920 Speaker 1: a there was a failure of the ruling class what 608 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 1: my friend, the late Angela Codavila would call the called 609 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:17,560 Speaker 1: the ruling class. 610 00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 3: But I mean, we'll look back at COVID is one 611 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 3: of the most disastrous UH times ever in terms of 612 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:28,480 Speaker 3: our approach to decision making. 613 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:34,759 Speaker 2: It really was. You know, I get the uncertainty in 614 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 2: those first few weeks, but then it became clear. And 615 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:43,880 Speaker 2: what we've done to children through school closures, right, what 616 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,400 Speaker 2: we did to civil society through a closure of churches 617 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:51,120 Speaker 2: and things like that is is going to take decades 618 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:55,880 Speaker 2: to undo. Some of these kids will never recover, and 619 00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:59,880 Speaker 2: that's tragedy. But I hope there's some lessons in that. 620 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,440 Speaker 1: Well I think they are. So there's good lessons and 621 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 1: bad lessons. 622 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:04,439 Speaker 2: Right. 623 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 1: The bad lesson is, when we're in charge, will be 624 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:09,920 Speaker 1: the good kind of authoritarians. 625 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:10,279 Speaker 2: Right. 626 00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:15,360 Speaker 1: The good lesson is, ah, nobody is smart enough to 627 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:19,680 Speaker 1: run everybody else's life, and you need to stay with freedom. 628 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,440 Speaker 1: So maybe now with the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary, 629 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,120 Speaker 1: that's a little providential nod towards the pivot from tear 630 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 1: down to build up. 631 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:30,160 Speaker 2: What do you think, Yeah, I think so, I think so. 632 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:32,600 Speaker 2: I mean, there's a great movement across the country to 633 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:41,759 Speaker 2: refocus on civics, to talk about I took Civics in 634 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,399 Speaker 2: ninth or tenth grade. You probably did. Two kids aren't 635 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:48,040 Speaker 2: taking that anymore? Learning about your government, learning about separation 636 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:52,799 Speaker 2: of powers, learning about freedom of speech, learning about free 637 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:58,680 Speaker 2: enterprise and entrepreneurial spirit and so forth. There's a rebirth 638 00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,360 Speaker 2: of that going on around thee and that too, is 639 00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:07,600 Speaker 2: great and needed. And this is a long game. I've 640 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,000 Speaker 2: learned that since coming to the Bradley Foundation that the 641 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,120 Speaker 2: work we do is very different than the work that 642 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:17,520 Speaker 2: I was doing a Honeywell, for instance, as a corporate 643 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:22,840 Speaker 2: guy or as a lawyer. This is a long game. 644 00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:28,560 Speaker 2: Doesn't happen overnight. But you just got to keep working 645 00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,320 Speaker 2: at it. And you've got to find great people to 646 00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,640 Speaker 2: do this work. You know, and we give away the money, 647 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,799 Speaker 2: but the real work is being done by our grantees. 648 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:44,080 Speaker 2: Our challenge is to find outstanding people running these various organizations, 649 00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,719 Speaker 2: whether it's think tanks or whether it's someone in the 650 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:51,399 Speaker 2: central city of Milwaukee who's willing, who thinks about their 651 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,279 Speaker 2: job all day long, is not an eight to five 652 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:58,400 Speaker 2: kind of person and wants to make a difference. And 653 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:02,920 Speaker 2: that's our challenge, is philanthropist, is to find those people, 654 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:07,239 Speaker 2: to fund those people, and for as long as they've 655 00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:11,560 Speaker 2: got that mentality, and if they do, boy, the difference 656 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:12,760 Speaker 2: they can make is enormous. 657 00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:15,759 Speaker 1: There's a little powerbule in the Gospels. The Kingdom of 658 00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,000 Speaker 1: God is like kind of like a seed that's in 659 00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,840 Speaker 1: the ground and the roots grow and you can't see 660 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:28,719 Speaker 1: it until it bursts out. You've been funding root systems 661 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,319 Speaker 1: for decades and they're starting to burst out, and that 662 00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,879 Speaker 1: is a beautiful thing and something to be optimistic about. 663 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:42,680 Speaker 2: Absolutely. I feel so fortunate every day to be an American, 664 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,880 Speaker 2: notwithstanding all our problems, all the ankst that's going on 665 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,959 Speaker 2: right now, I wouldn't want to be from anywhere else. 666 00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,520 Speaker 2: And me too. I got lucky. 667 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:52,319 Speaker 1: You got lucky. 668 00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:55,080 Speaker 2: Good for us, right. 669 00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,759 Speaker 1: I mean, there's what eight billion people on planet Earth 670 00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,080 Speaker 1: and there's three hundred million Americans, and we live in 671 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:04,200 Speaker 1: the most prosperous generation in human history. And I got 672 00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:07,480 Speaker 1: to tell you, I get a little weepy sometimes, and 673 00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,439 Speaker 1: part of it is the entrepreneurial explosion. I mean, what's 674 00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,879 Speaker 1: going on with blockchain, what's going on with robotics, what's 675 00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,759 Speaker 1: going on with AI, what's going on with biopharmaceuticals. This 676 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:22,320 Speaker 1: is like a civilizational The entrepreneurs are doing a great job, 677 00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:27,319 Speaker 1: and I'm pretty confident about another American century. And it's 678 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,319 Speaker 1: mostly because of them and the little platoons. 679 00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,799 Speaker 2: I agree, Yeah, you know, I mean, this technology boom 680 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:38,440 Speaker 2: is amazing. What we're able to do today that we 681 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,640 Speaker 2: couldn't do twenty years ago is astounding. To some extent, 682 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:48,880 Speaker 2: technology has been a problem, perhaps with civil society. Social media. 683 00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:54,920 Speaker 2: Social grew up with this, Yes, yes, and I'm glad 684 00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:58,080 Speaker 2: to see school system saying you got to catch your 685 00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:04,120 Speaker 2: phone out of the classroom. Great, and those little phones 686 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:08,680 Speaker 2: are wonderful, but they've been a problem too, and somehow 687 00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,399 Speaker 2: we've got to strike that balance. We will, we. 688 00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:16,480 Speaker 1: Will, and we're making progress there. With technology just magnifies 689 00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:19,960 Speaker 1: who we are. And you're right, all the technology, it 690 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,560 Speaker 1: all creates a challenge, but so and we've had those 691 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,799 Speaker 1: challenges in the past and we've overcome them. All right. 692 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,040 Speaker 1: You have been very generous with your time. Anything else 693 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,560 Speaker 1: you want to leave us with, I always I always 694 00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:32,920 Speaker 1: had interviews the same way. Is there anything that I 695 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:34,160 Speaker 1: didn't ask you about? 696 00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:39,520 Speaker 2: Yes, be optimistic, Celebrate America. Go to your neighborhood black party, 697 00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:47,759 Speaker 2: join the softball team, go to church on Sunday. Celebrate 698 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,360 Speaker 2: those things that we are uniquely able to do in 699 00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,359 Speaker 2: this country, and if we all do our part, even 700 00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,360 Speaker 2: in a little small way, will be a better place. 701 00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:01,920 Speaker 1: Trust in Providence. Yes, it has been kind to America 702 00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:05,680 Speaker 1: thus far. Rick Graber from the Bradley Foundation, thanks for 703 00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:07,200 Speaker 1: your work and thanks for being with us again. 704 00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:10,160 Speaker 2: Thanks Jery enjoying it so did I. 705 00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,160 Speaker 1: I'm Jerry Boy. Thanks for joining us for this edition 706 00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:13,240 Speaker 1: of Meeting of Minds.