WEBVTT - 484 Witchcraft Disguised as Prayer- Part 1 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:03.520 Life Audio. 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:08.600 Come to the Praying Christian Women podcast. I am Alana 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:09.399 here with Jamie. 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:09.959 How are you. 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:11.319 I'm doing great. 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:18.279 I am excited and terrified because you chose a topic 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:20.640 for us that I have no idea where we're going, 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:23.840 but I know it's going to be really fascinating and 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:28.880 I think that it is absolutely worth discussing. And to 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:31.640 be fair, I think this is a topic that a 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:35.320 lot of Christian podcasters would not be willing to touch. 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:38.599 So let's talk about witchcraft. 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:41.400 Yeah, so I'm going to give you background on kind 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:44.239 of where this came from. So I heard someone and 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:48.000 I don't remember where, don't remember what the context was, 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:52.080 but it stuck with me. Someone said, some kinds of 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:55.880 prayer and prayer in air quotes, some kinds of prayer 0:00:56.240 --> 0:01:01.120 can actually be a form of witchcraft, meaning Christians who 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:04.759 are doing certain types of prayer in air quotes. It's 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:10.040 witchcraft masquerading as prayer, and it's infiltrated the Christian community. 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:14.759 And so that my question started there of Okay, can 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:20.479 prayer in a Christian context be witchcraft in disguise? And 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:23.840 if so, absolutely, we want to know, and we want 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:26.240 to know why and how and how to identify it 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:27.640 and how not to do it right. 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:29.520 So that's kind of where that came from. 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:32.800 That No, it's going to be really fascinating, and I 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:35.520 am excited because I don't. I sort of made you 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:37.760 stop telling me your thoughts where this episode was going 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:40.160 to go because I wanted to experience it fresh. 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:43.119 But I am also really. 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:45.000 Intrigued, and I have been for a very long time 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:52.240 at the sociological history of people being named, which is, so, 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:57.320 let's the practice of like evil spells or demonic worship 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:02.200 or things that are spiritually uns safe and sinful. But 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:07.800 this idea that a woman who knew how to make 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:11.799 a tea that could make somebody feel better after having 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:15.320 a miscarriage might get killed because people claim she was 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:20.160 a witch. Right, I am really intrigued at that interspection, 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:26.080 because I believe that the religious powers that were and 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:32.920 maybe be sometimes we're afraid of women, specifically who had 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:41.280 unorthodox interpretations of scripture or philosophies on life, And what 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:43.640 better way to get rid of them than to convince 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:48.200 a mob they're a witch and burnament mistake. So we're 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:50.239 going to be We're going to be getting into some 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:52.640 really interesting territory I am sure. 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:55.960 Well, just to kind of give an overview of what 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:58.799 we're talking about, because when I hear the word witchcraft, 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:01.200 the first thing that comes to my mind is, you know, 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:06.160 double double toil and trouble, you know, cald and burn whatever, 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:10.080 fire burn and cauldron bubble, like you know, women standing 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:14.520 around with pointy hats over potions and stuff. But in 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:20.399 the biblical worldview that we're reading from, witchcraft wasn't magic necessarily. 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:23.520 I mean, it entailed elements of that, but it was 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:28.679 really at its core a rebellion against God's authority and 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:32.480 trying to There are a few different things that it entailed, 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:37.480 like trying to control outcomes spiritually or in some way 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:43.440 manipulating outcomes with your human abilities, or by tapping into 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:49.720 darker spiritual forces instead of trusting God. Seeking hidden knowledge. 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:54.280 That was another thing, which involved wanting to know the future, 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:57.800 wanting to know secret knowledge that was forbidden by God, 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:05.560 appealing to other spirit beings so that would entail spirits, demons, 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:11.280 the dead, false gods, the rulers and principalities that are 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:17.520 not God, and so all of those things. Divination, which 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:21.080 is very interesting because I always think of like divination 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:25.240 in the carnal sense is, you know, like reading tea 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:29.960 leaves stuff like that, but also trying to predict or 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:34.640 uncover the future with different supernatural means like pagan casting 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:39.080 of lots, reading omens or scigns, astrology like practices. And 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:42.320 this is kind of like where we get the command 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:44.880 in Exodus twenty to eighteen, which says you may not 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:48.920 permit a sorceress to live. So you know, these are 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:52.000 all different ways that can kind of be like lumped 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:57.080 into that witchcraft category. And so we're not talking about 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:02.320 prayers that are like casting bells necessarily. We're talking about 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:06.440 using prayer as a means of basically taking a shortcut 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:11.880 to a road that God has not intended us to shortcut. 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:15.320 And huh so, yeah, so that's just kind of a 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:19.560 basic overview, and there are different categories of witchcraft that 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:22.120 kind of fall into those, but we can talk about 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:24.880 that too. But you've got your mediums, you've got spiritists, 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:27.920 you've got necromancers, idolators. 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:32.760 So yeah, yeah, Well I didn't come up with it 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:35.200 just her fun question because I wasn't exactly sure where 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:37.840 we're going with this, but I do have a joke. 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:40.719 Are you ready for it. Yes, you might have heard 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:42.240 this one. I think it's hilarious. 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:46.240 And my child did me a disservice because she gave 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:48.840 me like a hearty belly laugh when I told it 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:52.200 to him, So I think it's probably like a lot 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:55.719 funnier than it is. Okay. A woman stannstairs in the 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:58.560 living room and she shouts up to her husband and 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:02.320 she says, Honey, do you ever get like a stabbing 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:05.760 pain right at the base of your skull, like somebody's 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:08.360 got a voodoo doll of you and they're just jabbing 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:12.480 it with needles And he shouts down no, And then 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:14.760 in like a half a minute later, she calls up, 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:16.120 what about now? 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:21.960 Okay, good you. I think you gave me at least 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:22.360 that time. 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:26.600 That's a good one. I think that's pretty funny. 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:31.039 Yeah. Well, before we dive deeper in, could you open 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:32.000 this up in some prayer. 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:37.200 Yes, God, we just pray that you would be present 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:39.880 today during this conversation. We pray that you would open 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:41.560 our eyes, that you would help us to just be 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:46.520 open minded and not not afraid to dive into this 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:51.440 kind of unorthodox topic, and just help us to be 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:55.480 able to pray with more purity and more single heartedness 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:57.839 as a result of thinking about these things. And we 0:06:57.920 --> 0:06:59.760 just pray that you would open our eyes to anyways 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:02.479 that we are falling into traps of praying in ways 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:06.000 that are not healthy and not scriptural and biblical and 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:06.960 not glorifying to you. 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:07.760 Amen. 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:08.680 Amen. 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:11.080 So I did think of it just for fun. Were 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:13.680 there any witches in movies or anything that you were 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:15.840 super scared of growing up? Oh? 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:18.360 Yeah, the Wizard of Oz, it was the witch and 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:21.320 the monkey beats then totally freaked me out as a. 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:23.960 She she was a scary witch. Have you seen the clip? 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:29.360 Mister Rogers invited the actress on into his home because 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:32.640 so many kids were scared of her that he invited 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:36.040 her to come dressed as herself and like, hey, look, 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:37.680 I'm a nice woman, and I. 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:39.760 Put on a costume. 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:42.800 And then she put on her her costume and gave 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:45.720 the little laugh, and it helped kids to realize, oh, 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:49.920 like she's she herself is not evil, She's just pretending 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:52.760 to be. What's really cute about the Wizard of Oz 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.800 is when my kids were little, our Youngoss maybe around 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:59.440 three or four, and so he could follow the story 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:01.920 kind of you know, like enough where he recognized the 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:05.240 characters but didn't like he couldn't tell you, you know, beginning, 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:08.040 middle and end and all of that. He called the 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:11.760 witch green guy, and he didn't realize it was a woman. 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:14.520 And I think it's adorable because I think there was 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:18.520 something like very cute in his worldview, that like only 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:20.800 men could be that mean and scary. 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:23.320 So I thought it was pretty cute. 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:26.040 That is cute green She was green guy. 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:27.600 That is too funny. 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:32.040 I was the most scared of the witches from Snow 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:34.720 White and Sleeping Beauty, And I was gonna really tell 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:38.120 you which was more, probably Sleeping Beauty because she turns 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:39.480 into the dragon, right. 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:43.840 I don't remember, but I just know the one with 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:45.680 the apple that was Sleeping Beauty. 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:46.720 That was Sleeping Beauty. 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:49.680 No ye, snow white, white Apple. 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:52.760 And she is scary when she turns into the old woman. 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:56.160 She's scary. The old woman part was scary for me. 0:08:56.760 --> 0:09:00.000 Yeah, I think we hit on like everybody in our age, 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:02.480 rackets three scares witches. 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:05.000 Most like I would agree. 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:11.240 So let's start with what we absolutely fundamentally know to 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:15.600 be wrong and sinful. And you already labeled some of it, 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:18.720 but I want to make it super clear. So anything 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:24.000 that's communicating with the dead or supernatural beings that are 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:26.240 not God the Father, God the Son, and God the 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:30.880 Holy Spirit. I think that in my brain, those are 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:35.160 like the like Tebya and Fiddler on the Roof. There 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:38.800 is no other hand, right, Like, there is no way 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:41.040 to look at the Bible. 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:42.320 And say, oh, but what about this. 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:45.840 So if it has anything to do with conjuring up 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:50.200 the dead or praying to a spiritual thing that is 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:51.480 not spirit. 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:55.400 Guide, or relying on the spirit guide for information, I 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:59.040 would include praying to angels, which is something that has 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:02.720 crept into the church and people think that's cool and 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:06.200 that you know, I mean, do I believe that angels 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:06.560 are real? 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:07.600 Absolutely do. 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:10.800 I believe that we have guardian angels, probably based on 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:14.200 what we read in scripture, and that they're everywhere doing 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:17.600 God's bidding and they love us and they minister to us. 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:21.640 But it is sinful to pray to angels. And I 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:23.840 think we need to make that really clear because I 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:27.600 think of all of the ways that we could stray 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:30.920 into the realm of what we would now consider witchcraft, 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:32.600 I think praying. 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:33.480 To angels would be in that. 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:38.960 Yeah, because it feels innocuous on a level, most of 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:42.520 us would say that if you're saying a prayer to 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:45.040 the devil, then you're probably not doing something that a 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:50.760 Christian should condone, right, But yeah, basically, if you are 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:56.280 praying to an angel or a faint or your dead 0:10:56.320 --> 0:11:01.000 grandmother who was an amazing prayer warrior and of Jesus, 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:06.960 like I believe that those things are very forbidden in Scripture. 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:22.960 At the basic level of the definition of trying to 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:26.720 control outcomes spiritually, I think a lot of things fall 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:28.679 under that, and I think. 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:32.000 That's what prayer is, though, so I need to hear 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:33.440 your definition better. 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:40.240 I'm sorry, So trying to control outcomes spiritually apart from God, 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:46.760 so it can get probably gray in some areas. But 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:50.840 if you're if you're trying to control an outcome apart 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:56.320 from God, so I would put manifesting in its pure 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:00.760 detached from God for sure. If you're I'm just basically 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:06.640 trying to manifest something without any regard to God's power, 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:09.120 you know what, I think what I'm going to do 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:11.520 is back up and I'm going to say that if 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:18.280 you are viewing prayer as a way to wield power 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:23.920 yourself instead of as a way to open the floodgates 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:27.320 of God's power coming into earth to bring His kingdom 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:28.640 come and as will be done on earth as it 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:33.880 is in heaven, or even approaching God to have his 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:37.480 power intervene in a way that you are praying and 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:41.000 petitioning and begging and knocking down the door. Yes, you're 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:44.200 trying to control an outcome because you want something, But 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:48.040 if you're approaching it from if I just muster up 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:53.440 enough within myself to manifest this as opposed to if 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:56.520 I just knock and seek and keep on praying, then 0:12:56.720 --> 0:12:59.760 maybe God, will you know, make this happen. 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:02.080 Do you see the difference that I'm. 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:05.040 I do see the difference I do, And I'm not 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:08.200 sure I agree with you? Okay, I want you have 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:12.040 to say, yeah, I think that this idea that I 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:17.480 mentioned at the beginning of the burning of witches, and 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:20.760 let's let's use it as witches with a small w 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:28.000 of basically just a woman with spiritual independence outside of 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:32.960 the religious powers of her day. I feel like the 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:37.360 devil doesn't want those kind of women, and the power 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:41.400 hungry church didn't want that kind of women. And I 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:47.359 think that what you're describing as the fear of being 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:52.440 a quote witch and in certain cases be used to 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:53.720 keep us praying small. 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:56.000 Yes, I definitely see that. 0:13:56.679 --> 0:14:01.839 I still think though, that if you're trying to control 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:08.480 things through your power and not God, not God's power, 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:11.320 it's I think that's why I was saying, I'm going 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:13.080 to back it up. I think I'm backing it up 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:17.520 to your intention and who you're because I see what 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:21.280 you're saying, and you're right that idea has in my 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:27.040 life paralyzed me because I feel like, well, first I 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:29.080 have to know what God wants before I can pray 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:32.720 with power. Yeah, and that is not That's not what 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:34.640 I'm talking about though, for sure, And I'm glad you 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:37.240 brought that up, because that's not what I definitely don't 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:41.720 think that's true. I think it is when we believe 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:45.680 that we control our own destiny by mustering up enough 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:49.320 and we sort of tag God onto it, that's when 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:50.400 it becomes sinful. 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:51.880 Is that a better way to say it. 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:55.840 That's I can seed to all of that. And I 0:14:55.920 --> 0:15:02.800 do feel like these types of mine or world views, 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:05.320 is what I'm trying to say, have crept into the 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:09.840 church and into our theology and into our prayer lives. 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:15.880 I think, however, some people, for the sake of theological purity, 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:17.960 are going to throw out too many babies with too 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.600 much bathbone it. And you've got to be so discerning 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:23.480 to know. Like, so, what I would hate is for 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:27.560 somebody to listen to this and all of a sudden 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:30.080 and be like, oh, no, I've been praying way too boldly. 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:33.320 God must be so mad at me. I need to 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:35.680 get back into my humble little corner. I need to 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:36.720 stay in my lane. 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:40.200 No, And I don't, yeah, definitely don't want that to happen. 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:43.640 What would you say is the I mean, I would 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:47.080 say the litmus test is who do you attribute power to? 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:50.520 Yes, are you praying to God? Or are you praying 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:54.240 to divine power within yourself? Or are you praying to 0:15:55.040 --> 0:16:02.200 either a heavenly or evil or deceased entity. And if 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:05.720 it's answer is not God, then you're doing it wrong well. 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:07.840 And I think one of the ways that kind of 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:12.600 illustrates what I'm thinking of is the like power of 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:20.040 words movement within certain Christian denominations and segments can get 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:24.040 into this where it puts the emphasis on the words 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:30.200 alone yes and tax got on as an afterthought, and 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:35.040 it's like, you control your destiny by saying these words. 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:39.280 And again you words have power for sure, And I 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.960 think there is a fine line between, like we talked 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:46.720 about in our last episode, choosing your words carefully, making 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:49.120 sure that you're speaking life, that you're you know, if 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:51.120 you're going to have a self fulfilling prophecy, let it 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:55.600 be a good one and not a limiting one for sure. 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:59.080 But I think when we put the focus on the 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:03.960 words above and beyond God, then. 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:05.520 But it's tough. 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:09.359 It's tough because it's tough not to abuse it, and 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:13.479 it's tough not to be so afraid of words and 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:15.919 the power of words that God tells us, you know, 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:19.359 like as a man speaks, so he is right and 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:23.159 so's there's a balancing act to be had, and I 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:26.919 think we have to be careful not to overdo either side. 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:28.160 Absolutely. 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:31.440 Yeah, So let's talk about the dangers of both extremes 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:34.560 so that people can identify which extremely you're more likely 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:38.240 to fall into if you resonate with the picture of 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:42.960 somebody shaming you, Like if you were to pray as 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:47.800 boldly as you can imagine, and you go to people 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:51.440 or yourself or God wagging fingers and saying who do 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:55.639 you think you are? Then you probably don't need to 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:59.560 worry about airing on the side of dabbling in witchcraft, 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.800 needs to err on the side of growing more faith 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:09.080 and claiming what truly is yours in Christ. If you 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:14.800 lean the other way and to the point where everything 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:19.360 you do has fear tacked onto it, because oh, if 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:23.439 I say this one thing, then you know God's going 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:27.240 to curse me, Or you know, I forgot to say 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:30.280 bless you to my nephew and now the devil's going 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:33.480 to steal his soul. Right, if you're living in fear 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:36.400 of all of this, and I think that's an indication 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:40.359 you've gotten to the way other extreme or and this 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:42.920 is the only one that I think would be hardest 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:45.760 for people to recognize in themselves, and that is if 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:51.400 it's only about you and your pride, because I can 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:56.080 definitely picture who you're talking about. And no, I don't 0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:58.080 have like an individual in mind, but I can picture 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:02.640 the personality of somebody who will pray and who will 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:06.760 sound like a genuine faith filled, spirit filled prayer warrior, 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:12.760 but their focuses on themselves. So I think that maybe 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:16.199 a good litmus test to know if you're erring in 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:19.520 that extreme. It's almost like, if this prayer that you're 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:23.960 boldly praying doesn't come true, what happens in your brain? 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:27.560 And if it's a surrender, if it's oh, I guess 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:30.720 God had something even better in store, Okay, that's an 0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:33.000 indication that you're still giving God the glory even if 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:36.720 it's disappointment. If it's like, oh, wow, I really wanted 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:41.080 this to happen. I will surrender to God's will, but man, 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:45.880 this sucks, Okay, that shows humility. If it's oh, no, 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:48.040 I'm gonna look so bad because I prayed for this 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:51.040 thing and it didn't come true. Or if it's God, 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:54.160 that's not fair because I believed in this. I think 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:57.800 those are the mindsets that would show that you are 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:01.080 praying in human power, not divine power. 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:02.240 Yeah. 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:05.520 I can also see putting others on a pedestal as 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:09.960 being a form of witchcraft in idolatry. When let's say 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:14.280 you have someone that you consider a mentor and I 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:17.800 actually got into like kind of crossing the line on this, 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:20.960 I would say where I I almost viewed this person 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:26.440 as kind of like my shortcut to God, like. 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:26.760 Like I know what you're talking about. 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:32.879 As a and and this person was very insightful and perceptive, 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:36.679 and when she prayed over me, I took it as 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:40.320 gospel and I almost went to her like a medium. 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:43.359 And I don't mean that in a literal sense, but 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:46.400 what I mean is I almost was like, this person 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:50.320 is speaking the word of God over me, and I 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:53.080 really put her on a pedestal and went to her 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:56.760 for it was almost like like, Okay, I got to 0:20:56.760 --> 0:20:59.879 go to this person to hear from God, and that 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:04.560 it's dangerous. That's basically going to someone as a medium 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:07.600 between you and God. And we don't have that Jesus 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:09.679 as our high priest, and you know, we have the 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:13.040 Holy Spirit. Not to say again that you want to 0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:15.439 take it too far and not have mentors, not have 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:19.960 people that you feel like are mature and have a good, 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:24.000 good relationship with God and speak words of truth in life. 0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:27.920 But it's where is your heart is that person? Are 0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:30.359 you feeling like you have to go through that person 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:32.119 to get to God or not? 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:34.600 And I think I think fear. 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:38.600 It can, and I think fear can be a pretty 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:41.920 good litmus test. It's just because on the one hand, yeah, 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:44.000 I have mentors, and even now, if I'm about to 0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:46.600 make a big decision, I'd be like, I would love 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:49.320 to chat with Becca about this, because I know she's 0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:52.800 going to ask me the right questions to help me 0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:56.879 to see clearly there's a difference between that, and so 0:21:56.920 --> 0:21:59.720 then it would actually be foolish for me. If God 0:21:59.840 --> 0:22:01.840 is given me a person like that in my life, 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:04.920 it would not be the smartest for me to make 0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:08.159 a big decision if I had the opportunity to not, 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:10.040 you know, it would be foolish me to say, well, 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:12.439 I can't ask Beck about this because I don't want to. 0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:16.240 I don't want to rely too much on her for 0:22:16.359 --> 0:22:19.280 spiritual guidance. This has to be between God and me. 0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:22.919 On the other hand, I think where you know that 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:27.600 it's gone too far is if it becomes fear based, 0:22:27.960 --> 0:22:32.200 if it's if you're paralyzed. Oh sorry, Jamie, I don't 0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:33.840 know if I can record with you today or not 0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:37.880 because I haven't talked to Becca. That's a problem, right, 0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:43.800 or you know, yeah. I think really a huge litmus 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:45.920 test in so many parts of our spiritual life, and 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:51.560 especially in this one, is your primary motivation fear And 0:22:51.720 --> 0:22:56.280 if so, that's an indication that you're off balance. So 0:22:56.520 --> 0:22:59.639 if it's, I am so glad that God has given 0:22:59.800 --> 0:23:04.399 sobody with wisdom that I can talk to, and I 0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:08.040 believe that at times He will use this person to 0:23:09.080 --> 0:23:12.720 ask me questions and in that process I will discover 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:17.919 God's will. I think that's wonderful. I wouldn't worry about 0:23:18.520 --> 0:23:22.560 that from a spiritual standpoint. Where it becomes worrisome is 0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:27.639 if ooh, I'm so scared that if I don't pray 0:23:27.760 --> 0:23:30.640 before my meeting with Becca this afternoon, she might tell 0:23:30.680 --> 0:23:33.520 me something wrong and God's skinned, you know. Or oh, 0:23:34.000 --> 0:23:36.879 I actually can't make this decision because my next call 0:23:37.080 --> 0:23:40.080 with my coach isn't for three more weeks, so sorry, 0:23:40.280 --> 0:23:45.400 you know. Then it becomes fear based, and I can't 0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:48.280 think of much good that comes out of fear based 0:23:48.320 --> 0:23:49.840 decisions in the Christian life. 0:23:50.520 --> 0:23:50.840 Yeah. 0:23:50.840 --> 0:23:54.719 So the idea though, of being able to know the 0:23:54.760 --> 0:24:00.320 future and what some people might call divination or you know, 0:24:00.359 --> 0:24:03.399 there are bajillion words for it. I mean, in the Bible, 0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:09.439 there were prophets who would speak to future events. You 0:24:09.520 --> 0:24:12.840 and I have talked about sometimes like God giving you 0:24:12.920 --> 0:24:15.960